VAR denies Everton rare comeback away win

Sigurdsson, Schniederlin, Delph, Calvert-Lewin, Coleman, Kean and Lössl

Commentator said the thing what he loved about Everton, last week against West Ham, was their intensity, but if you lose at Villa, Bournemouth and Burnley, then there is definitely something wrong with our approach to away games, and having watched the first 28 minutes today, I couldn't agree anymore.

Bad news for Bernard, I hope it's nothing to serious.

Non contact game.

There are more wrong-decisions with this VAR-technology than without it... The referees in the Premiership are totally crap!

But at the end of the day we were well on top and winning before a decision that came from absolutely nowhere.

Why have we failed season after season to buy a proven goalscorer?

Why have we got Holgate as our 3rd choice centre back?

Brands. what are you doing????

His sub got us a goal straight after coming on. I thought moving Davies forward worked okay. One really fucking unlucky penalty has stitched us up today. I don't like Silva but I don't think he deserves too much of a beating for this one.

Here's the real truth: we're no good. Our new motto : Basic Things Done Badly. Never mind, we'll win a Cup for best basket weaving in the community.

Not one single player had a good game.. errors all over the place. The substitutions were also a bit bizarre as well. Sigurdsson had a decent 10 minutes after he came on, during which he ran himself out - and we then reverted to type. Kean should've been on for Bernard. Delph was also a pretty pointless sub.

Winning that game, or even drawing, would've been a fig leaf to Silva's utter incompetence.

Boot him out the door now.

The penalty was one of those things (a very poor decision, and hopefully there is going to be transparency with names, because I'm sure whoever gave that today, might decide it's not a penalty next week, nudge, nudge) but if you have got to play a fragile centre back, then I'm afraid you will always have a very fragile fucking team.

LEAVE!!!

"1-2-3 — Next game is a must-win game!!!"

Finding out that the VAR ref was Lee Fucking Mason does not surprise me, he is too unfit even to be a VAR ref.

That does not excuse the way the team weakly fell apart after the penalty. It all comes from the manager.

Taking off Iwobi AND Walcott (the pace that was scaring Brighton into staying back) and bringing on Delph was utter madness.

Once again SHOCKING decisions by an inept manager who needs to go. We are in serious trouble under this clown.

He brought a striker on to play up front, instead of the winger he'd been playing there. Not exactly a genius move.

I still don't know what formation we were playing at the end. 4-2-2-2?

Regards the pen call and Keane fair enough. However, there is always going to be a mitigating circumstance. You never ever have your best 11, in their best form, with the perfect ref.

The continuing trend with Silva is a shapeless back line and central midfield. Players hiding and not wanting the ball. Only sporadic bursts of obvious "effort." Frequent "rash" mistakes leading to red cards, penalties and goals. Lack of creativity, woeful finishing. I see nothing at all to suggest any hope of a bright future under Silva.

With the money in football, someone should be doing a lot of research into some of these VAR decisions to make sure that the people on the panel offer consistency for these major decisions, and this is definitely down to more than paranoia.

Had the ref just took 30 seconds of his time to see the screen for himself which every other European league or competition instructs them to do, he would not have given it. We would've seen the lead out and, instead, we'd be praising the team and Silva on a very good fightback and win right now.

We are a bunch of gobshite weaklings at the club from top to bottom. All mouth and no delivery. I will support them till I die but I am resigned to our being forever mediocre.

Carelessness is enough for the penalty and Keane was certainly careless.

We collapsed under pressure once more!!!

So to be completely on topic: We are a very poor team that was beaten by another very poor team who have spent most of their history in the third level of English football. We don't have a good manager. We do have the most loyal, long suffering fans who travelled over three hundred miles to be served up ninety six minutes of rubbish.

I look forward to both teams in any future matches having 10 pens each for the slightest contact in the box.

Aside from Var and Lee Mason being the star of the show I thought Pickford was poor for the opening goal and Gomes was very quiet.

What an absolute abysmal record this fella has. Unforgivable. We are a fucking joke of a club. Bite the bullet, Mr Moshiri, and put him and us out of our misery.

𧷤 MILLION + spent in 3 seasons and we are much worse than when Moyes run us on a shoestring budget. Unreal!!!

Keane and Pickford made two of the big mistakes today and they aren't players this regime signed and I doubt they'd even consider signing them if they had the choice. They're on stupid wages and so here to stay.

Sidibe was nowhere for the last goal and shows why we've hesitated on playing him. He's always had a question mark over his defensive ability.

After VAR, Silva had used all his subs, whats he meant to do to stop these overpaid players from letting there heads drop? He can't call a time out and give them a pep talk.

Definitely a pen under the rules, no point in blaming VAR.

Sigi needed dropping based on his performances this season so I was really surprised he came on in place of Bernard. I really thought DCL or Kean would come on to keep the attacking intent, certainly not Sigi.

I was made up Holgate and DCL combined for the goal, two lads who have taken more than their fair share of unnecessary stick.

I have been anti VAR since it was talked about and that decision today was, in my opinion, a disgrace. Earlier Richie was getting dragged everywhere in the box and nothing given. Keane is looking at the ball and there was no intent whatsoever. Every contact is not a free kick or penalty if it is football as we know it is finished.

Really surprised we couldn't see that game out as to be honest Brighton weren't up to much attacking wise.
Questions need to be asked how that bloody winger got so much room to even cross that ball.

Without doubt even after only 10 games we are in a bit of a state and a big rut. Something needs changing very very soon

Plus, we're crap and sealed our own fate.

Some bad luck for me, but listening to the match on Everton radio it sounded like they were poor first half and some players like Walcott reverted to type, and fluffed his lines a couple of times in front of goal, with his lack of aggression. I didn't understand the first substitution or bringing Delph on in a game we threw away again. But the energy, pace and intent were clearly missing having made a fleeting appearance against WHU.

Having said that it sounded like Everton were the better team second half even allowing for the bias of the commentators. But that is not to accept that the performance and result were in any way satisfactory, and yet another winnable game lost.

The substitutions were dubious

Other commitments this morning prevented me from watching much of the first half, so can't really comment on it. Ironically, each time I stole a glimpse it was to see Brighton's and Everton's opening goals.

Didn't see the foul that gave Brighton the free kick they scored from, but it sounds like another poor play around our penalty by Gomes which has led to a goal. Not the first time he has done it in a Blue shirt. I have to say the wall again looked poorly formed and as hard struck as the shot was, you would hope for better from your keeper in defending it.

Nice corner and header for our equaliser. Pity it won't be credited to Richarlison.

I was able to watch the whole second half and we were good value for our lead I thought from Holgate's excellent run and through ball, matched by DCL's own excellent run in behind the defence and finish. More evidence that if you give Dominic quality ball, he CAN finish.

We were on for the ideal result I had hoped for earlier in the week: lose the first goal, but come back to win to get a couple of monkies off our backs - the stat of never winning a PL game under Silva having conceded the first goal and winning on the road. We looked well in control.

But this is Everton. The pen decision initially looked like a wasted VAR referral, but the executioner's gong sounded louder with each replay.

And you have to say, for the last 22 minutes (including injury time) after we scored, Brighton was the better side. Everton in particular struggled to handle the sub Trossard who crossed for Digne's own goal winner for the Seagulls.

Last week's win over WHU was welcome and much-needed. Today was yet another reminder that we are a long way off that proverbial corner, never mind turning it.

Pressure once again back on the team and the manager to get a result on Tuesday over bottom-placed and winless Watford to book our passage to the last 8 of the LC.

It's an unforgiving world, football management.

That said we were sloppy today, Walcott for instance, getting into great positions, then doing absolutely nothing with it. Utterly poor.

One thing I can't really understand, if Marco Silva is obsessed with details (which seems to be the opinion among the players), howcome we are so sloppy in passing and with decisionmaking in the final third?? That would, to me, be the first thing a manager obsessed with details should eradicate.

I've stood by Silva, and I think we played pretty good football during his time, but I don't think he is the man to erase the flaws I mention above. Decisionmaking, movement and passing in the final third is absolutely essential to scoring goals.. we totally lack that...

I don't know how anyone can say that was the case here.

Richarlison should of headed that free-kick away instead of shitting out the puff. Pickford should of saved it.

Thought Holgate held his own.

Silva, fuck off, just fuck off.

Something's not right mentally with this team.

As someone once said, it's deja vu all over again!

OK he didn't sign Keane and Pickford. He did though sign Lossl to "challenge Pickford." Given Pickford's poor form, Lossl must be terrible if he can't get a game.

As for the "time out" remark. Yeah he can't bring on extra subs. But he does work with the players every day. Part of his remit is to instill confidence and motivate the players. If you focus on the other aspect of his role, e.g. tactics, it's not as if we saw some amazing performance pre VAR. The middle field was non existent. No one was in space, seeking the ball, no one was tackling. It was poor but we were still in the game because Brighton were poor also.

As Derek says, we don't have that winning mentality.

Why have we failed season after season to buy a proven goalscorer?

Why have we got Holgate as our 3rd choice centre back?

Brands. what are you doing????

When will Pickford be dropped? He's a proper liability

Holgate hasn't played all season, so I can't believe people didn't think he did okay, but maybe I'm just comparing him to his defensive partner, and he only deserved a 4/10.

I hope he has an app/programme that measures players' motivation and mental strength before we sign anyone, because he isn't going to improve it, is he?

No contesting your final sentence though Tony.

Bringing on Sigurdsson for the injured Bernard the wrong call. Richarlison should have been pushed out wide and either on DCL or Kean should have been up front.

We finished the game with Gomes, Davies and Delph all in the middle (along with the invisible man Sigurdsson) and Brighton got more and more space out wide as the game went on and we lost our shape.

How's Silva meant to stop their heads dropping? He had them all smiles during the week, as seen by all the content released.

We have a mental well-being team, headed by Willie Donachie's son. Are the players using this enough or is the team not up to the job? It seemed a strange appointment to me.

Still, we should have won, or at least got a point... VAR is supposed to be used to make correct decisions, not simply to overturn already-made decisions!!!

Plus, the number of times Everton players were upended, but the referee waved 'play on', had become more than a fuckin joke by the end!!!

Still, we should have won... or, certainly, not have lost!! Why is supporting Everton, being a Toffee, so painful, so often???

Go on have a guess

That's a good question... He should be first.

I rather play someone out of the crowd than Keane at the moment. What is Silva seeing ?

That side today, after all the hope of last week, was like a jellyfish again. I think the players are massively to blame but it's now clear to me that Silva can't do it. Like others before him, he isn't strong enough to pull us up by our bootstraps.

We need a titan, and we're not going to find one. So that's why I'm resigned to mediocrity. Perhaps, after all, we might as well keep Silva. He's no better and no worse than other candidates and we can bob along in 10th with him.

I've hoped against hope for too long. Time for a bit of peace.

Even so, I think the players should be ashamed of themselves. Though they won't be.

Leading 2-1 with 16 mins to go, not a great performance but still better than Brighton.
Then suprise, suprise VAR intervenes for the first time in any match this season. Penalty, I don't care if it was a penalty or not, theres been obvious missed calls before today that VAR have not been interested/ intervened in.

Oh I forgot, its only against Everton lets give it, never mind eh.

Either that or Mosi Kean coming on the pitch Amocachi style, while Walcott has his calf massaged just off pitch side.

Tuesday for me is the game a Silva cannot lose, however my theory is this and probs way off the mark, Benetiz is over in China, there season ends in December.

Have a feeling if things stay the same, Silva will be gone in December.

Oh the joys of Var, did anyone ever think it could be implemented in this way.

Probably every team in the prem has been on the wrong end of a var decision this season. Is it making the game better? Does it help the ref? Does it encourage fair play? Does it overturn clear and obvious errors?

Not sure it is working on any level besides lining the refs pockets. One ref who has probably never kicked a ball in anger refereeing is bad enough, times that by 4 and this is what you have. Organised Kaos.

He should have stopped their first goal - this is England's number 1.

VAR penalty was unfortunate but its how we reacted after Brighton's subs that was most telling.

Silva didn't see the tactical change Potter made to go wide and he tried to pack the middle.

For their winning goal you can't really do anything about that more bad luck.

Watford is a massive game now

Yes, you could argue that the VAR penalty was an injustice and that the Brighton player was in no way impeded and most certainly wasn't touched where he was holding as though he would never play again and it was in no way as bad as many that were let go or not referred to VAR.

All that aside, can Silva explain after all the substitutions why he had Davies playing so far forward while his substitute Delph adopted Davies role, it made no sense whatsoever!

Supercoach - BOLLOCKS!

I listened to the game in Naples and will return in time for Watford - wonder how many of our players are as keen on EFC games as our wonderful fans.

I am dismayed with Everton - pushovers - easy meat for everyone - find some guts Everton and stand up for yourselves and us.

Hes picked the team everyone wanted bar the change he had to make and we have dominated for 75 minutes and again the final ball let us down too often as it almost did v West Ham.

Also a lot more Evidence our goalkeeper is a pure clown. Sick of saying it.

I seriously hope a search is going on, and going well, for a good potential replacement to MS. Despite the assurances of some, I am seeing no green shoots. I mean even big Sam had us playing some good football, so the occasional glimpses don't do it for me. We need consistency, and consistency of the right kind.

Do you think Moshiri would want to find another 𧹈m to pay for the players the "Special One" would want?

I am sorry to say that otherwise I cannot see anything other than relegation. That would cost more than 400.

To be honest, mate, after 60 odd years of supporting us, I've run out of reasons as to why we should be any better than we are, and better than we have been for a very long time. I'm deadly serious when I say that we should recognise that we are just not any good. If we do recognise that, any scraps of success (good cup runs and so on) can be celebrated in context. For our sanity, I think we should abandon any hope of troubling the truly successful clubs who are infinitely braver and better organIsed than us.

It would help in our adjustment to reality if we were not served sentimentality and lies, routinely, by the club.

What defines Everton under Silva? Last weeks win against West Ham (who we have always beat, for a season long as I can remember). Or another loss to a bottom half team like Brighton today.

Last weeks performance was an exception to the rule. Today was the rule.

Can only lead to one conclusion.

Just glad I didn't have to watch it.

Moshiri knew what he wanted and he went for Silva who made it clear to us all that 443 was his favoured formation and he liked high press.

Gana was great for it and unfortunatley there isn't a fraction of a Gana in the side.
Davies may get there eventually but he will leave spaces, lose the ball and drift off at times until hes at Gana level.

Moshiri had to make sure that a manager in the style he wanted, had qenuine quality at his disposal.
He hasn't.

So if what happens on the pitch is Silvas fault always, what happens at the club is Moshiri's fault and there have been major faults since his arrival.

Keane has been ropey since his 1st game and the man behind him is a constant clown.

With not much real quality ahead of those 2 I couldn't believe people thought I was the mad one for suggesting 8th this season was a good finish.

The only moment I am interested in now, is the moment when this clown gets the sack before he does any more damage

Please no.

Soft as shite.

His whole premiership managerial record (the one that counts) is littered with long losing streaks and he regularly swings from one crisis to another. He cant gather any form of consistency in his results. He's always digging himself out of a hole for one reason or another.

ZERO POINTS against premiership heavyweights: Bournemouth, Burnley, Aston Villa, Sheff Utd and now Brighton is a disgrace.

The players like him but his style of play and utilisation of the squad doesn't get the most out of them in anyway. We lack fight, heart and organisation all things the coach has to instill in the squad.

His Everton record has now become indefensible. We face a season that has quickly imploded and a long fight against relegation this season awaits us.

Its amazing how the right man in charge can quickly turn around a teams fortunes, look at Lampard and Rodgers. Yet the wrong choice can send a team plummeting look at Solskjaer and Silva.

Silva get out of EFC now

How bad does it have to get for you to question Silvas position. Is it only if we get relegated that you think we need to make change.

I have no expectations of Everton and becoming bored of average. The thing is with championship football is that it is very competitive. We are not. What makes anyone think we would get promotion back to the premiership? My aim would be to not get relagated again.

Pay Silva off and get a manager to keep us in this league. Get relagated and we are done!!!

Next 3 games will be very interesting in terms of Silva's destiny, having said that all we can do at this stage is install Rhino as caretaker (or give Big Sam his job back).

This season is dead in the water and that's probably why they haven't sacked Silva, they might as well give him an extended run to see if he can turn it around.

The number of manager's coming and going is becoming embarrassing and Moshiri is to blame for Koeman and Silva.

Moshiri needs to step away and let others make some importand choices, Brands being one of the others does not fill me with confidence at this point, but he's all we have.

Please don't shoot me down in flames, but BK got it right with Moyes and Martinez who at the time was in the right direction.

It's sad isn't it, these are our version of the people who will put in place our "braver and more organised" club.

This is the most expensive squad we've ever had and they are utter shite! The manager is shite. The players are shite. The owners are shite and the club, currently, is shite. Our only saving grace is our loyal fans.

I'd ship the whole fucking lot of them out and dump them in the middle of the Mersey. That way they might show some survival instincts.

I've always been an optimist when it comes to Everton but right now I feel there's something rotten to the core. Something bad is going on behind the scenes. Like most, I was hopeful Moshiri would restore us to former glories but it looks like he might be the final nail in the coffin. I hope I'm wrong.

Your fifty, 300 word posts defending him every thread are now downright bizarre.

On the pen, the Brighton players were not really appealing and then the ref and VAR intervened. I am not aware of a similar decision being made before today. I thought VAR was to correct a clear and obvious mistake. My arse! Joke.

We seem to be the guinea pig for these decisions. Last year on the opening day Jags was red carded for a supposed dangerous tackle. But by the new year similar tackles were only yellows.

As many have said, the performance was terrible which has been the constant all season and large parts of last. Brighton were there for the taking. Very slow tippy tappy football in the final third. When a player does break the defensive line they always turn back. Compare that to Brighton's winning goal where the player drove to the by line and Digne had no where to go. Murray would have scored any way. Perhaps if we played 2 up this may change??

We surrendered the impetus after going 2-1 up. This is common under Silva. Remember Anfield and Newcastle last year to name 2 examples. Crap substitutions today again. How Kean is not getting a game is beyond me.

As we all agree Silva will go. Just a question of when. The sooner the better for me as 1 good performance in 10 is not good enough. 40 points is looking a long way off.

Hopefully the new manager is what Brands is working on as he is very quiet at the moment.

Is Willie Donahie's son the Sport Phycologist, that Big Sam talked about appointing. I thought he was having a laugh.

Thought Jays #91 analysis of the second half was accurate and insightful. I am not surprised given Evertons inconsistent motivational levels the intensity of the West Ham game wasn't evident from the start. Brighton where not as open as West Ham and did the late surge that you could put the kettle on, regarding Evertons resilence.

Kean a confidence p!ayer is a weakness in Evertons defence, even in the West Ham game he got caught out of position. Fony! wasn't good enough. ,

As for Pickford he is now a mistake a game, this week he didn't get away with it. Not good at organising a wall. I agree that Sigurdsson wasn't a appropriate substitution.

A pattern of one win and one loss is second half of the table stuff. It takes two results and a loss to get midtable.

The project it well and truly stalled

But hey, we remained front-foot, albeit sloppily, and managed to enter the half 1-1

2. You can't predict Bernard getting hurt, but Silva CAN PREVENT subbing the utterly useless Gylfi Sigurdsson on. He had what? 2 touches and then went invisible, and I mean invisible. If anyone who watched this game and didn't notice the complete 180 in pace, attack, and all that, I suggest a visit to your optometrist. Compounded by the awful sub of Delph. Yay, DCL scored (a nice goal at that), but wtf is Kean doing on the bench?

3. Like it or not, Keane is an oaf and had yet another terrible game. There is no provision for accidental contact, and he stomped on the guy's ankle. Naturally we won't get a call to go our way, but there it was. VAR did exactly what it was supposed to do, based on the current rules/guidelines.

4. Capitulation. Zero on-field leadership, zero heart shown in order to roll up their sleeves and fight. The second it went 2-2, everyone got that same sense of dread. Capped off by Sidibe being way the fuck out of position (and honestly I thought he was one of our better players today), Gomes not knowing how to defend, and Digne being left naked trying to stop the cross. Where were Holgate & Keane, other than watching as spectators? Utter crap. Completely spineless. An OG was the perfect way to end this one.

I need a break. Even I'm having a hard time feeling optimistic about anything following this disaster.

The thing with big Sam is Everton are to big for him. Snobbery and reality is two different things. Sam was right before he left we are not a top four team and years behind it. We want to think we are better than want we are. The club has spent without structure of planning. Keeping Sam till the new stadium is built should have been the call. I would take being competitive and mid table.

Please please all don't mention Jose coming. Give the guy some credit. We are average and spent hundreds of millions already. Get Moyes or sam back and quickly. Give us a fighting chance!

What are you optimism levels like for Silva's team now that it's been sorted out after the West Ham game and is moving in the right direction?

1. Mid-season managerial replacement, to some schmo who will have a different style, want to use or bring in different players, continuing our trend of mashing together different players from different eras under different coaches, with entirely up-in-the-air result come end of season. This pushes our "plan" another 2 years out, at minimum. Unless one of you knows someone with a magic wand.

OR

2. Stick it out with this mess, most of us lose our hair and develop ulcers, with entirely-up-the-air result come end of season, potentially ending with us being relegated to the Championship. This pushes our "plan" another 2 years out, at minimum.

You must choose.

He's not as bad as someone (who's name escapes me) that defended Moyes like his penis was going to be blended whilst still attached if he didn't (not doddy).

Drop Pickford
Appoint either Benitez or Mancini
Steve Ferns – you are deluded, sorry, pal.

Why don't we ever play solid when we play away from home and not get beat instead of conceding all the time?

The fans had an extreme emotional allergic reaction to Big Sam and it was an illogical one, he should have had the following season, I suspect we'd be better off now if he had.

I wouldn't want Jose, I think he's tired and has become the "dull one" rather than the "special one".

Here goes, I would snap Benitez up right now if I could regardless of any past banter/rib tickling he might of had with us.

We seem to be re-writing the script as we look like we are in need of the Allardyce/Moyes method again. I don't get the support for Silva. His record is crap. His tactics are crap. His substitutions are crap. I know we are all die hards but come on!!

It looks like there will be no immediate decision so Silva use the last few games you have and have a go. 4-3-3. Delph-Gomes-Davies in the middle and 3 fast forwards perhaps Iwobi, Richarlison and Kean.

That said, I'm sick of this Everton team away from home. Even after that disgraceful decision, the absolute minimum we should take home is a draw. I didn't see the last 10/15 minutes, but I have seen highlights of their winning goal and all the players are out of position, running back desperately. It's like kids football or a basketball match. It starts at the top. The manager should make sure we are compact and ready to see the game out with a point if need be.

I will continue to support the manager and team, but I am not seeing improvements in terms of our naivety away from home, or the cheap goals we give away. There is ability in this squad, but we are lacking organisation and are a soft touch. This is leading to mistakes being made constantly. We need to get back to basics - the trouble is, this manager doesn't seem capable of changing our approach. He'll be gone by Christmas if he can't (or is unwilling to) change.

Danny @177. All VAR did was seal the deal. The game turned on its head the moment Gylfi sucked the life out of the building, and Delph blew whatever was left in Brighton's face.

The season is already over for us league wise. If we don't get a result against Watford then I think it's time to get a taxi for Silva.
If we happen to beat Watford I think it will only mask the dire situation Silva is getting us in to and I believe that may be even more dangerous for us.

It was bad enough getting beat by an extremely poor team today - Fucking Brighton ! Unbelievable
The crunch for me, the one thing that totally mystified me was the decision by Silva to reduce us to 10 men.

Quite rightly Silva used an excuse last week to rightly drop Sigi. Quite rightly Silva continued doing the right thing and kept Sigi on the bench today.
The Bernard gets injured and Silva has a brainfart. On comes Sigi and down we go to 10 men. If he wasn't good enough to play last week or start this week why bring him on so early and imbalance the team?

I'm no tactical expert like some on here but surely bringing on DCL or Mina should have been the call.
No doubt the experts will tell me where I'm wrong but in my opinion Silvas masterstroke substitution, like so many the past season and a bit, confused the shit out of me.

A taxi should be on standby on Tuesday night.

It's my opinion that it's use will ruin the game, particularly by removing the authority of the referee. Supporters of my generation those in their 70s/80, will recall times when "if the referee didn't see it, then it didn't happen'' Regarding the penalty incident, Ronnie Goodlass considered it accidental, I will make up my own mind when I watch it on Match of the Day,

There have been so many changes in the Laws of Football in recent years that have changed the considerably, I listen to ex professional players saying, "It was accidental but it's still a foul" in our day there had to be intent, and we were led to believe that the words of, "In the opinion of the referee" figured prominently. I feel sorry for younger fans, because I can envisage a time when football will be a non contact sport, it's well on the way right now.

Brighton had more belief and endeavour and our lack of game management as with all teams we've played and will play, effectively won the game for Brighton.

The VAR is spoiling football, but the fact is we didn't put them to the sword when we should have.

The run of game to Chrimbo is horrendous and I have no doubts that we'll be in a relegation battle.

Strange subs, but we can't beat Teams like Brighton, and no desrespect to them, then we have really hit the bottom.

No team has a divine right to stay in this league and this squad must get some game plan and urgency, pdq, as we will be hitting New Year, in the crap house, bar a miracle.

Dreading the Derby, this run of games back to back, we will need Mina back.

Hopefully we will earn some good luck soon, with dodgy descisions, but the team must get down to see the Harley Street shrinks, as this rot, looks terminal.

As Colin has stated and we've said for donkies years, supporting Everton warrants a government health warning. The sad reality is now it's so predictable, every game. Let's be honest West Ham, were rank last week, so any decent team would have beat the the..

Also today we should have been full of belief, why not play with two strikers, and try and blitz the game, and convert the chances?

Also any one for Jonas, in goal?

Big ask v Watford, I hope the players are up for it, as the season, will be compost yet again before November. And Old Nicks rising, and the darkness of this winter, could be even bleaker, than last season.

Hope eternal!

If it's in the rules, it's in the rules, it was a penalty.

Regarding VAR, I can judge whether it was a penalty or not – where is the consistency of looking at other tackles during the game in the penalty area.

Before VAR, the one moan from all supporters, no matter what club they supported, was the inconsistency of referees' decisions; nothing has changed with VAR, except Everton are the first club this season to be hit with this particular decision. I'll watch with interest for the next team to suffer from the same circumstances.

Re: VAR, the anger shouldn't be directed at why Keane was the culprit, it should be directed at why the same analysis didn't happen with Richarlison being hauled down, resulting in a penalty for us. Terrible inconsistency.

The penny hasn't dropped. We are not as good as the likes of Brighton. Look at the table. Look at our results against so-called poorer teams. We are regularly the poorer team.

Reality check: we have become whipping boys. Time for the management to take action.

Cue another dismal defeat against the mighty Brighton.

Yes the bloody penalty was harsh but Keane is so clumsy at times he's given that idiot Mason at VAR HQ the chance to award the first VAR pen without the on-field joker making the decision. He was too tight and arms waving and did, accidentally, it seems, stand on a foot. No way a penalty if the pitch-side screen is looked at but that's not the point for me. What really mattered here was another collapse to defeat.

No leadership, no shape no real momentum after that setback. Shit happens. But when it does you can guarantee we will make it very runny and exceptionally smelly. Had we won at 1-2, I'm sure few would have questioned those two subs. But the way we disintegrated and gave away a winner showed that it's not all about a goal. We really lost our organisation and gaps opened up under even slight pressure from a very limited team.

Someone asked if it was better to in effect sit back and hope for better or take action now as the losses pile up. How many more defeats does it take against bottom-half teams? How long in or around the relegation places before someone spots that much harder runs of games are on the way?

Beating Watford will be important but a cup run and a season fighting relegation don't equal each other out for me. I know it's still early is after a quarter of the season gone. Is it really “early”? I think we are well into it all and look terrible, one good two half win last week.

Oh, and how can Gomes and Davies go from that commanding partnership to that lack of control in seven days? Tom picked up, but Gomes? Then there's Walcott? The heroes of West Ham down to earth instantly. Somethings just so wrong with our setup and how you don't end up back at the manager's door I don't know but I've written off another season unless the January window produces something special.

Are you re-writing what you said in retrospect?

I'm with you, in as much as I will support any Everton manager. Where we may differ is, I believe that lads who have been playing football probably since the age of 10 or 11, should know enough to try to maintain their positions, and other than running on to the pitch to organise them, I don't see what any manager can do.

Hi Mark [178], welcome to the fold, find a scapegoat or two, that always helps.

I have no I'll feeling towards the lad, I'm just mystified as to why he backs Silva up when there is so much evidence to the contrary!!! Results speak for themselves.

I just want him to hate Silva as much as I do because he's a useless, clueless fuck-up of a manager that has been nothing but unspectacular since his arrival in the Premier League and will possibly, quite fucking likely, take us down.

I'm going to try to become optimistic again, because I'll never stop rooting for them to do better. If that answers your question, wonderful. If it doesn't, also wonderful. No skin off my back, as the saying goes.

Yet another reason to get shut of Marco and Boa Morte.

Does this feel like the team that ended last season or look as ready and confident?

Silva has had a rebuild. Results stink but our blueprint stinks more:

Lose your best performers. Fail to replace them...

Buy players that can't get into the sides of teams that we should be looking to step over...

Spend millions on a baby from Italy to be your main striker who has never played regular at the top level.

Oh and expect the manager to do better. What a blueprint.

His distribution and coupled with Michael Keane and The Wanderer, Sidibe, in context, I think Tuesday's game is the proverbial final countdown for Marco Silva.

Regardless of getting beat, the same creases in the attitude and shape, and game management show every game.

Everton needs some Spirits of the past to come back, and add some hope and guidance, in these darkest of days, as we are on the edge and we need a massive tempo to win v Watford, whom will be out to prove a point.

On a related point, it is hard to know if he was a Brands or Silva type signing. I'm not an expert here, so it would be good to hear the thoughts of others on the footballing philosophy of Silva and the qualities of Kean. Is this the type of striker Silva would normally go for? It may be that this is part of the problem? I can't wait for the lad to start scoring, but I do worry that he is pissed-off or homesick.

We lost the pressing intensity of last week with Brighton often having an open field to run out of defence into when against Liverpool they would have had 3 players pressing up trying to stop them.

Their first two goals couldn't be defended against and the VAR decision was not only disgraceful but not what VAR was designed to do. The answer is to banish Sigurdsson and his ilk to the sidelines, get deadwood like Walcott to join them and start promoting academy players.

The obsession with the Moyes - Kenwright era is scary. So as you can see, when we still have fans wantng Moyes or Unsworth to manage Everton, what chance do we stand.

It's fair to say that Leicester are the lastest club to speed past us. When you have a tradition of hiring managers who haven't actually won anying (of note), what you get is decades of rotting.

If Brands has no options, we have to tread water with Silva, we could debate the pros and cons all day long but let us all take the tried and tested method of looking at the results we have had... they are fuckin appalling. To lose matches consistently against opposition like this is unacceptable.

Everton have unbelievable bad luck, (today VAR makes a new precedent against us, for example). I strongly believe that we have more than our fair share of dubious decisions, but we have to get to a performance level where bad luck won't affect us.

Someone posted that the club needs to speak up more and I strongly agree, this 'stiff upper lip' stance is admirable but is quite likely leading to us getting shafted.

On to the league cup, we have to win this game because the cups are all that's left. If we are being honest with ourselves, they always were.

I am now past caring, past worrying, past expecting the unachievable and resigned to the fact that we are shite!!

I shall not miss the endless diatribes on ToffeeWeb, the highs and lows of matchday, nor the long trips to the game.

I will miss taking my seat at Goodison Park; I will miss the feeling of belonging, the camaraderie and the luxury balti pie!!

I will not miss the miserable bugger who has sat next to me for the past x years and has not uttered a word of greeting but sought to push and shove me to make room for his big fat arse. Ignorant twat!

I shall feel ashamed to sever over half a century of loyal adoration to the club I love – but I shall get over it.

I am sorry to say that the game and the club I love is no longer a game or club that I am prepared to suffer any longer.

Things change, football has changed, Everton has changed and I am not prepared to put up with those changes. I'm Out...

What is our longest unbeaten run under Marco Silva?

Since he came here we have been so so easy to beat it's unbelievable really, the amount of dross sides that have turned us over is worrying.

Even with the setback on VAR why did we make Brighton look like Barcelona in that last 16 minutes?

Why were we not making Brighton fearful of hanging on and taking the game to them in that last few minutes?

Our players are so so mentally weak, none more than our centre halves and our abject loser of a goalkeeper that does nothing at all to bring about calm or confidence in the face of pressure.

When the bare light of day shines the reality is that with the exception of that decent purple patch springtime run at Goodison, our form since we lost that derby at Anfield in December last year has been literally appalling, the amount of shit games we have lost and goals we have leaked since then.

This is EFC we're talking about here, the only consistent thing about them is their inconsistency.

If you'll accept any advice from me? It would be to be cautiously optomistic, personally I would need to see a run of 10 - 15 games we're they played well even if they lost, before I'd say they turned any corners.

I'm a cruel father; he could still be saved from a lifetime of this! Shall I spare him?

Perhaps a clause (or maybe just a 'direction' to officials) that states that the tackle should only be penalised if it impeded the attacker and prevented him completing what he intended to do, ie, the outcome would have been different but for the challenge. In other words, back to the pre-VAR days.

Brands is definitely under pressure also, how he didn't bring in a centre-back, after losing two, and not bringing in an experienced centre-forward, was absolutely shocking.

So, for those that think he will be gone, I bet I'm more confident he won't be any time soon, unfortunately.

I'll take advice from anyone, when I'm feeling less like punting my TV across the street lol

God knows. Don't we just have to do something?

He went on about the one thing that he will certainly never change at Everton will be the culture of the club.

Feck me that's the first thing I want the manager to change.

What culture and tradition are we trying to hold on to here?

What are we deluding ourselves with, this School of Science palaver has long long since passed.

The modern culture and mentality at Everton, what is it?

Never expect to beat Liverpool home or away?

Never win a trophy again.

Never win away to a top 6 side again.

Never go into games against lesser lights with the “we are better than you” mentality?

The first thing I'd be trying and wanting the manager to change is exactly that, this losers mentality and culture that we have harboured for too many years now.

If he had brought in Jamie Vardy or another of that ilk, he would have been attacked for not aiming high enough. He did convince an elite Italian international who needs a run of games in the Premier League. This was the right profile of player for an aspiring club.

It sounds like we got close to Zouma but things changed when Sideshow Bob went to The Arse. We do have 4 decent centre backs on the books as it is. There was no point to him bringing in another player of Holgate's level.

Plus, we still have a bloated squad and a key aim of Brands has been reducing it so that we can spend more wisely going forward.

Yes, I can see how it might want players to go to ground in hope of a soft decision, in that case we're going to do really well as soon as Richarlison realises this is the case.

Ste, I do believe that this decision was correct, there was definite contact and it can be painful on the ankle/achillies. Whether the player felt any pain or not is another matter, but nearly all players will make the most of such a contact in the box.

The VAR ref and the ref on the pitch had nowhere else to go with the decision other than a pen.

It might work for us next time?

I think in the long run it will cut out a lot of "hanky pankey" in the box and give the more skilful teams a better chance?

We'll probably be in league 1 with Vinnie Jones's son upfront by the time this happens

Good for you guys - the crowd sounded noisy and I'm sure a good part of that was you fellas.

Safe journey back.

If that's the case, I certainly will. It's my nature.

The rules allow for a subjective assessment of carelessness or recklessness. The referee didnt see it as that.

VAR overruled this when they are only only allowed to do so if the ref makes a clear and obvious mistake. He didnt. He made a subjective assessment.

Standing on someone's toe in a 50/50 while looking clearly at the ball is not a foul for me... however we shouldn't even get to that point as it's not a clear and obvious mistake to come to that subjective conclusion.

I take it you'd be excited beyond belief at Big Sam (good god man) also getting us relegated and then playing dull, boring football in the Championship?

What a dreadful day out.

Football has crossed a line here. If every slight foul in the box is going to be punished remotely when the ref has seen nothing, there must be at least two or three pens in every game given via VAR.

I despise VAR, but if we must have it, there has to be be consistency, otherwise it's completely and utterly pointless.

Now I am absolutely convinced that he is the only realistic option if relegation is not to become a reality

May want to check with Sunderland supporters on that

The rules allow the ref to give a pen for accidental fouls.

That's what happened today, the ref on the pitch simply didn't see it or believe there was contact and then was alerted by the ref in the VAR box that a foul had taken place.

Exactly everything that's wrong with the current mentality at this club.

Moyes was solid without being spectacular while it lasted but that glass ceiling never got broken in 11 years did it?

I'm not saying he didn't do some good things for this club, he did, but he's used goods now, he's exposed, the game has moved on since the days when he pinched a Tim Cahill or Mikel Arteta on the cheap.

When Moyes left Everton he was big news, the man that wasn't being held back by Everton and it's financial restraints.

In 2019, Moyes is just another Steve Bruce or Billy Davies type journeyman however, zero in his CV to suggest he should ever be considered for the job at this club again.

This is actually one area where the NFL has a good rule for this sort of thing, regarding pass interference. If the defending player is "playing the ball," meaning he's looking at it and trying to defend, the penalty usually won't be called unless it's an absolute mauling. Accidental trip-ups, etc. are non-calls.

If the player is just looking at the receiver with his back to the QB, it's a penalty 100% of the time.

Yet again everything was just so obvious, typical to why that performance was truly abysmal.

Brighton offered nothing from open play, almost a little as West ham yet we lacked intensity, tempo and ball pace. We conceded three?!

I thought with Holgate in tow the high line would have a decent buffer, yet we set up much deeper than last week and the spaces weren't squeezed by the midfield pair. The front four became detached.

Poor Alex Iwobi, the only player I though that carried on from last week. Always passing and moving. Sure he made mistakes but in their half. To marginalize him after being picked over Sigurdsson is soul destroying I'd be very pissed off.

Sigurdsson, is a dead spot, he loves to receive the ball back to goal and often destroys the momentum of our flow. One free kick he received then dribbled away from goal was quite maddening. He inhibits others because the pass never comes quickly. People stop making runs. Walcott fades as soon as the tempo drops, he plays best on instinct, waiting for the ball he'll never have a good game. Pickford again steps towards his wall on a free kick and fails to keep out the shot. I believe that's 5 free kicks he's been beaten 'his side', deffo a technical flaw there.

Silva then plucked Delph out. Jesus. However the worst part for me was going ahead we decided we had won and the team visibly relaxed. Keane was extremely unlucky for my money but you cannot give any referee a decision to make.

Like I've said many times, it's inevitable he will be sacked just a question of when.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/var-premier-league-explained-does-work-decisions-can-changed/

Tony, I completely agree with you.

If a defender sticks his foot to kick the ball, but trips the forward over instead, the referee cannot ignore this, it may not be deliberate, but still an "Accidental" penalty.

Keane had his eye on the ball today but contact was still made with their forward bringing him down, it was accidental, but still a penalty.

Do you bring a caretaker in or sit and wait, to see if results pick up.

Pretty sure though the reason Silva is still in charge is sitting and waiting for Benitez.

Just a thought.

Yes.. the rules 'allows'... let that sink in..'allows'.. not dictates, or obligated..

The ref was looking straight at it and didnt think it was a penalty. Mason has clearly told him that he has made a clear and obvious mistake.

He's wrong.. on a subjective call.

We are in agreement.

It can be said that his utter stubbornness of the first 8 matches is what put us in this predicament, but if you only look at today's match, we didn't lose because of our manager.

It's curious to me why very few ever blame the players on the pitch.

Subjective yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on that particular decision.

No I think he'll have to suffer like I've done!! To think I was a glory hunter as a 5 year old back in 1984!!

With the players, money and resources Everton have, they should be beating Brighton away from home; anything else is an excuse.

The old adage that 'you can't beat the referee' still holds, even with an increase in technology.

I am not suggesting that David Moyes is a long-term solution as manager.

However, when we were in a similarly desperate position which resulted in Walter Smith's dismissal, David came in, got us out of that dreadful situation and, with minimal financial resources produced, a decent team that punched well above its weight.

I totally agree with you that the chances of picking up the likes of Tim Cahill and Mikel Arteta for next to nothing are far less now than they were back then in view of the ludicrously high fees that are demanded for very average players.

However, Moyes was able to instil a degree of fight and tactical astuteness into the team which quite honestly, in my view, Martinez, Koeman and now Silva have seemed incapable of achieving despite their so-called impressive pedigrees.

In the short-term, we desperately need to preserve our Premier League status if we are to have any chance of the new ground becoming a reality. Relegation would almost certainly see Moshiri depart the scene and the possibility, heaven forbid, of us becoming another Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds would become far more real.

If today was a one-off and we'd lost because the game changed on a VAR decision alone, then I could understand why it might be a bit harsh to blame him. However, the evidence (particularly away from home) is that this isn't the case. Once again we end up losing a game we should have won.

We can share the blame around with the players, the director of football, the chairman or whoever but Silva picks the team, coaches the players all week and is the one in charge of day to day football matters.

If it isn't in large part his fault that we have gone backwards at such an alarming rate and the same shit keeps happening, what's the point of having a manager at all?

He'll still be here tomorrow, he'll have to lose a few more to come, before the taxi is called.

Shouldn't of they ran an article on Smalahove (sheep's head) or Finnbiff (sauteed reindeer meat, served with sauce in stew form), which looks like the contents of my bowel after a large dose of liver salts combined with a vindaloo washed down with a pint of syrup of figs.

Knives out on R5 Live for Pickford – no longer England's Number One...

As long as you are patient (very patient) you will see some happy days with the Blues.

Get on with securing your future for the moment then after you get that good position you can turn back to supporting the Blues from across the Ocean. Good hunting.

You can question our mental fortitude all you want, but you can't just shrug off the VAR decision when it *completely* changed the complexion of the match. Brighton were handed a lifeline out of nowhere, the crowd got fired up and it gave their players self-belief where none existed before. God knows we've made an art out of shooting ourselves in the foot, but this –this was complete bullshit.

If the penalty isn't given and we see out the result, it's back-to-back victories, and a come-from-behind road win and the entire season looks different. Instead, we get screwed. Frankly, I'm not terribly interested in what transpired afterwards, since we *never* should have been in that position in the first place.

We have to tread water with Brands for this season unless it gets catastrophic, today's VAR decision is just typical of the shocking luck? We have with decisions but our fragile nature means that any bad decision becomes fatal.

Good teams have a fuck you attitude and ride it. Another poster quite rightly pointed out the club's lilly-livered stance on these precedents that we seem to be the victim of doesn't help and most probably contributes to our sufferings. The Niasse decision still annoys me to this day but why wasn't the club kicking up a storm about it?

We desperately need to do well in the cups starting Tuesday, the league is just a turgid struggle.

Otherwise we didn't play too badly. Not as good as against West Ham but I actually think we are making some progress. Walcott seems to have had a new lease of life and should have scored today.

Move on, keep working, maybe do some business in January and see where we go. I think there is still hope for Silva to create something here.

Our away form is simply atrocious: 1 point from a possible 15 so far this season. That's virtually a guaranteed defeat on the road every game.

People talking about luck, the referee, VAR etc. Please just look at the table and the results so far. These things cannot account for 6 defeats in 10 games. Our starting XI is packed with internationals but we can't even draw with quasi-Championship sides, never mind beat them.

It's simple for me, the manager and backroom staff need to go ASAP. They simply are not up to the job. It beggars belief that people still think Silva is a premier league standard manager. The guy should not be near a premier league side let alone Everton!

The League Cup is a distraction right now. The top priority is to get points on the board ASAP to move up the table. We could easily get zero points in December and be in the real shit of it come January.

Moshiri and Brands need to get a new guy in by the next international break.

I'm getting increasingly worried with every game Silva is given (to waste).

There has been much talk of how slow we are going forward and we are just as slow covering back. Out of Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson and Davies, how many will we have back in the box to defend a counter attack?

My heart is in my mouth every time we lose possession with our defenders up the field. I feel sorry for Digne. He scored an own goal because he was the only one fast enough to try to cut out the cross.

I don't think it matters what happens against Watford when you look at the remaining fixtures between now and New Year. Silva is doomed.

With player power what it is (they play their best only when they feel like, without punishment), the game is moving towards a state were what the players really need is a stunningly beautiful bird with a Doctorate in Psychology to give the team talk, give them all a bone on while massaging their egos both individually and collectively.

It doesn't really matter what any coach may say to them or tactics given to them, they only play when they feel like it. Pumped with with testosterone, they might actually give their best.

I know this splits the fan base and the fact he managed Sunderland and West Ham but every mediocre manager we've had since Moyes has been found out. Get fucking rid of Silva tonight.

Over the past 25 years, no I can't, concerning the Premier League regulars.

I'm most disappointed that they are doing so well. Pissed actually.

You were doing so well until you mentioned "Knife to a gunfight".

I'm going to work on 3 things:
1. Getting a job (or winning the lottery, whichever comes first);
2. Remaining optimistic (and patient, oh so patient) about our club;
3. Seeing a match at Goodison (or the new stadium);

Oh and I'll probably have to take out the trash or something in between. Cheers mate, off to my father-in-law's surprise birthday party, as if this could be any worse of a Saturday, lol.

The confidence this can build cannot be underestimated; imagine how horrific our season could become if we bail out of both cups?

Besides, if Moyes's tenure is considered to be some "golden era", then we really are in big trouble as a club.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tAipt7oPE

Don't worry. We have the coaching staff and squad to lose any game, irrespective of the opposition.

No I can't. The pain seems endless.

Stats can often paint a picture, and in this instance it is a pretty terrible one.

Let's keep it simple. When Everton go behind against a team under Silva. We will not win the game. It's a kind of losing mentality that seems to have crept within the very core of the football club.

Marco is not a winner. And he is sending out a team of losers in Everton shirts most weeks.

A sub who wasn't even on the pitch had a penalty awarded against him which proved to be the winning goal.

Indeed, the said player has yet to even kick a ball for his new team.

Link

Silva is after him in the next window. Fits in with his 'project' for Everton, apparently.

It's amazing that the sports psychologist hasn't been changed but the manager just hasn't got the ability to raise these players. That is a major failing with Silva.

A team of ordinary players can perform extraordinarily with the right stimuli from the manager. We need a manager that can do that and a manager that isn't letting anyone get the better of him and his team.

Brands needs to earn his money. If Brands had a say in getting Silva in then we are in the shit. Brands has to appreciate if there is just one weakness then you can get all the skilled players in the world but the team will not be a success.

Brilliant!

Away from home we sit so deep, leave a big gap. Looked promising in places but we overhit simple balls or mis-control; we get into a promising position then fluff it. I can't see where Silva goes from here. If we win midweek it's only a matter of time before it looks like shit again. We are stuck with this guy a bit longer, unfortunately.

More worrying that the owners seem unable to come up with a business-like, ruthless decision based on the facts. Why? Indecision, disagreement, pride, lack of ambition, stupidity? We are seriously in danger of relegation if we carry on with this, wishful, self-deception.

I've only just dried out waiting in the pouring rain for the train.

After the match and in the train I heard no end of Brighton supporters saying it wasn't a penalty, but that's the luck of the draw these days, VAR!!!

And Mark Guglielmo before you make another post pontificating about VAR, I'll ask you one question, we're you there?

You seem to take some perverse satisfaction in criticising other TW posts, and making comparisons with NFL!

I'm beginning to bypass your posts as they are IMO unbalanced and mischievous.

Please don't bother responding!

I'll echo Rob.

That's a cracker!

Silva remains in the last chance saloon. I think he'll get till Xmas at the minimum. I'd say there's next to no chance of us getting relegated personally and that's the type of thinking that brought us Allardyce.

“We're you there?”

Can we only comment if we were there?

Instead, they got neither but dug very deep and battered the All Blacks with a combination of skill and determination. Exactly the opposite of what this crappy Everton team shows every weekend.

Football has got the game it deserves, and only the other day I was listening to a fella say footballers were faggots, unlike rugby players but he was a disgruntled Liverpudlian, fuming with the Man Utd player James.

I argued that whilst football is definitely not as tough as rugby, not all footballers were fags, “but the biggest problem is cheating” and couldn't he remember the stick that Robbie Fowler got for telling the ref that David Seaman, hadn't touched him, which made the ref change his mind about the penalty he had just awarded Liverpool all those years ago?

Everybody cheats in football, and it's got a lot worse over the years. You're clever if you get away with it, but it's horrible when you get done by it, with the most sickening defence of the cheat being interpretation. The Germans scoring that penalty today tells me everything.

Yes I was, hence my comment about getting soaking wet waiting for the train!!!!

I think your posts have been mostly spot-on, for what it's worth; I never noticed any NFL comparisons either??

Why is it futile to blame Silva? The shameful record of NEVER winning a game after going behind has seen various player combinations, but only one Common Denominator – Silva.

He hasn't got a clue how to manage a Club like Everton, or how to mentally prepare players before going into a match. I do honestly believe we have some very good players, and some, that more capable Managers than Silva, would love to have under their care.

It's not that the guy is doing us a favour, he is getting paid astronomically to manage! I truly believe he has displayed for far too long that this remit is well beyond his capability.

I just wish the Board would hold their hands up and be honest with the life blood of the Club, the supporters, that they have monumentally erred in their selection of candidates for manager, and act accordingly.

If you are paying these salaries, at least get someone who can possibly provide some evidence that they are worth it. No-one expects any team to win every game, but at least show some style and mental fortitude, and if possible some entertainment, not a nail-biting experience week in week out! Rant Over.

I wonder if the top quality coach the England Rugby team has makes a difference?

Every time I hear Eddie Jones speak, I think I'd like to play for him (and I don't play rugby).

Somehow, I don't see the rugby equivalent of Keane, Schneiderlin et al getting close to an Eddie Jones team.

Nobody else saw this.

I had no fears of relegation in 2017 when Koeman was on a bad run. Reason being the games we lost at the time were to mostly top sides. I think we lost to Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs on the trot on the way to Koeman being sacked as well as Arsenal but at least we had the ‘lesser' teams to get points from later. This time however under Silva, we're losing to the likes of Villa, Bournemouth and Brighton and haven't even played the top teams yet, City aside. That's a big difference.

If we can't beat the sides who'll be scrapping to stay up, where exactly are the points going to come from? The only small crumb of comfort is that we can hope to pick up points at home to some of these teams next year and we're only 10 games in so still time to turn things around. However, the November games are now as I can easily see us losing the first 5 games in December.

Barring a miracle we've already blown top 6 with the games we've lost to date and top half is going to be difficult unless we can get results against the better sides (big 'if' right now). It's not just the points on the board but also who we've played. 6 defeats in 10 is basically relegation form whichever way you look at it.

Thankfully Spurs are on a bad run so here's hoping the usual Everton charity's not on offer next weekend. Lose that and alarm bells will be ringing very loud.

Everton players could play for Corporal Jones perhaps.

No he isn't, hapless and at the moment seemingly Helpless.

Seems there's only the Watford game and the lack of a decent obvious replacement keeping him here.

Exactly. I don't know how many millions Silva is on but shouldn't someone have to be some kind of genius to pick up that kind of salary?

The sooner we get rid of Silva the sooner we can start to rebuild and move up the table. If Moshiri hasn't been looking already they we really are fucked. Man for man how much better are we, should we be, against Brighton? I'd of preferred keeping Allardyce over this prick.

We have been here before many times and managed to survive JUST, this time I'm not so sure. Silva showed his usual lack of leadership today and is empty of any inspiration whatsoever. Yet his job never seems to be in doubt, that seems to be the most worrying aspect, not even a whiff of concern, so far, from the guy who took such trouble to hire him.

Unfortunately the switch from an all powerful Manager to a DoF and Coach model has harmed Everton massively.

The players don't fear the manager anymore, so they play without any concern for the consequences of losing.

When you get to that stage you are very close to a relegation mentality and that's where we are now.

Our absentee owner needs to act by removing Silva, Barrett-Baxendale and Kenwright at the same time.

Build a war cabinet and create a strategy focused first on getting us out of danger then into the new stadium in the Champions League places.

Hugely disappointing to lose another away game, especially against a fairly unimaginative and workmanlike Brighton. We were unlucky, but the way we routinely seem to capitulate tells me that Silva is never going to turn this group of players into winners.

Until results change, the reality is in real time and results, and the league doesn't lie, that's where we are as a club.

Survival, basics, and seize mentality are needed now in abundance, as until this squad shows proper, true grit, we are, going one way. In the crap, and it could be worst, come May 2020.

I love Everton, the best days of my life, and as is for many, but we the club is now exponentially drifting into a football abyss?

I will fight the good fight but this fuse of hope in an epilogue of constant decline, shows a type of terminal decline.

Money doesn't really count, but at EFC, it makes you almost irrelevant, in terms of winning silverware?

I've backed Marco Silva, and sincerely hoped he do the job but, in reality, nothing has changed and unless corrected, our net results are getting worst, pro rats.

No excuses for shit refs, shit VAR, we should not have to bring these factors into why, we can't win back to back games, and our away form is blight.

Dark days, and reality, but if there's any Chrimbo Bonus, as a wish list, let's try and get Zouma, in January, to help us stay up.

I sense Chelsea won't bargain, but we must try Zouma, and his, or better alternatives.

And I'd drop Jordan, but I doubt it will ever happen, but Kamikaze goal-keeping, shouldn't be acceptable at EFC.

Yes, Farhad's ears must be burning tonight, and is right.

The penalty decision was a disgrace and got to the players. Up to that moment, things were in good shape. Understandably, anger and frustration bubbled over and only Everton could conjure up their captain scoring a 94th-minute own-goal.

But how anyone can lay the blame at Silva's door for today is beyond me. If you don't want to blame Lee Mason, blame the players. They're the ones you'd have picked yourself based on practically every comment on TW since last Saturday.

I'd agree with you Sam that I don't believe we will be relegated by dint of the probability that – somehow! – there will be 3 worse teams than ourselves.

Like yourself I expressed a hope before the game that, in an ideal scenario, we would concede the first goal but, but then recover to win and get two monkies off our back: chalking up an away win and breaking the Vodoo of Silva's frankly appalling 22 (and counting) games of never winning a Premier League game when Everton has conceded the 1st goal.

Today marks his 48 Premier League game at Everton. In 22 of those games we have conceded the first goal (which is concerning in itself, knowing the importance of scoring 1st in any game). That returns a percentage figure of 45.83%.

That tells you that very nearly every second Premier League game, effectively, Everton can expect to concede 1st with near zero probability of registering a win from that position. Even retrieving a draw is a struggle in such scenarios. We've achieved it just 3 times in the Premier League under Silva.

Think about that. We have gained just 3 points from a possible 66 in 22 games under Silva in which we concede the first goal. 19 losses from 22 games equates to a disturbingly high 86.36% ratio.

The numbers are even worse from this season alone. Six games in 10 we have conceded the first goal - 60% of our games. 18 points. We have lost every one of them. A 100% loss ratio.

That data, those numbers, cannot be attributed to bad luck alone. They point to something(s) under Silva being fundamentally flawed.

And can anyone honestly say that those teams that have inflicted the opening goal on us to guarantee (for the most part) that they claim the 3 points have to play extraordinarily well to do so?

I would suggest no, they don't. Just do the basics. Keep your shape. Everton will have no answer.

It is a serious, serious drag on our ambitions to improve and establish ourselves in the higher echelons of the PL.

Hope, theories, great coach, state of the art coach, but the facts are the facts.

Tuesday, must be a Stoke, Victoria Ground game, Jan 1983, Bayern Munich semi-final at Goodison Park, April, 1985, atmosphere, as a minimum, to help us win the game v Watford and Flores, who will want to make a point.

Hand on heart, we are so far off the minimum desire, fitness, belief, desire, etc, and no consistency, we do need a miracle.

Let's pray for deliverance and soon.

Liverpool beat Leicester 2 weeks ago with a bent penalty that wasn't reversed by VAR. Draw your own conclusions. I am depressed.

Unforgettably Silva will use this as reason we lost again and not the fact Everton should have never been in position where they could lose the game, first goal should have been saved by a normal keeper doing the basic's and not being a show pony.

Third was plane and simple not being disciplined keeping a defensive structure then secondly no-one taking responsibility to cover for a full-back who decided to be winger in the last 10 minutes of a game instead of keeping his defensive position.

Unfortunately, once again, today clarifies we are not a top-ten team but a middle-of-the-table team trying not to get dragged into a relegation battle that we might loose under Silva.

What I believe most are criticising is the Jekyll (home) and Hyde (away) performances, let's face it these are the same players who, only a week ago played an absolute blinder and were unlucky not to have doubled the eventual score.

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but surely it is the Manager's job to not only prepare them physically for the match ahead whether it be at home or away, but also to instill the mental fortification against the opponent.

No he stands on the touchline, or in his box, shaking his head, with a look that he has just had his Teddy Bear taken off him, and that he would have to go to bed early all week with no Cocoa.

Mr Moshiri took the initiative and brought Koeman and Silva to EFC, that turned out well.

Quite frankly, I'm a bit frightened of what his next big master-stroke will be.

And by implication Brands was brought in by the current EFC hierarchy, shouldn't he go after failing to bring a genuine forward and CB in.

John, we didn't play too badly, grew into the game but it was littered with stupid individual errors. Second half we switched to 4-4-2: then 4-3-3. As has been mentioned awful var decision followed by Gomes running in circles. It has to go back to the manager.

We are in 16th. It's embarrassing, regardless of the money spent. We just need a change of manager. The squad isn't too far away. I don't know how Dowell is getting on but we need something different in midfield. Not much.

Lampard seems to be perfect for Chelsea at the moment. He wasn't scared to pick kids... however, he also knows how to organise and set up a team.

Calls for the board, Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale etc, however, are just ridiculous. The manager has been backed.

Those stats of yours are serious reading. The problem is that many of us can see how they arise, with the same old stories of weakness repeating themselves on a regular bases.

In saying that; last minute of the game, free kick and all your big men are forward; BEAT THE FIRST MAN!

Though you should be okay, as his faithful horse does not have webbed feet, or the stamina to cross the Ocean.

I also hope you have been factually accurate in those stats, you know what they say about stats!

Although we played good footy and got a good result against West Ham I did say at the time they were very poor and Brighton would be up for this.

As it turned out, Brighton were there for the taking but so are we. Forget the dubious penalty Gomes stupidly gave away a free-kick at the edge of the box (not for the first time) and the organisation of the wall was 4th division standard as was Pickford's limp-wristed attempt at palming the ball away.

As for Digne's own-goal,that was pure keystone cops defending all round.

Personally, I would drop Michael Keane with immediate effect and play Holgate and MIna and get the whole team working on our defending.

We have a serious problem of not being able to score when we are on top and being as weak as jelly defending.

Gomes needs dropping for Delph and we cannot have Iwobi and Sigurdsson in the same team.

Had this been our first defeat, then I would say unlucky and unfortunate. But it is the norm. They are a soft touch who are used to losing. It's comfortable.

The relegation teams believe they can beat us because their counterparts already have. If they keep having a go, we crumble. The mark of a coward.

They will keep picking at our bones until we are relegated.

But hey, who cares? Silva's still the saviour, right!?

The figures cant be contradicted, they are fuckin appalling. I may have already mentioned this but this an old tried and tested method?? We are losing games against teams we should be beating.

If anyone wants to retort about arrogance / 'no games being easy' bollocks then get ready to get relegated.

There may well be some validity in the claim.

However, as some have already pointed out in this thread, a couple of things also arguably contributed to the defeat.

The performance today was not as intense or as fluid as last week's victory over West Ham, even though the starting XI was the same (with the exception of Holgate for Mina) as the majority on TW seemingly canvassed for.

First, the injury to Bernard on 30 minutes and the introduction of Sigurdsspon necessitated a shuffling of the lineup and effectively a change of tactic. A bolder, possibly more effective and less disruptive change, would have been to shift Richarlison left into Bernard's position (rather than Iwobi) and introduce either Calvert-Lewin or Kean down the middle, retaining both pace and power from midfield to forwards.

You can't argue against the 2nd half introduction of Calvert-Lewin as he scored within minutes of coming on. But the simultaneous introduction of Delph and the withdrawal of Iwobi and Walcott AND the reshuffle of moving Davies forward unbalanced the shape, removed pace from the attack and narrowed the pitch.

It meant to have width especially down the right Sidibe moved forward to support the attack leaving his defensive flank more vulnerable.

Potter the Brighton manager cannily exploited this with his own substitute Trozzard raiding that space and causing us havoc and creating the winner.

So yes, the VAR decision impacted hugely on the result. But so did Silva's substitutions and tactical tweaks.

And as for the side being 'traumatized' by the VAR penalty, they get no sympathy from me on today of all days.

I got up at 5 am to watch England's rugby team absolute batter one of world sports greatest sporting institutions, the New Zealand All-Blacks.

At critical times they had two tries ruled out. It made absolutely no difference to their mental or physical state or their game plan.

Everton simply doesn't have anywhere near that level of resilience in the face of misfortune which inevitably befalls every sporting team and athlete.

Our results are consistently bad and sadly never consistently good.

Tuesday night, is massive, and could be in effect the Oxford Game - Kevin Brock, back pass to but it's Marco Silva, last stand, in my book.

The next 5 games, we will be lucky to take a net 3 points, but I want to be proved wrong.

Alas.

Jason @329, I'd question Pickford for the first. I have huge reservations about his overall game to be honest. The third was a bit of a freak and the kind of thing that happens when the shit is hitting the fan.

This is still a far cry from the last days of Roberto or Ronald. Pressing the eject pilot button now is more likely to crash the plane than letting our man try to get it back on course.

I agree with you, West Ham were very poor. There were two instances in that game.

Pickford's cross-field ball that hit Keane and Keane's poor positional play that allowed West Ham in on goal. Any of these instances could have changed the complexion of the game. Both Gomes and Davies had the advantage of space to play in midfield, when pressed in the Brighton game, they both looked very ordinary. Gomes is a player that folds when pressurised.

I know Sigurdsson scored in the West Ham game, but it is still questionable if he should be selected and his substitution appearance was tactically wrong given his performance

I also agree that Keane should be dropped for Holgate. Holgate is more reliable and his distribution is better than both Keane and Mina.

I just see Silva limping on.

Forget all that analysis, look at the games won home / away etc, under Silva.

And ask yourself: Is he the man for the job?

There was no ‘VAR travesty' as Lyndon wrote on the main match report, Keane was simply ball-watching and unaware of where his feet were during a regulation piece of defending that any Premier League player should have been capable of dealing with.

What he was looking at or imagining was happening around him, when he decided to break from the line of defenders as Brighton attacked for their winner is beyond me.

We have significant problems at centre back and they extend beyond not signing Kurt Zouma in the summer.

I don't expect Gareth Southgate will keep using Keane if he continues to play like he did today.

https://www.premierleague.com/managers/2049/Sam-Allardyce/overview

Our current manager was relegated with Hull, would probably have relegated Watford, and is heading in the same direction with us.

Moshiri will have to act. Arsène Wenger is looking for a new challenge. He is the man I would be asking to help turn around the football fortunes of this once great club.

Honest answer: He might not be. But he should be given every chance, instead of being hung drawn and quartered every time things go arse up.

Beat Watford Tuesday, draw Crawley/Colchester and the whole focus of the season changes. It's a funny old game, Brian...

Seriously we are in The Crap House, and this form and luck or no luck, we have an Everest to climb.

Survival mode plan, is needed before the Carabao Cup game.

Will Lee Mason's decision be reviewed? Of course not. The game is gone... and so will I be if this keeps up.

Same as Niasse being charged for simulation with only one other player facing the same ban, yep a team from outside the top 6

Even the likes of Merson and Co love to stick the boot in.

What makes my blood boil is one rule for one and inconsistency, none more so than the Clattenburg Derby, penalty and sending off one side, one turned down the other end, 2-footed Kung Fu feet off the floor challenge and just a yellow card.

It is not just today, we have been shafted time and again, even going back to Tony Kay.

Things even themselves up, my backside. If a rule comes in or dubious decision, you can guarantee we will be made the examples of.

He stumbled / was forced / 'told' to change it, he did, it worked.

He was 'told' by Us to keep it the same, he mostly did, but neglected to send them out with the same attitude and fight. They played within themselves, not in Brighton's face.

Silvas away policy is Moyeses old standby KITAP1.

When Bernard went off at 1-1, he went with the 'safe' Sigurdsson option. He saw moving Iwobi to fit in Siggi wasnt working

When, at 1-1 he brought on Calvert-Lewin and Delph he admitted his mistake in moving Iwobi to fit in Siggi... he can't do right for doing wrong... The clock is ticking on him.

John @ 333... "This is still a far cry from the last days of Roberto or Ronald." Is it, Is it really?

5 losses out of 6 !!

After Burnley Lyndon mentioned 4 losses from 4 was a Death Spiral... nothing much has changed.

I've mentioned the lack of a decent replacement. On second thoughts, it doesn't matter who, they'd have to be bad to do worse than 5 losses from 6 whoever they are.

Kevin Brock moments? ... the only team likely to provide of those on Tuesday will be Watford.

But hey, at least we're not Southampton.

1. We have chocolate teapot levels of fortitude whenever we face any type of adversity. We need luck to win games under him. Any form of bad luck spells defeat.

2. I read in The Athletic that he is popular with the players and they enjoy his training sessions. Yet we still concede goals / buckle under pressure in depressingly familiar fashion. When enjoyable training sessions still lead to a series of defeats, you start to wonder what they are coached to do.

3. I think he is better suited to being a trainer not manager/Head Coach, as far as the EPL. The mental/motivational and tactical aspects at this level appear beyond him.

4. Pickford's form is woeful. Lossl in my book is very average so not a ready made replacement. I can understand why it would have been difficult to sign a good Keeper as no one wants to come as a back up. But perhaps its time to take Pickford out of the firing line. I do not expect Lossl to pull up any trees but I would help Pickford work on a few weaknesses he is showing in his game.

5. I have never accepted that Brands is to blame for this situation as I believe this squad should not be performing this badly. Also even with Gana & Zouma last season we had a horrendous run of defeats. But, I do think its time for him to step up on the coaching front. It is imperative he finds a replacement and gives Silva the boot. Or, sets up a caretaker structure and lets Silva go. Whatever the case, the lack of a Plan B from Brands which would allow Silva to continue would reflect badly on him. If Silva continues then it smells of no Plan B. We are already suffering because the coach has no Plan B. If the DoF does not have one either, we really are fucked!

Horrible conditions. A well organised opposition. And we were well on top. They'd had one shot prior to Mason getting involved hadn't they?

No, I couldn't make sense of the Delph change. No, we shouldn't have collapsed as soon as they equalised.

But the penalty decision changed the game. It was the key moment in a game we were deservedly winning to that point.

And it wasn't just unlucky, it was a travesty. No-one who ever played the game thinks that's a penalty. Two players looking up at a ball in the air touch feet. How the hell do you assign blame for that one?

I'll guarantee it won't happen again. It will get highlighted internally to every VAR official that it's not the way VAR is supposed to be used. Clear and obvious? It was nothing like an obvious error and it certainly wasn't clear.

I've no time for Silva. Never wanted him, never rated him, don't think he's got a clue, and don't think he's even done particularly well with his selections in the last two weeks. But I feel for him a bit here. We didn't deserve that.

I don't mean to scapegoat, but I just don't know where to point the finger any more?

It can't be consistent as it's flexible still to the referee and his monkeys. If it's in Liverpool's box, go to VAR if it helps them, don't if it's against them. If it's in the oppositions box then go to VAR if it helps them and don't if it doesn't.

Refs should either scrap it or go for every decision in the box (a ref constantly watching the game and advising from the stands) but as it is, it just fails and stinks of favouritism.

Sorry to disappoint you but Wenger is already on record saying he won't manage another Premier League club out of respect for Arsenal.

He's produced a team in his own image – meek, no passion, unable to respond to pressure with innovative thinking.

The middle of the park lacks pace; once Bernard went off, any creativity disappeared. In the close season, we were desperate for centre-back cover – it is and will haunt us this season.

I'm sick and tired, season after season, watching the same crap whilst teams like Leicester get organised and look positively at the future and buy wisely. We spend vast sums on players like Sigurdsson, Niasse, Schneiderlin... and produce dross.

Whilst Silva isn't entirely to blame for the current sad situation, it has to be said he has been clueless with team selection and in-game tactics. Sorry, Marco, time is up.

People saying Holgate had a good game are just conditioned to how poor we are at the moment. I'd certainly be selecting him ahead of Keane (who I'd give away to any club for free), but for a third-choice centre-half is a physically unintimidating, inexperienced player like him is criminal. 23 is not as young as some people would have you believe.

The mentality and skill level of the club is garbage from top to bottom. It cannot be a coincidence that players come in and are mentally weak and fail to do the basics right. Misplaced passes, players ignoring a pass and then running themselves into trouble, having to trap a ball every time before striking it – that is all amateur shit.

I know some people hold a grudge against Benitez for his 'small club' comments, but in all honesty, was he wrong? I've been championing his appointment for about four years now and I'm not going to stop. Some fans would honestly rather see Everton relegated with Unsworth than succeed with a manager like him and that is very sad.

As has been said earlier, the Championship would gobble Everton up and swallow – the club just does not have the bottle to compete in that league.

I agree with you about Benitez he did call us a small club. Lets be honest all managers play mind games. Anyway was he that far wrong, at the moment the only thing making us a big club is, our the fans who turn up week in week out.

Great away support (must be the envy of many clubs) and the players cant be bothered to perform for them. Even the so-called smaller clubs are leaving us behind, Leicester.

We need a winning manager and I don't care where he is from. I'm sick of these no-mark managers playing the same shit, season after season. It's time to get ruthless.

A pissed-off Blue.

'He knew his mind and knew his plan. A team with total belief in who they were and what they were trying to do. As much as that comes from within, it comes from the environment created by the coach and the management.'

Just pointing out he has never been relegated in 16 seasons, saved at least one club from relegation, and when appointed as West Ham manager after they had been relegated, he brought them back up in his first season and kept them there for two seasons until they punted him.

Jay #351 – that is disappointing. Moshiri will have to look elsewhere then.

Embarrassing decision to give a penalty,

Embarrassing that Gomes keeps giving away needless petty fouls on the edge of the box. I have to blame both player and manager for this, he has to be told to stop doing it.

Embarrassing keeping from Pickford again. Most overrated goalkeeper we've ever had. Can't stand him. Needs dropping. Capable of brilliant saves but awful at the basics of the position.

And worst of all, yet another embarrassing mental capitulation from the whole team after the injustice of the farce that is the current VAR system.

But then everything was wrong with this goal, starting from Gomes's terrible effort at defending and, again, not for the first time. But then, there seems to be so much wrong, and repeatedly, that a decent coach may have sorted some of it by now.

I'm with you re Benitez. But I can't see it happening.

Also, we never get into competition with top 4 clubs when it comes to buying players. Why? Because players that attract top 4 clubs don't want to join us, as we have nothing to offer them, not even the Europa League.

If Silva said that he does not want to change the culture of the club, it does indeed send alarm bells ringing.

Moshri, in buying the club, did not appear to realise the importance of changing the club's culture. In his first interview, Brands talked of building on the traditions of Everton, which I now realise I was wrong in assuming was building on the best English football tradition. He also was referring to not changing the culture.

The one thing that definitely needs changing is the culture that has left Everton 15 years out-of-date in facilities and with a poor performing team for over 20 years. What's more, Everton will continue with poor facilities and a poorly performing team into the future if this is the prevailing attitude of the new recruits to the Everton cause, whose first priority should be to change it.

Everton are no longer the Aston Villa lookalike, as Aston Villa have been relegated, got promoted and higher up the table than Everton. They have also deservedly beaten us this season.

Everton are now a standalone disgrace, with a very poor management culture.

The lack of resilience, game-management and grit is evident both to the eye and to the statistics lovers. And the sample size is growing. I still think that Silva does some good things, that this team is not that far from hitting the form we saw at the end of last season. But the small margins continue to go against us and ultimately that is the job of the manager – to make sure those small margins that decide a match fall your way. Make your own luck.

We won't get relegated though, in my view, and therefore I would stay well away from Moyes (and I was an ‘apologist' back in the day) and other such firefighters. Sack Silva only if this form continues and, crucially, if Brands has the right next manager lined up.

There are some interesting options out there (Gallardo, Rose, Hutter, Arteta, Allegri etc) but mid-season may not be the best time to snaffle the best man. Timing could be key.

I know nothing more than the rest of you but I have past form in predicting what's going to happen:

What Big Sam's appointment would say about the current state of Everton FC

Unfortunately you're right. We have been left that far behind; it's going to be hard to attract a top manager.

Where do we go from here? I don't know... but big matches are coming and we could be in deep shit. We need major surgery and quickly.

It's been thrown around, and rightly so, that our squad is mentally weak and when it went 2-2 yesterday we should have channeled our anger and aggression into a desire to win that game but the match finished with us pegged back by Brighton, we couldn't even hold on to the draw.

We probably won't go down but I have no doubts whatsoever that, come late January, after a glance at the fixtures ahead of us, we will be in a battle to stave off the bottom three or four clubs.

The Moshiri tenure lurches from one disaster to another, poor managerial choices, too much money spent on mentally weak players from relegation haunted clubs (Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson come to mind) too much spent on other clubs' cast-offs, too much invested in lads with no experience of the English league (will Moise Kean ever even score or is he going to be another Sandro here?)

It's just been a pure farce.

We have lost 5 in 6. Our next 3 Premier League games in November are against our of sorts Spurs, and fellow relegation candidates Norwich and Southampton. 7 points minimum required.

December follows with games against Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. Then 2 'more winnable' games, followed by Man City on New Year's Day.

That is scary, that is a run of games that could send us into a serious relegation battle. All in the same season 'they' will likely win the Premier League.

How anyone is still defending Silva with this being a feasible outcome is beyond me.

Nothing will change at Everton whilst Kenwright still has influence.

I've wanted Silva out since the build-up to Huddersfield away last year. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat in that one, but my opinion has stayed the same.

I wasn't asking if you were there! I quoted you saying you were there and asked a question.

Richarlison gets wrestled to the ground with his shirt being dragged out of sight of the ref. This gets overlooked.

Keane accidentally puts his foot on the Brighton man's foot whilst trying to get in a clearing header. He's got to put his foot somewhere whilst they are both looking in the air for the header! And he doesn't know where the Brighton man is going to move to prior to that.

It's an absolute joke of a decision, the first pen to be awarded against the ref's decision this season.

Everton deserve an apology from Lee Mason and the Premier League. It cost us 3 points and has killed the fragile momentum.

Nothing less than a sincere apology will suffice, I won't hold my breath for it. Shame they can't be sued for their complete negligence.

We all get some things right and some things wrong. I know Keane is average at best, and predicted Brighton would cause him problems, but that was a simple one really because, if you watch Everton every week, it's easy to see Keane causes himself problems, because it's like he can't see both the ball and his opponent at the same time and a forward doesn't have to produce much movement to lose Keane, who then loses sight of the ball.

He's poor unless you defend deep, and Silva doesn't want his team to defend deep, so I can't understand why he's been playing him.

The biggest problem is what I said yesterday's commentator said about how Everton only play with intensity at Goodison (and that's if we are lucky) but never away from home, and a manager who keeps selecting certain players when it's obvious there are better players not getting a game.

VAR is certainly ruining the game but I think the bigger issue is assessing what actually constitutes a foul. If this kind of contact is a free-kick then the players are literally unable to touch one another.

Why is football becoming such a non-contact sport? You speak to any fan and nobody likes it, yet we are still getting pushed in that direction.

Two different Directors of Football have chosen this mess of a squad and Silva is a terrible manager (who Moshiri moved heaven and earth to appoint for some reason). That's why we are where we are.

We were much better run in the Kenwright years.

My view and perception of Moshiri became very clouded when he appointed Allardyce in a pure panic move back in November 2017; why he needed a troubleshooter so early on in the season was pathetic judgment on his part. We wouldn't have been relegated if Koeman had stayed, Koeman had a horror run of fixtures in the autumn coupled with Europe to contend with.

So it's no shock that Moshiri got the appointment of Silva muddled up either. Headhunting a man with nothing but relegation in England on his CV was just weird, especially when he sacked a similar manager in Martinez when he first took over in 2016.

This boring, nihilistic Groundhog Day crap week after week has rendered me completely numb to all the missed chances, brain dead defending, non existent tactical variety, typical “Everton that” VAR calls or even the basic failure of most of our extremely well-paid playing & coaching staff to show any heart or soul.

England were absolutely epic in the rugby yesterday; Wales have their biggest game in years coming up now, the NFL season is hotting up and basketball is back. Maybe start watching your local non-league team? Do some grassroots coaching? Cycling? Swimming?!! I'm serious.

There are loads more useful and fulfilling things to do than worrying about whether Michael Keane stepped on someone's toe or Lee Mason is a corrupt oaf. I'll try to follow my own advice by leaving it there but basically don't let Everton grind you down!

Peter Walton said a good thing, why didn't the ref check the screen himself? (I take it there should be one on the side of the pitch?) – especially when it supposedly took Mason 14 views to decide it was a pen (the refs had probably watched the rugby and seen how much easier they dealt with key decisions yesterday morning) but people are human, and humans usually like some people or things and hate others, so without transparency (rugby) we will always get unfair decisions.

Walton was in the studio when Liverpool lost in the Nou Camp last season, and when Messi wanted a penalty for a handball, Walton said it was never a penalty. I actually agreed with him, but when talking about it with others, I said I'm sure he would contradict himself within the next few weeks, and sure enough when Liverpool got a penalty in the final, old Peter Walton said they'd been giving them all year for this type of offence in the Champions League.

The 3rd goal is a case in point: Sidibe is lost upfield as our attack breaks down. We are desperately trying to get a winner in a game that has been thrown wide open. The midfield are all out of position and when the cross is thrown in a stretching Digne pops it past Pickford. Everyone was struggling as soon as we lost the ball.

Even with Gomes and Delph on the park there wasn't a cool head that thought "Hey we could settle for a point away from home". It wouldn't have been the end of the world. We had been cheated (most people in the media agree) by Lee Mason, but we would have still gone home with a point and the moral high ground (for what it's worth).

However the naivety of the coach and players led us to blow-up in the 4th minute of injury time. Daft as fuck.

Understood.

Still drying out 🌧

Makes me wonder why the John Jay Moores and Charles Noell takeover ended then Moshiri stepped in. I do remember they were talking about the stadium straight away. Would we have been any better off?

That penalty is not a penalty in any circumstances. Standing on someone's foot in the way that incident occurred is not even a foul outside the box. Without this, the 3rd goal doesn't happen.

Sack Silva, it is not going to work out. His record at Everton and his previous clubs shows this. I would welcome concrete evidence that he is the man for the job. Appoint Benitez. Whether those frothing at the mouth about his Liverpool past like it or not, he was correct when calling us a little club. They regularly gave us a pasting when he was manager and I think he made the comments after we frustrated them in a drawn derby match by 'parking the bus'.

We haven't won at Anfield for 20 years and have beaten them at home possibly 3 or 4 times in the same period and haven't won a cup in 25 years, so as manager of Liverpool, his opinion was/is valid. I want a manager who believes in his ability and moulds a team to win football games and if you lose, he then demands more.

Of course the cowardly board won't appoint such a man because of his past and also because he will come in, clear out the deadwood (staff and players) and make demands on the oh-so-cushy hierarchy who sit like zombies and talk shite about EitC, The People's Club and reminisce about league wins 35 years ago.

I remember the great days of the eighties and it was a fantastic time to support the Blues coming home for the game from Uni. However at the Sheffield Utd game when they were promoting the latest film, Howard's Way. I was cringing with embarrassment rather than thinking, "I must buy this." How sad, but the constant failures have got me to the stage where I still love Everton (that cannot change) but I just shrug my shoulders and think,"Well what do you expect? It's typical Everton."

Change the ethos, get a winning manager and end this stale, static, losing mentality from top to bottom. I dread every day that Moshiri will stop the cash and we will fall into the abyss with a large squad on big money and long contracts and an owner who wants out because he cannot make it work.

Tony (378), if I asked you who would you bring in as a coach to solve these defensive frailties and to vastly improve the quality of Keane's performances I know who you would suggest: Alan Stubbs, 10 minutes away from the ground.

Whoever is the defensive coach is he is doing nothing to improve the shambles that constitutes Everton back four, they haven't got a clue, the coach and the back four.

Going on Tuesday, Everton will play better and differently, simply because we are at home, pathetic! I'd love the crowd to greet them with silence when they run onto the field. It won't happen, of course. They will be welcomed with applause, silence might make them think and nudge their conscience. Nah, what am I thinking of, today's players, with a conscience... showing my age there I'm afraid.

Yesterday just showed the awful the signings made by Walsh and the Dutchman were during their period in charge. Pickford and Keane are at best moderate and, while he did not start yesterday, Siggy has been a major let down. Pochettino did not move him on for nothing.

One positive from yesterday was the continued goal-scoring form of Dominic Calvert-Lewin, 5 from the last 5 games that he played some part in.

Even the great Ken Buckley would find it hard to take any joy from the current state of affairs.

I've made the tactical error today of not factoring in the clocks going back an hour in the UK overnight and got up an hour earlier than necessary to watch the Wales - South Africa Rugby World Cup semi-final.

With some time to kill before the game kicks off, I've painstakingly and carefully looked back at Marco Silva's 55 game career as Everton's manager. I did this because different reports give different numbers on the 'Everton-never-win-under-Silva-when-the-opposition-scores-first' stat. Even in yesterday's match report on the BBC it gives that number as 24 Premier Leagues games, 20 defeats, 4 draws.

I can categorically say that is not accurate. The absolutely true and accurate data is as follows:

In the Premier League ONLY the record reads:

P 21 W 0 D 3 L 18 F 13 A 41 Pts 3 (from a possible 63, a minus goal difference of 28)

To that, you can add two League Cup games in which the opposition scored first: Home to Southampton (d 1-1, lost 4-5 on pens); Away to Lincoln, the ONLY game under Marco when we got up to win having conceded the opening goal, 4-2.

The game is now about to KO, so when I get time, I will adjust the percentages from my earlier post @ 317 to reflect the true numbers.

Another startling thing from this deeper research is just how heavily we have been outscored in this set of data.

Now... cummon Wales!!! I'd love an England-Wales final.

Once more, an inept performance from a completely uncoordinated, ill-prepared, uncoached, unprofessional, ill-disciplined and lackadaisical so called football club.

The owners will never employ a leader who tells them to keep there nose out of the football bit and just supply money when required. Back-slapping free-loaders the lot of them.

The formality of relegation is now nearer than ever — just take a look at the teams who they've lost to in the last 12 months, it is alarming.

As shown on MotD, this incident was viewed by VAR and no penalty awarded – deemed by whoever the VAR ref was to not be ‘clear and obvious'. Yet, a similar incident with Everton yesterday deemed worthy of a penalty. For me, VAR therefore resolves nothing as making the right calls are still at the behest of individual opinion.

However, I think it is a bit rich blaming VAR and bad luck for our defeat yesterday. Teams struggling at the wrong end of the table often feel luck is not on their side, but it papers over the cracks.

It would not even have been considered against particular clubs. In effect, we now officially have different rules for different clubs.

The silence from the empty vessel that Everton FC has become is deafening and disgraceful. As usual. We're like a bullied kid in the playground who won't stand up for himself and let everyone just walk all over us. Sickening.

The penalty yesterday defied all logic especially when compared to the Richarlison incident and surely adds fuel to the hidden agenda argument. Football over the years has had its fair share of scandals so why would a bias against one team be so unusual?

Also factor in we have been on the wrong end of dodgy decisions for years... Maine Road 77 etc – it makes merely adds to the argument.

The players entering the field in total silence is a great suggestion, It would certainly prove a point.

It's easy for you to say that it's a bit rich blaming VAR for yesterday but used correctly, and honestly, we would have won 2-3. VAR, in its present form, is not fit for purpose, takes too long, and is open to an individuals interpretation of the rules.

“Clear and obvious” decisions don't take 2 minutes of watching slow-motion replays from every angle to come to a decision that is still incorrect. 10 or 15 seconds should be the maximum amount of time to view the incident and previous precedent should be adhered to. Too much dishonesty in the present VAR version.

I'd also agree with a post above saying the next three league matches should yield 7 points to be deemed acceptable – we'll probably get 2 points at most – but you can just see that Everton will play Spurs into form next week.

I think I'm entitled like anyone else to raise issues relating to our approach yesterday, Ray. I thought conceding a free-kick for the first was naive and unnecessary. The setting up of the wall was also at fault.

I thought we were unlucky with the penalty, but we didn't manage the game properly when it was 2 2 - we did what we often do. The stats provided by Jay above outline our appalling record on our travels, so I think we are lacking in the right approach, tactics and mentality when faced with adversity especially away from home.

I think that is down to poor coaching and management and I don't think that has anything to do with luck or poor refereeing VAR or otherwise.

I'm done here. Later everyone.

Everton have spent 𧴜s of millions in the two summers, including 㿭 million on two forwards Tosun and Kean who can't get on the park. Our current manager has managed two other clubs in the Premier League and three on the continent yet we are going along like a three-legged donkey.

So why is there such a difference in fortunes? It's the attitude of the manager. Lampard was a winner as a player and he has instilled this attitude into his players. He is prepared to take risks and has shown faith in his youngsters who have repaid his faith by winning games playing attacking, exciting football.

Silva is not a winner and it shows. He is cautious and has no faith in his players at all. When Bernard went off yesterday, he could have put Kean on but he didn't; on came Sigurdsson instead who immediately disappeared. Eventually we ended up with Delph and Calvert-Lewin on and what happened? we fell apart and lost as usual.

Unless our fortunes miraculously improve in the coming games, there is no doubt Silva is going to get the boot. When he looks back, he will realise a combination of his own excessive caution and lack of faith is what caused it.

I've read somewhere this morning that Lee Mason needed to look 14 times at the so-called penalty, which means to me it was not a clear and obvious error by the referee, and therefore it shouldn't have been awarded.

Lee Mason is one shit referee. Why should he be any different just because he's sitting in a box somewhere away from the stadium, he will still make the same shit mistakes looking at a TV.

I've also read that many pundits have also ridiculed the decision, with many ex players saying it was not a penalty. We all know that decision would not have been given against Liverpool, or any of the other Sky darlings.

Ok, who's to know what the final result would have been without the penalty being given? We could maybe have still lost or drew, or gone on and scored ourselves and won comfortably, but FFS, let's try and be consistent and fair with the VAR decisions.

As I said, to look at it 14 times surely means it cannot be an obvious penalty? No doubt someone will correct me and say there was contact, or whatever it was Keane did, and it was a penalty, but football is a contact sport, and there are going to be times when there is contact in the penalty area and it's not a penalty.

VAR is totally ruining the game and it is going to drive more and more people away from the game.

I guess Silva will be the sacrificial lamb when the axe falls but what type of manager is likely to get results from this spineless mob?

Will he again look to a defensive saviour such as Moyes, Pardew or Houghton or will it be time for the manager of Burnley or Bournemouth to be invited to step up to the plate? Of course, if the DoF avoids the cull, it is likely to be yet another Johnny Come Lately in the image of Silva and his foreign predecessors!

Lose at Watford and I'm betting it will all happen in the next seven days!

But back to the corrected data referenced in my posts @ 317 and 391.

The burdensome stat of Silva's Everton never winning a Premier League game in which they concede the 1st goal gets reported at different numbers.

The following is most definitely 100% accurate.

In total, Silva has managed 55 Everton games, 48 of those in the Premier League.

Silva's 'score first and fail to win' stat in Premier League games only reads:

P 21 W 0 D 3 L 18 F 13 A 41 Pts 3 (out of a possible 63, with a minus 28 goal difference)

That translates as 21 of 48 Premier League games – 43.75% of all Premier League games we play – we have near zero chance of winning having conceded the 1st goal.

That number is even starker when calculating the 18 losses v the 21 games in which we concede 1st - 85.71%.

This season alone it is even more dismal. 6 losses in 10 Premier League games – 60%. 6 out of 6 losses in games we concede 1st – 100%.

The goals for and against are also damning. Just 13 scored and 41 conceded in those 21 games for a minus 28 goal difference.

We have failed to register a single goal in nearly half of those games – 10 out of 21.

As I wrote earlier, these damning numbers are a serious drag on our ambitions to climb the league.

And can anyone honestly say that, within those 21 games, teams had to play extraordinarily well to inflict on us the results they did?

I would suggest no. Just do the basics. Be organized and if you score the 1st goal that is pretty much 'job done' against Marco Silva's Everton.

The bad signings made and money pissed up the wall is all these losers have in common.

Surely this can't and won't be tolerated for much longer by Board and fans. The big question being have they got someone in mind, or will they take the fireman / caretaker route until the target becomes available?

Or our squad just isn't as good as the likes of Brighton, Aston Villa, Bournemouth. I can't believe it's the squad. Nor one or two individual players, as conceded goals have come from mistakes from various players.

Has anybody honestly been able to defend Silva for so long?

Right, here we go .

Sorry Jordan, you should have saved the free kick, even though it was hit with such power.

Definite penalty on Richarlison. He's wrestled to the ground from the corner and a clear penalty. Not referred to VAR.

The big one Never a penalty a million years for Brighton. The ball is in the air and Keane has his eyes on the ball, with occasional glances at the Brighton player. He's not looking at the Brighton player at the point of contact. He accidentally steps on his foot and he goes down. How the fuck can Mason give that as a penalty? Mason needs to be brought to account for that.

The game was littered with individual errors. I feel a bit sorry for Silva. Having said that, I strongly feel he is not the person to take us forward, and anything less than progress in the Carabao Cup on Tuesday against a seriously out-of-form Watford must see him gone.

I suspect it could be Moyes, if Kenwright is still a flea in Moshiri's ear. He would be better than this clown, though not popular with most fans.

If we stick with Silva, the chances of us having similar decisions as yesterday going against us next season will be greatly reduced.

They don't have VAR in the Championship...

The smile turned to laughter when I logged on here to see the stattos chasing themselves up their own arses again. Will they ever learn?

Silva is taking a kicking and rightly so. Yesterday's defeat happened on his watch, but there was so much about yesterday's match which was out of the control of any manager.

Daft-arsed stats didn't lose us the game. A combination of desperately poor decisions from the officials and shite by the players did that.

We shall beat Watford Reserves 4-0 with Calvert-Lewin notching a hat-trick. All will be well with the world and Silva's future will depend on us getting to Wembley!

Let's see what Tuesday will bring. It won't paper over any of the gaping chasms that we have seen this season but I'm so desperately hoping we can go further in this competition – if only to give us a little light relief to the inconsistent shite being served up in the Premier League.

Five away games against beatable sides have yielded just ONE point; anyone who thinks this isn't relegation form needs a reality check.

I'm starting to think being turned over by Watford may be in the best interests of the club because surely that would be the end for Silva.

How can you blame Kenwright for what's happening on the pitch?

The last two managers (Koeman & Silva) were chosen and pursued by Moshiri (illegally) and Brands has brought in the current crop of players.

It just doesn't make sense to blame Kenwright anymore.

Under the management of Silva, his record this season of 3 wins 1 draw and 6 losses doesn't look very good and his overall record at Everton of 54 games (22 wins, 11 draws and 21 losses) does not look top 6 management.

Everton are his 3rd team in the Premier League. He joined Hull City on 5 January 2017 and they were relegated. At his next club, Watford, before he was fired, they at one time only had 5 pts from a possible 30.

At the end of last season, he had Everton in a respectable position with the promise of funds for transfers for the start of the next season... so what happened?

They lost 2 players from last season. They signed 1 player to fill the position of midfield but unfortunately he is injured. They spent the whole of the transfer window trying to sign a player that Chelsea told them they would not be selling. Between Silva and Brands, Everton brought in a number of other players to strengthen the side for this season, so what happened?

Everton are a large organization with a large number of employees – all geared to one thing and that is their Premier League Team. Failure at this level is strictly in the hands of Brands as Director of Football and mostly Silva and his coaches who work under him.

FACT: Brands supplied names of who were available to Silva and they bought the players they could come to an agreement with.

FACT: now these players come under the supervision of Silva and his coaches, so any failures are his responsibility, and his team selection and game management are showing his faults that he will not willingly change.

FACT: Silva is not and will not become a top 6 Premier League manager.

FACT: the Board and owner are responsible for the poor hiring of previous managers.

What happens now? There does not seem to be any top manager available at this time, that will not involve heavy negotiations with their present clubs. (Just because you have money does not mean you can always get what you want.)

So, through poor management from the top to Silva, Everton are sliding down from a top prospect to a has-been club and with no-one that seems to have the balls to make the tough decisions to change it.

Everton as a club may be hurting but the people who are hurting the most are its supporters, and these are the people that the club can ill-afford to lose, many of whom have supported this fine club home and away before most of these board members, managers, players and coaches came here.

Depending on the answer, that may be the reason his name keeps coming up.

However, good teams can take this. We are mentally weak. The coach seems, to me, mentally weak. We have a relegation profile and I believe we must act now.

Two other things. Ash, @ 419, your post is unfair. Steve Ferns is a proper Evertonian, not smug, but passionate. I disagree with him, though. Silva must go. Secondly, Holgate and Mina must be first-choice. Keane is just poor. Holgate will be good, very good.

Notwithstanding Soton's recent showings, which are mitigated to some extent by the car crash that the club is just now, does anyone with more knowledge than myself consider he could be a viable alternative to Silva?

There are about 5 board members but Moshiri, himself, is not actually one of them.

You're both fond of evoking the strawman argument, but both poor in understanding and applying it.

The presented (disturbing) data is indisputable fact. It is not claimed that that data lost us yesterday's game. The defeat simply extended that data. The actual causes of the defeat and the data are mutually exclusive.

If you want a tactical analysis of what contributed to yesterday's defeat, read post 331.

Other than the VAR decision, what else about yesterday's match was "out of the control of ANY manager" as you claim? Were the following "out of Silva's control?"

* His choice of substitutions?
* His tactical adjustments in-game?
(Both of the above led to a withdrawal of a balanced formation, speed and width, particularly to the forward line)
* His failure to improve Gomes' tendency to give away cheap free kicks within shooting range?
* His failure to ensure his goalkeeper and defence construct a solid defensive wall from said free kick?
* His failure to take note of the growing influence of Brighton's substitute Trozzard raiding our right flank causing us havoc and creating the winner, whilst continuing to allow Sidibe to support our attack? (watch where Sidibe is - 70 yards from protecting our penalty - when the ball breaks down around their penalty area).
* His continuing inability to instil resilience and belief in his team whenever any inevitable misfortune befalls us? (Only one team looked like winning in the final 15 minutes)

In professional sport, the very best teams, the very best athletes, are just that because they don't crumple at the first reversal that chins them. Hell, even the most modest of teams and athletes can achieve more than their ability suggests by having the desire, the strength, the resilience, to not meekly surrender at any time.

The game was not lost due solely to the dreadful VAR decision, or "desperately poor decisions from the officials." The scoreline was still 2-2 at that point.

We - the manager and the players under his charge - contributed MUCH more to our defeat yesterday than anything the match officials or even the opposition did.

The stats you apparently revile so much reveal very starkly just how much of a drag they are on our desire to see progress in the league.

Only someone very dumb, or dumber, can fail to acknowledge that, or stupidly claim that a 'statto' has argued the data was responsible for yesterday's defeat.

It's not even a white lie. It's a big fat one.

And could Silva be unwittingly signing his own death warrant? Talking to a friend last night, who happens to be Italian, and who watched the game yesterday, he said to me, "Why is Silva not using Moise Kean? Juve is a bigger club than Everton, (couldn't argue with that), and they trusted him and he scored goals, Italy is bigger team than England, (maybe), they trusted him and he scored goals. He will score goals for Everton but only if he gets regular games. What makes Silva a better judge than the managers of Juve and the Italian national team?"

I couldn't argue with him. His points made sense. When Bernard was injured yesterday, it was an ideal opportunity to give Kean some meaningful game time and Premier League experience, sp what did Silva do? Sent Soggy Siggy on, who took away the creativity from the team and disrupted our rhythm completely.

Surely it's time to give Moise Kean an opportunity to show what he can do, and I don't mean one game and then back to the bench. Show some faith in youth, Marco, isn't that what we were promised?

Either way, our form is relegation form, 6 defeats in 7, just pathetic and any other club would have wielded the axe by now, but of course, we're Everton and the board (Moshiri) will probably wait until it's too late before getting rid of one of the worst managers I've seen in 60 years supporting this once great club.

That makes scary reading and your final line

"Be organized and if you score the 1st goal that is pretty much 'job done' against Marco Silva's Everton"

Pretty much sums up Everton under Marco Silva.

It's more anger than hurt, Dave.
Anger that this manager keeps on committing the same errors game after game.
Anger at the lack of action by the board.
Anger that, once again, we're having a train wreck of a season.

Too many Bills!!

FUCK THIS VAR OFF!!

Had something been said??

Its killing the game. That decision against Keane was shameful. Those who have played will know that when two players go for a ball in the air with their eyes on the ball, one will often come down on top of or stand on the other.

If that's a foul. The games finished

It is ruining the game though.

Along with Brands and Kenwright that's it.

I think that in Silva's case the opinion of Brands will be pivotal.

I agree totally with both of your comments regarding the continuing criticism of Bill Kenwright.

There is no doubt in my mind that the club was run in a more sensible way when he was the major shareholder.

Yes, of course he made mistakes, the Martinez appointment being the major one, and perhaps the Kings Dock project could have been more effectively managed from a funding point of view. However, overall he steered the club safely through very difficult times when finances were severely constrained after Peter Johnson departed and throughout his time in control premiership status was preserved.

I doubt very much that he was instrumental in the appointment of Steve Walsh or Marcel Brands and it seems highly unlikely that either Koeman or Silva would have been at the top of his list as manager/ head coach.

There is no way that the present precarious position can be attributed to Bill

As usual an accurate report of the game particularly the fact that we wilted completely after the penalty. I posted earlier but that was immediately after the game. I retrospect I feel that I underestimated just how much the penalty decision affected the remainder of the game. It not only was detrimental to Evertons last fifteen minutes but gave Brighton an impetus that hadn't been seen for the previous seventy five minutes.

One of my reasons for staying away from posting was that some supporters have tended to dominate postings to an excessive degree. Another was because some responses are rude far beyond what could be called honest criticism.

However back to the topic and the Brighton game. Any fan who was fanatical and brave enough to make the 600 mile plus round trip deserves only compliments. Ray (294).was an example of such a fan. For that reason I think that Mark(308) who described him as a 'cantankerous old fool with a waterlogged brain needs some introspection. Mark, all he did was disagree with you. You are the one who just needs to relax !!!

In the penalty box, If a defender sticks his foot out to kick the ball, but trips the forward over instead, the referee cannot ignore this, it may not be deliberate, but still an "Accidental" penalty is given.

Keane had his eye on the ball, but contact was still made with their forward bringing him down, it was accidental, but still a penalty as above.

What's not to understand about that?

What's not to understand about that?

It doesn't matter if Keane was limbo dancing, cart wheeling or levitating his way around the their player, there was contact, he stood on their players ankle/achillies area and he went to ground.

The VAR ref gave a decision based on that contact, that's easy to understand!

Whether the player was really hurt or not, we'll never know, but it doesn't matter the decision was correct according to the laws of the game.

Rob, you're one of a good few on here who are seeing this through angry eyes. When this happens to one of our players up the other end, I doubt you'd say never a pen, let's move on.

Yes you're right I think there will be more penalties that in the past would have been regarded as being "a bit soft". They will under the "strictest rules" of the game be genuine penalties.

We've got Richarlison and we should win a few off him.

Rob, it's no longer a man's game. I wen't to my 8-year-old nephew's game and there were kids diving in that game and being told to get up. I wonder where they get this behaviour from?

The majority of teams are all as good/bad as each other and keep beating one another – the plus side is that there are teams and squads that are shitter than us (amazingly), so we'll stay up.

A kopite mate of mine was saying today how he can't understand our plight – from the outside, he reckons we have one of the better squads in the division, but something just needs to click to get us going. I rarely listen to them, but I hope he's right.

You can see the same pattern of late – we start shit, get slowly better, then finish strong and end up comfortably 8th(-ish). Mediocre Everton continues.

In our situation yesterday, it unfolded like this:

1. Keane accidentally steps on the guy's foot and he acts like he stepped on a land mine;

2. VAR ref (Lee Goddamn Mason no less) whispers in Madley's ear that he may have missed something and we're going to take a look (well within VAR's guidelines);

3. Mason watches it 14 fucking times and radios back to Madley that it could be a foul... here's where it breaks down;

4. Madley allows Mason's suggestion to be the final ruling without even using the sideline monitor!

So the guy who originally said 'no foul' allowed his feeble mind to be changed without ever even looking at it again himself. Completely unacceptable! Simply looking at the monitor would have afforded him the opportunity to say "Thanks, Lee, but, to me, it was totally accidental and I'm sticking with no foul."

Instead, you get the worst officiated professional league in existence to continue to hold that title.

VAR works perfectly. The humans are the morons.

So Madley goes by Mason's decision and gives the penalty, having not seen a replay of the incident. Madley then goes home and watched the incident several times over, and thinks to himself "shit I don't think that was a penalty, maybe I should have used the touchline monitor".

I think from now on, it should be made compulsory for all on-pitch referees to take a look at the touchline monitor if the VAR official thinks a penalty is the right decision.

Kenwright is still chairman and Moshiri has already said he runs football matters. Who the hell do you think sold Lukaku and brought Rooney back on 𧵎k a week?? That sure as hell wasn't Moshiri or Koeman.

Brands was on record a few months ago stating that Kenwright had to okay transfers.

Kenwright's ego is much bigger than his ability and the sooner him and Barrett-Baxendale and the other Kenwright pantomime figures are out of the club, the sooner we will progress.

A succession of failed managers since Moyes suggests there is more wrong at the club than just the coaching – although why we gave the job to Silva or Martinez, I will never know.

Sadly kids are all imitating what they see Premier League players do – and it's not a recent thing. 10 years ago, my son became disenchanted with football when he watched the same lads he played rugby with, feigning injury, arguing with the ref and, in one case, reacting with a perfect Thierry Henry “Galic Shrug” of the shoulders every time a decision went against him.

Richarlison is always throwing himself to the ground – usually for little or no reason. If I was a ref, my initial conclusion would be that he was over-reacting (because he usually does).

Even if we beat them, does anyone seriously believe that we could win the Carabao Cup with Silva in charge?

Yes you're right it's the on field ref has final say, but I doubt any on field would will question the decision of the VAR ref very often.

It would be better if the on-field ref had seen the tv footage for himself, but the Women's World Cup put an end to that possibility – it was adding 10 minutes onto every game.

Anyway, he instructed all officials to NOT use the sideline monitors because apparently the entirety of Great Britain is deathly afraid of "slowing the game down." Completely irrational. The average review (in the leagues where VAR is used as it's supposed to be used, aka all of them besides the EPL) takes less than 90 seconds and those are only the difficult ones like ours might have been.

The truth is that most reviews are done and over in less than 30 seconds, and an average football match has just about 30 minutes of the ball not even being in play!

No one would even notice or remember those crucial 60-90 seconds but they sure would remember the call being correct. So the whole "it slows down the game" complaint is unfounded and a complete farce.

Just further points to the ineptitude and corrupt nature of EPL officiating. It sucks.

So rather than proving himself right, he conceded to VAR and essentially said "Durrr, I'm an idiot and was wrong." Again, without double-checking it his damned self! If you have that much doubt in your own abilities and judgment, you have no business collecting a paycheck as a professional referee.

VAR, as applied now, is shite. It looks at the wrong things, in the wrong way, all the usual whinges. There's even by default a two-teir 'Accidental Handball' rule now. It's either an accident or it isn't, not depending where in the pitch it happens, ffs.

Some said it would be a total dog's breakfast beforehand but were, if not shouted down, then 'over-ruled' about VAR – it's the modern way, we need it, get with it, etc.

Who was right?

Everton FC is still being run in the same manner as VAR -– poorly.

You don't often get what you deserve, but you usually deserve what you get.

Yep, football is a thoroughly dishonourable sport.

I love watching rugby and admire the lads who play it, the respect they show for each other, the rules and the ref is marvellous to behold.

It's one of my greatest regrets that I never got to play it, my Liverpool Labour-run Protestant comprehensive school wouldn't even contemplate such a ruffians sport to be played by the sons of the working class.

Begs the question why I'm even typing this shite on an Everton fan-site I suppose, but I'm infected, for all my fucking life, in support of the Nirvana I still cling to, in trying to achieve the status of a trophy-winning team.

What did I do to deserve this?

Yet the officials are the ones called inept, crooked and biased

In the arms race to win things and stay relevant, it's the players that are morally bankrupt.

Let's mic the referees up and we'll see what little bastards the players are. Referees need the right of reply and to fight their corner.

But, the more they are abused, misunderstood and held to a standard they cannot possibly reach, the less people want to officiate. You'll be desperate for the halcyon days of Hackett, Poll, Durkin and Webb.

It'll be like the boxing match in Porridge. Everyone flat on their back.

Wasn't it you who pointed out that the Premier League refs have been instructed to not use the sideline booth review? Apologies if not, but by omitting that crucial component, they're effectively neutering their own decision-making and handing it over to the video guys. That alone defeats the entire purpose of having VAR at all.

We should debate this over a beer... 🙂

Cheating has been incorporated into football for years now, from top to bottom, and this is only helped by some of the laws of the game.

If that was a foul by Keane, then why not an indirect free-kick? Why did football do away with the indirect free-kick, especially inside the box? I wonder if it was because all the controversy keeps it in the news, because it sure as hell doesn't help a sport that is already littered by cheating.

I'd happily trade the Carabao Cup for Silva!

Getting turned over by Watford would be short-term pain for long-term gain.

My period of giving Silva the benefit of the doubt has expired. He has to go unfortunately.

I've got no idea why I keep suffering this every weekend; it's what all the males in my family have done – I probably don't want to accuse myself of desertion and be the one who broke away. Not to mention most of my mates are Blues... it's just a cross we have to bear.

I'm finding this season particularly grim. I'm really struggling with just how much has been spent and how devastatingly crap we are.

How can this be?

Using their own figures and logic, they leave themselves with no option but to accept that we haven't gone behind in the other 57% of the games and therefore have zero chance of losing.

Stats, eh?

You obviously need banal, childish overly long diatribes to try to make your overused and many many posts seem logical. If people don't agree with me I have the manners to respond without using personal criticism and the lowest form of humour, namely sarcasm.

Or perhaps I am just one more cantankerous old man (see Mark @308) who has been watching Everton since 1947. You remind me so much of a certain President... You probably consider that as a compliment.

One simple and polite question: Why do you need to often write even more than the usually erudite article that you are responding to? Oh sorry, my apologies — I am resorting to your "sarcasm" strategy.

I think just about every bit of bad luck occurred Saturday to conspire against Marco, but he didn't help himself with his substitutions, despite DCL scoring.

I didn't like Siggy coming on for Bernard. Said so in the Live Forum. Didn't like putting Iwobe wide, he looks much, much better in the middle. Sigurdsson slows us down too much, but he got the nod from Marco. I'd have not put Delph into the game.

Forget about all that. Here in America, often times coaches get fired simply because "it wasn't working out."

After 10 games into this season, we've lost 60% of our games.

FFS Everton, you've dumped millions into this side. Demand results please! Just once raise the bar and demand a return on your investment. I'm sorry if it's a tough decision, but as my recently deceased Father-in-Law used to say, in a quite non-politically-correct fashion to be sure - "If it were easy we'd leave it to the women and children." Now I don't like or agree with the tone and message of that quote, but I use it to illustrate it's time to make an unpleasant, undesired, but necessary decision to move the Club forward. And someone, male, female, adult, child, Martian, needs to step the fuck up and change the direction we're heading in.

Just to hammer it home we've lost 60% of our games this season!

To quote the reason here in America for a change of manager, "this isn't working out."

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Your ref to post 308 is directed at myself. However, I have chosen to rise above it, and will no longer enter into or comment on MG posts.

My pleasure. I am quite sure that you are more than capable of defending yourself. I really enjoy positive banter, particularly concerning Everton. I just don't have much time for the "Bully", whether it be physical or verbal. I was more than capable of defending myself against bullies when I used to watch from the boy's pen back in the day. However at that time I was only nine or ten years old. From what he says he has got to be at least thirteen.

You trip over yourself in trying to mock the stats you so despise with the comments you make.

Yes, in 43% of our games under Silva - 21 of a total of 57 games in which he has managed Everton - when the team concedes the first goal we have lost 18 of those 21 games, 85.71%.

A reasonable person looking at those numbers would accept the statement that Everton has a "NEAR zero chance of winning having conceded the first goal" (you slying missed out the wee adverb NEAR in quoting me). 3 points from three draws from a possible 63 points kinda reinforces that.

But then you use YOUR figures and YOUR logic to make YOUR claim that as we haven't gone behind in the other 57% of the games we "therefore have zero chance of losing."

YOUR claim can only be true and directly compatible with the original and proven example if Everton never lost having scored first. But they did. Three times.

DCL scored first in the 2-6 shaming by Spurs at Goodsion.
We led 2-0 at Newcastle, only to lose 2-3.
We scored first v Milwall in the cup, but lost 2-3.

Semantics, eh?