Is it Everton's Time?

Once the government have, hopefully, given the green light the substantial costs involving getting the stadium this far can be offset on the balance sheet.

If he'd have appointed a Champion's League quality manager in the first place, instead of 3 second class ones, then he could have saved about half of it.

John, which "Champion's League quality manager" was available five years ago who would have even glanced at the job?

Might as well wonder why we didn't use the Stones money to sign Pogba or Zlatan. Surely they'd have come, eh?

Five years ago, the only Champions League manager who may have considered us was possibly Rafa give his family home in Caldy on the Wirral. Can you imagine the outcry if he was approached?

Rafa is/was light years ahead of Martinez, Koeman and Silva, and yes I think he would have been accepted. Evertonians weren't excited about any of our appointments and were proved to be right.

Carlo more than 'glanced' at the job Mike and we were in a worse position when he took over than when Moshiri arrived.

When Man City (a no bigger club than us) got the sheiks, they managed to get Mancini in very quickly. Abramovich arrives at Chelsea, Mourinho arrives soon after.

If Moshiri had the right advisors and negotiators in place to sell his vision for this club, I'm sure we could have got a higher calibre manager a lot sooner.

And given who Moshiri employed and still employs in his boardroom as advisor and negotiator, John, who do you identify as being the ever-present-for-decades board member/chairman who's so scuppered our club's chances since Moshiri bought in?

The preceding 20 dreadful years before that are a mere clue, if you need one.

Moshiri has made some poor choices with his managers and of course Steve Walsh. His choice of CEO wasn't overly inspiring either.

5 years since he came to club and people are still asking the same can plucky Everton finally make it into the big time questions that they were when Moyes was manager.

And we can't keep blaming Kenwright. The last 5 years are firmly on Moshiri's doorstep and if this time ends the same as the others he'll really need to think big to fix it.

I'm prepared to give Moshiri time. He bought into the club after 20 yrs of neglect and an inferiority complex. Go back to the 1970's. Catterick retired. We brought Bingham in. Everton were bankrolled by John Moores. We paid the record transfer of the day for Bob Latchford. We didnt go after Shilton because the board thought it was too much for a keeper. Lee came in and we went close to winning silverware. By 1981 the squad had declined. Kendal came and by being canny with transfers and a fantastic spirit we were back on top. Behind the scenes Philip Carter. An employee of JM was running the club. We didn't have the Littlewoods money to bankroll us. We slowly declined and with an aging stadium and lesser quality players coming to the club we regressed back to the mid 70's.
Without success and a bunch of directors not willing or able to put huge sums into the club it was sold to Peter Johnson. He never had the money to kick start us again. He did some questionable deals with the clubs assets then made a quick buck and fled.
Enter Bill Kenwright. 20 years of bluffing the fans with American directors/investors. There were plenty of suitors to buy the club. They weren't prepared to keep Blue Bill in the boardroom.
Along comes Moshiri. A very rich man but nowhere near the wealth of the sheikh at City or the likes of Joe Lewis at Spurs even. He inherited Martinez in the dugout. Sacked him and got what appeared to be a decent manager with EPL experience. Koeman stole a living and was replaced with the much lauded next great manager. The pundits had given him high praise for the style of play he employed. I know I omitted Allardyce but he was a panic appointment to keep us up.
So...two Moshiri appointments to bring the good times back failed. Time to appoint the real deal. Go and get the best man available. Enter Carlo Ancelotti. A serial winner with years of experience. 12 months on and we have a real possibility of getting into the CL. With a squad of misfits and blunders by previous wise men. All the time in the background Moshiri has plotted to spend the largest amount of money and the most difficult decision in the clubs history by pushing for a new stadium.
Personally I find it hard not to think a certain pal of Moshiri is more involved.
By 2024/5 we will be in a state of the art multi purpose arena. I think we will be European regulars. Whether that is the CL or Europa I'm not sure.
Those that expected a "quick fix" have to look at when we started back on the journey to being a "big club" again. City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool & Spurs all had years on us. With serious investment. Only Arsenal had tightened their belts a little in the transfer market. Their decline is starting to show.
The bottom line is Moshiri has a monumental task to get us back on top. I think he is doing just fine.

Andrew, I have a recollection of an interview with Moshiri when he took over, that he said he would rely on Kenwright with respect to the club and his knowledge. I remember because of the alarm bells that rang when I heard it. I think after the Koeman debacle, Kenwrights illness and changes in the boardroom, Moshiri has a better handle on all things Everton. It's mute point to consider how much relying on Kenwright, in reality, cost Moshiri but I think he has a far better handle on decision making now.
But we lost time and he lost a barrow load of cash... clean breaks were called for but didn't (haven't) happen.

Christine, I remember that interview and I remember hoping he was just being polite and Kenwright was just going to become the mad old Uncle who rambles on about the old days at Christmas.

Andrew. (10), would agree that Kenwright could have looked after Moshiri, and his money, a lot better than he did, or did Moshiri place too much trust in Kenwright's supposedly football knowledge. I think if Kenwright looked after Moshiri's money as well as he looked after his own then Everton and Moshiri would've in a better place now. For the record I don't think Kenwright has a great deal of football knowledge, and I also know that what's done is done and can't be reversed,mores the pity.

So

Moshiri wanted a director of football
Moshiri wanted Koeman
Moshiri wanted Silva

Kenwright s fault for wasting Moshiri's money???

Regardless of all that has been said above, I admire Farhad Moshiri's commitment and nerves of steel.

Even if Alisher Usmanov with his fortune, is in the background, it takes guts and an iron will to pump all that money in without any sign of a return up until recently.

As our missing friend Phil Walling used to say - Randy Lerner gave up under similar circumstances.

I think that the debate about how much influence Kenwright had over how the money was spent, well I suspect we will never know and the only 2 people who do know the answer wont be divulging the answer. But moving on Moshiri has got the right man in charge to take this club forward, its just a pity we couldn't have got Ancelotti when we sacked Martinez. Given the money that those that followed Martinez have spent to keep the club in a worse position.

I read the other day that Ancelottis win rate is the best of any manager since Howard mk1. I think like all top coaches Carlo came into a club and took time to asses what he had got before rushing into the transfer market. The purchases he has made have improved the squad in Allan, Godfrey, Doucoure, James and Olsen so a plus on purchases.
The other thing he has improved is our defence and this despite only signing 1 back 4 player, the improvements have been through his coaching.
Many including me would not have objected if he had sold Keane or Mina, as both looked decidedly shaky before Ancelotti's arrival, but the difference he has made to Michael Keane is unbelievable and also the improvement in Mina is not far behind. Ancelotti also pays tribute to Brands in saying that Godfrey and Doucoure were not on his list of targets but agreed with Brands assessment and authorised both buys. So again a manager who is quite happy to acknowledge the role Brands played, cant think of too many managers who would do that.

I think Moshiri was being polite to Kenwright. He has taken more control. I doubt Kenwright has much say in who comes and goes anymore.
Whether or not Moshiri was badly advised. All the signings and managers had potential. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I remember 'Kendal out' & sack the board in the early 80's.
While some clubs have had a revolution like Chelsea & City. Ours is more of a steady evolution. It's easy to bemoan the fact that we haven't really kicked on from the end of the Moyes era. The reality is we are competing with half a dozen other clubs with new found wealth. Chelsea stole a march on the rest when Abramovich came. City upped the anti with Mansour. United, Liverpool & Arsenal all had a very strong financial base. Spurs were underwritten by Lewis. Wolves, Leicester & Villa have all received hefty financial backing.
The main problem we have isn't cash it's FFP.
City have blown that out of the water.

I wouldn't gauge anything on this most surreal season and think expectation should be tempered in the knowledge only Mansoor and Abramovich have transformed also-ran clubs both requiring unlimited funds. Clearly not the M.O of Mr Moshiri.

Just hope he does better than his "businessmen" peer group who happily started down the same road before having their trousers pulled down - Mike Ashley, The Venkys, Hicks and Gilette, Randy Lerner etc. The list of well heeled coming a cropper in footy is monumental.

Think he's put together a good management team around him now and just hope he gets the rub of the green (not Philip Green of course)

Kevin, exactly. And – if you believe rumours – Moshiri went against the advice of Kenwright to appoint Allardyce.

Andrew #17,

Was Allardyce a mistake or a necessary evil as a short-term fix?

A couple of points from me on this thread, Peter Johnson done more for Everton than Kenwright has. Johnson pushed through and funded the Park End stand, he also backed his managers in the transfer market Dacourt, Massarrati, John Collins all quality high profile signings at the time. Yes he wasn't perfect, but he only sold out due to dual ownership issues of Everton and TRFC. Also his Park Hampers company had cash flow issues. Johnson cashflow issues gave Kenwright the golden opportunity to purchase Everton for 20 million. What a return for Kenwright hey!! Kenwright cost Everton the original new stadium at the Kings Dock as he would not accept the finance deal Offered by ?? Mind slipping on his name because the director in question wanted all profits from non football activities notable concerts, and conferences. Kenwright went on to sell bellefield for housing at circa 7mill, then later sold Finch Farm and rented it back. So Johnson in my opinion offer and provided great financial support to Everton than what Kenwright ever has.

With regards Moshiris appointment of Allardyce that was Moshiris insurance policy to ensure his investment remained in the premier league.

HI Ian [19] who do you think benefited most, Everton or Tranmere Rovers? when Everton purchased Tony Thomas and Steve Simonsen at a time when Tranmere were struggling financially. If memory serves me right Peter Johnson had a foot in both clubs at that time.

Jason @ 18, I'm going to go with mistake.

I will admit that he we finished higher up the league than we probably would have done under Koeman, but I don't think Koeman would have taken us down and Unsworth was starting to get something out of the the team (4-0 vs West Ham).

The biggest mistake with Allardyce was sanctioning £50million in transfer funds to bring in Walcott and Tosun.

Ian, you are correct. It all went wrong for Johnson because his company Park foods was going bust. It was Paul Gadd who offered to bail out the Kings Dock project but Kenwright refused to stand down as chairman. Kenwright basically ran the club down for twenty years. Realistically he never should have taken over without the funds to take us forward. He realised this halfway through his tenure when he said you need to be a billionaire but still refused to stand down.

Andrew. (17), if you want to believe in rumours, I'll give you plenty concerning Kenwright, but that would get us nowhere,except to reflect that under his watch we have the worst period of winning honours in the long history of the club.

Andrew #21, I'm going to go with necessary evil. There are few good deals in January, we had a squad with no striker and no pace. Allardyce addressed both concerns with the slim pickings available. We stayed up and £50m cost less than relegation would have.

Clive 22

I think you mean it was Paul Gregg not Paul Gadd who offered to bail out Kenwright over the Kings Dock. Just a couple of things Gregg in bailing out as you call it wanted to be able to put on pop concerts and other such events, but he wanted that money to go to his company and not the club. Also when Gregg didnt get his wish he wanted out which was fair enough, but he also knew that the club couldnt afford to pay him the money he put into the club alongside his wife.

So he contacted his old friend Freddy Shepperd who was chairman of Newcastle and told Freddy if they offered £20 million for Rooney, then because of the financial mess Everton were in they couldnt turn it down. Which would mean they would then have the money to pay off him and his wife. As you know Rooney went to Man Utd, but as Alex Ferguson said that he was quite happy for Rooney to stay at Everton for another season before making a bid, but his hand was forced when Newcastle offered £20 million for Rooney.

Also despite any misgivings I have about Kenwright to say Johnson was a better chairman must be a wind up. He sold Ferguson to Newcastle without telling Walter Smith, you really think that constitutes being a good chairman. Also the stories of 1 or 2 players we lost because when trying to sign players he met them at Park Hampers not Goodison, the players found that a turn off to begin with.

Whilst we have a realistic shot at the top four we have to accept the fact that the squad is not yet ready for a quality run in Champions league.
We do have the basis of a squad that given a boost in certain areas particularly midfield would do themselves credit.

However you have to walk before you can run and the future does look very promising under the new regime.

There are many winnable games left although we may have to share the spoils against Spurs, Chelski, West Ham, City and Arsenal.
City however will have the league wrapped up by the end of may and may also be distracted when we meet them in the cup.

Lot's of possibilities but Everton can only take care of business in the next game which is tomorrow and put pressure on the teams above them.

John #24 Allardyce was only a necessary evil if you think Unsworth's performance was going to deteriorate over the rest of the season. Allardyce's League performance was no better than Unsworth's, despite having a lot more time to work with the squad, a lot more experience to draw on, & a transfer window to boost the squad. I'm sure Moshiri expected more from him than he was already getting from Unsworth.

Many still don't understand the role that BK played in the Everton saga. He was never the one in that he never had the financial clout to solve the very real problems that were always going to stop Everton moving forward. All he could ever do was to keep the club surviving and in that respect he was successful in a very close thing. Anybody who believed that BK could have and should have given Everton any form of success understands neither finance or football. BK did exactly what he said he was going to do and that was to act as a caretaker and hand over the reins when the right people came along which was exactly what he did. There is a massive buzz at the club now and we have just had an amazing week: this, I believe is a taste of things to come. Oh sorry, he made some money from his smartness, risk taking and very hard work. Well shame on him.

Can we give the let's blame Kenwright crap a rest now.

Dave 23 - we also have the 2nd longest sustained period of 8th place or higher league finishes under Kenwright since the 1800's. Swings and roundabouts.

John 24 - after £50million, we still had a squad with no striker, as well as a rapidly diminishing winger on astronomical wages with zero chance of re-sale. Definitely expensive mistake

Paul (#29), good luck in persuading Don Alexander and his acolytes of that.

Brian # 25,
Just a correction Paul Gregg did not want out he wanted Kenwright to resign as chairman. Kenwright refused and invented Fortress Sports fund with the infamous claim "The check will be in the bank in the morning" and thus maintaining his control. Paul Gregg who had previously been a good friend until he saw the fraudster close up then decided to sell his shares.

Kenwright does divide opinion but over 25 years we cant neglect to recognize the deceit, lies and put down of anyone who challenged him all to the detriment of EFC.

For the record Kenwright inherited a positive balance sheet which within 2 years he turned into a negative balance sheet which suggested he pulled 20m out of the club to pay Johnson off. He claimed he inherited a financial disaster and had to remortgage his house both of which have been proven to be total lies.

He then proceeded to fund his chairmanship by selling off all of Everton's assets including Rooney and putting a mortgage on Goodison Park,

Peter Johnson wasn't a great chairman but his legacy of enabling the Park end and funding transfers puts Kenwright (who has never put a penny of hos own money into the club) into context.

Paul, absolutely. It's now the time for us to stop peddling the Kenwright myths and to concentrate on the very positive and real things that are happening at the club.

Brian 25, that's it, Paul Gregg. When Johnson sold Ferguson, his company was already in trouble and it was a similar situation to Greggs in that he needed funds to bail it out. It could have been different had his company not been going down the pan.

Jay @ 32, good summary.

Kenwright received 22.75 million when he sold 13% of his 26% holding in 2016. He sold the other 13% in 2018 for an undisclosed amount. Not bad considering that, during the purchase of the club and his subsequent tenure, he did not invest one penny of his own money.

From a clinical business perspective, loading debt onto the club, mortgaging or selling the company's property, producing poor results yet making such a vast profit on sale would be seen as a stunning success story. For him that is. Of course, if those who disgagree have some commercials that they want to share to disprove this analysis then let's hear it.

Although I do agree it is time to move on from this avaricious charlatan and focus on the future.

Clive,

Johnson always swore that Walter already knew all about Duncan Ferguson's sale. Are you saying that he used the proceeds to get Park out of trouble, or am I misunderstanding you?

He had floated his company and the share price was plummeting, but he had already received the resulting funds, and his board seemed to let him down in his absence. Many of those shares were owned by his pension plan, which was a big part of the issue, from my understanding. He later bought the shares back, of course, and fired some directors.

We also still had Premiership status Kevin. I can't recall another team in the division playing worse than us and with so few options to try something different before Walcott, Tosun and Mangala's arrival.

Teams had to change the way they played us, with Walcott they couldn't just constantly attack us as we had a chance to catch them on the break. We needed a goal threat and I don't recall at the time missing out on any potentially better strikers than Tosun. Probably the pick of similar teams in the window being Islam Slimani's loan move to Newcastle, but that only resulted in him only making 4 appearances and no goals.

Kenwright did plenty wrong.

However, when he was selling assets such as finch farm and Rooney, he was doing so to keep the quality of players at the club as he couldn't fund this himself. Imagine what position we'd be in if we were forced to sell players to survive, or if we couldn't have invested in the likes of the Yak or Fellaini or Lukaku.

By selling assets him and Moyes kept us in the upper echelons of the premier league and thus made us a more attractive proposition for potential investment - ie Moshiri.

So what would we have preferred? Relegation struggles and potentially not Moshiri taking over - but owning Finch Farm

Or the position we're in now?

I know which I prefer.

The reality? Nobody posting on here has the faintest clue about what went on at the club during the time that BK has been in charge. What people can do though is add 2+2 and get 5. The problem is that 2+2=5 then becomes a fact for them which, as with the vast majority of the stuff posted about BK, is absolute nonsense especially when even the 2+2 was just gossip. Enough of the rubbish, the board is better than this and the day of the gossipers is past.

First off let's get this understood regarding the article, it does NOT "...provide(s) the opportunity for a psychological reset away from the neighbours."

Lost me right there but back to Moshiri, it was not an easy time to navigate a club to a competitive level in the premier league. Against albatrossian deadweight decision making he has put together a group that is creating momentum in appropriate measure.

Chris, 36, my understanding was that he used the Dunc money to pay back loans he made to the club. He needed the money to bail out Park foods.

On the topic subject I for one see that it could very well be Everton's time. Not to be a Man City but to at least dine at that top 4 table and acquit ourselves well in Europe. That is at a level that will give us pride in the club. For me this is shown not by the quality of the players that we buy but by the effect on the players we have that may have been considered worthless. Sigurdsson is the £45 MM we bought and possibly one of the first on Carlo's team sheet. Davies is a very valuable player now. Richie is just a beast, one of the best players I've seen at Everton and DCL has gone from £1MM to whatever the very best in Europe will pay for him. This is amazing business performance by the club to have increased the value of their assets to a replacement saving level of over £100MM? It is great to be a Blue.

John @5 agree that Moshiri needed proper advise from a team, not Kenwright with his misty eyed tales of the 60s and 80s.

However it has to be remembered Chelsea were winning silverwaire for a good few years before Ambromovic arrived. City already gained a shiny new stadium before the arrival serious backers with huge pockets.
Everton however had Moyes for 11 years, and with old Goodison aswell not attractive to top managers.

He sold everybody else too, Clive. He couldn't afford to bankroll the club at the same level, which meant the club couldn't afford Dacourt, Matterazzi et al, and sold them all at a profit. He'd already underwritten the share issue as well, and the new shop.

I'm not sure what happened to the cash after that, it may have been reimbursing loans to whatever degree.

He was personally upset about how much the Evertonians hated him, and felt he'd tried to do his best but circumstances were against him. Very chastened, but his business is still doing ok.

Chris, that is opinion as fact.

We are all in a better frame of mind since the RS game and the follow up win over the Saints but we have to improve the squad by next season.

It's no good bring back players who are out on loan etc. They are tried and tested but no longer fit into the scheme of things under Carlo.

We need another sure-fire striker as well as another midfielder of quality given what we have seen and maybe that Gbamin will never be fit.

We have DCL and Ritchie and apart from the odd goal from James and Gylfi very little else. We will struggle if any of the front two are missing again.

Kevin (38), the opportunities were there to sell the club well before Mr. Moshiri took over the club and took over the debts and mess the club had been left in by Kenwright, then there would have been no need to Rob Peter to pay Paul, and land us with people like Phillip Green who was brought into the club by Kenwright.

You were right though Kenwright did plenty wrong and gets a walkover by masses of Everton fans like those wrongs didn't happen or matter, they certainly did.

Martin,

That is a fact.

Kenwright himself is the source of most of the rumors around Johnson et al. He's like an old fish wife spreading stories in the terraces to make himself look good

Chris, a fact can be proven. Your opinion is unsubstantiated gossip.

Virtually everything stated about Kenwright above is gossip and ignorance. It needs us to ignore reality.

Good for you, Martin (#50). Quite right.

In this day and age, Martin, it seems there is no such thing as facts, even proven ones!

My information comes direct from several conversations with Peter Johnson, and also with his then CEO. Obviously you can take my word for this or not, I'm frankly not bothered either way.

Forget about gossip, let's deal in facts, and let's thank Kenwright for our unprecedented failure to put a trophy in the cabinet.

Chris, everything you have said has a ring of truth, and I am sure your facts are all correct.

Thanks Clive.

I never met him when he was a younger man on the way up, when he was, by all accounts, pretty hard work. At this time he was suffering from his removal from Everton, his car carrying supporters clinging to the back of it if you recall. He was also suffering from the downturn in his business at the same time, which led to him having to take up the reins again, at a time when he thought he might be able to take a back seat, a bit. I was an external consultant, so maybe he felt he could be a bit more open with me.

He was surprisingly open and approachable.”They hated me” was one of his comments, and he was clearly hurting and a bit surprised. It was difficult to dislike him to be honest.

His then CEO, Jim, who was an ex colleague and friend of mine, separately told me how badly he had been affected by his Everton experience. Mind you Jim was a red!

Chris (55), Peter Johnson used to walk around the ground before the game talking and asking fans their opinions of how they felt the team was doing, I spoke to him at least twice in the Lower Bullens Road, found him easy to talk to and he was a good listener, quite the opposite of Kenwright, who talked down to me and had an arrogance about him that suited his lack of manners on the one occasion I had the displeasure of talking to him.

I couldn't get a ticket for a Derby game at Anfield, wrote to Peter Johnson, explained my position to him, he wrote back saying if I posted him a cheque for the money, I would get a ticket in return, I posted the cheque, he posted the ticket, no problem.

Dave,

I hadn't realised he did that. He started off well, and having initially supported his managers, it all went pretty badly afterwards. I'll bet he wasn't so keen to walk around later on!

He had a bad relationship with Dave Prentice from the Echo, which he alludes to in his recent book. I know Johnson had come to dislike him intensely.

Nice of him to get you a ticket, and typical of him to get the money first. But you have to take as you find Dave, and we got on ok. I've met a lot worse than him in my career.

Chris (57), good advice Chris “ Take as you find”. Your friends enemies are not your enemies, is another one to note.

Regarding Dave Prentice, who I have a lot of time for, in his book about being the reporter for Everton's games over many years, he does write about Peter Johnson's dislike of him, putting it down to a personal issue, nothing to do with Everton or football, he also writes about Kenwright, but offers only praise and not a word of criticism despite knowing what went on in some of Kenwright's dealings, mind you that could've been Dave looking after his job.

I think whatever Johnson really thought of the club he was a businessman first and obviously understood customer service and it's value.

Kenwright comes from a different world and seems to think we all want to see a dyed in the wool blue getting all teary eyed at Wembley.

Thanks Dave,

I get all that stuff from my parents. Another couple are live and let live, and fair shares for all.

According to Peter, too, his issue with Dave P was personal. I've never met Dave, but I really enjoyed his book. Proper Evertonian by the sound of it and married to Dixie's granddaughter. How cool is that?

Chris, my apologies; much of what is said about BK has some tenuous basis in fact. My problem is the leap that some take from mainly trivial fact to allegation of misdemeanour. We have to remember key facts not trivia, BK was the owner of the club and free to do whatever he felt needed to be done for its benefit. BK has done exactly what he promised to do in providing sustainable finance, a new ground and the basis of a team with hope. He should be given the massive credit that he deserves for this.

'Chris, a fact can be proven. Your opinion is unsubstantiated gossip.'

Chris shares with us direct personal (factual and actual) exchanges with Peter Johnson with who he had a professional working relationship and it is dismissed as 'opinion' and 'unsubstantiated gossip'..?

'Virtually everything stated about Kenwright above is gossip and ignorance. It needs us to ignore reality.'

See post 28 as evidence of this.

So Martin, when posters present evidence supported by facts they are adding 2+2 and getting 5. However, when you present your opinions without facts you are adding 2 + 2 and getting let me guess... 4?

You do make me laugh.

If we were in so good a financial position thanks to Mr Kenwright, then what was the debt some of which came from unwise if not dodgy British Virgin Isles loans and/or arrangements with, what was his phrase, financial magician? – that Mr Moshiri took over or refinanced? Or was that just some sort of financial gossip and propaganda?