Usmanov would be 'happy to help' Moshiri at Everton

Tuesday, 14 August, 2018 277comments  |  Jump to last
Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov has indicated he would consider investing in Everton after he finally sold his stake in Arsenal.

The Uzebek-born tycoon spent years trying to gain influence at the Emirates but was unable to convince majority shareholder Stan Kroenke to agree to giving him a seat on the Gunners' board.

Usmanov eventually elected to sell his 30% holding in the North London club and is now free to invest some of his considerable wealth in another team.

Speculation has been rife that he would join his longtime business partner Farhad Moshiri at Goodison Park ever since the Iranian-born businessman sold his own stake in Arsenal to Usmanov in 2016 but there has also been talk that he might try his had in Italy's Serie A.

Today he told Bloomberg that he is keen to stay in football and didn't rule out getting involved at Everton in some capacity.

"When I bought the stake in Arsenal I believed that football brands would be able to generate profit,' he said. "This is happening now.

"Should there be a proposal or a possibility to invest in them with good potential returns, I would consider the deal.

"We are friends with Farhad Moshiri. If he needs the support, I am happy to help."  


Reader Comments (277)

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Graham Coldron
1 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:26:53
Merson won't like this...
Peter Laverty
2 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:28:26
USM Stadium?
Len Hawkins
3 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:30:24
Sod Merson, there are Evertonians who WILL like it; I think the earth just moved.
Mark Andersson
4 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:32:22
Something very suss about all this.
Graham Coldron
5 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:33:35
Well said, Lee; I, like every Evertonian, would welcome this with open arms. I just wanted to highlight how the various shitehawks in the media would react to something like this.
Philip Bunting
6 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:37:44
Don't see your angle Mark at all. Plenty in terms of returns considering the development potential along the docks. Even loaning the cash needed for the stadium rather than being dependant on the council money.

Anyway, the man's a billionaire, why not have a bit of fantasy football at his stage of life rather than sitting on it. Not much you can do with it when your gone...

James Byrne
7 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:41:51
This is great news. Who gives a toss where or how he got his fortune?

Let's hope this is true and this investment becomes reality.

Peter Gorman
8 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:42:22
Now you're gonna believe us!
Christy Ring
9 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:42:46
Hopefully he'll replace Kenwright. It would be a huge coup, and would make us one of the wealthiest clubs in the Premier League.
John Wells
10 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:43:51
We are going to be BIG again, boys and girls! I could not give a flying fuck where he got his money — just keep it coming!
Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:44:03
Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
James Marshall
12 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:48:02
Given that USM Finch Farm already exists and Usmanov & Moshiri being business partners, surely this has been a long-term plan all along.

We all know Usmanov was never going to get control at Arsenal, and the slow-filter of his money (which lets face it, is Moshiri's money) had already begun when Moshiri bought in and USM sponsored Finch Farm.

It seems to me that everything else said in the press has been smoke & mirrors all along. Usmanov & Moshiri together can surely/finally put us back on the map. It's already started with the type of players we're now attracting (recent signings), the new stadium finally looking as though it's going ahead, and now these comments from Usmanov.

Personally, and based on nothing other than the above, I would be surprised if it didn't happen.

Colin Metcalfe
13 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:51:44
Game changer if he is serious!
Kunal Desai
14 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:55:09
We are going to be the next biggest play toy... just maybe, just maybe this will take us back to the elite. Time will tell.
James Marshall
15 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:58:28
Just been having a conversation with a Gooner mate and he reckons the general consensus among Arsenal supporters is that Usmanov will buy in to Everton now, and have something to prove against Arsenal & Kroenke.

I have everything crossed.

Kristian Boyce
16 Posted 14/08/2018 at 14:58:29
Perhaps he can tell us where he sent the Arteta money.
Jamie Evans
17 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:04:26
Please.

Let this be true, dear Lord.

Please.

Ash Moore
18 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:06:23
Game changer if true but we also need to be honest, the club is a long long way behind the eight ball these days.

My question is why didn't he put his cash in earlier? As we've seen billionaires don't necessarily guarantee success these days.

Pete Edwards
19 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:06:45
This makes me wet!!
Steve Ferns
20 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:09:08
He did Ash, he sent Moshiri. Nothing he could do before selling up to Kroenke and that was never an easy or a quick task.
Brian Murphy
21 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:09:56
I wouldn't get my hopes up with these headlines. He clearly states

"When I bought the stake in Arsenal I believed that football brands would be able to generate profit," he said. "This is happening now."

Yes, this is happening now... but it's not happening at Everton, at least not any time soon. All he will be doing is ploughing money in short-term and that doesn't seem to be his modus operandi. As much as I hate to say it, our profile just isn't big enough if, as he says, he wants to make profits.

If he wants a plaything, however, well then, all donations are gratefully appreciated.

Roy Coleman
22 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:12:35
He's got a fat head — like Big Sam!
Nick Prendergast
23 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:13:30
It makes you wonder if this is this what convinced the likes of Bernard and Mina to sign for us...?
Derek Knox
25 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:15:57
I have never been a believer in buying success, but it seems that is the trend these days, it is pretty clear that even now we are way behind the Man City and Chelsea models.

So the old adage seems appropriate: "If you can't beat them, join them".

Mike Keating
26 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:16:47
Shouldn't be surprised to hear success starved Evertonians just down the road from the Etihad Stadium saying they don't care how Usmanov made his billions but here's a guy who definitely doesn't trust the fellah:

Alisher Usmanov, is a Vicious Thug, Criminal, Racketeer, Heroin Trafficker and Accused Rapist

James Marshall
27 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:17:11
Roy, be careful or you could end up купание с рыбами.
Geoff Lambert
28 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:17:15
If this happens I think I might actualy see my beloved blues win the league again. Or should I say "buy" it. If that's what you have to do now, what the hell — count me in.
James Marshall
29 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:21:18
Anyone who cares about ethics and being a club with morals or some other claptrap is welcome to it. Personally I'm sick to death of supporting plucky little Everton and welcome any investment.

We're already balls-deep in Russian money anyway.

Derek Knox
30 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:23:50
James @27,

Roy has already been invited for a game of 'Russian Roulette' but with only one chamber unloaded.😮

Steve Ferns
31 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:24:33
Moshiri bought Everton for £90m and invested a further £150m. He's not spent that much. Usmanov wouldn't spend much more getting the rest of Everton.

What's the ground going to cost? £500m or so? Arsenal is worth £1.2bn. Could Everton be worth £750m with a new ground and Champions League? Could it even be worth a billion pounds? Prices keep shooting up, due to money pouring into football. That revenue keeps coming in. Amazon are going to stream matches on PCs and mobile devices this season. That market has yet to be exploited so expect more money from that.

Usmanov and Moshiri can spend about £750m on Everton, including building the ground, and sell for a massive profit. It just needs sensible investment on and off the pitch.

Just don't expect £100m net spend every window.

Geoff Lambert
32 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:26:55
Steve (#31), I would hope he will be spending that on one player at a time.
Tony Abrahams
33 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:27:44
Brian@21, I've just read that he's made around £400 million off Arsenal, but this hasn't happened overnight.

Borrow £100 Million, build a stadium, get a good team, and either sell, or use his telecomunication business for what's just around the corner? Plus I'm sure he'll also be in bed with Peel.

Everton, or Moshiri, have been buying land around Bramley-Moore Dock, because it's what businessmen do, when they've got major plans. This will not only be great for Everton, but also the people of Liverpool, except of course those real genuine bitter bastards, who still go to our former home every couple of weeks.

Steve Ferns
34 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:30:21
Geoff, or we can accept we can't sign Hazard, and instead find a younger version. Hazard was at Lille for 5 years up to the age of 21. Many of the world's top players start out at clubs where we can pick them up from. Very few are at clubs like Barca (Messi) at a young age.

I'd like to see us spend on young talent, and then actually play them. Like what we have done with Richarlison. I am very confident that Brands and Silva can do this.

Geoff Lambert
35 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:36:27
Love the ethics of that, Steve, but name me one team that has bought youngsters with potential to be world class and actually won anything with them in the team?

All the top teams buy the top players and maybe a couple of youngsters who get to play for the first team.

Paul Kelly
36 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:38:11
Let’s face facts, Jags got the ball...... .only joking.

Come on board big boy.

Rudi Coote
37 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:39:20
You have to buy success... Everton did it I the 60s; nothing has changed.

If Everton have the chance with Usmanov, then so be it. Bring it on!

Brian Murphy
38 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:42:32
Tony, you're right, these guys are wise businessmen and you can be sure that Moshiri had and has a clear vision. Whether Usmanov is or was always part of it time will tell.

On the return Usmanov got from Arsenal, we cant provide him with that return again – certainly not in the short term – but over time he could make significant dosh.

On your final and most important point, who gives a fuck what the bitters think? It would be great, as you say, for the city and if they can't see that, well fuck them again.

Joe Clitherow
39 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:49:17
Steve

At the moment, if we found another Hazard (which is highly unlikely anyway, and he is only one player out of the 15-20 Hazard equivalents we would need to properly challenge, but I will go with this absurd hypothesis), he would be off after 5 minutes as soon as one of the giant clubs with money came knocking, for the same reasons Rooney did 14 years ago. We have come on loads in that time but this aspect hasn't changed much at all.

Wayne Rooney was the one-player-in-a-generation we turned up and a challenging club needs the one-player-in-a-generation of about 20 clubs.

Even the 16-year-olds are being snapped up now so we wouldn't hold on until 21 anyway. I admire the sentiment but keep chasing those unicorns.

Ethics or trophies? Hmmm... let me think...

Paul Kelly
40 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:57:18
Roy @ 22, that was totally uncalled for mate.

If you look again, Allardyce's head is much bigger.

Steve Ferns
41 Posted 14/08/2018 at 15:58:02
Joe we identified loads of these young players under Moyes. We just never had the money or the pull to get them in. We are in a different stratosphere now, so we can.

With better scouting, we can identify Lille's best player as a future star earlier. Why can't we get him in, just as Chelsea did at the time? And if he then leaves for Barcelona after a couple of years, so be it, we can pocket the money to go and sign another one.

And it's not chasing unicorns. It's just having a good scouting network. Brands found Lozano. Silva knew about Richarlison. Why can't either of them find us someone special for next summer?

Geoff Trenner
42 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:04:05
All you on here saying that you don't care how he made his money, what is your attitude to tax evaders in the UK?

Are you okay with me or anyone else not paying any tax on very significant earnings?

I'm not saying that Mr Usmanov has done anything illegal, I have no idea, just questioning your willingness to accept cash into the club irrespective of how clean it is.

Paul Birmingham
43 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:08:28
Early days, but it would if it happened to provide further experience and business knowledge, and hopefully a catalyst to become a serious consistent challenger in the Premier League. Notably, Arsenal have a consistent transfer approach and have never gone mega OTT, based on the nature of today's market.

Deffo an ally in building at Bramley-Moore Dock, if both situations materialise. See it now some new business building down the north docks called, Usmanov Heights! Wishful thinking but if genuine intentions then some to build on.

It takes time, and who cares what the rest say or think... Time will prove.

Jerome Shields
45 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:11:56
Everton is a well-established brand. It is unique with history and tradition. You are not going to get a brand like that anywhere else.

The fact that Everton have moved up a gear and according, to Paul The Esk in a recent article, that Everton Finances are being set up for a large capital introduction, I think that Usmanov is already in the game and could have been from the start.

What way his involvement materialises may not be apparent, but I think that Mr Bill's days are numbered and full control of the shares will be realised, before capital is introduced, which would increase the value of the shares.

I know you can't buy success, but those who take over clubs, with the finance in place, can bring about changes to the way they are run, bringing in a higher level of professionalism to financing and how the football end is managed and run. They may have the most expensive managers and players, but they provide the framework for them to flourish.

Since the Champions League and Premier League have been formed, only elite are at the top table. Occasinally some Clubs break the glass ceiling, but they don't stay there if the framework hasn't been set up the right way. They make fundamental mistakes and drop 2 gears as a result.

Man Utd are only now going to employ a Director of Football; Arsenal will struggle without Wenger, who couldn't quite make it; Leicester City are mid-table and have dropped two gears; and Spurs foolishly haven't brought in anyone.

Everton were in 1st and 2nd gear for 22 years. But things are about to change.

Stephen Williams
46 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:14:11
Brian Murphy@21

"When I bought the stake in Arsenal I believed that football brands would be able to generate profit," he said. "This is happening now."

Yes this is happening now but it's not happening at Everton, at least not any time soon. All he will be doing is ploughing money in short-term and that doesn't seem to be his modus operandi. As much as I hate to say it, our profile just isn't big enough if as he says he wants to make profits."

You're plain wrong. Have you seen today's article on the BBC site? In 2016-17, Everton made a profit of £16.6m BEFORE revenue from attendances (one of only 10 clubs to do so). We are generating cash. The more broadcasting revenues increase, the more cash generated again. Add to that consistent Champions League football and a larger stadium and we then hit the returns that Usmanov and Moshiri expect. The way to get there is to invest in the new ground and the playing squad.

This is a very realistic plan for someone with significant resources. Bring it on!

Steve Ferns
47 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:14:47
Geoff, we already crossed the Rubicon when Moshiri came in. Do we draw a line between the two of them? One is okay but the other is not?

For what it's worth, the Craig Murray allegations are deeply concerning. I'm glad it's not my decision to make.

Martin Berry
48 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:17:07
Can't say it comes as any surprise.

If he is interested in a football club in the Premier League that is on the up, his business associate is the major shareholder in this club, they are planning a new stadium, they need steel to construct it and so on, then Everton is that club, it's obvious he will come on board sooner or later.

He is a businessman, he says he loves being part of a football club but he is also a businessman, he wants a return, the Premier League is where the business is at, Regardless of other European clubs being mentioned, he would be a fool to go elsewhere and he knows that.

Imagine this: sooner or later (and if it hasn't secretly happened already), Mr Usmanov visits Mr Moshiri in Everton's new offices in the Liver Building, Farhad points down the seafront to the Bramley Moore Dock site where Everton will have their new stadium. Added to this, the whole redevelopment of the area is going to be amazing. Who in their right mind would not want to think, "I want to be a part of this"?

It is going to happen, its just a matter of time, I think these two gents have been discussing this for a long time behind the scenes and the faithful are just wising up. There is no club in the Premier League with a more potentially exciting future than Everton Football Club.

We are going to have the most iconic stadium in the country and the envy of many other clubs all around the world, it's coming, enjoy the ride.

Mark Taylor
49 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:24:31
He is not just 'happy to help' but needed to help if one is to believe the data in Paul the Esk's interesting article on our finances elsewhere on here.

On top of the funding needs he itemises for the very short term, we are very likely to need at least a further £150m to take us to 5 years hence. And that is without the new stadium costs.

Clearly you can make big money out of football. Usmanov just has, so have the Glazers and sundry others. But it seems you can't go about it half-baked, see the failures at Villa and Newcastle among others. You need to spend big a la Abramovich and the Al Nayhans.

The other thing you need is patience, especially if you also haven't got a ready-made stadium. It took Chelsea and man City a while to make it. The big breakthrough is Champions League, then all the top players are viable targets. Until then, they tend not to be.

I think I'm James Marshall's camp, that this was the plan all along, or at the minimum for Usmanov, a contingency plan. Given his attitude towards Kroenke, I imagine he would take great delight in bumping Arsenal out the top six. He's certainly got the firepower to do it, he's much richer than Kroenke and even Abramovich. And given how long he persevered at Arsenal, it seems he also has the patience.

James Marshall
50 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:27:59
Geoff@42

We're already run by the Russian rouble and have been since Moshiri took over.

John Sagar
51 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:28:48
Usmanov is a Finch Farm sponsor already with USM Holdings, a package worth £75M in January of last year. It's a no-brainer we are going to need big-money investors like Usmanov to bring home the new stadium investment at the Bramley-Moore Dock along with Moshiri money.

Oh yes, please – let this be true and paint the city Blue!!!

Rob B Williams
52 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:28:51
As I suggested yesterday on another thread, Usmanov to Everton.

It will be great for him to plonk some money into our kitty, but these men like Moshiri & Usmanov don't play for small stakes, they are in for the Biggest Pot they can get their hands on.

By dribbling a few quid into the new stadium it puts them in pole position for a far bigger prize – 'Liverpool'. By that, I don't mean the shite across the road... I mean the City of Liverpool which is crying out for investment.

This is not just about Bramley-Moore Dock – it is about the whole waterfront. There are billions to be made here and the big boys are just about to join the game. They also have a tame Mayor who is an Evertonian – what's his name again? If he manages to pull this off, he will be Mayor for Life!!

Just a thought.

Nicholas Ryan
53 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:28:56
As my late Mother used to say: 'if you're going to sup with the Devil, use a very long spoon'!!
Gerry Quinn
54 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:35:23
As reported by Forbes, in 2017, Alisher Usmanov has an estimated net worth of $15.1 billion. The December 2013 Bloomberg Billionaires Index reported an estimated net worth of $19.6 billion, making him the 37th richest person in the world.
Gerry Quinn
55 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:40:38
Moshiri's net worth was estimated at US$1.7 billion (2018 Forbes list) US$2.3 billion (2017 Forbes list)

I reckon between them we could afford millions of Hibbo's!

Pete Edwards
56 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:40:41
We'll probably get relegated and banned from any form of football for 10 years when they find out we tapped up Usmanov from another team! Can't let plucky little Everton get above their station and upset the Sky 4 or is it 6 I can't keep up!!

Seriously though, if this comes off...…..OH YES!!

Tony Everan
57 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:43:43
The Sky Six will be spitting feathers at this news.

It blows a cataclysmic hole in the status quo. It ushers in a new order. It allows us to compete on a level playing field with other clubs. In the Premier League, you have to run to stand still, but Usmanov takes us into a wormhole.

Above all, what matters most would come to pass, It would become a reality that we are perennial top four contenders.

I wouldn't be surprised if the powers that lay behind the Sky Six and their allies tried to put a spanner in the works to prevent this from happening.

Terry McLavey
58 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:45:32
Do you think if we get his money, the commentators will like us again? :)
Terry McLavey
59 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:46:21
Oh yes, and referees!
Geoff Lambert
60 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:51:58
James (#50), I thought it was the Rial!!!
Rob B Williams
61 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:52:55
If this materialises, we'll have Moureen applying for a job soon – he loves BIG spenders.
John Raftery
62 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:52:56
It will certainly be interesting to see how this story develops. Few in the media took much interest while Usmanov was buying into Arsenal. Given his links with Putin he may see it as prudent to take a low key approach in regard to investing in our club.

Buying naming rights for the stadium via his company is one obvious way of providing what we need while shielding his personal involvement from the media spotlight. If we chose to buy a share holding in the club he would doubtless keep that below 50% in order to avoid any possibility of the UK government applying the sanctions which have been used against some friends of Putin.

Geoff Lambert
63 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:54:34
Pete (#56), have you ever owned a green Lotus Europa?
Rob Halligan
64 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:56:02
John, 62, if it comes off we might get free coach travel to every away game!!
Hugh Jenkins
65 Posted 14/08/2018 at 16:57:32
I believe that his has been a plan ever since Moshri sold his Arsenal shares and joined us.

Obviously, Usmanov could not even hint at doing the same without significantly reducing the value of the shares he still held and those he acquired from Moshri.

Imagine the conversation - M- "I've had a guts full of Arsenal, we are getting nowhere - will you buy my shares and I'll go and invest in another club".
U - "OK".

I'm sure it didn't happen like that!

These are two pretty shrewd cookies and I think this plan has been hatched for quite a while.


Moshri sells his shares to Usmanov and then uses the money to invest in Everton.

Usmanov - who has been trying to get onto the board of Arsenal for quite a time, now bides his time and makes a very substantial offer to buy out Kronke.

Kronke then reacts by offering to buy out Usmanov.

Usmanov, unexpectedly accepts and Kronke now has to cough up for those shares at full market value.

Bill Kenwright is ready to release his remaining holding of shares in EFC along with the other remaining shareholders.

Along comes Mr U - buys those shares, joins his mate Mr. M on the Board at EFC and joins as Chairman thereby getting what he has always wanted, a controlling interest in a major Premier League club and, more importantly, influence at board level of said club.

Fasten your seatbelts folks and get ready for the ride.

BTW - I feel sorry for those amongst us who have moral scrupples over how Mr U acquired his wealth.

It reminds me of two sayings I have heard over the years.

The first relates to the question " What is the difference between Capitalism and Communism? The answer is, in the Capitalist system, man exploits his fellow man, in the Communist system, it is the other way around."

The second is a quote from Groucho Marx in one of his films where he says to a protagonist, "Those are my principles and, if you don't like them ---- I have others."

Rob B Williams
66 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:02:11
Not only are we building a club, we are also building a stadium and what do stadia need? they need STEEL, step forward the man of steel.

The waterfront development will need steel - anybody know where there is some steel to be had? US-MAN-OF Everton - give him a ring and order a few million tons of Russian Steel - The Red Shite will soon be PUTIN their place!

Christy Ring
67 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:03:00
Moshiri has bought into the Liver building, Usmanov has put £75m into Finch Farm, they have to be looking at the bigger picture. The new Stadium, the redevelopment of the waterfront, it will be worth a fortune.
Pete Edwards
68 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:03:08
Geoff (#63), no, never, why?
Paul Kelly
69 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:05:06
John. “Given his links with Putin he may see it as prudent to take a low key approach in regard to investing in our club”.

No, no, no, no, no. If it happens let’s rub their face in the proverbial pot of shit they’ll all be so desperate stir. I’d love it if it happened and shout it from the rooftops at every opportunity, I’d even show my arse in Woolies window!

David Metcalf
70 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:06:27
I agree with quite a few of the comments so far made in regard to the motives for this, provided it happens, obviously!! It's not just the Everton/football scenario, it's the entire waterfront and its potential development. As well as the stadium, there will be bars, restaurants, living accommodation and retail facilities. And don't forget either that the council are already committed to the "Ten Streets Project" in this area, which apparently is going to include a revolving theatre!!

I get the impression that there is a desire to create an Albert Dock/Kings Dock situation to the north of the city centre, and the possibilities this could create for both Everton and the city itself are enormous. And both Moshiri and hopefully Usmanov will be fully aware of this. I go past this area every day on the train on my way to work (Kirkdale to Moorfields), and every time I look towards the Mersey, I think how wonderful it would be if someone could just make the most of the potential.

And I'm also sure I remember reading about something similar happening in Australia some years ago Melbourne possibly??...anyway, large areas of unused, neglected dockland were transformed over a period of time, and are now one of the most popular areas in the city for eating, drinking, socialising etc.

I would love this to happen to our city, and Everton to be right at the heart of it!! Please let it happen before the grim reaper wants to see me!!

Rob B Williams
71 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:06:34
CR 67. Ha ha I said it first - so there @ 52 & 66. - just saying like. Still pleased that you see my point!
Geoff Lambert
72 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:07:58
We might all get a new mobile phone with our season tickets as well.

Hang on a minute – this is Everton, Get ready for the start of World War 3, or no more new stadiums to be built. The so-called big six to move off to a Europe based league... Banned from Europe if you have a Russian owner... etc.

If you know your history!!!! You will know what I mean.

Geoff Lambert
73 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:09:53
Pete, I thought you where someone I used to go to the match with in the 70s/80s, who I lost touch with.
Pete Edwards
74 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:10:09
Usmanov should get his mate Putin to ride to the centre circle on a horse at the new stadium in one hand waving a kopites are gobshites flag and Salah's arm in the other. Now that's how to open our state-of-the-art waterfront stadium!!
Pat Kelly
75 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:10:37
Moshiri the stalking horse. Let's face it, he knows nothing about football. The injection into Finch Farm and subsequent spending on players has likely been funded directly or indirectly by Usmanov.

They've had to play a canny game to keep the FA off their case. But privately the FA probably couldn't care less. The more money in the game the better for all who get a slice.

Bill Watson
76 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:16:25
Most of big business is corrupt and most of it avoids paying its rightful tax. Household names like Asda, Tesco, Amazon, Facebook, Virgin et al pay just a fraction of the tax they should. Of course, they aren't doing anything illegal as the system is set up to allow them to do what they do.

This affects all of us in the lack of funding for the NHS, failure to adequately invest in the country's transport and road infrastructure, cuts to national and local services, lack of adequate social housing etc etc. In short, it affects single every aspect of our daily lives.

Don't even start on the corrupt privatisations of rail, gas, electric, water, Royal Mail, building societies and the TSB bank... the list is endless.

The only difference with Usmanov is he 'acquired' his wealth in a country we've always been told is our enemy. Manchester City is owned by a country which is totally corrupt and has little concept of human rights.

It would be virtually impossible to find a 'clean' billionaire.

Rob B Williams
77 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:17:09
Pete (#74), did you say Salah or Saladin? Wooo, I'm really excited – must take it easy in case I have a stroke!
Pete Edwards
78 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:19:30
Haha, no, definitely Salah, Rob!
Derek Taylor
79 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:22:43
Bill set for another big pay-off, it seems. The 'out by August' rumour was launched on the whisper that Usmanov would soon sell his shares in Arsenal and Everton would become his next port of call.

Now It has become clear we are one of the Top Ten where attendances are merely icing on the cake and 'profits can be made', the final chapter can be writ.

God help Silva if he screws up like Koeman did!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

80 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:25:51
Joe @ 39.

Whilst your observation that any decent player 'would be off after 5 minutes as soon as one of the giant clubs with money came knocking' may be a harsh truth now, surely the ambition of the club is to become a 'giant club' again so the world's very best players both want to remain with us and join us?

That remains my ambitious hope of the new order, anyway.

Anthony Dove
81 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:30:48
He's just a big rich cuddly Russian bear, isn't he?
Mal van Schaick
82 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:33:50
I think that this has been a plan in the making for a long time. There was little panic over the loss of 2 managers and poor spending on the squad, knowing that money would not be a problem.

Looks like we could be buying our way into the top 4.

Lewis Barclay
83 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:37:27
The thing I worry about with this is some underlying messy behaviour that gets discovered the year before we have a team good enough to win the Champions League, only for us to go through some Rangers like “play your way through the divisions” drama that we'd likely never recover from.
Matthew Williams
84 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:38:22
This could be a major game changer if it happens. This man's wealth could turn our fortunes round and make us major players for many years to come.

Back where we belong Blues ?... without a doubt.

Paul Ellam
85 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:41:00
I have witnessed 30 years of near zero success while other clubs have been bought and run by the richest of the rich and cleaned up the silverware. If Usmanov does join us then we have a real chance of competing with the very best.

Just think about it, Man. City were doing nothing up to 2008 and now are considered one of the top 10 clubs in the world. That could be us!
Winning domestic trophies. Regularly playing Champions League football. Winning European trophies. Attracting all the very best players.

Just think about how good that would feel and see. It's possible and I for one, am in!

Kev Jones
86 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:42:42
Who gives a shit about Usmanov’s money? I cant wait till his $600,000,000 yacht slips into Bramley dock. Then I’d flush it like the big polished turd it is back down the Mersey.
Gavin Johnson
87 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:46:19
Pat #75

I thought it was Moshiri who inadvertently scouted Tosun when he saw him playing for Besiktas when he was watching his local team, Monaco. Don't know if he actually recommended him to Walsh but I read he was already familiar and very impressed with Tosun before we signed him.

As for Usmanov I'm over the moon. The sky's the limit for us and for him if he officially invests. We should break into the top 4 and he becomes a major player in the regeneration of Bramley-Moore and the surrounding area. He could make a lot of money and we might finally win that belated trophy.

Harry Hockley
88 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:46:27
What a time to be alive as an (reasonably young) Everton fan, so much positivity around our club right now it's hard not to feel happy and positive especially after the Wolves performance, everything seems to be going in the right direction, without getting too carried away of course! as no one knows what's round the corner as far as a stadium and Mr Usmanov goes.

Harry Hockley
89 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:49:06
Actually sod it, let's get carried away lol.
Barry McNally
90 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:51:12
Mbappé on loan with view to permanent move in January!
Kev Jones
92 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:54:40
Liverpool 4 is one of the most deprived areas in the country, thanks to the wonders of market economy. Usmanov, Abramovich, Putin are all successful examples of free marketers who cashed in state owned assets at huge profit to themselves as Gorbachov privatised the Soviet economy. Russia as the enemy? Usmanov and the other oligarchs are the allies of this country’s free marketeers whose current austerity policies have contributed so much to L4.

Perhaps the man of steal will slip EiC a few bob and then we can watch the snake swallow its tail.

Merle Urquart
93 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:55:30
Fuck me!
Michael Lynch
94 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:57:20
Yeah bring it on! Should at least get the stadium built a bit quicker if the big fella's involved.

As for breaking into the Top 4 - it will take more than just money, we need the best coaches, the best backroom staff, the best manager. Even then, there are no guarantees. I mean, the Shite have been wasting money for years and are only just getting it right under the Laughing Clown.

Having said all that, I'll take hope over relentless misery any day of the year. Put me down for a penthouse apartment at Bramley-Moore please.

Stephen McNally
95 Posted 14/08/2018 at 17:57:48
The majority of large businesses don't really buy into ethical policies but, merely pay lip service. How many global businesses pay into the system for the benefit of all? You've guessed correct, hardly any.

Is Usmanov whiter than white? Probably not but, he's definitely not alone. If Usmanov wants to support his friend Moshiri and Everton it would be very foolish to refuse. This would be a game-changer for Everton and the Premier League.

Jimmy Hogan
97 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:05:35
Mike Gaynes (#11). I am similarly sceptical.

There are many ways Usmanov's Company could "Support" Moshiri and Everton. Naming Rights for the Stadium would be the obvious one. The Bloomberg article also mentions potential investment in Bayern Munich, AC Milan and Roma. In the case of Roma, it would offer immediate Champions League football.

I should treat this as a "possibility" until further announcements are made and not get too carried away.

Brian Murphy
98 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:05:57
Stephen 46: I appreciate that but you are talking about figures from 2 years back. We will this year spend more than we take in and we are leveraged to the max with our credit facilities (unless we sell huge numbers of players over the next number of months). I'm not saying he can't make a return in any investment and we are attractive but it will take time for this to happen.

He could look at investment in a number of other clubs that don't need a new stadium if it's just a return he's looking for over the next couple of years. Long-term however, we are a cracking option. Let's hope that's what floats his boat — or, in this case, his £100 million yacht.

Jim Bailey
99 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:08:22
Just a thought. People, not necessarily on TW have queried as to why the likes of Mina, Bernard, Richarlison have signed for Everton. More so Mina given the supposed battle with Man Utd for his signature. Maybe the answer is in the title of this article.

We as fans know next to nothing. Maybe the contractual smallprint carried a "shut yer grid" clause as to what is happening at the club.

Hope so... bring it on.

Lee Whitehead
100 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:15:24
"Should there be a proposal or a possibility to invest in them with good potential returns, I would consider the deal. We are friends with Farhad Moshiri. If he needs the support, I am happy to help."

Just read and digest the above statement!!!!! This would change things forever!!!

OMG

Gavin Johnson
101 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:16:43
Jim (#99),

I hope so. We seem to have gone for a different type of player this window. Bernard especially was a coup. On Mina, I think it was the buyback clause that ultimately put United off. At the same time, I'm sure Everton were sold as a project and upwardly mobile club to the new signings.

Brent Stephens
102 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:18:28
Mark (#4): "Something very suss about all this."

Very persuasively argued.

Paul Kelly
103 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:18:55
Kev Jones, what’s your point?
Darren Murphy
104 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:19:20
Talk about sloooow, this was leaked earlier, great if true.
Darren Murphy
105 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:20:18
Money Jim, what else?
Ray Corner
106 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:23:30
We will need £100m net for players each year for the forseeable future to sustain a Champions League. Moshiri will need to share the load with his pal and business partner. The stadium needs long-term finance and should be a good investment for USM. Good news.
Merle Urquart
107 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:23:30
Jimmy 97

"The Bloomberg article also mentions potential investment in Bayern Munich, AC Milan and Roma. In the case of Roma it would offer immediate Champions League football."

FFS I was genuinely orgasmic there for a minute or two

Derek Turner
108 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:26:13
This guy is as dodgy as fuck... but, as others have said, which billionaire isn't? Let's hope he comes on board. If we are squeamish then maybe we should be up in arms over football in general.
David Midgley
109 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:26:36
Pete (#68).

If not, why not? Have you ever owned a Raleigh Roadster with a hub dynamo?

Steavey Buckley
110 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:27:53
Before Moshiri came along, Everton suffered from a lack of funding. Now they just have suffered from poor transfer decisions. But get the finances and transfers right, Everton could be going places.
Pat Kelly
111 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:28:20
Gavin #87, I think the jury is still out on Tosun.

Well and good if we get Usmanov as the new driving force behind Everton but I won't be counting any chickens for a while yet. I guess we'll know if he comes on board this year or not.

Paul Kelly
112 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:32:38
Kev Jones, L4 Anfield, is one of the most deprived areas due to Norwegian FC's buy out clauses and letting the area go to shit due to CPOs, the horrible twats.

Let the place go to shit to line their own pockets, no Russians involved there mate, just our own MPs and Government. If they cash in, so be it, I'll wash his yacht for free.

Dermot Byrne
113 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:34:24
Derek #108: good point. The PL game is a play thing of the rich and, as I have said before, fans just a soundtrack and source of a bit of income.

Man City have owners with dubious human rights record, to say the least; Man Utd owners supported the Trump campaign (so above board that one!) and we have others from that great den of open moral government, China.

If I had the moral spine, I would walk away from it all but I don't. Another 100 years in purgatory for me on top of the 1000 years already accrued!

Dave Abrahams
114 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:34:28
Lewis (83), I'm a worrier, but definitely nowhere in the same class as yourself, you must be nearly number one in that field, I bet you went grey when you where in the nursery.
Derek Knox
115 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:37:54
You have to admit it's better than Tesco!

"Every little helps"

Colin Glassar
116 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:43:31
I've been saying for over a year now that Usmanov is the power behind the throne and will show his hand sooner or later.

Now Misha, all I want for Christmas/New Year is a frontline of Messi, Neymar and M'bappe and I'll start to believe. Oh, and start delivering the bricks and steel to Bramley-Moore Dock and I will deffo believe.

Paul Tran
117 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:44:33
Of course, these new players were seduced by the project and the Portuguese-speaking manager. I'd wager that they were even more seduced by a nice pay packet, more potential game time and, in Mina's case, not playing for Mourinho.

Now it's up to us (and them!) to make EFC so compelling that they don't want to leave.

Tony Abrahams
118 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:45:00
Just read a story on the doomsday report, and I can’t believe that we have still got 22 years before the world ends? No way will Usmanov, come now.
Steve Ferns
119 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:47:24
So that’s 22 years to win 11 more league titles and overtake the RS or Man Utd. We better get a wriggle on. Once we overtake them bar stewards, you really know the world will end.
Derek Knox
120 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:52:28
Colin @116, how the other half live mate.

"Domestos is the power behind my throne." 🤩

Nick White
121 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:53:16
Yes yes yes! If it happens (and only when he is holding a blue and White scarf) but would be amazing for the club. Obviously we would still have to contend with Financial Fair Play but I am sure there are ways around that (eg, USM Finch Farm sponsorship deal). Please happen!
Andy Meighan
122 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:55:28
Haven't read most of the posts But personally I hope he made his billions illegally. Anything to wind them arrogant cunts up across the park... And the red-loving media. Oh and finally the most odious prick to ever grace the small screen, one Phil (Pinocchio) Thompson Come on board, Mr Usmanov, I for one will welcome you with open arms.
Paul Tran
123 Posted 14/08/2018 at 18:57:54
Come on, Tony, everyone knows the world ended when Clive Thomas disallowed that goal 41 years ago!
Colin Glassar
124 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:03:03
Rubbish, Paul. The world ended when Bally was sold to Arsenal.

Derek. I have no answer to that. 😳

Remember Merson on GSS when Moshiri bought into Everton when he said, “Oh no, that's not good”? He knew what was going to happen. So did I.

Paul Tran
125 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:05:22
Not true, Colin. It really ended that week when we lost on away goals to Panathinaikos on the Wednesday and them at OT on the Saturday after being one up.
Hugh Jenkins
127 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:09:54
I believe that the reference to the two Italian Clubs and Bayern are merely another smokescreen.

Alisher is a British citizen and has long said that his desire was to be a board member of Arsenal and to be part of the decision-making process at the club. He has now realised that that is a dream that he can never fulfil at Arsenal, so what is his next best option?

He probably wouldn't get that at Bayern because of their national rule on fan ownership. He almost certainly won't get that sort of clout in either of the Italian clubs and would probably face a stand off as with Kronke at Arsenal, if he tried it.

So, of all the options mentioned, which club meets his criteria (and which has his best friend and "scout / pathfinder" been at for the past two years)?

Antony Matthews
128 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:11:39
Usmanov is itching to invest and spend some of his money. Kroenke blocked him and wouldn't invest any of his own money. I hope he is welcomed with open arms and Blue Bill steps aside.
Harry Hockley
129 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:13:19
I will never forgive Pierluigi Collina for what he did in 2005, if that's not corruption, I don't know what is.
Colin Glassar
130 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:14:20
True Paul, forgot that. I was too young to go on me own and me dad wouldn’t take us as there were rumours the Greek fans were armed and dangerous (bottles of ouzo and sharpened pennies) so I had to listen to it on the radio. Still gutted that we got knocked out.
Kev Jones
131 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:21:25
Paul (#103) and Derek (#108),

While ToffeeWeb posters prostrated themselves before Usmanov, my point was to offer another view on the human cost of his wealth. I also wondered what others thought about his wealth and the wealth of the other oligarchs, all made by legalised theft, and its costs for L4 and working people in general.

Derek has posed another question — should football be up in arms about it? Yes, it should. The horrible truth is that at the moment we are not — but prioritising top 4 over L4 still needs to be challenged.

Soren Moyer
132 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:21:42
He is 12 times more billionaire than our Moshiri.
Derek Turner
133 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:23:07
Dermot, I am fairly sure that supporting Everton gives you remission on purgatory, what else could explain it all?
John Keating
134 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:29:21
For those having a bit of an "ethical" moment over any sort of large investment, legit or otherwise, from Moshiri, Usmanov or anyone else. I'd have a think about the Kenwright years from his mortgaging the house days through the Sir Philip Green "friend of Everton" times. Loans in the British Virgin Islands. True Blue supporters like Robert Earl, a regular at Goodison for years, et al, et al.
Dermot Byrne
135 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:33:26
Think I may be in credit then, Derek!
Dermot Byrne
136 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:41:40
I don't disagree with you, Kev (#131). How we react is an individual decision. But I do have a doubt a few thousand Evertonians will bring down a free market capitalist system. And in our modern global power structure world, I doubt the ballot box will either.

So, as I support McClaren in F1 and Everton in the Premier League, I will hold my hands up — they are rich winners in a pretty shite exploitative system.

I can live with that, just as I live with shopping at Walmart (Asda).

Steve Ferns
137 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:46:56
Excellent point, John. I think we crossed the Rubicon when Moshiri came in. We've accepted the dirty Russian money then. Why not go all in?
Raymond Fox
138 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:55:45
He's nailed on to invest in the club, I wish I could get a bet on it.

I said elsewhere the odds on us winning the Premier League, us finishing in top 6 or finishing in top 4 have all been reduced since Saturday.

Whether they were impressed with our play and the players still waiting in the wings who are set to be included in our team, I know not.
On the other hand, maybe they got wind of Usmanov's statement or they weren't impressed with Arsenal — take your pick!

Steve Hewitt
139 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:57:45
Steady on, folks — let's get excited when the headline says Usmanov is investing in Everton.

Until then, enjoy the more discreet revolution at the club.

Stephen Davies
140 Posted 14/08/2018 at 19:59:05
Hugh (#127),

I don't think he is a British Citizen. He has indefinite leave to stay but of course that can be revoked at anytime.

Paul Tran
141 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:01:10
But does he 'get us?' Does he 'know his history?'

If not, be off with you and your money, we have more important things than good players and trophies!

Don't worry, I think that's nonsense as well. I want owners, DOFs, coaches and players that I love so much that I get them, rather than the other way round.

We're the history & present, they're the present and future. Let's create some history rather than pander to the past.

John Raftery
142 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:03:31
Rob (64) Yes, but only for those of us who have suffered through the past few decades. That’s quite a few of us!
Si Pulford
143 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:05:56
Prioritise L4 over top 4? Why? I'm not from L4 and our club has no obligation to L4? You're shouting at the wrong pantomime villain.

L4 might be in need of investment but it's neither an Uzbeki or an Iranian businessman's concern. The Bramley-Moore Dock site is a shit hole at the moment but they're about to regenerate the entire area. An area potentially bigger than L4 once that regeneration is finished.

I can only assume you're from L4 as you seem to think L4 is ethically more important than that whole dockland stretch that's been ignored and left to ruin for 50 years.

Joe McMahon
144 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:09:52
Please - Please. Bring it - Bring it! The decades of suffering we have had. Man this could be the biggest of news.
Andy Crooks
145 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:16:34
Steve, @ 137, here's why:

I have enjoyed our transfer window and the players we have bought. I want us to destroy Liverpool, win the league and watch exciting football. My other team are Morecambe, for sentimental reasons.

We have, in the past, bought success and I loved it. Moshiri has been great for the club I love but... I am falling out of love and it us because I see us reaching a tipping point. When we become part of the product, what billionaires like to provide the background music, the atmosphere, the hate and the passion.

We are now an investment opportunity and I don't believe Moores ever saw us as that. Buying success without any examination of the morals who buy it for us is not for me.

That is only my opinion and yes, it is as poe-faced as fuck. But, you can't help the way you feel. By the way, I guess many Morecambe supporters would jump at Usmanov.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

146 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:17:57
Kev Jones, I fully comprehend the point you are trying to make. It is not an unreasonable one.

However, as much as we might wish to believe otherwise and as 'ethical' as we as individuals try to live, each one of us I believe 'feeds' the machine the wealthy oligarchs you reference make their billions from.

Unless you are a total recluse, living in some undiscovered backwater, or otherwise uninhabited island other than your good self, we daily feed the 'capitalist machine' you evidently despise.

Our homes are powered by energy companies, formerly protected nationalised industries, bought on the cheap from unscrupulous governments. Their power stations fired by the oil and gas exploited and exported from nations with poor records of 'democracy' and human rights. Our domestic water supply is dependent upon similar mega-companies.

The car we buy and maintain as our own selfish private means of transport; the food we buy and eat; the clothes we buy and wear; the material we use to construct our homes; the furniture and electronic gadgetry we fill those homes with; the medicines we rely on for our good health; the cosmetics we vainly apply; etc, etc, etc...

ALL, I am sad to admit, are part of a chain that not only exploits, pollutes and denudes the planet of its natural resources, but also, exploits men, women and children of all ages to ensure they never escape the poverty trap.

I wish it were otherwise, Kev. I wish I had the courage and conviction to withdraw from this seemingly morally bankrupt society and not contribute to it or maintain it anyway.

But I don't have the sufficient courage or conviction to withdraw.

Do you, Kev?

Andrew Haizelden
147 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:22:19
Mike at 22. A sad indictment of our times when this type of person is allowed into the UK never mind Everton.
John Keating
148 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:26:24
Well I'm from L3, regardless if it's L4, L3 or any other L
It's a pity our own City haven't looked after those areas.
Never mind now, go back to the 50's and 60's when rather than a well thought out regeneration plan we just knocked 90% of the inner City down and turfed everyone else out to Kirkby, Skem etc or moved them into the "Piggeries"
L4 isn't Everton's problem.
Anyone putting money into the City should be welcomed and any area improved by internal or external investment should be supported
Dermot Byrne
150 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:36:44
Andy #145: yep that is nature of the modern game. Have tried to say same before this latest potential investor and really looking at PL as a whole.

If you think this, it leaves you with a choice I guess. Either still maintain interest or drift away.

I doubt it will change though a new super league may leave a league here that is less glitzy but perhaps more like a league many of us remember.

Guess for many it is about the glitz and money after all getting into top 4 is the big aim, just below actually winning anything.

It is an entertainment business that some can make big money from and fans are very much just the soundtrack now.

The level we sing on that soundtrack is up to each of us I guess.


Raymond Fox
151 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:41:34
Amen Jay, and ditto to your second from last line.
Derek Taylor
152 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:43:32
Apparently, from a financial point of view, Everton don't need' it's people'anymore and it appears it is about to become an oligarch's plaything. But only if it can turn a profit !

Were that to happen, I will pull the blinds down on over 50 years of Everton support and spend what time is left to me at Marine. Having said that, it should be an exciting time for the younger supporters who will enjoy Everton really competing for
trophies. But it will not be THEIR Everton for whilst 'the Littlewoods' Years'were very much a 'company project', John Moores did it all for the people of Liverpool not his own pocket- book !

Enjoy !

Alastair Donaldson
153 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:43:42
My own very considered opinion.. "money talks, bullshit walks" Spinal Tap 1984.

Lawrence Green
154 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:43:55
Is there any such thing as clean money or strict adherence to ethics when it comes to any Billionaires from any part of the world? Isn't the capitalist system via the free market a system which inevitably has a few winners and a great many more losers ?

Many of the richest countries in the world were founded on wealth which was taken from less advanced nations, by soft power or indeed force when it was required.

Paul the 'Esk' thinks that it is highly unlikely that Usmanov will become a shareholder at Everton, which means we will have to hope that Moshiri can fund the project himself or via other means.

Therefore Everton's ethical virtue will be intact, unless of course those already at the club have used less than ethical methods to accumulate their wealth.

Nyet?

Geoff Lambert
155 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:44:27
Everton on twitter.
New appointment..

https://twitter.com/ALANMYERSMEDIA?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

156 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:45:13
Andrew @ 147.

"A sad indictment of our times when this type of person is allowed into the UK never mind Everton."

It was so much better wasn't it, when the UK 'allowed' its own robber barons to export its 'benevolence' to all four corners of the globe in the guise of the British Empire, planting the Union Jack and claiming governance over sovereign states, some of which had existed long before any of the home nations even came into existence, placed the local populace in bonded labour and exploited the host nation's resources to fill the coffers of London.

'If yer know yer 'istory', 'n all that...

Joe McMahon
157 Posted 14/08/2018 at 20:48:36
Alastair (153) "You should have seen what they wanted to use, it wasn't a glove believe me"
Mark Wynne
158 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:03:48
I would just love it if this came to fruition. Imagine all the salty tears from the RS fans on the phone-ins saying how it shouldn’t be allowed to happen etc etc.
Derek Taylor
159 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:07:06
PS. My own brother rings to remind me that the 'original' fortune of the Moores family was founded on the evils of gambling which many workers on Merseyside could ill afford in the 1920s.

Ok, ok, there are no untainted billionaires in sport and, perhaps, there never was !

Charles Brewer
160 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:10:52
OK, let's try a bit of speculation.

When the UK joined the EEC, it turned its back the traditional global and maritime economy enriched existed for about 400 years. London and the East coast became more and more dominant while the North and West became less important andprosperous.

If the UK ends its restrictive and exclusive ties with Europe, it is likely that those parts of the country which used to be important will recover significantly. In investment terms, this would be a good time to go long on Bristol,Cardiff, Liverpool, Manchester and G lasgow, and short on London.

We have seen Moshri investing in Liverpool city centre and proposing to build a world class stadium on the most impressive waterfront in Europe. It is also notable that the Chinese sent the Terracotta Army to Liverpool and nowhere else and that they are proposing enormous investment in Liverpool.

Usmanov has the opportunity to invest in the best location in Europe in a big way. For a few billion, he could get a major foothold in the most exciting economic region in the world. And having a new global football team(not a tired old red one) would do the reputation of his adopted city, and his and Moshri's investments a huge amount of good.

Dermot Byrne
161 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:11:07
Lol Alaister #153. Great great film.
Derek Taylor
162 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:18:52
I guess that given our beloved docks were spawned from the slave trade, we can hardly be judgemental of the methods by which these East European oligarchs accumulated their fortunes !

Live and let live, eh ?

Paul Kelly
163 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:29:12
Jags is innocent! Never would of been given over there!!!!!!!!!!
Jack Convery
164 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:32:39
Whoa ! Its not Xmas til 25th December is it ? The dj at Goodison must play BACK IN THE USSR on Saturday.

On another topic - If FS had remained as professional with England as he apparently did, when he knew Moshiri was going to sack him he would never have been at EFC in the first place - just saying like.

Jerome Shields
165 Posted 14/08/2018 at 21:37:56
Pete#56. I worry about that too.
Stephen Davies
166 Posted 14/08/2018 at 22:08:44
Lawrence 254.
Ive regularly tead the reports from 'the esk' and hes maintained his stance on Usmanov...that he wont become a shareholder.
However with the info from the Bloomberg article ( and if the esk hunch is correct) I suspect investment may well come from sponsoring the stadium or shirt deal ( their present deal is £200m for shirt alone)
Karen Mason
167 Posted 14/08/2018 at 23:07:54
I have to admit that I have been a 'let's not sell our soul to the devil' advocate, as I have watched clubs like City and Chelsea become a rich mans play thing and along the way have lost their identity. I never really wanted that for my beloved club. However . if a super- rich someone wants to invest in, or own our club, to enable my beloved club to compete on a level playing field, my only ethic is - :
It must not be someone who calls Football 'Soccer!!' :-)
As so many on here have already commented, ethics/morals etc are a rarity on any level. Even on the pitch - Players wear armbands with the word 'Respect' on it, then dive and roll around to get other players sent off. Football sadly has become the most corrupt of sports, so to compete on a level playing field, maybe we have to join them, as clearly, we haven't been able to beat them.
Tony Everan
168 Posted 14/08/2018 at 23:45:34

The main objective from any investment must be that the club grows organically too. That the club is well run and stable. Short term gains are attractive, like a thrilling one night stand . However investment also has to be for the long game and the long term stability and sustainability of the club. Gearing it to create a club which can compete and challenge for the top four and the league title year after year.

In short creating a club that can stand on its own and genuinely compete for all things.

Dan Davies
169 Posted 14/08/2018 at 23:56:18
Scenario #1

Everton acquire funding for the Stadium with financial help from an Usmanov business.

Farhad Moshiri acquires more shares from both Mr. Bill and Mr. Woods, giving him effective control of the club.

The stadium gets built in line with Everton becoming more competitive on the pitch.

Once the Stadium is built Mr. Usmanov strikes a deal with Mr. Moshiri and takes a controlling shareholding.

Scenario #2

Mr. Usmanov gets impatient and buys Mr. Kenwright and Mr. Woods out en bloc and takes power alongside Mr. Moshiri. Eventually taking control of the club.

Personally I would love to see Scenario #2!

Chris Mason
170 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:06:04
He bought low and sold high at Arsenal.

That would also be relatively true of Everton, given their recent league placings and club state.

If he bought in and invested in some marquee signings it would represent a solid, perhaps even good football investment. Don’t forget half the stadium cost is being funded in one of the most cost-effective ways possible. So he won’t need to invest £500 million there.

Once he got his initial enthusiasm out of the way, Moshiri now has the team, strategy and structure in place to reflect a very solid team spine and better processes off the pitch. Relatively objectively speaking - it looks like a moderate risk investment.

Time will tell whether the recent work will result in European football, but it does look like Everton are one of the better value investments in a premier league team.

I suspect this is very likely to happen in the next 12 months.

Dan Davies
171 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:23:34
Played correctly, both Moshiri and Usmanov could double their investments in EFC.

That however would be dependent on BMD.

If however both became financially involved in the wider 'Peel' project, well, there's a killing to be made if all goes to plan.

Bill Watson
172 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:32:25
Bill Watson
173 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:32:25
Dan #169

Moshiri's 49.9% gives him outright control now. He cannot be outvoted.

John Pickles
174 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:38:09
Ka-ching!
Dan Davies
175 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:43:50
I know Bill. We all know Moshiri is the boss man.

However there are still shareholders that need buying out.

Plus, 49.9 doesn't give him outright control. That's why it was structured 49.9 in the first place.

Yes I know there are shareholders who have passed away and therefore theoretically nobody can have full control but that's splitting hairs.

The devil is in the detail Bill. As they say.

Gavin Johnson
176 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:50:35
After the initial excitement. I'm lowering my expectations here. After reading a report on theesk.org which gives a thorough analysis of the interview Usmanov gave. Two things struck me. Apparently, Usmanov gave the same message to AC Milan, Roma and Bayern.

Also what occurred to me earlier in the day if Usmanov bought the remaining 50.1% of shares he would have the larger investment albeit 0.1%. Wouldn't Moshiri want to be seen as his own man?? The pair are good friends but would Moshiri necessarily want his friend involved? I would imagine both men have huge egos and If Usmanov came in he would automatically be seen as the senior partner because his wealth dwarves Moshiri's. How is Moshiri going to feel about that after being the main man for a couple of years?

Maybe a more realistic scenario could be that Moshiri buys more of Kenwright's shares and Usmanov invests vicariously through stadium naming rights, or a shirt sponsorship that Stephen Davies (#166) mentions.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade because I want Usmanov involved officially just because it gives us more kudos, and immediately elevates our profile. Whether he officially invests in us or buys another foreign club, I still think we won't hear the last of Usmanov's involvement with us. As Keith Harris responded, support can come in a number of ways. Maybe Usmanov will become the new friend of the club.

Jamie Crowley
177 Posted 15/08/2018 at 00:59:56
Karen @ 167 -

I don't take any offense at your comment, basically because I'm not a pussy. The world's full of easily offended people nowadays, and it's pretty puke-inducing.

But why in the hell do you care if an investor calls your "football" "soccer"?

Seriously, who cares as long as it's an investor with a reasonable attitude and an intelligent approach?

American, Russian, Uzbekistan, Mexico... if they are intelligent and have a sound plan, what in the world does it matter?

I hope the Soccer gods bring us an investor so we can play scintillating soccer in front of the world's best soccer fans.

Dan Davies
178 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:00:22
Gav, Moshiri started as Usmanov's accountant. They're business partners who became friends.

Ultimately, Moshiri works for Usmanov!

Gavin Johnson
179 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:14:37
True, Dan, I guess it's it comes down to whether you think Moshiri invested under his steam with his own cash, or whether Usmanov has been the man behind it all along. I don't think any of us can say for sure.

Check out the article on theesk,org. It was a more sobering read after my initial elation. He argues the point that Everton is definitely Moshiri's project and he has enough wealth to build the stadium and invest, but he could ask for Usmanov to help in an unofficial capacity if needed, which was what Keith Harris alluded to in his response that support can come in a number of ways and it was a private matter between Moshiri and Usmanov. The Esk goes into a lot more detail and can explain it a lot better than I can. It's a good read.

But I'm with you, Dan, in that I really hope Usmanov comes on board, and it's in clean sight buying the remaining shares rather than being a 'new friend' — which he probably already is.

Bill Watson
180 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:21:46
Dan.

Moshiri's 49.9% means he cannot be outvoted therefore he has outright control without having to acquire more shares. That's not theoretical or splitting hairs; it's a fact.

However, if he sees his investment as a medium- to long-term project to 'add value' to that investment and, subsequently, take a profit he will, undoubtedly, seek to increase his stake.

Laurie Hartley
181 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:25:56
If Usmanov finances the other £250M that Moshiri needs for the stadium that would do. The thought has crossed my mind whether Usmanov might want to supply all the finance (the greater the investment the greater the potential return). Usmanov might also be interested in the naming rights.

If we build the stadium and maintain our Premier League status Everton shares would, I should think, increase in value dramatically.

Therefore I think the most likely next move will be the acquisition of Kenwright and Woods shares by Moshiri. My guess is that then the stadium deal will be announced after that has happened.

Looking at the bigger picture, the dockland site represents a huge opportunity for people with money to make more. There is a reason why the major cities in the world were built in the geographical locations that they were. The Liverpool waterfront is prime global land.

On the ethical question – Jay # 156 and those who have concerns, I read a great book by Buckminster Fuller about this a couple of years ago. You might be interested in it:

Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth

My personal view? I read a great quote by the Chinese sage Lao Tsu many years ago that goes like this:

"If you want to change the world light a candle in your own corner."

The secret is to find a way of doing that. Our fellow blue George McKane has done that with The Yellow House. Everton have done it with EitC.

As individuals we can all find a way of lighting our own candle.

Up the Blues


Dan Davies
182 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:31:45
Bill, I would like to see that fact proven in a court of law if necessary. Considering paperwork signed by all parties before Mr Moshiri bought his shares.
Derek Thomas
183 Posted 15/08/2018 at 01:40:50
I can see debt, loans, upfront stadium costs and over-run contingencies, short-term money owed to banks etc being converted into shares.

With the 35,000 shares becoming 50,000 or 100,000. Moshiri's 49.9% will become 24.44% or 17.45%.

Usmanov or a holding company will have the lions share percentage. The rest will be minor token holdings, Director/staff sweeteners and all the other 'untraceable' single figure shares... as there are any number of people with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc shares in the back of sideboards.

These 'untraceable' shares will no doubt make themselves very traceable when the price goes up.

Or we may win two derbies in a season – pick your own fairytale.

Nicholas Ryan
184 Posted 15/08/2018 at 03:02:28
I just had the strangest dream; There was a large round-faced Russian guy, sitting behind a desk, with his feet up on it, smoking a huge cigar. He looked contemptuously, towards the young man on the far side of the desk, and said: "No, I'm sorry Mr Mbappe, you're just not expensive enough for us"!!
John Pierce
185 Posted 15/08/2018 at 03:16:15
JaC, might be worth looking at the etymology of the word 'soccer'. Couldn't be more British, the irony abounds.

Love a bit of association football, me. 😘

Simon Smith
186 Posted 15/08/2018 at 05:03:31
I can't be bothered to read all the comments as there's near on 200, but I know for a fact a lot say bring him and a lot say we don't want to sell out.

Here's my opinion: forget Tosun, Schneiderlin, Gana and even Silva or Kenwright, if we can buy some Premier League titles just like Man City or Chelsea, along with playing Champions League, then why not!?!?!?! Let's be honest, if we swapped all our nearly men for Grade A players in celebrated some leagues like the above-mentioned teams, then, let's be honest, we would all be buzzing!

I can almost see myself sitting in the park end watching some of Europe's finest players donning our royal blue jerseys with pride whilst winning our 10th League Championship.

Without Usmanov, we are destined for a life of mediocrity, and at best the odd FA Cup.

Jamie Crowley
187 Posted 15/08/2018 at 06:04:04
Sir John Pierce -

I'm well aware that "soccer" is entirely a British word. Which is another reason to rhetorically ask, "why in the world do we care if an owner calls the sport 'soccer'?"

Seriously?

I hope our football brings us 3 points this weekend. ;0)

In fact, and I say this entirely in jest, how about a Second Amendment dude from Georgia (or name any other southern state) who loves his guns and 'Merica to own the club? Soccer rocks, and so do firearms!

By the way Laurie @181 - nicely said. We should all light a candle or two.

Steven Jones
188 Posted 15/08/2018 at 06:31:54
Laurie 181 - Best post of the year - may be ever on here.

EitC is our candle and it gives us all a lift and a difference to The People's Club.

Being on the banks of the royal blue Mersey with an iconic waterfront and owning as our HQ the Liver Building and those blue birds is another.

The RS will twist their bile with selfish anger and self-combust if our friend Mr USM does throw his full weight behind Moshiri.

Victor Yu
189 Posted 15/08/2018 at 06:45:59
This would be amazing.

I still doubt it would happen though. He is a man who wants control. 'Helping' and 'partnering' aren't something that would interest him.

David Ellis
190 Posted 15/08/2018 at 07:04:37
Charles Brewer (#160),

"If the UK ends its restrictive and exclusive ties with Europe, it is likely that those parts of the country which used to be important will recover significantly. In investment terms, this would be a good time to go long on Bristol, Cardiff, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow, and short on London"

Sorry but the evidence is that the opposite will occur. We will all be poorer than we otherwise would be. London is a world city and a global centre of excellence in many fields. It will continue to thrive. The periphery will not make any gains relative to London and in absolute terms we'll all be poorer than if we'd stayed in Europe. The EEC did not cause the decline of the industrial North – this was just natural evolution of the industrial revolution as other countries were able to make stuff as well as we could so the Northern cities lost their competitive advantage and to some extent their raison d'être.

David Ellis
191 Posted 15/08/2018 at 07:13:58
Anyway, back to the topic. I can't see him investing in Bayern Munich - he won't get control. As for the Italian teams... I think Serie A is struggling and the Premier League is a much safer bet.

The Premier League is in a virtuous circle. As it gets relatively richer than the other leagues is pulls in the better players and managers – which increases its quality and popularity, which in turn drives revenue up relative to the others, which then allows them to pull in more superstars etc.

My real concern is that, once this process starts to threaten the very top clubs such as Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus and Barcelona (and they go the way of Ajax, Benfica and Celtic) they will have no option but to try and form a European Super League to stop them becoming an irrelevance.

Kev Jones
192 Posted 15/08/2018 at 08:11:59
If ‘Money talks, bullshit walks' then Usmanov would walk the walk and talk the talk. In London regeneration money rarely delivers to local communities but using bullshit legal policies, investors have succeeded in driving local people out of their homes. That's why I have solidarity for L4 and any other communities holding out hopes for regeneration.

As people have rightly pointed out, Usamov's is merely the latest representative of a system of exploitation stretching all the way back to Empire and Slavery. We should be critical of society that operates like this and call it out.

We are all caught living in the system because at the moment its the only show in town. Within the daily compromises which grind us down, we do whatever we can to point out the injustices in that system and, where we can, do what we can to make things better (great examples of EitC and Yellow House as posted by others).

However, I would like more hope than a candle in the wind. Success with the man of steal would be more complicated than the simple joy of lifting a trophy in a brand new stadium.

Hugh Jenkins
193 Posted 15/08/2018 at 08:22:04
Someone mentioned earlier that Moshri might resent Usmanov joining the Everton board as it would effectively "cramp his style", yet they were both shareholders at Arsenal. I still believe that they agreed, between them for Moshri to sell his shares in Arsenal and become the "stalking horse" at Everton.

These are highly professional businessmen, not "knee jerk" reactors. Whatever plans they have will have been discussed and mapped out previously with a defined timescale and contingencies in place for any changes fate might throw up.

People like Usmanov, do not generally back down from a fight, as he now appears to have done with Kroenke, unless they have some other plan in place that will deliver what they desire. What Usmanov has clearly said he desires is a seat on the board of a Premier League club with some significant influence on the day to day running of that club. That is what he wanted at Arsenal.

Now that he is selling his Arsenal shares, where else is he going to fulfil his ambition?

Don't forget, he will want to acquire any shares in EFC at the cheapest price possible, so he is not going to openly admit he is in the market as that will immediately drive up the price.

Bill Griffiths
194 Posted 15/08/2018 at 08:51:54
Many on here are reacting as if the money is in the bank already. These are just words at the moment; let's not get carried away yet.
James Marshall
195 Posted 15/08/2018 at 08:55:08
Remember a lot of what is said in private is nothing even close to the truth regarding what's said in public.

All the talk from the Usmanov camp a week or so ago was that he had zero interest in Everton. This week, he's friends with Moshiri and happy to help.Take these quotes with a pinch of salt and see what happens.

As someone said above, these people are experienced businessmen who aren't likely to start shouting from the rooftops their plans in public.

Personally I reckon it would make perfect sense for Usmanov to join Moshiri, a friend, ally and business partner at a club already well & truly controlled by Moshiri – the exact scenario Usmanov wanted at Arsenal. It all fits.

Thomas Lennon
197 Posted 15/08/2018 at 09:05:06
Hugh, what he says is unlikely to force up the price of shares at Everton as they are all privately owned rather than dealt in the public marketplace at a stock exchange. The price is fixed by the seller & buyer not the market. It is well recorded that there are already agreements in place for some of the larger holdings.

What it might well do though is force up the cost of buying in players so it is best to wait till transfer windows close or do it through a third party... like your business partner who is a UK citizen. or both.

It doesn't really matter to us as long as cash continues to flow at £150 million a year until we break into the Champions League.

£750 million to build a billion-pound business? Maybe £2 billion. Or they may choose to take money out in the form of share dividends at maybe 3-5% of share value? Or float the whole thing and get their money back while keeping control.

Pete Edwards
198 Posted 15/08/2018 at 09:28:50
Dave #109 "hanging my head in shame at never owning one".

I did have a Raleigh BMX with a dynamo light though.

Thomas Lennon
199 Posted 15/08/2018 at 09:29:15
While agreeing with the criticism of the ridiculous imbalances of wealth & power caused by capitalism I often wonder at what alternative you might be offering?

Collective power can work, and I speculate that one reason it doesn't work better is that we are all fundamentally and primarily motivated by individual security and longevity of our families. We like to be able to influence that ourselves. Some are risk takers, most are not.

When I hear calls for nationalisation of utilities, I remember the state they were in in the 70s – not unlike the state Everton were in 15 -20 years ago. Passive, underfunded, low morale, long-term decline, terrible productivity. Yet here we all are looking at a way back to the top because a few men can make a lot of money.

Morally imperfect perhaps but suggest to me how else it could be done?

Jim Potter
200 Posted 15/08/2018 at 09:49:02
It would be perfect timing if this reunion of billionaires was to happen soon.

I think it smacks of a joint plan they conceived a few years ago when it became apparent that they couldn't run Arsenal.

"You go and get Everton whilst I give it one more go here. If I don't win through I'll join you after selling the shares."

Hopefully that Panama Papers accusation of Usmanov being the puppeteer will prove unfounded, because if it is true, there's one hell of a fine and maybe a drop in leagues going to be occurring at a club near us very soon.

Usmanov may indeed invest in another European club, or leave football altogether, but it appears his interests lie in the Premier League of premier leagues.

It ain't over 'til the fat man sings. Let's hope he's allowed to get to the end of the song.

Brian Murray
201 Posted 15/08/2018 at 09:52:41
Keith Harris for some reason playing it all down. I hope in private we are a bit more forthcoming regarding more investment. Time to kick ass, blue boys, and take the Premier League by the scruff of the neck.
Tony Everan
202 Posted 15/08/2018 at 10:11:15
Sometimes in the world of profit and forensic accountancy, other romantic factors of Moshri and Usmanov joining forces are not even considered.

They may like each other, enjoy each other's company. They may like roast lamb and caper sauce and a glass of claret together every other week. Gossiping about other businessmen and dissing their acumen.

Profit will be prerequisite, but there are many investment alternatives. He will be wanting to invest in something that can stimulate him, a challenge. Something that can make the blood pump. He could buy some shares in a miner or mining land and mine some more bauxite or whatever. Or he could join forces with a friend and help create one of the world's iconic stadiums and possibly regenerate the whole waterfront in Liverpool.

Opportunities to invest in projects that are exciting as well as profitable are rare. I think the challenge and physical romance of it all will be the lure that Usmanov cannot resist.


James Flynn
203 Posted 15/08/2018 at 10:15:33
Moshiri is still on 49.9% of the shares? I thought he bought out Woods a few months ago.
Chris Clark
204 Posted 15/08/2018 at 10:49:55
Wealthy people like Usmanov do not increase their wealth by sharing. As much as I would like to see him invest heavily into Everton. I just can't see him doing it without calling all the shots. Moshiri is the same and I get the feeling he sees it as his project.

Usmanov's net worth is about £15 billion and Moshiri's is £2 billion. If you wanted to invest and you have more than 7 times the wealth, wouldn't you want full control? A friendship won't even come into it.

I do hope I am wrong – I'm just not getting carried away till something is made more concrete.

Stephen Davies
205 Posted 15/08/2018 at 10:53:46
Kev 192 & Tony 202.

Success, Money... this man has it all.. What else can such a man have/get that he hasn't got? Adoration? Respect (of both the masses and the so-called elite).

Ive been thinking along similar lines. I could be totally wrong of course... there's an opportunity here to have some influence over a major city area (something which is not easily achievable in London).

There's one of the largest (prime) real estate areas in Europe ripe for development with a football club ready to be placed right in it.
There's also the EitC aspect but on a far grander scale.

Steve Brown
206 Posted 15/08/2018 at 11:09:34
If Usmanov becomes a minority shareholder by purchasing the shares that Kenwright and Woods have kept to line their own pockets, if he buys a majority shareholding, if he funds the stadium construction, if he acquires naming rights for the new stadium, or a combination of these options then it transforms Everton into the pre-eminent club on Merseyside and will allow us to knock Liverpool right off their perch.

If Usmanov is the unacceptable face of capitalism, I would like to know who we regard as the acceptable face of capitalism that we would be happy to buy us?

Brian Williams
207 Posted 15/08/2018 at 11:59:05
If Usmanov becomes a minority shareholder by purchasing the shares that Kenwright and Woods have kept to line their own pockets,

Which they bought legitimately with their own money... instead of what? Giving them away? Selling them at a discount maybe?

James Marshall
208 Posted 15/08/2018 at 12:15:38
Whatever happens I'm enjoying the Arsenal fans on Twitter saying how afraid they are of us at the moment – lots of comments about us winning the league before they do, and how we'll be above them within 2 years.

We live in hope...

Jim Harrison
209 Posted 15/08/2018 at 12:29:48
This guy could buy out 50% of Everton, chuck a couple of hundred million at the team and still have money to spare from his Arsenal deal. He could profit from the stadium development, and from the immediate area. He could also think, fuck it, I am minted already, why get involved and give my self extra hassle?

I reckon he would only get involved if there was a bigger picture, not just the football. Chelsea are a good example of how throwing money at a club can go. When the cash flows, anything is possible, when it slows, it's up and down.

If investing in a club expecting returns purely from football, it's a bit dicey, but if there are other interests, such as the waterfront development and stadium, there are other potential gains.

Let's face it, Moshiri didn't look at Stoke or Burnley. Both good clubs, but neither has the development potential that Merseyside waterfront offers

Gary Russell
210 Posted 15/08/2018 at 12:38:26
I wonder if very rich Moshiri (& very, very rich guy?) was/were attracted only to Everton FC? Personally, I feel the stadium and the development prospects were also on his (their?) agenda(s). As always, time will tell.
Dale Rose
211 Posted 15/08/2018 at 12:44:19
There was a survey some years ago among athletes, to the effect that if you could take a performance-enhancing drug, that was undetectable, would you take it. 70% said they would and the other 30% lied.

My point is that the days of play fair in sport are long gone, money is the new God in the football world. It's either march or die. I hope we march all the way to a Champions League Final, ideally against Arsenal in Russia and blitz them.

Welcome Mr Usmanov.

Ray Roche
212 Posted 15/08/2018 at 12:56:05
Maybe we should wait until he has actually bought into Everton before people start getting ahead of themselves and “welcoming” Usmanov.
Stephen Bird
213 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:17:45
If Usmanov wants in officially, he will have to buy Kenwright's shares, massively increasing Old Bill's wealth overnight.

That means Kenwright, who took over the club as a relative pauper, has spent about 3 quid of his own money, pillaged the club financially for nigh on 20 years and can now slope away with multi-millions!!!

But that's okay, because, you see, "there is no bigger Evertonian than Bill!"

Geoff Lambert
214 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:21:47
Ray, my chips are now quite soggy and smell of urine.

Let us have a little hope, and dream of what could be.

Len Hawkins
215 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:30:12
Please don't just think sport is bent our whole lives are affected by corruption the greasing of palms all along the way.

The Utilities say Electricity for instance, Thatcher wrecked the British Coal Industry like she did steel. I was reading the other day that British Coal had perfected a way of producing Coal Fired Generated Electricity without the previously resulting emissions but Thatcher forced them to end the progress. She obviously had other Electricity Generators falling over themselves to donate to the Tories in return for getting their snout in the troughs. The Westminster Council homes scandal selling off the Councils property to rich property developers forcing out the Council Tenants so they could make a fortune all thanks to Thatcher et al.


So getting a few quid off a rich benefactor pales into insignificance as to the corruption in our seat of Government.

Ernie Baywood
216 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:38:53
Does that stand up to any scrutiny, Stephen?

Whether you like him or not, and whether you think he's done a good job or not, he's more than entitled to be paid for his shareholding which he's held for nearly 20 years.

Pat Waine
217 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:45:32
Koeman wrecked the club; with Usmanov money, we may be able to rebuild it.
Don Alexander
219 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:46:45
Mike Keating (#26) includes a clip that to me is disquieting. The author has a CV that might be considered reliable. He makes accusations of Usmanov having been criminal in a number of very serious ways, involving drugs, fraud and alleged rape.

The author us presumably open to legal redress if he's defamed Usmanov but as far as I can establish he hasn't taken any such action. Instead, he's taken action to try to close down the choice of any internet portal that did, and would, further publicise the allegations against him.

Hmmm.

Stephen Bird
220 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:49:16
Ernie (#216),

Pure speculation from me but it makes for a great narrative !!

Kenwright is a Marmite figure I guess, saved the club from Agent Johnson but stifled the club from making steps forward when other opportunities arose.

I'm a bigger Evertonian than him, because I've been spending my own money for the last 50 years without any possibility of recoupment.

Derek Taylor
221 Posted 15/08/2018 at 13:54:17
Ernie, whatever we may think about Bill, in contrast to so many of his counterparts at the likes of Aston Villa, Nottm Forest, Sunderland, Newcastle, Leeds et al, he has kept us in the top Division and delivered us safely into the arms of a benefactor. (I hope!)

I have to say that, in football matters, I have more faith in him than Moshiri!

Bill Watson
222 Posted 15/08/2018 at 14:08:00
Stephen (#213),

Buyers weren't exactly queuing up to buy the club off Johnson!
For all his faults, Kenwright kept the club afloat when it was badly holed and we should, at least, thank him for that.

Brian Williams
223 Posted 15/08/2018 at 14:25:38
Ernie (#216),
No, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all and is complete fabrication.
Dermot Byrne
224 Posted 15/08/2018 at 14:33:33
Stephen .and the wise one is?
John Pierce
225 Posted 15/08/2018 at 14:58:50
JaC, you know I was poking fun at Karen not you right?
Stephen Bird
226 Posted 15/08/2018 at 15:17:01
Dermot #224

The wise one is the one who resists the temptation to post on these threads - Ha Ha

Dermot Byrne
227 Posted 15/08/2018 at 15:26:35
Stephen we agree on that (meaning me too!). Lol.
Dave Abrahams
229 Posted 15/08/2018 at 15:40:07
Brian (223), there is considerable debate of how Kenwright bought or got hold of his shares when he took over Everton. I can't prove he didn't use his own money. Can you prove he did buy them with his own money?
Brian Williams
230 Posted 15/08/2018 at 15:55:32
Dave. I can't provide documentary evidence on here, no... but the whole "Kenwright has pillaged the club, held the club back, sold the club down the river for his own gain" etc etc is as tiresome as it is inaccurate.

I admit I find it irritating that some people with very little knowledge of it all castigate Kenwright at every opportunity and accuse him of never doing anything with regard to Everton that wasn't for his own gain. Some people seem to need someone to blame for us not having won anything for so long, not having a new ground etc etc.

Kenwright has made many mistakes but he's not guilty of the vast majority of the things he's accused of. It's not something I'm going to get drawn into a huge drawn-out argument over, life's too short, and I probably shouldn't have commented on the post that I did. Sometimes I get fed up of the same old stuff getting thrown around when most of the time it's far from truthful or accurate.

I replied to your post, mate, because you addressed me directly but that's me done on the subject. (Sorry if that seems like a cop-out, honestly.) I know what I know and I'm happy to say that it's a lot different from what a lot of mudslingers sling on here are saying.
NSNO.

Dave Abrahams
231 Posted 15/08/2018 at 16:08:38
Brian (230), fair enough, you'll get no long drawn arguments from me. I find they bore the life out of most ToffeeWebbers.

Sufficient to say I had a short debate with Billy Boy and found him to be an arrogant man who just wanted to browbeat me in the debate. I thought he was a bluff merchant, just walked away from him in the end but if you like him, good for you. One man's meat is another man's poison.

Stephen Bird
232 Posted 15/08/2018 at 16:19:30
Brian #230

I think I started the ball rolling with my initial critique that I later admitted was not based on any evidence I held, I was rolling out the populist narrative.
Your response has much merit.

I find him hard to like probably based on nothing more than his insistence that he is "one of us" when anecdotally my personal experience of him on just a couple of occasions found him to be rather the opposite.

Brian, again, enjoyed your response, don't tire of being well informed and eloquent

Brian Murray
233 Posted 15/08/2018 at 16:56:50
Derek Tayler post . You say you have more confidence in Bill than Moshiri in all football matters . Well from Moyes to Walter Smith onwards he clearly can't see one of life's winners or even challengers . Anyway hopefully this and him is all a thing of the past and a glorious future is within touching distance. COYB
Brent Stephens
234 Posted 15/08/2018 at 16:58:29
I'm conflicted about being involved in anything associated with dirty money and / or dirty practices. I just think that I can't get away from it. I can hardly get a cup of tea, or a jar of marmalade, or a tin of caviar or a Harris tweed suit (okay, I don't drink tea) without the producers being involved in some way with dirty money, dirty practices, corrupt governments (including those outside the UK) or exploitation of disadvantaged Indians and other "wretched of the earth".

The source of Moshiri's and Usmanov's money, and other alleged behaviour concerns me. But when Saturday comes, there'll be that rush of adrenalin as I walk up to Goodison Park, that spontaneous and ecstatic
roar as we score... and so on.

Maybe my way of reducing cognitive dissonance, but I just assume it's like this whatever I buy, so I just get on with it.

Gavin Johnson
235 Posted 15/08/2018 at 17:16:54
Peter Johnson gets a lot of stick but he did have a level of ambition. Had he been on board a couple of years earlier, the Park End would have been 2-tier for instance. The plans we already drawn up and the project was ready to go but I seem to remember him saying it would have been 2-tier if it had have been his decision.

He also invested in players out of his own pocket, unlike Bill Kenwright. I remember the excitement the summer we bought Dacourt, Materazzi, Collins and Unsworth. Yes, the wheels came off and players were sold on. But I remember someone asking him where the money was and he replied that it was on the pitch.

He invested and then couldn't afford to put anymore money into the club because his new oven chip venture made a huge loss. He had a lot more vision than Kenwright, but didn't have the money to do it. Kenwright hasn't put any money into the club.

Agent Johnson is no worse then Kenwright IMO, the fact that he sold Ferguson and once had a season ticket at the RS were the biggest bugbears with supporters but Boys Pen Bill was a proper blue so he got a free pass with a lot of supporters. Put it this way, only one of them left the club with any assets, and only one of them remortaged the club on future income to friends of the club.

Jamie Crowley
236 Posted 15/08/2018 at 17:55:01
Brent @ 234 -

Consider the World Cup. Nothing gets my juices flowing like the World Cup.

Financed through absolute moral corruption, slavery, greed, largesse, all of it.

The older I get I realize I'm simply in another world than the owners and financiers; another plane altogether.

It simply comes down to the fact I personally do not want a murdering, rapist, thieving, unethical twat to invest in my Club.

I am NOT saying Usmanov is ANY of those things. I've no fucking idea!

But to hope "good people" are the ones running the show surely isn't a bad desire? Has to be the preference, no?

Chris Corn
237 Posted 15/08/2018 at 17:56:55
Gavin, hmmmm... And what about his treatment of Howard Kendall? Promised the fans we would be pleasantly surprised by the world-class coach that was coming and then ended up going cap in hand to Kendall, who had just nearly taken Sheff Utd into the Premier League via the playoffs, then just treated him like a twunt when it went pear-shaped and blamed him for bringing the likes of Spencer and Tiler in when that was the hand he was dealt. He set a club legend up to fail and for me was a total shithouse.

John Collins is on record as saying he was told lies during the summer he was signed.

Cliff Finch sending Nigel Martyn to Leeds

Not to mention he wanted to take us out to Cronton. There was near murder when the Kirkby fiasco was on the table and rightly so.

Same with Paul Gregg, who many believe was the saviour of the Kings Dock. He was called out by Kenwright and asked to show his 'blue-blooded' investors only for Grantchester to flatly deny it at the first opportunity.

Let's not rewrite history to show Agent Johnson in a good light.

Jimmy Hogan
238 Posted 15/08/2018 at 17:58:48
A friend of mine had lunch with Peter Johnson some years back and asked him why he got out of Everton. He said he was having Sunday lunch with his family when a brick came through the window. Can you blame him?
Gavin Johnson
240 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:09:39
Chris

I'm not rewriting history mate. I just said Kenwright isn't any better than Johnson. Someone posted that Kenwright was our saviour from agent Johnson. Johnson was a numpty for employing the likes of Finch but was Finch much worse than the likes of Wyness and Elstone? They're all clowns IMO.

I think Johnson had more vision then Kenwright, but didn't have the finances to see it out. He lost a lot of money on some oven chip venture (can't remember what it was called now) but those were the days when clubs were often owned by local businessmen who'd come good, and if they failed, the club would take the brunt of it. He at least put money into the club out of his own pocket and didn't saddle us with the debts of 'good ol Bill' and we did win a trophy.

Karen Mason
241 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:12:23
Hi John @ 225,

I am aware of the derivation of the word 'soccer'; however, it is fair to say that it is mainly used by Americans and Aussies, is it not? Who let's face it, are hardly leaders in the world of Football. (Although, to be fair, the women's US team are no pushover and of course I except Tim Cahill and Tim Howard.)

Football as I know it, is called Football by all the Countries who are most influential and successful in the sport. So, if you are going to buy a Football club, based in the place Football was 'born', and it is called Football in that country, call it that.

Jamie at #117

I gather from the spelling in your post that you are from the good ol' US of A. I got this from your spelling of 'offence'. And by the way, glad you didn't take any. I never post to offend anyone.

Personal preference would be to have an owner who was born within a mile of Goodison, who supported EFC all his life, grew up to be a multi Billionaire and invested heavily in coaching local youngsters from the city to be great footballers and play for our club, so that every player knew exactly what it was to be a passionate and dedicated blue. But that they didn't have to leave our club to play elsewhere to further their career.

Yes, I know I'm deluded, and I need to grow up, but this would be my football heaven. And the owner, having been born and bred local to Goodison, would call football 'football', not 'soccer'. :-)

By the way, I was taking the mick out of LFC and Man Utd when I did my post, but both you Jamie, and John clearly missed that. Hope that explains my post.

On a serious note – Tony at #168. Love your post and agree totally.

Should Ambramovich get bored and pull his money from Chelsea, what would they be? 12 Managers in 13 years does not indicate a stable club with long-term vision. It seems a difficult task to find the 'right man' to own our club. Someone who would not leave our club worse off for their intervention, should they 'withdraw' their interest/investment in the club. I want our club to be better in the long term for any new investment, not just a 'one-night stand.'

COYB

Eric Paul
242 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:16:57
The club was in chaos under Johnson.

He sacked all admin staff and used the Red Shite's admin – or that's what I was told by a head steward when I went to complain about my season ticket not turning up a few days before the first game. It didn't come till the second game.

Chris Corn
243 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:22:08
Gavin, fair points made. 'DJ Spuddles' it was called. He clearly did saddle us with debts because he had to sell Ferguson from under Smith because we were in the shit. Albeit not at the levels it is today, there was still a lot of Sky money washing about in that era so he wasn't keeping the club afloat out of his own pocket.

Yes we did win a trophy but we've reached semis and finals under Kenwright which were winnable but for weak management and players that choked when well positioned. On that subject, I forgot to mention his handling of the Joe Royle resignation. Another joke.

Don't disagree about the various administrators you've mentioned.

Phil Bellis
244 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:28:01
Hiya Karen,

In Liverpool 8, it was footie or, more often, togger, as in "Comin' to Prinnie Park for a game of togger, la?”

Tom Bowers
245 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:35:41
Life is not perfect, certainly not us humans,that's for sure. Mistakes happen even with the best intentions.

What has happened at Everton over the years since the euphoric mid-eighties has been hard to swallow for the fans with a plethora of poor managers and a revolving door regarding many, many second-rate players.

Obviously poor senior management and also a lack of real funding has put them way behind in the Premier League pecking order.

However, it could well be that things are about to change for the better and without getting ahead of ourselves, the new regime (with or without the input of Usmanov) may just be the real deal.

They won't become World beaters overnight and it may even be a few more months before it happens but I for one am more optimistic than I have ever been.

Last Saturday I was stunned when Everton with 10 men actually scored the go-ahead goal which is a rarity and is indicative of a new attitude from all involved.. Previous Everton teams wouldn't have been at the races after what happened just on half-time.

Onwards and upwards boys!!!

Jimmy Hogan
246 Posted 15/08/2018 at 18:47:55
Karen, "Soccer" has gone out of fashion, but from 1965 to 1983 (I am almost 60 and lost interest in football for a few years while at University, so I stopped watching in 1977), anyone who grew up in the Midlands and was a football fan, will remember a Sunday afternoon highlights show, featuring extended highlights of a Midlands based teams called "Star Soccer".

I'm ashamed to admit I started watching live again in 1984. There was something about that team that looked like winners. I tried my hardest to get a ticket for the final at Wembley, but of course they were were like gold dust.

Brent Stephens
247 Posted 15/08/2018 at 19:28:32
Jamie #236 - absolutely. I "grin and bear it" though without the grin. Yes, what's gone on in World Cup matters is not good, to put it mildly. The many who've died building the stadia for the next World Cup in Qatar etc.
Brian Wilkinson
248 Posted 15/08/2018 at 19:57:55
For well over 20 years we have had the plucky tag, punching above our weight, every time we had a promising youngster, or a player who was resellable, went to the bigger lights.

Well I have had over 20 years of this shite and being a selling club, a easy target for football pundits and media, a club renowned as being a stepping stone for so many players.

Bring it on, who cares if we follow Citys lead and buy success, apart from Leicester City and Wigan Aths cup final win, those who have splashed millions are the ones whose trophy cabinet are getting stocked up.

We have been screaming out for investment, now we have a real chance of not only getting another guy on board with money to burn, who can carry out our new stadium,invest on building a team.

Believe me we have many false dawns, a laughing stock over Kirkby project, Kings dock.

Anyone who is worried about Usmanov coming on board, for the life of me, I do not know why, but if we get this guy in, then a sleeping giant will awake, I do not care how it comes, how much money we spend on players, what our new stadium may be called, all I want is to finally be inside the sweet shop, instead of nose pressed against the outside of the shop window.

As the saying goes, if you cannot beat them, join them

Gavin Johnson
249 Posted 15/08/2018 at 20:02:59
Slightly off subject but I was thinking of investing a couple of thousand in Brickvest who are offering people the chance to invest in the Liver Building.

On the one hand, it seems an exciting investment opportunity with what could be in the offing over the next few years. I should imagine the value of the building can only go up.

On the other hand, your money isn't protected and I'm a novice at buying shares. If anyone could offer advice I'd appreciate the input. It was recently reported in the Echo.
Bill Watson
250 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:01:54
Gavin; as a retired financial adviser you I'd say you should only consider it if you can afford to take a hit. It certainly sounds like a medium to long term investment so you'd need to be prepared to sit on it for some time and not panic if the value goes down.

Moshiri obviously considers it a good long term investment but he can afford to.

Although it's an iconic landmark it's over a century old and won't be as suited to modern requirements as more recent office buildings.

How much vacant floor space does it have? Moshiri was able to take over the entire 7th floor for Everton's admin functions. Was that because the building has lots of (unearning) empty space?

The building will always attract interest as a landmark but it also has to earn its keep. Liverpool has surplus office space!

Andy Crooks
251 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:04:26
Gavin, I like that idea too. Any advice from someone who knows?
Phil Bellis
252 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:13:16
Timely,

Tomorrow evening, Liver Birds lit up in Blue.

Reclaim The Bird! They can keep the cartoon version!

Phil Bellis
253 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:18:47
Student accommodation, Bill?
Buggar all but in Renshaw/Hardman St etc
Bill Watson
254 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:28:53
Phil.

Also, Islington, London Road, Lime Street, Crown Street, Tithebarn Street etc etc etc .

Lots of investment in student accommodation but very little in affordable social housing.

Lawrence Green
255 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:31:19
Bill #250
I was under the impression that Liverpool has inadequate office space to satsify the current demand.

Limited Office Space

Supply Dries Up

Gavin Johnson
256 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:32:31
Thanks for the feedback Bill :)

Andy, I've just been mulling the idea over and have just had a gander at their Brickvest's website after I read the article in the Echo. With the building being synonymous with Liverpool and the future investment of the Waterfront area it seems like it could be a good investment. It's the mystery of who's actually behind these enterprises that put's me off.

Stan Schofield
257 Posted 15/08/2018 at 21:47:27
Corruption, like cheating, is rife in football, as it is in many big business enterprises. No doubt the source of a lot of the money is dodgy. You could just say that because of all this, football isn't worth bothering about.

But when the match is on, and the adrenaline is flowing, surely all that moral stuff flies out of the window, at least for 90 or so minutes? And following Everton is not a choice, certainly for most of us. We might choose to stop going, or paying Sky subscriptions, or whatever, but we can't choose not to be interested.

It strikes me that we either accept mediocrity continuing at our club, or accept big money being pumped in. Regardless of the source of that big money.

Our brains might tell us that the money could be dirty, but our emotions about Everton won't allow us to stop being supporters. In this respect, any discussion about how respectable the source of the money is seems a waste of time. And probably forgotten once the trophy cabinet starts filling.

Brian Wilkinson
258 Posted 15/08/2018 at 22:10:44
I hear you Brother Stan, no need to convert me, I’m sick of being the punching above our weight and plucky Everton.

Give us the money and let’s spend spend spend and once again reclaim our Mersey millionaires

John Moores will rest easy, after Junior John moved to the dark side.

Now it is our time to make a deal with the devil and bring that money in.

Jamie Crowley
259 Posted 15/08/2018 at 22:12:00
Karen @ 241 -

That's one of the best responses to an objection or contrarian point of view I've read on TW. So cheers for that.

I'm definitely 100% American - your guess due to the spelling is spot on. I'll try not to be the "ugly" American. ;0)

Explaining yourself and stressing your desire for a local presence that continues the "love" of the Club and developing local youth is a desire I think all Evertonians should have, even us red-headed adopted ones. I've never been to Liverpool, but it's so glaringly obvious Everton is the city's team in my opinion. It reflects the city, the values, the culture, all of it. So with that take on your comments, they make perfect sense.

I'd still argue there's that Bostonian Italian-American fella who owns Roma, and I hate to say it John Henry & Co. across the park, who are excellent examples of American owners doing one hell of a job - and consequently use the word "soccer" a hell of a lot.

Go solve a math(s) problem. Colo(u)r a book. Put your armo(u)r on when posting on TW.

Enjoy your soccer. ;0) The Club's on the up, I think we're about to enjoy the ride. Hopefully, as you say, with a strong local image and presence; representing what seems to be one hell of a city in Liverpool to this outsider at least.

Bill Watson
260 Posted 15/08/2018 at 22:20:56
Lawrence # 255

Interesting article and it does suggest the surplus is falling although it's still substantial and the Pall Mall development will add to that.

If I was looking to invest in the Liver Building I'd want to know how much it will/would cost to bring it up to Grade A (assuming it's not already Grade A), what the % occupancy rates are and the projected future take up rate.

Also the past, current and projected losses/gains on this building.

Phil Bellis
261 Posted 15/08/2018 at 22:33:11
Jamie,

The powers that be at EFC miss such a lot. I want a BIG (metric or imperial, no matter) banner at John Lennon Airport and Lime Street Station:

"Welcome to Liverpool, Home of Everton FC and The Beatles... Football club and city of Firsts."

So easy

Alastair Donaldson
263 Posted 15/08/2018 at 23:18:49
Really enjoyed reading this thread, some great points made and humour to boot.. I tried to summarise my opinions last night but felt conflicted like quite a few others. Brent summed it up as well as anyone I thought...

My other sport is cycling... oh dear, I think I need to look elsewhere for a level playing field, ethics and a true sense of sportsmanship!! Darts anyone??

At the end of the day, football at his level is big business foremost and that renders any chance of competing for anything on a sustainable basis impossible unless you play the same way...you have the same size wallet.

That all said, whenever the boys are in action, I still forget all the above and it feels exactly as powerful, raw and important as it did when I was watching as a young teen. I don't think that will change no matter what happens off the field.

COYB.

Kev Jones
264 Posted 16/08/2018 at 06:26:02
I’d still like to flush Usmanov’s pirate yacht down the Mersey : trouble is he would just buy another one.

If he does not buy into Everton he’ll just buy into another club.

Like most fans I want the joy of a royal blue shirt against bright green grass lifting a flash of silver.

We live in a broken society in which pirate silver holds the simplicity of that joy to ransom.

I don’t have a solution to the dilemma’s the thread has brilliantly identified. Just because something is inevitable does not mean that its right. All the more reason to shine a light on what is plain and simple wrong.

Hugh Jenkins
265 Posted 16/08/2018 at 10:56:07
Kev (264). It is wrong - in your opinion. Other peoples opinions may differ with yours.

Winston Churchill once famously said " Democracy is the worst possible form of government - except for every other form that has ever been tried".

The same, is true of capitalism.

Lenin, Stalin and their successors tried for decades to prove this idea wrong until Gorbachev realised that the USSR was getting left further and further behind the western world and would continue to do so, unless someone grasped the nettle and changed the way the Soviet economy was run.

Usmanov and others became the direct beneficiaries of that change and now EFC may also benefit too.

Is that such a bad thing?

Another question arising from your concerns is not so easily answered, i.e. would L4 have fared better under a labour government or a communist government in the UK?

None of us can know for sure, but I do feel confident enough to say that, based on past history, the answer to that would be no!

Bill Watson
266 Posted 16/08/2018 at 11:51:11
Hugh # 265

Of course, it could also be argued that Stalin's accession to power was, in effect, a coup and the end of socialism in the SU.

Nearer to home capitalism died in 2008 and we now have a form of state supported, free market, free for all in which the gains made by ordinary people in the '60s and '70s are being clawed back.

Yes, Usmanov has form but so do most home grown millionaires. Is there a scale of acceptability?

Dave Abrahams
267 Posted 16/08/2018 at 12:44:26
Alastair (263), "Darts anyone?" you ask, well the new Everton manager might just be the man to ask, reading the other day, he is a keen and apparently very good darts player: hope he hits the bulls eye with The Blues.
Lawrence Green
268 Posted 16/08/2018 at 14:42:00
Careful what you wish for Newcastle and Everton fans – more competition could stave off a European Super League, but forward-thinking billionaires may find other corners to cut

Is this another attempt to point the finger of blame at Everton FC by Paul Doyle? Or does he believe that Billionaires with their investments are ruining the beautiful game? - Strange that I didnt hear the same outcry when other top English clubs were linked with massive investment. Of course Usmanov may not invest a penny piece in Everton FC but that won't stop the 'closed shop' brigade from pouring cold water on hope, wherever and whenever they can .

Glasgow United

Martin Greggor
269 Posted 16/08/2018 at 15:30:59
Personally I would be concerned about where the money is coming from. I can't believe some contributors want to bury their heads in the sand when it comes to what practices the club would be associated with. Slave labour, massive corruption and organised crime are not unknown in the former Soviet Union !
John G Davies
270 Posted 16/08/2018 at 15:43:36
Martin,

Zero hour contracts on minimum wage is the British equivalent to slave labour.

Massive corruption and organised crime are aplenty in the UK and in all Western (civilised :-) countries.

Karen Mason
271 Posted 16/08/2018 at 16:03:56
Hi, Jamie at #259.

thanks for your response too. I love the fact that people who live in far-flung places have an affinity and love our club. I welcome everyone from everywhere who were born Blue or are happy to be 'adopted Scousers' and support our team. Yes, even you there from across the big pond. :-)

As you rightly say, John Henry & Co are doing an excellent job across the Park, though it grieves me to say it! I would much prefer that the Gillette boys were still there making a mess of it all. :-) Though at Man Utd, the Glazers never do seem to have grasped the passion of the fans and what the club is about, neither does Abramovich. So with all that in mind, any new owner can call Football, Soccer whatever you like, as long as you get what us Evertonians are all about and what we value about our club and roots.

Nice to have a little exchange with you Jamie. :-) I hope you get to visit Goodison one day, before the new ground is built and experience the hairs on the back of your neck standing up as the Players run out on the pitch to the sound of Z-Cars and the Goodison roar. I watched my first Everton game at the age of 5. I'm a few months away from 60 now and still get shivers when the boys run out onto the turf. I really hope you get to experience it.

Joe O'Brien
272 Posted 16/08/2018 at 16:34:19
Martin.. so you also don't want Moshiri's investment? I think that horse has already bolted.. no billionaire investor is squeaky clean.
Bill Watson
273 Posted 16/08/2018 at 16:43:06
Martin (#265).

Slave labour is alive and well in the UK. We call it Workfare where unpaid slaves work up to 40 hours a week, mostly in retail.

Tesco and Asda have about 3000 each and, to boot, pay little or no UK Corporation Tax. Welcome to the UK

John G Davies
274 Posted 16/08/2018 at 18:16:42
Slave labour aside.
Russian corruption?
Imagine if we had a government that privatised the electric, gas, mail, etc
and sold them on the cheap to thier cronies.
Thank goodness that would never happen in this country.
Peter Mills
275 Posted 16/08/2018 at 20:53:14
Gavin (#249). My advice would be to bear in mind that it would not be an “investment”, more of a “gamble”.

There's nothing wrong with that, it can be fun, and if it is also of interest due to it being local, the Everton connection, an iconic property etc, then go ahead. But always remember:

Only ever use your own money (ie, don't borrow to invest). Only ever invest what you can afford to lose. Set your limits. Make a decision about what you want out of it. “Whenever this has made a (let's say) 10% loss/gain, then I'm getting out”. Or “I'm going to keep these shares for 2 years”. And stick to it.

I'm no expert, I'm speaking purely from my own limited experience.

Good luck.

Hugh Jenkins
276 Posted 16/08/2018 at 22:22:48
Bill (266). I agree that Stalin's accession to power was a coup, but one way or another the Russian people and satellite countries had / have been living in a police state of one form or another for the past 400 -500 years.

As to the question if there are any levels of acceptability, as my opening remark to Kev said – some will find it agreeable and some won't.

It is the old adage of "you pays your money etc."

From my perspective, at the age of 68 I think I have seen it all before and to use another hackneyed phrase – "the more things change, the more they seem the same".

I am in danger of become a serial cliche expounder so I will leave you with one final one that I heard many years ago.

"The world is full of nice people milling about at the bottom of the pool – only cream and bastards rise to the top".

Colin Glassar
277 Posted 16/08/2018 at 22:32:04
A coup surely means a quick, violent overthrow of the previous regime, Hugh. This wasn’t the case for Stalin. He gradually took over the state apparatus between 1924-29. His was more of a slow burner.
Brian Wilkinson
278 Posted 16/08/2018 at 23:38:48
The past two decades have seen sustained success, with the club winning 23 trophies since 1997. In total, the club has won 28 major trophies; six titles, eight FA Cups, five League Cups and four FA Community Shields, one UEFA Champions League, two UEFA Cup Winners' Cups, one UEFA Europa League and one UEFA Super Cup.

Not a bad return for a Russian owner in the Premier League, yet some are still questioning whether it is right for Usmanov is right for Everton.

I would gladly take even half of the above success.

Bill Watson
279 Posted 16/08/2018 at 23:42:13
Colin (#277),

I would say a Coup is usually a fairly bloodless siezure of power as in the Bolshevik coup and ousting of the Liberal Kerensky in 1917. The actual revolution was achieved, earlier, by the Liberals.

Stalin's emergence was, in essence, a coup as he opposed Lenin's policies but suppressed evidence of that. I agree that he spent the next few years consolidating his position by eliminating rivals.

I love the way these threads take on a life of their own, lol!

Bill Watson
280 Posted 16/08/2018 at 23:55:06
NB. Kerensky escaped the country in drag!! and Mrs Kerensky spent her latter years in the revolutionary hotbed of ..... Southport, where she found time to give a fascinating interview to Radio Merseyside's Bob Azurdia.

It's a funny old world!

Gavin Johnson
281 Posted 17/08/2018 at 00:18:37
Thanks for the advice, Peter. :)
Laurie Hartley
282 Posted 17/08/2018 at 01:03:46
Bill # 279 - "fairly bloodless"?

Execution of Romanov Family by Bolsheviks

Jamie Crowley
283 Posted 17/08/2018 at 04:34:32
Karen @ 271 -

You’re a gem. All my best.

Steve Brown
284 Posted 17/08/2018 at 05:14:11
I love the fact that a thread about the ownership of the club can develop into a debate on the overthrow of the Romanovs! Only on TW.
Bill Watson
285 Posted 17/08/2018 at 09:24:06
Laurie; # 282

Yes, by all accounts the coup, itself, was bloodless. The Romanovs were killed much later.

Steve Ferns
286 Posted 17/08/2018 at 09:48:12
Bill #279, a coup is quick and violent. Which is why the lack of violence can be called a "bloodless coup". An actual coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government". Source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Brian Wilkinson
287 Posted 17/08/2018 at 12:35:47
Steve@284, was thinking the same myself, glad it’s not just me, after 27 trophies, I doubt Chelsea fans are not to worried about their owner.

With Everton it’s the same old let’s look at a negative, ooh Russian Links, any player linked, nah too old, too small, overpriced, nah not good enough for the Championship then not good enough for Everton, new stadium will not happen, heard it all Steve from some on here.

Richarlson got slated before he even pulled the shirt on.

Bill Watson
288 Posted 17/08/2018 at 12:41:36
Steve (#286);

Okay, lol. The Bolsheviks seized power in a "bloodless coup". In reality they stepped into a power vacuum when the Liberal government had ceased to effectively function.

An unexpected consequence was that 99 years later Everton would be acquired by an associate of someone who became very wealthy from the privatisation of former Soviet state enterprises!!

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