Baines takes coaching role at Everton

Man City and Liverpool have as far as I know no ex players in coaching roles, but they are hard nosed professional outfits, without sentiment.

This is why he never really challenged Ashley Cole for the English job. Like I said, he had great attacking skill but as a purely defensive player? Meh

But seriously, since Ancelotti and Brands now appear to be calling the shots, it should be based on professional effectiveness and not sentiment.

Should, meaning "Likely is", not ought to be.

Glad Rhino will continue managing the U23s with the promotion. He's doing the job.

The sentiment doesn't bother me a bit. Class is class. And Bainesy clearly impressed Carlo enough in just their few months together that he wanted him on board.

Will and David, agreed, I was a bit taken aback when Jeffers came back on board. But then again, I was absolutely stunned that Ferguson was brought back in a coaching role, and that has worked out really well. So it's up to the individual to make it work with the club. I have no doubts that Baines will work out great.

In Baines case he is a role model for young players in the game on how to become professional footballer both on and off the pitch, and I am sure he knows some of his own weaknesses and how he can improve younger players not to make them.

I am sure we will get the comment, just looking after the old boy's but this appointment seems to made because of Baines experience, and ability to pass it on to other players who listen and take note because of who is giving it.
Congratulations to Leighton Baines, another good signing.

Firstly, great player doesn't always equate to great coach, so I hope that the club has made the decision based on Baines' potential as a coach, not his reputation as a player. Remember Koeman?

Secondly, and this is the bit I acknowledge will likely open me up to criticism, which I am willing to accept for putting forward my opinion. Do we want this type of mentality remaining in the club?

Just putting it out there, but the Baines-Jagielka grip on the dressing room in my opinion was something that got us so far but equally held us back. They were accepters of mediocracy and not winners. They were Moyes' men. Some of Jags' interviews were shocking in my opinion and he was supposed to be our captain. Many of us (myself included) eventually turned on Roberto, but did he see something when he tried to drop Leighton? He didn't really play much after that, but there seemed to be a very effective campaign to turn that one on the manager. Silent assassin springs to mind.

For the record, I actually rate Baines as the best Everton left back I've seen and I watched the 80s side first hand, season ticket holder. I'm not old enough to have seen Ray Wilson.

I would just rather break from the non-winning mentality that has plagued our club since that era and Baines, good as he was fits that category for me.

Jeez we do employ a lot of ex-players. I'm not being negative, but I can't ever remember any professional team ever hiring so many ex-players after they hang it up? I mean in any sport!

It's not normal.

The boot room worked in a certain era as did our Kendall & Harvey combo in the 1980s.

Kendall & Harvey were title winners as players who brought winning mentality to the club. Not sure sentiment has a place in the modern game as much as it did have then.

Just my view. I reiterate my respect for Leighton the player.

I have to simply bow to your opinion, and I do so without hesitation.

I think some of this (?) might be a Scouse thing? There's this "us" mentality that can manifest itself in keeping ex-players "in the family".

We just rarely do that over here. Former players can be revered, but they are rarely, rarely hired into the organization they spent time with. It does happen - but usually it's a player "destined for coaching" or some such thing.

Everton have ambassadors, coaches, trainers, etc. It really is a ton of ex-players. I think it's just something more foreign to me and more the norm over your way.

"We're currently working through some of the final details, which we believe will be great for Leighton and for our football club.

"While we're not in a position to confirm this yet, I assure you that you will be the first to know – as I know how much Leighton means to you and how interested you'll be in any role we confirm with him. "

Denise Barret Baxenadale. Everton Chief Executive.

I'd actually support that wholeheartedly!

If things go awry at Everton on the pitch or elsewhere, the club can always wheel out these former club men to put forward the 'reasons' and you would expect them to stick to the script, whereas, a better qualified independently minded 'outsider' might spill the beans.

On the other hand, having staff, that understand the club, can be useful, as it helps to inform new players of what is required by the fans and hopefully inspire them to want to perform to their very best.

I suppose it doesn't really matter which method is employed if things are going swimmingly on the pitch and the team is winning.

Baines is an absolute class act. Happy enough to see him coaching. Hope he does well.

Fenway Sports are a USA organisation and they now own the RS - so the system is based on their way - as described by Jamie.

Whether or not the "boot room" philosophy is still relevant or practical in today's football world is a moot point.

We (Everton) practiced it, as did LFC - but they extolled it as a virtue.

When they found it no longer worked (Alan Evan's regime) they dropped it like a hot potato and never went back. That more or less coincided with the "thirty year " wait for the title.

It will be interesting to see if EFC, keeping faith with Big Dunc, Rhino, and Bainsey. etc. all under the guidance of Carlo and Marcel, can replicate the success of our old "Boot room boys" (Howard and Colin) or if that mould has well and truly been cracked beyond repair.

Interesting times.

I do have to say I understand this "boot room" approach, but I'm not a fan of it.

You hire the most qualified individuals, then indoctrinate them into the culture and philosophy of the Club. That doesn't mean, nor should it, you have to hire from inside the family. Your example of how John Henry & Co. have handled their organization is accurate, and frankly more what I'd like to see Everton do.

I think hiring inside the family isn't ideal. But again, this really is probably a cultural thing and I'm on the outside looking in.

Looking at Baines in particular, I'm more critical of this appointment because from what I saw from Baines over the years was a great player and servant, but a quiet man and not a leader. Yes, I know quiet types can absolutely lead, but I never got that vibe from Baines.

Jags, Neville, Cahill, Barry, Howard - they all "lead" in their own way. And from what I saw and gather (can't truly know obviously, this is conjecture admittedly) they "lead" far more than the excellent Leighton Baines did. I don't think Leighton is a coaching fit.

Regards the boot room mentality/approach, I have no cares either way as long as it is successful. Doesn't seem to be at the moment.

Madness to put him straight into a coaching role he needs to go elsewhere and see if has the makings. More amateurism from the club

Forget the Baines thing, sounds good. I hope it's effective. He should be responsible for the likes of Dobbin going from u18s to first team and still look after the likes of Gordon once they are in the first team. I just hope it's not for show.

The head scratcher is unsworth. He's promoted to director of the academy but retains his job as u23 coach. Ok I can understand that. But the guy he replaces, Joel Waldron, is also promoted and becomes the chief operating officer of the academy.

So, who's in charge? Are they just handing out promotions willy-nilly? Sounds like too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

I was upset, now I am going through the roof. Going for a walk to cool down. Using the word head scratcher is showing extreme self control in my opinion. Had now read down as far as Haworth mention.

No- advertised vacancies
No -selection process
Yes-Finding roles for existing staff.

At the start of the Summer I said there would be a battle for control of the Culture of the Club. Ancelotti with Brands seemed to made significant strides in transfer policy and in changing the playing Culture of the Club, but now we are seeing the fight back from Kenwright &Co in defence of their culture.

In my opinion the dual role of Brands as Director of Football and as Member of the Board, looks the equivalent of a bareback rider In the circus riding two bloody horses at once, as far Backroom staff Management is concerned.

Going out the door.

Unsworth? Never a first team manager but I see no reason to disapprove his promotion. Who is going to replace him and wave the wand? These are modest shufflings.

For example, Man Utd have 6 former players like Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, Mike Phelan, Nicky Butt, Michael Carrick, Michael Clegg and Mark Dempsey on their coaching or fitness staff.

And when Seamus hangs up his boots, we would be lucky to have such a valued and intelligent person on our coaching staff.

Not picking a fight here, but I'd argue if you want success, you don't create an "Ol' Boys Club" with former players. They aren't put out to pasture in the youth academy.

I have five sons. I can tell you with 100% certainty former players do NOT equate to good coaches necessarily. It can happen, but it's shocking how former players are given all the opportunities to try coaching, when in fact they are shite at coaching. It permeates US Soccer - that I promise you.

Anywho look I love Leighton Baines. A nicer man you couldn't find. But screw colors and please start learning a thing or two from that outfit across the park. They'd sooner be shot in the head than hire a former player for the sake of hiring a former player.

What coaching qualifications does Leighton have? I mean seriously, the dude was as quiet as a church mouse professionally. Did you ever see players on the pitch listening to Leighton's instructions? Was it ever reported that Leighton was a great footballing mind and a leader of men?

FFS, Phil Neville is the kind of guy I'd hire to coach - not Leighton Baines!

Perhaps I've said too much...

Exactly!!

I fucking ADORE Seamus Coleman. I named my damn dog Seamus and he wears a blue collar FFS!

But that absolutely doesn't mean we should hire him as a coach when he retires! It's insanity. And I'll bet you're right - that's exactly what we'll do when he hangs up the boots.

And, how could you or anyone else be in a position to comment on Seamus Coleman's future coaching credentials at this stage.

Sentiment often runs contrary to good business and though it makes for a fuzzy feeling it has not so far translated to any type of success on the pitch during the reign of Kenwright, who I think is probably mainly responsible.

Best of luck to Leighton.

Sam, agree completely. I'm all in favour of giving ex players an opportunity. If they are not up to the job, they will move on. I'd love to see Gareth Barry passing on his knowledge here.

Kendall, Royale and Harvey all left Everton after their playing careers where finished taking up coaching positions with other team proving themselves before getting back to Everton.

Steve#42

I have just worked it out it's , Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs.

We've had months of those 'in the know' hinting at Unsworth being moved on as he is so obviously not fit for purpose and/or involved in some hinted at salacious tittle-tattle or dark goings-on but nobody could quite ever work out exactly what.

But instead of being a dead-cert to be sacked, he is made academy director. But don't get too carried away, it is obviously just based on sentiment and thus not a good thing. His actual record and abilities as a coach don't enter the equation.

What a legion of gobshites this club attracts.

For a new role I think Baines is an easy fit but I do actually think he brings a lot of football knowledge and will be respected by young players.

Defending is becoming more about improving the attacking transition and upping defenders technical skills. He's a modern Unsworth and may be the future u23 coach gaining some experience before the next reshuffle.

He's naturally slim but I'm sure he looks after himself better than Unsy did, another requirement if your going to make it to the top.

On the other hand, there's people like Jeffers. Only given a job because we felt sorry for him - and again he has gone on to make a serious mistake despite nearly being in his 40's. If we accept that Baines' professionalism will be learned from by the youngsters then it's time to kick Jeffers out of the door for demonstrating behaviour we don't want to see associated with EFC.

Lets hope it works out.

It'll surprise no-one that his appointment is to me so redolent of the Kenwright ass-kissing coaching culture pervading USMFF for decades. You know, the culture that every single season has vast numbers rightly asking on the site, "Just what the hell do they do at Finch Farm?"

And by the way, as good as he is, as a left back he has Andy Hinchcliffe, Pat Van Den Hauwe and Ray Wilson way out in front of him as far as I'm concerned.

Ummm... not exactly.

Just from your old neighborhood... Bill Russell, Tommy Heinsohn, KC Jones, Chris Ford, Johnny Pesky, Terry O'Reilly and Mike Milbury.

And a few others, just from memory:

Mike Ditka
Tommy Lasorda
Ralph Houk
Tom Landry
Dan Reeves
Tom Flores
Pat Riley
Joe Dumars
Bart Starr
Billy Martin
Joe Girardi
Doc Rivers
Ron Wilson
Art Shell
Lindy Ruff
Lenny Wilkins
David Ross (Go Cubbies!)
Guy Carbonneau
Forrest Gregg
Larry Wilson

And that's just managers and head coaches, not assistants. Might not be 100% accurate, but you get my point. It may not be common, but it certainly isn't "rarely, rarely".

Model club pro, now elevated to the role of 'development coach' to the Under-18 to 23 group. OK.

His job title is not explicitly defined and the age range he will work with is very broad, yet a few posters are making quite sweeping presumptions about his suitability and capacity to fulfil the role on... nothing, really.

On the other hand – like Si @ 59 – I have no issue employing former players in coaching roles if it is based on meritocracy. As far as I am aware, the post Leighton has taken up was not openly advertised so we could recruit the best candidate, rather than directly hiring the latest retired player.

That way we can better live up to the club motto and keep on striving to achieve excellence.

Similarly with David Unsworth, as Peter Gorman says @ 57, the tittle-tattle of the summer has been stood on its head by his promotion (although I wouldn't go as far as Peter's rather cutting final sentence).

Rhino's enhanced role does puzzle me. How can he be expected to effectively fulfil his enhanced role as overall Director of the Academy and continue his existing role as manager of the U-23s?

I also wonder at the changed role of the existing Director of the Academy, Joel Waldron, who moves (sideways? downwards? upwards?) to become the Academy's Chief Operating Officer, whatever that entails.

As to who is the architect behind these appointments and reshuffle, who knows definitively? Marcel Brands is quoted on the club site as saying:

"David's credentials as a coach are first-class and we all know this is matched by his passion for the Club. The Chief Executive and I have worked with him on this extension of his role and we all believe this will help ensure an even smoother route into the senior squad for our homegrown players.

“We are all committed to developing the very best local talent and are determined to maintain our position as one of the best player development programmes in football. Adding Leighton and his knowledge into that structure will be very valuable to us. He is taking up a new and important role which he has helped design based on his recent perspective and tremendous experience as a player.

“With David working closely alongside his coaching team, and with Joel Waldron continuing to manage our operations, we are confident the Academy is in very good hands.”

That reads as Brands being very much party to this and his overhaul of the academy structure, not as someone being outmanouvered by some Machiavellian agent within the club, as some wish to portray this.

Many young players need a steady hand at that stage and surely, there can be no-one better suited to putting a metaphorical arm around them, than Leighton Baines. It seems fairly clear, that he is not intended to be teaching them how to dribble, or the finer points of the 'diamond'. More likely, he is meant to observe them and say that they might want to work on and improve X or Y. There is no element of sentiment here, he is simply, the right person for the particular task.

Sounds like Waldron as “operations” guy will handle logistics, schedules, equipment, budgets, travel, staffing etc with Brands in contrast emphasizing Unsie's skill as a coach. Kind of like a tv show with Waldron the producer but Unsie as director only with half a dozen side shows going on that Unsie is also helping to direct.

These positions aren't a new thing, and I'm surprised if we haven't had anyone in the past who did something like this. About 20 years ago I worked for Leyton Orient, and they had this older ex-pro who did something similar. He hardly ever did any coaching on the field with the YTS's and youth players, but would run classroom sessions on money management, etiquette and media.

I think your assessment, with details well researched, is fair enough and a development of the Youth system was necessary. But what were the selection criteria for these roles? Who else was considered and where the people chosen the best possible candidates? In addition, what type of selection predictors are these for a coaching role?

Ref Baines:

'He is taking up a new and important role which he has helped design based on his recent perspective and tremendous experience as a player. '

Ref Unsworth:

"David's credentials as a coach are first-class and we all know this is matched by his passion for the Club. '' Unsworth's role had previously been reduced to concentrate, in Unsworth own words, 'on coaching the U-23s'; now, his role has been increased??

Normally, when a candidate is selected in a professional procedure, it is not accompanied by an explanation. A physiologist would tell you that, when a reason has to be given regarding a decision, it is often an excuse. The reasons given above are excuses.

I have no problem with a professional and proper selection process, but I see no evidence of it in these two cases.

We signed one of the world's biggest global stars only days ago, in a rare piece of commercial acumen, (Probably driven by the player and his own publicity team rather than Everton) we reached out from L4 to give us a fleeting global presence.

Does the inclusion of another ex-Everton player, even one as well-received as Baines, seem in step with that vision? Do they have to be? Maybe not. I still believe we do not produce anything like the numbers and the standouts for the first team and to help massage the player trading profit/loss.

We need to be globally renowned and I'm not sure the academy as it stands is one young elite players are desperate to come to. Employing ex-Everton players who in reality won very little to nothing screams small club mentality, and that fleeting global reach I mentioned just shrunk all the way back to Finch Farm.

Go a get the foremost academy director, pinch him from Dortmund or Ajax or wherever. As usual, we think too small.

I'm not sure you can even teach what Baines and Pienaar had, so on that score why Baines at all. But you can up to a point, teach defending.

For all we know, Baines while not being a top notch defender, might be a very good teacher and communicator...'Those who can – do, those who can't – teach.'

In a perfect world, I'd go for the Poacher turned Gamekeeper and have the previously named Pat van den Hauwe coaching full-backery, The Dark Arts, and what mistakes not to make off-field.

Think of it as the difference between John Thaw as Morse and John Thaw as Reagan in The Sweeney.

At this time, I doubt that it has been made on sentimental grounds. It's not like there's lots of spare cash floating around and Kenwright will have little say in such an appointment.

I can't see any reason why an ex-player shouldn't be considered for a role, particularly with the character of Baines. I'm sure we will know he will put 100% into the job.

Not sure where you got that idea from.

If there was thing that hasn't changed in the pro sports world here is that, "mostly only those deemed to have the most pleasant-feeling lips on the owner's ass get the gigs." Generally, the level of coaching here is terrible, in all the major pro sports. And has been.

The Henry/Fenway Group in baseball and Kraft/Belichick with the NFL Pats consistently are in the hunt for titles. Intelligent, determined, focused, ruthless.

Their kind are few over here.

At least that's how I remember it.

I loved Paul Power. I was only a young ‘un so I was t aware of all the injured greats but to me Paul Power and Alan Harper we're pure gold. Still are.

I still somewhere have a team picture of the trophy award and it has Power, Harper and Co. Plus half a dozen players in plaster with crutches. They were the star men we managed without while Power, Harper, Langley and of course Psycho Pat got us over the line.

I stopped dead at 64. Mike Gaynes, fellow "Merican, "just from my 'hood".

You list EIGHT names, some of them very suspect.

Over what? FOURTY years??? Jesus Christ above pray for us Mike! Everton have eight dudes hired from the last month FFS!!!

I love ya Mike, but you're nuts man!

I'll read the rest, and fuck it, let's crush Spurs.

Everyone should read that post. It encapsulates the point I'm trying to make, from my perspective as a predominately New England sports fan. And yes, I'm sorry for making this overly American point.

The Sox and and Pats have the right of it:

The Henry/Fenway Group in baseball and Kraft/Belichick with the NFL Pats consistently are in the hunt for titles. Intelligent, determined, focused, ruthless.

Their kind are few over here.

I don't give a fiddler's fart if NESV owns the shite. Their way, which I've been bleating on about since they took ownership of El Crap, is THE way.

And a Yankee fan just made that point, italicized above.

Aim high. Don't hire just because, "he played for us and was great and is a great guy."

I might be wrong, but it's a point worth debate.

Thank you James Flynn. I love ya, just as I love Mike. Stick together, despite our differences, I know we will.

I'm off to bed.

UTFB

So Boston area teams? You and your mates ever chat sports at a tea party?!! Traitors!!!!

Those who can't, teach.

And those who can't teach, teach gym.

What a nut.

Can someone tell me who we should bring in who is better qualified.

I just want us to stop being a "jobs for the boys" sanctuary for ex-players wrapped up in nostalgia and sentiment. That's for us fans to reminisce, not those who run the club and coach the playing staff. If he's there on his merit as a coach / potential coach, fine with me.

My doubts around Leighton are nothing to do with his playing ability, more that he was part of a generation of players who accepted mediocrity themselves. Something no doubt that was engrained into them from the coaching staff of the day.

The best man to bring coaches into the Acadamy might be the man they signed, from Derby County, earlier this year to help run the younger teams,

Not to belittle the club, but if Baines was as good a player as a lot of fans claim, how come the only tangible transfer attempt was his old mate Moyes?

The bloke is a less impressive speaker than Jagielka, and he used to make me want to cry in misery when he spoke.

Nice fella, humble, professional. Great, but those attributes don't necessarily make great leaders.