Williams has been recruited by the Potters to bolster their attempt to return to the Premier League at the first time of asking following their relegation to the Championship in May and it will take up the final year of the 33-year-old's contract at Goodison Park.
Confirmation of the Welsh skipper's switch comes in the wake of news that he, Mirallas, Cuco Martina and Nikola Vlasic were training away from the first team on the order of Marco Silva.
The exclusion of the quartet is an indication that they are surplus to requirements at Everton as Silva tries to whittle his squad ahead of the new season.
Mirallas, who is reportedly in talks about joining Fiorentina for the season, began pre-season in promising fashion but has been used less as the summer fixtures have progressed, while Vlasic, who could be being prepared for a year away on loan, has also been used sparingly.
Martina, a free acquisition by Ronald Koeman a year ago, has barely featured because of an apparent injury while Williams is in talks with Stoke City over a potential season-long loan.
Reader Comments (203)
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1 Posted 02/08/2018 at 14:46:49
2 Posted 02/08/2018 at 14:51:34
I can only imagine the inclusion for Vlassic in this black-booked group of four is his attitude? Surely if he wasn't quite making the grade he'd be loaned out?
Conjecture admittedly, but Unsy had some issues with Vlassic too if I remember correctly, and Koeman didn't play him much at all.
We need to twiddle down the roster. If this is what Silva wants, so be it.
3 Posted 02/08/2018 at 14:53:12
Time to stop being nice and start showing some backbone
4 Posted 02/08/2018 at 14:55:11
5 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:00:08
If Silva wants a squad of two outfield players for each position it could be that he has that now, excluding these four, and he's simply told them (nicely) that as they're not part of his first team squads plans that they won't be training as part of that group so must train from them separately.
I know it sounds more or less the same but it might not be the ruthless, beheading that it's been made to sound like, and what's more it might well be what happens at every club at the start of every new season.
6 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:03:15
Williams was clearly not up to it. Hes far too slow for Silva. Hes too small and he now lacks strength. Hes still a good backs to the wall, defend your penalty area defender and would do well for a team like Cardiff.
Martina is just not good enough. Sure he could be back up to Coleman but Kenny has potential and is probably better than him already. Therefore, Martina is too old to waste time on. It was also telling that he played right wing and not right back in the early training matches.
Vlasic is the big surprise. I dont know whats gone on there for him to be out of favour. Hes young and talented. In the first real training video we saw him with the yellow bib playing not ways in attack. Silva clearly had a good look at him. He figured prominently in the early pre-season games, but he didnt do enough.
Could it be that one of him or Sandro needs to go and Sandro is going nowhere on those wages. Sandro also works harder and shows some signs of being a player (albeit a backup) and maybe silva thinks he can work on Sandro long term and turn him around as he is still young and can learn and is eager to learn.
7 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:03:34
8 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:15:10
Looking up on the cull front.
More importantly where's the new CB(s)?
9 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:16:14
They have clearly stated that we need to move players on, I have no problem with these four moving on.
Vlasic might come good as he has age on his side but he hasnt done enough Im afraid. This will allow Dowell more opportunities in my opinion which can only be a good thing.
10 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:16:37
Also Bainsey has been one of our better performers preseason so we buy a new LB.
While I think this has been needed for a while the length of time spent on getting Digne would have been better spent on a proven goalscorer, a MF enforcer and 2 quality CBs.
I am not overly impressed so far.
11 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:21:01
Rennes game confirmed the need for new blood.
Seems Vlasic not going to get a chance-times up on the others so right to move on.
Not sure Sandro should not be moved on- like Klassen the Premier league is not for him.
Need to make more signings and competition for places- quite a few need to play for their Everton careers before the next window.
Transition needed but will take time.
12 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:27:18
1. Start with a relatively blank slate. Let the management team take a good look at everyone to make assessments.
2. Buy in most clearly lack areas: a) Strong, dangerous left winger- done b) new left back- done c) new CB- in progress
3. Get the unwanted players off wage bill- Rooney, Robles, Mori, Klaassen etc gone with Williams, Mirallas and more on the way.
So far so good.
First team is stronger. Squad is smaller. Wage bill is smaller.
Just need a CB (Lascelles please) and possibly a CM (Loftus-Cheek?) to add to first team now.
The problems of the last 2 years were never going to be fixed in one or even two or three transfer windows but there seems more clarity and sense being applied now.
13 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:30:00
14 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:30:27
Personally I was impressed with his relentless work rate and improved confidence, although the end product wasn't there.
15 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:30:36
I also think a lot of people are over hyping Vlasic far too early.
16 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:34:46
Now all we need are a couple of CBs, a midfielder and a forward. Easy (cough, cough).
17 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:49:19
18 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:50:33
19 Posted 02/08/2018 at 15:55:26
Im a little surprised at Vlasic, but all things considered, he isnt going to get games at the moment, and he needs them. Its also a fact that despite having few opportunities, he shows promise, but nothing that leads me to believe he is ready for a regular place just yet. I would like to see him loaned out. Somewhere where he can play in a more competitive league than the Croatian league he has come from. Make a longer term call in twelve months.
On the others. No real surprise. Nothing personal against thrm, but they are not good enough, are over the hill or have frankly been here too long. You can pick out who is who.
20 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:07:30
A loan (to Leipzig, leave Lookman alone!!) would work well, we then get him back should he do well.
An attitude problem would surprise me given he was playing for a no-name team this time last year, we plucked him from obscurity and gave him his chance so you'd have (thought) hoped he'd be grateful.
Williams/Mirallas/Martina - how many of us expect them to get on the bench, let alone in the 11?
21 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:20:15
I've heard Vlasic to Newcastle on loan, not a bad move if true
22 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:27:27
23 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:30:11
Does he still have a strop?
24 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:39:36
25 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:44:07
27 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:48:09
That leaves us with a 25 man squad of (assuming a 4-3-3)
Gk - Pickford, Stekelenburg
RB - Coleman, Kenny
LB - Digne, Baines
CB - Keane, Holgate, Jagielka, Pennington
CM - Schneiderlin, Besic, Gueye, Davies
CM - Sigurdsson, Dowell
RW - Walcott, Sandro
LW - Richarlison, Lookman
CF - Tosun, Niasse, Calvert-Lewin
Not sure where Bolasie fits in.
Also could mean loans for Baningime, Connolly and Robinson, which would continue to aid their development.
I think it's clear from this that centre-back is still the big area we need to recruit. I wouldn't like to be relying on Jagielka and Pennington if injuries hit.
28 Posted 02/08/2018 at 16:58:49
29 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:05:58
I dont know who the main negatives influences are, but hopefully Silva has identified them and is getting ready to ship them out. No player, regardless of ability, should be retained if they are a negative influence on the team as a whole.
30 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:07:26
The recent interview seems to suggest he is homesick. I thought the intervention of his sister was inappropriate. Hope he is loaned out to somewhere suitable so as to develop and mature. Good Luck!
31 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:08:17
32 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:13:27
33 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:17:41
34 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:20:53
35 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:28:38
Brands and Silva are at the beginning of their tenure. Patience is needed as they sort out this mess so they can begin building our proud club back to relevancy.
36 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:33:59
It's like many players who our scouts only seem to notice when they happen to play against us. And that's been reason enough, apparently, for us to buy them. From Jermain Beckford to Aruna Kone to Yannick Bolasie...
37 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:43:14
38 Posted 02/08/2018 at 17:43:17
As for making players train alone or in a small group. I'm against it since I do not think grown men should be humiliated in this manner. We may not like them but I know I wouldn't like to be treated like a naughty schoolboy. If you don't want a player fine put him on the transfer list and sell him or bite the bullet cancel their contract pay them off and let them go on a free.
39 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:01:10
I suspect like a few others that this might be down to attitude problems. His sister and dad also had a few things to say about his lack of games.
Before Williams goes to Stoke, I'd be offering him and Vlasic plus £25m for Lascelles. Newcastle need a replacement CB, tick! They want attacking players and were recently linked with Vlasic, tick! And They get a big fat cheque that will please Ashley.
40 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:04:37
Theres more guesswork in the thread than a series of 'who's done it' crime mysteries.
41 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:18:23
42 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:18:44
43 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:19:11
44 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:25:15
45 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:26:17
46 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:34:55
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Martinez was not a tough character, and was always way too nice. I'm not saying nice and that made me like him, as I thought he was a terrible and one dimensional Manager. I just cant see him lecturing players for fear of not having them on side. I think it was a slow decline in discipline amongst the players from mid-way through his 2nd season, and we all know how players seemed to down tools for the duration of his final season in charge. So the stench at Everton and player unrest has been festering amongst players for 3-4 years now, since the self respecting players under Moyes
47 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:35:00
He wont be the first manager to find out Bentley boy can't be trusted, but at least he found out early and has acted.
Silvas's job is to separate the wanted from the unwanted. Brands has the unenviable job of getting them out of the club. Both seem to be getting down to work now... but how the fuck has Schneiderlin convinced them he is worthy of their trust?
48 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:40:11
49 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:41:18
50 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:43:39
Personally, I always thought it was Lukaku. Great striker but the 'big I am', got away with openly disrespecting the club under Martinez, then Koeman did it for him. From my own experience in teamwork you can't have one ego (even justifiably) thinking he is better than the team and his teammates. The squad kept rotting even after he moved on.
51 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:48:59
It was Something a scouser would describe as a shit-house trick, and it showed me a bit more about the character of both these men.
Hopefully Snides is getting saved for next week Darren, because this would give most of us a massive boost just before the big K/O.
52 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:54:14
53 Posted 02/08/2018 at 18:57:54
54 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:20:13
55 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:27:40
24 times in 3 seasons. An average of 8 a season. Compared with 18 times in the last two seasons, an average of 9. We have actually managed to get slightly worse in that respect since Martinez left.
Moyes's record was 55 times in 11 seasons. An average of 5.
56 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:38:56
I was at a game with a friend a few years ago when Martinez was in charge. I cant remember which season it was but we had been on a decent run.
We won the game but I remember saying to my mate that the body language of the players was all wrong. From the moment they stepped onto the pitch, they didnt look like a happy, right-knit bunch. It was even more evident after our goals. The TV cameras focus on the scorer of course, but I noticed the other players reaction to our goals just wasnt . right.
Whatever has crept into our dressing room certainly started during the Martinez years and subsequent managers have failed to address it. I dont want to speculate on who might be responsible but I only hope Silva finds them and gets it sorted. As I said earlier, tactics, ability and team selection dont matter if the players arent happy.
57 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:46:38
By the way I think you'll find there was quite a few that went to United and won that year. We did hammer the arse in possibly Martinez finest game but you neglect to mention the thrashings handed out by the RS, the constant plucking losses out of the jaws of victory, the mind numbing shite served up week after week that all but destroyed the atmosphere at GP and of course made it a kindergarten to come to for all opposing teams. But hey you respect him if you like, whatever floats your boat
58 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:51:42
You mean from us going from regularly challenging for the title under Moyes?
Sorry, but I'm really not sure what point you're making there mate.
59 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:53:01
The only reason Martinez was lucky enough to amass a record points was because he had a high pressing attack, that when partnered with his inherited and extremely tight Moyes defence, it made for some exciting football. However, by the start of his 2nd season, the reliable Moyes defence was being changed and moved around, and defenders were expected to bring the ball out from the back. They were defenders for fuck sake, not forwards, and it went down hill from there. And the only reason we beat Man Utd at Old Trafford was because at that stage of our season, Evertons defence wasn't quite yet creaking. Couple this with Moyes trying to get Man Utd playing like Everton did under him and the result was inevitable.
I once read an extensive and very compelling article about Martinez and Brendan Rogers in 2015 that likened these muppets to Guardiola's disciples. Both Manager's testified to being huge fans of his football and studied his work closely. The only problem with that is, not matter how much you study and try to emulate him, they could never be close to him. In my opinion, Martinez blagged two years as Everton Manager whilst continually telling us all along that the team is excellent after a 5-0 hammering.
And anyone who says, give him a break as he did get to the world cup final, a lot of their games were not entertaining, and on paper he had at least one superb player in every position, so wouldn't that be expected???
60 Posted 02/08/2018 at 19:59:43
61 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:00:15
They'll disagree with the manager on tactics, selection, training, who's being paid what etc.
If the manager wants to put the emphasis on attacking, the defenders wont be happy, if he's defence minded the attackers wont like it.
As far as the four training separately, maybe they just want to be playing regularly and Silva cant give them that.
62 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:02:47
63 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:04:47
You forget how poor we were when he took over. A bit more belief and we could, probably should have won the Europa league in 2007 and the fa cup in 2009. He should have gone then but that shouldn't detract from the fact that he left Martinez a decent squad and Martinez destroyed everything built in 11 years in a couple of short years. We now have to go through this rebuilding process again and will probably be a good 4 or 5 years at least before we are back to how we were when Moyes left. No we weren't challenging for the league but given the right manager we could easily have been in that top 4. Instead we are miles from being at the level of the top 4. Let this sink in, when Moyes left you could consider ourselves on par with spurs, look at the difference now in 5 years. That's the point I'm making. One team progressed and one regressed.
64 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:09:18
There is no doubt that we might have missed Fellaini, but I don't think Martinez liked the player anyway. Martinez liked players to keep possession and play it on the ground, whilst Fellaini plays most of his best football in the air, so I would never say that was an issue. The reality is that he inherited what I believe to have been either the 2nd or 3rd tightest defence under Moyes, to literally doing the opposite to parking the bus. Fellaini going is a poor excuse.
65 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:14:35
66 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:23:36
By the way, Ashley Williams is a lot of things but a troublemaker 😳 - an all time classic TW conspiracy theory that is.
Martinez is a clown though. That be true.
67 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:24:47
A shame he did not get ten or was it eleven years like Moyes, instead Moshiri came in and made his mark. Roberto evolved and had a plan B that ensured Belgium progressed in the world cup and they lost to the eventual world champions. Shame he was not given the chance to evolve with us.
Good on Silva sending the message to our current passengers- lets give Marco time.
68 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:26:51
Agree totally in what you say about him forging a squad that would fight tooth and nail. Been saying it for a while regarding our transfers, I'm not mich fussed on 'big names' or the the 'next big thing' . Its that determination pride and being in it together, bleeding for each other that I want..thats the kind of spine you want to build on.
I always think its difficult to compare though Dave. Its unfair to compare 11 years with barely 3. We have no idea what would have been created if Martinez, or Koeman for that matter were given the same 11 years to really put their stamp on things.
You're right in saying we have regressed, we certainly have...fingers crossed we're going in the right direction but it is going to take time. Time and patience, which in todays game are very elusive commodities.
69 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:29:20
However, we were not challenging top teams (reasons for this are debatable) and I thought his record in cups and results / performances away from home was extremely poor.
70 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:35:24
71 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:45:01
As Steve Ferns said, Schneiderlin is only here because he's the only one who can pass a ball on a good day. Now, I've just heard that Spurs will listen to offers for Dembele. That's the kind of player we need, if he'll come here.
72 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:45:58
73 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:46:50
74 Posted 02/08/2018 at 20:49:28
Martinez bought poorly in my opinion. Bought too may players who didn't buy into the club and couldn't care less when it was all going wrong. Even the so called one of our own, Barkley played for himself. Martinez would have took us down in my opinion had he been given another season.
I think Silva should be given time because of the state of the club now. Poor attitude, poor fitness, poor team spirit and a totally unbalanced squad, it will take time to correct.
Peter #69 that's why Moyes had to go, total lack of belief that we could win away and win cups but he did build a team that could and should have won away and won trophies.
75 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:03:19
I do believe that the rot started when 'he left' Having spouted about the grass being greener etc etc, the twat upped sticks and left his team in the lurch. If there was any fault on Martinez (and I wasn't really a fan after his 1st yr. ) it was that he had to pick up the pieces and probably moral was at a low ebb.
Steven Gerrard slipped on his arse but Moyes "left" and the whole club 'slipping on it's arse' and is still floundering as a result. The blame here is not only with Martinez or his successor but the fact that this club was jilted by a 'glory seeker' who as it turned out couldn't cut the mustard... and a Chairman who has overseen the whole fucking mess for far too long.
ps: I though he was due to go this month – but he will cling to office until they carry him out.
76 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:15:28
Totally agree with you on Kenwright though, he's been a leech on us for years and as you did, I thought he would be gone this month, although I guess there's still plenty of time.
77 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:26:27
78 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:31:03
He was, and is, utter shite. He relegated Wigan and fucked off. His appointment at our club was shameful.
79 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:32:57
80 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:34:50
81 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:35:02
82 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:38:33
83 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:40:17
84 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:42:07
Its the one thing I hate about this club the need to always have a scapegoat. Its absolutely ridiculous.
85 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:43:53
Managed the same club for 11 years. Which by modern standards is an eternity. Decides to leave to manage a club with more money, a much bigger profile and far better prospects yet he's a glory seeker. This is the same attitude as those who think any famous scouser who doesn't live in Liverpool is a traitor.
Is a manager not entitled to improve himself and the living standards of his family? Was he a glory seeker when he jilted PNE for us? People move on. We are not living in a petrified forest. He wanted his shot at the elite. He took it but it didn't work out. Such is life. As least he can say he had a go instead of regretting that he didn't. All managers want to manage the top clubs.
Moyes made a decent fist of it with the resources at his disposal. He got us into the top 4 and an FA Cup Final on a shoestring budget. It is not for us to pine about what might have been but to concentrate on what is.
86 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:44:16
87 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:45:24
I'm afraid that this business of players being separated from the main team in training is unnecessary and will not help either the players or the club. Whilst players are with us, on no matter what salary, they should be treated with respect. Too reminiscent of Koeman “the hard man” in the way he treated Niasse who showed great dignity.
So, while we're are at it, let's get rid of Jagielka and Keane because they have struggled preseason and on current form are not good enough. What about Bolasie? What about Schneiderlin?
There is no logic in getting rid of Vlasic who has showed promise. Yes, he's inconsistent but he's young and can play in different positions. A bit baffling when you consider that Marco is keen on young talent. Let's hope this is a loan to give him first team experience and develop.
Losing Vlasic and keeping Schneiderlin is equally baffling. We have more than enough players in that position and if pre season is the judge, he is a liability. We have 4 players in that position who are all better (Besic, McCarthy, Baningime, and of course Gueye).
Good luck to Kevin, he has been excellent and looked all right pre-season. Williams has been poor but good when in his first season, too old when we bought him. Well done, Sam, for turning Martina into a good left back but not a long-term prospect. Let's wish them all the best if they leave and get them back as “squad” players if they don't.
Agree with you Dave, Moyes an excellent manager with no money to spend. We shouldn't let the nature of his leaving impact on how good he was. Rob you should be ashamed of yourself.
88 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:46:10
89 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:49:04
The fact that Browning, Galloway and Garbutt failed to replace the ageing defence hasn't helped. We've thrown away millions on failed managers... nearly £20m was thrown at the Under-23 squad. I don't fully agree with letting go Funes Mori or Robles but here's hoping when we finish this window we've replaced the leaving players with better ones and not worse.
90 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:49:24
91 Posted 02/08/2018 at 21:54:13
All 3 need to leave the club. Niasse isnt good enough. Bolasie isnt good enough. However I like the new signings and we now have a core of around 6 guaranteed starters so things are looking up
92 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:00:00
93 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:08:25
Why did he change in interviews from a genial guy with a twinkle in his eye, with good points to make, into a gibberish-speaking bore ? Not sure this has ever been successfully explained.
94 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:12:00
95 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:22:53
On the Martinez debate: I think we were all fooled by that first great season but by the second season the warning lights were well and truly flashing and the third season was just horrendous. The penultimate game v Sunderland was very much like Smith's last game at Middlesbrough. Totally inept. Martinez would most certainly have got us relegated.
The false dawn was Koeman, and Walsh, and the resultant shambles of a season. Brands and Silva at least appear to have some sort of plan and are moving the players out who have been sucking the life, and cash, out of this club. Martinez wasn't a clown: just a poor manager and he proved this in the World Cup.
96 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:26:47
97 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:32:23
Mirallas talented feet scuppered by his head. Good luck also.
98 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:34:56
TY Richard @72. Between Digne, Richarlson, and hopefully a new CB, we're looking up. Positive reports from discerning TWers on incoming players always lights the Hope candle for me.
Good luck to Ashley Williams too. Never my favorite, but I hope he does well at Stoke.
99 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:40:22
However, Mirallas definitely has previous form as a trouble maker and may have been separated because he is a bad influence. As I recall, Vlasic's sister and father also blew their mouths off in the press just after he first joined us, saying that he was too good a player to be on the bench and that he deserved to be a regular starter, so that may be manifesting itself again in the form of Vlasic himself. etc.
We have learned tonight that Williams has signed for Stoke City on loan for next season and there is a strong rumour that Mirallas is to sign in the next 24 hours for Florentina on loan and that Vlasic is going to join Newcastle (whether that is a loan, a sale or part of a deal that will bring Lescalles our way I don't know).
However, given that everyone is agreed that the squad needed pruning, it looks like at least three of the four mentioned are about to leave the club more or less immediately.
In the circumstances, I expect that Martina will also be leaving on loan, or by sale pretty soon, so it seems that the culled players, training alone were already well on their way out of the club before this instruction was given.
In fact to put another slant on it they may have been told "No need to come in to train with the team, since you are leaving, but if you want to come in and use the clubs training facilities to keep your fitness up in the meantime, you can". which, of course, puts an entirely different complexion on it.
100 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:41:07
All we heard from this forum was that Moyes had been here long enough, the squad was old and stale, he never gave youth a chance and we'll never do anything with him at the helm.
All of a sudden he's the messiah again.
I give you the great one's last season...
A midfield consisting of Hitzelsperger, Gibson, Fellaini, Osman and an injured Pienaar or Mirallas and a strikeforce of Jelavic.
Compared to Martinez - Barry, McCarthy, Barkley, Osman and an injured Pienaar or Mirallas, with Lukaku up front.
Moyes did well, but he should have gone many years earlier.
Martinez didn't do as badly as people make out - he lost all confidence in what he was doing by the 3rd season. He had to go, but what we wouldn't give to be the leagues highest scorers by December (his 3rd season) and to narrowly miss out on 2 cup finals.
101 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:42:48
Those particular players will have to really show something different this season for Everton to get into the top six. Not too sure that this Lascelles guy will improve the defence but then I never rated Van Dijk and look how much RS wanted him.
102 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:48:34
103 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:50:13
104 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:52:09
Anyway the other big question is midfield, do we need a deep-lying midfielder who can distribute or a box to box type player? Probably both in an ideal world. Looks to me like Silva is prepared to give Schneiderlin a go at the ‘regista' role (I really think we missed a trick with Max Meyer) in which case I reckon he wants a box-to-box to compete with the likes of Gueye and Davies (who needs a lot more minutes this year and could even be best served by a loan).
105 Posted 02/08/2018 at 22:53:18
I hope one day we'll find out what has gone down over these 3 years. £120m on Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Scheneiderlin, Williams, and Klaassen. Oh my lord...
106 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:06:37
I would also be happy if we were in for Nzonzi.
107 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:08:40
On Sandro I just wonder whether he might not just have a bit of Vardy about him? Coming from non-league Fleetwood to Championship Leicester at the age of 25 (Sandro's just turned 23 by the way) must have seemed like arriving in a new country to him and in his first season he pretty much stank the place out, so much so that he was apparently on the verge of quitting football altogether had Nigel Pearson not persuaded him to stay, get his head down and learn. Vardy says that's exactly what he did and the results speak for themselves. Here's hoping anyway.
108 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:19:59
109 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:20:04
Then move on:
Bolasie £10M not another loan deal.
Sandro, Galloway, Vlasic – okay for loans as still young.
Browning needs testing and keeping or selling, at 24 it's now or never so sell or sign not loan.
Also, I wanna add Lookman must stay, and any so-called fan wanting Davies or Calvert-Lewin gone needs to wobble there heads as these lads played well in a poor side last season and are Premier League ready at young ages.
110 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:24:58
Leader my backside, don't come back!
111 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:25:58
112 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:26:16
113 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:45:02
Moyes was oft-lauded for having 'The finest squad since XXXX' and in many peoples opinion, all he had to do was change his defensive ethos a bit and take off the hand brake.
Martinez came in and again, all he did for the first few months was do exactly that... or so it seemed. Then he seemed to go full throttle with the 'Philosophy' thing and ended up throwing out the Moyes defensive baby (the fitness coaches, physios and others too... can't say we actually missed Steve-clipboard-Round though) with the Moyes 'knives to gun fights' bath water.
All it ever needed was 'The Goldilocks Option' of Not too much Moyes and not too much Martinez.
We've may have just had the clock reset to 2005 and have to start again.
114 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:46:15
Funes Mori and Williams are gone, so I'd expect to see at least one centre-back in before I'd be desperate to see another couple out the door.
Anyone know what James McCarthy's situation is? Is there any chance he'll ever overcome his injury problems?
115 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:53:39
Martinez did incredibly well that summer to bring in the inspired signings of McCarthy, Barry and Lukaku. Sadly it never got any better in terms of transfers than that.
His inability to adequately replace the remaining relics of the Moyes era. In part due to a lack of proper funding at that time and consequent need to go for the cheaper option, Funes Mori, over the more expensive Van Dijk. Also, the fact that Martinez didn't appear to have clue about or much interest in defending anyway, ultimately leading to his demise.
The vitriol aimed at a man for having higher ideals than just treading water year in year out for eternity and actually publicly claiming that the goal is to be successful and win something, while attempting to play football the 'right' way too is... wel…. incredible.
Given the complete wastage of millions of pounds and 2 years of the project only to seemingly do an about turn with the appointment of Silva, I wonder if Moshiri is regretting his hasty attempt to appease the baying masses in 2016?
116 Posted 02/08/2018 at 23:55:18
I would mind Dembele. Alderweireld probably too much. We are toothless in attack, weak in creation and we have very little in the heart of defence. So that's 3 needed. But apart from that... this is our year. Will the real Siggy please stand up?
117 Posted 03/08/2018 at 00:29:01
In his memoirs, Richard Nixon said: 'When I got to the White House, the Vietnam War was Lyndon Johnson's war; six months later, it was my war'. That's how we should look at things, and I'm sure that's how Brands and Silva will look at them.
118 Posted 03/08/2018 at 00:35:50
Martinez first season, with the handy additions that you mentioned, was actually the last hurrah for the old stalwarts of that Moyes team. It was the last season of peak Baines. The last one for Ossie. It was all downhill for Howard, Jags, and Distin. Mirallas has done virtually nothing since.
As for Van Dijk, I was listening to the Monday Night Club on Radio 5 the other week and Pat Nevin was on it. I think Martinez knows Nevin from his time in Scottish football, possibly around the time Nevin was either winding his playing career down or maybe doing the chief exec role thing he did for a while at a club Martinez was at, I forget where.
Anyway, from the way Nevin talks it seems he and Martinez are on pretty good terms. Whenever he mentions Martinez its "Robbie" and he speaks highly of him as a manager and a man.
The reason I mention this is that during the programme I listened to Van Dijk was discussed. Nevin indicated that he had recommended Van Dijk to TWO Premier League managers, suggesting he had said something along the lines of "Go up to Celtic, take Van Dijk, you will get him for £10 million or under and you wont regret it."
I'd be very interested to know if Martinez was one of those managers. From the way Nevin talks about Martinez, I think he was.
119 Posted 03/08/2018 at 01:06:34
Keane is not good enough, or simply needs competition. We need 2 centre-backs. a midfielder a backup winger and an attacker to help poor Tosun. Niasse is not good enough for me. Staying with Keane and Schneiderlinin the first team means we are going to aim for top 7 again.
120 Posted 03/08/2018 at 01:34:47
His job now is to prepare for Wolves and not to culture the self-image of players who are on the way out. It is still a pity that Vlasic has been unable to demonstrate value to the club. He is a very good athlete, he seems to be intelligent and he probably has a future with another team.
121 Posted 03/08/2018 at 01:46:11
122 Posted 03/08/2018 at 01:53:04
One of many players that simply don't belong in an Everton shirt. Which is a shame because I thought he was a good signing at the time and looked to shore up the dodgy Martinez defense.
Our pre-season performances have been abysmal but I actually thought players like Mirallas and Sandro put in decent shifts. But there's more to it than that, we have to try and get results against premier league opponents, no time for sentiment. It's all about the team.
Digne is as yet unproven in the premiership. A centre-back desperately needed, and a solid striker.
Rome wasn't built in a day but the Brands - Silva strategy is looking good so far. Proof is in the pudding, expectations much like the England team going into the World Cup.
123 Posted 03/08/2018 at 01:54:19
124 Posted 03/08/2018 at 03:50:06
125 Posted 03/08/2018 at 04:43:35
126 Posted 03/08/2018 at 04:58:14
Moyes assembled our best team for decades, Pienaar and Osman were proper footballers and in Baines and Coleman we had the most swashbuckling pair of full-backs possibly in world football. His problem was he maxed out. He didn't believe we could go any further so how could he have convinced the players? Even if he was given the funds to bring in that one missing ingredient, a top striker, he'd have probably stood him down when we played the big boys.
Martinez was a complete joke. I sometimes think those who sang about him reconvening the School of Science are embarrassed by their foolish claims. We didn't need a great manager to progress with that team, just somebody braver than Moyes. Instead we got this fool.
He destroyed that team. he put an end to the attacks of Baines and Coleman by making them stay in their own half and indulge in his possession obsession.
I feel sick when I hear of this mythical attacking football. The longer he was here, the less we came over the half-way line. The way we knocked it around at the back until somebody fucked up was the most painful and mindless exercise.
Andy Crooks is a little harsh when saying he was the worst we ever had, but he was up there... at least I thought he was until straight talking Ron and fireman Sam came along. Neither of whom dared come out to play.
Fuck me, we've had some Frankie Howards in charge, all overseen by a Kenneth Williams in the boardroom... Carry on, Everton!
128 Posted 03/08/2018 at 05:56:59
129 Posted 03/08/2018 at 06:09:57
130 Posted 03/08/2018 at 07:25:36
131 Posted 03/08/2018 at 07:40:42
We need two defenders, the thought of anyone partnering Keane gives me the jitters to be honest so Id be looking at a whole new central duo (Jags cant be doing it and for me Holgate is flimsy as centre half).
We still havent addressed our need for a ball carrying central midfielder nor am I really happy with our lack of striking options.
133 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:02:15
In terms of who that new CB is Id like Lascelles but I think Zouma could be a good option. Hes big, strong and surprisingly fast. He was Stokes best player last year and would surely be available for £15-20m.
Another cheap-ish option is Christopher Jullien at Toulouse who is 6 ft 5 and was in the top 3 defenders in Europe last year for aerial duels. Again he is surprisingly quick. Probably get him for around £15m.
134 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:05:35
135 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:23:32
Should have got Zouma last summer, to think he spent a year on loan at Stoke is frustrating given our defensive woes that have gone on for years.
136 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:34:14
As far as progress with signings is concerned, Brands has no magic wand and, in this crazily time-reduced window, he was up against it from the moment of his appointment.
However, I suspect the Kenwright meeting was called to enforce the importance of getting players OFF the payroll rather than bringing them IN and I think he's 'passed muster' on that front.
I just hope there will be no last - minute signing of second-raters to re-clutter the roster as in recent seasons. Let's see if it is Silva who is the magician.
138 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:46:53
139 Posted 03/08/2018 at 08:55:31
Had Moyes been in charge of Belgium, I think he would have said 'if someone offered me a loss in overtime before the game against Brazil I would have taken it. I am proud of what we have done up against a strong team like Brazil'.
He would probably have played 8 defenders against Brazil and hoof it up to Fellani and hope for the best.
140 Posted 03/08/2018 at 09:21:48
This Jullien lad looks like a very good option is its true we're after him, but I have faith in M&M at the minute. They seem to have decent grasp on what we need and what we don't. If we could get 2 CB, Batshuayi and a creative or box to box midfielder Id be delighted but I think thats asking a tad much, but I live in hope.
I'd love Keane to prove me wrong but Ive never been impressed by him and his arms bother me, he has too many elbows..his arms look like flamingos legs 😜 One CB at least has to be the priority?
141 Posted 03/08/2018 at 09:26:42
142 Posted 03/08/2018 at 09:27:39
Forget about Moyes forget about Martinez, I know its hard forgetting about Ronald, and Allardyce, but it really is the only way forward, especially considering how long it is since we even won at Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea.
Lets get behind our new manager, because when Evertonians unite, and get right behind their team, then Goodison, becomes a place that not many teams enjoy playing inside, and it will even become a pleasure again, which is what we all need most ?
If this happens then Marco, might even have to change a couple of letters in his surname to “MARCO FUCKING SILVER” even if he will never be better than “KENWRIGHTS—-DAVID MOYES!”
143 Posted 03/08/2018 at 09:40:11
144 Posted 03/08/2018 at 09:58:10
Every team needs an outlet, someone who can to get on the ball and make things happen, run at the oppositions defence and create chances.
I can only presume the club have decided Bolasie must be kept because we over paid and we can't take another massive financial loss after Klassen. Otherwise he's as much a team player as Trump.
I know what Mirrallis is about, frustrating but able to score and create chances. Bolasie is just a unique individual but has done nothing.
Vlasic has a football brain to go with his talent. He'll be a top player but it looks like he's not going to get another chance with us. Big mistake. He's just needs a few years to grow, adapt and settle. He reminds me of Ericson at Spurs.
146 Posted 03/08/2018 at 10:12:59
In common with most fans, I have no idea whether the players we've brought in are any good, but there seems to be a pattern to the players we're bringing in. Highly rated, expensive, young, but just off the top teams radar. It seems to be a kind of halfway house between the bargain bin shopping of Moyes and the Harrods approach of Koeman. Koeman paid whatever the going rate was for experienced professionals, but this seasons transfers seem to be a bit more risky. Whether that pays off or now only time will tell.
Interesting to see that they have let Williams go before bringing in his replacement. That's also quite a change in direction transfer wise. In the past, we would probably have waited until later in the window, and after we had got someone else in. They seem to be ticking them off one by one, rather than bringing in several very quickly at the start or end of the transfer window as with previous managers. I quite like this seemingly methodical approach as it appeals to my sense of orderliness (whether it's any good as a transfer strategy we'll see by next Thursday). Also, it's less stressful than all that buying them all on the last day nonsense we've seen in the past.
Whether the new transfer policy turns out to be a success remains to be seen. At least, Moshiri seems to be giving Brands and Silva more or less free rein to get this right or wrong. In the past, BK seems to have been more central to transfer strategy, but this summer even if he is party to negotiations, the overall strategy is quite different.
On a side note, it's good to see that the old Moyes v Martinez debate has started up again. Another by-product of this strategy) not enough excitement to get us talking about the next season, not enough negativity to be calling for the new manager's head (just yet). COYB
147 Posted 03/08/2018 at 10:17:50
I don't believe Utd are interested in Mina. He is not a Mourinho type of player and is totally unproven at the top level. Mourinho wants Alderweireld and this Mina nonsense is likely an effort to drive Spurs' ridiculous valuation down. Alderweireld wants to go to Utd and if he doesn't go this summer then a release clause of £25 million will be activated next summer. Once Levy accepts that Alderweireld will only sign for Utd and they aren't going to pay £75 million, a deal will most likely be made and that will end there interest in Mina.
It would seem that they need to move a CB out before they can move one in. If we believe their interest in Mina is real then what better way to sabotage their move for him than by making them believe we intend to buy Rojo, only to pull out at the last minute. (Probably not how Brands operates)
I don't want Mina anyway. He doesn't want to come and is a big risk. Rojo is less of a risk but is overpriced and his wages are too high. I can't believe he'll be the one.
It's all fun and games. I just hope Brands is playing a blinder.
148 Posted 03/08/2018 at 10:52:11
In what way is it 'daft' to point out the truth? The facts are that besides Baines who was 29 and Coleman, every player in the back 5 plus most of our midfield were in their early to mid thirties when Moyes left and were consequently nearing the end of playing at the highest level.
Jagielka has been a joke for at least 3 seasons and Baines is a shadow of the player he was under Moyes. That either of them still get a game says more about our transfer failures over the last few seasons. Thankfully the signing of Digne will hopefully rectify one problem. We're still waiting for a competent centre half or two.
149 Posted 03/08/2018 at 10:54:50
Looking at Kevin's squad at # 27 I asked myself "who is the leader and who are his trusted lieutenants (enforcers) in this group".
My answer is no one, although Seamus Coleman did come under consideration. He is the nearest thing we have got to a leader but he is not it. He will make a fine lieutenant as will Pickford, Walcott, and my surprise choice Besic.
I don't think we have had a leader since Phil Neville. Not the greatest footballer in the world but when he came Moyes made him captain and the team, which contained some strong personalities (Pienaar, Arteta, Osmon, Cahill) accepted him as their leader.
My conclusion, we need a centre back and a leader - someone who when he walks in the dressing room for the first time will command their immediate respect.
150 Posted 03/08/2018 at 10:58:49
The centre back's the obvious one, as I don't think we'll get two. More dynamic midfielder required too.
Lastly I'd love to see another striker come in and if any of the gossip is anywhere near believable I hope the Batshuayi one is legit. He'd be excellent as a loan and even better if we managed to buy him.
Can we get a player every two days between now and Thursday?
151 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:01:55
152 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:23:26
To me it is important to see the dead wood shipped out as quickly as possible. Williams & Mirallas are a start but there should be 5 or 6 more as well including loan deals.
Keeping fingers crossed!
153 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:24:13
I wouldnt be too sure about that if Kenwright is involved in any way.
154 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:31:48
I don't know what you were watching. In Martinez's final season we played some great attacking football. Had one of the best away records in the country until the last few games. Were scoring goals for fun. All of them came from open play. How we managed to do this while 'coming over the half way line less and less' is a complete mystery. Just makes the achievement all the more remarkable really.
We went into a game at home against West Brom knowing that a win would have put us 3 points behind 5th place United. This was the middle of February, yet some people want to have us believe that we were going to relegated under Martinez sooner or later.
That final season we were so close to actually being a great and successful side. All we needed was to replace some of the old timers and add a bit of depth to the squad. Cover for the by now usually injured McCarthy being particularly needed. But we never had the investment at that time to do so.
Two years later and we've wasted millions on second rate players, have a shocking side and play terrible football. Wonderful.
155 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:38:20
Sorry fella but we were crap in Martinezs final season. Boring, stale and dull
He managed to nullify the best to offensive fullbacks in Baines and Coleman (the opposition didnt have to do it .it was his horrible tactics)
He was a chancer that did great in Season 1 But was terrible thereafter
156 Posted 03/08/2018 at 11:40:35
157 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:11:06
158 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:27:09
Is there another CB of any note in the squad?
Mirallas moves to Number 8... What's the point in that? Unless...
159 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:32:09
As we stand now, we are on track for the 7th to 10th places again with this squad. We need to give Silva plenty of time to get a tune out of our lot, we're going through managers like there's no tomorrow. He doesn't look like he's someone that will be able to stand a lot of pressure to me.
160 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:39:34
Whatever else we need is highly likely at a reasonably advanced stage, even if it gets close to the deadline.
The new team seems to have a plan and I am the most relaxed I've ever been in a transfer window.
162 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:49:17
163 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:53:34
164 Posted 03/08/2018 at 12:56:10
We're not signing three more players. I think there's only going to be one more signing and hopefully a few more out the door.
We'll sign a CB. At that point we'll have Richarlson, Digne, and said CB. That will constitute a good window for me. Bringing in 6-7 new players is almost always a recipe for disaster as too much change simply creates chaos.
With these signings the question then is what are our goals for the season?
I'd say Europe (targeting 7th place, 6th would be a welcome miracle) and a better brand of football with more attacking intent.
Just one CB to go, and 2-3 outgoings and it'll be game on. M&M know what they are doing, and Rome wasn't built in a day.
165 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:01:33
166 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:03:19
Good luck to Williams – it's not his fault he isn't good enough for Everton FC. If I was at Swansea and the chance came along to step up a tier, I would do the same as Ashley did. Like I say, blame that prick Koeman for this pitifully mistake, not the player.
167 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:03:53
168 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:08:10
169 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:13:03
Even with 2 more quality signings we are going to be praying for youngsters to come good, old stagers to find their form, and virtually no injuries.
170 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:17:39
171 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:17:50
We are waiting because he is the No 1 player that Silva wants. He is reluctant to give up and go full on for an alternative. Brands must be getting some encouragement from the agent .
I am concerned we are playing a very dangerous game, similar to the Giroud situation. We will be left vulnerable in a crucial position.
Man Utd hold all the cards, while the try to get Maguire if they fail they will sign Mina on the last day. Poor old Everton will be left spitting feathers again.
The waiting game has gone on too long, Brands has told Mina's agent as much. The agent as told Barca to sort it out as a result.
I think we need to put the Mina issue to one side. Sign a top centre-back in the next few days. Lascelles? Or come up with a similar and even better option. We can't leave this position to chance or all the hard work will be undone.
If Mina is still available on the last day, take him on loan for a season.
172 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:18:10
I don't get that feeling at all. I hope you're correct.
Now the question is if that does indeed happen that we bring in a midfielder, will it be a player who will slot in straight away, or a younger prospect?
When I say one more signing, I mean one more of note, not including 20-year-old kids snatched up for £1 or 2 million.
I only see one more signing.
173 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:23:06
And anyway, one goal in the World Cup... how many have we seen play well then fail badly afterwards?
174 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:26:25
Main thing is that M & M have clearly identified the main areas and are busy addressing them.
However you can't force people to sign for you and I'd prefer we bide our time and buy players who will improve us rather than repeat the nonsense of Walsh & Co.
175 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:29:30
I agree. We can't let potential signings dick us around. The clock ticks, especially in this window.
Fuck off Mina and go sign a CB who isn't playing three to four teams against one another. And also, it's clear to me - we aren't the prize, we're the leverage in this relationship while he waits for Man Utd to make up their mind.
Cut the cord.
176 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:30:07
Perhaps you did not read my comments about Niasse, thank god he stayed and Koeman (to me along with Walsh the real villain) went. This underlines my point. Besides which, they are with us and they are Everton players so deserve respect.
1. Are you suggesting that Schneiderlin is currently a better player than Besic? How odd. Did you watch pre-season? If so, then you would have noticed that apart from one 45 minutes, Besic was our one of our best players and Darren Griffiths said as much. Schneiderlin has loads of ability but for an experienced player he seems to have lost his way completely, why do you think we fell apart (again) at Rennes when Gueye went off? Besic certainly a good squad player and never did anything much wrong. Works his socks off and would have had him last season instead of Morgan any time.
2. What is Schneiderlin's position then if not defensive midfield? Gueye, Besic, Banigime and McCarthy all play a basically similar role although they each bring a slightly different approach. Marco seems to want to give him time (but not Vlasic) but in pre-season Schneiderlin was useless.
We lack a strong midfield ball player to take the team forward and make defence-splitting passes as well as tackle. A fully fit Rooney might have done it but my favourite is Nzonzi or 2nd choice, Ndiaye.
Desperately need a central defender, Jagielka and Keane together a disaster waiting to happen.
A quick corollary, I don't rip players apart but criticise them when it's due, all our players no matter what is their current form have given something to the club in their time and I respect them for that (even Schneiderlin and Williams).
177 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:34:36
You say one more in and you would see it as a good window. Not for me, not if the midfield isn't markedly improved on what we put out last season.
I realise things may not happen but I'd be disappointed if Silva and Brands weren't aiming for about 5 new faces in total this summer.
178 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:43:46
I think without a CM it's a good window. We addressed the real concern areas and have improved. Plus we've trimmed the squad which desperately needed to be done.
With a CM coming in, and again I don't see it occurring (expectation), it would be a great, great window on par with Bobby Martinez's summer of McCarthy, Barry and Lukaku.
179 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:47:31
If we don't sign a CB I'll be flummoxed, disappointed, and bordering pissed!
180 Posted 03/08/2018 at 13:59:59
Richarlison and Digne could make some difference in their respective areas as long as they remain fit and consistent but I still have my doubts about the strength in midfield. They do have some youth to turn to if Silva can do some magic but most of the onus will I suppose rest on Gana, Sigurdsson, Davies or Schneiderlin for now.
Many others will be pushing for places but it depends on what strategy Silva opts for and so it may be a few games before anything looks remotely like a successful formation (or unsuccessful). That first game against Wolves will be so important.
181 Posted 03/08/2018 at 14:14:00
He is apparently lacking fitness for a full season hence spurs willing to part ways, but with no European football this should be less of an issue with us, plus we can rest him or sub at 70 mins for Davies or Williams.
Levy may well want top dollar, waiting for a call from China, which then changes the situation, but is worth a try if it means having a midfield of Dembele, Gueye and Sigurdsson. (Baningime, Dowell, Davies and Williams in reserve means a great combo of youth and experience.)
182 Posted 03/08/2018 at 14:32:04
We need 2 or 3 world class players to make us competitive with the usual top 6, we haven't signed them yet. As I said before, I'll be delighted if we sign them in the time left.
If we don't, it's more of the same in my opinion which does not make us a bad side, there are lots of clubs in the Premier League that would prefer to swop us places.
183 Posted 03/08/2018 at 14:32:58
Great hair, though.
184 Posted 03/08/2018 at 14:41:09
Apparently Mina's uncle/agent has accepted terms from Everton and it is just a waiting game to see how serious Man Utd are. I don't think they're serious at all. I think they're waiting on Alderweireld and are using Mina in an attempt to bring Levy's exorbitant valuation of Alderweireld down.
In turn we're looking at Rojo to force Barcelona to negotiate with us before it's too late. Game of poker with high stakes. I reckon he'll come to us or Lyon.
185 Posted 03/08/2018 at 14:47:15
Dembele is brilliant. The player Ive most wanted us to sign when were supposedly competing with Spurs for him. But hes 31 now and unlike Barry a strong part to his game is his pace and balance, the ability to go past people in the middle. Id still have him in a heartbeat but suspect the fee and wages would be prohibitive for a player with no re-sale value. What we should be doing is looking hard for the new Dembele. Denis Zakaria?
186 Posted 03/08/2018 at 15:14:39
187 Posted 03/08/2018 at 15:26:15
Spot on about Tom's hair. It's both luxuriant AND plentiful.
The lad's truly blessed.
188 Posted 03/08/2018 at 15:29:53
189 Posted 03/08/2018 at 16:06:19
190 Posted 03/08/2018 at 16:16:13
192 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:11:55
193 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:17:05
Dembele at his age will want to be playing, not benched, so it is a possibility that he will want away.
Dembele and Mina would certainly put some meat on the bones and turn us into a meaner unit. It would be interesting if we could get him on loan .
Drinkwater and Mooy need considering too . That combo would be a step up from what we have got in CM. They are both top midfielders who chip in with goals too.
194 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:24:22
195 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:26:50
It is interesting how Moyes and Roberto reappear in between the main topic of the thread. Maybe its something about
what we need in the space between the hope found in the insights of a coaching manual and the hopes and desires that our past managers carry for us.
196 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:33:34
197 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:35:14
198 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:40:00
199 Posted 03/08/2018 at 17:40:14
Nearly everything you mention happening in the final 10 games of Martinez's reign when it was obvious that he had lost the dressing room. Any manager would produce results on a par with those in the same circumstances.
Prior to that we had played attacking, entertaining football most weeks and certainly didn't score goals 'playing in our own half' as you constantly try to claim.
Even in the games where we only managed a goal we were often all over the opposition and managed to create and miss a hat full of chances.
You've clearly got a problem with Martinez. But then you thought Unsworth was doing a good job so maybe you've just got a problem? :)
202 Posted 03/08/2018 at 20:32:55
We've conceded 102 league goals in the last two seasons since Martinez left. The fact that players like Jagielka still get a game says more about our horrendous transfers since coming into money. Prior to that we didn't have the funds to replace anyone anyway. We have only had one other left back on the books in something like the last 13 years and that was Oviedo, who broke his leg and was sold to Sunderland. Leighton Baines still gets a game you say? How about that!
You neglect to mention Howard, Distin, Neville, etc.
In the first two thirds of the final season under Martinez we were involved in two 3-3 draws, a 4-3 loss, a 6-2 win, a 4-0 and 3-0 win and a 3-1 win. If this doesn't constitute being entertained then what does?
You can keep parroting the 'football in our own half' line. It isn't true. How did we manage to score 59 goals, all from open play, while never leaving our own half? :O
203 Posted 03/08/2018 at 20:38:28
204 Posted 03/08/2018 at 21:32:02
1. Worst Home record in Premier League era. Would have been the worst ever had all seasons had 2 points for a win.
2. 47 points (twice) lowest points total in Premier League era besides the nadir of 2003/4. Less than the 49 points achieved in the car crash that was last season.
3. Never practiced set pieces by the admission of Leon Osman - criminal considering how many goals scored and conceeded from set plays.
4. Shite football despite having Lukaku, Stones and Barkley (150m+ worth of talent)
5. Lost 4-0 to Liverpool twice; biggest defeats since 1982.
6. Can you name a form team he beat in the cup competitions? Nope me neither. We beat a Chelsea side in a post Mourinho slump (under caretaker Hiddink) and fell to City, United and Dynamo Kiev. Basically the moment we met a team in form, we lost.
7. Belgium? Deserves credit but he was a tad lucky. Courtois was unbelievable against Brazil - how many shots did they have? The woeful defending continued against France who should have won 4-0, and only the Japanese team can tell you how they threw away the 2-0 lead, where both sidea defended terribly. Belgium did twice beat an England side in form so some credit due there.
7. Marc Wilmots, a very average manager (sacked by Ivory Coast no less in 2017) achieved 2 successive quarter finals with a younger Belgian side. I think the quality of Belgium's squad had a big part to play in reaching the Semis.
8. He was not a particularly phenomenal manager. In fact his record with us was phenomenally average. I think he averaged 1.44 points per game over all. A record not too disimiliar to Koeman, Unsworth and Allardyce. Wasn't Moyes averaging above 1.5 points per game?
205 Posted 03/08/2018 at 21:41:13
Seriously, how anyone can claim that we were anything other than shite in his last two seasons with us is quite frankly ‘ phenomenal
206 Posted 03/08/2018 at 23:26:03
Amit, Whats that point about 47 points? Weve had far less than 47 many times in the premier League era, and usually with a highly negative goal difference. Dont understand if youre really trying to say its our worst or what.
This really is a pointless argument. Its old news. We move on. Raking over old wounds helps no one. Lets look forwards to the new season and hope for the best and that our dreams arent over by autumn.
207 Posted 03/08/2018 at 23:26:51
The defence was disastrous in his final year.
Koemans career ending decision was selling Lukaku and replacing him with nothing. Someone at EFC should have been sacked asap after that fiasco.
208 Posted 03/08/2018 at 23:30:23
Walker was the worst manager we've ever had.
209 Posted 03/08/2018 at 23:40:17
211 Posted 04/08/2018 at 05:13:49
For much of the session he had us within a few points of the top 6 playing attacking, albeit possession based, football. It was defensive naivety that was costing us doing any better.
Playing football in our own half? If only!!! I lost count of how many times we got undone because we only had one player anywhere near the halfway line. Teams only needed the ball a handful of times to hurt us such was our focus on attack.
Yes, the last three months was shit. And the obsession with possession combined with a lack of any kind of defensive focus was ridiculous. But some of the revisionism here is well off the mark.
212 Posted 04/08/2018 at 06:06:09
213 Posted 04/08/2018 at 12:21:59
Shame. I think back to players of genuine quality we've had at the club in the recent era and he's absolutely up there. Never even gave the impression of not being arsed - on the pitch at least. Just a mystery why he can't put it together consistently.
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