Some outlets suggest that the club are offering Watford between £40m and £50m (although some doubt has been expressed over whether that would be the entire transfer fee or the total package inclusive of wages) for the 21-year-old whom Marco Silva signed for the Hornets last year.
MailSport and Bleacher Report claim that the Blues "are close" to landing Richarlison whom Watford picked up from Fluminese for a little over £11m, with the latter claiming that the forward is already set for a medical.
Together with Sky Sports, Paul Joyce of The Times, widely considered to be among the most reliable journalists when it comes to Everton-related transfers, has also tweeted that the clubs are in negotiations.
Richarlison made a fast start to life in the Premier League, scoring five times in his first 12 starts before tailing off along with his team's results, a run of form that cost Silva his job at Vicarage Road.
21/7/18 Update Both the Liverpool Echo and the Daily Mail are reporting that a deal has now been agreed with Watford, the former claiming it is £35m plus add-ons up to £40m, the latter saying the fee is "up to £44m".
Both sources report that Richarlison will undergo a medical on Monday.
Reader Comments (390)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:45:10
2 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:49:10
He had a good six months, mostly under Silva, so his price increases £39 mil? With that rationale Lookman is worth the same, and he isn't (yet).
3 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:51:19
This money is obscene.
4 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:58:28
It really sounds like Silva, wants a proper wide player, so I just hope we get the right one, after being linked with loads of them?
5 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:12:19
Regardless of the mid - long term success of M+M, we are banking on Marco getting it right, by emulating to some extent the performance of Ranieri, or something similar. Do we think he can achieve it? Possibly. Do we believe he can do it? Some do,some don't. It is going to be a season with highs and lows.
If we do get Richarlson, Zaha, Yerry and Tierney (still available?)for example (dreamland we could still be in for a major surprise. I some big names at big prices do arrive, the cull will be quite extensive. I also think we are exaggerating the difficulty in moving players on. If a player knows he is not wanted and is not going to be playing, he will always look elsewhere, even if we have to subsidize his salary for it to happen.
6 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:16:15
7 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:17:23
8 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:23:03
9 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:25:29
The idea that we might have spent £100m on Sigurdsson and Richarlison is too depressing for words. £50m should buy you players who CL standard in their position.
10 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:35:01
11 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:37:08
12 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:37:59
13 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:39:55
Do we need yet another right footed winger for 40m?
This transfer will add to the unbalance in the squad. Buy a left back, centre back, centre mid and striker. Stay away from the wingers for a while.
There is something python esq about our transfer dealings over the last couple of years. We are stockpiling icing on the cake type players rather than strengthening the spine.
14 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:40:54
Still we each have our views, as ever interesting times at EFC. Who will be the first player in?
M&M have a plan, now lets see.
15 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:41:57
The rest of the country will be laughing at us if we give them £40m+ for a player who's had about half a dozen decent top level games in his career. Mind you, we signed up Silva based on much the same.
16 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:51:23
17 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:51:33
I know the ridiculous amount of money, Koeman frittered away mostly on flops, has nothing to do with Marco Silva, but I can't help but feel that history may be repeating itself here, if the amount is correct.
Any deal with Watford was bound to be difficult, but this surely takes the biscuit.
I had hoped when Brands and Silva were taking so long in the Transfer market, they would be unearthing unknown hidden gems, not following in the overspending trend that seems to be commonplace in the Prem of late.
18 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:54:10
Must be bullshit. Right?
19 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:54:59
20 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:55:59
21 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:57:04
Lets just prey we get the player who was playing for Silva at the start of last season.
22 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:00:45
23 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:01:07
He was brought in by Moshiri to eliminate the gross mismanagement of transfer funds by Koeman and Walsh. I simply cannot see him (or Everton) being taken to the cleaners again.
24 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:03:18
Liverpool got Salah for £37 million last summer we paid £45 million for Sigurdsson.
Liverpool get Shaqiri this summer for £13 million and we are paying potentially £50 million for Richarlison?
Looks like weve really learnt our lessons from last summer eh?
Blame Koeman and Walsh.
25 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:03:56
26 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:04:34
We probably couldn't attract Malcom or Lazano so we've reverted to last season's transfer strategy of overpaying on good, but not good enough for top 6 clubs players.
27 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:10:31
Can anyone else think of a comparable deal?? I can think of Man City buying Steve Daley for a British transfer record but that was years ago. People were scratching their heads at that deal. This one seems equally ridiculous.
28 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:14:38
29 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:15:21
30 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:13
Except for Pickford,we seem incapable of a real major coup.
I know window hasnt closed but FFS.
31 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:35
32 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:45
33 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:18:43
34 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:21:21
I'll wait to see what actually happens during next week!
Btw, did we promote our trusty contract-signing guy away from the official pictures we all trust?
35 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:23:41
I suppose where this deal is a little different to the deal for the likes of Bolasie is that Richarlison has potential, and Silva must think he's pretty special. However at this moment in time, Richarlison isn't as good as Malcom or Lazano, and the fees for them would have been less if we could have attracted them to sign. In all honesty, for me, Richarlison is at the same level as Lookman, and is he worth £50m??
36 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:24:03
37 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:26:56
38 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:34
39 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:45
40 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:45
41 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:39:57
Jeez lads get a grip ffs.
42 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:42:48
Everton-signing photos just won't be the same ever again...
43 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:43:33
44 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:46:12
If 67m for an ok goalie is the going rate then 50m for who the manager believes is a huge talent and young is the clubs choice (bearing in mind it will be heavily loaded on performance). Three years from now we could be saying what a bargain because we are buying the right talent at the right age according to the manager and the sporting director.
If only football was as easy as spuing stats out or requoting articles we'd all be managing top league clubs.
45 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:52:54
46 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:53:17
47 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:54:29
Here are some facts that make me want to 'spew'
38 premier league games
5 goals and 4 assists
Deal worth 50 Million
48 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:58:32
That would mean we can value Bolasie at 75 million and Lookman at a hundred million plus
It has to be a wind up. If we havent learnt anything from last preseason then we really are in the shit
49 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:00:14
50 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:01:41
51 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:04:15
52 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:06:20
The proof will be in the pudding, and we might all eventually think “thats not £50m wasted for sure!”
I hope, at least.
53 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:08:53
54 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:09:16
55 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:15:05
We moaned about paying for Tierney in a positon we need to fill We need a striker and a centre back so lets get another winger!
Theres something in this Richarlison shit as its all over the news
What a bloody wasre of money Will we never learn?
56 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:16:22
57 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:20:49
For that sort of money Id be looking an Insigne or the like.
58 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:25:09
59 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:26:33
Does anyone think athletic, fit footballers who can play to Davy Klaassen's or Niasse's level are somehow rare or hard to recruit? This is, like the Dutch, tulip time, utter madness, total folly.
How can it not be cheaper to spend £10M or £15M scouring the planet for someone of similar ability? How long can footballers keep pretending they are worth astronomically more year on year when there is no shortage of them, there never was, there never will be, and through global communication you can scout anybody anywhere?
Do any business minded folk have an answer why the market doesn't fix this?
60 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:27:30
No – I'm more concerned at what we can recoup for the dross... sorry, deadwood sitting on the bench; after all, we fully realise their worth to Everton and what it will cost to get rid.
It's all a game; we pay to watch the game, not pay the wages nor the transfer fees. If it all goes pear-shaped, others will pick up the bill... or should that be 'Bill'?
61 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:33:26
62 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:01
There is far too much negativity. Silva obviously knows he can get the Richarlison he had for 3-4 months. Nobody is the finished article at 21. He isn't Mbappe but Mbappe is a rare thing. Give this guy time and support and he will have us off our seats going forward.
Don't forget – we are used to seeing drab football. I don't think Silva will get his credit for this signing but he will when we see what he has in mind. Watford don't have a Digne or Sigurdsson playing along side Richarlison last season. Let the good times roll. 😃😃😃
63 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:16
I remember people raving about him and I didn't think that much. Exciting but very raw. I figured he was the classic flash in the pan.
If he signs then best of luck but... £50 Million???!!!!!
64 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:32
65 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:37:27
This is certifiably nuts.
Take the £50 million and pour the foundation to the new Bramley-Moore stadium!
The world's upside down. It really is. The world economy isn't this strong that a sport can be chucking numbers around like this!
It's all going to come crashing down again, a la 2008. And the next time it does, and it eventually will, sport will be affected as well, methinks.
Insanity. No way this is true at £50 mil!
66 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:41:19
Richarlson is average and not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination. He's on a par with Bolasie and won't take us forward.
Forget YouTube edited rubbish. This guy is not a top 4 signing.
67 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:42:26
68 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:47:48
Now we're down to £50 million for just one?
69 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:51:42
I know it's not my money but boy does £50M hurt.
Please somebody tell me this guy can play at centre-back!!
70 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:55:09
We are being fleeced big time again... Oh wait it's not my money, I shouldn't have an opinion.
71 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:56:16
72 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:56:27
73 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:57:25
Also, he is 21 and may turn into something very special, he has Premier League experience and at his age can only get better.
74 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:00:52
As for the fee, it's all daft money these days. It's only a problem If he turns out a poor player.
75 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:01:29
76 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:02:05
77 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:02:49
I think we need to back our manager; let's face it, he was instrumental in taking Richarlison from Flumenese to Watford so nobody knows him better.
Funny... 2 days ago, half of ToffeeWeb was going mad because we hadn't signed anybody, and now a deal looks a possibility, they are saying "No, we are paying too much."
78 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:08:31
Hell, I got on a "get behind Oumar" rant on another thread in part because I didn't think we'd sign a soul. And I like the guy. I digress...,
We need to trim the squad!
Surely Tosun, Sandro, and Klassen out the door - and maybe Williams too - if this is an accurate report??
Has to be some extra hush money in there for tapping up Marco!!!
I can't believe this. It's seriously nuts.
79 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:09:36
Firstly we upset Watford by trying to pinch their manager, then there season fell a part.
Secondly then after they sacked there manager we finally get him.
Thirdly now any player from Watford is going to cost us slightly more then it should do.
Richarlison was very tasty at the beginning movement on and off the ball a driving force for Watford, form dropped on so many players when the manager went.
Now the fee says upto 50million with all the add ons and there will be a lot of add ons so the real fee who knows 25/30 million perhaps.
80 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:20
7 assists if given 30 games ..maybe,
£25 million a year in wages for not much product
Meanwhile Jagielka and Baines shore up our defence, Tosun and Niasse are rotated for goals that rarely come.
Schneiderlin and Gana continue to create less than Zilch..welcome to the new season,weve learned nothing from last season.
Moshiri you need to get a grip..businessman. Ha
81 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:27
If you love your club, and there's zero doubt in my mind you love Everton dearly, you do need to concern yourself with the monetary health of the Club.
How many teams have filled for bankruptcy / administration while their fans sat back and said, "not my money."
This is crazy Andy. Crazy.
Hope the boy comes and scores 30+ goals.
82 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:31
83 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:11:19
Sorry chaps - now back to this guy Richarlson . . .
84 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:15:32
85 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:18:56
86 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:23:15
If Silver & Brands think he's worth £50M, then pay the fuckin' money!!!
The RS just paid £70M for a keeper and they're all jumping for joy – we buy a 21-year-old Brazilian winger and we do nothing but fuckin' moan!!!
87 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:24:36
88 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:24:46
Who the hell is sanctioning these signings at Everton Football Club? Since signing Lukaku in 2014, we have made just one good signing. Jordan Pickford.
These are dark days to be an Evertonian. This is never a £50m player in any market. Just as Sigurdsson was never a £52m player.
Who are we fighting to make this signing? Nobody. No other club in their right mind is even considering a bid like this for a player of this profile.
Its disgusting and its wrong.
There is no value at all in signing Premier League players. Why cant the club see that?
Why are our scouts not able to find the best players in the likes of France, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Portugal even Italy - where it is realistic for our club to have the financial muscle to turn their head and get them to sign
89 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:27:40
I have nothing against him, but that price tag even in this market is way too much. This has all the hallmarks of a RS signing aka Carroll etc. Half an ok season and costs the earth.
Keep your cash in your packet, and play lookman and the youth. Would take a medium season and better planning than knee jerk purchases which are overpriced.
90 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:28:29
It is the market. Supply and demand. A valuation is what someone, anyone is prepared to pay. That's where your premise may be flawed.
How long can footballers keep pretending they are worth astronomically more year on year...
Footballers aren't pretending; they (or at least their agents) know they are 'worth' the valuation because (see above) that's what someone is prepared to pay.
when there is no shortage of them, there never was, there never will be,
No shortage? I think we demonstrated last season there is a huge shortage of players who are actually worth it, and, even when you pay top dollar, no guarantees.
and through global communication you can scout anybody anywhere?
And how's that working out? We supposedly identify them, but they won't come to us because there are more attractive, higher-paying clubs out there.
And there we are, right back to supply and demand. What makes you think that does not apply here? How can you possibly believe there is no shortage of top quality players? Where the hell are they? There certainly weren't all that many on show in Russia...
91 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:29:40
hope first two are on their way,Lookman doesnt want to be here so goodbye, Walcott will be surplus if Richarlson signs which is a shame cos EVERYONE would rather it be Mirallas who leaves.
92 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:30:04
93 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:30:38
BIG MONEY, BIG MONEY, C'MON BIG MONEY!
We're "wild west" gambling. Somebody jump on a horse and shoot a gun in the air!
Fuck's sake man. Riverboat gamblers Mosh, Marcel, and Marco!
I'm gobsmacked to steal a phrase. Gob-fucking-smacked.
Opening day, money in the middle, let's fucking do this thing boys!
Buckle up! Giddie up! YEEEHAAAHHH!!!!
94 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:36:21
We should resist all interest for Lookman and alternate him with Richarlison and Walcott this season.
95 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:37:54
he was 20 and faded, cos he couldnt play for 12 months ...Jesus.
96 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:39:35
97 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:45:48
Let me put it this way. Let us say something like 500m people watch, play or buy EPL related broadcasts, games or merchandise globally. Id guess another 250m or so watch, play or buy into the Spanish, German and Italian Leagues. A reasonable estimatebwould be that the EU alone probably accounts for 150m of this; whilst Africa, India, rest of Asia probably have a combined 1bn people with access to internet (25% penetration) of which quite easily half could be followers of European leagues. The rest of the world (the Americas) could easily contribute 100m followers.
If you managed to get each person to spend on average just a shade over a pound a month (affordable for 750m people out of a global population of 7.5bn), that is a revenue stream of Ten Billion Pounds.
In the 5 leagues, there are 100 clubs or around 2,500 players. Assume each one earns an average of 2m a year, and 50% of this goes on wages. Agents cream off anothe 500m. The operating costs are not great in comparison - 20% of turnover. So 7.5bn spent.
That leaves a pot of 2.5bn. Take off 500m for miscellaneous expenditure and its a 2bn transfer kitty.
Each summer, about 20% of players change clubs. So that is 500 players. Perhaps half are freebies, loans or bargain basement signings.
So 2bn is spent on 250 players. If the top 10 transfers averaged 50m, it leaves 1.5bn spent on 230 players. Thats an average fee of 6.5m, not unrealistic.
The reality ofcourse is that revenues are derived from broadcasting, sponsorship, merchandising, ticket sales, not by a load of people paying a pound a month.
The cost structures are complex and ofcourse the 750m people globally follow more than a 100 clubs.
But the illustration is still valid: the top leagues have a global revenue base which looks remarkably similar to those of Facebook and Amazon, which earn a lot more Ten Billion Pounds.
There are only a few thousand footballers of which perhaps a few hundred command a fee each summer so, with so much money sloshing around, the fees should not come as a surprise.
As the world gets richer, so will the ability of people to spend 2 pounds a month on football consumption of European leagues; with perhaps 1.5bn people globally consuming the sport.
That is a forty billion pound industry. Transfer spend could easily reach ten billion pounds a season, spread amongst 250-300 players each year. Now you are looking at average transfer fees of 30m, and suddenly Richarlison looks a bargain, whilst a Mbappe could easily be sold for 500m in the next 5 years.
98 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:46:34
I thought the silliness and impropriety was finished with last year. Surely we learnt some lessons?
Revenge is sweet and Watford are seeking their pound(s) of flesh.
99 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:52:14
100 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:53:33
Amit, how are you going to get say people in China or Thailand to fork over anything near what you theorise?
On an average cost paid basis... versus streaming.... there is a real ceiling on what subscription television is able to recoup. If you make football expensive and hard to watch... then less people will make the effort or find the money to watch football. That's market forces.
In short, football will eat itself. They say in other sports that salary caps are there to protect owners from themselves. Now I can see why.
I am putting my cards on the table right now: If this is true... then Moshiri is getting his pocket absolutely picked by the parasites of football. And we, as a club, are in deep deep shit.
101 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:55:50
If this transfer happens as reported here tonight, then it undermines everything we have been led to believe. God give me strength and god save our club!
102 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:56:31
Back to the thread; all the fretting means nothing. I hope Moshiri has learned and I believe it is early days to doubt our new management team.
103 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:00:11
105 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:01:51
1. Its the clubs money. Theres only so much so £20m overspend on this lad means £20m less to buy a left back or CB. Or to build a stadium.
2. Paying over the odds on fees and wages is exactly what has got us stuck with deadwood like Bolasie, Klaassen and Schneiderlin who we struggle to shift without taking huge losses.
3. Getting a reputation for overpaying is not helpful for future business.
4. It makes us look either desperate or foolish or both.
106 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:07
You ripped the back out of us for Watford. Welcome, Rico.
107 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:29
108 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:45
109 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:05:10
Watford did sink last season and so did this lad's performances and we can only hope that it was all over the Everton - Silva affair.
If the report is true then I wouldn't take too much notice about the fee as that would not have been released to the press.
Sure he will be worth a bit and transfer fees are at an all-time ridiculous level. The RS goalkeeper fee and the crazy amount for a 33-year-old striker by Juve (even if it is Ronaldo).
110 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:14:04
If this transfer doesn't come off, Silva is going to hear about it for the rest of his life. And it will be £50 million that he hears, not £35 million with add-ons.
Remember when Moyes got griefed for years about a £5 million center back in Per Krøldrup that he got £3 million back for!!
111 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:20:38
112 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:25:00
114 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:26:52
115 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:06
He wasnt great at Fluminese either.
I guess Silva must have seen something tremendous in him but it looks a huge risk to me.
116 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:15
117 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:57
118 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:30:49
So many managers seem to go back to their old clubs for the first batch of signings and pay well over the odds. I had hoped Silva was different.
119 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:31:46
£50 million? We surely can't be about to do another Sigurdsson. Total madness.
120 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:34:23
121 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:34:29
122 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:36:39
Marco Silva knows all about him and must be massively confident he can deliver. At 21, if he is successful, he has resale value too.
Like Sigurdsson, we are playing way over the odds, more than double what he is worth from what he has shown so far.
123 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:37:35
The main negative of this is I'm pretty sure this deal will coincide with the loss of Lookman. I'm expecting a deal of £35M up front with the rest performance based. Lookman will move on in the following days; in my opinion, he wants the move. Richarlison will live up to the price tag and playing with better players will help and us. Sigurdsson will love the runs of Richarlison and Walcott from the Number 10 position. This will be a good signing.
124 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:38:22
What the actual fuck?!
Those who collectively spend ~£30m a season on match tickets alone.
125 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:39:52
126 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:42:12
I thought he was very good in the game at Goodison, in a game when I think Jonjoe Kenny, also showed that he has a big career in front of him?
Quick, strong and skilful, it was only one game, but he was also very calm (only v.good players have this quality imo) when he got the penalty at the end of this game, and although it's a massive fee, I think Everton, have just signed a player with massive potential?
Of course it might only be potential, (isn't it always). but this kid has come from nothing, he's had a rough, tough upbringing, and the only thing that might stop him being a top player, is either a serous injury, or his new found wealth taking over his life?
127 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:43:01
128 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:46:07
Anyway, you never know, someone might come in and outbid us with a £60m offer for the lad.
Looking forward to seeing him at Goodison on August 18th. With Walcott and RIcharlison, we'll have bags of pace and I really don't think any defence is going to relish having those two running at them.
We're going to win the fucking lot.
129 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:46:24
130 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:49:34
131 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:54:01
132 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:56:32
He will know which players are likely to leave and for how much, and they may well already know exactly who is coming in and how much they will cost. They will also be aware of their budget and won't be as naive as some on here seem to think when judging values of players.
This isn't a player that we've just scouted a couple of times, Silva has spent months with this kid and will know exactly how good he is and how good he may become.
In a few seasons time 100-150 million will be the going rate for top players. Brands and Silva obviously see a top player in Richarlison. If we pay 35 million now and then 15 million over 2-3 years, we'll then sell him for 3 times as much when he's fully developed.
All transfers are a gamble, but Silva knows everything about this kid. Surely that should leave us all a little more confident that he'll come good?
We're over paying because Watford need to look and feel like they've got one over on us. Obviously Brands feels that we'll have the last laugh
133 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:59:35
Richarlson is overpriced, but its showing me that we are getting a manager who isn't scared of taking risks, and hopefully this bravery, is a sign of things to come from his team I hope?
134 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:05:05
135 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:07:14
136 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:09:45
He's worth double that...
137 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:10:28
138 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:16:16
139 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:16:47
Plus with regards to Lookman, yes he has potential, yes I'd rather he stayed but if he's told the club he wants to go then what can they do apart from get the best price possible and offset it against his fee.
140 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:26:07
I think he is a quality player who would be an excellent option as central attacker (false 9 akin to Firmino), while also offering options out wide or behind the striker.
He is young and will get better.
141 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:26:38
This must simply be bullshit. The WC is just over and we fans are desperate for some transfer news.
The figures are surely wrong, even if we are interested.
As for Andy Crooks not being bothered about Moshiri's money, - don't worry about it..we haven't actually seen it yet!
It's all just sitting there insuring us against our loans.
If we do have any cash to spend, it will be from the TV money.
142 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:28:15
I'm guessing Silva was always planning to go back for Richarlison, but he needed to have a good look at what was available to him wide left in the Everton squad. Could well be that Lookman's been giving it the titty lip since Leipzig so that tipped the balance for Silva and he's made his move.
Realistically it's a £40m deal at the most, with add ons for us winning the World Cup and building a stadium on Mars etc.
So once the laughter has died down on Twitter, let's look forward to what we've all been asking for - an exciting new addition, and a forward line that's starting to take shape.
143 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:31:04
I would be very happy with that. However the Leipzig link just won't go away.
144 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:32:42
Last season we were only a laughing stock. I fear that this season we could end up being the subject of condescending pity. Lookman's alleged thigh injury looks like a lie to explain his absence while finalising a £12 million transfer to RB, while we put the finishing touches to a £35 to £50 million deal for a player who is no better based on his record for the Z Cars Thieves.
We are being taken to the cleaners in the transfer market dealing with clubs we should not even be speaking to.
145 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:35:15
Very sensible comment Sir
146 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:41:47
Well and truly were are setting ourselves up for another season of Maverickness. Does MS hopefully! Have a insight no one else does, on this lad?
Looks like some interesting days ahead, if this does happen.
147 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:46:29
148 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:52:10
Don't have a fit until something actually happens... and don't flip out if it does happen, because there's nothing we can do about it.
149 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:53:19
Joking aside, it's times to now as a club to face reality, but stay patient and be calm.. after the worst period in our history and the management of the club has in my view been the worst. It must get better soon? As Evertonians we know,
Hopefully soon Glory Days, will return, ie, do the RS, Good style at our old ground, play Chelsea and Arsenal off the park, away... and win. We did it in the 80s.
Here's to a good season for Evertonians.
150 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:55:07
151 Posted 20/07/2018 at 00:01:10
152 Posted 21/07/2018 at 00:22:06
153 Posted 21/07/2018 at 00:55:06
I worry that the Richarlison deal is being pushed through because Ademola Lookman is hell-bent on leaving the club which gave him little playing minutes. I hope at the end of this window our 'laughing stock' reputation in the transfer market has not grown but diminished; things have not started well for me.
154 Posted 21/07/2018 at 01:31:53
155 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:10:12
156 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:25:26
What the expensive transfer tells us, is that Brands either also really rates this kid or he is fully behind Silva.
The fee does seem very high and Silva will know the knock on effect of such a fee on the rest of our budget. We have to be patient and trust his judgement. There's no doubt the kid's a player, it's just the fee that concerns us.
157 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:27:49
158 Posted 21/07/2018 at 03:44:40
Yes I agree the £50m transfer fee appears to be ridiculous but we can only 'compare the market' for Everton.
£45m on Sigurdsson was at least twice his value considering age, ability, what we needed at the time and other transfers.
£30m Pickford, about £10m too much at the time and again wasn't a key position needed to be filled.
£20m Keane a little expensive but it was a position we needed to strengthen. Although I haven't changed my mind that Holgate is a better player.
£50m Ricky is young, fast, skilful, mobile and exciting. He's exactly what we need. A direct forward who can run with the ball on a breakaway or take defenders on using not just pace (Walcott and Bollasie head down run fast) but with genuine skill and vision be it out wide or more centrally.
The nearest player we have to him is Mirallas only he's far better in every department. Hopefully with the right attitude to keep progressing.
Compared to last season's buys he's definitely worth it. Over 5 years it's nothing or if he's world-class we will end up selling him for a profit. I hope he'll prove to be the first of many 'proper footballers we get over the next few years.
I'm a fan of Lookman but he's not in Ricky's league. Ability he's got, application and attitude remains a doubt. I've much more time for Calvert-Lewin he impressed me a lot last season for different managers in different roles.
159 Posted 21/07/2018 at 03:53:29
160 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:24:45
Pull your fingers out, Everton!!! COYB
161 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:40:23
162 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:50:44
To put that in perspective, our first choice Pickford was £30 million from Sunderland. First choice mind you...
Why don't we ever get that much money for our reserves etc? That guy apparently just made 2 or 3 appearances over 5 years!
163 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:59:15
We have to realise top players don't necessarily want to come to us, even if we can afford to buy them. So we either have to take risks and sign no-names for not so much or go for more established players who are not big names – even if it means paying what seems like ridiculous money.
If this was just Silva, I'd be worried, but surely Brands would have had a big say so I'm happy to trust their judgement.
164 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:01:55
Pickford's improving, he was a good goalkeeper and has continued to improve which is even more pleasing. It's just, at the time, £30M was very questionable but he's proved to be our best summer 2017 buy.
I didn't even comment on Klaassen simply because we can all see he's useless in the Premier League and never going to be a commanding central midfielder Silva demands. Our worst buy from last year and needs flogging. Another I was proven right on.
We needed top class central defender, central midfielder, forward and left-back. This would be the forward; Robinson appears to be emerging as the left-back, so I think two more and we are done.
However, to compare managers, wouldn't it be good to see what Silva can get out of Sam's team? Very different styles of play and attitude but it may quickly highlight if Silva really is the man to move us forward, if he's that good a coach.
I don't like to comment on other teams but I'm afraid on the other side of the park a team has bought top class players in the positions they needed in the last 7 months: centre-back and goalkeeper. I only hope the divas will fall out and unsettle them.
166 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:08:30
I certainly didn't foresee a chap who hasn't proved squat yet improved his value with a few good displays... it's like trying to buy off Chelsea's B side!
Saying that,the biggest issue we face is whether these players would come to us at this stage. If we had paid £15M for him, I'm not sure it would have been a statement enough for the fans. £35M certainly is a big show of faith and, to me, Marco is gambling his reputation on it! He must certainly believe.
167 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:15:43
My take is that “top” teams players come with a perceived value. “If he played for them lot or was even just around the squad he must be good”. Take Loftus-Cheek... I'm sorry but the guy is pants compared to Barkley. Yet would probably cost more than our original price!
What really bugs me is the mark-up players get after one season... and sometimes an average one. This one clearly takes the cake.
I'm in the minority but I wanted the left-side sorted and a striker. left-back, left-wing, and striker. I'll live with our centre-backs for another season... so position 1 ticked.
168 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:48:34
Stage 2 is “deal expected to be announced by beginning of week. Then we move to “Deal now expected by weekend.”
Stage 3 is news of a snag. This is followed by “why can't we sign anyone in quick time, this is so predictable – look at the business Liverpool/Spurs are doing.” And “fuck me, even Huddersfield can tie up their targets – what is wrong?”
Stage 4 will be rumours it's about money – “sack the greedy twat off.”
Stage 5 will be a premature news that it has fallen through. “Well thank God for that, he would have been an expensive waste of space”.
Stage 6 is him photographed in Everton shirt after stories of agents holding it all up. “Made up, knew he'd sign. He's gonna be class!”
169 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:49:11
I'd be getting rid of these:
We could probably also shelve:
And promote youth. We have:
Maybe let's also see what these are made of:
We can then start building where appropriate. Priority should be a new centre back to replace Jagielka long term, and let's see if Robinson is capable of stepping up to replace Baines.
I think this first team is pretty good:
Pickford, Baines, Keane, Jagielka, Coleman, Gueye, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Lookman, Sigurdsson, Tosun
Stekelenberg, Kenny, Robinson, Holgate, Vlasic, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse, Dowell, McCarthy, Baningime.
If we are getting rid of some/all of the ones mentioned then I'm all up for adding Richarlison and a couple more to add quality to the squad, but we really need to be trimming the fat surely?
170 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:10:59
171 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:24:28
We appoint a respected DoF, renowned (so we are told) for good South American scouting links. He brings a successful worldwide scouting network with him. Yet what do we do? Bid for a player Silva managed last season!
There must surely be players out there as good, if not better, than Richarlison, available for a fraction of the price. I can't stand the way managers (not just Silva) lazily go back for players they already know instead of finding new ones!
What next, Watford's left back for £25m...?!
Scout, find bargains, try harder!
172 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:24:40
This report looks for all the world like it has legs, but surely the reported fee is a mistake?
173 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:33:02
Unfortunately, we all know how dirty a game football is. And one thing I've learnt in my working life is that – when something doesn't make sense or appears a bit off – you follow the money.
Bungs, kickbacks, brown paper envelopes, payoffs, greenmail, payola...whatever you call it, the leeches are having a picnic. Someone at Everton – or some group – is doing very very well out of us paying astro-money for potential, the unproven and in many cases out and out dross.
I am very very concerned, if I'm right we are on borrowed time. Moshiri works out he's having his pocket picked, calls in his loans and walks... what do we do then? It is not Moshiri money. It's the club that stands behind these deals, and the club that will be wound up before Moshiri risks his own personal fortune. Yes he will lose some dough in this scenario, burn his fingers. But he won't be insolvent, with massive debts, a squad not worth a fraction of the purchase price, and a fan base worse off than ever.
There is no advantage to overpaying for this lad. We are bidding against nobody. Silva's personality, presence and our wage structure should surely have been enough to get him here without paying crazy money. Someone rightly compared this to being offered £50M for Calvert-Lewin. This stinks to high heaven. What am I missing?
174 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:56:22
Ash, it is true I am theorising, and I did so to answer your question.
The European Leagues are showing consumption trends remarkably similar to social media and online platforms like Facebook and Amazon. The cost of internet access in China and Thailand has dropped dramatically so people can watch, buy or participate on line.
If you use your example of Asia, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that you could get one in 7 people to spend a pound a month on football consumption of some kind for them selves or their families. That is 500m spending £6 billion.
My point is the game is consumed globally and people participate not just by watching, but by betting, buying or participating which leads to broadcasters, sponsors and merchandisers spending more and more. That expenditure they make can be recouped by charging a pound a month to 15% of the population.
Like you, I thought football would eat itself, as I thought Sky would implode and European broadcasters would, Kirsch style, similarly collapse.
Then I saw how much overseas betting and broadcasting firms were spending on rights. I saw how Middle East and Chinese owners were scrambling to buy football clubs. And I watched the Premier League fan zone phon- in program, where every single day young men and women from Africa and Asia were phoning in via Skype to comment on the Premier League wearing Man United, Man City and Liverpool jerseys.
I looked at what Facebook and Amazon were reporting as their overseas revenues.
This is global product consumed by hundreds of millions contributing a tiny share, and so the football industry in Europe will dwarf anything there is anywhere else in the world.
This revenue pot running into tens of billions is spread amongst 100 clubs at maximum, which choose to retain about 2,500 players or so in total.
A few hundred move each year, and we know European transfers already average a billion pounds and is growing. So the average transfer fee is spiralling.
The US sports which put salary caps have a finite market. There is no mass global appeal except for perhaps the NBA but, even then, European football dwarfs demand. They know their revenue streams lack growth potential and they have to husband their costs.
If I was a betting man, I would wager you that Everton will spend £100M on a transfer within the next 5 years.
I do not say I like it, or whether or not Richarlison is worth it. But I will say that when reserve goal keepers from Liverpool and Man City are going for a combined £25M, then his fee will look a comparative bargain.
It is a reality we have to accept. It is being driven by a global love affair for the game, which, thanks to increasing internet penetration all over the world, can be followed by hundreds of millions of people.
Edit: I would have preferred if we spent this type of money acquiring a proven centre-forward and a good left-back. I would prefer if the club husbanded their costs and used better organisation and coaching to improve results. But the question was around the sanity of transfer fees and, in my mind at least, I can see why even average players are commanding astronomical fees. It is not a mania, but the product of billions of pounds of revenues pouring in, and actually growing year on year.
175 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:04:21
I've heard and read enough about Brands and Silva to believe that they are serious football men that really know their business. Who cares if one of the add-ons to this fee is a sweetener to Watford? It's not our money and Moshiri can obviously afford it.
When Silva brought in this player last season, nobody had ever heard of him and he had just turned 20. Lots of South Americans fail in the Premier League but this lad didn't. So he came to a league in which many other seasoned players have failed. It's the best league in the world.
He had come from a full Brazilian season to the Under 20s World Cup, and then straight to Watford without a break. He played so well in the first 3 months that Lineker on MotD and all the other pundits were drooling every week at his performances because he wasn't just good, he was outstanding. I kept thinking: Why didn't Walsh find him?
Then Everton unsettle Silva with our advances and his form goes downhill from there. I believe there was a lot of truth in Silva asking Watford players if they wanted to join him at Everton, whilst he was Watford Manager, and I believe Richarlison was one of them. So stop moaning about the 4 months he wasn't as good because there are mitigating circumstances for that.
This guy is very good. Richarlison is tall, strong, technically excellent. His passing is excellent also, not to mention his pace. Trust me, you will be salivating at his football 3-4 months from now once he is bedded in. We have had a lot to moan about in the last 3-4 years so come on guys, every last one of you should get behind every player that walks into Finch Farm, because Silva has a system and method; he doesn't scattergun buy.
176 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:22:06
Of course, you're assuming a consistent take-up of football etc. but I suppose that's more than fair.
I suspect that the bubble will inflate a great deal more but I still think it will eat itself eventually. I don't think football is replacing fans in the Western markets as fast as it is shedding them. I see less young faces in the crowd at the match, hear less young voices on here, don't often see lads kicking a ball around.
This is the first generation who can amuse themselves. Think about that, our upbringing, if you're 25 or older that is, our upbringing we had computer games and television. But games cost money, and Tom and Jerry was only on the telly when it was on the telly. I'm not sure if, like my lad, I could play these exciting online games with my mates for nix, or watch any TVshow ever made at any time – I'm not sure I'd have all that time for football either.
That's the challenge football faces. The universal appeal of football is it only needs something round to play, as opposed to buying a tennis racquet or a cricket bat or a gridiron helmet. There's no barriers for football.
But we now live in a world where smartphone ownership is ubiquitous, and entertainment technology is incredibly individualised. Kids in Brazil now don't need to kick oranges around a la Pele to pass the time, not if they've got an iPhone or an Xbox because they play Fortnite with their mates.
Yeah, football... It will eat itself, given enough time and food. And I'd bet in my lifetime too.
177 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:29:25
A sedentary back four, the full backs can't get too far forward too quickly with supertankers between them, has meant we have been unable to press, unable to move forward as a unit and left forwards isolated for long spells.
Talk about wingers, midfield and full-backs must surely wait until we sort out two centre-backs, at least one with a left foot.
Failure to do this is likely to give us more of the same from last December onwards.
I fear another season of desperation lies ahead.
178 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:33:33
But, for the next decade, I wager you we are headed for explosive growth. Also, your point on Smartphones is an excellent one.
179 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:36:17
But if they've spent £50 million on this lad, there's plenty left for the defensive additions we need. That much is certain.
I reckon 40 years, Amit, and you're obviously almost certainly spot on about the next decade's growth. But yeah, within 20 years, almost every child on earth will grow up with a highly individualised personal media device. Football doesn't offer the sort of instant gratification this generation demands and expects.
This generation of children, at least in the Western countries, is the very first that doesn't have to be bored. I despair of my son's attention span; he's always fiddling with his phone or iPad. But all his friends are identical. For them, being amused instantly is always just a click of the button away.
They don't see a reason to be even be bored for a second, because they can amuse themselves in a second.
I don't see how football can ultimately compete. 40 years.
180 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:39:32
I certainly would not have made a right winger our priority but we have a long way till the end of August so hope we get in the much needed defensive reinforcements. (And shift a couple too.)
£50m!!! Fook me. We could have gotten Shaqiri and Arnautavic (combined) for less!
181 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:40:05
182 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:46:23
I agree, the priority is left-back and centre-back, Digne or Tierney and Mina would be great business. I am sure Brands is fully aware of it and it will be sorted. I don't think he is about to do a ‘Walsh' and mess the bread and butter stuff up.
With regards to Richarlison, a new manager has to be backed. Silva will want one or two players he knows and is confident about. It is a good sign that Silva is backing Richarlison. He is 21, Silva thinks he can help develop him into a world-class player, for Everton! I am going to trust him, £50M is ridiculous, but this is Premier League reality.
Signing him will give something extra to Silva's motivation and desire, on top of what is evidently already there. A new manager has to be backed, his judgement has to be trusted, or why bother hiring him? I think Richarlison will be an exciting player for us.
It is a gamble for sure... but, with Silva's extensive knowledge of the player, it is definitely an educated gamble. In three years time, we could be talking about a £100M player.
I am excited about his arrival.
183 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:47:57
If we sign him (not actually happened yet) everyone on here will back him. However, £50M is a lot of money for someone who cost £11M 12 months ago.
Also, the ‘it's not my money' line is a bit odd, I find. The more we pay (potentially overpay) for one player, the less we presumably have to spend on others. I hope he takes the roof off at Goodison Park but, right now, our defence is very old and very slow. Stopping goals being scored should be a high priority, possibly higher than adding to the ever-growing collection of wingers we have. I can imagine a lot of strikers will be licking their lips at the thought of playing against the likes of Williams, Keane and Jagielka (almost 36).
Time will tell but it does matter how much we spend as our transfer kitty is not infinite.
185 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:02:01
Contentious fee, I know, but it shows which one gets the juices flowing.
186 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:05:39
The next few weeks are going to be very telling but I've got a good feeling for once because I also feel that Silva has got both a method and a system which is something I hope we all find out very soon.
Fuckin' hell, Koeman let Everton sign Sigurdsson for £45 million and he never even played him in his proper position which will surely now happen if we sign this kid.
187 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:08:20
I don't care how much we pay for players, we need to trust Silva and Brands, give them time to get the players they want, then let's see what happens.
188 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:08:20
The shadow of Martinez clearly hangs over us as the folly of signing 'old' players as a comfort blanket repeats itself. Most of us would have expected more imagination from the new gaffers than that.
Mind you, if Moshiriy and Kenwright sanction this move, they will only add to the growing belief that they have learned nothing from last year's debacle and have managed to employ another couple of clueless conmen – just as they did before!
189 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:17:04
190 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:18:24
I'm still only half-convinced!
191 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:21:26
The season starts on August 11th for the Premier League and the transfer window for players coming in closes, I believe, on August the 9th (but it could be the 10th). Either way, it closes before the season starts.
At best, therefore, we, and all the other clubs in the UK, have only a further 19 / 20 days from today to complete our incoming transfer business.
Players can, apparently, still be transferred out to overseas clubs until the end of the traditional summer transfer window.
192 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:21:50
People say "Oh but we're not in Europe etc." Well, Man City weren't a few years back... Richarlison is hardly a catch. Money talks and we clearly have it and to spend it on a Watford player who had 12 good games is ridiculous.
Salah, £40 million; Willian, £50 million... Richarlison, £50 MILLION?!?! Mental. No wonder us Evertonians love a drink. We have clearly learnt nothing from last season. I really hope I'm proved wrong with this one but I'm not holding my breath.
193 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:23:27
What a bargain for 50 mega large ones!
194 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:24:01
Surely we should trust Silva knows what he's doing and Brands has rubber-stamped it. Why would Silva waste what little money he has to spend on Richarlison unless he believes he is that good?
Let's hope the lad improves on the form he showed with Silva at Watford and doesn't regress to the form he showed after Silva left Watford. Also note the lad used to be a central striker before Silva played him on the left. Maybe that's where he will play?
195 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:30:13
Swap Bolaisie and Mirallas for him, saving cash on wages and keeping cash for other transfers.
196 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:38:36
With Richarlison, he is still only a potential great player. I can't place him, in my mind, what sort of player he is.
I know how much of a potentially great player Lookman is because it shows, to me at least. I hope Everton are keeping him.
The fee for the Watford player will surely be explained, it can't be as much as quoted – that just doesn't make sense. Patience is needed, as The Esk asked for on another thread.
197 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:42:01
198 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:44:33
199 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:44:35
200 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:46:38
201 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:48:11
For those of you moaning about the fee, would you rather us not buy anyone and just have the money sat in the bank???? Because we will all get enjoyment and entertainment from that...
Stop worrying about fees... we can do nothing about them and it's all relative anyway!
202 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:07:28
Oh and another thing... don't believe what they say in the papers; you should know that by now.
203 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:17:33
We don't actually know the facts of the deal, so how can we comment/moan about the fee?
Until then, we have to trust M+M and DBB to have thought this through before going ahead.
MB + DBB have been hired to do a job and for me, just let them get on with doing that job. I trust them to do what they were hired to do.
Do you honestly think that they would throw money away? It's easy to say wait and see, but that's how it is.
I also appreciate that TW is a forum to air your views one way or the other, but guys – let's have some facts then moan/complain as much as you wish.
204 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:26:34
It wasn't Silva who hauled him off — it was his successor.
205 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:40:34
Silva & Brands identified their targets then the cub tries to buy them – remember, we don't set the price, we just set the targets and see if can happen. Watford set the price, so we either try to buy the target player as set out by Silva & Brands, or we ignore their targets and Silva & Brands are then left high & dry.
You can't have it both ways.
206 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:41:17
207 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:48:00
It seems to me that people are often unhappy whether we go bargain basement or high price players. Again, you can't have it both ways.
208 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:54:46
So good to read positivity and not without justification too. There is far too much negativity around and this should be greeted as good news.
209 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:04:22
We need to sign world-class players, or players who can be world-class. We can't sign the former, so let's try for the latter. Richarlison could be just that. Shaquiri will never be close to that.
210 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:06:35
I also agree, we need to be looking at players like Richarlison, and paying whatever it takes to buy them. I'm all for this type of signing.
211 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:09:09
I've seen more of him passed out on the pavements of Ibiza than I have seen him play football. Has anyone seen him actually play a bit?
Read a few stories saying he had a good season for Aston Villa who made the playoffs last season.
212 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:09:25
He appears to have potential and isn't that what we want. As for the fee, guess we chose whether to waste time guessing it not.
213 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:15:16
He dithered over what country he wanted to play for so this transfer could go right to the wire.
214 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:18:35
On the surface, it appears that Silva is pretty much staking his reputation on this purchase, such is the negative reaction to it amongst the football world, so he must be totally confident that Richarlison is going to set Goodison on fire. But I have a suspicion that the price has been hyped by Watford and that we're not paying anything near the £50M being bandied about. If the real figure is closer to £30M then it's not much more than we paid for Tosun.
215 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:34:31
216 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:52:46
He's a very good young player who clearly wants to reunite with Silva and play for a bigger club. I hope we seal the deal.
My guess that this is being done on the basis that players will be leaving. If that includes those who don't want to stay, that's fine by me. We need commitment from all players.
217 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:53:59
Instead of Bolasie, Niasse, Sigurdsson and Richarlison (£135M approx... and probably combined £350-400k per week wages)... Why not just buy someone like Icardi for £100M and give him £200k per week?
We had to adopt the Man City model of seeing what the best player who is attainable by throwing money at them and get them. Icardi is a world-class player who is gettable. There are others.
218 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:56:34
219 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:02:24
Hopefully it's yet another example of the bullshit being recycled on NewsNow.
220 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:05:56
You might want to Google him to see why he's a nut job and the things he's got up to. Not the kind of player I'd want at my team if it is a marquee player and 10 average ones.
222 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:09:36
Have you read the story of Icardi stealing his teammate's missus and then marrying her? The two players have refused to shake hands when Sampdoria play Inter.
Reminds me of the old rumour that Gary Stevens stole Kevin Radcliffe's missus... or vice versa, I can't recall!
223 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:15:22
224 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:21:01
Sorry, Paul, I meant to address Tommy!
225 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:32:01
I am sure Silva, who hasn't had a lot of money to spend at Hull or Watford, so he knows the value of money, so if he thinks at whatever the fee is that Richarlison is worth it, then I trust him. He said last week he had identified the players he wanted to bring in and was confident the people who look after this side of the business would get the players.
I wonder what significance we can give to the players not making the trip to Portugal, the official line is they are injured or ill. I think maybe these players and their agents might be looking at pastures new. I hope in Lookman's case he is genuinely injured, but maybe he has told Silva he wants to go to Leipzig.
226 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:42:47
Complaining there has been no signings, and then when we look to sign a Brazilian!! — who at 21 appears to have all the right attributes for an exciting future in an Everton shirt — what do we get? Disdain.
The player is well known by his potential boss, having played under him, who previously scouted him — what more of an insurance policy do you want.
Blue appears to permanently grey for some! But it's always a source of amusement that why I love this site and of course everyone deserves a shout.
227 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:46:46
24 hours later, I still cannot get my head around Richarlison being worth £50M. However, I also couldn't get my head around Lukaku being worth £28M when we bought him.
228 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:49:42
229 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:51:07
I would much sooner have Calvert-Lewin there than this lad and spend the money on a De Bruyne type of midfielder instead.
230 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:54:44
231 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:57:01
232 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:08:58
233 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:10:05
234 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:14:28
That's a good point. While I think the fee is too much, if you compare it to the price for Grealish and consider he never did anything when he was in the Premier League, at least Richarlison did have an impact... even if it was brief.
£40M for Grealish or £35M with add-ons for Richarlison?
235 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:17:11
"£30M for Pickford, about £10M too much at the time and again wasn't a key position needed to be filled."
Nonsense. All of it.
236 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:24:27
A super De Bruyne type, I mean. Calvert-Lewin has shown nothing to be kept at Everton long term.
237 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:37:33
I sense Lookman will be gone soon, and he's never been given a fair crack.
238 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:38:22
Please give a few examples of these “De Bruyne types”.
Is that a particular search criteria on the new Football Manager??
239 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:41:47
Looking forward to seeing this happen. Shocked at first over the fee but reading various comments on different sites, and with Silva's knowledge of the guy, I am quietly optimistic.
240 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:44:06
This deal is likely to go through for two very good reasons:
1) Everton are once again prepared to make complete Toby's of themselves by paying way in excess of what any other club would dream of offering – you'll notices the absence of other teams fighting for his signature.
2) This is the best offer this kid will get. The big boys have not, are not, and will not be coming in for him. Not even if you take off the £10M "hidden compo" some are suggesting will sweeten the deal. There is a very good reason for that.
This kid is decent, but he still had more poor games than good ones last season and his poor games did not (as has also been suggested) only start when Silva departed.
I wouldn't mind giving this lad a whirl, he looks like he could be a player, but, even by today's ridiculous transfer dealings, £35M for a kid who has yet to score or create half a dozen goals is utterly absurd.
Oh and those saying they don't care about how much we spend on this one player...? Na, it doesn't matter.
242 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:06:32
1. is Richarlison at his best a really top class player? The evidence available, suggests, Yes.
2. He was personally scouted by Marco Silva, who urged the Watford board to sign him.
3. The one man who can get the best out of this player is Marco Silva. Is he currently the Everton manager? Yes.
4. Did the player have a dip in form? Yes. Did that coincide with the [Everton-induced] shenanigans over Mr. Silva? Almost certainly.
5. If he had not had the dip in form, would he now be interesting the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea? Yes, almost certainly.
6. Is he a risk? Yes, but only a modest one.
7. Is the 'headline' price accurate? Unlikely, strip out bonuses, agent fees etc. and the 'true' figure is probably about £30m.
8. Will we have to pay more, because of the recent 'history' between the clubs? Probably, but it won't be much.
9. Does Marcel Brands look like the kind of guy you can 'con' in a negotiation? No.
10. Would you rather negotiate with Marcel Brands & Sacha Ryantsev, or Tony Soprano? Easy, Tony Soprano!!
243 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:09:11
244 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:27:17
1. Not quite.
4. It wasn't a dip in form, it went off a cliff for months.
5. He was linked to a number of clubs including Man Utd and Chelsea as recently as April for £40m
6. At that price a massive one.
7. The money paid to Watford you mean? It's probably not even half the reported fee, but what does it matter, Everton still need to pay all the other bills. The question is how much is add-ons.
8. We're paying £10m more than was quoted in April and all he's done since then is play worse and go on holiday.
9. I'd be more concerned about how he is in negotiations than how he looks! One of our dutch brethren gave an interesting picture of him as a "farmer". They paint a picture of a shrewd negotiator, unlike Steve Walsh who handed over cash like a virgin in a brothel.
10. What's Sacha Ryazantsev got to do with it? His brief is marketing and commerce and hopefully he's addressing those critical areas where we have underperformed for years.
Ray – most certainly. He was also rebuked by Watford for a twitter outburst after Silva was sacked. His admiration for his old manager is clear for all to see.
Also, Richarlison could speak no English when he joined. He was looked after by Heurelho Gomes, but the Brazilian keeper has found himself being shoved out the door. Obviously Silva and staff speak the same, but slightly different, language.
245 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:44:51
This is an expensive gamble. What will rub salt into the wounds for me is if we allow Lookman to leave. If Lookman goes, I predict that he'll continue to thrive at Leipzig and will be sold 12 months down the line to a top 4 side for mega bucks.
All the TV pundits were swooning over Stirling during the World Cup. IMO, Lookman will be a better player than Stirling once he has a sustained role in a team. He is a much better finisher than Stirling for one thing.
246 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:32:21
247 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:36:11
248 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:41:20
The enigma that is Jack Rodwell is a second half sub for the Hornets.
249 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:42:39
250 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:57:20
I'll say this, if we do buy this lad and he succeeds, crows are going to be an endangered species in England because so many folks here will be dining on them.
251 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:11:41
So you also classify your own message as negative since yours was the 250th?
Joking aside, I don't see any problem to be negative with such a buy (and don't think this is just mere rumour) as the guy only scored how many last season? And didn't score in the last how many matches? Sorry I'm just too lazy to find out the numbers as it's 11pm here, tired.
No matter how you wanna say it, this is a BIG gamble. He may turn out to be a 30-goal machine for us, but it's still a big gamble at this stage.
252 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:14:28
253 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:18:13
I'm afraid the only character I want at my club is a winner. I believe Icardi is that and that he is potentially world class.
if you want a team full of great blokes then good luck.
Psycho Pat, Shaggy Stevens, Andy Gray 3 of your most prime examples of less than honourable characters. But winners. And formed part of the greatest ever Everton team.
254 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:22:43
255 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:53:20
I blame Marco.
I distinctly remember thinking, "if Marco can be so reckless, surely I can be a bit reckless too?"
I think this kid, if he comes good, will absolutely terrorize the shit out of the opposition.
But we've definitely paid over the odds. And Silva is taking a really, really big gamble with this one.
Come on Richar-ar-ar-il-ar-d-arl-son. Or however you pronounce that non-Anglo tongue twisting name!
Just pay for yourself brother!
I'm behind M+M+M, but having slept on it, and drank in excess to clear my head and have a re-think, I still believe this is putting the life savings on red at the roulette table.
Fuck it. Let's do this.
256 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:56:07
We are reported to have offered £50m and it's Wait a minute we are being fleeced.
Not arsed what we pay as long as we balance the books and put a round peg in a round hole.
Koeman bought Martina
Bobby bought Alcaraz, Robles and McCarthy
Moyes bought Kilbane
Smith Bought Gazza
Kendall bought anyone who he could have a drink with...
If you are a manager you surround yourself with people you know and trust in football terms players and backroom staff.
Get rid of Lookman, who would appear wants to be somewhere else; Bolasie, who has been shite since the injury; and Vlasic, who is just not that good – and you have almost financed this deal. Ship out three realistically non-starters and replace them with a first team player.
None of us know what the deal is, we just read Shite on the web and on Twitter then other posts on here and then express our opinions as concrete facts. (I'm also guilty of this.)
When skys are grey, so is most of the fan base!
257 Posted 21/07/2018 at 18:47:52
I had hope that our new manager, with Brands working alongside side, might have had more nous than to pluck someone from his old club. Maybe a few wider contacts out there. That worries me somewhat. Especially as we do not have a positive relationship with them.
Also we only need him if Lookman goes. Are we going to acquire this guy instead of Lookman at a big net loss? That doesn't sound like good business.
And why are RB Leipzig buzzing around Lookman? I suggest his very low wages that they can easily afford. No chance of them trying to get Sandro?
258 Posted 21/07/2018 at 18:52:21
259 Posted 21/07/2018 at 19:55:26
So we have 19 days to complete all our transfers! Crikey!
260 Posted 21/07/2018 at 19:56:15
As someone resident in Brazil, I'll stick to what I know about Richarlison, the player. And that is: NOTHING!
Fluminese, his former team - a very middling club - is one of three teams my Brazilian brother-in-law follows. As such, I keep an eye on them to wind him up as he winds me up over Everton.
And in his one and a half seasons with Fluminese before signing for Watford, I have absolutely no recall of him. None.
I do recall a bit of a social media spat between the player and his club just ahead of him signing for Watford. The reigning Brazilian champions Palmeiras made a bid for him (still only 20) just before Fluminese were due to play them. As a result, the player (the club president alleged) asked not to be selected by the club paying his salary against the club looking to sign him, and Richarlison broke down in tears (again, allegedly) when Fluminese slapped his wrists for his 'immaturity'. The player drew a great deal of public criticism from fans.
Richarlison took to Instagram to deny the charges, saying: "Who knows me knows I don't do this type of thing. I am not a mercenary and I am not a coward. Sorry. I don't want to hurt anyone."
The end result was, he got a salary raise, because of the fans wrath Fluminense refused point blank to deal with Palmeiras, stating they would prefer to sell to an overseas club rather than a Brazilian one, which is what they ultimately did.
Truly, my only personal recall of the player is the 3-2 roller-coaster at Goodison last season in which he most certainly did impress. I cannot recall a single minute of his game time in Brazil.
261 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:09:39
262 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:11:12
263 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:14:25
That's a chunk of change.
264 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:37:32
I thought Silva and Brands were gonna open all sorts of avenues in our quest for new players but no, we pay well over the odds for one of his former players.
Why don't we actually concentrate on areas we're we actually need strengthening? We could well be, I sincerely hope so, plus not much sign of any deadwood going out.
265 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:16:17
266 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:24:08
No point banging on about Lookman. Koeman & Allardyce have pissed him off and I'd be surprised if he had any feelings for us now. Silva and Brands will deserve plenty of credit if they persuade him to stay. If he doesn't want to play for us, let him go.
This will be a good signing if, unlike last year, the manager knows how to get the best out of him and can build a coherent team around him.
267 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:30:00
£35 million, £10 million, £50 million. It matters not one fucking iota in the madness of the Premier League. Our new coach has identified a player and it looks like the club have got him. Well done.
IT IS NOT OUR MONEY. Let's hope he can provide some entertainment and excitement. This bean counting is small-minded. For fans to be counting the ins and outs of the club's finances is ludicrous. We know nothing. Let's have some fucking fun for a change.
268 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:43:35
269 Posted 21/07/2018 at 23:12:15
270 Posted 21/07/2018 at 23:44:50
The lad is 21, has proven he can cut it in the Premier League already, is a hard-working lad who comes from a very humble background and has his best years ahead of him. Silva knows him inside out and he is only going to get better. This signing is going to give us a threat on the left (to compliment Walcott on the right) and nobody will be talking about the fee at the end of next season (à la Pickford).
If (and its a big if) he is a failure then by all means knock him, Brands, Silva, Moshiri et al. But lets at least give them all the benefit of the doubt now shall we? As for these comments about Salah, Willian, etc – you forget one thing – prospective signings need to WANT to join Everton. You really think Salah would have left Roma for us? Or that Willian would even entertain a move here for one second? Behave.
As for 'we need other positions filled first' – again, do you think Brands and Silva don't know this? If we've not signed a left-back and or centre-back by the end of the window, by all means vent your proverbial spleen. But until then, try and remain positive and give the new management team a chance.
Yes, we wasted money last year and bought players that just didn't work out. But remember Marcel Brands knows what he is doing. I have a feeling that Tierney is going to end up at Goodison and that Brands is calling Celtic's bluff. If not, Digne will do too. Or maybe they're negotiating with someone we've not even heard of in the tabloids yet.
Now to get rid of Bolasie (subtract his sale from Richarlison's purchase and remember the latter's wages are likely to be less than Yannick's – suddenly, £50M doesn't look so steep), Williams, Mirallas, Klassen, Sandro and the other high earners who are not going to play next season and already that's massive progress.
271 Posted 22/07/2018 at 00:37:27
272 Posted 22/07/2018 at 01:34:13
If there is no auction, then why would we pay a ridiculous fee. There is no-one else in for him.
Do you think it is a good sign that we have a manager buying players from his old club? Did Klopp for example run back to Borussia Dortmund to pick up his old players? It doesn't exactly suggest a wide view of the football market.
You read perhaps a previous article of mine quoting Brands. This one cannot afford not to be a good purchase, Brands rightly says we need a 90% success rate. Moshiri has stated and Brands has repeated there has to be revenue raised to buy, so we have to sell to fund, presumably Lookman because we can't shift the rest of the overpaid deadwood. Do you think getting this guy and losing Lookman and taking a £10-20M loss is good business? Maybe for Malcom, but not this guy.
We don't have to have faith in Silva. We are perfectly entitled to question his and the club's judgement, given the crap we have bought recently. This has a pretty bad sense of history repeating itself, we overpay for someone with a very limited track record, basically a couple of months of decent performances and then he apparently got tired or disillusioned or whatever. At the very least, this is high risk, and we shouldn't be buying risk for £40M, we can't afford to do that.
As you know, my faith in Silva is not even remotely as strong as yours. While I hope you are proved correct, I don't think you will be. I think we are becoming the dopey patsy of the transfer market. Clubs can see us coming from a mile off.
273 Posted 22/07/2018 at 01:47:40
I agree with most of what you say, particularly this habit we seem to be getting known for in overpaying for players no other clubs are going in for.
What I don't agree with is the idea that we've had to sell to get funds to buy players. That's simply not true! We couldn't buy any more players because the squad was at bursting point with 38 players. We've just had a £22M bid accepted by Barca for Digne. We'll buy a new centre-bac too, so there will be more money spent than what we bring in, so while it's true we've had to move some players out, it's not for the reason you're making out.
274 Posted 22/07/2018 at 04:55:56
275 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:12:01
276 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:45:26
Richarlison is young and a risk but he has unlimited potential, wanted to come to Everton and play for Silva. His heart and passion will be invested in it. Silva and his team will make it their personal responsibility to make the lad the best he can be. Remember, any signing is a risk, this one is an educated risk. We have got to get behind the manager and player and give them 100% support and encouragement – it helps.
I think it has been a great weekend. A young Brazilian striker, who we can watch improve. He looks fearless and streetwise, just the player who can score against the top six.
Also Digne, Barca have had him scouted and signed but he has struggled to break into their fantastic league-winning team on a regular basis. This lad could be a great signing with a touch of class. Maybe the best option available for us in that position.
Judging by the interest in Yerry Mina, the universally agreed signing of a centre-back will happen too. With us signing his teammate Digne, it could still happen. If not, there maybe some other irons in the fire.
I wouldn't rule out a bit of wheeling and dealing by M&M to bring us a midfielder too before the deadline.
I'm much happier today with the progress, I think Richarlison and Digne will give the whole squad a lift. Other players will raise their game, the manager will be more confident.
I would still like us to keep Ademola Lookman; it will be a sad day if he is sold. Walcott has been great but is injury-prone, he won't play a full season. Lookman can fill in and share that role as part of his development. Lookman has the opportunity to make himself “undroppable”.
He should reconsider his position, stay and fight.
Above all, we have to look at where we are now compared to the dark days of last season. We are back in the game.
277 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:58:00
Less ludicrous at that price but still too much in my option for someone who's end product was dubious at best last season.
I give you Bolasie as Exhibit A, a player with flashes of brilliance who could seldom convert that into game changing-winning performances. At least Richarlison is younger and may improve. Fingers crossed.
As for the “the manager knows him so it must be a good move” line then I refer you to Kone, Alcaraz and Schneiderlin – to name a few.
278 Posted 22/07/2018 at 08:32:55
Going by that, he can run at a defense and beat a man and is also prepared to track back and help the defense.
At 21, he may well turn out to be a shrewd bit of business even at the reported £35M.
Looks like we have all but signed Digne. If we get a left-sided centre-back, we will have strengthened the whole of the left side.
That would do me.
279 Posted 22/07/2018 at 08:48:20
If we get Mina and Digne in defence (I won't discount a late move for Tierney) we will have a more balanced squad with more pace than the start of last season. Hopefully we can sell off more deadwood before the start of the season and some underperforming players with potential start to be motivated, particularly in midfield.
Lookman is gone and Niasse is turbocharged because, at last, the Manager has faith in him. Also, those North London gaskets have been sorted out.
Yes, I am quite hopeful regarding the coming season; more hopeful than I have been for years.
280 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:21:39
(1) is quoted fee, whatever that may be, realistic?
(2) will signing Richarlison mean losing Lookman?
We all have opinions on both points and time will tell who's are right – in the meantime, our views count for nothing. The one common theme seems to be that he is a decent player, or at least has the potential to be a decent player who will strengthen our left side – something we have been crying out for since Stevie P went to Tottenham.
281 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:29:07
Feels like we are in squander land. Can't afford the big players that the top 6 target, and don't buy those clever buys either. We seem to be prepared to spend £20-40M on big wages, with no real incentive for the players to kick on. If you're Schneiderlein on £100k+ per week that can't get top 4, what's the incentive to go the extra mile?
If they make it like Stones and Lukaku, they'll be off before you can say Champions League. So I guess we've got one more season of Pickford before he goes for £60M+. Blues will be happy with the fee, and then the cycle goes on.
Hungover and pissed off.
282 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:58:04
A bit more realistic.
283 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:36:28
284 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:42:03
After many years of wanting pace, skill, agility and work rate we got it, but we only got one part in each senior player Walcott pace, skill Rooney, agility Siggy and Gana work rate.
Ricky brings pace, skill, agility all in one package, that's what we need and a few more with it. £50m so be it, couldn't care less after wasting so much money on limited players.
Hopefully DCL, Lookman and Davies can add to it by bringing work rate plus pace/skill/agility to the team but they are in my opinion less proven especially Lookman.
Tosun, Ricky, Lookman, DCL, Walcott and Niasse (cups/sub) battling for the front 3 or 4 positions.
I fear Ricky will not sign, I fear Lookman is gone for £16m and I fear our senior players who should be sold will not be. That being and my reasonable feeI Williams £4m, Schnides £10m, Klasson £15m, Bollasie £12m, McCarthy £5m.
I hope I'm wrong and either way we still need a £40m central defender i.e. top class.
285 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:59:27
286 Posted 22/07/2018 at 11:08:41
I always liked the look of him - pacey, strong, decent shot on him, a few tricks here & there. He can be a right handful when he wants to be, and that'll do for me.
We're generally shite to watch so buying someone with pace & flair will surely be a good thing. You never know of course, he might turn out to be rubbish but we have to be in the market for young players with his attributes.
287 Posted 22/07/2018 at 11:53:34
People like David Seaman need to keep their mouth shut. Saying that Jordan will go to a big club, a top six team is just not on.
Chelsea need to get stuffed, he isnt for sale.
288 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:21:17
Ever the optimist, or maybe just a lunatic? Lets just get the crowd really going again, because its always been our best weapon!
289 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:30:51
290 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:44:39
Chelsea have told Real Madrid that they will not be bullied into selling 27-year-old Belgium midfielder Eden Hazard - even for £170m. (Mirror).
So we tell Chelsea Pickford won't be sold for any price, and basically tell them to stick their money where the sun don't shine.
Besides, I don't think Silva or Brands are quite ready to sell him just yet.
291 Posted 22/07/2018 at 13:07:28
Surely they know by now they are through the roof and after RS pay so much for a keeper who before the World cup wasn't much of a name except that he is Brazilian why is 40/50 mill. a surprise for a young striker
I like Richarleson and at 21 seems like a good investment.
Yes, I am aware that big money and big wages don't guarantee a return for the investment but that's football and all clubs/managers know the risk.
Everton have paid a lot less for no-name players without Prem. experience such as Niasse, Sandro and Tosun and none of them really cut the mustard.
292 Posted 22/07/2018 at 14:09:56
293 Posted 22/07/2018 at 15:13:40
294 Posted 22/07/2018 at 15:55:24
Sadly that was something we thought would happen with Lukaku and Bolasie until Bolasie got injured and hasn't been the same since.
If you add Walcott into the mix, we may start scoring goals again.
295 Posted 22/07/2018 at 16:04:36
Donnarumma of AC Milan, Schmeichel of Leicester and Cech of Arsenal. So let's hope they go for one of them.
296 Posted 22/07/2018 at 16:13:19
Anybody want to watch Onyekuru score?
298 Posted 22/07/2018 at 17:46:03
299 Posted 22/07/2018 at 18:13:50
I've just watched Sam's YouTube reel. Bugger me he looks a complete all-round player with some beautiful assists, many of which did not become goals through no fault of his own.
Watching Laurie's YouTube reel and seeing him play with real full-bloodied commitment makes me realize just how 'wimpish' some of our squad (some, not all) look by comparison. Best feature of all for me is his tackling back; very unusual for such an attack-minded player.
300 Posted 22/07/2018 at 18:29:49
301 Posted 22/07/2018 at 19:04:22
302 Posted 23/07/2018 at 01:54:25
I am basically quoting what Brands himself said a month or so ago. Trimming the squad size was part of the equation but also so was a very clear implication that Moshiri has basically flashed much of the cash he is willing to, and we have to trade. I think that means Lookman out the door to fund this, rightly or wrongly. The way the player trading accounting works, it will actually make this deal a net positive, at least for a year or so. But if this guy doesn't work out- and he is hardly proven, he really just offers potential, same as Lookman- then we will face another very large accounting hit.
How easily we could then move him on will depend on his wages. If he is on Klaasen or Sandro money, we'll be stuck with him.
I am perhaps a bucket half empty person, but I think that's with some justification given recent seasons. I'd love to be proved wrong about this, but I think we are running the risk of a serious lack of proven performers and too many not good enoughs, past their sell by dates or expensive hangers on. What frustrates me most is that for years, decades even, we haven't had two brass farthings to rub together and the one time we actually have proper money, we go and blow it.
And Moshiri is only a lightweight billionaire. Unless his mate Usamov comes in, I think he is going to run out of cash funding sooner rather than later. We really need this guy Richarlison and a few more of the recent signings to come good.
303 Posted 23/07/2018 at 05:14:55
304 Posted 23/07/2018 at 06:24:25
305 Posted 23/07/2018 at 09:25:34
So let's look at it really as £40 million for Richarlison = £16million compensation for Silva and then £24 million for Richarlison. Who happens to be a Brazilian international at 21... oh, and a forward who scored more goals than most of the forwards we had for last season.
Now how about a little bit of faith and let's see what the season brings.
306 Posted 23/07/2018 at 09:49:14
My fear is that the latest Dutchmen are out of the same mold as their predecessors! Just in it for the money!
307 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:01:15
I'm sure I'll hear “We're a big club, we should be aiming for the best players” — tell that to the players. Would Neymar consider us??? No. Ronaldo???? No. Even the step down from them is out of our league.
We have to look at realistic targets that will improve our team. Will Richarlison improve our team??? In my eyes... yes, most definitely!
Some fans will never be happy, but instead of just slating the management, why not give realistic alternatives???
308 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:02:24
Who are the latest 'Dutchmen'? You seem to have written both off already, before the season has even started.
309 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:15:26
310 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:37:48
311 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:51:40
312 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:03:13
I am mystified as to why we would pay £16m in compensation when we only offered £12m on the basis he would join us at that point, while still under contract to Watford and thus avoid the massive costs associated with employing and firing Allardyce.
Watford eventually sacked him which was their choice – and allegedly haven't paid Silva compensation – so I see no case for any compensation. I believe we offered £1m as a goodwill gesture which was rejected.
As I understand it, we did not 'tap him up'. Our approach was made to the club chairman. There is nothing illegal about that, in fact it is precisely how such discussions should happen. It is not the club's fault that his team's manager would prefer another club.
If we are paying £16m compensation, we are even bigger patsy than I thought...
313 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:04:56
I think it is unfair to write M&M off as ‘Dutchmen who are only in it for the money'. I see them in a completely different light, enthusiastic professionals who are embracing a project and executing a plan, slowly but surely. Give them a chance.
314 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:08:39
I'd love it if we could also sign a top box to box midfielder because I don't think Tom Davies is at the required level yet, and I wouldn't mind that Lukaku replacement we've been longing for, though I think Tosun will be given until at least January to press his case.
The important thing is to get Silva's preferred first XI up and running as soon as possible, not at the last minute.
315 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:08:52
316 Posted 23/07/2018 at 12:21:01
317 Posted 23/07/2018 at 12:54:21
Just a thought. Of course, it's easy to say they're patsies, but I've got a sneaking suspicion there's more to this than we've heard so far.
318 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:05:05
I suspect Lookman doesn't have a knock at all.
Silva is not impressed with his attitude. Its no coincidence that Leipzig keep coming back for him. If Leipzig come up with the right offer, he will be gone.
319 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:13:26
320 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:36:34
It's going to be an interesting and hopefully exciting few weeks.
321 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:41:51
322 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:48:49
Both Silva and Brands want Lookman to stay. Lookman wants to leave. Leipzig don't think he's worth the £20M we want for him... ergo, stalemate.
323 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:49:19
324 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:52:43
They have shown they mean business so one hopes Silva will be following suit even after Richarleson signs; otherwise, it looks like Pickford will have to earn his keep big time this season.
325 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:55:49
''There have been reports'' is the 'Get Out Of Jail' card these days, with no link to an actual, certified report from someone in authority who can state categorically that it is fact that his attitude has not impressed Silva.
And as for Twitter, I leave that to the likes of Trump and air-headed bimbos off reality TV.
326 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:55:57
Let's see what happens by the close of the transfer window.
327 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:18:09
328 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:19:31
329 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:34:03
He didn't have a bad career as a striker!!!!
Just saying like...
330 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:48:03
331 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:59:22
332 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:02:37
333 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:06:05
Yes thats absolutely correct...He does want him to stay..(but hes not impressed with his attitude) .Lookman doesnt..Leipzig know this and thats why they keep coming back
334 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:06:53
I attach no credibility to anything in any media until I see the player in an Everton shirt.
Amidst the huge sea of nonsense, there is plenty good stuff on Twitter, including EFC things.
335 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:08:12
336 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:33:49
It bothers me they are reporting it as 50 million.
I've never seen a reported fee included the add-ons and incentives and what not. Yet strangely this is happening with our deal, making it look ludicrous.
It's definitely annoying.
And SSN just reported today Fat Sam is warning we're buying potential, hinting we're overpaying.
I think it's a lot of money, but I'm really hoping this is a great move and decision to shut everyone the hell up.
337 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:39:20
It's up to Silva to see he get's it.
Yes it's big money whatever it is but Watford doing Everton no favors obviously so they have to bite the bullet.
338 Posted 23/07/2018 at 16:29:35
I was responding to the earlier poster who suggested we may well be factoring in compensation of £16m, which would certainly make us patsies.
Of course we know neither the actual fee and its breakdown, nor our legal position, however since it is not disputed that we did approach the club about Silva – which for example, LFC did not seemingly do with Van Dijk first time around – and the reality that we did not actually appoint him because we were rebuffed, seems to me to render Watford's case pretty baseless.
They seem to be resting on the premise that another club enquiring to their board about the ability of one of their employees – which is not at all breaking rules in itself – is the sole reason for Watford's subsequent loss of form and Silva's subsequent sacking.
Since Watford often lose form, and sack managers with great frequency, that sounds like a pretty thin argument in a 'dog ate my homework' kind of way.
I note they are also so classy that they refused to pay any compensation to Silva having sacked him, seemingly for aspiring to work for a better club than Watford – though crucially, not actually then doing so.
Once Watford have sacked him, he is a free agent, the more so if Watford aren't even paying out his contract.
339 Posted 23/07/2018 at 17:04:57
The main issue here is how good the player will be. One day I hope we buy a player that's so good everyone stops mentioning the fee .and he stays!
340 Posted 23/07/2018 at 19:54:21
My guess – and my guess is as good as anyone's who is not negotiating the contract – s £28M plus add-ons of Europe League appearances, Champions League achieved, 15 goals, FA Cup win, League Tittle and plays 50 internationals, taking it up to £38M.
Anyone else care to guess???
341 Posted 23/07/2018 at 19:58:50
At least he gives us hope. Or he gives me hope anyway.
342 Posted 23/07/2018 at 21:03:12
343 Posted 24/07/2018 at 08:45:42
344 Posted 24/07/2018 at 08:55:45
345 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:06:02
346 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:25:05
I've said it already on here, but Silva & Brands pick their targets and the club goes after them. If the club says, "no sorry, too expensive" well where does that leave the management team?
We (the club) has to be in a position to deliver the expectations & requirements of the management team when they choose their player targets and part of that is meeting the costs as set out by the selling club.
If we (Everton) don't do that, then Silva & Brands might as well pack it all in before they start.
As an aside and as mentioned above, great potential news for us about Alisher Usmanov looking to sell his stake in Arsenal. I had a hope/feeling that he and Moshiri would end up together at Everton, the USM Finch Farm deal being the tip of the iceberg. Great news in my view if it happens - I've had enough of being plucky little Everton - I want us to be super rich and trophy laden!
347 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:46:12
348 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:47:01
349 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:58:09
This is our club, whose present and future we are all invested in enough to spend hours on here debating and discussing issues from small to large.
We all want the best for the club and obviously that includes making the most of the resources that they have. Of course it's not "our" money but it is the clubs and there is not an endless supply of it. So therefore if we pay £20m more on what a good left winger might cost then that is £20m less that we might have to spend on a top class CB and LB.
Of course the fee matters because Everton do not have an endless pot of gold!
For the last few years we have overspent on the likes of Bolasie (by 10m), Keane (by 10m), Schneiderlin (by 5m) and Klaassen (by 10m) who we now struggle to get rid of due to their large wages and even if we do manage it we will take a loss in transfer fee (35m) that could have been spent buying us a better box to box midfielder like Toreirra or Ndombele.
James @346 I understand what you are saying about meeting the expectations of the management team but that cannot include us always being held to ransom. The manager might say get me a hard working, pacy full-back in his early 20s like X. By all means try X but if the club are asking for crazy money then look elsewhere for similar traits; there's alot of players out there. That's what the scouting team is surely for, to find a number of possible players to fit the remit.
Spurs are a great example of a club who have spent their money wisely for the most part. They made a few blunders such as Soldado but even then they got a pretty decent chunk of their money back. Meanwhile they have bought young and with great potential (both for playing and sell on) such as Eriksen (12m), Alli (6m), Dier (4m), Trippier (4m), Alderwiereld (14m), Wanyama (13m), Davies (11m), Vertonghen (11m). Of course there have also been the Sissokos and Lamelas but they have built a really strong team whilst having a lower net spend than us over the last 4 years or so.
350 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:26:51
Your point about Spurs is a good one but remember they went through a wasteful time when the Bale money was said to have been poorly utilised. However, your point stands up but the real difference is they have Levy and we have . . . . yes we all know!
351 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:35:54
I can't help but feel our issue (our being us the fans) is one of culture - we still have the mentality from years of penny-pinching which makes us all feel terrified to spend any big-money on players.
The PL is awash with money, and we've already recouped some from outgoing players/loans in Robles, Onyekuru, Tarashaj, Garbutt, Mangala, Henen, Rooney, Funes Mori and another large number of players released so the funds are there for incomings.
We don't balance the books, Everton does, and in Farhad Moshiri we have a very successful businessman who's worked for Deloitte and Ernst & Young as well as Usmanov so knows his way around a balance sheet a hell of a lot better than we do.
352 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:53:16
You don't become a billionaire through gifting money.
I take on board comments regarding the need for us to be prudent with our investment. Clearly we need a plan to be sustainable. But what's the alternative here?
We operate in a market where the top players go to the truly big clubs. The rest of us are fighting for what's left over. The best players of that bunch then attract a premium, discussion if they're young.
We can wait to make our moves, but every transfer window sees the prices increase. What will we pay for a left back now? 30M for someone half decent? What would 30M have got us a year or two ago when it would have seemed a ludicrous fee?
As long as the players are of sufficient quality and the right age then I reckon it's hard to really overspend by a huge amount. It's players failing that impacts sell on far more than simply overpaying in the first place.
Let's hope Richarlison smashes it. We could well look back and be thankful that we jumped in early.
353 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:56:48
354 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:01:11
He may well be an "Arsenal fan" but he's never getting the club off Kroenke, and he wants to be in charge of a club more than just owning a share of his own club.
As said before, the dubious means by which he obtained his money leaves a sour taste in the mouth, but right now, we need a springboard back to the top and this is exciting news.
355 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:11:00
356 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:20:52
As for things taking their time, well it would do "officially", but I believe Moshiri is his stooge, and that he can simply pump more money into Everton through Moshiri.
This ties in with Kenwright leaving the board in August. Perhaps, that's the date when we will see Moshiri take full control of the club and if so, I expect some of those shares to end up in the hands of Usmanov in due course.
357 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:42:49
358 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:45:50
359 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:46:07
Also, where does this rumour of Kenwright moving on in August come from? It seems an odd time for something like that to come into effect.
360 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:58:32
361 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:18:04
Moshiri and Usmanov are business partners in USM and other ventures, that is true according to publicly available sources. To call him a stooge is going abit far Steve, unless you have evidence. Moshiri in his own right is worth GBP 1.8bn or thereabouts. The public evidence suggests he has the resources to follow his own path with Everton.
I also need not remind you that calling Moshiri a stooge of Usmanov was the gist of Panoramas biased investigation into whether Premier League rules were breached. The evidence was circumstantial and refuted by evidence highlighted by the Guardian.
This excellent article by The Esk is worth a read
Kenwright was not a billionaire, So when his board comprised of people with ties/who themselves were wealthy, it was fair to question his ability to act independently of what those wealthy shareholders told him. However, again there was never any real evidence of string pulling. Just a bunch of BVI entities providing loans at eye watering rates of interest.
Worth contrasting that with Moshiris zero interest funding, with no fixed repayment date, and no additional shares over his 49.9% funding.
Bloke has done a power of good for our finances. I just wish he was just as good at keeping his mouth shut and appointing sound managers. But that is a debate for a different thread!
362 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:23:14
You certainly pay top whack for that. That cannot be said for Richarlison. He has potential sure. But so does Justin Kluivert who cost Roma £16m. If we were paying between £15m to £25m for Richarlison then fair enough. Ultimately none of know what we are actually paying!
Andrew @353, yes thats certainly true. Prices have soared since we've had money!
363 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:35:52
We're not Liverpool, much as it pains me to say it. In the modern game we're a nothing club so we pay more for lesser lights, that's just the way the market is. We're also buying a player that we know CAN do it in this division, the only question is for how long.
I'd question whether Keita and Allison will be a success in this league just as much as Richarlison.
364 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:37:32
Maybe "stooge" is the wrong word, but he is very clearly, in my eyes at least, Usmanov's man. But perhaps you can enlighten me further and explain how he acquired his £2bn fortune.
365 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:52:04
Keita is the real deal though. He looks to be the player Liverpool need and I fear that they will gate-crash the top two with him. That said, Chelsea struggled last year and they had Kante. I do think Keita looks to be real top quality.
366 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:14:50
"A mid table side with no recent winning history to speak of. We therefore have to pay more for less, and that's just something we have to accept."
I know what you mean but not sure I agree. I'd argue that there are more players of Richarlison's standard around than of Keita's. So surely they should cost alot less?
You do pay more for proven talents in the PL but then arguably both Richarlison and Bolasie had proven that their end product was pretty varied to say the least. Richarlison at least is younger.
It just seems we are in the habit of overpaying. Last Summer was a horrible example of this and best shown perhaps when we paid £25m rising to £30m for Michael Keane (in the last year of his contract) at almost exactly the same time as Leicester paid £12m rising to £17m for Harry Maguire.
367 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:50:08
We're second tier at best, and clubs know that. Watford are a competitor whether we like it or not and they set the price. If we don't pay the prices set by other clubs what then? Well I guess we buy players from lower leagues or players with less potential than Richarlison.
I can't help feeling this is a realistic target level player, and the fee may appear high but it feels (to me anyway) like the going rate.
368 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:51:50
I agree, Allison is overhyped in my view as well. Still, he can't be any worse than that other keeper the RS have been using. The one that won the Champions League for Real!
369 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:52:54
I referred to public sources in challenging the view that Moshiri is Usmanov's stooge.
In my view, you have a particular theory on Moshiri's relationship with Usmanov which is giving a particular hue on the lens through which you view information on their association.
This leads you to the conclusion that Moshiri is "very very clearly in my eyes atleast, Usmanov's man".
Again, strong words, and probably not far off calling Moshiri a "stooge" of Usmanov (which you have now backed off calling him).
Let us examine some points available publicly, then I will give you an equally plausible relationship that Moshiri and Usmanov might hold today which could support Moshiri being his "own" man:
1. Yes Moshiri and Usmanov met in the 1990s. I have read that Moshiri worked for top Accounting firms and then acted as a Personal Advisor to Usmanov. Does this automatically make him "Usmanov's man", ready to his bidding at every turn? Well if it did, then there are a host of personal advisors around the Globe (myself included) who act as Personal Advisors to institutions / individuals who should be deemed "somebody's man". This is not true. A Personal Advisor could also be a trusted confidant, and does not necessarily have to be a subordinate - I disagree with my Principals all the time, and where they don't take my advice, they often execute things without my involvement.
2. Yes Moshiri appears to have been "given" shares in one particular business by Usmanov. But, a source of that information - a Daily Mail article on Moshiri - says nothing further. No evidence or explanation. Was it consideration for a something Moshiri did? Maybe he sold shares to Usmanov in another company, or they had a some form of contract? Hard to jump to a conclusion that the shares were not part of a transaction which involved consideration from Moshiri back to Usmanov for what he received. The Daily Mail article simply says "giving a 10% stake..." not "gifting". If I gave you a 10% stake in my house in exchange for you giving me a 10% stake in your house, it is not a gift. We do not know if this particular piece of information from the journalist is just lazy use of the word "giving", or meant to say "gift", or part of some other transaction. All 3 explanations could be plausible, no?
3. Yes Moshiri sold his shares in Arsenal to Usmanov. But there was clear evidence of money changing hands and an investigation by the Premier League and the Guardian concluded nothing improper. It was an arms length deal by all accounts, and until we have proof to the contrary, it is wrong to assume anything different. Partners sell assets to one another all the time. It does not make the seller of the asset (in this case, Moshiri selling his shares in Arsenal) automatically the buyer's "man".
4. They are now business partners. Perhaps when Moshiri was less wealthy in 1990s, 100% of his work/energies were devoted to working with Usmanov. Who knows. The fact is that Moshiri is now quoted by Forbes as being worth close to $2bn. It is not implausible he holds his wealth in investments independent of Usmanov, is it? So why could he not have changed over time to become more independent of Usmanov (assuming he was in thrall to Usmanov to begin with)? I do not know where Moshiri holds his wealth. We don't know, for example, if he owns a string of real estate worth a few hundred million, which alone could support his investment in Everton.
5. Lastly, I draw your attention to how Private Equity can work. There are examples of Private Equity partnerships with 1 wealthy partner (like Usmanov) underwriting financial investments in the partnership to begin with, and sharing a slice of the returns from the investments with smaller partners (like Moshiri) who may have sourced the transaction, or structured it, or executed it. Those smaller partners (like Moshiri) then use their proceeds to go off and invest in their own transactions, independent of the wealthy benefactor (someone like Usmanov). Those transactions themselves create wealth and those smaller partners (like Moshiri) become wealthy in their own right. History is littered with a few public examples of partnerships dominated by 1 titan but having smaller partners who became wealthy in their own right (with wealth being the platform for independence). A couple of examples: Steve Ballmer (now worth $40bn) was an employee of Microsoft and took over from Bill Gates, eventually taking the company away from the PC-first culture Gates, as the powerful founder had instilled. Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet's partner in Berkshire Hathaway, has in his own right become a respected and significant investor. Neither Ballmer nor Munger can be described as anyone's "man". They are less wealthy than Gates and Buffet, as Moshiri is less wealthy than Usmanov, but that does not automatically mean outright subordination.
So, I think there is a plausible case to say Moshiri could be his own "man". It is plausible that one can acquire independence from a benefactor/sponsor, despite having an extensive partnership with them.
An Usmanov investment in Everton, continuing the theme, could equally be driven by Moshiri's influence/powers of persuasion over Usmanov, as a trusted confidant and business partner.
370 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:04:18
It also does not explain why the USM hedgefund sponsors us to the tune of £50m. Everton clearly panicked and plastered USM Finch Farm everywhere, because that was not something they asked for. Is it usual for a fund like USM to sponsor a training facility? what do they get out of it? Why do they need to raise brand awareness? There's been a lot written about Usmanov being in the shadows at Everton, and I do think that is the case. Everything I've read about Usmanov and the way he himself acquired his fortune tells me that he does not play with a straight bat, and I would expect him to operate in the shadows with a puppet in charge of Everton, whilst he had one final go to wrest control of Arsenal off Kroenke. Time will tell if that is the case.
I don't deny that this is all conjecture and speculation, there's far too many questions regarding Moshiri and his money, and it only makes sense to me if he has a large fortune that is actually Usmanov's money and he is controlled by him.
We should know a lot more as time goes by, because I doubt Usmanov would remain in the shadows once he sells his arsenal shares. If he does not join Everton, then clearly I've read it wrong and Moshiri is his own man and it's his own money.
371 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:16:03
Steve, for someone who self-professes that you work in law, your speculation and conclusions at times seem far removed from the stringent application of proven facts that (should!) apply in your chosen profession.
372 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:16:19
I just read about Malcom going to Barca being potentially good news for us in that Mina is now even more likely to be offloaded due to the EU rules on foreign players.
373 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:23:07
Criminal Court work is very difficult because it is seat of your pants stuff, and if you want to be meticulous and plan everything, then you're going to struggle in cross-examination as all your plans go out of the window nearly every time witnesses start talking.
If I was a corporate lawyer, I might take your point.
How about you divulge your profession so every time you post I can quibble what you say by cross-referencing your profession?
374 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:26:37
375 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:51:35
I am well aware how different arms of the law work. I am well aware that in many cases the verdict can hinge on which lawyer does the best 'discrediting' job on the opposing witnesses. I am well aware that this oft times has little or nothing to do with 'proven facts.'
In such cases, should it be trial by jury, the sitting judge can direct the jury as an aid to reaching their verdict. Justice most certainly is not always done.
In your exchange with Amit I read attentively both his and your submissions. IMO, Amit's are more credible and objective. Your's are more speculative (you admit this yourself) and subjective, based seemingly on nothing more than a personal gut-feeling.
Rather than counter Amit with more credible arguments, you simply compound your speculation. With respect, if you applied the same strategy in a court of law, a half-decent opponent would run rings around you, which for me, Amit certainly does with you.
As for challenging me 'to divulge my profession', ain't gonna happen Steve. I make it a deliberate policy to reveal as little as possible about my private life on TW.
376 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:01:45
377 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:04:04
378 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:18:21
If we have to post legally credible arguments whatever our professions we would get bored shitless and Steve would never get an hour off!
379 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:20:17
380 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:24:58
381 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:36:45
As for conjecture and speculation, why on earth aren't I allowed to indulge in that? As I have said many times before this is simple escapism from real life. If you want to pay me to put forward a professional argument, then rest assured I would catalogue a load of sources and the like and put things forward properly.
I believe Usmanov is lurking in the shadows at Everton. Time will tell if that is correct or not. I'm not seeking to prove that is the case or win you to the cause, I frankly don't care. Amit makes very valid points. But it doesn't satisfy me about Usmanov's role or intentions regarding Everton.
Why is it always you who gets so personal with people on here. You want to remain anonymous, yet you constantly want to shine the spotlight on other people's personal details. My profession has nothing to do with my discussion with Amit. I said that he appears to know more than I did. I don't put forward my own expertise in these matters, so why do you need to bring these things up? It's not the first time you've done it, to me or to others. You don't want to reveal information about yourself, then stop brining things up about others.
382 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:42:00
Jay, BRZ, with all due respect, you really do come over like a smug git at times. I had a wee poke at you a few weeks ago, which got your back up and venting, claiming I offered nothing to the debate. Sometimes the tone of a post gets some of us offering an opinion on said tone, which is offering something. You are aware of how you come across as you have had a few run ins on here. As mad as it might sound, I am not trying to stir sh*t up, but your condescending manner grates. You will most likely give me an ear full, fair enough...
383 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:43:21
As for challenging me 'to divulge my profession', ain't gonna happen
Totally unfounded speculation on my behalf but I reckon you are criminal mastermind with plans to take over the world. Am I close ?
and do you have a white cat or a 'mini-me'
384 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:44:32
Not over complicating things at all.
I stated why I find Amit's posts to Steve more credible.
I stated why I hold Steve, who outed himself as someone who works in law, to higher standards than some others on TW. It's actually a compliment to Steve, whose contributions I greatly enjoy.
Because Steve is given to outlandish speculation at times which, when pulled up on, he is also given to get resentful about.
Of course, I could just write 'yews r talkin' bollocks' and nowt else.
Is that more in keeping with what you want, Dermont?
385 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:46:30
Sorry to disappoint you, but don't recall what you are referring to or even recognize your name.
386 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:49:10
387 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:47:48
Then, spitting in the face of his own profession, he'd probably start talking togger in a...dead common...non-courtroom tongue, instead of bemoaning how cuts to legal aid are going to lead to sightings of a duty solicitor becoming rarer than a Davy Klaassen start.
Merseysides answer to My Cousin Vinny.
388 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:52:04
In other news, Richarlison's paperwork has been delayed for an unspecified reason but will be completed today. Looking forward to some awkward photos of him in his kit, followed by a generic/dull interview where he reveals it was the "istory of this great club" and "the manager" that swayed him to join Everton.
I can't wait.
389 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:53:21
Or do you want to tell me you have never sat in a court when pretty much everyone in attendance - including his defending lawyer - knows the accused is guilty of the crime, but their lawyer does their job so well that the accused gets off Scot Free? Is justice really being served?
And Steve, when have I ever denied you - or anybody - the right to offer conjecture and speculation on TW? I'm the polar opposite. For me, anything and everything goes on TW - far more so than the editors.
What I do do is challenge such conjecture and speculation if I think otherwise. Or would you wish to deny me that right?
Now there are a good few on here who immediately, but immediately, get resentful if anything they post gets challenged in any way, somehow believing their view is sacrosanct and unquestionable. It isn't.
Their view can be made robust if they can respond to challenges made to their original post, but some simply don't. They go into immediate meltdown, which in my eyes further undermines their original claims.
From your contributions it is self-evident you are inclined towards deep research. I respect that. But again, the research you sometimes make is not always accurate, or truly representative of the subject, and the conclusions and speculation you reach from your research most certainly are not the definitive ones. It is perfectly legitimate for others to challenge you.
As for your claims about me 'wanting to remain anonymous' and 'always getting personal', errr... hardly Steve. I don't hide in the shadows, do I Steve? I genuinely like to debate points of interest to me.
Clearly, people 'profile' and 'pigeonhole' me on TW, as you yourself attempt in your latest post. I'm not arsed. So in that regard, you really are no different to me in the charges you make towards me, are you Steve?
390 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:57:39
I hope I never find myself in a position where my liberty or financial welfare is subject to such machinations. Or is it all supposed to even out when two of you are at it?
391 Posted 24/07/2018 at 17:34:21
392 Posted 24/07/2018 at 18:50:58
I hope that is not the full extent of your “active imagination”. If you're going to play the “I'm a lawyer” card and dominate threads then you have to expect people like Jay will challenge your conclusions, especially ones you readily admit are conjecture.
At the same time, if someone doesn't wish to disclose their personal information on a public forum it doesn't mean they are trying to be anonymous.
You make a good point on this one however so too does Gary Russell and your pithy “I don't even remember you” reply to him – besides being very predictable – proves the exact point Gary was making.
As Steve says, you do get personal at times and resentful (not to mention narky) when others challenge you, which is precisely what you accuse others of. (Though you are far from being the only one on TW who does.)
Sometimes if enough people tell you the same thing about yourself, it's worth listening to it.
393 Posted 25/07/2018 at 01:20:32
I think there has always been a possibility that Everton would become Alisher Usmanov's Plan B but in partnership with his business partner and friend Farhad Moshiri.
394 Posted 25/07/2018 at 06:58:45
As a result of coming across this little snippet I am most definitely going to watch the full movie. It appeals to my sense of humour.
395 Posted 25/07/2018 at 07:18:06
396 Posted 25/07/2018 at 08:31:51
That dog by the way is a "Blue Heeler" – a fine breed. ;)
398 Posted 25/07/2018 at 08:51:08
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.