Everton and Liverpool Fans

Be prepared for two months of pure salivating from Sky, the BBC and ITV once the almighty are crowned Champions.

Hopefully this will cause some seismic stir within the powers whom are within control of Everton, to back Carlo with a stratedgy to achieve success.

The RS are being lauded to create a dynasty already, how fekkn shallow are the media, and how many have ever been to a game?

BBC lap dogs and ITV and the Sky and BT football media crews, time to take the long road back for Everton to be capable of winning the league.

This I hope will happen in my time.. 33 years and one trophy, kills the arguments on history..

We need BMD and a renaissance ASAP, for the salvation of EFC.

They sold Torres for a huge profit and bought Carrol and Suarez, Carroll eventually went, they lost a relatively modest amount on him and made an absolute fortune on Suarez.

It's their dealings that have led to them winning the most underwhelming, artificial, VAR infected season ever!
Has the general population ever cared less about a team ‘winning' the stop/start, compromised, rules changed, title in history?!

Underwhelming anti-climax but at least they've caught up to Blackburn and Leicester finally.

Hopefully we can now concentrate on trying our best to get into Europe whilst we build for the future.

Hopefully alien spaceships will come overnight and keep this irritation out of the news.

Oh well... let us hope it is a one-off.

What we need now is a positive stadium update saying the planning has been approved.

Where are a new generation of Everton fans gonna come from?

I believe that, as well as myself and at least 30,000 other Merseysiders, we were hoping for a Man City win. It's sickening that the media believe there is only one team on the Mersey who have taken all of 30 years to win the Premier League.

Tangled up in Blue.
Change my way of thinking.
Murder Most Foul
Slow Train Coming (!!!)

Fireworks going off everywhere.
Something must have happened.
But if there's one year you didn't want it to happen, it's this year.

Proud to be Blue.

Let's be brutally honest the shite we watch these days makes me realise that I gave a complete disservice to the squads Moyes had put together, genuine creative players like Pienaar, Arteta and the guile od Cahill or a Fellaini being a nuisance.

I'm glad Carlo is here but he's got a monumental job on this squad at Everton because frankly it's just a bit shit and pedestrian.

I know we are expected to take it on the chin and move on but every fucking season since Roberto's 2nd it has been painful to watch. How many years since that?

I've said our back 5 seem to be gelling and our front 2 are good lads but our MF is absolutely dire; Tom Davies, Iwobi and Theo Walcott utter garbage.

Until Carlo can restore some modicum of cohesion in that mob we are screwed!

The difficulty now is the FFP ruling that was brought in after the Sky Sports top 6 darlings were firmly established financially, that makes it difficult to compete even if you have Billionaire owners.

They never learn from past shames, they seem to revel in creating new lows but are in a deluded bubble that thinks because it's Liverpool it can get away with blue murder and anything bar shagging the Queen on the steps of Buckingham Palace.

The title couldn't have went to a worse more self-glorified bunch of law-breaking tossers if Lucifer had crowned the bearded porno star the trophy himself.

If only we had someone other than Kenwright dealing with transfers

Jordon Ibe. One goal and three assists in 41 league appearances. 㾻m to Bournemouth.

Joe Allen. Just one year left on his contract. 㾹m to Stoke.

Christian Benteke. Three goals in his final 23 appearances. 㿇m to Crystal Palace.

Mamadou Sakho. Demoted to reserves for not respecting club rules. 㿆m to Crystal Palace.

Dominic Solanke. One goal in 27 senior appearances. 㾿m to Bournemouth.

Danny Ings. Only 25 appearances, playing under 1000 minutes in three years due to injury. 㿀m to Southampton.

Danny Ward. Just three senior appearances. 㾸.5m to Leicester.

He also inserted a genius clause with the Coutinho sale, meaning Barcelona would have to pay an 䀅m premium for any of Liverpool's players. The Barca juggernaut haven't come calling for an Anfield star since.

While Liverpool are doing the business on the pitch, Edwards is doing the business off it.

It's no good Anderson now saying "We are where we are", he should make it clear that the club and their fans should be punished for putting the city in danger and for attacking a World Heritage Site.

Liverpool FC should come out today and condemn this behaviour, and state that there will be no parading or ceremonial unveiling of the trophy except behind closed doors.

I have no doubt our supporters would have done exactly the same.
My main gripe is with the authorities for even allowing the season to recommence, and, Rotherham and the halfwits at SOS who took great umbrage for anyone even suggesting their supporters would do anything other than stay indoors! Naive is not the word for it.

It was bad enough that they allowed the RS Athletico game to go ahead when everyone knew there was a big risk of it causing a Covid-19 spike.
Merseyside has already suffered disproportionally so what has happened the last two nights at the ground and Pier Head in my mind is criminal

They have never known how to carry either victory or defeat. All those trophies and not a drop of class.

No prizes for guessing who that club is. Even they knew their vile scumbag, poor excuse for supporters could not be trusted.

Another 180 odd folk died yesterday and, after the scenes we've witnessed the past two nights, for sure there'll be more on Merseyside.

I'm disgusted with the authorities and the City the way it's panned out since the Atletico Madrid game, apart from fucking Rotherham and the arseholes at SOS, did anyone expect any different?

Also mass gatherings with complete ignorance of any pandemic advice which will put the whole local community at risk. They may have won the Premier League but they won't be winning any goodwill from the rest of the UK.

Any chance you could submit a fan piece for us? Thanks!

Have you seen the one where Liverpool fans have gone to Old Trafford, to celebrate winning the league? Un-fucking-believable that this could be in their thoughts, but not a surprise to loads of us.

I've been looking out for your stream of consciousness since you-know-what happened.

And now I discover it's been deleted before I had a chance to read and chuckle with it!

Bugger! Hope it was a doozy.

I had to laugh at the blanket coverage BBC sport gave to it yesterday. I stopped counting at 14 separate articles on the event of the century on their home page without scrolling to the end

Ridiculous.

Writing an article as Michael requested may get you banned, fellah, but it would be a brilliant read for the rest of us!

Rob - I agree that you're up there with the best at hating the loathsome rs - difficult to come up with a "top 1%" as suggested by Tony though as I reckon the vast majority of us feel the same about them and the numerous vile acts they've committed over the years!

But there are many videos on twitter this morning showing the arsehole dressed in black teeshirt firing rockets from a rocket launcher at the Liver Buildings. He also fired 1 that went astray and ended up back in the crowd, yet instead of some grabbing the arsehole they are there actually encouraging him to fire more at the Liver Buildings. These are the scum of the earth and I would hope that because there are so many pictures of the scum bag someone tells the police his name so he can be arrested and named. I mean what arsehole turns up to a suppose celebration with a rocket launcher.

I have seen a tweet from Chris Bascombe a red who used to write for the echo condemning this action and Kelly Cates saying the same.But absolutely nothing from the hordes of sport leader writers who support them. And how come the SOS were so vocal when Joe Anderson said he worried about what might happen when they won the league, yet have said nothing about Thursdays gathering or even worse what happened last night. If you supposedly set yourself up as an organisation to act for the supporters then you have to come out and strongly condemn this behaviour if you want to be considered creditable.

You really have to wonder if certain elements to their fan base believe they are untouchable. When you think of the cans and bottles thrown at the City coach and despite hundreds of Police present not 1 arrest. Then the fans who pushed the old guy into a fountain in Barcelona. These are not isolated incidents they occur to happen on a regular basis with some of their fan base.
Remember when They smashed the Man Utd coach with players on board some years back, and the fixture the following year they asked Bob Paisley to sit in the Man Utd coach to help stop it happening the following year. Then their supporters attacked an ambulance carrying Alan Smith from Man Utd to hospital.

The official line that comes out of their club is that very small minority of fans were involved, as if thats ok. Even going back to Hysel the night of the attack their then chairman John Smith said he had heard that a group of National Front supporters had infiltrated the Liverpool supporters. Obviously later proved a complete lie. So lets not make out that they havent got an element of supporters who for years have been allowed to carry on unchallenged. Finally you may remember last year when Chelsea supporters verbally abused Sterling and they were all banned, also Chelsea when playing away in Paris had some supporters who prevented a black man getting on the Metro and Chelsea identified those fans and banned them as well.

I'm surprised the RS seem to have so many local 'fans' although many are probably armchair TV fans. As long as any spread of Covid-19 is concerned we should encourage them to gather so long as they can limit the virus to themselves.

Even inadvertently spreading the virus by insisting (Klopp) the Spanish game went ahead. Now probably another spike on the way but obviously no blood on their hands.

The sad thing is, yet again, the whole country will be seeing these images, and brandishing us all with the same brush. I have lived in Liverpool all my life, and I am proud to be called a Scouser, and proud that we have a magnificent city. I just wish all these vile scumbags would just Fuck off. Listen, I know plenty of RS fans who are really decent (hurts me saying that!) who would never dream of bringing disgrace to the city.

John Houlding has an awful lot to answer for!!

However, Michael, almost every thread goes off on a tangent, returns and goes on another totally different route. That's half the fun!

You should have left it as no doubt the outrage would have been quite funny!

Thank you Farhad! Clever move that was. Let's keep the blue lights.

The birds should be next.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
I've just said exactly the same to a friend of mine.

Don't forget the faeces in cups thrown down on Utd fans, the fighting against Sevilla, the stealing tickets off their own in Istanbul and the defending of Michael Shields.

What about Moshiri buying the (two?) ferries. Decking them out in blue. Renaming them "Everton" and "Dixie Dean".

When that lot then sang the praises of "Ferry 'Cross the Mersey"...!

I have never seen a set of fans more aggressive and histrionic when anyone questions their club and they are obsessed with Everton to the point of pathology. Their attitude is why all other clubs hate them. In contrast, when Leicester won the league, fans from many clubs were delighted.

Now they are celebrating their only title in three decades by spreading Covid-19 and trashing their own city. It's already history now and nobody cares, you cretins, move on.

As UEFA highlighted as far back in 2007, their fans are the worst behaved in Europe with more incidents than any other club. In the words of UEFA at the time:

“What other set of fans steal tickets from their fellow supporters or out of the hands of children?”

In a shock turn of events, the shite reacted with fury to the report and claimed that it wasn't them and everyone else was to blame.

They think it's okay because they're special. Well they certainly are special, just not in the way they think.

And they're still talking about having a parade. Any other club, in any other city, and there would be a collective punishment for this kind of behaviour, but the RS are untouchable it seems.

Like you, born and bred in this City, and also like you, I have many friends who support the reds, and would be as appalled as I am with the behaviour of those fans. I am very proud to be a scouser, but sadly their supporters have at times tarnished what being a scouser means.

I am a Labour supporter through and through and thankfully we now have a leader who can challenge the Tories. The reason I mention about being a Labour supporter is because, for me, one of the most important reasons Liverpool got off its knees after the Toxteth riots was Michael Heseltine. He helped rejuvenate the Albert Dock which is a great tourist attraction that brings in millions to the City's economy. I also think, without Heseltine, Liverpool 1 wouldn't exist.

I think Thatcher, who hated Heseltine, only gave him the job of being Minister for Merseyside as she thought it was a poisoned chalice which would see the end of Heseltine, but he made a great success of it and remarkably got on well with most Scousers, irrespective of how you voted.

I hope that those fans who have behaved so despicably will remember it takes years to build up a reputation of Liverpool being a place to visit and enjoy the sights and its people, and minutes to destroy that reputation. But I doubt if those who took part in the last 2 nights would either care or understand that.

But there are others who are perfectly sane and rational in everyday life who, when talk turns to anything remotely critical of their club or fans, turn into cult-like zealots.

Many of their fans are the Donald Trump of football supporters. Arrogant, entitled and unable to see their own obvious and apparent failings. They blame everyone else and think they are somehow better than everyone. It is these traits that make them the most loathed fans in the country but somehow, ones who are eulogised and mythologised by the media.

The truth is that the media feeds them the hype so they believe the hype. This is pushed on them (and us all) by them parading ex-RS pundits everywhere. Having to listen to them all with their biased views week in week out. The BBC webpage had 13 links to do with Liverpool and their league win 13!!!

Over here in Australia we have a paid TV service for our Premier League games called Optus Sport and yet we are now subjected to Kloptus Sport. This is the other side of the planet and the media still feeds us this crap and their fans believe it.

I'm still hopefully of some major drug bust up or something to taint their season good and proper but saying that and knowing them they will probably squirm their way out of it.

"TERRORIST STYLE ASSAULT ON EVERTON HQ BY KOPITES" is the headline I'd be ramming down the Red Echo's throat if handling Everton's PR.

Maybe the National papers will pick up on it, we in Liverpool should keep this and, heaven forbid, Everton FC join in the condemnation of these totally out of order “supporters” shamed and shameless year after year.

I do think the European ban affected us probably more than any other club as I don't think Lineker would have left amongst others.

I would say though that it was Liverpool that deserved to be banned and, given the corruption that has finally come to light regards Uefa, there is no way if this happened now all clubs from one country would be banned. It isn't a coincidence that I think in the preceeding 10 years, English clubs won the European Cup 7 times and I think were runners up twice. We won the Cup-Winners Cup and had 2 losing finalists. Uefa Cup 3 winners in the same period. I think it was an excuse for Uefa to stop the English winning.

At some point, this feud between the clubs has to stop. I hoped after the display we put on in remembrance of the Hillsborough disaster would go some way towards that. You can't legislate for people being brain dead.

I just hope that when (!) we do win something, there aren't any silly retaliatory efforts. Hopefully we will show some class that a small section of Liverpool fans couldn't.

Apologies for you having to write this, may I say, wonderful piece on our neighbours.

There was no designated thread when I wrote my piece this morning and why that and a couple of others were removed was strange to say the least as most threads go a bit off course. My initial gripe was to express my disgust on recent events.

I will never understand, or accept, the thought process of allowing the Atletico game proceed with supporters. They were well warned prior to the game of possible consequences.

Warnings were proved to be correct with the experts saying Covid-19 cases can be directly attributed to the game. Merseyside has suffered worse than many areas of the country.

So now we come to the present. Whilst I was and still am totally against the resumption of the season, what say does a citizen have compared to the money men?

Rotherham and the bastion of righteousness, the SOS, took great umbrage when it was suggested the fuckwits would make an arse of themselves. Anderson was immediately slagged off and more or less ordered to apologise.

Everything that was predicted has come to pass, and it will not end here. My point was, will our friends at SOS and the ex-brickie take any responsibility if just one further Covid-19 death can be attributed to their implicit support of their supporters?

Knowing the past history of this disgrace of a Club, I have no doubt they will deny all knowledge then blame someone else. Nothing changes.

Looking at them gloating as they dominate is getting harder and harder to stomach. Made all the more harder because we have nothing to throw back at them.

I've moved around a bit and they never really bothered me. Then in 2005 the mugs and ornaments on work desks appeared. So I'd often engage in idle conversation for my own amusement. Most of the time I'd been to Anfield more often than them, some had never been, but in fairness they all hotly announced they were “life-long Liverpool fans”, I'm sure “Shankly” was the first word some of them said. I was amused but not really bothered by them.

Then the internet caught up with me and it's much more difficult to ignore them, particularly Facebook were I have snoozed a few recently. Sadly it's getting harder and harder to ignore them, but I'll keep trying!

Within the football world, the story is 30 years of hurt blah blah isn't this a great thing blah blah, but outside of that horrible bubble, the story is the fuckers are tainted once again by the behaviour of their dickhead fans.

God, I love having a dedicated thread for venting my loathing of those gobshites.

What I have never understood particularly in recent times is how we have allowed the city centre to be almost exclusively adorned in LFC related propaganda, it's as much our city as it is theirs, but you would believe only one club resides here if you were a visitor.

Evertonians should he proud of the club they support and shouldn't allow the neighbours to define us, whether that be up front and personal or via the media.

We can only hope our day will come.

Does that then mean that Klopp will be told to stay the hell away from their training ground and end up sitting in Bramley-Moore Dock with the Evertonians?

EAB - NM

There is a pandemic, hardly a mask to be seen anywhere and, although the attendees may be asymptomatic, they could have infected older or vulnerable friends and family. This won't be apparent for another two or three weeks.

They should hang their heads in shame. It's bad publicity for our city and the unlawful gathering has been seen all over the world. Rather took the edge off winning the Coronavirus Premier League.

Darren, correct we have nothing to throw back at them. Stories about the 60s doesn't do it.

Not saying we don't have our fair share of ne'er do wells but we never win anything so it isn't an issue

They've always attracted more of the scumbag element than we have as a club, and previous incidents only go to prove it. Unfortunately the only way to shut them up is for them to have a huge fall from footballing grace and I hope Man City buy and prepare well for next season because we're certainly not going to be the one's to outdo them on the pitch.

Not true, I've got a couple of tonnes of hardcore and rubble in my garden. We could try that as a start

Much easier to use water cannon pouring out permanent blue dye. Followed up with CS gas and rubber bullets. Should clear most of them out the Pier Head...

Listening to Evertonians pouring out of ale houses all over the City singing "Hand it over, Hand it over" as we closed in on the title was a joyous time. They simply couldn't handle it.

The thought that history will one day repeat itself is what keeps me going.

But basically a life time of bad descisions, -1977 semi Maine Road, CT, and numerous bad descisions over years has given them an unholy stream of lucky descision.

College at a North East Tech, as Ive said before on here, after they came back from Heysel, and me and a ma8, getting the third degree of CID, because some of them were bragging and shouting off, and we did what we thought was right.

This time, the pro RS media, and their pathetic lack of parallel and knowledge of history has made this more difficult important than the real time events ravaging the planet at this time.

All said and done, if and when there's a next TW do, then more will be said.

For now we need a winning mentality across the club and into the team. Until then, we have to bide our time.

Yes my loathing is total.

I couldn't help myself yesterday, the gate was open and so I walked onto the site at Bramley-Moore Dock, said a little prayer, looked to my left and saw the Liver Building, through the gap.

We are going to become the premier team in the city once again, the city will grow towards our new stadium, and Everton will become the number one team – that is what I prayed for, on the banks of the royal blue Mersey!

Unlike most on here I am actually ashamed to call myself a scouser because of those gobshites. I don't really care if they win the title for the next 20 years, may the best team win so to speak, but you will not see a more classless organisation on the planet. Ashamed today of my city of birth.

In the early 60s, I would go to Goodison to watch the first team and the reserves. I would also go to Anfield with family and friends. That stopped around 66. I haven't watched a Red Game, or goals, or highlights since Suarez and the incredible reaction by Daglish.

I have very long hair and wear ribbons around my neck – I am noticeable in a crowd – at the last Blue vs Red Wembley Semifinal, I stood for the Hillsborough Commemoration... seconds later, being separated from Red Fans by several seats with plastic over them, some of the "jolly reds" saw me and were shouting "Kill the hippie" – I make no joke about this... literally seconds after standing for "the dead".

I cannot bring myself to hate anyone over football but I refuse to discuss "them" with anyone who does not go to the game. - I ask them: "Why don't you go the game?" and "Why do you support Liverpool?" I rarely get a printable answer.

Intolerance and indulgence over many many years led to last night's situation and it has been coming. No acceptance of consequences, no discussion of other "tragedies", Daglish's T-Shirts, history being rewritten to absolve any potential criticism.

Accept things, say "Sorry", move on... seems impossible to most.

I must add that I am known in the media for my stand against "de greatest citttyy in d' weeearld" syndrome – I cannot stand it. It creates arrogance and an attitude of "We know best"... "we can do what we like".

I love everything about going to the match – to repeat, I do not hate people – certainly not because of football – but I choose not to talk to most of them or correspond with them.

Finally, I saw the video/photos... adults cheering and standing by. In the past, I have told racists to shut up at the game... asked people around me not to chant serious horrible crap – certainly not about "personal" lives. In The Dark House, we welcome away fans, and I asked many years ago for racist sexist stuff to stop, to make our match-going pub a pleasure to go to – to be Blue and enjoy it – for it to be Bluetiful to go to The Game.

The Dark House gang do this and it's a lovely day out for that.

Up The Blues – and Truly Cosmic Grooves to all fellow Blues – with a firm handshake (even today).

I chose Everton despite the fact that everyone, and I mean everyone, in my family were reds. As a kid in the 70s, I'd watch Everton at Goodison and then most other Saturday's go with my brother-in-law to watch them (for free as he paid for everything) at Anfield. No hassle whatsoever even though I hated walking into that dump and cheered for the oppo.

At school, it was 50/50 and only good banter until the bastards won the European Cup in 1977. That's when it all changed. The gloating, the baiting, the sheer dickheadedness made me start really disliking them.

In the early 80s, I moved abroad and spent 20 odd years working in different countries. While I was away, my anger towards them abated until Heysel. After that their denial, arrogance and lack of awareness really pissed me off and after the Steaua Bucharest banner, my dislike turned to hatred.

Since returning to the UK in the early noughties, our continual decline into abysmal mediocrity and their fucking superiority complex backed up by the fawning media, staffed to the rafters with RS pundits, has made me 100% bitter – and proud of it!

I could write a lot more but I might get an ulcer, or worse. I hate them, their gobshite fans in particular, and I doubt if I will ever stop hating them. Fuck them all!!!

I've just seen the video of the crowd attacking the police outside the Liver Building. It's actually hard to believe. What is wrong with these people? And like George says, as a city we're often guilty of peddling this myth of how we're better than everyone else – well, watch that video, and then tell me this is the greatest city in the world.

Everton FC should have nothing to do with these contemptible bastards, every last one of them. I wonder how many of us True Blues continue to be revulsed in the celebrated anniversary of that massacre, to see Everton FC with Blue Bill and his pair of kids in red and blue shirts cowering in obsequious remembrance of their 96 – at Goodison Park of all places. That's what makes me sick.

If we saw even a glimmer of annual remembrance and humility from them for the murdered Italians at Heysel, and the lasting damage that did to us... but no. The record of history has almost been wiped clean.

Good post, Rob. We should never forgive or forget what they did to us.

Potentially more disturbing and with greater long-term impact is the dark story of Liverpool FC and their ugly shower spreading the virus through the city. This has hardly been noticed, smuggled into the deep depths beneath the glorious journey to empty Stamford Bridge and the Pier Head crimes and trashing.

The powers-that-be at Red Shite HQ chose, against all manner of advice from countless constituencies (including decisions taken by the Premier League), to invite 3,000 locos from virus-torn locked-down rabid Madrid to Liverpool (the city). They did so with no thought for the people of Liverpool.

Their decision has been recognized as leading to an unknown - but high - number of deaths, making the city one of the first epicentres of contagion.

'We want to perform for the city', hideous Henderson barks, dreaming of lifting the soiled trophy up high at an empty Hades (the scenes, by the way, will be fecking hilarious).

Yeah, you do don't you, lives-don't matter Henderson. You performed death and long-term sickness you knobhead. Your 'club' has caused untold suffering to its host city.

A few thousand RS in any situation is a heaving mass of sweat, pus, piss, plague, vermin, self-soiling etc. So, just imagine what the Pier Head crew will do to our city - the results, sadly, might be brutally clear in a couple of weeks. Good blue blood and breath will be infected.

There needs to be a public inquiry at some point in the not too distant future that has full powers and access to fully investigate the impacts of decisions taken by Liverpool FC and their dark hordes on COVID-19 infection in the city. Prosecutions ought to follow. Perhaps the ‘club' should be locked down for a few years for inviting death to the city.

This is yet another grim chapter in the grim history of 'de luvable reds cross the park'.

And to cap it all, they rub our noses in it with a Steaua Bucharest banner every home game as if it's a badge of honour, their hooligans causing 39 bereaving families. I'm glad fellow blues are seeing the light and there is only this brothers in arms bullshit when it suits them.

Also God only knows how the government will judge bearing the current economic recession.

The world will see and judge and the impact of COVID19, on investment and development is unprecedented. This outrage and uncalled for serious of events will in my view, hinder and add fuel to further speculation.

I hope this doesn't impact investment potential for BMD, as the North Docks regeneration plan if forfilled would help sustain the growth and recovery of the City these last 20 odd years in terms of employment and regeneration.

Let's see what happens.

So true mate, I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again, because I love putting that club down. A few years ago, 2005 to be exact, a mate of mine was diagnosed with motor neurone disease (MND). Four of us including me mates brother organised two charity events to raise funds to send him for stem cell treatment abroad.

We asked both Everton and Liverpool for prizes to raffle or auction. Everton give us loads of stuff for the two events... Liverpool, after two or three requests, finally give us a signed picture of Gerrard with the Champions League trophy. For the second event, they give us fuck all. Needless to say, that picture was just binned.

A few years prior to this, my wife was involved in a charity event to raise money for five young kids who tragically lost both parents. Again, Everton were brilliant, giving loads of stuff, while the RS give fuck all.

Furiously, the wife phoned the Red Shite and told them what Everton had provided, and why they were giving nothing? Their reply, "We receive thousands of these requests every week from all over the world, and can't deal with every one."

Unreal, this was five kids from your own city who you are not willing to help. Anyway, a few days later, a parcel arrived through the door from them. It was a signed away shirt that was from a strip about five years previous.

So Tom, you're right, you will not see a more classless organisation on this planet.

Yeah, nearly 500,000 deaths worldwide will fade from memory faster than a Championship win secured in a busted flush of a season most football supporters could barely be bothered seeing out, never mind attributing significance to.

Then again, maybe I'm the one hopelessly out of touch with what the entire population find to be of earth-shattering importance. Maybe the fortunes of one English football club does take precedence over everything else and the entire planet has ripped off their gloomy pandemic grots and replaced them with crotchless red party keks for this special occasion. After all, a fried chicken shop in Singapore IS giving away free scran to any fucker who strolls in wearing their succubi's fanny rag of a shirt:

Link

Then there's this tit, who last month was cursing coronavirus for cocking up pre-planned celebrations for him and his fellow army of long-suffering ‘kopites'. A plan that consisted of buying a big truck and decking it out in red sheets with their meffy motto daubed all over it, so they could then take to the streets, en masse, and revel in their inevitable title win with an “open top bus parade” (of that renowned red shite hot-spot, Phayao, in northern Thailand)... err... just with no bus, no ‘open-top' and no fucking title, when they decided to crack on with the celebrations regardless, before the Championship was even clinched:

Link

It's as though cringe-inducing, forced, fervour has been given human form and is getting ready to crawl through the screen, Sadako style.

That fucker smugly holding the badge out on his shirt, like in his mind it makes him the Fonz? His mates hoisting flags skyward with pepperami straight arms and the evangelical expression of a Pentecostal preacher plastered on their smacked-arse mugs? Leads one to wonder whether, instead of resorting to a siege, all David Koresh really had to do to silence dissenting voices around Waco was whack on a copy of ‘You'll Never Walk Alone'.

I suppose you can't be too hard on the culty lemmings latching on from a distance, not when those directly involved with the club encourage such sect-like shenanigans with their own shit-spouting. Carragher acting like he got a medal himself, popping champagne and popping off to town to join the crowd of Covid careless; Klopp praising Gerrard for the way he contributed to their title win by... err... playing for them in the past; and Abel Xavier, quite rightly, reminding everyone not to forget to thank Gerard Houllier for this season's success, despite the fact the Ren from ‘Ren and Stimpy'-eyed Frenchman fucked off 14 years ago.

I would imagine, if not already done, their spin doctors will be blaming infiltrating Evertonians for the troubles.

Actually maybe it never happened, just like Heysel.

John #103, I've seen tweets accusing undercover Sun Journalists being responsible for firing the rockets, not written with irony but genuine conviction that the press are out to get them!

No one else to blame this time, just the RS!

You and me were both clearly wrong when we said we had nothing to throw back at them. I've already pissed half-a-dozen of them off by forwarding JD's post.

It's been too long, John. My lads don't half miss your posts. Me too!

I wonder if Loris Karius, who suffered verbal abuse and death threats from his own supporters for his mishap (hehehe) in the CL final against Real Madrid qualifies for a freebie, as he was certainly made to walk alone! Or maybe the few hundred part time staff who were furloughed, and made to feel like they were walking alone!!

Says more than I ever could.

Paul 108 the shower at SOS only get upset when anyone attacks their Club and supporters, however, as, once again, the Club and supporters did absolutely nothing wrong then no need to say anything

It will be interesting to see if an equal number of people who supported executing that Dominic Cummings for breaking lockdown rules similarly support the execution of our mate Spit?

I think the question for Sky will be twofold. How can they deflect any sort of condemnation of Spit and keep him gainfully employed with the organisation-possibly blame an Evertonian for wearing a Spit face mask. Secondly if they have to finally get rid of him how many former RS players are around to take over his mantle before the new season starts.

They really are a despicable Club supported by a bunch of pyromaniac loving scum.

Take note, the Premier League has changed in the 30 years it took your team to win it. To those supposed knowledgeable pundits – no, no, no; the whole of Merseyside was not happy Liverpool won the league.

They are the most hated club in England, they are the most hypocritical club in England if not the World, more people have died attending matches involving them than any other football club, yet none of the deaths was caused by the loveable rouges, it was and always will be somebody else's fault.

Sky, BT, the BBC are run, managed, and funded by Shite supporters, so it's no wonder the true facts and wanton vandalism goes unmentioned.

You only have to go back to Spitgate!! Anybody found guilty of spitting at a person would have received 3 months at Liverpool Magistrates Court, yet Mr Wonderful got a slap on the wrist and now appears more regularly on Sky!! Where's their famous words, "Justice"?

The words of my late Father always echoes in my ears when he said to me as a kid, " Lad, I would rather die with our History, than live with theirs" How very true.

I hope to God we don't get a second spike of this dreadful virus in this City, but if we do, Then we all know who was the cause of it... it will be the Police's fault, as it's usually the regurgitated shite that comes out from that club.

Keep the faith lads, better dead than red.
COYB

"Horrific footage shows police attacked with missiles as Liverpool mayor slams 'shameful' scenes" and "Reaction to shameful scenes after Liverpool title celebrations".

'Shameful' is a good word, sums them up. Except they have no shame do they?

Journo: “Do you think Everton fans will be celebrating with you?”

RS: “They may as well cos they'll never win it.”

Wow, such magnanimity is touching.

Pier Head - The Day After

What makes this week, different than, the past, in view of the constant of life to Mankind?

Senseless, selfish. We need an Everton Renaissance, in football ASAP, Evertonians, have class

The naive and ignorant press are the crap house sponsors of the RS.

Time to replay the events leading to, and after the Athletico game.

It's an interesting story and whilst Man City cancelled their game in lieu of best international code of practice, via UEFA, local, regional, national, and in this case European),our neighbours despite the warnings, and knowledge of taking the piss, played their game, got shown up, and further spread COVID19.

For this aspect I solely blame the government and The council, for not being brave enough to speak up and cancel that match.

Lions or pussys, but at that time, you can make your own view.

History continues to be edited, and the RS, are the Devine souls of help, prosperity and success, by the UK media.

Is their really hope?
Get BMD done, get the laser lights and rights sorted.

If Let's hope so.

I spoke honestly to my son today; my long suffering son, born in 1994 who has only ever heard of successful Everton teams.

I can confine in him without being accused of being "bitter". That is something Kopites throw at us if we dare disagree with the Anfield narrative or suggest that as a club, they have in the past behaved in a manner that lacks class.

My honest point was that I came from a generation where we had rivalry, but I could still bring myself to respect their success and be pleased for them when they won; early European triumphs spring to mind when we were pleased for civic pride reasons. Half my family are reds. I remember congratulating them after their European Cup win against Roma.

But, I think this week has made me realise / confirm how much the events of the mid-80s has impacted my view of that club. I acknowledge and appreciate that all clubs have moved on from what happened to English football and we were all served the same punishment. I accept that Everton Football Club has made many poor decisions in the decades since and cannot apportion all the blame for our demise across the park.

However, unlike in the late 70s and early 80s where I had a grudging respect, I cannot be pleased for that club. Our greatest team was denied the opportunity to prove itself on the stage on which they deserved to be and one on which our cousins have succeeded since. And all because of the actions of their fans. We were punished for something we didn't do. They may be worthy champions, but unlike previous decades, I now feel resentment rather than respect.

I appreciate this may be a non-traditional fan base influence, because as I say, half my Liverpool based family are red, but as a collective, they have become a very peculiar bunch. My rivalry with them has always been fierce, but whereas it was previously based on grudging mutual respect, I now despise them as an entity.

I needed to say that as I'm off social media in case I cause a family fall out with my cousins!!!

Only time I have been worried was joining a ship in Sicily, out in the local bar watching Champions League games. Talking to a fella at the bar, I told him I was from Liverpool – and that was it, spitting and telling me to go. I did, don't get me wrong, I just went back the hotel... but their actions live long, the fella was a Juventus fan and really upset.

Fekkn illiterate to facts and real facts. Cause and effect history will soon hopefully put the authorities in line.

In line, with law though, as we know doesn't mean much with the LFC.

It does feel the entitlement they hold and the stick they've got for being shite has been held onto and rolled into one massive grudge. Instead of joy, they seem to be angry about winning. Within seconds of them clinching it, my phone lit up like the Liver Building. Fair doos, I suppose.

I've plenty of mates who support them, each with there own position on spectrum of occult. Look I take as I find, and if they're sound then it makes the games better and the banter decent. There have been plenty of occasions where things have gotten out of hand and we just skip the footy part.

I've plenty of other mates who support other clubs and there just isn't the same indoctrinated Pavlovian response to this kind of stuff. I think the hardest part is the lengths even decent lads go to justify it. The amount of ‘whataboutism' practiced to justify stuff is just shameful.

If they owned it, then who honestly would have an issue? Every fanbase has bellends; as long as you call them out, then that's sound. They defend everything.

Fekkn illiterate to facts and real facts. Cause and effect history will soon hopefully put the authorities in line.

In line, with law though, as we know doesn't mean much with the LFC.

Crazy as my last message, as default showed up.

Everton, and Everton, always..

Let's focus on us not them. The vandalism and desecration, we know is normal but never except able..

We as EFC, the club must get some solid fibre, and moral backbone, to see through the next decades. Forget the RS, and focus on solely EFC. No deals, no advantage to them.

From the outside in, I believe EFC, is in a good position, to make the change, but can't afford any more false dawns, as we witnessed the last 30 years.

If... As Kipling said.

The short version: and this is going back to when they got promoted (oh how we laughed when they just kept missing out) - they were iffy back then and they've got a lot worse as the years rolled by.

The standard saying then was... and still is: "You can always tell a kopite - but not much." The other two about gobshites and 1 = 20 still apply.

When a story pops up like the Liver Building fire thing, my standard reply / post is - 'RS, you alway get exactly what it says on the tin.'

So, back in the early 60s, we'd win a derby and Monday morning it would be full on. But by Tuesday afternoon it would be finished for us.

They'd win one and Monday morning it would be full on, and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. By Friday, they'd be saying, "Who are you playing tomorrow?... So and So... ha ha, they'll beat you just like we did, 2-1, 2-1, 2-1." Or whatever, off into the distance as they went away laughing.

Poor losers and even poorer winners.

And to think I used to go there on the odd Saturday or Wednesday in the 60s for want of something to do... tbf, it was different back then but it rapidly changed and sadly so did some the mates you went with.

They became what today is called 'radicalised' as rabid as any (Rev) Paisley or Ayatollah.

Pre Edit; Rob; I saw the title and wrote mine without reading yours first, because you put exactly what I would write only better.

Re. the all-pervasive rs-ness; it's not new: in the late 60s, Bill Tidy put out a cartoon showing (presumably) an Evertonian putting his TV on the counter of the local repair shop - 'Have a look at this willya mate, it's not working properly, I can only get Leeds and Liverpool on it.'

Edit 2; I called it radicalisation and I notice others spot the same theme.

Of course it is.

They're already full of excuses. So far I've had the usual: It wasn't them!

The video of them attacking the police was, actually down in London last week! And the best one, that video was from the Toxteth riots!!!! No blame, no shame.

And all these excuses not from young lads but old arses like me!!!

Thank God my whole family are Blues so I can only tell relative strangers to Fuck Off!

I get the feeling anything other than high praise for anything they do will be met with lazy self-serving accusations of being ‘bitter'. This is absolute bollocks and suggests a character flaw in blues whereas the truth is ours is more an angry dismay with some of their number.

Is it wrong to be critical when there are thousands congregating at a time of global crisis? Or to be disgusted at the Atletico Madrid game going ahead? On this thread, there have been many historic outrages highlighted, worsened for me by hordes of cretinous RS pundits airing their casual bias on TV (when not spitting on children from their cars).

The word is 'appalled', not 'bitter'.

Only one way to play a Liverpudlian: stay calm, let them get angry, which isn't easy when dealing with “some” of them because, if they are not trying to insult our lack of European cups, it's probably their ignorance that insults our intelligence.

Bringing Heysel up usually brings about a victim mentality before they look at you with absolute contempt for bringing up the past that they love to forget, even if they love to go on about.

As Tony says, hold your nerve; when they resort to the 'bitter' tag, you know you've won the argument!!

If someone accuses me of being bitter, they're right.

I feel nothing but loathing and bitterness towards that club.

In a previous post, when I tired to claim, because of my heritage, I was a scouser, I was quickly put down. I got the impression it was all based on having the right accent!

Get them to show their true colours, we already know what they are for “most of them” anyway, but George Mc is right imo, because they despise it when you don't indulge them, but when you do, they think you're fucking stupid, because it's their entitlement anyway.

This is why the Chief Constable must be feeling very stupid right now, whilst the man who knows them better, a scouse Evertonian called Anderson, was called all the names under the sun, for calling them right.

Re the topic - where I live in South Yorkshire, the nearest town is full of morons in RS shirts- never Man U, Chelsea or Man City etc., or the local club. I don't know why, but it may relate to the fact that the town is top (or bottom) of all the other social pathology indicators - educational attainment, drug addiction, pregnancy terminations and so on.

Fans of other teams laugh at them. Any fool can support a big club that wins trophies, if you want to be a glory hunter. I wasn't at all surprised by the scenes at the Liver building, given their past behaviour over the years, as last year when Man City visited. But they are always the victims. I am just waiting for them to dedicate the win to the Hillsborough dead, yet again forgetting to mention Heysel.

Any indiscretions are always someone else's fault, if they are reported at all. I walked along the Pier Head on Friday afternoon and the police were there but chose to ignore dozens of beer-swilling loudmouths until it grew and got out of control. The police had prior warning and failed to act. Just like the attack on Man City's bus. Pathetic.

The Hillsborough card has been played time and again to gain sympathy and is past its use-by date, it seems like the media are cowed into silence or compliance by these eternal victims who are offended by everything that doesn't blow smoke up their backsides.

The club and the council issued a joint statement that said they wholly condemned the inappropriate behaviour, and went on to say the danger of a 2nd peak in the virus still exists, and we all need to work together to make sure we don't undo everything that has been achieved already.

So the club reckon a stabbing, attacking Police officers trying to help the victim, setting fire to a building, and attacking ambulance vehicles is inappropriate behaviour, then if that is the height of their condemnation how poor a response is that. Instead their club should have said the action by OUR fans is an absolute disgrace and we will be liaising with Police to identify anybody involved, and will ban them ever attending another game.

Actually, he did say that, in 1904/05 when that lot won the second division championship (it's in Hansard, honest). He later adapted it in the context of war.

The scenes at the Pier head are in the words of "Donald T." obviously, "fake news" and SOS having seen them, have now categorised them in the same class as "holocaust denial".

Sadly, until control of the media is wrestled out of the hands of dyed in the wool RS supporters, the truth is never going to emerge.

Steve 143
Why would those bastions of truth and honesty SOS organise any campaign?
The guy wasn't even there. Some bitter blue framed him with a cardboard cut out.

Brian a bit pointless identifying thise fuckwits at the Pier Head and banning them from games. Chances are they've never actually been to a game
The only way LFC could be brought to book would be banning all flights from Norway, Spain and Far East

What happened that day was terrible and was a real eye opener to the quality of the stadiums and how we were treated like cattle. We all lost someone that day and will always remember them. Mistakes were made and an accident happened.

But!! To never once hear anybody take any blame from that club has been a disgrace. I'm not going to deny it, we've all gone to games without tickets, we've all been pissed before the game and we've all arrived late. What is a disgrace is that they never ever have admitted this as a cause. Simple question, if people hadn't gone without tickets, hadn't arrived late and hadn't pushed from the rear forcing gates to be opened, would this disaster have happened?

The simple answer to this is NO.

^^ This made me laugh out loud. Brilliant.

I've yet to read the near 150 comments on this thread, and I will, but before I do I simply feel moved to state the following.

Rob touches on it. And I have to say when you're in my position, certifiably a fan from distance, certifiably not a Scouser, my massive distaste for them is this:

They have no concept, as a collective, of personal responsibility.
Ever since I've watched, it's always someone else's fault, they always find a clever argument to excuse poor behavior.

It's disgusting. The world is turning into a point fingers at someone else place. God forbid you look inward. In the sporting landscape, the shite are the Kings and Queens of this 'never my fault' fad sweeping the globe.

Half the "Bitter Blue" arguments you see are Blues flabbergasted at the outlook/actions/opinions of reds, sickened by the tacit acceptance of their definably poor behavior by the those in power - the FA, media, etc.

Couple that with the mindless sheep here who have decided to become "supporters" of them. One guy actually said on NBC when they were gushing over the title finally won: "Some of us only had to wait a few months." Really? Does anyone blame me for instinctively saying, "Fuck off."?

Then there's the pity. The pity I feel that Blues in that seemingly wonderful city of yours are lumped into the same bushel basket with them. Their historically poor actions projected onto Everton due to the Scouser tag, when Everton have only been hard done by due to the actions of them, not us. If you consider it, it's a weird form of latent racism / stereotyping. It's wrong, but it happens. Lumped in with the shite, figuratively and practically literally.

The one thing that gets me is the phrase that the RS like to use "best fans in the land" well aside from the things that Rob has stated,there's also the recent events, bricking the Citeh coach, pushing the locals into fountains in Barcelona, pissing in water fountains, starting a fire at the liver buildings and although I've not been up to GP I've heard Dixie has been defaced although as I say, unconfirmed. Also worth mentioning is the police on friday night that had bottles thrown at them when they were trying to help a lad on the ground. Saw footage of that this morning. Best fans in the land my arse. The worst thing for me is that they think it's ok to laud the Heysel memory by calling us bitter. And the even more laughable thing about that is that when they call them out about it half of them don't even know what you're on about. Fuck the RS,glory hunters most of them

We are all part of the blue family, it doesn't matter which part of the country you come from. During my travels up and down the country and abroad, I've got to know plenty of blues who live nowhere near Liverpool, and never have done, no more so than a couple who travel to every game, home and away, with the West Country blues.

So yes, I do acknowledge that you don't have to be a Scouser to be a proper Evertonian.

Rob has always been extremely supportive of non-Scouse Blues, myself included, on ToffeeWeb. When I say supportive, I mean ridiculously so. Ask Mike Gaynes, a regular contributor, how Rob treated him and looked out for him when he made his pilgrimage.

You have no idea how accurate you are when you speak about the "Scouse tag"

The images of these animals are going around the world. They are what form peoples opinion of what a scouser is.

Go for a job interview outside the City and you are already behind the cue ball as soon as you open your mouth.
Every time we face a Manc team you will have to listen to their songs telling you that you are a resident of "Self pity City". Thats not our doing.
Geordies and Mackems will tell you the you stole their stereo (oh the irony). Brummies and Cockneys some of whom clearly have trouble paying their dental bills, will tell you that you are a scrounger.

Pricks like Rupert Murdoc did much to tarnish the image of people from this City. For years his lies were supported by The Thatcher government. The rest of the nation looked upon us with deep suspicion. why wouldnt they ? Those fuckers across the park have always been hellbent on cultivating the negative image. They take pride in showing everyone what Scallies the are. Its testament to their mentality that they think others see it as an endearing quality. "Everyone love us"

Liverpool is one of the worlds great Citys. Sport, Music, Architecture.. You name it. We didnt get awarded Capital city of culture by accident...but we seem to be eternally taking one step forward and two steps back.
Everytime the REAL Liverpool reveals itself to the world. These c..ts come along and drag its reputation back into the gutter

Slightly off thread, but I do fear the City's strong sense of civic pride may also have contributed to it's decline in standing as the likes of Manchester took over and has effectively become the nation's second city, regardless of what Birmingham thinks. That's not to say the neglect and bad press you mention wasn't to blame (it was), but in some ways, the City became inward looking and spent a period being quite insular for some reason. The irony of that is we were widely regarded as the second city of the Empire and known for our outward looking, sea faring, expeditionary nature reflected in our intellect, art and culture. That always set us apart from our north of England cousins in my opinion.

I say insular as that is the perception non-Liverpool people sometimes have and where the "self-pity" city tag comes from. I don't know how true it is, but my mother always claimed that when looking to establish an air hub in the north of England after the war, Liverpool was the preferred choice as the Speke Aerodrome already existed. Apparently (and again, caveat this was a mother's tale), there was resistance by the local politicians, so they built up Manchester instead. Apparently, Liverpool was a port; it's heritage was in the sea, so we had no interest in this new-fangled air travel thing. If true, that's short-sightedness of the highest order.

In my experience, we've also been the same in our definition of what is a scouser. We literally argue about City of Liverpool limits; remember the Kirkby debate? Is someone seriously going to tell me Kirkby residents are not scousers just because of a council boundary? We were slow to embrace the Scouse nation concept (Liverpool, Knowsley, south Sefton and the Wirral), whereas proud towns in their own right like Bolton, Oldham & Stockport all embraced the Greater Manchester concept much earlier with the City of Manchester as it's hub. I'm bias, but Liverpool could have been what Manchester is now and more, but we lost ground. Partly we can blame Government and economics, but I think Manchester stole a march on us in re-inventing itself more quickly and thinking regionally rather than locally before we did.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Let's get back to slating Lucifer's spawn for what they really are.

The way I treat those Liverpudlians who don't attend games but attempt to give me stick, is to ask them "Wouldn't you love to be able to watch them in the flesh"? or sometimes I would say, "They've put a roof on the Kop you know" my ace however is to say, "You and I have something in common" and when their eyes light up I follow that by saying " I can't remember my first game, and you can't remember your last.

Hi Dave [141] you will no doubt be aware of the fact that I decided not to watch any of the televised games on principle, it's my belief that the decision to stage these games was purely for financial reasons. It's my opinion that the interests of the players and fans had been ignored by the Premier League, Again, as a matter of principle, I will abstain from watching televised League games staged in empty stadiums, accompanied by make believe crowd involvement, and I won't take up my seat in the Park End until it's safe to do so. It won't be a pleasant experience but I will stand by beliefs.

Great to hear from you as always. I've not minded watching as I like examining the technical side of things and tactics. I can't always do that with Everton as I get too emotionally involved and the fan always comes out in me! But I agree with you, it's pretty soulless. I feel "dirty" using this phrase as I fear has been used by our red cousins (link to thread!), but football without the fans really is nothing.

I suppose it's a sad reflection on the rod football has built for it's own back and the dependency it has on it's Sky TV masters. In the short term, they don't actually need match going fans as that is not were they make their money. As long as they get themselves on the screen, they satisfy the cravings of the international Premier League worshippers who pay their subscription. You know, they type who support Liverpool and turn up at the Pier Head with flares even though they've never been to Anfield!!

But, that can only be short term. The reason football has reached such an extended and global audience via Sky is because of the intensity, passion and atmosphere . created by the fans in the grounds.

Danny, the main contributing factor in Manchester eclipsing Liverpool is geographical. Once the M6 was built and connected with other motorway networks Liverpool was out on a limb. Manchester, horrible place that it is, became a transport hub and jobs and businesses gravitated there. It helped accelerate Liverpool's decline.

I was born in Kent, grew up in Ireland, attended Uni in London and have lived in the States since '95. My love affair with Everton started at a young age when my Dad, attempting to avoid paying VAT at the border on a new banjo he bought during a working stint in England, scratched up the case and lashed a bunch of stickers on it. Everton stickers (despite him being Man U, after the great George best). That was it. Born, not manufactured????

I was definitively the only Blue in the villages and glens of Tipperary which made me even prouder of my affinity for the club, which was about to embark upon its most successful period in the '80s. In my early teens I saved up ferry cash and my first game was at Goodison in '87; a 4-0 dismantling of West Ham as "Champions, Champions" rang out from the Street End. Lucky lad. Didn't know how lucky at the time.

Although I didn't have cash or time enough to head north during my London years, I was lucky to see us away down south as often as possible but on moving to the states, found it difficult to keep up with all things Blue in the pre-internet age. The web changed all that in a hurry and once funds allowed, I'd make the pilgrimage back from Alaska every second season taking in more of the City and region every trip. These days, I get to watch every game live on the box and make it back yearly from Oregon when possible. After my family, Everton means everything.

I'm Irish. Simple as. Grew up there with the land, music, sport, banter, harsh Catholic upbringing, troubles and shite weather. Can feel like a bit of a stranger when home these days but it's still who I am. Over here, when folks realize you're Irish you'll often hear "Oh, so am I" and they'll go on to tell you how their grandparents made the trip from County X etc etc. They've been there, visited the homestead, kissed the Blarney stone and had a pint of Guinness and genuinely love the place, their heritage, the people and had a few good days of weather. I don't doubt their love for all things Irish as it's genuine and likely as heartfelt as my feelings for the place. But let's face it, it's born of experiences of being Irish which can't truly be compared.

I love Everton I truly do. But I've always considered myself in a different category to scouse blues who from the day they are born are instantly immersed in the Merseyside ether. It's from this culture that the City clubs were formed and have evolved and I've not lived there through any of it. I've not taken shite at school from urchins, shared joy and grief with family blues over decades, hitch hiked to away games, begged and borrowed to Rotterdam and called in sick to avoid the scum on Monday. I've skipped out of town the day following the derby defeats. I've thrown ale cans at the telly. I've put my wife and kid through misery with my mood swings which have a particular but predictable pattern. But I've not lived the Scouse Evertonian life.

And so perhaps we need to put to bed the often debated term "Proper Evertonian". We need a term to acknowledge that there is a difference between those of us who suffer the Everton condition from afar and those who do so in the shadows of Goodison. Perhaps "Scouse Evertonian" would be the nod that might say it all.

As much as I enjoy laughing at them, the reality is that football clubs all have obnoxious twats following them, and they happen to be the ones that shout loudest.

I stopped going to watch Everton because of the feral behaviour of some of the lads in the stands. We are not immune from criticism.

The common myth is that I don't like Liverpool and that is totally correct...however my best friends who are fans of that club are decent folk and good friends, the manager seems a good guy and the team are talented and deserve all the accolades. they have purchased wisely in the transfer market, coached well and built a side over a number of years against a solid plan, which is what so many clubs, like my own have failed to do consistently what I dislike is the club itself, the supporters, the city and the general arrogance and disdain that has been shown to the rest of the footballing community and here's why

Getting the entire English game banned from Europe for six years for their fans being directly responsible killing innocent people at Heysel and the fact that it hardly ever gets mentioned every year, compared to Hillsborough ✅

Denying a host of English clubs the opportunity to play in Europe competition, some of whom have never had the chance since and probably never will again ✅

Damaging the English National team as a result and causing years of self inflicted hurt to this country's international standing in world football ✅

For their part in the worst footballing disaster this country has ever seen, Hillsborough, and for totally denying ANY responsibility for the outcomes that day, totally disregarded the behavior of a section of their travelling support some of whom were under the influence of drink and arrived late to the match, instead waging a thirty year legal war on commanding police officer on the day in an attempt to totally exempt themselves the police were wrong, no doubt, but trying to portray Scousers as angels come on ✅

Bullying? Heartbreak? Shit? Give me a break...keep waving your flags and pretend the past never happened, pretend the rest of football doesn't remember

The karma of course is that you celebrated your first title in thirty years in an empty stadium with piped in crowd noise, and then got to watch as your own supporters, the ones you have excused for years, burn their own city, piss in and smash up shop fronts, attack the police and injure several bystanders . all in the middle of a global pandemic that has taken nearly 50k lives in this country alone to date I hope you watched and I hope you were proud of what you represented

You may be the self styled champions of everything, but to the rest of the football community, you'll always be remembered as the stain on our game that we'll never be able to rub clean one of the biggest and richest football clubs in the world that has spent the last thirty years massively underachieving, year after year, excuse after excuse for failure, spending millions trying to rekindle past eras. always painting yourselves as the underdog wallowing in the ‘Thatcher Years', using it as an excuse to boo the national anthem, peddle idle anti establishment bullshit, time and time again and claim their ridiculous scouse independence from the rest of the country

Who can forget (most of Liverpool has convieniently done so) the clubs lack of any sort of response or measurable action in the Mason Holgate racism case involving Roberto Furmino, the various Luiz Suarez racist incidents or the Jon Flanagan domestic violence scandal...the arrogance of the club, believing they have been wronged by history and they somehow are above reproach is one of the many reasons the footballing community holds them in such contempt and will continue to do so somewhere in Anfield there is a huge fucking carpet with a load of shit swept under it they have to keep inviting Jan Molby in to sit on the lump to squash it down

And so, you got there finally...and when you did what happened? Your fans set fire to your own town hall and totally disgraced your city and we looked on, unsurprised at yet another incident that the media will skirt over, choosing instead to wheel out Phil Thompson, Graeme Souness, ‘Kenny' and ‘Cara' to wax lyrical about how their pain and suffering has been extinguished. try getting battered five nil at Oldham away in league one and you might realise what pain and suffering actually feels like.

You may want to forget the truth, but we never will

I agree that many of the people who revel in the success of clubs, would require an A to Z book, to direct them to the home grounds of the clubs involved. I can honestly say that if the TV companies and football authorities fell out with each other and football was never featured again, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, because I get my enjoyment from my participation, slight though it may be.

You hit the nail square on the head "Glory hunters" go back a bit and ask anyone who knew sod all about football who they support it was always Man Utd when they got relegated they were still on the back page of every newspaper. The wheel has turned any clueless bastard now "supports" Liverpool and if the Liverpool canteen manageress farts it's on the back page of every rag.

pre 80's we all mixed together at derbies and you could have some banter then their heads were inserted up their arses and Heysel caused the great divide with the Everton team who were their equal and would have surpassed them broke up thanks to them. Now I hate their name being spoken I hate them being on telly because my local fills up with the scumbags who you never see til the next time on telly. I can't go in my own local because I hate them with a passion and have no wish to be anywhere near them. They are like a cancer that is attacking all the good in football with their superiority complex and always the victims (fortunately VAR proves they are no victims they are well looked after).

'Aegrotat' is a term used when a degree is awarded to a student who has not taken exams because of illness and thus has not actually qualified, but has been awarded the degree because the university felt generous.

It is thus not a proper or real degree and has not actually been earned by its bearer.

Since this year's Premiership was curtailed by illness, and was given under very irregular circumstances, I think that Liverpool's 2019-20 Premiership should be forever labelled "aegrotat", thus:

Year Winners
2015-2016 Leicester City
2016-2017 Chelsea
2017-2018 Manchester City
2018-2019 Manchester City
2019-2020. Liverpool (aegrotat)

The club's name should be muck.

I was agreeing with you! I was just trying to make the point that unfortunately (and I despair like you), but right now in the short term, the Premier League (and others) don't need the match day going fans. They just need to get themselves on the screen to get the TV revenue. That's the harsh reality whether we like it or not (and I don't).

I'm with you, participation in the game is vital to enjoying it. In terms of my personal priorities; 1: playing (those days are gone sadly!!). 2: coaching - doing less of that these days. 3: watching - preferably in a stadium but like many, increasingly on the screen these days.

I've probably had the fortune to see this from different angles. I was born in Liverpool; my family are from Liverpool and it's my home city. Yet as a result of my father being in the British Army, I spent a period of my childhood growing up in Germany (great football education itself) before returning to Liverpool. It's all about timing as they say, and again, I was fortunate that this coincided with our glorious 80s hey day, for which I had a season ticket.

I then joined the Army myself, so have witnessed the subsequent decades from afar and now I reside in London, which as a purist football supporter living amongst the most aggressive "in your face" support bases I've experienced, poses its own challenges!!

So, to your point, I get it; there are different dynamics and challenges being an Evertonian in the City as opposed to being a remote Evertonian. But ultimately, and to coin Rob's earlier phrase, we are all part of the same blue family and equals.

"I'm not bitter... I fucking hate you... They are totally separate emotions".

Sean - I've said this to my brother-in-laws (both Kopites), City are still the best team in the league. Liverpool are just extremely effective at what they do. Yes, the league doesn't lie and they are worthy Champions by a mile, but depending on what you like to watch, I'd take City's style every day. It will be interesting to see how Liverpool cope with injuries and a run of poor form as to be fair, they've been blessed in those areas. And Klopp's record at Dortmund shows that when things are going well he's fist pumpingly inspirational. When they don't, he goes into meltdown. Watch this space.

I'm not that bothered about footy right now (honest). Watching the game without a crowd on TV doesn't bother me that much, because I mostly concentrate on the pitch whenever I watch football, but it's obvious the lack of noise has taken away the emotion, and the game has become like the latter stages of an international tournament, whenever I watch, probably because of the slower pace?

Like you, Paul, I miss travelling away, but hopefully once we get a better team, I will also be on the road/train, every other week, because there's not many things better than being amongst the “travelling blue army” and some of the loyalist supporters in the world!

A lot of talk about Leicester going into local lockdown. If this happens, I doubt the Leicester team will be allowed to travel.

Any connection with that club is the kiss of death I'm afraid.

Yeah, much better birds. Real ladies. Always tits first.

It also implies no Liverpool supporter is from the City. Again, this is not true as Liverpool have supporters from the city.

After I read the article, it annoyed me and is one of reasons I read ToffeeWeb less now.

Amazing lifestyle; great diving, fishing, hunting, kayaking. Would jump in the skiff for a weekend and claim a beach to yourself. Had a physio practice up there and after 15 years decided on change and moved to Portland in Oregon.

Loads I miss about Alaska, and some I don't like the isolation and the weather. The people in the SE of the state are special. It's a different world to the lower 48.

I haven't done loads of travelling, but no matter what area of the UK I've been, Europe and even in India and America, if I've only seen one football shirt, it's been you know who – they are everywhere. The most overweight embarrassing football fans abroad I've ever seen and again been you know who.

Even service stations in the Midlands have more LFC shirts than, WBA, Villa, Wolves, Birmingham put together.

However, a spokesman claimed that this was down to the fact that, for most of them, English is not their first language.

Unfortunately Mom was prevented from boarding the flight in Shanghai due to a kerfuffle between China, South Korea and Delta Airlines that would take about five paragraphs to explain. Suffice it to say that we now hope to bring her back home in a few weeks.

Thanks again, y'all, for keeping me cheered up during this time.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program, the Rip-The-RS-Fest.

96 of their fans got there early to get a good spec. Thousands didn't. The police should have delayed the start - they didn't. If it has started on time with those same thousands outside there would have been a riot. The police panicked. Those thousands rushed in and crushed to death 96 of their fellow supporters. And the Scum newspaper helped fuel their sympathy by saying that they robbed fellow supporters as they lay dead/dying on the pitch.

Do I have sympathy for the friends and relatives of the 96? Too right. Am I sad the 96 were killed. 100%. They did not "deserve" that. Totally Innocent victims.

But let us put every percent of the blame on everyone other than the thousands of supporters who rushed into the ground? There will be those today, aged 50+, knowing they were ones who didn't have a ticket, who had been for a bevvy or two and waited until 2:40 to get in, and who rushed into the ground when the gates were suddenly opened and were part of the mob who crushed their fellow supporters and should feel some sort of guilt for their actions. But no, it was 100% the fault of the police and the officials at the ground.

I would so love to have the money to throw away to buy a house opposite their ground and paint it with a memorial to the Heysel 39. So, every time they played, they would be reminded of 1985.

It's the right of every individual to follow the fortunes of the club of his or her choice. I use the word 'follow' rather than 'support' because, to me, 'support' requires the attendance at games.

I think that the influence of TV has, over the years, given rise to the number of people who latch on to the winning teams, and considers watching them from afar, and buying a top or scarf, entitles them to call themselves supporters of those particular clubs.

I have been accused recently of talking "Bollocks" and I may be in danger of doing so again, but I believe that, in pre-TV days, a 'football mad' lad in Barnsley would have supported Barnsley, and his hero would have been Tommy Taylor, who later lost his life in the Munich disaster. I haven't been to Barnsley for some years but I feel sure that, if I went now, there would be lads wearing the tops of Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, etc. and I firmly believe that it's down to the influence of TV.

The only thing I'm bothered about is Everton getting back to the top again. With Carlo, we may have a chance. Stop worrying what that lot over the park do.

I support Everton and follow them. Our out-of-town or overseas supporters are as big as Blues as you or I. The only difference is we are lucky to be here. In fact, you could say supporting from afar is even more devotional!

Some of our out-of-town, overseas supporters were of an age and started supporting us in our heydays. They have stuck with us because it's in them. They buy the kits and stuff from the Club and raise their kids blue.

I cannot agree that you can only be a supporter if you actually go to the match. If you say that, then surely I'm more of an Evertonian than anyone not born in Everton.

I hope you do that season with Everton mate, and I'd definitely describe you as a proper Evertonian, if you're prepared to give so much up, to watch your team!

Mike G, I'm made up for you mate, that's great news!

I watch them from my armchair and want them to win as much as the next Blue, but I don't consider myself in the same league as blue scouser.

I support my local sports team.

I sent a cheeky little email earlier to Spirit of Shankly asking where is the mayor's apology after demanding one from him when they got the arse over his initial comments about playing Liverpoo's potential title winning game against Everton at a neutral venue. The reply;

"Thank you for your comments and thoughts" that's it.

Typical rs

It's been waaaaay too long a separation.

You shouldn't be accused of "talking bollox" John; your views are always very well presented and they are your views.

But, I'm allowed to agree and disagree. Your 'follow' versus 'support' categorisation is an interesting one. As my previous, I've sat in different camps. When I lived in Liverpool and had a season ticket, I too judged people's support by match day attendance. But that was in the 1980s and a very different landscape now.

Conversely, being the son of a soldier and later a soldier myself, I spent many years without regular access to Goodison Park or Everton match day fixtures. I guess by that metric, I have followed Everton for large parts of my life rather than supported them.

Using that principle, I would argue that those who "follow" do so at considerably more cost than those who 'support'. A trip to Goodison these days pretty much costs me upwards of 𧶀 when I add everything up. I have a lot of respect for those who both follow and support Everton Football Club.

I obviously haven't put my point across as clearly as I should have, and for that I apologise. I'm struggling to find a way to express myself without insulTting anyone but, as you say, some have supported us since our hey-days, and I think that confirms my claim that TV coverage plays a large part in their choice.

I take my hat off to those who have stuck with us through the darker days and yes they are loyal Evertonians, and technically by purchasing club merchandise, they are supporting the club.

I should have made it clear that it was my belief that some people attach themselves to flavour of the month clubs, and it isn't confined to overseas fans. It happens in our own backyard. There are clubs in towns and cities that are crying out for support but TV has, over the years, tempted possible supporters away.

Like yourself, I too was born in Everton, we lived at 75 Everton Road at the time, and no it doesn't make me more of an Evertonian than anyone else. I know I've probably made a pig's ear of this but apologies once again, there was no offence intended.

I suspected in a way it might have been or could be misunderstood. As I said, we are lucky we are in a position to get to a match.

I really respect the lads who live afar or even locals who possibly can't afford or medically can't go the game. Especially the out-of-town lads who have stuck with us through thick and thin!

“Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

There's nothing technical about it. I admire you guys that have the opportunity to go to all home games. I especially admire those that get to far-flung places like Brighton and Southampton.

I regularly read your posts as they are always respectful. On this occasion, though, I respectfully disagree with you on two fronts.

(1) There is no grade or class difference in those supporting or following Everton. We are all Evertonians.

(2) We haven't been a flavour of the month club for such a long time. Pity that we might have had a few quid more in the kitty for team improvement.

I'll sleep easy tonight, by following I meant following by newspaper reports, those who actually follow the club around the country deserve medals.

The last time I went to a derby game at Anfield was almost 20 years ago, and as I walked along Priory Road, there were coaches from Cardiff, Bristol, Carlisle, Exeter and many other places, each one carrying the Liverpool Supporters Club sign.

They were all from places that were crying out for support, and I still maintain that TV played a major part in the decline of lower League attendances. I admire the supporters who stayed loyal to those clubs.

Great thread and great views shared. Threads like this prove what Howard said; we are the most knowledgable set of fans. We have opinions. Sometimes we will disagree with each other, but we know football and will have those opinions.

Back on thread, unlike our brainwashed cousins who conform to the narrative regardless. We are above that.

Good night blue brothers & sisters.

I hope that I have made my position a little clearer, I meant no offence to anyone. There are supporters in the city of Liverpool, Red and Blue, who wear their scarves and sit in pubs on match days, and that's their idea of loyalty. I trust that you understood that the main theme of my post was the influence that TV had in the modern game.

Hillsborough happened because there was only a small number of turnstiles for their fans, it built up dangerously so the Police opened the exit gates to let fans in and clueless Duckenfield didn't give the order to close the tunnel to the already overcrowded central pens and direct the fans to the pretty much empty side pens, not because they turned up late and drunk.

Don't care what anyone says, that paragraph in post #180 doesn't belong on any Everton site imo.

I know that this is off-topic but I have some relatives named Halligan. They are descendants of James Halligan, born 1841 in Kilcommon, Claremorris, Co Mayo and died in Ormskirk in 1913.
Any connection?

mred_2u at Hotmail dot com

I considered leaving the Hillsborough part out, but thought it would be interesting to post exactly what a fan of another club thinks of Liverpool fans. In any case, the post doesn't really contain many mistruths, as some Liverpool fans where under the influence of alcohol and many did turn up late.

However, Duckinfield and others should have been charged with criminal negligence at the very least and the ground was not fit for purpose. The disproven Sun allegations centred around picking pockets etc. I would not have posted anything like that.

You should've left that bit well out as you should well know it contains some of the allegations which have long been laid to rest.

I dislike them as much as any Blue, but peddling that on any Everton site is well out of order.

As I said, I was born in Liverpool, as were my father and grandfather. My son was born down south and, when the time came, he had the choice to follow his local team or carry on the family tradition. He chose wisely!

Ironically, his first game was a 4-2 win against Sheffield United. Mine had been a 4-2 win against Sheffield Wednesday in 1960. He has never for one moment lost the faith, he is no less an Evertonian than his father, grandfather or great grandfather.

On a separate point, a family member who works at the Royal came home from work on Saturday night after a day treating celebratory stabbings and beatings!

LCC, in a fit of parochial jealousy...maybe not having forgiven the mancs for building the ship canal in the 1890s?...said no, we'll develop Speke thanks. Had plans commissioned for a new 'super runway' and terminal, only to baulk at the cost.

In the early 60s, they built the cut-price abortion that is still there now, which was out of date before it was finished.

'We' now have Speke... oh yes, sorry, they rebranded it, named it after a failed artist, a 3rd grade poet, 2nd grade musician, but 1st grade world wide 'Icon'

Hardly anybody bar locals know the names Speke or Ringway now - but everybody knows Manchester International Airport.

The only time I've had the pleasure to watch the blues live was against the Brisbane Roar in 2010. On that night, I was told by 2 gentlemen wearing blue jerseys from Merseyside that I wasn't a real fan as I wasn't from Merseyside.

I've watched hundreds and hundreds of games sitting up till 5am then heading to work barely functioning, spent 10s of thousands of dollars on kits and merchandise, convinced my wife to allow me to have Everton as my sons middle name, and never wavered in my support.

Me not being born on Merseyside doesn't make me any less of an Evertonian... in fact it shows I was born to be blue, I was called to be part of our past, present and future as no-one I ever knew supported us.

I was the first of my family to have my heart turned blue but I will not be the last. Our postcode does not make us who we are, brothers and sister in blue now based worldwide all with one love the same as you.

Excellent post and spot on I am glad you ignored the two arseholes who said that to you.

Full respect to you, your family and all overseas Blues, great Evertonians and real supporters, every single one.

Shankly with his stupid quotes such as ‘If Everton were playing down the bottom of my garden, I'd draw the curtains' started it.

That was followed by Yard Dog Yeats and Tommy Smith kicking anything that moved, Phil Thompson waving two fingers at the Street End in November 1973, Emlyn Hughes singing ‘Everton are tragic' in front of thousands at St George's Hall in 1977, Terry McDermott pissing on the crowds at the same gathering, Benitez with his ‘small club' jibe and Gerrard acting as self appointed referee on numerous occasions. I could go on.

Try as I might I cannot bring myself to hate Klopp. Despite my best efforts I have yet to find a player in the current Liverpool squad I can truly detest.

That leaves their fans, the thousands who go to the match with their stupid flags and banners and the millions of obese, drunk, bandwagon hopping, TV watching, glory seekers. Yes, every club has their knobheads but some have more of them.

Liverpool's history of arrogant, trouble making abroad epitomised English football's problem over many decades. Their chant ‘We're the best behaved supporters in the land' was laughable as their behaviour lay waste to many a pub, coach or railway carriage.

Heysel is steadily but surely being airbrushed from history. The fans have perfected the art of blaming everybody but themselves for their hooliganism. If the police had intervened on Friday at the Pier Head, there would have been a riot and guess who would have been blamed? Not the fans but the police.

The incessant moaning and groaning about UEFA's choice of final venues, stadia, travel arrangements, ticketing, hotel prices and so on is tiresomely reflective of their too well developed sense of entitlement.

I long for the day when the bandwagon stops rolling but fear that day may be many years away. With their much increased financial advantage, it would require mismanagement on a grand scale for them to fall back to their standards of 10 years ago. I can't see that happening while Klopp is in charge.

I've never taken offence, look at Goodison Park, it just underlines the statement. Again what Shankly said decades ago, or take it as nothing. Emlyn Hughes in 1977 wasn't called for.

It's Dalglish who I can't stand and the media fawn all over him, but life is life and you move on.

Surely it is not too much trouble or expense for you to hop on a flight from Brisbane every 2 weeks to visit Goodison, especially as Sky TV don't change the dates on a regular basis????!!!!!

You are no less of an Evertonian than me, because I can get to the match without a stop at Singapore or Dubai. (I do need to find a car park space, however.)

On the question of being a blue supporter, we Evertonians are born as you all know, doesn't matter where you are from or how many games you have attended, it's now in your DNA regardless.

Keep safe everyone. Remember, every dog will have its day.

I have nothing to add to the many views on the main subject nor the off-topic post. All entertaining..

I will say though the day we can all put our hatred aside we just might get what we long for, Success and more silverware than those in red...

It will never happen though...

Wonderful news about your reunion, after way too long a time. I'm delighted for you both and have nothing but admiration for your fortitude. I hope you complete the family reunion shortly.

Keep safe and happy.

I'll admit that they are a great team at the moment and Klopp is a superb manager (although he lost any respect I had for him when he ran on the pitch after the Pickford blunder). I've worn my EFC shirt, as I always do, since last week with even more pride. I'm not from the city, Wigan born-and-bred but have lived in the Midlands for the last 24 years. This club is a massive part of my life. My late dad was an Evertonian. Both my brothers are Everton fans. My 82-year old mum is an Evertonian. My 9-year old lad is an Everton fan who has never even seen us beat that lot.

We might have a shite midfield and have witnessed some absolute dross down the years but there's only one club with any sense of morality in the city. I'd sooner be on the same side as the likes of Big Nev, Speedo Mick, every single one of the underrated 80s team, the many past legends who represent our club so well and the many brilliant contributors to this website than spend a single day amongst their glory-hunting plastic fans.

Funny how the RS I worked with was the first to tell me of Ancelotti's tax affairs and Moise Kean's indiscretions but brushed off their fans' deplorable behaviour as "a few idiots". Never their fault is it?

Anyway, here's what Big Nev said:

"For all the people who gave me stick last night. Everton FC is not built on hate, just great people a great history of great football. Who respect others achievements and try to surpass them. With hate you lose focus on what's important. Everton"

Great to read all these comments.

It's very clear they are really not popular among football fans in general. And with good reason.

A more arrogant, unpleasant, history rewriting, truth avoiding bunch of dough balls you'll ever meet.

It's very telling that they were all over social media posting well done pics and all that shit, but the same people haven't said a peep about their behaviour sInce.

I'm sure the BBC even had reports of the trouble at Pier Head as it as being football fans, before they changed it to Liverpool. That must have hurt them to criticise their favourite club.

As others have mentioned above, the only way to shut them up is for us to start to winning things.

Bottom line is we're better, not bitter.

Keep the faith blues, we will win trophies again, and when we do, we will celebrate properly and without damaging our club and the city.

Did the Hooters girls you had staying for three months clean up before they left mate?

On the plus side, we have a manager and maybe Big Dunc who truly want and believe we can seriously challenge. So, in spite of the ineptitude and buffoonery around them, let's hope they can find a way to let the good time's roll. It's a long shot but our only hope.

In an open letter to fans in the Liverpool Echo, the German said: "I am a human being and your passion is also my passion, but right now the most important thing is that we do not have these kind of public gatherings.

"We owe it to the most vulnerable in our community, to the health workers who have given so much and whom we have applauded, and to the police and local authorities who help us as a club not to do this.

And I believe that it was also printed in the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet, the London Evening Standard, and also the Beijing Daily, plus the Herts Advertiser

Like many Bluenoses on here, I am always amazed by fans like yourself who go to great lengths to watch the Blues either live or on TV at all hours of the morning. Brilliant. I live five minutes from Goodison Park, always have done coming from different directions. It's been so easy to get there and see the game, the hard part many times has been watching the match!!

So give yourself a pat on the back for your efforts to follow The Toffees, you are definitely “One of us”, never doubt it and here's “Two Fingers” for the two who told you different.

Like many on here, I'm lucky enough to have seen success and great football whereas our poor young fanbase have seen no success at all. I'm heartily sick of all the near misses and bottling in big games as I'll bet we all are.

And I can't stand it when the media show us such little respect, although after all these years of winning nothing – while the likes of Swansea, Birmingham, Blackburn and some others have – I suppose that's inevitable in the current times.

I have faith in Carlo to put us there as long as he's given the time. I can't abide LFC with a vengeance, but I hate our fall from grace even more. Our great fans deserve to be at the top table again, and when Carlo gets us there then we'll be on the front pages of the Echo for the right reasons.

And one last point – best wishes to Mike G and his family on his good news, it's been a long wait. Come On You Blues!

They hate us because we don't let them forget, but it's worrying, because journalists are powerful people, and like referees, once they have an agenda be careful, especially because there are now so many of them on the same side, in this dangerously phoney corridor of power.

Everton now have a quality manager with the right pedigree and if we don't get back to a high position next season then I don't know if we ever will in my lifetime.
We have some real quality in the squad with some decent youngsters and with a season behind him Carlo should now be in a position to move forward.

I also read the spat on twitter between horrible Holt and some Evertonians, I see he trotted out in 1 reply bitters. Seem this is the only response they give rather than answer the question asked. I am afraid the press is full of them whether it be Andy Dunn or Tony Evans or Henry Winter, and a lot more beside.

Television is also full of their supporters, hence why the screens are full of their ex players. I could only imagine the write up that Everton or Man Utd or Man City fans would have got had it been supporters of these clubs that had carried out this appalling behaviour.

Look what can't be argued is they have been the best team in the Premier League this season, and followed last season's Champions League win and 2nd in the league, a great achievement.

I think what annoys most other clubs' fans is their fans claiming that them winning the league means more to them than the rest of us. Their other claim that its back in its rightful place, what first time they have won it so by that very nature it cant be back where its never been.

I always use the quote from Dr France when comparing Evertonians to Liverpool supporters. We have humility, they have arrogance; we have loyalty, they have entitlement; and we have art, they have pornography.

But this is the hold LFC seem to have over the press and TV. If anyone calls them out then they all mobilise to shout us down. Is it any coincidence that we have Klopp's ‘open letter' out today, right after the Pier Head disgrace?

And Tony Evans has rushed out a piece in the Independent which starts off ‘can't defend Liverpool fans' then moves right on to blaming Joe Anderson and the lockdown, and inevitably references Hillsborough (but not Heysel of course).

By next week, it will all have become our fault. Red propaganda at its worst – no humility or sense of shame, aided and abetted by the media. Tony is right, it is worrying, and it'll get worse.

And Joe (271), thanks for your mention!

Everton now have a quality manager with the right pedigree and if we don't get back to a high position next season then I don't know if we ever will in my lifetime.

We have some real quality in the squad with some decent youngsters and with a season behind him Carlo should now be in a position to move forward.

I would also argue that there is an element of politics at work too, what better way to 'sell' UK goods than to have the use of a worldwide household name as your flag bearer?

City won the league last season along with two other trophies, they weren't the recipients of the media's praise and hype to the extent that Herr Klopp's team have received. Unfortunately, we as their closest geographical rivals have to also bear the brunt of the media's wrath, if as a club or a fan base, we dare to challenge the coverage or ask legitimate questions.

There has to be a reason for this unwarranted promotion and adoration of a single club, and I'd wager, it has nothing to do with football.

"Everton are shite, bluenose cunts etc". Sad. Even in victory, they're never happy.

My response. I just smiled. That fucked up his day!!

This thread has made me feel a whole lot better as there are people out there that feel like me!

Delighted to hear you've determined to visit the Old Lady while she's still around. I was a Blue for 32 years before I got to make that pilgrimage, and it was one of the great pleasures of my life.

As Dave #267 says, you will be warmly welcomed. Just make your plans known here on TW and you'll have lots of volunteers ready to step up and make sure you are treated like a visiting dignitary. Dave is one of the primary ambassadors!

The stupid bastards have taken away so much of that credibility with their actions, whilst the PR machine will salvage the reputation of the worlds greatest supporters, once again!

Given the gradual devaluing of both these competitions over the last 20 years, I just wonder whether winning one of them is still seen as warranting the traditional town-centre trophy parade (doubtless our friends across the park would, with their customary condescension and arrogance, say not).

I did a screengrab in case I was seeing wrong.

Now I'll admit that the owners of this site may not be responsible so I can only assume some warped algorithm has seen the amount of mentions of "them" on mainstream media (no links to those stories have been clicked) and is now assuming everyone wants "their" memorabilia?

Aaarghhh!

A long-suffering Evertonian and Tofeewebber, first time contributor.

Maybe football has replaced religion in our increasingly secular society and therefore the identity issues that usually accompany religious beliefs have taken hold of the fans.

Or it could be that success on a fairly regular basis makes some people arrogant and unbearable?

Born a Blue, Live. Blue, Die a Blue!

Look at the Suarez/Evra incident and the number of their fans who refused to believe that one of their players could racially abuse someone, despite him being found guilty. The club's own revolting reaction showed that the apple is rotten to the core.

When Mason Holgate thought he'd been racially abused by Firminho, their immediate reaction was to claim Holgate only did it to avoid being sent off and they went looking at his historic tweets. Anyone who watched the game and the way Mason reacted can see that he thought he'd heard something but the shite's fans suddenly became lip-reading experts.

Klopp when the ball boy asked him if he'd enjoyed the World Cup final last year is an other example of how the sham operates. The self-styled ‘man of the people and all-round nice guy' mask slipped until he realised that there was a camera on him and side this big, toothy bright-white smile was suddenly back on display.

They way they react in victory: without an ounce of civility or decency sums them up to me: a more disgusting and vile club you are unlikely to ever encounter.

More to come in that particular story. The next tie he stares them down will be in victory rather than defiance.

Mike

Soon Your Mum will be back too and you can breath easy - Actually the rest of TW can breath easy to. You only have to see the posts to realise, you were never facing this alone.

And thanks also to all who shared their good wishes.

We all know the press told lies and spun the fuck out of hilsborough, but this is a horrible article and only acceptable if you're a snide.

Disgusting Evans, this is an article that belongs in the trash that was left at the Pier Head last Friday night, when will this indulgence ever end?

Liverpool Fans Not Solely At Blame

Evans jumps through several hoops in a very convoluted attempt to diminish and distance Liverpool supporters from blame.

I believe I write of the same journo who I praised a few months ago for his very honest first hand account of the menacing thuggery he was part of at Heysel that fateful day.

More recent articles like this one suggests to me he is very much part of the fawning press perpetuating any number of myths about our loveable 'bours.

A shocking read this.

As one if my questions I asked in what year were LFC formed and provided a multiple choice of answers; 1878, 1892, 1901, 1830. The only one who got it right was my daughter (a blue)! No surprise really I suppose as neither of the 2 blokes in question actually go to the game and would need a sat nav to find mordor.

Both were crowing on Thursday night though. - despite the fact I have welcomed them into my home during lockdown and where they have been since March (lots of reasons I would rather not go into on here).

I am proud, in fact honoured, to be an Evertonian and always have been. The way EFC gave its support over Hillsborough is astonishing given what the RS have given us in return. But that support shows our class in my opinion.

I very much doubt if our supporters would behave the way that shower of twats have over the past few days. History shows that during our glory days of the 80s we behaved admirably. For evidence of this watch the CWC final and listen to Brian Cloughs comments about how well behaved our support was.

I detest that club and it's gobshite supporters, if we are the bitter ones why are they so obsessed with us?

He is basically saying Anderson is equally to blame along with their rioting fans. Whilst he goes further than most of their cult and accepts that the fans must shoulder some of the blame, he can't quite bring himself to apportion it all to them and tries to deflect by dishing it out to various other third parties.

At one point he says their fans will always be under the spotlight more because of their history and I thought for a second he was going to reference and acknowledge Heysel but obviously no, he didn't.

Also no mention of the fact that their entire squad had a party at Formby Hall on Thursday night and splashed it all over social media which may have encouraged their fans to think that it was okay to do likewise.

Our ex-brickie and his mates at SOS have set their stalls out. The brickie is supposed to represent ALL the people of Liverpool. I think this episode shows that's not the case; hopefully it will be remembered next time he's looking to extend his free meal ticket.

As regards the bastions of truth and honesty, well they've always been a joke.

I've just been going through the history of football, and I see a lot of posts on ToffeeWeb, by people ready to throw in the towel, or never believing that “our day” will come again.

Well, only three teams have won the League in both the 1800s and the 1900s, so it's a race between Everton, Aston Villa and Sunderland to be the first team to win the league in 3 different centuries. This is an absolutely unique thing we should be putting all our efforts into, and something Moshiri and Usmanov need to be told immediately!

I like that one Tony.

That would be a good one to land and brag about.

I think you're right about Hancock – awfully nice but dim. Boris will hang him out to dry over Covid-19 when he's no longer a useful shield for him.

Writer. Radical. Scouse Separatist. Football drinker. Beer hooligan.

Says it all apart from his fanatical support for the RS. The media is biased and poisoned throughout and he's a prime example. The Victims always find someone to blame and they've done it again.

"Everyone who knew me and saw the picture knew I wouldn't do something like that so they helped share posts that said it wasn't me. "I was told I should die and was called all sort of disgusting things but I felt physically sick that people who think I would do something like that.

"I have been an Everton fan all my life so I wouldn't even have been there, I was in bed, but regardless, I would not even think of committing a crime like that."

EFC fan wrongly Accused

Of course we don't know which club the person who originally posted the mistaken idenity supports or indeed whch side of the football divide issued the threats, regardless, it may well have been a genuine mistake by whoever posted the picture.

Nevertheless Dr. David France would seem to have the measure of the rivalry in recent times when he said “Everton versus Liverpool is humility vs arrogance, loyalty vs entitlement and art vs pornography”

in the everton-head-office.thread.

Bitter

Anyway to all you better blues, bitter blues, true blues and everything blue our time will come the good guys always triumph just keep the faith..

Snorting beak off a bobbies helmet. Say no more

Accrington Stanley (previously Accrington), Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke City (previously Stoke), West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers).

4 groups of 3, play each team home and away, using the preferred formation of the time, 2-3-5...(although this formation perhaps not good as a pre-season exercise)
Group leaders contest the semis and so on etc

No chance of Liverpool winning that one...having said that we probably wouldn't either.

It is a reflection on modern society, sadly. Doesn't excuse the bellwhiffs. Pricks.

To cause the trouble and problems around the world that they're fans have caused including getting us banned out of Europe because of their behaviour is galling.

It's always someone else's fault and never theirs. I've had conversations? with some redshite fans about this and they know how they behave and then play the ‘woe is us' card.

I agree with some others, the best answer is to build a team to dominate the Premier League and Europe for years to come. It may not happen in my lifetime, but at least I have seen some glory years and great football with Everton.

Tony (#322) - Carragher has in more ways than one shown himself to be a "proper fan"!

Completely forgot the detail that back in the UK pubs are still closed Dave.

Are Liverpool pubs likely to reopen on 4th July as publicised, or is that at the discretion of local councils or the landlords themselves?

Are you still self-isolating yourself or able to leave the house a bit more now?

I'm sure you'll look after yourself and whatever comes your way when the Monday night sessions return!

Good health!

There have been a few pubs around town that have been serving drinks at the door, quite legit I believe, as long as you don't go in. I've been having a few drinks in the house just to keep my hand in, nothing serious.

When it starts on Saturday, I can see plenty of problems. As I said earlier, when the ales in (too many), the wit is definitely out with lots of people, they become narks. Mind you, plenty get happy with drink, but still foolish.

When my wife gets the okay from the health people, I'll be having a go.

As Dave says, the pubs are due to open on Saturday, and I think the beer gardens from Monday.

It's down to the individual pubs as to whether they open, or maybe the company when they run tenancies.

This has been trailed for several weeks and you've had the usual publications telling people it's almost their national duty to go for a pint. The same ones banging on about Getting Our Summer Back, and then wondering why we saw some of the scenes at the resorts and beaches last week. There may be more such articles before Saturday, but hopefully some sense has been learned.

Then of course we got the scenes in Liverpool at the back end of last week.

Saturday opening is potentially a dangerous, volatile situation. The days of big groups going out mob handed for a session are now very much over, with social distancing, and the rules that have massively reduced pub capacity,but that reality may not have registered widely perhaps.

My son, Andy and John his business partner have taken the decision not to open their little micropubs on Saturday, and will probably leave it until the middle of the following week. They can now get a maximum of 20 people in each and have the legal requirement to be able to manage it for the safety of their team and the customers.

Maybe they're wrong, but I guess time will tell. But they're playing it cautiously, and I don't blame them.

They're still selling Takeaways, including pints at the door.

Hmmm. Asking for trouble methinks.

Dunno if you can view this video posted on FB, but it nicely sums up what landlords and bar staff are likely to face on re-opening.

Don't Be This Guy On 4th July

Andy and partner are probably wise to wait to re-open mid-week rather than on a weekend after a 3 month lock-out.

Very funny that mate. I'll forward that on and I suspect it may well appear as part of their communications.

I've sort of been waiting for Saturday to be called Independence Day, by some tabloid numpty, but maybe they'll apply a little restraint, although they may miss out on some nice Sunday finger wagging and tutting.

How are things going with you and your wife?

And sadly you know it's going to be so true of some people.

As for me and the missus, this virus just keeps coming back for a nibble. I have 3-4 absolutely 100% days. Full of energy, clear thinking, in top gear. Then out of nowhere - BAM! Totally floored again for a few days.

In my case it is a sore throat (how does a frigging sore throat come and go with such frequency?!) and not a headache as such, just...a presence, a pressure, which makes you sensitive to sound. When people speak it's as if 20 voices are echoing around your head simultaneously. And the fatigue is total.

Seeing and hearing what is going on here in Brazil on a daily basis doesn't help. Just one fuck up after another.

Just last night watching the news and how a paltry £100 monthly handout intended for the most needy was being exploited by the likes of a rich young thing whose social page is full of photos of her visiting exotic locations around the globe, planning for a Caribean wedding, and an entrepreneur who owns multiple homes, top of the range cars and a yacht.

And whilst I'm watching that the missus tells me of an 'initiative' the hospital boss has taken. Currently hospital staff are not allowed leave. Perfectly understandable under the circumstances. However, knowing the stress my wife and others are under, they should do better in timetabling time off to give them some breathing room.

But they were hit with a further whammy yesterday when the hospital head told all staff 'We are hopeful that with the pressure easing that you can take holiday leave from August.' 'Hooray!'

But then she followed up with. 'However, due to financial restraints all holiday leave this year will be unpaid.'

WHATTTTTT???!!! Way to go, Brazil.

My wife hasn't had it as bad as some health care workers where they continue to work through this grissly crisis without receiving their salaries for the past two months, but I was livid on hearing this last night.

Absolutely shameful.

It sounds like a nightmare in a Kafka story. Everyone in any sort of official position seems to be inherently corrupt or inept or both. As for the rich young thing and the yacht owning entrepreneur, well, much wants more as my mother used to say. And fuck them as her son would say.

Is there nothing that can offer any sort of hope or relief?

Again I hope you can remain resilient in this awful situation, and find a way through it. I'm not so sure I could.

And as I've previously reported, it's coming from the people themselves, not the politicians.

The most uplifting news item last night was this one. I appreciate it's in Portuguese, but it really isn't difficult to follow.

Paraisópolis Favela a Shining Example of Community Spirit

Paraisópolis is the 2nd largest Favela in Brazil's largest city, Sao Paulo. It has 100,000 residents and is a no-go area in its labyrinth of tight alleyways for police and ambulances alike.

It has taken the Federal Government MONTHS to FINALLY come up with a 'strategy' for Brazil's favelas which only came into effect two short weeks ago.

Just as well the Paraisópolis community took matters into their own hands months ago, paying for medics and an ambulance to be on standby 24 hours.

They made and distributed face masks to all. They prepare and deliver 1000s of free meals every day. They converted closed schools into isolation wards. They educate the community on basic hygiene. Volunteers daily check on the state of things in every household. If necessary, the ambulance is activated to transport a severe case to hospital.

The result? Paraisópolis mortality rate is 21.7 per 100,000 population, compared to Sao Paulo's 56.

Whilst the politicians fiddle and point the finger of blame at each other, future civil leaders are being forged into the hottest trouble spots in the country.

That's my hope any way.

That gives hope for sure and inspiration too. Things can't remain the same there after all this is finally done, and strong leadership will be needed. It feels like a watershed.

Compare and contrast the way those people have responded and behaved with the behaviour we saw in Liverpool last week.

Civic responsibility against entitled Gobshitery

And the same good thoughts to your heroic spouse, whom I find inspirational.

And thanks for sharing the story of Paraisópolis. A Brazilian favela now has a lower death rate than the United States of America (now 39 per 100,000 population).

Action v empty rhetoric, eh?

Cheers for the good wishes.

It must be bliss for you having the wife back with you after - what? - a 6 month separation? Is Mom-in-law back stateside with you by now?

Stay vigilant! This plague isn't over yet by a LOOONNNGGG way.

Unfortunately, at the last minute Mom was denied boarding in Shanghai for reasons that would require a Wood-length post to explain. We will try again next month.

And in all seriousness, vigilance is not an issue in my house, despite the almost total absence of the virus in my region. My wife, like most Wuhanese, was traumatized by what the city went through. She is gonna make me be REALLY careful.

One Oregon church, three crowded services, 260 cases.

Of course 1985 is a huge and justifiable grievance but as this site points out year after 35 years Everton have been poorly led and our woes are almost all self-inflicted. As for fan behaviour, our history of racist incidents and some elements of our current support undermine the moral high ground claimed in many of the posts above.

I posted on ToffeeWeb after the recent Chelsea game drawing attention to the dreadful behaviour of a group of our fans close to the Chelsea fans in Stamford Bridge. It did not alas merit a single comment from the ToffeeWebers so keen see the RS as the source of all evil.

I would like to add a key point, when everything is going well, they are jovial all loveable banter; however when things do not go to plan, they change into a caged animal, venting anger on anyone who dare throw some banter back.

I do not tarnish them all the same, there are some decent Reds I know and some genuine match attending fans; however, social media trolls and armchair fans jump on the bandwagon and social media fans are suddenly die hard Reds.

Those are the ones who wind me up, the ones never attending a game in their life, but suddenly decked out with flags and banners and fully expecting a congratulations on your title win.

30 years they waited for the title, Rob, then a couple of games before the title win, some genuine season ticket holders are not allowed to be there in the stadium, they are the ones I feel sorry for, yet those idiots at the Pier Head will no doubt be hangers on celebrating, with not a care in the world for anyone else.

I feel the same as you, Rob, but I cannot say it applies to every single Reds supporter.

These thugs, and there are plenty more of them, should be brought to account for their mindless thuggery. On a similar vein, I would like to see flares banned in the UK, they are dangerous and used by thugs to intimidate people with force.

Just a few random thoughts at the end of a bottle of extraordinary Taylor's Shiraz.

Firstly, after 30 years in Australia, I really can't remember why I hated Michael Heseltine? Though migrating had a lot to do with Margret Thatcher. Really. I thought she really had fucked the country. Rat leaving ship... guilty.

Secondly, ooo, really dangerous ground here, I used to really hate the last-second swill at 2:55 pm. Bombing down the ground in last-minute taxis or on occasion, pushing hard on throngs of supporters, trying desperately to get in in time. Sometimes thinking "This is daft.... Someone could get hurt. I wish we didn't do this. It would be our fault. Our responsibility."

And how does Dalglish get to attend all the games?