Dead Man Walking

While a professionally, well-run club like Tottenham acted with speed and decisiveness in dispensing with the services of a manager who had just taken them to the Champions League final, Moshiri and his board of dithering amateurish followers leave us looking like a joke club, the laughing stock of the Premier League.

If we are in the bottom three by Christmas no-one will be surprised and if Silva is then sacked, what new manager will want to come in with the remit of avoiding relegation?

We are without doubt a club in crisis, being blindly led by the nose towards a yawning precipice, all because Moshiri doesn't want to admit he made a monumental blunder in head-hunting one of the worst managers in my memory after 60 years of supporting this once great club. I could cry when I see the state of my beloved Everton today, and the incomptents running it.

The speculation regarding future Managers is just heresay. Actual candidates for the job are non existence, bar a few with mercenary intentions.

Pouchettino is the only potential Manager available and He will be hopeful that his record will attract the interest of Clubs who are in the mix for trophies. Though no-one is appearing to be knocking down his door at the moment. I suspect he wanted out earlier, but takers where in surprisingly short supply.

So Everton could be going forward in the immediate future aimlessly, with Silva in a Unsworth type situation.

The overall Management of Everton is pretty hopeless.

Is this not simply how Everton have been managed for the last 30 years.

We simply don't have the people at the top of the club who can be decisive and make the correct calls at the correct time.

We all saw how Spurs did their business last week yet I doubt any of us expected Everton to do the job so professionally.

We seem to stumble from one bad decision to another and I can't see this cycle ever ending.

At least Gylfi has a game changing moment in him, Schneiderlin is not only a liability with his ineffectiveness in his "defined role" but his lack of impetus affects the team in transition.

At least with Sigurdson in the deeper role we would have some creativity in a match we are probably going to lose anyway. He would for sure be more involved than the no mans land he finds himself in recent matches, and this quarter back role will give him more space to play.

I would play Sigurdsson as deep seated MF with Iwobi as AMF.

Note I state AMF as this obsession with the (for us mythical) number 10 role is laughable.

So move to a 442, so midfield of Bernard (who brought the best out of Digne), Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Walcott and Richarlson & DCL up top.

Plus it might give us move defensive solidity with the two banks of 4 and importantly it would force Leicester defensively to actually have to turn up for work instead of the free pass we have been giving opposition defenses by playing one attacker.

We don't have the players to play 433, and 4231 or whatever it is we are purporting to play, has clearly failed.

If Silva sticks with his same format that clearly fails he deserves no sympathy if any if left for him as it is.

Back to basics, lets get a draw or snatch a win and get the hell out of Dodge.

As for the bigger picture, we have a Board unfit for purpose.

Hard to be optimistic. We need something or someone to come out of nowhere. And we need to buy a goal scorer in January.

Roberto was head scrathing but he did play wonderful football for most of a season. Then the reasons he got Wigan relegated become glaringly obvious.
Koeman never looked like he wanted to be here and why we chased him was a mystery.
Allardyce was and still is an insult to this club that claimed to be the soccer school of science.
Silva, well it has been said about him and even this happy clapper has had enough of him. Please get rid of him (The man will probably get a result on the 4th and will be forgotten.)

Whoever we get next wll be an indication of where we are headng. At the risk of sounding irrational or lacking in the grey matter, as some of the all knowing sages claim to be on here.
No way in a million years, for the love of all things Everton does TGT walk back in or the ex RS Rafa allowed in our dugout.

I appreciate Lyndon's point about getting someone in after consideration rather than knee jerk. However I think every day he stays is another disaster.

In a way had Silva been binned at the weekend it possibly could have focused the players and made them realise the implications of their cowardly performances.

I agree he is a dead man walking but I think he should have walked a while ago.

Difficult to know who to replace him with. The latest name is this guy from South America, the David Essex lookalike.
After being told by our resident experts that old guys are out of touch, that their time has come and gone, Mourinho included in that list by the way. I find it strange an old foreigner most of us haven't heard of, does he even speak English? it now being mentioned.

An interim appointment for me.

If that's true, and I'm not sure I agree, why would you play a spine of Mina, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Tosun?

It's equivalent of saying I favour warm holidays, and then going to Greenland in your speedos.

4-3-3 please:

Pickford
Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Iwobi Bernard
Kean DCL Richie

That was proof that he was not the man to take us forward.

For the board to have done nothing, and waited, basically, for us tonne in a relegation battle before acting, is a crime.

6/7 games ago, with our squad, finances and upcoming fixtures, a new manager could have arrived with the task of 'get us into the top 6:7' - now the task will be 'save us from relegation'

This will change dramatically the profile of manager we can attract.

And if the club still hasn't made contact with potential candidates, preferably one earmarked candidate, then they all deserve sacking.

That said - when we play the better teams he does still have a role to play. He is positionally disciplined (or lazy, depends on how you look at it) and doesn't veer much from the space in front of the defence. That space is where the likes of Maddison and Tielmans like to play. Although he might not do much, that extra body limits the space on offer. Also, when we play the better teams we revert to a 4-4-2 defensively (unless Iwobi plays wide, then it's a 4-3-2 + wherever Iwobi fancies playing) meaning that Schneiderlin is afforded plenty of cover in midfield. He also recycles the ball well.

I'll be going against the grain here, but I believe that Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin struggle against the poorer teams but play better against the better teams. Therefore the only changes I would make for the Leicester game are Coleman returning (experience and better defensively) and DCL returning (him and Sigurdsson do well in pressing the opposition).

Whomever they bring in is going to struggle until they can bring in:
- A goalkeeper who can kick to a team mate.
- A decent right-back
- Two decent centre-halves
- A decent holding-midfielder
- A decent striker who is actually schooled in the lost art of scoring goals
- A decent assistant coach
- A decent 1st team coach

That's a very long list but all of those things need checking off if this team is going to match it with anyone in the top half.

John Coffey himself would have a hard job resurecting this team. It makes me want to eff and blind like the governors wife.

Redemption is a long way off.

When Silva was under pressure in October after the Burnley loss not one person at the club came out and made a reassuring statement that he was staying in the job for the duration of his contract.

What kind of atmosphere is this for the manager to work in, regardless of if he's any good or not?

As it is now, we punish Silva by giving him two games in which we have no chance of winning and very little chance of even drawing.

I've said before that I don't blame the manager for this situation.

Yes he's out of his depth at Everton but he's not the one who brought himself here and he's also not the one who's keeping himself in the job.

This I'm afraid is yet again all down to poor management on the boards behalf, we have been here before with the boardroom at this club, it's the only place I look for blame and answers.

The same board that headhunted Marco Silva himself for almost a year prior to appointing him.

The same board that sat on its hands for more than a month and screwed with David Unsworth's head instead of sacking Koeman and having a instant replacement (Spurs Mourinho appointment springs to mind).

The same board that were bent over the barrel by Sam Allardyce giving him a longer contract than planned in a complete and utter panic move, then having to pay him off handsomely.

The same board that sat by and watched Koeman and Walsh steer a rudderless ship into the iceberg during summer 2017.

The same board that sold Romelu Lukaku, knowing that he was a large percentage of our goals for three seasons, and have still to this day failed to find an adequate replacement for him.

So can we honestly put our hand on our hearts and say that we expect this board to get the removal of Marco Silva and the replacement of him spot on?

Pickford, Coleman, Mina, Holgate, Keane and Digne, would be my back five, six even. I'm praying for Delph to be fit to partner Davies, with Richarlison and DCL, either side of them and I'd try Moise Kean up front.

If no Delph, I'd play Sigurdsson, and I might also be tempted to play Iwobi, as a false nine, instead of Kean, because he has played wide midfield before (but lacks desire in this position imo) and can therefore interchange with either Lewin or Richarlison.

Just be hard to beat, get players closer to each other, and find a system that might help the players, especially if Lyndon's title is true, because with nothing to lose, he might just gain a stay of execution if he can find a way to make better use of what he's got, instead of playing players he doesn't really rate, and sulking on the sidelines?

Silva was the only Candidate available when the last Manager was replaced and Brands had a meeting with him, one week before his own contract started, so employment interviews had been conducted by others, who may have given consideration to Brands
opinion. Others potential Managers where approached, but where not interested.

It's same problem this time, but no preparation contacts have been made, after the last time maybe it was not thought worthwhile to do so.

The dilemma is finding a suitable interested Candidate or hoping Silva can get his act together, now that Finch Farm is back from their International break Holiday.

In regard to Everton we are all guilty of the same thing, having expectations beyond actual reality.

Our situation is not comparable. We don't have an available, high class manager who is ready and keen to step in. We have David Moyes. Or Mark Hughes.

Picking a new manager (be it interim or permanent) is obviously a huge decision for any football club and doing one mid-season comes with many complications, especially with the fixture run we have coming.

I'd rather make a good decision than a quick one. This will be Brands' first time to actually choose a manager. Let's see how it goes.

The cost of removing the manager will take the bill for sacking the last 4 managers to over 25 million. The squad will be turned over again with a significant investment required which FFS rules will make difficult. Most importantly, the emerging short-list of Moyes, Howe or Arteta as managerial replacements is completely underwhelming.

If the board plan to launch a proper search now, it must be a carefully considered process as we cannot afford to make another mistake and waste 2-3 years. My personal view is that the board will need to act as Silva has not been thinking clearly all season and defeats by Leicester and Liverpool will bring it to a conclusion.

Coleman Holgate Mina Digne

Davies/Sigurdsson

Bernard

Richarlison Kean Gordon

As Lyndon says Silva is hanging by a thread, so if he's doomed anyway, why not go out fighting? I'd go for an attacking team and take the game to Leicester with a high press:

Pickford
Sidibe Mina Holgate Digne
Davies
Iwobi Sigurdsson
Richarlison Calvert-Lewin Bernard

Assuming Bernard is fit. I wouldn't play Delph unless he is 100%. If Bernard is not 100% Richarlison on the other side and use Walcott. I'd give Digne the armband over Sigurdsson, and Sigurdsson would need to show a reaction from last weekend and only gets in the side as it's him or Schneiderlin. I'd be demanding full throttle, maximum tempo football.

Sidibe has done nothing to warrant being dropped for the underperforming Seamus Coleman, a player that has not been right now for a good year, and Coleman brings nothing in the way of forward running.

I'd be inclined to go with

Sidibe
Mina
Holgate
Digne (must get his form sorted)
Davies
Sigurdsson (good for a goal)
Iwobi
Richarlison
Walcott
DCL

I'd bring Kean (Moise) on with at least half an hour left if (as expected) we are chasing the game.

Richarlison really needs to start playing more centrally than hugging the wing, he's useless out there and he's our most clinical finisher.

Definition (according to the Collins dictionary: informal

Any person in a doomed or untenable situation, especially one about to lose his or her job.

What's wrong with that Steven?

Moshiri must rue the day he took a gamble on a business he knew nothing about. He has made some very costly errors, chiefly leaving an incompetent Board in charge. Maybe Brands can save the day by finding a suitably qualified manager. But then he hasn't found a suitable striker or CB.

I don't particularly want Moyes back after the way he left us and his subsequent failures since but if he is hired it can't be on an interim basis. Plus his sides mostly lack any flair and our mostly negative.

Arteta would be an interesting choice but a huge gamble in that he's never been the main man before but you never know. Our three greatest managers were ex players so perhaps history could repeat itself.

Howe maybe is ready for the step in but I fear about his defensive organisation since his Bournemouth side tend to leak goals and his big money signings like Lerma and Ibe have been average to disappointing.

No to Hughes, god forbid and Rafa. Rafa is on 12 mill a year in China and hasn't been top class in a job since Napoli plus he called us a small club when he was with the Shite.

It's highly unlikely that Poch or Allegri will come in since they'll want gigs at top teams but there's no harm in pitching ourselves to them. There's no point in not trying.

Jesus is an interesting choice in that he has won lots in Portugal, Saudi Arabia and Brazil but has never managed in a top league. His sides do play good football and he himself is a bit Mental but maybe that's what we need. Every team is a reflection of their manager and his sides are high octane and attractive to watch.

My point is if Silva goes or not, we need stability. We are starting to dangerously look like Villa and the Barcodes where they have both been relegated in the last 10 years. That would ruin the new stadium prospects and our future.

The board need to grow a set of balls and start running Everton like a proper modern club. We live too much in the past which gets you nowhere.

He's not good enough and way out his depth.

But he's been massively let down by the recruitment side. Brands' signings this summer have been a disaster,coupled with siggurdson legs completely going. Richarlison has struggled for goals too.

You can't compare Everton to Spurs and do people really think spurs haven't been talking to Jose weeks before they signed him up.

Maybe Moise's actions were a trifle silly on his part, being fairly high profile, but it also goes to show how dangerous that Social Media Shit really is.

People post seemingly innocently, without realising the World and his wife are scrutinising every word. Getting back to Moise, I can understand his frustration, been bought for £29M (which is a lot for a teenager) and Silva rarely plays the lad. Another reason Silva has to go.

He must have some feline cat blood running through his veins how he escapes the reaper.

Lyndon's suggestion of a more 4-4-2 type of formation with DCL and Richie playing as a complementing pair is well worth a try. Some of us have been advoctiong this for many months to no avail. We just wait and hope and then get more of the same 4-2-3-1 and the same players in it, and the same results.

He has amazingly been given a lifeline. Win at Leicester and draw at Anfield [ or vice versa ] and he may get a reprieve.

Wasn't there a film ''Return of the Living Dead'' ?

There's no time to sack Silva and get a new manager in. If he's still here for Leicester, which now looks certain, then he will still be here for Chelsea. Of course, if things go drastically wrong, then we could sack him and give it to Unsworth for a couple of games.

There is a gap between Chelsea (Saturday) to Man Utd (the following Sunday) and if he's going to get the boot then this is the most logical time to do it. After that the games come thick and fast, with the next break being after New Year's Day, where we have 10 days without a PL game, but there will be an FA Cup game on Saturday 4th Jan.

For those of you across the spectrum of opinion saying that Moise Kean's reported liking of a Tweet of Everton fans singing 'You're getting sacked in the morning' is proof positive that:

1) He is a treacherous little shite
2) He is a spoilt brat
3) It is confirmation that Silva has lost the support of ALL the players
...etc...etc.

It may be NONE of those things.

There are a whole host of possible - and less malignant - reasons.

Celebrities, and that includes PL footballers, have their social media accounts managed by 3rd-party people. Faux pas and mistakes on what gets liked, shared, posted DO happen.

Even if the player himself liked the Tweet, that is not evidence of guilt. His English is not the best. He sees (possibly) a shaky video with poor audio of Evertonians singing and - without understanding the content - innovcently likes it.

Haven't we got more than enough to concern ourselves with rather than angsting over and leaping to extremely speculative conclusions on a 'like' on Twatternet?

The only thing I've got wrong this week was the teary Andre Gomes video. I was expecting our Chief Exec (Little Miss Dynamite) to announce another EiTC initiative - such as Unsie and his U23s on another sleep out.

What results are good enough for a reprieve ? 5 points plus from those games ?...a win at Anfield ?. a draw against Leicester and and a win at home to Chelsea ?

If we lose 2 then win at home against Chelsea then there maybe some feelgood juices flowing keeping him here longer.

The penny may drop with regards to personnel and formations and things could start to turn around . Moshiri is loathe to sack him mid season and is craving some stability , even if it is until the summer.

Is anyone surprised at the state of the club considering the way its run at the top?

I actually feel sorry for Marco Silva its not his fault he's not been sacked. The hierarchy are hanging him out to dry and its a disgrace. What must the players also be thinking?

In Martinez's 1st season we finished above Spurs in 5th. They were 6th. Poch was appointed at Spurs that summer and their finishing positions under him since were 5th-3rd-2nd-3rd-4th, compared to Everton's 11th-11th (both Martinez)-7th (Koeman)-8th (Dog's Dinner)-8th (Silva).

In those years they have become regularly CL qualifiers, climaxing in reaching the final last year. But because they have high ambitions AND a plan, it wasn't enough to save Poch's job in the wake of an exceedingly poor 2019 in the PL.

Together with the state-of-the-art stadium they are now housed in, all of that wasn't down to chance that last week they were in a position to attract such a high-profile manager as Jose Mourinho.

IMO then, it is perfectly justifiable to contrast two very similar clubs and where they were 5 years ago, to where they are now, and how they are conducting their business.

I know which model I prefer.

Poch - Probably won't come here without a kings ransom per year. Then probably still won't come.
Wenger and Benitez - Stop mentioning them. They are moving countries and taking up new lucrative jobs,
Moyes interim - Stand by for posters saying they don't support Everton anymore and dramatic ripping up of season tickets.
Arteta, Cahill combinations - Even if they are an available option, apparently they are considered too risky or a continuation of the culture of Kenwright's Everton old boys network.
Dyche, Wilder, Howe etc - Considered by many as not good enough. Not in line with high aspirations. Nil Satis Nisi Optimun and all that.
Ancelotti - see one of the above
Some, unheard of by many, achieving manager from the Dutch, European or South American leagues - Too much of a gamble. The premier league has eaten many a good manager from other leagues for breakfast.

My opinion is we get rid of Silva if he does not beat Leicester and the R.S.
Then, who ever of the above or other we decide upon, we set them a one or two season target. If they don't achieve it we get rid quickly and hire someone else. We keep doing this 'spinning of the wheel' until we get a manager who moves us forward.
A manager who proves he can coach, improve and motivate players. One who can give us the aggressive, quick and flexible football we as fans deserve to see.

its just a coin of phrase that has many applicable uses. It doesn't mean SIlva is actually walking the Green Mile after being fed his last supper and given his last rites.

There's more chance of me waking up on Mars tomorrow than us beating them anywhere, let alone Anfield. (Martin Atkinson is on VAR you know?).

I still stand by what I said, the board are hanging Silva out to dry by keeping him on for Sunday.

So we lose Sunday, another defeat everyone blames the gaffer so what happens next?

Keep him on for the expected loss at Anfield and then make ourselves look even more ridiculous by sacking him after two games we were unlikely to get anything from anyway?

Or sack him on Monday, 48 hours before the biggest game of our season so far and then cluelessly stick one of the coaches in charge for the derby ( I very much doubt we'd go back to Unsworth not would he be too quick in taking it) after what happened last time.

If our board were going to act then it had to be this week, the stay of execution is nothing more than that, execution for Marco Silva.

Can anyone imagine if we lose both these away games and Silva is still here at home to Chelsea next Saturday?

The atmosphere will be toxic.

Is that fair on the man really?

He came to the club, he tried, he's failed because for whatever reason he's not been up to it, been let down by players, let down by Brands and has not shown he can work in difficult circumstances.

They played lowly Ceara, a team in danger of relegation. It did not start well for the 'Mengo. Gabigol was absent due to suspension. They looked listless and less incisive than normal and went a goal down from a poorly defended goal on 27 minutes.

Jesus did a 'Silva-on-Moise' move, only earlier! He started our one-time target Renier Jesus, but on 37 minutes Jorge had seen enough and yanked him off and replaced him with another promising youngster, Vitinho.

JJ had been going ape-shit on the touchline. At one point, the ref came over to tell him to keep in his technical area because he was not just going out of it laterally, but encroaching on the pitch itself as the game was in play! JJ raised his hand in acknowledgment and shook the ref's hand.

He obviously got into the team at half-time because they were a team transformed 2nd half. Ceara had comfortably kept them at arm's length in the 1st half. In the second, they barely ever got beyond the centre circle of their own half.

Jesus basically went three at the back, one deeper sitting midfielder, two attacking midfielders and four up top. It was just wave after wave of attacks on the Ceara goal.

It took a while, but on 65 minutes Bruno Henrique finally equalised. He scored two more on 74 and 85 minutes to complete a hat-trick. That puts him on 21 goals for the league season, just one behind Gabigol's 22. Tasty numbers, right?

The kid Vitorinho added a fourth in injury time to further vindicate Jorge's pro-active changes.

After 9 games before Jorge Jesus arrived, Flamengo was 8 points adrift of the leaders with a modest:
P 9 W 5 D 2 L 2 F 15 A 9 Pts 17 record.

In the 26 games under Jesus it reads:
W 21 D 4 L 1 F 62 A 22 Pts 67 out of a possible 78.

They are 16 points clear of the 2nd and 3rd placed teams - an upswing of 24 points. Again, tasty numbers.

Jorge Jesus said pre-match he won't allow any cruising to the end of the season, that he wants to break all the records that are in their reach. The players repeated the same post-match, repeating was has became a Jorge Jesus catchphrase from this season: "Ate o fim." "Until the end." Basically, no surrender until the final whistle as demonstrated in the Libertadores final on Saturday.

The championship trophy was presented to them last night. And the sweetest sound to me was hearing the 70,000 crowd singing, in anticipation of the upcoming World Club Championship:

"O Liverpool pode esperar, sua hora vai chegar!"

"Liverpool you can wait - your hour is coming soon!"

Here's hoping on that front.

"Jay, but don't fall into the trap of Mourinho being appointed in 12 hours."

Do you believe me to be so naive, Steve?

You serve to reinforce the point I'm making. Spurs were not blinded by the considerable achievement of reaching the CL final. They noted the dreadful PL form in 2019 and the inability to win on the road, whereas up to January they had already registered ELEVEN away wins last season, only one since - the weekend game v WHU under Mourinho.

They recognized there was a problem. They decided on the kind of profile they wanted as a replacement manager and went LARGE. No thought of caretaker managers, or looking backward to previous incumbents, or lower league managers with potential, or recruiting in-house like us.

Of COURSE there were meetings and discussions well before the 12 hour window in which Poch was sacked and Mourinho appointed. All exceedingly slick and professional.

They showed how a professionally run and competent club deal with the inevitable that all clubs face.

It's not a description you can apply to Everton without bursting out laughing.

"I don't really need to explain further, do I?"

To be frank Steven, you haven't explained ANYTHING other than to take sly pops at Lyndon without engaging in the content or topics.

Each to their own, 'n all that.

Thanks for the match report. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Very well written. I expect a full one for the World Club Cup Final.

They both agreed there is only ever one winner in a slugfest with Levy, and it's never the other guy!

They still heavily sympathized with Poch because he had a point. In the last few transfer windows they have not moved on players they needed too and have barely recruited the players that were required to freshen up the squad. That's down to Levy.

That said, it is telling that the likes of Vertongen and Alderwereld are now both talking of staying under JM, possibly hinting that there was some sort of rift under Poch as some media outlets reported.

Back to Everton, I tried to watch the U21s v Fleetwood but couldn't find anything. It sounds as if you did and that sadly, Anthony Gordon wasn't at the races.

No need to expose the lad prematurely then, least of all in the current hiatus.

I'd also bring Coleman back in. He's a better player than Sidibe. Baines is also being wasted. I agree though, as we don't seem to have the kind of midfielder than can put his foot on the ball and create from the back then we have use the energy of our players instead to play on the front foot. The guide of Bernard has been missed. But it's age old conundrum of not knowing our best 11 or best formation. Obviously Silva thinks it's 4-2-3-1.

I'm thinking however that he will play 4-1-4-1 these next two games. Maybe even a 5-4-1 and look to counter. Anyway we needs us a circus mouse.

Getting sacked in the morning will be chanted for the last 20 minutes from all sides, I can guarantee.

Gordon was well contained. Clearly identified as the Everton dangerman and only once did he get the ball in a dangerous area but his shot wasn't good enough. Other than that he was anonymous.

Here's the highlights: Link

But at this particular point in time we are a long way apart. They are a considerably more attractive proposition in terms of finances, squad, geography, profile etc.

This is why I don't think its fair to compare their sacking of poch and getting of Mourinho to our predicament. We don't have such an illustrious manager waiting in the wings.

I'm sure our away fans wont in nay shape or form but you know what's coming from them lot at Anfield, any excuse to have a laugh at our expense.

Its going to be100% cringe and embarrassing for us all.

Lössl
Sidibe
Keane
Mina
Digne
Walcott
Iwobi
Davies
Richarlison
Kean
Calvert-Lewin

No, I didn't see the Fleetwood match, but I've seen the lad on several occasions in the last year and believe he is a talent. Compared to Theo, who has had one good game all year, I think he's worth a shot. We'll only know when he's actually given one, but using one game as some kind of evidence he shouldn't be given a shot is nuts. Everyone has a stinker sometimes.

I know what you mean Daniel, a more odious bunch you'd hard pushed to find. I'd like to watch the derby but I think I'll be washing my hair that night.

Your 1st and last paragraphs serve to reinforce the very point I'm making.

Namely, we were on equal footing with them 5 years ago, but Spurs had a vision and plan in place which unquestionably they are achieving, whereas Everton's 5 year plan appears to have been written on the back of an envelope that got thrown out with the rubbish.

A direct consequence of the contrasting models is that they ARE in a position today where they can recruit a triple AAA+ manager, whilst we go digging up the corpse of an co-manager to 'caretake' us.

Moyes is allegedly saying that he's only interested in a "long term contract".

Just as I'm only interested in banging Katy Perry senseless and I imagine I'll have as much success as that dinosaur does in blagging a contract far beyond his capabilities.

To be fair, Catterick got Sheffield Wednesday promoted in 1959, took them to a semi final in '60 and got them to runners up behind the great Spurs double winning side. And then did wonders at Everton. He certainly had something about him.

BBC have just announced they're showing the matches.

Jay Wood

Thanks for the detailed report about Flamengo. A few things that I have been wondering about the best South American leagues given that so many of their best players come to Europe - how would you compare them to European leagues in terms of quality?

When I was watching the match on Saturday, the tempo did seem slower than the Premier League (admittedly most leagues are) although it was more open. Is that the case in your opinion?

I suppose these questions come to mind because it seems to me that South American players need to come to Europe quite young like Suarez or Richarlison to adapt. With Funes Mori, we brought him over in his mid-20's from River Plate so you'd have expected him to be a super star for us but it never happened.

Forgive my ignorance as I rarely see the club matches like your good self.

Next question - and it shows my reason for my last question (I'm not interested in watching the RS)...
Has this Gorge Jesus thing actually got legs? Or has everyone (media included) got carried away off the back of Jay's flamboyant acclamation of the man. He's certainly piqued my interest.

This is why it got very dangerous for Koeman when we couldn't distinguish who was signed by who. When it looked like he wanted Davy Klaassen and Nikola Vlasic - that arguably they were his choices and not those of Walsh - he couldn't distance himself from the crazy recruitment. Silva is still able to.

We're in a silly situation where the DOF structure has meant that insufficient recruitment limits the tools the coach has to work with. To compound that, ironically, the club cannot then replace the coach because the DOF hasn't got anyone else lined up. So who is more to blame for the current malaise?

I like Brands and respect his achievements in the Netherlands yet the only excuses I can give him is that he didn't choose Silva and has had to balance the books that were mishandled before he came in.

It's maddening. Those who like Silva will - if he goes - point to what might have been had he been given an established striker or centre half. Those judging Brands cannot truly know his value until we get a coach he picks and after several windows to bring balance to the squad that was so poorly managed in 2017.

It only emphasises that if you have a plan, stick to it. Don't say you're doing one thing and then interfere and compromise it so it becomes a free for all and there's no accountability.

It terms of feasibility, getting JJ in appears, in theory, not to be that far fetched. He apparently wants to return to Europe and we're of the sort of size and possess the resources to attract him.

But I don't buy it. He's got no Premier League experience, has had more clubs than a golf caddy and is volatile.

Unless that's the new approach. We've tried dour, we've tried blind optimism, perhaps now we're after a lunatic in the dugout.

Catterick was certainly a highly rated manager and, as Ray pointed out, his Sheff Wed side finished runners up to the great 'Spurs double winning team.

I think it was the following season (when Harry was Everton manager) that they beat us 0-4 at Goodison with Tony Kay bossing the midfield (for them) and being roundly booed everytime he touched the ball

When Carey was sacked I think Everton were about 5th in the table but that wasn't considered good enough by John Moores. How times have changed!

The 'Spurs management change was very reminiscent of when Catterick was appointed. No messing about; dismiss the incumbent and almost immediately announce his successor.

In answer to your questions, it's not easy to make a direct comparison on the quality of the respective leagues. What I will say is that they are extremely competitive.

This is all the more so when, as you may have seen on Saturday, the two competing teams are from Brazil and Argentina. In any sporting event between the two nations, the rivalry is intense and absolutely no quarter is asked for or given on either side.

Did you notice, for example, how many 'blood injuries' occurred in Saturday's final, to head, nose and mouth? That is pretty commonplace. And the attitude amongst defenders in domestic leagues is pretty much 'maybe the ball or the man may get past me, but never both together!'

It may go some way to explaining why South Americans are regarded as serial divers. It's about self-protection as much as anything else, riding the inevitable foul that is coming your way.

I have read on here in recent weeks that futsal, first developed in Brazil, is directly responsible for the advent of 'simulation' amongst Latin American players. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Futsal, by its very rules, encourages the exact opposite. Following a foul, the wronged team has 4 seconds to restart, or the play gets turned over to the opposing team. So doing a Neymar death roll and delaying the restart penalizes your team.

A futsal ball is also smaller than a standard ball, filled with foam so it barely bounces. The result is that the most effective way to play with it is rapid ground passing.

Every day in Brazil I can see kids of all ages playing football with a futsal ball (or a homemade equivalent!) on the streets or wasteland, rather than use a standard ball, say, a British kid may get for Xmas.

Many a giant of world football - from Pele right through to modern-day CR7 and Messi - credit futsal with honing and improving their skills and technique which they later transferred to full-scale football.

It results in early development of technique, close ball skills, quick short passing (futsal is played in a confined space), positional and tactical awareness and ALWAYS being switched on to what is happening around you, due to the 4-second restart rule.

But back to the quality of the leagues. Based primarily on my experience of Brazilian league football, pretty much all professional players are technically gifted and sound on the ball, including goalkeepers!

Once a laughing stock and the position taken up by the least gifted player, you now have Brazilian guardians of the net at the likes of both City and Liverpool. The goalkeeper's of today play football in a manner unheard of even just 20 years ago. And that originates again from Latin America.

On the question of the tempo, as you yourself say, the PL is possibly an exception to even European leagues. Although transition from front to back can be razor sharp and rapid, that only occurs once the opportunity presents itself. Possession football most definitely rules in Latin America and it's probably a combination of two particular factors:

1) the higher technical skills with the ball at their feet by ALL players. They are happy to give and receive the ball in seemingly tight situations which would have a British crowd having a coronary and yelling 'Get rid! Welly it!'

2) the climate. Of course, north to south Latin America is huge and diverse, covering tropical to temperate climes, coastal to semi-desert, tropical rain forest to the high Andes. But when a Gringo like me struggles to simply cross the road in the heat of the day when they are playing a full-on game of footy, it's no wonder the tempo is different.

I don't agree with you that South American players necessarily need to go to Europe quite young to adapt. There are just too many factors to take into consideration as to if a player will make it or not.

I'm betting, for example, that Gabigol, who Inter Milan picked up aged just 20, but who has never been given a fair run in Europe, will have hugely benefitted from his two loan spells back in Brazil - top league scorer last season with 18 with Santos, current lead scorer with 22 with Flamengo this season - and now just turned 23 will eventually impress in Europe.

One more point. Football wages and contracts in Brazil. Many, many, MANY professional footballers barely make the minimum wage, that is IF the club even pays their wages. Plenty of stories of clubs simply not doing that.

The majority only get single season, or even rolling game-by-game contracts. Brazil's poor employment laws affords them little or no protection. For this very reason, huge numbers of Brazilian footballers ply their trade overseas.

We only hear about the mega-successes of, for example, Brazilian footballers. So it will possibly amaze you that a recent census revealed that no fewer than 10,000 Brazilians play professional football at some level all around the world.

I'll type out that number to confirm it: TEN THOUSAND!

Where I think Brazil lags behind Europe is in the quality of their top ranked coaches/managers, something the current Brazil manager Tite also bewails.

This is due to a combination of the hire and fire culture of Brazilian football. I believe I'm right in saying that this season alone, 17-18 of the Serie A 20 clubs have replaced their manager, some more than once! There is also not the structured progressive coaching qualifications in place that UEFA insists on, so any old Joe could 'coach' even a Serie A team.

Beyond the likes of the legendary Zagallo, Carlos Parreira, Felipe Scolari and maybe Dunga, how many Brazilian coaches can you recall who have succeeded outside of Brazil at club level? No, me neither.

I hope the above gives you a helpful insight on how I regard Latin American football compared to Europe.

But what manager would want to take over given our next 4 or 5 fixtures? A new manager is more likely in January. Unless Marco can turn it around.

l've been saying that all season. Baines has had some minor injuries but, for the most part, is just wasting away. Digne doesn't have to play every minute.

Weird management style this Silver (only not spelt the same). So scared to change a winning. Of course if he changed his winning team for Norwich we would be all over that too. He can't win either way.

‘We have kick and rush.'

I wish we did, David! We have something more like ‘Pass and plod'.

Putting it out there but given the injury crisis in the middle and potentially Gylfi having to drop back or Iwobi play in the No 10 instead of out wide, with Bernard injured, I'm not sure why we didn't play Baines on the left in front of Digne.

He was always better going forward so why not ask him to play as a left midfielder? Having two left footers coming down the left to either over lap or cross would have been an interesting idea.

I've always been intrigued by the Martinez suggestion that Baines could play in a Gareth Bale role but never really felt he was tall enough for that but I don't think playing him on the left side is all that unrealistic. It would have shown some outside the box thinking from our coach but never mind.

I am sure someone will tell me it's a terrible idea.

What a crap position to be in, having to rely on such a bunch of wimps as our first team to save not only your job but probably your last chance of managing in England.

I cannot help but think he will stick with the terribly slow unit of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Delph... in which case, we could get annihilated by both of the opposition.

He needs fighters and there aren't many. If only Duncan, Ebbrell and Unsy were available – that would give him a start. As it is, he has Seamus, Yerry, Lucas, Tom, Richi and Dom who will all give their maximum. Iwobi must play, as must Bernard if fit, and I'd play Delph alongside Tom if he is fit. Holgate is better suited to keeping watch on Vardy.

It doesn't look a bad team on paper and it will boil down to whether he can send them out hell-bent on saving his job and prepared to fight and scrap their way to at least a point.

The team he picks and how they apply themselves will tell us all we need to know about Silva – does he have it in him to gather himself and meet the challenge head-on or will these games be further embarrassment for our great club?

Pat #44, you may not agree but I consider Yerry Mina a VERY worthy CB who will eventually become a mainstay for the club.

I think it was halfway through Martinez's tenure when we still listened to what he was saying as opposed to weeping quietly in a corner as he told us about phenomenal moments.

He made the comparison with Lahm at Munich.

He's a tidy footballer who reads the game well, would give us another option at set pieces and his penalty taking is superior to the current incumbent.

I'm not saying he'd play every game, but I am disappointed Silva hasn't utilised the squad better instead of naming the same guys when they're not performing.

Schneiderlin has to remain out of the side and Davies has to play.

The front free has to be selected from (in this order); Richarlison, Bernard, Calvert-Lewin, Walcott, Kean.

Sidibe has to remain the right back.

The keeper, Mina and Digne pick themselves.

Apart from that, do what you want.

It's so fucking simple and obvious, I don't know how he could have got it so wrong last weekend.

But perhaps on Sunday as being deemed to be slaughtered, the Everton team could turn up and play for their futures, as now that's what they are doing and for their manager, and beat Leicester.

Ifs and ifs, and ifs. The club it seems in terms of football has no plan. At this rate we are becoming QPR mk2.

But we live in hope and it's becoming a life time of for lorn hope. The city centres changing rapids, Old Nick is spawning and Everton, sadly in chronic decline, in that we have become barren, and perplexed at board level, at what to do.

I'd love to attend a board meeting and pre match team talk. What we see and the results to date, belies the fantastic Everton supporters.

This season has been the pits and we will need a miracle to avoid being the bottom three by NYD 2020.

Thanks for that diligent explanation. Good point well made about Brazilian coaches.

The country that always astounds me is Uruguay. Such a talented pool of players from such a small population.

It's definitely on my bucket list to travel around South America and also see Everton de Vina Del Mar in Chile!

By far the best comment in the thread. I laughed my arse off, so thanks.

Since we're now down to debating how awful Kean is for liking a post on Instagram that was probably not even Kean himself doing it, the end times are nigh. And who said they'd rather play with 10 men than see Schneiderlin start? I want to subscribe to your newsletter.

Thanks in hope!

I hope Brands is in Spain as I write taking care of business. I also hope we provide a shock result on Sunday and another one on Tuesday and that Silva leaves with a little dignity.

Given the choice between a loss on Tuesday and an immediate sacking over a victory on Tuesday and Silva's survival I want a win.

I have to say that my enthusiasm to see Silva fired is somewhat reduced by my contempt for the judgement of those who will choose his replacement. I wouldn't trust them to deal with the appointment of a paper boy/girl. Would you ?

I for one - hope he does. He was let down in the summer by the selling of Gueye (remember that that guy that couldn't kick the ball forwards) lack of incoming central defender and a proven striker.

Stats show that we are creating a shit load of chances but no one is putting them away. We're facing fewer shots than most teams in the league but the ones we are facing seem to end up in the net.

The side clearly shows a serious lack of leadership on the field and that could well be Silva's undoing. We need a gritty annoying bastard' in the backs or middle of the park to keep the heads up and shout and moan as the lazy mother's in the team that won't pull their weight.

Emery has gone, he was a bad fit at Arsenal just like SIlva is a bad fit with us.

They act we don't. Says it all really.

Out of Pochettino and Emery Silva is by far the worst of the 3 this year. Lets see who Arsenal go for.

Shocking but not surprising, I also feel they (Arsenal) are going to punt on Eddie Howe which again will be an opportunity missed by an incompetant club management

Incidentally the architect of Emery's utlimate demise was Adi Hutter, the Eintracht manager who made some good subs and tactical shift to win the game after going behind last night. Sounds unfamiliar to an Everton fan! He's a manager i'd like for us, though may not be available till the summer.

We need someone with calm, confident authority to sort it out. Someone with experience. nb [Not Moyes ]

Arsenal and West Ham managerless next week will now make our task harder.

The best option would be for Marco to win the next three on the bounce , then we can forget all about it , like it was a bad dream . Unfortunately this is the the land of the La's not La La land .

Are you actually serious? Steve Ferns has identified what... who.... ??... has he told Moshiri?

Liam,

We are no closer to progressing. That's the point, to get better. We are not far away but we need a change to take us there. How can we continue to employ a manager that doesn't have the ability to manage a game. He was never ever qualified. Don't you think a man making millions a year should know wtf he's doing?

As others have said we are going to be left behind again. Even if we beat Leicester and the rs l still want him gone. He isn't good enough. The players don't look as if they are being coached.

The question for me is WTF do the board think is going to happen with Silva he proved beyond doubt for me his out of his depth, if he gets a performance out of this lot in next few weeks will be from a place of pity , he has already lost their respect

I doubt very much the Aresnal /Spurs forums were full of fans concerning themselves with the possible "pay offs" for the respective managers, ,They failed get them out, its just about having the right attitude/standards set at the top of the club

Somebody above has mentioned it, but I would play Holgate in Schneiderlin's role to provide more mobility, aggression and defensive solidity.
If Delph is still not fully fit, I wouldn't play him in the mid-field. Ditto Bernard.
I would go 4-3-3 and go with:

Pickford
Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Holgate Iwobi
Kean Richarlison DCL

If Delph is fit, go 4-4-2:

Pickford
Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Holgate Iwobi Delph
Richarlison DCL

With Coleman and Digne being told to primarily defend and cut out the crosses. Iwobi playing as an attacking mid-fielder, and Davies and Delph doing the running. Easy!

He annoyed me with his I'm a winner bravado when he signed having played in less than 30% of Citys matches and being injured a lot.

He's a winner though that fella.

The inability to sack someone who, everyone can see, needs sacking.
What does it matter what our run of games are? They are all just fixtures in the Premier League, tough matches all.
Fresh impetus and ideas are needed for these run of games, not more of the same 4231 with the same personnel.
It's more than insulting, it's a total lack of caring about the supporters who are going to Leicester and Anfield.
These games have been thrown away by the board (Brands is included in this) when they could have been used to generate some kind of change and excitement.
They'll be forced to sack him on Thursday morning anyway, and if they don't, we have to not show up on-masse to the Chelsea game, it's the only language these people understand.
Hardly anyone showing up to Arsenal v Frankfurt is why their board pulled the trigger on Emery.

How do we know that? From what I hear and read, they players all like and rate him as a coach.

To me, its the players who are a disgrace. Many of them on close to 100K a week and they're the ones who cross the white line.

Quotes from SAF:

“Every training session was about quality. We didn't allow a lack of focus. It was about intensity, concentration, speed a high level of performance. That, we hoped, made our players improve with each session.

Fear has to come into it, but you can be too hard. If players are fearful all the time, they won't perform well either. But I had to lift players' expectations. They should never give in. I said that to them all the time: ‘If you give in once, you'll give in twice.' And the work ethic and energy I had seemed to spread throughout the club.”

“The goal was to evolve gradually, moving older players out and younger players in. It was mainly about two things: First, who did we have coming through and where did we see them in three years' time, and second, were there signs that existing players were getting older?

I don't think the above is possible with the players Silva has at his disposal and he needs to move many of the senior players out and replace them/ He's currently missing come key components through lack of board action and injuries.

It took Ferguson 4 Seasons to win his first trophy. He was given time and patience. 2 of our former managers are now performing well for National Sides; Koeman has rejuvenated Holland.

I stand in the minority but I hope Silva is given the same.

Who knows? I'll be pretty surprised if Silva is still in the job come January. But then if he somehow manages to get 4 points in the next two games and follows that up with a few more wins he'll buy himself more time. Doesn't seem likely.

I just wonder if we have now reached the stage of if you are not in the top 6 then your jobs on the line, and in Pochettions case getting a club into a Champions league spot 4 years running and even getting them to a final last year still didnt save him. I have to say I cant say who should be the next manager, now many can put forward suggestions but without any certainty of it being a success. I am sure non of the managers sacked so far will be out of work for long, if they choose to go back into management right away.
They may take 12 months out of the job, as just like unpicked players your stock as a player or as a manager seems to go up if you are not selected.

He'd still be above the likes of Moyes and Hughes for me. And possibly above Howe (sorry Jer!). He left Arsenal with a win % of 55 which is not too horrendous.

Perhaps taking someone who has failed with one of our rivals does not feel that palatable but he could be one the better options available if you looks at the context of his whole managerial career. He's done better with good midtable teams to overperform (Almeria, Valencia, Sevilla) than at those expecting to challenge at the very top (Arsenal, PSG). Could be a good fit?

Slow off the mark again!

If a Prem manager is required really there is only one that realistically may be tempted to come (but I doubt he'd want to lower himself) is the Sheff Utd boss.

I think the club is on the brink and if it was put on the operating table and opened up there would be a great shaking of the surgeons head before sewing back up and saying there's F' ALL I can do.

I think Mosh should be looking at Levy and thinking Christ they really are a decisive ruthless club WHICH EVERTON SHOULD BE, no weeping everyone's friend cuddly fantasy chairman.
( in no way do I wish to cuddle him except in a strangle hold by the way)

The communication thing may be a fair point but Emery speaks decent English doesn't he? Not significantly worse than the likes of Pochettino or Guardiola. I guess you'd have to ask around at Arsenal to see if players had serious difficulty understanding him or his translators. If so then it's a valid concern but to rule out anyone lacking perfect English would be to lose a lot of options!

Maybe that's a good thing as judging by our most recent history, the fact that Martinez, Koeman & Silva can speak English didn't make a blind bit of difference.

What's the point of being able to speak the lingo when one of our most prize assets can't?

Arsenal's issues are in the boardroom, Kroenke's priority isn't on the pitch.

He's done no worse than Wenger in his last couple of seasons. I'd have Emery up here on the first Pendolino out of Euston.

I'm a big critic of our regime, but London clubs in Europe with new stadia may find it easier to move quickly and attract better managers, while still getting it wrong.

Easy this football malarkey, isn't it?

So while I'm a critic of the board, I'm willing to be a bit more patient regarding finalising a new manager. I don't mind it taking longer, providing we get it right.

That's a huge if, mind!

I've pounded on about it being more to do with the players than the managers for years since and including Martinez. Of course there are good and bad managers but usually it's the manager that carries the can when the team is performing badly, whatever is the root cause.

The problem is where do you proportion blame? Is it all his fault or is it every other facet of the club that's operating badly?

Its extremely difficult to determine, we have changed managers repeatedly but we have gone backwards or at best marked time.

What we don't need is Silva replaced by another average manager.

We are now in the same predicament as the other clubs he has mismanaged, ie, staring regulation in the face!! Get rid ASAP!!!

I have to say I would have had Emery over Silva anyday last year and I am finding it hard to put my finger on what has gone wrong at Arsenal he has had decent backing

Funny though for Aresene just getting in Top 4 kept him in the job for the last 7 seasons he was there

If people thought before that Eddie Howe was not a high enough "profile" name (whatever the fck that means) we are now competing with Arse and WHU for a manager, As mentioned above here are 2 high "profile" names (ie Pellegrini and Emery) who are both for the chop in jobs in which they barely had time to take their jackets off

Maybe we need to appoint that great foreign master Eduardo Howeio, who won Copa del Libertitotos with Fannyboysrus fc (their first Copa in 50years) in Equador can barely utter a word of English but we can see how many times he scratches his eyebrows in post match interviews to know exactly what he is thinking !!!

Commnication is everything for me, both Klopp and Guardiola not only can speak the language but have an immense grasp of it, Often Klopp will indulge in plays on words etc etc, if you listen to any of Guardiolas famous speeches to Man City players you will hear somebody getting a message across on many different levels well beyond "you stand here" etc etc

Eddie has served his apprentiship, he deserves this chance, I am a firm believer if you do the right think, good things will happen . I have yet to be convinced that any other viable candidate is better suited to the role

Eduardo es el hombre ;)

You look at the Arsenal sides that were successful, they all had leaders of men on the pitch during those glory years.

Last time we won a trophy the squad was packed with hard characters that might sometimes have lacked top class talent but made up for it in abundance with strong minds.

In the four PL seasons under Eddie Howe, Bournemouth's record reads:

2015-16 - 16th, 42 pts, goals against 67 (2nd worst in the PL), -22 goals difference (3rd worst)

2016-17 - 9th, 46 points, goals against 67 (4th worst), -12 goals difference.

2017-18 - 12th, 44 points, goals against 61 (3rd worst), -16 goals difference.

2018-19 - 14th, 45 points, goals against 70 (3rd worst), -14 goals difference.

In the calendar year of 2019 Bournemouth has won just 3 home games in 16 attempts and in 31 PL games their goal difference reads F 44 A 50 - the fourth worst defensive record in 2019, only behind S'ton with 58 conceded (9 in a single game), Watford 57 (themselves the recipients of many a thumping this season), and Brighton 52.

As bad as we have been this season, Silva's Everton has the 4th meanest defence in the calendar year with 36, only bettered by City with 21 conceded, Liverpool 25 and Leicester 33.

But in his favour, Eddie's got lovely diction.

Judging by stories of bad behaviour and players mocking Emery it sounds like they have a few bad eggs in situ there.

He is incapable of organising a defence in any shape or form. As Van Dyke has shown at Liverpool a good defence is the platform that you build on.

1. Estoril took them from relegation places after they sacked the manager to Champions in the same season.
2. Took them to a record 5th position in the top flight and European Football.
3. Improved on 5th to a record 4th position and ended Porto's 5 year unbeaten domestic home record as well as managing in the EL.
4. Won the Portuguese Cup with Sporting, their first trophy for 7 years.
5. Won the Greek league, breaking European wide records en route, and note they have not won the league for the last two seasons so they do not win it every season, and he also won at Arsenal with the current dodgy West Ham keeper in goal.
6. Took over Hull when they were bottom of the league with a 0.65 points per game average (24.7 points over 38 games) and improved it to 1.17 points per game average which would have been 44.5 points over 38 games.

There's your evidence Gerry.

I also find it amusing how you spent the whole of last week shooting down everybody elses suggestions and when pushed for your own were not forthcoming, actually stating is not your job to suggest anybody yourself "wont indulge in fantasy games " I think was the quote when pressed

You then "indulge" in writing an full page article promoting some buffoon who has won in Portugal (see Marco Silva) and some South American joke of a league, citing the fact that he dances about in the dugout as an attribute

To say you love the sound of your own voice would be an understatement. judging by the space you take up on this website , He is the only viable option for Everton and is the right fit and has pedigree in OUR league. And he is a true blue understands our club and fans and has perfect English

Give Klopp or Rogers bournemouth and see how they would fair

Eddies the man ;)

I'll tell you he's not. I think he has a lot of flaws. He is a very combustible character whose antics are great when you are winning, but if he came here and he was losing then he'd come across very badly.

He's a wild card though, and maybe that's exactly what Everton need, and Jorge Jesus at his best could defy the odds.

As for Eddie Howe, personally I'm undecided. I would probably lean to not hiring him. But my father wanted him instead of Silva, despite being a self-adopted son of Portugal. And he knew his football, and I have no doubt he would be championing Eddie if he was still around. My dad argued that Eddie's football suited better players and that his ideas would come across better at Everton.

I have yet to see any name mentioned who is a "viable" candidate that is better suited than "our" Eddie, I just feel because he is homegrown he gets fckal credit and is seen as not fashionable enough

He has earned it the hard way, has served his apprentiship and all I can see is "hasbeen" and "never beens" being mentioned

As discussed he is exactly what our club needs righ now, if he even got 25% more effective with Everton we would be knocking on the door of Top 4-6

It amazes me how easily some dismiss the work he has done with B/mouth over a SUSTAINED period, PLs longest serving manager counts for nothing it seems

It is the "right" thing to do, Stats are great but gut instinct is also a factor (probably what your old man was taping into) there are some things you cant factor with stats as proved above by Jay , That record is with B/mouth ffs not Spurs/ Aresenal is a great acheivement over sustained period but throws it out like is nothing ????

He is knocking on the door for years now , is time we gave him the chance to prove himself with better players

You evidently struggle with counter opinions to your own and simple semantics. The devil is in the detail.

As CLEARLY stated in my original post in the Rumour Mill story about Jorge Jesus, and as CLEARLY stated in the introduction to the standalone thread that the EDITORS created (not me) from that self-same post, I haven't recommended or advocated for Jorge Jesus (or anyone else for that matter) to be our next manager, AT ALL!

All I did was offer a very detailed biog on the man as I know him well having lived in both Portugal and Brazil. In my posts I clearly stated that:

* it 'really wasn't a goer'
* probably, Portuguese media, like all football rumour mongerers, had just looked at the Silva-Everton-Jesus situation, joined the dots and fabricated the whole thing
* IF - a very big IF - there is anything in this and it comes to pass, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Jorge Jesus as some are (I'm guessing I can add you to that list of naysayers)
* it could prove to be a very interesting development indeed. Or...not!

I offered validated data showing Jorge Jesus as a serial winner, as someone who has got his clubs in 'lesser leagues' to continental finals and left it to others to formulate their opinions on what I presented of his record and his personality.

YOU, by contrast, have offered no such insight into Eddie Howe beyond repeating ad nauseum 'Yo da man, Eddie!'

If all the stats I've put up about Eddie Howe can be 'turned any way you wish', then do so. Glibly saying that the consistently poor defensive record of Bournemouth team is "yeah, well, it's 'cos his team plays open attacking football and they get thumped by better teams now and again, innit?" as you did on another thread, isn't a credible counter argument.

Eddie Howe is NOT as you claim "the only viable option for Everton", nor "the right fit", and he most certainly does NOT "have pedigree in [the Premier] league.

As for your concluding face-pulling ad hominem comment about how you perceive me, phtt! Grow up, and then some.

And I quote from same article
"And you know what? The players LOVE him. What player doesn't like a manager who transforms them into Champions? "

"He is an exceedingly fit 65-year-old, younger than both Pellegrini and Hodgson who manage in the Premier League. "

"Every game, they sing for minutes on end “Ole, ole, ole, ole - Mister! Mister!” in homage to him."

"As a measure of his bottle, in the first league meeting between the two clubs at Benfica's stadium after the switch, watch the following video. He DELIBERATELY prowled his technical area for the full game, not once sitting down to shelter from all the debris and abuse the Benfica fans hurled at him.
His "don't take a backward step" message translated to his team on the field:"

Need I go on ??? this is glowing endoresement by Jay there is NOTHING negative in it, , Even the fact that he has pidgeon English at best is laughed off as being "beach "English

So sorry I think Jay is very much engaging in speculation but maybe not very quick to admit it, ,but like lightning when it comes to shooting down others suggestions

@Jay

If Jorge Jesus is "not a goer" why bother write the article ? Is a glowing endorsement nothing negative and any possible negative is turned into a positive ,You are being disingenuous at best

In the same way I make it a thing that Eddie is handicapped in what he does at Bmouth you dismiss the same ,Give me a viable option as stated before "somebody" has to do the job at Everton ??

If Jorge is your vote that fine but please spare us all the cloak and dagger stuff, at least I am prepared to put my opinion out there in the open

btw its "Eddies the man" please pay attention :)

Read the quotes from your OWN article that I list above, they have nothing to do with validated data, they are an impassioned plea on behalf of the guy. All emotion and no data, I am sorry.

If you want to push the guy, fair enough, but just state that is what you are going to do – otherwise, it is embarrassing for yourself and insulting to your fellow TWebbers.

Ehrm...because there was a thread about him. Because I wanted to. And because I can (unless the TW posting guidelines have radically changed).

And NOTHING I wrote about him is fabricated. If YOU yourself are acknowledging the positives about Jorge Jesus, what's that telling you?

As for me engaging in some Machiavellian 'cloak and dagger stuff' and clandestinely promoting Jorge Jesus for our next manager.

Phttt! Again! If you are so familiar with my posting style as you wish to claim, then you know I'll give it to you or anyone straight. I don't resort to supposition, implication or deception to state what I think or feel.

If I genuinely believe, as you evidently do about Howe, that 'JJ yo da man!' I would be saying it loud, clear and unambiguously. I haven't and I won't.

My stated position from last week on who our next manager should be remains. I listed a template, a check list, by which we should be selecting our next manager by. The more boxes a candidate checks, the stronger his candidacy.

I know just one thing with 100% certainty. Whilst not fully convinced by any of the last four Everton managers at the time of their appointment - Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce and Silva - once in situ, they got my full support initially because that's who and what I am as an Everton supporter. Because if the manager does well, then Everton does well. And that's what I primarily want.

And that's EXACTLY the attitude I will apply to the next incumbent at EFC, be that Eddie Howe, Jorge Jesus or even the tactically astute ball boy Mourinho praised in mid-week.

I know I saw your "checklist" and mentioned at the time it looked like a bit of a kop out to me, and I don't know how to hold up the candidates to it, to be honest.

The article you wrote about Jesus was very much favourable in every aspect, if it was dispassionate then he obviously has no bad points at all but you are not recommending him so no point persisting with this

As regards supporting the manager, every Everton manager will start with a clean slate from me, whether I supported their appointment or not, up until they are hurting the club that I love. In Silva's case, this point was passed weeks ago.

At least that is something we can both agree on.

Benfica:

2009-10 – won Europa League group including Everton, losing to AEK. Beat Hertha in knockouts, squeezed past Marseilles, then smashed by Liverpool in the Quarters.

2010-11 – finished 3rd in Champions League group including Lyon, Schalke and Hopel Tel Aviv and even lost 3-0 to Tel Aviv. They then did well beating Stuttgart, PSG and PSV before being knocked out by Braga in the Semis which is not good for the Benfica manager.

2011-12 – 2nd in an easy Champions League group with Man Utd, Basel, and Romanians Otelul Galati. Then squeezed past Zenit (4-3 on aggregate), before losing home and away to Chelsea in the Quarters.

2012-13 – 3rd in a Champions League group with Barca, Celtic and Spartak. Before losing to Rafa's Chelsea in the Europa League final, beating Bayer Leverkusen, Bordeaux, Pardew's Newcastle, and Fenerbache.

2013-14 – 3rd in a Champions League group including PSG, Olympiacos, and Anderlecht. Then again making the Europa League final but losing to Emery's Seville. Beating Greeks PAOK, Tim Sherwood's Spurs, AZ Alkmaar and Juventus.

2014-15 – bottom of Champions League group including Monaco, Bayer, and Zent. So no Europa League either.

Sporting – directly succeeding Marco Silva:

2015-16 – 2nd in Europa League group with Lokomotiv, Bestikas, and Skenderbeu. Before Elimination in the next round with Bayern.

2016-17 – bottom of Champions League group with Dortmund, Real, and Legia Warsaw. So no Europa League.

2017-18 – 3rd in Champions League group with Barca, Juve, and Olympiacos (Silva just left for Hull). Into the Europa League where he beats Astana, Plzen, and loses to Atletico Madrid in the Quarters.

If you want to push the guy, fair enough, but just state that is what you are going to do – otherwise, it is embarrassing for yourself and insulting to your fellow TWebbers.

I think most people who read the Jorge Jesus article saw it primarily as informative, rather than a booster piece, but I guess you are free t place that spin on it from your perspective if you must.

It's the second bit that bugs me: why does Jay have to signal what he's doing? So you are somehow pre-warned to the intent of what you are reading?

And then, how on earth is this (a) embarrassing or (b) insulting?? What an earth is your problem???

This is a football discussion forum for Evertonians. We encourage discussion on topics of interest to them. We chose to 'boost' that post to article status for what we thought were pretty obvious reasons.

Okay, fair point: 'embarrssing' and 'insulting' are strong words to use. If I overstepped on that, I apologies and retract. (If that's all you have a problem with then ignore the rest of my post.)

However, during the week, Jay had no problem shooting down anybody else's suggestions for next manager (which is his right). But, when asked who he would have himself, he refused to partake "in a fanstasy game" as he was not on the board, so it was pointless and futile. Let's be honest – none of the discussions on here will have any relevance to the real world, which we all accept, but we partake anyways. That is fine... moving along

So I acknowledge his right not to put forward anybody, then I read that piece on Jesus and I am sorry but, if it had been written by Mammy Jesus herself, I doubt it could be any more glowing!!

So I feel Jay is being disingenuous as discussed above by putting up a strong impassioned case (see the quotes above I chose from his piece) –they are nothing to do with stats record etc, they are bigging this guy up, and absolutely doesn't look for one minute impartial as I said it appears he has no bad points. Whereas Steve has found plenty as above. If it was an informative piece, where are the negatives?

When I add a post which is nothing to do with him per se and he pipes in with his own 2 cents kicking off with "The record's stu...stu...stuck!" I will pull him up on it, And point what I see to be his hypocrisies.

The fact is, Eddie has his faults but is better than nobody.

As far as apologies and retractions go, that's a pretty poor effort Jer.

I took a scatter gun, shooting down people's manager nominees? Nope! Not so.

I categorically stated with reasons why Moyes should never again be employed in any capacity at Everton in the thread about Moyes and Hughes being considered.

In the Eddie Howe rumour thread I quoted the same stats as I did in post 171 above, ending that post with 'No ta, very much.'

Neither post was directed at any individual poster. I simply expressed my personal opinion. That's 'it'.

And don't come over all coy and innocent by stating your post @ 169 had "nothing to do with [me]" when the following (really poor) parody in that post most certainly DID have 'something to do' with me. I quote:

"Maybe we need to appoint that great foreign master Eduardo Howeio, who won Copa del Libertitotos with Fannyboysrus fc (their first Copa in 50 years) in Equador can barely utter a word of English but we can see how many times he scratches his eyebrows in post match interviews to know exactly what he is thinking !!!"

There's really not a lot going for any of your posts in recent days, is there Jer?

Schneiderlin, Walcott, Delph all out. Coleman out until at least January.

All good news IMO. It forces some hands and puts better players in the starting XI. Though maybe Marco will still somehow get Schneiderlin in there Weekend At Bernie's-style.

Oh, and I can't find the confirmation, but word is Howe is out. He's not interested. And Moyes, lol. He wants 2 years at minimum? Awfully ballsy for a chronically unemployed & mediocre manager.

If nothing else, this might reflect that there really aren't as many top managers out there as we think. Even the biggest clubs are having to turn to old boys with little success behind them.

Is there anybody in Europe who has taken a mid-table club into the upper echelons and DOESN'T have a smear such as relegation on their CV? Is there anyone that's done it more than once?

"As far as apologies and retractions go, that's a pretty poor effort Jer." --thats the best your going to get my friend, and probably more than you deserve

"In the Eddie Howe rumour thread I quoted the same stats as I did in post 171 above, ending that post with 'No ta, very much.'"----

Not the entire truth Jay yet again being disingenuos ( I think I really have the size of you even if Micheal doesnt !! ) what you actually said on the thread when I asked you to provide your alternative to Eddie was along these line:

"I dealt with that DUMB line of questioning on another thread"

As somebody else who was dumb, had obviously pulled you up on the blatant hypocrysy of sitting back saying no, sorry to all suggestions but providing no alternative and stating it was not your intention to put forward anybody which of course you didnt by the very "impartial" glowing diatribe on Jesus

And you werent suggesting for a minute that we hire him ( of course ) so there was no reason at all for you take umberage with my above post mocking what I percieve as a general obsession we on this side of the world have with "foreign" managers, if it resembled your post was more an inditment of how cliched said post was, Similar posts are 2 a penny when a big job in the PL becomes avaiable

See what I am gettin at Jay, I am not having it for a minute !!

This is going nowhere and putting extra work on the Mods who are busy enough for the week that is in it so I will move on from here, Let the posters read the above(if arsed) and your impatial diatribe on Jesus and make up their own mind it bothers me not

I suggest Eddie You suggest nobody is fine

I still think you are ascribing far too much to Jay's posts (as he identifies above), but I have to accept you are not alone. Both Jay and Steve appear to be targetted more and more for their posts, which personally I find hard to understand.

Some people seem intimidated by the information and opinions they post, which I just find baffling. They are simply posters on a football forum, putting forward views which are invariably backed up by information they feel is compelling – and yet we are told they are "shouting down" other posters? If you don't agree with them, fine, but saying that is just ridiculous.

People are hammering them for what are essentially knowledgeable and informative posts which I feel duty bound as Editor to defend, because not only are they high-quality posts, that we seek to encourage, but they also do not contravene our Conditions of Use.

Note: this is not an endorsement of their content... although my footballing knowledge falls far short of what either of them can muster, which makes it hard to construct counterpoints to them. And maybe that's what frustrates others? Sorry, not me. And I have no sympathy with that.

And he's out of work right this very second, sacked in September probably because of them not getting out of the Group stage in the 2018/19 Champions League (tough group with Juventus & United).

I don't believe he's ever gotten a team relegated, but I'm not 100% certain.

It's the way Jay says what he does rubs me up the wrong way(and others obviously). I am indifferent to the content of his posts and find them middling at best and certainly not intimated by them. We are most likely both extremely stubborn characters – I know I am!

As above, I am calling off the dogs: you are very busy and could do without having to separate us pair.

"Although my footballing knowledge falls far short of what either of them can muster."

Also, don't sell yourself short – everybody's opinion has the same value.

He seems to be as good as a candidate as any.

Der, Jer!

First, I'm not arsed one way or the other if you apologize or retract. I considered that part of your post was directed at Michael, not me. I can take the slings and arrows. You, as many have seen, go into meltdown and get personally abusive very quickly.

Second, in rushing to 'prove' (I really don't know what) you trip over yourself again by acknowledging that it was YOU that initiated the exchange with me after I posted my 'No ta, very much' post by asking me to provide an alternative to Howe.

And yes, I batted your request away because I considered it was, and remains, irrelevant. A person's opinion on rumoured managers (that's all I was commenting on) is not rendered invalid because they don't put up an alternative name as you demanded.

Of course, it suits you to fabricate that I am now being both hypocritical and disingenuous in offering the biog I did on Jorge Jesus, even though several times I repeated that I was not nominating him, nor endorsing him, to be our next manager.

It also suits you to attack me, the person, rather than engage in genuine debate about the respective qualities of, for example, Howe v Jesus.

I've offered a pretty comprehensive one on Jesus. You regard it as devious as it only talks up the positives.

So here's a suggestion for you Jer. If you are so keen on promoting Eddie Howe as the future Everton manager, I won't begrudge you not being transparent and honest as you demand of me by listing his failures and weaknesses.

Just give us the full-blown positive review of why he represents the 'only viable option' to Everton at this time as you claim.

Hint: saying he's done well at 'poxy Bournemouth', and arguing that 'he plays open attacking football so of course his team is going to get a pasting now and again' isn't going to be a winning one.

OK against all my better judgements, I will take you on your word that you are not promoting anybody for the current position and have no suggestion to offer( but only who should NOT be manager ) as I said last week pre the impartial (pro) Jesus article. This been the case there is nothing further to discuss.

Actually, I don't think there are many on here who are bland, come to think of it. Just different colours, sizes and styles.