Everton given bracing reality check as Saints burst early-season bubble

Gomes gets a lot of stick on TW but Everton play much better when he is in the team even he appears to be off the mark. He is the oil that keeps the engine running.

Defeat comes to every football team today, aside for the first 23 minutes and about the first 6 minutes of the second half, Everton weren't seriously playing football with a purpose to win this game. Desire, etc, the same old today haunted the team, but the energy and guile wasn't there.

Today has proved the squad lacks the strength in depth and for me, there's no space for statues in any team, and in my view Siggy today, dire apart from a good shot and a few decent passes that continued the flow forward, went missing.

I'd say also that Andres Gomes, as much as I want him to be the player, whose potential, we saw two years ago, I just don't see happening. Too slow and a couple of 60 yard under no pressure switching passes, doesn't warrant a place, in the starting line up.

These players in my view are a luxury you can only play in testimonial games, and I hope they prove me wrong.

Desire, fight, and game management and two self inflicted howlers sealed Everton's, first defeat this season. Jordan, also at times, was playing chicken, and got away with it.

More than ever this week, is massive but I'm looking forward to Newcastle. Another massive game, but sadly today, abject failure, and the pressure point game, effectively the team didn't turn up.

Is the teams set up, now sussed, I'm not sure, but today Soton, picked us off, on the counter. One player doesn't make a team, but Richarlisons, role, it seems is gonna be tough to replace, as the work he does across the park, literally attack and defend from the back, can't be replaced by any player, in this Everton squad.

Today in my view no driving force and inspiration, it was like there's no command on the pitch, may be there was, but the verbal and visual grit needed to galvanise a team under the cosh, wasn't really there, in my view.

I seen Kean, and Digne, mix a few words, which showed some care, but Everton, we're guilty of consistent standing off for the first two goals, and the game was always tough, to recover from at 2-0, down,

Still top of the league on GD, we didn't concede in the second half but a massive concern in that we didn't get a shot on goal in the second half.

A massive week at FF, and hopefully the players available, can put a shift in and get a good result at the Toon.

Still top, shit happens, like today, so we move on and bounce back next week, at The Toon.

The much improved midfield since the start of the season, simply never got going and gradually fell apart as the match wore on. On a number of occasions, my Evertonian pals say to me on a regular basis about Iwobi, 'there's a player in there somewhere', if that's the case, would they be kind enough to point out exactly where?

In a nutshell, he was dreadful throughout, can't tackle, has no pace to think of, seemingly can't pass the ball either. Sadly, Sigurdsson wasn't too far behind him. Apart from one impressive long range shot when the score was still 0-0, that was his sole contribution to the game.

Carrying one passenger in Iwobi was too much for this Everton team, doubling up the burden with Gylfi was a step too far.

Later on, the manager tried to stop the Southampton flow through the centre of the field, but made a mistake I believe in substituting Doucouré, who I at least thought was having a reasonable game, compared to Allan, who looked well off the pace and distinctly one-paced.

I felt for Calvert-Lewin who didn't have a modicum of support all afternoon, again I would question on this occasion the tactics of Carlo in operating Calvert-Lewin as the lone striker with such poor players operating as his 'wingmen'.

The players drafted in as direct replacements for those missing through injury and suspension didn't do themselves any favours, including the substitutions.

I exempt Godfrey from this criticism as he was hung out to dry playing at right back, a decision Carlo might have regretted with hindsight.

I wonder whether he will promote the young Nkounkou to left-back next week as I can guarantee Digne (in the current climate) will not win his appeal against his sending off, clumsy or not.

Hope we see the right reaction.

Now he didn't have a bad game compared to everyone else but I don't feel we have seen the same Doucouré who was so effective at Watford, regularly out ran and out tackled when we played them.

Obviously he is playing according to Carlo's wishes anchoring the midfield with Allan who once again couldn't get close to Southampton's quick passing and moving midfield. So, like Lyndon, I was surprised to see him subbed.

Maybe he is carrying an injury that we don't know about but if he was 100% I thought he could really step up today and makeup for our missing players but it was not to be.

It is also clear that the desperate attempt to get Godfrey to play right-back must be shelved. Southampton attacked down his flank and he was often caught out. Not his fault when asked to play somewhere he does not know.

Hopefully Kenny is fit next week. And what's happening to Holgate? No news at all recently. We really need a much better performance next week with players playing in positions they know.

To play an obviously semi-fit James was mistake number 2.

Number 3 was using far too many backward passes. when we were chasing the game.

Mistake Number 4 was that awful wishy-washy sickly green strips with scruffy grey shorts. Royal Blue shirts and white shorts are a most important part of our brand. Southampton's Red and Black strip did not clash with ours so why or who decided on the change???

Filthy lucre (money not Digne) - shirt sales.," Southampton's Red and Black strip did not clash with ours so why or who decided on the change???"

Filthy lucre (money not Digne) - shirt sales.,,,1,21:30:49,,2.120.43.163,ok,10701,10/25/2020 21:30:49,Brent,reader,,,no 1106055,40084,toffeeweb,25/10/2020,Jamie Crowley,Jamie.Crowley.personal@gmail.com,Jesus peers,Jesus peers,Turned off,michael.kenrick@gmail.com,0,21:32:23,,99.181.9.247,ok,1592,10/25/2020 21:32:23,Jamie.Crowley.personal@gmail.com,reader,,,no 1106056,40086,toffeeweb,25/10/2020,Stephen Vincent,svashton64@gmail.com,"Jim#4, even a Rolls-Royce needs a service occasionally. No way James should have played today, clearly a good yard off the pace offered young Godfrey no help at all and didn't touch the ball in the last 15 mins. Really strange call to play him.

Can't say I agree with Carlo coming out and saying that Luca's red was down to a backlash from the derby (even if it was) all that does is prolong the thing and keep the whole event in the spotlight.

Let's hope that a rock solid mindset and spirit seen at the Spurs match, can be taken to The Toon.

For me it's Richarlisons, selfless running, dragging defenders and midfielders, out of position that creates space for god deliveries from the middle of the park and both wings, which has made Everton, a good team this season.

But if I'm honest, we are shipping too many lazy goals, and like v the RS, and Brighton, and Soton, today, the concentration, and team work must be total.

As in life, it is how you react to a difficult situation, and bounce back positively to defeat, and grow stronger and get better.

Today could be the key to strengthening the resolve in this squad.

Last week Everton played and didn't lose with Old Nick, today, Everton, lost to The Saints.

In my view, today, th team lost believe, but I also think that part of the dynamic, was lost and defeat self inflicted as the team, didn't adapt well enough to the loss of key players like Charlie, Seamus, and the other midfielder issues persists, as both Siggy, and Gomes, in my view, sadly cant do the business at the business end any more.

But in both of these players cases, I hope I can be proved wrong. Bar a miracle I don't see it.

Lessons learned and we need a RB, - square pegs in round holes, for Godfrey, whose not gonna excel as a makeshift RB, and at least another CAM, in lieu of Gomes, and Siggy, and another striker, as I don't see, any of the youths, in fairness, being close to step up.

Massive week, ahead, but EFC, has done great, so far this season,, but now for a show of proper true grit, for Evertonians.

EFC, Evertonians, we can do it.

“Whats Our Name?”

They where easily strifled and nullified. What is more, the final third play was as woeful as it had been under Silva. As a matter of fact, everything went to the wings and Southampton were able to push up to support their midfield and attacking play. Both goals were poor defensively due to lack of tracking back and poor marking.

I thought Pickford played well and neither goal was his fault. I agree, Digne running behind the attacker was asking for trouble.

I thought Pickford could have done better with the second goal.

How is Brands still in a job? The amount of money wasted on second string rubbish like Iwobi proves he cannot do the job.

Calvert-Lewin without Richarlison was totally impotent.

An absolutely wretched performance which exposed how awful we are beyond the first eleven.

In retrospect, we have the basis of a "good" team that still has a long way to go. Bad as it was, it was not enough to make me jump overboard and desert ship.

Initially I felt the whole team played badly, which is usually the case when a 2-0 loss could have been more. I never like to give individual marks to each player but I would like to point out a few of my observations to be agreed with or disagreed with.

(1) I hope we have bought the right player in Godfrey. I think he has lots of speed and potential to play centre-back or even midfield but not right-back.

(2) Mina never inspires me with confidence. He always seems unsure just what to do.

(3) Gordon has lots of potential and speed; he needs confidence and a chance to start.

(4) I was disappointed to see Doucouré taken off. He at least is able to bring the ball out. Personally he seems to pass just when he has a good run going. He should be encouraged to continue his runs.

(5) Rodrriguez still made some great passes but he was obviously injured and should have been withdrawn earlier; he is still a brilliant player.

(6) I think Delph could offer this team something. I like his movement... still think there is more.

(7) We were given to believe that Allan was another in the mould of Peter Reid or Bobby Collins (for older fans). Up to now, I have just not seen that. My high expectations have dimmed somewhat. I hope I am proved wrong.

(8) Keane is still playing well. I am just not too thrilled by his current partner.

(9) Pickford is Pickford... Brilliant and Dreadful. May need a rest.

After today's game, for me, nobody else deserves to be mentioned. I think we needed at least seven subs after the first half. [I must have calmed down because I originally felt we needed eleven.]

We are, without stating the obvious, behind Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Wolves and Leicester. With more injuries and suspensions, we could be back to the listless shameful performances we've had to endure over the previous seasons, and struggling to see where the next points are coming from.

What worries me is that we struggle to win away from home and where, in previous years, we've had the crowd at Goodison to get us over the finish line. In these strange times of empty stadiums, without our supporters, too many of this current squad, as we know, just roll over. The January transfer window can't come quick enough!

What about the recent "rubbish" he's got in for us? Or was that Carlo's influence?

We played badly.Really badly !!! We lost 2-0. We were the only unbeaten team until today. In the last few week RS lost 7-2 Man U 6-1 and Man C 5-2. If you expect PERFECTION do not support Everton because you will never have a constant continuos 'Football Heaven. I know from seventy years of loyal support and many many ups and downs.

I don't think there will be any more transfers this season in January, maybe a few transferred out. This was always the case.

Everton will get a top six place and have reasonable cup runs. Expectations higher than that are premature.

Everton are still top of the League. They lost by two goals, not five.

I'd say the future with the rubbish he's bought is looking okay...

James for me is the luxury player as his work rate and effectiveness in chasing down players is zero. This puts pressure of at least two players everytime on the Everton right-back and, when you have a centre-half playing full-back, you are in trouble from the first while. It happened against Liverpool last week and again today – no doubt Klopp made a phone call before this game! I agree the James needs to be in at 10 or we set up by giving him a free role and still having a half-back cover for the back four.

This team still needs changes in personnel and, whilst the veneer looks great when everyone is fit, it is paper-thin and cruelly exposed under pressure.

Teams have sussed out James on the right as a real hole that's not been plugged and exacerbated with no established right-back.

Moving on, I wouldn't mind Carlo changing tactics and sacrificing flair for some steel and resilience - like some of the classic Moyes' “keep it tight and pinch 1 (KITAP1)” tactics, just to regroup until Richarlison, Digne and Coleman come back. Play 3 at the back, pack the midfield, give James a free role, and bring some control and composure to how we play. Replace Mina with Branthwaite, who I believe is now training, and is more composed on the ball.

Pickford
Godfrey Keane Branthwaite
Davies Doucoure Allan Gomes Delph
James
Calvert-Lewin

Yes, the above team has almost zero width, but James (and to some extent, Gomes) can provide the crosses, with Davies, Doucoure and Allan doing most of the running and Delph and Gomes doing the switches in play. A couple of 1-0 wins coming off James' corner or set play deliveries met by DCL/Keane would do for me.

We can all point the finger at usual culprits like Iwobi (I'll get to him) but the four signings this summer were all simply out played. Godfrey was hung out to dry. James didnt fancy doing the ugly stuff and Doucoure and Allan we simply outplayed, out muscled and and out desired.

Then there's the manager. In half a century of watching the game I don't think I have ever come across anybody who has been given such a free reign by so many people. What a job he's got. When we do well he is "Carlo Fantastico" working his magic. When we do badly its always the players fault. They are not good enough.

Lets call a spade a spade here. Ancelotti has had a shocker. It would take too long to list all the things he got wrong, but a few of them defied belief. What was he thinking playing a center half at right back behind a man he knew would offer zero protection ? The Southampton manager must have thought Chrimbo had come early.
Why on earth did he render the leagues current hottest striker toothless by asking him to play in the role he suffered for so long under Marco Silva ?
If James wasnt fit why play him ?...The list just goes on.

I know the excuses for this performance will come thick and fast, But I will continue to praise/criticise on a game by game basis and in this game the manager was as bad as any of his players.

The editor of this site asked a very pertinent question on the live forum on Saturday. He simply asked why Iwobi is still getting a game, when virtually everyone else can see he doesnt have it ? Good question.
Iwobi was poor on Saturday, He nearly always is, but it was saddening to hear the stick he was taking. I never quite understand the mentality of hammering players simply because they are not good enough.
At what point do we stop hammering a player who doesnt have it and start blaming the guy who keeps picking him ?

I'm happy to give Ancelotti his share of the credit when we win, but we wont paper over these cracks by blaming players for his errors when we lose so comprehensively.

We are all gutted that our run has come to an end, It has been a fantastic few weeks, but if we are going to get straight back to winning ways. its not just the players who need to be better next week.

It's hard not to get depressed about it as that looked like a lower mid-table team again to me - not one that will compete for anything.

And that was with Doucoure and Allan in midfield, so not encouraging - did Ancellotti get it wrong ? Was it an off day ? Are we just hopeless without Richarlison ?

Lyndon gives some optimism but now we have neither our best left or right backs nor our pace up front thanks to poor discipline along with a little bad luck.

Southampton played well and hurried us all over the pitch and completely snuffed DCL out of the game - he even started dropping back.

Not sure what we do for the next couple of games - I'm glad Gordon did ok and I'd rather Gomes on the pitch than Siggy.

Across the back line and protecting midfield seemed poor again so they need to figure that out.

I do think that Bernard needs to feature more. He consistently had one of the highest tackling rates in the team when he played before the lockdown for both Silva and Ancelotti. It would help with the weakness you have identfied. Sigurdsson won't do it as you say and will sideways pass when under any type of pressure. Gomes would be better that Sjgurdsson with his through ball passing ability, but can get caught in possession deep. Sigurdsson allows the opposition backline to push up compacting midfield, forcing play to the wings. Rodriguez as you say is a luxury player.

Southampton played as they would have against a Silva team, pushing up into midfield. I even think that with Richarlison, the same thing would have happened with a injured Rodrigeouz and Sigurdsson.

Analysis of Southampton prior to the game was poor , as was the team selection. Ings was kept relatively quiet, but tracking runners was ignored.

When Bernard came on we saw immediate action almost as quickly followed by exasperation, shrugs of the shoulder, lousy "give up" body language etc to the extent that IMO we must sell him.

From the moment Anthony Gordon came on, he showed a massive class difference, enthusiasm and the rest compared to most of the Everton players. He MUST be given more game time.

Allan and James looked tired. Why? - International break/travel what?

Doucore looked good. Wh take him off. Delph looked Ok but indecisive at times. Godfrey was out of his depth doing the wing back role with little support and a number of times having no pass options available.

Some players started to lose their "cool" and some of these should have been leaders - Allan for one and Siggy another.

I hate to have to criticise the referees but Kevin Friend has never been a friend to Everton. The decision to send off Lucas Digne bordered on Friend losing his cool. Crazy decision, backed up by the crazy non-committal VAR comment. I hate this VAR rubbish and would like to see it "VAR" ed out of the game.

Two inclusions for the next starting line-up must be Nkounkou and Gordon. Antony Gordon is ahead of his years and should be given a more permanent starter spot.

I must add that I was surprised that our visibly tiring Colombian play maker was not substituted - for the energetic Anthony Gordon - when the second half changes were made. Having then been reduced to 10 men by the referee, it felt more like we were playing with only 9 men.

James to me looked tired and not 100% injury free. The international exertions have burned him about a fraction. Should an 80% James be selected?

Another problem going forward is that Hasenhutl done his homework well . Every time James tried his trademark switch to come inside the door was closed to him . James will have to be aware now that managers are trying to work him out and stop his creativity. It will be a test going forward for him , consistent success will be really hard earned and won't come as easy. It's a challenge he has to embrace.

Godfrey bought as a CB, who has done well at DCM, was forced by necessity to play RB. It's a big ask for the young lad to expect a top class RB performance. He tried admirably but he is not a Premier League RB, we need Coleman or JJK back.

If allowed Newcastle can play as well as Southampton. They have some hard grafters and the likes of Saint-Maximin can rip through decent full backs, never mind inexperienced or makeshift ones.

It will require a fully fit, organised team ready to fight and repel Newcastle in order to win the match. You can't carry passengers against any club in the PL. Nkounkou can fill in for Digne and hopefully JJK or Seamus is back.

Also there were two teams out there, and I thought Southampton were superb start to finish.

Sound familiar? Unfortunately, not to Ancelotti who had a bad day at the office. I understand that you should be confident in your own system of play, but when you have key players out or half fit then compromises need to be made.

The changes that were made didn't work and were never going to. The introduction of the static Sigurdsson robbed us of the passing interchanges that characterised us so far, iwobi did not get close to DCL leaving him isolated and then a half fit James was played ahead of Godfrey.

Hopefully lessons will be learned ahead of next week.

Plus plenty of endevour, running, effort, hard work, not things you associate with Iwobi, Siggi and, sad to say, Bernard who is only a shadow of his debut effort.

I think Delph and Davies, if Coleman and JJK arent ready...and don't ffs rush them back either...will be fullbacks. Spaces must be found for Nkounkou and Gordon.

Nothing less than a Ferguson / Chelsea attitude will do...should ever do.

Anything less and its a gentle sink to the 7th-ish Trophy levels.

I don't know if some players were carrying knocks into the game, but it looked like it as most were well off the pace for one reason or another. I noticed Digne hardly overlapped at all probably because he doesnt trust Iwobi to cover if the moves break down.

I think we should remember that we had 3 regulars missing from the starting line up Richarlison, Coleman and Gomes, I know Gomes was on the bench but strange that he wasnt brought on. So like everybody else in the Premier league we have lost 1 game, and unlike the rest of the premier league we are still top of the league, so disappointed yes but we have seen how well we play this season when we can field our best side so we need to not get too disheartened after 1 defeat.

So a bad day at the office for players and manager alike, lets hope we show a much better response for our next game at Newcastle.

Godfrey is plainly not a fullback, so it was a mistake to burden him with that role, especially given the defensive shortcomings Rodriguez has on that side. Even more so if it's true the latter wasn't 100% fit.

The other colossal error was starting with Iwobi on the left, as he offers almost nothing in attack; he's a terrible player at the moment, nowhere near the standard required for a team hoping to finish in the European places or better.

So with those 2 selection errors, we were weakened on both flanks and by the time Carlo tried to remedy the situation, we were 2-0 down and morale and energy were sapped.

Credit to Southampton, as much as we let them play, they were excellent. Godfrey at right-back is clearly exposed but you can't blame Carlo for putting him there with the lack of options.

So it's a setback, but let's not get carried away. This is going to be a crazy season, everyone will drop points. Funnily enough, I think it's better to play Newcastle away rather than at Goodison because they may be inclined to come out a little and play, rather than sit back and look to counter. The number of teams winning away games this season seems to have gone through the roof.

I said much the same in my post, I totally agree that Iwobi offers us nothing. Yesterday wasnt the first time Carlo Ancelotti has taken Iwobi off at halftime, so he obviously has doubts about him. Maybe he wasnt quite sure whether this was the game to start Anthony Gordon, but when the lad came on he more than proved he was ready. I cant see Iwobi or Bernard getting to many outings especially when Richarlison is back from suspension. Probably yesterday his 3 signings for the first time didnt have good games, but they all look very accomplished players, so I have no worries on that score. But I think we will need more than 1 window for Ancelotti to repair the damage other managers have done to this squad.

Ancelloti has been at Everton long enough to have seen that playing Sigurdsson and Iwobi in the same team puts tremendous responsibility on the other two midfielders. Had Gomes, Davies or Delph started instead of Sigurdsson then Allan could have given Godfrey more support. Gordon on the left would have given some Digne backup.

Why risk playing players who are unfit when there is always the possibility of making the injury more serious? Why play players out of position? What is the point of the U23s if the players aren't good enough even as stop-gaps?

Dissapointment doesn't describe how I feel today. I am angry. Yesterday was a huge missed opportunity to draw clear of the competition and make a statement of intent. I feel let down by the 'Usual Suspects' and by the manager.

I always try to stay on the positive side of what we MIGHT achieve. If you don't have hope why bother following. Out of 142 seasons {minus the War years} we have spent all but 4 of them in the top flight. Not bad when you consider that the likes of Norwich have been relegated 5 times from the Premier League. As Evertonians we have not really done too bad.There are many other clubs who have similar yo yo histories.

Yes I know we are not Norwich etc etc and we have far greater expectations. What you said in your post makes me realise that you must indeed be a staunch Evertonian. I am just as disappointed about losing THE WAY WE DID as I indicated. However I am prepared to HOPE there are better things to come. Anyone who supports Everton has to be slightly masochistic regarding football.

Somehow I try to adjust logically to defeats, even if there have been too many of them of late.I also rant and get really annoyed when we play so badly.But I just love being an Evertonian. I always have high expectations but I have learned to accept that there will always be bad games and bad times. If I cannot accept that I would probably go out of my mind. Regarding Everton my wife thinks I already have.

Questioning Carlo? We're top of the league!

Questioning Brands? Look at the signings this season, all without exception look like an improvement on what we had.

Godfrey at right back wasn't ideal, as many have said playing rb behind James leaves you exposed, but our first three choices are all out injured (Coleman, JJK, Holgate). Who did people want? Tom Davies? Because he'd be better suited to playing defence than a defender?

For whatever reason the team just did not click, be that injuries, tactical sharpness from Southampton, missing key players, tiredness, most likely a combination of all.

But please, lets not lose all the positivity after one bad performance. We are still top of the league, and performing much better than most of us hoped for at the start of the season.

It also makes me laugh that some question Carlo's tactical ability, he's only won the Champions League three times so I suppose he's still learning 🤐

I'm sure where the game is played doesn't make a great deal of difference, these days. One paper giving a report on Saturday's game of Liverpool v Sheffield Utd started by saying the game was played at Bramhall Lane!!!

Remember this almost the sameSouthampton side we played away last year after their 0-9 under Silva and won 2-1. Perspective.

As a match on its own, rotten from 1-14, set up poorly and tactically naive. The failure to recognize the balance of the team had changed and a need to be more cautious. Placed in context it's a bump in the road, it's one defeat in 9 and to date all the players even the ones who came in have deserved a chance.

The underlying issues can be dissected to the cows come home, but Southampton, well their manager out coached Carlo. Fair dos. The main tactical noose was nullifying our flanks, which was our only way of servicing Calvert-Lewin. That attracted our central midfield pair to the fray arriving too late on most occasions, leaving the middle and our defense exposed. In open play Mina and Keane are stuck in treacle. The second goal is a great example.

Potentially I think the reasons behind the selection simply came down to a lack of forward players to make it work. Hindsight tells us letting Kean go was ultimately a mistake, the workload of the season and likelihood of injuries should have been accounted for. It's said he pushed for the move but we should have kept him.

In the same way we made Spurs look very average on the opening day, Southampton knocked us into a cocked hat.
I'll expect a change in formation to account for the absentees at Newcastle.
I'm happy to see a more solid, cautious approach. A defeat is useful, if you learn from it. A win a Newcastle like last year will be just fine, in a successful campaign not every win can be laced with goals and flair. Our very own ‘85 team scrapped its way to many unedifying wins on their way to glory.

I'm interested to know who you'd have picked and to play where?

Criticism may well be due whoever didn't get a right back in before the transfer deadline (not to mention a replacement for Moise)... but not to Carlo's choice at RB. He had none.

I haven't given up but don't think the results will get any better until everyone is fit and over their suspensions, January will not come quick enough and hopefully the transfer window will bring the reinforcements that are urgently required.

Pity you didn't learn much from what you watched, Old Fella, if you're still persisting with this 'Dross' nonsense. How many posts is that now that you've called me out on it? Well, I've finally risen to the bait, but I know that won't stop you from droning on and on about it, repeating ad nauseam what you've already said a hundred times. (Why do old people do that, I wonder?) Go on, tell us again, how old are you now?

Perhaps if you had watched the whole game, rather than just the sanitized 'hilites' on MotD, and not made a prejudgement through listening to soft and biased home commentary on the local radio, you could have provided a more relevant analysis. The game started off fairly even but pretty soon descended into dross from Everton. As many others have said on this and other threads, who actually took the time to watch the game, it was a reversion to some of the worst... err, dross from last season. But of course you didn't watch half of that either because of your infantile 'boycott', so you really had no base of reference to judge it from.

I think I'll stick with my own instant judgements on the game that I form as I'm watching, and I write in the match summary. It may not be to your liking... but then what I was watching on Sunday wasn't to mine either.

As many have said, you can't play Sigurdsson and Iwobi in the same team. Iwobi frustrates the hell out of you, he can't trap a bag of cement and runs like a headless chicken.

I would bring Gordon in now and take Iwobi out, he offers nothing at all to the team and it shows how much we miss Richarlison.

Hoping Coleman or Kenny are fit for the Newcastle game as Godfrey is definitely not a right-back but that's not his fault.

We need to learn from this defeat and any good team puts it right straight away so Newcastle now is a massive game for us: nothing less than 3 points will do.

Richarlison.

If yesterday's game showed us all one thing, it's how important Rich is -- with his attacking skills, his drive, his relentless energy, his tracking back and defensive awareness. All were desperately missed yesterday.

I won't say his mad moment against the RS cost us this loss -- we might well have been beaten anyway, because Saints were up for it -- but what we lacked most was what he brings to every game. Let's hope he's learned his lesson about how important he is, and how not to make such an important mistake.

The credit is all Southampton's. All my musings, post game and live forum say that. This post is more reflective and looking at the reasons why, and saying it's a bump in the road. I certainly haven't trashed him. I've given my opinion with a rationale why I think it went wrong. Mostly citing Southampton's manager with the credit.

I used Southampton's win last year as perspective as to highlight with better players this year Carlo should have done better. In isolation it's a poor effort from him, he's not above criticism. I suggested the set up was wrong not the players, indeed I clearly say those who came in deserved the chance.

A quick look over my posts will show in a huge fan of Carlo. I think you've jumped in too footed there! 😊

The world and his dog knows how good James is going forward with the ball, but they also know how limited he can be going the other way. Not something lost on the Saints manager when he looked at how to get at our make shift RB.

James should have played No 10. He should only ever be played out wide when he has an experienced full back behind him.

We know James can decide a game single-handedly so a more compact 4-4-2 would have felt like the way to go. A set play etc.

I'd image Davies right midfield and Bernard left midfield might have given us the protection we needed. Potentially Nkounkou instead of Bernard to give a left-footed balance.

The young lad Godfrey is one for the future and he's not a right back. Remember Seamus getting a chasing on his debut in Portugal many years ago, and he has gone on to have a great career with us.

Southampton away is not an easy game nowadays. Disappointing we lost, but we are not quite the finished article yet, especially when we have a few first choice players out.

We may see a formation change, 4-2-3-1

Godfrey Mina Keane Nkounkou
Allan Delph
Doucoure James Gordon
Calvert-Lewin

(assuming Kenny and Coleman are still out)

Given the time of Richarlison's red and the overall nature of the game, it was naive, nah it's was stupid, and he's lucky the Pickford thing has taken all the air time.

His absence completely screwed the balance in the team. He stretches teams vertically, the four Southampton defenders won't need to clean their kit for next week because they never got beyond walking pace.

As stated by Darren #23, James is not interested in tracking back. Godfrey had the look of a right-back that knew he was being exposed, which must have been a nightmare in his first full Everton game. Walcott tactically knew how to keep defensive shape, which explained his selection under successive managers and Sidibe did help out and got tackles in.

Gomes in midfielder does most of his best defending on the right. I never like to see him deep centre where he is a liability. Steve Ferns is right the Gomes is better for this reason and the balance of the team. Against Liverpool's pace and high press, that had him hounded and under real pressure, which he cracks under. We do miss Gana who, with Allan, would sort out all our problems. Maybe Gbamin is the answer.

But I also agree with Lyndon when he says the set up doesnt really accommodate a number 10.

James is one of those players who come along every blue moon. He's got soul, but he's not a soldier. There's absolutely no point in giving him a "Job". Give him a shirt and tell him to enjoy himself

Mr Ancelotti has flirted with the idea a couple of times this season. I guess thats why I don't understand what happened on Sunday

We will lose games but it is disappointing to lose them like that. After the second goal heads dropped. The attitude stank. Our players seemed interested only in getting off the pitch. Winners battle on to salvage some pride at least. There didn't look a winner among that lot.

Disappointing how fragile the mentality is. I see nothing wrong with supporters lavishing praise when we are excellent but calling out shit and lack of application when we see it. A well-beaten side who battle to the end don't get stick; outfought teams do.

I enjoy your posts, John, even if you've only listened on the wireless!! Keep it up, John, Evertonian views from different generations should be encouraged. All the best, John!

Did any of the substitutes used yesterday show hunger, desire and enough will to win to convince Ancelotti that they deserve a starting place?

Ancelotti must think that a half-fit James is better than what we had on the bench and I totally agree with him.

Pickford
Godfrey Mina Keane
Kenny Nkounkou
Allan Doucouré Gomes
James
Calvert-Lewin

I don't think it was a wake up call. I think it is what most of us knew. We may have a very much improved first 11, but still lack depth in the squad. Any injuries or suspensions will impact us more than the Sky proclaimed top 6. But then, let's get back to our realistic targets this season. It is not to win the league, it is to qualify for Europe. Top 6 is very much achievable, top 4 a possible outside bet.

Southampton done their homework on us yesterday and to be fair, played well on top of sticking to their game plan. We were off sorts at best, which was compounded by performances from the likes of Sigurdsson and Iwobi reminiscent of last season. I've tried to defend Sigurdsson over the seasons but yesterday he was particularly poor.

Picking up on a couple of points. I agree, would like to have seen (and would like to see) Rodriguez play more of a roaming role as it makes us less predictable and takes away opposition focus on the right side. I think this team will eventually settle down into a 4-2-3-1. And for their second goal, yes, Sigurdsson was at fault, but let's not forget that Michael Keane, having initially been tight and knocking the eventual goal scorer off his balance, did not track same player and got sucked into ball watching. As Keane drifted towards our right back, the player he had just been tracking drifted to our back post on our left from where he scored.

Look, there are far more positives to take from this start than negatives. Yesterday was a bad day at the office and we were beaten by a team who performed much better on a day when we didn't show up. Hopefully there will be less of those days than last season and the signs so far suggest that will be the case.

Are there two Michael Kenrick's? The one who writes articles and the one who writes posts. I can't believe they are one in the same. Such a contrast.

By the way, I fully support your posts.

I watched the whole match and thought Everton were clearly second best. Unfortunately, I did predict the result and even the score, so no after-the-event wisdom here. My reasons were basically that we haven't really played anyone yet although Spurs was a good win, well deserved, but West Brom and Brighton each scored 2 against us. Mostly down to our midfield, whoever they were, losing the ball.

Inspired forward play on those days enabled us to win convincingly and thus the criticism on these pages disappeared. Generally on TW, posters exaggerate how good we are when we win, and exaggerate how bad we are when we lose.

So my reason for admitting I'm an old git is to explain how I spent many years watching the greats of the past, Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Alex Young, Bobby Charlton, Denis Law and Georgie Best (sorry I can't think of any Liverpool players). And you know those teams and those players played many dross games. I can never remember any fan accusing them of not trying though.

Accept defeat with good grace and let's hope the club can fix what was so poor on Sunday. I didn't like some selections myself. Carlo set a target to compete, not to never lose. Liverpool crashed 7 times, their team even including the fallen madonna, Van Dijk.

You where the one that spotted Sigurdsson's inaction during the game. I do think part of the reason for Digne tracking back was to try to do what had not been done. Of course, being late starting, he was going to be behind his man, which is always a problem if you do anything, especially with a professional footballer at full tilt. Sigurdsson, with his bit of 'lack of effort' makeup which stops him from achieving his potiential, is never going to change.

Gomes does not like being under pressure and I never like to see him central. But on the wings he is defensively useful, presenting himself for a pass and passing out of trouble. He also puts tackles in, and doesn't foul to the same extent as when central. He is not a sole defender but makes a contribution in a pack. It was this that was missing on the right and just changed the balance of the side, as Steve Ferns said.

I was very critical of him during the Liverpool game, but think his absence was more the reason for the Everton performance against the Saints, rather than Richarlison. In the Liverpool game, he was a playmaker that Liverpool targeted as having to be dealt with, but he still made a contribution in the first half to Everton's shape, and the fact he had to be dealt with by Liverpool. .

As Darren rightly says, James is no soldier, so whoever is behind him, wherever he is playing, needs protection.

Blip or 'back to normal'? Well find out on Saturday.

I think in hindsight we missed Gomes yesterday. I thought he was poor against Liverpool but, in all honesty, we probably shouldn't judge too harshly when you play the best team in the league (feel sick). I think yesterday Gomes in for Sigurdsson makes a difference but, like I say, that's hindsight.

Sigurdsson isn't as good at the midfield basics and we are nearly always under pressure when he is involved. These days, I see him as a useful (£45M!) sub for the last half-hour of games when there is a bit more space for him.

Looking at the Spurs team tonight, they have multiple options up the front, we are down to just one at the moment and I think we will pay the price for it until Richarlison gets back.

I don't understand the comments made to you as I always thought your comments were well-founded from an experienced supporter and regular spectator whose views and opinions were not vindictive to anyone.

I am 80 years old and if my life had not gone in another direction, I would most probably be in your position o having followed Everton from an early age to becoming a regular season ticket holder.

On age, I just come across a saying from Confucius – "Old age to me is a good and pleasant thing, it is true you are gently shouldered off the stage, but then you are given such a comfortable front stall as a spectator."
You can't get experience unless you have lived it to experience it.

The words of Brendan Rogers. This should be a reflection on the Southampton game where we had several players in that mode.

This is the only blip on Carlo's record this season in that another goalscorer should have been brought in before the deadline. He knew Tosun was out and Kean wasn't up to snuff, add to that Walcott being sub-par and you had a situation that could arise which it now has thanks to Richarlison's red.

It could have arisen anyway with an injury to either of the front two but Carlo may have thought that James, Iwobi, Sigurdsson and Bernard could pick up the slack but that won't happen if they are too preoccupied by midfield chores especially against a decent side like Southampton.

Another test coming against the Barcodes so we all hope they are up for it this time.

That's exactly the benefit of Gomes, his involvement and playmaking ability, both Allan and Doucouré needed him in front of them. They have far too much to do with the work-shy Sigurdsson in front of them, who is not interested in playmaking.

Sigurdsson is useful as a sub to change the pace of Everton, to see a game out. With the present squad, when their tails are up, they will trade play for play with the opposition. Starting him just adds sluggishness. Everton will just look off the pace and him not helping just adds to the problem. That's the influence he can have when selected.

Sigurdsson knows full well what he is at. I noticed him, like Mike, against the Saints standing back and not engaging in a game in the Carabao Cup. Gordon covered the situation correctly, doing what Sigurdsson should have done. Sigurdsson shouted instructions to Gordon to take up a certain position just after that. I just thought to myself he was just showing his authority after Gordon showing him up. When younger, I have been in that type of situation at work and recognised it straight away.

Sigurdsson managed to make Everton's midfield look like they were being managed by Silva, with wing-play stats to match.

Barry #98,

A very apt and definitive quotation.

He can't run, he won't tackle, he won't press more than once or twice per game. He can't dribble past players, he won't show for the ball (and still hides). His famed quality deliveries and visionary passes have long gone, after never quite living up to their billing.

He somehow manages to clock up a high distance covered in some games but it's all invisibly, at jogging pace, in the wrong place. And he points. He stunned me by hitting the bar, Sunday. I think he makes Iwobi look good.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?

Senior squad, U23... U18 – all lost their matches respectively.

If you didn't know better you might think USMFF is still stuffed with highly paid mercenaries who are advised by their leech agents to just screw us to the max before they, the agents, have to seek the next best lucrative contract for their uncommitted client/s.

To me, Carlo Ancelotti is a breath of fresh air, as is Marcel Brands, but with a long road in front of them.

Their/our problem is exterminating the psychological mediocrity within USMFF, and Bellefield before it, that was inspired and promoted by a bog-standard West End theatre producer who's masqueraded for decades as a football eminence-grise, to our huge cost.

If he was a plant, Kenwright would be Japanese Knot-Weed, now needing total extermination by any sane person, after a period of official indifference. And no, I'm not wishing him exterminated but his removal from any role in the club is required.

Hell, as a gesture of "thankfulness", I'd even support Moshiri paying for a season ticket so that the teary-eyed conman could continue watching the club he says he loves (and why wouldn't he after trousering fabulous wealth on our backs?), providing it was right at the front of where the Boys Pen used to be, the bit that was always swirling with piss and gozz, and a smattering of blood on occasion.

Not that he remembers any of that, of course.

He won't stay there and nor should he if he is going to be the creative magician we love. But, at least we can move to a tactical set up that allows cover for our flanks, where he leaves the right-back exposed and forces Doucouré to move across. That then creates opportunities in the midfield space he has had to vacate.

Rooney's Sunday Times article identified the need to add two more quality players into the squad in January as cover for Calvert-Lewin and Allan. Can I suggest we emulate the redshite in asset stripping Southampton and target Danny Ings and James Ward Prowse? They are always excellent when I watch them.

Will @ 101, one thing you are missing about vastly overpaid Special Teams No 10 Sigurdsson. He is a crap role model who tries to tell young players like Gordon what to do, but never does it himself. Given his love of standing and pointing, I would suggest we loan him to the Merseyside Police to help direct traffic.

We have to accept that we are nowhere near where the manager want's us to be. You can't cure all ills in one transfer window. It was obvious last summer where we were particularly weak and come June 2021 other obvious areas requiring improvement will be identified and hopefully acted upon.

John@67, fair enough, a bump in the road as you say.

He'd make Stephen Hawking look good.

Don't make personal comments, because there's no point in it, it can make you look foolish even if you're not a fool, and it's unnecessarily unpleasant. There are enough unpleasant things in the world as it is.

I am sure when Michael reflects on his post to John, he will be disappointed he sent it. We all know that sometimes on this forum we all hold passionate views and thats a good thing but when it spills over into personal attacks then it massively detracts on how good this site is.

I would just urge all who contribute here on TW not to indulge in personal attacks at fellow posters, yes you can disagree fervently with another poster but put your alternative view without making it personal. As we all know this is a great site for Evertonians and thankfully we are a pasionate lot, just lets make sure our passion doesnt lead us to make personal insults.

For this reason it's better to have a passionate and respectful exchange of views even when they're at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Obviously Richarlison was missing and that is a major factor as every league game that he's missed whilst being at Goodison, Everton have failed to win.

Clearly that points to how integral Richarlison is to the set-up and there isn't a natural replacement for him within the squad. As Mike Gaynes alluded to earlier in the thread, Richarlison's work on and off the ball is invaluable to this team.

James, Iwobi, Siggy, Bernard et al are all what I would call luxury players, sometimes capable of bits of magic - James at least is capable of producing many accurate simple passes as well as being a regular creator of goals - but generally they are unable to influence the tempo of the team and none of whom could be described as hard-workers or tennacious in the tackle.

How Everton have managed to purchase quite so many players who are only able to do positive things one game in five or cannot do the basic things adequately so often is beyond my comprehension.

I'm hoping that Sunday's performance isn't repeated anytime soon, but fear that it will be because without Richarlison we look both impotent and defensively vulnerable, that isn't what we'd hoped for a couple of weeks ago, but it is what it is and we'll have to suck it up, unless Carlo decides to change the way we line-up whenever Richarlison is unavailable to him.

Given that Richarlison will be wanted by other clubs and he will likely want to join them from next summer onwards, Carlo should be trying to adopt a system that will work without Richarlison as the likelyhood of finding a like-for-like replacement is minimal and probably beyond Everton's budget.

Take no notice of Michael K, John Mc, because it sometimes feels like he hasn't watched the game either, when you read some of his match reports mate!

Each to his own I say, I'm just glad I've got rid of that squeaking hinge headache, the red mafia in the media, gave me all last week.

Instead of arguing amongst ourselves, surely we should be making videos of Mike Dean's face, the minute he realised he'd been overruled, and gave a penalty against his beloved reds, and then watch in despair when he gives a penalty, for the two he turned down to the blades before the middle of December!

Some good debates across the threads at the moment. Thats what makes this site a must visit

Godfrey is capable of covering at right back, he has all the attributes, but like DCL when he was playing up front a season or 2 ago, he hasn't learnt the position yet.

Sigurdsson was Sigurdsson. He has had a couple of cameos where you think there is a player in there somewhere, but he reverted to type again on Sunday. Giving the ball away too much, poor pressing, missing in action - except for his shot that hit the bar.

Iwobi was Iwobi. Again, he has had some good cameos this season and probably deserved his chance, but as he always does, he didn't take his chance.

Personally, I thought Delph did more in 15 minutes than Sigurdsson did the rest of the game. I'd be glad if he came in for Sigurdsson for the Newcastle game - stiffen up the midfield a bit and allow Doucouré to help out on the right hand side a bit. I think Gordon has earnt his chance ahead of Iwobi and Bernard now on the left.

Rodriguez has been a revelation this season on the right - he'd created more chances than any other player in the top flight, in addition to his 2/3 goals. Why change a winning formula? I say keep him on the right and let's hope for a better midfield performance without Sigurdsson and Iwobi...

It's difficult for any team to maintain momentum when key players are below-par, injured or suspended. Liverpool were very fortunate with injuries last season, as were Leicester when they won the league. Look at how Liverpool are crying like infants now that van Dijk is injured.

Sometimes, international breaks can be a benefit in giving a break during bad form, but equally they can upset a period of good form. It strikes me that's what's happened, and if so it is surely a temporary blip that we're seeing.

In the first 4 games we all remarked how the new boys had transformed the atmosphere at FF.

However I noticed on Sunday that there were a few arguments going on, now that may be because we now have players that don't like losing but it doesnt help if players are calling each other out on the pitch.

It was also strange that all levels lost at the weekend.
Maybe the gobshites put some poisonous gas in FF following the derby.

Age should never be a factor in giving your opinion. Hopefully old age comes to all those lucky enough to achieve it. Along with old age comes wisdom, experience and most of all compassion.AS another 80plus oldie I always try to stay honest to MY values. I also try to stay young in spirit, mind and attitude. I rarely use my age in posts but today I will. Because it is a factor.

Moreover, the volume of posts on this site which cross the line for sexism, chauvinism and utter toxic masculinity under the tenuous guise of humor are ten a penny. Where is the outrage here?

The name calling and continuous feuding of an extreme personal nature that dominate and ruin threads? I do see some push back here, but it's hardly an avalanche of protest.

I will say the people who run the site might reflect why such an environment has been allowed to flourish?

I'm sure the site would be even more enjoyable and attract more posts if people weren't put off by the posters debating the football rather than the poster.

Godfrey, is no right full and lacked experience not to be so exposed especially when James doesnt track back.
Alan, looked tired already, wait until mid winter and games pile up. Would have taken him off before Dacoure.
Iwobi: Doesn't have the ball skills or vision.
Siggy: Is at best a good replacement but did have the only realistic chance of goal of his own making.
Bernard: Lacks presence in role he is best suited.

In summary we were disjointed on right at the back on on the left up front with two “luxury flair players” and a Rottweiler without teeth in midfield.
Don't see any improvement against Newcastle,
On the position of right back, Hope you didnt do too much damage with your coffee at the suggestion of Davies at right back Mike, do you have a suggestion or just like to comment (Smiley)

I would point out that what struck me as a disproportionately nasty personal attack -- one that specifically jeered the elderly in a way I haven't seen here before -- was delivered by one of the "people who run the site" and who therefore enjoys immunity from bans or suspensions for misconduct. That just ain't fair.

David #123, I take your equivalency argument, but in addition to the basic inequality I just mentioned, there is a striking difference in tone and tenor between John's and Michael's posts. I've never seen anything remotely like that from John, even in gear-grinding mode.

I'm not exactly a paragon of etiquette myself sometimes, so accuse me of hypocrisy if you wanna, but I really did think that post was inappropriate.

To use the word ‘dross' to describe Everton's performance on Sunday is simply fickle. We are not the best team in the world when we win, and we are not the worst team in the world when we lose. Every team can have an off day, and if Sunday was ours, it comes after our best start for 100 years.

There's a sense of entitlement if you are using words like ‘dross' to describe our defeat away at Southampton. No team plays well every game.

Southampton away is not an easy game, they will give any team a game. Our defeat on Sunday should be kept in perspective. We are still top of the league, we had a couple of players missing and we finished the game with ten men.

Let's not beat ourselves up about one defeat after a brilliant start to the season...

Regarding the grim RB situation, there's no real choice in my view. Godfrey is bigger and swifter than Davies, and as a defender he at least understands the fundamentals of man-marking, tackling and winning headers in his own box far better than a midfielder like Davies.

My first suggestion is that Godfrey spend this week taking a crash course in right back positioning at the University of Ancelotti, hopefully to improve this weekend. My second suggestion is that we all paint ourselves, dance, chant, sacrifice small animals and burn incense for the quick return to health of Seamus, JJK or Holgate.

(I'm kidding about the small animals.)

Having said that, I am so heartily heartily sick of the current 'you can't say that' atmosphere that has pervaded our national consciousness this last five years. And the virtue signalling that has gone along with it.

Imagine if the current generation had been the ones to actually fight real nazis, we would never hear the end of their tales of derring do, In some ways, I see ToffeeWeb as one of the last bastions of people getting on the intranet and saying what they think without fear or favour. There is a lot to be said for that.

Kevin@143: Yes, you're right, but personal responsibility and common sense must enter into it. It's not a free-for-all, nor should it be.

I've been waging a one-man war against it in 2020.

I digress.

Everyone hug. And everyone needs to realize it's Michael's site, he can say as he pleases.

When you're under someone else's roof, it's their rules. If you don't like the rules or the application of the rules, you leave the house.

Having said that, and also someone who's not known a tussle or two with John Mc Snr, I'd hope he sticks around.

Sir John:

Moreover, the volume of posts on this site which cross the line for sexism, chauvinism and utter toxic masculinity under the tenuous guise of humor are ten a penny. Where is the outrage here?

There is none. TW isn't full of snowflakes. 😜😜

^^ a joke. Fairly funny for me. Decaf, decaf.

Ask me when I leave my safe-place, please.

Upheld Everton's appeal of excessive punishment.

Still a dumb bit of play though. Justice probably done given the circumstances

Very droll. 🙄 *1-0 Crowley*.

“Your house, your rules” can't really agree with that JaC. I was brought up like that, it's exclusive and hierarchical. I ran a million miles from it.

“Lead by example” I'm sure that might be a more fruitful way to run any enterprise?

However you've taken a challenging subject, given an strong opinion and not resorted to personal insults.

I will say what you don't see is the people who post less because of the behavior outlined or don't post at all fearing a response from those who can't be civil.

Andy, the site may have become tamer, that's still no excuse for personal insults. Any point, however good is almost expunged from memory if the poster is rude or insulting. I was taught if you resort to insulting people, it's generally because you've lost the argument. I think there's merit in that.

Plenty of posters say very strong things about club, players& tactics without losing their head.

Add to the attacking effort though.

Let me close in saying I have the utmost respect for Sir John ( always a gentleman) and Michael ( whose work and dedication to the Blues and ToffeeWeb goes largely unrewarded and underappreciated) so its a shame a little spat has spiralled into a talking point.

It's a good outcome but weird, as he wasn't going for the ball it can't be serious foul play but only violent conduct, which it wasn't.

They must have done some odd deal.

The FA “Look you lot, you need a suspension, your a bunch of hackers...we need blood for all the ‘cryarsing' teams in the league.

Us “How about one game?”

The FA “Sure that works for us. Deal”

4 years of Trump saying exactly what he likes is not a censored society scared to open their mouths. We lap up all things US of A in Blighty, we're just a bit behind so you might get your wish very soon.

I wonder how many ppl suffered with PTSD after the war due to a stiff upper lip.

Anyhoo, gotta go now as my nightly cocoa is about ready

Anybody's apt to get called on something in here. Anybody.

For his own reasons, John has repeatedly insisted on us knowing he's boycotting watching the games. Repeatedly. Same as John mitigates his postings by mentioning his age. Repeatedly.

For HIS own reasons, Kenrick had had enough and said so. I thought it was funny and had a laugh. Nothing for our against either of them. It's a discussion board.

I thought you were talking about Sir John and Michael.

Come on fellas lets put it to rest now and call a stressful 10 days to a halt.

I ignored it the first time...

And I ignored it the second time...

You came back with it a third time and, yes... I ignored that too. Obviously much to your displeasure.

Because you came back a fourth time with the same by now exceedingly boring observation. But this time bringing it over to a different thread. There was absolutely no need for that.

Hopefully I didn't disappoint you in the end as I reacted to this delightfully passive-aggressive behaviour.

If you wanted to go out with a blaze of glory, you certainly succeeded. Well done!

A very wise, successful and wealthy old gent (that I later grew to know very well) witnessed it. He said to me; "You failed. I watched you. You nearly walked away but you failed."

I said I couldn't turn my back on it. He kept going at me 'til it was too much.

"No", he said "The anger in you grew too much. We give anger to ourselves. We can choose". He was right. Not saying I can always stick to it, but they were wise words.

That was in real life. I have to say it, Michael and John; you are now basically arguing with words on a screen, not each other. Seems neither will back down anytime soon, seems you both understand each other's point by now, so job done.

It all looks a bit unnecessary to us lot watching. Put it behind you, and carry on enjoying the pain of Everton. In no time at all, it will all be forgotten and no-one will care, 'cos we've all done it.

Anyway, I'm sure we will meet up again, hopefully soon. I'd like to think that you will keep writing and submitting articles. Which have always been published and always been enjoyed.

May I echo Andy's post and say we've lost too many regular posters over the years – Doddy (who I think took more abuse than anyone), Gavin Ramejkis, Eugene (who does pop back now and again).

It would be a shame to lose you too. I guess you are a very sensitive and principled man but don't let that get in the way of enjoying Evertonian banter, frustrating though it may be on occasions.

Where was you brought up? Shaw Street wasn't it ?

And you are going to walk away from a site you love because of an ongoing minor spat? I would really like to think not.
Where would we be if your sparring partner decided to do the same thing?

This is a footy forum, John. If you don't fall out with somebody, you're not doing it right.

Get yourself back here man. You've still got things to say and articles to write.

Bottom line, you're both good guys, just diametrically opposed.

Darren (for once) is right. it's just a minor spat.

Have a couple of beers/cocoa tonight and get back on here.

Life's too short. As is Don Alexander.

By the way, Don, they don't put years on me, although I can't say the same about the fella you constantly mention!

And sorry to disappoint you Dave (#184) but I'm 6" tall. Ah well.

Boxing fan, Racing fan. Proper Evertonian who talked constant shite?

Hope you are well lad... I miss you

I respect all views and opinions as expressed on TW, and with all contributors to this website, there's some whose views, I agree with, many I don't, but that's the world of matters Everton. It's good stimuli and learn from reading the articles and it's a great source of relaxation. Good also there's such a loyal and passionate set of Evertonians, who make time to express their views and feedback.

The fortunes of Everton, have ebbed, and flowed over time, and through thick and thin, the common bond we have and are proud of till we part this world is being an Evertonian.

Substance, strength and belief often in adversity.

Like life now, we improvise, adapt and try to overcome the challenges that life brings.

Your input and feedback, I always appreciate, and I'd not let website, altercations and skirmish's, stop your written feedback and reading of this website.

As Evertonians, we stick together, now more than ever, and I respect any descisions, you make John, but sincerely hope you change your mind.

Hopefully may be next summer, there could be a well over due ToffeeWeb Fest, and a chance for TWrs, to meet up and talk all matters Everton, over a few drinks.

Hopefully John, if the COVID19, situation, changes and a vaccine is found, this will happen, you'll be there.

I feel like riding into battle!!

My kid brothers going in for a tumour to be taken out tomorrow, so my view is make the best of every day, there's always some poor sod, whose generally, got worse challenges to face and as a Evertonians, we know as good as most, the trials of life

“What's Our Name?”

Hope it all works out for you and your Brother.

Cheers for our kid as well.

The one thing Bill Kenwright can identify and employ is a proper prick.

Over to you! :)

Very sorry to hear you have made this decision. Hope you will reconsider, since your posts where always balanced, well mannered and of principle. On top of that they made a valuable contribution to ToffeeWeb and kept some of us right, including myself on occasions.

Good Luck, Good Health and Best Wishes. You will be sincerely missed.

Sorry to hear that you have concluded to take this decision. I have always found your posts, well mannered and have often kept some of us right, including myseif, reading all posts. I hope you will reconsider, you will be sincerely missed.