Ancelotti: We were lucky but deserved the win

I can't wait to see the team sheet for the Chelsea game, they were superb against the Dark Side. There is no doubt we will be hard to beat but, if we don't pass the ball better, then we are going to be in for a very long and hard night.

Surely it should be just the top 6? ;-)

We didn't concede a lot of opportunities until they scored at the end when they were offside. There we were lucky but sometimes you have to be lucky to win games.

I don't think it was lucky at all. If VAR didn't exist then the goal would have still been given offside as the linesman flagged, and nothing further would have been said. Besides, it was clearly offside, close, and a bit more than the two millimetres Allardyce is claiming it to be, but definitely offside.

The defence has been largely watertight. 3 clean sheets on the bouncy is fantastic work by our defenders and keeper.

Up front, Dominic is working his nuts off as usual for the team, Richarlison is finding top form.

It's the midfield that will make or break our challenge. We need Allan, Doucoure and Tom Davies fit to provide a rock solid stable midfield with a bit of class about it. Gomes can step in but I weakens us a little.

Then we need James Rodriguez to be fully fit charged and committed to deliver. Sigurdsson to his credit has been far better of late and could even mitigate any loss of James.

If these core players are fully fit we have a great chance.

One is class the other one is crass.

To see Carlo start his post match interview in a Lancashire accent saying - "my name is Carl Arkwright and I LOVE mash and peas " would have been sublime

Sam always has the opportunity to change his name by deed poll. Perhaps Sama L'Ardyce (complete with matelot tee shirt, black beret, a string of onions draped over the shoulder, a Gauloises ciggy hanging out of the side of the mouth, and gallic shrug).

Merde!

Win or lose, you will always hear him being generous in his praise of not only his players and his team, but also the opposition. Something you seldom, if ever, hear from the likes of Klopp or - as was very evident last night - Allardyce.

Yes, he said perhaps WBA deserved something from a game that was intense and in the balance. BUT! We won because we were better defensively.

Contrast that to the fellah on the other side going on...and on...and on about the penalty they should have been rewarded. I honestly couldn't recall the incident he was claiming was a nailed on pen until I watched back the highlights.

I guess he must have been referring to the follow up play from Jordan's amazing save in the opening minutes when Mason came together with Diagne.

There was absolutely nobody claiming it as a pen. On the pitch or the match commentators at the time. They didn't give it a second glance.

The only time in his tenure at Everton when I have heard Carlo publicly rebuke the team (never an individual player: even last night he talked up Iwobi's woeful performance) was following the Newcastle game. A rebuke well-merited.

Every pre-match presser, every post-match interview, he only speaks favourably about each and every individual player. It must be such a fillup to hear a manager of Carlo's standing speak in praise of you.

I'm really looking forward to who he selects and how he sets us up against Chelsea on Monday.

Proper manager.

Against lower league opposition we don't work hard enough. It might be the wrong attitude or team selection but missing out on top four won't be due to results against Chelsea or Liverpool.

If the team really believe top four is possible they must work harder. Against west brom we gave them to much space, taking risks and relying on lady luck based on their lack of quality. The work rate is improving as the results have shown but the is more to do before dreams become reality.

The attacker put himself offside. How we interpret luck is a matter of opinion, but to me that's not luck, that's poor thinking on the forwards behalf, he should be thinking about keeping himself onside, very difficult I know to think like that in a split second. You could say, or rather Allardyce could say, they were unlucky with the disallowed goal. At the end of the day, the attacker was clearly offside, so not lucky for us, but more poor judgment by the attacker.

Regarding the squad staying down in London since Thursday night. I only say this because, to me, the Ancelotti press conference for the Chelsea game was clearly carried out in front of one of those advertising boards players and managers do interviews in front of, and the one behind Ancelotti was one used at West Brom. It has their main sponsor “Ideal Boilers” all over it, the same way we have “Cazoo”. It just seemed strange to do a press conference in front of that board. Also I think Carlo normally does his press conference with a tracksuit on, yet he was wearing his Mac for this one, the one he appeared to wear for the game last night. Of course, I might have it all wrong, and the team came back to Merseyside last night. I also totally agree with what you're saying about self isolation, using other clubs training facilities etc.

All if this offside VAR stuff is probably going to get interesting and confusing all over again soon enough as IFAB have agreed to trial a new directive that Arsenal Wenger came up with, which proposes that “a player should be deemed onside if any part of them that can legally score a goal is in line with the second-last defender.”

Ever had one of those moments when you know what you want to say, but can't put it into words? Well this is one of those moments for me!

I thought WBA had has many chances as us, don't think our defensive play is organised and under control, we are forced back because the midfield is not strong or good enough still every game give the ball away, under little pressure, and put the opposing team on the attack, of course luck has paid a part in the last two games, a great save off Pickford on one and the complete failure of Pickford and the defence to stop the goal versus WBA, the players failure to stop his toe going too far saved us, not good play, WBA deserved a point from that game, I'm glad they didn't and I hope we keep getting the run of the ball and scoring the goals that keep us in contention for the top four will keep me happy.

But to say we are playing well, which we did in the Derby game to an extent, and luck hasn't played a part doesn't fit in with what I've been watching, but keep the same results coming. Just my own honest opinion.

We haven't 'got lucky' with any of our results this season. All our wins have been fully merited on the metric of the football played and the tactics employed.

We didn't 'ride our luck' v WBA. Other than Jordan's fantastic adjustment and save to Diagne's slow looping header in the opening two minutes, the only 'saves' he was obliged to make were from powder puff shots outside the area.

We didn't get 'a stroke of luck' on their disallowed goal. Their player was caught offside stepping beyond our defensive line. VAR only confirmed the infringement already flagged in real time by the lino.

We are not winning games 'more by luck than judgement'. We are winning games because the manager and his coaching staff have drilled and schooled a solid defence over hundreds of hours on the training ground, tied in to effective counter-attacking.

I can't recall any goal this season we have 'lucked out' on. I can recall many a goal scored with sharp incisive counter-attacking, passing and clinical finishing.

We didn't score v WBA due to 'a stroke of luck'. We scored because the manager subbed in Siggy, insisted he took the corner instead of Digne which led to Richy's goal.

I repeat what I wrote earlier. Carlo's post-match comments were him being typically gracious, in victory or defeat. He expressed sympathy to WBA, but he also clearly believed on the balance of play that we fully merited the win:

'We didn't concede a lot of opportunities until they scored at the end when they were offside...the game was in balance. It was a good game with a lot of intensity but we won because we were better defensively.'

Watching football now we cant celebrate a goal because we have to wait to see if VAR want to look to see if there is any reason why it can be chalked off. I admit before VAR came along when we scored I always looked to the linesman to make sure he didn't have his flag raised before I celebrated. But that took a second to check the goal would stand. Also now we see some linesmen reluctant to raise the flag and wait till the VAR official confirms it was offside. So the main purpose of the linesmen is greatly diminished and now it seems he only rules on throw ins.

Seems that the people making the rules want to take all decisions or as many as they can out of the hands of the on field officials. So VAR which we were told was for clear and obvious mistakes has become nothing of the sort, its now taken over every aspect so much so that now VAR are deciding who should be sent off, rather than the on field ref. I read that the accidental hand ball by Fulham that resulted in a goal but was ruled illegal will from June not be illegal. Its no wonder nobody understands the rules of the game anymore their even making changes in mid season.

Martin, luck happened against WBA when the team did nothing but stand still while the ball went over them and back to the West Brom player who scored, luckily he had strayed offside, the distance doesn't matter, what matters was the defence was very poor and got away with it and the hours and hours of training at Finch Farm didn't work,I don't see much of effective counter attacking either, but plenty of slow, and very slow build ups, unless they are going the other way, much quicker playing the ball backwards to the over worked Pickford, I bet his thighs need a good massage every day with all that kicking.

If you want to talk about luck, could it not be argued that Digne was unlucky his shot didn't ricochet off the post and into the net, rather than back on to Richy who was Johnny onthe spot having made the run to try and get on the end of Digne's cross-cum-shot?

Jay we are both happy Everton are getting through these games, we see them very differently, I think you watch Everton through blue-tinted glasses, Royal Blue, to be honest and many will think “what's wrong with that” fair enough, I think we are riding our luck, what's wrong with that?

What can't be argued about is, if those two games v Southampton and West Brom had been draws, which they both could have been on the balance of play, throughout the game, then the posts on both threads of those games would have entirely different, and there would have quite a lot more posts.

Being lucky is when you get caught by a decent clippy, who believes you when you tell him your story!

Being unlucky is when you meet a jobs-worth, who goes by the rules, and doesn't want to believe what you're telling him.

Everton won, a great result, but what a boring game of football, was my own honest view of the game.

'On the balance of play' Everton, it could be argued on the number of chances created, have won more comfortably v Southampton. Against WBA it was again Everton who, beside our legitimate goal, had more genuine chances inside their penalty area.

I am not 'blinded', as you are trying to infer, that I only see the good in Everton. My half-time and post-match comments consistently show I take an objective, not a partisan subjective view of proceedings, when watching Everton.

The only game I remember when our goal has been peppered was Leeds at home and we lost that one and it was an odd game as we had many chances too.

Clearly, it would be nice to play better like we were at the outset of the season but, since our blip, Ancelotti changed to being hard to beat and that's resulted in many 3 points and whilst it may not be pretty long may it continue.

The downside is we will lose some by the odd goal if not creative. Personally, I hope, after Chelsea away, we try and be a bit more creative.

The whole issue of VAR needs a serious look at. Personally, I'd bin it completely but I know it will now never happen as those in power have decided to introduce it and will not turn.

Someone will get seriously injured with VAR as it stands.

In an obvious offside decision the linesman does not raise his flag until the move is complete. What happens whilst this move continues someone gets tackled and gets a serious injury? All because the play is allowed to continue. Ridiculous!

Please see my dictionary definition of 'luck' and the reality that there's actually no such thing.

In the incident vs West Brom that you quote Everton were playing within the rules trying to stop West Brom from scoring, which we did as they broke the laws. No "luck" involved at any time; the outcome was a valid outcome of random play. Even the rebound in from the goalie on the line wasn't luck, the ball rebounding off the bar was exactly what it can do and the goalie being on that spot was exactly correct.

The ball rebounding into the net was not only an event which could happen but it did. Just a low-probability happening as they sometimes do. If luck is real, what is it? A force? Some kind of spirit? A field? How did it make the ball go in off the goalie? Belief in luck is superstition, surely?

Martin, never mind the dictionary, watch the replay, Everton defenders did nothing, stood there, never tried to stop them scoring, Keane never even jumped, which might have put their player off, he was still standing there with three or four Everton defenders still standing there when the WBA player stuck it in the net, give them their due two or three of them moved into action, throwing their hands up appealing for offside, brilliant reactions coming alive like that, but that's football, luck or no luck, hope they get the same result at Chelsea. COYB

What's also amazing is the feel-good factor he's generated. The buzz around the club at the moment, that' we are a team other teams need to worry about, we've not had that in a generation. Even under Moyes, good sides we've always 'known our place'. Not under this chap. These days, Guardiola releases statements saying he wants to be more like the Everton manager. What a great time to be a blue.

Luck and the concept of it is subjective and like humour doesn't really lend itself to analysis.

I won a bet by West Brom beating Brighton. I consider that WBA were very lucky winners and I shared that luck. If the word was replaced by, say, "fortunate" would that change things?

It is a very fine line between winning and deserving to win. I thought WBA absolutely did not deserve to beat Brighton so how did their victory come about? Lucky?

I think we just about deserved to beat WBA and if we beat Chelsea 1-0 with a similar performance I will have my view confirmed that good defending often looks frantic and that looking like we are hanging on is by choice.

The big difference with regards to the West Brom offside goal was that the linesman flagged for offside, which was confirmed by VAR, but again, if VAR didn't exist, that goal would still have been offside because of the linesman flagging.

Well, on a philosophical level, 'luck' of course does exist.

On a mathematical level, any event can be described as lucky or unlucky if it is improbable. So Traore's goal which hits the crossbar and rebounds off the keeper into the goal is definitely lucky or unlucky depending on your viewpoint.

So 'luck' is purely a subjective concept? It isn't real – otherwise, we'd find it somewhere and how is it transmitted and how is it received and turned into action?

Surely superstition from an age when low-frequency events weren't thought possible without an external influence, such as God or Luck?

For me, when the idea is to win the game that luck can ever be a reason that this is achieved?

If you're an Everton player, and you hear the manager say this is “my team” because they've got a tremendous will, and loads of spirit, then it should only make you feel even better about yourself.

So hopefully the players can get something at Chelsea, before we go back to mostly playing only one game a week.

How that will affect us is anyone's guess, but I imagine it'll be the making or breaking of us. I think we have reason to be cautiously optimistic. The players are young and hungry, and they seem to respect Ancelloti.

Also, as Coleman pointed out, they aren't caught up in the past; this club is very much about their own careers right not, and less of a stepping stone than it was in the past.

Regarding the match, one look at the table tells you how important that win was. Also regarding the luck thing, we were a bit lucky, though I think the forward who was caught offside made a small error there. You can see an Everton player run out from the back to catch him offside just before the ball is played.

As for the penalty call, those things are very frustrating when you don't get them, but he had his back to goal and didn't really have full control of the ball, they never give those. It's not on the highlights, so I'm relying on memory. I thought the main difference was Richarlison. He's a player with a bit of class about him (as does Calvert-Lewin who'll be kicking himself for not scoring in that game), and I think the frustrating thing for West Brom is that Diagne isn't quite as good as either of them.

What impresses me most is that he's not rigid on systems. He makes the decision to win the game. He's a sly old fox that would make it hard for a rival manager to plan for. Whilst he's able to change our team set up in game to make a real difference.

Back him in the transfer window over the next 2 windows, and we might have a team worth talking about.

The only snag is that fuckin' wordchecker! I'm sure he takes the piss out of me with some of the words he replaces mine with, or does that happen to everyone?

Anyway another win on Monday will keep us all happy, I think!!!

That's all we mean by 'luck'. It's just a shorthand for saying something happened or didn't happen, influenced by factors beyond our control, that was or was not favourable to me.

In this respect, saying we were 'lucky' is just another way of stating that the particular event favourable to us happened. And in this sense, it conveys no information, since we already know that the event occurred. So talking about 'luck' is futile, because it gives no insights into any systematic reasons for sequences of events being favourable or unfavourable to us.

All we can currently say with any real meaning is that we're playing well enough to be where we are in the table, through a combination of the talents of the players we have and the management of Ancelotti and his assistants. Any other statements, on the quality of our football and contributions of individual players, are purely subjective and emotional based on our aims as Evertonians.

Just enjoy where we are, because we've certainly had enough experience of not enjoying where we are!

Correct, Stan. Luck is a word that can be used to describe an unlikely event which works to our favour or more likely which somebody else uses to describe the event. We're never lucky ourselves. Interesting word .

I still reckon we weren't lucky with the West Brom disallowed goal though!!!

Dale @60: Exactly, it's noise. What we want is the signal, not the noise. The signal has been that we've been mediocre for too long, and now the signal is that we seem to finally be getting somewhere. We need to forget the noise.

That's why Utd get lots of lucky penalties - because they spend time in the oppositions box.

That's why we get a few pieces of luck defensively - because we obviously work hard at keeping organised.

I've just had a text saying Doucouré has got an ankle problem, and was wondering if anybody else had heard such a rumour?

Apparently, the etymology of etymology itself is relatively straightforward. Etymon means "origin of a word" in Latin, and comes from the Greek word etymon, meaning "literal meaning of a word according to its origin." Greek etymon in turn comes from etymos, which means "true". :-)

Actually, if I include a copy of this thread, they may just agree!

There is a systemic reason for their state this season, and I have red mates who say so. It's because Klopp has had a Plan A which has worked up to this season. But Plan A is no longer working, and he doesn't have a Plan B. He's tried other plans in knee-jerk ways, but they don't work. Only Plan A worked, but it no longer does, so they're simply shite.

But Klopp won't say this, and instead retreats to claim ‘bad luck'. That is never a good idea, and ultimately fools nobody.

Similarly, it's never a good idea for us Evertonians to put any circumstances favourable to us down to luck, just as it would never have been a good idea to explain our past failures on bad luck.

There are reasons why we win games, systematic ones, and we need to recognise that and say so.

I believe that we're going to get some luck for next season with the return of Gbamin, a new player we've just bought.

Btw read this on Twitter:

The fella at Anfield who presses the goal noise button has been furloughed.

Is it petty to wish for one more successive home defeat so grinning blues can raise 6 fingers back to them for eternity?

We didn't play that well but I certainly think we were worthy of the 3 points!

Looking forward to Carlo and the team hopefully banishing another dismal away record (at Stamford Bridge) on Monday like we did at Anfield! Then there are 3 winnable games and the FA Cup Quarterfield to look forward to!! The nerves will be off the scale but I'm feeling positive!

A match-fit Gbamin ready for the Premier League would be a minor miracle, here's hoping.

Charles Lindbergh, Charlies Luciano and Lord Lucan were all nick-named Lucky but they didn't have much luck.

Dont fuck with luck or you'll come unstuck!!

People say there is no such thing as luck, how did Ant and Dec get so far in show business, it definitely wasn't down to talent, must have been that thing that people on say there is no such thing as.

Okay, but I make the same point. They're not weirdly constrained, just differently constrained.

Re your point about Newtonian physics, a football match, like much of life, is influenced by non-linear effects that ‘Newtonian physics' doesn't encompass, including deterministic chaos. So really, again, trying to explain outcomes in terms of luck is quite pointless.

Which brings me back to the primary importance of systematic influences that affect our results, and which place a consistent signal over the noise of randomness. Such systematic influences are the signings we made this year, combined with having Ancelotti as manager, and his adaptive tactics that have catered for injuries. It's because of those systematic factors that we seem to be making progress, finally.