Everton receive overwhelming public backing for Bramley-Moore Dock proposal

And they are planning a SECOND survey in a few months.

Just the small matter of remaining a Premier League club to keep Moshiri interested and driving and financing the project.

Let's hope that we are still in the Premier League in May 2019.

Just kidding!

Where have you been the last few months?! This could have been released at any time over the last few months and the reaction would have been the same. So maybe the timings are not related. After all, the alternative complaint is about why we hear nothing about the stadium, it's all gone quiet, etc.

All the 'PROVEN' figures too, regarding a '1bn boost', '15,000' jobs, and they must be nailed on! Because, she goes on to say that the 1.5m 'new visitors' 'to the city' are only an 'estimate'.

Main thing is though, there is going to be a 'community-led legacy at Goodison Park' You lucky people!!

Does anyone actually believe this psychobabble? Personally, I find it insulting! How many of us really believe this horseshit?

Once again, the timing is questionable is it not? And once again we have the familiar terminology.

I don't want to go all political here but, as Evertonians, we should ask ourselves the same questions as 'remainers'. Are we, and have we ever been, better off under during both tenures?

Just as importantly, do we really deserve to be treated like a bunch of 'numb-nuts' while the so-called 'big-wigs' PRETEND that everything is 'hunky-dory'?

I'm honestly not a "piss on the parade" type of person.

But the one thing I'd caution about is the pie-in-the-sky economic benefits.

£1B boost to the economy? 15,000 new jobs? 1.5M new visitors to the area?

We've had a plethora of new stadiums here in the USA over the last 20 years for professional sports franchises. The owners always promise simply outlandish economic benefits that never come to fruition.

Is there a positive economic impact? Sure. But some of these numbers tossed out by DBB seem really, really unattainable and comical to me.

I'd file it under "get real". I'm jaded as I've seen this dog and pony show before; heard all the owner promises and economic predictions.

If the Liverpool area sees even half of what DBB is predicting, I'll be surprised.

We should have time go down into the Championship and bounce all the way back to the Premier League for opening day!

We were clearly typing a post simultaneously!

You're message is a bit more brazen, but I'm with you on the economic predictions!

Certainly seems a bit "psychobabble" to me as well!

What study or metric was applied when coming up with the ٟB boost to the economy?!"

It will result in a $500,000 million dollar boost to my little beach town!

Says who? ME! So let's do this!

Crackers!

Do you remember Dirty Harry?

Enforcer: "Let's get down there and jerk them off!"

Spin spin spin, need I say anymore?

Get the team sorted out, you dickheads.

In all seriousness, I would be happier to see a vastly improving team.

But is it 'transformational' enough for me to baggsy a room in that mansion in Florida with yer?

After all, we do live in a 'global' economy and you will need a 'community-led legacy' in your own 'little beach town'.

Nice one Jamie, if you ever get over here, I will buy you a pint in our 'legacy-led community' in the Bramley-Moore pub, and we can cast a glance out of the window, over what might have been...

Like, 'toeing the party line'?

At least we now know where we stand eye-to-eye:

We both can make out the waft of bullshit when it presents its ugly self.

You're always welcome to the Sunshine State. And I will take you up on that offer of a pint. I never turn down a beer.

File under; I believe it when I see it... I was going to say when I see a spade in the ground, but I've seen plenty of stalled unfinished holes in the ground.

The timetable was always that the survey findings would be released in mid-February. They just have been. Nothing to do with the performance (or lack of it) on the field.

Kevin #9, I agree that 52,000 is too small but that question wasn't included on the survey... if it was, then I didn't spot it.

If you find the claims about economic development hard to believe, have a read through this and note the similarities which are quite remarkable in my opinion.

Melbourne Docklands Development

I have seen with my own eyes over the past 20 odd years the transformation of a similarly run down industrial area of Melbourne. One of the first structures built was the stadium.

Such was the economic power and clout of Liverpool City in the 1800s, Manchester spent a small fortune to build the Manchester Ship Canal. You can't get the Queen Mary up the ship canal but you can park it off Bramley-Moore Dock! :)

The stadium development is vital for the waterfront development but everything hinges on our Premier League status. That is why I want to see Marco Silva turn things around because my concern is that, if he has to appoint another manager, the stadium project will probably stall.

I am taking an optimistic view – I have a mental snapshot of Tony Abrahams waving his Everton Flag at George McKane over the river in Wallasey from his waterfront apartment balcony on matchday morning.

Up the Blues!!!!

Let's get behind this, even though people are still highly suspect, probably because the man who's hoodwinked fucking thousands is still a part of our great club.

The year is 2032 and we have just had our 1.5 millionth new visitor to Liverpool. They weren't interested in seeing the slightly delayed, only just opened bowl arena docklands mammoth sponsored structure or indeed any waterfront locations but what the hell – EFC have claimed another tourist.

Well done Everton but what happened to the ٟ billion boost to the economy? What do you mean "it's all gone in football agency fees"?!

A point that has, however, been overlooked is the real chance of a breakaway Euro Super League. If / when that happens – and let's face it, we shan't be invited – I can envisage a revamped two-tier Championship. I don't see us packing out 60,000 seats to see us play Aston Villa or Sheffield Wednesday.

Major Revamp Set For Historic “Dock Road”

I know this goes against the grain for all the naysayers and doom mongers on the forum, who love to piss on Everton's chips, but it is happening.

Bring it on — get rid of the greediest, most horrid teams and start again. Bye RS, bye Chelsea, bye Spurs, bye Arse, bye Utd, bye City.

I don't understand nor agree with all of the negativity that surrounds OUR project. Can we not get behind it and be positive?

A dystopian world 100 years from now, after a nuclear meltdown and global warming has all but destroyed the planet.

There on the Bramley-Moore Dock site lies a lonely shovel and a small hole in the ground... Work had started but, as usual with Everton, it was too little, too late.

And you're right... the likes of Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday are good sound clubs with good fan bases, I didn't mean to patronize them. I just think 52,000 will suffice... it doesn't please me to say that either. Anyway, at nearly 66, I hope to see a few games at Bramley-Moore Dock before I start watching from on high (hopefully).

Like all developers, they look to present the best economic benefits to improve the chances of getting planning permission.

And the harshest critics I can find? Yep, right here on TW. We criticise for claiming economic benefits.

Who needs enemies when...

Constructive criticism is obviously something we all welcome but, no matter what the club do – good, bad or indifferent – some people criticise just for the sake of it. Look, I have lived through 60-plus years of Everton's ups and downs but the current owners are trying to take the club forward in a positive but properly managed way as opposed to the slapdash scattergun approach of previous regimes.

As a footnote – I have not been overawed by the manager but 5 months is hardly enough time to turn years of dross around. Okay, rant over.

Fans? Ha!

Some of the designs will be included in the summer consultation.

This might be great stuff that's really happening, or it might be bullshit. Neither would surprise me (because, in the real world, big infrastructure regeneration projects do genuinely happen from time to time, and politicians and business leaders try to sell snake oil). I just don't know.

As such, I've learned to largely ignore talk like this (apart from not being able to resist reading and commenting about it on ToffeeWeb). I take the same approach to Brexit and HS2, but don't have to read about those on ToffeeWeb.

Anyway, I might be overly simplistic or just stupid or whatever, but at the end of the day I don't really give a shit. The only thing tangible to me is how we perform as a team on a football pitch, and that's all I'm interested in.

If we perform brilliantly as a football team, then a new stadium is a nice add-on, puts icing on the cake and all that, but its absence is not a disaster. In contrast, if we continue to struggle on the pitch, that's a disaster. It's as simple as that.

Five months isn't very long to completely turn things around, but don't you think there should be at least a glimmer of progress,,. which I'm sorry to say I haven't seen.

Fans, eh?

Wilf Cuff's take on a local paper's report on Dixie Dean's performance on his sebut at Arsenal still rings true today, methinks.

After an extensive consultation with fans and people living in the area, the reports back are very positive. So there seems little chance that there will be any objection when the planning application is presented to the City Council.

I see there is to be further consultations later in the year, and according to Lyndon, this consultation will be with fans to determine design and capacity. But the architect Dan Meiss came over last year to view the site and spoke to many fans. His idea was to build a stadium to have a capacity of 52,000, and gave sound economic detail why they had decided on this capacity.

Now I am sure that the board will have discussed with Meiss the amount of money they are prepared to spend, as he will need to know what budget he is working too. So maybe the further consultation is to not so much consult but to reaffirm that their intentions are to build a 52,000 seater stadium, which may in future be adapted to 60,000 which would incorporate a safe-standing area.

I think some people, rightly or wrongly, use TW as a place to vent generally. The negativity feels quite overwhelming sometimes, especially on the live forum. I wonder whether it's the same for all fansites? More or less, I imagine.

Isn't sport supposed to be fun?! Ha, should have seen me fuming after we lost our five-a-side game last night in the last minute from a deflected long shot!

Yeah like that's going to work for the all the perennial title chasers when they come to realise that only the Mega Rich (Barca, Real & Man Utd maybe) will compete for the ONE single trophy and the rest will suffer midtable mediocrity.

To me the Club is doing the BM work quietly and correctly – get the opposition to show their cards early is a wise move. I believe this will happen because it's a great opportunity for the regeneration of that part of the City so the naysayers will find it difficult to derail it.

We've had years of negativity and moaning on here, about Koeman, then Allardyce and now Silva.

Bramley-Moore Dock is a huge positive story, and even that's now being turned into a negative. Very sad.

I'm getting on in years so I want to see the new stadium. I'm confident that there is real intent to build it, I just want them to hurry up!

Is the site actually big enough, taking into account the need for access, walkways, etc etc.

Looks a bit cramped to me.

It just dumbs down the debate to petulantly say to prioritise the latter ahead of the former. Both need to progress simultaneously. It's not linear that you have to get one completed before starting the other.

Now of course, if and when the stadium does get built, we need to have a good team performing well to fill it.

But after previous new stadium projects, the club seems to be following a very prudent path of extensive public consulting to ensure the Bramley-Moore Dock project is approved when planning is submitted.

As for criticism of perceived 'moaners' on TW, I would guess they are disproportionate to the much larger numbers of Evertonians who never post on TW and so are not truly representative of a majority view how Blues view their club.

ToffeeWeb is more than just an Everton news website. I think for many it's free therapy and I'm very thankful for it.

Now what I can't stand is moaners moaning about the moaners who have nothing better to be moan about...

We blew what seemed like our only chance with the King's Dock because of escalating costs and short-term thinking. We are extremely lucky to have another chance to build a world-class stadium on the banks of the Mersey.

We need to all get behind this and make it work because the thought of us still being at Goodison Park in 10 years time after other clubs have shown ambition will be the death knell of our once great club.

I mean, if it's not getting built, then you wouldn't bother with the survey?!

Ahead of the game? ... Everton?

However, kicking off in August 2023, is very optimistic, considering there is just a portakabin, a stained mug and a half-eaten packet of digestive biscuits there at the moment.

Still no apology for the disgraceful results and performances by the jokers running the club into the ground though, they must think its acceptable and that's not on.

Not really sure this means a great deal and the fact that 94% are positive is neither here nor there until we are much further on and there is some realistic expectation that it could actually happen.

Do some not realise, the club have put it to the supporters and residents of the area? They could have just gone ahead without consulting the supporters.

They pointed out the reasoning for 52k with the possibility of rising to 62k if safe standing can be passed through.

Why the negativity? Damned if the club says nothing and damned when they do.

We may be struggling on the field at the moment, but this should not put a downer on our next steps towards a new stadium.

For the first time as a supporter, this looks
Like it will be happening and not another false dawn.

Also great for the regeneration of the docks, take a look at the Albert docks in the early eighties and surrounding area, unrecognisable now to how run down it was back then.

So, although great for us Evertonians with the new stadium, it is also a big thumbs up for regenerating the area as well.

Last but not least, Goodison Park is being saved as a heritage, how many other grounds can you name that have been moved and the old ground not built on by houses or supermarkets?

By all means, have a go at the club for poor transfers and the team not performing, but at least give credit to the club for trying to get the new stadium and Goodison Park sorted out.

We do need a new stadium sooner rather than later, so here's hoping this comes to fruition.

We are not going down this season, at least I don't think we are, we were 250/1 Monday but I see there must have been some money on at that price because we are now shortened to 175/1, gulp.

My one reservation about the proposed new stadium is we can't produce a team that is competitive with the very best teams in the Premier League now, never mind when this stadium puts the club's finances inevitably under extra pressure.

Hopefully we have a good young team to grow into our new residence. We all agree it's been a tough few months but let's be a "glass half-full" club. Get behind it! Look where Man City were not so long ago. Now they're beating Man Utd and Liverpool to titles every season. 🤣

I also hope we won't be saying:
Sigurdsson - keep him in the team cos he scores a couple - despite disappearing for 85 minutes a game.
Walcott - he's a trier
Tosun - he'll get 20 a season
Keane - leader
Bernard - he'll chip in with a few goals
Mina - £30 million well invested
Digne - he won't give away any stupid free kicks
Gomes / Gueye - there's a match for any midfield

But no, ignore all the seasoned pros on big contracts and instead focus on the youngsters trying to improve their game and being on a hiding to nothing.

Seriously - some people could turn a stray cat into an excuse to have a go at the youngsters - wait a minute .

Having been a "Blue" fanatic for Eons, I have witnessed the very bad and the very good but I do look for a silver lining. If the new ground opens in 2023 I will be 84 so I just hope I am still around to watch Everton, as 2022 League Champions, open their new ground.

Yes, I am positive I will be there. If not, I have two adult sons, John "Everton" and Andrew "Goodison", who are very capable of continuing to give loyal support..

ps: My wife refused to let me call our daughter "Gwladys".

I hate what has become of the Premier League with its mini Elite League of six, but realistically those ‘elite' teams are vital to our income. Premier League clubs are reliant on global TV rights and without them we would have a less attractive product (on a global scale).

In all honesty, I think a super league would be a disaster for the likes of Everton. Imagine the highlight of the season being a home game against Newcastle or Leicester? If you think the RS are unbearable now, imagine forever being in an inferior league. Competing with the top 6 is hard and I agree depressing for us blues at the moment but it's not impossible.

On the stadium, I can't wait for Bramley-Moore Dock. We need something positive to change our direction and fast. I fear for the future of Everton without it. If we don't move, Goodison Park in 10 short years from now will be a second-rate ground in the second tier of English football.

Bramley-Moore Dock will be built and, as per comments earlier in the thread re Melbourne Docklands (Laurie # 29), it will be an essential part of a complete revival of the North Liverpool area.

Living in Adelaide, I have been a regular visitor to Melbourne and so I have also witnessed at first hand what the stadium and its associated development has done for the area.

Phil #38, Thanks for the Link

Being 70, I am just hoping I am around and fit enough to travel and see the development in and around Bramley-Moore Dock.

Back on topic – we won't get relegated, and the new ground will be great (albeit probably several years late).

You make excellent points but I see the formation of a Euro League as being something beyond our control whatever we may think about it. The changes that are happening now and will happen in the next few years in football are huge.

We are all used to saying "Football is all about money now" but this is becoming much more the case. Have a look at the BBC website and the article about this.

My own very personal view, and I don't expect you to agree, is that I would be content to let the Sky clubs bugger off so long as they were totally divorced from the rest of football.

If / when it comes around and in time it is decided that, say, Liverpool v Man Utd should be played in Kuala Lumpur for the Asian market then, if you sup with the devil, use a long spoon. I would prefer a wet Wednesday night in February at Bramley-Moore Dock watching us play Leicester. But, that's me. Onward Evertonians!

We simply do not need a stadium that size.

However...
Spurs will be around 62000
Chelsea will be around 61000
Arsenal is over 60000
Liverpool will be over 60000
West Ham is currently 57000, but 9000 seats are unused, so could potentially be 66000.
Man City is 55000
Wolves are trying to get above 50000.
Newcastle is around 53000.

Question is - do we aspire to be like Wolves and Newcastle, or like Spurs, Chelse, Arsenal and Liverpool?

Do we want the 3rd or 4th biggest stadium, or the 9th or 10th biggest stadium???

Looking on-line, there's a lot of noise for development up and down the docks. This one got me, though, and just a 5 minute walk from Bramley-Moore Dock. Appears there will be plenty of development completed by the time our new place goes in:

The Irish millionaire who took a punt on the Tobacco Warehouse

Forgive me in advance but I am fed up to the back teeth of people spreading the illusion that Everton's plight is linked to fans' lack of aspiration. As if, somehow, all we need is high expectations and a broken pot to piss in and we will eventually become Champions.

Back in the day, Man City fans were well known as the most abject, downtrodden surly fuckers around. An outfit of multi-billionaires came along with consistent investment and, hey presto, they are now probably the best team in Europe. High standards from City fans, had diddly squat to do with it.

We as fans can have the high aspirations of wanting the best until the sky falls in but – if it isn't backed up with someone with the dongs and dollars – it ain't going to happen.

Of all the fans in the Premier League, it isn't the 'mediocrity accepting' Everton fans who sigh collectively "Isn't this tickety-boo!" every time 90 minutes of codswallop is served up. We all want better.

I wouldn't say it's the fans holding us back because ultimately, we have very little say. But I'd like to think if enough fans stressed their displeasure at a smaller stadium, then the powers that be might take some notice.

If we don't, they'll think that everyone is happy with 52,000 which may or not be the case.

Michael / Lyndon – poll? (I know it's been done before but that was before the 52,000 announcement.)

This is a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

On my regular journeys home I struggle to get a ticket. We add another 12,000 seats, which is approximately another 30% availability on what we have now. Then that struggle to get a ticket will not exist. It is a bit of a stretch to think there are 22,000 people out there just waiting to get a ticket.

If, and I mean IF we were playing well, then maybe I would agree. Right now forget it, we have too many detractors and we are pure dross at present. Until we start playing again then be happy we have 39,000 dedicated and devoted fans. they turn up week in & week out.

So put the horse back in front of the cart, let results drive the process for the demand for extra seating. Right now, I can envisage lots of empty seats if we go 62,000

I look at Laurie, who tells us about the transformation of Melbourne docks once a stadium kick-started all the regeneration, and think the same thing is going to happen to our own great city.

If I owned a lot of steel, then I'd want to be in-bed with Peel, and if I was Peel, I'd want to be in-bed with the man who owned all the steel, especially because this waterfront site is going to be very affluent and also very spectacular once it's all completed.

Spot on with all those comments, pal.

"I can't understand why we don't use Clarence Dock, far bigger space, already clear and closer to the city centre."

Dunno about you Paul, but I have zero knowledge of a development project on this scale. Nowt. Nada. Zilch.

But I would hazard a guess that choosing a site entails a wee bit more than popping down to your corner shop and deciding on whether to go with the Kit-Kat, Bounty, or Mars bar.

(Light enough for you, Joe @ 95..?).

James Flynn, that was a interesting thread, almost made me home sick.. but I will get back in time for the opening of the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium – gives me 5 to 10 years to save up...

I can see us building the new stadium then having to swap with the red shite coz we can't afford to be there... Only joking of course... then again, if that happened we could use the song "Football's Coming Home" as our theme song...

It's several years since Bramley-Moore Dock was first announced, and yet, we've only just established that 94% agree with the location? It's a good job it didn't turn out less agreeable. Surely this should've been tied up years ago, or certainly before any financial commitment was made.

Interestingly, an even greater number agree that Goodison Park should be redeveloped to provide a fitting legacy. Would it be slightly mischievous or just prudent to suggest that the ultimate legacy redevelopment might be the continued evolution of the world's first purpose built stadium on its historic site? An option noted mainly for it conspicuous absence from any discussion. Surely, that is the real "stage one" in any stadium relocation debate.

The fact is, this site was first prompted by the Commonwealth Games bid. The main driver being the potential major financial uplift from the games greatly reducing the club's contribution to construction costs. This was especially important as there didn't seem to be any significant enabling opportunity at this end of the Liverpool Waters scheme without the games. Ultimately the bid failed, and we're now told that construction costs could be as much as 𧺬m, with capacity limited to 52k seats (with the only prospect of increasing that by the introduction of safe-standing at improved ratios). Shouldn't we be seeing direct comparisons with all the options to give the consultation any real meaning? All-in-all, too many unknowns and a quite confused process to date, in my opinion.

Cracking through the comments I did see quite a few criticizing the "negativity" of posters - kicking off with two posters I've all day long for in Laurie Hartley and Dermot Byrne, followed by quite a few others it would seem, as I engaged in "speed reading" my way through.

Not sure if this (vital) distinction has been put forth, but for myself I need to be clear.

I'm not negative about a new stadium. I believe it's necessary, will benefit the Club greatly, and it has to be done to keep up with the Jones'.

What I have an issue with, is when DBB starts tossing out wild and unsubstantiated figures to underscore the positive economic impact the stadium will have on the area and community. £1B springs to mind. It's garbage. She's spewing garbage.

It smacks of elitism and arrogance. Puke out some outlandish positives to gain support because the proletariat will buy it.

If people choose to believe the construction of this stadium will have a £1B economic impact on Liverpool, I can't stop them from thinking it's true. But it won't. I've seen this gar-bage here in America countless times.

You need this stadium. The Club needs this stadium. It will revitalize the northern part of a rather dilapidated section of your city, and it is 100% positive and I'm 100% behind it.

Just don't buy the bullshit emanating from the fearless leaders.

£1B? Please. As you say, "yur 'avin a laugh!"

They will lie, misrepresent, over-promise, and do anything to sell this project. What's frustrating is all they need to do is be level with the folks they assume don't have a brain and be honest, and they'd have the support they need.

Just stop it with the inflated, unrealistic numbers DBB. I hope everyone stands up and calls bullshit, while supporting the stadium and economic venture 100%.

Paragragh 6 in a nutshell! Sad thing is DBB actually believes it.

If I had access to a front page, I could write that reducing beer prices by 50p would create 10,000 jobs in the brewing industry. And people accept this shit. There are scores of examples. I think some clever bugger once said something along the lines of "If you tell a lie, make sure it's a big 'un".

It's basically the seating plans and a bird's eye view of the ground and surrounding land with the roof a bowl shape.

Thank you for posting that. I never / rarely go to the GOT site.

I just cracked through that embedded PDF.

Looks pretty damn mint to me. That stadium, right on the water, will be gorgeous.

That's the main part of the project done and dusted. All that remains is to raise the 𧺬m needed. Fear not, our Keith Harris has it covered:

“You can have the most brilliant design in the world but you can't get away from the fact that you need the money to do it!” Harris said.

“In terms of institutions we have spoken to about funding and all of them viewing the project positively, I can say we have a significant level of comfort that the project is financeable.

“We've done a lot of work on how the deal will be financed and have actually firmed up the likely structure of the deal."

Those words were spoken last month, so we're not behind the clock. With that sort of insight on our side, and commitment from funders, who could doubt that the result is assured – bar the perennial naysayers?

To explain, I work for the United Nations (USA & UK Governments) as a Weapons of Mass Destruction Inspector, and to be honest I'm pretty pissed off at the moment.

Some fucker told us there were weapons of mass destruction out here in Iraq. And guess what? There isn't any. But it must be true because, 'they said so', right? So that's why we are still out here searching for the 'Holy Grail' when I wanna come home to find the 'weapons' on the Everton Board.

Like Jamie, (if people actually took the time to read a post properly) I took a 'negative', (note, not 'realistic') viewpoint, regarding the rhetoric. Not over whether the stadium would be built or not.

Although on that subject, we do have a number of facts that support the contention that our Chairman, (not Honorary Chairman, which would normally happen after any change in ownership) may have told us all a few 'porkies' during his time.

We also have the facts (despite one poster's assertion that this current regime is not operating a 'scattergun' approach - ha bloody ha!) that his successor (apart from having bigger pockets) has shown roughly the same acumen regarding football matters as his Honorary Chair, sorry, his Chairman.

One poster stated that the BMD project is definitely a goer. I am not doubting that. But, I don't need examples of Melbourne thrown up, regarding the potential for vast spaces created by defunct industries.

Former industrial British seafronts (with or without a stadium) that have been made all 'shiny' and brand-new are in abundance. Just take a look a couple of miles down the road.

I am also well aware of 'wealth-creation' on such sites, unfortunately it very rarely means wealth is created for the likes of our kids or Grandkids (just ask the dockers and the families from the 90's) but as I say, I was questioning the discourse (15,000 new jobs! All on minimum wage no doubt) not the probable regeneration.

After saying all that, regarding the posters I am responding to, Justin Doone put it better than anyone regarding the silliness and hypocrisy of the moaners moaning against the moaners.

But don't ever fucking dare question my loyalty and commitment to my club just because I happen to have a different opinion to you regarding a particular subject.

One poster stated that he actually wondered whether we were Evertonians because we were 'negative'. I would counter that with, you must never have been to Goodison on a match-day mate, cos the place is normally fuckin full of it!

And take a wild guess why

When in response to Jamie's post about his experience in the United States, I posted the link about what I had seen in similar circumstances here in Australia - Melbourne to be precise, I certainly wasn't “throwing up” anything at him, you, or anyone else.

I was doing exactly what Jamie had done - relating my personal experience.

I'll just treat this proposed ground move the way our board has treated the League Cup competition for donkey's years... with utter contempt, if yer don't mind.