Tosun: Everybody is so sad for Gomes

He was first on the scene with Gomes looking after him and rather than being upset/disturbed by what he witnessed it fired him up and he got the goal.

You were a credit to the blue shirt today mate.

Pretending to be injured all the time and then being absolutely fine 2 minutes later is really starting to grate on me.

My thoughts are obviously with Gomes - I wish he makes a full recovery, but I also hope that Richarlison stops his childish and stupid behaviour.

Poor Andre and poor us. We look so much better with him in the team.

He needs to do some hold up play coaching with big Dunc only big dunc should be armed with knuckle dusters and a helmet.

I hope Richarlison is dropped for a game to teach him a lesson. We must have spent over 5 minutes playing with 10 men today because he was rolling around with nothing wrong with him.

The irony is, a couple of weeks ago, Sidibe got clattered and was on the floor off the pitch injured. At which point, Richarlison went over to him and told him to get up! He then dragged him back onto the pitch to defend the corner!

His play acting is starting to affect the team getting decisions now in my opinion. It has to be stopped.

We can't play ourselves into form with fingers crosses. Get the attitude right. Last chance Silva.

As for Richarlison, I'm starting to get fed up with him, all he does is dive and fall over. Yes, there are sometimes when it's genuine, but like others have said, “he is the boy who cries wolf”. Shameful.

Pickford
Sidibe Mina Holgate Digne
Davies Delph
????
Walcott ???? ????

Who plays striker? Since it's clear it won't be Kean (despite having literally nothing to lose at this point), is it Calvert-Lewin? Does Sigurdsson come back in, thinking maybe Davies can make up for his lack of pace? Where does Iwobi play, considering he's far more effective in the middle than wide left?

And where does that leave our bench? Probably no better time to see what Gordon can do. People want Gibson but over Mina or Holgate? I dunno anymore.

Honestly I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Glad to see Tosun getting some love. Whatever his limitations, by all accounts he's been an exemplary teammate and you can tell how badly he wants to make a positive impact every time he comes onto the pitch.

Such a horrible thing to witness but you'd hope having seen Gomes injury it'll jolt him into growing up a bit and cutting out the nonsense. He could also do with having a good look at how Tosun conducts himself as he must be immensely frustrated. Whatever anyone thinks of him his attitude is first class and has my full respect.

Best wishes and a swift recovery Andre. Couldn't have happened to bigger heart.

On a slightly different thread - Richarlison and his persistent diving or injury feigning.
Does anybody in Everton or Brazilian management or coaching ever speak to this guy about it?

I find it embarrassing and have always detested others doing it (including Ronaldo and Suarez mainly) as it is an awful form of cheating that the FA seem to have only punished one man for (Niasse) - nobody since...

I feel almost certain that Richie will be the next one the FA charge and ban - and rightly so.

Silva, or whoever, take him aside and tell him to fucking grow up and STOP the play acting and diving NOW

No doubt he will have the best medical treatment available but he is going to need a lot more than that to get over this. He will need all the support we can give him.

Dreadful business all round.

And it was, for me, without question, an absolute "shithouse" thing to do, as you would say.

Now, I understand that particular phrase carries some weight with Scousers culturally. I'd like to be very clear, I'm using the word "shithouse" explicitly and with purpose.

To say Son "isn't that type of player" ignores the facts. To say, "it wasn't the contact with Son that broke Andres' leg" borders on ridiculous.

Son was pissed off at the accidental arm to the face he took. When the opportunity presented itself, he chased Andre down, and put in a disgusting tackle from behind with absolutely zero chance of winning the ball. Zero. And he knew it. It was premeditated and executed with malice. It was a tackle meant to injure. Shithouse.

For those saying, "it wasn't the contact with Son that broke Andres leg"? Let me ask you a rhetorical question.

If Son doesn't put that tackle in, the premeditated one meant to injure our player and arguably best midfielder, does Gomes finish the game and walk off the pitch? You bet he does.

I don't think I've ever been so "gobsmacked" or frankly disgusted by my fellow TWers than I have over this instance.

One of our own is felled like an axe through a tree, with premeditation and malice, intending to injure, and some come on to quickly excuse the behavior of this wickedness? You're joking, right?

His leg was snapped in half and ankle turned 45 degrees due strictly one only to this evil, foul, premeditated, violent, from-behind, disgusting challenge.

Shithouse. Only one way to see this for me.

If Son played hockey, he'd never, ever play another game for the rest of his career against Everton without getting the absolute shit kicked out of him.

I swear to God I'd pull a Roy Keane on him. Without reservation I'd do it.

Shit-fucking-house.

And that's my opinion on the matter, actually intentionally waiting 24 hours to cool down on the matter.

The above is selfish of course, focusing on Everton's current loss. But above all, just as this player seems to have found a home where he's appreciated (even adored by many) after his travails at Barca, this happens to him. We can only pray, primarily for his sake but also for Everton's, that he can come back from this and be the same player.

Regarding Richarlison, I too don't like his diving. Diving is helping ruin the game. But what I will also say is that he is often a prime target from dirty players, who will quite readily hack him down. It happened so much last season, including in the Spurs match away. That dirty play went largely unpunished. But the only way he can deal with this is to stop diving, otherwise the dirty tactics against him are more likely to continue going unpunished. He needs more discipline.

As for Richarlison, he is quite simply an idiot and I can't stand him at the moment, I hope he cuts it out before he gets some serious treatment from the crowd. He might have won a few fouls were it not for his play acting (or downright cheating to be honest), he spent more time on the floor than the ball...

Continuously going down is only playing into the opposition's hands, and is also costing us key decisions most weeks.

He hasn't cried Wolfe yet though, he's just getting on everyone's nerves, especially when you see a player get a real serious injury, an injury that makes it impossible for a player to move, and I just hope Gomes, can make a full and complete recovery, and hope his young team-mate, can learn something positive in this very unfortunate process, which has sickened everyone.

I can understand the diving, trying to con the ref to get an advantage. I don't like it, but I can understand it. What I cannot understand is the playacting, the rolling around, and all this whilst the game is still going on and we have just a minute or two to win the game. The moment has passed. The free kick or penalty has gone, it will not be given. Get up and get on with it.

Andy Johnson was a diver. But down he went and up he got. He also "won" far more penalties than Richarlison. I just cannot understand what's in his mind. I can understand it's a "culture thing" if he goes down initially. That perhaps he does it without thinking, because that's "just how it is" in Brazil. I don't know how true that is, but people have said it in the past. But if you do go down without thinking, when you are rolling around for a good minute, you have plenty of time to think, get up and get on with it. You're fooling no one and harming your team who now have 10 men.

Sad indictment of football today that Tottenham look likely to appeal the red card. It's days like these that make you reflect what a horrible 'sport' this has become.

I might be wrong, Jamie, because I haven't really watched it properly since, but I'm pretty certain this type of tackle goes on every week, where one player is a little bit too quick or clever for his opponent, and I honestly feel that some of these very fast pitches are now also bordering on dangerous.

Maybe you are right, maybe a player shouldn't stretch for the ball once his opponent has gone past him, but I left Goodison yesterday with a feeling that the game “I knew and loved” has changed completely and it left me feeling nearly as sad as I felt for Gomes, and I felt absolutely terrible for him yesterday.

It's easy to understand why he never got the decisions that he should have got yesterday, because he has become a little cheating diving bastard, and nobody likes a cheat.

Legally, I imagine you'd be charged with assault, mate 2 with manslaughter, while some would try to charge mate 3 as a serial killer.

However, Dermot Gallagher was arguing on Sky that as opposed to general UK law, football law is concerned only with what you did and not the outcome. So from his perspective, a foul of this type is a yellow even if it sets in sequence a series of events that cripple a man.

As a former referee myself (lower level) that's something that there seems to be a lot of disagreement about among refs. Generally, most refs I know seem to factor the outcome of the foul into the decision.

I am unclear if what Gallagher says is fact, but I suspect it's one of these many grey areas where, in different parts of the worlds and leagues, people develop their own hard and fast understanding of rules that are perhaps deliberately ambiguous.

It also is interesting if you consider the lawsuit between Paul Elliot and Dean Saunders. The latter wasn't particularly chastised within the football arena but legally Elliot had a strong enough case to take him to court for causing injuries that ended his career.

Tony, agree with what you said about Richarlison. I think he might be our best player. More so without Gomes, and with Sigurdsson's form going off a cliff with the goals drying up. It is infuriating to all blues to see him lying on the ground faking injury, whether he was fouled or not, when the game is going on around him. The blues need him right now, and the fans are losing their patience with him.

I won't change my opinion of the perfect storm nature of the event as it unfolded. I watched it 2 more times because clearly I have a morbid curiosity about this. The play took less than 3 seconds total. The catalyst leading up to the play, was Gomes dispossessing someone (couldn't see who), and immediately turning to move the ball up field. This happened maybe 5-6 yds from the center line. So both Son, and Gomes, immediately changed direction by 180 degrees, Gomes was faster, Son flicked his foot out, 100% clearly to make the professional foul we've seen countless times before. There wasn't a “wind up” there wasn't any force behind it, his foot was angled to connect with his laces not his spikes, and so forth. Had any of those things happened, Gomes would have gone down instantly clutching his knee or ankle or whatever (the contact was roughly midway up his calf).

Instead Gomes, staggering yes, took 2 steps forward and I'm guessing saw Aurier coming in out of the corner of his eye to make the 2nd tackle, planted his leg to avoid it, his cleats stuck, and well, we know how it ended.

I'm not disputing the intent to FOUL. Nor that it should have been a red card. Even that it set off the chain reaction of the play (though did it? Several things happened right before Son's lunge in rapid fashion too, but that destroys the narrative of considered). I said this in the other thread that I'm sure was equally ignored, that it's not about sympathy or feeling sorry for Son; it is, to perhaps only me, empathy for another player who made a bad call in the span of say, 15 seconds, that ultimately led to the worst possible outcome.

I'm sure now everyone will hate me or think I'm a douche whatever. Sorry for being the voice of reason here.

Interesting point. By the time I started watching football in the mid-80s Maradona was a notorious diver. He pretty much invented the rolling on the ground routine. I hated him for that and the handball. But I saw a documentary on Eurosport about his life and in his early days in South America and Europe, people were routinely launching two-footed lunges at him and nothing was given as he tried to soldier on. He said he became a diver as a self protection measure.

Now with Richarlison, I feel like he acts like a spoilt brat, but there is some validity to your point.

It was all the things you describe... except that.

I don't know. I think we've seen how people take advantage of goodwill when teams typically kick the ball out of play if there is an "injury." Any time a home player goes down, the whole stadium and coach are screaming at the ref to stop play.

You gotta stop with the why was Son there, or the laying in wait bits. Simply not true. If you dare, go watch a real-time replay on YouTube. Not a single thing about the play looked out of sorts until we realized the severity of the outcome.

Also, Spurs play a VERY fluid front 3. They can be anywhere on the pitch, at any time. The position of the ball dictates it.

The Premier League have confirmed that's the sanction which was applied, albeit circuitously. I do not think you can appeal a red card on that basis.

Son will get a standard ban, no more, no less – however emotive the result of the challenge was. Let me be clear, it's the action that's gets you a red card not the outcome. Had Gomes walked away as healthy a lop, it is still a red.

To add some objectivity here, both Schniederlin (v Man City) and Holgate (v Brighton) should have received red cards for similarly reckless challenges.

If you add everything into the mix, we feel like a powder keg ready to explode. The silence from the club on all matters; Silva, VAR etc. is symptomatic of a club without a leader.

A rare public disagreement with my fellow countrymen.

It was, undoubtedly, an attempt to injure.

Son's intent, for me, was retribution for the knock to the face.

If you look at the still pictures, his foot is at a 90 degree angle, studs up, when putting in the challenge. A professional foul is always committed studs down. His studs were, again, perpendicular to the ground. There's actually a pic showing this on TW.

We can argue all day long whether it was a "flick" challenge or whether or not there was malice in the execution. Despite direct evidence through pics showing studs up, I will now state the damning evidence that clearly shows there was intent to injure.

The position of the ball.

If Son had grown a third leg, attached to his extended, studs up leg, to make that tackle, he still wouldn't have been able to make contact with the ball. There was zero - zero - attempt to play the ball. He was looking to wipe a man out. Anyone playing the game understands there's a time to take a man down a la the "professional foul".

That challenge should always be executed with your foot on the ground, studs down, with at least a chance to play the ball.

There was none of that.

How you define that, based on the above, as a tackle without intent to injure and without malice is beyond me.

Mark you say:

Not a single thing about the play looked out of sorts until we realized the severity of the outcome.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement. When the tackle was put in, I literally jumped off my seat and screamed at the television, "THAT'S A FUCKING RED CARD!" There is zero question, in my mind, that nothing looked out of sorts with that play or tackle.

To the contrary, everything single thing looked out of sorts with that run of play and the events that unfolded. It was malicious.

You can indeed ascertain what was in Son's mind by the way he chased down Gomes, had no chance of playing the ball, and went studs up.

I disagree.

Hockey reference, forgive.

Slashing happens in hockey. For those who don't know, slashing is when a player whacks an opposing player their stick, in an attempt to lodge possession of the puck from the player.

There's an art to it.

Everyone who's ever played the game of hockey knows, beyond explanation, a slash and receiving a slash, is perfectly acceptable if the player doing the slashing executes the slash with the flat part of his stick.

You never, ever lead with the tip of the stick.

Why? Because leading with the tip of the stick can result in serious injury.

It's the exact same thing in football with tackles, just a different sport and implement.

When you put in a hard challenge, or commit a professional foul, you always do it within reach of the ball and with your foot down.

Son slashed with the tip of his stick, in soccer terms. It was disgusting, done with malice, and I'm stunned beyond words that people are forgiving and excusing his actions.

Gomes sounds like he's had a good operation and can start the long road to recovery. Hopefully he can be up and running by spring. I hope we ease him back in though. I'd rather a 100% Gomes for pre-season than a below par Gomes who can't overcome the injury issue by spring.

Regarding this and only this statement:

“If you look at the still pictures, his foot is at a 90 degree angle, studs up, when putting in the challenge. A professional foul is always committed studs down. His studs were, again, perpendicular to the ground. There's actually a pic showing this on TW.”

Don't look at the stills, watch the live video. The still is taken from a direct, head-on angle where Son's leg comes up, spikes first, AFTER the foul had already been committed (Think sliding into a base). The force which he hit Gomes leg with, well I wasn't on the receiving end so I don't know, but it 100% was not spikes first. If you saw a still from a side angle, you'd see what I mean but I can't find one.

I'm not saying his foot wasn't in the air, because it was. Just not angled for spikes to meet calf. I suppose it could be argued that any dangerous/cynical/whatever word you want to use tackle carries with it an intent to injure, but you'd need to be consistent in how you feel about the player making said tackle. As John said, we've been guilty of it too.

Oh wait missed the last part; I agreed that it was a red card! I've said so at least half-a-dozen times, as well as stating tackles like this are exactly why red cards exist.

Ok back to my miserable Monday.

But maybe Son was distraught because of the reasons you describe, and the realisation that, once it's done, it's done, had just hit right home?

Did you see the Bournemouth red card? Same situation. Revenge tackle by Son after getting up off the floor. He's got a nasty streak in him.

I've seen the replay, watched live, and seen the stills.

My opinion won't change.

Come south and I'll take you to the range to shoot.

Cheers.

That ^^

Jamie, HUGE hockey fan, pretty solid analogy. That said, there's a difference between a 2:00 penalty, a 5:00 penalty, and a 10:00 game misconduct. Only in the rarest of instances does the punishment result in any form of game ban. It happens literally less than 5-6 times per season, all teams, all games.

So they do have staggered or escalated punishments based on severity of outcome (not intent, as is in football). A violent, malicious slash to the wrist is a 5:00 major, nothing else.

To the gallows!

Players don't give a fuck about 2, 5, or 10.

Using the analogy, if you slash with the tip of your stick, gloves are dropping, and you're about to take a beating.

Because the guy on the receiving end of that slash knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you just tried to impale him.

Son tried to hurt Gomes. There's no question in my mind.

Cheers to all.

Jamie, that would be awesome! Enforcers, dropping the... cleats? Let ‘em settle it mano-y-mano. May add a bit to injury time though :-P

Jamie - you can ‘think' you know what's in Son's head but cannot definitively know. You can only take the action and go from there. I do understand the point though.

I think to say you can't know what was in his mind is disingenuous.

We all have a brain. We all use it. To say you can't ascertain what happens inside a human brain and the thought process therein, especially when presented with video and pictures of the event, would be to deny that you have a brain capable of thought at all, that we all undergo and have.

Anyone who's ever played a sport at any level, knows what I'm talking about. Dark thoughts of breaking someone's bones, pounding them in the face, impaling them on a spike, etc. We've all had them. It happens in the heat of competition.

What separates us from animals, is we don't act on those thoughts.

I promise you Son had those thoughts. I don't think he did, I know he did.

And yes, he is an animal, who couldn't keep his emotions and dark side in check.

Now I really will STFU.

Jamie, I pretty much have those thoughts in traffic every single day, lol.

But my verdict won't change.

You have him coming on against Lincoln and heading the ball back to a fellow player to score, warming up in games he's the first to race over when a player scores and heads towards the Gwladys Street to celebrate with them.

The setting up Richarlison for his goal against Watford in the cup.

His awareness to get into the box and knowing if he can't score, his quick thinking will square it to a fellow player.

Then not only do you have the guy cradling Gomes, he then goes over to try and console Son, then goes out of his way to try and get that goal. Not just for us, but for Gomes as well.

We need to give this guy an extended run in the team and not just odd games here and there.

This is a player who gets what Everton are all about, always liked the guy, but after the last few weeks, I hope he gets a more regular run out, perfect gentleman and a passion for Everton Football Club.

I hope this can change his fortunes at the club as most of us on here are quick enough to slag off mercenaries but perhaps not quick enough to praise pros who get their head down and work hard!

One swallow doesn't make a summer but the next time I'm at a game (hopefully Norwich) I for one will be cheering that bit louder for Cenk and showing that little bit more patience with him!

Thank you Cenk for representing the club so well yesterday and get well soon Gomes!!

Right now we need warriors. We are too nice and too lightweight. Let's give him a go and see what he can do. He tends to be streaky, so maybe he can get a few. That could get us to safety of mid table and then we can try to salvage the season.

The refereeing was as bad as anything I have seen and to compound things 5 other goons are watching from 200 miles away making a right bollocks of the whole game.

The TV are loving it, it's only a matter of time before adverts are played inbetween decisions whilst the mugs who go to the game get kept in the dark.

The PC empathy towards Son is confusing me. He set out to deliberately foul Gomes. The lad breaks his ankle and he acts shocked, his deliberate actions caused it. A modern shithouse tackle without repercussions most of the time.

Richarlison is our best player and because he makes a nice gesture (and is probably a nice sort) we want to replace Richarlison with him.

The mind boggles.

End of rant.

To be honest, he is close to Gomes so scoring that goal meant so much to him, bit hard expecting him to just pick the ball out of the net and trot back to the centre circle.

He has never had a run of games under Silva, no use playing the guy one game then benching him, give the guy regular game time and let's see what he can do.

Calvert-Lewin has played nearly every game over the past few seasons, give Tosun half that and I would be happy, just as long as we give the guy an extended run.

Tosun had a run of games and it was as if he had lead in his boots.

When the red mist is up you do stupid things, you don't think of the consequences, you just lash out. But, if you do exact revenge, it doesn't matter if you only meant to trip someone or bash them - you are responsible for whatever happens.

You have a duty of care, just like out on the street or in your home if someone tries to rob you. If I smash a burglar with a sledgehammer I can expect to go down, but if I punch him on the nose, I expect a pat on the back.

Son, in my opinion, deserves at least a 3 match ban and the fact that his boss is appealing the ban, for me is disgraceful, just like Sanchez trying to trip Richarlison after the said incident.

Tosun seems to have that same instinct in front of goal.

If we were bombing from defence to attack then yes Tosun would struggle, but the way we build up slower will give Tosun time to get into position, not ideal I know, but for the time being it is a perfect combination to suit our needs.