Silva counts the cost of mistakes against Spurs

Sunday, 23 December, 2018 172comments  |  Jump to last

Marco Silva rued a poor refereeing decision from Paul Tierney but admitted that his team made critical mistakes against Tottenham in their 6-2 humiliation at Goodison Park today.

The Blues were handed a footballing lesson by Mauricio Pochetttino's men despite going a goal up through Theo Walcott and then seeing Dominic Calvert-Lewin's impressive header chalked off for a supposed push on Davinson Sanchez shortly afterwards.

Harry Kane scored his obligatory brace against Everton and there was a brace also for Hueng-Min Son who capitalised on Jordan Pickford's latest error of judgement to level the match and swing the pendulum decisively in Spurs's favour.

It left Evertonians in familiar doldrums going into Christmas with the Blues sitting in 11th place with no wins in five games now.

“Of course we have to feel really bad,” Silva told Sky Sports afterwards. “For sure, we wanted to do something different than the score we achieved.

“We started really well. Of course, we scored first and scored the second goal as well — it's a key moment in the game, in my opinion, when we scored the second goal but the referee saw something there and didn't give the goal to us.

“Afterwards we made a big mistake and we gave them a big moment to equalise. Until that moment we were doing really well. In that moment we had to keep our composure, our shape and to keep playing in our way and be aggressive and it's something we didn't do.

“At this level, when you make mistakes against a team like Tottenham they can create problems and we lost many, many things after that moment.”

 

Reader Comments (172)

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Jim Bennings
1 Posted 23/12/2018 at 18:54:44
Don't go down that road of blaming the referee, Marco.

After a horror show like that today, we could have been 3-0 up and still been thrashed.

If you make schoolboy mistakes against world class players like what Spurs have, then I'm afraid you are going to get toasted every time.

There isn't a single Everton player that would get near that Tottenham team, let's be honest... even Gomes was completely overun by their super-fit athletic beasts in midfield.

Christopher Marston
2 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:01:48
He loves saying ‘moment’.
Jerome Shields
3 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:03:44
It was more than mistakes:

Poor tactical implementation

Poor Coaching,

Poor selection.

A complete failure to address obvious weaknesses from previous games.

One-trick pony tactics that have now been worked out and successfully nullified in the last three games, including today, allowing Everton to be played off the pitch,

This was a home game, Marco.

Kieran Kinsella
4 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:09:26
Rules say you cannot push; it doesn't specify pounds of pressure in the push. Regardless, I think Spurs would have come back.

It is pathetic to pinpoint one call in a home game where you concede six. Tactics were, no communication, no fight.

If anything, Spurs took their foot off the gas. We were lucky it was only 6-2.

Jimmy Hogan
5 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:12:24
Jeez. Merry Christmas Blues.
Kieran Kinsella
6 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:13:40
Don't know whether to pan Zouma or praise him. He seemed to be caught out constantly but was that him struggling or him plugging holes 'cause no-one else was even trying?
Tony Twist
7 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:14:04
Smell that bullshit. Same old same old, managers and players, we get just can't adapt. What did we honestly expect? Everton are drawn to losers, this manager is another fraud, getting paid a fortune for mediocrity.
Paul Ellam
8 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:20:41
Is Big Sam still available? ;-)
Rob Dolby
9 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:23:09
That's the gap we have to fill to compete with the big boys.

Their movement and quality finishing is on a different level than ours.
It was men v boys in the midfield a proper lesson.

Saying that we gifted them 2 goals. In my book Pickford was at fault for the 1st and 3rd for not lining up his wall properly.

I don't fancy our chances vs Burnley on Boxing Day.

Joe McMahon
10 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:23:26
Tony, my wife honestly believes there is a Hex on Everton. You know what, I believe her!
Jim Bailey
11 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:26:02
Let this result be a salutory lesson to all our fans who think this team is in "transition". We are still a million miles from the likes of Spurs and Liverpool. To be 1-0 to 1-5 down is ridiculous. It's not the manager, it's the players. Where is their professional pride? We've all seen this scenario from different clubs over the last few years, players downing tools, it's unforgivable.

Give me 11 players who sweat blood rather than 11 show ponies who believe their own headlines. From top to bottom we are crap.

I'm 61 and truly believe that I will never see my beloved team win the Premier League or whatever it might be called in the future. I've resigned myself, for years now, that we will be also-rans.

Bring on the European super league, at least if that happens we, as being "best of the rest" apparently, will have a realistic chance of winning something. Won't we?

Or, failing all my comments above, just accept that this club is for now and in the foreseeable future, cannon fodder for the Sky darlings.

Transition = bollocks, new manager = bollocks. This club needs players who want to play for it and be proud to do so. Impossible? No. Difficult? yes.

But for everyone's sake let's be realistic. Honestly, if it took a demotion to the Championship to shake this fucking club up, I would take it.

Ah well, rant over.

John Pierce
12 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:28:03
Very poor that he won’t acknowledge his part in the defeat. Most damning was the fact neither he or his charges had the wherewithal to alter things when it was clear it wasn’t working.
John G Davies
13 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:30:56
Hang in there, Marco. You will get some stick now, keep the principles. No short-term fixes please.

We will get results like this on the journey. Painful, but sufferable if we achieve our aim.

Michael Lynch
14 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:33:31
Players have come and gone over the years, as have managers, yet we're still mediocre.

It takes something special to get to where Spurs are – a world-class manager and several world-class players within a team of strong, confident footballers. We are absolutely miles off that right now. So far this season, our manager looks second-rate and so do our players.

What can we do? Keep going, I suppose.

Jim Bailey
15 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:36:49
John G @13. And what exactly is our aim? FFS, 2-6 at home. What is that going to achieve?

By the way, I'm not knocking the manager, I'm fucking furious at the players. Professional pride, waiting for a manager they think is worthy of them. Bollocks, they're not good enough.

John G Davies
16 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:39:32
What is your idea of our aim in Silva's first season, Jim?
John Pierce
17 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:41:33
If the push on Calvert-Lewin from Lovern was a penalty, then there was more contact here from Calvert-Lewin on Sanchez. It's a foul and it took the centre-half under the ball.

Marco needs to own it that rather than whine about the referee, who was rather generous not to card Pickford for a willful studs-up on Alli.

Dermot Byrne
18 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:42:53
Everton are like those other mind-blowingly depressing Blues. All over the place, no Plan B and the rest of Europe laughing at them (if they could be bothered).

Don Alexander
19 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:43:47
I've gone on record stating my faith in the M&M team but today's debacle causes me once again to question why the players at Finch Farm, for years now, are visibly lacking in comparison to the better clubs when it comes to physical fitness and heart?

When you take the field against opponents who are able to consistently zip past you, as Spurs did, and as other teams do, aren't you supposed to be embarrassed as a professional, as a player and also as a coach(es)?

But our players patently aren't are they? And even the newest ones seem now to have adopted the mediocrity of the hell-hole that is Finch Farm, replete as it still is with too many who still "get Everton" in the manner spouted by a certain teary chairman who's been on the board since 1989 — the year our decline began, as far as I'm concerned.

John Keating
20 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:45:25
John @13,

what bloody principles? Stupidity??

If you don't have the players to play the football you would like to play, then simple: don't play it!!

Everyone wants to see the football Man City and our neighbours play but, for fucks sake, they have the players and tactical awareness to do it – we don't.

Until we get the players Silva and Brands want, then for God's sake play to the strengths our present arseholes have. Open football is NOT it

Like Martinez, if Silva continues to totally ignore what almost everyone – seems not you – can see, then he will be another getting a golden pay-off from Moshiri.

John G Davies
21 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:52:12
Golden pay-off after 18 games, John? That's what we need. Gives us time to get rid of the replacement before the end of the season if he's not competing for Champions League after less than half a season.

John Keating
22 Posted 23/12/2018 at 19:59:56
John Davies, what are you talking about? As usual, you can't read or understand posts which are written.

On the other thread, you asked if Martinez should have been sacked after 18 games and you were answered. No, he shouldn't have and the reason why.

Now you say I say Silva should be paid off after 18 games??? You need to sort yourself out, mate. Idiot!

Jim Bennings
23 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:00:33
My aim for us, John, is better than that dross today and the last four games.

For those who want to keep on “writing off the season as one in transition” — look at Joe Royle's first six months (with so-called lesser talent available).

I'd like to see signs the manager had a Plan B when things go tits up but so far I'm looking for Plan A — let alone Plan B.

How much money can we spend to keep writing seasons off as transition with no progress?

Phillip Warrington
24 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:00:43
We are a mid-table team — it's that simple.
John G Davies
25 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:02:43
Like Martinez, if Silva continues to totally ignore what almost everyone – seems not you – can see then he will be another getting a golden pay off from Moshiri.

That's your post, John. And pack the 'idiot' lark in.

Lee Brownlie
26 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:04:55
John Keating (20): If you don't have the players to play the football you would like to play, then simple: don't play it!!'

You mean like Sam Allardyce clearly tried to???

Now I'm no great Allardyce fan, but come on, let's not bullshit each other... that worked out well, and he didn't get totally slagged off for it, right???

Let's just be honest... this was actually just a fucking proper lesson in how far off from the current 'top boys' we are. Still, I'm sticking with Silva and his principles, especially as, just a few weeks ago, it was all looking so promising. Now we're just shit again (and bandwagon time)??? Naah, sorry... not having it!!!

Kieran Kinsella
27 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:07:49
Another summer of buys hailed as great before they kick a ball. Richarlison snd Digne have been mostly good but have had some stinkers, just like Sigurdsson and Pickford.

In terms of goals and assists, Gomes and Bernard have added nothing but some substance-lacking flair. Mina had to be dropped, Zouma hasn't been great. Early days, give em time, as with Tosun, Niasse, Klaassen, Kone, Bilyaletdinov...

Jim Bennings
28 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:10:19
More to the point, Kieran. None of our so-called “big players” turn up for the big games; nothing changed there then eh?

Was Richarlison on the pitch today?

John Keating
29 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:12:09
So John @25, maybe you did read my post? If so, where did I say "sack Silva after 18 games"???

What I said, if you had cared to read my post, was that, IF Silva continues to totally ignore what everyone can see, then he will finish up like Martinez and get a golden handshake.

Not only Martinez but Allardyce and Koeman.

Before you comment, and comment sarcastically on posts, I suggest you read them first.

Jay Harris
30 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:16:37
It was a suicide mission from the start.

Silva sent them out against one of the best teams in the Premier League to go toe to toe. The players confidence is being destroyed — just like it was under Martinez.

The dressing room will start to turn on each other as players look for reasons why they are being humiliated.

I thought Silva was better than this but, on recent evidence, he is a one-trick pony — just like Martinez.

Paul Brown
31 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:19:31
What struck me was how quick spurs moved off the ball and also the quality of striking a ball.

We seem to lack the basics as in controlling and playing a ball, putting in a decent corner for instance. This is not a go at Silva but something I have noticed with Everton players for the last 10 years .

It's early days with Silva so let's give him a fair crack before we all turn on him;, it was only a few weeks ago people were coming in there kecks over him.

As for today? Well, against the top teams, we need to put every chance away to have a chance of winning. We found this out at Old Trafford, the Bridge and over at the Tin Mine... so today is a part of that learning curve, I feel. However Pickford is slowly becoming a weakness, a ginger Grobelaar if you like.

The whole right-hand side needs addressing, along with another goal threat.

John Keating
32 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:21:17
Lee 26,

I can't actually remember mentioning Allardyce in my post? Can you?

Anyway, regarding what I actually said. If you have a Messi then play to his strengths. If you have a 7-foot Peter Crouch then maybe it would be an idea to play long balls. Look at what you have and play to their strengths.

Koeman's problem was trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

Until Silva gets who he wants at the Club, and that might take 2 or 3 seasons then play a system and tactics to suit hat he has. Once he has the players to achieve his vision, then go for it. Right now, it is becoming embarrassing.

Forget today's result, difficult as it might be; go back to the Wolves opener. Have you really witnessed anything or any game in which we have totally controlled, outplayed or outclassed our opponents? Shit, we even had problems against bloody Rotherham in the League Cup.

Dermot Byrne
33 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:22:38
Fair point, Kieran, but some of us always have renewed hope at the start of every season. I run with any clip I can see on You Tube showing the new signings' brilliance. So, for 58 years, I have been mostly disappointed.

To be honest, if I didn't have that insanely unmerited hope, I would find something else to do.

The irony is, as the years pass by quicker and quicker, I feel if we actually win anything, I would probably keel over with a massive coronary!

Ian Riley
34 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:28:50
Oh yes, we were shite again. No midfield and trying to match a regular top four side with fantastic away form. We haven't won for weeks but we can match Tottenham. We needed to play ugly today. Yes, a big Sam performance. Get a draw or snatch a win.

There's showing respect but today we showed no respect and got our arse smacked. Today we got the worst outcome. Shattering defeat which shows how fragile we are.

Those calling for Silva's head, do me a favour. Asking for Jose next!!!

Back to the drawing board. Thanks Everton

Happy Christmas everyone.

Kieran Kinsella
35 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:33:15
Jim

I think one issue is we have a lot of big time Charlie's. Guys who could potentially change a game but tend to be anonymous for long spells.

Today, for example, Walcott and Sigurdsson have their moment with their goals then do little else for 90 mins. Bernard, Gomes, Richarlison, Davies never had their moment so they did nothing at all.

I would like some players like Milner for example who is always good sometimes great. Instead of completely anonymous then score a nice goal once a month.

Justin Doone
36 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:41:31
We got beat by a better team.

We tried to play football so credit due but what cost us was not putting our chances away and gifting them goals.

Pickford at fault again. However, can we drop him? Yes, we can; silly mistakes in a matter of who's cost us points. He needs to learn and that poor performance s are not tolerated.

We need Gana back, badly missed again.

Silva needs to settle on his best centre-back pair. It's a tough call as all can play well one week and then make silly mistakes the next.

Poor defending all around from forwards to goalkeeper.

Not an unexpected result but sloppy performance.

We now need to get back to winning ways asap.

Jim Bennings
37 Posted 23/12/2018 at 20:49:47
Kieran

That's hand on heart why I'm loathe to just go out and spend another shit load of money on more players because we just don't seem to get a blend right.

The only manager who has truly had success in the transfer market was David Moyes and he signed hungry players with fire in their belly and something to prove.

People might not like it but I'd rather shop in the Championship or lower Premier League than go and blow more millions on the likes of Tosun, Niasse, Klaassen from leagues abroad.

At least lads in the Championship or lower-level Premier League know how to put a shift in and work hard for the cause and don't need these six month settling in periods which are no help whatsoever to us.

Today just felt like too many Everton players went through the motions once Spurs levelled at 1-1.

I'm sick of hearing about this good football style too. Good football is winning football and that's what brings the feel-good factors amongst fans.

John G Davies
38 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:02:58
My point was you were talking about the golden pay-off after Silva has been in charge for 18 games, John. How long would you give him?
Colin Malone
39 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:03:41
The best holding midfielder at the club is Idrissa Gueye. Then there is Morgan Schneiderlin & Jimmy McCarthy, players who can keep their position and protect the back four, which improves the balance of the team. Why was Tom Davies was put in that position?
Iain Jones
40 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:04:04
Completely pissed off and depressed after that.

What's starting to worry me now is the defence. A month ago we were reasonably steady at the back; now we are hopeless. Keane seems to have just lost all his confidence again and Colman looks all over the place!

We just need to win immediately and I don't care how!

Benjamin Dyke
41 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:07:20
That match makes me angry at Silva for the first time. It was Martinez Mk 2.

We blatantly can't beat these teams with football yet. He's paid to know that and do something about it but we concede 6 at home. I'm all for being more progressive than Fat Sam but not at that price and not by being so naive.

Hoping Silva is not as bad defensively as I'm starting to fear he is after what we've seen this season. The game plan and purchases are better attacking wise but Mina is not the defensive answer if we don't have good team tactics.

We're going nowhere fast at the moment. All the positives of the first game at Wolves have drained away!

Mark Wilson
42 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:07:48
John #13 what on earth are you going on about ? Making out this result is some form of positive learning point in the “journey”?

There's no 'transition' in this result – just shamefully poor play, poor team selection and frankly no Plan B. We aren't going in the right direction, we are drifting aimlessly and dangerously, going backwards not forwards.

We don't win anywhere near enough football games. We draw too many against so-called lower teams yet frankly we have hardly put together one 90-minute performance against anyone.

This isn't some kind of 10-year plan, John. It's a new manager who isn't going to get the time you seem to think he has to improve things, and right now I don't see anything positive in a drubbing of this scale, just another pitiful disappointment with no promise at all of much better against a half-decent team in this unforgiving league.

Winning is the only progress.

Brent Stephens
43 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:08:13
Consoling myself with the fact that it wasn't as bad as the 10 they once put past us.

Not sure how I managed to stay to the end.

A bitter blue.

Iain Jones
44 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:14:37
I'm going to church tomorrow and praying that, whatever curse is on our club, could the big man upstairs lift it!!!!! Because, no matter what manager we have, no matter what players we get, we're still shit!
Jim Bennings
45 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:15:12
Speaking of Coleman, I'm sad to say but I feel at right-back we are now coming to the same stage we had last summer at left-back in replacing one of my loved players in Baines.

I think Coleman has lost that edge to his game now with that long-term injury and, whilst 30 isn't old, when the position you play in dictates that you need to run up and down the length of the pitch for 90 minutes then we really need to ask if he can still do that job anymore?

His form has been abysmal for ages now and we tried to gloss over it saying it was a loss of confidence etc, but I feel it's gone further than that now.

Don't do to Seamus Coleman what we did to the likes of Tim Howard and Kevin Campbell and let sentiment cloud judgement until that player becomes a target of fans' abuse.

We need a new right-back and we quickly need to face that fact and not brush it under the carpet.

David Connor
46 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:15:44
Marco, you are starting to sound like a fucking stuck record. Every game, same excuses. Earn your fucking corn and sort that expensive bunch of overpaid overhyped useless bastards out before they end up getting you the sack.
John Keating
47 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:15:53
John @38

No you are still not reading what I actually wrote. At no time have I or did I mention 18 games. That is entirely in your mind. I am not going to repeat what I actually wrote or repeat what I corrected you on. If you cannot read or comprehend the written word then there's nothing I can do.

To answer your specific question on how long I would give Silva then no problem. I would give him until the end of next season. That would be 4 transfer windows and if we were still stagnant and in this "transition" situation some like to talk about then I'd bin him.

If there were definite signs of improvement – which there isn't now – I would look at his third contracted year and look to extend his contract.

I think he should have been given a 2-year deal which would have allowed us to see where he was leading us. Too many managers and players are being rewarded for failure.

Frank Kearns
48 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:24:06
I can't blame Silva as readily as some; I'm just resigned to having second class players with no ambition and fuck-all ability, with their heads up their arses, and creaming their wages.
Colin Glassar
49 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:25:31
That’s it for me this season. I’m sick and tired of spending my hard earned cash watching that crap. Marco is fast becoming the new Roberto without the phenomenal brown shoes.

Pickford is a disaster waiting to happen. Coleman and Walcott are utter garbage and Tom Davies is following in the footsteps of Vaughn, Rodwell, Barkley etc Going slowly down the drain.

Too upset to offer any further comment but Seamus is now surely finished as a regular starter. His only ability now seems to be shouting and screaming at his own teammates to cover up his own shortcomings.

Paul Birmingham
50 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:25:47
Today's reality check puts this season and this squad in perspective. Basic defending and communication skills lost and I sensed some players today lost their bottle.

Sadly, Keystone Cops is back again with our defence... The signs were there even before we scored but you could see their goals happen before the event.

Really hard dose of reality. No doubt Turf Moor will become hell, and they'll fancy their chances, and who starts will be interesting. Out-played and out-classed. Despite the rank piss poor referee, you'd still take Spurs to win, even if we went two up.

Moral now is key, get Gana back for Burnley, else we will get overrun and beaten up. Anyone know what was wrong with Lookman today?

Not the best of Starts to Chrimbo, and I recall when Man Utd did us 2-6, on Boxing Day 1977.

Dark Sky's over Goodison Park, and plenty of storms to ride the next month and the rest of this season.

Jim Bennings
51 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:28:21
How many of those players we saw today are going to roll up their sleeves and be ready for a physical battle at Turf Moor on Wednesday? Because Sean Dyche will have his men pressing us hard and one thing they do is work.

Same at Brighton, Chris Hughton will have his team fighting in front of their own fans.

I'm not so sure there is enough spine and character at Everton to prove me wrong but I've got reservations about winning these.

Len Hawkins
52 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:32:53
Just to put the game into perspective, I was at Goodison Park in '77 when Everton were at home to Man Utd and on an unbeaten run of about 23 games – we lost 2-6, every time they attacked, they scored. I think Macari got 4.

These games happen but talk about sacking Silva is ridiculous. The only people who can change things are the players. I am absolutely positive he didn't tell them to go out and get hammered.

John G Davies
53 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:35:03
Get of your high horse John, you're talking plums.

Why, if you would give him two seasons, would you mention him getting a golden pay-off?

Shaun Lyon
54 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:35:32
Iain at 44... good luck with that one. Living down south, I had to endure that horrible unfolding of shite while surrounded by Spurs supporters. I am 51 years old and, without looking up any stats, I can't remember being beaten at home by that scoreline by them in my lifetime.

They were condescendingly gracious in an "Oh never mind, mate, you're heading in the right direction" manner etc... but the fact is it's a disgraceful result. Six put past us at home, FFS! How far we have fallen? Sick to friggin death of it.

Ian Lloyd
55 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:40:34
Disgrace.

Why did we head-hunt this guy?!?

Wonder what all the Silva fan club have to say about this performance?!?

ps: I was there in the flesh and it was disgraceful.

Paul Thompson
56 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:41:31
Marco's reported comments above are accurate as far as they go. We started okay, should have been two up, lost a stupid goal and our composure went. But that misses two things:

One – the rest of the bloody game! Silva had no Plan B when Plan A was clearly not working.

Second: Plan A itself. A high line against one of the slickest, quickest teams in the Premier League was always a disaster waiting to happen. And it did.

Of course, further mistakes and poor performances from many players compounded the problem, but the problem started with the set-up. Not calling for the manager's head, but I hope for all our sakes that he is capable of learning from what happened today.

Chris Gould
57 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:42:37
John Keating,

When you employ a manager like Silva, you do so because you want your team to play in his style. You understand how he sets his teams up and the type of tactics he employs.

You don't ask him to come in and change his style to suit the players he has. The players have to adapt to his style and principles. Over time, he will then get rid of those who can't adapt, and he will replace them. It takes time.

Yes, criticise him along the way as he won't always get it right, but don't expect him to change his methods to suit these players. Both Klopp and Guardiola had very average first seasons as it took time to really embed their principles into the club, and to purchase the right players.

Silva won't change for his players. He will expect them to change for him. And if they can't, they'll be gone.

John Keating
58 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:45:55
John, I think you might have a mental issue.

Silva has a 3-year deal; if he hasn't shown a massive improvement after 2 years, he will need to be binned. Simple.

For some reason, known only to yourself, you keep on about this 18 game thing. God only knows where it comes from... maybe best asking your shrink.

Anyway, I can't be arsed bothering with you any more. If you can't read or understand a post then don't respond to it... you obviously have issues.

Like a few on here, there are people who would rather argue all day.

Joe McMahon
59 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:47:09
Nowt has changed has it, August 2009 Everton 1 - 6 Arsenal. And that Everton team included what some say have been Evertons better players over the years, but interesting the awful Jo as the only Striker and Saha a sub?

The golden Moyes years were no different:

24 Howard
02 Hibbert
03 Baines
04 Yobo
05 Lescott
18 Neville
17 Cahill
20 Pienaar
21 Osman (Saha 58)
25 Fellaini
11 Jo (Rodwell 58)

John G Davies
60 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:47:32
Hahaha.

Good evening, John.

Bobby Mallon
61 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:51:59
Sam Allardyce would not have lost 6 fucking 2. This average Martinez Silva needs to change his tactics very soon, the fucking useless twat. Get Mourinho in now.
Steavey Buckley
62 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:53:56
The turning point was when the referee disallowed a good goal and Pickford had another moment of madness. The Spurs players, knowing referee decisions will go for them, were gifted a game, they could have easily lost.

No wonder no British referee was allowed anywhere near the World Cup. But why Coleman was allowed to play must mean the end of Kenny.

Mick Conalty
63 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:54:24
The players EFC have on their books are all good players and seasoned internationals. It therefore can only be the fault of the coaching staff and management when they turn out dire performances.

I suggest we get a shrink or hypnotist to sort their minds out
– including Moshiri and Kenwright.

John Keating
65 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:55:59
Chris,

Spot on you are correct in that players should adapt to Silvas style but it is quite obvious, unless we are all seeing something different, that the present squad either will not or cannot adapt to it.

That being the case, Silva has two options. Persevere, and we continue the dross performances and results we have witnessed so far this season. Or, adapt to suit the players until he gets the players he wants.

Even Guardiola changed his philosophy slightly last season to adapt to the Premier League – his own admission. So if he can adapt I suggest Silva could consider it.

Silva modified his failed season-starting zonal marking. Is it not possible he can adapt his tactics?

Shaun Lyon
66 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:56:05
Ian at 55, I wasn't at Goodison Park today but I thought it was disgraceful.

We can only play one way. I don't think it's uncommon in the Premier League now, probably more so with the higher end teams. The problem is we don't have – player for player – individuals as good as Spurs do.

Take the Son finish: who would you bank on to score if it was an Everton player from that position? I'd go for Sigurdsson and maybe Richarlison and that's it. Spurs have Son, Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Lamela and I'd fancy their chances.

I was at Goodison for the Newcastle game and frankly Benitez did a number on us tactically and we had absolutely no response. So depressing.

Brian Patrick
67 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:56:08
Moshiri has to jettison the entire infrastructure, the entire Kenwright croney nepotism show, and get competent academy coaches, management in. Finch Farm is full of cronies.
Trevor Powell
68 Posted 23/12/2018 at 21:59:38
Shades of Watford last year? The bounce has gone and the clubs know what to expect from us. Marco this is the time to stand up and be counted!
Jim Bennings
69 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:00:37
Shaun 66,

Son is a brilliant little player isn't he?

He doesn't get the recognition of some players in other top six clubs but he's a fantastic footballer and when you watch the likes of him, Eriksen and Dele Alli it shows what true top class players are all about.

Contrast to that with our statues that don't move into space, wait for the ball to come to them rather than anticipate things and are just basically two yards too slow.

I can't believe in four years how far behind Tottenham we have actually fallen, it's astronomical.

Paul Jones
70 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:03:12
I was in the park end for Calvert-Lewin's 'goal' and I saw him blatantly pushing the defender. It was so obvious I didn't even stand up to cheer it.

I agree on Pickford and their first goal. He's glued to the line when opponents swing in corners yet feels the need to run out of his box when he wants to get involved in the game. He may get better but the last thing we need is a goalkeeper with ADHD.

Today, we played as badly as we did against Watford but were punished by a side that knows what it's doing. I worry that we have to face the rest of the top 5 at home at the end of the season. We're mentally and physically weak and need to get a grip otherwise this worrying slide down the table continues...

Shaun Lyon
71 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:05:43
Jim, although it's depressing to hear about excellent players who have never played for us – my Spurs mate was telling me that Son was voted into the all-time Hamburg side by their fans. He only played one season there, apparently... (And yes, Keegan was in it too alas.)
Mick Conalty
72 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:05:57
Bobby 61#, I"ll go with that, Mourinho and us fans – we can all be fucking miserable and angry together. Angry enough to start twating some teams instead of the other way around.
Rob Hooton
73 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:06:49
Well, that was both embarrassing and demoralising, awful from back to front. The writing was on the wall early doors and we could easily have been three nil down before we scored the opener against the run of play.

Pickford must have cost us 10 points this season thus far? Rumour has it Man Utd will buy him to replace De Gea in January- will they heck!

Close to giving up, maybe they should build a 10k new stadium for the self-harmers as we have gone nowhere near in the last decade.

Merry Christmas, ffs, lol!

Peter Mills
74 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:10:46
Jim #69, I was pretty upset with many things at Goodison today. Among them was being jeered by a fellow Evertonian for applauding Son as he was being substituted. He played a blinder.
Trevor Peers
75 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:17:03
Silva's career in the Premier League follows a similar pattern, he starts off well, makes people believe they're on to something good with some victories. Just when it looks like he could be a brilliant coach, he suffers a series of catastrophic defeats from which he never recovers, it's happened at Hull, Watford and now the blues.

Quite how Moshiri thought he was the man to take us forward is a mystery, it was always a massive gamble to appoint Silva, he must've been aware of that? I can't see him being a success after today's result; confidence will be shattered into tiny irreparable pieces.

Geoffrey Williams
76 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:17:31
Study the end of season home games and you'll realise that relegation is a serious prospect if performances fail to improve soon.
Colin Glassar
77 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:17:43
I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but the similarities between Marco and Roberto are eeerily identical, eg:

Wide open play, no Plan B, poor subs, team tactics sussed out by opposition after half a season, players going through the motions, endless sideways passing etc...

Marco, for the love of god, don't put us through that again, I beg you. Not another false dawn, for fuck's sake. I can't take this anymore.

Ian Lloyd
78 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:18:32
I'm tired of hearing how wonderful Pickford is – he is that poor id rather have Robles in and I'm not joking!

Spurs have a clear pattern and their movement, players and passing are excellent – they could have scored 10 today.

Our pattern / gameplay is non-existent and this charlatan has no idea. I'm not exaggerating when I say we are in trouble.

I got shot down when I said Silva would be gone by November – I'll change that, I'll give him until end of January

I travelled from Doncaster to watch my beloved Everton and had to endure the dross that was served up and will continue to be servers up as we have no other game plan.

Annoyed doesn't even come close to how I'm feeling

Jim Bennings
79 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:19:33
Peter,

I noticed quite a few people applauding Son when he was subbed and Son himself acknowledged the applause.

A truly brilliant footballer, reminds me of Peter Beardsley.

Denis Richardson
80 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:31:26
Joe 59 - if memory serves me, I think we lost that Arsenal game badly 'cos Lescott was about to leave the club having had his head turned by Man City. That was a bit of a one-off.

This game on the other hand was at home to Spurs, a club we were supposed to be on par with not too long ago. Utter thumping and the only thing I find funny is there are some on here who see some 'positives'. There are no positives in a 2-6 home thrashing - can't even say we had anyone sent off and to make things worse, we were 1-0 up.

Too early to be calling the managers' head but the fact is half the outfield players were signed by him and the likes of Sigurdsson, Walcott and Keane are internationals who are supposedly not part of the deadwood needing clearing.

Our players are better than this and we got thumped due to a combination of poor tactics and poor defending. One thing Silva is not known for is his defending and Mina for me looks like a serious waste of money already. Time will tell.

Funny how many people are okay to write the season off as 'transition' as if we're the only ones who started with a new manager and a handful of new players. Half-way through we're 11th, only 3 behind 7th admittedly – which is the best we can hope for. Our level is with Wolves, Bournemouth and Leceister for now but we should not be conceding 6 at home against anyone – just embarrassing.

I'm just hoping for a decent run in the FA Cup – we're not going to do anything in the Premier League. We'll finish between 8th and12th.

Dick Fearon
81 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:40:47
I was at the Liverpool Empire that day many years ago when we suffered a 10-4 hammering at White Hart Lane. Des O'Connor took the piss out of us with the Highway Patrol call sign "10-4".

After all these years, when other clubs have crashed and burned only to rise again and leave us struggling in their wake, it seems we are still a friggin Joke.

Wes Ray
82 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:49:28
Jim 23; totally agree with you. We are supposed to see from Silva some kind of principles and lofty tactical ideas. I can't see any of that.

Also, I refuse to accept that our players are that bad as claimed. Sure, at some positions we are some way off from the best and lack in depth but most are world-class and seen bigger things than this.

Why they seem to be losing the belief? Because they all are bad, pampered pros? Or maybe Silva's ideas are not feasible. Maybe his management skills not up to par.

I don't really care, this supposed to be a professional team playing for results. We been here before so there are no excuses this time; Brands has to react.


Jim Bennings
84 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:57:50
Yes Wes.

Silva has been here six months, he's had a full pre-season to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses and we are now midway through the season.

I don't see any change to our set pieces, it's just the same failed corner clueless.

I don't see any real fitness levels that stand out six months on from when he took over.

I see the same schoolboy mistakes still prominent from the Martinez era, the same naivety at the back for instance.

Nobody expected miracles but the next three games are huge in the context of the season; if we fail to win any of these then I believe we are looking at a 12th or 13th place finish.

We have had nearly three years of Moshiri millions now, this is not where I (or he himself) really envisaged is still being stuck with little serious progress on show.

December and we are below Wolves and Bournemouth.

Jerome Shields
85 Posted 23/12/2018 at 22:59:21
Brian Patrick #67,

I agree we need to get rid of back-up coaching staff who continue in position through now three different management regimes with the same result.

Liam Reilly
86 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:03:58
A usual, a shite Christmas present from the Blues. A fucking shocking performance right out of the bottom drawer.

I reckon fixing this will be harder than the guy with five loaves and two fishes.

Good luck, Marco.

Dave Woodhead
87 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:06:15
Loads of our players didn't turn up today... it's getting a worrying trend.

Sad to say but Walcott and Coleman down the right are really struggling. :( If its true PSG are taking Gueye from us, unless Brands has a player of his ilk as a replacement I think we're gonna be lucky to finish top 10!

It will take time for Silva to get in his own players and adapt to his philosophy – we will take a few defeats like this on route – I do believe he'll get it right in time...

Jim Bennings
88 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:07:46
Liam

That was our answer to the Redshite going four points clear at the top.

Christmas, Everton Style!

Chris Corn
89 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:08:28
Utter shit today. However, anyone who may seek to claim Allardyce would not have been beaten like that needs to remember the Spurs, Arsenal and City games when it was all done and dusted by half-time.

That said, this can't go on. £0.3bn spent in players and managers in three years and that is what we are subjected to.

Jason Wilkinson
90 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:10:53
What is really concerning is not a good drubbing by Spurs today but the lack of fight and spirit within the group.

Pickford has shown a bit of decent towards a few of his teammates recently. He tried to blame Zouma today. He has had a few digs at Keane, Mina and Coleman. I'm not averse to him having a dig if they're not putting a shift in but he isn't. He is just trying to pass the buck for his own shortcomings.

Coleman's poor form has been well documented but, while he is captain, he needs to show us that it hurts a bit more and galvanise the team (give teammates a massive kick up the arse).

Tom Davies and Gomes do not do enough to help out at the back.

Siggy is naturally a quiet character but leads by example (individual brilliance) like his goal today. He still needs to do more graft.

Richarlison and Bernard look patchy and Walcott needs a spell on the bench.

Tosun, Niasse, Schneiderlin and McCarthy are probably going to have to move on to get regular football.

Jagielka and Baines have been great servants but I think we all know they are Everton's past rather than future or even present.
Gana has been sorely missed and I for one will be gutted if he leaves. Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Baningimie, Kenny and a few of the other youngsters need to be more consistent to force there way into a regular starting berth.

I don't have the answers but one thing that has always stood is a team with a lot of spirit and guile will trouble any side with class alone. I would rather see some fight and a few scrappy results than all the flair and no end product.

Time for Marco to read the riot act and tell some home truths. Start scrapping for the points or fuck off.

Sam Hoare
91 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:12:30
Ian@78 you were rightly shot down! You were wrong. And I highly suspect you'll be wrong again.

Silva will still be here by the end of January. Though if we're still playing like this by then perhaps the end of February might be more realistic.

Paul Birmingham
92 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:15:47
Tomorrow I hope that M& M give the squad a rollicking and get back to basic drill. The team must learn to be a team, take ownership, responsibility on the park, give blood, sweat, and tears for EFC, like the Everton supporters do, in what seems purgatory.

The next couple of games are massive, but the crossbar is deffo lowered, and alas this is a season of development. Not enough heart, fight and belief in my view and back to square bashing tomorrow, in defending, attacking and playing like a team.

It's a long time since the RS, game and the Devils curse, appears to have struck again. Until we stop the Kamikaze passes, from goalkeeper, and defence, and look like we want to ply football, rather than cricket, then the suffering and stretch of patience will be a long time.

I sense today that some true colours and capability of some players was shown. Out classed in determination, belief, team work and ability. I'm not deluded but there's a long way to go, to be consistently good, and we are like the UK weather, and Burnley will kick the crap out of our team on Boxing Day, unless we prepare and have a plan.

Brings back memories of Spurs 0-4, win in 84, I think, 1st game and John Chedozie, Done us and today, Song done us.

Overall we are not really been going to the races as a club, and I get how some are totally dismayed but my forefathers and family are Blues through and through, so we take the rough with smooth, bit more than ever with EFC, it's the rough. Gotta to keep the wit and humour going, one day soon, we may put a run together and win the FA Cup.

Fair play to Spurs, but we gave it to them on a plate with fill waiting service today, such was our crap game management and communication.

Signing off and Keep The Faith, and Have A Great Chrimbo, All Evertonians.

Simon Smith
93 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:15:57
What a fucking Christmas us blues are on for, the Red Shite top, we're out of the top 10, and Spurs give us an absolute roasting. I wish What'sApp wasn't ever invented too now as I'm simply being tortured by my red mates.

I feel for Silva, I mean with Gana and Gomes now missing v Burnley what the fuck are we going to do.

I felt a bit for Davies and believe he will do better next time out, he's not played in a while and he got a lesson today, he was poor but far from the only one.

Myself, I'd play Sigurdsson and Davies in a two-man midfield v Burnley, with Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison up top, Bernard and Walcott/Lookman on the right.

Defence wise I'd never know who to play, the goalkeeper and the whole back four was simply shocking, even Digne was utter shite, he's been brilliant so I'd give him a walk over this week, but Mina has to come back in and Kenny can't be worse than Coleman has been recently.

Pickford is a tough one too, he's been shite of late, I'm wondering if he needs a few games out of the limelight, but Stekelenburg isn't anywhere near as good as him so dropping Jordan is a big risk.

So many problems today, it's untrue. I'd go back to the starting 11 from before the derby if we could but the injuries in centre-mid are a huge issue.

Jim Bennings
94 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:19:48
Pickford needs to get a grip of himself – not show dissent to others.

He's becoming erratic and why on God's green earth he was rushing out of his box on that first goal today mystified me because Zouma had the situation under control, all it did was confuse a basic bread-and-butter situation.

Pickford is also culpable for the second goal, it's a cardinal sin to push the ball back into the danger area and that's exactly what he did.

On the third goal when Harry Kane is first to the rebound off the post it's because Seamus Coleman is caught daydreaming rather than sniffing out potential danger, again a cardinal sin for an experienced professional.

There's a reason why opposing players benefit from rebounds, it's because they are more alive to them and we are sleeping.

Pathetic schoolboy mistakes; given the money we have spent it's a joke that we are conceding goals that you'd see on an Under-11s pitch.

Eddie Dunn
95 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:23:50
I would cancel Xmas and get the whole squad and coaches in on Xmas day and watch the game on a continuous loop until they are sick.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

96 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:49:21
Trying to make sense of today's result and the slump following the late-late defeat in the derby game can leave a Blue scratching your head.

Leading up to the game at Anfield, there was a majority 'good feel' factor about how the club was progressing under Silva. We were on a good solid run, even with defeats away to Arsenal and Manchester United when many acknowledged we played well, as we did away to Chelsea in a 0-0 draw.

We'd conceded just 4 goals in seven games with 4 clean sheets in that time. Until the 96th minute of the game against Liverpool, we looked to be adding a 5th clean sheet and a well-deserved point against 'them'.

In the four games since then – three of them at home... well. Does anybody really need reminding?

In the wake of that late wounding loss across the park, I wrote on TW it will tell us a lot about the team how we react and perform against Newcastle and Watford. Again, no-one needs reminding that we didn't react or perform well... Why not?

Considering the opposition, the slightly tweaked starting XI in both those games should have been enough to ensure victory. However, in both games we looked lethargic and Silva's substitutions in the Newcastle game appeared pre-determined, rather than pro-active in response to what was happening on the park, and similarly unimaginative against Watford.

So the manager's substitutions in both those games did nothing to change the course of the game and there was no evidence of an inspirational change of tactics in-game to swing the match in our favour.

Away to Man City last week, Silva got the selection and the tactics wrong from the off. Silva only changed things around after going 2-0. There was a marked improvement after that, but individual errors at critical times further compounded our problems.

And then we have today. Unlike some, I will not criticise our two centre-backs today. They were on a hiding to nothing with the way the team was set up and played against a side as skilled, mobile and savvy with the likes of Dele Alli, Eriksen, Kane and Son. They had absolutely no protection in front of them and were isolated all the more with Silva's insistence of playing the full-backs so far advanced from the centre-backs.

I asked at half-time in Michael's live match feed why either the manager or the players themselves (in particular the captain, Coleman) were not recognizing this and doing something to correct it? I added if they continued playing the way, it could get messy.

So to get them in at half-time and to send them out for the second half with no change of personnel and playing the same way was... puzzling, troubling.

The nagging doubts expressed in the summer debate about the merits and de-merits of recruiting Silva were three-fold:

● His poor managerial record in the Premier League
● His sides conceded lots of goals
● His ability to arrest a winless run

He and we were doing well up to, and including, the game at Anfield. Since the dagger to the heart in the 96th minute of that game, we have, for the most part, been dreadful. Why? How?

I don't believe in curses or ill-luck and I acknowledge our record against the top six for the most part of the Premier League era has been and is a disgrace. I agree that the governance of Bill Kenwright is a significant cause of why that is the case.

But we are now three years into the Moshiri reign. Kenwright is now just a figurehead, not a policymaker. We are onto our 4th manager under Moshiri. There has been unprecedented big money investment in the squad. And... nothing is changing. The manager is different. The players are different. But an all-too-familiar pattern of Everton flattering to deceive and raise our hopes, only to almost immediately dash them again.

Inevitably, questions get raised:

● Is Silva a one-trick pony and now his system at Everton is 'known', that teams find it easy to counter it and Silva has no counter to their counter?

● Are we recruiting, or preparing from the academy, players with sufficient heart, rancour, a winning mentality, that is fundamentally important to achieve success?

It is still way too premature to completely write off Silva or the new recruits. But, without doubt, this slump puts all of them under added pressure to arrest this slump and to demonstrate to us that, long-term, we can and will benefit from appointing Silva and trusting in his and Brands's recruitments.

Tony Everan
97 Posted 23/12/2018 at 23:58:17
It is sad talking about the deficiencies at right-back, but it has got to the stage now that teams are relentlessly attacking that area and exposing the weakness. It exacerbates the problem. Burnley will be focusing their attacks down that channel and maybe now it's time for Kenny to take over. Sacrilege!!
Paul Birmingham
98 Posted 23/12/2018 at 00:10:33
It's painfull but reality bites... it's so bad it's as if we really are light-years of the pace.

I sense today that Silva's body language didn't tell it all, but we need a squad and almost a massive investment to get close.

I've said before get Werner but after today's show and recent form, we will struggle to get any decent players to come.

I live in genuine hope and every day is a good day but EFC, does stretch your soul to the limit.

This season, and beating I've stated the crossbar is lowered, in terms of genuine aspirations for this season, it's further lowered after today.

We are a wicker-framed team with no fighters and leaders and on the pitch; the blend of skill, brawn, eyesight, instinct, tenacity, scope and vision only works with belief and guts.

I'm struggling to see any real Spartans, Corinthians, in this squad, and for some, Father Time, and Lazy Time, has caught up.

For Silva, now he needs to be an Alchemist, as we need some magic, from somewhere... very fekin quick.


Liam Reilly
99 Posted 24/12/2018 at 00:11:38
Jonjoe Kenny at right-back to save our season, sweet Jesus.

There's a lot more wrong than right-back.

6 at home is indefensible; they should all give their week's salaries to the Children's Hospital, because they don't deserve it.

Bobby Thomas
100 Posted 23/12/2018 at 00:53:42
Early on this season, I thought we were settling in, which was perfectly understandable. Then, around about Chelsea away, I thought his preferred team gelled and things were progressing nicely. I will be honest I didn't see this run of form coming.

Post Anfield, we have been poor. Watford were unlucky to leave without three points. After about 25 minutes of that match, I knew they had us sussed and it took Silva about 25 minutes of match time to change it.

Today, it was blatantly apparent we were getting killed in midfield and that it needed changing or we were going to get hammered. Silva did nothing and we just kept playing the same way with the same set up.

The tactics and selection were way too cavalier. It was irresponsible and naive. It was Martinez-esque. People need to lay off Zouma and Keane as they didn't stand a chance today, they were left exposed and without protection.

We have 2 midfielders worthy of the name – Gomez and Gana – and after that there's nothing. Without Gana, there's no-one to screen the centre-backs.

And that includes Tom Davies, who according to some on here "has the lot". Well, I'm afraid I struggle to see any outstanding attributes, in any phase of the game. He will be a solid pro. He may eventually drop a division.

The worrying thing for me was the lack of fight and heart. I don't know if Pickford's error had an effect on the players' mentally but there was just no reaction. Look at the players after the 2nd & 3rd goals. Richarlison, by the way, just wasn't at it and seemed like he was cruising.

As for Pickford, if we had a competent back-up then, for the sake of his long-term development, I'd drop him. He fancies himself just a little too much. As it is, we are going to have to stick with him and if there's any more nonsense then he absolutely must be dropped – England keeper or not, you can't have this. Shit like that is unacceptable. He was at least partly to blame for the 3rd as well.

As for Silva's post-match interviews, going 2-0 up would have made little difference. The team was set up to fail and we were finding Spurs very difficult to cope with. Silva needs to own his mistake.

I think we are a decent side and have had some bad fixtures. I also think the striking problem is making things a little difficult. But we need to get tight, solid, organised and get a couple of wins on the board sharpish.

Going forward, aside from a striker, long-term a wide midfielder with energy, legs and physicality (who can play as well obviously) is in order. A Willian type. We have wingers or nothing and it leaves the full-backs exposed.

Marcel Brands has stated the January transfer policy is "one in, one out". If we can deal Schneiderlin out, we also need another genuine holding player in. That may have to be the summer though.

I think we will be okay but we need a win before the players 'confidence starts taking a hammering. If we don't get 3 points soon, then the Leicester game is going to be a tense one as the home form hasn't been great.

Kieran Kinsella
101 Posted 24/12/2018 at 00:59:48
Martinez all over again... 'cause – like him – Silva has an all-out attack strategy that relies on one midfielder tackling for 11 men.

Bob went downhill after his first season 'cause McCarthy got injured. Silva now has been found out as soon as Gana is injured.

Don Alexander
102 Posted 24/12/2018 at 01:04:41
Jay Wood (#96), that's exactly what I've been saying, albeit in less words.
Derek Knox
103 Posted 24/12/2018 at 01:18:58
Bobby @100, you make a lot of very valid points and observations. What stands out to me is the lack of team spirit and, as you mentioned, too many players without the commitment.

It has been in evidence to the fans for quite a few games now, that there is no sign of a game plan, and we seem to have a mixture of talented individuals and grossly over-rated, over-paid journeymen.

Couple that with a Manager who, deep down, I believe, does not really have a positive strategy for taking us in the right direction, which is forward.

He likes to present himself as a tactical genius, and he does handle himself remarkably well in front of the cameras, but I believe he is another in a long line of bullshitters that we seem to have a propensity in appointing.

What really puzzles me is that it is strikingly obvious that our benefactor, Moshiri, knows little or nothing about football, has wasted so much money in both appointing managers ill-suited for the job, and sanctioned ridiculous transfers for players who are just not good enough.

Which beggars the question, is he acting on his own naivety, or is he being ill-informed or ill-advised, and by whom?

Laurie Hartley
104 Posted 24/12/2018 at 01:26:04
I have just subjected my self to the 22-minute highlights – I just couldn't bring my self to watch 90 minutes of a 2-6 battering at Goodison Park.

I thought this team had more in them that that but this was worse than the 0-3 smacking by Spurs I witnessed on my last visit to the UK and the Old Lady last year.

It was far too sad a spectacle to pick on individual performances. I commented after the Anfield game that I thought this squad would feed off that but how wrong I was.

Bobby #100 – I agree with nearly everything you say except that Willian would be no good to this outfit. We should get Drinkwater and Ozakawi in the January window. They are what we need – an injection of what you call fight and heart.

Roger Helm
105 Posted 24/12/2018 at 01:31:05
Not since the Moyes era have we had a team capable of matching other teams for fitness and commitment. They may have been limited technically, especially with the absence of a goalscorer, but I don't remember them embarrassing us with lack of commitment.
Bobby Thomas
106 Posted 24/12/2018 at 02:41:57
Laurie #104

Oh, Willian was just an example of the type of wide-ish mid I think we need. Someone that can play midfield wide but narrow, if that makes sense. That can play, but is athletic and dynamic.

Crucially, it would also enable us to play a 4-3-3. We are currently unable to as we don't have the right mix of midfielders, or any decent ones at all really, which is one of the reasons we are getting predictable. We can't change things too much formation-wise.

I like Drinkwater. But he's nearly 30 I think, and on that basis alone should be swerved.

Silva is beginning to find out how poor his midfield options are. Thank God we got Gomes.

Gareth Rosslee
107 Posted 24/12/2018 at 02:48:22
Almost every time we get rogered these days, Tom Davies is on the field. I realize that he came through the youth system and is a young player, but I've rarely seen a player so far off Premier League standard.

No composure on the ball, slow and unwilling/unable to track back. I read other players getting lambasted on here week in and week out, but Davies gets a relatively free ride. Strange.

Ed Prytherch
108 Posted 24/12/2018 at 03:45:55
A few weeks ago, Gomes, Gana and Siggy were our perfectly balanced midfield but we have no depth in the squad. Take out one of the three and we are poor. Silva's options for changing things are limited by who he has on the bench. There must be a reason why McCarthy is being left out and Schneiderlin and Baningime are in.

Coleman has been poor but he gets no help from Walcott. We are starting to see why Wenger pushed him out. Lennon would have improved that team today and he might get the last laugh on us if we don't buck up.

Pickford is a concern if the other players lose confidence in him. I wonder how they deal with his cockiness? That might have been part of the problem today.

I am hopeful that Silva will work out but I have this picture in my mind of him standing on the touchline showing no emotion when Hull lost their last game in the Premier League and blew a good chance to stay up.

John Boon
109 Posted 24/12/2018 at 05:13:24
Systems, manager mistakes, lack of effort, poor players, playing a better team. Despite all the advice and criticism from our loyal fans, we are just venting and wasting typing time.

We were awful and NOBODY seems to know what to do. Whoever is in charge is likely to fail. Managing Everton has become a Jinx Job.

Dear God, please do something as we need miraculous help from someone above. I sincerely do not mean to offend anyone but we really do need a miracle worker. Who is he?

Laurie Hartley
110 Posted 24/12/2018 at 05:56:46
John # 109,

“Dear God please do something as we need miraculous help from someone above” — Amen.

Ian Lloyd
111 Posted 24/12/2018 at 06:00:58
Sam @91

Fair play – you could be right!
James Hill
112 Posted 24/12/2018 at 06:06:18
Too many Pep fodder Managers in the league now. We have one of the worst. Football today is like watching paint dry.
Peter Thistle
113 Posted 24/12/2018 at 07:04:51
One things for sure, we need a new defensive coach. They are all over the show, have been all season. Wing backs pushing up too far forward leaving massive space for other teams to pass the ball into. Centre-backs not being close enough to opposing players.

We are getting schooled in each game we play. I love attacking football but ya gotta start from a solid base, something we haven't had since Moyes and his dire approach. There has to be a mix of defending and attacking in their somewhere that Marco can hopefully find.

Finally, I've had enough of Pickford bigging it up about himself and how he takes mistakes on the chin and carries on, he needs to be more humble and stop believing the hype that he's actually a good goalkeeper.

If Tim Howard had made the mistakes Pickford has made recently, we'd all be calling for his head. Another season and maybe we can be an "Okay" team but, beyond that, I don't see us ever closing the gap. We are Everton, We are shite...

Andy Meighan
114 Posted 24/12/2018 at 07:41:00
Am I missing something.here? I keep reading posts from some saying the football has improved under Silva. I've got news for you all: It hasn't. It's no different than what it was under the last two managers. No pattern, no shape, just aimless balls banged in to no-one in particular.

Hopelessly outclassed by on the day a very good Spurs side who we allowed to have the freedom of Goodison Park. Our midfield is shocking and even Gomes got dragged down by the dross around him. Davies is nowhere near good enough to be playing football at that level.

Sigurrdson, as my brother pointed out last night, has got a goal in him... but that's about it. Lacks pace, physicality and awareness of what's going on around him – and why does he always look like he's stretching for the ball?

Walcott is another one; take the goal away from him yesterday and what did he offer? Richarlison just seems to be going through the motions of late and all that early season promise has evaporated.

Coleman, I'm afraid to say, is finished and how sad is that after the service he has given us? As for the keeper... words fail me. That first goal you wouldn't see from a kids' team in the park. I actually had him down at fault for four of their goals. I said last season he was vastly overrated and got slaughtered for it.

The chickens have come home to roost now, haven't they? This manager, who I've praised, really has to start earning his corn now – and quick – otherwise, we are going to find ourselves in a relegation battle... and anyone who scoffs at that needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The away form is atrocious but the big worry is the home form has gone belly up now. Worrying!!!

Frank Sheppard
115 Posted 24/12/2018 at 07:51:36
I hope there is a reaction to our recent very poor run of results, and the team starts showing some backbone.

I regret to say I would prefer a young Moyes in the dugout right now. Silva could be the man for what we need, but I am beginning to wonder more and more now if he has what it takes.

Marc Hints
116 Posted 24/12/2018 at 08:03:16
I think Panic Stations are to soon after yesterday. Yes, it was an awful performance and some of the so-called senior players are not leading the team, players like Coleman.

There are still some players there that have been like this the last two or three seasons and need to go. Coleman, Schneiderlin, Walcott, and Tosun need to be sold and replaced, fringe players still there, Niasse, Tom Davies need to be replaced. It is these average players that we keep watching week-in & week-out hoping that we produce a good performance and they don't as they are not quality players.

If Everton want to break the top six and be ambitious, then someone at the club has to admit that these players are not good enough and make a decision, stop the sentimental rubbish by keeping them, just like Marco said about Jagielka, he is important and our captain but not even playing, get him off the books!

Unless this happens and we actually buy players who are quality and have ambition then we should all just expect performances, results like the last few weeks because that's all we are going to get with the same players as above.

I can't believe we are going to start on Marco Silva when this has happened with the last three managers; so, to me, it is certain players who are not good enough and don't care. I for one will judge Marco once he has had a January and the Summer transfer window. Still a lot of work to do including still getting rid of the loanees: Mirallas, Bolasie, Sandro, Williams, Martina, Besic...

People on here before said we are about two or three players from being a decent team, we are not, we are about 6 or 7 players from being a decent team let's be realistic. Look at across the road: Klopp has bought every year, building a team for 3 years and getting rid of what he thought were not good enough.

We are unfortunately 3 years behind and in a mess of all messes within the recruitment department. It won't happen in January and also the summer to fix this but we have to build on what I thought was a good start to the recruitment last summer.

I do have faith in Marcel Brands and Marco to get things right but this is going to take a lot of time so we must all take a step back for now and expect poor performances and results we hate because that is all we are going to get with the crop of certain players we still have at the club.

Jim Bennings
117 Posted 24/12/2018 at 08:15:46
Since the start of 2017-18, our results against the top six reads in this order:

Man City (A) 1-1 D
Chelsea (A) 0-2 L
Spurs (H) 0-3 L
Man Utd (A) 0-4 L
Arsenal (H) 2-5 L
Liverpool (A) 1-1 D
Chelsea (H) 0-0 D
Man Utd (H) 0-2 L
Spurs (A) 0-4 L
Arsenal (A) 1-5 L
Man City (H) 1-3 L
Liverpool (H) 0-0 D

2018/19:

Arsenal (A) 0-2 L
Man Utd (A) 1-2 L
Chelsea (A) 0-0 D
Liverpool (A) 0-1 L
Man City (A) 1-3 L
Spurs (H) 2-6 L

Three years on from Moshiri coming to this club, that is a totally appalling return from those matches and it tells me now that we are a million miles away from challenging for 6th.

We are further away from the top 6 now than when Moyes and even Martinez were here.


How can Moshiri be pleased with that after the money he's pumped into this club since January 2016???

Kevin Prytherch
118 Posted 24/12/2018 at 08:32:15
Gareth @107. You have to love throw away statistics like yours.

Almost every time we get rogered these days, Tom Davies is on the pitch.

I'd say we've been rogered twice this season: yesterday and against West Ham. Tom was a sub against West Ham.

A couple of the rogerings he missed last season were against Spurs and Southampton.

It's accepted that Gomes struggled at Barcelona due to a lack of confidence and not believing in himself anymore. This was largely down to the crowd, he went into his shell. Why do we think that slating every young player that comes through will do any different?

We managed to turn Barkley into a crab-like passer in a couple of abuse-laden seasons and we will do the same with every young player who comes through.

We have a potential star in Davies who virtually any team would take off us; yet, rather than encourage him, we slate him. This obviously affects his performances and gives an excuse to slate him more.

Young players on the outside of Everton must think they'd get an opportunity here, they do from the team, they don't from the fans.

Fans like your should be ashamed of yourself, you've done it with Barkley, Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu; you'll do it now with Davies, Calvert Lewin, Lookman, Kenny and Holgate.

Phil Lewis
119 Posted 24/12/2018 at 08:46:18
Pickford, for all his World Cup heroics, has never convinced me from the start. He is becoming a liability in the Bruce Grobbelaar sense of the word.

He is not alone, however. Several of our so-called 'Stars', flatter to deceive. The same it would seem, applies to the manager. Whilst I applaud his sense of footballing adventure, he has an awful lot to learn in terms of tactical organisation.

This is not some 'knee-jerk reaction' to our abysmal drubbing, by a highly organised and talented Spurs team, moreover it is a considered observation of the team's performances so far this season. Flashes of brilliance, followed by inconsistencies and schoolboy errors. Fans are blinded by the hype.

Everton remind me of Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale 'The Emporer's New Clothes'. Where the Emporer parades naked around the city and all the people are brainwashed into believing that his new clothes are wonderful. That is, until one small boy innocently and honestly observes that the Emporer has no clothes on at all.
Horrifying, but true.

Jim Bennings
120 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:03:30
Phil

None of our so-called big players ever turn up for the big games. The last player that wore his heart on his sleeve and bled Everton was Tim Cahill, and he was in good company with Lee Carsley, Alan Stubbs, Leon Osman... they hurt when Everton lost.

In truth, I haven't been truly proud of an Everton side since Joe Royle was here and we had 11 big leaders of men on the pitch.

In Pickford's case, I agree. He needs to sort his head out and start focusing more on the game and what's happening around him.

Any goalkeeper can save a penalty, that doesn't define a great keeper, nor does saving shots that are fired right at you (Howard, World Cup 2014).

Hell, Richard Wright probably made the greatest penalty save I've witnessed at Sunderland in 2002 when he first came here.

What makes a keep great is about making good decisions, control of the situation around you, how many mistakes you make and can you learn quickly from them.

Jordan needs to go and clear his head because, several times this season, he's made decisions that are just hard to explain.

Derek Taylor
121 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:09:27
This had been coming for weeks. Anybody who looked at this manager's comic record at Hull and Watford would have known he was Martinez Mk 2 – plays a pretty game but tactically inept. Pochettino was just waiting for his turn to come around and murdered him.

So no need for surprise, just the long weary and painful wait for he and his entourage to be replaced with another bunch of clowns as we get nearer and nearer to the bottom echelons.

For all the money Moshiri is said to have put in, he is a true Lerner in football terms and, just like the Villa man who blew over £300M in goodwill, manager after manager pissed it away on big signings with very limited talent.

As an Evertonian, I feel for the guy but, as they say, a fool and his money etc!

John G Davies
122 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:14:46
We sorely missed the tackling machine. We are not the same team without him.
David Thomas
124 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:33:42
Kevin @118,

Do you honestly believe any of the top 6 or 7 clubs would be rushing to takes Davies off us if he became available?

Geoffrey Williams
125 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:47:09
We'll it is plain to see that Tom Davies is to blame for yesterday's thrashing by Spurs. As we all know, he selected the team and chose the tactics. It was Tom who encouraged Pickford to clatter into Zouma.

Of course, he is responsible for the way Walcott and Richarlison continually give away possession to the opposition and for the fact that Sigurdsson cannot win a tackle.

For goodness sake... give the kid a break!

David Thomas
126 Posted 24/12/2018 at 09:54:41
Geoffrey,

No one is saying the reason we got beaten is simply down to Davies. There were many poor performances – everyone can see that.

My opinion, though, is that Davies is just not Premier League quality. I would never question his commitment or effort but he just hasn't got the quality required, in my opinion.

However, if he hadn't've played yesterday, I think the result would've been similar anyway because, as you pointed out, others made howlers as well.

Rennie Smith
127 Posted 24/12/2018 at 10:05:26
People just need to calm the fuck down, I can't believe the idiots calling for Silva to go, what do you want old Hippo Head back?

We were beaten by a very good Spurs front 4, who would have taken any Premier League team in that form. The finishes for all their goals were top draw, even Kane's "tap-in" wasn't as easy as it looked.

Yes, we made some mistakes that let them take those finishes and yes we pressed high to allow space on the flanks, but if he'd sat back and parked the bus, the same people on this site would be whinging about not taking the game to Spurs at home.

Get some reality people.

I read one of the comments on the match forum late last night asking "Why are people still in the ground?" in the later stages of the game. Those people are called 'supporters', mate (and I was one of them).

Tom Hughes
128 Posted 24/12/2018 at 10:08:36
I know another Portuguese fella who's looking for a job.
Anthony A Hughes
129 Posted 24/12/2018 at 10:28:57
I'm not having a go at Davies, I hope he does well at Everton... but can somebody tell me what exactly his attributes are apart from being hard-working?

I see a midfielder with no pace, no heading ability, rarely shoots, rarely assists with goals... and his passing seems limited.

Eddie Dunn
130 Posted 24/12/2018 at 10:33:51
Geoffrey — well said. Tom Davies is not the finished article and may eventually have to settle for a career at a lower level but he was not to blame for the shitshow yesterday.

Time and again Richarlison lost possession and did nothing to regain it. Theo also coughed-up easy ball putting our under-staffed midfield on the back foot. Defence starts at the front and the manager had loaded the team ridiculously in favour of trying to aggressively get down the flanks, leaving our soft underbelly exposed.

Crazy to try to protect the defence with just Tom Davies and Gomes when the Spur's diamond could morph into any shape they wanted. Add to this the seeming inability to pass the ball accurately and the difference between us and them was clear.

Not changing the shape after Kane had already got through twice was daft, and to persist into the second half was insane. We lost our best passer to injury, which didn't help but, of course, the biggest factor in the defeat was Pickford.

He looked good in a Sunderland side that was peppered with shots. Ditto Everton. He makes good athletic diving saves but fails to command his area, lacks height to take crosses, is vulnerable to anything near the top corners, and has poor judgement.

Zouma was in control of the situation when he raced out. He was also beaten (granted with Coleman obstructing his view on two occasions) for the free kick and the Eriksen volley.

Unfortunately he wants to be the centre of attention and he is trying to be proactive instead of reactive, which I was always told, as a keeper, you should not try to make the attacker's decision for him, as you often sell yourself in the process.

I don't know who the goalkeeping coach is at Everton, but perhaps we need another one. I seriously hope Pickford irons out these brain-farts but I fear the lad is (as his recent rave video suggests) a bit lacking in the brain dept.

The next game will be very interesting. Turf Moor is not a place for faint hearts.

George Cumiskey
131 Posted 24/12/2018 at 10:33:51
Rennie, I think you need a reality check, we've just been beaten 6-2 at home by another Premier League team.

Or did you see something there that bodes well for the future???

Brian Patrick
132 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:11:28
Kevin, we conceded 6 goals at home to Spurs. It could have been more they had dozens of other chances.

I said previously we need to give Silva this and next season at least. But something is wrong at Everton; I think Vlasic hinted at it in an interview in Croatia, he kind of said the training fitness and discipline is very poor at Everton they can eat any foods chips and burgers etc and they go home early.

Contrast that with Dortmund. They go home at 7pm but are strong and super fit. It's not Tom Davies but all of them who lack character as well. Roy Keane said it about the likes of Pogba; the modern footballer needs huge discipline and you won't get that at Everton's academy.

Michael Lynch
133 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:24:44
We have one fewer point after 18 games under Silva this season than after the same number of games last season under Koeman, Unsworth and Allardyce. We've only played one of the top sides at home so far – and they hit six past us.

I'm not panicking, but I am getting close to it.

Jim Bennings
134 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:36:08
Anyone who thinks because we have the top sides still to come to Goodison it will be a different story.

Get real, we will be lucky to get two draws from the visits of City, United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea.

Colin Malone
135 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:39:25
Let's hope Gana is fit for the Burnley game. If not, Morgan Schneiderlin has to play.

No Gomes, then it's Bernard as our playmaker, with Lookman on the left wing.

Brian Patrick
136 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:42:40
Jim, I said to my son "We might get three points out of these 4 games over Christmas." I predicted we would lose to Spurs and now I think I am optimistic in forecasting 3 draws against mediocre opposition. Burnley are a strong hard-working unit... Oh dear, maybe 2 points.
Ian Lloyd
137 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:44:34
Comments saying let's not panic etc.

I go to the games and I don't know what games people are watching when they're saying lay off Silva, the players etc, we are dire. I cannot see any improvement on previous managers to be honest.

Silva's tactics are non-existent, 90% of the players are a disgrace.

We have spent millions and look at us?!? Moshiri is throwing money at it left right and centre and we're just mediocre at best.

I don't want to hear about this transition rubbish – all teams go through transition but at least they play decent football along the way win or lose.

What I see at Everton (and for a good few years) is no pattern, no game plan and no end result.

I agree that this Tom Davies blame thing has to stop; however, I also have to say that he would not get into another top 10 side. He has no defining attributes and is too lightweight.

Brian Patrick
138 Posted 24/12/2018 at 11:56:13
I have to agree with Ian; it is alarming at the moment but we can't keep changing managers. I would jettison the likes of Big Dunc and get a goalkeeping and defensive coach in.

Also, they need a rugby fitness coach... I mean Sigurdsson, Richarlison, and Davies look knackered and it's only Christmas?!

Matthew Williams
139 Posted 24/12/2018 at 12:30:34
Who hired Silva, then? Therein lies the problem, folks>

As for young Tom, he – along with Calvert-Lewin and Holgate – should've been loaned out at the start of the season. And what's happened to young Baningime then?

We need to look at a new system in the new year, a 4-3-2-1 system with balance and a touch of flair to bring out the talent some of our lads have been stifled of, imo.

Maybe...

Pickford
Kenny Keane Mina Digne
Bernard Gana Gomes
Lookman Dowell
Tosun

Mark Taylor
140 Posted 24/12/2018 at 12:55:00
You can't blame Davies for yesterday's debacle, there were plenty of others having stinkers but while I would love to believe we have a world class midfielder in the making who just needs a bit of patience, that is not at all what I see on the pitch. Bluntly put, he looks out of his depth.

Barkley may have driven us to distraction and the manner of his exit from the club did him no favours in my eyes, but he did have a spark about him which Davies simply does not. Even he has not kicked on though.

Davies will quite probably do a decent job hustling around in the Championship and in so doing, earn more money in his lifetime than almost anyone on here, so that is hardly failure. But at Premier League level, he is a bang average squad player, if that.

Joe Bibb
141 Posted 24/12/2018 at 12:55:46
This is how far we have slipped behind other teams not only on the pitch but also off it. Spurs are considered a Big Club yet the last time they won the League was 1961. We had Black & White Tellies, no microwaves, no videos or DVDs we hadn't even put a Man On The Moon, not many Spurs fans remember a League Championship.

Everton, on the other hand, have won the League many times since then but our supposedly Media Chairman ex-owner allows us to be brushed aside by the Media just like our so-called stars on the pitch.

Evertonians need to watch the so-called poor teams like Fulham, Huddersfield, Cardiff etc and ask why is it that those teams have players who attack, shoot from all angles, their defenders tackle and fight for every ball, while Everton's players pass the ball around sideways and backwards, don't tackle, don't take shots from outside the box etc.

We are fed fake news like Davies is an upcoming star, Pickford is World Class. Against Spurs, on a wet horrible day, there were players that left the pitch and their kit didn't need to be washed. This team wouldn't beat Everton Under-19s team.

But, despite all this, Silva will still play a weakened team against Lincoln City in the FA Cup, throwing away once again the chance of winning a trophy and we the fans will still turn up with our blinkers on.

The only way EFC will listen to us, the fans, is when the players run out to a near-empty stadium.


Ian Lloyd
142 Posted 24/12/2018 at 13:07:00
Joe @ 141 – I agree completely.

Jim Bennings
143 Posted 24/12/2018 at 13:15:16
Silva will play a weakened team against Lincoln; nevertheless, we will beat them but it is still hard to get excited about winning the FA Cup knowing this team would have no chance against a top 6 team.

As I said after the draw for the third round was made, do we really want to reach a Quarter-Final or Semi-Final and suffer again at the hands of the Redshite or get a routine twatting at Wembley by a “Big Boy”?

Marcus Taylor
144 Posted 24/12/2018 at 13:25:51
Jim, we haven't won an FA Cup game since March 2016! Getting past the Third Round would be an achievement of sorts, let alone a Quarter-Final or Semi-Final!
Kevin Prytherch
145 Posted 24/12/2018 at 13:48:15
Brian – 132. Are we taking what Keane says as gospel these days?

Kenny, Calvert-Lewin, Kenny Dowell and Lookman were part of a squad that won the World Cup at their age, ahead of Germany and Dortmund's academy.

The same group won the Toulon tournament (I think it was the Toulon Tournament) this summer, again ahead of Germany.

Simply dismissing all academy players in England is an insult, especially since we were undone yesterday by Kane and Alli at times who have come from academies in England.

However, all players feel insults, especially when younger. Hounding younger players for everything they do is not going to make them better. It will make them go into their shell. Even seasoned pros will feel it; however, you'd hope they are better equipped to deal with it. Some, such as Gomes at Barcelona, aren't always best equipped to deal with it.

Like other posters have said, there were 10 other players on the pitch, some of them have been playing for over 10 years. Point to them first and get behind the youngsters.

Brian Patrick
146 Posted 24/12/2018 at 14:25:19
Kevin, I wasn't dismissing the younger players. I was saying to a friend yesterday I would rather have 11 scousers in the team than the bunch of mercenaries we now have, even if we were in League 1.

I'm saying that the academy players are being badly coached: how is it possible, in a football-mad city like Liverpool, we can't produce more than Kenny and Davies?

Nowhere have I slagged off any of the younger players but there's something wrong at Everton. But it's ok... we have Big Dunc on the bench.

Soren Moyer
147 Posted 24/12/2018 at 14:36:36
Pickford is a disaster waiting to happen. Coleman, Walcott, Davies, Sigurdsson and Keane are not good enough.
John G Davies
148 Posted 24/12/2018 at 15:03:13
How many of them did Silva buy, Soren?
Rennie Smith
149 Posted 24/12/2018 at 16:04:08
George 131 – I'm not saying everything bodes well for the future I'm saying a manager who has been in charge of 21 games and. beaten, far too easily, by a magnificent attacking display, cannot be judged fairly until he's been given time to build and implement his own ideas and regime.

Far too many people on here are from the Premier League generation, instant success with whatever hand you've been dealt with or your just plain shite. It doesn't work like that.

People calling Pickford an idiot yet who are singing "England's No 1" a few weeks ago. The lad is 24 years old and he's still learning.

I can remember Big Nev making his debut in 1981 when he was 23, he made plenty of mistakes in the early years, but because they weren't amplified by the Sky kopites he was allowed to get on and grow as a keeper.

It's the same with Davies, get on his back and he'll say "Fuck this, I don't need this" – just like Barkley.

Mark Taylor
150 Posted 24/12/2018 at 16:18:20
Kevin 145,

You would find it revealing to take a look at age group teams across the years, not just for England. Of course there are a few who make it, but the vast majority do not. Take a look at the 2013 U20 World Cup squad that included Stones, Kane and Dier, the only ones who play regularly for a top 6 side – maybe you could make a case for Barkley also. But most of the remaining 17 are plying their trade in the lower leagues.

So I would put it another way. Building expectations of players who have played age group football is unwise because there is a strong probability of them not being good enough. It is futile getting behind players who are not good enough and almost cruel to imagine that, if we just start cheering them, they will become what they are not.

Better off to sort the wheat from the chaff, regardless of age. My view, based on a lot more than yesterday, is that Davies is in the chaff category, though of course that is open to debate. I then think it's kinder to let him play at the level right for him, which very probably will still mean he will make a good living, rather than being booed for what he cannot be.

Brian Patrick
151 Posted 24/12/2018 at 16:35:46
Silva needs time as I said but he needs the right people around him. It's too soon to judge Brands but the deadwood needs to be cleared and we certainly need to spend on players because there's no Rooneys coming through.

I'm not a pessimist but, unless Usmanov jumps on board, I think the only mandate is Kenwright's Premier League survival: that means we just coast along on the gravy train... but how many fans will jump ship?

Brian Patrick
152 Posted 24/12/2018 at 16:38:54
I just noted this on another thread and I agree:

Dave #188, you're right; none of us could defend that abject performance yesterday. I keep on saying this but there are people employed by Everton on high salaries who won't care a jot about this result. So long as the team finishes 7th or 8th, they'll be happy to pick up their place-based bonus at the end of the season and have no bothersome European games to organise.

The club is an amateur mess. Every club above us is run more professionally. The tough questions are not asked at Everton because nobody has a clue how to integrate the business of playing into a business that pays with results.

Happy Christmas, Dave, Tony, John Mc, and all TW'ers!

Soren Moyer
153 Posted 24/12/2018 at 17:33:54
John # 148, Exactly.
Jim Marray
155 Posted 24/12/2018 at 18:05:37
The problems that materialised against Spurs yesterday have been there all season. West Ham, Huddersfield, Man Utd, etc. Static players, no vision, and best of all, a defence that looks all at sea when pressed by the opposition or against a player who can run at them.

I did not want Silva, a manager appointed based on style but no substance. But he is there and he deserves a chance... although, if Everton FC was a professional club, the board would be putting in place some succession management, looking at managers who are actually delivering with a team and actually challenging for something. Silva may not have bought these players but, to be honest, as a manager, he should be capable of getting them to play like a team.

If this club has any ambition, it will provide Silva with some support and bring in a couple of new coaches. I don't know who Silva brought with him but, from my perspective, we need some people who can coach some of our first team players in the basics: passing, defending, crossing, decision making, shooting, etc, because, at the moment, these are key areas where our team just doesn't have the capability required of team that wants to challenge the top six.

Jay Harris
156 Posted 24/12/2018 at 18:32:44
Compare Levy to Kenwright. That's the difference,

Spurs were on the up before Pochettino arrived.

Levy is a ruthless, determined man. Nothing can be said about Boys Pen Bill – except Why is he still at the club?

Kieran Kinsella
157 Posted 24/12/2018 at 18:35:58
Rennie Smith 132,

The problem is that no-one has a crystal ball. The old "give him time" argument is obviously backed up by what happened with Kendall in '84 when many wanted him gone. But, on the contrary, we gave time to Martinez, Harvey, Bingham, Lee, etc and all we did was delay the inevitable.

I honestly think Silva is a charlatan. His record is only good because of one year at Olympiakos when he won the league but they won it before he was there and after. So how much he was responsible for that is debatable.

Andy Meighan
158 Posted 24/12/2018 at 22:15:01
Isn't it funny how certain players find it so easy to score against us? Kane is the new Ferdinand, Wright, Rush ... [fill in the blanks yourselves].

Any player who hasn't scored for a while and is short on confidence must say to themselves "I'll look at the fixtures to see when we're playing Everton." What a benevolent fund we are!

From where I was sitting yesterday, when Kane got the ball, I could almost see him licking his lips in anticipation. Why don't we do a number on these players instead of just standing off them and letting them create havoc?

Christmas Eve and I've just had a lovely meal and a few drinks but all that keeps coming back to me is seeing Spurs players swarming all over our penalty area. Why do I let this sorry excuse for a club cloud my thoughts when I should be enjoying myself with my family?

The wife has just said to me "You're miles away... you're not still thinking about that stupid team, are you?" Sad, isn't it?

Mark Andersson
159 Posted 24/12/2018 at 03:51:52
Happy Christmas
Its 32 degrees here in Perth Australia...

Im sure the millioner footballers are warm and cozy for Christmas day...

John Boon
160 Posted 25/12/2018 at 05:01:48
Statistics,Where we went wrong, Who should play where and when, Who should manage. As a totally confused,long time fanatical Blue who does his best to follow all the posts on TW I can only add advice. Forget about the Spurs game. Put it out of your head for your own sanity. Hope that the last six games are one huge forgettable blip.

Realise that you are an Everton supporter and can handle any adversity, because you have to be very strong and probably insane as well as masochistic to remain a true Blue. I fully intend to enjoy Christmas without thinking about " OUR" team I will probably last until 12.01 on Boxing Day when my frail Everton mind will click back in to "Game Day" mode and I will remain in a manic state until we face the mighty Burnley. Such are the ups and downs of supporting the "Toffees". But I will still always be Blue. I really don't have another option.

Brian Murray
161 Posted 25/12/2018 at 07:00:28
A proper ruthless and professional coach would've dropped Pickford after that totally unforgivable and unacceptable mistake in the derby. Instead, he gets cheered and clapped like Seamus. Joke of a club from top to bottom still.
John Boswell
162 Posted 25/12/2018 at 08:50:35
This season will go downhill very quickly if we don't progress in the FA Cup.
Those posters calling for a clear out of the dross, both players and coaches are not being realistic.

Why would they come to Everton? Money alone is what we can offer and the best players and coaches can get more money and higher profile games at the clubs plying their trade in the Champions League.

We must improve the balance between games won and games not won. A good run in the FA Cup will help, winning the cup would be brilliant, esp if we are also winning more games in the Premier League AND getting improved results against the top 6. Best of all beat our neighbours!

Nothing breeds success like success. Look at our mood going to Anfield, all based on a good run of success against what we like to think of as teams we should beat. Repeat that, starting tomorrow against Burnley, and rebuild the optimism, confidence and joy will follow. Baby steps, small targets obtain and keep momentum all are required if we are to have successful transfer windows.

Improve the profile of the club as seen by professional footballers. And we will obtain a better quality of player, which will help to improve the quality of performances which will further raise the profile of the club, which will raise the quality of recruits . and repeat.

This method is slow, as in it will take a season or two and look at Manchester City please, it was rapid but not overnight success.

I wish all ToffeeWebbers joy and good health, COYB.

Benjamin Dyke
163 Posted 25/12/2018 at 08:55:44
Honestly, I'd take Howe as our next manager and I'm beginning to want that sooner rather than later. His team gets found out here and there due to inferior players and lack of money but not so much from a tactical or organisational perspective, in my opinion.

Of course, we should give Silva the whole season unless we look like getting relegated but there's not been too much to cheer. To be doing worse than we did under Sam in many matches and to have 1 less point than Koeman got sacked for and to concede 6 at home for only the 3rd time ever in the Premier League, this Silva has lived up to the worst fears so far. Concedes far too many goals, starts okay then fades. He's following a pattern and it was not just lack of money or his head getting turned...

Derek Knox
164 Posted 25/12/2018 at 10:18:22
Bemjamin, that is sad, but unfortunately very true, I, like yourself advocated for Eddie Howe and have done for some time, but have been shouted down as not being ambitious enough.

Getting things in perspective, I think Eddie Howe would have been, and could still be, a great fit, and with money (unfortunately blown now) one can only imagine where we would be now.

Anyway, it is merely conjecture, on what may have been, but I think we have to stick with Marco Silva for the time being at any rate.

Just like to take this opportunity to wish all TW'ers a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year, and also to give a resounding thankyou to Michael and Lyndon for all the work they contribute in making TW the best online Supporters Forum. A pity the Management didn't mirror that with our Club and players!

Chris Leyland
165 Posted 25/12/2018 at 10:40:50
It wasn't so long ago that Sílva and Brands were being lauded on these pages for their astute transfer dealings and for bringing a new sense of optimism and feel-good factor back to the club. Now, 5 winless games later, everything is doom and gloom and people are calling for a new manager yet again.

Constantly changing the manager isn't working and won't work: We are now on the fifth one in 2½ years and very little has changed as a result. Martinez had us in 11th place and we are now in 11th place.

A new manager will want a new group of players and that means the last fella's players become surplus to requirements and so the cycle of pouring good money after bad just carries on.

The sad fact is that we got a billionaire owner 2 or 3 years too late. We've bought a shed-load of players for over £20m but a few years ago, we would have been able to get top quality for what we are paying; now a £25m man is akin to an average £3m player of a few years back.

Joe O'Brien
166 Posted 25/12/2018 at 11:33:59
I started supporting Everton just at the tail end of the first era of Howard Kendall. (I was only 10 at the time in case people thought I jumped on the wagon).

Anyway, for those who were around at the time that people were calling for his head, before he turned it around to have our most successful period, can people come back with an honest answer and say did they want Howard gone or not? From what I'm hearing from the past, the majority wanted a change.

I'm not saying Silva will be our Kendall, but I for one do not want him gone. We cannot keep on changing managers like we have been. If Silva wins the next two league matches, it all changes again.

It was a shocker against Spurs, Gueye was a massive loss. Silva made a big error in trying to go toe-to-toe with by far a better team but without his strongest team.

I think he will learn from this. He's in the job for only 2 mins. We need to give him time. Have people forgotten already the way we played at Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City and that other shower? We more than matched them all.

George Cumiskey
167 Posted 25/12/2018 at 11:46:59
Everyone keeps saying he's only been in the job for 5 minutes, but we're half-way through the season and there's been no apparent signs of a great improvement on the last managers.

Okay, give him this transfer window and at least till the end of the season; don't forget the old saying: "The Premier League waits for no man."

Colin Malone
168 Posted 25/12/2018 at 11:58:16
What top-six team have a Plan B?

What bottom-six side have a Plan B?

So maybe Silva should stick to his philosophy with better players.

Joe O'Brien
169 Posted 25/12/2018 at 11:59:34
George@167, really? I don't know about you but, on those away matches that I've mentioned, I think we were only a striker away from taking points in all of those matches... maybe actually full points in the matches at Arsenal and Man Utd and Liverpool. I for one think that is a massive improvement.

Silva has had one window, he hasn't got a decent striker, even though I think Calvert-Lewin will become just that.
How long was Klippity given? Finished 8th the 1st season I think... how long was Fergie given? A fair amount from what I can remember... by winning nothing.

In terms of management, Silva has been only with us for 5 mins (imo, of course).

George Cumiskey
170 Posted 25/12/2018 at 12:24:37
So, Joe, you've seen a massive improvement?

Shaking my head in despair.

Joe O'Brien
171 Posted 25/12/2018 at 12:37:07
Can you actually remember when we played at those grounds last season? I'm not sure we actually got out of our own half! Comparing that to this season, when we should have been up 2- or 3-0 at Arsenal... but for a striker that we didn't have.

Again, we should have got points at Man Utd but for poor finishing and dodgy refereeing. We lost 4-0 there last season and it could have been more. Got a deserved point at Chelsea... lost 2-0 there last season again and it could have been more.

For me, being absolutely hammered in all those grounds in terms of chances against us and no efforts at all from us... to going to those grounds this season and being the exact opposite. I also am shaking my head if people cannot see the improvement.

Paul Hewitt
172 Posted 25/12/2018 at 12:42:42
So we get rid of Silva, and get a new manager in. He starts of well, and everyone is happy. But then we hit a bad patch lose the next 4. What then? Sack him?

Silva needs a minimum of two full seasons to get us anywhere near top 6.

Joe O'Brien
173 Posted 25/12/2018 at 12:56:56
Paul that's my thinking also... When we really played well this season, I was naturally happy... but I wasn't thinking we were about to break into the top 4 or top 6.

Also, when we didn't play well in the last 3 matches – 3 matches, that's all like –I'm not clamouring for him to get the sack.

Give the man some time, with a balanced opinion – not a match-to-match opinion.

Brent Stephens
174 Posted 25/12/2018 at 13:02:19
The away performances are definitely better this season. Travelling away has been much more enjoyable in the first half of Silva's first season.
Brian Patrick
175 Posted 25/12/2018 at 13:36:02
It's a ‘project' in modern parlance but we seem to have a lot of these. I don't remember such constant underwhelming performances as an Everton fan.

It's a bit similar to the Gordon Lee days but we were normally 2nd or 3rd and we had some marvellous players: Latchford, Thomas, Andy King... Like everything in England, it's just about soundbites: ‘right practice', ‘added value', ‘equality and diversity'. ,p.(How on earth could Everton in the Community do this – a massive Keynesian inflation?!? And what da fuck does 'diversity' mean?! Britain has diversity – there's nothing the ugly woman with a double-barreled name from Croxteth can do to extend this bullshit).

Everton is a football club – not an NGO. Get the football right, Mr Moshiri, or nobody will be going to the Bramley-Moore Dock.

Merry bloody Christmas... humbug... humbug!!

Ian Horan
177 Posted 25/12/2018 at 23:13:59
Interesting views on the Spurs game; yes, we got spanked. But you look back a mere 4 years when we and Spurs were best of the rest and see the Spurs squad compared to this season. This clearly shows the churn of players to get to where they are now:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Squad.

A similar journey: they sold Bale; we sold Lukaku.

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