Keane out for a month with hairline skull fracture

Sunday, 25 August, 2018 78comments  |  Jump to last
Mike Hewitt/Getty Images
Michael Keane sustained a small fracture to his skull when he collided with team-mate Idrissa Gueye in yesterday's draw with Bournemouth.

The players suffered a heavy clash of heads defending a cross late in the game, leaving the former Burnley defender flat out on the turf as medical personnel were rushed onto the pitch to treat him.

Keane was stretchered off after lengthy treatment before being taken away from the Vitality Stadium by ambulance.

No information on his condition was forthcoming last night but the club and player have both provided updates today confirming that he has a hairline skull fracture that will take around three to four weeks to heal.

During that time, Keane is to avoid any head contact with the ball.

 

Reader Comments (78)

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Martin Nicholls
1 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:04:57
Very bad news for Michael Keane and Everton – good job the Zouma deal was deemed to have beaten the deadline as otherwise, we would be very thin on the ground for centre-backs for the next two games at least.
Robert Leigh
2 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:07:03
Get well soon, Michael — a shame because you were looking solid yesterday.

So the next game will see Zouma and Holgate paired; did anyone watch the U23s and see whether it will be Pennington, Galloway or Browning occupying the bench slot (assuming Mina isn't even fit for the bench)?

Steve Ferns
3 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:08:13
Robert,

Pennington is next in line but he's been heavily linked with a move away on loan, particularly to high-flying Leeds.

Robert Leigh
4 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:11:10
Thanks Steve.

I assume we'll let him go if one of the others can sit on the bench, Jags will be bench-able after next week.

Gavin Johnson
5 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:17:45
There's a report today that Bielsa is pretty indifferent towards Pennington.

Out of the three centre-backs making up the numbers – Pennington, Galloway and Browning. I think Browning is the best. His career could have been very different had he not had the injuries. That said, other than an appearing in the League Cup, I wouldn't be very happy playing any of these three in the Premier League.

It's a shame for Keane. He was the best defender yesterday. I think he'll partner Mina as our first-choice pairing when both are fit.

Derek Knox
6 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:27:05
Gavin @5, agree there by the way regarding Browning over Pennington or Galloway. Although regarding Galloway, I am surprised he never reaĺly made it, when he looked so promising when he first came to us from MK Dons.

I'd be surprised too if Pennington returned to Leeds, as Bielsa has publicly stated he doesn't fancy him. Besides the reactions of the Leeds fans, who don't want him back either.

Barry Metcalfe
7 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:31:28
Firstly I would like to make it clear that I wish Michael Keane a speedy and full recovery from yesterday's injury. However, looking dispassionately at where we are now, it may actually work in the team's favour. My reasoning is that, despite some improvement in Keane's play, it is still below what a top centre-back in the Premier League should be showing.

As I stated in an article last year on this site (The case for defence), Michael Keane lacks the speed, agility and power for a top defender and he cannot compensate for these failings by his reading of the game.

A Tony Adams or John Terry type could cope despite their speed agility weaknesses. Keane's weaknesses are further likely to be exposed by playing a high defensive line – he was badly exposed yesterday and only Holgates recovery bailed him out.

I suspect (hope) that Zouma will now play and be what is required and Mina will probably be in the equation by the time Keane is fit again. This probably saves Keane the embarrassment of being dropped as he has lost his place through injury (an occupational hazard) and we can move forward improved. We shall have to wait a few weeks before seeing how this works out.

Tom Evans
8 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:37:23
Shame in every respect.

To me he is a confidence player and early signs of him embracing that although with a long way to go. How much this injury will affect him is anybody's guess but the main thing is that he makes a full and speedy recovery.

Danny O'Neill
9 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:42:19
I'm with you Barry. Upfront; I hope he is well, recovers soon and is back doing the job he loves.

He is however not good enough. Yes, the supposedly experienced Baines should have known better when he gave the blatant penalty away, yet he should not have been having to make that challenge. Once again (And I don't know how many times this happens; 2nd goal against Wolves in recent games sticks), Keane has an awful habit of letting the ball drift over his head; attack the ball or track & follow it, but don't let it drift over your head. That's docile ball-watching that 10-year-olds get shouted at for.

I said yesterday, he's not good enough and there was a reason he was at Burnley and didn't make it at Man Utd. We got done £30m for believing the latest English player over-hype.

That's my football view but I'll finish as I started, I wish him a speedy recovery.

Bill Griffiths
10 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:44:47
Galloway has-been playing left back for the U23s – not centre-back.
Paul Birmingham
11 Posted 26/08/2018 at 14:57:24
Let's hope Michael Keane has a full and complete recovery from this serious injury.

Going forward now with several centre-backs to pick from, let's hope we can develop the team to the point where it picks itself.

Accepting injuries and suspension is a big part of the game too.

Andy Crooks
12 Posted 26/08/2018 at 15:12:48
It's good that Barry and Danny have grasped the silver lining here. To me, though, it is very disappointing. He was starting to look good and beginning to demonstrate that he will be a much better footballer than the monumentally overrated carthorse that is Harry Maguire.

David Ellis
13 Posted 26/08/2018 at 15:15:46
I'm relieved for the lad that the injury was not more serious. It could have been a career ending injury. If its a fracture I would be amazed if he was fit after 4 weeks – surely 6 weeks for the bone to heal and you don't want to mess around with head injuries.

As for EFC we should be able to roll on regardless. Jags has one more game suspended and Zouma should slot in for the next game. After that Mina and Jags should be available.

I think Keane has a lot of great attributes, but we're just not solid playing a high line with him in the team. I think Baines was also probably at fault for both goals yesterday. I'm hoping Mina is more comfortable on the ball.

Rob B Williams
14 Posted 26/08/2018 at 15:16:14
Keane sidelined due to head injury, better keep him away from Richarlison then for a few weeks... Seems we now have two head cases to contend with!!
Gavin Johnson
15 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:01:01
The comparison between Michael Keane & Harry Maguire often comes up. It usually comes about when people moan that we could have bought Maguire for less money. They can also be compared because they have similar attributes. Maguire, like Keane is a good defender, but he does not have pace. Had we gone for Maguire I have no doubts he too would have struggled in that side last season and he would be a whipping boy like Keane. IMO Harry Maguire isn't any better than Michael Keane.

It should be remembered that Keane was carrying injuries early last season besides playing in a chaotic side. It would have been difficult for anyone coming in. I think a lot of people made up their minds from those early performances. Someone said that Keane is a confidence player and I agree with that. He has been improving since towards the end of last season but a lot of people won't deviate from their opinion. He has looked our best CB this season and in 2 of those games he was playing in a side with 10 men.

I hope he makes a speedy recovery and this doesn't become a major setback as he was starting to cement his place in the side.

William Gall
16 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:06:24
After a number of negatives, ie, the red cards and the Keane injury, I believe that we will now see some positives, in how good a squad we have got, with their replacements wanting to show that they are worthy of being in the team. This should cause a strong fight for positions in the team and make us more competitive.

All the best to Keanes recovery, but the healing time with fractures varies with people, and it could take longer than 4 weeks.

Bobby Mallon
17 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:11:44
It’s four weeks out wether he has a fracture or not as he was unconscious. On top of that he has a fracture. I would say he won’t be allowed back for at least 8 weeks. This is not like a leg break, it could potentially be career ending.
David Barks
18 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:22:29
Bobby,

He’s out a month. It’s already been confirmed he won’t be allowed head contact for 3-4 weeks, at which point he will obviously be returning to training.

Jim Potter
19 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:29:50
Let's hope it's not as serious as the one that ended Ryan Mason's career recently.

A real shame because the real player was beginning to emerge as his confidence began to come back to him – and scoring his first goal would only have added to this resurgence in form.

Chance for Zouma and Holgate now. Mina still a few weeks away I've read.

Good luck Michael.

John Wilson
20 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:29:56
One of our fans is worried that 3-4 weeks is not enough as concussion can have serious effects for life, is their chief concern:

Weeks?

He should be kept out for months, not weeks. Head injuries are no joke, and if he clanged his head hard enough to produce a hairline fracture, then he most certainly suffered a concussion.

I don't care what any official statements may say. My wife suffered a concussion at her workplace, and nine months later she is still suffering with the effects of post-concussion syndrome and can't return to work.
I know as fans we want to see our players back playing, but head injuries are unlike any other type of injury.

He may be able to recover quickly, and I hope he can, but he should not be rushed back under any circumstances. I don't know if he has suffered concussions in the past, but even if this is his first he needs to be very careful.

He has the rest of his life to think about. Here in New England we had a player, Taylor Twellman, who had to retire because of his concussions, and he STILL suffers with symptoms that he will have for the rest of his life. He gives talks about it all the time. Knowing what we now know about CTE and concussion damage, we need to expect long time recovery for these players.

I just wish the best for Michael Keane, and hope he can fully recover.

Keane discovers extent of head injury, sends message to fans

Steavey Buckley
21 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:39:50
I hope Keane gets well soon. That was a nasty head injury. Putting his injury to one side, Everton are defensively as bad as ever, more so, since he is injured. I really have no confidence in Everton keeping clean sheets against the better sides. So, if Everton don't score 3 times, Everton are going to struggle.
Peter Gorman
22 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:40:12
Jim @19, the first thing I thought of when I heard about the fracture was 'Ryan Mason'.

I sincerely hope the injury is not as bad as it sounds and that there'll be no complications at all and he'll recover soon.

Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:44:10
I'm sure we all wish him a speedy and full recovery and if it's any consolation I believe a certain W R "Dixie" Dean suffered something similar in an off-field accident. Let's hope he makes a similar recovery.
Jim Bennings
24 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:48:46
The last thing we needed especially with Mina apparently a long way off even training let alone starting (what’s the issue with this guy?).

I’m not fussy at all on Holgate as a centre back always felt he’s far too flimsy and anything in the air he really struggles to deal with.

Hopefully Zouma comes in and is ready straight away to bust some chops because we desperately need an end to this seeping goals lark.

David Barks
25 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:54:08
Jim,

Mina has a minor foot injury, that’s all. Expected back in a couple of weeks now. So Zouma steps in for Keane and partners Holgate. Jagielka will be on the bench for emergency, but hopefully not needed. Then Mina is available and Keane back a month from now. That’s why we have reserves, to handle a single injury. Just a shame if Keane loses his spot due to injury after he was really improving.

Jim Bennings
26 Posted 26/08/2018 at 16:58:02
David

I hope you are right!

We have history with these “minor injuries “ that seem to keep players out for longer than they actually should.

Christy Ring
27 Posted 26/08/2018 at 17:12:42
Wishing Keane a full and speedy recovery. Getting a lot of flack, but for me, he has been our best defender, and playing with a lot more confidence under Silva.

As for yesterday, it was Baines who was at fault for the 2 goals, no way was Keane at fault. The ridiculous push, gave Bournemouth a lifeline, as for Wilson's header, all Baines had to do, was attack the ball, instead of standing still, waiting for the ball.

John Boon
28 Posted 26/08/2018 at 18:42:01
This is only a time to wish Michael Keane a speedy recovery. His ability as a footballer is really irrelevant considering his injury. As pointed out, a concussion is a very serious injury, particularly if you are expected to head the ball multiple times during a game.
Denis Richardson
29 Posted 26/08/2018 at 18:52:23
Nasty clash of heads, skull fracture and concussion. No way that guy will be playing competitive football for a couple of months, at least. Nor should he. Not arsed what the official site says. Concussion alone is minimum 3 weeks out, nevermind a skull fracture.

Hope he makes a speedy recovery, until then we have enough CBs to cover. When all are fit around November time, will be interesting to see who the first choice 2 will be.

Kunal Desai
30 Posted 26/08/2018 at 18:58:21
We appear to be thin on the ground for centre-backs. With Jags still suspended and Keane out for over a month and Mina unavailable until after the international break, only Zouma and Holgate are available. We've got to ensure we get through the next few games unscathed in this area.
Mike Gaynes
31 Posted 26/08/2018 at 19:19:35
Damn.

Wishing him the very best... and no long-term effects.

John Wilson is correct about the possible aftereffects of a concussion, but every concussion is different. We can be sure he will be closely monitored and repeatedly tested. I seem to remember it took Chivu at Inter two months to come back after a similar fracture -- and he came back wearing protective headgear. Might not be a bad idea for Keane. (I wear it whenever I play a league game.)

Regarding a replacement, not sure how Galloway's name keeps coming up, but to my knowledge he hasn't played centre-back in 4-5 years. (And he hasn't played much of anything for 3.)

But Jagielka won't be available for two more weeks.

Davie Turner
32 Posted 26/08/2018 at 20:10:20
Think Keane should get credit for the obvious improvement he has made under Silva and I hope he returns from his injury as soon as is practical for the seriousness that it sounds.

Similarly I hope his improvement and confidence continue to grow on his return, there is a good player there and potential, it would be great if it could be realised and he can compete with the others.

Stephen Williams
33 Posted 26/08/2018 at 21:19:11
Mike (31),
Whilst I'm not advocating that Jags comes straight back in, I think he will be available next weekend. Was he not banned for 3 games which to my reckoning were Southampton, Bournemouth and Rotherham?

To really throw a hand grenade out there (and many will blow a gasket), I think we'll miss Schneiderlin more than Keane. The way Marco pushes up our full backs really high, we need defensive midfield cover offered by Gueye and Schneiderlin. Regrettably Davies blew his chance yesterday by not attending to any defensive duties. I think he'll live to rue this missed opportunity when everyone is fit.

Terry Farrell
34 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:11:24
Keane was playing well in all games this season and a monster in the box defending away from home with 10 men twice. The Wolves goal and Bournemouth penalty were both not his fault as he was goal side of his man exactly where he should be and where he was when he won all the headers where no-one scored. He is also attacking the ball when in the opponent's box and winning headers. Back him he is a good player and not a dud.
David Cooper
35 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:16:04

I am not an expert on head injuries but I have a good background in concussions and the challenges that face athletes in trying to recover from them.

Returning to action having suffered a head injury and concussion has become a very important topic here in Canada and the rest of North America. When watching Michael Keane’s collision yesterday with Gana, I was not drawn to the clash of heads but more to Michael’s landing and subsequent whiplash that occurred when his head hit the ground. It was very pronounced and reminiscent of many whiplash car collision accidents.

Today’s very good news that Michael has been released from hospital appears to be a good sign. Medical reports that it is 'only' a skull fracture that will heal with 3-4 weeks without any surgery. There are several sorts of skull fracture but this appears to be a linear fracture which is by common consent the quickest and easiest to heal. What will concern the Everton medical team will be the degree of concussion Michael has suffered.

Returning to play has become one of the most complex problems that any athlete who has suffered a concussion can have. Despite many concussion protocols which have been scientifically and medically approved, there is no definitive guide to how long Michael will take to recover. Recognizing how important this Return to Play question is, the Canadian National Coaching Certification Program, requires all coaches to take a short online seminar so that they are fully aware of what to look for.

In my position at the University of Toronto, Faculty of Kinesiology, I come across too many student-athletes in my classes who have a concussion as a result of playing university sports. Each student-athlete recovers at their own pace and some, sad to say, never fully recover. They have to give up playing sport or change to a less dangerous sport and struggle to complete their studies due to headaches etc.

Added to the complexity of Michael’s recovery is the fact that he makes his living by heading the ball and going into many challenges where his head is subject to injury. It may well be 4 weeks for the fracture to heal but it may be many weeks before he is given the all clear to start heading a ball, and then no-one knows how long to regain his confidence to contest heading challenges.

A few years back, Stuart Broad, the England cricketer, was hit by a short-pitched ball even while wearing a helmet. His subsequent attempts to bat show clearly that he is now not comfortable playing the short-pitched delivery and does not get in line. His batting has suffered. Before this injury he had scored a test hundred. So return to play is not only physical but psychological.

I am sure all Blues wish Michael a safe and full recovery – no matter how long it takes. It’s Sod’s Law this happened after he scored his first headed Everton goal and had become very aggressive when contesting headed challenges.

Kase Chow
36 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:26:54
Fingers crossed he'll be okay – sounds like he should be.

He's been much better this season. An asset.

Mike Gaynes
37 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:33:25
Stephen #33, yep, I stand corrected, Jags is available next Saturday. And it'll be interesting to see whether he starts against Huddersfield. My assumption is that Silva will decide after he sees how Zouma plays on Wednesday.

David #35, excellent post.

Ian Riley
38 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:43:49
Forget football performances. Getting back to full health is crucial. This was a career-ending moment. Let's things heal and deal with psychological aspects that come with such an injury with the psychologist.

As with major injuries in sport committing 100% following will need confidence and reassurance. Just get well, Michael, from all the Everton family.

Frank Wade
39 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:51:23
Thanks David #35 for sharing your expert knowledge. I hope and pray Michael can make a full recovery physically and psychologically.

As you say, the hairline fracture may heal in 4 weeks but it will be more difficult to regain the confidence to make the aerial challenges necessary for a Premier League footballer.

Neil Carter
40 Posted 26/08/2018 at 22:52:09
Wish him well.

Looking like he might get a few goals from corners the this season as well.

Ian Bennett
41 Posted 26/08/2018 at 23:05:03
Zouma and Holgate to start for me, and Jagielka on the bench.

Holgate has really impressed me so far this season. Has really stepped up playing well - his passing skills a real plus.

Phil Bellis
42 Posted 26/08/2018 at 23:21:55
Hopefully a full physical recovery with no psychological effects.

Interesting article on BBC from Michael Owen re his hamstring injury... Something a lot of us suspected.

Drew O'Neall
43 Posted 26/08/2018 at 23:29:57
Good post David 35

First and foremost, wishing Michael Keane a full recovery, secondly wishing him as much time as he needs, without pressure from the club. Some things are more important than football.

Tom Dodds
44 Posted 26/08/2018 at 23:37:21
Hell of an analysis, David #35.

I/We can only hope he heals completely and faces his comeback trial with the same fortitude as Seamus did.

And like the Great Man said 'If you find yourself in hell, and lost... just keep walking'.

(Or hopefully heading!)

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

45 Posted 26/08/2018 at 23:47:19
David @ 35.

I asked in a post yesterday on the thread reporting Keane's injury if anybody had an insight into the potential consequences to the player, both physically and psychologically.

Your post answers my curiosity and then some.

Thank you.

Laurie Hartley
46 Posted 26/08/2018 at 03:03:20
It appears from the above comments that Michael Keane can make a full recovery but may suffer some after-effects of the concussion. I hope not, but I am really grateful that the lad is not going to have any mobility issues.

Peter Cech came to mind when I read the comments about headgear. Would he be allowed to wear it as an outfield player?

The lad sustained this injury doing what I for one had been calling for him to do – "attack the ball". Well he certainly did that on this occasion – he never took his eye off it.

Victor Yu
47 Posted 27/08/2018 at 03:38:24
It could have been worse. Speedy recovery Keane!

On the topic of Galloway, it seems like as soon as he signed a new 5-year deal his career has gone downhill? Same thing happened to Garbutt. George Green also mentioned money made him lazy.

Sometimes kids have too much money too soon and they really didn't know how to handle it. It happens in other sports too.

Alex Parr
48 Posted 27/08/2018 at 03:57:10
Great post David [35], thanks for the insight.

All the best Michael. You had started to look the player we knew you could be. Get well soon.

Darren Hind
49 Posted 27/08/2018 at 05:09:00
Interesting post, John Wilson.

We sometimes get carried away with the idea that these are super-fit young men and should be able to recover from these types of injuries quickly.

Caution is required here.

Jon Withey
50 Posted 27/08/2018 at 08:48:42
Might be better to get Jags in for a bit of experience. Although, for a cup game against Rotherham, Zouma should get a game.
Ian Burns
51 Posted 27/08/2018 at 09:00:34
I was critical of Keane pre-season and initially during this due to his lack of speed. However, he has steadily improved over the first three games of the season and was looking solid against Bournemouth.

I wish him a full and speedy recovery and hope he is back fighting for this place back in the near future. Two months for this sort of injury would be a safe resting period.

Eddie Dunn
52 Posted 27/08/2018 at 09:53:09
Keane has looked more confident under Silva and with the right partner could rekindle his reputation. I hope that he makes a full recovery and I am sure the club will err on caution.

On the football, I agree with Stephen Williams (above) in that Davies failed to cover the defence in the way that Schneiderlin does. The Frenchman has improved of late and it will be good to see him protecting whatever centre-back pairing we come up with.

As for Davies, I think he needs more games under his belt and he needs to learn to slow things down at times. With the energy of Gueye and the pace on each flank, Davies doesn't need to rush around so much, often snatching at his passes.

Davies is rightly keen to make an impression, but I think that once Gomes is ready, he will be sitting on the bench.

Paul Mackay
53 Posted 27/08/2018 at 09:58:33
He's done okay for us this season and was starting to get back to the form he showed in his first few games for us after he joined. He's clearly a confidence player and Silva has alluded to that fact in his press conference.

Sad that he will now lose his place in the team and it will be a fight for him to get back in. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Stephen Williams
55 Posted 27/08/2018 at 12:42:29
Eddie (52), I agree that young players always need game time to learn and mature, but this is where I see a massive challenge for Davies.

Clearly he wouldn't be considered for any of the back 5 positions and, realistically, would he get in front of:

- Richarlison, Walcott, Lookman or Bernard for the two wide midfield positions,
- Sigurdsson or Bernard for the number 10 role, or
- Tosun, Calvert-Lewin or Niasse for the central striker position?

I can't see it.

Therefore the only position available would be as the (slightly) more advanced defensive midfield position alongside Schneiderlin or Gana.

It is this position he had auditioned inadequately for for the best part of the last two games and (I expect) against Rotherham.

With two must wins coming up against Huddersfield and West Ham before we get a tougher run of fixtures, Marco may struggle to offer Davies more game time so he mightn't get the opportunity again for quite some time.

All this without factoring in Gomes when he returns to fitness.

I have nothing against the kid, all I want is a winning Everton and if that includes an effective Davies as an integral part then great, but I just don't see him securing a berth. I also don't see him being released for game time on loan until both Schneiderlin and Gomes are fit, by which time the loan window will be closed. Shame.

Paul ONeill
56 Posted 27/08/2018 at 15:23:42
Get well soon kid xxx
Jamie Evans
57 Posted 27/08/2018 at 15:42:42
Get well soon Michael.

No need to rush back any head injury.

Rose like a salmon on Saturday.

Karl Meighan
58 Posted 27/08/2018 at 16:12:24
I've been impressed with Keane in the first 3 games he will never be the quickest but he had been clearing things and looked up for the challenge even being an asset in the opponent's area then this injury strikes.

We need him back fit and well regardless of the time it takes.

Jerome Shields
59 Posted 27/08/2018 at 16:21:17
Wishing him a good recovery.
Jim Bennings
60 Posted 27/08/2018 at 17:52:43
Tom Davies should have been spending this season or at least half of it on loan to a respectable Championship club , it never did the likes of Leon Osman any harm or to an extent Ross Barkley.

Right now Davies is only going to regress even further, he’s not good enough to earn more starts and we can’t just say give him games if it’s to the detriment of the team, he offers pretty much zero so how can more games be justified?

Get to January and then get on the phone to someone like Preston or Derby etc and see if they might be interested in giving the lad 15 games.

Mike Gaynes
61 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:03:40
Jim, he's now the starter. Who would you put there instead?
Jim Bennings
62 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:05:53
Mike

Sigurdsson and Gana with Bernard and when Gomes is fit that’s my midfield, Walcott wide.

Davies might be starting but he shouldn’t necessarily be the starter.

Brent Stephens
63 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:13:38
Jim. And 4 at the back? And Richarlson. That's 11? No place for Tosun?
Jim Bennings
64 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:24:19
Richarlson would be my man up top Brent for the time being when the suspension is up.

I like Tosun for his work ethic but right now he’s not operating in the box to get in scoring positions anyway?

Brent Stephens
65 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:26:58
Ah, ok, Jim. I'd have let you have 12 but you know what some of these refs are like. Can Richarlson play central, if that's where you'd have him?? I suspect Schneids sitting back - with Gomes instead of Gana?
Mike Gaynes
66 Posted 27/08/2018 at 18:56:34
Jim, Gomes is not a defensive mid, and he's also not currently fit. Bernard is pure attacker, no defensive presence at all. So who do you start next Saturday instead of Davies?

And by the way, Tosun is operating excellently, in the box and out. He's making runs, assisting, holding up play very well. Hasn't scored yet but he will.

Jim Bennings
67 Posted 27/08/2018 at 19:18:41
Tell you what Brent, I’m getting that used to seeing us with 10 players so why not be cheeky and try for 12?

I’m not totally against seeing Richarlison playing down the middle as striker, the more I see of him the more I see shades of Thierry Henry you know?

I think Tosun works hard but is he going to be a reliable source of goals and mobility, hmm not sure yet.

Brent Stephens
68 Posted 27/08/2018 at 19:26:30
I'm equally not sure about Tosun, Jim, though I think he works bloody hard in taking opposing defenders out of position for us to exploit (witness goals from Richarlson and Walcott). If Richarlson can play centrally, then that gives us more options.

Si Cooper
69 Posted 27/08/2018 at 20:40:00
To say Michael Keane doesn't have enough power or pace for the level he is playing (and someone else putting Harry Maguire in the ‘cart horse' category) vastly over estimates the abilities of plenty of defenders in the Premier League.

His main failings are his lack of agility/ pace off the mark (I think his top pace when he gets there is reasonable) and out-and-out bravery at times. He's never going to be nippy or agile but better anticipation definitely can lessen those failings, and he already seems to have toughened up a fair amount from his worst showings (how this injury will affect him will possibly be crucial in that regard).

Too many people seemingly play fantasy football with our players, mentally shipping them out willy-nilly when the all-round replacement they envisage is either rare as hen's teeth or only exists in their imagination.

Darren Hind
70 Posted 27/08/2018 at 21:54:06
Mike

Agreed about Gomes, but don't you think Tosun lacks the predator instinct . . he's hardly ever there - in hurt the opposition territory.

Nobody will ever accuse him of being Gerd Muller

Mike Gaynes
71 Posted 27/08/2018 at 22:13:09
True Darren, but he got into predator territory last season frequently, and put away his chances pretty well.

He's coming to the ball much more this year, moving much more away from the goal, I suspect because that's what Silva wants. He's doing a really nice job of holding up the ball, and a couple of his layoffs have been lovely, like that one for Richarlison's goal.

I think he's a perfectly adequate Prem striker, nothing special but a great hardworking attitude. I suspect that if we progress well this season, it's a position Brands will address next summer.

Chris Corn
72 Posted 27/08/2018 at 22:17:18
Why should the likes of Davies or Calvert-Lewin be sent on loan? They are either good enough or they are not.

They are not raw 17-year-olds any more. If they can't do it for Everton now with the amount of opportunities they've had, they never will. I personally think they both have a future but sending them on loan isn't the answer. They need to take their chances.

It makes me laugh when people talk about lack of depth and squad numbers then want all the so-called youngsters (20/21?!) sent out on loan because they are not tearing it up. The best players are producing at that age.

Jim Bennings
73 Posted 27/08/2018 at 22:21:44
Chris

I think if we sold Calvert-Lewin and Davies for modest fees like we did Vaughan back under Moyes, for example, I very much doubt we would be looking back in about five years time with too many regrets.

I think they'll forge decent careers at a lower level but I don't think either have looked good enough to make waves at the top half of the Premier League.

Is Calvert-Lewin as good as Vaughan even was at 21, I doubt it.
I'm not even sure he's as good as Anichebe was, a player never popular due to his lazy arse attitude but still turned in some goalscoring cameo appearances from the subs bench on many occasions.

Calvert-Lewin runs a lot but just never has looked like being anything to write home about in front of goal.

Bobby Mallon
74 Posted 27/08/2018 at 23:22:21
Mike Gaynes, we don't need a defensive midfielder. Just stick Sigurdsson in there with Gana put Bernard behind Tosun and Lookman left.
Gareth Clark
75 Posted 28/08/2018 at 06:53:08
Wouldn’t rush him back - give him all the time he needs to recover.
James Marshall
76 Posted 28/08/2018 at 09:23:06
I love how everyone is an expert at the start of this thread - 3-4 weeks, several months etc..also the media for sending out these so called 'facts'.

None of us can tell the extent of the damage or short/medium/long term effects of a head injury. I managed to bounce my head/face off the road about 7 years ago in a bike crash and it took me a full year to recover from that - I had a small bleed on the right side of my brain but no skull fracture which meant I had numerous issues with memory, balance, chronic-headaches and vertigo, all of which had to be contained with medication and various unpleasant therapies. Waking up 3 days later on a neurology ward is a very odd experience! It also meant 4 complete months off work and a graded return which took over 9 months. Even now, 7 years later I suffer with occasional chronic headaches which may never leave me.

You simply cannot begin to speculate on how long it will take Keane to recover - estimates are not based on any medical fact at all, and every head injury case must be taken in complete isolation. I cite my own experience as one that had to be taken day by day, week by week etc.

I shuddered when I saw Keane go down like that, and hopefully he WILL be back quickly, just don't bank on it, nor speculate on something none of us know the answer to.

Peter Lee
77 Posted 28/08/2018 at 19:17:27
Bobby. Sigurdsson has been outstanding at Number 10. He was at Swansea. He was a poor left-sided midfielder last season and he can't play defensive midfield.
Bobby Mallon
78 Posted 28/08/2018 at 20:17:33
Peter, I know but let's be honest here he (Sigurdsson) is a better midfielder than Davies. Okay, put Bernard next to Gana...

What I'm saying is we keep going on about defensive midfield, if you're a midfielder, you do both attack and defend — it's simple.

Andy Crooks
79 Posted 28/08/2018 at 23:00:18
Darren #70, I think you are a little unfair on Tosun. Muller was a goal hanger, a great one, but they don't exist now days. Tosun's role is as an enabler. Unthanked, unrewarded, unacknowledged. Kind of like my own job!!

He is good and his role is one of the positives of what Silva does. Unlike the defence which seriously concerns me. Silva has done exactly what I thought he would do. Most is to be admired but the defence has the relegation factor that is a worrying trademark.

Our defending remains abysmal,it seems to me that the admirable Silva is trying to teach old dogs new tricks.


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