Everton release first images of new stadium

Without being sceptical, didn't we see fantastic images, pamphlets, the whole works on the Kings Dock stadium plan way back when?

Until there's a definite timescale on the beginning of the building work it's hard to get excited yet.

Here we go, no doubt we will sell Lookman and Gueye tomo and then announce stadium plans. Everton so laughable. It's like let's mask the reality with something we have been talking about for years now. Boring.

Selling Lookman will be smothered by the small news of Evertons new stadium plans eh ?
Honestly are them first 2 posts being ironic or something, if you can't get excited about what will be revealed tomorrow then you definitely follow and support Everton differently than me.
How about you throw caution to wind and allow yourselves to "fantasise" about a new iconic waterfront stadium eh, I know its foolish of me because no bricks have been laid yet and stuff etcetera etc. Then again even when its half built people will say " there could be a monsoon" or footy might become dead unpopular again like the mid 80s.
Surely the miserabilists aren't going to dominate this thread.
I can't wait to see the images, and you know in the event that I don't like the plans or the look of the stadium I will still find the whole project and debate riveting.
I don't think I will be distracted too much by the sale of Lookman.

Billy, I am excited, been excited since we announced we are looking into it. But Everton treat us fans like idiots. You only have to look at Derby defeats and the expose the ‘new stadium' gets a day later, it's to simply drown out the stuff going on that they don't want us to talk about.

But then again, people have heard it with Kings Dock and with Kirkby, maybes people optimism has faded.

Am I hearing this right

Some think the planned unveiling of the new stadium and commencement of phase 2 of the consultation has been carefully coordinated to gloss over the sale of players?

Anthony, I think you can safely say that not even Blue Bill came up with this fiendish plan. Now, I was pissed off, mightily pissed off at the lamentable apparent fees for Gana and Lookman. But, this stadium news is not like Gaviscon on my ulcer. It is, just what it is.

Didnt we get £8m for Gravesen Andy? Its always where's the Arteta money. People have short memories

Three months ago, even more we were informed of the second phase, we were even told when they were going to be held and that in July after the first stage of feedback, we would get to see designs of the ground.

This has nothing to do with two players leaving, it is about our new chapter in the history of Everton Football Club.

If you cannot get optimistic about that and worry more about two players who do not want to be at Everton then I really feel for you.

And next week they will name those additional fans who will make up the 52,000.

We got £2m for him David, he only had 6 months left on his contract. We had 12 players whose contracts ran out at the same time in 2005 you might recall.

I'm with Billy on the positivity front, although if it's ‘only 52000' we will regret it next time England holds a World Cup as Anfield will get the nod.

Can't wait, just like Christmas this. Been near on 30years since Johnson first mooted a new stadium and this is the furthest we have got on any of the schemes so far. Just pray we have managed to get the finance together

Well said Billy.

I think i'm more intrigued than excited at this point. Once we get the planning permission and we have the funding in place then that's when the excitement will really kick in

What time is the big reveal?

Yes! I hope it's not a stick man drawing.

I'm with Billy Roberts on this. Why can't fans be positive and dare to dream of an iconic stadium. Let's stop moaning guys and, if the Blues cause you so much frustration, take up another sport or at least another club.

I'm an Evertonian and a stadium enthusiast too, so I'm doubly excited about what today might bring. However, I can understand some people's slight scepticism due to 20+ yrs of stadium-proposal fatigue. We are all conditioned by our experiences, and the words "Everton's new stadium" generally evoke feelings of disappointment, doubt or some cases even anger.

This scepticism has not been helped by the relatively convoluted and stalled process to date, which we are told is about satisfying all the demands of a particularly stringent planning process, due to sensitive heritage issues. For me though, today is about finally being able to put some more flesh on the bones of those initial concepts, so that we can better judge precisely what all the fuss has been about, and what we are actually getting ourselves into.

I hope that Evertonians are excited by what we are shown, and that some light is shed on all the important supporting issues concerning accessibility, transport, potential for future expansion, affordability and costs etc. After all, if today is truly part of a "consultation process", it should be about far more than glossy CGI images.

I'm like Anthony A, and although I've been looking forward to this for ages now, I'd say that I'm more intrigued than excited, especially after seeing Dan Meirs tweeted the same fella twice in four minutes the other day, when it looked obvious that this fan had got under his skin.

Tony, what was the Tweeting business you mention? I haven't seen anything about it.

Are you going to the presentation today?

Can only be good news - very excited to finally see the proposal.

Karl on post 11. Despite the wave of positivity around the club at the moment - Everton still haven't sold out its home opener against Watford. I know it's early days but Tottenham's tickets for their 60,000-seater don't even go on general sale such is the demand. A bigger capacity than 52,000 would have left us with 2023's answer to Sunderland's Stadium of Light.

Anyhow - Klopp has said on the BBC that he is going to "take the RS to a new level" - so it's confirmed - he is taking them down.
Personally, I can't wait!

Greg, Watford have just returned much of their allocation which is going on general sale.

Really looking forward to this.

Not looking forward to the doom & gloom merchants feeling underwhelmed over & over again.

Dan Meis will be on MS Paint right this moment.

No new signings... but hey, we get to see Dan Meis's doodles on his Mac pro tomorrow.

Exciting times ahead!

There are some real conspiracy theorists on here!

That's right, Kenwright planned months ago to sell Gueye and Lookman this very week and to distract us all with plans for the new stadium.

I can see Kenwright now, stood by the fireplace in his gold-plated mansion with a glass of cognac in his hand, cackling at the success of his dastardly plan to hoodwink us Evertonians...

Alan J. Thompson (9), the day after Celtic name who makes up their 60,000 capacity after having average gates of 18,000 at the old Parkhead.
And many other examples.

Sorry Ray, I've only just read your post, and I'm not going today unfortunately, but can't wait for the news though mate.

When Meis tweeted a picture of a blue wave, someone told him that he wouldn't be doing anything original if he's copying Dortmund.

Meis tweeted back that you could hammer a kipper into your face if you wanted to be original, and then four minutes later said he's going for the best and most intimidating stadium with-in the budget, but I just got the feeling he'd been thrown off-guard, when he read that dead-pan reply to his first tweet.

I don't care if it's been done before, because we've already owned the first purpose built football stadium that was ever built, but judging by the architects replies, I'm very intrigued to see what “our new ground” is eventually going to look like!

Good on you Billy. I am really looking forward to this. It's going to be great!

I don't envy Dan Meis. Unless what he produces is as good as Spurs' then people will feel underwhelmed, especially with the current size restriction. It's interesting that Meis' quote which Tony alludes to above uses the phrase "within budget".

I really hope the designs are something we can all get behind and be proud of. I see this as our only opportunity to bridge the gap to the current top 6 clubs.

Tony@28

Nobody is stood next to their fireplace in this weather. FAKE NEWS.

Tony, #30,

I don't do twitter so can't respond, but to say "within the budget" is a bit intriguing. The club have said it's costing £600m. I expect quite a lot ar that cost for that capacity.

I've been sent images of the new stadium, and have to say they look really impressive. It seems we will have a "Blue wall" similar to Dortmund and Spurs. I'm going to the presentation tonight, so will soon find out if these images are the real McCoy. However, I trust the person who sent them to me, so I do believe they are genuine.

Share em Rob ffs.

Nah don't share em. I like having something to look forward to!

Jesus how long have we all been loooking forward to this?

Don't do it Rob!!

Tony@30

Sorry you won't be there tonight Tony, the bit in your post that intrigues me is "most intimidating stadium". In my minds eye I picture a largely brick stadium with the fans close to the action. I hope I'm right.
Oh, and the away fans stuck up in a corner like the Barcodes do to every other set of fans.

We've waited a long time for this and it has to be said EFC have done their best to build up suspense, it's took forever to get to this stage.

That discrace of a second kit has reminded me how badly EFC can get it wrong, but I've decided to be optimistic!

Will I still be a happy camper tomorrow after seeing our new home?

Sorry Brian # 36. I don't know how too, so you'll just have to wait until tomorrow. 😁😁😁

Is it 7pm tonight that images are going to be released to the public?

Rob. It's alright I've just seen what are probably the same pics and it DOES look amazing. People coming into Liverpool via the river can't fail to see "us."

As for the "it's got to be as good as Spurs" earlier in the thread. It's ridiculous to expect it to be as good as Spurs. Spurs cost close to a billion pound I heard so anyone expecting our new ground to be as "good" as Spurs is living in cloud cuckoo land.
What I will say though is that comparing our prospective new ground to Spurs is like comparing an Audemars Piguet watch to a Tag. The AP could set you back about 㿅k whereas you could pick up a lovely Tag Carrera for about ٣k.
Do they compare in the grand scheme of things? No they don't but I know of people who are more than happy with their٣k Tag Carrera and the watch does a fantastic job and looks great too.

Just £5k on a watch Brian. I would hope it looks good and does a fantastic job for that money :-)

It was me who raised the Spurs remark. I'm not expecting it to be of that standard but expectations are high and I hope it delivers. Early indications are positive. There is a feeling of being unambitious with the capacity on TW. If it's a world class stadium on the banks of the Mersey with a capacity of around 55,000 and improves our matchday revenues then that'll do me for starters.

Me too Craig! With regard to the £5k watch. I meant your work one of course, not your going out one! :-)))

Why do we keep revealing plans anyway ??

Since we got the go-ahead for the stadium, Spurs have built one and even played in it! 🙈

We have to get a move on as we look a bit of a laughing stock, up to now we have put a cone in the docks.

All this drip feed of info why don't EFC have an actual stadium website set up for news of the stadium development interviews, pictures, updates, progress etc

EFC always bang on about EFC in the community but ultimately when its comes to the stadium its a massive sham. Its hard not to get pessimistic about it all after Kingsdock and Destination Kirby. Has any other group of fans been messed about more than Evertonians when it comes to relocation?

Why are only a select few tonight seeing the pictures? Why the secrecy?

I thought the big reveal was tonight around 7ish? I've seen plenty of images floating around online, and I like them it may be that I've already seen it as well.

Blue wave & all that.

If the link below is genuine the stadium will have four uniform sides and the away end will look much like the home end?

I was hoping for four distinctive side.

https://talksport.com/football/495640/everton-new-stadium-update-leaked-picture-bramley-moore-dock-safe-standing-section/

Rob. They're from way back mate. You'll have to wait to have a moan at the real ones. ;-)))

Paul Burns(#29); Do those clubs know the names of those fans as Everton say they do. They say it's called the Season Ticket Waiting List.

Daniel @ 47.

"All this drip feed of info why don't EFC have an actual stadium website set up for news of the stadium development interviews, pictures, updates, progress etc. Why the secrecy?"

They do, Daniel. No secrecy at all. It's linked from the official club site, but it's a standalone site. Here's the link:

Link

Quite frankly, I'm amazed you're not aware of its existence.

Jay @ 52

I'll quite happily stand corrected on that one then, but no I didn't know about it at all.

Much reading to be had tonight then, Cheers.

Brian #50

Hello mate,

I hoping I won't have to do any moaning, I'm tired of being pessemistic.

To be fair the link I posted, it wasn't that bad and there's worse looking places, but just slightly a nudge towards a bowl shape too much.

Daniel #47 "Why are only a select few tonight seeing the pictures? Why the secrecy?"

Maybe they're trying to keep out the naysayers. After all, for those who say it ain't going to happen, why would they want to attend a non-event?

Why are people getting hung up about Lookman, the ducking toe rag wanted away so good riddance. It could have been Ronaldinho; he wanted away, the lazy twat. Oh, by the way, he still took our money.

Rob#54.
Not long to wait mate, not long now!

Greg @22 because some people can't be arsed sitting behind a post, I'd rather go to away games until a new stadium is built

Rob #35..are they the same images that have been posted on GOT & the Peoples Forum?

Bobby #56

I agree completely.

The lad has clearly never wanted to be here. We're good enough for Gomes but must cower in the wake of the mighty RB Leipzig where Lookman is concerned.

Stephen, 59. Yep they are the same images I've received today.

Daniel @47, the venue only holds a limited number but invites have been sent to everyone who attended the Dan Meis presentations at St Luke's last year. I think there were 3 sessions there possibly of 3/400 people each time.

So far as I know, the only criteria for going to St Luke's was that you had a customer number. So its quite democratic really.

FFS, it's a bowl. Look how far the back seats are from the pitch. Goodison stand are virtually above each other, which creates the 12th man.

Disappointed season ticket holder.

Interesting. If that is not the stadium then you would have to applaud the guy who went to that effort. Happy the sides are steep and consistent all the way around.

Our new Stadium Architect Dan Meis, must have upset Tom (of Tom and Jerry fame) a while back, because I distinctly remember him saying "I hate Meises to pieces" — not sure what initiated over that outburst. :-)

Why post leaked images, lads? Poor taste. Let the club do the reveal.

Forgive my impatience, but if that is the real design, I'm disappointed. Sure the exterior and facilities will be much better. But the stadium just looks generic. 4 consistent even sides with no unique characteristics or anything that might identity the stadium as ours. Aside from the blue seats of course. I'd have preferred a larger main stand as a nod to GP.

Yeah I've seen that video too, I'm fairly sure it's genuine. I'm slightly underwhelmed - as you say Phil, it looks pretty generic - but it's early days in the design I suppose. Main thing is there are no fucking obstructed views and hopefully you won't be ankle deep in piss and bad lager.

One more thing, I'm not a fan of the glass goldfish bowl players tunnel for the prawn sandwich brigade to watch the team enter the pitch.

Yep Michael the facilities will be much better. But is that worth £500M? I expected the stadium to have looked more like a traditional football stadium. Something that looks like the Lucas Oil (inside) would've been the dream ticket.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the moaning begins *LOL*

Bit disappointed to be honest, from the official video (which is that one above). Seems to be heavy emphasis on a boat theme looking at the external shape of the stadium. Not too sure about the intermittent brickwork if thats what it is meant to be. And the Blue Wave does not look as impressive as I was hoping :( Some parts look good though.

To my eyes it has the look of Juventus new ground which is a very noisy and intimidating place to visit and has a capacity of 41k.
For a reported 600 mil when I see the actual images want my eyes to pop out like a cartoon wolf eyeing up Bugs Bunny -this does not do that.

@Brian Williams, sorry I love it. It's so Everton. It's going to be more atmospheric than GP. It's everything I ever dreamt a modern football stadium should be. That OK?

As someone said before, they viewed it as a bowl. I don't see it as a bowl just a square with the corners filled in.

First impressions, it looks absolutely stunning, nothing even remotely like it elsewhere in the U.K.

I'm disappointed, lacking in character, doesn't fit in with surroundings and to be honest the roof is just ugly. Very poor looking externally, just like any other stadium internally. I thought with all the waiting it was going to be something beautiful but I was wrong.

I think the four photos that have since been released look better than the video

I've had a look at the images on EvertonFC.com and I think it looks absolutely stunning. Sort of looks like Albert Dock or Stanley Dock with the bow of a huge Everton ship rising above.

It's a little plain inside but definitely more of a rounded rectangle than a bowl. The seat pitch angle is (I believe) in line with modern H&S requirements. We probably couldn't build it much steeper.

So, three years ago we were skint with no real plan for a new stadium. Now we have a billionaire owner who has pushed through a project to build us a stadium not far from Goodison, on the Waterfront of what is (currently) a UNESCO World Heritage site. That's pretty incredible. Could the design be better? Sure; but it could *always* be better.

Think it looks absolutely great, can't wait to get it built and hear the roar of the crowd intimidating the rest of the top 6.

Excellent job imho

Whatever the stadium ends up looking like remember it only cost as much as 5 Zaha's or a couple of Neymars. Ridiculous when you think about it.

I love it, stunning football ground, it's unique... it's ours...

I love it.

Love the brick, glass and steel design. Love the way the steel overhangs the brick. The view of the stadium from the river looks amazing. Looks like the roof overhangs the stands quite considerably which should help to give shelter from those winds up the Mersey. Love the steep sides which will create a great atmosphere.

I wanted something different from the usual modern stadiums that all look the same - this delivers it.

The images on the official club site look very good.

Link

I don't understand how anyone can have anything negative to say about those images. It fits perfectly, with a mix of textures fitting in with the surroundings. Great job.

However because l'm on ToffeeWeb! It looks a bit hot with all those windows, and of course a few people will drown each season. Hopefully it doesn't get shut down off the Elf and Safety.

More I see it the more I like it. Love that daytime pic from far away of the stadium.

It's good but not much different than I expected!

I would have liked to have seen a steeper home end that went beyond the other three sides, maybe closer to the pitch.

As I say, it's decent but just the same as most new British stadiums now.

An article now on the BBC with some additional pics / renderings https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49109807

Absolutely love it!

The home end is as steep as safety rules allow, I believe.

Even more and better images to view on the People's Project site, plus a much slicker video.

Link

I'm sure that's Niasse, number 9 in the video.

Joe #80: Agree with you on all points there.

Just watched the official video on the website and it looks amazing.

Impossible to please everyone.

I'm a bit underwhelmed tbh. Nice slick video but generally just average

It's a stunner. Love it.

Having seen the full video now, it's actually okay. I mean, I can't see how anyone can get massively excited about it - apart from the fact that it's a new stadium and it's on the docks - because it is a touch generic, certainly not ground-breaking (see what I did there?). The most interesting aspect for me is that it's almost like a glass bowl plonked on top of a rectangular brick building and I think that might look better in real life, in situ, than it does on a CGI video. I like the industrial touches giving a nod to its heritage and I like the fact that there appears to be no away fans whatsoever in the ground.

Anyway, it'll do me, let's get it built and can I have row D on the centre line in the upper part of the stand opposite the corporate boxes please?

One other thing, it's quite enclosed - the roof overhang is pretty big - which is a good idea bearing in mind the setting on the river. Might help counter those icy blasts from Siberia.

When Z-Cars starts to play as the players walk onto the pitch it brings a tear to my eye. It really does. Finally we're moving into the 21st century. I just hope the club can do it. We've waited for what seems like forever for this so lets get it done. just wish my dad was still around to see it.

It's a bit early for too much anticipation anyway isn't it?

The hardest part now is actually getting it built, which still feels like quite some way off really!

What I would like to know is:
When the ball gets kicked out of the stadium and into the dock, who will fish it out ?
Will the ferries call there on match days ?

Barry - I understand Speedo Mick will be on hand to dive into the water to get any stray balls.

Love it. Looks good. Get it built. Final capacity anyone heard for sure? Hope it's future proofed. 55k could seem small in 50 years. Hopefully the two long sides can be easily increased to expand if the need ever arises. Onwards and upwards

And not an obstructed view in sight!!

Love it! Get it approved and built!

Great reply Michael@102 love it.

Sorry people but this looks excellent. People who think it looks like any other stadium need to take a few more looks at it. It is clear Meis has listened to what people want (no obstructed views, fear factor yet intimacy, better corporate facilities) and more than delivered

Can't understand the negative comments on this. Looks amazing in my opinion and I'll be having a ticket in that tunnel side lounge when it opens.

brilliant and I love the way the brickwork sits with the other docks. with all due respect to the naysayers apart from spurs show me another stadium in such an iconic setting.

Apart from the stadium itself, this is uplifting for the club as a whole. I have been a long-term sceptic about the funding for the project but I just feel that things are coming together for us.

Imagine night games here.

Frank @99 Z Cars and 21st Century don't match. Even Burnley walk out to Foo Fighters followed by Arcade Fire. This is what I want, some Noise, get's the heart thumping, certainly better than some 60's black and white TV nostalgia. My tin hat is on.

Everton have no connection to the docks other than this stadium so what has heritage got to do with anything?
Sounds like an excuse to build the thing out of cheap arse red bricks, just like the crumbling remnants of old Goodison.
Its a lot of money for a sideways step and, as usual, we've been lied to over capacity and appearance and no, i'm not excited over no obstructed views, this should be accepted as the norm in 2019, the Romans had it 2000 years ago for fcks sake.

Talking of Spurs fans they seem to love it judging by their comments, I know I do.
Perhaps some disappointments are down to unreal expectations.
One more thing I liked was mention of a 14k fan something or other that could also be used for concerts etc.

To be honest, there are very few negative comments. Think consensus on TW is positive. Maybe a few are just waiting before they come back with their considered misery but that can become habit.

To me this seems a huge step for our great club.

The tightness inside, location and roof will make for a great atmosphere for us mainly old buggers and certainly draw more fans as we again have best stadium in the city.

Liverpool increasing capacity in a stand.

Ha!

I must say I love it, Just what I was hoping for.

Paul. heritage of the city mate..

Bet you £10 you will love it.

Mr Jinks the cat said I hate mieces to pieces about Pixie and Dixie the mice.

I didn't waste my childhood watching Andy Pandy and Muffin the Mule.

I cannot stress how natural it looks. It deffo feels and seems to be a dock building at the right level then, something modern and glass which reflective as a mirror to blend into the surrounding architecture. Boss. 👍🏻

I'd love to know what some people expected?
It's all about opinions but for me this is absolutely stunning and the RS will be jealous as hell.
Can't wait for this to happen- has capacity been mentioned?

Paul Burns @ 112.

"Everton have no connection to the docks other than this stadium so what has heritage got to do with anything?"

You really haven't thought that one through, have you Paul?

I'm enjoying reading about the plans on the Peoples Project website. Starting to seem a bit real. I'm still not particularly moved by the design, but it looks good enough. I like the use of plenty of brick so it sits well in the docks, and there's very little about it I actively dislike (apart from the glass tunnel). We sometimes drive to the match and, although the club are clearly going to discourage that, I would imagine there'll be shitloads of scallywags offering to mind your car for a fiver in some of the deserted streets and housing estates in the vicinity, much like there is at Goodison.

So long as they've reserved a nice big parking space for my 200ft yacht on match days I'll be happy

Paul@112. "what did the Romans ever do for us?" . well they didn't have obstructed views.

You make a very good point though.

“A sideways step”😂 Hilarious Paul!

It certainly looks a Monster of a Stadium, at night would be amazing. I just wish we could squeeze another 3000 seats in, to take to 55,000. I really do think we would easily sell out 52K.

On another thread it might have been funny Nick, but I suppose it depends on the way you feel at the time mate!

It looks very good to me and wait ‘til we all get inside, fifty odd thousand on a floodlit night game, it will be well worth waiting for. When can you book for the first game?

From the dodgy link I got( my picture keeps freezing maddeningly )this stadium looks fantastic, there is so many levels to this design it is hard to take it all in.
How anyone can say this is a generic stadium is beyond me I have never seen a stadium like this and if this comes to fruition the scale and impact will only then be appreciated, as for " crappy cheap red brick "
It couldn't be less crappy or cheap mate, I would like to see a slower video to be honest so I can appreciate the views from the river and dock rd sides. The only thing I think that jars is the Everton writing, it seems to cheapen what to me is anotherwise impressive, modern striking looking structure, one that I would be proud to call home.

Well I'm impressed! Looking forward to it!

Looks great to me. The view from the river will be stunning, I bet the Mersey ferries will be sold out every match day. Got to be good for the city in general, interest will be huge.

Already much further in than I remember for Kings Dock and will be worth the wait.

The work to be done on the Goodison Park site also looks very good.

I have no complaints with the projected images, and think it looks both unique and impressive. Let's hope there's not too much Red Tape to go through and work can begin as soon as is possible.

As a first draft it's good but as with most things Everton I expect excellence and have to accept good. It should be comfortably top 10 but not challenging the top stadiums. Its a C + from me.

Plus points.
The best part is that it's not embarrassing or cheap looking.
Love the use of brick, metal and glass. They have combined them well.
General design features, colours, shape and close proximity to the pitch are what make it.
Plenty of space outside the stadium to be able to do a lap.

Disapointed with the size of it. It's not tall or grand enough. Wheres the tower, the crows nest, the stand out design feature that you can see for miles away.
It looks big against the water but as soon as a few hotels and offices are built nearby it will dissappear from view coming from the city centre.
And on that point why isn't there a grand Hotel attached?
Where's the vision to incorporate a water view restaurant, bar, club shop, a European style square to gather and socialise looking over the Mersey.
I expected the stadium / pitch to be rotated 90 degrees to maximise space.
The space underneath the arched over hang could be used as a meeting area, shaded from the sun/rain if it was larger.
I don't like the roof being on sticks. It's a noise nuisance which on windy days will drown out the crowd and annoy everyone for miles.

Fair enough Tony. I'm just not sure how this could possibly be described as a sideway step as it looks anything but.

I really like it. Loved the cheesy video too. It looks great. A stadium to be proud of on the banks of the royal blue Mersey.

Nick #133, agreed

Duncan @ 122, I can just imagine Match Days, the kids saying can I mind yer yacht mister? :-)

Amazing stuff!! I really love it! Traditional and modern at the same time. Good work.

My biggest concern is that in the flyby video when the players are in the glass walled tunnel our new #9 looks like he's only 5'2".

Jamie @ 138, he's a master of disguise, when he get's in the open air, he grows another foot taller, by the way, who is he? :-)

Fantastic

It's my 60th birthday today. And if this is how this is going to be, I couldn't have wished for a better present. Better not let the enemy read this, though – she will be fuming after all she's done…

No but seriously it looks amazing. I'm on holiday in the Canary Isles and already had a few snide comments off you know who… Oh lads aren't you so jealous Haven't had the deceny to reply to them, I'm too busy enjoying myself. Ah well lads you're council house extension will still suffice. Now fuck off and let us bask in the glow of them beautiful images. Goodnight, boys and girls!

I love the stadium, but we can't play with three number 9s and two number 5s... that's bloody ridiculous! Silva out!

Joe@111
Well bugger off to Burnley then and listen to yer Foo Fighters

Sorry Nick, it wasn't aimed at you for finding it hilarious mate!

It's OK I guess but personally.

I'd have had it holdings 90,000, levitating 40 foot it the air with invisible escalators to take us to cushion covered vibrating heated seats, where a pint I pops up out the arm rest as soon as you've finished the last one. That brilliantly lit it could be seen from fucking Pluto, constantly playing the “Johnny Todd” that loud people in Beijing would have to shut their windows to watch the telly. A massive sequence of strategically placed mirrors so they could all see from Mordor. And as for naming rights let's get a collection going so we can name it “The Fuck You Stadium”. Come on, Dan, not much to ask for!!!

By the way, I don't like it — I absolutely LOVE it.

Moise Keane, Derek?

I am a Scouser. Live on Merseyside. Always used to come on here. I realise this is a forum for blues everywhere. Especially North America. But I'm losing faith in you all. So much pessimism. This is awesome maybe not a North American stadium but this is Everton. It is a perfect fit. A North American architect ‘got it'.

I attended the presentation this evening, I would guess there were around 1,000 attendees.

The evening was in danger of starting badly, as a long queue had formed outside the Titanic Hotel prior to the doors opening at 5.30. Had the monsoon that hit at 4.00pm arrived a bit later, spirits would have been seriously dampened. As it was, they were lifted by a complimentary beer or wine as we entered the function room.

The proceedings were very slick and professional. Darren Griffiths was an excellent MC.

Denise Barret-Baxendale spoke very passionately and eloquently, mainly about the Goodison legacy. That may not be as interesting to some as the new stadium, but the proposals are excellent, they could revitalise the L4 area.

Colin Chong spoke about timescales, with a planning application to be submitted later this year and building to start early 2020. I have to say that second bit sounds optimistic.

Bill Kenwright did his Bill thing. If you don't like him you wouldn't have liked it, but he was listened to respectfully.

Dan Meis then presented his proposals. I can only speak for myself, I think they are stunning. His concept is to use brickwork to form a solid-looking base, with a “floating” roof. The site is tight, consideration was given to orienting the stadium east/west, but they had decided on north/south to mirror Goodison, and to help prevent sunlight problems. I'm not quite sure how that marries up with a large degree of glass at the south end of the stadium.

There was an audible gasp of appreciation, and a round of applause, when the western elevation (the riverside) was revealed. The presentation was received by a standing ovation for Dan. (I bumped into him on the way out, had a few words, he came across as a very enthusiastic guy).

Seamus, Tom Davies and Tony Bellew said a few words. Tony may come out of retirement as he would like to knock out someone there.

Then upstairs to see more of the consultation process, and a superb 3D fly around the new stadium.

I managed to speak with one of the transport planning consultants. The plan to ease access to the site is to knock 3 new entrances in the dock wall (yes, they know it's listed). They are actually more concerned about pedestrian congestion on Regent Road than within the stadium site, that will require flow-management. Regent Road will be closed to traffic during matches.

That's a very quick run down. As I said to Mr Meis, we just need to pay for it now. He laughed and said that is being taken care of.

Went to presentation. Blown away by the images of the new stadium. Almost emotional. Well, I was emotional.

And the plans for Goodison. Absolutely superb. Now that really is Everton in the Community. Arguably better than the high I got on the stadium.

In my view its striking and if it lights up Blue at night and Liver Building is lit that will be som spectacle and should be great for the clubs naming rights and advertising. Compact and tight should be a cauldron. If the rail seating is allowed then we will have circa 60k capacity.

I'm as curious to see the plans for the surrounding 3-4 miles in terms of transport and the regeneration of the north docks.

Interesting to see if this plan gets passed but it would suggest that the finance plan is in place, but this is EFC.

Let's hope this plan is approved.

Thanks Peter, for the report on the presentation, hope to see you in the Excelsior after the Watford game.

Shouldn't the biggest stand be on the side instead of the end so fans can enjoy 90 minutes of sideways passing?

Given the budget and site complexities, I think it's great. I would love to see 62k inside there one day, but more important is that we compete on the pitch and put a trophy in the cabinet early doors.

I always though the capacity was way too low. I think, however, it looks magnificent.

https://youtu.be/Kuj_DBse0L4

Had a quick scan over the comments but didn't spot this link to the video. Apologies if it's already been posted.

Thanks for that Peter, and Brent, it sounds as if you have both been very impressed, and if nearly one thousand toffees have given the architect a standing ovation, then that seems even more impressive to me.

I think it looks magnificent. If Moshi and co can pull this up I'll be fucking made up. If they want a nod to the city and the docks history they should rebuild the Dockers umberella again, what a way to get the game. Is the Bramley Moore pub still open?

This looks absolutely quality...I love it!

I'm going to quit my life and start building it next week.

Peter @ 148 and Brent @ 149. Appreciated.

Nice to hear two balanced posters who attended the presentation speak so enthusiastically about what they saw.

Peter's snippets from Meis himself on funding and his chat with the transport guy also encouraging.

Si #46

I believe the Spurs stadium took around 12 years from the original concept to the opening. It certainly wasn't built in less than three years, as you suggest.

Sat next to Peter at the presentation. How he remembers a lot of what was said I don't know. Had to wait about 40 minutes after the presentation for the missus to pick me up, so had a couple of pints in the Titanic bar. First time I've ever been in the Titanic hotel and was really impressed with it. As it's literally only a stones throw from BMD, I can imagine many blues filling the bars and rooms in the hotel on a home match weekend.

Overall a well presented event, and for me, the stadium images look amazing.

Bill 160# correct - at least. I was involved in what's called a s106 agreement - a planning agreement in layman terms - and that must have been 2007/2008/2009 at latest.

Si #46, a really ignorant comment.

Spurs first announced plans for their stadium, and redevelopment of the area, in 2008. They first submitted a planning application in 2009. It took 10 more years to get it built!

We are looking to submit a planning application this year and have it completed by 2023. So not too shabby in comparison.

The images look spectacular. This is really going to happen, and it's going to be incredible.

It was an excellent presentation with an impressive level of detail in terms of the stadium and the Goodison legacy proposals. The standing ovation for Dan Meis was well deserved. The words used by others to describe the proposals as ‘magnificent' and ‘stunning' fully reflect the impact on the audience tonight. If our club can deliver this project it will stand us in good stead for decades to come and be hugely beneficial to the city.

For those who were at the presentation, did they mention any plans to build apartments or a hotel? Any other leisure facilities - health club, "name" restaurant etc - mentioned?

Well done Dan Meis - I think he has done us proud. Some great posts on here tonight especially by fans who attended the presentation.

The one that caught my eye was Frank's @99. “I just hope the club can do it.“.

The can and will Frank especially when we get behind them. They really want us to.

Up the Blues!!!

Incredible. It's fucking unbelievable. It's us at the docks on the river a mile from the city centre. Everything I could've wished for but couldn't have quite imagined. It's original — it's fucking supernatural!!! Get it built on time and on spec please. I love it!

The stadium looks stunning and I'm over the moon. Yes I would have like all four corners to have a tower, something like the San Siro. But its just spectacular and I just hope they get it built on time.

Also it looks nothing like a bowl to me, but that's just my opinion.
COYB

Looks like the bloody Reebok with some fancy wrapping on the outside.

It's even got balconies overlooking the Royal Blue Mersey where we can hang the kopites one by one.

Now that is planning for you.

I'm underwhelmed. We're Everton. It should be bigger than 52k and better than that design which lacks any unique qualities other than being by the river.

If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium, I'd expect it to look like this.

I like it. Of course it has some aspects of a bowl, all football stadia will to some extent. They have to satisfy safety rules and take prevailing weather into account. Why go to ridiculous lengths to disguise that?
Keeping it simply modern and distinctive at the same time suits me. The location takes care of a lot of what will make it iconic anyway.

I think it looks fab. Amazed to hear complaints but then this is ToffeeWeb. Can't wait to see it in real life.

Well, I think the stadium looks great (and approve of the plans for L4 too). And I've just responded to the survey to say so. However I did unload both barrels about the inadequacy of the transport plan - as has been discussed at length on TW - let's hope that someone is listening.

The more I look at it, the more I like it. The stands look dead tight to the pitch which should create a great atmosphere, which is really the most important thing when you go to a game isn't it?

Once you're sat in your seat, you don't spend 90 minutes looking at the stadium, you watch the game, shout your head off and go nuts when we score goals and win.

Goodison is (or used to be) the best stadium for atmosphere, especially at night games, and us Evertonians live for that aspect at the Old Lady - this new ground delivers that. As Dan Meis has said, it's about the experience as much as anything else, and from what we've seen tonight this looks as though it'll deliver that.

Some of the views of the ground look unlike any other stadium I can think of in this country, and it has a nice blend of traditional & modern. We're a traditional bunch at heart, but we need to look forward, not back. This stadium appears to offer that in spades.

Good on them for at last looking to have sorted out what most of us hoped for. Yeah we want bigger and better than everyone else, but bigger isn't always better. It's worth remembering that.

@Andy 171
"If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium I'd expect it to look like this."

Have you been living on the moon for the last 30 years? We've hardly dominated English football. I would remind you that Leicester City recently won the Premier League and Wolves finished above us last season. So I would not be looking down my nose at them if I were you. If it wasn't for Moshiri we would still be skint and looking forward to another 100 years at Goodison.

I think if the built it out of solid gold and a 100,000 capacity, there would still be those who would find something to complain about.

Relieved, very happy, really like it, get it built!

Frank, that is a good post.

Frank & Andy - dear me. Anything that was ever worth a bean was built on ambition and you guys tell me about a one off Leicester title win & Wolves finishing 7th.

You two are exhibit A as to why we're mediocre. Have you lost the will to be the best?

I take it back it looks like a new Birmingham stadium!

People are allowed to dislike it. Andrew@180 appears to be in the minority based on comments here, YouTube and Twitter. I've had a bit of a trawl through all 3 and the vast majority of people love it. Even non Evertonians, and even the odd Kopite.

You can't please all the people all of the time, and that's OK so there's no reason to get arsey with each other. Everyone has an opinion, you aren't likely to ever change it by arguing on the Internet. I've never seen anyone back down and neither have you.

So what if Andrew doesn't like it? He's perfectly within his rights to hate it if he wants to, the rest of us (mostly) seem to be very enthusiastic about it for many reasons.

Cheer up, gents, this is meant to be good news for a change. :-)

Well said James & any ToffeeWebber is a friend of mine but we have to aim higher or we're seriously making up the numbers. Opportunity knocks once in a while.

As I said further up, size isn't everything. Juventus new ground holds 42,000, the new Roma one 52,000. Bigger doesn't have to be the defining factor in building a good ground.

That Juve ground has some atmosphere from the games I've seen so the capacity doesn't really matter in my view. It's the people inside it who make the place.

Asked my sons in their twenties and teens what they thought about it - beautiful and amazing were their words.There might be a bit of a gap in how we all react it to it, but I absolutely love it and it will be instrumental in making us a great club again and attracting the next generation of supporters. To see it on the banks of the Mersey and helping to kick start regeneration of the North Docks is enough to bring a tear to the eye.

People can dislike it of course, but stop taking digs at people who do like it or vice verse.

Let's face it – it's never going to be Kings Dock.

Personally, I think Dan Meis has knocked this one off the park. And the more I read about it and hear details of the presentation, the more I think not only has he ticked all the boxes, but he's also ticked some boxes that I didn't realise we wanted ticking until he ticked them!

If it looks stunning in computer images, then the real thing will be jaw dropping.

Of course, I won't truly believe it's actually happening until the first ball is kicked in there!

Andrew, what are you railing against? The design, the capacity, or both?

I think most people are giving their opinion on the design which is purely a matter of taste.

The capacity - well most of us realise we have zero influence there. What are we going to do to show we'd rather Everton were winning everything in sight and filling a 100,000 stadium every match? Have a banner waving march? Plenty of us will just be grateful to get a new stadium. These things aren't guaranteed.

I've woke up early this morning feeling very emotional, and after skirting through this thread again, I have to say that although I've never really been one for getting excited, I have to agree with Mike @147, when he says a North American architect “GOT IT”!

Back to the football, and hopefully this feel-good factor that most of us have will only be enhanced during the next couple of weeks, with good signings befitting of “the motto” that has been lost for way too long...

And finally my thoughts go now to Goodison Park, and this is why I feel emotional, because it's a place I love, it's a place that's full of so many memories, and it's a ground that definitely needs to go out with a bang!

I dread the night before the first match at "the new old lady" – it will be like a kid unable to get to sleep Xmas Eve.

If this is all a sham, fake news, "never going to happen", etc, then it's a really expensive exercise to con us all. I don't think guys like Dan Meis come cheap. An inspiring presentation from him.

I feel sorry for the "GP remoaners". Sorry, a cheap hit, but I really do feel for them that they can't get excited by this. I wish I could convey the sheer level of enthusiasm those present last night expressed at the end of Meis's presentation. Electric.

Got to be honest I'm really impressed.

I don't think there's a stadium like it in the country. Unique design in a great location.

I do get the impression reading back that there are some people desperate to dislike it and nothing would have suited them. That's up to them of course.

Can't wait for it to be our new home.

Any news on a stadium name? It's probably going to be some corporate effort but I'd like to go with St Domingo's or some other name that reflects our history.

Tony, it's okay to be emotional. I think there were more than one or two tears surreptitiously wiped away last night at the thought of the end of Goodison. But the legacy plans are very good.

And on the upside, Bramley-Moore Dock will be great for the taxi drivers of this world!

Brent, good post mate and a very good point you make regarding the naysayers, it is on every sports website, so they can't, wouldn't, shouldn't be peddling this as a PR exercise.

Like you say the costs to date must be immense already, and they haven't laid a brick, what would be the point of such a sham/con/whatever you would call it?

The only thing I can see that would impede progress is the usual Red Tape that goes along with all these things, plus I can't see them using Mickey Mouse Construction Firms either that go bust half-way through or suddenly decide material costs have gone through the roof.

Goodison, has many memories for all of us, not all good unfortunately, but nevertheless the atmosphere in the good times tended to supersede the not so good. I went to the U-21 games recently, Title and Cup and being less busy than normal matchdays, I had a bit of a closer look at the structure (Bullens Road especially) and it has had it's day and signs of age/fatigue are definitely showing.

Football like all other sports has changed dramatically in my lifetime alone, and the old Victorian style Football Grounds are all gradually giving way to State of the Art Modern Amphitheaters.

I think 'ours' when built, will be a statement not only to the Football World, but Sport in General, and be the envy of most.

Looks fantastic to me. Quite a lot of moaning on TW as usual, I think if we won the PL the would be loads of moaning on TW. Too may Victor Meldews on this site.

Ok ... I first saw these images at about 6.00 this morning and if I'm honest at first I was a little underwhelmed. I thought it looked a bit like two designs stuck together. But with more viewings, especially of the vid on the OS I have to say it looks good. I hope the Archibald Leitch lattice work is incorporated in to the roof structure, and personally I'd like to see the badge on the front rather than the big EVERTON letters. But...

Get this built and get it right, and we will have the most distinctive stadium in the country, if not Europe, so it's a resounding thumbs up from me, and I think it will look better in the flesh, as it were, than the images show. That's one way to get it right - make the real thing even better than the images.

Supporters of other clubs seem to like it as well (apart from the RS of course - they'll be spitting feathers).

Looks good in the video. As long as we aren't forced to make significant compromises along the way (whether caused by cost blowout, safety rules, heritage etc) then this should be exactly what we need.

Get the shovels ready lads!

Love. It.

Wanted to throw one off after seeing the video.

Was underwhelmed by the initial stills, the fly through video does a better job. I like the new-built-on-top-of-old aesthetic, something modern emerging the industrial foundations. Can't please everybody of course.

On the capacity, I think 52k is low and they are gambling on safe standing providing higher potential capacity. However, the club have to be realistic about how much an extra 5-10k seats will cost to build and the fact that the bums in the seats contribute an ever smaller slice of the total revenue stream. In a sense, they may prefer a stadium that looks and sounds good on telly!

Peter (148), great summing up of the presentation and I think you speak for the majority when you indicate this is going to be a standout stadium, glad you enjoyed this beginning of a very successful journey.

Dan Meis has done a fantastic job. Everton are going to have a great stadium and I am sure that the atmosphere will be electric.

The bricks are red, the seats are to hard, the steps are too steep, the steps are too shallow, the toilets are too clean... Christ, the thing hasn't been built yet and a thousand criticisms are being bandied about.

And as for Everton having no connection to the docks, tell that to the thousands of dockers over the generations who supported Everton, merchant seamen, ferry men, tug crews, Mersey Pilotmen, etc etc etc who supported Everton. Yes, the docks have NO connection with Everton.

Nice one Len- some of the comments I have read/ heard beggars belief.This all looks fantastic and will be a home to be proud of. Hats off to the Board and Meis.

Well I have to admit after going to Goodison for 65 years I was apprehensive over the vision an American Architect would have of what we would like our stadium to look like. But as many have said Dan Meis really gets us, and what a magnificent job he has done, seemed the more I saw of it the more I liked. The concept of brick as a nod to the docks, the Archibald Leith lattice work a nod to Goodison and the glass really really work.

But just as impressive is the design of the legacy that will be left at Goodison, have to say the club has surpassed itself with this vision. Somewhere the local community can use and somewhere in years to come fathers and Grandfathers can take their children and stand on the centre circle where all the greats have played magnificent.

Finally I hope everyone signs the petition that Peter Reid and some of our ex players have instigated. The petition is to stop the owners of our neighbouring club trying to own the franchise of Liverpool, even their own fans website Spirit of Shankly has criticized the move.

Well said Len

Tony #188 what a poignant post about saying goodbye to Goodison. I remember as the team ran out for the Coventry game in 1998 which was the second potential relegation game after Wimbledon, and I was shocked to feel tears welling up. I'm not a crier but the emotion I felt at seeing our grand old stadium in danger of hosting lower division games just got to me and I have no doubt that the day we say goodbye to the Old Lady for good will be very emotional.

That said, having seen what we will be moving to I can't wait!

I said it at the time of King's Dock and I say it again, all this needs is a big fuck-off blue laser making the club crest in the sky above the Mersey on match-days, calling the faithful to the game. Think Batman signal - and yes, I know that wasn't a laser but...

Oh, and if some naughty employee turned the beam around so it shone above their pit when they are playing at home so all they could see in sky was a bright blue St Rupert's Tower or even better, a massive blue liverbird, after all the bird IS blue and we do own the Liver Building. Come on, Dan, you can do it.

Fantastic design, really pleased with the way Dan Meis and his team have embraced the brief as to what we wanted. First class and it gives me goose bumps it is so good. It exceeds my expectations .

Only one change I would make is to re-think the Everton lettering stuck onto the side of it. It looks like a tacky afterthought somebody has copied and pasted onto the structure.

I would rather have our name on the stadium in a more classy way, rather than big plastic letters.

Something like two giant granite Prince Rupert Towers , with EVERTON F.C. in blue and gold on a granite plinth between them. All lit up so it shone at night .

Andy #206 ✔︎😁. Love it!

Before we all knock down the plans of closeness to the pitch and comparison with Goodie, I think we need some different perspective shots . cos, to me, it looks pretty damn good.

It looks fantastic. But where's the chippy?

I think that this is a massively high cost way if you skeptics out there think its a cover up for the sale of players. Let's take this as moving on into the 21st century and leaving behind that team over the way with their Lego stadium Hahahahaha

Micky #209 - he'll be with the brickie, plasterer, painter, etc.

I think it looks Boss!

The work and effort, put into this stadium planning have total commitment and credibility. Past efforts have been aspirational without the ability to deliver it. I am totally convinced that this will happen and I am excited by the prospect of watching the first game at Bramley Moore. I get the scepticism of some of the posts. If you believe in Everton, believe in this. it WILL happen.

Wow - does this mean we have won the league !

I think it is absolutely stunning. Must admit, like most I was anxious, but it ticks the boxes. I'd love to see a ferry landing stage incorporated, which would be a great differentiator to other stadiums and a further nod to the heritage of our city. Also, from what I've seen, the word 'Everton' is facing the city. I would have had that facing the waterfront.

Still feel disappointed about the capacity though. Supply creates its own demand and I'm sure there's numerous matches for which we'd get into the late 50's.

I love it. The concept of a futuristic modern stadium growing from the ashes of a 19th century warehouse. The images don't do the size justice, GPII will be colossal and if safe standing is passed we'll have the 62,000 capacity many want.

Personally I feel Dan Meis has not only listened to what we want he's also absorbed the distinct history and architectural design of our iconic world renowned waterfront and has very cleverly and sympathetically married the two.

I agree Spurs' stadium is an eyecatcher but looking from above it looks so out of place with regard to it's surroundings.

I love it too

Some of the pictures show how steep the stands are and right up on the pitch it's gonna scare the shit out of teams under the lights and in the day too if we can get our derby voices on. I love the nautical feel, plus the brickwork has given it a traditional feel and the lattice work well, just inspired

Really can't say anything bad about this, I'm made up

I looked at the vid on the Official website and looks good, from inside it looks like the fans are right on Top of the action, I am hoping this is not camera trickery but looks to have the feel of the inside of Goodison about it

Now we just have to build it :)

Dave #214

I'd like to see that. A landing pier for a shuttle to a car park in Birkenhead. For those that come over from the peninsula, create a new car park park over there, get the boat to the match and get dropped off on the jetty.

Might be an issue when tide is out though :-)

It will be great when it is actually gets build. Should have a 60, 000 capacity though, according to Paul the Esk projections.

Looks like Cardiff's and Leicesters' stadiums and loads of others.

Paul, is this the Cardiff stadium?
Link

Yes, I suppose there is a big similarity.

Paul@220 - shoulda gone to specsavers.

Brent, almost identical. It's uncanny really. Why did Dan Meis waste all that time with his scribblings?!?

More importantly, James, why have we paid Dan Meis a fortune when all he had to do was fly over the Cardiff stadium and take an aerial photo.

Just wait until it's built, James. You'll see then that Billy Boy has pulled another fast one, buying the Cardiff design for the price of a couple of tickets to one of his West End shows. That wasn't Dan Meis last night - it was Jon Culshaw.

It's like a bad dream. Why can't we just be happy?! All that time, effort, money, Everton should be ashamed of themselves.

I bloody love the designs, me :-)

James, I think you live down Norwich way (?) so you wouldn't have been there last night. I can tell you the reception for the concept and design was spine-tingling and overwhelmingly enthusiastic.

I think it looks amazing and it will be a real boost to the Club the area and the city in general. The associated benefits for everyone can't be underestimated. Plus better transport links.

This is the real thing, not a destination Kirkby fiasco, but real. Our biggest obstacle will be the thousands of objections from our lovable neighours.

Brent, yeah that's correct. The badlands of Norfolk over here.

I watched all the footage from last night, and have gorged myself on al the imagery too. It looked like a great event, and you're not the first person I've read about that felt that way.

Hats off to Dan Meis and everyone at Everton on this one - we blues are often all too quick to complain (istory n all that) but this time round I agree with you, we all should be enjoying it and letting ourselves dream for a change. The stadium looks mighty :)

This site is always so full of negativity but reading some of these comments about the new ground and the level of cynicism beggars belief. I'd love to see your designs!
To my eyes it looks fantastic and I just hope I'm not sitting (or hopefully standing) next to some of the "we're all doomed" brigade who frequent this site.
Paint it black?

Two things are sure...
1) The new stadium will cost a lot more than the current estimates.
2) And then even more.

beats the tin shed the reds have..

Can people stop being so negative. All my red mates are pissed because they see what everyone else will see when they enter the Mersey, the fantastic blue Everton stadium and then the blue Liver building.
Get the plans in, get them passed and get it built.

The more I look at it, the more I like it. The problem I had at first was that, architecturally, it's such a dog's dinner - but now that's what works about it for me. I like the idea of building that is essentially a red-brick bonded warehouse, like we still see all over the old docks, but hollowing it out and plonking a monstrosity of a glass and steel bowl inside and floating above it - it's a massive compromise of a building, but it also represents our city in a way and our club in a way too. Taking the greatness of the past and building upwards in a contemporary style. We're a club with a solid working class history, but we're looking to the future. We're a fan base that continually looks to a glorious past, but we're desperate for a successful new chapter - built on top of what has come before, not just replacing what has come before. And the stadium design embodies that.

And of course, once you're in the ground, none of the design matters except for the stands and the pitch, and that looks okay to me. Almost a bowl but definitely has the feel of a four-sided stadium.

It represents us. It's definitely an Everton design, it wouldn't work for any other club.

Pretentious? Me? Never.

...and just to add to the pretentious shite I just posted, it works in a way that the Etihad can never work - it's designed and built uniquely for us. So when we're at the stage Citteh are at, winning loads of trophies, we'll still feel like the same Everton, whereas they really feel like a brand new club in a way.

Tony @207. I agree entirely about the Everton typeface. I've always thought that looks tacky. I don't think we need it on our badge or on our stadium. Other than that though, I think Meis has exceeded my expectations. I love it. Now, the hard part starts.

Made up with the design/images, there seems to be a general feeling of satisfaction, dare I say joy, amongst our fanbase.
I have a question for some of the ToffeeWebbers with more business acumen than myself.

How do you feel this will impact on our future finances?
I don't mean with respect to matchday income which I expect will rise. I mean will this have a positive impact on deals we make with regards to kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship.

Grateful for any thoughts on this.

Iconic design in an iconic location.

Due to the tourism connected with the city, and when all the surrounding areas are also developed, we will have the most visited and talked about football ground on the planet.

Yet some are still doubters and naysayers or maybe a red fifth column?

Some of you lot need your heads examined.

Andrew #171 - "If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium, I'd expect it to look like this." Newflash - Leicester have built a stadium. It looks like this. How can you compare that to the proposed design?

As for Wolves, they revealed concept images for Molineux last month. It looks like this. Not a patch on our design and that's despite them also having billionaire owners and Champions League aspirations.

Paul Burns @ 112 and 220.

Yer 'aving a 'mare' on this thread, Paul.

Best take yerself off.

Well said, Jay @240,

Paul must be some sort of masochist. I think the overwhelming majority of Evertonians are not only pleased with the designs, they feel this will be an exceptional and just as important individual and unique stadium.

Thankfully the very very small number of dissenters aren't being taken too seriously as yet no-one has posted a valid criticism.

I would love to hear Tom Hughes thoughts on the images because he is a man worth listening to. I said yesterday and it wasn't a criticism but there is a lot to take in with the design, I think this is what makes it so good.

@239 Jhabe you ever been to Molineux.

I was shocked when I went, it is an outstanding stadium. Great atmosphere and the perfect city-centre location. It's the beating heart of their city centre.

I'd be interested in hearing from Tom Hughes too, Billy.

ALWAYS a man worth reading on stadium issues.

Billy #241 " there is a lot to take in with the design, I think this is what makes it so good".

Yes, it's like a really good painting - you keep seeing new things every time you go back to it, and seeing the same things in a different light. We have a Rembrandt compared to the painting-by-numbers of clubs like Cardiff, Leicester.

An iconic stadia built in an iconic location that is sympathetic to it's surroundings, and takes into account the past traditions of the club - yet it's still not enough for some, FFS. The ground has the capacity to expand to 62k so again thoughtful planing. A more bespoke design you could not ask for - not a soulless bowl - but a fucking huge statement of intent that will sit proudly in the heart of our city.

I just hope and pray Moshiri, Usmanov et all make this happen. Yes we could have gone to Kings Dock with more forethought but we could have ended up at destination Kirkby! I truly believe it's a catalyst to change the fortunes of our club for the better. Dan Meis has done a great job and should be applauded for his vision when working under a number of constraints.

Like a number of TW posters, I just wasn't sure when I saw the first images. Having seen the official video a number of times, I am absolutely fully on board, and yes, as so many have said, Meis fully gets Everton, the club and the supporters.

I do understand the point Meis made that it is better to have a full house of 52,000 rather than seeing empty seats in one of 62,000. I just hope that supporters who want to attend say six or seven times a season can get hold of tickets, otherwise we end up with a sort of "members only" club, which would be a shame in my opinion.

Although not too many of us on TW will be worrying about the following point, one thing that intrigues me is how many boxes and other hospitality seats we end up with. Was this mentioned at the launch? Only a few years ago I took a couple of my nephews on the Everton stadium tour during which we got told that the club had about 15 boxes, one owned by Gareth Barry at the time, compared with Man Utd who had at least 10 times that number for their prawn sandwich brigade. So this is probably an opportunity to greatly increase this particular income stream to help pay back the loan interest on Bramley-Moore Dock.

Time for a TW Poll?

Whoever made a photo of Billy Wright the first thing you see when you enter the restaurant had a sense of humour.

I can't believe the people who pick holes in this iconic design, but I guess there will always be negatives no matter what is put in front of fans. Like buying a house the first 3 things is location location location, so forget this being like something else – it's not. Unless there is something similar on the Mersey that i'm unaware of. Our new stadium in a revamped part of town glistening over the river will be a site to behold.

I have been travelling over to Goodison since the early '70s. Most of this time involving an 8-hour boat trip when we as teenagers rubbed the sleep out of our eyes on entering the Mersey at 6:30am on a Saturday morning and worst the wear for the 4 pints us, so-called BIGMEN had un-supervised on the way over.

Dublin in those days was pretty grim around the dockside stretching back into the city. Today it looks fantastic with bars,hotels etc leading all the way Liffeyside into the city. There is a lot a similarities with Liverpool. What we Evertonians are going to have is something really special. Something for us all to be proud of.

An iconic stadium right on the river for everybody to see and admire. If i'd have dreamed out this years ago on the boat i'd have put it down to that extra pint. COYB

I think it looks awesome. Having seen some of the earlier artist impressions which were kind of generic, I can't believe how much better this looks.

It combines heritage with a futuristic outlook and does it in a really tasteful way. It brings tears of joy to my eyes. Wow - just wow.

Is it just me or was that Moise Kean wearing number 9 as the players walked past the prawn sandwich brigade on their way out onto the pitch?

I commented somewhere on this last night but it was on my way out of London, so apologies if I imagined it or if I am repeating myself!!

No need to be negative whatsoever. This is iconic in terms of the setting and the fact the design respects the heritage of the Liverpool docks surrounded by modernity. It's a step into the future, but one that reflects the club and the north Liverpool area that has been and will continue to be our home. I like that. I originate from south Liverpool by the way and made a purely selfish claim for Speke years ago!!

I saw earlier someone suggest Everton has no connection with the docks. As the original & oldest club in a City who's history & heritage is intrinsically entwined in the docks of what was the leading port of the British Empire, I would suggest that the inhabitants of that city and generations of Everton supporters do indeed have strong links to the docks.

I also saw suggestions that it is something we would expect Leicester or Wolves to come up with. As someone rightfully said, we shouldn't belittle those clubs in terms of recent achievements versus our. Secondly, have you seen the Kingpower (see image provided earlier)? It's a poor man's Stadium of Light or St Mary's "Lite". And Molineux; a shoe box and if those designs for future development posted above are real then they've gone down the Anfield "big stand" avenue. They'll have a shoe-box stadium with a really tall stand. Yes, really iconic; we done that in 1970.

I like it. Stunning setting, blends the modern with heritage; just what I'd want and expect from Everton Football Club.

I'll admit that I wasn't looking forward to My first viewing of our new concrete & glass box, some weird, otherworldy "statement".

Some things Dan Meis had said last year at St Lukes had really underwhelmed. 52,000, cramped site, no features echoing The Grand Old Lady. I was ready to be bloody disappointed and that would add massively to the impending "home-sickness" when we leave.

Then last night I watched the video. First impression was "this isn't as shit as I was dreading". Still only 52,000. But, I really wasn't horrified at all.

Watched it over again a few times last night and then it hit Me "Bloody hell! This feels like Everton !". Especially the pitch views from eye level. Something just felt VERY, VERY at home!

Now that I've watched again and again I'm really getting it. The brickwork echoes the warehouses all along the waterfront and within that are Leitch-ian criss crosses. The shining superstructure rising from the warehouse style brickwork.

Not only am I not deeply disappointed, I think I'm falling in love., ferchrissakes I was even selecting a spot for My future season ticket.

Then, I pop home, and lying on the mat is 2019-20 season ticket for Goodison Park and I feel like I'm betraying her. I still don't really want to go, but it's all so tempting.

Being a bit nerdy, and because the cricket finished early I did some Googling of Bramley-Moore and I was really surprised by the very positive media coverage. Most articles I've read have nothing but good things to say – 'stunning' and 'striking' crop up a few times to describe it (as well as at least one 'beautiful'). I wonder how this will impact on the esteem that EFC is held in around the globe? Might we look forward to a bidding war for stadium naming rights, sponsorship opportunities and other income streams?

Colette, that was just you.

It was Niasse. In the new place he has the biggest locker... right next to Mirallas, who will be signing a new contract any day now.

Makes you glad destination Kirby never happened hey!

Some things are fated.

At first I was a bit Meh but I actually really really like it. Every time you look at it you notice something different. Makes the emirates look like something from 1965.

You don't have to have the biggest but you can have the best. Old Trafford is falling apart with holes in the roof and leaks etc. What a time to be blue will feel more comfortable when the diggers actually turn up.

Hope it gets built in the next 5yrs. Half expecting some red in the city council to delay the project. All I'll say if that if this falls through then the damage to us fans could be catastrophic . don't know if I could take the heart break.

I agree with Brent @ 244 when he describes the images as "like a really good painting - you keep seeing new things every time you go back to it, and seeing the same things in a different light."

These are only CGIs so I wouldn't be overly concerned about the minutiae of the lettering of the club name or which side if any that should appear on the exterior of the stadium as some have expressed. That is easily altered at any time and I rather think that in this day and age the stadium exterior will be used as a canvas, a cinema screen, on which to project lazer and light images rather than having some fixed or semi-permanent display.

I wondered at first about the mix of brickwork, steel and glass, but - maybe just my imagination - it seemingly strives to do a number of things.

The brickwork is in keeping with the original dock works (and of course has the distinctive Archie Leitch cross-hatched effect inlaid in the brick face; the cross-hatching appears to be replicated to a degree in some of the steel supports within the stadium).

The effect is that it complements and rises out of the same brickwork as the dock, whilst the prow-shape of the stadium and its close proximity to water gives the impression - more so, from a distance or approaching riverside, I imagine - that it is 'boat-like', seemingly sitting in water.

As the stadium scales upwards it evolves from its 'past' into a modern-day stadium of steel and glass. The roofing also appears to have a generous cover to better protect punters from the icy blasts that can come off the river in the depths of winter.

There will be an ample 'fan zone' area - capacity for 14,000 they say. Inside, it appears some of the concourses offer stunning views of both the city and the waterfront. And who wouldn't want a table in that lounge with such close access to the players' tunnel? To my eyes, the whole is very aesthetically pleasing.

If you haven't caught it yet, there is a really good 20 minute podcast with Dan Meiss up on the club site now. Link here:

Link

Its FAB. Thunderbirds are go ! hopefully !

It looks great and being Blue, Modern and New I fully expected it to look great and lets face it we all saw the leaks anyway.
The capacity disappoints me. We have the opportunity to have the biggest stadium in the city and haven't taken it.
Same day the other lot announce they are expanding too, absolute gutted.

Alan 9, Man City and Spurs both moved home from smaller grounds than Goodison. The wont fill it shout has no substance. Did they clone fans?

We had bigger attendances than Liverpool when we challenged for trophies.

Carraghers input genius for boards intentions. The spitter who said he hated Evertonians loves he fact we are building a smaller stadium than them.

They will dictate safe standing too if it gets approval.

I'm a big fan of the new design. It fits perfectly on the waterfront, pays homage to the city and is a great location for our new home. Also, it won't look like a vanity project in 30 years.

The only minor gripe is that dated 'Everton' typeface on the glass which looks amateur. I'm sure they can come up with something better and it's glass so easily replaced. I'm so glad Arsenal, Man City and West Ham went first so we could learn what not to build.

I really dislike this 'blue wave' nonsense though. It's just a piss-poor impersonation of Dortmund's 'yellow wall'. Do we not have our own sense of identity?? It's the same marketing nonsense as 'the People's Club'. We should really stop spewing this crap as a club.

Let's hope the stadium happens and it doesn't get a terrible name like 'The SportPesa Stadium'. I'm sure they'll be out of business by then anyway. ;)

Karl 11. Thats true mate and they will hold all sorts if events the council has blatently helped their books out with while locals who opposed were ignored.

Going bigger than them for attraction reasons was essential.

It looks amazing. I can't believe people are moaning

Paul, you appear to be on the "size matters" side of the debate. "Essential"...so you think that proposal will be a failure??

Where are the police horses, hot dog sellers and most importantly that fat bald twat who still hates Hibbo.

It's absolutely fantastic. I can't fathom how anyone can't see that. Spurs fans are complaining we've copied them for God's sake. We will have the best club ground in the country, simple as that.

As for size, we need a ground sold out each week, not advertising on Talksport to try and fill the ground each week like Man City.

Paul @ 260.

Listen to the linked Dan Meis podcast from around 5 minutes in, in which he discusses in detail the capacity question and the atmosphere generated.

"Capacity is not about ambition. That's just one component of it."

Link

Anfield, whatever capacity it will grow to, is a patched up rebuild of a 1950s stadium. Bramley-Moore Dock will be custom-built from the ground up for the 21st century.

I couldn't care a monkey's fart if, standing in a smelly urinal at Anfield, one of their's leans over and says "mine is bigger than yours" when our own Bramley-Moore Dock stadium makes that such a hollow boast on every other criterion you could mention.

Once again the negativety of contributors on this site and of our fans make me cringe.ive supported Everton all my life and took my son to watch the mancs at home and he couldn't believe how run down the area around the ground was as well as the ground itself.
For God's sake this is the most positive and decisive move this club has made in its history, 500 million reasons to be happy.yeh we could have gone out and bought shit loads of overpriced players but I believe that this whole era is about building a foundation for Everton to become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.it may take a few more years but I for one have experienced the dark days much like many any man city fan and I believe we will become the number one club in the city in
The not to distant future.
If your that pissed off with the way the club is heading then go support someone else!!
Just like the shambles of a board that are gradually being rooted out you won't be missed!

David #268: fret not. This is one of the most positive threads I have ever seen on TW.

Personally I would have had a small cage in corner where the serial moaners could gather every game and share just how bad their week has been!

No Danny thats silly. Essential as in terms of growth.
If you think not being happy with capacity is a being negative it just shows how shallow people are. I already said it looked great so why isn't it positive?

All this Dan Meis atmopshere intimacy does nothing for me to be honest. He wont be generating an atmosphere there and the other shower and Spurs etc will have bigger attendances in great atmospheres without the jargon of intimacy.

Jay how pathetic is that shout about Anfield.
I go the toilet at goodison now and like every other man that does, I get tiny little dots of someone elses urine on my shoe and guess what, its never stopped me going to the game or the toilet.
What are you going to do, brag we have better toilets than them?

I just wanted to see us outsize them so Bramley Moore was the new attraction and THE venue where we make money when we dont play.

The game is about FFP and book balancing and the council give them a license to help their books.

Anyone know why "empty seats" Man City are expanding?

"Outsize". So size does matter. Juventus seem to be doing okay since downsizing and we are actually up-sizing by 12K so it is growth.

You actually have some good points. No need to call others that have different views as being "silly" or "pathetic".

Danny I don't mean to offend anyone mate thats never my intention and I apologise if anyone is.

However I cant take comments about urine smelling grounds seriously when they mean absolute nothing to the game or even have any cloud on the praise Anfield wrongly gets.

The outsize thing to keep it simple I used outsize to explain we needed the biggest stadium in the city without the worry of Safe Standing being approved
If I wanted to build for the sake of it I could go mad and suggest 70000.

Spurs and City have left smaller stadiums than Goodison to move into bigger stadiums than Bramley Moore.
City are expanding again, why?
The need them extra few games of revenue and want to challenge old trafford for major events.

People are quick to forget we sold goodison out every week in far bigger attendances than today when we were the team up there

Isnt that what this is all about, getting back there?

Winston Churchill said, " Never say anything is good, or bad, just say, " I like it", or, "I don't like it", since good, or bad is a matter of opinion.

Abraham Lincoln said, " You can fool some of the people some all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

Both comment apply to the new "Goodison", or "BMD".

Personally - I like it!

But - to quote another well known saying - ' You pays your money and you takes your choice.".

Liked comment on You Tube to the effect "Only Everton build stadiums in Liverpool".

I like that Hugh, bit of whit and intellect.
I understand its totally outrageous to post in a non generic way on here or any of them brain zapp social media outlets but I can only post as I feel I honestly can, (however unpopular that may be) and try to remember my Evertonian roots of seeing masses of blues climbing into stadiums before the days we depressed too many.

Within reason, both Maine Road & White Hart Lane were similar sized capacity to Goodison (circa 35K & 36K respectively to our 39K), so technically you can call them smaller but in real terms you're splitting hairs. In City's case in particular, and for different reasons (they inherited / consumed a stadium rather than build), they moved from 35K to 55K stadium, not too far removed from our 39K to 52K.

The fact they are seeking to expand needs context; they've been in the Ethiad for 16 years.

So City moved from a stadium that was more or less the same size as ours to a stadium that is more of less the same size as our proposed one. Once successful, they decide to further expand. I would argue Liverpool, albeit a different model, have done similar; expand as you grow and succeed. It wasn't too long ago that Anfield had a 45K capacity.

This potential move sees us increase our current capacity by approximately 12K and then we can build upon that as we deem necessary or fit in the future. Immediate growth with potential for further future growth.

But that aside, it looks stunning & I love it!!

David@ 268.I think this is magnificent. So do you..Some don't. You really should not suggest they go and support another club.

I agree Danny it has a great look. City are not expanding because they have been there 16 years are they?

They are doing it because the game moves forward fast and even without selling out every game they understand the need to expand with the popularity of the game.

People are talking like we will sell 52k in 3rd round Caraboa cup games.
Whats the difference in seeing more empty seats in an even bigger ground v Yoevil to a few empty seats in a 55/58k capacity league game?

Liverpool always needed a bigger stadium mate thats plain obvious.

Hicks and Gillet were clueless but knew that and couldnt pull it off.

They are just scared to leave Anfiled now with it being so popular and having so much hold on teams in giant games.

Forget City and Spurs if its easier and think of West Ham then Wolves next, they had nothing like Goodison but bigger than Bramley Moore.

Its not done for a laugh is it and West Ham are looking to make theres 62000 now.

Looks great, but I'm on the side of would have liked it 55-60 thousand capacity.
That's not moaning boys that's a critical personal opinion.
Granted its tough for Moshiri and the board to decide where to draw the line on expenditure as we also need a proper team to fill it each home game.

Hey Paul, we all have Evertonian roots, that's why we're here!! I also remember that dark days of the 13K that turned up for the Coventry 0-0 ("Kendall must go" leaflet day).

I was a season ticket holder when we won leagues & trophies in the 84 - 87 period yet still struggled to fill our then 52K capacity stadium. I appreciate the economic circumstances and footballing landscape were different then but if I recall (and I haven't bothered googling), we struggled to get 32 - 33K average back then.

Great to see the different views on here and I'm not one to impose mine but I really do fail to see a negative in this proposal.

I have been going to Goodison since 1960. That's a long time and a lot of memories ( good and bad!).

Part of me feels sad to go away but it has to be done. Our existing stadium is to put it bluntly a crumbling wreck and seriously holding us back.

The designs are very positive and appealing. I've been to most of the 'new' stadiums in the UK. The majority are very bland and lacking in style and differentiation.

The dockside location presents both opportunities and challenges. Transport and accessibility will be key issues to resolve but with some (pardon the pun) blue sky thinking these can be overcome.

I always see that capacity gets people agitated but the economics are crucial here. Many clubs have suffered financially after moving to new stadiums through over spending (Leiceter and Southampton both nearly went bust). Trust the financial gurus on this one.

Sadly I see that whilst we can at last celebrate some likely progress, a number of posters can still not talk about the new stadium without continually bringing Liverpool FC into the conversation.

With 2 match going LFC supporting brothers I am never short of interesting conversations about stadiums and ground expansions. Let's face it both clubs have have lagged behind others until very recently.

I read that some of you think the RS are really upset and concerned about our plans. 'Heads falling off etc'

Quite simply they don't care whether we get a new stadium or not ( and they are sensible guys in their 60's). I suspect their outlook is fairly typical.
They may wonder how we are going to pay for it ( and most of us on TW are also thinking about that) but that's as far as it goes. As for their own stadium they tell me they wouldn't swap it for anything in the world.

We can do nothing about our neighbours and posting inane comments about them is a waste of keystrokes.

Celebrate the fact that after the false starts of Kings Dock, Destination Kirkby and Walton Hall Park, we have a real 'Golden Vision' for an iconic stadium at long last.

The acid test is the funding. I am cautiously optimistic it will happen but will be a lot happier when I see cranes, bulldozers and cement lorises trundling along Regent Road.

Then I will think about where my grandson will want our season tickets to be in the new ground!

Sorry Danny I had to edit my last one mate. Good to connect still Danny I appreciate the debate.

Pat 282 i agree mostly and i also believe all the facilities in the world wont bother them one iota.

Hey Paul, you too. Good to discuss.

I have the fortune (misfortune depending on how you view) to live in London now and know a lot of local West Ham fans. They despise what they have. And interesting to see your stats. The London Stadium already has a capacity of 60K (unregulated) but can go to 66K (regulated), so confused by the "plans" to expand to 62K.

Wolves; my wife is from Dudley and a lot of the in laws are Wolves fans. Their current capacity is 32K (ish); from what I've heard on the local news, the plans are to take it up to somewhere between 46 - 50K, so slightly smaller than our proposal.

The point on City and Liverpool is that they have expanded progressively.

I think there is a quiet sub-text around capacity. I am sure that Everton would have liked to have been able to incorporate safe standing into the stadium proposals, which would add perhaps 6,500 onto the capacity, but have chosen not to do so at present because:-

A) it is currently not legal, and

B) it would be a very sensitive issue, as it is something currently opposed by the Hillsborough Support Group. The root of such opposition is totally understandable given the heartache those people have had. But, personally, I believe the safe standing barrier system to be much safer than the current accepted practice of standing in seating areas.

This would not be the time to go into major public debate on such an issue. There is no point in complicating matters for something which would be purely theoretical. Better to go through the planning process for what can currently be achieved, build flexibility into the stadium, see if the legislation changes, if it does then discuss the sensitivities around it with the appropriate people.

That West Ham stadium is split I think because a fan on the radio was adamant the fans sat around him loved it.
Their argument is all about the look and layout though isn't it? They are surely on the same page and happy with the new numbers?

Look, layout, atmosphere etc. But general opinion from most I speak to is they don't like it. No one actually mentions capacity to be honest.

I hope plenty of people who want changes do attend the consultation meet. I am happy with it, though hoping it only gets better when the design is finalized after public consultation.

Are the in laws worried about Empty seats in a 30-40 % increase on capacity because the Wolves owners don't seem to be?

It will hit everyone when these clubs end up with stadiums our size after being much smaller attractions than us.

West Ham dont mention capacity now because its not a worry anymore.

In-laws don't really comment Paul. I just introduced them as I have local insight, so correct, they don't worry.

Exactly, capacity isn't a concern; just like it wasn't / isn't for Liverpool or City.

I'm personally content with the plans. I think we've got this right. We increase capacity significantly and retain a bit of character.

Peter 285 spot on. I have been trying to stress this a lot. Liverpool are going to have a big say on safe standing so never we will be allowed to open a bigger capacity than them.

Thats my view of how I see it going and not a shred of doubt whatsoever that safe standing numbers will be capped.

This the whole reason I argue we should go bigger with or without safe standing.

No Danny I like the plans but not the size and like I say the plans are novelty and will soon wear off when fans realise Wolves generate more cash than us.

Today I like the look but I also look forward.

Size doesn't matter!!!

Liverpool & United will always be top dogs in terms of numbers.

City are top dogs right now on the pitch. where it actually matters.

If you're basing it on capacity, how will Wolves generate more cash than us if their stadium is smaller?

And there are plans to expand if we need / want to. Forward looking.

Paul @ 270.

"Jay how pathetic is that shout about Anfield."

That 'WHOOSHING!' sound you just heard, Paul...?

That's the sound of a playful analogy going waaay over your head.

Give it a good shake...whichever head is your preference, that is.

Was just reminiscing with my missus about first visit to Goodison.

My main memory was going up the stairs and being gob- smacked when me and my Dad emerged and I first saw the huge pitch and stands and heard the fans.

In the end, whether there were 50,000 or 60,000 there didn't matter a jot.

With this new stadium it is great to know a load of kids will have the same wide-mouthed experience too.

I was hooked for life and that moment will hook them too.

It's theirs!

Paul #291, it seems we think alike but draw different conclusions!

I believe safe standing will be allowed in future, simply because it is much safer than what currently happens. If so, we would have a flexible capacity, 52,000 for all seated, perhaps 58,500 with safe standing. Sounds ok to me. Time will tell.

Dermot, I'm with you. When I saw the design I felt immense pride at seeing our potential future iconic home sat there on the banks of the Mersey.

But then I felt emotional & disloyal. The memories, not just on the pitch, but the Goodison Supper Bar, the Anfield Pub and walk up City Road. Probably one of the last remaining traditional match going experiences left in the top flight of English Football!

God Bless you Goodison. God welcome you Bramley Moore Dock.

Jay@267
I like the plans for the new ground ( it's always a ground never a stadium) but how many 21st century prem grounds extend or new builds only hold 52000

New build or not, there are only 8 grounds in the country above that mark Eric. Newcastle just scrape it and even our cousins are only 2K above the 52 mark.

In my opinion, size really doesn't matter. It's far more important to fill the ground every week and have a banging atmosphere. When I go to the Emirates, my first thought isn't "this is great, it's a bigger ground than Goodison", it's "this is a shit atmosphere and there are loads of empty seats where the so-called fans can't be arsed to turn up".

If we can get 52,000 week in week out screaming their lungs out, that'll do me. Fuck what the other lot get, that's the least of our problems the way they're playing these days. Anyway, best game I ever went to at Goodison? Everton v Bayern of course. And how many in the crowd that day? 49,476

The capacity will be 52000 with the possibility of increasing it to 62000 according to the latest reports. This will probably be due to safe standing if/when it is allowed.
I was at yesterday evening's presentation and I think that the ground will be stunning when completed.

Eric @ 300.

In answer to your question, dunno! Do you? Do the research and get back to us.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I lean towards Paul The Esk's camp in which he argues for a higher capacity NOW. I'm not taking issue or arguing vehemently with anyone in this thread expressing the view that we should build more seats NOW.

I have shared the Dan Meis interview link. I have highlighted exactly where in the 20 minute interview he talks about the capacity question. I have offered absolutely no opinion for or against the mooted 52k capacity discussed in the thread, other than to say I'm not in the least bit concerned about having bragging rights over the 'bours on 'size'.

I'll leave it to each individual TWer to listen or not to Meis' comments and to comment or not on what he says.

The stadium design is so good funding now will not be a problem.

I mean if I had the money, I would pay for it. So someone out there with the money, will.

My 2 cents. my initial reaction was literally being blown away! It is truly beautiful!

The glass ceiling reflecting our name across the water will be spectacular (if that is what I think it will do)...

This will be an iconic stadium, purpose built for a team that has heritage and take it's seriously.

People seem to think size matter and is a badge of honour. Meis actually answered that brilliantly. It is more important to have a full noisy stadium than a big one. 52000 is not small and with the fans close it will have an absolutely amazing atmosphere!
TV money means more than an extra few thousands chairs in the cheap seats.

Couldn't have wished or hoped for something this stunning! Very proud and wondering how I can get to the first game from across a continent!

Michael #302: totally agree with you.

I am in dreamland (most of the time to be honest) and dream of passengers on cruise ships arriving at a new cruise terminal and then hearing that roar and visiting our shop along with the other attractions in the biggest development the city has seen for years.

Maybe we should also sing "And if..ya know...yer future..."?

I wouldn't worry about the funding
They could probably get most of the money doing a selling a brick with your name on it !
A legacy not only for the Club but for the supporters of a hundred tears in the future
Easy enough to put a landing stage near the dock so our Wirral and North Wales brethren can join us without adding to the parking carnage

Dermot@297
Great post. Goodison was ours. Our memories, our family, our fortress. Here is to hoping Bramley Moore will be the same to our young supporters. As you say, Its theirs,
Given the night lights, the siren and a roar off the river. They could make it a the new bear pit. A place where opposition teams just don't want to come.

Time to to reflect, and this should give every Evertonian hope for the future, and forget the rest, as they don't matter.

And for this new season, I sense a burst of positiveness for the new season, albeit preseason has been tame, all considered, so far. This weekend may see more goals in Bremen, than the previous friendliest. Interesting to see if DCL starts as the striker.

But in MS and MB we trust.

The Liver Building lit, the Toffee trail from town to BMD, and the majesty of what is being achieved at BMD and GP, is if it all happens, some fine achievement.

And then.. for a winning team!

Danny you are right mate I should have said as much as us in Wolves case but they are competing with us now.
They get a 45000 capacity they might be the new Everton with closest foundations for breaking the top 4.

Hi all, as a match going supporter of 71 years [1948], and at the age of 81, I think that this is a monumental step forward in the history of our club, I can't understand how anyone can pick faults with the proposals of the club, as regards to capacity. I appreciate that football appeals to the masses, and to compare present day attendances to those of the past, when it was watched predominately by working class men, is not an ideal way to broach the subject.

However, in our Championship season of 1963 our average attendance was 51,460 [a club record] so in light of that, my opinion is that 52,000 is a sensible figure to arrive at, with the possibility to increase if and when circumstances allow.

My only concern is that it may have come a little late for me, but I have no doubt that my grandson will grasp the baton.

John -

What a great thing to have seventy one years of match going history under your belt, and the wonderful perspective that must bring.

I sincerely hope BMD is completed and you can get to a game there.

Respect John, respect.

Jay [BRZ], if the lovable neighbours day anything about the capacity and bragging rights I just tell them...

We're going for quality supportors over quantity 'cos as you know 1 Evertonian is worth 20 redshite supporters so our new ground on the banks of the Royle Blue Mersey will be better than having 1 million at yours.

I must say that I was underwhelmed when I saw the first links, but later ones highlighting the brickwork detail looked more impressive.

Let's see how the concept design evolves into final design as there's a lot of steps on the way and I have the feeling it will be a Design and Build tender so Meis will not actually be developing the design.

It's gear, it's fab, it's effing awesome. Exciting days ahead. Where is the tribute to Archibald Leitch? Lattice work?

Ron, it's being built into the brickwork with different coloured bricks.

Eric @ 314.

Exactly, mate.

I'll back sharp-witted Evertonians to always, ALWAYS have a reply that flummoxes them.

It is absolutely amazing that the man who is delivering all of this as chairman is none other than BK the bogey man and for me he deserves massive credit for how he has turned the club around. I'm not being provocative but, as I have always said, he was never deserving of the bile that was directed at him on this board. Can we give him some credit now? Perhaps a little humility from some? Perhaps now we can even bury some of the BK myths? Like I say, no provocation intended (honest), I've never changed my tune over BK but maybe, just maybe, I was being fair to him? The ground looks perfect and the capacity I trust the club to get right. Unlike fans they understand the economics.

John Mac,good post.. I think this stadium looks just awesome. Here's my worry, though:
At the minute we are a middle to top club, yet tickets are hard to get. Without the kindness of the Abrahams family it would be a long time since I watched my team live. I hope and believe that a new stadium will go hand in hand with a winning team. Therefore, I fear that a fifty two thousand capacity will mean that overseas blues are rarely going to ever be in it.
Peter @298,I don't think I need to repeat my respect for your views but any kind of standing at a match concerns me. Rather than advocating safe standing I would argue that stewards should enforce safe seating.
I know I am behind the times on this and that I am in a minority but,for me, standing at football matches will take us back to bad old days.

Martin,you are being provocative and I think you know it. I was going to list the Kenwright shit but, no.

Andy, surely there's a centre ground where those that want to stand do and those that want to sit do too. The current situation means those that sit have their rights denied by those near them who stand. Many people want to stand.

Andy, I expected your response too but you'll get no response from me other than you won't list BK's sh*t because it is very easy to shoot down. Do you deny me the right to comment?

Hail Kenwright . And let's now bury the BK myths!

Haven't read all posts so apologies if this is in there, but do the plans still include the exposed brickwork of the dock walls behind the goals as per the leaked plans a little while ago?

Yes, let's bury the myths that BK took a second mortgage on his house to save the Club, and the Fortress Fund myth that "the cheque's in the post" and the King's Dock myth that the money's ringfenced, and the Desperation Kirkby myth that we're getting a virtually free stadium.

All hail Emperor Bill while he plays his fiddle.

Martin Mason the man who wanted lead the march to Kirkby now trying attribute and wallow in the glory. for shame! For shame!

No, Martin, I respect your views. I disagree with you on Bill Kenwright but the debate has been done to death. I think we can agree that whoever is responsible, the new stadium look special.
As for standing, my views are perhaps unfairly biased by being injured and crushed as a kid.

Why not just for once have a positive thread rather than drag up little spats from the past.

People hold views, change views, play games and sometimes post after a skinful.

Let's focus for once on something good rather than drag up arguments about squabbles that are losing their relevance daily as the Board changes.

Jay # 267 - thanks for the link. As I listened to Dan Meis I got the sense that he is a very genuine person (as opposed to a spin doctor) but the comment that sealed it for me came about the 19 or 20 minute mark. When asked about his favourite stadium design he said - this is where my heart is! We have got him.

About the stadium capacity - like a lot of us I was hoping for 55k or over but Dermot's post @ 297 got me reminiscing also. I started going to the game with my dad (God rest his soul) in 1961. I can recall in the 62/63 season I started going with two mates and the entrance to Goodison Rd terraces was 3/- if I am not mistaken.

There were only 5 home games with crowds over 60k in the season (courtesy Everton Results) Link and as I recall it any crowd over 50k and the place was jumping. John Mc you posted while I was typing this.

I have downloaded the app for iPad which shows views to each side of the stadium from the centre of the pitch.
Link

Given the slope of the stands and the height of the roof and steel work above the pitch, our new stadium when it is built, will be even more threatening to away sides than Goodison is now (provided of course the crowd is in full voice)

Like many others have commented above, the more I look at the graphics, the more impressed I am. I think it is absolutely outstanding.

Andy, I don't really agree that the debate has been done to death because a man was badly wronged and he deserves to be rehabilitated.
Dermot I will say no more but these weren't little spats. These were a man being tried by the Kangaroo court of Social Media with nobody to defend him. I won't get involved in an argument but hope that what I do say can perhaps change the views of some and give this guy some credit.
Everton were unsuccessful when BK was chairman therefore it was the fault of him is logically false.

Ray 317, thanks for the info.

The more I watch the fly-around video on the official EFC site, the more I like what I see. And having just listened to the podcast interview with Dan Meis (credit to Jay Wood #258 for the link), 100% convinced the guy gets Everton. At worst, he says all the right things.

If I were going to nit-pick I wanted to see a Leitch lattice on the inside that's more obvious than the roof steelwork where nobody will notice it unless it's pointed out. But regardless of that if we end up with something close to what's been published I'll be happy.

I was in town today (last day of a weeks hols in Liverpool) and I had the pleasure of getting the virtual tour. I tell you what, it was emotional! I almost choked after seeing the stadium.
I also got to meet Dan Meis who was there. All I asked him was not to let us down after so many false dawns and, lo and behold, he told us it's a done deal. The money is there, the permits will be approved and building will start next year!
It looks like it's going to happen and I can't wait. I love it.
I even got interviewed outside by this really good looking bird for the radio.

Said earlier when I saw it...i love this stadium!

Next week i'm quitting my life/job to build it...

People are gonna hate shit or like it man, that's their opinion...

I'm bidding to have my, daughters and girls seat as of now...Fuck the haters as you can stay in Anfield our old ground...or Goodison... a ground I feel at home at personally.

Let's get this beauty built asap.

* Did I say we need a striker too ?! @ Mike G, Bit like are we there yet? C'mon my brother, we got Coby SubZero, Zach, OPJ, Markkanen and WCJ starting bro...Thad off the bench, relax my man.

Make the best of every day and being Evertonians, we are blessed.

This is great news and I hope will start a new era. Fekkn the RS, this is our 3rd ground, we don't need them.

EFC at the fore, and this spec, can't be beaten..

See the Boro, when they moved, see Sunderland, and they didn't do half the planning and preparations, so Id, say give the club a massive amount of credit and good will, based on this plan.

The past can catch up with all of us for better and worse, and in GP, and in following EFC, the finest days of my life.

Now the Echo is stirring preseason 1994, which was part Germany, the last leg, and Stadlohn and preseason, 25 years ago and Mike Walkers, demise.

Dave Prentice was there, and many others, but now is the future, and if BMD, comes off, and happens, it's an incredible boost for all Evertonians.

Viva Everton!

Nows our time, ( but the caveat is some good buys, in the next 2 weeks,Lol)

Ah Mr Glassar, good lad, exactly my man. Fed up with people chatting negative spill when this is a good thing.

" Nothing amazes me what you'll come out with next Darren" Colin 2018 lmfao.

God bless ya mate, you know me so well.

1: CB, 2: STRIKER or two, 3: Left footed winger, 4: STRIKER/ partner for 2 or DCL. 5: That stadium please but with the opportunity to expand like said. 6: Feck the RS...

Now for the transport. Hovercraft from west Kirkby pick me up at Moreton, Goerge Mc from New Brighton. Add a bar Happy days. The blues Boose cruse. Does it get any better

Colin #333.

Told you, you've got the face for radio mate! 🤣

@338 Brian...nailed it mate.

Mike... can it start on River Weaver in Cheshire. Can join Mersey by ship canal entrance.

Oh, titter.

Anyone care to guess who the following is dedicated to?

Link

Jay was it me buying the new away top ?...Got it for the lil one fgs.

It's our fellow RS new song I say...hahahaaaa, Welcome to EVERTON

Dermot, I'd be happy if it went from. Anglesey along as they wake me up at Morton on the way home.

Just watched the video for the umpteenth time. Still finding it hard to take in. Just imagine the first home game!

Brian we won't be imaging the first home game we!ll be living it soon coyb

Mike can I have a Hovercraft from South London to me ma's place I own? I will give my petrol money from my Fireblade to Cancer the miles I do every home game man. Seems legit.

Well I don't know about anybody else but I have a plan for one of the first games in our new home!

I'm going to get the train over to the other side of the river (I'm currently living in the North end of the city) on the morning of the game, a few pints, then I'll let everyone know I'm getting the ferry to the match!!!!!!

A ferry docking point at Bramley Moore would be a dream come true!!

Martin @ 330,

I really don't think this is the thread for this. Why do you not put up a article "rehabilitating" Bill Kenwright? Let us have a proper debate. Come on, back up your defence with facts. Stop commenting and state your view. Rehabilitate your man.

I can assure you that my views are not so entrenched that I will not view your article with an open mind. Let us hear from you, not from the sidelines, but in your full, backed by facts, argument.

Darren, I'd love to help you out but maybe Bill could charter out the QEII for our southern cousins.

Andy @ 348.

See my link at 341.

He's just baiting.

The irony of it all the red shite Vikings flying into John. Lennon. The none Viking blues. Sailing into our new ground.

What will be the match day revenue?

Will ticket prices increase?

I do like the design and think this is a very positive step forward.

LMFAO Mike C...i'd rather do the mileage my man

Fuck me he'll charge me per millimetre too.

Hope we get our signings in man, not the 24 hour garage ones we are accustom to though...even retired Crouch gave up, nice guy tbh as he lives near me and walks his dog where I walk mine

We gotta trust this...and I for one will.

Then I can slate or moan if we don't do so...

John V, it will yes...but to put it blunt, you'll see one hell of an amazing stadium with the noisiest crowd ever built bar none, COYB

To me the images are alluring, comprising as they do the stadium only, with no reference to transport accessibility. I'll be fully on board when the council depict their proposals to alleviate what will undoubtedly be mega-congestion on match days without a serious and expensive overhaul.

And Martin (#330), with respect, if you think there's a case for the defence of Kenwright you probably think BoJo isn't an egotistical, lying, racist ignoramus. The evidence is clear against both charlatans, albeit not to the extent of criminal liability, yet.

The first game at Bramley-Moore Dock will be some day and by the time hopefully the surrounding area will have benefited as much in context as around Goodison, and the legacy project.

If it does as claimed it will, then in modern day politics, and synthetics, EFC, deserves a gold medal and UK political salute.

This is a defining moment in the history of The City and the North Docks.

Inspiring, but let's see the plans for transport etc and the 3-4 mile radius of Bramley-Moore Dock.

The worst bottle necks in local transport exist, so let's hope future planning and vision in the future infrastructure is also well planned.

Jay... subtle, accurate and funny.

On face value, with this ground development, no one should loose!

We are very lucky fans. We have a club and management team that cares and is listening.

Imagine how many fans would have voted against concrete posts that obstruct the view when Goodison park was built? I would have been grateful since our view is partly obstructed in lower Bullens.
Imagine our views on food and toilets would we have changed facilities at Goodison Park?

We now have the first view of our new ground and they are asking us what do you want to change?

Maybe the players tunnel could be made of glass that electrically becomes opaque when needed. The point being we can still change, add or delete things. This build is a 3-year project. With 1 year to go before building starts and thousands of much-needed jobs are created on Merseyside thanks to Everton FC.

We have another 3-year project involving Mr Brands and Mr Silva. We are one year in and we now have players we never thought we would get playing football that has the whole of the league concerned that the lion of Merseyside is waking up.

As we enter the 2nd year of the 3 year plan we have to be careful of financial FairPlay. No one likes to see good players go but many have left and then ultimately found themselves in a worse situation. This year I am hoping we are going to be pleasantly astounded again in the quality of players we sign but we must sell to invest in new players.

We are not in Europe but we have to inform the current and prospective players that we will be very very shortly, please share the journey with us.

What Dan Meis didn't reveal was that the stadium will float and can be towed down to the Pier Head for concerts.

Darren 334, it'll be a fun season and we don't have to worry about the playoffs, because we still have nobody who can shoot. And I hope you enjoy as much as I do the debates over Bill Kenwright, because nobody in Everton land knows what bad management really is. Oh, what we could tell them about GarPax!!

I think the new stadium design looks great.

The planning and overall approach to stakeholder engagement has been professional and prudent.

Well done Everton FC!

This will be a great project for Everton and for the City of Liverpool.

I can't wait to see a game in the new stadium.

Graeme #3,

The Bramley-Moore Dock project and timescale of consultations etc has been set out for some time and is happening on schedule.

It has absolutely nothing to do with masking the sale of players. If you think the club would go to the expense of hiring the Titanic Hotel, flying Dan Meis over etc etc, just to provide a smokescreen for flogging a fringe player like Lookman, then you really do need to get a grip.

Paul @ 260, comparing Anfield to BMD is like comparing old Wembley to new Wembley. The first held more supporters, had tons of history but was a crumbling relic that stank of piss. Bring on the future!

I guarantee that whatever the RS supporters say, they are absolutely puking about the reality that we will be in a fantastic state-of-the-art stadium on the Mersey with our history lovingly embroidered into its fabric. We are leaving a lot of memories behind us at the Old Lady but it is really exciting to create a new story in BMD.

It will feel like we are sluming it when we have a derby game at Anfield. Take sterile wipes is my advice.

Steve B, perfect mate! I just hope I have the chance to travel back from Oz for one of the first few games as I'll be 74 -75 by then.

At least I'll be at the Man City game in September as long as EPL and TV don't fuck-up the timing again!

Anyone getting teary about Goodison, remember it's over 30 years since the good times were last seen at Goodison, and it was pretty shabby then. Forwards is the only way to go (look at Spurs). Fingers crossed in 5 years time Everton FC will be a different beast in every way.

Bill 360😂😂

They need to look at anything that will provide a home advantage. Make it an intimidating new stadium that opposition players won't like playing in.

Get the players to come out at the home end, backed by a blue wall of noise. Things like that will have a far bigger impact than looking at players through glass eating a prawn butty.

Somebody has probably already said this as I've not read all the comments, but I suppose we could be in for a few years of little or no transfer spending while this stadium is constructed, much like Spurs had to go through.

Maybe part of the reason for the restricted incomings so far this window...

Mark, I think it's more to do with every other club waiting for the next one to blink. Unfortunately new players won't be bedded in as we'd hope. We will be missing only one player from last season so maybe we can still hit the ground running.

Spurs developed a young squad over the 18 months they didn't buy, hopefully we've done the same. Although I'm sure I read that funding for Bramley-Moore Dock will be separate from transfer monies. Although if we sell Richarlison or Pickford in a couple years they may be worth close to 𧴜M each by then.

Very impressed, only problem I I can see is the 52,000 capacity, I would have thought it was possible to increase it to 60,000, only another 8,000 seats, but I am really impressed with what I see.

Mike #347 "A ferry docking point at Bramley Moore would be a dream come true!!"

And not just for ferries but also for my yacht. Though you'd still get the scallies - "can I mind yer yacht, mister?".

Does, any one know about the pitch size, I hope the pitch size is the same as we have at GP, as this is also key to the tempo of the stadium design.

In DM, we trust.

The RS colleagues at work have been stum so far, and that's not normal, let them build their meccano set up, if they wish, on our old ground.

Ian (368) alludes to making the most of home advantage; in my circle of Blues, we are all against an "away end" - stick away fans in the top corner out the way where they'll be sure to have a great view

Love it...

David #370 Gana and Zuma where two important players from last season.

I hop we manage to replace them both.

Steve 364 I am not comapring Anfiled. This will look nicer..theres will still be bigger so there are no comparisons either way.
89% of fans asked for a 60000 seater. Meis is now thanking fans for the interest and ideas they didnt listen to.
Said from day one the "you asked we listened" line was to make fans feel involved and the intimacy jargon was another smooth line.

Might aswell forget it though because like most things Everton, we will all realise when its too late.

At the same time you are well entitled to like what you see. All choices and opinions.

I'm not reading all the comments but we should all make use of the survey if you have anything you're not happy with. Definitely think it should be 60000 plus. Let the club know.

Looks stunning inside. I wish there was a translucent retractable roof that could come through inside the roof (from the one that's shown)... Nevermind. Will be a lot colder on the waterfront in the winter than at Goodison!

David # 379

Totally agree about making our thoughts known about the proposed capacity. There's a couple of spaces on the second Consultation Survey for comments so make full use of it with thought out reasons why you think 52,000 will be inadequate.

The club keep saying fans and 'interested parties' were consulted re capacity. I'm a fan, I've had a season ticket for decades and I'm a shareholder. I wasn't asked and I don't know anyone who was.

Love the design and my kids ( fans fir the future ) both loved the fly thru video and are genuinely excited about going there.

Whether we will get tickets or not I am not so sure. 52000 is not enough. It will sell out easily every game.

The design has exceeded expectations, the stadium design and it's location are iconic. It is simply stunning.

I think this fact will add immeasurably to the demand for season tickets and match day tickets. Away teams will sell out their allocations bar none.

I am not unhappy at all with things as they stand, but I think a 55k + capacity is realistic. More investigation should be done to see if this is feasible within the current design parameters.

It is possible that after the initial planning application is approved, a solid and fully researched case for 55k will then be put forward as an amendment.

I recommend people check out the more detailed info on the People's Project site, the club's official site on all things related to the stadium, at this link:

Link

Part 3, for example, shows the work being done behind the scenes about the transport question. Very informative.

A quick comment about comparisons with the attendance at Goodison in some championship winning years and projecting what capacity the new stadium should have based on those previous years. The reported attendance figures for a lot of those years when you could still stand were skewed by the long standing practice of the turnstile feller taking your money, sticking it in his pocket and not clicking the counter so under reporting attendance while still cramming us in until we were standing on each others toes. There were matches when the declared attendance was at least 10k under the number of those actually there.

If we are building towards success then we should look at what size of crowds success may bring rather than rooting capacity in what we think we need now when we are not successful. If we only stick an extra 13k seats in then match going fans may be looking at price increases of 20-30%.

Ray (385)in 1963 and 1970 fans were mostly paying with coins, if the turnstile operators were on the fiddle they must have needed a couple of mates and a van to take the hooky money home.

If you were to analyse the attendances even in the mid 80's there were some not so big attendances. That famous game against Coventry in 83. Football was a different world back then for all sorts of reasons not just on the back of hooliganism. At least I was at Goodison with 50,000 plus.

In the early 90's attendances dropped off massively an then started to grow later where they have been sustained and now we're sold out virtually all the time.

Always used to wait for the attendance to come up back when there was standing and it'd say 36000 it'd be be well more than that!

Brian #43

Spurs' new stadium cost nowhere near £1bn. A considerable amount of the cost was in the buying up of nearby housing and industrial units. It was a long, expensive, journey which took around 12 years from start to finish.

David 387 I remember the days everyone used to laugh at our attendance announcements. Some were shocking.

We will always have up and down attendances if we don't challenge or win things but when we did, Evertonians came back in numbers. And I know a few bandwagon blues I bet we all do.
Those that never seen a round of the cup but had a ticket for Wembley

How many did they say came out after the FA cup win v United in 95?
350 000 wasn't it? And we escaped relegation the same season.

Bill#388.
Sorry 𨀊m. I personally wouldn't say that's "nowhere near" a billion and reiterate what I said which was that it cost close to a billion. 85% of a billion is close enough in my book.

Bill, trawling through various webpages including the BBC, Telegraph, The Times etc, and avoiding the likes of the Star or the Sun, the cost varies from £850m and £1.2 billion. Should be some stadium for that money.
With a micro brewery and dedicated cheese and wine area nah! Not for me.

Jay#383 - thanks again for that link to The People's Project.

The survey results suggested that of the 8000 fans questioned on how they would get to the match, 55% said by public transport. Whatever way you look at it that is going to be a lot of people.

I am hoping that Alisdair Jones, our retired planning expert 😉 will be able to get to the site to give his assessment on the transport and access / egress questions. I will be very interested to see what he comes up with.

Ray

2 things.

1. How old are you ? If I can be so impertinent

2. BBC, Telegraph, The Times

Are those hacks architects?

Dermot. Over 70.

“Are those hack architects”. Are you?

Tell me, what are your qualifications? Regarding architecture?
How close are you to the corridors of power at THFC, that you can confirm or deny the estimated costs of Spurs new stadium as stated by journalists of the Times or Telegraph? Or the BBC?
The point I was making was that the sums I quoted were not from the comics but from more (usually) “thoughtful “ chip paper, compared to the Star or the Sun.
Maybe you're upset because I denigrated your favourite source of information!😁

Forgive my impertinence but I recently opened a fine Rioja 😊

Ray. Love your reply. I know as much about architecture as I know about astro physics.

But my point was that the journos are the same.

As for age.

Go back to an earlier post. This is for the next gen, we have had our time.

And I am close to 60 if it helps.

No fall out mate

Oh, and by the way Ray...the coincidence is I am just finishing the same!

“We've had our time?” Nooooooooo!!! Say it ain't so!

‘Ere, are you going to the Excelsior after the first home game?

You can buy my ale all night. And my missus.
No fall out at all!

I just think that some journos have some credibility and refrain from publishing down right lies!

with the current site restrictions plus I think they say we can't build any higher, even if someone come up with more money for us,with out the safe standing option and we wanted seats only, can anyone explain for me if they could fit another 10,000 seats into this wonderful design and location.

Ray; maybe we should just shuffle away into the mists of time.

I was intending to go to the Excelsior but after Demot's ageist comment I'm beginning to wonder if I'll be able to manage the walk up to Lime Street Station.

Just going for a lie down!

Bollocks Bill, I'll see you there! Bring your zimmer frame 😁

Billy it puzzles me why the design dosn't go up, like Goodison, IE the main stand. Meis appears to be unmovable on certain elements like double decker stands, bigger capacity (the term used a while back was 'size envy'). And so on. Looking at the design I can't see any reason why the East and West stands are not bigger. Akin to the main stand at Old Trafford.

Meis himself has designed American stadiums like this (check them https://meisstudio.com/) even some with retractable roofing.

David at 401 thanks for the information.

Bit worried about the closeness of the water without barricades. Know warri mean, like! So emotional we Evertonians! Too many might throw themselves overboard when we lose!!!

Bob(#403); I was wondering also if the capacity could be increased by having Fat & Thin sections for may be a couple of quid less given that these days everyone thinks that most seats aren't wide enough. It may even be seen as another H&S component.
Just off for another nap.

Bob #403, best wear the Speedo's for every home game, perhaps the concourse will include a swim wear shop?

Dermot #395, shattered my elusions - I at 58 years young was looking forward to the next era. Feeling old now. Oh well, perhaps someone will invent a flying Zimmer!

Brent #372, I don't think 50p would cut it though, more like £20 for a yacht.

Mike #347, would need a very big ferry or lots of them. There will be hundreds of rowing boats manned by scallies offering trips and site seeing tours. The lucky punters will get to go in Brent's yacht after it has been nicked.

Highly recommend the peoples project app that has a bunch of interior/exterior 360 visuals that differ from the released stills and the video. The exterior stuff looks incredible.

Stu #407, cheers for the info, yes some good stuff on the app

Can't find the app on Android. Anyone got a link to it?

Jon, have a look here
Link

or in the App Store search type The Peoples Project

Brent @ 411 thanks for the link, been trying for a while got the app now,very good as well.

Just been looking at all EFC's videos of the interior of the BMD, and I think they're playing games with us.

If we look towards the end of the Offical club video (on the link below), the shows the interior of the stadium with what can be seen as a uniform and bowl like 2 tiers all around.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1294098/everton-reveals-vision-for-new-waterfront-stadium

On the same page further down there's a picture of a 3 tier (main stand), 2 tier (Bullens) and a solid wall of seats for the Gwladys end.

The ground layout map seems to point to a uniform 2 tiers all around

I like the look of the 3 tier and wall like Glawdys street and would be happy to accept that layout considering we haven't got all the money in the world to spend, but if it was a uniform 2 tier all around I wouldn't be so happy.

What are we actually going to get?

Just downloaded the app on android for the internal and external views of the new ground, seems to be two tiers all round with the seats finishing at the same level of the upper tiers until it gets to the north elevation directly behind the goal,then there seems to be a drop down in the seat levels,any ideas why the seats don't follow through.

Billy # 415

I wonder why they've shown a 3 tier stand in one of the pictures?

Either way I wouldn't be happy with 2 tiers all round it's basically a square shaped bowl ( a contradiction but true).

Just a update on my last post I know our home end the south elevation is one single tier,were I put it down as two tiers.

Thanks Bill,

I like the general look of the stadium, but it's so important we get that layout inside correct, it's where the action happens (after all!).

Reading between the lines they used the word "Proposed", which means "subject to change" and that's why there's a lot of vagueness about it.

I hoping the go with a wall of seats for the Glawdys, 3 tiers for the main stand and a smaller away end.

I do not want to end up with the stadium of light, which is basically 2 tiers all around.

Rob@416 don't know if you have had a chance to see the 360 degree view app at the people's project site but it does give you a better view of things if you can get a look at it.

There appears to be a bit of artistic license and contradiction in some of the pics. Went to the roadshow thingy today. There is a view of the home end that shows a 3 tier mainstand next to it. But I can't see that on any of the plan/cross-sectional drawings. The wireframe structural drawings that feature in the video fly-thru also show just 2 or 3 king trusses holding the home-end roof up, the rendered CGIs seem to show half a dozen in a massively over-engineered space frame. Not sure which is right. Of course, at this stage there only needs to be a representation as it is supposed to be a work in progress.

At a recent presentation preview, the club stated that there were only 20 boxes or so, yet again there appears to be 2 walls of glass between tiers on this side alone. They could be large glass-fronted lounge areas.

If it helps, on the question about the apparent discrepancy between the CGIs and video, in the podcast interview Dan Meis did he mentions things are far, far from being final in the stadium design.

Specifically with regard to the apparent two-tier look in some images, he mentions that due to the steepness of the stands there will be a need to get those sitting in the upper half in the 'Gods' to their seats NOT from ground zero from within the stand, but via the surrounding concourses behind the stands. He says it will be possible to walk around the entire inner concourses to better be able to take in the outside views.

I agree Tom with the 3 tiers. Which looks better to be fair.

My opinion the BBC image and fly through
Link makes the ground look kind of average in height. Reminds me of the recently demolished redeveloped White Hart Lane! Link

They've basically dazzled us with some very glamorous images and said "this is how it might kind of be"?

They've shown us a picture of Scarlett Johansson, but we could end up with one of the Spice Girls! Marvellous!

I believe every image that has been shown has been shown for a purpose, just maybe if we don't say anything we get the 2 tiers all around and if we shout we get 3 tiers and a few bells and whistles?

The presentation was pretty much what I had expected. A neatly rendered version of the wireframe images we all saw previously. The redbrick facade being a monumental if slightly predictable nod to the site's heritage, and all in all quite smart and impressive. I haven't really commented much since because I wanted some time to absorb those images and look at the supporting consultation information too.

I still have some slight reservations, and here's what I posted in the comments section as a result:

Capacity: had hoped for mid-50's capacity. Would have liked to see an image depicting how an increased seated capacity to 60k would look. Not sure how 62k can ever be achieved by safe standing alone. Even at 2:1 ratios.

Think some of the CGIs are slightly deceptive and contradict the cross sections. One image shows a 3 tier mainstand, yet the initial cross sections do not appear to show any 3 tiered stands. (Unless I've missed them). If the 3 tier stand is correct there appears to be 2 glass walled frontages between tiers. We have been told that there are only 20 exec boxes, so what are these glass walls for? Lounges? Is this not a missed opportunity or does the club believe it can only fill 20 boxes? Would they not make great hotel suites for year round usage at this site?

The initial wireframe drawing showing the roof structure also appears to show far fewer king trusses at the home end roof than the corresponding CGI image. Minor detail I know, plus I realise that these images are only a representation of a work in progress, but it can cast some doubt on the authenticity/accuracy of that representation.

Not yet convinced that an East-West orientation wouldn't have been a better utilisation of the space available, or that a massive cost saving could be achieved by lowering the pitch into the dock basin slightly. Thus allowing the Quayside walls to remain exposed as a feature, and for fans to enter the stadium at its first floor reducing cost of vertical transport, and addressing height restrictions too.

The home end looks great, and the externals too. Not clear how the home end splits into an upper/lower section of different rake angles to allow safe-standing in the lower section, and for the upper section to then rise to the same height as the side stands. (Both upper and lower currently look at the same rake).

To be multi-functional, I had hoped for a closing or permanent full roof. The close proximity to the pitch plus the high roof will mean that a lot of the lower rows will be overly exposed to rain. Nothing worse than sitting in the rain.

Transport: seems a bit weak at present. Needs a station at Vauxhall. The connection with the city centre needs to be far more pronounced than a few shuttle buses if we're really going to get sufficient numbers out of their cars. Will probably need a proportion of all city centre bus services redirected or extended to BMD, and/or a dedicated mass rapid transit system how they access the site needs to be modelled, as the dock road itself will probably be swamped by pedestrians for several hundred metres and Great Howard Street will come under a lot of pressure too. The Northern line then creates a barrier for west-east pedestrian and vehicular permeation. blocking walking routes to some of the areas covered by walking distance diagrams.

Most are only fairly minor reservations/observations tbh, but their cumulative effects may be not so trivial.

Tom # 424

Hello Tom,

For me, it's absolutely vital we get the atmosphere inside right above all else.

The stadium from the outside as far as I'm concerned has to be presentable and nothing more, I would like to know how much went (after being bullied by Unesco and the Council) from the overall budget into making it shine on the outside that could of gone on the fan experience inside?

If the stadium has the right atmosphere inside I will forgive things like transport links and all the other nice to have things that aren't as good as they can be and I think most other fans will also feel this way if they can be a part of that winning atmosphere.

Rob,

I agree that the atmospheric qualities have to be right. On that score, they're pinning a lot of their hopes on the large single tier home end, or blue wall. A tried and tested method of massing large numbers under one roof, that may still need careful consideration of roof geometry to maximise its effectiveness.

Personally I think I'd prefer 2 home ends, as we have now, but on a grander scale like say St James's Park before its extension. 2 large wrap around single tier end stands, or one large double-decker, and one single tier? Perhaps One with safe standing, one all-seater to reflect a slightly different character and demographic, as at present.

I also agree that, the internal form and proportions are generally far more important than the exterior when measuring a stadium's quality as both a viewing and atmospheric platform. The exterior plays little or no part in those key functions.

The logistics have to work too though. After all, the atmosphere won't be great if people stay away because they can't get in, out and away without too much congestion, inconvenience or delays.

Tom,

I'm kind of hoping while over hear Dan Meis finds him self lost and ends up in London outside Spurs new home and decides while here to a quick look inside, he'll then be thinking along the same lines as myself.

It doesn't have to as spectacular as theirs, but along those lines will do nicely for me.

Rob,
I thought he'd said he was at NWHL for our game at the end of last season. If not I'm sure he'll be very familiar with it. Perhaps you could give him a reminder as feedback in the consultation survey.

Rob & Tom, I found the plan view of the stadium layout very useful in helping me understand the seating and stand configuration. If you scroll down the page you will find it here:

Link

To the right of the site plan it also show three openings in the dock wall that are to provided access and egress to and from the site.

I found it also helped me gain an understanding of why the layout is North to South and the restraints that Dan Meis has to overcome due to the width of the site.

I came across another document, which no doubt Dan Meis would have used as a guideline when designing our new stadium. It is quite large document but worth a read for all involved in the consultative meetings

Link

On page 46 ( a good place to start if you want to cut to the chase) it also recommends that the stadium is laid out North to South.

For me the main issue remains public transport.

Ignoring my major gripe that the capacity is too low, my qualms are to do with the prospective atmosphere. I'm struggling to see how certain aspects are supposedly conducive to generating noise. In particular the roofing appears to be way above the crowd. Also there seems to be an inordinate number of gangways and exits, guaranteed to hinder the transmission of noise. I hope the detail shown so far is likely to be somewhat different from what will ultimately transpire.
The pictures and animations certainly have impact - but I still prefer Tom Hughes's images on a re-engineered GP.

The venue for such a momentous declaration of intent is a minor concern. The Titanic bar. Never mind, nirvana awaits.

Steve #430,

Thanks, but most of the stuff that I have ever posted is pretty old now and rooted in studies I did over 20yrs ago. The financial backdrop to it being far less ambitious in scope than BMD.

That said, I think it would be a decent exercise to show what say 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 the outlay might achieve at a redeveloped GP. I'm quite certain 55-60k would be far more readily achieved. but somehow, I doubt you'll ever see those CGIs haha.

Don't really understand the symmetric stuff but I've just been and had a look at the 360 degree pictures in town, and have to say that it seems to be a very tight fit from the inside, which should definitely help create a better atmosphere.

It looks brilliant, with the seats right on-top of the pitch, and with no real spaces anywhere, I reckon it's going to be even more intimidating than Goodison Pk, which is surely what we're all hoping for?

Laurie @ 392 et al; Tom @ 424 et al; Rob @425 et al

Some excellent points gents that will help me on my way to compiling my thoughts on this project.

I am aiming to visit the presentation/exhibition on 13th of August with another of our TW correspondents, John Hoggarth; he of the ferry ideas. We are also aiming to go to Sandhills station and walk to the site to get an impression of the route to the stadium and the surrounds. In that regard Toms comments are helpful and provide food for thought. At this stage in the planning process it is often the case that transport details are patchy. One of my biggest gripes about the planning system as it is currently operated.

Laurie. Can't believe you read all 162 pages of UEFA'S Stadium Guide. But thanks for directing us to the relevant bit.

Meant to say that at 750mm treads, I would also be surprised if the safestanding ratio would be higher than say 1.5:1 (if indeed greater than 1:1 ever got through legislation). Of course the knock on effect of that would then be that 20,000 seats would need to be allocated safestanding rail seats to ever create another 10k capacity, ie in total almost half the stadium would be standing in a 62k configuration. Not sure that scenario holds much water unless the club has put out some feelers, and they're getting positive feedback on it.

Alasdair #434,

After the presentation at the Titanic I did the walk into town. I had hoped to do the sandhills walk beforehand, but left it too late. Tbh, I'd done the dock road walk a few times as the shareholders association used to hold their meetings in the Bramley Moore pub, so knew it was a bit of a trek. It is difficult to judge and be objective beyond saying it took me just over half an hr to get to Liverpool 1 bus station at my normal walking pace. (I'm not a particularly fast walker)

That in itself doesn't sound a lot, but in terms of access/dispersal and general convenience it's certainly not ideal. The saving grace is both merseyrail and the relative proximity to the city centre, hopefully allowing a continuous high capacity shuttle bus service. The club have not given any indication about how many buses would be made available or would be needed. This will also be dependent on how the few traffic lanes feeding the site can cope. When I arrived at the Titanic, Grt Howard St was crawling along, even without a stadium. Admittedly it was rush hr, with some traffic works, but it was evident that this will need some serious work. Hopefully the whole Liverpool waters scheme will demand its own dedicated MRT system along thd waterfront to feed town and perhaps Sandhills too. In the past trams and monorails have been mentioned fof that purpose, but not sure if that will be in place before 2023 (if ever). Car parking is another issue.

I walked from New Brighton towards Seacombe the other day Alisdair, and personally think that these views across the river, best show both the distance towards town, and the scope of this massive regeneration.

I said on another thread that I think the ferry's will come back into use, and when you walk on this route, then it seems a very obvious solution.

I was thinking about parking and sailing, but I'm not sure where the land is on the other side, to make such a huge car-park, although the M53, is right on the plot, once you get over the other side of the river.

The ferry was £11 as well, so make that a score once you've parked your car, and I don't think it's going to come cheap?

Tom #436 - I walked to the Titanic from Sandhills. 20 minutes easy walk and I'm an old codger. So call it 15 to BMD from Sandhills? All flat.

Tom, people in high places sometimes make the most ridiculous decisions and it's been proposed by our own city council to make the whole of the strand, just two lanes in each direction?

More bike-lanes and getting people walking, sounds great, but this road links the north to the south of the city, and just doesn't make sense to me, especially now we are also putting a 52/60,000 stadium onto the waterfront and just over one mile away.

I like the Bike lanes idea.

Ride up from any of the transport hubs to the ground.

Bill's Bikes?

Blue and White Tuk Tuks ?

Automated smart electric taxi pods running up and down there in 5-10 years time.

A fantastic design, but the only thing I would change, and I think it should change is the Everton lettering on the stadium, it should be blue rather white, it will stand out and been seen much further in the distance.

Alisdair # 434 - missed your post with all the transfer excitement! Confession I skimmed through most of the EUFA document.

I am looking forward to seeing your comments after you and Tom do your survey.

In my experience corporate types love a slideshow so I knocked something up that you may find useful.

I ran it past Lyndon who has given the reference to ToffeeWeb the OK.

Link

Feel free to use, not use, or alter as you wish.

Back to the window!