Everton receive overwhelming public backing for Bramley-Moore Dock proposal

Tuesday, 12 February, 2019 117comments  |  Jump to last
Everton have released the results of the first part of their public consultation over plans to relocate their home ground to Liverpool's north docks.

The club canvassed local residents, businesses and supporters over the possibility of building a brand new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as well as potential uses for their current home at Goodison Park.

The survey found that 94 per cent of respondents agreed that the docks location was appropriate for the club's new ground, while 95 per cent agreed with the idea that Goodison should be re-developed to benefit the community once Everton leave.

There was similarly near-universal support for plans to hold other sporting, music or cultural events at Bramley-Moore Dock.

"These results are more than a vote of confidence in our plans," said CEO Denise Barrett-Baxendale.

"They show people recognise the transformational impact our stadium will have on North Liverpool and indeed the positive effect it will have on the wider city region.

"A new stadium will unlock a unique opportunity for our city region by delivering a £1bn boost to the economy, 15,000 jobs and an estimated 1.5m new visitors to the city as well as the regeneration of North Liverpool, including a community-led legacy at Goodison Park."

Everton plan further consultation with Blues fans this summer over more specific details like design and capacity, with a target of kicking off in the new stadium in 2023 still the stated goal.

 

Reader Comments (117)

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Jay Wood
[BRZ]

1 Posted 12/02/2019 at 17:18:44
They are certainly doing a good PR job and preparing the ground to curry favour when they finally submit the actual plans (2nd half of 2019).

And they are planning a SECOND survey in a few months.

Just the small matter of remaining a Premier League club to keep Moshiri interested and driving and financing the project.

Joe McMahon
2 Posted 12/02/2019 at 21:01:54
Seems to be moving in the right direction, and it's positive that there is no objection. Fingers crossed there will be a slick Everton team to play in it- surely there will be no deadwood left.
Bob Parrington
3 Posted 12/02/2019 at 21:44:27
Yes, Joe, let's hope we are still in the Premier League!!!!
Jimmy Hogan
4 Posted 12/02/2019 at 21:49:03
Giz a job!
Peter Mills
5 Posted 12/02/2019 at 21:58:29
Good. This is a helpful part of the wider planning process.
Paul Birmingham
6 Posted 12/02/2019 at 21:58:36
All points above, are valid and with EFC, as we know, very rarely is any matter straightforward.

Let's hope that we are still in the Premier League in May 2019.

Colin Glassar
7 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:03:23
Surprise, surprise. We get a stadium update just as the team goes into a tailspin. Will the next update be in May, just after we are relegated?

Just kidding!

George Cumiskey
8 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:08:00
Many a true word said in jest Colin.
Brent Stephens
9 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:13:14
"just as the team goes into a tailspin"?

Where have you been the last few months?! This could have been released at any time over the last few months and the reaction would have been the same. So maybe the timings are not related. After all, the alternative complaint is about why we hear nothing about the stadium, it's all gone quiet, etc.

Kevin Prytherch
10 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:20:48
Strange how they didn't release the part that said that 95% of respondents thought 52,000 was too small.
Tom McEwan
11 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:31:03
Bloody hell! You don't say? This must be the definitive reason why we are getting a new ground, cos the 'supporters' agree! Blimey, just take in the words, 'unique' 'transformational' etc, it surely must be so!

All the 'PROVEN' figures too, regarding a '1bn boost', '15,000' jobs, and they must be nailed on! Because, she goes on to say that the 1.5m 'new visitors' 'to the city' are only an 'estimate'.

Main thing is though, there is going to be a 'community-led legacy at Goodison Park' You lucky people!!

Does anyone actually believe this psychobabble? Personally, I find it insulting! How many of us really believe this horseshit?

Once again, the timing is questionable is it not? And once again we have the familiar terminology.

I don't want to go all political here but, as Evertonians, we should ask ourselves the same questions as 'remainers'. Are we, and have we ever been, better off under during both tenures?

Just as importantly, do we really deserve to be treated like a bunch of 'numb-nuts' while the so-called 'big-wigs' PRETEND that everything is 'hunky-dory'?

Jamie Crowley
12 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:35:14
Good news.

I'm honestly not a "piss on the parade" type of person.

But the one thing I'd caution about is the pie-in-the-sky economic benefits.

£1B boost to the economy? 15,000 new jobs? 1.5M new visitors to the area?

We've had a plethora of new stadiums here in the USA over the last 20 years for professional sports franchises. The owners always promise simply outlandish economic benefits that never come to fruition.

Is there a positive economic impact? Sure. But some of these numbers tossed out by DBB seem really, really unattainable and comical to me.

I'd file it under "get real". I'm jaded as I've seen this dog and pony show before; heard all the owner promises and economic predictions.

If the Liverpool area sees even half of what DBB is predicting, I'll be surprised.

Rob Marsh
13 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:37:49
Tom,

We should have time go down into the Championship and bounce all the way back to the Premier League for opening day!

Jamie Crowley
14 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:37:51
Tom @ 10,

We were clearly typing a post simultaneously!

You're message is a bit more brazen, but I'm with you on the economic predictions!

Certainly seems a bit "psychobabble" to me as well!

What study or metric was applied when coming up with the £1B boost to the economy?!"

Jamie Crowley
15 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:40:15
I want to build a new house in Florida. A mansion! And staff if with chefs, landscapers, butlers, maids, nannies, etc!

It will result in a $500,000 million dollar boost to my little beach town!

Says who? ME! So let's do this!

Crackers!

Rob Marsh
16 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:46:40
Jamie Crowley,

Do you remember Dirty Harry?

Enforcer: "Let's get down there and jerk them off!"

Spin spin spin, need I say anymore?

Jim Wilson
17 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:54:45
Not fucking interested.

Get the team sorted out, you dickheads.

Gordon Crawford
18 Posted 12/02/2019 at 22:56:32
It will be the best stadium in the Championship.

In all seriousness, I would be happier to see a vastly improving team.

Darren Murphy
19 Posted 12/02/2019 at 23:12:38
@16 Jim, well said man.
Tom McEwan
20 Posted 12/02/2019 at 23:24:03
Jamie, this is truly a 'unique' moment! I think its the first time we have ever agreed on anything mucker haha!

But is it 'transformational' enough for me to baggsy a room in that mansion in Florida with yer?

After all, we do live in a 'global' economy and you will need a 'community-led legacy' in your own 'little beach town'.

Nice one Jamie, if you ever get over here, I will buy you a pint in our 'legacy-led community' in the Bramley-Moore pub, and we can cast a glance out of the window, over what might have been...

Tom McEwan
21 Posted 12/02/2019 at 23:54:41
Incidentally, from my point of view, the word 'overwhelming' in the title of this thread, is another example of this type of behaviour. Unnecessary and not backed up by independent observation.

Like, 'toeing the party line'?

Jamie Crowley
22 Posted 12/02/2019 at 23:58:12
Tom unique indeed!

At least we now know where we stand eye-to-eye:

We both can make out the waft of bullshit when it presents its ugly self.

You're always welcome to the Sunshine State. And I will take you up on that offer of a pint. I never turn down a beer.

Sean Kelly
23 Posted 12/02/2019 at 23:59:08
I knew this would happen. After several shitty performances the new stadium bullshit story comes out. Season ticket anyone?
Derek Thomas
24 Posted 13/02/2019 at 00:29:54
I'd like to shoot down all the septic sceptics, but given the known previous form of the County Road Casuals management.

File under; I believe it when I see it... I was going to say when I see a spade in the ground, but I've seen plenty of stalled unfinished holes in the ground.

Jamie Crowley
25 Posted 13/02/2019 at 00:51:45
With both?? Jeezuz. WE BOTH
Mark Andersson
26 Posted 13/02/2019 at 01:09:36
Utter Bill shit.
Bill Watson
27 Posted 13/02/2019 at 01:39:53
Colin #6 and Tom #10

The timetable was always that the survey findings would be released in mid-February. They just have been. Nothing to do with the performance (or lack of it) on the field.

Kevin #9, I agree that 52,000 is too small but that question wasn't included on the survey... if it was, then I didn't spot it.

Kevin Prytherch
28 Posted 13/02/2019 at 06:29:56
Bill – it was that long ago since I filled out the survey, but I'm sure I voted for 61,878 or something around that. I might be thinking of a ToffeeWeb survey though!!
Laurie Hartley
29 Posted 13/02/2019 at 06:57:09
Jamie # 12 and various other posters, this development has huge potential for the City of Liverpool. This is not just about the stadium but the redevelopment of the whole waterfront.

If you find the claims about economic development hard to believe, have a read through this and note the similarities which are quite remarkable in my opinion.

Melbourne Docklands Development

I have seen with my own eyes over the past 20 odd years the transformation of a similarly run down industrial area of Melbourne. One of the first structures built was the stadium.

Such was the economic power and clout of Liverpool City in the 1800s, Manchester spent a small fortune to build the Manchester Ship Canal. You can't get the Queen Mary up the ship canal but you can park it off Bramley-Moore Dock! :)

The stadium development is vital for the waterfront development but everything hinges on our Premier League status. That is why I want to see Marco Silva turn things around because my concern is that, if he has to appoint another manager, the stadium project will probably stall.

I am taking an optimistic view – I have a mental snapshot of Tony Abrahams waving his Everton Flag at George McKane over the river in Wallasey from his waterfront apartment balcony on matchday morning.

Up the Blues!!!!

Danny Broderick
30 Posted 13/02/2019 at 07:01:48
Just what we need, more consultation about this in the summer! Let’s see some plans!
Kunal Desai
31 Posted 13/02/2019 at 07:49:03
Yeah yeah, enough of the talk and consultations, how about giving us a date of when that first spade is in the ground? As always with Everton too much talk, very little action.
Anthony A Hughes
32 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:22:57
No chance of any indentations into the ground yet. It's at least November before planning permission is applied for and you won't see any plans until, at the earliest, December 2019.
Tony Abrahams
33 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:33:05
The headline on the echo website says it all: “if they'd gone to Kirkby, they could have become another Wigan”.

Let's get behind this, even though people are still highly suspect, probably because the man who's hoodwinked fucking thousands is still a part of our great club.

Martin Nicholls
34 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:34:20
Bill #27 and Laurie #29 – well said. Maybe other posters on here should read and consider your posts before spouting uninformed and ill-thought-out comments.
Hugh Jenkins
35 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:36:23
From the photograph, and the piles of sand shown on the right hand side of the dock, building is imminent - LOL.
Justin Doone
36 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:41:17
Estimating benefits to the local economy is easy when there is never a time frame mentioned.

The year is 2032 and we have just had our 1.5 millionth new visitor to Liverpool. They weren't interested in seeing the slightly delayed, only just opened bowl arena docklands mammoth sponsored structure or indeed any waterfront locations but what the hell – EFC have claimed another tourist.

Well done Everton but what happened to the £1 billion boost to the economy? What do you mean "it's all gone in football agency fees"?!

Alan McGuffog
37 Posted 13/02/2019 at 08:53:56
Somebody mentioned the best stadium in the Championship. The question of a capacity of 52,000 has exercised many of us. In a perfect world (ie, EFC not being a steaming pile of ordure on and off the pitch) we would fill 60,000 seats with ease.

A point that has, however, been overlooked is the real chance of a breakaway Euro Super League. If / when that happens – and let's face it, we shan't be invited – I can envisage a revamped two-tier Championship. I don't see us packing out 60,000 seats to see us play Aston Villa or Sheffield Wednesday.

Phil Greenough
38 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:10:03
For all you guys who don't live in the UK, or haven't been to Liverpool, there's massive regeneration going on around The Dock Road, Iron Bridge area.

Major Revamp Set For Historic “Dock Road”

I know this goes against the grain for all the naysayers and doom mongers on the forum, who love to piss on Everton's chips, but it is happening.

Eddie Dunn
39 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:20:25
Alan, if they do break away (and I think it would be a bore fest if they did and the fans would soon get fed-up) then what is left of the Premier League and the upper Championship would make a fantastic "product". Sheffield Wednesday and Aston Villa are big clubs, well supported, and we would fill the ground.

Bring it on — get rid of the greediest, most horrid teams and start again. Bye RS, bye Chelsea, bye Spurs, bye Arse, bye Utd, bye City.

Paul Brierley
40 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:30:47
Phil Greenough @38 – well said, mate. Bramley-Moore Dock is a piece of the overall regeneration plans for that run-down area.

I don't understand nor agree with all of the negativity that surrounds OUR project. Can we not get behind it and be positive?

Dave Lynch
41 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:31:27
I can see it now.

A dystopian world 100 years from now, after a nuclear meltdown and global warming has all but destroyed the planet.

There on the Bramley-Moore Dock site lies a lonely shovel and a small hole in the ground... Work had started but, as usual with Everton, it was too little, too late.

Alan McGuffog
42 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:36:00
Eddie, you share my point of view. I would love to see the back of the Sky favourites personally. The Super League will become a bore fest for the true fans of those clubs.

And you're right... the likes of Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday are good sound clubs with good fan bases, I didn't mean to patronize them. I just think 52,000 will suffice... it doesn't please me to say that either. Anyway, at nearly 66, I hope to see a few games at Bramley-Moore Dock before I start watching from on high (hopefully).

Dermot Byrne
44 Posted 13/02/2019 at 09:58:57
So let's get this clear. Our club does its best to sell their plans for a new stadium in a brilliant location.

Like all developers, they look to present the best economic benefits to improve the chances of getting planning permission.

And the harshest critics I can find? Yep, right here on TW. We criticise for claiming economic benefits.

Who needs enemies when...

Andrew Myers
45 Posted 13/02/2019 at 10:04:30
It's not often I post on the site and this thread perfectly illustrates why. The negativity of the posts on every subject is mind-blowing. It is sometimes difficult to believe that subscribers are actually “supporters” of this great club.

Constructive criticism is obviously something we all welcome but, no matter what the club do – good, bad or indifferent – some people criticise just for the sake of it. Look, I have lived through 60-plus years of Everton's ups and downs but the current owners are trying to take the club forward in a positive but properly managed way as opposed to the slapdash scattergun approach of previous regimes.

As a footnote – I have not been overawed by the manager but 5 months is hardly enough time to turn years of dross around. Okay, rant over.

Dermot Byrne
47 Posted 13/02/2019 at 10:07:40
Exactly Andrew #45. The negativity is unbelievable. I think one posts something negative and the rest just follow like the lemmings they boldly claim not to be.

Fans? Ha!

Bill Watson
48 Posted 13/02/2019 at 10:23:04
Danny #30,

Some of the designs will be included in the summer consultation.

Stan Schofield
49 Posted 13/02/2019 at 10:25:58
My take is simple.

This might be great stuff that's really happening, or it might be bullshit. Neither would surprise me (because, in the real world, big infrastructure regeneration projects do genuinely happen from time to time, and politicians and business leaders try to sell snake oil). I just don't know.

As such, I've learned to largely ignore talk like this (apart from not being able to resist reading and commenting about it on ToffeeWeb). I take the same approach to Brexit and HS2, but don't have to read about those on ToffeeWeb.

Anyway, I might be overly simplistic or just stupid or whatever, but at the end of the day I don't really give a shit. The only thing tangible to me is how we perform as a team on a football pitch, and that's all I'm interested in.

If we perform brilliantly as a football team, then a new stadium is a nice add-on, puts icing on the cake and all that, but its absence is not a disaster. In contrast, if we continue to struggle on the pitch, that's a disaster. It's as simple as that.

George Cumiskey
50 Posted 13/02/2019 at 10:39:50
Dermot @ 47 and Andrew @ 45 exactly right how can these lemming like fans not have complete confidence in this management after all the great progress we can see with our own eyes?

Five months isn't very long to completely turn things around, but don't you think there should be at least a glimmer of progress,,. which I'm sorry to say I haven't seen.

Fans, eh?

Geoff Cadman
52 Posted 13/02/2019 at 11:07:57
He was described as a passenger. Which was not exactly kind, or constructive criticism of a boy of 18. I mention these facts because I feel spectators, and press critics, should take every consideration with players, and especially new players. Lest they spoil a career...

Wilf Cuff's take on a local paper's report on Dixie Dean's performance on his sebut at Arsenal still rings true today, methinks.

Brian Harrison
53 Posted 13/02/2019 at 11:28:42
I have no doubt that this stadium will be built, it just makes so much economic sense for the owner to build it. I have no idea if Moshiri is in it for the long haul or not, but he will know to recoup his expenditure he will need a new modern stadium to help sell the club to any prospective buyer.

After an extensive consultation with fans and people living in the area, the reports back are very positive. So there seems little chance that there will be any objection when the planning application is presented to the City Council.

I see there is to be further consultations later in the year, and according to Lyndon, this consultation will be with fans to determine design and capacity. But the architect Dan Meiss came over last year to view the site and spoke to many fans. His idea was to build a stadium to have a capacity of 52,000, and gave sound economic detail why they had decided on this capacity.

Now I am sure that the board will have discussed with Meiss the amount of money they are prepared to spend, as he will need to know what budget he is working too. So maybe the further consultation is to not so much consult but to reaffirm that their intentions are to build a 52,000 seater stadium, which may in future be adapted to 60,000 which would incorporate a safe-standing area.

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 13/02/2019 at 11:36:14
Well, I for one think this stadium will be built in the next four or five years. Those who are laughing at the idea are welcome and entitled to their view, but I would rather read posts from one Laurie Hartley than twenty of those who think this stadium will never be built, for the simple reason I believe it will be built.
Sam Hoare
55 Posted 13/02/2019 at 11:36:55
Andrew @45, well said.

I think some people, rightly or wrongly, use TW as a place to vent generally. The negativity feels quite overwhelming sometimes, especially on the live forum. I wonder whether it's the same for all fansites? More or less, I imagine.

Isn't sport supposed to be fun?! Ha, should have seen me fuming after we lost our five-a-side game last night in the last minute from a deflected long shot!

Liam Reilly
56 Posted 13/02/2019 at 11:43:58
A super-league won't survive a decade in the proposed form: one league – no relegation and one title at the end of the season.

Yeah like that's going to work for the all the perennial title chasers when they come to realise that only the Mega Rich (Barca, Real & Man Utd maybe) will compete for the ONE single trophy and the rest will suffer midtable mediocrity.

To me the Club is doing the BM work quietly and correctly – get the opposition to show their cards early is a wise move. I believe this will happen because it's a great opportunity for the regeneration of that part of the City so the naysayers will find it difficult to derail it.

Andy Walker
57 Posted 13/02/2019 at 12:13:01
Andrew #45, superbly put. Some positivity would work wonders, but sadly I think it's highly unlikely. Like you, I have mostly stopped commenting due to the extremist moaners that now seem to control the TW thread narratives.

We've had years of negativity and moaning on here, about Koeman, then Allardyce and now Silva.

Bramley-Moore Dock is a huge positive story, and even that's now being turned into a negative. Very sad.

Brent Stephens
58 Posted 13/02/2019 at 12:49:09
Moan if there are no announcements.
Moan if there are announcements.
Moan that announcements are made strategically as a distraction when we're dropping points.

(How do you avoid making announcements this season that don't coincide with dropping points?!) Still, if it serves a narrative – bash Bill, bash Moshiri, bash Everton, bash DBB, bash bash.
Ray Robinson
59 Posted 13/02/2019 at 13:14:14
Andy #45, superbly put. I stopped commenting on here a while ago for the same reason, plus the ridiculous point-scoring, condescending arguments that some individuals regularly indulge in. Shame really because ToffeeWeb is a wonderful site.

I'm getting on in years so I want to see the new stadium. I'm confident that there is real intent to build it, I just want them to hurry up!

Willliam Bruce
60 Posted 13/02/2019 at 13:25:42
One thing bugs me about this.

Is the site actually big enough, taking into account the need for access, walkways, etc etc.

Looks a bit cramped to me.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

61 Posted 13/02/2019 at 13:29:12
Planning for a new stadium and having a team performing well are not mutually exclusive. They are separate issues in their own right so can co-exist alongside each other.

It just dumbs down the debate to petulantly say to prioritise the latter ahead of the former. Both need to progress simultaneously. It's not linear that you have to get one completed before starting the other.

Now of course, if and when the stadium does get built, we need to have a good team performing well to fill it.

But after previous new stadium projects, the club seems to be following a very prudent path of extensive public consulting to ensure the Bramley-Moore Dock project is approved when planning is submitted.

As for criticism of perceived 'moaners' on TW, I would guess they are disproportionate to the much larger numbers of Evertonians who never post on TW and so are not truly representative of a majority view how Blues view their club.

Justin Doone
62 Posted 13/02/2019 at 13:30:57
It's good news which is always welcome but having a sense of humour I like reading some of the negative posts which I take as a joke or simply disagree with.

ToffeeWeb is more than just an Everton news website. I think for many it's free therapy and I'm very thankful for it.

Now what I can't stand is moaners moaning about the moaners who have nothing better to be moan about...

Craig Walker
63 Posted 13/02/2019 at 13:31:06
You won't find any negativity from me in relation to Bramley-Moore Dock. This is THE only positive thing going for our club at the minute, if you ask me. If we mess this up then we don't deserve to be at the top table of English football.

We blew what seemed like our only chance with the King's Dock because of escalating costs and short-term thinking. We are extremely lucky to have another chance to build a world-class stadium on the banks of the Mersey.

We need to all get behind this and make it work because the thought of us still being at Goodison Park in 10 years time after other clubs have shown ambition will be the death knell of our once great club.

Pete Edwards
64 Posted 13/02/2019 at 14:17:08
I guess we'll all have to put up with the naysayers until the whistle blows to kick off the first game at the new stadium on the docks!

Pete Edwards
65 Posted 13/02/2019 at 14:26:43
What would be interesting to know is, out of all the people on this thread and all the others regarding Bramley-Moore Dock who don't think the new stadium will be built actually completed the survey?

I mean, if it's not getting built, then you wouldn't bother with the survey?!

Jamie Evans
66 Posted 13/02/2019 at 15:01:18
I drove past Bramley-Moore Dock on my way to the Man City game last week. Some type of work to the Dock Road and the pedestrian pavement is already underway. Not sure if it is entirely related to our move there but it's directly outside the main entrance to the dock itself.

Ahead of the game? ... Everton?

Tony Everan
67 Posted 13/02/2019 at 15:02:41
It is great news and it should lead to a common purpose between the club and the public bodies to get take whole development to completion. The investment leads to a win-win for all. A once-in-a-generation opportunity.

However, kicking off in August 2023, is very optimistic, considering there is just a portakabin, a stained mug and a half-eaten packet of digestive biscuits there at the moment.

Paul Burns
68 Posted 13/02/2019 at 16:40:02
Typical. The timing of this announcement is meant to take minds off the parlous way the club is run, a much-used tactic by this regime.

Still no apology for the disgraceful results and performances by the jokers running the club into the ground though, they must think its acceptable and that's not on.

Andy Riley
69 Posted 13/02/2019 at 18:19:27
I seem to remember similar results and publicity for the Kings Dock and Destination Kirkby with the latter being described by our then Chief Executive as the ‘Deal of the Century.'

Not really sure this means a great deal and the fact that 94% are positive is neither here nor there until we are much further on and there is some realistic expectation that it could actually happen.

Martin Berry
70 Posted 13/02/2019 at 19:05:47
Get your buckets ready!
Brian Wilkinson
71 Posted 13/02/2019 at 19:28:16
As far as I can remember, we were going to be informed about the survey around February, with a further survey around July about the design of the ground.

Do some not realise, the club have put it to the supporters and residents of the area? They could have just gone ahead without consulting the supporters.

They pointed out the reasoning for 52k with the possibility of rising to 62k if safe standing can be passed through.

Why the negativity? Damned if the club says nothing and damned when they do.

We may be struggling on the field at the moment, but this should not put a downer on our next steps towards a new stadium.

For the first time as a supporter, this looks
Like it will be happening and not another false dawn.

Also great for the regeneration of the docks, take a look at the Albert docks in the early eighties and surrounding area, unrecognisable now to how run down it was back then.

So, although great for us Evertonians with the new stadium, it is also a big thumbs up for regenerating the area as well.

Last but not least, Goodison Park is being saved as a heritage, how many other grounds can you name that have been moved and the old ground not built on by houses or supermarkets?

By all means, have a go at the club for poor transfers and the team not performing, but at least give credit to the club for trying to get the new stadium and Goodison Park sorted out.

Billy Roberts
72 Posted 13/02/2019 at 19:42:39
I find all news regarding the new stadium uplifting, call me a mug all you like but in a season of on the pitch struggles another move towards the realisation of a new ground gets me excited like a 10 yr old, some fans "don't give a shit" about the new stadium plan apparently?? We all understand its the football that is what brings us here but fuckin hell this is the chance of not a generation but more like a chance of the century to really reshape the riverfront with us at the centre of it all.
Raymond Fox
73 Posted 13/02/2019 at 20:03:03
Justin 62, you took the words out of my mouth.

We do need a new stadium sooner rather than later, so here's hoping this comes to fruition.

We are not going down this season, at least I don't think we are, we were 250/1 Monday but I see there must have been some money on at that price because we are now shortened to 175/1, gulp.

My one reservation about the proposed new stadium is we can't produce a team that is competitive with the very best teams in the Premier League now, never mind when this stadium puts the club's finances inevitably under extra pressure.

Eoin O'Doyle
74 Posted 13/02/2019 at 20:27:28
I for one am really positive about the new stadium. If what has been proposed goes ahead we'll have one of the most iconic grounds in Europe, in the centre of an iconic City too!

Hopefully we have a good young team to grow into our new residence. We all agree it's been a tough few months but let's be a "glass half-full" club. Get behind it! Look where Man City were not so long ago. Now they're beating Man Utd and Liverpool to titles every season. 🤣

Nick White
75 Posted 13/02/2019 at 20:50:02
Craig Walker #63 – agree completely!
Joe McMahon
76 Posted 13/02/2019 at 20:53:46
Just as long when we do play at the new ground in ??? years time, people won't still be saying, "Well Calvert-Lewin is young, give him time, we are a team in transition, there is a striker instinct in him..."
Kevin Prytherch
77 Posted 13/02/2019 at 21:47:18
Yes Joe...
The new stadium announcement is the perfect opportunity to have a go at one of our youngsters.

I also hope we won’t be saying:
Sigurdsson - keep him in the team cos he scores a couple - despite disappearing for 85 minutes a game.
Walcott - he’s a trier
Tosun - he’ll get 20 a season
Keane - leader
Bernard - he’ll chip in with a few goals
Mina - £30 million well invested
Digne - he won’t give away any stupid free kicks
Gomes / Gueye - there’s a match for any midfield

But no, ignore all the seasoned pros on big contracts and instead focus on the youngsters trying to improve their game and being on a hiding to nothing.

Seriously - some people could turn a stray cat into an excuse to have a go at the youngsters - wait a minute .

John Boon
78 Posted 13/02/2019 at 22:01:10
Well said, Andrew @45. In a very difficult season, it is challenging to stay positive.

Having been a "Blue" fanatic for Eons, I have witnessed the very bad and the very good but I do look for a silver lining. If the new ground opens in 2023 I will be 84 so I just hope I am still around to watch Everton, as 2022 League Champions, open their new ground.

Yes, I am positive I will be there. If not, I have two adult sons, John "Everton" and Andrew "Goodison", who are very capable of continuing to give loyal support..

ps: My wife refused to let me call our daughter "Gwladys".

Anthony Murphy
79 Posted 13/02/2019 at 22:17:42
Eddie #39 & Alan #42.

I hate what has become of the Premier League with its mini Elite League of six, but realistically those ‘elite' teams are vital to our income. Premier League clubs are reliant on global TV rights and without them we would have a less attractive product (on a global scale).

In all honesty, I think a super league would be a disaster for the likes of Everton. Imagine the highlight of the season being a home game against Newcastle or Leicester? If you think the RS are unbearable now, imagine forever being in an inferior league. Competing with the top 6 is hard and I agree depressing for us blues at the moment but it's not impossible.

On the stadium, I can't wait for Bramley-Moore Dock. We need something positive to change our direction and fast. I fear for the future of Everton without it. If we don't move, Goodison Park in 10 short years from now will be a second-rate ground in the second tier of English football.

Bob Parrington
80 Posted 14/02/2019 at 07:48:29
Couldn't agree more Anthony #79 (& Eddie + Alan). A European Super League would be a mistake.

Bramley-Moore Dock will be built and, as per comments earlier in the thread re Melbourne Docklands (Laurie # 29), it will be an essential part of a complete revival of the North Liverpool area.

Living in Adelaide, I have been a regular visitor to Melbourne and so I have also witnessed at first hand what the stadium and its associated development has done for the area.

Phil #38, Thanks for the Link

Being 70, I am just hoping I am around and fit enough to travel and see the development in and around Bramley-Moore Dock.

Duncan McDine
81 Posted 14/02/2019 at 07:53:32
John Boon, your post gave me a laugh this morning! You have effectively given your sons no choice at all regarding who to support... a clever tactic. My wife refused to give our daughters the middle names “Dixie” (true) or “Amokachi” (not true).

Back on topic – we won't get relegated, and the new ground will be great (albeit probably several years late).

Alan McGuffog
82 Posted 14/02/2019 at 09:36:21
Bob and Anthony...

You make excellent points but I see the formation of a Euro League as being something beyond our control whatever we may think about it. The changes that are happening now and will happen in the next few years in football are huge.

We are all used to saying "Football is all about money now" but this is becoming much more the case. Have a look at the BBC website and the article about this.

My own very personal view, and I don't expect you to agree, is that I would be content to let the Sky clubs bugger off so long as they were totally divorced from the rest of football.

If / when it comes around and in time it is decided that, say, Liverpool v Man Utd should be played in Kuala Lumpur for the Asian market then, if you sup with the devil, use a long spoon. I would prefer a wet Wednesday night in February at Bramley-Moore Dock watching us play Leicester. But, that's me. Onward Evertonians!

Jim Harrison
83 Posted 14/02/2019 at 11:47:31
A 62,000 seating capacity stadium would be the 3rd biggest in the England after Wembley and Old Trafford.

We simply do not need a stadium that size.

Nicholas Ryan
84 Posted 14/02/2019 at 11:56:41
If the team keep playing the way they are, a 52,000 capacity is likely to be 51,000 too many!!
Kevin Prytherch
85 Posted 14/02/2019 at 12:21:47
A 62000 might be the 3rd biggest.

However...
Spurs will be around 62000
Chelsea will be around 61000
Arsenal is over 60000
Liverpool will be over 60000
West Ham is currently 57000, but 9000 seats are unused, so could potentially be 66000.
Man City is 55000
Wolves are trying to get above 50000.
Newcastle is around 53000.

Question is - do we aspire to be like Wolves and Newcastle, or like Spurs, Chelse, Arsenal and Liverpool?

Do we want the 3rd or 4th biggest stadium, or the 9th or 10th biggest stadium???

Bob Parrington
86 Posted 14/02/2019 at 12:32:52
Kevin, I think your question could be phrased, "Do we want to be a "settle for" or an "aspire to" club. I'm for the latter as in my experience "settle for" becomes mediocrity. I'm not convinced that this would suit most Evertonians!
James Flynn
87 Posted 14/02/2019 at 13:14:25
Reading about the development of that whole area, I'll guess the Moshiri just got in while the getting was good financially. Wonder what property values will be around 2015.

Looking on-line, there's a lot of noise for development up and down the docks. This one got me, though, and just a 5 minute walk from Bramley-Moore Dock. Appears there will be plenty of development completed by the time our new place goes in:

The Irish millionaire who took a punt on the Tobacco Warehouse

Dave Evans
88 Posted 14/02/2019 at 15:13:55
Bob Harrington @ 86

Forgive me in advance but I am fed up to the back teeth of people spreading the illusion that Everton's plight is linked to fans' lack of aspiration. As if, somehow, all we need is high expectations and a broken pot to piss in and we will eventually become Champions.

Back in the day, Man City fans were well known as the most abject, downtrodden surly fuckers around. An outfit of multi-billionaires came along with consistent investment and, hey presto, they are now probably the best team in Europe. High standards from City fans, had diddly squat to do with it.

We as fans can have the high aspirations of wanting the best until the sky falls in but – if it isn't backed up with someone with the dongs and dollars – it ain't going to happen.

Of all the fans in the Premier League, it isn't the 'mediocrity accepting' Everton fans who sigh collectively "Isn't this tickety-boo!" every time 90 minutes of codswallop is served up. We all want better.

Kevin Prytherch
89 Posted 14/02/2019 at 16:01:14
Dave, I'm with Bob I'm wanting to aspire to greater. If we settle for the 9th biggest stadium now, it could be the 15th biggest in 10-20 years, then we'll be having the same debates about whether the stadium is holding us back.

I wouldn't say it's the fans holding us back because ultimately, we have very little say. But I'd like to think if enough fans stressed their displeasure at a smaller stadium, then the powers that be might take some notice.

If we don't, they'll think that everyone is happy with 52,000 which may or not be the case.

Michael / Lyndon – poll? (I know it's been done before but that was before the 52,000 announcement.)

Brian Patrick
90 Posted 14/02/2019 at 16:07:07
Wheres the stadium, Bill...?
James Hughes
91 Posted 14/02/2019 at 16:46:54
It needs to be bigger! We can fill it! We need 62k not 52K seats

This is a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

On my regular journeys home I struggle to get a ticket. We add another 12,000 seats, which is approximately another 30% availability on what we have now. Then that struggle to get a ticket will not exist. It is a bit of a stretch to think there are 22,000 people out there just waiting to get a ticket.

If, and I mean IF we were playing well, then maybe I would agree. Right now forget it, we have too many detractors and we are pure dross at present. Until we start playing again then be happy we have 39,000 dedicated and devoted fans. they turn up week in & week out.

So put the horse back in front of the cart, let results drive the process for the demand for extra seating. Right now, I can envisage lots of empty seats if we go 62,000

Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 14/02/2019 at 18:21:43
James @87, that's why I think but also hope & pray that Usmanov sent Moshiri to Everton to get the ball rolling.

I look at Laurie, who tells us about the transformation of Melbourne docks once a stadium kick-started all the regeneration, and think the same thing is going to happen to our own great city.

If I owned a lot of steel, then I'd want to be in-bed with Peel, and if I was Peel, I'd want to be in-bed with the man who owned all the steel, especially because this waterfront site is going to be very affluent and also very spectacular once it's all completed.

Paul Burns
93 Posted 14/02/2019 at 18:57:59
I can't understand why we don't use Clarence Dock, far bigger space, already clear and closer to the city centre.
Martin Berry
94 Posted 14/02/2019 at 18:58:42
Brian #71,

Spot on with all those comments, pal.

Joe McMahon
95 Posted 14/02/2019 at 19:49:14
Kevin @77, for god's sake, man, lighten up. Paul @93, I agree also.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

96 Posted 14/02/2019 at 19:58:23
Paul @ 93.

"I can't understand why we don't use Clarence Dock, far bigger space, already clear and closer to the city centre."

Dunno about you Paul, but I have zero knowledge of a development project on this scale. Nowt. Nada. Zilch.

But I would hazard a guess that choosing a site entails a wee bit more than popping down to your corner shop and deciding on whether to go with the Kit-Kat, Bounty, or Mars bar.

(Light enough for you, Joe @ 95..?).

Mark Andersson
97 Posted 15/02/2019 at 01:46:08
Justin Doone... great post made me smile, I love TW moaners, they make some good points and some shit ones that also make me smile.

James Flynn, that was a interesting thread, almost made me home sick.. but I will get back in time for the opening of the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium – gives me 5 to 10 years to save up...

I can see us building the new stadium then having to swap with the red shite coz we can't afford to be there... Only joking of course... then again, if that happened we could use the song "Football's Coming Home" as our theme song...

T Hughes
98 Posted 15/02/2019 at 14:07:26
I'm not entirely sure that I get this whole consultation process beyond a box-ticking exercise, or indeed much else of the process to date if I am honest. What does this really mean at this point in the proceedings: "94% agree that the dock is a good location". Good in comparison to what? In terms of what? Transport? Cost?

It's several years since Bramley-Moore Dock was first announced, and yet, we've only just established that 94% agree with the location? It's a good job it didn't turn out less agreeable. Surely this should've been tied up years ago, or certainly before any financial commitment was made.

Interestingly, an even greater number agree that Goodison Park should be redeveloped to provide a fitting legacy. Would it be slightly mischievous or just prudent to suggest that the ultimate legacy redevelopment might be the continued evolution of the world's first purpose built stadium on its historic site? An option noted mainly for it conspicuous absence from any discussion. Surely, that is the real "stage one" in any stadium relocation debate.

The fact is, this site was first prompted by the Commonwealth Games bid. The main driver being the potential major financial uplift from the games greatly reducing the club's contribution to construction costs. This was especially important as there didn't seem to be any significant enabling opportunity at this end of the Liverpool Waters scheme without the games. Ultimately the bid failed, and we're now told that construction costs could be as much as £500m, with capacity limited to 52k seats (with the only prospect of increasing that by the introduction of safe-standing at improved ratios). Shouldn't we be seeing direct comparisons with all the options to give the consultation any real meaning? All-in-all, too many unknowns and a quite confused process to date, in my opinion.

Brian Patrick
99 Posted 15/02/2019 at 14:56:18
I would almost guarantee one thing; that Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale will fuck this up. They will continue to sell our best players and otherwise asset-strip what they can. But the PR is priceless.
Jamie Crowley
100 Posted 15/02/2019 at 15:00:15
Been off TW for the better part of the week. Work, ya know.

Cracking through the comments I did see quite a few criticizing the "negativity" of posters - kicking off with two posters I've all day long for in Laurie Hartley and Dermot Byrne, followed by quite a few others it would seem, as I engaged in "speed reading" my way through.

Not sure if this (vital) distinction has been put forth, but for myself I need to be clear.

I'm not negative about a new stadium. I believe it's necessary, will benefit the Club greatly, and it has to be done to keep up with the Jones'.

What I have an issue with, is when DBB starts tossing out wild and unsubstantiated figures to underscore the positive economic impact the stadium will have on the area and community. £1B springs to mind. It's garbage. She's spewing garbage.

It smacks of elitism and arrogance. Puke out some outlandish positives to gain support because the proletariat will buy it.

If people choose to believe the construction of this stadium will have a £1B economic impact on Liverpool, I can't stop them from thinking it's true. But it won't. I've seen this gar-bage here in America countless times.

You need this stadium. The Club needs this stadium. It will revitalize the northern part of a rather dilapidated section of your city, and it is 100% positive and I'm 100% behind it.

Just don't buy the bullshit emanating from the fearless leaders.

£1B? Please. As you say, "yur 'avin a laugh!"

They will lie, misrepresent, over-promise, and do anything to sell this project. What's frustrating is all they need to do is be level with the folks they assume don't have a brain and be honest, and they'd have the support they need.

Just stop it with the inflated, unrealistic numbers DBB. I hope everyone stands up and calls bullshit, while supporting the stadium and economic venture 100%.


Jeff Spiers
101 Posted 15/02/2019 at 15:25:48
James @100.

Paragragh 6 in a nutshell! Sad thing is DBB actually believes it.

Alan McGuffog
102 Posted 15/02/2019 at 15:35:07
Jamie... don't let it bother you. Dunno about the USA but it is the British way and no-one pays it any heed. When they started spouting about HS2 they said "businessmen" getting from London to Brum 20 minutes quicker would generate £x billion for the economy. Brexit will cost £x billion over 5 years. How can anyone know?

If I had access to a front page, I could write that reducing beer prices by 50p would create 10,000 jobs in the brewing industry. And people accept this shit. There are scores of examples. I think some clever bugger once said something along the lines of "If you tell a lie, make sure it's a big 'un".

John Malone
105 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:06:28
The Bramley-Moore Dock plans are being pinged around on WhatsApp – I'm not sure how to forward it onto here, otherwise I would.

It's basically the seating plans and a bird's eye view of the ground and surrounding land with the roof a bowl shape.

Tony Abrahams
106 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:33:50
I think the Daily Mirror website shows us the best pictures, John, but I'm not sure how steep that big safe standing area is going to be... if this is what the stadium is really going to look like that is?
Dave Abrahams
107 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:42:53
Alan (102) too true, for years the papers have been telling that there are millions of jobs in Jeopardy, and I’ve never even heard of the place.
Rob Halligan
108 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:47:06
If anyone wants to see what John (#105) is on about, go to the From Grand Old Team below, then go to Stadium Discussion and it's on page 3376!!
Rob Halligan
110 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:50:45
Jeez, on the From the Grand Old Team on the main page 😕😕😕
Jamie Crowley
111 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:35:19
Rob -

Thank you for posting that. I never / rarely go to the GOT site.

I just cracked through that embedded PDF.

Looks pretty damn mint to me. That stadium, right on the water, will be gorgeous.

Tony Hill
112 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:40:07
Yes, the negativity is quite incredible on here. Everyone (or nearly everyone), it is quite clear from rigorous polling, would like a beautiful new stadium to make things lovely and blue.

That's the main part of the project done and dusted. All that remains is to raise the £500m needed. Fear not, our Keith Harris has it covered:

“You can have the most brilliant design in the world but you can't get away from the fact that you need the money to do it!” Harris said.

“In terms of institutions we have spoken to about funding and all of them viewing the project positively, I can say we have a significant level of comfort that the project is financeable.

“We've done a lot of work on how the deal will be financed and have actually firmed up the likely structure of the deal."

Those words were spoken last month, so we're not behind the clock. With that sort of insight on our side, and commitment from funders, who could doubt that the result is assured – bar the perennial naysayers?

Brian Williams
113 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:43:08
Has anyone else seen, or been sent, the 40-page document concerning Bramley-Moore Dock?
Rob Halligan
114 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:45:26
That's the one on GOT, Brian. Funny how the headline on GOT on the main page of TW has suddenly been removed.
Brian Williams
115 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:51:14
Think the shit's gonna hit the fan over the document being "out there."
Rob Halligan
116 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:54:21
The echo are saying they are not the final plans, but surely they must be as close as you can get them?
Tony Hill
117 Posted 15/02/2019 at 23:06:15
God, the PR team at Everton/advising Everton is shameless. Same old offensive bullshit; taking the mickey out of proper, desperate, heart-feeling fans.
Brent Stephens
118 Posted 15/02/2019 at 23:18:29
Tony Hill
119 Posted 15/02/2019 at 23:27:04
Indeed, Brent.
Tom McEwan
122 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:33:43
Like Jamie @100, due to work commitments, I have been unable, until now, to respond to the 'naysayers of the naysayers'.

To explain, I work for the United Nations (USA & UK Governments) as a Weapons of Mass Destruction Inspector, and to be honest I'm pretty pissed off at the moment.

Some fucker told us there were weapons of mass destruction out here in Iraq. And guess what? There isn't any. But it must be true because, 'they said so', right? So that's why we are still out here searching for the 'Holy Grail' when I wanna come home to find the 'weapons' on the Everton Board.

Like Jamie, (if people actually took the time to read a post properly) I took a 'negative', (note, not 'realistic') viewpoint, regarding the rhetoric. Not over whether the stadium would be built or not.

Although on that subject, we do have a number of facts that support the contention that our Chairman, (not Honorary Chairman, which would normally happen after any change in ownership) may have told us all a few 'porkies' during his time.

We also have the facts (despite one poster's assertion that this current regime is not operating a 'scattergun' approach - ha bloody ha!) that his successor (apart from having bigger pockets) has shown roughly the same acumen regarding football matters as his Honorary Chair, sorry, his Chairman.

One poster stated that the BMD project is definitely a goer. I am not doubting that. But, I don't need examples of Melbourne thrown up, regarding the potential for vast spaces created by defunct industries.

Former industrial British seafronts (with or without a stadium) that have been made all 'shiny' and brand-new are in abundance. Just take a look a couple of miles down the road.

I am also well aware of 'wealth-creation' on such sites, unfortunately it very rarely means wealth is created for the likes of our kids or Grandkids (just ask the dockers and the families from the 90's) but as I say, I was questioning the discourse (15,000 new jobs! All on minimum wage no doubt) not the probable regeneration.

After saying all that, regarding the posters I am responding to, Justin Doone put it better than anyone regarding the silliness and hypocrisy of the moaners moaning against the moaners.

But don't ever fucking dare question my loyalty and commitment to my club just because I happen to have a different opinion to you regarding a particular subject.

One poster stated that he actually wondered whether we were Evertonians because we were 'negative'. I would counter that with, you must never have been to Goodison on a match-day mate, cos the place is normally fuckin full of it!

And take a wild guess why

Laurie Hartley
123 Posted 17/02/2019 at 01:10:16
Tony # 122 - I feel the need to clear the air here.

When in response to Jamie’s post about his experience in the United States, I posted the link about what I had seen in similar circumstances here in Australia - Melbourne to be precise, I certainly wasn’t “throwing up” anything at him, you, or anyone else.

I was doing exactly what Jamie had done - relating my personal experience.

Tom McEwan
124 Posted 17/02/2019 at 19:28:07
Larry @123, fair play to yer fella!
Matthew Williams
125 Posted 18/02/2019 at 11:22:26
Call me old-fashioned but I'd much rather prefer us Blues were playing at Wembley on Sunday.

I'll just treat this proposed ground move the way our board has treated the League Cup competition for donkey's years... with utter contempt, if yer don't mind.

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