Everton close to Richarlison swoop

Friday, 20 July, 2018 390comments  |  Jump to last
Catherine Ivill/Getty Images
Everton are reportedly in talks with Watford over a move for Brazilian forward Richarlison, the player whom Marco Silva signed for the Hornets last year.

Some outlets suggest that the club are offering Watford between £40m and £50m (although some doubt has been expressed over whether that would be the entire transfer fee or the total package inclusive of wages) for the 21-year-old whom Marco Silva signed for the Hornets last year.

MailSport and Bleacher Report claim that the Blues "are close" to landing Richarlison whom Watford picked up from Fluminese for a little over £11m, with the latter claiming that the forward is already set for a medical.

Together with Sky Sports, Paul Joyce of The Times, widely considered to be among the most reliable journalists when it comes to Everton-related transfers, has also tweeted that the clubs are in negotiations.

Richarlison made a fast start to life in the Premier League, scoring five times in his first 12 starts before tailing off along with his team's results, a run of form that cost Silva his job at Vicarage Road.

21/7/18 Update Both the Liverpool Echo and the Daily Mail are reporting that a deal has now been agreed with Watford, the former claiming it is £35m plus add-ons up to £40m, the latter saying the fee is "up to £44m".

Both sources report that Richarlison will undergo a medical on Monday.  


Reader Comments (390)

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Tim Locke
1 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:45:10
There has to be a typo or two in that
Robert Leigh
2 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:49:10
Agreed Tim - that is double the highest figure I expected to see!

He had a good six months, mostly under Silva, so his price increases £39 mil? With that rationale Lookman is worth the same, and he isn't (yet).

Dermot Byrne
3 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:51:19
Wonder if we could just buy those Austrian lads and look forward to being on BBC FA Cup round 1.

This money is obscene.

Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 20/07/2018 at 17:58:28
First spotted in the under 20 World Cup, which was won by England, with four Everton players on the pitch during the final.

It really sounds like Silva, wants a proper wide player, so I just hope we get the right one, after being linked with loads of them?

William Cartwright
5 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:12:19
Leicester winning the league 2 seasons ago was not a fluke. There were several factors which all came together at the same time; general poor form of the Big 6, luck with lack of injuries, etc., but most of all they were a team motivated by, and driven on an upwardly curved roller-coaster of confidence engendered by a greta manager who just got it right with his motivation and an 'us against the world' underdog approach.

Regardless of the mid - long term success of M+M, we are banking on Marco getting it right, by emulating to some extent the performance of Ranieri, or something similar. Do we think he can achieve it? Possibly. Do we believe he can do it? Some do,some don't. It is going to be a season with highs and lows.

If we do get Richarlson, Zaha, Yerry and Tierney (still available?)for example (dreamland we could still be in for a major surprise. I some big names at big prices do arrive, the cull will be quite extensive. I also think we are exaggerating the difficulty in moving players on. If a player knows he is not wanted and is not going to be playing, he will always look elsewhere, even if we have to subsidize his salary for it to happen.

Gavin Johnson
6 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:16:15
A good promising player, but £40?! No!! £50m?! he's never worth that!
John Keating
7 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:17:23
Got to be some sort of joke surely
Peter Warren
8 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:23:03
Seems unlikely
Sam Hoare
9 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:25:29
Please don’t let us spend more than 25m on Richarlison!!

The idea that we might have spent £100m on Sigurdsson and Richarlison is too depressing for words. £50m should buy you players who CL standard in their position.

Jimmy Hogan
10 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:35:01
This is Agent bullshit I should imagine.
Ian Bennett
11 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:37:08
Absolute fucking joke if true.
Gavin Johnson
12 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:37:59
If this deal goes through for £50m and we sell Lookman for 20m euros we'll be no better off. I thought Brands brief was to get value for money?? Hopefully we're all jumping the gun and this story BS!! I'm not against us buying Richarlson but it should be around half the fee quoted.
Rob Dolby
13 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:39:55
I am bemused by the figures involved in these transfers. How does 11m 12 months ago turns into 40m now? The lad had a decent 3 months.
Do we need yet another right footed winger for 40m?

This transfer will add to the unbalance in the squad. Buy a left back, centre back, centre mid and striker. Stay away from the wingers for a while.

There is something python esq about our transfer dealings over the last couple of years. We are stockpiling icing on the cake type players rather than strengthening the spine.

Paul Birmingham
14 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:40:54
In my view if true, then surely the club won’t be fleeced, on the price,as if the stories that suggested the club was baking at 25M for Tierney, this is concerning.

Still we each have our views, as ever interesting times at EFC. Who will be the first player in?

M&M have a plan, now let’s see.

Michael Lynch
15 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:41:57
This sounds like the kind of deal we did last summer.

The rest of the country will be laughing at us if we give them £40m+ for a player who's had about half a dozen decent top level games in his career. Mind you, we signed up Silva based on much the same.

Bill Gienapp
16 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:51:23
How come we can never seem to identify the Richarlisons of the world when they only cost 11-million? Those are the sort of deals we should be making. It's like we're emulating the laziness of a top six side that just spends its way to the top, without actually getting world class talent for our money.
Derek Knox
17 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:51:33
Got to agree, if true, the figure is verging on nonsensical. He seems a good, but hardly spectacular player, from what I have seen of him.

I know the ridiculous amount of money, Koeman frittered away mostly on flops, has nothing to do with Marco Silva, but I can't help but feel that history may be repeating itself here, if the amount is correct.

Any deal with Watford was bound to be difficult, but this surely takes the biscuit.

I had hoped when Brands and Silva were taking so long in the Transfer market, they would be unearthing unknown hidden gems, not following in the overspending trend that seems to be commonplace in the Prem of late.

Ash Moore
18 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:54:10
IF true. IF. Then yeah forget it, Moshiri is having his pocket picked plain and simple and we're fucked.

Must be bullshit. Right?

Lee Paige
19 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:54:59
I want to 🤮
Andrew Thompson
20 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:55:59
Paul Joyce from The Times tweeting it now and
Gavin Johnson
21 Posted 20/07/2018 at 18:57:04
This looks like it's happening. Even the Watford Observer are running the story now. This is astonishing! We're gonna be a laughing stock on this deal.

Lets just prey we get the player who was playing for Silva at the start of last season.

Lee Paige
22 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:00:45
Couldn’t we have offered 50 million for Malcom?
Steve Hogan
23 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:01:07
From what I have seen and heard of Brands, the fee will be nothing like that which has been quoted.

He was brought in by Moshiri to eliminate the gross mismanagement of transfer funds by Koeman and Walsh. I simply cannot see him (or Everton) being taken to the cleaners again.

Jim Bennings
24 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:03:18
Not registered a goal or assist in the last 23 games of last season but he’s apparently a £50 million player?

Liverpool got Salah for £37 million last summer we paid £45 million for Sigurdsson.

Liverpool get Shaqiri this summer for £13 million and we are paying potentially £50 million for Richarlison?

Looks like we’ve really learnt our lessons from last summer eh?

Blame Koeman and Walsh.

Sam Hoare
25 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:03:56
Ok. Surely that fee included wages and all potential add-ons? I could just about live with £20m fee rising to £30m if we get CL etc and then £10m in wages over 5 years. Taking the whole ‘package’ over £40m potentially. I could handle that. If the fee is any more than £30m then that’s ridiculous.
Gavin Johnson
26 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:04:34
Lee #22

We probably couldn't attract Malcom or Lazano so we've reverted to last season's transfer strategy of overpaying on good, but not good enough for top 6 clubs players.

Gavin Johnson
27 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:10:31
Really hope you're right Sam. Yes, £40m is just about feasible for the whole deal with add ons etc, but £50m is just a piss take! We're in laughing stock territory there.

Can anyone else think of a comparable deal?? I can think of Man City buying Steve Daley for a British transfer record but that was years ago. People were scratching their heads at that deal. This one seems equally ridiculous.

Philip Bunting
28 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:14:38
If that's the transfer fee alone Silva will have his head in a noose before a ball is kicked in anger. Silvas judgement on this one, he had better be right. If he is, the lad is only 20 so could turn a great buy. Only time will tell on both player and manager.
Craig Walker
29 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:15:21
Sky sources say Everton are in advanced talks for £50 million. Not sure this is a wise move but we’ll see.
Tom Dodds
30 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:13
Same old Repetitive history.
Except for Pickford,we seem incapable of a real major coup.
I know window hasnt closed but FFS.
Jim Bennings
31 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:35
I’m guessing it signals the end for Lookman and Bolasie anyway.
Kunal Desai
32 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:17:45
When changes were made after the season finished the negotiating team should have all been sacked.
Malcolm Evans
33 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:18:43
Or could it be that we pay over the odds for him and then see Watford drop their claim for compo from the Silva appointment?
Lev Vellene
34 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:21:21
Hmmm, Silva recently said something about how stuff should be happening soonish on the transfer front. So the lazy hacks have fresh fuel for their click-bait speculation, with only vague connections to reality? And we bother to scream and moan? Click some of those sites that just echo the first hack, then wallow in the inevitability of it! Mmm, smear it on your skin, then wail loudly!!!

I'll wait to see what actually happens during next week!

Btw, did we promote our trusty contract-signing guy away from the official pictures we all trust?

Gavin Johnson
35 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:23:41
Jim #24, In fairness we wouldn't have attracted Salah. We've got money but can't attract players over our neighbours and the other teams above us. So we'll continue to overpay on the best of the rest type players.

I suppose where this deal is a little different to the deal for the likes of Bolasie is that Richarlison has potential, and Silva must think he's pretty special. However at this moment in time, Richarlison isn't as good as Malcom or Lazano, and the fees for them would have been less if we could have attracted them to sign. In all honesty, for me, Richarlison is at the same level as Lookman, and is he worth £50m??

Rob Dolby
36 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:24:03
Having seen bits of Richarleson on TV and in the game at Goodison and having seen cameos from Lookman. Who is the £50m player?
Geoff Lambert
37 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:26:56
Lev. I thin David Harrison has moved upstars as well as doing his signing job.


John Otway
38 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:34
Jim Bennings #24. Re your little temper tantrum. Do you really believe every word you read on line and in the press? If you're only 16 then I retract this comment.
David Milner
39 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:45
I feel that this would be a good buy if the figure includes Doucoure & the compensation negotiated for Silva. Otherwise it is a joke.
Philip Bunting
40 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:28:45
Have we not got a few players that could be traded with Watford in this deal. Bolasie, Besic, Williams. I'd part with lot if I could. We need to be shipping them out as well as bringing them in.
Brian Williams
41 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:39:57
How can anyone "really" get angry (or anything else for that matter) over yet another link.
Jeez lads get a grip ffs.
Lev Vellene
42 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:42:48
Geoff #37, then I hope he'll either have that on his plate still, or have an apprentice lined up for a longtime stint of looking enigmatic!

Everton-signing photos just won't be the same ever again...

Will Mabon
43 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:43:33
It's just directly hit the main page of the BBC Football website, without going via the Gossip section. Therefore it must be true.
Chris Bentham
44 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:46:12
If that's who the manager wants, thats who he gets.
If 67m for an ok goalie is the going rate then 50m for who the manager believes is a huge talent and young is the clubs choice (bearing in mind it will be heavily loaded on performance). Three years from now we could be saying what a bargain because we are buying the right talent at the right age according to the manager and the sporting director.

If only football was as easy as spuing stats out or requoting articles we'd all be managing top league clubs.

Paul Hewitt
45 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:52:54
I don't care if he costs £50 million, or £50. It ain't my money. Plus I'm sure Silva will get the best out the lad.
Jack Convery
46 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:53:17
Compo involved for Silva at that price surely. Not worth £20m. If paying over £40m go for Zaha, Perisic or Rebic.
Ed Fitzgerald
47 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:54:29
Chris

Here are some facts that make me want to 'spew'

RIcharlison

38 premier league games

5 goals and 4 assists

Deal worth 50 Million

Lunacy

John Keating
48 Posted 20/07/2018 at 19:58:32
If true then I don’t see an issue

That would mean we can value Bolasie at 75 million and Lookman at a hundred million plus

It has to be a wind up. If we haven’t learnt anything from last preseason then we really are in the shit

Andrew Grey
49 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:00:14
£35m up to £50m. If he goes on to fulfill the requirements to meet the higher price then maybe he would have been worth it.
Mark Wilson
50 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:01:41
Unbelievable. Can it be true, fifty million ? Bizare, here some of us getting more then critical cos lasts face it the new Brands era hasn’t got off to a flyer, yet. But could we be about to do the Koeman “ I must have this player” all over again ie for Siggy substitute a Watford guy who nobody had heard of 18 months ago, has never done double figures in the Prem, and is costing fifty, yes fifty million. Strewth, lets hope he’s Rom and Rooney and Kane all rolled into one.
Minik Hansen
51 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:04:15
Seems other clubs have smelled what Moshiri provide. If we are sensible, we should stay away from those kind of deals atleast this summer.
James Morgan
52 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:06:20
Why is everybody getting their knickers in a twist? This lad is quick, tricky, athletic and only 21! Granted, it’s a lot of money but aren’t most players these days?
The proof will be in the pudding, and we might all eventually think “that’s not £50m wasted for sure!”
I hope, at least.
Andrew Ellams
53 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:08:53
I've given up worrying about transfer values, they mean nothing anymore. He looks good, he's young but I hope we can hang onto Lookman too.
Len Hawkins
54 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:09:16
They sign an Alison we go for a Betty or a Florrie.
John Keating
55 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:15:05
From buying a shedload of No 10s we now want a shed load of wingers!

We moaned about paying for Tierney in a positon we need to fill We need a striker and a centre back so lets get another winger!

There’s something in this Richarlison shit as it’s all over the news

What a bloody wasre of money Will we never learn?

Paul Smith
56 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:16:22
Can't believe the moaning on here before a player has been bought or a ball been kicked.
Tommy Surgenor
57 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:20:49
Absolute lunacy for a player with very little end product.

For that sort of money I’d be looking an Insigne or the like.

Steavey Buckley
58 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:25:09
Not one new winger will stop Everton conceding goals by the bucketload as they did last season. So far, there are no left back and no left centre half. Or is there a good midfielder who can get the ball forward at the first opportunity instead of passing sideways and backwards and sideways again then back to the Pickford to launch a ball that Bolasie can't contol.
Ash Moore
59 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:26:33
Put it toward the fucking stadium! Football has jumped the shark if this guy is £50M.

Does anyone think athletic, fit footballers who can play to Davy Klaassen's or Niasse's level are somehow rare or hard to recruit? This is, like the Dutch, tulip time, utter madness, total folly.

How can it not be cheaper to spend £10M or £15M scouring the planet for someone of similar ability? How long can footballers keep pretending they are worth astronomically more year on year when there is no shortage of them, there never was, there never will be, and through global communication you can scout anybody anywhere?

Do any business minded folk have an answer why the market doesn't fix this?

Rob B Williams
60 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:27:30
I know it's our club, but thank god it's not our money! Unlike some on here, I'm not too worried about the cost of buying as we do not really know the true value/potential of these players until they turn up in the blue of Everton.

No – I'm more concerned at what we can recoup for the dross... sorry, deadwood sitting on the bench; after all, we fully realise their worth to Everton and what it will cost to get rid.

It's all a game; we pay to watch the game, not pay the wages nor the transfer fees. If it all goes pear-shaped, others will pick up the bill... or should that be 'Bill'?

Rob B Williams
61 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:33:26
I seem to remember that, when Watford were offered around £15M by Everton in compensation for upsetting their apple-cart for touting Silva, Watford said they would NEVER do business with us again. So – perhaps, just perhaps the £50M includes the original £15M that we have succumbed to forking out – to keep everyone happy, like!!
Stewart Lowe
62 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:01
I think a lot of people are going to eat their words. This lad only turned 21 two months ago. I can see exactly what Silva is going to get out of him and in two years time we will be fighting clubs off at £100M.

There is far too much negativity. Silva obviously knows he can get the Richarlison he had for 3-4 months. Nobody is the finished article at 21. He isn't Mbappe but Mbappe is a rare thing. Give this guy time and support and he will have us off our seats going forward.

Don't forget – we are used to seeing drab football. I don't think Silva will get his credit for this signing but he will when we see what he has in mind. Watford don't have a Digne or Sigurdsson playing along side Richarlison last season. Let the good times roll. 😃😃😃

Ernie Baywood
63 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:16
I usually go with the "don't worry about the fee, it's not your money" but this one is something else.

I remember people raving about him and I didn't think that much. Exciting but very raw. I figured he was the classic flash in the pan.

£50 Million!!!

£50 Million!!!

If he signs then best of luck but... £50 Million???!!!!!

Dermot Byrne
64 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:35:32
I hate the spending in football generally but you have to wonder why those who pay the most win the most. Guess they buy the best and drive up prices of the rest.
Jamie Crowley
65 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:37:27
I'm in 100% naive, "I trust M&M" territory for the foreseeable future, but...

This is certifiably nuts.

Take the £50 million and pour the foundation to the new Bramley-Moore stadium!

The world's upside down. It really is. The world economy isn't this strong that a sport can be chucking numbers around like this!

It's all going to come crashing down again, a la 2008. And the next time it does, and it eventually will, sport will be affected as well, methinks.

Insanity. No way this is true at £50 mil!

Jason Broome
66 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:41:19
This has to be a joke!

Richarlson is average and not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination. He's on a par with Bolasie and won't take us forward.

Forget YouTube edited rubbish. This guy is not a top 4 signing.

David Chait
67 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:42:26
I've figured it out... we've built in an amount as a settlement of the Silva leaving Watford issue! Hiding it in a player value!

[*taps head*..]

Tommy Surgenor
68 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:47:48
Wasn't it only a few days ago that the same outlets were suggesting Richarlison, Dacoure and compensation to be settled for a combined £50 million?

Now we're down to £50 million for just one?

Ian Burns
69 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:51:42
This looks to be happening – all over the BBC. I think this is Watford getting their own back. They will be laughing all the way to the bank.

I know it's not my money but boy does £50M hurt.

Please somebody tell me this guy can play at centre-back!!

Jeff Armstrong
70 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:55:09
Richarlison the one footed (right) left winger,really lit up the World Cup for Brazil, didn't he?? Was he even in the squad?

We are being fleeced big time again... Oh wait it's not my money, I shouldn't have an opinion.

James Morgan
71 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:56:16
At 21 he looks better than Zaha did at that age and now he's expected to go for £60M+.
Brent Stephens
72 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:56:27
BBC says £35M plus add-on clauses. A bit more palatable? If he performs as we'd hope (great), we pay more. If he doesn't, it's only £35M (er, gulp).
Martin Berry
73 Posted 20/07/2018 at 20:57:25
Only the clubs know the fee involved, so calm down, lads! Amazing how underpants get so twisted on speculation!

Also, he is 21 and may turn into something very special, he has Premier League experience and at his age can only get better.

Paul Tran
74 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:00:52
I've not seen enough of this guy to have a strong view. The big ifs are; he's young enough to be an improver, Silva knows him and will know how to get the best out of him, he may improve surrounded by better players, he knows the Premier League so possibly less of a gamble than overseas players.

As for the fee, it's all daft money these days. It's only a problem If he turns out a poor player.

Paul Rimmer
75 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:01:29
I seem to remember he started last season having had no break from footy. Probably no surprise that his form dipped. If we've bought a player who gets the crowd up to their feet and the team scoring more goals, then I'm happy.
Andy Crooks
76 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:02:05
I don't understand ordinary supporters like us fretting over Mr Moshiri's money. It probably will not be that much but who cares?

Brian Harrison
77 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:02:49
I think I will wait until he signs and then hear what the deal is; so far it's just speculation on price. If he does sign, I don't think Silva will play him wide – I think he will play him up front instead of Tosun. If you are going to play quick counter-attacking football, you need a quicker front man than Tosun.

I think we need to back our manager; let's face it, he was instrumental in taking Richarlison from Flumenese to Watford so nobody knows him better.

Funny... 2 days ago, half of ToffeeWeb was going mad because we hadn't signed anybody, and now a deal looks a possibility, they are saying "No, we are paying too much."

Jamie Crowley
78 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:08:31
I've been preaching fiscal responsibility thinking we can't sign the fucking team mascot to a contract!

Hell, I got on a "get behind Oumar" rant on another thread in part because I didn't think we'd sign a soul. And I like the guy. I digress...,

We need to trim the squad!

Surely Tosun, Sandro, and Klassen out the door - and maybe Williams too - if this is an accurate report??

Has to be some extra hush money in there for tapping up Marco!!!

I can't believe this. It's seriously nuts.

Mark Cranney
79 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:09:36
I think there are a few things everyone is forgetting here.
Firstly we upset Watford by trying to pinch their manager, then there season fell a part.
Secondly then after they sacked there manager we finally get him.
Thirdly now any player from Watford is going to cost us slightly more then it should do.

Richarlison was very tasty at the beginning movement on and off the ball a driving force for Watford, form dropped on so many players when the manager went.

Now the fee says upto 50million with all the add ons and there will be a lot of add ons so the real fee who knows 25/30 million perhaps.

Jeff Armstrong
80 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:20
Richarlson,Bolasie,Walcott,Mirallas,Lookman,2 from 5 out wide, none of whom will contribute much overall, 4 goals a season if given 30 games ..maybe,
7 assists if given 30 games ..maybe,


£25 million a year in wages for not much product

Meanwhile Jagielka and Baines shore up our defence, Tosun and Niasse are rotated for goals that rarely come.

Schneiderlin and Gana continue to create less than Zilch..welcome to the new season,we’ve learned nothing from last season.

Moshiri you need to get a grip..businessman. Ha

Jamie Crowley
81 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:27
Andy Crooks -

If you love your club, and there's zero doubt in my mind you love Everton dearly, you do need to concern yourself with the monetary health of the Club.

How many teams have filled for bankruptcy / administration while their fans sat back and said, "not my money."

This is crazy Andy. Crazy.

Hope the boy comes and scores 30+ goals.

Pat Kelly
82 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:10:31
If Silva were to listen to the fans we'd get no one in by deadline day. Just get them in if good enough and leave the finances to the accountants.
Ian Burns
83 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:11:19
Hi Andy, apologies to everybody on this thread but a quick note to Andy 76 - Alex Elder went to Sammy Todd's wedding and socialised with him during their Burnley days. If you know Sammy, please pass on Alex's fond wishes.

Sorry chaps - now back to this guy Richarlson . . .

Jamie Crowley
84 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:15:32
I just lit my hair on fire and ran around the room in a circle.
Brian Wilkinson
85 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:18:56
For a moment there I thought it said £50 Million.
Lee Whitehead
86 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:23:15

If Silver & Brands think he's worth £50M, then pay the fuckin' money!!!

The RS just paid £70M for a keeper and they're all jumping for joy – we buy a 21-year-old Brazilian winger and we do nothing but fuckin' moan!!!

Steavey Buckley
87 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:24:36
What is Silva's budget? If it's no more than £50 million spent on one player, Everton will have the same team as last season. Just 10 months to get through to next season. Life is very hard being an Evertonian, who might not see the promised land again, when under Howard Kendal.
Tommy Carter
88 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:24:46
This is a complete disaster

Who the hell is sanctioning these signings at Everton Football Club? Since signing Lukaku in 2014, we have made just one good signing. Jordan Pickford.

These are dark days to be an Evertonian. This is never a £50m player in any market. Just as Sigurdsson was never a £52m player.

Who are we fighting to make this signing? Nobody. No other club in their right mind is even considering a bid like this for a player of this profile.

It’s disgusting and it’s wrong.

There is no value at all in signing Premier League players. Why can’t the club see that?

Why are our scouts not able to find the best players in the likes of France, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Portugal even Italy - where it is realistic for our club to have the financial muscle to turn their head and get them to sign

Tim Locke
89 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:27:40
So many better uses of £50m. Free travel for away fans, reduced ticket prices; would all sit miles above buying this guy.

I have nothing against him, but that price tag even in this market is way too much. This has all the hallmarks of a RS signing aka Carroll etc. Half an ok season and costs the earth.
Keep your cash in your packet, and play lookman and the youth. Would take a medium season and better planning than knee jerk purchases which are overpriced.

Michael Kenrick
90 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:28:29
Ash (#59), you ask: Do any business minded folk have an answer why the market doesn't fix this?

It is the market. Supply and demand. A valuation is what someone, anyone is prepared to pay. That's where your premise may be flawed.

How long can footballers keep pretending they are worth astronomically more year on year...

Footballers aren't pretending; they (or at least their agents) know they are 'worth' the valuation because (see above) that's what someone is prepared to pay.

when there is no shortage of them, there never was, there never will be,

No shortage? I think we demonstrated last season there is a huge shortage of players who are actually worth it, and, even when you pay top dollar, no guarantees.

and through global communication you can scout anybody anywhere?

And how's that working out? We supposedly identify them, but they won't come to us because there are more attractive, higher-paying clubs out there.

And there we are, right back to supply and demand. What makes you think that does not apply here? How can you possibly believe there is no shortage of top quality players? Where the hell are they? There certainly weren't all that many on show in Russia...

Jeff Armstrong
91 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:29:40
Bolasie,Martina, Lookman, Walcott not travelled to Portugal with minor ailments hmmm
hope first two are on their way,Lookman doesn’t want to be here so goodbye, Walcott will be surplus if Richarlson signs which is a shame cos EVERYONE would rather it be Mirallas who leaves.
Andrew Ellams
92 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:30:04
Anybody criticising this lads form last season, he was 20 playing his first season outside of South American football and by Christmas he'd been playing for 12 straight months without a break.
Jamie Crowley
93 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:30:38
This is the equivalent of taking the proceeds from the sale of your house, going to Vegas, and putting it all on red at the roulette table.

BIG MONEY, BIG MONEY, C'MON BIG MONEY!

We're "wild west" gambling. Somebody jump on a horse and shoot a gun in the air!

Fuck's sake man. Riverboat gamblers Mosh, Marcel, and Marco!

I'm gobsmacked to steal a phrase. Gob-fucking-smacked.

Opening day, money in the middle, let's fucking do this thing boys!

Buckle up! Giddie up! YEEEHAAAHHH!!!!

Gavin Johnson
94 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:36:21
Walcott won't be going, Jeff. He's a sick note, he's always getting knocks. No surprise he's injured!I I'm concerned about Lookman not going with the rest of the squad. That said, I don't see us selling Lookman and Bolasie, and Bolasie is apparently attracting interest from some London clubs rather surprisingly.

We should resist all interest for Lookman and alternate him with Richarlison and Walcott this season.

Jeff Armstrong
95 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:37:54
Andrew 92nailed it.
he was 20 and faded, cos he couldn’t play for 12 months ...Jesus.
Colin Grierson
96 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:39:35
Well, I reckon this lad is a 'player'. Come and become a legend, Richie, son.
Amit Vithlani
97 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:45:48
“How long can footballers keep pretending they are worth astronomically more year on year when there is no shortage of them, there never was, there never will be, and through global communication you can scout anybody anywhere?”

Let me put it this way. Let us say something like 500m people watch, play or buy EPL related broadcasts, games or merchandise globally. I’d guess another 250m or so watch, play or buy into the Spanish, German and Italian Leagues. A reasonable estimatebwould be that the EU alone probably accounts for 150m of this; whilst Africa, India, rest of Asia probably have a combined 1bn people with access to internet (25% penetration) of which quite easily half could be followers of European leagues. The rest of the world (the Americas) could easily contribute 100m followers.

If you managed to get each person to spend on average just a shade over a pound a month (affordable for 750m people out of a global population of 7.5bn), that is a revenue stream of Ten Billion Pounds.

In the 5 leagues, there are 100 clubs or around 2,500 players. Assume each one earns an average of 2m a year, and 50% of this goes on wages. Agents cream off anothe 500m. The operating costs are not great in comparison - 20% of turnover. So 7.5bn spent.

That leaves a pot of 2.5bn. Take off 500m for miscellaneous expenditure and its a 2bn transfer kitty.

Each summer, about 20% of players change clubs. So that is 500 players. Perhaps half are freebies, loans or bargain basement signings.

So 2bn is spent on 250 players. If the top 10 transfers averaged 50m, it leaves 1.5bn spent on 230 players. Thats an average fee of 6.5m, not unrealistic.

The reality ofcourse is that revenues are derived from broadcasting, sponsorship, merchandising, ticket sales, not by a load of people paying a pound a month.

The cost structures are complex and ofcourse the 750m people globally follow more than a 100 clubs.

But the illustration is still valid: the top leagues have a global revenue base which looks remarkably similar to those of Facebook and Amazon, which earn a lot more Ten Billion Pounds.

There are only a few thousand footballers of which perhaps a few hundred command a fee each summer so, with so much money sloshing around, the fees should not come as a surprise.

As the world gets richer, so will the ability of people to spend 2 pounds a month on football consumption of European leagues; with perhaps 1.5bn people globally consuming the sport.

That is a forty billion pound industry. Transfer spend could easily reach ten billion pounds a season, spread amongst 250-300 players each year. Now you are looking at average transfer fees of 30m, and suddenly Richarlison looks a bargain, whilst a Mbappe could easily be sold for 500m in the next 5 years.

Jim Potter
98 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:46:34
The lad's a good player and extremely promising, but surely some mistake on the fee?!

I thought the silliness and impropriety was finished with last year. Surely we learnt some lessons?

Revenge is sweet and Watford are seeking their pound(s) of flesh.

Jeff Armstrong
99 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:52:14
Sorry Amit 97,that still does not make Richarlson a good buy, today or any other day
Ash Moore
100 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:53:33
I have so much to say and so few words.

Amit, how are you going to get say people in China or Thailand to fork over anything near what you theorise?

On an average cost paid basis... versus streaming.... there is a real ceiling on what subscription television is able to recoup. If you make football expensive and hard to watch... then less people will make the effort or find the money to watch football. That's market forces.

In short, football will eat itself. They say in other sports that salary caps are there to protect owners from themselves. Now I can see why.

I am putting my cards on the table right now: If this is true... then Moshiri is getting his pocket absolutely picked by the parasites of football. And we, as a club, are in deep deep shit.

Andrew Merrick
101 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:55:50
Is this for real? I had started to build some hope and optimism that we were regrouping rebuilding... redesigning the squad and the formal organisation of our club.

If this transfer happens as reported here tonight, then it undermines everything we have been led to believe. God give me strength and god save our club!

Andy Crooks
102 Posted 20/07/2018 at 21:56:31
Ian@ 83, I will pass on Alex's message. I have met Sammy only a few times but he is a good mate of a friend of mine. Please tell him I admired him greatly and had a football card of him.

Back to the thread; all the fretting means nothing. I hope Moshiri has learned and I believe it is early days to doubt our new management team.

Jamie Crowley
103 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:00:11
Sam Hoare
105 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:01:51
To anyone who says ‘it’s not our money’ or some such:

1. It’s the clubs money. There’s only so much so £20m overspend on this lad means £20m less to buy a left back or CB. Or to build a stadium.

2. Paying over the odds on fees and wages is exactly what has got us stuck with deadwood like Bolasie, Klaassen and Schneiderlin who we struggle to shift without taking huge losses.

3. Getting a reputation for overpaying is not helpful for future business.

4. It makes us look either desperate or foolish or both.

David Williams
106 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:07
Welcome, Rico.

You ripped the back out of us for Watford. Welcome, Rico.

Will Jones
107 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:29
This reminds of Martinez signing his friends from Wigan. Alcatraz was a disgrace against D Kiev when he lost every battle, I will remember forever this moment after spending my savings on the trip. This just smacks of giving a boy a familiar toy rather than giving a giving a chessmaster a new idea :(
Rick Tarleton
108 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:04:45
I'd rather keep Lookman and the £50 million.
Tom Bowers
109 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:05:10
I like this lad and I suppose Silva does too.

Watford did sink last season and so did this lad's performances and we can only hope that it was all over the Everton - Silva affair.

If the report is true then I wouldn't take too much notice about the fee as that would not have been released to the press.

Sure he will be worth a bit and transfer fees are at an all-time ridiculous level. The RS goalkeeper fee and the crazy amount for a 33-year-old striker by Juve (even if it is Ronaldo).

Bobby Thomas
110 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:14:04
Well, at least we haven't gone big on a player in their late 20s this time. He's the right age. But there's got to be a bit extra on that fee for taking Silva from them. There has to be. It's insane.

If this transfer doesn't come off, Silva is going to hear about it for the rest of his life. And it will be £50 million that he hears, not £35 million with add-ons.

Remember when Moyes got griefed for years about a £5 million center back in Per Krøldrup that he got £3 million back for!!

Craig Walker
111 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:20:38
My biggest issue with Walsh was that he didn’t scout different leagues and unearth gems but instead signed second-rate Premier League players we all knew about for astronomical fees. Have we learned our lessons? It doesn’t look like we have. Starting to get a bad feeling again. We’re shopping in the bargain basement but paying Harrod’s prices.
Rob Dolby
112 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:25:00
If we had signed a striker or box-to-box midfielder for £50m I would look forward to seeing them play but another winger FFS – it doesn't address any of our issues.
Nicholas Ryan
114 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:26:52
Calm Down ... this one will work; it really will!
Sam Hoare
115 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:06
He just wasn’t that good for Watford. 5 goals and 4 assists in 32 games is worse than Shaqiri. And his pass completion was 64%.

He wasn’t great at Fluminese either.

I guess Silva must have seen something tremendous in him but it looks a huge risk to me.

Tony Abrahams
116 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:15
I heard a rumour that after what had happened to Abramovic, that Usmanov, was pulling out!
Paul Graney
117 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:27:57
Is Theresa May in charge of this deal cos, if true, this is a joke. Nothing is being learnt from the last couple of years, very frustrating.
Michael Lynch
118 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:30:49
On the one hand, I quite like this player. On the other hand, we're the laughing stock of football tonight and it's hard to come up with anything in reply to the piss-taking. Watford signed him on the basis of a good showing in the U20 World Cup. He played a dozen decent games for them and scored half a dozen goals. It's a bit like someone offering us £50m for DCL really.

So many managers seem to go back to their old clubs for the first batch of signings and pay well over the odds. I had hoped Silva was different.

Anthony Dove
119 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:31:46
All I know about him is that he did absolutely nothing in the last two thirds of the season. There may be mitigating circumstances but
£50 million? We surely can't be about to do another Sigurdsson. Total madness.
Jeff Armstrong
120 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:34:23
Tony 116, pulling out of what? Arsenal...he’s not involved at Everton
Jerome Shields
121 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:34:29
I don't believe this transfer has any miles on it.
Tony Everan
122 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:36:39
£40-50M – a joke.

Marco Silva knows all about him and must be massively confident he can deliver. At 21, if he is successful, he has resale value too.

Like Sigurdsson, we are playing way over the odds, more than double what he is worth from what he has shown so far.

Nathan Ford
123 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:37:35
I watched quite a bit of Watford last season when we were linked with Silva and the one player I wanted him to bring with him was Richarlison. The kid on his day is awesome and I trust Silva will get the best out of him. The price hugely over inflated but at the moment they all are.

The main negative of this is I'm pretty sure this deal will coincide with the loss of Lookman. I'm expecting a deal of £35M up front with the rest performance based. Lookman will move on in the following days; in my opinion, he wants the move. Richarlison will live up to the price tag and playing with better players will help and us. Sigurdsson will love the runs of Richarlison and Walcott from the Number 10 position. This will be a good signing.

James Hopper
124 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:38:22
Dear Prof. Barrett-Baxendale,

What the actual fuck?!

Yours sincerely,

Those who collectively spend ~£30m a season on match tickets alone.

Jeff Armstrong
125 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:39:52
Not good for Silva this, unearthed him for Watford at £12 million, now goes back for him at £50 million after 10 good games, panicking already and the season hasn't started,
Tony Abrahams
126 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:42:12
Fluminese are getting 10% of this transfer Sam, and he only joined Watford, instead of Ajax, because of Silva?

I thought he was very good in the game at Goodison, in a game when I think Jonjoe Kenny, also showed that he has a big career in front of him?

Quick, strong and skilful, it was only one game, but he was also very calm (only v.good players have this quality imo) when he got the penalty at the end of this game, and although it's a massive fee, I think Everton, have just signed a player with massive potential?

Of course it might only be potential, (isn't it always). but this kid has come from nothing, he's had a rough, tough upbringing, and the only thing that might stop him being a top player, is either a serous injury, or his new found wealth taking over his life?

Fraser Auld
127 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:43:01
What's the point in taking a stance on Tierney (at half the price) that we don't want to over pay and then getting fleeced here? It doesn't make any sense.
Michael Lynch
128 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:46:07
Okay, I'm over it now. Fuck it, we've entrusted Silva and Brands with the club, so we have to back them. That's the way it works and that's the way it should always work. If it's a fuck-up, then the fuck-up was appointing the two of them. And if it really is a fuck-up, one or both of them will be out the door by the end of the season.

Anyway, you never know, someone might come in and outbid us with a £60m offer for the lad.

Looking forward to seeing him at Goodison on August 18th. With Walcott and RIcharlison, we'll have bags of pace and I really don't think any defence is going to relish having those two running at them.

We're going to win the fucking lot.

Tony Everan
129 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:46:24
Is the £50M made up of cash plus one of our players? Maybe that's how they are arriving at such a figure. They may be taking Bolasie.
John Raftery
130 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:49:34
To say the £50m fee represents a major gamble by the club must be the understatement of the year. We desperately need new players and this smacks of desperation.
Bill Gienapp
131 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:54:01
Fee aside, I actually think Richarlison would be an excellent addition. But if we splurge 50-million and end up losing Lookman, who, IMO, has just as high a ceiling... well that ends up looking like a pretty questionable bit of business.
Chris Gould
132 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:56:32
If this is true then I would imagine Brands and Silva have done their due diligence. Brands has years of experience and is clearly nobody's fool.
He will know which players are likely to leave and for how much, and they may well already know exactly who is coming in and how much they will cost. They will also be aware of their budget and won't be as naive as some on here seem to think when judging values of players.
This isn't a player that we've just scouted a couple of times, Silva has spent months with this kid and will know exactly how good he is and how good he may become.
In a few seasons time 100-150 million will be the going rate for top players. Brands and Silva obviously see a top player in Richarlison. If we pay 35 million now and then 15 million over 2-3 years, we'll then sell him for 3 times as much when he's fully developed.
All transfers are a gamble, but Silva knows everything about this kid. Surely that should leave us all a little more confident that he'll come good?
We're over paying because Watford need to look and feel like they've got one over on us. Obviously Brands feels that we'll have the last laugh
Tony Abrahams
133 Posted 20/07/2018 at 22:59:35
just like Phillip Green wasn't involved in Everton maybe Jeff, and if a manager wants a certain player, then I don't see that as panicking, more that he must think a lot of the kid, if he's prepared to put his own neck on the block, instead of going with what many people might call safer options?

Richarlson is overpriced, but its showing me that we are getting a manager who isn't scared of taking risks, and hopefully this bravery, is a sign of things to come from his team I hope?

Lee Paige
134 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:05:05
That goal he scored when wrong footing our Pickford was pure class. He is raw but he does have a lot of pace and skill, I still don’t like the price but give me him over Bolasie or Mirallas any day of the week!
Don Alexander
135 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:07:14
Salah, Mane and Firmino were bought for less than the figures being contended for this lad. Seems to me there's still a misguided fool involved in our transfers.
Darren Murphy
136 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:09:45
Oh my!

He's worth double that...

Lee Paige
137 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:10:28
Salah, Mane and Firmino would not come to Everton for the money the RS paid unfortunately.
Andy Williams
138 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:16:16
Jeff #70 he has an excellent left foot apparently. He is a tank, very strong defensively and good in the air. Not your average winger. Last season he started 26 league games (sub in 6) and scored 5 and assisted 4. He was only 20 and playing surrounded by bang average players. Nobody has any clue about the fee and what it involves. We know the fee will be disgusting as all fees are disgusting. But IcantI wait to see him playing for us.
Mark Pringle
139 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:16:47
Can't believe how much crazy reaction there is to a figure that no one knows is accurate, is almost certainly inflated and will 100% inc add ons and wages, and a golden handshake for silva compo and even then wont be £50m. It's like saying the shite have just paid £100m for a goalie inc wages. The manager wants the player, end of story.
Plus with regards to Lookman, yes he has potential, yes I'd rather he stayed but if he's told the club he wants to go then what can they do apart from get the best price possible and offset it against his fee.
Fran Mitchell
140 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:26:07
We have no idea what the fee is, and any fee will of course be loaded with clauses and add-ons.

I think he is a quality player who would be an excellent option as central attacker (false 9 akin to Firmino), while also offering options out wide or behind the striker.

He is young and will get better.

Eddie Dunn
141 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:26:38
Everyone stop getting your knickers in a twist.
This must simply be bullshit. The WC is just over and we fans are desperate for some transfer news.
The figures are surely wrong, even if we are interested.
As for Andy Crooks not being bothered about Moshiri's money, - don't worry about it..we haven't actually seen it yet!
It's all just sitting there insuring us against our loans.
If we do have any cash to spend, it will be from the TV money.
Michael Lynch
142 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:28:15
He's an upgrade on Lookman and Mirallas anyway. Stronger than the former, younger than the latter, given the choice I'd have Richarlison and bin the other two off if needs be.

I'm guessing Silva was always planning to go back for Richarlison, but he needed to have a good look at what was available to him wide left in the Everton squad. Could well be that Lookman's been giving it the titty lip since Leipzig so that tipped the balance for Silva and he's made his move.

Realistically it's a £40m deal at the most, with add ons for us winning the World Cup and building a stadium on Mars etc.

So once the laughter has died down on Twitter, let's look forward to what we've all been asking for - an exciting new addition, and a forward line that's starting to take shape.

Bobby Thomas
143 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:31:04
On the Lookman situation I'm hoping we are looking to deal out Bolasie and Mirallas, leaving Walcott, Lookman and the likely new boy as wide options.

I would be very happy with that. However the Leipzig link just won't go away.

John Kavanagh
144 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:32:42
We are beginning to look like the footballing equivalent of Mel Brooks' 'The Producers', with a buy high, sell low strategy designed to deliver a sure fire failure.

Last season we were only a laughing stock. I fear that this season we could end up being the subject of condescending pity. Lookman's alleged thigh injury looks like a lie to explain his absence while finalising a £12 million transfer to RB, while we put the finishing touches to a £35 to £50 million deal for a player who is no better based on his record for the Z Cars Thieves.

We are being taken to the cleaners in the transfer market dealing with clubs we should not even be speaking to.

Kase Chow
145 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:35:15
Michael #142

Very sensible comment Sir

Paul Birmingham
146 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:41:47
I hope this is media BS, but if it’s true then, what’s the so called new structure doing? A modern day Alan Bailey without the locks.. it’s despicable, unless MS had some magic spin on this lad.

Well and truly were are setting ourselves up for another season of Maverickness. Does MS hopefully! Have a insight no one else does, on this lad?

Looks like some interesting days ahead, if this does happen.

Andy Williams
147 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:46:29
Kase# 145. Exactly ! Let's get him banned!
Darryl Ritchie
148 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:52:10
Until the player is standing at Finch Farm, holding a blue shirt in front of himself, with the manager standing next to him, it's all speculation.

Don't have a fit until something actually happens... and don't flip out if it does happen, because there's nothing we can do about it.

Paul Birmingham
149 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:53:19
This could be the Garden of Eden or Continuation of The Omen, year 24: The Curse, maintains..

Joking aside, it's times to now as a club to face reality, but stay patient and be calm.. after the worst period in our history and the management of the club has in my view been the worst. It must get better soon? As Evertonians we know,

Hopefully soon Glory Days, will return, ie, do the RS, Good style at our old ground, play Chelsea and Arsenal off the park, away... and win. We did it in the 80s.

Here's to a good season for Evertonians.

Paul Birmingham
150 Posted 20/07/2018 at 23:55:07
Darryl, zackly.
Gavin Johnson
151 Posted 20/07/2018 at 00:01:10
He looks good on YouTube.
Laurie Hartley
152 Posted 21/07/2018 at 00:22:06
Jamie (#103) – I'll have a go; it can't be that hard.
Graham Hammond
153 Posted 21/07/2018 at 00:55:06
I hope that any money we do spend does actually go on players that have a resale value. I am not against Richarlison coming in as such but feel that, first and foremost, we need to be splashing the serious cash on a quality centre-back(s).

I worry that the Richarlison deal is being pushed through because Ademola Lookman is hell-bent on leaving the club which gave him little playing minutes. I hope at the end of this window our 'laughing stock' reputation in the transfer market has not grown but diminished; things have not started well for me.

Gordon Crawford
154 Posted 21/07/2018 at 01:31:53
£50m for a decent player would be financial suicide. There has got to be better options out there than this guy. I really hope we don't throw away more money this season.
Danny Broderick
155 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:10:12
I thought we brought in a Director of Football so we could pick these players up for £11 million from Fluminense. As opposed to £50 million when they are already in the Premier League!
Steve Ferns
156 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:25:26
That's the Steve Walsh model of DoF being a scout, Danny. Brands is meant to act as a kind of quality control as well as ensuring the player can be effective for the next manager, if Silva departs early.

What the expensive transfer tells us, is that Brands either also really rates this kid or he is fully behind Silva.

The fee does seem very high and Silva will know the knock on effect of such a fee on the rest of our budget. We have to be patient and trust his judgement. There's no doubt the kid's a player, it's just the fee that concerns us.

Steve Brown
157 Posted 21/07/2018 at 02:27:49
We have learned nothing from thr debacle of last season. There is value to be had in the transfer market and it is Brand's job to find it.
Justin Doone
158 Posted 21/07/2018 at 03:44:40
Value for money. What?!?!

Yes I agree the £50m transfer fee appears to be ridiculous but we can only 'compare the market' for Everton.

£45m on Sigurdsson was at least twice his value considering age, ability, what we needed at the time and other transfers.

£30m Pickford, about £10m too much at the time and again wasn't a key position needed to be filled.

£20m Keane a little expensive but it was a position we needed to strengthen. Although I haven't changed my mind that Holgate is a better player.

£50m Ricky is young, fast, skilful, mobile and exciting. He's exactly what we need. A direct forward who can run with the ball on a breakaway or take defenders on using not just pace (Walcott and Bollasie head down run fast) but with genuine skill and vision be it out wide or more centrally.

The nearest player we have to him is Mirallas only he's far better in every department. Hopefully with the right attitude to keep progressing.

Compared to last season's buys he's definitely worth it. Over 5 years it's nothing or if he's world-class we will end up selling him for a profit. I hope he'll prove to be the first of many 'proper footballers we get over the next few years.

I'm a fan of Lookman but he's not in Ricky's league. Ability he's got, application and attitude remains a doubt. I've much more time for Calvert-Lewin he impressed me a lot last season for different managers in different roles.

Gavin Johnson
159 Posted 21/07/2018 at 03:53:29
Justin, I don't agree we paid too much for Pickford. He looks an absolute bargain after the RS paid nearly £70m for that keeper with the ladies name.
Gary Fenton
160 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:24:45
No thanks; at that price, offer £25 million. Watford are just taking the piss... still angry at us for Silva leaving, sure they can find two players for the £50 million.

Pull your fingers out, Everton!!! COYB

Antony Schorah
161 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:40:23
Sounds about right to me, if a complete package. £20 to £25 mill in wages depending on the contract length and the rest on transfer fee.
Marcus Choo
162 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:50:44
On the subject of crazy transfers, I'm just reading that our neighbours have sold their 4th choice keeper for £12.5 million! I had never even heard of him prior to them signing Allison.

To put that in perspective, our first choice Pickford was £30 million from Sunderland. First choice mind you...

Why don't we ever get that much money for our reserves etc? That guy apparently just made 2 or 3 appearances over 5 years!

Denver Daniels
163 Posted 21/07/2018 at 05:59:15
It's probably closer to £35M plus add-ons. Not sure if he's worth that much but just having a look at the fees other Premier League clubs have spent so far, it seems there or thereabouts. Real Madrid just spent close to €40M on an 18-year-old kid straight from Brazil today.

We have to realise top players don't necessarily want to come to us, even if we can afford to buy them. So we either have to take risks and sign no-names for not so much or go for more established players who are not big names – even if it means paying what seems like ridiculous money.

If this was just Silva, I'd be worried, but surely Brands would have had a big say so I'm happy to trust their judgement.

Justin Doone
164 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:01:55
I tend to make quick judgement on players and I'm not often wrong, although that's my own opinion.

Pickford's improving, he was a good goalkeeper and has continued to improve which is even more pleasing. It's just, at the time, £30M was very questionable but he's proved to be our best summer 2017 buy.

I didn't even comment on Klaassen simply because we can all see he's useless in the Premier League and never going to be a commanding central midfielder Silva demands. Our worst buy from last year and needs flogging. Another I was proven right on.

We needed top class central defender, central midfielder, forward and left-back. This would be the forward; Robinson appears to be emerging as the left-back, so I think two more and we are done.

However, to compare managers, wouldn't it be good to see what Silva can get out of Sam's team? Very different styles of play and attitude but it may quickly highlight if Silva really is the man to move us forward, if he's that good a coach.

I don't like to comment on other teams but I'm afraid on the other side of the park a team has bought top class players in the positions they needed in the last 7 months: centre-back and goalkeeper. I only hope the divas will fall out and unsettle them.

David Chait
166 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:08:30
I guess you got to be careful what you ask for. My wish this transfer season was 3 mega players in. Top class even if expensive.

I certainly didn't foresee a chap who hasn't proved squat yet improved his value with a few good displays... it's like trying to buy off Chelsea's B side!

Saying that,the biggest issue we face is whether these players would come to us at this stage. If we had paid £15M for him, I'm not sure it would have been a statement enough for the fans. £35M certainly is a big show of faith and, to me, Marco is gambling his reputation on it! He must certainly believe.

David Chait
167 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:15:43
Marcus (#162), that's a question I have pondered a lot... hence my Chelsea B chirp couple posts ago.

My take is that “top” teams players come with a perceived value. “If he played for them lot or was even just around the squad he must be good”. Take Loftus-Cheek... I'm sorry but the guy is pants compared to Barkley. Yet would probably cost more than our original price!

What really bugs me is the mark-up players get after one season... and sometimes an average one. This one clearly takes the cake.

I'm in the minority but I wanted the left-side sorted and a striker. left-back, left-wing, and striker. I'll live with our centre-backs for another season... so position 1 ticked.

Mark Tanton
168 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:48:34
Look out for Stage 2 of what will become a ‘saga' soon.

Stage 2 is “deal expected to be announced by beginning of week. Then we move to “Deal now expected by weekend.”

Stage 3 is news of a snag. This is followed by “why can't we sign anyone in quick time, this is so predictable – look at the business Liverpool/Spurs are doing.” And “fuck me, even Huddersfield can tie up their targets – what is wrong?”

Stage 4 will be rumours it's about money – “sack the greedy twat off.”

Stage 5 will be a premature news that it has fallen through. “Well thank God for that, he would have been an expensive waste of space”.

Stage 6 is him photographed in Everton shirt after stories of agents holding it all up. “Made up, knew he'd sign. He's gonna be class!”

Paul Traill
169 Posted 21/07/2018 at 06:49:11
I'm not sure we need to be forking out unless we're offloading quite a few. We need to clear the decks. Well too much deadwood lying around.
I'd be getting rid of these:

Williams
Bolasie
Sandro
Mirallas
Martina
Klaassen
Besic

We could probably also shelve:

Pennington
Browning
Galloway

And promote youth. We have:

Davies
Calvert-Lewin
Baningime
Holgate
Kenny

Maybe let's also see what these are made of:

Robinson
Dowell
Connolly

We can then start building where appropriate. Priority should be a new centre back to replace Jagielka long term, and let's see if Robinson is capable of stepping up to replace Baines.

I think this first team is pretty good:

Pickford, Baines, Keane, Jagielka, Coleman, Gueye, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Lookman, Sigurdsson, Tosun

Bench from:
Stekelenberg, Kenny, Robinson, Holgate, Vlasic, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse, Dowell, McCarthy, Baningime.

If we are getting rid of some/all of the ones mentioned then I'm all up for adding Richarlison and a couple more to add quality to the squad, but we really need to be trimming the fat surely?

Fred Smith
170 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:10:59
If he scores 20 goals this season, he will be linked with £100+ million moves next summer. Mr Silva thinks he's worth it; so too Mr Brands... so I'm backing their judgment.
Mark Boullé
171 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:24:28
Apologies if somebody already said this – I've not had time to read every comment – but what worries me about this deal, if true, is the apparent laziness...

We appoint a respected DoF, renowned (so we are told) for good South American scouting links. He brings a successful worldwide scouting network with him. Yet what do we do? Bid for a player Silva managed last season!

There must surely be players out there as good, if not better, than Richarlison, available for a fraction of the price. I can't stand the way managers (not just Silva) lazily go back for players they already know instead of finding new ones!

What next, Watford's left back for £25m...?!

Scout, find bargains, try harder!

Darren Hind
172 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:24:40
After having what feels like a permanent downer on Everton managers, I am desperate to see Silva blow my reservations away. But Jamie @84 is nailing this for me.

This report looks for all the world like it has legs, but surely the reported fee is a mistake?

Ash Moore
173 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:33:02
I am convinced that Moshiri is absolutely getting fleeced. This reminds me so much of the Bent transfer to Villa, another transaction that doesn't pass the all-important smell test.

Unfortunately, we all know how dirty a game football is. And one thing I've learnt in my working life is that – when something doesn't make sense or appears a bit off – you follow the money.

Bungs, kickbacks, brown paper envelopes, payoffs, greenmail, payola...whatever you call it, the leeches are having a picnic. Someone at Everton – or some group – is doing very very well out of us paying astro-money for potential, the unproven and in many cases out and out dross.

I am very very concerned, if I'm right we are on borrowed time. Moshiri works out he's having his pocket picked, calls in his loans and walks... what do we do then? It is not Moshiri money. It's the club that stands behind these deals, and the club that will be wound up before Moshiri risks his own personal fortune. Yes he will lose some dough in this scenario, burn his fingers. But he won't be insolvent, with massive debts, a squad not worth a fraction of the purchase price, and a fan base worse off than ever.

There is no advantage to overpaying for this lad. We are bidding against nobody. Silva's personality, presence and our wage structure should surely have been enough to get him here without paying crazy money. Someone rightly compared this to being offered £50M for Calvert-Lewin. This stinks to high heaven. What am I missing?

Amit Vithlani
174 Posted 21/07/2018 at 07:56:22
"Amit, how are you going to get say people in China or Thailand to fork over anything near what you theorise?"

Ash, it is true I am theorising, and I did so to answer your question.

The European Leagues are showing consumption trends remarkably similar to social media and online platforms like Facebook and Amazon. The cost of internet access in China and Thailand has dropped dramatically so people can watch, buy or participate on line.

If you use your example of Asia, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that you could get one in 7 people to spend a pound a month on football consumption of some kind for them selves or their families. That is 500m spending £6 billion.

My point is the game is consumed globally and people participate not just by watching, but by betting, buying or participating which leads to broadcasters, sponsors and merchandisers spending more and more. That expenditure they make can be recouped by charging a pound a month to 15% of the population.

Like you, I thought football would eat itself, as I thought Sky would implode and European broadcasters would, Kirsch style, similarly collapse.

Then I saw how much overseas betting and broadcasting firms were spending on rights. I saw how Middle East and Chinese owners were scrambling to buy football clubs. And I watched the Premier League fan zone phon- in program, where every single day young men and women from Africa and Asia were phoning in via Skype to comment on the Premier League wearing Man United, Man City and Liverpool jerseys.

I looked at what Facebook and Amazon were reporting as their overseas revenues.

This is global product consumed by hundreds of millions contributing a tiny share, and so the football industry in Europe will dwarf anything there is anywhere else in the world.

This revenue pot running into tens of billions is spread amongst 100 clubs at maximum, which choose to retain about 2,500 players or so in total.

A few hundred move each year, and we know European transfers already average a billion pounds and is growing. So the average transfer fee is spiralling.

The US sports which put salary caps have a finite market. There is no mass global appeal except for perhaps the NBA but, even then, European football dwarfs demand. They know their revenue streams lack growth potential and they have to husband their costs.

If I was a betting man, I would wager you that Everton will spend £100M on a transfer within the next 5 years.

I do not say I like it, or whether or not Richarlison is worth it. But I will say that when reserve goal keepers from Liverpool and Man City are going for a combined £25M, then his fee will look a comparative bargain.

It is a reality we have to accept. It is being driven by a global love affair for the game, which, thanks to increasing internet penetration all over the world, can be followed by hundreds of millions of people.

Edit: I would have preferred if we spent this type of money acquiring a proven centre-forward and a good left-back. I would prefer if the club husbanded their costs and used better organisation and coaching to improve results. But the question was around the sanity of transfer fees and, in my mind at least, I can see why even average players are commanding astronomical fees. It is not a mania, but the product of billions of pounds of revenues pouring in, and actually growing year on year.

Stewart Lowe
175 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:04:21
This lad is going to be great guys, give him a chance and stop the moaning about us being ripped off, it's annoying. It's not mine or your money. If they suddenly put ticket prices up £20 per game, you could probably argue that it was, but they haven't.

I've heard and read enough about Brands and Silva to believe that they are serious football men that really know their business. Who cares if one of the add-ons to this fee is a sweetener to Watford? It's not our money and Moshiri can obviously afford it.

When Silva brought in this player last season, nobody had ever heard of him and he had just turned 20. Lots of South Americans fail in the Premier League but this lad didn't. So he came to a league in which many other seasoned players have failed. It's the best league in the world.

He had come from a full Brazilian season to the Under 20s World Cup, and then straight to Watford without a break. He played so well in the first 3 months that Lineker on MotD and all the other pundits were drooling every week at his performances because he wasn't just good, he was outstanding. I kept thinking: Why didn't Walsh find him?

Then Everton unsettle Silva with our advances and his form goes downhill from there. I believe there was a lot of truth in Silva asking Watford players if they wanted to join him at Everton, whilst he was Watford Manager, and I believe Richarlison was one of them. So stop moaning about the 4 months he wasn't as good because there are mitigating circumstances for that.

This guy is very good. Richarlison is tall, strong, technically excellent. His passing is excellent also, not to mention his pace. Trust me, you will be salivating at his football 3-4 months from now once he is bedded in. We have had a lot to moan about in the last 3-4 years so come on guys, every last one of you should get behind every player that walks into Finch Farm, because Silva has a system and method; he doesn't scattergun buy.

Ash Moore
176 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:22:06
Thank you, Amit, for explaining things in terms I understand. Your numbers actually add up and make sense. I see your logic and thank you for it's elegance.

Of course, you're assuming a consistent take-up of football etc. but I suppose that's more than fair.

I suspect that the bubble will inflate a great deal more but I still think it will eat itself eventually. I don't think football is replacing fans in the Western markets as fast as it is shedding them. I see less young faces in the crowd at the match, hear less young voices on here, don't often see lads kicking a ball around.

This is the first generation who can amuse themselves. Think about that, our upbringing, if you're 25 or older that is, our upbringing we had computer games and television. But games cost money, and Tom and Jerry was only on the telly when it was on the telly. I'm not sure if, like my lad, I could play these exciting online games with my mates for nix, or watch any TVshow ever made at any time – I'm not sure I'd have all that time for football either.

That's the challenge football faces. The universal appeal of football is it only needs something round to play, as opposed to buying a tennis racquet or a cricket bat or a gridiron helmet. There's no barriers for football.

But we now live in a world where smartphone ownership is ubiquitous, and entertainment technology is incredibly individualised. Kids in Brazil now don't need to kick oranges around a la Pele to pass the time, not if they've got an iPhone or an Xbox because they play Fortnite with their mates.

Yeah, football... It will eat itself, given enough time and food. And I'd bet in my lifetime too.

Peter Lee
177 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:29:25
Priorities all wrong. We have been crying out for pace and balance in the back two for years. Since Distin left in fact.

A sedentary back four, the full backs can't get too far forward too quickly with supertankers between them, has meant we have been unable to press, unable to move forward as a unit and left forwards isolated for long spells.

Talk about wingers, midfield and full-backs must surely wait until we sort out two centre-backs, at least one with a left foot.

Failure to do this is likely to give us more of the same from last December onwards.

I fear another season of desperation lies ahead.

Amit Vithlani
178 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:33:33
You may be right, Ash, although time frame is key. If your life time is 50 years, certainly it's quite possible that a new fad will elbow football out of the way.

But, for the next decade, I wager you we are headed for explosive growth. Also, your point on Smartphones is an excellent one.

Ash Moore
179 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:36:17
Have to agree with Peter Lee as well. Watching Keane turn around reminds me of the QEII in a harbour analogy. And Williams is even slower!
But if they've spent £50 million on this lad, there's plenty left for the defensive additions we need. That much is certain.

I reckon 40 years, Amit, and you're obviously almost certainly spot on about the next decade's growth. But yeah, within 20 years, almost every child on earth will grow up with a highly individualised personal media device. Football doesn't offer the sort of instant gratification this generation demands and expects.

This generation of children, at least in the Western countries, is the very first that doesn't have to be bored. I despair of my son's attention span; he's always fiddling with his phone or iPad. But all his friends are identical. For them, being amused instantly is always just a click of the button away.

They don't see a reason to be even be bored for a second, because they can amuse themselves in a second.

I don't see how football can ultimately compete. 40 years.

Denis Richardson
180 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:39:32
I just hope the fee is hype as £50m is an awful lot of money, especially to pay for someone with one season in the Premier League under his belt, no matter how much potential.

I certainly would not have made a right winger our priority but we have a long way till the end of August so hope we get in the much needed defensive reinforcements. (And shift a couple too.)

£50m!!! Fook me. We could have gotten Shaqiri and Arnautavic (combined) for less!

Dave Evans
181 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:40:05
Stewart @175 – Great post. Among the smell of burning hair, some sanity.
Tony Everan
182 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:46:23
Peter (#177),

I agree, the priority is left-back and centre-back, Digne or Tierney and Mina would be great business. I am sure Brands is fully aware of it and it will be sorted. I don't think he is about to do a ‘Walsh' and mess the bread and butter stuff up.

With regards to Richarlison, a new manager has to be backed. Silva will want one or two players he knows and is confident about. It is a good sign that Silva is backing Richarlison. He is 21, Silva thinks he can help develop him into a world-class player, for Everton! I am going to trust him, £50M is ridiculous, but this is Premier League reality.

Signing him will give something extra to Silva's motivation and desire, on top of what is evidently already there. A new manager has to be backed, his judgement has to be trusted, or why bother hiring him? I think Richarlison will be an exciting player for us.

It is a gamble for sure... but, with Silva's extensive knowledge of the player, it is definitely an educated gamble. In three years time, we could be talking about a £100M player.

I am excited about his arrival.

Denis Richardson
183 Posted 21/07/2018 at 08:47:57
Stewart 175,

If we sign him (not actually happened yet) everyone on here will back him. However, £50M is a lot of money for someone who cost £11M 12 months ago.

Also, the ‘it's not my money' line is a bit odd, I find. The more we pay (potentially overpay) for one player, the less we presumably have to spend on others. I hope he takes the roof off at Goodison Park but, right now, our defence is very old and very slow. Stopping goals being scored should be a high priority, possibly higher than adding to the ever-growing collection of wingers we have. I can imagine a lot of strikers will be licking their lips at the thought of playing against the likes of Williams, Keane and Jagielka (almost 36).

Time will tell but it does matter how much we spend as our transfer kitty is not infinite.

Tony Everan
185 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:02:01
As an aside, most would agree left-back is a priority over a striker. Striker imminent thread = 170 posts; left-back imminent thread = 17 posts.

Contentious fee, I know, but it shows which one gets the juices flowing.

Tony Abrahams
186 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:05:39
Peter Lee, whilst I agree with what you say, I also agree with Stewart Love, and this is the type of transfer that actually gives me hope.

The next few weeks are going to be very telling but I've got a good feeling for once because I also feel that Silva has got both a method and a system which is something I hope we all find out very soon.

Fuckin' hell, Koeman let Everton sign Sigurdsson for £45 million and he never even played him in his proper position which will surely now happen if we sign this kid.

Geoff Lambert
187 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:08:20
Hopefully the first of a few big-money signings coming our way before the close of the window.

I don't care how much we pay for players, we need to trust Silva and Brands, give them time to get the players they want, then let's see what happens.

Derek Taylor
188 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:08:20
Returning from holiday, my heart sank at the news that the best our grand new management team could come up with was a 'Silva Old Boy' from Watford and that at an outrageous fee to boot!

The shadow of Martinez clearly hangs over us as the folly of signing 'old' players as a comfort blanket repeats itself. Most of us would have expected more imagination from the new gaffers than that.

Mind you, if Moshiriy and Kenwright sanction this move, they will only add to the growing belief that they have learned nothing from last year's debacle and have managed to employ another couple of clueless conmen – just as they did before!

Geoffrey Williams
189 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:17:04
£50M? God, I despair at Everton's transfer policy.
David Ellis
190 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:18:24
I thought we overpaid for Pickford. Turns out we didn't. £35m plus add-ons. He's only 21. Worked with Silva before. Better than what we currently have.

I'm still only half-convinced!

Hugh Jenkins
191 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:21:26
Denis (#180). Unfortunately, this year we do not have until the end of August.

The season starts on August 11th for the Premier League and the transfer window for players coming in closes, I believe, on August the 9th (but it could be the 10th). Either way, it closes before the season starts.

At best, therefore, we, and all the other clubs in the UK, have only a further 19 / 20 days from today to complete our incoming transfer business.

Players can, apparently, still be transferred out to overseas clubs until the end of the traditional summer transfer window.

Ronald Hutcheson
192 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:21:50
I woke up thinking the nightmare of us spending £50 million on a mediocre player from Watford was over. I just don't get Everton at all. This and last season shows we have the cash but choose to spend it on normal players from the Premier League; we never looked abroad once.

People say "Oh but we're not in Europe etc." Well, Man City weren't a few years back... Richarlison is hardly a catch. Money talks and we clearly have it and to spend it on a Watford player who had 12 good games is ridiculous.

Salah, £40 million; Willian, £50 million... Richarlison, £50 MILLION?!?! Mental. No wonder us Evertonians love a drink. We have clearly learnt nothing from last season. I really hope I'm proved wrong with this one but I'm not holding my breath.

Derek Taylor
193 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:23:27
Just featured on Sky Sports. 28 games for Watford – five goals and five assists. Cries when Silva hauls him off.

What a bargain for 50 mega large ones!

Steve Ferns
194 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:24:01
Derek, I pointed out several times that Silva always signed his old players. He's done so every time he's changed clubs. But please note that he's not signing Evandro for the third or fourth time, he's signing a player we didn't think we could sign unless we paid an exorbitant fee. Well here we are paying an exorbitant fee.

Surely we should trust Silva knows what he's doing and Brands has rubber-stamped it. Why would Silva waste what little money he has to spend on Richarlison unless he believes he is that good?

Let's hope the lad improves on the form he showed with Silva at Watford and doesn't regress to the form he showed after Silva left Watford. Also note the lad used to be a central striker before Silva played him on the left. Maybe that's where he will play?

Mal van Schaick
195 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:30:13
£20M tops and maybe another Barkley. Loses ball high up the pitch and doesn't have the legs to chase back. Definitely not £50M.

Swap Bolaisie and Mirallas for him, saving cash on wages and keeping cash for other transfers.

Dave Abrahams
196 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:38:36
Taken in isolation, this transfer doesn't impress me. Never mind the fee, but let's see what happens in the rest of the transfer window. I'm expecting M&M to do a lot better than the previous regimes, so if they sign more players in the positions we are expecting them to, then we could be satisfied.

With Richarlison, he is still only a potential great player. I can't place him, in my mind, what sort of player he is.

I know how much of a potentially great player Lookman is because it shows, to me at least. I hope Everton are keeping him.

The fee for the Watford player will surely be explained, it can't be as much as quoted – that just doesn't make sense. Patience is needed, as The Esk asked for on another thread.

James Hughes
197 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:42:01
it's on the BBC Breakfast News now! My opinion is that is massively over-priced for an average player. My conspiracy theory is that the figure is inflated to make Watford happy after the dispute over Silva.
Clive Rogers
198 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:44:33
Mal (#195), there is no chance Watford would want Bolasie and Mirallas. We are stuck with them.
Steve Ferns
199 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:44:35
The compensation thing went very quiet, James. There could easily be a substantial amount buried into it. If we were fined £10M, we'd have to pay it on one go. If we make the £10M part of the transfer fee, we can stagger the payments. Maybe that's what's happening. Who knows? And £10M is just a nice round number — not what I think we would pay.
Danny O'Neill
200 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:46:38
Possibility that the exaggerated fee factors in appeasement for the Silva saga?
Simon Smith
201 Posted 21/07/2018 at 09:48:11
I love the Football Manager mentality of some people on here: “Just give Watford our crap players in exchange for their best player!” — Yes, because of course that's how it works.

For those of you moaning about the fee, would you rather us not buy anyone and just have the money sat in the bank???? Because we will all get enjoyment and entertainment from that...

Stop worrying about fees... we can do nothing about them and it's all relative anyway!

Mike Powell
202 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:07:28
Why are you all moaning about the price? Is it coming out off your pocket? I don't care how much he cost – just get him signed.

Oh and another thing... don't believe what they say in the papers; you should know that by now.

Ray Smith
203 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:17:33
Simon (#201),

Well said.

We don't actually know the facts of the deal, so how can we comment/moan about the fee?

Until then, we have to trust M+M and DBB to have thought this through before going ahead.

MB + DBB have been hired to do a job and for me, just let them get on with doing that job. I trust them to do what they were hired to do.

Do you honestly think that they would throw money away? It's easy to say wait and see, but that's how it is.

I also appreciate that TW is a forum to air your views one way or the other, but guys – let's have some facts then moan/complain as much as you wish.

Peter Howard
204 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:26:34
Derek (#193)

It wasn't Silva who hauled him off — it was his successor.

James Marshall
205 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:40:34
So in recent days everyone is moaning we aren't buying anyone, then when we possibly are it's too much money. The deal is reportedly £35M plus add-ons which when you look at other deals going on in the Premier League, seems like a fair price in this market.

Silva & Brands identified their targets then the cub tries to buy them – remember, we don't set the price, we just set the targets and see if can happen. Watford set the price, so we either try to buy the target player as set out by Silva & Brands, or we ignore their targets and Silva & Brands are then left high & dry.

You can't have it both ways.

Steve Ferns
206 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:41:17
True James.
James Marshall
207 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:48:00
People have also spoken about players like Shaqiri and why we weren't in for him — but, had we been in for him, they would all have complained we were continuing the trend of buying players from relegated teams.

It seems to me that people are often unhappy whether we go bargain basement or high price players. Again, you can't have it both ways.

Dave Williams
208 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:54:46
What a cracking post, Stuart (#175).

So good to read positivity and not without justification too. There is far too much negativity around and this should be greeted as good news.

Steve Ferns
209 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:04:22
James, if Shaquiri came here instead of the RS, then people would have been ambivalent over it. Personally, I think he's a mediocre player who is capable of top-class moments. Those are not enough and too many games for Stoke he was missing. I'm glad we didn't sign him and I think he'll just be another Charlie Adam.

We need to sign world-class players, or players who can be world-class. We can't sign the former, so let's try for the latter. Richarlison could be just that. Shaquiri will never be close to that.

James Marshall
210 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:06:35
I agree entirely, Steve – my view on Shaqiri is identical to yours.

I also agree, we need to be looking at players like Richarlison, and paying whatever it takes to buy them. I'm all for this type of signing.

Paul Mackay
211 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:09:09
One player who we haven't been linked with but I see is being touted to Spurs is Grealish, for £40M.

I've seen more of him passed out on the pavements of Ibiza than I have seen him play football. Has anyone seen him actually play a bit?
Read a few stories saying he had a good season for Aston Villa who made the playoffs last season.

Dermot Byrne
212 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:09:25
If it happens, it will be for an undisclosed fee and folks can continue to wonder. For myself, this has the whiff of Aaron Banks.

He appears to have potential and isn't that what we want. As for the fee, guess we chose whether to waste time guessing it not.

Shane Corcoran
213 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:15:16
Paul, I saw him in two of the three playoff games and he's improved a lot. Everything went through him. He draws players in and gains a lot of frees.

He dithered over what country he wanted to play for so this transfer could go right to the wire.

Michael Lynch
214 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:18:35
I'm with Steve @209 and James @210 on this one. I'd rather be signing Richarlison than Shaquiri, even at three times the price the RS have paid for the fat little knobhead who clearly can't make a smart decision to save his life – first Stoke, then the bench at Mordor. It took me a few minutes to get my head round this, but as I've said already, and others have said, we have to back Silva and Brands on this.

On the surface, it appears that Silva is pretty much staking his reputation on this purchase, such is the negative reaction to it amongst the football world, so he must be totally confident that Richarlison is going to set Goodison on fire. But I have a suspicion that the price has been hyped by Watford and that we're not paying anything near the £50M being bandied about. If the real figure is closer to £30M then it's not much more than we paid for Tosun.


Max Murphy
215 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:34:31
Here we go again. Money down the drain.
Paul Tran
216 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:52:46
This has the look of face-saving all round. Silva gets the player he probably wants above all else; we settle our dispute with Watford on the hush-hush; Watford publicise the total package with add-ons to prove they fleeced us; we stress the, frankly, going rate and that if the add-ons apply, the player will prove value.

He's a very good young player who clearly wants to reunite with Silva and play for a bigger club. I hope we seal the deal.

My guess that this is being done on the basis that players will be leaving. If that includes those who don't want to stay, that's fine by me. We need commitment from all players.

Tommy Carter
217 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:53:59
I've said this for 2 years. We have a massive squad full of average to poor players. Some of which we have paid massive transfer fees and wages to.

Instead of Bolasie, Niasse, Sigurdsson and Richarlison (£135M approx... and probably combined £350-400k per week wages)... Why not just buy someone like Icardi for £100M and give him £200k per week?

We had to adopt the Man City model of seeing what the best player who is attainable by throwing money at them and get them. Icardi is a world-class player who is gettable. There are others.

Alan J Thompson
218 Posted 21/07/2018 at 11:56:34
I don't know what the actual price is but £50M brings to mind the expression of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, and I'm not even sure I've got that the right way around.
Mike Keating
219 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:02:24
Is in anyone else mildly interested in signing this guy? Sounds like Sigurdsson all over again.

Hopefully it's yet another example of the bullshit being recycled on NewsNow.

Steve Ferns
220 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:05:56
Sure Paul, I know Icardi is an absolute nut job, but yeah he'll turn down Real Madrid and come here instead. £200k a week you say, sure, he'll even take a pay cut.

You might want to Google him to see why he's a nut job and the things he's got up to. Not the kind of player I'd want at my team if it is a marquee player and 10 average ones.

Paul Mackay
222 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:09:36
Tommy (#217),

Have you read the story of Icardi stealing his teammate's missus and then marrying her? The two players have refused to shake hands when Sampdoria play Inter.

Reminds me of the old rumour that Gary Stevens stole Kevin Radcliffe's missus... or vice versa, I can't recall!

Paul Mackay
223 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:15:22
Sampdoria.
Steve Ferns
224 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:21:01
Maxi Lopez was the player concerned. They had three children too. And that's not even the worst thing Icardi has done. He might be a “character” but he's not the kind of character I want at Everton.

Sorry, Paul, I meant to address Tommy!

Brian Harrison
225 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:32:01
As I posted earlier, might be better to wait till the deal is finalized and the details published for all to see, before being critical? I think we have to trust Silva and Brands and not look for faults in the first few weeks before the season has started.

I am sure Silva, who hasn't had a lot of money to spend at Hull or Watford, so he knows the value of money, so if he thinks at whatever the fee is that Richarlison is worth it, then I trust him. He said last week he had identified the players he wanted to bring in and was confident the people who look after this side of the business would get the players.

I wonder what significance we can give to the players not making the trip to Portugal, the official line is they are injured or ill. I think maybe these players and their agents might be looking at pastures new. I hope in Lookman's case he is genuinely injured, but maybe he has told Silva he wants to go to Leipzig.

Martin Berry
226 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:42:47
Some of the "moaners" on here would not look out of place at an undertakers convention.

Complaining there has been no signings, and then when we look to sign a Brazilian!! — who at 21 appears to have all the right attributes for an exciting future in an Everton shirt — what do we get? Disdain.

The player is well known by his potential boss, having played under him, who previously scouted him — what more of an insurance policy do you want.

Blue appears to permanently grey for some! But it's always a source of amusement that why I love this site and of course everyone deserves a shout.

Ian Burns
227 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:46:46
Brian (#225) – apart from Lookman, who are the players who haven't traveled to Portugal?

24 hours later, I still cannot get my head around Richarlison being worth £50M. However, I also couldn't get my head around Lukaku being worth £28M when we bought him.

Steve Ferns
228 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:49:42
Ian, see the Portugal thread, but the answer is Walcott, Bolasie, Lookman and Baningime. No mention of Calvert-Lewin (must have travelled) and McCarthy (definitely not travelled).
Jay Harris
229 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:51:07
Forgetting the fee for a minute, assuming reports are correct on our interest, I remember watching this lad against Chelsea last season when Richarlison missed four sitters and Chelsea ended up winning the game even though Watford battered them.

I would much sooner have Calvert-Lewin there than this lad and spend the money on a De Bruyne type of midfielder instead.

Paul Mackay
230 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:54:44
Bolasie, Walcott, Martina.
Paul Mackay
231 Posted 21/07/2018 at 12:57:01
Issue is where do you just get a “De Bruyne” type from?
Ian Burns
232 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:08:58
Thanks Steve, appreciated.
Gary Russell
233 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:10:05
If we sell Lookman, no worries. It will surely mean he wanted to leave, and as well all know, 'tis no use having a player who doesn't want to be here.
Sean Patton
234 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:14:28
Paul @211

That's a good point. While I think the fee is too much, if you compare it to the price for Grealish and consider he never did anything when he was in the Premier League, at least Richarlison did have an impact... even if it was brief.

£40M for Grealish or £35M with add-ons for Richarlison?

Bobby Thomas
235 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:17:11
Justin (#158),

"£30M for Pickford, about £10M too much at the time and again wasn't a key position needed to be filled."

Nonsense. All of it.

Paul Smith
236 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:24:27
"Keep Calvert-Lewin and let's buy a De Bruyne type"...I wish Jay.

A super De Bruyne type, I mean. Calvert-Lewin has shown nothing to be kept at Everton long term.

Paul Birmingham
237 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:37:33
I pray and hope that Silva knows this player well and proves a point in the best possible way and he's a success, as the media hype today, does indicate more than many stories this will happen.

I sense Lookman will be gone soon, and he's never been given a fair crack.

Simon Smith
238 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:38:22
Jay,

Please give a few examples of these “De Bruyne types”.

Is that a particular search criteria on the new Football Manager??

Kim Vivian
239 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:41:47
I think Distin moved on long ago, Martin.

Looking forward to seeing this happen. Shocked at first over the fee but reading various comments on different sites, and with Silva's knowledge of the guy, I am quietly optimistic.

Darren Hind
240 Posted 21/07/2018 at 13:44:06
We haven't even signed a player yet, but the guys selling kites around Walton must be rubbing their hands safe in the knowledge that trade will be as brisk as ever next season. I can't believe people see themselves as being positive because the applaud this madness.

This deal is likely to go through for two very good reasons:

1) Everton are once again prepared to make complete Toby's of themselves by paying way in excess of what any other club would dream of offering – you'll notices the absence of other teams fighting for his signature.

2) This is the best offer this kid will get. The big boys have not, are not, and will not be coming in for him. Not even if you take off the £10M "hidden compo" some are suggesting will sweeten the deal. There is a very good reason for that.

This kid is decent, but he still had more poor games than good ones last season and his poor games did not (as has also been suggested) only start when Silva departed.

I wouldn't mind giving this lad a whirl, he looks like he could be a player, but, even by today's ridiculous transfer dealings, £35M for a kid who has yet to score or create half a dozen goals is utterly absurd.

Oh and those saying they don't care about how much we spend on this one player...? Na, it doesn't matter.



Nicholas Ryan
242 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:06:32
I have had just about as much as I can take, of the relentless negativity and screaming panic on this site: Now let's try and address the situation with calm and logic.

1. is Richarlison at his best a really top class player? The evidence available, suggests, Yes.
2. He was personally scouted by Marco Silva, who urged the Watford board to sign him.
3. The one man who can get the best out of this player is Marco Silva. Is he currently the Everton manager? Yes.
4. Did the player have a dip in form? Yes. Did that coincide with the [Everton-induced] shenanigans over Mr. Silva? Almost certainly.
5. If he had not had the dip in form, would he now be interesting the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea? Yes, almost certainly.
6. Is he a risk? Yes, but only a modest one.
7. Is the 'headline' price accurate? Unlikely, strip out bonuses, agent fees etc. and the 'true' figure is probably about £30m.
8. Will we have to pay more, because of the recent 'history' between the clubs? Probably, but it won't be much.
9. Does Marcel Brands look like the kind of guy you can 'con' in a negotiation? No.
10. Would you rather negotiate with Marcel Brands & Sacha Ryantsev, or Tony Soprano? Easy, Tony Soprano!!

Ray Roche
243 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:09:11
Ridiculous fee, if it true. I wonder if Richarlison was one of the players who were reportedly knocking on Silvas door asking him to "take them with him" when he was at Watford and coming to Goodison?
Steve Ferns
244 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:27:17
Nicholas:

1. Not quite.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. It wasn't a dip in form, it went off a cliff for months.
5. He was linked to a number of clubs including Man Utd and Chelsea as recently as April for £40m
6. At that price a massive one.
7. The money paid to Watford you mean? It's probably not even half the reported fee, but what does it matter, Everton still need to pay all the other bills. The question is how much is add-ons.
8. We're paying £10m more than was quoted in April and all he's done since then is play worse and go on holiday.
9. I'd be more concerned about how he is in negotiations than how he looks! One of our dutch brethren gave an interesting picture of him as a "farmer". They paint a picture of a shrewd negotiator, unlike Steve Walsh who handed over cash like a virgin in a brothel.
10. What's Sacha Ryazantsev got to do with it? His brief is marketing and commerce and hopefully he's addressing those critical areas where we have underperformed for years.

Ray – most certainly. He was also rebuked by Watford for a twitter outburst after Silva was sacked. His admiration for his old manager is clear for all to see.

Also, Richarlison could speak no English when he joined. He was looked after by Heurelho Gomes, but the Brazilian keeper has found himself being shoved out the door. Obviously Silva and staff speak the same, but slightly different, language.

Gavin Johnson
245 Posted 21/07/2018 at 14:44:51
By all accounts, Richarlison didn't get on with the Spanish chap who took over from Silva. Plus he'd been playing football for over 12 months in Brazil and England by the time his form dropped off a cliff after Silva got the sack. Silva leaving, fatigue and indifference under the other manager are hopefully the reasons why he looked a shadow of the player we saw in the first 3 months of the season.

This is an expensive gamble. What will rub salt into the wounds for me is if we allow Lookman to leave. If Lookman goes, I predict that he'll continue to thrive at Leipzig and will be sold 12 months down the line to a top 4 side for mega bucks.

All the TV pundits were swooning over Stirling during the World Cup. IMO, Lookman will be a better player than Stirling once he has a sustained role in a team. He is a much better finisher than Stirling for one thing.

Steve Ferns
246 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:32:21
Interesting view in the Echo from a Football.London journo who has the "inside track" on Richarlison.
Mark Tanton
247 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:36:11
Has Richarlison gone to Germany with Watford or is he suspiciously missing? I note Bolasie has stayed home from tour..
Barry McNally
248 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:41:20
No sign of Richarlison in Watford's squad for today's game at Fortuna Düsseldorf.

The enigma that is Jack Rodwell is a second half sub for the Hornets.

Steve Ferns
249 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:42:39
Mark, Watford are in Austria but playing Dusselldorf. Richarlison is not playing nor is he on the bench. He was in the training camp. Scanning Watford's twitter feed, there's no pictures of him in the new kit, which could be ominous. They seem to have more footage of Jack Rodwell in training than Richarlison as well!
Mike Gaynes
250 Posted 21/07/2018 at 15:57:20
Amazing, 250 comments – most of them negative – off what is still basically a standard transfer rumor.

I'll say this, if we do buy this lad and he succeeds, crows are going to be an endangered species in England because so many folks here will be dining on them.

Daniel Lim
251 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:11:41
Mike @250

So you also classify your own message as negative since yours was the 250th?

Joking aside, I don't see any problem to be negative with such a buy (and don't think this is just mere rumour) as the guy only scored how many last season? And didn't score in the last how many matches? Sorry I'm just too lazy to find out the numbers as it's 11pm here, tired.

No matter how you wanna say it, this is a BIG gamble. He may turn out to be a 30-goal machine for us, but it's still a big gamble at this stage.

Paul Tran
252 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:14:28
According to a fairly accurate person on Twitter, Richarlison isn't there with them. A few sources saying he's having a medical with us today. Regardless, I think this is the one Silva was confident about.
Tommy Carter
253 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:18:13
@224 Steve

I'm afraid the only character I want at my club is a winner. I believe Icardi is that and that he is potentially world class.

if you want a team full of great blokes then good luck.

Psycho Pat, Shaggy Stevens, Andy Gray 3 of your most prime examples of less than honourable characters. But winners. And formed part of the greatest ever Everton team.

Steve Ferns
254 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:22:43
He’s also Real Madrid bound.
Jamie Crowley
255 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:53:20
I went out last night with the Mrs to a get-together and got wrecked. Blind drunk by the time I went to bed near 2 am. An invertible mess of a human being. Didn't wake up until 11 am this morning.

I blame Marco.

I distinctly remember thinking, "if Marco can be so reckless, surely I can be a bit reckless too?"

I think this kid, if he comes good, will absolutely terrorize the shit out of the opposition.

But we've definitely paid over the odds. And Silva is taking a really, really big gamble with this one.

Come on Richar-ar-ar-il-ar-d-arl-son. Or however you pronounce that non-Anglo tongue twisting name!

Just pay for yourself brother!

I'm behind M+M+M, but having slept on it, and drank in excess to clear my head and have a re-think, I still believe this is putting the life savings on red at the roulette table.

Fuck it. Let's do this.

Paul Dewhurst
256 Posted 21/07/2018 at 16:56:07
Silva comes out with "Niasse has a place and a role." – everyone is saying we have no money.

We are reported to have offered £50m and it's Wait a minute we are being fleeced.

Not arsed what we pay as long as we balance the books and put a round peg in a round hole.

Koeman bought Martina

Bobby bought Alcaraz, Robles and McCarthy

Moyes bought Kilbane

Smith Bought Gazza

Kendall bought anyone who he could have a drink with...

If you are a manager you surround yourself with people you know and trust in football terms players and backroom staff.

Get rid of Lookman, who would appear wants to be somewhere else; Bolasie, who has been shite since the injury; and Vlasic, who is just not that good – and you have almost financed this deal. Ship out three realistically non-starters and replace them with a first team player.

None of us know what the deal is, we just read Shite on the web and on Twitter then other posts on here and then express our opinions as concrete facts. (I'm also guilty of this.)

When skys are grey, so is most of the fan base!

Mark Taylor
257 Posted 21/07/2018 at 18:47:52
A 'swoop' makes it sound like we are about to pluck him from a rival's grip. Is anyone else in there bidding this kind of money? I think not.

I had hope that our new manager, with Brands working alongside side, might have had more nous than to pluck someone from his old club. Maybe a few wider contacts out there. That worries me somewhat. Especially as we do not have a positive relationship with them.

Also we only need him if Lookman goes. Are we going to acquire this guy instead of Lookman at a big net loss? That doesn't sound like good business.

And why are RB Leipzig buzzing around Lookman? I suggest his very low wages that they can easily afford. No chance of them trying to get Sandro?

Steve Ferns
258 Posted 21/07/2018 at 18:52:21
Mark, we need to remember this isn’t an auction. If we want Richarlison then we have to pay this ridiculous fee. If Silva is that sure he’s worth it, we should back him. We have to have faith in silva and brands to make good purchases, even if this one looks like it might not be.
Denis Richardson
259 Posted 21/07/2018 at 19:55:26
Hugh (#191), thanks for pointing out. I didn't realise the transfer window shuts 9 August.

So we have 19 days to complete all our transfers! Crikey!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

260 Posted 21/07/2018 at 19:56:15
As one who doesn't get worked up about any and every transfer rumour, I'll leave the debate about this rumoured story and fee to others.

As someone resident in Brazil, I'll stick to what I know about Richarlison, the player. And that is: NOTHING!

Fluminese, his former team - a very middling club - is one of three teams my Brazilian brother-in-law follows. As such, I keep an eye on them to wind him up as he winds me up over Everton.

And in his one and a half seasons with Fluminese before signing for Watford, I have absolutely no recall of him. None.

I do recall a bit of a social media spat between the player and his club just ahead of him signing for Watford. The reigning Brazilian champions Palmeiras made a bid for him (still only 20) just before Fluminese were due to play them. As a result, the player (the club president alleged) asked not to be selected by the club paying his salary against the club looking to sign him, and Richarlison broke down in tears (again, allegedly) when Fluminese slapped his wrists for his 'immaturity'. The player drew a great deal of public criticism from fans.

Richarlison took to Instagram to deny the charges, saying: "Who knows me knows I don't do this type of thing. I am not a mercenary and I am not a coward. Sorry. I don't want to hurt anyone."

The end result was, he got a salary raise, because of the fans wrath Fluminense refused point blank to deal with Palmeiras, stating they would prefer to sell to an overseas club rather than a Brazilian one, which is what they ultimately did.

Truly, my only personal recall of the player is the 3-2 roller-coaster at Goodison last season in which he most certainly did impress. I cannot recall a single minute of his game time in Brazil.

Tony Twist
261 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:09:39
£44 million pounds... I just hope it is not at the expense of Lookman. Just image all the teams crapping themselves as we copy the RS with no target man up front with a front line of Walcott in the centre, Lookman on one side and Richarlison on the other.
Kevin Turner
262 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:11:12
It's only being so happy that keeps everyone going on here.
Denis Richardson
263 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:14:25
£44m. Medical on Monday.

That's a chunk of change.

Paul Graney
264 Posted 21/07/2018 at 20:37:32
I can't believe after last season that we're signing a player who's only had a handful of decent games in the Premier League for nearly £50 million – we are becoming a laughing stock.

I thought Silva and Brands were gonna open all sorts of avenues in our quest for new players but no, we pay well over the odds for one of his former players.

Why don't we actually concentrate on areas we're we actually need strengthening? We could well be, I sincerely hope so, plus not much sign of any deadwood going out.

Will Jones
265 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:16:17
Let's hope the familiar music of Z-Cars brings out the best of him then!!
Paul Tran
266 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:24:08
£35m is a lot of money for a young, decent player with the potential to improve. A ridiculous fee if he flops, we won't bat an eyelid about it if he's successful, nor will we worry about the add-ons, that will presumably only be paid when he's a success.

No point banging on about Lookman. Koeman & Allardyce have pissed him off and I'd be surprised if he had any feelings for us now. Silva and Brands will deserve plenty of credit if they persuade him to stay. If he doesn't want to play for us, let him go.

This will be a good signing if, unlike last year, the manager knows how to get the best out of him and can build a coherent team around him.

Andy Crooks
267 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:30:00
I find this thread incredible. Does anyone think that Reds will be thinking, you know what we could have knocked thirty bob of the price of our new goalie if we had played hardball. They have a different mentality. They do not have the mantra of "crisis club" deep in their psyche.

£35 million, £10 million, £50 million. It matters not one fucking iota in the madness of the Premier League. Our new coach has identified a player and it looks like the club have got him. Well done.

IT IS NOT OUR MONEY. Let's hope he can provide some entertainment and excitement. This bean counting is small-minded. For fans to be counting the ins and outs of the club's finances is ludicrous. We know nothing. Let's have some fucking fun for a change.

David Pearl
268 Posted 21/07/2018 at 21:43:35
It may not be our money but it is our club. Count the wages on the trash we've bought, add the amount to pay off all the managers and their sidekicks and whatever Walsh was paid... money for the Under-23 squad. It's horrendous!
Jeff Armstrong
269 Posted 21/07/2018 at 23:12:15
Andy, it is OUR money cos it's OUR club, and these ridiculous fees, wages and deadwood left at OUR club become OUR problem, because it we who have to put up with the Kevin Mirallas's and Yannick Bolasie's of this world who put a massive stranglehold on OUR club to progress with new and better players.
David Gallant
270 Posted 21/07/2018 at 23:44:50
I can't believe all the negativity here about this lad. The fee is of no consequence - do you really think Marcel Brands and Marco Silva would sanction this unless they were absolutely sure what we're getting?

The lad is 21, has proven he can cut it in the Premier League already, is a hard-working lad who comes from a very humble background and has his best years ahead of him. Silva knows him inside out and he is only going to get better. This signing is going to give us a threat on the left (to compliment Walcott on the right) and nobody will be talking about the fee at the end of next season (à la Pickford).

If (and its a big if) he is a failure then by all means knock him, Brands, Silva, Moshiri et al. But lets at least give them all the benefit of the doubt now shall we? As for these comments about Salah, Willian, etc – you forget one thing – prospective signings need to WANT to join Everton. You really think Salah would have left Roma for us? Or that Willian would even entertain a move here for one second? Behave.

As for 'we need other positions filled first' – again, do you think Brands and Silva don't know this? If we've not signed a left-back and or centre-back by the end of the window, by all means vent your proverbial spleen. But until then, try and remain positive and give the new management team a chance.

Yes, we wasted money last year and bought players that just didn't work out. But remember Marcel Brands knows what he is doing. I have a feeling that Tierney is going to end up at Goodison and that Brands is calling Celtic's bluff. If not, Digne will do too. Or maybe they're negotiating with someone we've not even heard of in the tabloids yet.

Now to get rid of Bolasie (subtract his sale from Richarlison's purchase and remember the latter's wages are likely to be less than Yannick's – suddenly, £50M doesn't look so steep), Williams, Mirallas, Klassen, Sandro and the other high earners who are not going to play next season and already that's massive progress.

Gavin Johnson
271 Posted 22/07/2018 at 00:37:27
Echo are saying it's £35M rising to £40M. Still a lot but sounds a lot better than £50M, especially given that some of the fee is reportedly part of a peace deal between the clubs.
Mark Taylor
272 Posted 22/07/2018 at 01:34:13
Steve (#2),

If there is no auction, then why would we pay a ridiculous fee. There is no-one else in for him.

Do you think it is a good sign that we have a manager buying players from his old club? Did Klopp for example run back to Borussia Dortmund to pick up his old players? It doesn't exactly suggest a wide view of the football market.

You read perhaps a previous article of mine quoting Brands. This one cannot afford not to be a good purchase, Brands rightly says we need a 90% success rate. Moshiri has stated and Brands has repeated there has to be revenue raised to buy, so we have to sell to fund, presumably Lookman because we can't shift the rest of the overpaid deadwood. Do you think getting this guy and losing Lookman and taking a £10-20M loss is good business? Maybe for Malcom, but not this guy.

We don't have to have faith in Silva. We are perfectly entitled to question his and the club's judgement, given the crap we have bought recently. This has a pretty bad sense of history repeating itself, we overpay for someone with a very limited track record, basically a couple of months of decent performances and then he apparently got tired or disillusioned or whatever. At the very least, this is high risk, and we shouldn't be buying risk for £40M, we can't afford to do that.

As you know, my faith in Silva is not even remotely as strong as yours. While I hope you are proved correct, I don't think you will be. I think we are becoming the dopey patsy of the transfer market. Clubs can see us coming from a mile off.

Gavin Johnson
273 Posted 22/07/2018 at 01:47:40
Mark (#272),

I agree with most of what you say, particularly this habit we seem to be getting known for in overpaying for players no other clubs are going in for.

What I don't agree with is the idea that we've had to sell to get funds to buy players. That's simply not true! We couldn't buy any more players because the squad was at bursting point with 38 players. We've just had a £22M bid accepted by Barca for Digne. We'll buy a new centre-bac too, so there will be more money spent than what we bring in, so while it's true we've had to move some players out, it's not for the reason you're making out.

Jerome Shields
274 Posted 22/07/2018 at 04:55:56
Apparently, back door Silva compensation is involved.
Daniel Lim
275 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:12:01
David @270, using the word “absolutely” makes me think of Roberto Martinez. How can anyone absolutely sure that 50m will be well spent?
Tony Everan
276 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:45:26
Time will tell whether it is good business or not but a new manager has to be backed. His decisions in the transfer market will have been vetted and passed by Brands.

Richarlison is young and a risk but he has unlimited potential, wanted to come to Everton and play for Silva. His heart and passion will be invested in it. Silva and his team will make it their personal responsibility to make the lad the best he can be. Remember, any signing is a risk, this one is an educated risk. We have got to get behind the manager and player and give them 100% support and encouragement – it helps.

I think it has been a great weekend. A young Brazilian striker, who we can watch improve. He looks fearless and streetwise, just the player who can score against the top six.

Also Digne, Barca have had him scouted and signed but he has struggled to break into their fantastic league-winning team on a regular basis. This lad could be a great signing with a touch of class. Maybe the best option available for us in that position.

Judging by the interest in Yerry Mina, the universally agreed signing of a centre-back will happen too. With us signing his teammate Digne, it could still happen. If not, there maybe some other irons in the fire.

I wouldn't rule out a bit of wheeling and dealing by M&M to bring us a midfielder too before the deadline.

I'm much happier today with the progress, I think Richarlison and Digne will give the whole squad a lift. Other players will raise their game, the manager will be more confident.

I would still like us to keep Ademola Lookman; it will be a sad day if he is sold. Walcott has been great but is injury-prone, he won't play a full season. Lookman can fill in and share that role as part of his development. Lookman has the opportunity to make himself “undroppable”.

He should reconsider his position, stay and fight.

Above all, we have to look at where we are now compared to the dark days of last season. We are back in the game.

Sam Hoare
277 Posted 22/07/2018 at 07:58:00
£35M rising to £40M, apparently. Which may or may not include an extra ‘goodwill' payment to Watford.

Less ludicrous at that price but still too much in my option for someone who's end product was dubious at best last season.

I give you Bolasie as Exhibit A, a player with flashes of brilliance who could seldom convert that into game changing-winning performances. At least Richarlison is younger and may improve. Fingers crossed.

As for the “the manager knows him so it must be a good move” line then I refer you to Kone, Alcaraz and Schneiderlin – to name a few.

Laurie Hartley
278 Posted 22/07/2018 at 08:32:55
Looks like a terrific player:

Going by that, he can run at a defense and beat a man and is also prepared to track back and help the defense.

At 21, he may well turn out to be a shrewd bit of business even at the reported £35M.

Looks like we have all but signed Digne. If we get a left-sided centre-back, we will have strengthened the whole of the left side.

That would do me.

Jerome Shields
279 Posted 22/07/2018 at 08:48:20
Trying to be positive. Richarlison is better for Everton than Lookman. He wants to play for Everton, he gets on well with Silva and he buys into the Brands & Silva plan. It also means that Everton will be building up play and will be providing more support to the forwards.

If we get Mina and Digne in defence (I won't discount a late move for Tierney) we will have a more balanced squad with more pace than the start of last season. Hopefully we can sell off more deadwood before the start of the season and some underperforming players with potential start to be motivated, particularly in midfield.

Lookman is gone and Niasse is turbocharged because, at last, the Manager has faith in him. Also, those North London gaskets have been sorted out.

Yes, I am quite hopeful regarding the coming season; more hopeful than I have been for years.

Martin Nicholls
280 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:21:39
Over 270 posts on this thread but generally speaking there are only two points of debate:

(1) is quoted fee, whatever that may be, realistic?
(2) will signing Richarlison mean losing Lookman?

We all have opinions on both points and time will tell who's are right – in the meantime, our views count for nothing. The one common theme seems to be that he is a decent player, or at least has the potential to be a decent player who will strengthen our left side – something we have been crying out for since Stevie P went to Tottenham.

Ian Bennett
281 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:29:07
Hope they prove me wrong. But £60M seems a lot for players nowhere near the top 6.

Feels like we are in squander land. Can't afford the big players that the top 6 target, and don't buy those clever buys either. We seem to be prepared to spend £20-40M on big wages, with no real incentive for the players to kick on. If you're Schneiderlein on £100k+ per week that can't get top 4, what's the incentive to go the extra mile?

If they make it like Stones and Lukaku, they'll be off before you can say Champions League. So I guess we've got one more season of Pickford before he goes for £60M+. Blues will be happy with the fee, and then the cycle goes on.

Hungover and pissed off.

Ray Roche
282 Posted 22/07/2018 at 09:58:04
The BBC website have said the fee is 35m rising to 40m with add on's and that this figure includes Watford's compensation.
A bit more realistic.
Jimmy Digney
283 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:36:28
What do big clubs do
Justin Doone
284 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:42:03
Look at our squad for the last 3 seasons, the areas we have not improved is central defence and the forward transition between midfield and attack.

After many years of wanting pace, skill, agility and work rate we got it, but we only got one part in each senior player Walcott pace, skill Rooney, agility Siggy and Gana work rate.

Ricky brings pace, skill, agility all in one package, that's what we need and a few more with it. £50m so be it, couldn't care less after wasting so much money on limited players.

Hopefully DCL, Lookman and Davies can add to it by bringing work rate plus pace/skill/agility to the team but they are in my opinion less proven especially Lookman.

Tosun, Ricky, Lookman, DCL, Walcott and Niasse (cups/sub) battling for the front 3 or 4 positions.

I fear Ricky will not sign, I fear Lookman is gone for £16m and I fear our senior players who should be sold will not be. That being and my reasonable feeI Williams £4m, Schnides £10m, Klasson £15m, Bollasie £12m, McCarthy £5m.

I hope I'm wrong and either way we still need a £40m central defender i.e. top class.

Rob Halligan
285 Posted 22/07/2018 at 10:59:27
Stand by for a ToffeeWeb main forum meltdown as the red echo report a Chelsea interest in Pickford.
James Marshall
286 Posted 22/07/2018 at 11:08:41
We paid £27m for Tosun and Richalison is going to cost about £40m. Seems like a reasonable deal in todays market if you ask me.

I always liked the look of him - pacey, strong, decent shot on him, a few tricks here & there. He can be a right handful when he wants to be, and that'll do for me.

We're generally shite to watch so buying someone with pace & flair will surely be a good thing. You never know of course, he might turn out to be rubbish but we have to be in the market for young players with his attributes.

Gordon Crawford
287 Posted 22/07/2018 at 11:53:34
Yes Rob I read that, so I think I should start the meltdown lol.
People like David Seaman need to keep their mouth shut. Saying that Jordan will go to a big club, a top six team is just not on.
Chelsea need to get stuffed, he isn’t for sale.
Tony Abrahams
288 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:21:17
I think Everton can get top six next season anyway Gordon, but I’m not going to totally stick my neck out just yet. I will definitely be putting my money where my mouth is, if the next few weeks pan out like I expect them to though.

Ever the optimist, or maybe just a lunatic? Let’s just get the crowd really going again, because it’s always been our best weapon!

Gordon Crawford
289 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:30:51
Sounds good Tony. We’ll be champions by the end of the season. :)
Rob Halligan
290 Posted 22/07/2018 at 12:44:39
Is right Gordon. The following is taken from the Transfer Gossip page on the BBC website .

Chelsea have told Real Madrid that they will not be bullied into selling 27-year-old Belgium midfielder Eden Hazard - even for £170m. (Mirror).

So we tell Chelsea Pickford won't be sold for any price, and basically tell them to stick their money where the sun don't shine.

Besides, I don't think Silva or Brands are quite ready to sell him just yet.

Tom Bowers
291 Posted 22/07/2018 at 13:07:28
I don't know why some fans get so irked by transfer fees.
Surely they know by now they are through the roof and after RS pay so much for a keeper who before the World cup wasn't much of a name except that he is Brazilian why is 40/50 mill. a surprise for a young striker

I like Richarleson and at 21 seems like a good investment.

Yes, I am aware that big money and big wages don't guarantee a return for the investment but that's football and all clubs/managers know the risk.

Everton have paid a lot less for no-name players without Prem. experience such as Niasse, Sandro and Tosun and none of them really cut the mustard.

Sam Hoare
292 Posted 22/07/2018 at 14:09:56
One thing I like about Richarlison is that he clearly works very hard. His defensive stats are impressive for a winger and I’m told he made more tackles last year than Schneiderlin and more blocks than Gueye. He puts in the effort both offensively and defensively which I think will make him popular and set him apart from the likes of Mirallas, Bolasie and Lookman.
Gordon Crawford
293 Posted 22/07/2018 at 15:13:40
Here here Rob. :)
Tom Bowers
294 Posted 22/07/2018 at 15:55:24
Niasse is also a very hard worker but lacking in some subtleties, However, he may just make up a decent partnership with Richarlison. Niasse is strong and puts himself about and I think with a run of games will improve.

Sadly that was something we thought would happen with Lukaku and Bolasie until Bolasie got injured and hasn't been the same since.

If you add Walcott into the mix, we may start scoring goals again.

Tony Page
295 Posted 22/07/2018 at 16:04:36
I wouldn't worry too much about Chelsea in for Pickford; apparently, they have a list of keepers.

Donnarumma of AC Milan, Schmeichel of Leicester and Cech of Arsenal. So let's hope they go for one of them.

Coyb 😇

Mike Gaynes
296 Posted 22/07/2018 at 16:13:19
Hope you're dead on, Rob!

Anybody want to watch Onyekuru score?

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2018/7/22/17599688/everton-on-loan-henry-onyekuru-scores-first-galatasaray-goal-watch-video-nigeria-international

Matthew Williams
298 Posted 22/07/2018 at 17:46:03
No thanks. Spend the money on hungry lower league players... at least they'll try!
William Cartwright
299 Posted 22/07/2018 at 18:13:50
Tony Everan (#276). Excellent post sir. Excellent.

I've just watched Sam's YouTube reel. Bugger me he looks a complete all-round player with some beautiful assists, many of which did not become goals through no fault of his own.

Watching Laurie's YouTube reel and seeing him play with real full-bloodied commitment makes me realize just how 'wimpish' some of our squad (some, not all) look by comparison. Best feature of all for me is his tackling back; very unusual for such an attack-minded player.

Dave Abrahams
300 Posted 22/07/2018 at 18:29:49
Tony (288), you've always been a wishful thinker and an optimist, that's not a bad thing but twins are definitely steering you towards lunacy, day by day, and I think you are doing the same to them. !!!!!
Colin Glassar
301 Posted 22/07/2018 at 19:04:22
All done and dusted, bar the photo, according to Sky. I’d have preferred Martial for that kind of money but I think this kid has it in him to be special.
Mark Taylor
302 Posted 23/07/2018 at 01:54:25
Gavin 273,

I am basically quoting what Brands himself said a month or so ago. Trimming the squad size was part of the equation but also so was a very clear implication that Moshiri has basically flashed much of the cash he is willing to, and we have to trade. I think that means Lookman out the door to fund this, rightly or wrongly. The way the player trading accounting works, it will actually make this deal a net positive, at least for a year or so. But if this guy doesn't work out- and he is hardly proven, he really just offers potential, same as Lookman- then we will face another very large accounting hit.

How easily we could then move him on will depend on his wages. If he is on Klaasen or Sandro money, we'll be stuck with him.

I am perhaps a bucket half empty person, but I think that's with some justification given recent seasons. I'd love to be proved wrong about this, but I think we are running the risk of a serious lack of proven performers and too many not good enoughs, past their sell by dates or expensive hangers on. What frustrates me most is that for years, decades even, we haven't had two brass farthings to rub together and the one time we actually have proper money, we go and blow it.

And Moshiri is only a lightweight billionaire. Unless his mate Usamov comes in, I think he is going to run out of cash funding sooner rather than later. We really need this guy Richarlison and a few more of the recent signings to come good.

Paul Ferry
303 Posted 23/07/2018 at 05:14:55
Best quote of the day/thread surely:– 'And Moshiri is only a lightweight billionaire'.
Victor Yu
304 Posted 23/07/2018 at 06:24:25
It sounds like he is coming on Monday.
Mark Cranney
305 Posted 23/07/2018 at 09:25:34
I can't believe that so many of you have not worked out that hidden in this amount is compensation to Watford for Silva and the fact they also wanted a bit of profit...

So let's look at it really as £40 million for Richarlison = £16million compensation for Silva and then £24 million for Richarlison. Who happens to be a Brazilian international at 21... oh, and a forward who scored more goals than most of the forwards we had for last season.

Now how about a little bit of faith and let's see what the season brings.

Derek Taylor
306 Posted 23/07/2018 at 09:49:14
When 'the Double M' management team was announced, most of saw Moshiri making a new beginning. Two months later, nothing has changed and the Club is still throwing money at 'maybes' whilst carrying a veritable mob of 'never-wases'.

My fear is that the latest Dutchmen are out of the same mold as their predecessors! Just in it for the money!

Simon Smith
307 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:01:15
Who would you attempt to buy then, Derek? Names please. I can almost guarantee they will be named that are literally out if our league.

I'm sure I'll hear “We're a big club, we should be aiming for the best players” — tell that to the players. Would Neymar consider us??? No. Ronaldo???? No. Even the step down from them is out of our league.

We have to look at realistic targets that will improve our team. Will Richarlison improve our team??? In my eyes... yes, most definitely!

Some fans will never be happy, but instead of just slating the management, why not give realistic alternatives???

Steve Hogan
308 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:02:24
Derek (#306),

Who are the latest 'Dutchmen'? You seem to have written both off already, before the season has even started.

Brent Stephens
309 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:15:26
Derek, what money have we thrown about so far under the two Ms?

Both Dutchmen?

Brian Williams
310 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:37:48
Who're the Dutch "men"? Unless you're counting Myarco Shilva????
Sam Hoare
311 Posted 23/07/2018 at 10:51:40
Is anyone else bugged by Sky constantly reporting it as a £50M deal even though a lot of decent sources have now said it's likely to be a £35M fee rising to £40M? It's as though Sky are inviting people to laugh at us for overspending!
Mark Taylor
312 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:03:13
Mark (#305),

I am mystified as to why we would pay £16m in compensation when we only offered £12m on the basis he would join us at that point, while still under contract to Watford and thus avoid the massive costs associated with employing and firing Allardyce.

Watford eventually sacked him which was their choice – and allegedly haven't paid Silva compensation – so I see no case for any compensation. I believe we offered £1m as a goodwill gesture which was rejected.

As I understand it, we did not 'tap him up'. Our approach was made to the club chairman. There is nothing illegal about that, in fact it is precisely how such discussions should happen. It is not the club's fault that his team's manager would prefer another club.

If we are paying £16m compensation, we are even bigger patsy than I thought...

Tony Everan
313 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:04:56
Derek (#306), it looks like we will sign 3 players. Richarlison, Digne and maybe Yerry Mina from Barcelona. Which three are you proposing instead of these 3, who want to come to us?

I think it is unfair to write M&M off as ‘Dutchmen who are only in it for the money'. I see them in a completely different light, enthusiastic professionals who are embracing a project and executing a plan, slowly but surely. Give them a chance.

Michael Lynch
314 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:08:39
If we were to sign Richarlison, Digne and Mina, I'd be reasonably happy. I've no idea if they'll be successes, but it addresses some of the issues we have – left back, central defence, and pace, goals and assists in attack.

I'd love it if we could also sign a top box to box midfielder because I don't think Tom Davies is at the required level yet, and I wouldn't mind that Lukaku replacement we've been longing for, though I think Tosun will be given until at least January to press his case.

The important thing is to get Silva's preferred first XI up and running as soon as possible, not at the last minute.

Dave Abrahams
315 Posted 23/07/2018 at 11:08:52
Sam (#311), I don't even think it is £35M, I would be looking at £20M to £25M plus add-ons. Truth is none of us know the real cost, as for Sky, well they employ Merson, Thompson and a string of other useless, but well paid, pundits, so that should tell you how important Sky is.
Matt Muzi
316 Posted 23/07/2018 at 12:21:01
I reckon this means Lookman is on his way.
Paul Tran
317 Posted 23/07/2018 at 12:54:21
Mark (#312), I'm not discounting that we may have had legal advice that we are 'guilty' at some level. And if that's the case, better to settle quietly than run the reputational risk of a long legal battle, at a time when we're trying to rebuild the club.

Just a thought. Of course, it's easy to say they're patsies, but I've got a sneaking suspicion there's more to this than we've heard so far.

Stephen Davies
318 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:05:05
Matt (#316),

I suspect Lookman doesn't have a knock at all.

Silva is not impressed with his attitude. Its no coincidence that Leipzig keep coming back for him. If Leipzig come up with the right offer, he will be gone.

Ray Roche
319 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:13:26
Stephen, where do you get the information that Silva is not impressed with Lookman's attitude? On the Sky website, he says Lookman is our player and he wants him to stay.
Chris Gould
320 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:36:34
Why do people believe we will only sign 3 players in this window? Silva has said that he wants at least 6 'quality' players in, and that it would be preferable to get them all in now as opposed to having to try for any in January.
It's going to be an interesting and hopefully exciting few weeks.
Paul Tran
321 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:41:51
There have been reports on Twitter that 'the club is not impressed with Lookman's attitude' since he came back from Germany. Make of that what you will!
Iain Johnston
322 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:48:49
Stephen (#318), I have to agree with Ray (#319).

Both Silva and Brands want Lookman to stay. Lookman wants to leave. Leipzig don't think he's worth the £20M we want for him... ergo, stalemate.

Brian Wilkinson
323 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:49:19
Cameras were set up by the Pall Mall Medical Centre, Newton-ie-Willows, and photo taken of Richarlison arriving for his medical.
Tom Bowers
324 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:52:43
Everton's first game at Wolves will all the tougher after all the signings Wolves have made and I see Moutinho is to be the latest addition.

They have shown they mean business so one hopes Silva will be following suit even after Richarleson signs; otherwise, it looks like Pickford will have to earn his keep big time this season.

Ray Roche
325 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:55:49
Paul,

''There have been reports'' is the 'Get Out Of Jail' card these days, with no link to an actual, certified report from someone in authority who can state categorically that it is fact that his attitude has not impressed Silva.

And as for Twitter, I leave that to the likes of Trump and air-headed bimbos off reality TV.

Brian Williams
326 Posted 23/07/2018 at 13:55:57
Silva has said we will/could be signing uo to six players and we will only buy quality.

Let's see what happens by the close of the transfer window.

Mark Tanton
327 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:18:09
Tom it’s interesting you equate busy transfer activity with a successful strategy. You think Wolves will be strong because they’ve done lots of business. Perhaps you weren’t watching the Everton experience this time last year?
Mike Gaynes
328 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:19:31
Tony (#313), we have no information yet that Digne and Mina actually want to come to Everton, or even to leave Barcelona. We only know that they want more playing time.
Ralph Basnett
329 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:34:03
Wasn't Tierry Henry a winger when Wenger signed him?

He didn't have a bad career as a striker!!!!

Just saying like...

James Ebden
330 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:48:03
Rumours coming out he has failed his medical. Seems odd as no reported injuries last year.
Lee Paige
331 Posted 23/07/2018 at 14:59:22
I’m hearing that’s baloney and it’s some mischievous gits on the wind up.
Lee Jackson
332 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:02:37
I'm hearing rumours of people hearing rumours. According to reports the rumours are either right or wrong.
Stephen Davies
333 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:06:05
Ray #319
Yes thats absolutely correct...He does want him to stay..(but hes not impressed with his attitude) .Lookman doesnt..Leipzig know this and thats why they keep coming back
Paul Tran
334 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:06:53
Ray, somebody asked where these rumours were coming from, so I told them.

I attach no credibility to anything in any media until I see the player in an Everton shirt.

Amidst the huge sea of nonsense, there is plenty good stuff on Twitter, including EFC things.

William Gall
335 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:08:12
If they sign Digne does it mean that Baines is his back up or, is it the other way around. We are well aware that we need a backup for Baines but should this be as critical a signing as a strong central defender. We also still need a quality midfielder.
Jamie Crowley
336 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:33:49
Sam back at 311 -

It bothers me they are reporting it as 50 million.

I've never seen a reported fee included the add-ons and incentives and what not. Yet strangely this is happening with our deal, making it look ludicrous.

It's definitely annoying.

And SSN just reported today Fat Sam is warning we're buying potential, hinting we're overpaying.

I think it's a lot of money, but I'm really hoping this is a great move and decision to shut everyone the hell up.

Tom Bowers
337 Posted 23/07/2018 at 15:39:20
He's 21 and has the potential to become a big scorer in the Prem. with the right support.
It's up to Silva to see he get's it.
Yes it's big money whatever it is but Watford doing Everton no favors obviously so they have to bite the bullet.
Mark Taylor
338 Posted 23/07/2018 at 16:29:35
Paul (#317),

I was responding to the earlier poster who suggested we may well be factoring in compensation of £16m, which would certainly make us patsies.

Of course we know neither the actual fee and its breakdown, nor our legal position, however since it is not disputed that we did approach the club about Silva – which for example, LFC did not seemingly do with Van Dijk first time around – and the reality that we did not actually appoint him because we were rebuffed, seems to me to render Watford's case pretty baseless.

They seem to be resting on the premise that another club enquiring to their board about the ability of one of their employees – which is not at all breaking rules in itself – is the sole reason for Watford's subsequent loss of form and Silva's subsequent sacking.

Since Watford often lose form, and sack managers with great frequency, that sounds like a pretty thin argument in a 'dog ate my homework' kind of way.

I note they are also so classy that they refused to pay any compensation to Silva having sacked him, seemingly for aspiring to work for a better club than Watford – though crucially, not actually then doing so.

Once Watford have sacked him, he is a free agent, the more so if Watford aren't even paying out his contract.

Paul Tran
339 Posted 23/07/2018 at 17:04:57
Fair point, Mark, we're all guessing a bit here. I made the point on another thread that this looks like a face-saving exercise for two egotistical owners who don't like losing in public. I'm not convinced Moshiri would throw an eight-figure sum of compo if he thought we were completely in the right.

The main issue here is how good the player will be. One day I hope we buy a player that's so good everyone stops mentioning the fee .and he stays!

Steven Jones
340 Posted 23/07/2018 at 19:54:21
Guys, guys, guys... the official site have not said £50M – so please get sensible .

My guess – and my guess is as good as anyone's who is not negotiating the contract – s £28M plus add-ons of Europe League appearances, Champions League achieved, 15 goals, FA Cup win, League Tittle and plays 50 internationals, taking it up to £38M.

Anyone else care to guess???

Michael Lynch
341 Posted 23/07/2018 at 19:58:50
He costs what he costs. If he has a great season we'll be boasting about what a bargain we got and trying to keep Chelsea from pinching him for £100m. If he's shit then Silva will be out the door and we'll go through the whole process again.

At least he gives us hope. Or he gives me hope anyway.

Tony Page
342 Posted 23/07/2018 at 21:03:12
Off topic, it's finally happened! East Fife 4 Forfar 5, all be it on penalties after normal time. 😎
Les Green
343 Posted 24/07/2018 at 08:45:42
My favourite quote in the Richarlison transfer fee palaver is from Mr Moshiri himself, who said something to the effect of "Everton fans don't need to worry themselves about how much it is". Which I took to mean . It's coming out of my pocket, not yours, so get over it
Steve Ferns
344 Posted 24/07/2018 at 08:55:45
Guys, this might just be the biggest story of our summer starting to happen:

Financial Times Reporte Usmanov is looking to sell shares in Arsenal

Adam Luszniak
345 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:06:02
Jamie Crowley, wasn't the Lukaku fee reported by some as £75m and others as £90m? The latter fee included the add ons. You can bet in this case that the £50m is coming from Watford, as they will not want to look like they are giving us a deal. £50m is a nice round expensive sounding number and in the world of click-bait news is a far more effective headline than "£35m, plus achievable add ons taking it to £44m, with slightly less achievable add ons possibly taking it to £50m."
James Marshall
346 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:25:05
I really don't get all the complaints about the fee. The market dictates the fee, and the selling club not the buying club. None of the issues surrounding the fee should bother any of us.

I've said it already on here, but Silva & Brands pick their targets and the club goes after them. If the club says, "no sorry, too expensive" well where does that leave the management team?

We (the club) has to be in a position to deliver the expectations & requirements of the management team when they choose their player targets and part of that is meeting the costs as set out by the selling club.

If we (Everton) don't do that, then Silva & Brands might as well pack it all in before they start.

As an aside and as mentioned above, great potential news for us about Alisher Usmanov looking to sell his stake in Arsenal. I had a hope/feeling that he and Moshiri would end up together at Everton, the USM Finch Farm deal being the tip of the iceberg. Great news in my view if it happens - I've had enough of being plucky little Everton - I want us to be super rich and trophy laden!

Jimmy Digney
347 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:46:12
Don’t you think we are acting like so called big clubs. The cries would be unmerciful if we never entered the transfer market ( AGAIN) in a big way. At this present moment in time our team are possibly the 6/8 best in the premiership. Moshiri has given Everton hope and a budget we never dreamt about 3 seasons ago so if we like these so called big clubs spend like there is no tomorrow so be it “ get on board enjoy don’t procrastinate join in or get Walter Smith back .NSNO
Gary Russell
348 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:47:01
The game of footy we know and love gets more and more outrageous with the money involved. Easy to forget that we have profited about 90 million quid from the sales of Stones and Lukaku, excluding whatever the fine print was with Rooney.
Sam Hoare
349 Posted 24/07/2018 at 09:58:09
Why should issues around the fee not bother us?!! This one argument I see repeated on here, often by people whos views I respect greatly, that I cannot get my head around.

This is our club, whose present and future we are all invested in enough to spend hours on here debating and discussing issues from small to large.

We all want the best for the club and obviously that includes making the most of the resources that they have. Of course it's not "our" money but it is the clubs and there is not an endless supply of it. So therefore if we pay £20m more on what a good left winger might cost then that is £20m less that we might have to spend on a top class CB and LB.

Of course the fee matters because Everton do not have an endless pot of gold!

For the last few years we have overspent on the likes of Bolasie (by 10m), Keane (by 10m), Schneiderlin (by 5m) and Klaassen (by 10m) who we now struggle to get rid of due to their large wages and even if we do manage it we will take a loss in transfer fee (35m) that could have been spent buying us a better box to box midfielder like Toreirra or Ndombele.

James @346 I understand what you are saying about meeting the expectations of the management team but that cannot include us always being held to ransom. The manager might say get me a hard working, pacy full-back in his early 20s like X. By all means try X but if the club are asking for crazy money then look elsewhere for similar traits; there's alot of players out there. That's what the scouting team is surely for, to find a number of possible players to fit the remit.

Spurs are a great example of a club who have spent their money wisely for the most part. They made a few blunders such as Soldado but even then they got a pretty decent chunk of their money back. Meanwhile they have bought young and with great potential (both for playing and sell on) such as Eriksen (12m), Alli (6m), Dier (4m), Trippier (4m), Alderwiereld (14m), Wanyama (13m), Davies (11m), Vertonghen (11m). Of course there have also been the Sissokos and Lamelas but they have built a really strong team whilst having a lower net spend than us over the last 4 years or so.

Ian Burns
350 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:26:51
Sam - 349 - as always a good post.

Your point about Spurs is a good one but remember they went through a wasteful time when the Bale money was said to have been poorly utilised. However, your point stands up but the real difference is they have Levy and we have . . . . yes we all know!

James Marshall
351 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:35:54
Are we always held to ransom? Have the RS not just spent an inordinate amount of money on Keita and Allison? Are they complaining about it or are they looking forward to seeing their new big-money signings perform?

I can't help but feel our issue (our being us the fans) is one of culture - we still have the mentality from years of penny-pinching which makes us all feel terrified to spend any big-money on players.

The PL is awash with money, and we've already recouped some from outgoing players/loans in Robles, Onyekuru, Tarashaj, Garbutt, Mangala, Henen, Rooney, Funes Mori and another large number of players released so the funds are there for incomings.

We don't balance the books, Everton does, and in Farhad Moshiri we have a very successful businessman who's worked for Deloitte and Ernst & Young as well as Usmanov so knows his way around a balance sheet a hell of a lot better than we do.

Ernie Baywood
352 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:53:16
Les Green 343 - I doubt very much it's coming out of Moshiri's pocket. At best it might be a loan.

You don't become a billionaire through gifting money.

I take on board comments regarding the need for us to be prudent with our investment. Clearly we need a plan to be sustainable. But what's the alternative here?

We operate in a market where the top players go to the truly big clubs. The rest of us are fighting for what's left over. The best players of that bunch then attract a premium, discussion if they're young.

We can wait to make our moves, but every transfer window sees the prices increase. What will we pay for a left back now? 30M for someone half decent? What would 30M have got us a year or two ago when it would have seemed a ludicrous fee?

As long as the players are of sufficient quality and the right age then I reckon it's hard to really overspend by a huge amount. It's players failing that impacts sell on far more than simply overpaying in the first place.

Let's hope Richarlison smashes it. We could well look back and be thankful that we jumped in early.

Andrew Ellams
353 Posted 24/07/2018 at 10:56:48
Sam, if Spurs had signed any of those players in the past 12 months they would probably have paid an awful lot more. Last summer the football world went mad and until it brings down one of the big boys it won't change.
Steve Ferns
354 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:01:11
Did you guys not see the FT link? Sure, I'm jumping to conclusions, but I firmly believe Moshiri is Usmanov's puppet, and this is the next move in Usmanov coming out of the shadows and buying the club.

He may well be an "Arsenal fan" but he's never getting the club off Kroenke, and he wants to be in charge of a club more than just owning a share of his own club.

As said before, the dubious means by which he obtained his money leaves a sour taste in the mouth, but right now, we need a springboard back to the top and this is exciting news.

Andrew Ellams
355 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:11:00
Steve, I wouldn't get too excited over the Usmanov thing. These stories came out 2 years ago and even if he was bailing out of Arsenal and jumping ship to Everton it won't happen quickly.
Steve Ferns
356 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:20:52
I understand what you're saying Andrew, but this is a story generated from the FT. Not some tabloid or internet site.

As for things taking their time, well it would do "officially", but I believe Moshiri is his stooge, and that he can simply pump more money into Everton through Moshiri.

This ties in with Kenwright leaving the board in August. Perhaps, that's the date when we will see Moshiri take full control of the club and if so, I expect some of those shares to end up in the hands of Usmanov in due course.

Dave Abrahams
357 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:42:49
Steve (356), can't wait for August Steve, you don't know the actual date do you Steve, I'll be having a nice few bevvied that day.
Steve Ferns
358 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:45:50
Kenwright leaving in August is just rumours for now Dave, and i'm going off what someone else posted on this site. But, the timing of Usmanov and things happening in the background seems to give it all some credence.
Andrew Ellams
359 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:46:07
Steve, part of me hopes your right but I don't think Usmanov will be shedding those Arsenal shares anytime soon.

Also, where does this rumour of Kenwright moving on in August come from? It seems an odd time for something like that to come into effect.

Steve Ferns
360 Posted 24/07/2018 at 11:58:32
A few people have posted on here Andrew. They said something about Kenwright stepping down in August and Moshiri being able to increase his shareholding.

Toffeeweb reported an article in the mirror and it stems from there

Amit Vithlani
361 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:18:04
“As for things taking their time, well it would do "officially", but I believe Moshiri is his stooge, and that he can simply pump more money into Everton through Moshiri.”

Moshiri and Usmanov are business partners in USM and other ventures, that is true according to publicly available sources. To call him a stooge is going abit far Steve, unless you have evidence. Moshiri in his own right is worth GBP 1.8bn or thereabouts. The public evidence suggests he has the resources to follow his own path with Everton.

I also need not remind you that calling Moshiri a stooge of Usmanov was the gist of Panorama’s biased investigation into whether Premier League rules were breached. The evidence was circumstantial and refuted by evidence highlighted by the Guardian.

This excellent article by The Esk is worth a read

http://futbolgrad.com/paradise-papers-everton/

Kenwright was not a billionaire, So when his board comprised of people with ties/who themselves were wealthy, it was fair to question his ability to act independently of what those wealthy shareholders told him. However, again there was never any real evidence of string pulling. Just a bunch of BVI entities providing loans at eye watering rates of interest.

Worth contrasting that with Moshiri’s zero interest funding, with no fixed repayment date, and no additional shares over his 49.9% funding.

Bloke has done a power of good for our finances. I just wish he was just as good at keeping his mouth shut and appointing sound managers. But that is a debate for a different thread!

Sam Hoare
362 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:23:14
James, I think its different with Keita and Allisson as they are genuinely world class players who for the last two years have had some of the best performance stats for their positions in Europe.

You certainly pay top whack for that. That cannot be said for Richarlison. He has potential sure. But so does Justin Kluivert who cost Roma £16m. If we were paying between £15m to £25m for Richarlison then fair enough. Ultimately none of know what we are actually paying!

Andrew @353, yes thats certainly true. Prices have soared since we've had money!

James Marshall
363 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:35:52
Sam, we also need to temper everything with the fact we're Everton. A mid table side with no recent winning history to speak of. We therefore have to pay more for less, and that's just something we have to accept.

We're not Liverpool, much as it pains me to say it. In the modern game we're a nothing club so we pay more for lesser lights, that's just the way the market is. We're also buying a player that we know CAN do it in this division, the only question is for how long.

I'd question whether Keita and Allison will be a success in this league just as much as Richarlison.

Steve Ferns
364 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:37:32
Amit, you appear know more than I. Can you explain where Moshiri got his money. He came to the UK penniless from Iran. He is a top level accountant and worked FOR Usmanov. Then he appears to be gifted a large amount by Usmanov, and has acquired his own fortune since then. No doubt he is a capable business to rise to where he has, but it seems to my limited knowledge that everything Moshiri has acquired has come through his dealings for and because of his relationship with Usmanov.

Maybe "stooge" is the wrong word, but he is very clearly, in my eyes at least, Usmanov's man. But perhaps you can enlighten me further and explain how he acquired his £2bn fortune.

Steve Ferns
365 Posted 24/07/2018 at 12:52:04
James, I thought Allison has looked dodgy at times. Sure, he's a good shot stopper and I bet his YouTube highlight real makes him look better than Stallone in Escape to Victory.

Keita is the real deal though. He looks to be the player Liverpool need and I fear that they will gate-crash the top two with him. That said, Chelsea struggled last year and they had Kante. I do think Keita looks to be real top quality.

Sam Hoare
366 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:14:50
James

"A mid table side with no recent winning history to speak of. We therefore have to pay more for less, and that's just something we have to accept."

I know what you mean but not sure I agree. I'd argue that there are more players of Richarlison's standard around than of Keita's. So surely they should cost alot less?

You do pay more for proven talents in the PL but then arguably both Richarlison and Bolasie had proven that their end product was pretty varied to say the least. Richarlison at least is younger.

It just seems we are in the habit of overpaying. Last Summer was a horrible example of this and best shown perhaps when we paid £25m rising to £30m for Michael Keane (in the last year of his contract) at almost exactly the same time as Leicester paid £12m rising to £17m for Harry Maguire.

James Marshall
367 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:50:08
True - are there any wide players out there that don't have questionable end product though? Players that realistically will come to Everton? Malcom is now being touted as a Barcelona player for example.

We're second tier at best, and clubs know that. Watford are a competitor whether we like it or not and they set the price. If we don't pay the prices set by other clubs what then? Well I guess we buy players from lower leagues or players with less potential than Richarlison.

I can't help feeling this is a realistic target level player, and the fee may appear high but it feels (to me anyway) like the going rate.

James Marshall
368 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:51:50
Steve@365

I agree, Allison is overhyped in my view as well. Still, he can't be any worse than that other keeper the RS have been using. The one that won the Champions League for Real!

Amit Vithlani
369 Posted 24/07/2018 at 13:52:54
Steve, I certainly do not know more than you.

I referred to public sources in challenging the view that Moshiri is Usmanov's stooge.

In my view, you have a particular theory on Moshiri's relationship with Usmanov which is giving a particular hue on the lens through which you view information on their association.

This leads you to the conclusion that Moshiri is "very very clearly in my eyes atleast, Usmanov's man".

Again, strong words, and probably not far off calling Moshiri a "stooge" of Usmanov (which you have now backed off calling him).


Let us examine some points available publicly, then I will give you an equally plausible relationship that Moshiri and Usmanov might hold today which could support Moshiri being his "own" man:

1. Yes Moshiri and Usmanov met in the 1990s. I have read that Moshiri worked for top Accounting firms and then acted as a Personal Advisor to Usmanov. Does this automatically make him "Usmanov's man", ready to his bidding at every turn? Well if it did, then there are a host of personal advisors around the Globe (myself included) who act as Personal Advisors to institutions / individuals who should be deemed "somebody's man". This is not true. A Personal Advisor could also be a trusted confidant, and does not necessarily have to be a subordinate - I disagree with my Principals all the time, and where they don't take my advice, they often execute things without my involvement.

2. Yes Moshiri appears to have been "given" shares in one particular business by Usmanov. But, a source of that information - a Daily Mail article on Moshiri - says nothing further. No evidence or explanation. Was it consideration for a something Moshiri did? Maybe he sold shares to Usmanov in another company, or they had a some form of contract? Hard to jump to a conclusion that the shares were not part of a transaction which involved consideration from Moshiri back to Usmanov for what he received. The Daily Mail article simply says "giving a 10% stake..." not "gifting". If I gave you a 10% stake in my house in exchange for you giving me a 10% stake in your house, it is not a gift. We do not know if this particular piece of information from the journalist is just lazy use of the word "giving", or meant to say "gift", or part of some other transaction. All 3 explanations could be plausible, no?


3. Yes Moshiri sold his shares in Arsenal to Usmanov. But there was clear evidence of money changing hands and an investigation by the Premier League and the Guardian concluded nothing improper. It was an arms length deal by all accounts, and until we have proof to the contrary, it is wrong to assume anything different. Partners sell assets to one another all the time. It does not make the seller of the asset (in this case, Moshiri selling his shares in Arsenal) automatically the buyer's "man".

4. They are now business partners. Perhaps when Moshiri was less wealthy in 1990s, 100% of his work/energies were devoted to working with Usmanov. Who knows. The fact is that Moshiri is now quoted by Forbes as being worth close to $2bn. It is not implausible he holds his wealth in investments independent of Usmanov, is it? So why could he not have changed over time to become more independent of Usmanov (assuming he was in thrall to Usmanov to begin with)? I do not know where Moshiri holds his wealth. We don't know, for example, if he owns a string of real estate worth a few hundred million, which alone could support his investment in Everton.

5. Lastly, I draw your attention to how Private Equity can work. There are examples of Private Equity partnerships with 1 wealthy partner (like Usmanov) underwriting financial investments in the partnership to begin with, and sharing a slice of the returns from the investments with smaller partners (like Moshiri) who may have sourced the transaction, or structured it, or executed it. Those smaller partners (like Moshiri) then use their proceeds to go off and invest in their own transactions, independent of the wealthy benefactor (someone like Usmanov). Those transactions themselves create wealth and those smaller partners (like Moshiri) become wealthy in their own right. History is littered with a few public examples of partnerships dominated by 1 titan but having smaller partners who became wealthy in their own right (with wealth being the platform for independence). A couple of examples: Steve Ballmer (now worth $40bn) was an employee of Microsoft and took over from Bill Gates, eventually taking the company away from the PC-first culture Gates, as the powerful founder had instilled. Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet's partner in Berkshire Hathaway, has in his own right become a respected and significant investor. Neither Ballmer nor Munger can be described as anyone's "man". They are less wealthy than Gates and Buffet, as Moshiri is less wealthy than Usmanov, but that does not automatically mean outright subordination.

So, I think there is a plausible case to say Moshiri could be his own "man". It is plausible that one can acquire independence from a benefactor/sponsor, despite having an extensive partnership with them.

An Usmanov investment in Everton, continuing the theme, could equally be driven by Moshiri's influence/powers of persuasion over Usmanov, as a trusted confidant and business partner.

Steve Ferns
370 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:04:18
Well you clearly do know more than I on this Amit. But no one has been able to explain how he quickly went from an accountant to a business partner and got £2bn in the bank from his humble beginnings.

It also does not explain why the USM hedgefund sponsors us to the tune of £50m. Everton clearly panicked and plastered USM Finch Farm everywhere, because that was not something they asked for. Is it usual for a fund like USM to sponsor a training facility? what do they get out of it? Why do they need to raise brand awareness? There's been a lot written about Usmanov being in the shadows at Everton, and I do think that is the case. Everything I've read about Usmanov and the way he himself acquired his fortune tells me that he does not play with a straight bat, and I would expect him to operate in the shadows with a puppet in charge of Everton, whilst he had one final go to wrest control of Arsenal off Kroenke. Time will tell if that is the case.

I don't deny that this is all conjecture and speculation, there's far too many questions regarding Moshiri and his money, and it only makes sense to me if he has a large fortune that is actually Usmanov's money and he is controlled by him.

We should know a lot more as time goes by, because I doubt Usmanov would remain in the shadows once he sells his arsenal shares. If he does not join Everton, then clearly I've read it wrong and Moshiri is his own man and it's his own money.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

371 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:16:03
Some excellent posts there Amit. Very enjoyable read.

Steve, for someone who self-professes that you work in law, your speculation and conclusions at times seem far removed from the stringent application of proven facts that (should!) apply in your chosen profession.

James Marshall
372 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:16:19
Have we signed him yet?

I just read about Malcom going to Barca being potentially good news for us in that Mina is now even more likely to be offloaded due to the EU rules on foreign players.

Steve Ferns
373 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:23:07
Jay, I don't think you understand what my particular profession comprises of. My particular role requires an active imagination in speculating and applying conjecture and trying to muddy the waters with outlandish theories to make someone less believed.

Criminal Court work is very difficult because it is seat of your pants stuff, and if you want to be meticulous and plan everything, then you're going to struggle in cross-examination as all your plans go out of the window nearly every time witnesses start talking.

If I was a corporate lawyer, I might take your point.

How about you divulge your profession so every time you post I can quibble what you say by cross-referencing your profession?

Erik Dols
374 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:26:37
James #372 I am afraid, and hope to be proven wrong, that Mina is one of the famous World Cup flops. Players that shine in the WC but fail to impress in the league. I expect him to get carded and give away silly penalty kicks too often.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

375 Posted 24/07/2018 at 14:51:35
Steve @ 373.

I am well aware how different arms of the law work. I am well aware that in many cases the verdict can hinge on which lawyer does the best 'discrediting' job on the opposing witnesses. I am well aware that this oft times has little or nothing to do with 'proven facts.'

In such cases, should it be trial by jury, the sitting judge can direct the jury as an aid to reaching their verdict. Justice most certainly is not always done.

In your exchange with Amit I read attentively both his and your submissions. IMO, Amit's are more credible and objective. Your's are more speculative (you admit this yourself) and subjective, based seemingly on nothing more than a personal gut-feeling.

Rather than counter Amit with more credible arguments, you simply compound your speculation. With respect, if you applied the same strategy in a court of law, a half-decent opponent would run rings around you, which for me, Amit certainly does with you.

As for challenging me 'to divulge my profession', ain't gonna happen Steve. I make it a deliberate policy to reveal as little as possible about my private life on TW.

James Marshall
376 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:01:45
Erik - he's really tall. I like that in my centre halves.
Grant Rorrison
377 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:04:04
Hopefully the reason for the delay is someone trying to talk some sense into MS. 40 million quid for a kid that's done nothing in English football. Clearly we haven't learned anything from the last transfer disasters. We are never going to break into the elite group with one second-rate manager after another who cant think of anything more imaginative than trying to reassemble his old team at his new location.
Dermot Byrne
378 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:18:21
Oh Jay, you are overcomplicating a simple footy discussion that has no laws or rules and is mostly based on subjective opinion, speculation and emotions. Thank god!

If we have to post legally credible arguments whatever our professions we would get bored shitless and Steve would never get an hour off!

Denis Richardson
379 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:20:17
Jay 375 - is 'Jay' your really name?
Erik Dols
380 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:24:58
James I agree with that, we could use a tall centre halve or actually any tall player. Somehow our entire squad is not tall at all, including our goalie (which I rate highly BTW). We also could use some speed and young blood in the centre halve position. I must admit that Mina ticks a lot of boxes. According to the ever trustworthy internet he only received one red card in his career. Perhaps I am too negative. Again, hope to be proved wrong.
Steve Ferns
381 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:36:45
Not quite, Jay. The standard of proof in UK criminal courts is on "reasonable doubt". I don't need to win the argument. I need merely cast enough doubt on the opponent. And I do very well at that indeed, thank you very much.

As for conjecture and speculation, why on earth aren't I allowed to indulge in that? As I have said many times before this is simple escapism from real life. If you want to pay me to put forward a professional argument, then rest assured I would catalogue a load of sources and the like and put things forward properly.

I believe Usmanov is lurking in the shadows at Everton. Time will tell if that is correct or not. I'm not seeking to prove that is the case or win you to the cause, I frankly don't care. Amit makes very valid points. But it doesn't satisfy me about Usmanov's role or intentions regarding Everton.

Why is it always you who gets so personal with people on here. You want to remain anonymous, yet you constantly want to shine the spotlight on other people's personal details. My profession has nothing to do with my discussion with Amit. I said that he appears to know more than I did. I don't put forward my own expertise in these matters, so why do you need to bring these things up? It's not the first time you've done it, to me or to others. You don't want to reveal information about yourself, then stop brining things up about others.

Gary Russell
382 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:42:00
Sat here for twenty minutes thinking should I pull the trigger and post... ah, sod it!

Jay, BRZ, with all due respect, you really do come over like a smug git at times. I had a wee poke at you a few weeks ago, which got your back up and venting, claiming I offered nothing to the debate. Sometimes the tone of a post gets some of us offering an opinion on said tone, which is offering something. You are aware of how you come across as you have had a few run ins on here. As mad as it might sound, I am not trying to stir sh*t up, but your condescending manner grates. You will most likely give me an ear full, fair enough...

James Hughes
383 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:43:21
Jay in Brazil

As for challenging me 'to divulge my profession', ain't gonna happen

Totally unfounded speculation on my behalf but I reckon you are criminal mastermind with plans to take over the world. Am I close ?
and do you have a white cat or a 'mini-me'

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

384 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:44:32
Dermont @ 378.

Not over complicating things at all.

I stated why I find Amit's posts to Steve more credible.

I stated why I hold Steve, who outed himself as someone who works in law, to higher standards than some others on TW. It's actually a compliment to Steve, whose contributions I greatly enjoy.

Because Steve is given to outlandish speculation at times which, when pulled up on, he is also given to get resentful about.

Of course, I could just write 'yews r talkin' bollocks' and nowt else.

Is that more in keeping with what you want, Dermont?

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

385 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:46:30
Gary @ 382.

Sorry to disappoint you, but don't recall what you are referring to or even recognize your name.

Soz!

Gary Russell
386 Posted 24/07/2018 at 15:49:10
Aye Jay, you said that a few weeks ago about not ever remembering me posting. Something about a group chickens or some such. Selective memory, no worries
John Daley
387 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:47:48
That Steve Ferns and his fluctuating standards. I wouldn't put it past him to wear a bloody t-shirt and budgie smugglers to a family barbecue, instead of turning up fully suited and booted with 24 Waitrose bangers wedged in a briefcase.

Then, spitting in the face of his own profession, he'd probably start talking togger in a...dead common...non-courtroom tongue, instead of bemoaning how cuts to legal aid are going to lead to sightings of a duty solicitor becoming rarer than a Davy Klaassen start.

Merseysides answer to My Cousin Vinny.

James Marshall
388 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:52:04
Now now ladies, let's all play nice shall we...

In other news, Richarlison's paperwork has been delayed for an unspecified reason but will be completed today. Looking forward to some awkward photos of him in his kit, followed by a generic/dull interview where he reveals it was the "istory of this great club" and "the manager" that swayed him to join Everton.

I can't wait.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

389 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:53:21
Steve @ 381. Cummon Steve, you know that offering "reasonable doubt" is about 'winning the argument'. As you put it, 'casting enough doubt on the opponent.'

Or do you want to tell me you have never sat in a court when pretty much everyone in attendance - including his defending lawyer - knows the accused is guilty of the crime, but their lawyer does their job so well that the accused gets off Scot Free? Is justice really being served?

And Steve, when have I ever denied you - or anybody - the right to offer conjecture and speculation on TW? I'm the polar opposite. For me, anything and everything goes on TW - far more so than the editors.

What I do do is challenge such conjecture and speculation if I think otherwise. Or would you wish to deny me that right?

Now there are a good few on here who immediately, but immediately, get resentful if anything they post gets challenged in any way, somehow believing their view is sacrosanct and unquestionable. It isn't.

Their view can be made robust if they can respond to challenges made to their original post, but some simply don't. They go into immediate meltdown, which in my eyes further undermines their original claims.

From your contributions it is self-evident you are inclined towards deep research. I respect that. But again, the research you sometimes make is not always accurate, or truly representative of the subject, and the conclusions and speculation you reach from your research most certainly are not the definitive ones. It is perfectly legitimate for others to challenge you.

As for your claims about me 'wanting to remain anonymous' and 'always getting personal', errr... hardly Steve. I don't hide in the shadows, do I Steve? I genuinely like to debate points of interest to me.

Clearly, people 'profile' and 'pigeonhole' me on TW, as you yourself attempt in your latest post. I'm not arsed. So in that regard, you really are no different to me in the charges you make towards me, are you Steve?

Will Mabon
390 Posted 24/07/2018 at 16:57:39
"My particular role requires an active imagination in speculating and applying conjecture and trying to muddy the waters with outlandish theories to make someone less believed".


I hope I never find myself in a position where my liberty or financial welfare is subject to such machinations. Or is it all supposed to even out when two of you are at it?

Phil Smith
391 Posted 24/07/2018 at 17:34:21
This has nothing to do with Brands and co. Silva knows we're lacking a creative spark in the middle and he thinks this kid can bring it. Lets hope he can. Centre back and left back next, please.
Jim Jennings
392 Posted 24/07/2018 at 18:50:58
“There's far too many questions regarding Moshiri and his money, and it only makes sense to me if he has a large fortune that is actually Usmanov's money and he is controlled by him.”

Steve,

I hope that is not the full extent of your “active imagination”. If you're going to play the “I'm a lawyer” card and dominate threads then you have to expect people like Jay will challenge your conclusions, especially ones you readily admit are conjecture.

At the same time, if someone doesn't wish to disclose their personal information on a public forum it doesn't mean they are trying to be anonymous.

Jay,

You make a good point on this one however so too does Gary Russell and your pithy “I don't even remember you” reply to him – besides being very predictable – proves the exact point Gary was making.

As Steve says, you do get personal at times and resentful (not to mention narky) when others challenge you, which is precisely what you accuse others of. (Though you are far from being the only one on TW who does.)

Sometimes if enough people tell you the same thing about yourself, it's worth listening to it.

Laurie Hartley
393 Posted 25/07/2018 at 01:20:32
Steve, perhaps... the relationship between Usmanov and Moshiri has changed with the passing of time from employee, to trusted advisor, to business partner, to friend.

I think there has always been a possibility that Everton would become Alisher Usmanov's Plan B but in partnership with his business partner and friend Farhad Moshiri.

Laurie Hartley
394 Posted 25/07/2018 at 06:58:45
John Daley (#387) – I would just like to say thank you for mentioning "My cousin Vinney". I didn't know who he was so I googled him.

As a result of coming across this little snippet I am most definitely going to watch the full movie. It appeals to my sense of humour.

Link

Barry McNally
395 Posted 25/07/2018 at 07:18:06
Laurie (#394), "What is a yute?" is a classic line from that movie.
Laurie Hartley
396 Posted 25/07/2018 at 08:31:51
Barry, "What is a Yute"? – I saw that scene in my meanderings and it threw me at first – depends on where you come from I suppose. Here it means one of these:

https://goo.gl/images/GRft3R

That dog by the way is a "Blue Heeler" – a fine breed. ;)

Barry McNally
398 Posted 25/07/2018 at 08:51:08
Cheers, Laurie, the full movie is defo worth a watch.

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