Farcical goal seals undeserved historic win for Carlo Fantastico

Let's wait and see anyway. I'm guessing Saka is at left back for them, their team doesn't look great to me...

COYBlueboys!!!

Davies should start....Davies won't start. And I was chastised!!

Makes no sense to me but I don't get paid millions to make these decisions.

But this is Everton's night and best chance to get the win to keep in touch with the top 6.

Win for Everton, virtue and football, and stick one one of the traitor clubs.

Gonna check the odds on B365, like Everton, I am over due a win...lol

Could be several formations and probably will be.

Take the chances and don't fuck up at the back, and we can win this. We need to beat them for many reasons.

Holgate and Godfrey were excellent (albeit with Keane in attendance at Anfield). Arsenal's two main forwards are missing, so that'll help.

Not sure about starting all 3 of Gomes, James and Sigurdsson together. Sigurdsson and James certainly deserved to play. Last game showed what two technically gifted footballers can do together. Nice to see Calvert-Lewin back alongside Richarlison to give them problems at their end of the pitch.

Let's twat 'em!

The lad was brilliant last season, has been played out of position the majority of this season, and most of his best performances have been at centre-back.

He's also outperformed Godfrey the last few times they've both been at centre-back.

Let's see how they do before criticising... but I must say I'm disappointed Tom didn't get a start.

They have great potential and have both played very well at times, I'll be cheering them on no matter what!

Oops - looks like the match is starting!

Best 45 minutes of football from Holgate I can remember.

I must ask, where has Richarlison's energy and desire gone? Far, far too peripheral and failing to help out the team.

You have to say, the next foul by Partey SHOULD result in his 2nd yellow and an expulsion.

No penalty. Spot on.

Not so long ago it wouldn't have been given in the first place and we could have saved about 5 minutes.

Coote and Moss officiating. Mick and Montmorency!

😂😂😂

That was hard fought and another "It's been donkeys years since we won there" off the list!

UTFT

Thank you Leno. And VAR.

Yes, we defended well and Pickford made some good saves toward the end. Why Delph came on for Gomes, who knows?

And as for James, he was not at it tonight. It was like playing with 10 men and he should have been subbed at half time... maybe he was dreaming of his summer holidays.

Awful game. Another match which was like Soccer Aid. Delighted to win at the Emirates at last though.

My headline, for what's worth, is: Sneak Thieves and Snails Grab An Embarrassing Win Going Backwards

Carlo, your tactics are getting worse and slower with no attempt to disguise them. Sadder still, a lot of fans will be happy with the performance.

If nothing else we don't have to listen to these embarrassing stats about not winning at grounds for x years!

Not the best going forward but looked solid! We deserved the bit of luck after palace and Spurs

Wins away at Tottenham, the Shite and now Arsenal. Three monkeys off our back.

Marvellous. We have a chance this season, despite everything. Try to raise a smile.

Delph did absolutely nothing to be criticised for. He organised, kept possession and steadied things down.

3 nice points. 25 years since our last win at their gaff.

We weren't too bad first half. We played well.

Arsenal ok the front foot in the second half.

But. 3 points. Clean sheet. And the last team I saw us get a result away to Arsenal I remember distinctly checking 303 on Ceefax for updates.

Thank you Mr Ancelotti

90 mins of my life I won't get back.

Coleman Pickford and Digne (first half) played well otherwise deeply unimpressive performances. We still need a new midfield this summer.

And Yes, James was close to being absolute rubbish tonight. I love the lad but every time I wanted a good forward or crossfield pass from him, it was sideways or backwards.

Who cares that we did it with a supine, passionless, slow, ponderous, ambition-lacking, playing-it-so-slowly-across-the-back-they-all-had-time-to-get-into-shape way? How do this team get up for the game in the dressing room - get out their CDs of whale noises and waves lapping at the shingle?

You can taste the disappointment that we won.

Solid defending in the 2nd half but Everton invited trouble in the last 30 minutes.

Delph for me is a waste of space and can't even get the right socks on but may be that's down to the kit man..

Good to get the win, make history and now to beat Villa.

Sadly the days of proper tackles in football are gone for good.

Dropped points against Spurs and Palace, when we played well, agree not one of our classics, but getting towards the buisness end, I would take 5 shitty wins, than playing another team off the park, and dropping points.

Win ugly if needed for now.

This is a fantastic result.

As it seems that Carlo has finally seen how crap Iwobi is will he now follow suit and drop Gomes as well? I like Andres, he doesn't hide like the other fella but my god is he useless. Time to get rid of both of them.

There is no disappointment that we won.

But there is a massive disappointment that we continue to play utter shite, that Covid and VAR have conspired to ruin the game we loved.

Sadly for the Premier League, we are not alone in that.

Farcical? You're having a laugh. In it to win it. Beat his man, fired it in hard and low.

Undeserved? Why? Because they had more possession? Remember Bobby ffs?

Wasnt a great performance, but either side could have won it. Let's give credit that we did.

Even his shot for our goal wasn't on target. Clear oggie.

Pickford for me today. Says a lot that Jordan was possibly our best player on the ball today!

A heat map of the play would show Everton passing and in possession almost exclusively between the edge of our penalty area and a line drawn across the pitch to the limit of the centre circle, in our half.

I'll happily take the points, and our first win away to Arsenal in a quarter of a century. 15 years they have been playing at the Emirates, and that's our first ever win there. But that was turgid.

Now officially our best ever away points return in the PL era and bizarrely we sit just 3 points off 4th. Everything very much still to play for.

Go figure.

Get paid

BTW, that VAR sequence belongs in the Louvre. An incredibly soft penalty gets quickly rubber stamped, then somehow ends up overturned on a fingernail offsides call. Classic stuff.

Everton have stood on their dignity for much too long and have lost repeatedly while doing so.

Thier 'penalty' - what a joke. Utterly pathetic. Ceballos looking for it after what happened in the first half.

Delph - jesus christ he's shit.

Fantastic win though. UTFT!!

Wow, Chelski away? We used to count draws as near victories these last decades...

Delph - 6
Tom - 4
Mina - 4
Iwobi - -3

Most of them were awful tonight.

Bang on

My statement stands whoever names Richy as MoTM. He was out and out cack.

The win should seal eighth place. Loose talk of chasing fourth is ridiculous. We are only three points below fourth but our performances suggest we are miles away from that level. If we finish eighth with something around sixty points it will have been a decent season with a very limited group of players.

Defensively Holgate and Godfrey did well albeit against a very weak Arsenal attack. The midfield display was passable in the first half but almost nonexistent in the second. The lack of a driving force, for example Doucouré, in the centre of the park is a real problem for us as soon as the opposition step up a gear which Arsenal did for a period in the second half. We seemed to have no way of getting out of our own half other than a long punt up to the front two.

Liverpool and Arsenal scalped on their home grounds, Everton should be Champions.

Jay #72

Agree. Pickford motm all day long.

You know what, give me 6 more of those exact performances if it means we win all the games and get in the champions league.

Do you think we'll remember any of these performances when we get to have some fantastic away days on the continent next year.

Neither team deserved the win, their keeper produced a howler, England's number 1 pulled off a fantastic save at the death.

I want to see attacking football, both teams looked like they where going through the motions of an end of season game. No passion, no desire to win a game from both teams.

Thought Davies was very unlucky getting dropped and watching Delph get on before him.

Their Pen was terrible, how John moss and var thought it was a pen is evidence that the current crop of refs are dreadful.

Struggled to give a motm, probably give it to Holdgate, he has been a bit iffy recently but looked organised and defended well.

Another poor display to be honest but we have had quite a few like this when we didn't win so we must take this for what it is worth.

Richie is an enigma. Looks like a really dangerous player at times but inexplicably makes many poor decisions.

Meantime, we crucify ourselves. No wonder we bottle it.

It's been a very crazy season for Everton a whirlwind start with some good football, then a period of abject results and performances, but the constant clicking up of points on our travels helped to keep us within touching distance.

Then a few shambolic home performances and results where we have dropped a ridiculous amount of points. Somehow with six games to go, Everton still has an outside chance of Europe.

What I don't get and never will understand is how the players can't seem to pass and move with real purpose, it's as if they think that somebody else will take responsibility and be the creator, but the results on the road seem to indicate that they're doing something right and the home results indicate the opposite. I can't stand watching Everton this season and I'm almost grateful that I haven't had to be in the stadium to witness it in the flesh.

I do hope we change our style for next season because as good as it is to get 3 points in any game, home or away, there has to be something to get excited about apart from the final scoreline.

The positives have been our results on the road at WHL, Anfield, and the Emirates, not just for yielding nine points but to have broken the hoodoo of all three venues which is a rather large monkey off our backs.

Another 540 minutes of football to endure and hopefully a good few points to add to our total or not as the case may be.

Sign of progress?

ESL mk2 started tonight.

If at the start of the season you where told we would be challenging for Europe, beat Liverpool, spurs and the Arse away, who would have taken it.

Hands in the bucket.

Sigurdson, Allen, Gomes, Rodriguez, and then Fabian Delph, making me ask a serious question, which is could any of our midfielders today, run the 100 metres, in under 15 seconds? And if they could, could they do it again after a 30 seconds rest?

I know you are rarely asked to sprint more than 50 yards on a football pitch, which is just as well given the lack of athleticism in our midfield, and possibly a massive reason why we really regressed after half-time, although I thought Sigurdson put in a lot of hard graft tonight.

And the goal was farcical, along with many other things about the game (see post #85). But the win was historic. Me thinks you protest too much.

Sorry but I've always called the games exactly as I see them. I know we're supposed to bend over backwards not to cause anyone offence but it's really the truth that's upsetting you.

It's much better than dropping four points against Palace and Spurs against who we played quite well.

Fucking joy.

"A pro-Perez post Barry?"

It's conclusions like this that make me realise what a monumental failure education has become.

We will need new blood and a few going the other way to improve. Surely any qualification for Europe will help us attract the type of player we need.

We still have some very young players in our squad who can improve. Maybe not in terms of individual skill but become more consistent. I'm still not a fan of holding on to a 1-goal lead. We could and should have pushed for a second goal.

Christ, Kenrick, even for you this is an embarrassing headline.

We, like Arsenal, are two top-half clubs not near enough to challenge for the title.

The goal resulted from an absolute of sporting competition, "pressure breaks pipes".

That's it. We win.

Even James was poor, giving the ball away a few times. Mind you, sometimes he was looking to play a forward pass before realising there wasn't one on, and then losing it to the press while he tried to work out plan B.

We definitely miss Doucoure. Even more than I thought we would. Midfield remains pedestrian without him.

How the hell are we still in the mix with the way we've been performing?

I've seen Everton teams be brilliant at Arsenal and lose or draw. I'm happy. But confused. I can't quite get on board with us being lucky. I'm not conditioned for this.

Although in truth I thought it was a fairly even game. Possession doesn't mean anything.

At least Jon Moss is consistent!

The worst ref I've ever seen... and the bar isn't that high.

How many times have we seen the Super 6 win games undeservedly? Quite a lot.
Dodgy pens, late goals, breaks aways against play, deflections... it was our turn tonight and long may it continue.

Utft.

Away from home against the top seven, we have won 3, drew 1, lost 1, and still have two to play, and even if the football hasn't been good, it doesn't mean Everton are not our team, so let's get behind them now, and see where it takes us!!

You raise a great point in your second paragraph. Unless appearances are very deceptive, my guess is they couldn't.

On the luck front, I feel like you get what you deserve. Fact is that Leno deserved to lose for his mistake. Him being more deserving of a loss, we deserved to win. In the same way, I feel we didn't deserve to beat Spurs because Holgate and Keane weren't deserving of a win. Other than a third party interference eg. Collina, ultimately you get what you deserve IM (I wouldn't say “humble” necessarily) O

We didn't play well, but we won. When I was a kid in the 60s and my dad took me to the game, we had quite a few games where we didn't play well but won. I recall my dad saying to me that when a team can play badly and still win, that's a sign of a good team. I'm not saying this team is as good as the 60s teams, but I am saying that there are positive signs of some progress.

No, I'm not satisfied with a dull performance, but I am happy with the three points and looking more difficult to beat than in recent seasons. And I'm happy that a lot of the goals we've scored this season have come from very good crisp attacking play and good finishing. That's despite being unhappy with the performances that have been dull and where we've failed to find the net. So it's a mix of good and disappointing, with some progress overall.

Our best performers were in goal and in defence. Happy with this result, but Arsenal were there for the taking and we only just stumbled across the line, which is worrying. Our midfield is too slow and ponderous with Sigurdsson and Gomes is the same team. Rodriguez had an off night also. We need another player alongside Doucouré to provide legs next season, we must have the slowest midfield in the Premier League...

A team can play brilliantly and lose because one of their players makes a bad mistake, so the secret is to get rid of the players that make bad mistakes, then you might stop being unlucky!

I definitely concur with your last sentence.

The only time they really troubled Pickford was after the goal when they tried to get back into it by pushing more men forward including the keeper. The game overall was a poor one with one team wanting to score on the break and another making sure they had enough men behind the ball to stop it.

Neither team was a Match of the Day qualifier by far, but we have broken two hoodoos this season, one at Anfield and the other today at the Emirates. And it is Everton's present manager who has done it.

Let's see if Newcastle can put a bigger smile on our faces.

Delph I do not understand. Got booked immediately and comically miss-hit a pass at one point which somehow went up and behind him. In fairness he settled down a bit after that but surely he's getting offloaded in the summer so why him before Davies? DCL didn't look for to me, lethargic and looked knackered with 15m to go. I was stunned he wasn't subbed off for King.

Digne had a great first half and Coleman was solid but coughed up possession a couple times in the second and his awful touch was bailed out by Pickford late on. James was OK and certainly put a shift in but got bullied off the ball a few times and his passing lacked it's usual zip. Allan OK. Godfrey and especially Holgate player well. Pickford impressive. Richy offered a threat and I thought worked hard.

Thought we gained control gradually in the opening half but once again failed to come out for the second when the game was there to be won. We got lucky as we offered zero threat in the 2nd though the Arse were little better.

So undeserved, maybe so but as Ancelotti said we deserved more from Palace and Spurs do maybe we're owed this one. I'll take it.

Second half was absolutely dismal, we reverted to the mind-numbingly slow, sideways and backwards crap, only broken up by ineffective long balls.

I know Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin were great together earlier this season but they desperately need some competition and we need other striking options. They are toothless, Calvert-Lewin looks a million miles from scoring a goal ever again and Richalison is so selfish every time he's in possession in a threatening position. He picks the wrong option time and time again, even the option he picked for the goal was wrong but we got lucky!

We need a centre-half with more confidence to pass the ball into midfield and we need so much more pace and power in midfield.

Flog him in the summer

Your mate's mistake was in not wearing lucky white socks (like Delphinho).

That pass from Allan to Richarlison was lovely enough.

We've been a mess this season but we've been streaked with beauty.

If we get top 4 (or 6) then the beauty will grow.

Game.

EVER...and thats before discussing Delph.

Fella's going to be one of the greats and he's starting that in our shirt. Farcical.

I get your point and have felt that way many times in Fergie time and against the RS, but honestly I didn't see Arsenal scoring tonight. Was that because we are so resolute or because they are so inept? Could be either or both but I just felt pretty comfortable the last 15 minutes to be honest which is fairly unusual for me lol

I have, therefore, seen our Captain for the next 10-11 years, and I have seen Glory.

Obviously the game can be viewed many ways; were Everton under the cosh in the second half, or did we defend well away from home? Were Everton lucky, or did we make some of our own luck?

For me, we played well in the first half and defended well in the second half, kept the shape well and counter-attacked when necessary. Saying that, we were pushed back too much and lost possession far too often for me.

The positives though are that even though James didn't play well tonight, we still won. Holgate and Godfrey look a good fast athletic partnership. Sigurdsson has re-found his mojo, covers an awful lot of ground, and is always a threat with his free-kicks, passes and closing down. Yes, I know what I have just said – he does seem to be very decent at closing down recently.

Gomes divides opinion, and I can see why. However, I have been a massive critic of his privately (not on here) but in the last half a dozen games or so, his ability to switch play, spot a pass that doesn't look on, or just be in the right place to stop an attack have made me reassess his role and abilities. It is nice to feel wrong sometimes.

This brings me onto Richarlison – and I am happy to be shot down here.

Since he came to Everton, I have not been to sure about him, his role, or even his position in the team. His Premier League goal return is about 1 in 3 for Everton, his assists are less than 4 a season at the moment, and at times I am not sure what he is meant to be? He is not really a centre forward. He is not a winger; nor a wide midfielder.

As said, I am happy to be shot down here, but is he a tad overrated by both the fans and media alike!? I am happy to take onboard anything that proves otherwise and reassess my opinion/feelings on this!

Pickford: Looks slimmer, more focused and reliable!

Shame Davies was dropped as he has looked pretty good lately. Even when he is not having a great game, his attitude is first class. Plus, as is the way with modern football, he's the only local in the squad!!!!

Anyways – a win away – at Arsenal. Well, I will take that, however it happens.

A clean sheet means you are always in with a chance of winning!

Pickford has had a good season too.

James... was shite. Kept coming too deep only to give the ball away. We miss Mina for dead balls when he doesn't start. I was pleased for Holgate and Godfrey getting another start together That's about it.

We deserve a bit of luck. And Delph. Well, he was a bit rusty. So what. If he stays fit, he could add something to the squad.

What happens in the summer... well that depends on who we have tackers for. 3 unexpected points puts us in with a shout. Pity we have some home games left.

Too many pointless touches slowing everything down, under-hit passes cutting down the recipient's options, over-estimating his ability to manoeuvre away from opponents and zero hustle to get back on terms when the ball was played in behind him. I really don't expect to see much better from him in the future.

A large part of today's performance was down to James trying to get involved and our full-backs sitting deep. Delph will get another run out next game also. Unless he picks up another training ground injury!

Pleased for the 3 points... but, as ever, a look back to our home form isn't nice viewing. We can still dare to dream. Might be the confidence we need to finish strong. It's the hope that kills us... as ever.

Arsenal looked like a side that didn't have a striker while our midfield needs somebody to bind them into a unit which needs to get forward to help Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison. Indeed, it was almost half an hour before you realized that Richarlison was on the pitch. Then, cometh the hour, cometh the substitution and while he didn't do badly, it was a surprise that Delph was the man.

So uninspiring was the performance that it is difficult to find our MotM and on the basis of a couple of good saves I'd have to give it to Pickford with the only other player for consideration being Godfrey.

If anything it only makes previous dropped points even more disappointing while you have to ask how they think Arsenal, who may be on the brink of success in European competition, are going to make a breakaway league any more exciting.

And that's today's entry from the Happy Clappers USA Club.

(Seriously, somebody's gotta tell Richarlison to skip the celebratory chicken dance off a goal like that one. That was plumb embarrassing. Just smile sheepishly and run back to midfield, dude.)

Until that happens, we're consigned to more snail-paced catenaccio mundanity, and it's not the fault of Marcel or Carlo.

ToffeeWeb's English cynicism is rubbing off on you mate. As Mason Holgate said it was a “fantastic” goal. After last week's assist of Holgate's ass, any kind goal of goal for us is a thing of beauty.

And goals seem hard to come by in this run in, DCL's early form where he couldn't stop scoring seems to have evaporated as has the team's creativity in the final third. A bit harsh maybe, but as many have said we have played a lot better than last night, and lost!

I slated Gomes off before the game, as I just don't rate the guy, but only partial egg on my face, he did have a short spell where he was making me eat my words, then lapsed back into 'detritus mode' hence the substitution. How can a professional player who is on the sub's bench knowing he could get the call to enter the fray, be mis-appropriately dressed?

Couldn't believe it (there's the Victor Meldrew in me emerging again) that Delph came on with White Socks when everyone else was wearing Blue!

Tony Abrahams, excellent point about the suitability of Jon Moss to the Premier League Refereeing, what a disgrace, Allan hardly touched the Arsenal fraud who simulated Audie Murphy going down in a movie after being shot at least 14 times. Yet he produced a Yellow for that innocuous coming together, probably to get his own breath back as you say. Another stealing Oxygen on the Planet!

I was a bit concerned a few minutes into Delph's substitution. From having the wrong socks on, to getting a yellow card to slicing the ball, to just looking gash really. He needs to be pensioned off like Wilshire at West Ham. No other club will buy him from us. Carlo got that substitution wrong for me. Davies should have been brought on ahead of him.

Four points from games against Arsenal and Spurs is decent. Delph's brief cameo a summary of his Everton career as a whole.

I was worried Holgate started after the Spurs blunders, and Delph coming on, but credit to Ancelotti, he has them organised.

Villa next up, let's finish the season strongly with Doucouré back soon.

But, the karma from the action by the board and supporters ref super league shone through with the goal.

I thought we played well. Calvert-Lewin has been pilloried tonight but was always in the box waiting to pounce. Richarlison's shot in the first half that Leno saved, Dom was there, it just went over his head by inches.

Second half, he would have scored if Richarlison's pass had been true but Leno this time didn't do too well. Calvert-Lewin was always there for the pounce. Sigurdsson was my MotM, he covered a lot of ground.

It's all been said; a turgid affair for the spectator. A game of chess at times with both teams, Everton especially, more interested in their shape than trying to exploit space.

Richarlison got lucky with the goal and it was an absolute howler from the keeper. He actually done really well to use pace and purpose to skip past the full back and put himself in a great position. Then he made a poor decision or poor pass (undecided) but got out of jail and we got lucky. Had the keeper not gifted us one, he was about to get both barrels from Calvert-Lewin and James, who was lurking in acres of space on the penalty spot.

Didn't like the way James was so deep at times. Tactic or frustration to come and get the ball? I am undecided. Gomes I thought played well in the context of the standard of the game. On more than a few occasions I saw both those players look up and visibly get frustrated with no options in front. We rightfully bemoan sideways and backwards football but let's not forget that players need movement in front of them to play forward otherwise its an aimless punt giving possession back to the opposition too easily.

Allan stood out for me amongst an average bunch. He done what he does. Simple, break up play and one player who did always look to go forward. Not just short either. A great ball through to Richarlison in the first half.

Richarlison man of the match? I think the pundits were just struggling and put on the spot, he had the assist.

Delph? Danny shakes head and will leave it there.

Yes, we benefited from the ridiculous offside but how on earth these refs are employed is beyond me. They really have to start standing up to the players and stop giving these soft penalties, it's the only way it'll ever stop the players looking for penalties all the time.

I'm as fickle a fan as they come but I'm seriously close to jacking it in, I just hate the way the game has gone. Squealing players, crap refs, no tackling allowed and no fans really is a massive turn-off for me.

Still, at least the season is still alive and there is some hope of European football next season. I pray that we make it and that the summer sees some much-needed skill and pace and ambition thrust into the side. COYB

Meanwhile, here in the real world, Everton gain an exceptional win away playing very well despite our known limitations. Fantastic win no matter how the goal went in, a very good performance against a still very good Arsenal team.

European football is possible but this could prove to have been a good season with great prospects for next season. We know now exactly what we have and exactly what we need. We've had a great series of results recently with many players out and forged by hard work and some very good individual performances. If that is the mythical mediocrity, then I accept it for now.

When you know you have won it is so easy. I had read all the fan's comments, mostly about how bad almost everybody was. With this in mind I decided, along with my newly adopted serenity, that I would ONLY try to look for the good points in each player. While that was quite a challenge I was able to see something positve about the whole team.

OH with the exception of Delph, because any player who doesn't know what socks to wear should not be playing for Everton. Mind you I could not really recognise him because I had hardly ever seen him since he signed. Plus when he does play he usually does as much for the opposition as he does for Everton.Oh Dear! I'm getting nasty again.

Back to the game. WE were all so lucky to be able to witness the goal of the season as Richy carefully aimed the ball at the goalie's right leg so it would bounce into the net. A piece of sublime skill. BUT all you folk who saw the game live thought it was lucky. How wrong.

One more thrill filled game with goals (well one) and unending action. The one we did score was wrongly NOT considered as a shot on goal. Oh and a new question from my wife "Is there something wrong with you?" she could not understand why I was not screaming at the TV and threatening both teams and the little old man reffing, well pretending to.

No. Can't think of one.

MOTM? For me, it was Richarlison for the massive amount of work he did covering back down the right-hand side and for his "goal".

Great win, Blues.

Liverpool - WIN
Spurs -WIN
Arsenal - WIN
Man U - DRAW
Chelsea - LOST
City - to be played

Classic Italian style, less possession, defend well and hit them in the break.

We do though need at least 2 box to box midfielders with pace that can carry the ball forward, as well as a right back obviously. Hopefully Carlo has them on his shopping list.

Great victory. If we talk progress, one thing we could point to is that mostly (not completely but mostly), our game management has improved. And on top of that, so has our season management.

I've been repeatedly saying since October that both during the game and the season, it's about staying in the fight. We have mostly done that and are very much in reach of the pre-season target. If anything, due to the nature of how the season has unfolded, we are arguably ahead of it. Even for doubters like me, Champions League is on the table. That won't have been the realistic target, but it is there if we don't choke or simply fall short because of the shortfalls in the squad.

We may not have liked everything we've seen along the way, but that is down to management. Managing the tools at our disposal to get the most out of them. We will add better tools in the summer and be even stronger next season. We have an opportunity here, both on the pitch and on the back of the moral high ground we are currently standing on. Looking down on those like we played last night. League position wise and morally.

It was another drab performance but being hard to beat and nicking a goal or two seems to be working for us away this season.

Great if the Toon bust their hoodoo at our old ground today.

Let's see whose available for Villa in what is a must win.

Plenty of ups and downs to come, in the final weeks of the season, gonna check the gee gees and see if there's any decent races today and try and build a pot with last nights money..

Any one any tips?

Thanks.

I'm delighted and if we can hit a run of form now, who knows what might happen. I just wish Man City away wasn't our final game of the season!

Out of interest, what fairytales have you seen on this thread?

Ancelotti allowed Everton to absorb pressure, delaying substitutions. Even the commentator's sidekick on Hes Goal said Arsenal could be being set up for an Everton counter-attack. On cue, Everton did counter attack. A ball was delivered from midfield to Richarlison in space. He was able to advance into the penalty area to the byeline.

Calvert-Lewin at last done what he is coached to do: he attacked the near post. Richarlison, as coached, drove in a low cross. The Calvert-Lewin run was enough to confuse both the defender and the goalkeeper, resulting in the goal.

The goal was a result of good tactical play and players doing what they are coached to do. From an Everton perspective, the goal was neither lucky nor farcical.

Agreed mate, he had Aubameyang & Lacazette in his back pocket all night..!

As for the game last night, it just proved the vast majority of players are hugely overpaid for so-called entertainment; the game itself was appalling and devoid of any passion or drive. How players can justify their huge wages is a national scandal that needs to be addressed immediately, if we are ever to see decent football again IMO.

Sigurdsson player of the season????!!!!!

I thought nothing would top last night's rubbish but you've just done it, my friend!

Covering a lot of ground is no reason to give Sigurdsson MotM, like some are suggesting, or player of the season!!

An average player has the odd good game. A good player has the odd average game. Just about sums Sigurdsson up...

Defensive mistake by opposition this week = we are shite.

Can't win, even when we do!

It's all bollocks of course but it's about overhauling this inferiority complex that we've had for so long. Listen to knobheads like Mickey Quinn etc. The superiority complex and propaganda machine in full flow, getting others to believe the hype about VVD etc. They win games before they're even played because of the attitude.

We deserved that win. We defended brilliantly, were very organised and coughed up very few chances.

We didn't create much but we created more than they did.

It wasn't a great watch but it's all about points. I'd happily take thirty league games a season like that.
Anyone who says otherwise needs to give their head a wobble.

We're progressing, we still have the terrible performance in us of course, but we're moving the right direction.

Enjoy the weekend, its going good so far!

Remember? When we out-played a good Wenger's Arsenal away? We scored two good goals, including Pienaar running from the half-way line to lob the keeper, and they scored with two massive deflections. Were they claiming they were lucky? No, 'That's football'. Let's just accept a bit of good luck in our favour for a change, eh?

Regarding Delph's socks. Liverpool have been pulled up over the same thing this season. Their all-red socks have appeared to have a white foot on them for some time and it was getting to the stage where it was half the way up their shin. They were eventually pulled by the officials and ordered to cover the white lower part of the sock.

Apparently, what a lot of players are doing, is wearing a white sports sock and the coloured part of the sock is in fact like a sleeve which doesn't actually go over the foot. It's just blue in our case or red in theirs and only goes from the knee to the ankle. God knows why, maybe the socks aren't comfortable and the sports sock helps.

The trouble is luck runs out and a more determined, positive way of playing will be needed to cope and prosper but here we are at the arse end of the season with no sign of such method in sight.

It goes without saying we're all delighted with 3 points but the more forward thinking are right to say it does nothing to hide an obvious fault line which if not addressed will put us back to square one.

I would volunteer to sort it out but I'm busy taking down trees at the bottom of the garden and prepping the ground for the annexe I can't be everywhere.

Other than that I enjoyed Godfrey's tackle, the ball trickling into the Arsenal goal, and Pickford's save.

We beat Arsenal away, looked the more potent attacking force for sustained periods throughout the match and are within striking distance of the top 4.

Maybe you want jam on it too but I'll take that right now.

When fit he is the second player on my team sheet after Godfrey.

I think Tom Davies would have been disappointed to see Gomes selected ahead of him, but we had pretty much our best side on the park. I thought James turned in his worst performance since joining us, and I am far from convinced that we can ever make top 4 with DCL, Richarlison and James being our regular front 3. I hear reports that DCL is one of the quickest players in the squad, well it certainly isn't over 10 to 15 yards, like Vardy is. There is no doubt he has improved and he has become a real predator in the 6 yard box. But otherwise he doesnt contribute much and of late his goals have dried up. Richarlison seems to be on a mission as everytime he receives the ball within 20 yards of goal he doesnt look to pass irrispective of how many defenders he has around him no thoughts other than I am going to try and score. James is a great passer of the ball but has absolutely no pace and very rarely does he go past people with the ball, so even when we do break because of his lack of pace he isn't quick enough to join the attack.

Where ever we finish this season this summer will be one of Carlos most important transfer windows. Our forwards don't score enough goals and added to that neither does our midfield, so both these areas must be addressed. My other concern is Carlo has taken over from Raneiri as the tinker man, we and the players don't know from week to week what system we will be playing or which players will be in which positions. Surely confidence comes from consistency and if we make so many changes each week how can we possibly hope to achieve any consistency.

Thanks for the correction. Can blame it on my hangover as I stayed up until 3 am and then watched the game until 5 am our time here. Not much left in the bottle of double black which we started late afternoon yesterday.

Rolls Royce of a player Eze. We paid 30 odd million for Iwobi and I think Palace paid less than 20 million for him.

If we wanna improve next season, a better all round midfielder than Sigurdsson is key. Put Rodriguez or Digne on set pieces, they can get the goals and assists Sigurdsson currently does. Job done.

‘This was the 200th top-flight meeting between Arsenal and Everton, becoming just the third fixture in top-flight history to have been played on 200 occasions (also Aston Villa v Everton and Liverpool v Everton, both 204).'

"has he asked for a cap on his own wages"

I think a part of me has always disliked the RS and other jammy teams who never seem to recognize the insane luck they've enjoyed on their way to triumph. When we've enjoyed a similar vein of luck like here it just feels churlish or wrong to me to behave like they would. Acknowledging luck isn't disloyalty IMV either.
I think the two Barrys, Rathbone and Williams, and Ernie Baywood had the most incisive comments here. Having a team that gets lucky once in a while would be a fine new experience for all of us Evertonians would it not?

Which games in your opinion has Holgate been better than Godfrey?

Big summer needed for transfers. We need some genuine top class wingers, who can beat a man either way (some lone like a mahrez - not a zaha) and have end product and goal threat.

Then a Modric type playmaker from midfield, someone who can make us keep possession better against the likes of city.

Striker back up and a beast of a right back.
Over to you brands...

It seems a peculiar way to celebrate a goal.

And Jon Moss. And Klopp.

We play well and draw = Whinge

We put in a mediocre performance, break a 25 year old hoodoo and win = Whinge

Confidence affects performance and our run of results leading up to yesterday undoubtedly had an impact on the squad. Throw in the ESL bollocks from earlier in the week and how that must have affected non-Big Six players mentally.

Let's take the win and the confidence it should give us and move on.

We seem determined to lick our wounds even when there aren't any! I swear there's a section of Everton support that would find fault even if we consistently won silverware. Heaven forbid that we fortuitously won a cup final...

I only managed to catch the first half last night, but he was better in the first half.

There were 3 occasions in the first half that stood out for me, when Allan lost the ball and Holgate immediately picked it up, a cut back from out wide that Holgate read and an early cross in the box that Holgate read. All 3 times Holgate was reading the game well, whereas Godfrey, at the moment, relies on his physical ability. I think they compliment each other very well and, if we sign Aaron's, we could have a solid defence for the next 5 years.

I assume he brought Delph on to play out his season as the little he did must have caused some season or career-ending strain.

Being from a Railway family I have always read books on Railways and in the Oldham area is a place called Delph and the local train was called the Delph Donkey, how much foresight did the people of East Lancashire have in marrying the two words?

All the remaining games are winnable so you never know.

Performance level wise it was more akin to the Brighton game than the Spurs one. The positives had to be :

Pickford, Coleman, Godfrey and Holgate. Holgate in particular deserves credit for the manner in which he performed given the Spurs debacle. Not many had him in the starting 11 yesterday.

Doucoure is a big loss as he adds much needed energy and legs to an otherwise pedestrian midfield.

6 games to go and all to play for!

Over the last 25 years, we have seen versions of attractive, losing football or unattractive losing football, resulting in failure for 25 years. I don't care to watch Everton falling short year on year any more, so I am willing to live with this until we can strengthen further in the summer.

My take is this: If you are not going to win anything playing anti-football (and we're not)... Why the fuck would you even contemplate playing it? Is it because he thinks it will get us a couple of places higher? Are people really prepared to trade proper footy to finish top six... Really?

The fact that some people think we have to play this way disturbs me. It's total bollocks. We will play inferior opposition for at least two-thirds of our games and we still won't have the courage to go toe to toe with them. Who can say we wouldn't have been finishing top four if we had shown the courage to look to win games? There will never be a better opportunity to gate-crash the party.

The only consolation I feel after watching that hideous excuse for football last night is that we won ugly as opposed to losing ugly... but I won't lose sight of the fact that we were indeed fucken ugly. It's meant to be entertainment. That's why so many millions of people part with their money to go and watch.

If this was a one-off or the 2nd/3rd time we had won like this, we would take the ugly win and have celebrated through the night. But it's not is it? This is who we have become.

We are Carlo Ancelotti's Everton and we are damned unpretty.

Firstly, that was never a penalty. Whoever that Arsenal player was, he 100% embellished the most minimum of contact and the cheating bastard went down trying to manufacture a penalty where one didn't exist.

After that con-show and display of shitting on sport entirely, the refs actually exacted justice when they had an opportunity to do so with VAR. I don't care at all that the VAR situation was a hair's length offside. It negated a terrible, terrible decision on the penalty and made the game stand where it should have: 0-0.

I love soccer / footy. But the cheating divers really, really get under my skin and they frankly ruin the game.

We deserved that win, and Arsenal didn't. 1-0.

We all loved the Everton of August and September last year but the frailties of that team, with its swashbuckling approach, were soon sussed and exploited and we then nosedived down the table.

Ancelotti is being pragmatic. He's personally been the reason why we attracted the likes of James and he knows that European football next season will help him recruit even better quality over the Summer.

In the corresponding fixture in 2005 we got twatted 7-0. We went on to finish 4th but with negative goal difference. How does that sit within the ‘purity test' that some on here seem so desperate to apply? Presumably you were all too embarrassed to be turn up for the Villarreal match later that Summer.

Personally I don't want Champions League football for us next season. Europa League qualification and a strengthened squad are the next stages in our evolution. Then we'll be in a position to consistently play more entertaining football.

But apparently some on here think Richarlison is a shadow of his former self – despite being yesterday's MotM – and that we were the poorer team – despite Kevin Campbell saying that he thought we deserved to win. I'll take the latter's opinion, and those of Ancelotti, over you lot. Try a course of Certraline or maybe some long walks in the park!

What's the point in playing in a fantastic match every week, but losing 5-4? Well done Everton, played well but lost a great game. Fuck that, I've yet to see any records with the words "Lost but was an entertaining game", or "Won but was ugly" next to the result.

In the early years of the Moyes regime, we played terrible, turgid football. But it was necessary and based on the players we had. Most of us understood what was needed even if we didn't like what we were watching. We were more interested in the result in the early days and years.

As time went on we started to expect more and rightfully so. Moyes failed to break the glass ceiling and people rightfully got frustrated with him.

Now Ancelotti is not going to get or be here for 11 years. But for me, he gets more than 15 months to sort out a shit show that he inherited. He may have pedigree but isn't a magician with a magic wand. I guess I'm an apologist in some eyes. I call it realism.

If in 12 - 18 months we are still only focusing on results then yes, we question. Right now, and at this stage of this season, we are now in the results business of the business end of the season.

Only negative if the Arsenal fans are determined to get Kronke out, who will likely take ever, who can afford them - Usmanov, our behind the scenes benefactor. We need his £30m starters for naming rights ++++ £m for many other things. Hope Kronke stays !

Thats plenty for me.

Coming from a fan who doesnt miss a game home and away backs my thoughts on it.

Danny O

Spot on

Every time

I, for one, sincerely hope this is not the level of display that we accept as the zenith because the result is acceptable, but a step on the journey to a lot more entertaining and prolific style. There is more to the game than being an out and out attacking team in the same way as there must be more than just being somebody difficult to score against.

I can remember the promised land, as distant as it seems now, when the School of Science was more than something commentators use as a sly dig.

Surely though you can see how yesterday represents progress?

If two years ago we'd been told that Ancelotti would be our manager and that we'd beat the Shite, Spurs and the Arse away from home in one season and still have a chance of CL football, I'm pretty certain that 99.9% of Blues would've excitedly said “yes”.

That's exactly where we are, mate.

Tony, I realise the position Everton were in when Carlo took over, especially the very weak midfield, I also understand the injuries week after week that have stalled the progress and I think we will get better, with better players coming in, but Tony, there have been plenty of games, especially at home, when I have scratched my head and wondered what is Carlo doing, he gets wins away which gets you on your feet and thinking Yis!!, then the next week he perplexes you, by changing the team and the tactics which deflates you and brings you back to earth. I just hope that he eventually gets it right and we see a formation and a team we can understand and appreciate, give us some pride going to the game knowing and expecting we will win with style. I'm like every Bluenose I get behind the team before every game wanting the best for us, but it's been a long time coming Tony, and I watch each game and say it as I see it, just my opinion.

But we have a chance to get into a position where we can attract better players and where we can wash away our underlying fear of success. Let's just get to that point. If we can do that over the coming games while playing well, then that will be great. If we do it while playing horrible, scruffy stuff, then still great.

But I'll be fully joining the chorus of complaint if we carry on playing football which betrays our principles into next season. I think most of us will.

By the way, you're never a miserable bastard. You're an anchor of sanity on here while many others, me very much included, veer all over the place.

The way we've been for so long, mediocre at winning, is the thing to be changed with top priority. If that requires defensive football, so be it. But once we get into the habit of winning more frequently, then it's more likely that attractive attacking football will become more prevalent.

No Evertonian will, in reality, put attractive football at a higher priority than winning. It's the same with every football supporter. If we win frequently enough, Evertonians will tolerate, if not wholly accept, defensive football.

What have we found out? We are more difficult to beat especially playing the top teams than we have been for a long time. We don't have the depth of squad currently to consistently challenge.. We don't have enough creativity both in midfield and up front to despatch the poorer sides.

I accept the criticism that our football has been pretty dull on occasions but the manager has to play the hand he is dealt and largely I think Ancelotti is getting a fair amount out of this squad.

Judge him at the end of next season when as he has indicated he has had the opportunity to overhaul this squad.

Mentioning teams like Wigan Blackpool and Bournemouth is not just piss weak...It degrades the debate.

And I don't get this argument that its better to win ugly than lose 5-4 Why does it have to be either/or ? Why is it automatically assumed that we wouldnt have won 2/3-0 if we hadnt gone for what is proving to be a very ordinary Arsenal side ?

Instead of focusing on Minnow clubs who "Gave it a go" Why are we not focusing on the fact that virually every season the prizes go to the teams who go out to win their
games.

I don't wont accept this "look at how much we have improved against the bigger clubs" claim.
Whilst I can take satisfaction (rather than joy) from last nights result and while I felt overwhelming relief that we finally threw the Anfield monkey off our back. I am also acutely aware that the long awaited results against these teams were not achieved by us coming up to the level that had kept them among the top five for all those years.

The clubs vying for CL places all seem hellbent on throwing it away. Time and again we have been presented with Chances to storm the Bastile. We just havent done it..

Rather than praise Carlos results when shutting up shop. should we not be asking where we would have been if we had gone for it.

A team playing spoiling negative tactics will always be open to the question "what might have been ?"

Us breaking the repeated cycle of no wins away to top teams is void.
The manner of victory negates the victories gained.

,"I am also acutely aware that the long awaited results against these teams were not achieved by us coming up to the level that had kept them among the top five for all those years."

Us breaking the repeated cycle of no wins away to top teams is void.
The manner of victory negates the victories gained.

,,,1,16:38:19,,213.205.242.229,ok,23848,04/24/2021 16:38:19,Tomrichards2@outlook.com,reader,,,no 1150227,40723,toffeeweb,24/04/2021,Oliver Molloy,info@cooldiscsmusic.com,"Changed my mind having watched again.
Richarlison knew exactly what he was doing when he hit the ball directly at Leno's inside left leg, never a fluke, he does it all the time in training apparently !
Maradona used to play one two's off defenders shins !

Nobody said the victories were null and void. Or that they were not very welcome indeed.

I'm hoping somebody would come on with an intelligent response to the claim that their demise does not signal our "improvement"

They did.
Me,"Nobody said the victories were null and void."

They did.
Me,,,1,16:57:42,,213.205.242.229,ok,23848,04/24/2021 16:57:42,Tomrichards2@outlook.com,reader,,,no 1150230,40723,toffeeweb,24/04/2021,Tony Hill,ailsehill175@icloud.com,"Darren @265, I think that is very fair comment about our lack of boldness this season and where we might have been, but it really is the winning that matters now.

If you're saying that our lack of style makes it less likely that we will get 4th, well that could also be true.

But surely you would be delighted if we had 6 crappy performances and did get 4th?

Then we can worry about the aesthetics. I agree with you, though, that 6 lovely performances and 4th would be preferable - wouldn't everyone think that?

He would do his nut if we got 4th.
His opinion of Ancelotti is a point more important than that 😁

If Carlo lands a CL place. He and his acolytes will be able to point to his achievement and claim the ends justifies the means. They will argue the spoiling tactics did the trick.... but will it work both ways ? Is Carlo in a never ending no lose situation ?

If he fails because he hasnt been bold enough...Will he get the blame ?

a person assisting a priest in a religious service or procession.

Nomine padre

I have a feeling that we're going to do it and then we can all rejoice and look forward to the football we both delight in.

Genuine question.

If Carlo wins a CL place. What will you point out?

That makes the assumption that he hasn't been bold enough.

The reality is our home form ( like many other teams ) has been something awful and this is what has really cost us in the quest for CL.
Coming into the three games against Brighton, Palace and Spurs we still had a small chance, but we blew it in my opinion and if you look at the table now those dropped points especially against the latter two we would still be in there, but not now.

There is no doubt in this crazy season Everton have had opportunities to move up the table and failed to take them.
Ancelotti has made mistakes, but ultimately the players on the pitch have failed to do the business too many times.
I still have faith that Ancelotti will make us better, both in playing style and points tally with the addition of new players next season.
COYB.

When Carlo was appointed, it wasn't for his reputation for expansive flowing football, it was for his CV as one of the winningest of European coaches. As such, he gets the job done using the tools at his disposal - which were pretty damn blunt when he arrived.

Turning round a football club in the state we were in is a huge job. His first recruitments have been good and we are now harder to beat. Presently our attackers aren't good enough to win the games we should be winning. But hopefully this is just the start of a long journey and I think we will be a lot different in two years. We need to be patient.

Dave Abrahams, you are neither old or miserable. You simply do what all of us do on here, provide very knowledgeable opinion and view points.

Everything to go for - we mustn't talk ourselves out of it.

But I don't think we can suddenly start judging ourselves on Champion's League qualification as that was not the target at the beginning of the season.

Believe, yes, but I'm not changing my goal posts now to fit my argument. Given where we were at the start of the season with the squad available, European football was a reasonable target. Champions League an outside chance if you fancied a punt.

Some may now latch onto that and shift their goal posts to criticise. Maybe they fear we could very well achieve our actual realistic target. And that doesn't fit the narrative.

What holds us back is, to borrow a phrase, our poverty of expectation.

What's up with our game in hand? Neither us nor Villa were in Europe and we've both been cup free for a while. So there aren't any variables that complicate scheduling the game. And yet the season ends within a month and it's never been arranged. Makes me wonder if they'll drop it on us the day before the City game or something.

Teams that beat us ‘6-9 times out of 10 ' have beat us 3 times out of 9

They will if we are challenging for 4th.
Status quo and all that

Take the points from those and we are looking good. Plus Wolves at home. City on the last day; hopefully by then they are Champions and playing with their slippers on.

Who have we played 9 times this season?

Missed those games

"Leicester wouldn't beat us 6 - 9 times out of 10."

Are you being deliberately obtuse or does the concept of a "range" cause your skull to implode?

@Michael Kenrick, Keep up the good work dude. I like to read your game reports as they are honest.

Can you elaborate as I'm evidently not understanding your post either. Graham seems to have simply added up the games we played against the teams you mentioned and pointed out that we lost only a third of those games as opposed to 6-9 out of 10. You're dismissing him as we haven't played a single team 9 times. Rob argues specifically that we wouldn't lose to Leicester 6-9 times out of 10. But you also dismiss his point as being obtuse. So if we are not talking about a trend over 10 games against the specific teams you mentioned, and we aren't talking cumulatively about 10 games against them, then what exactly does your 6-9 represent?

The hot start and some truly rare away form has me suspecting we could have done a little better than that, but it is what it is. It feels for once as if the steps we've taken this season have been incremental and sustainable, if perhaps slower progress than some would like. For the first time in a while though it feels as if there's a platform, something to build on if the club wants to.
The retention of Brands, and the inevitable sale of Moise Kean should hopefully give us continuity and some funds in the market. The next season really needs to represent further tangible progress on where we are now; it is critical for us as a club if we've any hope of keeping touch with this self appointed elite.
Moyes still gets credit here or there on here for "stabilising" us. It's no exaggeration to say that Ancelotti has very much done the same, and in a much shorter and more successful manner. He certainly deserves our support to take the club to the next level moving forward, and he has mine.

We look like a football team again, albeit a slow and sometimes frustratingly error prone one. That's much more than Silva, Allardyce or the last six months of Koeman managed to achieve. Restoring competence to Everton didn't come cheap but it has returned,. For once it is no longer beyond my imagination to see a future where Everton victories at Anfield, the Emirates and beyond become almost regular occurrences.
We've seen a pandemic,a break away super league, and one of the biggest political supporters of our new stadium charged with corruption - and yet we're still making progress. If the wind ever hits our sails how far could this club go?

The wind must eventually blow our way right? Until it does I actually feel at ease with things right now at Everton. This is an unusual and somewhat odd feeling, but I'm very much enjoying it. As Max Headroom once said, catch the wave.

It's the age old hypothetical scenario of a team playing 10 games against another with each match ending in a result.

In this case the list is those going for cl places and my prediction on the form shown is the range of losses would be 9 against City with 6 against Leicester.

Aggregating results across all the teams this year entirely misses the point a common illness in this parish

Man C. L
Man U LD
RS. DW
Leicester WD
Chelsea. WL

My pleasure

What part of the hypothesis of 10 games matching this seasons Everton against those mentioned is confusing you?

You seem slower of mind than usual have a lie down and try again tomorrow

This season is 33%

Is that confusing you?

Oh! I seem to have upset you with truth. so sorry 😄

Villa ( home and away ) - win and draw
Sheffield United - win
West Ham - lose
Woves - win
Man City - lose

That would give us 10 points making 62...Europa League here we come !

Answer Grahams question.

I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?

You have a hypothesis when we play a side 10 times in a season?

Did you not realise they have canned the Super League 😂

If so, what previous performances is that prediction based on? and why that selection of past performances?

At last!!

Thank god the penny dropped - I was losing the will to live.

Just ask a responsible adult the next time you have difficulty with a common hypothesis which obviously rules out Rob and Thomas - oh get in.

Hypothetically.

Travel ban still on

"Yes sir. That would count as disorderly conduct."

"What about if I were just to think it?"

"No sir. You can think whatever you like."

"In that case, I think you're a cunt."

Ok I'll go with your hypothesis. Let's assume we play the five sides you say 10 times in a season, most importantly for this discussion this season.

What evidence do we have to support your 60-90% losing range.

Well after 9 out of 60 games we have 33%.

Of course that proves nothing because there would be 51 games to go and it could go either way.

But of course in the real world we play each team twice and this season you are dead wrong.

That's no offence against you Graham, by the way.

That's very nearly a good point.

The obvious answer is to do what most do and look at each team over the season against ALL opposition and get a comprehensive gauge to eradicate anomalies.

I don't think anyone can argue with the league table and all mentioned bar the RS are above us. Leicester seem to be the team that has caused such angst but not only are they above us they are cup finalists and play great togger.

As mentioned the RS are the exception that proves the rule and anyone thinking we would come out top in a 10 game series against them has quite severe issues

The two wind up chaps are hopeless to be honest.

Hypothesis 6 - 9 times out of 10, Leicester have beaten Everton.

I did but I'm thinking of doing a part ex for a fishing trawler they're leaping in and banging their own heads in an effort to kill themselves, Ooo they'll kick off now

You cant post against me because I said you will kick off and I will be proved right

As I said. Hopeless

So was #292 just a wind up and not serious, Barry?! Just a load of bollocks? But something that you're still trying to defend?!

Darren to the rescue to explain it all!

You just proved your translation wrong

Go to bed 😄

But we weren't talking about all opposition. You specifically mentioned five sides. Your hypothesis is flawed. The reason they are above us is not our performances against the better sides but our inability to beat inferior sides at home.

Leicester btw we beat away easily and drew with at home. But they are definitely a more attractive side.

I do agree currently we wouldn't come out in top over a 10-game series against the RS but I would argue it would look better than the last 10.

If you had read the posts – 350 in particular – you would have saved yourself asking such a bizarre set of questions. Or are you "codding"?

This is so easy.

Barry looks like he is contemplating taking my request up.

I disagree. The RS are floundering. If we played them 10 times now I'd say we'd win at least six on the Rathbone scale.

You asked what the criteria was for my claim you wanted to talk only about our results against clubs cited which is flawed because, if that was the be-all and end-all, we would be above Leicester – and you'll never guess what??

Moving the goalposts now. Leicester have been a better side than us this year, no doubt. But it doesn't alter the fact the reason we are not above them is our inability to beat inferior sides at Goodison.

Your original point was that five sides were going to beat us ‘60-90%' That's just not true this season

Ha! You seem to be continually guessing about most things in life – although maybe you're just fantasising again...

Collared

" Leicester have been a better side than us this season, no doubt."

And the truth shall set you free.

Now is it too much of a stretch to imagine Leicester having the upper hand in a 10-game series or would you like to backtrack in case your buddies think you have just blown them out of the water?

That wasn't you back in January, was it?

Evidential proof ain't your bag. Two games, one win, one draw. So no, they won't beat us 60-90% of the time.

Based on the current league positions, style of football of each team, PLUS this season's results, I would give a lower range (for Leicester wins), whilst acknowledging that they currently play a better brand of football than us.

But that is just my opinion. I'm not certain it qualifies as a hypothesis, except perhaps in the very loosest sense, and I would be careful of labelling others as 'obtuse' in order to try and make your point.

The truth.

You still don't grasp how a "hypothesis" garnered from a full season's evidence works. But at least you concede the overarching point that they are better than us so only 3 more teams to add for Champions League places – care to name them?

"Barry, you are extrapolating"

And?? That's all that's available till the season ends.

Wakey wakey

Damn it! I think the other Barry's hypothesis has greater merit (sigh!)

You are in proper retreat mode. I've never argued we could get a Champions League place. There are imo six sides better than us this season.

But of course we get back to what the discussion was. You claimed, a hypothesis you liked to call it, that five sides would beat us 60-90% of the time. I say that is bollocks based on this season's results. Because we have been better against the better sides as opposed to the poorer sides this season.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It seems you're ultimate point is that we won't finish in the top four. But rather than coming up with your controversial hypothesis to make your case, you could have just used the actual league table as evidence.

#322 "I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?"

So you've moved from what seemed to be a certain statement to a hypothesis.

Leicester get a lot of comment because they won the league a few years ago, when the usual dominating clubs were having a shit season. Apart from that league win, they've been midtable, on a par with us. And when we've played them, the spoils have been broadly equal, tilted slightly towards us.

So really, it's difficult to grap why some on here seem to get excited about them. If you're gonna get excited about them, logically you should also get excited about us. But I suppose, to some, the grass is always greener.......

Leicester are having a relatively good season this season, as are we. But that's as far as it goes. Beyond that, why the fuck would anyone get excited about them, unless you are from Leicester and the novelty of being in the Premier League is yet to wear off?

"I've never argued we could get a Champions League place."

I never said you did.

But well done for admitting such nonsense was "off discussion"; furthermore, it is your prerogative to ignore the bigger picture of league positions etc and warm yourself with the results of a couple of games. But it does nothing to address the 10-game hypothesis – not that it matters because you concede there are 6 teams better than us.

And as my point was Top 4 talk was delusional, I really don't know why you and your pals have got so irked.

Arsenal 6/6 points.
Spurs 4/6 points.
Liverpool 4/6 points.
Leicester 4/6 points.
Chelsea 3/6 points.
Man Utd 1/6 points, but a creditable draw away from home.

Still West Ham and Man City to play, but I'd fancy us to beat West Ham. Nobody, but nobody could fancy themselves to beat Man City, but it all depends on the day, just as Leeds found to their utmost astonishment! You'd expect Man City to beat any team 60 - 90% of the time.

The names of the clubs mentioned (bar the rs) might have been a clue - sorry it was too difficult for you

"So you've moved from what seemed to be a certain statement to a hypothesis."

You mean like in a hypothesis awaiting testing?

You are such a befuddled individual

Fuck me there's deflection and there's deflection mate.

Forget all the noise you've created. We were discussing one point.

We would lose to five sides 60-90% of the time.

This seasons results don't bear you out.

That's all there is I'm afraid.

EXACTLY! A hypothesis is not a statement of certainty - you set it up to be tested; you don't necessarily believe in it. Unlike your statement of certainty in #292

You've got it at last!

Whatever we're praising the lord for? Hic, Hic!

As I said if you want to ignore league positions, style of play etc to draw a conclusion about a hypothetical 10 game series that's up to you.

Sure, you have hung yourself with your own petard by admitting Leicester are better than us meaning in a 10 game series they would win the majority (min 6) but that's no reason to get annoyed. Just admit you're wrong - no biggie

I called it a hypothesis and you used the word "seemed" to assert definitive fact - you seem so confused.

Hypothetical League

This BBC report was from November 2018, about the time that covert discussions have been held - all the huff and puff of the fans and institutions would seem to be wasting their energy - as this is happening - I would guess before Everton manage to be in a position to beat those sides above them 6-9 times out of 10. Mind you I think we have beaten Leicester about 6 times out of the last 10 Premier League meetings.

This is really boring, because I said Leicester are a better side than us this season doesn't mean they win 60% of the games.

You realise there are three outcomes to a game? They have won 0% this season.

Let's just face it you're hypothesis is just not supported by any evidence

A hypothesis cannot become "certain" till tested what you have done is ignore my factual descriptor and substituted your own emotive and rather confused mumblings, This is known as "projection" (nothing to do with the cinema - I add this because of your confusion issues)

it is and I've explained it to you several times you just choose to ignore it

Barry #322 "I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?"

You really don't get it, do you!

Encouraging to see you drop your fact vs hypothesis nonsense but posting 2 excellent quotes from me does nothing to address your relentless appearance as a very befuddled individual.

I do hope you're ok

Try looking at the league table and take an educated view of performances over the season to date.

Oops! did I use the word "educated" to you?

You're post #292 your statement of certainty.

Your post #322 you start to wobble - that's only a hypothesis.

There for all to see!!

Everton are not as good over a season as those sides currently above us? Everton are better than those teams below them?

Weirdly Everton's results against the teams above us have probably helped us to stave off being in a relegation dogfight, whilst the results against the teams below us have prevented us from cementing a place in the Champions League.

Hypothetically, I've got a headache and I'm going to take a placebo Anadin to nullify it.

You saying "certainty" does not negate the fact I specifically identified the idea as a hypothesis - sorry, about your continued confusion

Then at #322 you shifted to hypothesis (a guess, as Stan says).

Which of that is not true?

I see you are still trying to belittle others:

Oops! did I use the word "educated" to you?

It's not a good look.

The first was a hypothetical statement can you guess why hypothetical is important in this context?

Concentrate really hard and let's see if we can sort your confusion out once and for all - you can do this, champ

You maintain that first post at #292 was a hypothetical statement?! Here it is for all to see:
"...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea)..."

"...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would DEFINITELY beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea)..."

Oops! the difference between a definitive and hypothetical statement right there<./p>

Casting pearls before swine.

Didn't we win six in a row during Moyes's first full season? We also started this season with 7 wins in a row in all competitions, I think? So we could finish how we started.

Prior to today, we'd had a poor run: 6 or 7 on the bounce isn't totally outrageous? For my own sanity, I won't get my hopes up but, as you say, we can dream... right?

What you're saying is that you will happily take the points, but you find the performance unacceptable?

Lol. You are fucking priceless, lad.

Should Chelsea finish outside the Top 4, but win the Champions League, then just the Top 3 and Chelsea will enter the Champions League.

5th team will enter the Europa League, then we have the dreaded teams finishing 6th and 7th, entering the new competition, which features 32 teams playing in group stages. When they get down to the last 16, they will then face teams that finished 3rd in the Europa League group stages.

I am sure I also read some teams losing in the Champions League qualifiers either drop into this as well or could be the Europa League.

Either way, the new competition sounds even worse than the Europa League, with all games having a 3:30 pm kick-off on a Thursday.

Onwards Blues.

Lyndon has a tread going that has been taken over by Philistines who don't seem to think performances count.

You'll be far more at home there.

Let's see how much it counts when the faithful return to the Old Lady, when the boos are ringing around the place, You'll still be telling everyone it's not as bad as it looks.

What happens if Man Utd win the Europa League or does that only get you entry if you don't otherwise qualify for the Champions League?

So two teams could qualify by being winners of each of the competitions but won't if they finish in the Top 4. Aawww, this is that co-efficient thingy, isn't it? Anyone like to guess who will finish 5th and not get in and who will finish 5th and qualify?

"It's just one of them songs you hear now & then..."

As it happens, the Everton games that I've watched have all seen Everton playing very well at times. Remember also that what you say is your very biased opinion, that's all... it isn't fact. Everton have to compromise at this stage between the game that resides in your imagination and the real game where results are everything. If you don't like what you see then stop watching.

If Man Utd win the Europa League and finish in the Top 4, they will go straight into the Champions League group stage, along with the other 3 English teams finishing in the Top 4.

If they fail to finish in the Top 4 but win the Europa League, they will then go into the Champions League qualifiers.

It gets easier to work out, if Chelsea do not win the Champions League, with the possibility of Chelsea not getting a Top 4 spot.

Should Liverpool nick 4th spot and Chelsea win the Champions League but finish 5th, it will be interesting to see if our neighbours, manage to get the rules changed again to allow them in the Champioms League.

If we end up in 8th place or miss out on a European spot due to the European coefficient process etc, then it will have all been for nought and we will not have taken note of the old maxim: "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

As Darren alludes to, a large part of the Goodison gallery will be most unforgiving if the lack of adventure and poor home results continue when the gates open next season.

I think, due to the circumstances of Covid and a few injuries at crucial times, Carlo will get a pass, whatever happens in the remainder of this season. But, from August onwards, given that life will slowly return to some form of normality, the fans will not be slow in giving their verdicts if the fayre on offer is a repetition of most of what we've seen this last 9 months.

Who's to say that we "would" have ended up with the same or a better points total playing with a bit more adventure? Do you feel that the Everton coaching staff have some Idea of what they are doing, perhaps even better than us fans?

I think everyone wants to see more adventure. That's not in question.

But to do so when you have defenders such as Michael Keane ends up being suicidal. So you play to their strength. Which for a lot of this squad remains sitting deep for a lot of matches. I'm not picking on Keane, but he's improved because that suits him. Play more adventurous and both he and the team get exposed and exploited.

Despite the good additions last year, we still need to overhaul this squad before we can be more adventurous on a consistent basis rather than just seeing glimpses of it when the right players are fit.

When you look and see that only Man Utd out of the elite have taken more than three points from Everton, with only Man City to come, I would say Everton have made progress, being the next team, behind Man City, to win most away games.

It is easy to have a go at our style of play, but results are what matters now, until the end of the season.

We can all blame injuries as an excuse but, since the Goodison derby, when we were on a run of 7 games unbeaten, that's when the team started to get disrupted: we had the Richarlison ban, then we had both Coleman and Digne out at the same time, with Mina in and out of the team, then we had Allan out, James, followed by Pickford and Olsen, then Doucouré, followed by Calvert-Lewin.

Others have been out injured but the fact is, we have never had our strongest 11 since Day 7 of the Premier League; the squad is simply not good enough but we have to go with what we have at the moment, grinding out results.

We need luck on the injury front next season, and some more additions.

It is not an excuse to bring injuries into the fold, but it does not help when players coming in are nowhere near the standard of those out.

We would all love Everton to play free-flowing football; hopefully, we might get to see that next season.

Like I have said before about Carlo, there is only so much he can do with the current squad of players we have.

People think Carlo can get this current squad as world beaters but it will take a few more transfer windows before we can mount a challenge and play the style of football we all want.

After all, you put Lewis Hamilton in a Grand Prix driving a Lada and, for all Hamilton's skill and knowledge, he will not win a Grand Prix if he does not have the tools to hand.

With this squad, it wasn't sustainable, especially once injuries set in.

No excuses, just realities. This season we have a very good first 11 - 14, but a thin squad. We've had to adapt and adjust. Most important, stay in the fight. And we still are.

I haven't suggested that Carlo doesn't know what he is doing and would never suggest that I knew better than a professional but, speaking purely from a spectator's point of view, I'd like to see a bit more verve going forward and a few more chances created.

I will concede that Carlo does appear to be making us more of a team overall which is something we haven't been since David Moyes left but we are some way short of being a good side, despite being well-placed in the table.

Condensed timescale, as Carlo will not get or through choice be here for 11 years.

The parallels and my take on the Moyes years. We understood and tolerated safety first football in the early years as it is what was needed whilst the shite squad inherited was sorted out.

The frustration grew as we improved the calibre of player and squad yet continued to play safety first and talk down our chances.

If in 12 to 18 months time we are still playing safety first with an improved team / squad, then yes, the manager gets both barrels. But right now I believe he is still trying to sort out a shit show that he inherited.

Like I say, parallels, just on a different time scale.

Moreover his team selections seem to be 'out of the hat' with no two games unchanged even after a win. And his substitutions are a joke in that they are usually the wrong call and the youngsters he puts on the bench know they have absolutely no chance of getting even the last few minutes..

To me he has proved to be another flop chosen by the moneybags owners based on what he achieved donkeys years ago. Nonetheless, he will be here for years, still promising but not delivering. Money down the drain !

Beat Liverpool away (first time for 12 years)
Beat Spurs away (first time in 22 years)
Beat Arsenal away (first time in 26 years)

Those three bogies put to bed in one season - by non other than Carlo with a large number of the players he inherited and the help of what I consider the value for money players he was responsible for bringing in.

According to the way I think that is a significant improvement on Smith, Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Silva and Sam.

I couldn't agree more, also Rob and Martin. Let's get together as Blues and stop the moaning.

Incorrect, in your opinion we would have been. I was for him being given the position but what may have happened if he had is pure conjecture.

That's the first step to recovery Dazza! Well done, and hopefully we'll soon be able to only read your observations on the club rather than the legions of fans you take exception to on account of your perception of their opinion.

Lol I was thinking the same thing

While many of the people who are happy clapping Carlo's anti football were calling for Fat sam (we can see you sneaking out). I was calling long and hard for Unsworth to be kept on instead. I would rather the ta lady got in before Sam

Years later Carlo sycophants like Kinsella. Alexander Still, to this day, come back and remind me that I wanted Unsworth as if the alternative was a better choice ??

Now you tell me I'm a fan of Big Sam ?

What joy...In their relentless attempts to appologise for Carlo's anti football.. The happy clappers have finally chased themselves up their own arses.

The lengths people will go to to defend this piss taking excuse fr football never ceases to amaze me. We now have people calling the knowledgeable Goodison crowd "Parasites"...

Stick half of these Carlo apologists on a footy pitch and they would be asking which way they kick ...or where the horses are.

The only positive thing I can say about Sam. Is that his football was marginally less ugly than Carlo`s......Yeah I know. He`s Italian and he used to win stuff

I did - I put a post up on ToffeeWeb calling for it. It met with great disapproval from many ToffeeWebbers. I reckon we were going down at that time and I still think we would have if he hadn't been brought in.

No apologies for it then or now - I called it as I saw it.

After Allardyce had got us in to a safe position he still carried on playing the ultra defensive position instead of trying to prove, what he had always claimed, that he was a great manager who hadn't been given the chance to prove it.

Darren though, is talking about someone else, not Big Sam.

Personally, I would have been content to have stuck with Unsworth for a while longer. But at least now we have the right fit for Everton in Ancelotti.

As a so called happy clapper, and not a new happy clapper but have been one since I walked into Goodison in 1956. How could you not be a happy clapper, following a truly great club like Everton, so I wear that badge with pleasure. Have I enjoyed every manager and every team since then definitely not, in fact I think there are way more negatives than positives on that score. I hear people pushing for Unsworth or Ferguson to be given the job, but both have admitted they were not ready and both are delighted with the appointment of Ancelotti, maybe they have also joined the happy clappers. Have I been frustrated by some of Ancelottis tactics absolutely and I have said I hope this summer we can sign players that will allow us to play more front foot football.

But there is a chance that Carlo isn't the coach he used to be when winning all the titles he has won. We have seen other managers who have been very successful but take on jobs later in life that they couldnt produce the same magic as they had done before. Capello with England and Van Gaal with Man Utd and of late Mourhino is not producing the results he once did. So I readily accept that this may happen with Carlo, but surely we have to give him a little longer than a year. Lets remember Howard if a lot of Evertonians had there way would not have been in charge for the Oxford game that changed his and Evertons fortunes around. So I suggest that the critics give it till the end of next season before calling for his head..
I would just hope that if we lose him our only alternatives aren't Unsworth or Ferguson, as if they had any ambition they would be managing in their own right but I suspect neither are brave enough or good enough.

He was just a stop-gap at Goodison as was Unsworth although Unsy would probably do well as an assistant for some years like Arteta was at City.

All of a sudden Moyes is being heralded after a good season at West Ham but he is still the same Moyes who flopped at Manure with everything at his disposal.

Sometimes you can get lucky with the squad you inherit and so far a lot of what Ancellotti came into is still around and I think is a problem which needs to be addressed soon.

As far as Sam is concerned - Sam is Sam - you get what it says on the can. What I will say is that the bloke who had already put a fortune into the club thought that Sam was the man to prevent that fortune going down the gurgler and he backed his own judgement by bringing him in despite the aversion of most fans.

Whether or not David Unsworth could have obtained the same result is hypothetical. I suspect Moshiri felt it was the best investment he had made at the end of the season when we finished in eighth spot.

Stan # 517 and Dennis # 518 - in the same position what would you have done if it was your dough?

Brian # 519 - you have 5 years head start on me. We are among the lucky ones who saw the great 63 team. You and I hold very similar views on Carlo. I hope he leads the team out onto the turf at the New Stadium in 3 years time. I like the way he conducts himself.

I think Moshiri's got it about right now. Ancelotti is a wise old head, a safe pair of hands who offers the hope of progression over time, even if he may not achieve the heights he's previously attained. Ideal for an owner in Moshiri's position, a lot of money squandered & a big commitment to a new stadium. I can't help but wonder were we might be if Moshiri could have nabbed him sooner, instead of appointing Silva, or even better instead of Koeman. However, I suppose it's all about timing.

I acknowledge too that SA was the "go to man" if your side was struggling and needed saving from relegation. That was his reputation and his proud boast that he had "never been relegated" as a manager.
Based on that - he was selected to replace Koeman.
As others have said, we can all speculate about what results might (or might not) have been achieved by the team / squad, at any given time, under different leadeship.
Unfortunately, of course, as has also been said, - that is all it is - speculation.

So for posters to claim that "this" - or "that" result would have been achieved if "this" or "that" person had been manager, instead of the present incumbent, is spurious.

I thouroughly enjoy reading Darren's post and find them stimulating and often informative.

However I must say that he, saying that anyone who disagrees with his view has never, effectively, been on a football pitch in his or her life, is tantamount to delusional infallability.

Brian (519), yes I surprised myself by wanting Allardyce, but Everton were in the shit, I honestly thought, and Sam had the reputation for getting clubs out of that situation, then he had the chance to prove something, but didn't even try, most probably content with getting eighteen months pay for six months work.

Regarding the rest of your post Brian, I agree with most of it, as you say, nothing is guaranteed with Carlo bringing success, he pleasantly surprises me then perplexes, frustrates and deflates me, maybe he does with many fans, but yes he deserves more time to prove he can move us on, so we should continue to praise him and criticise him as he deserves it.

The man who saved City that day was Bert Trautman, the goalkeeper, pronounced fit only shortly before the game, he produced save after brilliant save, with only a Jimmy Harris effort going passed him, we were great to watch but two second half goals knocked us out, I think Bobby Johnstone got the winner for City.

The following Wednesday afternoon City trounced us 3-0 at Maine Road in a league game, and if I'm not mistaken Cliff Britton, the manager resigned after an argument, over football, with one of the Directors, Dick Searle possibly.

It's all in the past now and hopefully the current occupant of the hot seat will improve things over the coming years. There are no guarantees in football and we need a really good window this summer to move things forward.

Unsworth “Long and hard” is that why you call him Rhino?

There current season is very much similar to our champ league run. Not the most skillful squad, but a lot of togetherness. He reckons they are going to drop right off though as the players are getting super tired. You can see it even in their games. They'll come out blazing and get a couple of goals, but then tire and end up drawing/losing.

I know you openly prayed for Everton to lose their last semi final because you didnt like the manager and I know your many swipes at Darren will continue to be blanked for that very reason. But Your claim that he is a parasite is just plain disgusting.

This guy has had a season ticket for half a century. He the got season tickets for his lads. Later for his Grand kids.

The guy has spent tens of thousands to watch this club and bring his kids into the fold. Hardly the actions of a parasite

Who are you to call fans parasites What have you ever contributed ? Do you send your contributions by post ?

And have the courage of your convictions. You say "THEY are parasiteS Dont try to weasel out of it

I sadly don't remember that spefic game but I am always astonished at your memory in recalling games over 60 years ago, sometimes I forget who we played a couple of weeks back. My lasting memory of Jimmy Harris wasnt a football one, I remember getting on the number 14 bus and Jimmy Harris was sitting on the bus. I think he was courting Roberta Brown who was Miss Great Britain and she lived in Croxteth. Couldnt imagine ever seeing one of todays Premier league players on public transport.

Maybe that's were the game has gone wrong, yes in the days of the maximum wage they were exploited now there the ones doing the exploitation. I said to a mate the other day how like Polo is to football, he said how do you work that out, I said well its watching multi millionaires hit a ball about. the only difference they do it perched on a horse but the good thing there is no VAR in Polo.

Rabiot is an option as well.

What do other posters think of Coutinho as a player.

I've never stated the football we're enduring is acceptable in trying to get into Europe. I've always said that the mess inherited by Carlo and Marcel is still too big to enable much optimism this season. I've gone on and on about the need for Moshiri, and whomever he trusts to guide him, to this summer enable quality players to be signed.

I've repeatedly said you don't sign a manager like Ancelotti and then give him nowhere near enough ingredients to enable him to deliver the sort of quality you, me, and all of us aspire to be seeing.

But hey, since when has the truth ever stopped you having a venal rant against fellow fans eh?

Coutinho an upgrade on what we have? Yes.

If it happens, I would see him as someone who would fill the number 10 slot. James occasionally coming in but also using them both with James in more of the role we saw earlier in the season.

Upgraded right back, Koulibaly alongside Godfrey and then a striker. That starts to have a very good feel to it.

If I could be greedy, Sabitzer from Leipzig as well, although I guess he may follow his current boss to Bayern now?

Re Jimmy Harris, up to two years ago he used to sit just across the aisle, in The Upper Bullens Road stand, from me with his grandson, and he had a very good memory about the years gone by, he is one of the oldest ex Everton players still going, must be about eighty five.

Why on earth would you care what Mason said ?

he didnt just say he would accept a loss to get rid of the manager. He repeatedly came on stating that he really hoped we would lose the semi in order for the manager to be sacked. He was quite rightly hammered by people pointing out that he was wanting the dreams of thousands of young blues to be crushed.

A hypocrite of the highest order. He has since spent years aiming nasty comments at people who criticse the managers since...A born again happy clapper

In all the years I have supported this club he is one of only two people I have heard ofwho have wished our team to lose,

Zero football knowledge - You`ll have already gathered that.

Wide berth mate

"Fantastico" - yeah - if the cap fits - wear it.

I would rather buy a Philips, Rice, ward prowse, McGinn or Kante type rather than luxury. Getting the right balance is key.

Back to the op. I would take an away win no matter how bad the performance. You don't get any points for playing open football and getting beaten.

I actually see more potential in us but I am a optimistic blue of the highest order. I really like Ancelotti. He seems a great fit to me, great fella, seems to get Everton and clearly thought of well by players. I thought football at the start was really good - actually it was the defence what was poor (& still is). I think a few signings will transform this team. In really looking forward to what occurs.

I don't disagree that our football has been turd for many many months but I do disagree that this is what will be served up week in week out. We need better players and good performances will come. It won't happen overnight it will be an evolution not revolution and I'm fine with that - let's just get better each season which I'm confident we will do.

I do think anything less than 6th this season will be (rightly) viewed as a poor season.

If you want to call me a sycophant that's fine I've been called worse but I reserve the right to change my opinion if Carlo doesn't fulfill my expectations. I think he will. That said, I would concur with Casho and saying Mason is wrong to call you or any other match day attendee a “parasite.” What kind of parasite gives money to a club? Bobby, I agree I don't like booing but there are occasions when it's appropriate eg Nyarko.

My pedantic post for the evening.

What we need is a Bally box-to-box dynamo with a tackle, a fabulous range of passing, and more than a few goals.

Is that too much to ask for?

Answers on a share certificate please.

I don't always clap when I am happy but will start immediately. Although it might upset the missus when we are in bed.

You don't have to be happy to clap or clap to be happy but you should perhaps consider that if the wife is in bed giggling and clapping that it might not be you but the confirmation and thought of your imminent replacement. Alternatively, does the wife have a record of happily clapping in bed?

It's a hard life if you don't weaken!

You couldnt be more wrong the only thing I come on here for is to be informed, to learn.

I will debate and learn from people who have opposing views to me all day long. I do it virtually every day. I love to talk football...However: There are a small group of people who post on this site on a daily basis who don't know enough about the game to actually talk about it. They don't know enough to ever question the manager. As far as they are concerned, he will always, always, always be right.
Within this group are a handful of people who think its a good idea to come on and take unprovoked personal swipes. They will dedicate whole posts to the individual without even mentioning the game (see post 510 for prime example). In other words they want an argument.
If you respond to this personal stuff they will whine and accuse you of attacking "fellow fans".

I'm not kidding Hugh. It is totally beyond me as to why people would come on a footy website and try to ingratiate themselves with a handful of like minded without actually mentioning the game. Yet it happens all the time.
My comments where not directed at knowledgeable people who support Ancelotti and want to discuss the game. They were directed at happy clappers who don't.

As for your comment regarding wins big clubs; Whilst it comes as a considerable relief that we have finally thrown these monkeys off our backs. I would have much preferred to have done it by rising up to the level they have been at, rather than wait 20 years for them to come down to ours.

Regarding the question above.

I know Everton better then Carlo ever will. I know Goodison and all of its idiosyncracses better than he does. I know what makes the faithful silent. Like every other regular, I know what makes them excitedly jump out of their seat pumping their fist.. I know what turns the place into a bear pit...and I know the type of football which will incur wrath.
Does that make me qualified to give an opinion on what their reaction would have been to the overly cautious, Spirit sapping performances we have produced this season ? Fucking right it does

Perhaps you could produce and share a list of contributors who are sufficiently qualified to make comments about our team. You can then control the narrative and ensure you don't have to read posts from people ‘who don't know enough about the game', whilst you prattle on thinking you're right all the time.

You are making a complete fool of yourself. Having been exposed as a total hypocrite your are now trying to claim your nasty little digs are "responses". Nobody will be buying that pathetic excuse

Until I pulled you up for your vindictive "parasite" remark. Nobody addressed you So who are you responding to ?

I have yet to see anybody on this site go for you in a personal level. Yet I see you do it all the time.Do you realise how cowardly it looks ?
Do you ever actually talk about the game ?

I now see the wisdom of the advice to give you a wide berth.

Ajay

I agree with you about Maddison.
Leicester may be a better alternative at the moment, but that's an impressive list of attainable players you put up. If Carlo can bring in a couple of players of that ilk. I don't see any reason why we cant breeze past the likes of Leicester next season

I think Brands went for Madisson before he signed for Leicester, but his main reason for selecting Leicester was because it was close to Coventry where his Mum and Dad live. So I don't think we would pursue him again.

Ward-Prowse similarly.

Just whilst on Leicester, I watched an interesting programme about various clubs last night. Different topic and one I rant about a lot, but never realised that the reason Jamie Vardy dropped down into non-league football was because Sheffield Wednesday rejected him. For what? For being too small. How English.

I suppose like all players, the question is whether they show consistency and how do they react when no longer the big fish in a smaller pond (Michael Keane, Sigurdsson, Wilfred Zaha).

Health OK? I've been concerned by your absence from TW in recent weeks.

And your right about some comically fantastical posts that litter this thread by a number of posters.

A case of not observing the old Greek aphorism, scio te ipsum, 'know thyself', methinks.

I wonder if Ward-Prowse is a Mark Kinsella type. Technically sound, good on free kicks but a big fish small pond type rather than a top player?

Health is good thanks. Decided to expend a little less time and emotion on TW but still check in from time to time.

Hope you're doing well.

There is no doubt there are few better at dead ball situations than Ward Prowse, now I suppose the only question is, does he have the rest of the tools to be a top player, I am not sure. I think your analogy of a big fish in a small pond is correct, the times you look at players playing for a less fashionable club and think he could be good surrounded by better players, but when that move happens how often have we seen players fail to deliver. Now that could be his new manager plays him in a different position than he played at his previous club, or he was to good for the group he was playing with but just lacked the quality to make the step up.

£80m buys 3 Davy Klaassens and a Sandro Ramirez

I wouldn't.

Ward-Prowse is an interesting one, Brian #577. I think he looks like a labouring type sometimes due to his running style but I think he's got a damn good motor and battery. Definitely worth a punt.

We really missed out on some of the players Leicester scouted - Tielemans and previously Mahrez, for example. This is where Brands has to do his job. I feel, given the nature of our current position and budget, the solution may have to come from abroad.

At one point, I really liked Brookes at Bournemouth but he appears to have disappeared off the radar. I like Buendia too, fine footballer but a tad too slow for my liking. Cantwell looke a good prospect at one point. What's he doing these days? Slightly leftfield, what about Armstrong at Southampton? McNeil at Burnley definitely is worth looking at.

What we don't need is any more technically gifted but second gear players. Nor injury prone ones. We have far too many of those already. Pace, dynamism, athleticism and skilled. Not too much to ask for but difficult to find. Over to you Marcel.

Final point on Godfrey. What an excellent, whole hearted young player! But I have to see him do it all over again next season. I've seen too many players flatter to deceive over the years. I'm confident he will but I suppose the point I wish to make is that we may have to accept an element of risk in our recruitment of younger players. Some times they burn brightly and fade, others take a while to become consistent.

We have to energise our midfied!

Have to trust Carlo and Brands together. Summer window last year was our best for some years.

Neither lol. It would send a terrible message if we sold him (e.g. the selling club etc) And as Karl says what would we get with the money? Once the cash hits the bank then any potential selling club out there will jack up their prices as "well if this player is replacing your 80 million pound man then he must be worth 70 million." To Andrew's point, there are certainly clubs out there desperate for cash. But the ones in greatest peril Juve, Inter (whose owners want to off load them) have players on insane wages e.g. Ramsey on 400k a week. Even if they agree to take less for say selling Lukaku, would he take less to join a non CL club? I doubt it. With James we were able to structure the deal so he effectively will earn the money he was due if he had stayed at Real Madrid over the next two years. That kind of deal rarely happens.

Or do we?

Good call on Brookes. I believe he had a lengthy injury that caused him to much most of last season. Not sure how he has done this year in the EFL but he's only 23 so if he can regain his form he might be worth a punt

But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper.

Andrew #583, like who? Can you name a striker we could buy for that figure right now who would be better than Dom? Would score a goal every game-and-a-half and do everything else he does?

My first instinct would be, hell yeah, 80m for Dom would be a great price. Now.

But would it look great a few years from now? Remember, we're talking about a 24-year-old striker who has significantly improved every aspect of his game except his dreadful shooting. He's stronger, more aggressive and much, much better at getting on the end of chances than he was a year ago. And strikers mature late, so it's safe to assume his consistency will improve over time.

20-goal-scorers of his youth and physical presence don't exactly fall off trees. I'd say let's get a playmaking midfielder and a speedy winger who can create more scoring chances for him -- we're still in the bottom half of the league in chances created -- and see how he does.

We can always sell him later if he doesn't improve more. I'm guessing he will... even if he never learns to shoot.

"But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper."

Which is why I would consider selling Richarlison as that is more his role.

"But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper."

Which is why I would consider selling Richarlison as that is more his role.

We need that forward thinking and energy in midfield. Our own Mount, Foden. We need a player with this boundless energy and good technically too. It's been said a million times our midfielders are too ponderous and we are way too slow in accurate, zipping passes going forward.

Having said that against Tottenham two weeks ago we were way better. Is Carlo and the staff getting through to them at last ? It's hard to say as the Arsenal match was a largely disjointed display.

Bruno Fernandes was a catalyst for Man Utd to improve, our midfield still needs this type of player to bring goals, assists and attacking energy.

Grealish is a different type of player, but a wonderful footballer. Who wouldn't have him in a heartbeat?, but James Rodriguez has his sublime creativity too, so whilst James is here we will have to forgo Grealish for now.

Grealish reminds me of Alan Ball, exactly the type of player we need to bring more movement through the midfield. Grealish playing alongside James would, imo, be like Ball playing alongside Colin Harvey.

Aside from that, I've said earlier, I have a £1 each way bet (with myself) on Kean being back next season.

Striker, right back and then more patches to the midfield. I know that's asking a lot, but then we expect a lot of this manager and next season he is rightfully going to have to show us why we pay the money and he has the reputation.

In addition to that, whilst I'm theorising and playing fantasy transfer football, I'd still like Koulibaly if that's on. Coutinho could be an interesting one to fill the 10 position and swap out with or play alongside James. And then if you were to ask me for an attacking midfielder of choice I could have, Sabitzer from Leipzig.

Aarons, Koulibaly, Godfrey, Digne

Allan, Doucoure

Richarlison, Coutinho (or James), Sabitzer

DCL

I don't usually play this game as you never know and can't predict but even with the likes of Sigurdsson, Davies, Keane, Holgate, Coleman (still) Nkounkou, a few additions like that starts to improve the team and the squad.

He seems to win almost every ball that is played up to him, chesting it down and bringing others into play, his heading ability now is second to none, still a little rough around the edges of putting those one on one chances away, but has improved from the previous season.

The service to him could be much better, sometimes fighting a lone battle in attack, if he went to a team that played to his strengths and support, he would certainly be one if not the best strikers around.

What he has achieved, with our snail paced midfield is remarkable, £80 Million might seem decent money, but there is no striker out there around his age, that you could bring in for that amount of money.

Instead of looking for a replacement, we need to be looking for an additional striker to help out.

I would tell Utd, he is not for sale at any price.

Unfortunately, neither Grealish nor Sabitzer will be joining Everton. They have the pick of the Champions League clubs. We're not there yet.

Centre backs mature later. Don't judge them before 26 - 28 years in my opinion. Unless there are obvious flaws in their game that are unlikely to change.

As always, I say we need to look outside the Prem for our transfer candidates.

I'd be amazed if he gave up what he has at Leicester, but Rodgers has always struck me as someone who thinks ahead and cares not for the short term. So amazed but not surprised if he jumped should Tottenham come calling.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/04/28/welcome-to-spurs-celtic-fans-react-to-what-brendan-rodgers-has-just-said-about-tottenham/

But unless there's an absolute boatload of money involved, no way Rodgers will jump. He's a shrewd judge of young talent, and Leicester has way more of it than Spurs. Most dynamic young midfield in the Prem by far. They'll stay in the Champions League for years if they keep it together.

Brenda having walked out on his childhood dream club of Celtic said on arriving a Leicester a club he had no prior involvement with “I would die for this club.”
Moral of the story: he's full of shit. He'd sign for the devil himself

Don't get me wrong, a very good and proven coach, but he likes status, so a club like Tottenham would appeal however good the short term prospects look at the King Power on Filbert Way, Leicester.

An individual who's first actions I believe when he took over at Liverpool, were to erect a portrait of himself in the manager's office, whiten his teeth (there is subsequent history there) and bin his wife for a younger model.

I distract. I suppose my point is that Rodgers is all about Rodgers and the image. Not necessarily the short-term gain a decent Leicester team may give him. That's not a criticism by the way despite my childish mudslinging above. He is ambitious and I believe if he got offered the Tottenham gig, he could well be tempted. He saw the lure of the Premier League as sufficient bait to walk from Celtic. In fairness, he thinks strategically & realistically from a Brendan Rodgers career perspective.

I'd say Koeman was an absolute mercenary and had a good track record coming in but how did that work out?

I remember seeing a picture of him doing sprints with his Liverpool first team squad, and if you could see the vanity in the picture, then I'd harbour a guess that he must get some fuckn stick when his back is turned?

Players get stale after 3yrs they need to be permanently under threat as per the utd model under Ferguson. DCL is good but every player has his price and 80m would do the job

Compared with the other mercenary Brendan Rodgers he had a good track record. Both one titles and cups in a weaker league (Netherlands/Scotland). Difference being Ronald did it at different clubs, Brendan took over a club that had won the past 6 years in a row, and while maintaining that he turned them from a team that had been in the knockout stages of the CL under his predecessor into a team that were utterly humiliated by Kazakh opponents. Koeman also won a cup in Spain, and Portugal, and may do the double in Spain this year. He also inherited a Soton team in dire straights after their manager and half the team left, and had them in the top 8th. So that versus, Brenda -- sacked at Liverpool having done nothing, one year keeping Swansea in the prem, Koeman the mercenary more than held his own with the mercenary Brenda when he arrived at Everton. Silva was another mercenery who'd won championships and cups in other weak leagues, and bed hopped like Ron Jeremy prior to coming to Everton. Another failure. No more mercenaries for me mate.

Tough decision of course, given it's about 50/50 on most of your posts!

Ooh! Nearly forgot!

I'd not sell DCL (if this is enough "football comment" to make my contribution admissible to you).

Have a nice day, or two!

Did you ever see the RS reality show? Sterling grimaced and the Mr Toad lookalike Brenda dragged him out in front of everyone with this ridiculous dressing down, threatening to send him on the next plane home etc. It was all theatre, so over the top but designed to show how he was so tough and wise. Sterling must be laughing looking at his paycheck and trophy haul now.

He also bizarrely did a rant about his opulent childhood where he was fed with a "silver shovel." The bizarre thing was he explained it in a very angry voice, which made me think he had a chip on his shoulder and his family weren't rich but he was over compensating by angrily explaining how rich they were.

He also spent half the series sitting in his living room surrounded by family explaining how he was Dad/Son/Husband of the year Mr Grounded, down to Earth. Then a few weeks later he ditched all that and ran off with a young girl with the surname Hind.

Danny, I do think you're right about Rodgers and his ambitions, which is why I think he'll stay at Leicester until one of the big boys comes calling again. He has a much better chance of building a CL resume at Leicester than he does at Spurs right now.

If we sold DCL 10 times, would it turn out well in the 6-9 range?

With regards Calvert-Lewin , him and Richarlison have blown hot and cold all season. I think they come in for a lot of unfair criticism since for the whole season it's really just been on them two to produce the goods. It's asking too much.

To progress into the top 4 we need four forwards to form an attacking team. Most of the clubs we are trying to overtake have more options and more quality. We need to be adding an experienced striker to the core ‘ forward squad' and a young aspiring forward too.

Aguero is up for grabs, what a signing he would be added to DCL and Richie. I think he has two or three top years left in the tank. Can Carlo work his magic, you never know as he is settled in the Northwest.

Then a young forward who wants to make his mark and push the others for a place. Kean has done really well in France but I'm not too sure he would replicate that form if we brought him back here. He has a bit more space and time when playing for PSG, in the Premier League the intensity and down the throat nature of the game makes life much tougher for him. It's time to take the money for him.

Who to replace him with will be an interesting debate. I like what I have seen from Broadhead, it's hard to say whether he is ready for that promotion. Others will have a more informed idea. If not Brands could find a young up and coming forward with some serious pace to compliment the others.

I think we need that balanced and complimentary squad of four forwards to make real progress from this season.

I'm afraid £80M these days is fuckall for a top striker, and way short for even thinking about empire building, let alone doing it.

It's to be hoped that those days of grabbing a few bob for one of our top players is behind us. Otherwise, Ancelotti might be thinking what the fuck he's doing here.

Yeah he provided endless ammunition. What a clown

I'd take Aguero in a flash.

I said Liverpool are going for the league and that shithouse Rodgers, was in a house when the woman's ex-partner turned up, but he wouldn't come out and confront him, how's that stayed out the papers?

He started laughing, and said he's been carrying on with one of the secretaries at Anfield, (club-staff) and his son found out where she lived an went round with a cricket bat. It made sense, an ex-partner would have probably knocked the door down, and although he eventually left his wife for this woman, he did very well not having it splashed all over the papers, and probably because him or his employees, have the press in their pockets like nickels and dimes, to borrow a phrase from my favourite ever movie!

Though having thought about it, seeing as Aguero will be on a free, city will have no say in the matter as to where he goes!

Also another sick note, injury prone cast off. Just like Delph. Etc

Hypothetically it is distinctly possible if squad improvement results.

(Oops! I referenced the hypothetical forgetting how much it disturbs you. Try chamomile tea whilst researching the meaning it might help your frantic chewing on what is now a historic old bone)

I was thinking of a couple of geriatrics we got off City over the years. Paul Power And Gareth Barry. Both well over the hill, and stole a living off us!

We made the mistake of letting Lukaku go and not replacing him.

We need to be building a team around Calvert-Lewin and the likes, not selling them, we got £75 Million plus £15 Million add ons, and that was 4 years ago, for Lukaku, but you think £70 Million for an improving striker who is still only 24 is good value.

He is the only striker we have at the club, by all means let the likes of Bolasie, Besic, Delph, Iwobi, Siggy and the likes go, the only problem is, no one will entertain them.

There is a reason Utd are after Calvert -Lewin, he is a hot prospect and will only get better.

We now need to start building a team around Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Digne, Allan, Godfrey, and Doucoure, the mentioned players should not even be concidered about selling.

I'm skeptical about Aguero for us. At 32 he certainly has good years left and his work ethic remains exemplary, but in the past year and a half he's had five extended injuries -- three thigh muscles, two knee problems. I just wonder if all those fouls and all those miles are catching up with him.

But wow, what Dominic could learn from him!

My worry with Aguerro is the cost. He's on 230k a week right now, even if he took a 50% pay cut that's 115k a week. He will be 33 in a month, he missed the back end of last season with a knee injury, came back in October, 2 weeks later he was out with a hammy for a month, came back for one week, then he was out with a knee injury for another month. After that he had covid, but since then he's had only four starts and wasn't even selected in the squad for the last two weeks. It's not as if City have an abundance of strikers so that makes me wonder.

When Paul Power signed, he was with a City team being promoted so while I don't know his wages I can't imagine he was on the equivalent of 215k a week. If Aguerro was available for a nominal wage, e.g. 40k or something then maybe but I would worry about limiting our other investment if we spent a lot on his wages.

Also, we always hear the old chestnut of "Reid was injury prone when we signed him," but on the flip side so were ADVM, Whiteside, Gibson, etc. The odds don't favor the dying swan.

Mike # 637. I've heard nothing about where Aguero will end up. Just a feeling that's all. I think I've read somewhere that he does want to stay in the premier league though.

I've no idea who would replace him but presumably that's why Brands is here but I can't believe there isn't someone capable of doing what DCL does not to mention go round the keeper to nail one on ones. (Btw I've heard people suggest that can be coached - it can't. If you can't do it at 11 yrs old it will never come naturally)

Rom has weaknesses but at the time was considered world class what world class striker could we have got as a replacement? I don't see this as a failure of policy just a reality of the situation.

Utds strategy has always been to throw enough shit at the fan in the hope some sticks their fall out rate is huge no ultimate gauge of quality are they.

I expressed myself badly. I was agreeing with you. I'd have him too. I was just thinking about the possible reaction.

With £80m burning a hole in our pocket we could be quoted much more than my estimates too. That represents very poor value in my book. Aguero is a lovely idea if he can play games but an expensive waste of time if he can't. He's only played 9 league games this season and scored only one goal. That's not what we need with or without DCL.

I thought he was ok-ish for us after all it's the easiest position on the pitch if you can't play and he couldn't pass a ball to save his life.

I remember at Leicester the ball broke loose around him as he ventured upfield and they charged passed him as he laboured to turn and within seconds they had scored

Couldn't believe it when PSG come in for him and I bet they're thinking the same tonight.

A Mick Jones to Allan Clarke, or even Toshsck to Keegan.

Where do they show serie A in the US now? I used to watch it religiously in the 90s. I've a lot of Inter Milan paraphernalia in my house. Seems like an opportune time to revive interest in my second team. My Giuseppe Bergomi shirt still fits — except around the holidays and weekends.

Kieran, a Bergomi shirt??? Way cool. Not many of those around. Do you have a bushy mustache to go with it? Anyway, in answer to your question, ESPN+ shows a lot of Serie A online -- Inter's next game is Saturday morning at 9 Pacific against Crotone.

I also have DirecTV so I can catch occasional games on the Spanish-language channels like Univision and ESPN Deportes. But ESPN+ is your best bet.

I would dishonor Giuseppe by growing a moustache. No one can match his no nonsense Sergeant major tache.