Premier League moves resumption target back

'Premier League matches won't resume until 30th April at the earliest as the country continues to deal with the Covid-19 pandemic.'

Would that be April 2020 or 2021?

So Italy had their first cases on Feb 21st and a month later, they've 35K and imposed more lock down initiatives.

UK has now over 2.5K and escalating; would be surprised if we were anything like back to normality at the end of April.

There's people dying and elderly folk locked up in their own homes. Football doesn't matter right now.

So the rs are going to win the league, no matter how long it takes.

If the EPL is back before the end of May, I will be surprised - unless its behind closed doors.

Sorry, but I think this is disgusting. It quite clear, from the FA, Premier League and now the clubs that all they care about is the money.

I understand there are non-wealthy people working for associations, clubs etc, but that's no different to other companies being effected by this virus.

Clubs, the FA and the Premier League should abandon this season. It's done, and there's more important things to worry about.

I will seriously stop watching and paying for football services if they persist in placing money over the welfare of people. It's thoroughly disgusting, and an event like this has shown the powers that be their true colours for the world to see...

WW6 - (no pun intended)

Totally agree with your comments I feel exactly he same.

Oscar Wilde called it:

People who Know the price of everything and the value of nothing

PM this evening saying we can turn the tide in 12 weeks. That seems to rule out any resumption of football before late June, at the earliest, and realistically much later than that.

I expected this although there is next to no chance of games restarting in early May. Writing the season off was never on the cards. This is a decision taken not only by the Premier League but also by the Football League. Extending the season indefinitely is designed to protect the integrity of the competitions.

For the Football League and National League clubs most of them are struggling to pay their bills and pay their staff. Indeed one or two have already issued redundancy warning notices to their staff. For them the challenge is not about making money but staying afloat.

Off topic - but for anyone who hasn't noticed; the club are practically giving away the 3rd kit (nicest one in a long time) on the OS for 17 Quid.

I understand the desire to complete this season but, if by doing so, it impacts next season, where will it leave season ticket holders who have renewed or are about to renew? I think this season should be written off. It's perfectly clear that it won't be possible to re-start this season at the beginning of May.

Ray#13
Ray, having renewed today I'd suggest that season ticket holders will simply attend the games in the new season whenever it may start. That may not be in August but that doesn't really make a difference. A new season WILL occur and we'd just use our tickets as we have done in previous seasons I reckon, albeit maybe after a late start.

I renewed mine yesterday too, Brian. Like you, I'd attend any time next season starts but say it has to be abridged to accommodate the current season completing? Why screw up two successive seasons?

My thoughts exactly mate. Write this one off and then there's only one season affected. Simply start the next one as and when it can be started and make ammendments, if there are any required, as the season progresses. Two games a week for a period, drop a cup competition, things like that. I think the apparent strong desire to complete this season is being fuelled by money and money alone!

Even is it was planned for April players will not be match fit, may still be in isolation, not have had proper treatment for injuries, etc etc. Never going to happen and who the feck gives a feck at the minute!

Season has to be scrapped. There are far more important things to worry about. The FA won't be happy till Liverpool win the league.

The earliest resumption date is 30th April. It could be weeks after that. In our case, our next scheduled game is Villa at home on 22nd May, a whopping 55 days since our last one at Chelsea. Hopefully teams will be back in training well before 30th April, but if they're not then the season must be ended come the end of April. As I said the other day, clubs don't get this long a break in the summer and pre season training is usually about six weeks. I know players by now are probably at the peak of their fitness, and will have training programmes given to them by the club, but match fitness will be a major factor in all this, and all players at every club will be lacking massively in match fitness. As I said, they just can't turn up at the drop of a hat and play. It's not like turning a tap off for a few weeks, then suddenly turning it back on.

End of April, or abandon the season.

FFS, that should be 2nd May, not 22nd.

I've only just read that the FA intend to extend the season indefinitely in order to complete it, so it appears the decision (as far as the FA is concerned) has been made already.

The Season is due to get screwed up in due course for the 2022 World Cup Finals, so I'd hope they're looking that far ahead in their plans. Arguably, it wouldn't matter if this season didn't finish until the Autumn & then the next 2 seasons ran largely in line with the calendar year. At least it would then make it easy to accommodate the aforementioned World Cup Finals.

Dennis (22) I am sure the 2022 World Cup is in the back of the football authorities' minds. The start and end dates of season 2022/23 will need to be altered to accommodate that so the Coronavirus presents an opportunity to do so a year or two earlier than originally envisaged. There is no certainty our next season will be able to start in August or September.

Not too sure this season will be finished, given the time scale, Had Liverpool already won the league, my guess is they would have stopped this season, used the placings as final standings, had no relegation and promoted both Leeds and West Brom.

Sport should take a backward step and put people's lives first and foremost, but until Liverpool get those two wins, they are hellbent on making damn sure they get the title.

Even if we have to wait to June.

Do not be suprised if they try to restart around May. Once Liverpool have those couple of games in the bag, then that will be fine for the f a, season can be stopped again if needed.

In the meantime we'll being of people will be put at risk, just to ensure they can crown them Champions.

Brian
if those idiots gave the RS the league, as they seem hellbent on doing. they open a whole can of worms further down the leagues.
Some, even on here, would give them the league they haven't actually won.
Who will we give the other leagues too?
Even if we give Leeds and West Brom promotion I'm sure teams like Fulham would go ape.
Regarding Leagues one and two plus the national league they are even more open.

Mind you in the eyes of the bosses are there any other teams that matter apart from our neighbours?

The Shite will win the league but it should come with an asterisk! Only fair I think given the disruption. I can't wait for 30 years from now when a grandchild asks his red shite supporting grandad "Grandad tell me about 2020 and when Liverpool LAST won the league". Grandad tells him, "that team was the best in history son and starts dribbling rubbish", to which the young kid says "What does the asterisk mean Grandad?" :-P

We all know that football and sport in general is not important during times like this. Bot there is also the feelgood factor it generates.The Premier league can withstand this hit. Its the lower league's like all small business's that are in trouble and need to be generating income as soon as it is safe to do so. Cancelling Cup competitions will only hit them harder. With the next World Cup being played in the winter all Europe's leagues could be gearing up for that now. Finish this season by the end of November this year, and start the new season in late January. If time permits, when football resumes, the league cup could overlap both seasons, with two legs and seeded teams for the early rounds with the bulk of the income for the unseeded sides.

Geoff giving the lower league clubs a few bob could be done by seeding teams.
Ensure a lower league team is drawn away against a PL team. The PL team gets expenses only and all profit goes to the lower league team.

John #28. Cracking idea - seeding, I.e. the lower the club in the leagues, the higher the club they play in cup competitions.

That's what I'd do Brent.
As long as the lower team plays away to ensure maximum gate receipts.
I seem to remember us drawing Woking away in the cup a few years ago. Both teams agreed to switch it to Goodison and treat it like a Woking home game. They made more than their whole league season.
The club did Woking proud. I'm sure they brought all the Woking players, staff, directors and families up a day or two before the game and looked after them royally

It's a wonderful notion to help lower league teams out - but this is the Premier League we're talking about one of the most savvy and selfish not to mention cynical sporting groups there has ever been. They don't do empathy, sympathy or charity unless it's to gain positive PR, usually for a small scale event.

The Athletic is reporting that some £650m will have to be paid back, presumably to broadcasters, should this season be cancelled. that's the true motive for trying to complete this season, nothing to do with fairness or sporting integrity or even to satisfy what us the supporters may want.

John home and away gives all the unseeded teams Fans chance to see at least the home tie money will still be too tight for many to travel, Taking your idea further perhaps as a one off it could also be regional

For me this is pie in the sky, and based on what's happening in Italy, and potentially worse in France and In the UK, I see this date as wishful thinking, and a holding statement, whilst the EPL get their legal eagles to counter act any breach of contract claims by the media Sky and BT.

The worlds in an unprecedented crisis for the modern times.

I don't see how this will happen and I expect eventually the season will be voided due to COVID 19.

People's health is the most important wealth, and this crisis, once it's over, hopefully ASAP, but likely months, will I'm sure make people realise what's important and how perhaps we take, many things for granted.

Hopefully Everton and Evertonians, are all fairing well, and will continue to so, thought this crisis.

Good health to All TWrs and their families.

Check your email inboxes.

DB-B has written to registered members with a club update on things following today's Premier League conference call with all clubs.

It also mentions EiTC initiatives of a ‘Blue Family' scheme to 'provide support and assistance to the most vulnerable, socially isolated and at risk people in our society.'

Yes fair comment Geoff.
Personally a two legged tie might involve too many games in season but something more regional might be the way to go with assisted travel to all lower league team supporters.
Without the lower league teams there would be nothing so we should promote anything to give them support and help.
Trouble is there are too many greedy bastards at the top looking after their own interests and not the clubs and supporters

I know plenty of people will have renewed their season tickets already, and there are some, like me, who have not got round to it yet.

A statement from the club would be useful. It could not be definitive as the current situation is so unclear, but some statement of understanding/intent about reimbursement for matches lost or a reduced next season would not go amiss.

Tricky, I know, but better than silence.

John, this really is a great idea (lowest against highest, taking in all the professional leagues (so down below Division 2). I'm sure the logistics could be worked out (two legs presents a problem, so...?; it would involve more games for the top divisions, but they could use their U23 sides?; etc).

I'd STRONGLY encourage you to put the idea to the leagues (e.g. put it to the EPL but copy in all the other leagues so the EPL would be shamed if not playing ball).

To give it strength, you might want to consider leading a collective petition on behalf of all TW subscribers. Lyndon and Michael I'm sure would facilitate some sort of TW forum for this. Even involving supporters groups from other clubs.

And then copy it to various arms of the mass media to give it further strength and support.

Draft a proposal to the EPL (c.c. the other leagues) and TW can knock it about. Principles and logistics.

The higher leagues are dependent on the lower leagues; and smaller clubs are important to their wider communities.

Go on, give it a go!

All about the money, Sky etc will sue for 750m-1 billion back if the season is cancelled. The league will do anything to avoid that.

I said they didn't have a chance with the 3rd April. Easter will come and go and they don't have a chance with the 30th April, nor 23rd May for a 30th June finish.

They'll be doing well to get games on behind closed doors in August.

They will make a virtue out of neccessity and take 4 seasons to stagger and then un-stagger around that 2022, (Big money) Qatari World Cup abortion.

And just to cheer everybody up, they may, for Club continuity or something, unilaterally extend every players contract by 12mths and we're stuck with our rubbish for another season.

Restarting the season will have many problems simply because the momentum has gone, players will not be match sharp, so it will be like pre season, the only good thing about that is Liverpool could lose all their remaining fixtures. We could go on a unbeaten run and qualify for the None Euros.

Back in the real world I have lost my job with next to zero chance of me finding any work anytime soon. While the filthy rich players still get paid obscene amounts of money for playing video games.

The world is insane and run by lunatics,

The way I see it there are 4 possible ways this season will play out;

1) The season, with 28/29 matches, is declared complete. LFC is declared champion and the bottom three clubs get sent down. This will get a lot of lawyers rich because there will be an awful lot of lawsuits by a lot of clubs. There is too much money involved for this to happen.

2) It is decided to cancel the 2019/20 season. It never happened! Maintain the status quo. Start over in the next season. Boy would that piss LFC off. What would the status of the player's stats be? I would hate to be the one to tell DCL his goals aren't going to count in his record.

3) The pandemic subsides, and the league is able to finish the season in the summer. This is the best scenario, but a lot depends on a virus that we don't know all that much about yet. This might or might not be a go. I wonder what the odds are?

4) The virus takes longer than to get rid of than originally thought, so the current season is dovetailed into the next. A 76 match season! Not likely going to happen, but would be interesting if it did.

Whichever way this plays out, there isn't a precedent for it. It's new territory for all concerned.

5) resume this season in late summer / early autumn. Then play a reduced season for next season, ie 19 games instead of 38. European games are all one leg and one round of games in the groups.

Steve – How would you see that working re home/away advantage?

I simply think/worry this is all going to drag on longer than we hope for, so be prepared just to write off this season totally. Goal stats could be retained, and harsh on the RS (among many tbh) for sure, fortunate for some others but, for fuck's sake, in the scheme of things who, besides "Them", frankly cares? The buzz is already lost for this season. And take next season as it comes.

Off topic now – I know there are a number of lawyers (of different persuasions) on this site so a question I have not found an answer to (asking for a friend!)...

With the threat of government-enforced lockdowns or even virus enforced isolation, what is the position if this person is contractually bound to complete on a home move, having exchanged contracts, but essentially is unable to because they are ill, removal company is told they can't go out, people are in obligatory isolation etc etc?

English football could restart in August/September and merge this season into next.

Any fixtures yet to be completed for 19-20 could carry double points and the points tally from 19-20 added to 20-21.

Next season would still be 38 matches and Everton would have 37 points at the beginning and if the first match happened to be Liverpool at Goodison Park, Everton if they won would move to 43 points or if they drew to 39 points. Not an ideal solution I admit.

I've seen the suggestions that we continue this season right through to September if necessary and drop European competition and domestic cups.

Okay, so we finish the Premier League and Sheffield United finish 4th and miss out on Champions League football. Just to give Liverpool the title? This season is royally fucked. Let's not ruin NEXT season as well. And bin VAR while we're at it.

Brian Williams - Teddy came up with an ideal solution! He thinks Liverpool should be given a certificate instead of the Premier League trophy!

Martin... or a Crackerjack pencil maybe?

Alan - nice one!

Tony Everan #38,

Dead right it's about the money. Some clubs like Bournemouth would be in real peril if they have to pay TV money back. That's where the decision lies: no chance the season will be voided, as much as we would all like it to be.

Ruining next season or bastardising it because this season has been affected would be ridiculous, but then we have idiots running the asylum.

I suspect they'll play through the summer and reduce the summer break to get the season completed and potentially move out the start of next season but, if the outage persists into June & July, then I'd imagine this season will be scrapped and Bobby Ewing will emerge from the shower in August.

There is a very interesting point made on the BBC Sport website regarding sponsorship and kit manufacturers. How many teams were due to change one or both at the end of this season?

While it's not insurmountable, it is another logistical nightmare for some clubs who may have made arrangements to promote new kit sponsors, sleeve sponsors etc, some clubs may have already started spending the predicted future income?

Sports manufacturers may already be producing these new kits for them to be mothballed. It's not the most pressing problem, admittedly, but it's one I hadn't considered.

To finish this season, play double headers, like we did in that pre season tournament a couple of years back in Dresden. Every game played at Wembley and 30 minutes each way. Would take one heck of some planning but I'm sure it could be done. All suggestions welcome both for and against this idea.

Martin #48.

An excellent idea, mate. Tell him he could present it to Klippity.

Rob, nice idea but that would be a totally different competition. A season that has already started has to be completed using the same rules, surely?

The antibody testing is about to be unveiled, they will argue players can play out the season all CV-19 tested and clear behind closed doors in July , each club a game every 3 days rotating the squad.

They will not want to part with any of the massive TV money hence they will find a way to complete, by whatever means.

Forgive the plug but if anyone has some time on their hands and is desperate for a football fix this show I wrote on is streaming from today on Netflix: Link

It's about the history of football in the 1880's. I wrote ep 4 and as long as it wasn't cut there should be a mention of Everton in my ep!

Tony - you're assuming all the players will be passed ok to play. TV and the FA should just suck it up - they probably have some kind of business interruption insurance and in any case - its not like they can't afford it. Whatever evolves there will be massive logistical problems to solve from kit deals to player contracts, transfer windows to crowd attendance, etc..

Just wrap it up, give the RS a chocolate replica trophy that they can keep, and start again next season (late probably). There's far more for us Joes - the general public - to deal with and worry about.

Forever to be remembered as The Chocolate Champions.

Sam, it's had lot of plugs on different programs and Radio 4 had piece on it last week. Some of the actors were interviewed, it should do well.

👍

Brian#55 - good idea! You know him well!

When he found out his school was staying open while his sister's was closing, he sent a personal Instagram message to the PM along the lines of "F*** off Boris Johnson, why should I go to school when others "! I had to laugh!

Sam#58 - thanks for the reminder.

Sam @58
Well done, all contributions to counter the RS propaganda juggernaut are welcome.
Now get working on that new script about
Everton the worlds greatest team, oh ok maybe just Everton then.

Would they be so obsessed with finishing the season if city were top by 25 points.People are losing their lives to Covid 19 regardless of how it compares with flu or who's responsible for it. If they can finish the season in a timely fashion and the rs win the league then so be it because the crisis would be over and everyone wins, but to carry on indefinitely and run into next season is madness

Would they be so obsessed with finishing the season if city were top by 25 points.People are losing their lives to Covid 19 regardless of how it compares with flu or who's responsible for it. If they can finish the season in a timely fashion and the rs win the league then so be it because the crisis would be over and everyone wins, but to carry on indefinitely and run into next season is madness

Thanks Sam, I will endeavour to give it a watch. I usually find the best films are based on a true story, with none of these special effects baloney etc.

For all those who are interested in Golf, I can also recommend " The Greatest Game Ever Played " which is also based on events that actually happened.

I cannot see much changing anytime soon in any sport.
This thing is going to be around for some time even after some kind of remedy is discovered.
In the event of some miracle they could finish this season later this year and only play a short season next year.

It all seems pretty unimportant now in the light of public safety.

Common sense has to prevail.

Sam @58.

Thanks Sam will give that a watch, have plenty of time on my hands now!

How about a script about the great Dixie Dean? his story needs to be told and shown to the world. Apart from Evertonians, I don't think his achievements are greatly recognised by wider public. PLEASE make it happen!

Raj#69 - good shout! Get to it Sam.

You make a very good point about the wider
public's it ignorance of Dixie. I once talked to an Arsenal fan in a bar in Tenerife who'd never even heard of Dixie! Some fan, but then again, the conversation did take place after the rise of Sky and the advent of the Premier League!

Even in desperate times like this some big businesses/organisations have absolutely zero conscience and any act of altruism seems beyond them. The world is becoming a radically different place right now - for the worse, obviously - and nobody can see it getting any better soon. When protecting lives goes up against big money it always seems to play out the same way. There is huge loss of life going on and peoples' lives disrupted as if it were wartime yet the football authorities and Sky are only interested in how it all affects their profits. Deaths? Collateral damage, just show us the money. Bad times like this bring out the best in many people thank God, but it also seems to bring out the worst in some other walks of life, especially where money is concerned.

Surely it would be classed as a frustrated contract, due to unforeseen and completely uncontrollable events making it impossible to fulfil the contract?

Tell Sky and BT to whistle and get the Contract Lawyers in to argue the above

Raj@69 A film about Dixie was something I looked into but there was a script in development last year that was meant to be moving forwards with Toby Kebbell attached to play the great man himself. Don't know if its moved forward but if it doesn't happen maybe i'll have a crack!

This is the way I see a solution, let's hope we manage to defeat the virus and everyone pulls through.

If and only then this has been done and we get the all clear, we finish this season off, cancel the Euro cups and play 2 league games a week, this will get the leagues finished in just over 4 weeks, then the Euro cups etc can commence.

If we can manage to finish the leagues off and again I point out, if and only if it is safe to do so, then we can sort out next season.

One scenario that could happen is we null and void the league, then next season I pray not but a second wave of a virus hits us, stopping next seasons league as well, resulting in two void seasons.

I hate to say it will then hand our neighbours the league, but for me, if it is safe to do so, we need to try and finish this season off, but not at the risk of putting it above the Panademic we have now.

Peoples well being is far more important than worrying about the fa and tv suing clubs for loss off revenue.

This is where everyone needs to stand up and not back down to appease completing a contract over common sense and people's well being.

Mark Anderson, 40. Totally corrrect, we are led by lunatics and owned by multi -nationals. That's what happens when apathy reigns because we could have stopped this. It can all be traced back to wages no longer being paid in hand and all were forced to open bank accounts. That was the starting point, that and selling off the social housing stock. Fucking tories, I detest them with every fibre of my being. I hope you can find a job soon Mark, good luck to you pal.

Sam @73.

That's great if things are in the pipeline for a film about Dixie.
If that doesn't get anywhere you're our man Sam!

Martin @70.
That dosen't surprise me! I believe if he played for the RS, Mancs or a London club he'd be pushed by the media & know all over. So at the moment it's up to us to promote him and make him known to the outside world.

I hope he is not confused with Dixie Deans who played for Celtic. That was in the days when Scotland produced some neat players.

Just make up a new emergency silverware. Call it corona cup or whatever you like. Hand it to RS and tell them that would be their only option. End off.

Logic says that the season should be abandoned but clubs, particularly Premier League clubs, are frightened about the tv companies clawing back money they will have paid for a set number of fixtures. We all know that many of the EFL clubs face bankruptcy but several premier league clubs could
also face financial hardship. Messing about with this season will impact on next season and maybe the following year too.

Sam @58 watched the first few episodes of the English Game last night and it was magic I will watch the episode that you wrote tonight. I am spreading the word to all football lovers over here in Australia.
And get that Dixie show done mate that would be brilliant.

The current best case scenario for minimum deaths is currently 22000 (a good result (said health minister)) and 55000 or more is very possible according to the government:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-20000-social-distancing-measures-12411836/

I personally believe the government may well have understated things to avoid panick?

Are we, after all this misery and death really going to feel any joy at watching a football match?

It's over as far as I'm concerned.

Ah, the English game when English teams were full of Scots.

You're right Rob, some of us may be making our last posts.

Rob @ 82 I saw that and couldn't believe my ears. China much less than that with a huge population. Makes no sense to me.

In other news Everton are last on motd and Lawro has tipped the Red shite for a win.

I think that some government leaders of some countries lacked the strong decision making a while back and hedged their bets.

The whole scenario could well have been a little better right now.
Trump, Trudeau and Johnston just didn't have the guts.

Everyone is paying the penalty.

It would be supremely optimistic to expect any sporting events to take place for at least six months even behind closed doors.

This season is finished, kaput, curtailed, null and void. No champions, no relegation and no promotion. A write off.

The attention should be focussed on whether it'll be possible for next season to start on time.

In the meanwhile, I'm just concentrating on not being a Coronavirus statistic.

Just a heads up, match of the Day is on bbc1 Sunday 16.40 and will feature Everton v Ipswich from 1985.

It appears the league did actually start before the Premier league.

Gordan @ 84, bit alarmist but we should consider our last post. Here's mine:
Jimmy Case is a c**t

Martin @ 48, I realise this is a long way back in the thread but you hit a spot. Based in Adelaide, I (with my wife, me 71 and her 72) took a flight on Wednesday (this week) to Melbourne to pick up a company ute that was registered in Adelaide but now is excess to requirements. So we decided to sell it in Adelaide. We had planned to stay 4 nights in an apartment and do some sightseeing, too. Between Wednesday and Thursday, the government directives meant no sightseeing for us as everywhere we planned to go was suddenly closed.

Here's the point that your post covers 100%. We advised the apartment reception that we needed to leave 2 days earlier than planned (we had prepaid for 4). The reply was, "No problem, sir. We can give you a certificate noting a credit for you to use within 90 days. If the situation is still not sorted out there will be a likely extension to this date".

So, SIMPLES, as you say, give the RS a certificate!

Personally I don't see how the EPL can and should start laying again soon. The government and chief medical officers advice is a guesstimate but based on what's been shown on the box, this pandemic, is warming up.

I reckon the same rule for all of UEFA, and if and when normality returns, start fresh in all competitions.

The FA and EPL, will be crapping themselves about breech of contract but it's force majeure.

Tough for all teams in run ins to win leagues and get promoted.

Tough, desperate times for the lower, non league grass roots football teams at all levels.

Will the government support their league bodies if this pandemic and after effects, run through summer into autumn?

I can't see preseason friendlies anywhere let alone offshore, and in some cases lucrative revenue opportunities for both clubs at the high and low end of football will be lost..

Shutting the ale houses down will also impact life and now it looks like prohibition dirge times.. let's hope there's some common sense and respect from the public.

Seen too many selfish and self centred alpha hotels, taking the piss in summer markets, jumping queues and buying too much.

Time to reflect on life and what's important.

Kenn@81, thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. Seems to be going down well and providing people with a little football fix.

Just cancel the bloody season and start anew in August. Maintain the current leagues but give the rs a six point advantage and the current bottom three a minus 3 points. Same for all the other leagues. No winners, no losers this way.

Paul @ 92 Agree with much of what you've written. The knock-on effect of not cancelling the season will be tremendous. Player fitness without proper training might be one thing but creating workable match schedules, transfers and their deadlines and the rest without a closed season section would be just about impossible.

IMO, FA should have the balls to pull the plug now and prepare for next season to start on target. OK, that makes the big assumption that the virus would be under sufficient control by then. There will be disappointments for those at the top of the various divisions and some sighs of relief for those close to the bottom.

One thing that concerns me is nothing to do with just football but the lack of spectator sport in general. I am hoping this doesn't lead to increased violent crime rates.

Difficult days now and forward for a while.

Sam @ 93, it is a really good series. It is fascinating as I am not aware if the transition to professionalism. Loved the mention of Everton by the shirt maker! Yours was also the best written and most interesting episode by the way.

I think only simple solutions can work in these remarkable times. Cancel the season, with the aim of starting a new season in August. Next season should be classified as an extraordinary one, with a reduced fixture list to allow for potential virus shut-downs, and a different trophy - "the Coronavirus Cup" if you like - because it will inevitably be affected by the continuing special circumstances. There can be no European competitions because each country will have its own set of problems and timings to face over the next 12-18 months at least.

I think that's the best we can hope for at this point, unless the scientists come up with some kind of silver bullet.

Colin #94 that's right Colin Null & Void. He He He !!! 😀😀😀

Paul (85), you're not the only one stumped over the official data. There are significant numbers of academics, virologists, physicians etc echoing your puzzlement.
I am surprised that a research group in the UK has not been set up to accurately measure the current rate of contagion; it could easily be done by monitoring a random sample of households or individuals at set intervals. Instead all we seem to be getting are modelled projections of what might be happening and what various outcome scenarios there are.
And as for the Chinese figures, as with most statistics that come out of China the best thing to do is to ignore them.

Seeing as their Neanderthal fans crave a trophy, in recognition of their team having been most affected by the virus, why not name the trophy 'Virus Against Reds(hite)' - or VAR for short!

I am in full agreement with a null and void 2019/2020 season but see no reason whatsoever with giving the RS anything, let alone a six point start to next season. Heysel did us no favours, tough decisions mean tough luck and a lot of heartbreak. Am I bitter - you bet I am!!

The premier league are determined to finish the season for two reason. 1) so their beloved red shite can be crowned champions, and 2) they will be shitting themselves about the potential loss in revenue.

As others have said, if man city were top by however many points, the season would have been cancelled by now.

It was great in the local last night. None of the usual gloating from the RS, maybe deep down they know the season is over. I just stood there with a big grin on my face singing Karma's coming home. Of course, I think we all know if the season is cancelled the premier league will announce the RS as champions anyway, but it will be a tainted one, with a dirty big asterisk next to their name.

* 2019 / 2020 champions Liverpool, won by default*.

With things going the way they are I can see this season being completed, whenever that may be possible, and if necessary cancelling, or curtailing, NEXT season. The powers that be seem absolutely dead set on completing this one by hook or crook.
I guess the loss of all that money is a great driver!

Another footy fix, Maradona documentary on channel 4 tonight.

Steve@96, thanks very much. I watched it for the first time last night. Delighted I got my Everton mention in!

Might be talking about it on Mark Webster's show on Talksport 2 tomorrow.

Who cares about football at the minute people are dying, loosing jobs, financial difficulties, stuck at home, not able to have visitors in care homes, NHS struggling, civil servants redeployed to ANY jobs from Monday. I am a teacher and union rep, get a grip! Not even worth talking about football or this season, this could kill thousands in out country and the long term effects could last for decades! Start looking at things that really matter, like yourself, family and community!

Three items the caught my eye from today's BBC Gossip Column. Enjoy!!

On-loan Manchester United striker Odion Ighalo, 30, earns £8,000 per goal and £9,000 for every win on top of his £180,000-a-week wages at Old Trafford. (Sun)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/wilfried-zaha-offers-free-housing-to-hospital-workers-tackling-coronavirus-mq7hkl3mn

Leading Championship clubs are considering a plan to cap player wages at £6,000 a week because of the suspension of the football season.

I don't think any well paid footballer would be too vociferous about any temporary capping of wages.

Unfortunately Tony @ 109 not all professional footballers think like that.

Check out this story about FC Sion in Switzerland.

Link

A quick link to an article about Dixie Dean.

Unbreakable Goalscoring Record

Robert/Tony I think it should apply to the Premiership as well because they are not Training together and not playing either, and most just self-training at home to remain reasonably fit.

Neal #107, I understand your frustration, but is there really anything wrong with chit-chatting about football on a website? It's a good, healthy social distancing activity and can take one's mind off the crisis a bit. Everybody is going through this, but there's value in not thinking about it 24/7 but instead finding little distractions. Personally, if I think too much about my family I'll go nuts.

No harm to it.

Fair enough Mike 113

Mike @113 Indeed - I was just having a catch-up on the phone with a mate and we agreed to try to spend at least 50% of the conversation talking about something not depressing or terrifying. Mind you, it was incredibly difficult. We kept coming back to the same miserable thing - that's right, the Red Shite's massive superiority this season!

JW 110 - That's one of your shortest posts ever - but probably the one that makes most sense and could be a way of Everton getting rid of some/most of their dead wood before their contracts run out.

Mike G. well said, my mum is 85 and had sepsis last year, all ok now. My younger sibling is fixated with mum's health and well basically scaring themsleves stupid mum will die. She needs to think of something else !

So a visit to TW is great for me and I am even signing up to netflix just to watch Sam Hoare's film about footy.
And Mike hope your wife get's home soon.

TALKSPORT HAVE THROWN THIS ONE INTO THE EQUATION AS TO HOW TO DECIDE THE LEAGUE PLACINGS, AND I THINK IT'S THE BEST IDEA SO FAR…..

“There have been a lot of suggestions thrown around as to how the Premier League table should be decided if the coronavirus crisis means the season cannot be completed.
Call it as it is? Wipe it off entirely?
One thing's for certain, and that is that any proposed solution would be sure to infuriate someone, somewhere. With the whole no-sport thing going on, we've had plenty of time to consider clever ways to conclude the campaign, and here's our favourite one:
LET GREGGs DECIDE.
After all, the company has already earned nationwide affection by sending Piers Morgan into fits of rage with its vegan sausage roll.
They've also earned a reputation for treating their staff properly – and all employees are being paid in full if they are forced into self-isolation.
We think every Premier League club should be near Greggs. In fact, any clubs too far should be punished.”

20. Brighton – The Amex
4880 metres from the nearest Greggs
19. Tottenham – White Hart Lane
1660 metres
18. Man City – Etihad Stadium
1370 metres
17. Aston Villa – Villa Park
1370 metres
16. Norwich – Carrow Road
1090 metres
15. Liverpool – Anfield
1060 metres
14. Southampton – St Mary's Stadium
878 metres
13. Bournemouth – Vitality Stadium
866 metres
12. Leicester City – King Power Stadium
844 metres
11. Burnley – Turf Moor
788 metres
10. West Ham – London Stadium
752 metres
9. Manchester United – Old Trafford
741 metres
8. Watford – Vicarage Road
607 metres
7. Chelsea – Stamford Bridge
545 metres
6. Crystal Palace – Selhurst Park
534 metres
5. Sheffield United – Bramall Lane
514 metres
4. Wolves – Molineux Stadium
440 metres
3. Arsenal – Emirates Stadium
377 metres
2. Everton – Goodison Park
230 metres
1. Newcastle – St James' Park
112 metres

I'm not holding my breath but would be pleasantly surprised if premier league players volunteered to go without pay for the rest of the season.

If City or Everton we're 25 points clear would people still want the season null and void.

Just trying the gauge posters feedback whether it is in reflection of the current situation, or because it is our neighbours who are 25 points clear.

For me whether the season is completed or not, I want it for the right reasons and the well being of people put first.

I do not think the fa should be forced to complete the season, if and when we get rid of this awful virus should we even be thinking about completing the season.

If that is not possible then we need to null and void it, through common sense and not bow to pressure.

Jay110

Interesting link about Sion FC.

The league should say wages are capped at £10 000 per week for all, whilst we are in lockdown.

How can they kick up a fuss about that when livelihoods are in extreme jeopardy and ordinary working people are getting laid off. Not to mention the financial stress of the self employed and zero hour contract employees.

At 10k per week they will still be able to put food on the table. It isn't a lot to ask as a temporary measure really, the league should be pro-active about it. It would be well received and for some clubs probably necessary.

It's not just about the title winners, runners up and relegation candidates in the EPL, it's the same across the whole of UEFA.

The Brighton chairman can moan and will hopefully be lamenting that the RS didn't get the title by default. The season is null and void and the same across Europe.

Technicallly with the COVID19, getting a bigger grip daily, and now daily shortages of food it will be a long, long time before the country is safe to get back to basics.

Tough for the RS., tough for a Celtic and the rest of the leagues across Europe?

For me it's no, and in this moment in history man kind comes first and will decide what's the best course of action.

The government is supporting all industries and I expect the media will also get some compensation for this matter beyond anyone's reasonable control.

Hopefully the Red Echo will start dedicating more space to matters that count than fantasising about how and when the RS will be given “their” title.

Did anyone else see the Forrest v WBA FA Cup match shown ealier today on BBC?. In 1978 the crowd was huge and the game was brilliant. It's such a shame the premier league riches and Champions League come first (always). Football has lost it's soul and identity.

Why come on to a football related website to complain about people talking about football ?

There's been plenty of posts relating to the current situation which has helped us all to understand what we're dealing with.

All posts apart from one sensationally ignorant person, have been sympathetic and empathetic to the suffering of those unfortunates that have been directly involved both at home and abroad.

Joe@123, spot on, those days will never come back, the game is run by the TV channels, and they dictate, due to the vast sums of monies they pay the EPL.

Average working class can't regularly avoid todays ticket prices.

Joe#123 I saw the programme and it reminded me how much the game has lost in terms of honest endeavour and entertainment and how the fans were genuinely involved - simpler times all undermined by the lure of hard cash.

Agreed Patrick. It's great watching those old games on MOTD, proper togger and let's hope they put more on to remind people that football existed pre Sky and players competed rather than fell over in a stiff breeze. Despite all their other successes Forest just couldn't do anything in the Cup, would've been nice for Cloughie to have added it to his list. I heard that he blamed Osman and Hibbert

Joe, there is another Match of the Day on Sunday afternoon at 16:40 on BBC1 which is showing Everton v Ipswich 1985.

Joe... what a cracking game, especially allowing for the force ten wind, the pitch hard and baldy (bit like me... Well the baldy bit) and the ball seemed over-inflated with an "egg" in it.

But a full house, two traditional teams, no holding hands with little kids on the way out. No bloody VAR.

Talking of VAR what about the Arsenal v Watford game though!

Sam @93 watched the episode that you wrote last night it was excellent good content and human drama. Is there any more series planned or is this it? I only have 2 more episodes to watch. Keep up the good work. 👍

During the WWII nearly 70,000 civilians lost their lives in the UK, our government is saying that 22,000 dead to Coronavirus would be a good result!

Reading between the lines (and not being on un-reality pills as one or two are on here), they (the government) are saying we could easily get into the many 10s of thousands (beyond 22,000).

With figures approaching or maybe going beyond our WWII dead, surely even those mercenary profiteers at Sky. BT, the Premier League and FA would think twice about a continuance.

Rob (131) they'd get round it Rob, they'd just buy those special knickers!!

So are we allowed to play our new signings to play out the season?

Thanks Kenn@130 Any plans for series 2 will depend on good viewing figures on Netflix. Glad you enjoyed it.

Telegraph and Mail are reporting that the FA are aiming to restart on 1st June and complete the outstanding fixtures within 6 weeks (behind closed doors). The reports say this will stave off the financial implications of writing the season off and won't deny the neighbours their title.

Seems to me that the players and staff's health is being overlooked in this possible scenario and it's more likely they will cancel but say the 'as it stands' table will become the final table.

I hear that we are considering signing someone 'Immobile"?

I thought we had more than our fair share of those.

Seeing that all the medical experts are saying it will be a further 2/3 weeks before all of the UK will reach its peak in this virus outbreak, I don't see how any sane person could even think about re starting football in this country. The far east countries were all better prepared than the west for such an outbreak, as they already had Sars and Mers to contend with.

The good news is there has been no new cases in Wuhan since Thursday and their mortality rate was less than it is in Italy, and considering they have approx one and half billion people in China that is quite unbelievable. Maybe the west should have taken measures much sooner and maybe the mortality rate could have been curtailed. Seems like the west thought that Sars didn't reach us or Mers so carry on as normal. Australia is going into lockdown but still thousands thought it a good idea to flock to Bondi beach.

I would think, going by what the experts are saying, it could be November or December before we get to were China is today. So any football before then seems very unlikely.

Gordon Adie #76, spot on mate, it was a cynical plan to tie people to greedy banks. This in turn led to the terror of credit ratings, financial institutions sharing what should be private, confidential data in order to terrorise people and give them something else to worry about.

Everyone should fight for the right to paid in cash again and remove the bank's hands from out throats. If anything good comes from this crisis, its the awakening of social injustice and the means used to create it.

I can't see any agreement on the ‘as it stands' table being the final table. What club outside of the top 4 would agree to that? Unless it is voided or completed there will be open revolt.

Even completing in June or July is almost immoral when many players and staff will have relatives died or dying left right and centre. It just doesn't seem right to be pushing it. The only humane solution as I see it is ;

1 Tell the all the premier league players and managers of all clubs they're taking an extended pay cut to mitigate some losses.

2 Give Sky, BT etc their settlement figure

3 Abandon and void this season

Tony #140

Fully agree with all your points. As events unfold, even starting next season on time is starting to look a pipe dream. To attempt to resume behind closed doors, or later in the year, is ludicrous for so many reasons. This season is a write off and the only sensible solution is to void it.

It may have been on a different thread but a few days ago I suggested that if our footballing staff took a voluntary pay cut, to help the club through this difficult period, I wouldn't ask for a refund on my season ticket.

Since then some rugby players have done just that but, so far, no sign of any footballers doing the same.

Patrick #136

I wonder how Aston Villa would feel about a final 'as it stands' table as they have a game in hand on those around them? This scenario would result in multiple litigation by clubs relegated or denied promotion and make starting a new season impossible.

Like others I am enjoying the new series "The English Game" among other series, films and documentaries, on Netflix. I can't help wondering though whether the Darwen's hapless goalkeeper was advised by our own Mr Pickford?

As it looks like we are going to be in various forms of isolation, for weeks to come, I can wholly recommend getting Netflix (I am not on any commission btw). I only have the Basic Package, but at £5.99/month it represents decent value for money and also provides a time filling diversion, whilst we are in this mode.

To all of those berating the idea of an 'as it stands' table, I'm in no way advocating it but rather reflecting what the FA will probably end up doing when they actually realise that football will be lucky to restart in the Autumn.

In my opinion, the whole thing should be put to bed right now; if it costs clubs money, then hard cheese. I'm in no mood to watch football right now and won't be for as long as this crisis continues.

Brian @109. That is assuming that you can believe the information coming out of China. I know someone who has a relative who lives near Wuhan and they are saying that there is still a permanent flow of smoke coming from the city. This is suspected to be from cremations. Hopefully the situation has improved.

Mike @144,

This is what I read on the BBC site, and they have reporters in and around Wuhan so I guess they have sources in hospitals there to check out this information.

While I understand your scepticsm regarding anything that the Chinese government publish, but the same slowdown is happening in South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong, and I think we can believe what's being reported from there.

Patrick, I am sure that just about all of us on this thread agree with the general thrust of what you have written. An old acquaintance had a saying, "life's a bitch and then you die". This virus thing is seemingly making this potentially true.

So, what do we do! I'm 71 but I reckon I'm reasonably fit. IMO we should fight through the shit and, when we come through the other side, we say "What the fuck was that?", learn from it and get on with life (for those who are fortunate to not have succumbed to the perils of the virus).

We get down and we get up again as the song goes.

As far as EPL is concerned it is the "What do we get up to?" that bothers me. It appears that those in charge of EPL have zero clue because their minds are closed, no open thinking, no clue on how to move forward. So fixated on the current league positions. No ideas.

Just close it. Now. No winners and no losers. Close it right now and start a new season, if a Covid-19 situation persists. If not permitted at that time, then forward the start date. Simples!

Tony #140 I can see your argument when you say "I can't see any agreement on the ‘as it stands' table being the final table. What club outside of the top 4 would agree to that?".

However, (so much uncertainty in what now follows) assuming EPL clubs vote on this PURELY on the basis of self-interest in where they finish in the league for the 2019/20 season (and I know they'd vote with other considerations in mind); and ignoring the complications of the possible relaxing of the UEFA ban on Man City, then...

... who would vote YES in favour of "finishing the season now as it stands"? Here's what is no more than a guess:

1st placed Liverpool - YES, as they'd be champions.

2nd placed Man City - YES, as they must recognise they aren't going to catch the rs and will be banned from Europe next year anyway, so would want the certainty of being 2nd, if only for the “prize money”.

3rd - 6th placed Leicester, Chelsea, Man Utd, Wolves - YES, as they'd probably prefer to take the certainty of their current positions (they each have the chance of finishing in a higher position, though not winning the league; but also the risk of finishing in a lower position, with a place in Europe next season (?) threatened).

15th- 17th placed Brighton, WHU, Watford - YES, as they are relegation-threatened (only 2 points maximum off relegation position).

18th-20th placed B'mouth, Villa, Norwich – NO, as in relegation positions.

So, a minimum, so far, of 9 teams probably voting to finish the season now as it stands, with 3 against.

That leaves 7th-14th placed Sheffield Utd, Spurs, Arsenal, Burnley, CP, Everton, Newcastle, Southampton. A few of them still have a realistic chance of getting onto 6th place. A few of them have a realistic chance of relegation. Let's assume the former is balanced out by the latter: so 4 more YES and 4 more NO.

Leaving 13 YES and 7 NO.

Would a simple majority vote apply? Or something like two thirds majority? With Liverpool's vote counting double of course!

For me, the only thing to do, if and when we are in a position to start playing football again, is to finish this season before even contemplating starting a new season.

What's the point in say, as late as September that football resumes, of not finishing the previous campaign, and starting another one off? Ridiculous. I know it will give the RS the title then so be it, I'd be pretty pissed off if I was in their shoes. Even if the next season doesn't start until December, so be it, it will have to be worked out, won't it!

No FA Cup replays, a League Cup hiatus, international friendly breaks banned etc etc, the December 2022 World Cup is going to mess the football calendar up anyway, so maybe a couple of December to October seasons will work it out.

There still seems to be a suspension of reality about Covid-19, especially from sporting authorities.

But then there are conflicting messages from government, also.

Let's not forget, barely a week ago Boris Johnson announced the UK intended to carry on as normal allowing the populace to build up a 'herd immunity'.

That was binned within three days and with each passing day this week, ever-more draconian measures were introduced.

But even now you still have Bozo saying the UK can turn the tide on this in 12 weeks. Today, his Communities Secretary has said "Nobody is pretending this will be over in 12 weeks".

That takes us up to the END of June.

And the PL and other European Leagues want to complete their fixtures by then???!!!

Footballers, managers, club officials are ALL catching this. No one is immune.

This site updates daily by each country on total and new cases; total and new deaths; total recovered, active cases and of the latter, the number still in serious to critical condition.

Link

A few have sniffed at the death toll, comparing them to normal winter flu fatalities of around or less than 1%.

It is much more than that.

To offer some examples. Many are calculating the % by a basic formula: Total Deaths (TD) divided by Total Cases (TC) x 100 to get the %.

Even with that calculation, %'s are well above normal winter flu fatalaties.

Take China. As of yesterday (21 March) TD 3,255 / TC 81,008 = 4.02%.

For Italy, TD 4,825 / TC 53,578 = 9.00% - more than double that of China.

For the UK, TD 223 / TC 5,018 = 4.64%.

For the US, TD 302 / TC 24,207 = 1.24%.

Now China and Italy have been in more rigorous lockdown than both the UK and the US who are just at the start of the pandemic.

The thing is, all have HUGE numbers of still Active Cases (AC) and high numbers of Serious to Critical Cases (SC) which can go either way: death, or recovery.

If you do a different calculation and divide Total Deaths (TD) by TD+Total Recovered (TR) to get a % of the two possible outcomes from catching Covid-19 - death or recovery - the numbers can get scary.

China is not exaggerated - TD 3,255 / TD+TR 74,995 = 4.3% death rate (DR).

Italy is SCARY! TD 4,825 / TD+TR 10,897 = 44.27% (DR)

UK SCARIER! TD 233 / TD+TR 326 = 71.47% (DR)

US also SCARY! TD 302 / TD+TR 478 = 63.18% (DR)

Now China has 6,013 active cases (AC), 1,927 of those serious or critical (SC). About a third.

Italy a whopping 42,682 AC, 2,857 SC.

The UK 4,692 AC, 20 SC.

The US 23,729 AC, 637 SC.

Of course, of the active cases, they can be at different stages of Covid-19's cycle. Many will fully recover, a good percentage will pass to the serious or critical phase. Some of those will die.

How many potential deaths each nation faces can be roughly calculated depending on which calculation you apply.

The big determining factor of course will be the measures each nation applies and the resources and the workforce in the frontline of all this.

All very sobering.

The idea that sport or any normal activity can be expected to be restored any time soon appears to be exceedingly wishful thinking, IMO.

Agree with that summation Jay.

Bookmakers shares tumbling rapidly,that tells you what you need to know about when sport will resume.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/22/bookmakers-get-creative-in-gamblings-changed-world

All viruses evolve and mutate. This virus will do exactly that if it survives for a year or more. It could possibly mutate so rapidly that finding a working solution will leave scientists chasing their tails. Then all will be at risk, not just the old and infirm, as countries become reinfected with a new super coronavirus.

Jay # 149, that's a detailed piece of research on the numbers. And sobering (just one figure - Italy 800 DIED yesterday alone. Not diagnosed but DIED!).

And people just saying "the numbers are not as bad as flu" (well, way too early to judge on that) seems to mask the point: this isn't INSTEAD of flu and its impact on the our hospitals, it's not either / or; it's IN ADDITION TO. That's why our hospitals are struggling. That's why treatments for other serious conditions like cancer are being threatened (my wife's, less serious, hospital appointment has been cancelled).

One more point, the research by Neil Ferguson, Imperial College, which dramatically changed the government's steer on this when published just days ago, is provided in extract, but detailed, form in the Observer today. I've only scanned it so far but I THINK I read in the Discussion section something that impacts on the idea of restarting and completing the season...

...until vaccines are developed (18 months or more away, in any case), then social distancing might need to be switched on and off every few months. On the face of it that might provide a window to finish the season. But when the window will fall can't be predicted. And, more importantly, the window would probably be localised within England e.g. NW England might be in a "switched off " phase of social distancing (so Everton, the rs, etc can play) while London is in a "switched on" phase (so Chelsea etc can't play). I can't imagine trying to get games completed, in an unpredictable window, under that scenario, for the next 18 months or more.

Of course this could just be nature's vaccine against human pestilence.

Very good Jay, thanks.

The Chinese figures are now pretty much'actual', in that the new cases have so reduced that they are not likely to move much.

We are told by the experts that the Italian rate is overstated because early on, a lot of cases were missed and assumed to be flu, but either way their figures are horrifying. I think these are the figures which influenced the Imperial College modelling and subsequently caused the screeching brakes as UK policy changed overnight.

From memory, this contained an assumption of 80% of the population, or c50M would be infected if nothing changed, and 260000 could die. Now by my maths, that is not 1%, nearer half that.

I think somewhere in the modelling allowance is made for those cases that are infected but are asymptomatic. These are probably the dangerous ones. Last Monday,these were stated as 50,000, and the previous Friday 10,000! It will be interesting to see what they are tomorrow.

Last week the Guardian published the modelling report, hopefully they will do so again, Monday/Tuesday. I've got last weeks version already so a comparison might be useful, with an extra weeks data included.

Incidentally I don't know how many saw the Sunday Times report stating Cummings was the main supporter of the previous policy and is quoted as saying something along the lines of ‘ so a few more old people die, so what'. I paraphrase. Downing Street deny this very strongly. The Times were very specific. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Keep safe.

Chris,

Does not surprise me at all, the comments from Cummings. A lot of them are not interested in the man/woman in the street. As long as they keep making a profit, we are disregarded by them. Not interested in the working class.

John G,,
Totally agree with all that.

Cummings is a superforecaster – whatever that is – and seems to lack any empathy or emotional intelligence. Something of the sociopath or psychopath. He probably sees himself as the Mekon.

I should say it has been denied vehemently but, as he's not much liked, I'm sure the truth may out.

Hi all, I appreciate that this is a bit off-topic, but has any one who hasn't renewed their season by the on line system, received the renewal forms through the Royal Mail delivery system. I'm beginning to feel a little bit desperate.

We are running about 14 days behind Italy and in a day by day comparion our death rate is very much a mirror image of theirs.

If the next 14 days carry on like that we're looking at 4000 deaths at a minimum but probably far in excess of that.

Yesterday, I was in the local Co-op which is a small one with three tills. There was a queue in front of me but nobody was body spacing, except me. Two people actually asked if I was in the queue!

The London underground continues to be packed and no testing kits are available, even for the most vulnerable which includes frontline NHS staff.

The government's reaction has been shambolic and even since Monday's U turn muddled and unclear.

Things must change or we are heading for a huge catastrophe.

There is going to be a severe loss of genuine wisdom if it wipes out the older generation. Makes one wonder you know, no more bed blocking, dementia wiped out at a stroke. Could that explain Tory inaction?

The Italians, as soon as they realised what this virus was capable of, completely sealed of about 10 small towns in the north, this isn't millions of people, but a few hundred thousand and this thing has killed nearly 5,000 in this little region of Lombardy alone. There's now a movement ban between cities and you need a good reason to be outside in your own city.

We've done next to nothing as a nation, we left our borders open (and they still are), the pubs and clubs have only just closed, and this if rumours are to be believed was because the French President complained we're doing nothing to stop it.

Anyone can still carry this virus wherever they want in the UK, we are a disgrace of nation.

Gordon 160,

They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy. DNR (do not resuscitate) penned on old people's boards in hospitals. Collateral damage, mate.

Rob Marsh, we are not a disgrace of a nation – we are a bloody good nation. The Italians are an older population country than us and their families have grandparents parents and grandchildren all living together. That's why they have far too many people dying.

Gordon Adie, are you for real? You're saying the Tories have done it on purpose??? Get a grip, FFS. This government may not have done things properly in the past but on this, they have followed medical advice, watched what has happened elsewhere and acted accordingly. I say well done. It's down to the fucking idiots not taking the advice and still congregating. Social distancing, just stay indoors!

Crowds on the prom in Portcawl, massive visitors to Snowdon, Tenby awash with visitors and Pembrokeshire residents up in arms at people coming here for an early Easter break.

My gobshite next door neighbours having a bit of a party yesterday with grandchildren and relatives round for a birthday. The woman works in a care home (unlucky for some elderly people), the husband is a Health and Safety manager (lucky for the lads laying the astro pitch on Monday).

The daftness and selfishness of some people is mind-numbing. Army on the streets within 2 weeks.

Gordon @160, seriously! The Government are doing the best they can, this pandemic is unknown to the world.

Bobby, "this government" has supplied the NHS with 4,000 ICU beds with ventilators. Germany has 25,000.

Bobby Mallon # 163

Probably best we agree to disagree on that one.

Just seen this. Another player to add to the list.

Marouane Fellaini has got Covid-19 in China.

Link

My God, this thread is a conspiracy theorists convention. There is some fear-mongering, vile bullshit on here.

John @162 that is just bollocks. Simply untrue. In a worst-case scenario, each case will be dealt with on merits. No "ruling" has been brought out.

Some on here are revelling in gloom and fear. This is deadly serious but good people are doing good things, brave things and decent things.

Rob @161. "disgrace of a nation"? Disgrace of a comment.

You have to wonder does this establishment want rid of our elderly?

They've dragged their feet at every opportunity and all emergency measures brought in have been later than any other developed nation.

Okay, Rob Marsh and John G Davies, if you want to make claims like this, please add a link to a reputable source where you are getting this information from.

Thanks.

Andy Crooks # 170

Have you got a Union Jack on your wall and with pictures of Winston and Maggie by your side as write what you write.

22,000 (mostly elderly) people are going to die, this would be a good result and as a rock bottom figure (qouted from the government that runs the nation you're so proud of), there most probably will be many more 10s of thousands on top of that (approaching our WWII dead).

Open your eyes, breath in and smell the fear.

Bobby Mallon, did I say the Tories were to blame? I did say Tory inaction which is a different premise and factually correct. Do you think they have shone? They are a fucking disgrace.

Andy, Michael

A health spokesman on BBC today said as much.
Andy, are you disputing the fact that they write DNR on elderly people's hospital beds?

I agree with you Rob. We are now a disgrace of a nation, we didn't used to be but by fuck, we are now.

At long last a high profile journalist Oliver holt has said the dates for football return are totally fanciful. He stopped short of suggesting null and void but it's a start. It's the only way next August has a chance to be start of our new season. Albeit still a very slim chance.

Rob Marsh @173
Stop it mate, you're embarrassing.
Well said Michael @172
There is nothing wrong with debating but honestly are some people on here a bit pissed ?

Andy @ 170.

It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid that some folk will posit the most absurd conspiracy theories at times such as this.

And with the easy sharing facility of social media any fabrication can spread quicker than the virus itself.

Before you know it the sheer weight of a duplicated post gives it credence.

This is NOT a man-made virus. I've read more than one infectologist say it is impossible to create a virus such as this in a lab.

It is NOT a western capitalist plot to stall the growing influence and power of China.

It is NOT a callous calculated policy by governments to cull the top heavy demographic of the elderly which is such a burden to the treasury purse.

Nature has always thrown up viruses and plagues to decimate local, regional and global populations.

Human practices and policies most certainly can create favourable breeding grounds and conditions to accentuate things.

In that regard, taking the UK as an example, successive governments have cut funding to social welfare and the health service which has left the nation under-staffed and under-resourced for this crisis.

And that they have been allowed to is as much the blame of everyone of the electorate who gave them the mandate to do so as it is Boris Johnson and his cabinet.

With population aging, “do not resuscitate” (DNAR) decisions, pertaining to the appropriateness of attempting resuscitation following a cardiac arrest, are becoming commoner. It is unclear from the literature whether using age to make these decisions represents “ageism.” We undertook a systematic review of the literature using CINAHL, Medline, and the Cochrane database to investigate the relationship between age and DNAR. All 10 studies fulfilling our inclusion criteria found that “do not attempt resuscitation” orders were more prevalent in older patients

Why are there so many arguments developing? Surely this is a time for everyone to come together and fight this evil disease.

I doubt anyone posting on here knows enough about it to make one claim or another so we don't know whether it is lab cultivated or just an evolution of previous bugs. We don't know whether it's a plot gone wrong or whether it's natures way of getting us back for abusing the world we live in.

What we do know is this is serious and will do untold damage both medically and economically with no predictable end in sight.

If we're going to debate it, let's debate it with facts, not speculation, and let's accept this is much bigger than us.

Without trying to detract from the situation we're in, but just to lower the temperature of the thread right now, since my dream of playing for Everton has long gone, can anyone advise me how I could get a presenter's job on Masterchef?

I can't believe how shouty Greg Wallace is stealing a living. His function seems to be to shout out how long the contestants have left, taste the food, and then more or less repeat what the proper chef, John Torode, has to say. And he isn't a chef anyway, so who cares? They're paying him for this! If Masterchef has a site similar to ToffeeWeb, I'll bet Wallace is their equivalent to Gylfi or Tom Davies.

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm not taking it all seriously, I certainly am as I fall squarely in the vulnerable group but it serves no purpose to dwell on that, in my view.

Kevin @ 185

How dare you criticize Greg Wallace? He's the one that looks like a boiled egg with glasses on, isn't he? He used to run a fruit & veg stall so he knows his onions, at least.

And in case you never noticed, oh he loves his puddings.

Who the fuck is posting conspiracy theories? The government has moved too slowly and you want people to sit back and applaud a fucking omnishambles. No conspiracy, just fact.

I think on this thread and one or two others, I find it reassuring on many posts and get some comfort from them in this very worrying time for all of us, so keep them coming. Not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I know who to listen to and also swerve one or two.

Rob @ 173, yep you sussed me out good and proper. Of course I have a Union Jack on the wall and posters of Maggie and Churchill. In addition I have my posters of Hitler and Mussolini.

"Open your eyes breath (sic) in and smell the fear". Have another read at that, Rob, and take a fucking red neck.

Thank God we have you and Gordon who REALLY, know what is going on, who are more wired in and discerning than the rest of us.

By the way, how do you define a 'nation'? Our NHS workers, social services, those taking meals to the elderly. Are they not part of our nation? Yeah, they are a disgrace.

I'm teetotal, so it's not a drunken ramble. I will admit to the occasional joint for medical purposes.

Gordon Adie @160,

What are you suggesting here then? It sounds like you are saying the Government are conspiring to wipe out a whole generation of elderly people by neglect, a euthanasia programme? I would say that sounds like you are putting a Conspiracy theory as an idea.

Can you clear that post @160 up.
It's just that I have an elderly Mother and I'm a bit worried if the Government have a version of "the final solution".

Gordon, I like that post. We can have heated debate and then you lob something like that in. Let us all have a draw on it and chill.

Not that we really know Andy, that is very true. Only telling what I see and I see clowns telling us everything is going to be hunky dory when it is blindingly obvious that they have given advice far too late. Too late Andy, that is my feeling. As for this great country, yes there are caring, loving people but in the past they were the majority. Not now, no matter how much you try to dress it.

Are you putting the links up I posted after your request, Michael?

Greg Wallace did time as a convicted football hooligan as a youngster so working with vegetables seems to be his forte.

Gordon @ 187.

'Who the fuck is posting conspiracy theories?'

Ehrm... that would he YOU for one. Read your post @ 160.

It was an off-the-cuff remark, Billy, can't you see my annoyance at the government, they have given the warnings far too late.

Ditto Jay.

Billy @186, yes that's him, and you're right he sold fruit and veg. Is the clue in the programme title though, which does not say ‘MasterVeg'. But wouldn't you just love his job now? The job description must read “ability to tell the time and shout required as well as eat on telly”. Well then, count me most definitely in!

Kevin @199

Get in the friggin Queue!!

But come on!! He can eat and shout nearly at the same time.

I have good reason for my anger. Rheumatoid arthritis and cancer tend to focus one's mind. I do not fancy my chances, chances which would have been greater had we a government that moved their arses just a wee bit quicker. It won't be the virus which kills me, the Chinese supply the components which make up many drugs. I would think many of us will die this way.

Gordon @202, I can't say I agree with most of your posts on here but I too have a healthy mistrust of Government and the official line.

I think you went into a different league with some of your ideas but I appreciate your honest replies.

Thanks to all who have been putting in the work and keeping us up to date with recent events and opinions on the virus. These posts are greatly appreciated.

Wasn't "Open your eyes, breathe in and smell the fear" a Spinal Tap single?

John G Davies, you have not provided any links. This is what you posted above:

"They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy."

Where does that come from? Give us a link.

Like most football fans, I have been thinking how the current season can be concluded.
Perhaps the following could be considered:
• Cancel the Euros for the end of next season as well. In other words, completely.
• Re-commence the football season from July 1st to August 31st, play-offs can be fitted into this period. Players contracts extended so same players are involved.
• This period can serve both as pre-season and concluding the present season
• Commence the new season on September 1st.
• Transfer window open all of September.
• Next season to have a complete 2/3-week break in January
• Complete next season 3 or 4 weeks later, as no Euros to bother about.
• If on July 1st it is not considered possible to achieve this due to the Corona Lockdown, either write the season off as null and void, or consider it completed.
• I know this may mean the red rats winning the league, but I think we have all accepted that was going to happen.
• However, the last season will forever have an asterisk * after it- every cloud has a silver lining.

30th April?! What year?!

Fair play, Gordon @ 202. I think Rob and I have had a misunderstanding over what a nation is. It is not last night of the proms etc for me. It is about decent people helping each other and that means everywhere.

I don't know but I would guess a lot if people in Africa cannot wash their hands as easy as we can.

Marouane Fellaini Has now been tested positive for Coronavirus, if Gordon has a theory, could it be our ex players and Manager doing-what they can to null and void the season.

On a serious note though, these are worrying times ahead, let's hope we all pull through and stay safe.

Rob Marsh,

I have no problem with you posting factual information or statistical projections of what may occur with this virus, of which you have done plenty, but can I ask you to tone down stuff like this:

"You have to wonder does this establishment want rid of our elderly?"

Everyone knows the elderly tend to also be infirm and are at greater risk. Most of the deaths are from older people with underlying conditions. Why would you need to make a conspiracy out of an unfortunate fact like this? Can't you see that is unnecessary and unwarranted?

Could these deaths be prevented?
The figures for coronavirus are eye-watering. But what is not clear - because the modellers did not map this - is to what extent the deaths would have happened without coronavirus.
Of course, this will never truly be known until the pandemic is over, which is why modelling is very difficult and needs caveats.
Every year more than 500,000 people die in England and Wales: factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the figure tops 600,000.
The coronavirus deaths will not be on top of this. Many would be within this "normal" number of expected deaths.
It was a point conceded by Sir Patrick at a press conference on Thursday when he said there would be "some overlap" between coronavirus deaths and expected deaths - he just did not know how

I've accepted what's coming, nothing any of us can do now, there was a small window of opportunity, closed now and it's taken us into the land of rapid viral infection. I know it's not an exact science, it could never be but you look for more from elected leaders
and ours ain't been great. I reckon I'll be leaving soon, leaving one reality for another. I'll make this my last post, if I'm still here in six months I might leave a, still walking post. If you don't hear from me again I wish all of you the best, keep marching, keep chanting. I may have my faults but remember I love Everton as much as any in here. Such a pity. Slainte.

Bobby #214 I can see the point you're making but it's more about keeping the levels of hospitalisation below the capacity of the NHS or any other health service - if the NHS is unable to cope; the number of fatalities due to the virus and other illnesses, may spiral out of control.

John G Davies,

What you posted @182 was very interesting. Sadly you didn't provide a link. A DNR ruling from the government, you say?

Or perhaps more accurately, a direct quote from the Abstract for a 2017 article in the journal Gerontology and Geriatric Medicine:

End of Life Care and Do Not Resuscitate Orders: How Much Does Age Influence Decision Making? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis.
by Cook I, Kirkup AL, Langham LJ, Malik MA, Marlow G, Sammy I.

Go ahead... click the link. And compare it with what you posted.

The Guardian editorial tomorrow makes for sobering reading. It spells out starkly what things could look like in a couple of weeks.

It's on the Guardian app now.

I don't know how to link it using an iPad, so if Jay or someone could do the technical bit, it might be instructive for people to read.

Gordon #215 I can't imagine what you are going through, so all I can do is wish you well and hope that you can battle through your health issues.

Keep posting on here as we may all be a bit daft but we do care about all Evertonians and that includes you.

Bobby #214 "The coronavirus deaths will not be on top of this [normal number of deaths]. Many would be within this "normal" number of expected deaths. It was a point conceded by Sir Patrick at a press conference on Thursday when he said there would be "some overlap" between coronavirus deaths and expected deaths".

Yes there will be some overlaps but I think your post is inconsistent, as you say "the coronavirus deaths will not (my emphasis) be on top of the normal number of deaths; and then say there would be some overlap between the two. Those two statements can't both be right.

I keep coming back to this point: it is a fact that our hospitals are struggling to cope with the number of patients, more than ever before. Not only in the UK but worldwide. This is not a case of Covid-19 cases replacing flu cases; this is on top of - why else are all the health systems across the world struggling?

I think people have got side-tracked into the argument as to whether the number of Covid-19 cases outstrips the number of flu cases. It doesn't matter. They are real, they are significant and they are adding to the strain on the NHS. Why else are the government preparing additional isolation facilities, within hospitals (deferring routine operations), and beyond hospitals (preparing to requisition hotels).

Gordon @215

Of course you are an Evertonian, anger, opinion, you care, you stick to your guns, you have a sense of humour, you are someone I'd rather stand alongside than someone who just doesn't offer anything.

I hope you keep reading, I hope you keep posting, don't let tonight's conversations put you off, we are just being Evertonians and you have a family here.

Gordon #215 I echo Patrick's comment.

Gordon,

You might like to look at The Guardian editorial for tomorrow that I mentioned earlier, mate.

Keep the faith, Gordon @215, keep fighting, keep posting, be well.

Chris, is this the Guardian editorial you mean?

Saying we are two weeks behind Italy's exponential explosion and steep rise in the death rate?

Highlighting the government's continued half-arsed approach on this, with Bozo Johnson making misleading public declarations that fly in the face of the counsel he is being given?

Of Dominic Cummings still being given too much sway and say over and above the scientific data Downing Street is receiving?

Not happy reading.

Link

I also note (from the worldmeters.info site I shared earlier today) that the US also recorded its worse fatality rate today.

Yesterday 46 died in the States. Today, 112, with only TWO complete recoveries. Active cases increased by 8,035 in 24 hours to just under 32,000.

If that also continues to grow exponentially as it has in Italy (and now Spain)...best that I put the calculator away now.

LATE EDIT: Opps! I see you managed to add a link to a follow-up post as I was writing this, Chris. It is the same.

Gordon and all fellow Blues - Hope springs eternal. Let's look out for each other, keep the faith, keep praying and keep fighting.

Gordon, love you as a fellow blue. Hope to see you in BMD.

Yeah Jay,

That's the one. Not encouraging to say the least.

If anybody is not paying attention, now might be the time to start.

Okay, it's an opinion, but it's not from a Boris, Tory cheerleading, WW2 Blitz spirit rag. I do a fair bit on LinkedIn and you should see the amount of propaganda pieces, repetitive ad nauseam, about what a great job Boris, Rishi, Old Uncle Tom Cobley are doing on behalf of the country. All forwarded on ad nauseam. I've got a sore finger blocking the things.

Fuck me!

Gordon, have you checked this out?

Michael Kenrick # 213

Hello Michael,

I'll concede that based on current stats not all elderly die and the rate is lower than what I expressed, I painted a false picture.

However, everything else I've said is being said by reputable sources: "Too little too late!", is the sentiment. And it's one the French President feels about Boris's war on Coronavirus. London is begininng 'bloom' with this virus and there is still no travel ban in place to stop it spreading?

The whole world has took exigent measures and enforced them, we are still making polite requests and tepid suggestions.

This week gone the government decalred Friday will be your last night out and look what happened, large groups went to the clubs/pubs to have a few beers and a "last one" and also further infect each other in large numbers, how many more people will die because of that night out?

Why didn't they just announce on Friday morning the clubs/pubs will be shut tonight until further notice? Giving no groups chance to gather.

In Germany it is now illegal to meet in more than a group of two.

I'll concede that based on current stats not all elderly die and the rate is lower than what I expressed, I painted a false picture.

However, going back to "Too little too late" we may well suffer more infections than our neighbours and this in turn will kill more elderly.

Even the best case scenario for the UK is terrible, I simply don't trust "our betters" to manage this situation, they're either stupid or something much more sinister.

This is interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/europe/economy-britain-coronavirus.html

And Boris had to have his arm twisted:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-macron/frances-macron-threatened-uk-entry-ban-without-more-stringent-measures-report-idUSKBN218133

Nice change of subject on Steven Naismith. He is now captain of Hearts who are bottom of the Scottish Premier League, and are financially struggling.

He has volunteered to take a 50% pay cut to try to protect the lower earners at the club, and to help the club survive. He has also pledged to stay regardless of which division they are in. I remember he did a great deal of charity work whilst with us.

Great bloke – shame some other players are not made in the same way. May have had limitations on the pitch, but always gave his all.

Brian, well said.

Naismith has been always generous and intelligent in his charity work. He is an absolute star as far as I'm concerned

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17492944

This has been going on for 10 years plus.
Michael, hopefully you will post an acceptance of the mistake you made re DNR government ruling?
As you know, I made no such claim.

Is the deadline for season ticket renewals still 2nd April?

Andy Crooks # 189

" In addition I have my posters of Hitler and Mussolini."
Andy, I never called you a facist, quite the opposite when invoking names like Maggie and Churchill, I was implying something completely different.

""Open your eyes breath (sic) in and smell the fear". Have another read at that, Rob, and take a fucking red neck."
I have no idea what your trying to communicate?

"Thank God we have you and Gordon who REALLY, know what is going on, who are more wired in and discerning than the rest of us."

Andy, the article below indicates the governments fears plain and simple and if you read between the lines at what's implied, they're saying this could become much (much) greater than 20,000. How much greater? The FT article goes into excellent detail.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-20000-social-distancing-measures-12411836/

https://www.ft.com/content/16764a22-69ca-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

I'm not being a smart arse here, all I've done is read a few articles from good sources and come to some reasonable conclusions.

"By the way, how do you define a 'nation'?"
I fully understand where you're coming from when point to the sacrifices being made by NHS workers and social care workers, I have a relative who's a paramedic and he's regularly putting on a bio hazard suit on emergency calls.

Ultimately though, can you isolate one positive and good aspect of a nation and say this is the nation? The nation should be judged on how it acts as a whole. Have a look on youtube how other nations have shut down to stop this virus, New York underground completely empty (people cycling to work instead or walking), London underground packed business as usual, all breathing over each other.

It's our elderly who will suffer the most and it's the young who will cause it by being selfish because they won't be too badly effected by it and it's the government who are standing by and doing so little compared to other nations.

This is why I've used the the word disgrace.

Totally agree about Naismith

Steve Naismith has got a social conscience and would make a good future ambassador for our club. Or more generally for improving football's image, the future game needs people like him at the top.

Before we sign any ambassadors, let's get a quality keeper, a couple of strikers, and replacements for Keane and Kean.

Fair enough, Rob. We disagreed and I accept your points. Elbow offered.

John @233,

I know exactly the claim you made.

You posted @162: "They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy. DNR (do not resuscitate) penned on old people's boards in hospitals."

There is no such ruling. So you lied. Nothing you have posted supports what you claimed about them just bringing out this ruling.

Citing stuff sourced from 3 or 8 years ago kinda fails the test if we are still talking about Covid-19.

Try of bit honesty and integrity in your posts, please.

With regard to Michael (240) and the exchange with John G, one response John and then we'll draw a line under it. The rules over what is considered off-topic have obviously been relaxed given the current climate, the world's shared crisis and the lack of football but I'd rather the threads didn't get bogged down with too much bickering.

Andy Crooks @ 239

Elbow warmly accepted and returned.

Thanks Lyndon. I agree bickering is not required at the moment.

My point was I posted in reply to a poster suggesting the over 70s are not getting the medical care proportionate to the general population (I was incorrect when I said "ruling", wrong choice of word) a government health spokesman stated the same on that days news although it was in response to the interviewers questions over how could they prioritise in the short term.
I was subsequently replied to with opposite viewpoints.. That's bollocks... Your a conspiracy theorist..
I don't mind that at all.
What I do mind is me being asked to put links up to validate my post it doesn't go up. (It has gone up now)

Stay safe everyone.

Also Michael twists the point slightly.
"Citing stuff sourced from 3 or 8 years ago kinda fails the test if we are still talking about Covid-19"

He knows full well we were debating the issue in the link posted. Talking about the situation with ongoing medical care for over 70s.
The issue has been going on for many years before COVID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17492944

If I accused anyone of lying and lacking integrity I would make sure I had my facts and figures correct first.
No apologies expected.

Cheers, Rob