Premier League vow repercussions as rebel clubs announce European Super League

Sky Sports News breaking with strap line expecting announcement on "proposed breakaway football league - the European Super League".

Just read that Mike. I still think Uefa and Fifa hold the cards here.

Threaten them, and their players, with a 5-year ban from domestic and international competitions. Kick them out of their domestic leagues and see how long “overseas fans” are willing to watch Liverpool play Real Madrid. It will become very repetitive after a season, a sort of glorified SPL.

If they want to join the Europa Super League, tell them they can go, but they will never be allowed back into the Premier League or domestic competition.

Fans will be bored to death of it after a season or two and the business model will slowly fail due to not meeting the expectations for TV revenues.

Good riddance to the greedy, anti competitive cartel.

Colin, most of you folks over there would know more about this than I would, but personally I don't get the feeling that UEFA and FIFA would be able to prevent this from happening.

Yes, the Prem could kick out the Big 6 for doing this, but then would likely be required to refund millions in TV rights fees. The entire English league would take a financial hammer blow, would it not? And wouldn't the England team be devastated by the banning of Maguire, Stones, Kane, Rashford, Sterling, Foden, Mount, Walker etc. etc. etc.? Would England take the chance of suddenly becoming a World Cup irrelevancy?

I agree the Super League will likely fail, especially without Barca, Bayern, PSG and the Germans, but the collateral damage will be substantial.

When does the TV contract with the Premier League expire as those teams wanting to join this "Super League" might be in breach of contract if they walk away or refuse to field a full strength side, not to mention the TV companies relay agreement with overseas broadcasters. Has there been any indication of a possible start date?

Well Gary Neville doesn't seem to approve of it. The six clubs who have signed up for it "Should be ashamed of themselves". It's greed, nothing else. Also said are Arsenal one of the teams involved, and if so why? They have just drawn at home to Fulham!!

The Grauniad says "The Times reported that Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham have agreed to join the new league. The only member of the “big six” not to have signed up is Manchester City, the paper said, citing sources with knowledge of the development".

Uefa confirm any clubs joining a European Super League will be banned from playing in their own domestic cup competitions, and any players banned from representing their countries. So go on, Fuck off and enjoy your 32 or 34 games per season. I really hope they go.

Brent, it baffles me as to why Spurs think they should be part of all this? They have done nothing to warrant being a part of it.

Mike, it's a game of bluff but, in the end, they are in a tiny minority. The threat of an international and domestic ban is enormous as they know a league of this size will eventually wilt and die.

Yes there will be enormous financial disruption but they could end up ruined if their financial backers (JP Morgan or Morgan Stanley?) get cold feet and back out.

I think now is the time to strike and break up this Cartel and the supremacy of agents. It could be a golden opportunity to reform football from top to bottom.

It will happen and, on this occasion, I'm glad Everton don't dine on the top table.

Have Uefa not run this past Greta Thunberg? She'll be fuming.

What would happen to the current U23 squads of these super league clubs as well? Banned from the current Premier League 2?

And any young lad joining the academy of one of these clubs might be cutting their own throat by limiting who they could later sign for?

And would established players be less inclined to sign for one of these "super" clubs if they knew that they might not personally be successful but see themselves banned from the Premier League and other national leagues?

Would love to see them go; then see the initiative fail; then see the "little 6" beg to be taken back - into the third or fourth tier.

Rob - and Arsenal in their current state?!

Uefa and other footballing authorities should take a strong stand on this.

Let them go and start a European Super League in the knowledge it will be like going abroad to fight for Islamic State. A one-way ticket. Don't come back, scumbags.

(And the RS can take their missile-hurling low-life with them as well).

Mind you, it's a big opportunity if you are in the prawn sandwich business...

Looks like there may be an announcement tonight about the European Super League. Give it a couple of years and they will be kicking themselves, especially when only one of the big forces can win the Competition.

If they do take it up, then they should be excluded from the Premier League, allow clubs some leniency on the fair play league.

Then if they come back after a few years, with their tail between their legs, other clubs would have had time to strengthen their squads, to give them a fairer chance in the future.

This could play right into our hands, at the right time.

They will never give up the golden goose that is the Premier League. They will certainly want both to maximise revenue.

Whether they get the deal that they want will be down to the remaining Premier League clubs having the courage to kick them out. Along with the resolution to resist bribery and corruption in all its guises.

If it means a hit in finances and some disruption it will be well worth it to see them go for good.

For the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool the Premier League as it stands is becoming far too competitive for their owners liking.

This is all about getting rid of that nuisance competition that may see a fall in income.

I wonder how RS fans would feel finishing 6th or 7th each season in the new Super League? Likewise, how would we feel winning the Premier League without the so-called Big 6? I personally wouldn't find it too enjoyable knowing our competition for the league was West Ham, Wolves and Leicester.

I hope it doesn't happen as it could be damaging for BMD and obtaining funding/sponsorship but think those gobshite clubs will probably negotiate a greater cut of TV deals as a compromise if they stay.

Kerry Packer, that's all I will say. This won't happen but the clubs involved should be heavily fined once they waved the white flag.

Didn't Donald try and set up a rival league to the NFL? Didn't the Chinese pay millions to entice the best players and managers to the orient?

This project will be dead in a few days now that all the major leagues have come out against it.

Mike, the RS missile hurling low life will probably go on the rampage in Europe every other week, and eventually get the club banned from that league as well. Now wouldn't that be great, a club with no league to play in, as they would be banned from everywhere. Bring it on!!

Rob, if Fifa ban these players from representing their countries, I think the Super League teams will lose them. Can you imagine Cristiano Ronaldo and Bruno Fernandes blowing off the Portugal national team a year before the World Cup? Any chance that Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Raheem Sterling, Van Dijk, Alisson, Lukaku, De Bruyne and Donnarumma would sit out the tournament just to make this club fantasy happen? Would Messi destroy his legacy this way? No chance.

And not just the superstars. As a US fan, I can guarantee you that Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Steffen would be out of their clubs so fast they'd leave skid marks... and so would all the South American players in the Super League rosters. On this side of the Atlantic, the biggest dream of all is the World Cup.

And further to my post, am I correct in saying Uefa administer the coaching qualification framework?

So that they could in future, in a retaliatory move, revamp the qualification framework, demanding additional "skills" from coaches; with all coaches having to requalify; but with Uefa then refusing to let any Super League coach be retested, thereby disqualifying them from any future coaching role in the Premier League or any other national league?

Or could that be challenged in the courts? Restraint of trade and all that?

Rob - I'd say being the Champions League runners-up in 2018-19 is a fairly decent and recent enough claim for involvement in what is a despicable and self-serving example of footballing mutiny. Are the world's richest clubs really so desperate for even more of the pie?

You can forget Bramley-Moore Dock if this is true.

Never mind the coaches, Brent.

Do it with the agents' licenses and the problem is over.

Guys, this isn't a case of the super rich just doing what the hell they want to! All the teams involved are under the umbrella of their domestic leagues, uefa and, ultimately, FIFA.

If they want to go rogue I'm sure they are rich enough to survive, on their own, for a year or two but the sanctions would be crippling. Their players would be excluded from all competitions. They would lose sponsors and endorsements plus millions of fans who are also sickened by their greed.

If the domestic leagues remain firm these clubs will eventually throw in the towel. I hope they are punished accordingly ie massive fines, points deduction even relegation once they come crawling back.

Interesting bit in The Observer live feed of the Man U game:

53 min: Mary Waltz is vexed. “My boss at the time I got into football, a Indian British ex-pat, introduced me to the Premier league. NBC had started their coverage stateside. He was a United fan but he told me you have to pick a team. Everyone in my circle were United, Liverpool, big six fans. That seemed too bandwagony for my tastes. I read a Guardian story about Everton setting up a walk-in centre for their locals with mental health issues. That actual connection to their fans in the community, not just writing checks but actually being involved with their people, sealed the deal for me, that's the team I want to follow. This super league is the exact opposite of that ethos, it's naked greed and it's disgusting.”

Ian, they'd be building a stadium for the new Premier League title favorites!

So, Mike: any involvement in the super league gets you banned from all of the national leagues: agents; coaches; first team players; academy players; referees.

Colin #72 "I hope they are punished accordingly ie massive fines, points deduction even relegation once they come crawling back".

Colin, presumably they could only be relegated from a league if they were a member of it. With them having left the Premier League, don't allow them back, other than in the EFL lowest division.

Brent, if they really do this then yes! They can return but to the Championship!!

I honestly don't think these people have really thought this out. It might just be a ploy to get more of the tv money but as some have said, can you imagine the likes of Kane, Neymar, Mbappe, Ronaldo etc... being banned from representing their countries in World Cups?

Wow the extremes the RS will go to so that they avoid losing to Everton at Anfield again.

Is this just a bargaining chip for the fat cat clubs? Threaten to set up on their own, and the FA/UEFA etc will agree to guarantee them places in the CL for five years at a time, no matter where they finish in the domestic leagues? At which point, they'll play their squaddies in most games, saving the top names for the bigger CL and PL games when they're playing another fat cat club?

So the PL will survive but at the same sort of cost that the FA Cup has survived - the big clubs putting out second string teams for the games considered less important.

It's all a bag of shite really.

Andrew,

If Spurs getting to the final of a cup competition (because that's all the Champions League is) warrants inclusion in a European Super League, then fair enough. A club that has only won its own domestic league twice, the last time being 60 years ago, a club who, in the time since our last piece of silverware, have won two league cups. Their inclusion is simply because they managed to qualify for the Champions League for about five or six seasons (plus their new stadium), though I think it will be a long time before they qualify again, should this super league fall through.

If this is the same plan put together by the odious Charlie Stillitano, the US radio presenter, then it's bound to fail. He was pushing the league a while back as an NFL styled closed shop format, that would bring endless amounts of money to the clubs.

It was very much an American based idea that doesn't take into consideration the importance of fans, especially away supporters. In the NFL and other American sports, away fans traveling en masse is unheard of, mainly due to the size of the country. Can you see 4-5,000 RS traveling to Spain or Italy every other week? The cost for fans is going to kill any away support in the first season.

It's interesting that Man City are the 6th club mentioned, but haven't signed up for it. They can probably see the damage it will do to their City Football Partnership projects if they join up. Also, their owners are involved with FIFA so that wouldn't go down too well. Also the owners have more money than Scrooge McDuck and don't really need anymore.

We'll all be watching for developments.

I am less sanguine than some of you about this being prevented. After all, there were plenty of bleats from the old Football League when the Premier League was first mooted in the 90s.

We saw what happened (and at the time our own Mr Carter was one of the five who made it all happen).

Ian, what a horrible thought... Peel selling the Bramley-Moore Dock land to the Red Shite.

Sooner the better

Gary Neville absolutely vitriolic in his criticism of the super league idea. Spoke very passionately and convincingly.

Champions League group stages are boring as fuck to the neutral; I see Uefa want to extend it to from 6 to 10 group games... borefest. The other breakaway clubs doing similar format, absolutely no interest for any neutrals, but I suppose it will appeal to all the glory hunters in Asia.

I'll tell you what we'll do, Premier League, we'll stay if you give us an even bigger share of the TV money, or allow us to make our own TV deals.

How does that sound?

Done deal.

Chris, that's the game being played. Who blinks first?

Basically Chris, that's the idea. The established leagues have a golden opportunity to put these greedy sods in their place, once and for all.

If the Germans, French and Barca (fan owned) don't join this will be even shittier than originally thought. Let them all just fuck off!!!

Unsurprisingly the only ones excited about it on social media are the glory hunting ‘experts' from the 2 continents that aren't Europe and RS fans. Both group of fans that wouldn't go to watch a single live anyways.

Gary Neville 100% correct with what he says. Fine the club's involved, deduct points and even relegate them. The biggest culprits being Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal. Spurs? He couldn't care less about them as they don't warrant a place in the Super League.

Announcement at 21:30 tonight.

Give them the ultimatum - either ditch the idea in 2 hours or they're all banned from English football tonight and even if they fall in line deduct 20 points for being slippery little toerags.

I hope they go tbh

Rob,

The filth can see themselves struggling to finish top four over the coming seasons. This is their way of covering that. A club with no moral values have stooped even lower.

This is the Anfield club smashing the windows of the Premier League coach.

They aren't going anywhere, it's a Wednesday night competition and they still play Premier League games. To be honest they have big enough squads. Shit bags all of them.

The one thing you can say with certainty is that m'learned friends will become even richer. I'm fairly sure that these clubs involved, with their resources, will be very clear about the legal issues.

This has been bubbling away for years with these clubs, although the timing, it must be said is odd. Maybe the owners are pissed off they can't take as much from the various debt arrangements.

Or maybe they think that all the domestic fans have been educated in watching football with no crowds, which is of little value to these clubs commercially, in any case.

Or maybe they don't give a fuck.

Thomas, that club couldn't care less about local fans, they're more interested in their global fan base, after all, that's where most of the merchandise etc finds it's way. This super league will guarantee them millions, with or without fans in the stadium, because it's a cert all games broadcast will be on a PPV basis. You imagine how many across the world are going to subscribe to it? It's the same with man Utd, Barcelona and Real Madrid. The money will just roll in through subscriptions.

Paul # 48. You're wrong there.

For the clubs to play in the European Super League, they need the Premier League's permission, which will naturally be refused, meaning the only way is to break away from the Premier League altogether.

Rob, "they need the Premier League's permission, which will naturally be refused, meaning the only way is to breakaway from the Premier League altogether".

And their U23 squads get kicked out of the Premier League 2. So who do they play? Where's the competition for them?

That's their problem Brent. They will have to play friendlies against each other I suppose. Or have a super league 2!

I loath the Champions League and have not watched a televised game in 15 years. Please let them go never to return. To me, the current format is as far as I would want it to go, which is too far already. Things sort themselves out in time. I would rather watch Everton play in a proper domestic league than see them join football's Harlem Globetrotters.

Of course it's already all about money now but what is proposed is fundamentally different. Every fan in the land can aspire to European football however unlikely the prospect. Now the rich want to shut the door and keep themselves safe in an utterly artificial club which will be as authentic as Jeux Sans Frontieres.

Oh please go, take all that is rotten with you, and let us keep our game. Imagine international football without them My God we might even watch it.

Tell them they are going down a one-way street and fuck them off forever.

Interesting reading comments on Man Utd and Liverpool sites I would say a slight majority against with those in favour being of the "global" fan variety. One clown gleefully proclaiming "give it a go we can always come back!!"

Can't wait for the owners of both clubs to fill their pockets with tv and sponsorship monies then announce the "franchises" are moving lock stock and barrel to the US.

The supposed "rich" European clubs have been running this up and down the flag pole for years. Looks like they are finally going to put up or shut up.

Uefa and the domestic leagues have to present a united front and face them down. If they want to go, then go... but they and their players will be banned from all competitions both domestic and international until they are brought to heel.

The whole idea is a disgrace. Greed of the worst kind.

Brent #52, I think they'd just leave for the leagues.

Exactly like any player who wants to play in the World Cup.

These "super" clubs could be shells of themselves in a year.

Let them all go. I will still be able to watch Everton in a competitive league. Have they not even recognised that in a post covid, more environmentally aware world, international travel may be severely restricted? Liverpool playing Man Utd for 7th position doesn't sound very appealing. It'd quickly become a league of repetitive dead rubbers anyway.

Anyone notice the common denominator of the Euro Super League? The vice chairmen are Kronke, Henry and Glazer! You can sell your soul to the devil! What the fuck do they know about football... oops, if I say 'soccer' maybe they will get the picture!

"If this were to happen, we wish to reiterate that we – UEFA, the English FA, RFEF, FIGC, the Premier League, LaLiga, Lega Serie A, but also FIFA and all our member associations – will remain united in our efforts to stop this cynical project, a project that is founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever."

Taken from UEFA statement.

Good for them

This would be the death of football as we know it. Genuine fans of the 'top 6' are as enraged as anyone else so no complaints about them. It's the fat cat owners I hate. No love for the traditions of the game. If Bill and Moshiri had voted for this I'd never have forgiven them.

Fair play to Gary Neville for his comments. Spot on!! Sky in a strange position because you know they'd be the first TV company to sign up to show it. Awful day for football.

Julian, sky might well be the first to sign up to show it, but it will be Pay per View, via the Sky Sports Box Office channel. It will be not affect the normal Sky Sports channels. I bet each game could easily cost £20 - £25 to watch.

Rob correct. To be honest I'd sooner watch milk cart racing from Iceland on Eurosport 2 than pay to watch anything from this 'Super League'.

Rob, to watch the pay-per-view stuff on TV (as opposed to desktop, iPhone, tablet etc), would you need to also subscribe to the usual Sky Sports stuff? If so, this will be extra cost for super league fans? Another £20 / 25 each week or fortnight (home and away)?! Are they going to get that many subscribing?!

The FA started all this by setting up the Premier League.

Fucking about with the relegation system to create more revenue and selling the rights to Sky exclusively, they are reaping what they have sown... greed and global marketing at the expense of the "lower clubs".

Saying that... I hope the so called "Big 6" fuck off.

Same here Julian. I won't be watching any of it, as will have zero interest in it.

I really really hope this happens. Let's get back to proper football games without the Sky Six, and as a bonus after 2 years when it doesn't work, which it won't, we as a whole do not let them back into the fold. 😜

To those living in England, have you heard of any canvassing of the involved clubs' fan-bases? This seems an odd thing to do if it goes against supporters' wishes.

Brent, the sky sports box office is entirely different to all the other sports channels, so doesn't affect your subscription in any way. In effect you "Pay on the day". But I assume you need to be a sky subscriber to get the PPV. I'm only guessing at £20 - £25 per game, could be a tenner, could even be free, but I doubt that very much. One thing's for certain, at whatever cost there will be enough idiots worldwide who will pay it.

I still don't think this will be passed because the Premier league and UEFA simply won't allow it. If they do go ahead without permission. It could be a blessing in disguise as long as the governing bodies don't enable the super league by allowing matches with other clubs from the Prem etc.

If the players aren't picked for their national teams and the super league is isolated so they can only ever play each other in competitive games it will eventually fail. Meawhile, Everton would be then biggest club left in the Prem and would play in Europe every season, but no more derbies!

There's a lot of conjecture, but I still don't see how this can go ahead unless the said clubs exile themselves, which may do them more damage in the long run

So, if they get kicked out of the Premier League permanently, the Super League business model doesn't work, does that mean they go bankrupt and disappear ? Does L4 need a new Tesco Supercentre?

Andy Crooks - couldn't agree more. I regard the "Champions" "League" (it consists mostly of clubs which are not champions and it's decided by a cup-style knock out competition) in the same way as I regard Radio 1.

For those of a younger disposition, in the mid-1960s there was for the first time ever a set of decent radio stations playing modern music people wanted to hear. The BBC transmitted nothing of the sort. Tony Benn then brought in the 'Marine Offenses Act' which effectively closed down the pirates, and we got shitty Radio 1 in their place. I have never listened to Radio 1 (or any of the other crap spinoffs, though I do listed to Radio 3 most days and It's my default in the car- unless they're playing jazz), and will never do so.

The legacy of the debâcle of British radio is the plethora of indistinguishable FM garbage. I should be delighted if the legacy of this US-owner, greed driven strategy is the demise of these horrible clubs (and the bankruptcy of the owners), and their revival under some kind of German-style fan-ownership structure, with the main competitions being national (I have no idea who won any of the Spanish, Italian, Greek or "Champions" leagues last year, and I couldn't care less).

James @68,

I doubt a single club has bothered. They don't care about the local fans, that's not where the money's at.

This league is targeting worldwide plastic fans who are rabid to watch football of the big name teams. They are just thinking about the huge TV contracts from the middle and far east that by far exceed the amount they get from season tickets and matchday income.

They'll jack up ticket prices to, to accomodate all the plastic tourist fans coming in from around the world to watch the league as well.

James @ 68.

Football is now massively global, they don't give a flying fuck about local fans, it's product and revenue driven.

Hence why we take the piss out of our Norwegian neighbours. Saying that, a new level of footballer has emerged over the past 10 years, one which sees money as success and not trophies. Look at Neymar, Suarez and a host of others for that matter.

The last 16 of the Champions League is quality. Watching Everton v Brighton then Bayern v PSG is like chalk and cheese the gulf in quality is huge. If this happens how do we get on board?

Would you really want to Paul, think about it for a minute.

The people involved are billionaires and they didn't earn their fortunes through stupidity. Yes, they may be greedy but there must be more to this. As others have already stated, sounds like they are trying to blackmail the Premier League.

Any such league will end up as a last payday for ageing stars who no longer play internationals. I really can't see it happening, doesn't seem to have longevity to it.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear of changes being made to the Premier League as a result of all this. Hope not though. And praying that the Premier League has the balls to stand its ground.

Paul, I wouldn't expend the energy to push a remote control button to watch Bayern v PSG. But if it was on my television and was part of this disgusting enterprise, I would actively turn it off.

The only time I have deliberately watched Bayern Munich (who, to their great credit do not seem to be part of this US-mafia led enterprise) was in 1985.

Take the rogue English clubs to court for breech of contract and fine them for millions and bleed them well financially and then assign them to banishment in their fairyland.

No football fan who knows and loves the game would support such a crass idea. It's against the spirit of the game and sport, and would drive a massive undertow of ridicule and miss trust if the Premier League, FA, Uefa and Fifa don't take appropriate action to this football circus.

But let's see what the respective bodies do and if they plan to take action with maximum impact and effect immediately. Let's hope so and then we shall see.

Interesting no German, and Dutch clubs have shown alignment to this idea. Obviously the fact that most clubs, if trading as a true plc, on trade only would be bust years ago.

Raises questions on the motives etc and the cartel behind this. Players themselves would lose their development potential and it would be boring and stale after a season.

A glorified Scottish Premier League, in Europe and seriously how would fans be able to attend all these away legs?

I really hope the powers that be name and shame these clubs and whack them brutally where it hearts most.

Is there a timeline for a judicial challenge by the Premier League, Uefa, and Fifa, as I would expect a counter plan ASAP. Stand firm and ban these traitor clubs and their players and send them to sporting banishment.

Selfish, dirty self centred gang of lice clubs. Fekkn send them to their self-inflicted demise. This potentially could open up for a pan-UK League, which has been on the draft agenda for donkies years.

Interesting times, but now to beat Arsenal.

John Henry over at Furlough FC and the other yanks at United and Arsenal can't start a European League and supersede the European governing body, unless they completely exile themselves in an isolated 20 team league that will eventually fail.

No, I see this proposed league as brinkmanship and a threat so Uefa revamp the existing Champions League so these "so-called" big clubs get to play each season, even if they don't make the top 4.

They could always "Yank it up" properly by setting up a minor league and having a draft system.

What's the bet they want to play 2nd teams in the Premier League.

In the words of Kevin Keegan..."I would love it, love it" if this comes to fruition.

Gavin, I suspect you have a point there. The likelihood of Arsenal, Spurs and the RS getting into the top 4 looks minimal this season, so they will be looking for leverage to get UEFA to give them permanent slots in some way.

I'd go for a 5-year ban and a 3-division national demotion on any club that didn't withdraw from this within 24 hours.

David, why would you love it if this happens?? If it was allowed in the context you say, it would be completely detrimental for EFC.

If it did happen, I think they should be completely blacklisted from UK football.

Gary Neville – Take a bow!! Spot-on analysis.

This won't happen. At the end of the day, the clubs involved will back down as the consequences brought upon them by the various European leagues, along with Uefa and the corrupt Fifa will create far too many barriers for the clubs to overcome.

They will however cause the same authorities to come to a compromise on many financial issues irking these owners and I suspect like others that such a goal is their real and ultimate aim.

There will be fuss and arguments but it's all part of a game of smoke and mirrors.

For being frank and honest, I applaud Gary Neville for his summary and scathing of his own club, and the rest of the traitor clubs.

Let's hope Fifa, Uefa, the Premier League and the UK government take this shower to the cleaners.

12 clubs, no promotion or relegation, not allowed to enter any other national FA, Uefa or Fifa competitions, no German or French clubs. Let them go and see how long it lasts...

Charles #78, "US Mafia-led"?

Of the 12 clubs known to be a part of this obscenity (15 rumored), only 3 have American owners.

By multiple accounts, the originators are Perez at Real Madrid and Agnelli at Juve.

And JP Morgan, the US bank providing the financial backing, is already deep in business with both. They're financing much of the rebuild of Real's stadium, and Juve's new finance chief joined the club directly from JP Morgan, where he was a leveraged finance analyst specializing in sport financing transactions.

The Yanks are participating, but there's no indication they're driving it.

You'd think any genuine football fan would be against this closed-shop, owner-driven, greedy nonsense, wouldn't you? Well, if you can bear to, take a look at the relevant thread on RAWK. Seems a lot of our red brethren are all for it.

11 clubs from 3 countries is not how they saw this one panning out and will probably be the reason it will fall apart.

Gavin.

My theory is it will even the playing field. Do you really think football will stop being a popular game in this country if the 6 or however many leave? I think it will be the total opposite. We have an extended SPL now, clubs who spend massive and break FFP rules under some spurious monitory rules.

Trust me, this has been coming for a while and is doomed to failure IMO but, when it does fail, the big money men will drop their toys and run off into the far distance never to be seen again.

Bring it on, I say.

I can just see it now, big 6 (sic) banned from European competition so 13th place in the league gets European football. Everton find a way to finish 14th.

I think Agnelli and his band of 40 thieves may be taken aback somewhat by the quick reaction of Uefa, Boris, the Premier League etc.. The threat of sanctions, expulsions etc... would bring their rotten, corrupt clubs to their knees. It will only take one of them, eg Man City or Barca, to back down and the rest will quickly follow suit.

If the yanks (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal) win this battle, then don't be surprised if the two northern “franchises” are moved, eventually, to the USA or China. Can you imagine the New York Red Devils vs The Miami City Reds?

I'm with Charles Brewer 72, bring back Radio Caroline and Radio sodding Luxembourg!!! United we stand, divided we fall.

Be interesting to see the statement from the greedy bastards at 9:30. Wouldn't surprise me if it was being watered down as we speak. Essentially, if it goes ahead, Man Utd, Liverpool and the rest them cease to exist in their historical form.

Dave, I agree with you to a point. I just differ about the said clubs being allowed to field any side in the Premier League. I think they should be completely exiled and not allowed to play any other club competitively.

A closed league of 20 with no decent cup competition would soon become dull. In this instance, I think Everton would actually prosper as the the biggest club left in the Premier League and would be playing the likes of PSG and Dortmund every season in the new Champions League.

If Liverpool and the others were allowed to field teams in the Premier League, it would be enabling the thing to succeed IMO.

Let's see what the Red Echo translates this in tomorrow's version, pending further inputs from football's international hierarchies and the respective governments of these traitor clubs.

UTFT!

I seldom agree with Gary Neville but I do on this. Clubs found to be involved in this money-grubbing enterprise should be deducted points for bringing the game into disrepute. I'd actually go further and relegate them.

If Everton is involved in this, I'd include them, too.

If it was to happen, then I think Celtic and Rangers would apply to join the English League pyramid.

Those righteous bellends over the park are full of 'whataboutery' on RAWK. 'We need more information before we can properly comment', 'Yes, I'm concerned, but let's not pretend that football doesn't already have big problems'.

Desperately trying to maintain an angle of 'We're still standing up for what's right' whilst they sell the national game down the river

I hope everyone would feel as strongly against the proposals if Everton were involved. And don't let us kid ourselves that, if we were one of the present Top 6, the club would not sign up for it.

At the moment, it's probably only a bargaining ploy but let's hope the Premier League show some balls and, for example, dock them all points.

Gavin I think you misread or I didn't put my point across properly. What I wrote was:

"What's the bet they want to play 2nd teams in the Premier League?"

That is in no way condoning it and, if that did happen, it would be the final nail in the FA's coffin.

Bill, 97. the irony of your last sentence is well,.......ironic.

What's the problem?. Let them go. Who cares?

Dave # 100. The premier league will refuse any club to play in a European super league, and therefore the only way any such club can play in the ESL is to totally breakaway from the premier league, lock stock and barrel. That means that not one of their age brackets, U23's, U18's or whatever can play in the premier league. They sever all ties with the premier league.

Jeff makes a point, Bill. What happens to the Scottish league if the Glasgow clubs bail?

We may condem theses club's. But If Everton was invited we would go.

It is worrying when you find yourself agreeing with Gary Neville however on this occasion his impassioned words capture the situation perfectly. All the clubs involved in discussions should be sanctioned with both financial and points penalties regardless of whether this goes ahead. A review of football governance is long overdue and the German model of ownership has negated Bayern and Dortmund taking part in this farce.

To be fair I would imagine that fans of most of these breakaway clubs would be appalled at their clubs actions and greed. God knows what the man who transformed the fortunes of an ordinary second division club Bill Shankly would have said about it.

Fully agree with the comments about this being posturing on a grand scale.

These clubs want more TV money, they want a bigger share of the pot.

This inequitable sharing of TV money is what supporters need to look out for more than anything . This is the game changer and this is what will end any meaningful competition on a permanent basis.

This permanent boost in financial strength will severely limit competition to them and hence virtually guarantee future revenues.

Once that extra TV money is secured they will work tirelessly on reducing the Premier League to 18 clubs, in tandem with expanding the number European matches.

This will be having their cake and eating it, which is surely and logically the ultimate goal.

Not so sure Paul 105, there's a good article on the Guardian by Jonathan Liew, lots and lots of fans of these clubs are coming out and condemning the idea, and threatening to walk away, easily said I know, but the disgust in their clubs is there to see.

I would actually call their bluff. Tell them "Fine; we expect your resignation immediately."

The morality and architecture and spirit of the game is being attempted to be reborn by some scheisters in business in collusion with some traitor clubs.

It can't be allowed to happen. Clearly double standards in the game that some clubs believe they are so far above the laws, ethics and morals of the game.

This is treason and the clubs concerned must face the penalties.

As I said on an earlier comment and have said over previous years, this does open for debate the Old Firm, but I don't think with all due respect that the transport logistics would fit and it would detriment the rest of Scottish football.

Imagine the ex RS circus of gobshites on the media panels would be fighting each other to get a slot, fekkn RS gobshites, and in hind site sacking Big Nose last year, may have been a signal of what was coming,

The game is finished for me if this goes unpunished and I'm born, live and die a Blue, and live in the values that Everton, shows and bestows to its global community. But if Everton did ever follow suit, then, I'd self excommunicate.

Football is the game for the people and thus should remain so, at all levels, and across all Nations, regardless of finance and politics.

Looks like RS owner John Henry will be vice-chairman of the new ESL

Comments from Old Whisky Nose earlier:

Everton are spending £500 million to build a new stadium with the ambition to play in Champions League. Fans all over love the competition as it is," he said.

“In my time at United, we played in four Champions League finals and they were always the most special of nights.

Let's hope we can still build that stadium. Anyone think the money will go South from the Prem if this happens ?

The league won't work. Image if the title is won with 5 games to go. Who will travel to other countries to watch meaningless games?. Stadiums will be half empty.

Looks like RS owner John Henry will be vice-chairman of the new ESL"

JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5 billion into this venture.,"Looks like RS owner John Henry will be vice-chairman of the new ESL"

JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5,,,1,22:13:01,,208.127.197.222,ok,2081,04/18/2021 22:13:01,lynchy,reader,,,no 1147791,40684,toffeeweb,18/04/2021,Dave Lynch,Lynchy50@me.com,"Looks like RS owner John Henry will be vice-chairman of the new ESL"

JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5,"Looks like RS owner John Henry will be vice-chairman of the new ESL"

JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5,,,1,22:13:01,,208.127.197.222,ok,2081,04/18/2021 22:13:01,lynchy,reader,,,no 1147792,40684,toffeeweb,18/04/2021,Ernie Baywood,balle@ap.aurecongroup.com,It's simple isn't it?

If an LoI is signed then punish them immediately.

Football would survive without these clubs.

I feel for their fans. I haven't seen anyone defend this.,It's simple isn't it?

If an LoI is signed then punish them immediately.

Football would survive without these clubs.

I feel for their fans. I haven't seen anyone defend this.,,,1,22:15:16,,120.159.94.138,ok,2295,04/18/2021 22:15:16,tedbull,reader,,,no 1147793,40684,toffeeweb,18/04/2021,Paul Birmingham,Paul.birmingham@bt.com,"FFS football isn't snooker, and these sheisters of the worst degree, are showing the game, it's history and the fans no respect.

They are doing the massive shat on their own fans and the game as a whole.

Life time bans for the clubs and contracted players let them play in the Hades League for their duration.

Fekk, them all.

Dave, Fenway Sports Group own Liverpool don't they?

Sorry fro thr repeat, don't know what happened there.

It will be interesting to hear what the remaining PL clubs think about it.

Pobably right Andrew.
Thats how much notice I take of em.

This will happen in some shape or form. Just as the inappropriately named "Champions" League did.

All designed to ensure inclusion into the club regardless of how you perform. It defies the spirit of competition and being rewarded for existing rather than being successful.

There will be a fudge, words of diplomacy and EU style dressing it up as something else, but this will happen.

Jeff; "If it was to happen, then I think Celtic and Rangers would apply to join the English League pyramid".

That comment wasn't intended to be ironic but I agree it is in the sense, as Mike implies, it would seriously impact the viability of the Scottish Leagues.

To be fair, a communique was released last week by fans of many of these clubs objecting to this obscene, money grabbing scheme. Your average fan wants strong, domestic leagues not some artificial fake super league.

Why are they continually pushing back the official announcement?

Fucking brill. Spurs and Arsenal would be the whipping boys, all United and shite fans who cross over the channel will get battered and Real and Barca will go about buying any player that can do more than 10 keepy uppies.

Love the idea of inviting Celtic and Rangers into the new EPL, may as well get Cardiff in to create a UK-EPL (obviously without the E).

Added bonus, could be the end of having to listen to Carragher as a match day commentator.

Colin "Why are they continually pushing back the official announcement?"

Flying a kite, perhaps. See initial reaction. If favourable, continue. If unfavourable, plausible deniability.??

Colin, perhaps there is nothing to announce and it is all posturing to get a better deal from the PL and/or UEFA.

Brent, agreed that would make sense

In fairness Bill @123, I've never understood why Celtic and Rangers didn't push harder to join the English league.

Major professional Welsh teams (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport) have played in the English leagues for decades.

Maybe they like being big fishes in a small pond? There's the irony of this project.

It was supposed to be announced at 8.30 gmt, then 9.30, now 10.30 so wtf is happening? Are they having second thoughts?

Also plausible, Neil, is your point about getting a better deal from PL etc.

Is this a case of who blinks first in the negotiations for a better deal? PL or the "super" clubs?

It must be something along those lines Brent. Otherwise why the delay?

Colin, I'm thinking they were expecting some backlash, but absolute universal condemnation ranging from the average fan to Prime Ministers have caught them off guard a little.

The revamp of the CL to a one league of 36 will no doubt now include a golden ticket option for certain so called ‘Legacy Clubs'. What that means for the integrity of the premier league who knows - for example will the RS bother turning up against a team fighting relegation if they have a CL game that week and know in advance their inclusion in the CL the following season is guaranteed anyway?

I remember something last year that included some sort of second tier involving us, West Ham and bizarrely Southampton - has that been taken off the table?

Forgive me if I am repeating anyone else's previous opinions- I'm knackered and haven't got the time to read everything. I think this is a bargaining ploy by these clubs to dictate to Eufa more of the special treatment already suggested, like allowing previous records to be considered on awarding of placings for qualification.
Of course we will be forced to allow concessions to keep the gravy train running.
It really is no different from us being compliant in the formation of the PL back in the day.
I hate so much about the game today. I dearly would like all of the 11 clubs involved to go and do it. I wouldn't miss any of them.

He level of intrigue is comparable to ‘Line of Duty'. Mother of God etc.

Not sure where to post this, but this place seems apt.

My brother, who grew up with the Moyes years, which often leads us into healthy debate, sent me an "on this day" twitter post today.

15,000 travelling Evertonians descended on Villa Park to see Kevin Sheedy secure a 1 - 0 win on 18th April 1987. I was a 16 year old stood in the away end (if there was one) that day. That, for me, was the day I knew we were winning the league. Great times.

Can't be posturing on the English clubs part as Barca, Madrid, Juve are involved as well.

Mike -I'm still shaking from that episode!

Colin #130. I think they're bottling it and rewriting the statement like Neville claimed in his rant.

The whole thing is disgraceful. Yanks thinking they can supersede the existing European body. If the said clubs do break away this 'Super League' will only be fit for the prawn sandwich brigade and armchair plastics. The days of football being for the working man will be truly over. How many supporters from these 6 clubs are going to travel abroad nearly every other week?! It'll be Americanised and suit armchair fans

Shhhh with the Line of Duty lads I'm in work till midnight and will watch when I get home.

Dave "Can't be posturing on the English clubs part as Barca, Madrid, Juve are involved as well."

Dave, it's just possible (pure guess on my part) that the English clubs are using the other European clubs and the threat of a super league in order to get a better deal from the Premier league?

This could backfire on them.

I note Bayern are notable absentees. In accordance with German football rules, they are 51% owned by non external investors. So if the supporters don't sanction it, they can't enter.

Colin, the delay means that they can't agree themselves about what to say. Some of those six clubs are hell bent on it others are wavering with their boardrooms in disagreement.

Right-ho Dave!

Danny, at 122, as a very well respected regular contributor to TW, what's your basis for your certainty, and therefore what's your time line for this to happen, and validation for your view it will happen?

I'm as angered as the rest of us, but I don't see this being an easy win, for the traitor clubs.

I learn every day of this website about all matters, Everton and life, it's our global Parish of Evertonians, and long may it last, through good and bad and very dark days.

“Whats Our Name?”

It seems the 12 clubs are comprised of 6 from England & 6 others. If the FA/ Premier League had any balls they'd hit them with a fine and points deduction. Sadly they haven't... thus probably won't. Ted Hastings would sort them out.

Maybe the Germans and PSG are waiting for the result of this announcement before they break cover.

Their boards will surely push the fans on a vote for yes, citing financial gain etc.

I wouldn't call it certainty Paul, just a very suspicious hunch.

I suspect this is a game of poker and some sort of compromised fudge will be agreed.

Too coincidental that this has been "leaked" ahead of the announcement of the revised format of the European competition.

The positive here is that there is universal condemnation of it. Let's see (and hope) where that goes and if they listen to it.

This looks like a dummy run, by the traitor clubs, but let's see what comes out.

But it's time fo4 the respective football authorities to stand firm, and boycott and ban these clubs, for life.

They have no motive other than greed and more greed.

The end of the game in the UK, and Europe, for football supporters beckons, if no action is taken.

The talk is about this being about more money. Perhaps it's not about more money than the clubs currently generate in Europe but guaranteeing the same level of income from that stream, year in year out.

Sadly, we have allowed football to get here.

I said this with a heavy heart previously and it dismays me. But the phrase football is nothing without the fans has become hollow.

The last 12 months has demonstrated that the higher echelons of the game don't actually need fans in the stadium. They just need to be able to televise and stream their product to make their money.

That breaks my heart to say it, but it is proving true. I only hope that it is not sustainable, because I do believe that without the fans it simply isn't. Nice to see people back at Wembley today.

"This looks like a dummy run, by the traitor clubs, but let's see what comes out."

You could be right Paul but I suspect more too it than that TBH.

FIFA, UEFA and the FA will then know it's just posturing and will not take them seriously next time they threaten to leave.
Either that, or they are bartering about players representing their countries or the like.

No worries Danny.

I learn on this website more than one ever gets from the media and the Red Echo, we all care more than we should do, as we are at the end of the day Evertonians, and die hard supporters of Everton and football and the sporting principals and virtues it brings.

This is a farce of an idea and let's hope the clubs concerned get relegated and punished for breach of compliance and ethics..

But action must be taken. The first time and credit due to Gary Neville for speaking from his heart and slamming his own club, and this idea.

The RS, and it's my gut feeling are a key stake holder in this scheme. Sherlock is on the case and Watson is checking but it's un canny.

They think as a club for years they are above the rest.

Truely a club run, by Old Nick?

ESL statement: "Twelve of Europe's leading football clubs have today come together to announce they have agreed to establish a new mid-week competition, the Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

"AC Milan, Arsenal, Atlético Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Real Madrid +Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as founding clubs. Anticipated further 3 clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, intended to commence asap."

They've actually done it!! Go fuck off then. Ban the bastards!!!

The cheeky sods have actually gone and done it. Kick them out of domestic leagues and ban their players from international football. They'll soon give in.

Absolutely Paul. I don't visit many other places to read or discuss Everton and football than here! Greg O'Keefe's the Athletic is a good read though - apologies if that is free advertising!!

And its not just about Everton, its about football in general. As Howard Kendall once said, Evertonians are the most knowledgable football supporters around.

Kristian if true, then I hope that these clubs are ostracised and stripped in real time of their memberships of their respective football associations and leagues including all u18, 18,21,23 leagues, Cups and equivalents.

Dirty rats, let's be clear that's the start, may they rest in football Hell.

Cant believe theyve actually gone through with it. Dark day for football regardless of the outcome. Honestly hope theyre all severely punished.

Side not but my respect for Gary Neville went through the roof after hearing him today.

Danny,@159, ditto!

It makes sense now.
Midweek competition... gauge the TV audience and the feeling for whether it is a goer or not.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained and remain in domestic league.

The premier league should boot these clubs out right now, along with Chelsea being expelled from the FA Cup.

With a the wide spread condemnation, even from the fans of the clubs that have signed up, why would they continue? It is clear that fans are against this, so if this does go ahead, fans wont be paying any attention, therefore, the money wont be there right? No fans, no money? Even broadcasting rights come down to fans, if noone watches, noone will broadcast.

Galzer's statement is arrogance of the highest order.

Some don't get it. These clubs cannot participate in the premier league once this super league is underway. The premier league won't allow it, and so they have to breakaway from the premier league. They will have to sever all ties to the premier league. These six clubs are no longer part of English football.

European super league. Really!!! No German, French or Dutch teams and some fucking how Spurs are included.

Someone has got to have some power and fuck these teams right out of the EPL. Now.

So, they are looking for this (midweek league) to be alongside their involvement in their national leagues.

So, only 12 clubs are the founding members and governing members, and presumably only they have the decision-making power.

3 others to join, as yet unannounced and presumably with no vote in decisions.

Plus 5 to qualify annually.

I wish them well... for we shall never see the likes of them again. Thank god. All that remains is the lifetime ban. One hopes it means that they cannot have their cake and eat it. No midweek games in between EPL, no transfers in or out. Banned players not in the world cup. Devaluing a global brand. There is no way back for them. Ever.

I would uncomfortably ask, who are the 3 other clubs involved, I hope to god its not Everton. But my gut tells me otherwise. But my view is the same.

There have to be repercussions. Who the **** do they think they are? The arrogance of money..

Immediate ban from EPL. No players allowed to transfer in or out to these clubs. No national competitions. No Way Back.

Hope our club never have anything to to with the vermin involved in this monument to greed. Go and taking the screaming cheats with you.

If the FA allow them to participate in the domestic competitions then fucking shame on them.

The ball is now in the Premier League's court. Show no mercy. This calls for a "black cap" announcement.

Does this mean we won the last derby ever played? Hope these gobshites get demoted to the championship and go into administration!!

Fekk them All, and May they receive no mercy, as they deserve no mercy, and this is ridiculous to pass such a rule. Damm them to hell in eternity, and the RS, didn't exist in the beginning anyway. Fekk them and the rest.

Barca, Real, and likely all these clubs with massive FFP, and legacy long term debts.

Time for governments to ban these clubs and this organisation.

Let BMD commence and boycott the RS and these clubs at every level.

Fekkn shit house clubs, forgetting their beginnings, and fair play to the respective German, Dutch and a French Leagues for being loyal to the values of the game. The battle begins, but let's see which countries have sired this concept to market.

It remains to be seen whose running this circus but is smacks, in my view on TV moguls and Betting Companies.

And of course the dirty rat clubs.

Surely a gang of x12 clubs from Europe some of which have very poor finances, crowd profiles, and ground facilities for supporters, can't hold FIFA, UEFA, @ the EPL, to ordain and accept this sketch?

Surely tonight the lawyers are in over drive of the impacted football bodies?

No Ajax who've won more European cups than Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man City combined? 🙄🙄🙄

I just hope that the relevant associations, leagues and clubs have the bottle to say what is needed and to stick to it.
Any player who plays in this competition is banned for life from playing in any official tournament, or for his country.
We will soon see how much support the offending clubs are actually giving the money men.
This is all about making an American style franchise system across Europe. It has to be opposed. It has to be stopped.

First thought: greedy pricks.
Second thought: where does this leave our financing for BMD? Massively weaker position if we're no longer going to be a member of a top tier league. Did Colin Chong et al have a whiff of this? Have they already locked something in? Seems like it was a pretty well kept secret.
Fuck off football.

No negotiation, immediate expulsion. This could be wonderful.

Any prize money for these clubs should be withheld by the premier league. As of now, no further games for these clubs should be shown on TV. Let them rot in fucking hell. In two or three years time they will come crawling back, but they will need to be voted back into English football and start in the National league.

I would yearn for this to happen let's get back to proper football leagues like it used to be before sky, and let them drown in their own shite hopefully.

The bankers have won. Money talks, especially to the likes of Levy - Spurs haven't won a title in 60 years but would happily sell out their entire fan base for a few more quid to look special. The yank run RS aren't much better - a similarly desperate lot they are. The whole thing is utterly disgraceful but let's actually see if “the authorities” stand by their threats or fall in line which I expect they will under some form of financial coercion. If they don't, take away every title they have won and scrub them from history.

The end of football.

Fuck them all the greedy self serving bastards.

The rational part of me says that a combination of forces (national football bodies, clubs, players current and past, governments who have already criticised this, fans even of the super clubs) will see this off.

The non-rational part of me says "just fuck off".

Martin Reppion.

"It has to be opposed. It has to be stopped."

No it don't mate. Late the fuckers go and watch the likes of Spurs, Arsenal sink like ships. City will be only ones who have any chance the rest will just make up the league.

The premier league has to think and then put into action a plan that inlcudes other UK teams and THEN.. move forward...

The CL will still exist... German, French, Dutch teams still want to play this competition

So, if EUFA are against this, then how do clubs in this super league gain entry to European competitions?

I agree with Paul #48 the 12 teams are looking to still participate in their individal national leagues but actually create a rival competition to the Champions league and not actually break away. They will fulfil their national obligations.

They want to continue as normal but are just sticking two fingers up to UEFA so they can get better worldwide revenue and TV money.

Paul #51. They can still attend any european games as obligated and just forfeit them at the last minute. The legal eagles at all these clubs have had years to review and I'm sure they have found loopholes to allow them to create a new European competition.

How will all the players feel, knowing they can't represent their country at world cups etc? Will any player want to sign for any of these clubs knowing they relinquish all international duties? Course they will, after all money talks!

The timing is the key here. The champions league is about to be reformed so those clubs come up with this threat to leave to get UEFA to just about agree to anything to stop this happening. Let's not kid ourselves, why was the premier league formed? Greed. We were in the forfront of that at the time as well. Granted, this is a whole new level of greed though. What these clubs should be told this morning is, if you don't withdraw from this idea within 24hrs then you will be expelled from the league and will never return. They want to play on Wednesdays and continue in the league on weekends. Cheeky bastards. I can't think of anything less exciting, even if we were part of it. No relegation, just the same teams year in year out. It's glorified friendlies aimed at the overseas market,China,India etc. No competition just greed.

Danny @154, your right spot on and football without fans is not football.

Likewise football virtual if this concept goes unchallenged, won't last and the game will pass and more fans will turn away over time.

But opportunity strikes and there's potential for counter schemes to be set up.

But the desire shown by the traitor clubs, for means kick them out now, as is immediate relegation for breach of contract.

Fitting justice it would be for 1985.. and let them play circus football.

I'd like to do a reccy on the related traitor clubs to check their respective club business development and growth plans, for the next five years.

There's more to this heist than meets the eye, especially with their respective community, and ground and supporter club plans.

But hopefully there will be a massive revoke by the UK and EU government this week followed by giga pinfold fines and. And of 5 years for all these traitor clubs.

We live in hope.

This has got an American mindset behind it, and wants to turn football into a replica of the NFL.

Will European fans go for it? time will tell but I doubt it. Let's take a normal season (obviously not this one) and round about this time; 20 teams, 2/3 in with a shout for the league a further 6/7 in with a chance of Europe, and at the other end 6 fighting to stay in the league.

This makes the league competitive almost up to the death. Now let's have a look at the super league; depending on format probably no relegation obviously no Europe, so you have 2/3 teams in with a shout of winning and a whole load of dead rubbers.

So would I pay to watch Anderlect play Ajax in a meaningless friendly? To be honest I wouldn't even pay to watch PSG vs Barca in the Championship decider.

If this is a thing, then UEFA should grow a pair wave them bye bye and carry on without them

Jim #9. I'm not up with the play on this but it seems everybody could end up worse off financially, if however the six Premier League teams go and are in fact then banned from playing in our league, surely we would, by default pretty much be close to the top of what will still be the most respected league in the world.

Football, created by the poor stolen by the rich.

Liverpool FC
Manchester United FC
Manchester city FC
Chelsea FC
Arsenal FC
Tottenham Hotspur FC (Fuck knows why?)

These six clubs are no longer part of English football. They can no longer participate in the premier league, league cup or FA Cup!!

Shameful behaviour the football authorities should take action and expel those clubs from their national leagues with immediate effect and expunge their records.

Let them play on Mars, seriously fuck these lice from the game for good, their values and code of practice are clear.

They are trying to take the running of the game over, by what criteria?

But also is their collusion and double agents within FIFA, UEFA, and perhaps the EPL?

It would be not a surprise..

Common factors and it's been referenced on this thread but facts are needed.

The idea of 15 "founder members" being guaranteed a place in the league in perpetuity, while 5 others are allowed to qualify each season, is so arse-clenchingly dreadful that I fail to see how any real football fan can support it.

To be fair, RAWK has now gone into full melt-down, with the vast majority of RS completely against the idea. mourning the death of their club, football, and life as we know it etc.

Fuck knows what happens with Bramley Moore if this actually goes ahead and either The Six are flung out of the PL, or take very little interest in it because it doesn't lead to European qualification any more.

I'd love to know what Spurs and Arsenal fans are thinking, because right now they are the weakest link and are likely to be propping up the Super Table year after year. Spurs haven't won anything since Moses was a boy, so they'd be better off sticking with the PL and battling it out with us for the title,

Agnelli has resigned from his UEFA positions. He's been planning this stab in the back for ages.

All six “English” clubs have now left the ECA.

They're not going to get kicked out of the league yet, but a 20 point penalty for each club would make it interesting. Arsenal would be in a relegation fight with Spurs and Liverpool, and City would be 2 points behind Leicester. We'd move up to 4th, 3 points ahead of Utd!!!!

Tottenham. 2 times English champions, last time being 1961 are considered European elite and in the club? The irony.

The English teams involved represent the owners that that want to sports wash their money or probably loan money on an asset they have acquired. Maybe the moment should be used by the other members of the Premiership and Football league to separate themselves from those who want to be a sports business from the heritage of the game of English football and exclude them from their respective competitions.
They seem to think their individual brand is greater than the game so let them go. Maybe they can get the Harlem Globe Trotters to form a Soccer Team and include a Celebrity Team and Reality TV team as that seems to be the direction of travel.

Sounds like it's designed to force through this new Champions League format, which is like a European league anyway, by getting clubs to vote for it rather than risk this nonsense happening.

UEFA due to announce it tomorrow.

Leaving the ECA leaves them as pariahs. Rumours are Munich and Porto want in as well. No Benfica or Ajax but Spurs make the grade😄😄

Get out the popcorn. This is going to be an interesting watch.

We are going to learn a lot about the resolve and integrity of the national and international governing bodies and many an individual involved in the game.

Owners. Managers. Players. Administrators. Politicians. Broadcastors. Sponsors.

Oh! And us, the fans.

I have no idea how this will play out, but I'll be an avid follower of developments.

Just saw the hierarchal structure of the board of governance. Real Madrid's President overseeing an executive board of American Billionaires; Glazer (United), Henry (Liverpool) and Kroenke (Arsenal).

It more or less has already happened by stealth anyhow. The euro cups have the same teams competing for it every year.

FIFA and uefa have had it cushy for years. Milking the game rather than govern it accordingly. They have let the big guns get away with loads of things and not blinked an eye.

They are now shit scared that the big guns want to govern themselves and take their money with them.

They all just want a bigger piece of the pie. A world league will follow.
Franchised clubs could move to different countries, imagine Liverpool moving to Norway or Man U Thailand.
Players will not be able to play for their countries as the super club will call the shots.

Other sports have had breakaway leagues with different governing bodies.

Whatever happens the new premier league, EFL and fa have to look after the game at all domestic levels.

"Manchester United co-chairman Joel Glazer will be a vice-chairman of the Super League.

He said: "By bringing together the world's greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid."

Seriously, just fuck off. Not even the RS believe that bollocks, and they're the most deluded fuckers on the planet.

I have no problem with this happening as long as the FA and UEFA don't buckle and let these so called big 6 co-exist and continue to play in the Premier League or any UEFA based competition. Football's corrupt! Who knows whether these clubs might try and influence people within the governing bodies to pass this?!

Champions and Europa league semi finals temporarily suspended.

Mega-players and their agents will have a big say in this greedy, shabby enterprise. The likes of Messi, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic may well, on account of their age, be able to screw out a last gigantic contract or two for themselves as the end of their careers comes near. Playing a mere 20ish games a year may be attractive too to the easily tired little lovelies amongst the older generation but what will the likes of Mbappe, Foden and Haarland want? 20ish games a season? No international matches? No domestic football? One meaningful trophy per year at best?

I know what the astute young player SHOULD wish for but how many of such players are there, necessarily supported by long-sighted, wise, principled agents, as they'll think they need?

If the big German, French, Portuguese and Dutch clubs stand their ground and don't join, that would still make a pretty interesting Champions League with the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, PSG, Marseilles, Porto, Benfica, PSV and Ajax along with some of the remaining English clubs. Hopefully we'd see the rise of some of the older traditional clubs like Rapid Vienna for example.

There needs to be repercussions for all 6 immediately that doesn't back them into a corner where they leave (because as much as I despise them, it will devalue the league for a while), but does impact them enough so they won't threaten to leave again. I would advocate anything between a 10 and 20 point deduction for each club.

I can't believe that the clubs are being this stupid.

Which makes me wonder whether they know more than we know.

It's so obviously a bad idea. But would they put it forward if they thought there was any chance they were deducted points, booted from their domestic comp, booted from the current CL season etc?

I can't quite figure out what their play is here. The PL, UEFA, FIFA can simply stand firm. The only players in the league would be aging players - it would be like the US NSL was.

It does, though, bring Project Big Picture into context. These 6 would have been able to simply approve continued PL involvement and downvote any points deductions. The two can't be put into any other context. Big Picture indeed.

Just to add, big sports are never focused on the hardcore. Boxing fans know this. It's the casual supporter that pays the big bucks.

Let them go, the premier league, Champions league, f a cup, League cup will continue, without those six.

I just hope Everton, are not one of the other three clubs mentioned.
Take utd and our neighbours out of the equation, the likes of Chelsea, City have only recently, been one of the top dogs, so who is to say the likes of Leeds Villa, West Ham and the likes, will not do the same, then in say ten years times, those big clubs will have been replaced by new teams, especially with not being handicapped, in the transfer window, like they were when clubs in the top 4 were buying hand over fist, due to guaranteed Champions league revenue, every season.

So I think the premier league will actually thrive and see more competition.

How often has that happened Rob; players "injured" and not available to play for their country?

What you have here is more and more of football building itself from the top down rather than the bottom up.

A closed club that gets increasingly more difficult to become part of. The English disease as a very wise coach once called it to me is spreading throughout Europe. They're building the roof before the foundations. My only hope is that the realisation of that not being a good strategy will come home to roost.

You always grow grass from the seed. Grass roots and foundations are key to sustainment.

Souless owners with no compassion or feeling for their clubs or the game of football.

Jay @205 - totally agree mate but watch how the owners of the capital (bankers) spin it and pull their media bitches in too to serve it up to the sheep on the street. Been the same with Covid for the last year. Oh there won't be another lockdown, I'm a libertarian, no Covid passports, have an experimental vaccine but don't ask any questions...people are idiots and can't see past the end of their own fucking noses. Six months down the line they'll all be in agreement, palms greased, extolling the virtues to the proletariat. The whole thing is utterly despicable and we need strong leadership to quell the hysteria but I am yet to see that in many walks of life particularly in Brexit Boris Britain and his multitude of lies and duplicity.

Just watch.

I wonder what Moshiri is thinking? Let's hope the finance deal for BMD has already been signed off.

I have gone back over 100 comments (I always read from the most recent, back. who knows why, maybe an existentialist thing going on!) and will read all comments, which I usually do before commenting. But not today! Need to air my irritability at this!

Now, greed was the reason for the start of the premier league, but from a football fans point of view, the change was not drastic. Then we went from 3 major European competitions to 2 and the champion's league. which, as mentioned many times, you didn't have to be a champion to win. However, as fans - despite the greed, we could still buy into it. Then Liverpool won it, and couldn't qualify because they finished 5th rules were changed and alarm bells should have been a ringing! Then I heard talks of letting clubs in on 'historical reasons' hhhhmmmm!

Now this!

However, I think this has gone several steps too far! Fans and ex-players of the clubs involved have reacted negatively. It really has been a massive miscalculation on these teams' behalf. Wow! The arrogance. Also, now please explain this Why Spurs? I mean nationally, they've always had the media behind them, been a glamour club, Top of the Pops appearances 'Ozzy is going to Wembley' cringe cringe - Chris and Glen no words needed, but internationally . and I have lived and worked in quite a lot of foreign countries; they mean very little! So, why Spurs? How can that be justified? Rhetorical question really.

But, at least now, the greed aspect has been exposed for all to see. We shall see what the players are really made of. I could wax lyrical about how I have almost completely fallen out of love with the game I loved watching and playing, but will leave that for another day. My food deed for one and all!

It's looking as suspected as a media backed by out and easy wins all around for the few.

No respect for the effects and consideration of the the start and of Association Football, and for the lower leagues and grass routes football.

I hope all the world football authorities ban and fine these traitor clubs.

No suspension of semi finals. Stan Collymore lied to me🙄🙄

The threat of suspension of these clubs from their respective leagues and a worldwide ban for their players should surely stop this outrageous and despicable plan in its tracks.
As for the PL teams involved, I have no doubt that the American owners of Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United are the instigators and I find it inexplicable that Chelsea, City and Spurs have been stupid enough to join in, as without them it would have been a total non-starter.

Ian “inexplicable” that - Chelsea (ruthless Russian oligarch billionaire owner), Man City (ruthless autocratic billionaire owners) and Tottenham (billionaire ex-banker, Soros partner and offshore owner) - are part of this? Are you an idiot or just completely naive? Honestly I wish some people would just wake the fuck up. It's right in front of your eyes man!!!

Barry, Spurs were in a ‘big 5' group as long ago as the end of the eighties/ early nineties (when we were in it as well). Spurs and Arsenal are probably historically the two largest and most prestigious London clubs. Chelsea are only recent upstarts, as are Citeh, so they should be the ones you question unless you judge clubs purely on bank balance and Premier League era success.

The whole thing is just a selfish power grab. They do mention more money ending up being distributed through the football ‘pyramid' but the obvious proviso is that it will go to them first and then get passed on to the ‘lesser' clubs when they want to lure away the best players and thus reinforce themselves.
I just hope UEFA get serious and sanction the scumbags instead of finding some way to compromise with them.

Couldn't the government refuse permission to allow the breakaway games to occur? As they arnt governed by the FA then they wont be able to get a safety certificate.

Perez just said if there's an international ban they'll form their own World Cup. This man is insane!!

Thinking about it some more...

Just say every body comes down hard and says no and basically ostracises these clubs.

Supporters of the other clubs in the pyramid probably don't care. We like watching our team.

But those 6 drive a huge amount of viewership and therefore commercial and TV revenue. Sky aren't paying anywhere near the same money if we promote 6 Championship clubs.

So the PL will have a choice of making money or losing money. Some clubs will be faced with making a principled decision that could send them bankrupt. We know how dependant clubs are on TV money.

I'm all for the principled stand. I'd love to see football knocked down a peg or two and go back to being more of a sport than a business, but I don't have a say. How many clubs are going to actually vote this down?

Back to my earlier reluctant view Ernie. Just as when the Premier League was formed and then the Champions League, there will be a compromised fudge.

I hate myself for saying that. I wish there could be a stand against this, but there will likely be a middle ground compromise.

Unless, and I truly hope it is the moment, football for once stands up for itself.

A really depressing day for football. This so-called super league is a scandal that runs roughshod over history, tradition, fair competition, and - most importantly - the fans. And if it results in clubs being banned from domestic leagues then we'll also see further damage to the communities and cities these clubs claim to represent.

Honestly, my overriding emotion is just sadness for the long-term, local and match-going fans of the six English clubs involved. They don't want this. This is confirmation that they're seen as little more than a meal ticket by their billionaire owners. No schadenfreude here: we all know that Everton could have been mixed up in this farce if we were a bit richer.

Where does this leave Everton?

In the short-term: probably in the Champions League. With the 12 clubs leaving the ECA, they certainly won't be involved in UEFA competition next season, currently leaving Leicester, West Ham, ourselves and Leeds as de-facto qualifiers. But I can't drum up much enthusiasm given the circumstances.

Longer-term: BMD is clearly under threat if the six English clubs are banned from domestic football. Their loss will have a huge impact on television rights deals and our future revenue streams. My hunch though is that they won't be expelled. The Premier League knows how important they are financially, and will do all they can not to slay the golden goose. I'm predicting middling point deductions and possible dismissal from domestic cup competition.

This is the gamble the six clubs have made: they've listened to the threats and hit the nuclear button by announcing it anyway. Unfortunately, I reckon they'll get away with it.

And the rich get richer. As it ever was.

Remember when Manchester United opted to not compete in the FA Cup?

That will be the compromise. The 6 won't compete in the domestic cup competitions.

That will be their "punishment".

Well they certainly won't care about points deductions this season if they don't need to qualify for their Euro League. They won't care about leaving domestic cups when they have midweek Euro League games anyway.

That allows the FA and PL to make a stand... but it's a pointless one.

As Danny said above, I'd love to think this is the moment when football stands up for itself. But I fear we've gone too far down a road that won't allow those kind of principles.

A vote against this could considerably diminish Farhad's shareholder value. He's an investor. Could you even blame him?

This will be the death of footy as we know it but at the same time it might bring back that feeling I had in the 80s when I started going. Proper football.
Integrate the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish league into our leagues and fuck the 6 teams off. I for one wouldn't be arsed. I want football to give me the feeling it did 30 odd year ago and this could be the answer. Who cares if the so called top six (Spurs really) go because it will be boring as fuck in no time and if fans of the remaining 86 teams boycotted watching then the money would soon dry up.
Well done to the German teams but they are all 51% fan owned so I suppose it was never gonna happen there.
Once again you've got to hand it to the kopites, absolute shameless bellends

Mike#4

I am not familiar with the way American Sports franchises work, but was thinking, prior to seeing your post, that there is more than meets the eye in this proposal, and the ability of the said Clubs to implement such changes.

I think you are correct in the queries that you raise and the probable permutations that could arise if such moves are resisted or pecuniary action taken.

It seems a go it alone plan has been worked out , negotiated in various stages with parties or potential parties involved, agreed in some cases, and the Financial partners are in place, with ball park figures worked out.

It's going to have a impact. Financial gain for them and I don't care too much about the Clubs not involved.

Si Cooper - 223

I get what you are saying about Spurs, but achievement is not what makes them 'prestigious' it is London. Top 6 in England, certainly is not top 6 in Europe especially in a league of 12 permanent fixtures, and 3 'guests'.

I may have misread your post. due to being on my 2nd bottle of wine! So, apologies if that is the case.

Spurs are relatively successful, prestigious, and based in London.

But, more importantly, they're run by people that would happily sell off their family members if they thought there was money in it.

That's their appeal to this lot.

This has been brewing for years, partially due to the jealousy of the teams like Barca and Real at the amount of money flowing into the English game. It's not surprising that this has been announced days after the talk about Barca's 1b debt or Juve's cash flow issues. They had to make a league appealing to the English teams, so that guarantee of 300m for just being a part of it is huge carrot.

Andy Crooks

I never watch the Champion League.

Ernie #234 - totally agree with that. Most, however, choose to ignore or can't see it. Probably the most abhorrent club in the league bar the mob over the road.

I won't be even slightly upset if the so called "Super Six" leave and never come back. We still have 86 competitive teams who will continue to provide football for their doting fans.

I am a fanatical Evertonian but I watch many games weekly. It is competion that really matters not some overpaid adonis doing football tricks with the ball before he is tapped on the ankle and does multiple rotations while screaming out his agony.

The Continental teams need English football far more than we need them PROOF below

The CHAMPIONSHIP has become a far more exciting league because of the changing scenarios in the league The ups and downs of the teams ensures fair competion and uncertainty about who will go up or down. This may sound ridiculous but as a neutral I would prefer to watch Watford v Brentford in a game with everything on the line than Juventus v Athletico Madrid to see who can look best in a 0-0 draw.AND. the present Champioship attracts very good crowds.

I would have absolutely zero attraction watching teams in the proposed super league. As many others have said this is so "AMERICAN". Once they got their foot in the door they would only be happy if they could change all the rules,and make more money in a sport that they know NOTHING about. They just don't understand the culture and mind of the "normal" British fan. They do not realise that the supporters of Tranmere or Hartlepools are just as fanatical as those who follow any of those now "UNMENTIONABLE" six.

They also do not comprehend that the British Leagues will continue to flourish without them. Fortunes change in football. Those "Unmentionables all have money at the present time and in the case of Chelsea they were "jokes" before some ugly Russian came along, AND Tottenham have ONCE won the league sixty years ago.

Everton have spent more time at the top level than ANY team in the League. We have won enough to continue gloriously without the "Unmentionables".So if I can speak on behalf of the "86" remaining teams please LEAVE and don't come back. YOU ARE NOT NEEDED. Personally I hope the RS enjoy coming bottom of the new league. That could last for an eternity as you could never be relegated and once you are LAST it could be your divine destiny.

They can go and form a SUPER HYPER LEAGUE or whatever bollocks they name it. I don't give a "rat's ass" as they say in the US. I am fine with it as long as they are banned from their respected domestic competitions or being relegated to national conference league. THAT WOULD be fun!

Rob #189... I don't think any amount of money could talk that loud. Especially since most of the players affected by an international ban are plenty wealthy already.

Just run down the six pariah PL clubs and look at those players. De Bruyne is the captain of the #1 national team in the world. Will he give up a chance to raise the World Cup for Belgium to play in this mess? I don't think so.

Will Kane, Sterling or Rashford turn their backs on England for money? Principled players who live to wear their country's colors? You tell me.

Will van Dijk toss away his Netherlands captaincy for this shit after all the bank he's made? Can't imagine it.

Will Alisson and Ederson, the first two truly great keepers Brazil has ever had, abandon their legendary national side (along with Firmino) a year before the WC to stick with their clubs and their big checks? They could never go home again.

And what about guys like Salah and Mane, who are literally the only hope for their nations to qualify for Qatar? They'll be considered national traitors too.

I just don't buy it, mate. I think if FIFA imposes a WC ban, every player I've just mentioned will bail on their English clubs so fast they'll leave just a vapor trail behind.

Same in Serie A. Cristiano is one of the wealthiest athletes alive. Think he'll stay at Juve and watch Portugal on TV in the WC? Not a chance in hell. Same with Lukaku. He's gonna pass up a possible WC Golden Boot for some extra cash? No way. No way.

I have felt for quite a while, and voiced it on these pages about the immorally high amounts of money that has been a part at the 'sharp end' of the League structure it looks to get even worse with this impending collapse of the system as we know it. Clubs around the bottom that are struggling now, will probably disappear altogether.

'Money doesn't grow on trees' we were told growing up, well I was, and that stands for all sectors, whether it be funded by Governments or private companies alike. There is no bottomless pit, and the money has to come from somewhere. Think of it as a circle, there is only so much than can go round in that circle, if one part has a lot, it only stands to reason that some other part of that circle will have a deficit.

The writing has been on the wall for some time, and let's face it, we all love the game, but 18 year olds (only a few) are millionaires and spend money like film stars on lavish luxuries just because they can. While not far away, another 18 year old has no job, no money, but may be not that far behind the lucky ones in terms of footballing skill. It's just that he hasn't been in the right place, at the right time, or had the connections and recommendations that the 'nouveau riche' counterpart has.

I am all in favour for these greedy Clubs and their owners be expelled from the League if it all goes pear shaped, but deep down we know, or doubt that will happen. It will all get brushed under the carpet, and they'll be welcomed back.

Someone said that the clubs could have their cake and eat it by staying the premier league but not taking part in domestic competitions like the FA Cup. I don't see that happening. The top 6 is already a closed shop except for the odd exception. They'll just be too much resentment for that format to work. These clubs would be making around £350m a season just for being members of the proposed super league.

There'd have to be some kind of revision of FFP and the said clubs would have to be capped on what they spent domestically, which means they'd have to put out a 2nd team from the one in the Super league to keep the premier league fair and competitive.

I think the FA will stick to the original statement and clubs will have to break away for this to happen. The other factor will be whether other clubs hold firm. PSG, Bayern and Dortmund have said no, at this stage, but will other clubs take the carrot and take the invite as one of the 5 clubs?! The clubs signed up to this are counting on that otherwise it will definitely fail if it will be the same teams every season.

Also, how could these invited clubs have any success when there would be such a a financial gulf between the super league and the domestic leagues?! And even if you did, it's a bit sickening if you finish above Spurs, but you get relegated.

This either has to be stopped or the clubs go it alone, play an MLS style league just play with themselves every week, which I think the owners would be fine about! The league would eventually fail cos that model goes against the ethos of the game

Mike 240

I think many would!! Because the money on offer will be so crazy.

Anyway, screw them. Let them go and have their little hobby league!

John Boon and Ian Pilkington, kindly shove the Yank-bashing.

John, this ain't "SO AMERICAN" just because the owners of 3 of the clubs involved are Yanks -- who, of course, "know NOTHING about" the sport. Really, John?

Ian, by every press account and public statement over the past year and a half, the "instigators" are NOT John Henry and the Kroenkes and the Glazers, but the ayatollahs of Juventus and Real Madrid. They've been quite open about it. Try doing a little reading. Just a little. Facts are fun.

And Nick Page, since you like to throw the f-bombs around, I'll throw one your way. Kindly shove your fucking right-wing conspiracy theories. George Soros does not own any part of Spurs. Nor is he partnered with anybody who does. He teamed with Lewis on a finance play 20 years ago. That's it.

Mike, the three American owners have long wanted this and they'll all be the 3 vice chairman. The American owners can't grasp the concept of promotion and relegation. They want a closed shop! This is a US sports model. The Madrid's and Juve's have finally come round to this MLS style franchise because of the financial instability from Covid.

Nick Page, Soros isn't involved at Spurs and Chelsea, and especially City have been the most reticent about committing. The city project isn't about making money. It's about prestige and it wouldn't surprise me if they now pull out of this proposed league

So if these 6 clubs break away from the Premier League, Everton could potentially be playing in a new Champions League next season?!

Personally, I would hope that a newly devised Champions League would go back to the original European Cup model when football was a much more level playing field when a provincial club like Nottm Forest could win it. It was the start of the Champions League that started this 'closed shop' mentality of protecting financial incomes of the so-called big boys.

If Everton were a part of this, I would no longer support them. Very glad the fan groups of most of these teams have come out opposed to this anti competition garbage league.

Mike (244). First of all I read a large percentage of your posts and I realise that you are a knowledgeable supporter who is also an American. I am an ex scouser who has resided in Canada since 1963, when I emigrated as a 24-year-old. I also live only 20 minutes from the US border. I have many American friends and I have spent many holidays in the USA. I assure you I don't have even the slightest animosity to your fellow countrymen. I am also pleased that so many Americans have become supporters of British "soccer".

However, regarding my post (238), I do not apologise in the slightest way. I am not insulting Americans as individuals. I like the rise of the MLS, and we have a Team in Toronto, where I once resided. However, I am very concerned that so many teams in the UK have now been financed by multi Billionaires, including those from the USA.

I indicated that I appreciate the MLS but I do not want the MLS type of football strategy and management to ever come to Britain. I will be an Evertonian scouser for the rest of my life. I may have left Liverpool, but Liverpool never left me. I like promotion and relegation. I have followed the ups and downs of many teams for the last 70
years. I don't like the way the NFL is organised with little divisions that never change. Having said that, I do like the actual game and I am a Bills fan.

However, I am convinced that wealthy Americans are very much behind this ridiculous idea. This is not US-bashing. Just that you do not really understand the football culture that was given to me as a snotty-nosed 8-year-old. I actually knew the league when New Brighton had a team. I have two Canadian sons, John Everton and Andrew Goodison. My wife would not let me call our daughter Gwladys. We have all been back to Goodison many times. Everton and English Football are essential parts of my whole being.

As much as I appreciate your support for Everton, I do not want anybody from the USA to try to change our whole system of football. Sorry, but it is no different than some wealthy Brit trying to infiltrate and change the US sports system, whether it be Baseball, the NFL, or any other sport. What I said in #238 is exactly how I feel. I may not be right but it is my opinion.

Gavin 246, I'd be happy for us to miss out if it went back to Champions only.

Of course, the irony here is that the Champions League was supposed to ward off the threat of a Super League. As were all the subsequent changes... and the ones due to be announced!

You know what would happen if we went back to Champions only?

It would be great... and then greed would leap up again and we'd follow this same path. Football is bound to eat itself.

Fairly sure those responsible for this 'plan' will have absolutely understood there will be initial outrage.

They will not right now be dramatically panicking and shrieking "OMG! We've made a terrible mistake".

The release of the idea (and some of the details) is testing the water - specifically gauging how supporters, the Premier League, Fifa, Uefa etc will react.

Not how they/we will initially react, but how they/we will actually and ultimately react (nb: they already know and understand that initial reaction will be outrage and anger).

This will (ultimately) be about resolve – theirs and ours.

Will we huff and puff and then... do nothing?

(By 'we', I mean everyone who could be negatively affected in some way by this move.)

Or will we be able to achieve what we rarely achieve in football, uniting for the greater good (nb: there was opposition to the Premier League; cash won).

Right now, the teams involved in the breakaway are bluffing or rather calling our bluff.

They're saying – "If we go ahead with this, you won't cut us out of your domestic leagues or cut us out of your World Cup or your European Championships or domestic cup competitions because you'll cut your own throats."

Imagine there was unity and resolve.... Imagine.

"These breakaway sides believe this move will make them much more money. Initially it might. But in the long term it won't. Teams breaking away will not be allowed to play in their domestic leagues. Effective immediately. They will not play for their international sides. Effective immediately. Players and agents should understand that 99% of footballers will not be playing in this league and we will do whatever it takes to protect the majority. Do. Not. Fuck. With. Us."(or words to that effect).

To coin a cliché, this is high-stakes poker.

So the official statement on the Liverpool FC website quotes Perez, Agnelli and Glazer. The Co-Chairman of Manchester Utd is now speaking for the Liverpool?! That is surely the ultimate humiliation for their supporters.

In fairness, the Spirt of Shankly and fan clubts/trusts for all 6 English clubs have utterly condemned this move, as have every football institution, ex-players and the media globally. If Fifa and Uefa hold their nerves and ban players from the new competition playing for their national teams then it is guaranteed to fail. In reality, I think it is a negotiation ploy by the 12 clubs to grab more power and their bluff should be called.

Ban them from their domestic leagues as well, and tell them to rejoin in National League 2 when they try to re-enter.

Eugene, hopefully that unity and resolve will be demonstrated today.

Link

I think also as Gary Neville said very eloquently yesterday that the clubs involved need to be punished this season.

Very hypocritical to criticise the "6" about greed when all you hear on these and other boards is wallahs preaching top 4 before silverware (FA Cup and League Cup) because of the money!!

The glory of the game is lost on them.

Here and other forums seem infested with accountants and financial experts jerking off about "amortization", the game and players ability being minor irrelevances. Plenty of Evertonians on that bandwagon and as such are as complicit as John Henry, Kroenke and the Glazers.

Fans can't bellow "We need more money" without owners looking at ways of getting it.

You reap what you sow – it's all your fault.

Gavin #245, you say that with great certainty. Where's your evidence? Perez and Agnelli have been actively, publicly, enthusiastically promoting this idea since early 2019 -- long before COVID. Can you link to a single quote from any of the Americans during that period? No. The idea that the pandemic brought Real and Juve around to the Americans' idea is contravened by the facts as well as the public statements (or lack thereof) from all parties.

Furthermore, it's truly ridiculous to imply that the American owners don't understand the sport, or the concept of promotion and relegation. The Glazers have been Premier League owners for 15 years, Fenway and the Kroenkes for 10, and they've all had notable success, so they know what it's all about.

Yes, the Yank owners are supportive of this stupid thing and a big part of the problem. But blaming the whole idea on them is asinine.

I know it's already been said on here that the thin end of the wedge or start of it was letting Sky dictate our league from 1992. We know they tidied up the grounds with seats and more money but the game and attitudes changed from that moment. Neville and his kopite mate are recipients of this so it's a bit rich them saying how dare they when they are already on the gravy train.

If any good comes of this, it will really be the beginning of the end of them other shower when they want to come back and have Glasgow Rangers type embargos on them. Plus Man Utd wanting to play in a tournament on the other side of the world instead of the FA Cup. All these things set the rot sadly.

There's nothing wrong with clubs wanting more money in order to progress. That's always been the case. The problem is that every club should have the same opportunities based on free competition and success depending on merit and not a closed shop cartel.

As an Evertonian who has long wished for a better financial situation at the club but would never support this betrayal of the game I implicitly refuse to accept any responsibility for it.

No, it is NOT my fault!

Mike, I don't don't blame Americans entirely, but from just a premier league perspective you don't hear Citeh, or Chelsea lambasting their owners like you do at United with the Glazers, or Kroenke at Arsenal. The furlough club over the park's owners are now beginning to see John Henry and Fenway as asset strippers just like the Glazers and Kroenke. All three boards are clearly motivated by profit over success. This seems to epitomise how most American clubs/franchises are ran, at least from every American owner in the Prem. I'm guessing it's the business model for a lot of US sports clubs too

This super league is an American style model and I personally don't believe that there would have been this turn of events if the historic biggest 3 clubs weren't American owned, especially when they've come out in the past and said that they don't understand a league where their asset (club) could be be relegated.

Don't take it as some Anti American attack. I'm just calling it as I see it.

When the yanks bought the clubs did anyone think it was because they loved football?

A business venture with a dream of earning vast amounts of money.
Thier dream has come to fruition

If even one club is guaranteed to be part of this competition without any sporting (not financial) performance barrier, then it is an old boys' club from the outset.

Can you imagine the impact on transfers?

Can you imagine the condescension we would face from the self-proclaimed elite (assuming Moshiri doesn't get us in by the back door)?

This is not equivalent to the Sky Premier League.

Maybe it's time to support Marine.

They know what they're doing Eugene and the timing is significant. They've sent out a warning shot to UEFA. A worse case "this is what it could look like" scenario. They've thrown in the hand grenade.

Now there will be stand off's, upfront bravado, behind the scenes negotiation and an eventual fudge that meets somewhere in the middle that both sides can claim victory on.

European football's equivalent of the Brexit process.

John #244, I'm aware that you're a longtime North American (condolences on your allegiance to the Bills) and have some acquaintance with the US sports scene. But you're just flat wrong that Americans don't understand the family and even generational passions generated by local sporting loyalties. Obviously you've never met an American who was born and raised in a major college football town. Or ask some Buffalo native you know about the Bisons, the minor league baseball team that has been playing there since 1877. Connie Mack was a Bison (look him up) and people there still talk about him, just like Tranmere and Hartlepool supporters know their players from a century ago. We understand fan culture.

And when you write this: "Once they got their foot in the door they would only be happy if they could change all the rules,and make more money in a sport that they know NOTHING about"... I say that's bunkum. As I pointed out to Gavin, the current US owners have been in the Prem for more than a decade, and they know their shit. And they haven't tried to buy titles or change club nicknames/colors or sell chicken or any of the crap other foreign owners have pulled in England.

And when you point at the US owners for "changing our whole system of football" but ignore the British, Russian, Italian, Spanish, Chinese and Arab owners doing the same thing... I'm gonna call that Yank-bashing, and I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

It is the love of money that has started this and it will be which will end it.

If it fails to pull the TV audience and revenue then they will seek to go back to their home leagues. I don't see that kicking them out of their home leagues is anything more than emotive. If they wish to play midweek then you either tell them that their national fixtures, including Cup competitions, take priority over some "Super League" with the threat of penalties,or they should consider their position.

There is also the matter of the "extra" sides to make up the numbers and if other teams will join them if there is some sort of relegation.

The so called fan owned German teams will join. If 49% is owned by an individual, company or group then they only need 2 of the 51% of the fan content and they're in.
The French will do as they always do, wait until they see how the tide turns and the wind blows, similarly the Dutch although they may wait to join at a later date.
Now, imagine these clubs withdraw from their home leagues but the winners of such are invited into a knockout series with possible "relegation" candidates for a place in next years "Super League". Do you imagine Everton, as English Champions, would turn down the opportunity particularly if it is financially beneficial. We, the fans, might want them to but would the club's hierarchy, whose money is at stake, see it the same way?

It will probably all conclude with either the sanctioning of this "Super League" with a relegation system (as above para) but no guaranteed places for only certain clubs or, they will agree to giving these greedy sods a bigger slice of the TV revenue.

My own view is that, sooner or later, technology will be used for clubs to set up their own subscription TV broadcasting for the so called "bigger" clubs to take advantage of what they see as their greater following and appeal.

Gavin #258, if you say this is an "American-style model", you don't understand the American-style model. The only similarity is the absence of relegation. Never, ever in American professional sports history has somebody come along and skimmed off (or even attempted to) the top dozen teams from ANY sport to elevate them into a super-league. US professional leagues have 30 teams at least, except MLS, which has 27 and growing.

Also, I'm not aware that any US owner of a Prem team ever said they didn't understand a league that included relegation. Hard to believe that an American billionaire spending that much money for an asset would be that stupid. Care to post a link to the quote you're describing?

If this goes ahead the damage it does to the game will be enormous and any club involved will never be forgiven by other clubs in their national associations.

I see UEFA and FIFA putting a huge amount of pressure onto the national leagues and Football Associations to impose very heavy sanctions as soon as possible.

Personally, I think this is brilliant for football. Let them go.

The mystique of the champions league is hoping to play against these historic, top clubs. If guaranteed to play them twice a season that mystique will soon wear off.

All the players of these clubs will have their contracts made essentially null and void and can leave on a free as no doubt every contract has performance related bonuses in relation to the Premier league and European success. They will have to be re-signed and you can bet your bottom dollar their agents will be after as much of that 3bn 'seed' money as they can get. It will soon disappear into the pockets of players and agents and not find its way down the football pyramid as they are suggesting.

Genuinely need to say you join this, you are banned from the Premier league. Yes, TV money will get hit but so what? Just pay the players less, go back to agents only being paid by the players and you'll probably save as much money as you lost anyway.

Greed is the motive here.
Glazers, Henry etc are venture capatalists.
Long term they have no interest in where a club ends up.
So long as the money keeps rolling in.

I'm no expert Mike Gaynes, but in some way, isn't the US system actually fairer? The draft system allows the lesser performing teams from the previous season the pick of the college talent right? Hence, Patriots aside, you frequently see different Super Bowl winners. No team seems to dominate or hold a monopoly in the way they do in England and Europe?

Also, just from my own experience working with Texas based companies, the frustration with the NFL sees many supporters much more passionate about College football. I'm an adopted Longhorns fan!

Now there is a degree of irony in that. Despite the NFL brand, college football in the US regularly plays in front of 60,000+ crowds and enjoys full TV exposure.

It strikes me that a Super League is a natural progression in elite football. We had a big step-change progression in the formation of the Premier League, which was promoted by the then wealthier clubs, particularly Everton. The PL is a defacto UK Super League, in which many teams, including Everton, never win it but make up the numbers. Similar is likely to happen in a European Super League, there being an elite subset of clubs who win it most times, with other clubs making up the numbers and the occasional title.

It's ironic that Evertonians are talking about the money in the game in terms of football ‘selling its soul'. Don't forget, Everton were one of the founders of the money-go-round with our 60s success being based on the John Moores wealth. We were the ‘cheque book' team in the eyes of the football world.

The Super League is arguably a natural continuation of a money-led process involving TV viewing through advances in information technology, and glitzy stadia that reflect commercial brands.

Perhaps Everton, with BMD and Usmanov involvement, will be a part of this process. Instead of playing the likes of WBA and Crystal Palace, it would be Real Madrid and Juventus.

People are saying that the motive is greed. Well, the motive is commercial profit, which has been the case for top football clubs for a long time.

We are going to win the league next year!!

Stan, I'd rather play WBA and Crystal Palace every year instead of what is being proposed here.

Imagine an existence where only 1 team wins anything. There will be no cup competitions, no chase for European positions and from what I can make out no relegation as such, just 5 teams will need succeed in their own domestic leagues to be deemed acceptable by the so called super powers.

If Everton join that, I wouldn't be watching.

The motive is money, more money, and it will create even more debt for the badly run clubs.
Where does it end, will it spiral out of control with clubs owing billion + that some people close to the game have suggested.

Lets put this into some sort of context.

If the UK clubs are allowed to continue in national leagues the impact would be disastrous for every other club in the premier league for the following reasons:
1. They are awarded 3.5bn pounds just for being in it. This is then supplemented to the tune of 10bn in the first season. Thats each club.
The impact of this alone ensures they alone have access to the best players, they alone will dominate the national competitions.

2. Their presence under such circumstances in any national competition will DEVALUE every other club. DEVALUE the competition, DEVALUE the league.

3. The gulf between having and have not will become insurmountable for ANY other club.

4. The animosity between fans will significantly increase as a result. Arrogance breeds violence. No fan, no club is better than another.

5. They are no better than exhibition games. Only money is the common denominator. Not pride.

6. What cost a fan? every other week a game in Europe? Behind closed doors perhaps?

7. Its NOT FAIR to every fan, every supporter, its playing with a loaded deck. If they go ahead they CANNOT be allowed to play in a national competition.

8. They have brought the game into disrepute by their action. I wonder perhaps if this a ploy the day before a new format of CL is announced? To get what they want? either is distasteful.

9. Everton FC have already (previously) voted against a super league, but what choice do they have going forward?

10. Sanctions against players at these clubs AT THIS POINT are not fair. They are employed by the club, but going forward, anyone joining should do so knowing they personally face playing sanctions.

They are either prevented from going or kicked out, but either way they have done irreparable damage to themselves, the league, their players. Demonstrations are sure to follow..

if we assume that this sort of reaction has already been baked in, why do it? They must think they have a stronger hand than appears at first sight. And maybe they do. Let's say the PL follows through and expels them. What do we think the reaction of Rick Parry is going to be when these shiteheads ask to join his league, with a hundred million quid as a down payment. Suddenly, it's the fourteen PL clubs locked out of the footballing pyramid. Cos let's face it, the Football League is very nearly as competitive as the bottom 14 clubs of the PL. It could be Everton in 12 months time begging to join the Football League, and the PL a busted flush.

We should be in the ball with PR and release a statement saying...

In its current proposed format, Everton FC do not support the European Super League. We respect the integrity and competitive nature of the pyramid system and would never go against the wishes of our fan base by supporting such a counter productive initiative.

Get in there early and get overwhelming public support while twisting the knife in the 6 who have gone against their fans

Andrew@273: You can imagine anything. In reality, there is likely to be an elite subset of habitual winners, as there is in the Premier League. A 20-strong Super League would have a massive following, with massive TV monies. It's simply the future.

Stan, I think they are underestimating how many people, at least in England, still have a desire to see the grassroots game thrive even if they do follow a team who play in the CL each year.

An FA Cup giantkilling still captures the imagination no matter how hard the PL tries to negate that competition.

Andrew@279: Mmm. The times, they are a changin'.

Yeh Nevin and David Bernstein just on BBC confirming the same thing... The main movers behind it are all in the shit and this is their gambit to get themselves out of it. So its GOT to happen for them.

Fair enough let them all feck off. I give it 12 months before they come crawling back.

Mike 125, love that get Cardiff in Swansea too and Celtic and the other lot across Glasgow I suppose, the more ding-dongs the better.

This is a very serious threat to us and it seems inevitable that it will go ahead in some form. It basically closes the door to champions league entry for anyone outside of the current rich 6.

The questions are:

- will there be domestic and international viewers for this new league?

- what price will the premier league demand from the euro league clubs to play in the prem?

- could the prem survive without the rich 6? Possibly by opening the doors to the Glasgow clubs?

- would a more competitive champions league be viable without the Euro league clubs, where the likes of us and Villa play Sporting Lisbon and Ajax like in the good old days?

I doubt anyone really knows the answers but it does strike me as both a threat and an opportunity.

This will syphon a lot of the poison from the EPL but EPL revenues will drop dramatically. It'll get the game in the UK back closer to its roots with more UK players but will it affect the new ground.? Will it affect Moshiri's money coming in?

IF EFC are involved and signed a letter of intent I genuinely hope we get kicked out the league also or at the very least relegated.

This is not tribal this is wrong.

Jp Morgan putting up the readies,100-250 million just for taking part.Let's be honest,these rich owners haven't bought our clubs for the love of the club or it's fans,it's because they've seen a cash cow for milking

Stan (278), so you support this greed ridden competition?

Spurs and Arsenal? Spurs and fuckin' Arsenal?!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

Let them all go. We might finish in the top 4...

Kevin Malloy 276 spot on. The only way they can be ostracised is if The governing bodies ban their players from playing in the World Cup or Euros, then they will find it hard to attract players of the calibre they need. But they must have all bases covered.

Dave@278: There's no indication of support in what I've written. I don't know enough about it to support it or oppose it. I'm simply trying to look at the available facts, and the evolution of football in my lifetime, particularly as an Evertonian. There's a lot of drama queen type of reaction to this news, but folks need to be less dramatic.

UEFA, the EPL and the FA should say clubs can do what they like in their spare time, but domestic and European fixtures will be arranged as usual, and any club failing to fulfil a fixture, or fielding a weakened side, will face big fines and big points deductions.

However, it will never happen. The clubs will bottle it, as they did before with their “big Six”.

A European Super League (although teams from only 3 countries) featuring the current 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th placed Premier League teams? No Bayern Munich who are one of Europe's best teams. Hope it happens and they all get kicked out. It's just a continuation of the haves and have-nots. The RS and United tried to rewrite the rules last season. Let ‘em go! Only 3 of them have won more than us and none of them are founder members. Good riddance!

I find the timing of this absurd proposal mystifying. We already have European matches played on neutral grounds because travel is not permitted to certain countries due to covid restrictions and yet a new European League is being proposed which will be based solely on international travel - potentially to even further flung locations, if matches are moved to suit e.g. the Asian market, as will surely happen.

Obviously, I want this dreadful covid crisis to be over and done with as soon as possible, but can anyone guarantee it? Who knows what international travel will look like for a while - even within Europe.

And I've not even mentioned the principle of the whole idea - which stinks.

So top six next year then and qualification for what ?
Interesting times. The lawyers will probably make more than the players.
The parallel I suppose, is the Kerry Packer cricket breakaway, albeit on a smaller scale when the money in the game was far less. That didn't end well. What I find especially hard to fathom is just how these clubs believe that this may be sustainable over time. Also, that it may be well received.
Football isn't about the top teams with shit loads of money who want to make even more shit loads. It's about Tranmere, Marine, Southport, Tiverton Town, etc etc and the millions of true supporters who have learned to love football at all levels and the players at all levels aspiring to climb ever higher.
Is this new league doomed to fail? I hope so but only time will tell.

Stan (290), Stan there is no drama queen type of action at all about this proposed competition,nor are people being dramatic, they are campaigning, vocally at the moment, about the game they love, you are not for or against it but predicting the way you think it will go, doubt you will be correct going by the initial reaction.

Dave, let's wait and see eh? The initial outrage will likely dissipate, as initial outrages often do.

Mike 240. I was only offering hypothetical situations.

I suspect there will be initial outrage then some sort of compromise.

I would be amazed if any sanctions were handed out. The premier league needs those clubs especially the shite and United.

Stan 271. The difference is that this will be a closed shop that no one can aspire to get to. When the premiership was made it still gave promotion and relegation even if you where a top club. But now they the top 6 are trying to run football for their own greed. Fooking Liverpool destroying the fabric of football.

Nick@222
I am neither an idiot nor naive because I found it inexplicable that Manchester City, Chelsea and Spurs joined in.
Unlike the American owned Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United, they are making enough money for their mega rich owners from existing PL and European revenues and will benefit from the contentious UEFA “wild card” Champions League qualification plan.

Too many people, on here and elsewhere, are buying in to fear that this will be the death of football and, from the perspective of the power play that underpins this whole shitty saga, this is exactly what the Super League want.

"Who wants to watch Villa v Everton as a top of the table clash?" they say. "Without the big clubs football will lose its appeal". Utter nonsense and revisionist bollocks. Whatever the new premier league format is there will be box office clubs (or big clubs, if you prefer) because of the very nature of competition.

Just because the new, improved, PL doesn't involve the Shite or Man City or ffs Chelsea or Spurs, it doesn't mean that it will be diminished in any way, shape or form. There are plenty of 'big' clubs waiting to take the places of these mercenaries. Winning things makes a club 'big' not some preordained and immutable right.

With the need for work permits in a post brexit world, how on earth would these clubs attract the best players in the world if they become ineligible for international football? This really had not been thought through properly...

Eugene #250, totally agree. This is the moment when the PL UEFA and FIFA should wrestle control of the game back. You want a super league? Right ok as of now, all clubs are banned from any kind of domestic European and world football that we organise. No negotiation. You are either in or out, end of. This is the time to get control whether they will have the balls to take on the clubs remains to be seen. Given past experience probably not but we can hope.

Alan, because they would most likely shop for players who meet the the work permit criteria.

Although on that same theme, wasn't there talk that the new rules would mean English clubs would be required to increase the minimum number of homebased players from 8 to 12 in their 25 man PL squads?

The investors in the six named clubs have little or no interest in football.

They saw football as a business opportunity in which they could make money.

Every business always seeks to maintain its position of dominance in their particular sector. It does so by crushing any competition if it can.

This development should not therefore be a surprise. This is especially the case for clubs carrying large amounts of debt. For such clubs to lose their place in the current CL could lead to bankruptcy. Owners are therefore protecting their investment.

As a consequence of all of the above, I don't think yesterday's move is intended as a negotiating tactic.

I disagree that it's not good for football. Ban them all and the players and let's get back to building a team on good recruitment and coaching rather than money always talking. And when the European super league fizzles out then let those clubs die.

Roger #291, my thoughts exactly. Let them play in their own private league but enforce point deductions on any team not fulfilling league fixtures or fielding a weakened team. Just make sure they include a rule about having a second string squad for the PL otherwise they'll just have a PL squad and a super league squad.

I'm curious about the five qualifying teams each season. I can't see how that will work because I assume the five will have qualified for the CL in order to be considered for the SL so why would they give up a chance to win a major trophy for no chance of beating the kid who owns the ball.

Doesn't ring right.

Some really good posts on this thread and I would echo those who praise Gary Neville who spoke so passionately even though his own club is a central player.
The six clubs simply have to be kicked out if this goes ahead due to the ridiculous financial advantage the super league would give them. There cannot be any alternative because of this.
It would give a marvellous opportunity for other clubs to reestablish themselves in their place- us,Villa,Leeds etc. Allowing the Glasgow teams in would bolster the premier league but ruin the Scottish league so that's a difficult one- could they be two of the remaining clubs to be named? It has shades of the exodus of star players to the US in the seventies when Pele,Cruyff,Beckenbauer etc moved there for the money with their international days behind them. Would young players move to the super league if it meant no international opportunities? Ok, some would chase the money but like so many others I don't see the super league as being that attractive to supporters and as such it will cease to attract the cash required to make it viable.
I would like to think that Everton will come out with a statement denouncing this and categorically stating that we want no part of it.
This now gives the governing bodies the chance to clean things up, either scrap FFP or at least modify it so that it is a level playing field and take control back from these self centred clubs whose wish to guarantee themselves a permanent place in this super league is is truly reprehensible. This is not sport as it is intended and the clubs should be told in no uncertain terms that to proceed will end their association with the English game.

The organisations that will decide if this happens are not the fans, clubs, UEFA, FIFA or EPL. Those who make CL & EPL worth holding are the sponsors. If they see more value in a super league then one way or the other it will happen - and I would guess there are big corporations already signed up.

There was a lot of opposition to the EPL but once that was where the money went...

Methinks there is a compromise at the end of all this as it will certainly need buy-in from the big German & French clubs too.

Personally I have very little/no interest in competitions that Everton FC are not playing in.

Stan (296),You think so Stan, over something as important this? Tongue in cheek Stan, are you a descendant of Neville Chamberlain?

I see Man Utd have withdrawn from the European Club Association and Ed Woodward stepped down from his roles within UEFA.

In football terms. True sporting terms. This is just another few degrees of fuckedness. But we've been heading down this path so we can't act too surprised. I mean, is the Champions League in its current form not a European Super League? Certainly the proposed changes were going to make it that way.

The difference is the permanence and the grab for power.

From a PL perspective it needs stamping on. It feels like the Super League has been gradually working it's way through our defences. It's at the last man now - and we can't jockey any more. It needs to go two footed and take man, ball, the lot. If we miss now, there's nothing left.

Cave or compromise now and there's no limit to what that lot can do.

They've announced they're joining an illegitimate league. That's expressly against the rules. There should be unprecedented points deductions right now. If you're serious, you don't wait to see how hard the punches are before you land your own.

I didn't realise the format for the ESL, two groups of ten, playing the other nine teams in the group home and away. So an additional eighteen games, or twenty three for the two teams who make the final. Add in the champions league games, which is usually anything between ten - twelve games for these clubs, and could be even more if the amount of teams in the CL is to increase. So they could be looking at anything of upto an additional twenty eight - thirty games per season. Not far short of a regular premier league season. Add in free weeks for international breaks, and just one thing bothers me .

How on earth are they going to fit all these games in? They won't bother with the fa or league cup, not that that will bother them.

N.B Man Utd have now left the ECA. Does that mean they won't be allowed back in, and also I'd kick them out of Europe now.

To all those wishy washy types who say, “oh this will happen, you can't do anything about it. Just accept it and move on” etc... I say, thank god you weren't around in 1939 or we'd all be speaking German right now.

This has to be stopped in its tracks. If it is allowed to happen the domestic leagues will eventually wither and die. The five “special guests” invited to participate is in order to start a food fight. Divide and conquer. Can you imagine the scrap to get into this trillionaires club if only for one season?

Stand up now and ban them from all competitions before they ban the rest of us from the game we love.

I can see this being a disaster in the short-term. Very few people outside the fans of the breakaway teams will pay to watch a these clubs play each other week in, week out.

Teams like Everton will benefit though. If West Ham, Leicester, Everton and Leeds qualify for the Champions League then so much the better. It will help attract players and generate more revenue.

I assume fans of Real Betis and Lazio are thinking the same thing.

Colin,

Sadly I'm not sure what effect anyone's opinion about this will have on the final outcome. At the end of the day, you will have the decision being made by those ‘honest organisations' who run our game, with guidance from an array of lawyers, and most importantly, money men.

Personally, I always hope for the best, but given their track record, it may be that I could be disappointed. But I'm open to being delighted!

Alan #301 - another great point, re work permits for non-nationals.

So many issues here that work for and against the idea of a super league. I know it's said that the lawyers will have been all over this. But will they be on top of all the non-legal forces: the degree of determination of organisations such as the EPL and UEFA; the reaction of fans from the super league clubs themselves (including possible though unlikely refusal to buy sponsors' products); the "soft" power of politicians; the reactions from sponsors of these clubs.

Paul # 314. There are still plenty of massive clubs in Europe. Rangers, Celtic, Ajax, feyenoord, PSV, Lyon, Lille, Benfica, Porto, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, Villarreal, the list goes on.

Relegate all six of them at the end of this season.

Keep the bottom 3 and promoted Championship sides.

This unbridled greed and shameless anti competitive power grab needs to be snuffed out once and for all with proportional sanctions.

We do need an independent regulator like Gary Neville says. It must set out a charter that never allows competition to be diminished further.

The game needs protecting, or it will lose its heart and soul.

Dave@309: There's no doubt a lot of detail behind these proposals that we don't know about. I certainly don't know enough to be outraged. This issue is important up to a point, but at the end of the day we're talking about elite football where money rules, including at Everton, with or without a Super League. And elite football is a LUXURY consumer item. It's not food, warmth or healthcare, it's a fucking sport to entertain people. Let's get a grip.

A few comments. First of all I share the outrage. Big question is how to stop it, protect our club, secure Bramley Moore Dock and (in the best of all possible worlds) send the RS into oblivion or at least the Liverpool Sunday League. Initial thoughts on how to stop it.

I have spent a couple of hours going through the handbook of the Premier League. Its an interesting document from all sorts of perspectives. Masses of details about the technical aspects of running a football club and putting on a game. A good reference point...It even has, what I have re-named the 'Goodison clause' on the matter of obstructed views:
“A club will not be penalised for a failure to provide a full and clear view of the whole pitch under these Rules if the permanent infrastructure of its Stadium is such that this is not possible (for example due to the presence of stanchions supporting the roof of a stand)...”

You can see immediately why the oligarchs and billionaires (from wherever they originate) hate the principles of free competition.
The current arrangements for distribution of broadcast revenue is in accordance with the pot divided by 210 to make individual shares. The champions get 20 shares but everyone gets a good allocation right down to lower mid table. For example, 8th gets 13 shares, 13th gets 8 shares. The relegated clubs get 3, 2 and 1 respectively. I would argue that this aids competition though I imagine players don't get particularly motivated about earning another share for their club.
There is no doubt that what is being implemented as we speak is a very serious attack on the competitiveness of football.
The first point to note is that each club playing in the Premier League in any particular season has a single share. A relegated club in effect hands over its share to the promoted club taking its place. So each club in theory is equal.
Secondly, the rules define the relationship between the clubs and the league. Specifically it is stated that membership of the league constitutes an agreement to be bound by and comply with not only the laws of the game of football and the Football Association Rules but also the statutes and regulations of FIFA and UEFA.
There is also a good faith clause:
“In all matters and transactions relating to the League each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith.” Bit of a joke in the circumstances.

It would be truly wonderful to simply have a vote to kick these people out of the PL and maybe at the same time reform dramatically the relationships with the lower divisions and perhaps have some sort of British league.
There are two potential ways of doing so it would seem.
Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent 3 person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment which can range from fines to points deductions and in extreme cases expulsion.
The second approach is a membership vote. A majority of not less than three quarters of the members is required. Clearly 6 out of the 20 teams in the PL would vote against their expulsion. Maybe that is why a team that has not been successful in its domestic championship for 60 years has been selected over Ajax and Benfica (not to mention Everton with four league championships since 1961).
The consequences of expulsion are delightful:

"Upon a club casing to be a member under rule B.5 other than because of relegation the registrations of its players except loans shall vest in the league and can be transferred as the league shall think fit.. and receive the transfer fee..and have the power to make a grant to either or both of any club to which ‘compensation fees' are owed by the former member and the former member."

I suspect that the expulsion route will be difficult to put it mildly. However, there are 3 possible lots of sanctions which can be applied on a rolling basis. First, through UEFA and FIFA which will be falling over themselves to protect their own herds of cash cows..including the international bans many have talked about on this thread. Secondly, points deduction season by season..to continue as they get relegated. Thirdly, strict fair play rules to make it impossible for them to use their initial 350 million euros domestically and further points deductions and fines if they fail to comply.
Well that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back. Back to the day job.
COYB

This is inevitable when you have Barcelona a billion pound in debt and Real Madrid not far behind, the owners of the British clubs all non British so their only allegiance is to money not the Premier league. I see so far there are no clubs from Germany joining this elite group despite them having the current Champions league winners. I think Arsenal and Spurs have only been invited for their location ie London.

The reason these rich and powerful clubs are happy to join this league is simple with greedy agents and even greedier players they need as much income as they can. When you have agents openly declaring that their players want a guarantee of £500,000 per week and one claiming his client wants £1 million a week then clubs who want to sign these type of players have become a prisoner to their own mismanagement and greed.

My main concern is how will this effect Everton, obviously the money and the better players will all move to this new league, so will Usmanov and Moshiri still see building a new £500 million stadium be viable. Given the fact that the revenue from Sky has underpinned most Premier league clubs for years, with Sky along with Amazon and Netflix bidding for the rights to show the games from the new league how much will they be prepared to invest in Premier league games. I see the national leagues around the world are initially saying any player who plays in the new league will not be allowed to play for their Country, well it didnt deter the cricketers who joined the Kerry Packer league, and practically without exception every top player joined that new league despite being banned from playing for their country. So while in an ideal world the players would love to play for their country I think most will accept it as a price worth paying.

Andrew,

Yes you would need 14 clubs to support or defeat any motion. Now that might be very interesting!

Andrew #320. Great work!

I wasn't necessarily looking for another reason to hate/loathe/despise L*******l Football Club but I'll happily take it.

Munich and Dortmund are not joining. This could, hopefully, die at birth.

D o'N 201. 'Tottenham. 2 times English champions, last time being 1961 are considered European elite and in the club? The irony.'

Christine has a 'gut feeling' !. I just wonder are we not all just a bit peeved that Everton have not been included? I wonder what our reaction would be if we were one of 'them'?

Just asking. I'm dead against the whole shebang!!

Yeh but the teams involved should still be massively penalised Colin.

See Bayern, Dortmund and PSG have told them to jog on . maybe there will be something left for those not involved after all. That being the case I would be quite happy for them to feck off.

Brian re the new ground... . has the point of no return already been passed ?

Thx j

There's a lot being said about what a second rate league it would be without the likes of the RS and Citteh. But as the overseas fanboys of the SUper League keep telling us, times change, things move on. Yup. And if you know your history, time was that Villa were a much bigger club than City. And of course, we were a bigger club too. Nottingham Forest have won the top domestic league and the European Cup more than once, while Spurs have won fuck all of any note in a generation. Arsenal are now a mid-table side, where they were title winners a few years ago. Man Utd and Man City have both been languishing in lower leagues in my lifetime. As for Chelsea I remember standing in the Shed End amongst their Nazi knuckleheads when they were lucky to draw nil nil with Norwich in their fight against relegation.

Yup things change. So, RIP Liverpool, RIP Man Utd, RIP Man CIty, RIP Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. It will take a while to settle down, but I'm happy to be fighting for the PL title with Villa, Leicester, Leeds, West Ham etc, and in the European Cup with Bayern, Ajax, Benfica, Roma and all the other big names of my youth.

Will we be attracting the likes of Richarlison to play for us? Honestly, I don't know and, honestly, I don't give a fuck. Was
it any less exciting winning the title in the 80s with the team we had then, than watching the "household names" we have now play their turgid shit under our "world class" maanger?

The only big thing about the Big Six, is the size of their pockets and of the owners' egos. I feel terrible for their fans (except the RS obviously) because they're having their history, integrity, and place in the community ripped from them. But it's up to them to stop it happening.

Andrew@320. Thanks for that.

This idea was bound to happen. Football has been ruined by the outrageous amounts of money that has resulted from various TV football deals over the past 20 years and has become more and more detached from the ordinary supporter.

Gary Neville is employed by SKY and he would have to accept that his employer helped to create the money monster. The European Super League venture is just the next step in the process.

I hope it's not too late to say stop to the madness but I fear that the train may have already left the station.

If, Everton were an established top 6 team I would like to think that they would not join the venture if asked.

Morinho sacked

Jose Mourinho sacked!

I like the Chamberlain reference Dave Abrahams. I can just see the Chair of the Premier League proudly waving his piece of white paper having secured a deal and assurances from the Devil's pact, only to get royally shafted by the inevitable dawn of evil on the horizon. Only football doesn't have a Churchill, who despite the calls from many on his own side to do a subsequent deal, stood firm, stood up to the bullies and eventually defeated them.

Apologies, went off on a historical tangent there.

We're at a critical juncture here. This is such a shot across the bows of UEFA and the dinosaurs at the Premier League that there's no going backwards here. These fuckers will either need to be accomodated somehow, or given their P45 and left to start their own gravy train.

Either way will be utterly ruinous for football in the short and medium term. This is a slow motion car crash being played out in front of us, and it's been going on for decades.
It was always going to end up here. Either way, things right now are pretty much fucked. How do the economic projections stack up for BMD now???

What a world.

Tottenham Hotspur

Big club my fucking arse!

Brian Harrision.

That was an uncomfortable read and as you say, Everton is and always will be our main concern. However, I do not see any reason why Everton will not continue to fill their new stadium as most blues I know would go and watch them play in the Conference league never mind a new Premier league. The cost, well it will always be loaded onto EvertonFC, the docklands area needs the new stadium and after government approval I would be surprised that this fails to happen.

Teams have come and gone over the past 5 decades that I have gone to Goodison, big teams like Forest, Blackburn and Wednesday have all withered and big teams have come back like Villa and Leeds. So obviously big teams will arise, its the circle of life.

If the Premier League stays strong and does not "bow" to the big six then I can still see a strong league that will provide strong competition in the ongoing CL games.

Brent I have been watching this build up for weeks. Clear as day them Spurs players were going through the motions on friday.

Sky sports are one horrible company.

Yes, Paul. A powerful force, players, when they want to be.

So sky sports news immediately dropped the awkward ESL conversation to concentrate on the Jose sacking. How convenient.

Scandal Brent. Had no respect for him since day one but Sky getting Pogba to help the situation is disgraceful. I think he more or less knew Friday too.

This was my take to football fans in general on the super league story and I don't care if it ruffles a few feathers.

People are not going to like this but I speak genuinely and if people are man enough to admit it, they'll know where I am coming from.

When supporters are following clubs that oringinate 200 miles (and more) from their own front door, it makes a mockery of the actual sport and gives these ruthless businessmen every reason to expoit it.

Where is the local pride in following clubs that are hundreds of miles from you and lets have it right, Man U and Liverpool fans buy from touts that exploit their day out every home game so what is a ruthless businessman from overseas going to do?

I also can't believe how excited people have got over Gary Neville calling for things he knows the Premier League won't do.

If they relegated United he'd have no job.

If I was Fifa, Uefa and such I would not ban players from the world cup or the euros and every other tournament. Inform the clubs they have to formally resign from the domestic leagues as they can not formally be in 2 different competitions and once they all do that then turn around and say sorry but we have now decided that if you left your domestic league then you are no longer eligible due to not being member clubs of a Fifa based league and then have their leagues not accept them back when it all falls apart and wave goodbye to greedy clubs.

Colin,

Spurs are clearly a powerful force in world football! Of course the sacking of their manager is of interest to the whole football world.

His sacking was as inevitable as the ESL!

Paul I take your point. I think we'd both exclude those distant supporters who aren't just jumping on a bandwagon of success.

Not many voices in support.
Does that not speak volumes ?

No such thing as coincidence... Spurs are already making plans. 🤣

The statement/press release last night was pretty conclusive. This is happening boys.

... What the landscape for those left out will look like afterwards is our main concern.

It will make for an interesting summer transfer window.
Max Aaron's for example.
Would he want to leave Norwich ? Does it make Everton a more attractive option as one of the potentially remaining "bigger clubs". Can you, at 21, risk isolation for the financial returns it may bring? What of transfer values ?
So much more is created from this announcement once you dig a little deeper.

Not really Brent. I have never got my head around fans supporting clubs from Cities they have no affinity to.

In a lot of Liverpool fans cases, stood by the sides of scousers they wouldn't give the time of day to away from football.

In almost all cases I know, its always been jumping on the bandwagon through either admiring a certain player or a clubs success.

If there is no local pride, which is why it all started, then how is it a sport?

Linfield are poor but Irish fans are willing to fund United and Liverpool 100s of miles away. Why?

Weird clingy people that need meaning in their lives I think and they'll all be crying now because an America dictates what their club does.

I get where you're coming from to a degree Paul, but wouldn't go fully with that as I am one who has to make that 200 mile trip to Goodison these days. I understand what you mean though, there has to be some connection. Historically in our game, that came from our local roots or was passed on from our families.

You lead me onto a point I have made previously about the Premier Leauge post Covid and is probably even more pertinent with regards to the self-declared Super League. They don't need the match going traditional fan who eats at the Goodison Supper Bar, watches the match and heads to their local after the match.

Primarily, they just need to make sure their product is being consumed on the screens throughout south east Asia and beyond. Sorry to borrow a much used phrase, but then they just need to attract enough (and there will be enough) happy clapping corporate or tourist spectators (I won't call them fans), to resemble some form of atmosphere. Given the recent manner in which Champion's League fixtures have been played, even the location need not matter. In their warped minds, football can be something without the fans. Sustainable? To be seen.

Ancelotti sacked from Chelsea after playing Everton Jose sacked from Spurs after playing Everton...

Danny if people are honest, the actual sporting side of the game is horrible.

There are clubs that will never get bigger and never complain while the ones with everything want more and more.

With all the bandgwagon glory hunter phoneys in this country, its hardly a suprise that a ruthless overseas owner will take advantage.

Just like touts, talksport, BT and Sky do.

Robin Arsenal next!

Super League, my arse - League of Greed more like!

I don't have any concerns that Everton would fill BMD but I do have concerns that this could blow a hole in our funding strategy. The new stadium isn't viable without a sizeable income from TV rights. Moshiri's strategy has been to make Everton a club competing for a place in the Champions League - drawbridge been pulled up so what does that mean for us. That should be the focus.

I fear a lot of posters here are missing some essential points. The same people who set up the Premier League back in the day - those people. They didn't create football. Or create the players. They didn't write therules of the game. Or give the clubs their history. They didn't create the fans.

Despite all that, they were able to hijack control of the game and line their own pockets from football for thirty years.
What is to stop this ESL group from doing the same? They are in no way different to those greedy Premier League founders decades ago. Those owners and spivs succeeded; why wouldn't this?

As far as coups go, it appears to be a tried and tested formula they're using here. These 12 clubs will need to be either accomodated with more money - appeasement anyone? - or excommunicated. Either will be absolutely ruinous for football in the short and medium term future. This is horrendous news.

Even at present interest rates, the commercial case for new stadium finance would appear to be untenable. Rocks in a pond have a ripple effect - this is like a mountain into a blow up pool.

My instincts tell me this won't happen, but something that will happen is that uefa and the prem will give these club lots of sweets 'n' candy to be good boys and come back into the fold.

They'll get a lifetime membership of the CL without the worry of having to qualify each season and other wonderful benefits.

This looks like a serious attempt to gain leverage.

I love the outrage on Sky Sports. The very channel that coined the "Big Six" phrase and has done it's bit to help ruin the game.

I'm pretty sure this will happen asap, and there are 350m reasons why they wont mind being banned from our league. Even if sky, bbc, bt refuse to show it there's dazn and amazon. Mother fuckers. Perhaps they can be banned from next years CL and we will qualify by finishing 8th.

Phil McNulty onto Spurs!!

"As diversion tactics go, Spurs seem to have come up with a belter there".

Danny @348 - exactly. I remember joking at the start of the empty-ground pandemic thing, that the owners of the clubs are going to look at this and lick their lips. Yep, games can be played anywhere, yep we can pipe in the crowd noises if necessary, and yep we don't need local fans, there are millions of tourists and corporate clients who will pay a lot more than a working class scouser to go to a match at Anfield. The money mainly comes from international television watching fans now. The average RS doesn't live in Walton, they live in Malaysia or Dubai.

The owners of these clubs believe they're morally right here. The majority of football fans around the world actually want to watch "their" club playing Barcelona every week, not Brighton, and they give zero fucks about the communities, the histories, the geography of Liverpool or Spurs or Chelsea. The owners are serving the wider fan base. The ordinary domestic fan is paying the price of globalisation.

I always thought football would eat itself up with greed. Looks like I was right.

Craig, sky dropped the ESL story like a hot potato. Now it's all Jose, Jose, Jose

Of course Spurs have timed this - Jose knew he was toast the other day - sat there at Goodison knew his number was up.

Thing is - Spurs don't need to worry about qualification for the CL now so its not a gamble.

Stan (319), football used to be a sport to entertain people, it's been a massive business for a very long time, John Moore's realised that and said so while he was Everton's chairman, I, for one, don't have to get a grip, I know where football comes in the scheme of life, it is still a very big part of people's lives, many people's lives, playing, watching, live or through TV and this plan by a few clubs to disconnect from the rest of their various leagues needs to be sorted out now, one way or the other, it is a very big issue Stan that people will worry about as well as the every other day things they have to cope with.

We'll be hearing a lot about rule L9 in the coming days. Be prepared.

The proper answer to all this is for the EPL/Football League / UEFA to come up with something so attractive that once this Harlem Globetrotters tribute competition gets going, it will rapidly die an ignominious death taking JPMorgan's cash with it.

One approach would be to televise all matches on a free (or very low cost) high quality streaming channel. This would make advertising on the channel very attractive, especially to global brands (say, Apple, HSBC, Google, Nike) and give huge penetration into markets everywhere.

A second, more negative, approach would be to launch a whole raft of damaging comparisons - “European Soccer League for football as legitimate as Joe Biden's presidency”, “Watch the has-beens who couldn't stand competition”.

Start a real European league to run in parallel with national leagues. This could start with all the teams from the top couple of leagues of each country playing in a series of ten team Euro-leagues with the top three or four being promoted. Over a few years a new series of international leagues would emerge.

This would replace the Europa League, Champions League and probably one or two cup competitions, but it would be marvellous to see a genuinely open competition where West Ham, Brentford and Preston NE would also get their European trips to Frankfurt, Nice, Malaga and so on.

The biter bitten

'The Original Greed is Good League' (aka, the premier league) and its bigger ne'r do well Uncle the - 'More Greed is even better European Champions League' are all now wringing their hands and going 'Oh waily, waily waily' about Injustice and infamy from the depths of what passes for their 'Moral High Ground.'

It's enough to make a fucking cat laugh...as sanctimonious hypocritical shite goes this stuff is gold medal.

"A joint statement by the Football Association, Uefa and the Premier League said that they were “united in our efforts to stop this cynical project” which is “founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever. This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long — enough is enough."

Then from sky who also...just by chance caused all this and nowstand to lose their golden geese...

"It's pure greed; they're imposters” Neville said. “The owners of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City, they are nothing to do with football in this country.

"Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham aren't even in the Champions League. And they want a God-given right to be in there? They're an absolute joke.

"The time has come now to have independent regulators to stop these clubs from having the power base. Enough is enough."

Gazza mate, (you self serving tosser) enough was enough in 1992.

That said, I hope they come down on them like a ton of bricks.

The 'Super' teams may be about to discover that fans don't care as much about money as they think they do.

Once you go beyond the greed involved in the PL and CL, why would the average fan care if you add one more zero to the bank balance.

Let them go. Sooner the better. These teams are already a part of the tourism industry just like EuroDisney and West End musicals. They might as well admit it and go. Change the rules of the game. Astro turf or whatever it is now, plastered with adverts. Penalty box sponsored by Standard Charter, centre circle by Dyson Vaccum Cleaners, Week 4, Manchester Amazon vs Tesla Utd, unlimited or compulsory subs, bigger goals, 4 quarters to allow for better advert breaks and more in game betting.Soap Opera storylines like fake wrestling. It will happen eventually anyway. Teams already have their own TV stations. This is the fork in the road between us and them. Football will survive because ordinary people enjoy playing and watching it. Small clubs might even pick up fans from the tourism teams. It's already impossible to get tickets at short notice for any team in the Premier League anyway. Eventually the Tourism League will be populated by players who are looking for a last payday after their proper careers go into decline. By the sound of it real supporters of the tourism clubs don't want it anyway so we should let the lot of them go and drown in their corporate prawn soup bowls in their boxes in their loft conversion stands.

As a Liverpool native (albeit now exiled elsewhere) I get the local supporter thing: and for me supporting Everton connects me to my roots. However it would be wrong to refuse the heartfelt support of Americans like Mike G and Jamie C for example. You can be a genuine supporter from afar even if most of the happy clappers aren't. I also think it is blinkered to see the ESL as just a Yank thing, even though it seems modelled on the NFL without good features (eg the draft). The rot set in with the Premier League that I never agreed with anyway...

Apparently, it is Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool who are driving this in England.Link

Having had time to digest this I have a feeling this is an attempt by the yanks to destroy all the footballing controlling bodies and take total control of the game.
It will be interesting to find out how many clubs knew about this, you can't keep something as big as this a secret until the last minute.
On Mourinho... I quite like the man TBH and I think he is a man of integrity despite his posturing.
I just wonder if he's expressed his disgust and dislike of the super league to the board and they've sacked him on the basis of that.

Spurs simply don't need him now... Theyre already in Europe next season and forever more.

For those who were still holding onto hope that this was a gambit, this and last nights statement blows that theory out of the water. This is already a done deal. Its happening so good riddance to the whole rotten lot of em.

And For all of Skys faux outrage it wouldnt surprise me if they are involved if you dig deep enough. After all... . theyve got form.

You're not wrong Derek. The Premier League inception started us on this road. The Champion's League was the next step to protecting the elite if they had an off season and didn't win their national league.

This however is a step too far in the spirit of competition. Protected to the degree they will always be in the club regardless. Even the Champions League doesn't afford that shameless entitlement.

And although the Premier League over the years has seemed like a club of few with other making the numbers, it has provided competition. People mention Leicester, but at the other end, there have been some big name casualties. Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester City and Aston Villa all suffering relegation. Not spared it because of their name or stature. We even tried our best on 2 occasions, getting out of jail by virtue of a domino falling-like Wimbledon keeper and, in hindsight, a goal that never was for Bolton Wanderers.

Rule L9 that Colin refers to:
L.9.
Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men's first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member.

Larry, good point. We shouldn't denigrate OUR overseas fans. They certainly are not glory hunters or plastics.

Micky Norman, if this farce is allowed to develop that is exactly how football will end up.

So Uefa have confirmed their new format with places guaranteed for "elite" clubs aka their own Super League. This is why they are angry nothing at all to do with fairness.

Either way all this is bad for Everton. This is going to impact the funding of our new ground.

I have seen some unfounded rumours of an explosive morning at Tottenham and that Mourinho refused to take the team out to train in protest at the Super League. Total speculation and possibly convenient urban myth.

So - Nuno Espirito Santo the next to be offered the THFC poisoned Chalice?
Sums up THFC.

Back on topic. I've tried to read all through this before posting but every time I get near the end I refresh and there's 10 more posts to read so it's taken an age! Some really interesting points being made from different perspectives but the common denominator, to a man, everyone posting is against the idea of an ESL (unless I've missed someone).

I think John Boon way back at about 238 has come closest to my mindset.

I won't be even slightly upset if the so called "Super Six" leave and never come back. We still have 86 competitive teams who will continue to provide football for their doting fans.

Precisely, John. So long as the leagues of the respective countries can continue to flourish financially, and I think they will, the departure of the protagonists from the EPL won't be missed except by their own fans of course for whom (the genuine ones) I actually feel quite sorry. Even RS. I'm sure we've all got some RS mates of our own who aren't twats.

I have been a blue, supporting Everton for 50 years, ever since we moved to Merseyside but Everton were not my first love. I started out as blue, for sure, but following a second devision club back then and my enjoyment of the match was exactly as it is now. The main difference being I could go to every home game by just turning up and paying at the turnstile whereas now it is nigh on impossible to get to matches. A season ticket is a non starter living way down south now and most of my watchng the Blues is at away games. Speaking personally, a benefit of Covid for me has been being able to watch every Everton game live on tv rather than battling with erratic obscure streaming.

So, concurring with John, there remains the rest of the entire football league with fans who enjoy the game and supporting THEIR team watching what I would call real football. The bulk of the revenue propping up this venture is probably going to be coming from the far east and U.S with a healthy but smaller subscription from Europe, supporters who will pay to watch their household names ply their skills and I can envisage virtually every match looking like a sanitised exhibition match. I mean, even now, how much excitement is generated by the Champs league?

Tbh, I would not miss one of the six English clubs if they were booted out of the PL other than having the opportunity to beat them (Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs - 2x) My enjoyment of the game does not come from watching them particularly, so I would let them just fuck off with their greed and glory chasing fans, enjoy their exhibition matches and the occasional thriller, and let the rest of us get on with what we enjoy. The proviso being, as I said before, that the finances and structure of the existing leagues from all countries hold up and aren't decimated.

Has any statement been made yet by any managers does anyone know? One wonders wether Mourinho might have viewed an opinion in the past few days.

EDIT - Just seen Danny's post which appeared as I was composing this. Interesting. Could be the first of others. I hope Jose did just that.

The premier league altered a lot in football, but it retained the basics in terms of how you qualified to take part.

The dominance of the richest clubs is nothing new. The gap has got wider as the sums involved became more obscene, but at least there was still the dream.

Leicester did the unimaginable ( they were hardly underfunded mind) to prove everything is possible. This move screws all that over.

I would understand it more if it was a full breakaway. No domestic commitment. The potential for TV rights across the world is huge. Every where east of Europe gets to watch football in prime time evening slots on dart and Sunday. But to desire to remain in the domestic competition when the revenue they will generate from a closed competition is just bellendery of the highest order

Bundesliga club Borussia Dortmund have said they and German rivals Bayern Munich both rejected proposals to form a breakaway league.

In a statement on Monday, Dortmund chairman Hans-Joachim Watzke said that the members of the European Club Association (ECA) had met on Sunday evening and expressed "a clear opinion to reject the foundation of a Super League".

He added that the two German clubs on the ECA board, Bayern and Dortmund, had taken "100 percent" the same position "in all discussions".

"Mourinho refused to take the team out to train in protest at the Super League. Total speculation "

Sounds like total shite Danny, but I thank you for reporting it. Everything around Mourinho has to be viewed fairly cynically; the man is obsessive about how he has cultivated his reputation. He clearly has a "spin doctor" or three in his camp.

It hasn't escaped me Jose has managed no less than five of the clubs trying to found this so called Super League. His fingerprints are no doubt all around it.

Watching Spurs, Arsenal and the RS finish near the bottom of their lauded ESL would be fucking hilarious!

The schadenfreude on TW and must club sites would be massive.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/open-letter-liverpool-owner-john-20415024

I'd say so too Derek.

Class from the Germans. If Bayern aren't in, there is negotiating to be done. They're forcing the hand of UEFA in my opinion.

Sadly we are still awaiting a statement from EFC. Aston Villa's chief executive has already condemned the plan.

Peter Reid sums it up;
“The elitism is driving me mad” he said. “You have to be careful what you wish for in football. I think they (the Super League clubs) will put the sort of elite players out in the so-called Super League and the Premier League will be devalued, and it shouldn't be. Some of the toughest games when I was playing for Everton and Manchester City were against teams who had come up and been promoted, and the atmosphere was great.

“There is a devaluing of the domestic league which I hate. There should always be an aspiration to get to the elite. Burnley were going out of business a few years ago and are now a Premier League side. You have to have that dream, the tradition, the heritage of these football clubs. To have an elite 12 or 20, it doesn't sit right with me.

“It's all money. Real Madrid have massive debt, Barcelona have massive debt, Florentino Perez, the president of Real Madrid, has driven this. I love the competition of football, and I love the fans being there. If you have an elitism? Nah. Not for me.”

Start off with an across the board Tony Kay-esque sine-die bans from all FIFA sanctioned games.
Then Lance Armstrong every medal and title from every current player and member Club of The Twatish Twelve (TTT pat pending) and award them to the runners up...even if you have to go down the lists to the preliminaries.

Then start really getting tough.

Telling and good article from Prentice Thomas.

Some proper "ooof" quotes there. If he was a prosecuting lawyer, the defence would be squirming!!

It was fifteen founders and five passengers if I am understanding things properly. Is it fair to assume PSG, Dortmund and Bayern are the three hold outs?
Fair play to them, but a 12-3 split is not a good start for the UEFA camp. Those three spots will presumably be dangled elsewhere. Rangers? Ajax? Galatasaray? Benfica? Monaco?
The six English clubs out of twelve confirms my earlier hypothesis the really big clubs were desperate to get a large income stream in Euros to hedge against likely sterling depreciation. It's hard to see further English clubs being added when they represent six from twenty to begin with though?
The breakaway league concept has a fairly sound plan at this stage and the room to gain further leverage by adding extra members. This has too much momentum now to come to a clean stop; there will be fallout.

The Leeds Chairman, Andrea Radriazzani has just unequivocally denounced the proposal. It would help me as an Evertonian to know what Moshiri's position on this is, particularly in view of the planned new stadium.

In another Leeds tweet, Leeds were described as facing "European Greed League side", Liverpool tonight in the Premier League! 😂

Mike Gaynes @ 20

Mike,

I fully understand that those USA players will be feeling national pride and want to play in the WC, but MONEY has power and pull all of its own.

These nasty breakaway clubs will be offering bribes all over the place and young Pulisic et al will be tempted by Emperor and Darth Vader's dark side of the force.

Larry, as one of those Mike criticised (albeit in a most civilised manner, thanks Mike) for referring to the RS and Manure as “American mafia-owned” clubs, I'd like to offer a bit of perspective.

The best companies I worked for were American, Arthur Andersen (years before the accountancy firm's greed wrecked it), Merrill Lynch (a total snake pit, but you knew exactly where you stood with pretty much everyone), Citicorp (another one where there was pretty much open fighting between divisions but zero hypocrisy) and a couple of startups. I loved visiting Chicago (still my favouriteUS city), New York, LA and San Francisco, and Raleigh NC and lots of places in between (however, I loathe Washington which strikes me as like Johannesburg but without the culture and feeling of safety).

When I used to visit a lot, the NFL was probably the biggest TV sport, but I learned that while many, if not most, American sports fans enjoyed professional football and supported a reasonably local team, most of them were only enduringly loyal to their college teams. One colleague amazed me when he told me his school - University of Tennessee - had a stadium which held over 100,000 and where your best chance of getting a season ticket was to inherit it from your father! I had never even heard of the University of Tennessee (though I assumed there probably was one) and it's hardly the first state you'd think of.

So I sort of reasoned that Americans probably have a sort of dual loyalty in sport. One - which is like our attachment to Everton - is life long, where success or failure are not factors in our adherence and is never changed. The other is almost more like an attachment to a brand of phone - Apple v Samsung v Huawei (haha!) etc which is a combination of convenience (my iPhone works nicely with my iPad and iMac...) and genuine choice, but is no more permanent than was my serial buying of Macdonald's rather than Burger King or Wendy's.

This two-kinds-of-loyalty thing is fine. One is serious and permanent, the other is essentially transactional. This seems a sensible, rational and perfectly honourable position to have.

There is, however, a most unpleasant strand in some aspects of corporate America exemplified by the likes of Goldman Sachs, MacKinsey Consulting, Enron, the New York Times and maybe now even the once wonderful Boeing with the 737Max where lobbying, political bribery and outright criminality are perfectly OK as long as the revenue stream continues. Sadly, it is this strand of corporate US practice we see in the Manchester United / Liverpool / Arsenal ownership and management.

It is the latter type of US business I really want not to see running football. The sort of thing we have seen over the past few years in the technology-political-media rats' nest which appears to be completely divorced from truth, honesty or legality and now appears to run the country entirely for the benefit of oligarchs and supported by mob rule.

The only thing I had left to enjoy this season was hoping to see the RS miss out on a Champions League spot for next season. Last week, I feared they might overcome a 2 goal deficit against Real Madrid, go and win the thing and qualify that way. Of course, they had a plan B...

Paul A Smith, your view about someone who's not from the Liverpool area is like the small minded people who say you can't be a true Evertonian as your not from the area. As one of these fans, I've been constantly mocked by this for the past 30 years by supposed fellow blues. Closest I've ever lived to the city was when I lived in Blackpool as a kid. I spent most of my life in Hampshire and was introduced to the club by my dad's best friend who was a scouser.
As soon as I had my license I'd be driving up nearly once a month to goto Goodison, about a 12 hour round trip. Now living in the states, I've got up at ungodly hours religiously to watch the games and spent thousands on traveling back to watch them live. But as I don't have a scouse accent or have lived in the city, it's ridiculous that I'm even a blue??

The worst thing about this is everyone moaning about the plans that won't happen but nobody causes a stink over how football is today and how todays football has got us in a position for a super league to be a thought.

Its a closed shop already but we have sections that think we can spend less than the top 6 and compete with them.

Kristian you can do what you want I just find it weird and I am giving the reasons people exploit the game.

I'd have supported Blackpool coming from Blackpool but your choice.

Were there a crowd tonight, it would be interesting to see the reception given in West Yorkshire to our red cousins.

I posted earlier that government soft power could be a force against a super league. Boris Johnson announcement just confirming that.

Does anyone know how many of the Greed League sides attempted to furlough their staff?

I see some the RS supporters groups have requested that their flags be removed from the Kop for upcoming home games. It seems some of them do have a soul after all.

Forget the politics Brent, he uses some powerful words that resonate:

"These clubs are not just great global brands - of course they're great global brands - they're also clubs that have originated historically from their towns, from their cities, from their local communities, they should have a link with those fans, and with the fan base in their community."

Mr Johnson said the six Premier League clubs involved "must answer to their fans" before deciding to launch the breakaway competition.

Danny, yes, totally agree. Powerful words.

Dave@363: I disagree, it's a small issue about a luxury entertainment.

£350m did some one mention... Are they getting Boris's NHS money?

This is all a big cover up, starter pack for a reformed Champions League, which UEFA also want.

People may not like Simon Jordans opinion but I think hes the only pundit willing to be realistic through our mainstream media.

And hes sees right through Jargon hes probably used himself before today.

One more final response to Mike Gaynes (244)and my own opinion (248) (what I thought would be my final one.)

I have had about four hours sleep as I just could not get the break away of the SIX UNMENTIONABLES out of my mind. However since arising from my slumber I was able to read the 100 plus posts since then and I feel more than ever that it is an American style structure that the dreadful six are trying to bring to the "British "game.

It would appear that MOST posters feel the same so for one definitely last time " I am not anti American but I DO feel that it is the Billionaire Americans who are who are foremost in trying to change our structure"

AND I do hope that the DESPICABLE six leave and let the other 86 teams continue to enjoy what has been around for 150 years. No more from me but as my dear old long departed mother used to say "You always want to have the last word ". It must be the scouser in me.

How about our club reaching out to the genuine RS fans, and offering a reborn Liverpool a ground share at Bramley Moore?

Yes, unlikely I know, and they'd go nuts at playing at our ground, but just offer them a ten year agreement until they're up and running. All the ex-players and RS heroes like Fowler, Dalglish, Rush etc could get behind it, Klopp could manage it. Let the owners keep their Liverpool FC with its international fan base and see how long it lasts without the backing of the local fans. Who would really own the history of the club, the trophies, the highs and the lows? The reborn fans' Liverpool, or the plastic one playing an endless loop of meaningless games against Barcelona?

This is serious stuff, but of more current concern is whether Kate is the shooter or the shootee in Line of Duty.

Twitter on fire today.
Link

Michael. 406

Are you being serious there?

Liverpool need to be thrown out the Premier League immediately.

No messing about. Get these 6 clubs out now. They would shit themselves.

If the Premier League don't act immediately other clubs may be tempted to leave in the future.

I won't miss them. They have ruined the game with all this money rubbish. The Premier League will prosper without them. GET RID NOW

What I've said since it broke last night Paul. They've fired the first warning shots to provoke the debate. Now we go through Brexit like negotiations until a (probably one-sided) compromise is reached. No one is banning or expelling anyone in my opinion, the 12 have just opened fire first.

Lfc fan on talk sport going absolutely ballistic about the American owners destroying the clubs legacy. They want the kop to be cleared of flags and banners, in protest, for the next home game.

Kudos to the majority of our neighbours, they also hate the idea of this super league.

Relegate them all. They are all skint and will go under anyway. Leave the proper clubs to compete.

Neil @407, please don't reveal if you have insider knowledge.

Quite liked the Gary Neville interview and pretty much agree with everything he has said. Relegate them all, take away their every previous domestic honour and vow that once they have left they can never return to the premier league. The premier league will be totally devalued certainly at the start of the new format but there is no reason why it cant survive a couple of years of turbulence. The true supporters and followers of domestic football will eventually see through and get bored of watching some over hyped glorified SPL every Wednesday night.

Stan (402)I beg to differ, it's only a small issue between us two,but the debate is about a worldwide business trying to hijacked by a small but wealthy part of it.

Neil, I've never watched Line of Duty. Is it any good? I'm feeling saturated here with the ESL so I need some distraction.

Thomas @ 409 yes, radical solutions are needed to reclaim football. As fans, we've let this happen over the past couple of decades. Up to us to save it now. I despise the RS, but I don't despise our collective history, and our connection to the people of Liverpool.

Meanwhile I like this from a French website:

“If this NBA-like tournament is to become reality, it will increase suspense… teams like Ajax, Porto, Roma or Napoli will experience the thrill of reaching the final stages of the Champions League and will actually have a chance to win it. This would also mean that some legendary European teams could experience a second wind – can we dream of seeing Glasgow Rangers, Dynamo Kyiv or Panathinaikos lift a European Cup in the next few years? Can we picture Leicester or West Ham as the next Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest of the 2020s or 2030s? Yes, we can. And that's exciting.”

The other 14 teams should issue a statement demanding the expulsion of the six rebel clubs unless they step back immediately. Let's see what they are made of.

Colin, I'd never seen it prior to lockdown. Binge watched up to date and it is very addictive.

Colin, you're even behind me. My wife introduced me 2 weeks ago . trying to catch up now as the current viewing is series 6 I believe.

Let them have their stupid, boring ESL. But I'd go further than Gary Neville and say exclude them from all domestic leagues and cups.

Would the Premier League really be weaker without the so called "Big 6"? I'm sure players would want to jump ship if there was a potential to be banned from playing in World Cups, European Championships, UEFA club competitions, FA cups etc. The "Big 6" will weaken, the other PL clubs will get stronger and the competition will be even more competitive.

If these clubs compete in BOTH the ESL and a Premier League it would be grossly unfair. Their squads will only get stronger with the extra revenue, the PL will get weaker as a result, and the fixtures will be dictated by the "elite".

My plea to FIFA, UEFA and the English FA would be this. Exclude the Big 6 from the PL, Championship, League 1 and League 2, FA Cup etc, Champions League, UEFA cup etc NOW. Stop relegation from this seasons PL. Promote 6 teams from all leagues below (including the National League). Then Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, etc can get their wish and start on their suicidal venture. If they want to rejoin later down the road? Fine. You can start off and climb that ladder back from the SherpaVan-Tampax league

Dave@416: There's nothing to stop all those people who oppose this, or indeed all those who are concerned about the amount of money in the game (apparently very very many) from stopping their viewing of elite football and instead going to the likes of Marine and putting monies into their coffers. But they will very likely CHOOSE not to. The people will get what they choose.

This proposal for a Super League is arguably simply yet another manifestation of the massive amount of money in elite football, something which ordinary people can do something about by walking away from it. This is opportunism by a rich minority advantaging from the CHOICES of ordinary people. That's why I consider it a small issue.

Michael. 418

I would rather share a sleeping bag with Elton John than share a ground eith them

Danny 411. Sky sports and Talksport will get a weeks business out of it, its laughable.

The game today is a spit in the face from below the top 4. Fans are on the phones talking about Greed like Greed was discovered today.

I listen these days just to stay ahead of the closed minds and dead heads around us. The majority are reactive and let media do their thinking.

Greed is a subject now like its never been a problem 🙈

Stan(423), is that your answer Stan, walk away from the game they've been following for years and years and just give up !!

Which non league club do you support ?

John @405,

John it may be that they are also believers in free market economics as well as American. As is Abramovich presumably, given the source of his wealth, and the people who run City, for whom their football expenditure is basically a rounding error, in any case.

It's the philosophy that unites them with the other owners, perhaps, rather than their nationality.

Just trying to help.

Thomas,

Elton is a Watford fan remember!

The only encouraging thing I find about this sordid affair is the near total condemnation by their own (top 6) fans. There is still some decency left in football.

"What can the government do?," Lord Triesman was just asked.

Very little, he seemed to think.

The McNulty solution would be an annual windfall tax of all of their profits. They must pay as a result of the benefits derived from the privilege of being based in this country.

The rich owners would be off faster than rats up a drainpipe.

I wonder if the unintended further benefit might mean our neighbours moving, lock, stock and barrel to Norway?

Henry Winter saying that some top players of the super league clubs already expressing their dismay at the planned super league given that they could be banned from appearing for their country.

Dave@426: Yes, it is my answer. Make your choices folks, Super League or no Super League.

I am a late transferee to L.O.D. Wishing the next 6 days away. Nothing to give away but the committed devotees are contributing pages and pages of theories as to what has happened and why. Compares favourably with matchday postings on TW.
For my twopenneth, I reckon H is either a man or a woman and possibly a Police Officer or possibly not.

I believe that these clubs have really underestimated the negative side of this move. I believe that it will be stopped.

Gordon Taylor, PFA, also saying he's already hearing opposition to this from players within the super league clubs.

The LMA have issued a statement condemning this super league bs. I wonder if the remaining 5 managers have signed up for this? Come on kloppy, pep, Tommy, ole, Mikel speak up!!

Some super six traitors players are apparently unhappy about being banned from international football.

I've been refraining as I wanted to stay on topic, but I think there is relevance.

Aside from the money and business approach, this is the lurking problem we have had for decades in building our game from the top down. The elite benefit whilst the rest feed off the scraps as they trickle down. Our grass roots at the very bottom of that food chain is neglected and in poor shape. Then we bemoan the fact our kids aren't good enough, so throw money at the problem to temporarily fix the roof at the top. Meanwhile, the foundations are creaking. Untreated subsidence with cracks everywhere. As some have eluded to here, it's not necessarily a new thing and can be traced as far back as the 60s.

It is no surprise to me that the Germans (for now admittedly) have refrained from this. Their system is built on solid foundations from the bottom up. They understand and value what makes them and actively promote grass roots. We just focus on winning the next Premier League game and have no concern for the pyramid in reality.

Clubs need to reconnect with the communities that make and made them what they are. I mean no disrespect to the sterling efforts of initiatives such as Everton in the Community, but engage to facilitate the next generation of footballers. Charity work is admirable but all of our clubs could do a lot more to support and enable grass roots football. Boxing clubs in Liverpool help produce fighters and teach young people the virtues of sportsmanship and life values along the way. We, and we're not alone, just seem to wait and hope to get lucky for the next half decent kid to present themselves to us.

I find myself apologising again for another rant. I'm actually off sick today but this has irked me. I'm probably being a foolish football romanist, but maybe, just maybe, this is the moment we can reset, given the apparent universal outrage at this move.

Neil, I have my theories that the twist is going to blow all fans away. Haven't seen last night's episode yet though.

Paul 425#,
Greed has always existed but I think it's more apparent now than at any time in the modern era in the UK. Every day corruption and greed is being reported regarding our government's cronyism. The gap between rich and poor is now greater than it has ever been in the 20th century. Vital workers are offered derisory pay increases and working people have had their rights taken away all because of greed. People are starving because of greed.
The reason most EPL football clubs have billionaire owners is because they present a massive money making opportunity not because they love the clubs they own.

It's pure greed, the owners of the six clubs don't give a shit about the fans. Look at clubs involved, three of them American owners. Agree with Gary Neville, and every club in Europe should refuse to sell or buy players from the 12 teams.

Colin@419

I agree that the other 14 clubs must demand the expulsion of the six, but only after the remaining PL fixtures and the two domestic cup finals are completed.

None of the three domestic trophies would then be awarded to the winners with the exception of Leicester if they won the FA Cup.

The six would also be banned from qualifying for the two European competitions, the places being taken by the highest finishers from the other 14 clubs.

Assuming La Liga and Serie A carry out the same threat, Real Madrid, Juventus and the three American-owned PL clubs could quickly find themselves out on a limb.

Andrew. How can you be so patient? Surely nothing in life beyond serious illness/ death/ nookie, justifies delaying watching?

Players and managers have been financially rewarded by these tops clubs over years, time for them to perhaps have some dignity and humility by paying back their fans and boycotting any move towards this.

This is an absolute disgrace driven purely by greed. If this were to happen I believe that attendances in this country would collapse throughout all our leagues. This cannot be allowed to happen. The future of football in the UK is at stake.

Andrew 439 of course it has always existed but its been a problem in football before this news came out. Now morals are going through the roof.

We are part of a league where Man U and Liverpool get FFP brought in to secure the rules they had been breaking for years and to stop anyone else becoming a Man City or Chelsea. And what did anyone say or do?

For years I bat on about this and get snide replies or ignorance to it all as if the minority is going crazy.

I remember hearing Peter Hitchens state that the Majority often get everything wrong, I think we just realise too late.

Our neighbours laugh at us with 25 year songs and no trophies after they were almost bankrupt not so long ago.

Thats what we are up against and it gets bigger every season and some fans think our manager and average players are not fighting against the powers everytime we play.

I've tried to get loads of people to ask more questions, stand up for our clubs, even fans of other clubs I speak to but nothing happens til trendy Gary Neville speaks a load of passionate shite he doesn't belive himself.

If Gary Neville thought United and Liverpool would be punished he'd collapse in shock. Its ok shouting things that won't happen.

Anyone who's technical could put up the video, of the great Roger waters singing, about - “the joint chiefs of staff, and the brokers on wall st, saying don't make us laugh you're a smart kid” - about a song that was obviously written before the €uro, was invented!

Paul@445: Spot on. There's nothing really new here, it's simply the latest incarnation of a process than concerns a lot of people but which the same people buy into through their willingness to keep watching elite football despite those concerns.

Gary Neville generally talks shite, and this particular episode won't make me view him in a different light. Similar with the other pundits, they can fuck off with their false morality when it suits them.

Listening to various people, including informed sources on Sky, it seems that those lining up against the ESL concept include: some board members of the big 6; current and ex players of the big 6; supporters of the big 6; the PFA, the League Managers Association; clubs outside the big 6; the FA; EUFA; FIFA; the Prime Minister.
Have I missed anybody?

They may be just words and clearly actions matter, but strong words from the UEFA President.

If ever there is something unifying, something in which Boris Johnson is effectively called a good European, then this must be it!

“Grimsby have responded to the proposed launch of the super league by offering fans of the English clubs involved the chance to trade in their shirt for a Mariners one. The ‘shirt amnesty' is open to holders of any Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham or Chelsea shirts that are less than three seasons old. In return the club are offering a replica 2020-21 Grimsby shirt, with the unwanted Premier League kits to be donated to local youth groups and humanitarian projects in Africa."

Ted Hastings and Steve Arnott, Brent.

Kim, but can you trust Hastings or Arnott?!

Money money money. nothing else matters. Football is just the vehicle to deliver wealth to the club's owners. Some restructuring of the competitions will take place which delivers more wealth and control to the richest clubs. The Pl, Uefa, FIFA won't want to cut their nose off to spite their face so will have to concede some power and wealth to the ESL. This has been well planned and coordinated by the "breakaway" clubs. There'll be a lot of righteous indignation but change will happen. The strong will survive and the rich will get richer. That's global business whether we like it or not. Sport has long since ceased to be a consideration.

The only way for the apparently so called top 6 to redeem themselves is for Guardiola Klopp Tuchel Arteta and OGS to resign from their positions this week! That would be the only way to make them listen! I don't know much about Tuchels character but the other 4 are all down to earth as far as I am aware and each in some respect has risen massively through football ranks and the pyramid system of bottom to top. They are all very rich men and being unemployed will be of no harm to them at all. They are the 5 people now who have the power to stop the death of football!!!!!

I've read every post - I need a ruddy medal!! Some very well articulated posts and obviously we are all on the same page with regards to this utterly selfish money grabbing proposition.

I am convinced this will be sorted without any of the 6 leaving the Premier League. The truth is, despite many views stating the opposite, the six are an integral part of the financial success of our domestic competitions and we need this continuing success for the sake of BMD.

My fear is their continued presence will mean them playing their second 11 and saving their first 11 to concentrate on on Europe.

May I give a shout out to two, amongst many great posts, to Charles Brewer (392), and Kristian Boyce 394 - you are dead right Kristian

Stan (447), Stan is there anything moral about the way these breakaway clubs are acting?

Danny #358, a belter indeed. And regarding your comment at #378, that was my immediate thought when I saw the news. I don't like Mou but he does have a reputation as a principled man who says and does what he believes. Hope you feel better.

Tom #391, none of the Americans (except Dest) are considered superstars. All are around age 20. None would be leaving vast fortunes on the table by demanding transfers to non-SL clubs. And I think you very much underestimate the power of national pride versus the "almighty" dollar, not just in the US but places like Brazil. I repeat my prediction that Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Reyna and Steffen will be among those who will walk away from their clubs if FIFA imposes a WC ban. And I truly believe that players like Cristiano and Ederson will simply have no choice.

Charles #392, yes, and that's why I called out John Boon's opinion that Americans don't understand family-based, life-and-death fan support. College football inspires an almost religious devotion in the smaller cities all over America where it is based.

Now you're asking No spoilers from me, Brent.

As I said earlier Mike, I was bowled over by the dedication to the Texas Longhorns during my time in San Antonio. I experienced more passion towards the Longhorns than the Cowboys or (Houston) Texans.

As an aside, you'd think there'll be a bit of an extra edge in all the remaining matches played by the superior six this season - except when they play Everton, of course!

Who cares really?

The premier league was set up for more MONEY!

The top 4 in the premiership can be named year after year from 5 clubs! Football has become predictable in terms of success. Fans wanted billionaire owners! Why should owners care about fans? They have no affiliation with local communities.

Really are we surprised a super league has been agreed?

Football died years ago!! Greed is the winner!!

Danny,

Think John Henry is on record as saying his baseball team will always come first

"Outraged Liverpool fans to remove flags from the Kop in protest over European Super League"

Spion Kop 1906: We, along with other groups involved in flags, will be removing our flags from The Kop. We feel we can no longer give our support to a club which puts financial greed above integrity of the game.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/liverpool-engliverpool/story/4364612/outraged-liverpool-fans-to-remove-flags-from-the-kop-in-protest-over-european-super-league

Although saying things we probably mostly agree with, to hear the UEFA President describing the plans as "disgraceful & self-serving" smacks of hypocrisy really.

They don't like it. We don't like it. But this is the self-licking beast that keeps eating itself created back in the early 90s.

Exactly Danny (#464). This is just following some very well established precedents. Isn't it?

Meanwhile, the CL revamp has been agreed. Remember, this sets aside two places for teams that fail to qualify, but have a high "co-efficient". Essentially, this virtually guarantees that the Fat Cat Clubs will ALWAYS qualify for the CL. In a bad year for the RS, for example, their co-efficient will qualify them. Then, having qualified despite finishing eg 9th in the PL, they will be able to ADD to their co-efficient by playing in a CL that they shouldn't have been eligible for.

Too big to fail. It's bollocks. Part of the process of opposing the Super League should be also to oppose this existing power-grab by the money clubs. We need a complete reset.

Danny #459, and you were still only on the periphery in San Antonio. If you'd ever actually experienced Game Day in College Station -- or Tuscaloosa, Alabama or Athens, Georgia or Knoxville or Lincoln or Norman, Oklahoma -- you wouldn't have believed it.

Sky Sports reporting that the other 14 Prem clubs will meet tomorrow to discuss what to do about The Six.

Wonder whether Norwich will be invited.

Sky Sports also reporting that Oliver Dowden, Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, will stand up in Parliament in about 20 minutes to announce what actions your government will take against the Super League.

Mike,

It wouldn't be the first time the owners of that club have been at odds with its supporters. Interesting developments then.

Culture secretary addressing Parliament at 4-30 to outline its views and proposals.

Hope so Mike. We could have a side bar about Aarons!!

Michael @466, I've been thinking from yesterday, that it will be very interesting to see what the clubs who are left behind decide to do.

Maybe they will also form their own European league, possibly even without the aid of UEFA? keep domestic leagues, but have promotion and relegation every season into the European league, or wait and watch a lot of clubs eventually jump onto the coat-tails of this newly formed ESL, once they realise that the concept currently in place (no promotion or relegation) will only make it implode, unless they change it?

It's very early days, but with these big clubs basically saying that we can't live without them, then I just hope it's proven that we can🤞

"Sky Sports also reporting that Oliver Dowden, Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, will stand up in Parliament in about 20 minutes to announce what actions your government will take against the Super League"

Answer
No action will be taken.

I get that many people don't like Sky but the inception of the Premier League did not make what has been proposed inevitable. There is a difference between taking a peek over the edge of a precipice and deciding to to take a running jump over it! As others have already stated, the fundamental principles of the game were retained when the Premier League was introduced. This is something else entirely.
There is nothing wrong with sensible and fair maximising of revenues. People might rail at Sky but the broadcast of the games was something that could do with expanding and has been a boon whilst crowds haven't been able to attend. The step change here is that these clubs want to eat their cake and have it. They want to ride on the backs of their domestic leagues / competitions whilst having another guaranteed cash cow which cements their preeminence. They are removing the ‘sporting' element and trying to make elite football just ‘entertainment'.
Calling it ‘evolution' backs up the ‘it's natural and inevitable' suggestion but that is bullshit. This is ‘forced' evolution, wholly artificial and with little regard to the impact on the wider ‘ecosystem'. Even natural evolution can produce disasters (pandemics anyone?) but this smacks of mad scientists off the leash.
Sky could even lose out with this as there are supposed to be various streaming services keen to get involved who could usurp them. I imagine the Chinese would love to get involved.
So what is the driver? Well obviously it's greed, but whose? Simon Jordan puts the blame squarely on the players and their agents. He reckons many of these clubs are actually losing money and so are now desperately looking for a way of securing their future. Whichever way this goes, it is likely that some revision on players pay / agents fees is going to have to happen. Hopefully, this power grab will bring enough cohesion and cooperation that some sensible rules can be introduced that everyone can be made to follow.
Two non-footballing aspects that really bother me. First is the timing. Obviously that has to do with the UEFA announcement but it is odious that these clubs have thrown this handgrenade of uncertainty just when people are both seeing some light at the end of the tunnel after a very disconcerting year and settling in to enjoy the run-in of the season. The disregard for the alarm this plan has caused shows an almost inhuman absence of empathy.
The second thing is; have people forgotten about concerns for climate change and all the commitments to reducing carbon footprints? Is it really sensible to want to have even more international travel. To me that is another reason that substituting Juve for Burnley for your ‘bread and butter' away fixture should be deemed a non-starter.

It does not bother me one bit to be honest, the big six have been having their tummy's tickled for years.

If you look at the past few years, City have emerged as a top power, Chelsea did it a while back, so it shows that other clubs can also achieve it in the future.

The premier league will continue to be one of the best leagues around, we will still have the Champions league, the f a cup etc, these clubs will be replaced with the likes of Everton, Villa, Leeds and the likes, you may even get Celtic and Rangers, joining the Premier league, in a revamped league, who knows.

One thing I do know is this league will continue and to be honest, could even turn out to be a very wide open league, for the first few seasons, but it will not fade out, because the money grabbers have jumped ship.

The league will grow again and thrive.

All I ask of them, is to take var with them, and ensure they are not allowed to take part in our league, if they go ahead.

Only those teams that jumped ship, will live to regret their decision.

Bayern Munich are no mugs, they know which side of the bread, their bread is buttered on.

Thomas #473, why not?

FYI the investment community apparently loves the Super League. Every publicly traded club among the 12 is up sharply on their stock exchanges today. On a down day for Wall Street, Manchester United is up 9.4% on the NYSE.

Spurs, they haven't won a league in 60 years. Clubs like us & Villa are far bigger than Chelsea. Arsenal haven't qualified for Europe for 3 years. What qualifies you for this? Not that I would want to belong.

You have answered your own question Mike

Very good Si! Totally agree.

There ain't half some hypocrisy flying about though. It has been reported that Özil has criticised the Super League proposal - says the player who sat out his obscene wage contract.

I've bashed Sky over the years Si. I was suspicious of the Premier League concept and the Champions League (it's not - the name irritates) has always bugged me.

But you make valid points and I'm not against progression, re-structuring or re-organising. If you stand still, you walk backwards as they say and playing Devil's advocate, the revolution of broadcasting football has brought benefits and made it accessible to many who couldn't access it previously. Making the beautiful game available to many should always be seen as a positive.

The key thing for me here is the protectionism of the so called elite being taken to another level. Beyond that of the Champions League, which itself affords a degree of that.

If you remove the possibility of relegation, it's a closed shop. You remove the competitiveness. Show case games that will pretty much be like those dreadful pre-season tournaments set up for the cameras and tourist fans. Competitive sport without competition, where there may still be reward for success but no consequence for failure, becomes a spectacle, not competitive sport.

Can I see this ESL going through? I doubt it will. For a start UEFA are adamant that players involved will be banned from playing for their country. So if the ESL does commence, the only way out for players with serious international aspirations will be to run their contract down. Players will not want to sign for any of the ESL clubs, for fear of jeopardizing their own international aspirations. Highly unlikely, but ESL clubs could be left with no players, or all "Over the hill" players.
So what if it does go ahead, and these six clubs are to remain in the premier league? What kind of teams will they be fielding? And, here's the biggie for me, what if they play a weakened team in the premier league all season, and end up being relegated?

It's being reported that the remaining premier league clubs are demanding immediate sanctions against the six clubs, and even want suspensions imposed from the current season. The remaining fourteen clubs are to meet with the premier league tomorrow, so let's hope their sanction requests are granted.

And one more thing, there will be fifteen clubs guaranteed the safety of avoiding relegation, while there will be five clubs invited to participate. Is this for one season only, and what happens if their own national league won't let any of these five clubs back in to their league?

It's interesting isn't it. They envisioned 15 permanent members, but PSG, Bayern and Dortmund rejected them. Now they are courting clubs like Ajax. The moment has probably passed though when other major clubs will sign up, given intense pressure from UEFA, governments and their leagues. It is much harder to manoeuvre when the cat is out the bag and the force of reaction will make other clubs think twice. Equally, the proposal for 5 clubs to qualify from their domestic leagues is already dead as the leagues will not cooperate.

Is this simply good to become a permanent 12 club tournament where they simply play each other every season for the next 20+ years? TV revenue for that proposition will collapse quickly. I would also assume that the Premier League and remaining 14 clubs can vote to expel them or simply set up a new league which they are not invited to join.

The 6 premier league clubs - the only thing big about them are the size of their debts - may come to regret this.

I just logged on and haven't been paying attention to anything footy.

Is this actually green-lighted??? Is it a go?

If so, throw the English Clubs out of the league. The law should be they need to re-apply for membership to the FA at League level.

You leave, you're out. If you're out, you need to climb the pyramid again.

This is sickening. I think it will fail in the long run. Fuck these clubs.

I don't want it to happen, but it's inevitable. When you think all those years ago, the Champions League was opened to most teams who weren't Champions in their domestic leagues. Many winners of the CL, were not reigning PL champions (such as Liverpool twice).

The big games (Real Madrid et al) won't be one offs, they will be all the time, making it just another match. May aswell just relocate all them in Sunny Spain and have done with it.

This all however may make recruiting the best quality we can, such as James, Lukaku standard players for Everton even harder than it was, and I do still want to see such talent in a Everton shirt.

Brian (475), you are missing a major point. The 12 (to be 15) ‘founders' haven't excluded themselves from anything.
They still want to be included / benefit from the domestic competitions, but they want an additional protected in perpetuity elite competition with a whacking great revenue stream that pisses on the ambitions of pretty much everyone else.
The (very small) carrot is a discretionary 5 places on offer each season to make it seem like others can earn a place at the trough.
They will only be excluded if that is the sanction that UEFA and the various FAs agree on. The bastards are gambling that their box office draw will be enough for everyone to cave to their wishes rather than taking a financial (and status?) hit in the competitions they control.

Banning players from the greedy clubs mean Hibbo and Ossie might now have a chance of playing for England. Justice at last!!

Jamie (483), no it's not green lighted. It's widely unpopular and could actually wake a few people up to the fact that real reform is required.

Joe (484), it's not inevitable. Man up.

The reset I mentioned earlier Si.

Although that's the romantic optimist in me. In reality there'll be a negotiated fudge.

The monies involved wipe out the monstrous debts of the twattish twelve as soon as they sign it is a no brainer financially.

They know the opportunity to walk back into their domestic leagues will remain even in the event of some token ban as football authorities are dull as dishwater and spineless.

The clubs (undoubtedly led by the Americans at Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal) have wangled a win, win situation. Should it go tits up they come back debt free if it works they won't give a backward glance.

They've played a blinder.

The Fiver is referring to the new European Super League by the initials €$L.

Love it.

Barry -

If those Yank owners are behind this, on behalf of an entire nation I apologize.

Mike Gaynes -

You hadn't been on the Live Forum for a bit. You had me worried.

Nice to “see” you.

Live forum open for discussion.

Jamie,

No need for apologies mate.

Re the yank owners.Something like this has been thier intention since the day they bought the clubs.

Ah, Jamie... you conservatives. Always apologizing for America.

Just kidding.

To be clear, the three American ownership groups are enthusiastic participants in the €$L, but they're not "behind" it -- the originators are Perez at Real Madrid and Agnelli at Juventus.

There was a bit of Yank-bashing here last night behind the theory that this is all an American conspiracy, but I defended the flag as best I could.

Thanks for your concern about my absence, but all's well -- just busy packing up the house for a move north and dealing with some personal grief. Not a fun time, but I'm fine.

You reckon the yank owners were taken by surprise when Perez and Agnelli mentioned it Mke?

Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted

While it is true if a Tory was on fire I wouldn't cross the road to piss on them, the fact that Tracy Crouch MP has been chosen to head up the announced fan review of football is a good sign. While Sports Minister she stood up to the Betting lobby

Looking on the bright side, looking lower down the league "pyramid", if this goes ahead it could result in 6 new clubs joing the football league from the conferences or whatever it is now.

Mike. You and your flag lol. If people are blaming those damn Yanks it's some individuals who happen to be American. They don't represent your country.
Nobody's dissin' yo flag bro!

The Europeans are at fault Mike, the Americans just sniff a business opportunity!!

Perez and Real Madrid, who arguably have been previously bailed out with the Spanish Royal purse are most definitely the driving force behind this. He will be the self-appointed el Presidente it seems.

Larry, yes. I would also keep my piss to myself but as you say, Crouch is a good choice. (No relation I assume!).

Not at all, Thomas #496, and I'm sure Agnelli and Perez wouldn't have moved forward without their endorsement.

I just get irritated that the equally enthusiastic British, Russian, Italian, Arab, Spanish and Chinese ownership groups of the other €$L clubs haven't even been mentioned in the 500 posts here, but there have been dozens of slams at the Yanks. Seems a bit too convenient for me.

Gents, can we be more inclusive here? Americans, not Yanks. You are discounting a vast swathe of the American population and it's not 1864!!

And then we have Texans!!

Mike,

They are all equally in it together.
All got the same culpability

Mike, I suspect the focus on the Yanks is just because our geographically-nearest foes are owned by Yanks.

The defeatist attitude of people who think that it is inevitable that a "Super League" in the proposed format will go ahead, is the attitude these greedy bastards want us to take.

Any competition in which a place is guaranteed and not earned on sporting merit is not a competition. If UEFA and the Premier League stick to their guns and impose bans on any of these breakaway clubs and their players, my gut feeling is that they will back down.

Larry@498, I would not piss on them, if they were on the same side of the road, let alone cross the road to do so.

Some soft Cnut on the news saying playing the likes of Slavia Prague is beneath Arsenal. Completely misses the irony that Arsenal played Slavia Prague because they were only good enough to qualify for Europa League comp.

I really wish they wouldn't broadcast such obvious idiocy.

Had a 19 year old female ‘student' talking about being able to attend the Leicester v Southampton semi-final on the news yesterday state that her age group were ‘less likely to catch' the corona virus. No!!!! You can still catch it and pass it around, you are just less likely to suffer badly with it.

I think people are looking at the Americans, because of the concept Mike, and for once I'd disagree with Brent, because it's obvious that most Liverpudlians, don't seem to want this league to happen.

They are being kind, they are prepared to keep five places open for new teams, I just hope the respective leagues are not so kind, and tell them once they've locked the door on the way out, just put the keys straight in the letterbox.

My only concern is Bramley Moore, but tomorrow should hopefully bring more news, concerning the reaction from the rest of the teams in EPL, and beyond, and I just hope they come out the meeting singing that old Will Young song!!

Tony,

The ‘clean 14' PL teams response tomorrow will be instructive I think. I hope none of them is on a promise!

This disgraceful plan is surely dead before arrival. What we are seeing is not so much a clash of nationalities, more a clash of cultures symptomised by the desire of some powerful ‘franchise' owners to remove the risk of relegation versus the desire of all fans to retain the hope, no matter how faint, of their club rising to the top.

This time the owners may find they have overestimated their powers insofar as European football is concerned. There may however be a longer term hidden agenda of creating a climate whereby the ‘super twelve' link up with newly created big ‘franchises' in the USA and Asia to create a World Club League for a global television audience.

None of this is inevitable providing the general public, the other clubs and the game's governing bodies oppose it with everything at their disposal. Ostracising the ‘super twelve' would be a reasonable start.

I would tell them to shove those 5 spaces being kept open, do not allow them to continue playing in the Premier league, should they move to the super league, and like Tony says about putting the keys through the letter box.

Bramley Moore will be fine, the Premier league, Champs league etc will still continue.

If you look at Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Derby County, and the likes, they were once top of their game, apart from Leeds who have recently returned, all those teams were replaced by other clubs, namely City and Chelsea, city and Chelsea I know were up and down, until recent money investment, put them among the elite.

The same will happen again, if those clubs uproot and leave.

The premier league, will survive, without those clubs.

Everton need to grasp this opportunity to distance themselves as much as possible from the RS and what they stand for. We are the club of the city who cares about the people from the city, it's communities and our wider fan base. We need to push the message that our fans count and we embrace the city and it's heritage. We need to make everyone aware that we do things differently - support this club and you are part of a family. We've stood by and watched the RS position themselves as representing the city for too long - let's use this to reclaim what used to be ours

I would love it if in an hour and a half the referee blows the whistle to start the leeds vs rs game and the leeds players just walk off.
"No sorry we don't recognize you as part of our league now fuck off".
Now that would make a nice statement.

A Dutch friend tells me that Ajax have declined citing their commitment to the BeNeLiga, which is proposed to commence in 2025 when the current TV deals for Belgium and the Netherlands expire. Also heard a report on the radio saying that Porto and Benfica have declined. At this rate I fully expect the final three permanent members to be Marine, Solihull Moors and Dulwich Hamlet!

I think that it is worth bearing in mind that only 15% of the television audience for the EPL and Champions League comes from Europe, the remaining 85% come from Asia, the Middle East and Africa. The people watching there really couldn't care less about the structure of the leagues they are watching, they just want to watch the biggest teams playing each other and that is what the €$L are banking on.

Interestingly a few years ago I did some work in the Kenyan and Tanzanian townships, we wrote to all EPL and Championship clubs asking for donations of shirts. The Championship clubs were all phenomenally generous. Man Utd donated one shirt, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and RS sent nothing. To be fair City were generous as were Everton I am pleased to say.

Might be, Tony #510, but the oft-repeated statement that this Super League is an "American-style" concept is clearly false IMO.

American pro sports leagues are twice the size of the proposed SL. They don't invite teams in and out every year, as the SL will. They have player drafts to equalize talent (worst teams pick first), which the SL obviously will not. They have complex salary cap structures, which the SL obviously won't. And North American sports teams are franchises of their leagues and almost all locally owned -- no Russian oligarchs, Chinese corporations or Persian Gulf governments own US clubs. The only similarity with the Super League is the absence of a promotion/relegation model.

John #512, I would guess otherwise. I think these 12 clubs have already expended too much money, time and prestige on this idea to back out based on public condemnation.

Cant quite come to terms with how the fall out will look.

The people on this thread are not helping.

Some really fantastic posts giving an insight into repercussions I didnt even consider.

No ale in the house to drink while this thread unfolds, but Just noticed a case of her favourite SA pinotage in the cupboard

Sorry Girl

Kaveh Solhekol
@SkyKaveh
·
Sky sports

Board member at one of English clubs joining Super League: "This isn't a civil war, it's a nuclear war. To be honest though the owners are not that worried about bad PR, they were expecting it. Their job is to maximise profits. The wider good of the game is a secondary concern

Dave@456: I don't know, but I'm not interested in listening to cheap moralising from pundits and others who actively contribute to the bias, cheating and corruption associated with the vast sums of money in elite football. I'm leaving it at that.

Liverpool fans protesting the Super League at Elland Road right now.

I can't claim to have any sort of legal background, but surely the Government, Football league and the Premier League will lodge some sort of sanctions/legal challenges to this entire sorry endeavour won't they?

The whole thing lacks any element of competition, where's the carrot? I can't get my head round the concept of this. Surely as a spectacle it'll be even duller than the already tedious Champions league? There's a reason they're giving it a revamp.

Club owners don't care about local communities, and couldn't care less about lower division football - as an Evertonian I do care about the lower league clubs as I suspect many of you all do as well. It'd be like cutting the roots off a tree, a house of cards.

First VAR now this, the game we grew up with is well & truly dead & gone.

I do not think it is the American owners who are to blame it is the financial backing from American Financial Institution's who are to blame, and they must believe that they will benefit more from this than the clubs. There will already be media outlets contacted that all games will be only on pay per view. No one would attempt anything like this without financial gain, and that is all that it is, pure greed.
The English league was built on the back of supporters, the vast majority who were working people, and you will soon see an objection from the majority of supporters clubs including the 6 who want to move.
If the Football Association are prepared to make a strong stance against this, one of the first statements will be to inform the 6 teams from the premier league that their conduct is against the F.A. rules and regulations, and at least give them a large fine and a threat of loss of points.
I believe that these 6 premier league clubs are unaware of the power of the F.A, that has survived for 100yrs, in making this decision and may find out to their shame, that the grass is not greener on the other side.

James, you're not seriously equating the Super League with VAR???

Just saw the minister say in the House of Commons that this will not be allowed to happen under any circumstanced. If PL do not act the government will. Now, I wouldn't trust them but this is a sure fire vote winner.

Exactly why they made the statement Andy

Really sorry, just catching up after work and time with the fam. apologies if repeating stuff. It's been coming for ages so why the surprise? SkY and the pundits are talking about 'greed' like its a new concept suddenly thrust upon 'football', and which they have been morally distant from through their careers, wankers. Kick all the super league clubs out out of domestic and international competitions and let them fuck off and gorge themselves to death with cash. Severe all ties and let the newly formed AFC Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea etc, rejuvinate themselves in the lowest rungs of the pyramid.
Man U fans have a nice head start and will be pleased with the opportunity to forge a new superpower. AFC Salford Utd.

Mike - only in the sense that it's killing the game we all grew up with and fell in unrequited love with

You know better than that Andy. A Tory government wresting a money from the greedy ?

Past present and future would need to be turned on its head

Oh poor Darren, you know even less about politics, history and economics than you do about football.

I missed the point entirely, I thought they were going off to form their own league and leaving the EPL! It's only a midweek cup it turns out sorry. Good riddance to them especially without the French and Germans they will be a total irrelevancy.

Bill #523, yes, the financial backer is JP Morgan, an American bank, but these days all major banks are global, and the key is who they are doing business with, not where they are geographically.

Real Madrid is spending €575 million to rebuild the Bernabeu. The major financing is coming from... drum roll, please... JP Morgan.

When Agnelli at Juventus first launched his publicity campaign for this idea, over a year ago, he also hired Giovanni Reggiori directly from JP Morgan, where he was a leveraged finance analyst specializing in sport financing transactions.

Of course, JP Morgan is also the chief financier of our BMD project.

Jamie 491

As others have said no need to apologise.

What may be misunderstood by the Americans involved is their actions are an attack on the very foundations of the game. Universally the game evolved from local areas represented by sporting heroes with excitement, joy and sadness provided in equal measure. Football is, and always will be, THE working mans game devotion passed on from father or mother to son or daughter as rites of passage.

Often equated to religion the importance of history, location and parochial pride can never be understated. The idea of playing some games away from hallowed turf or renaming and moving the club hundreds of miles away for financial gain as per the US is anathema to europeans.

Generally speaking it's a cultural thing

Mike Gaynes @ 240

All good points.

And that's the frightening thing about this whole stab in the back by these clubs, they're confident they're going to get what they want, they'll keep their players and remain in the prem with a few points deducted most probably.

I doubt the prem heirachy are any less the greedy whores than these clubs, they won't want to kill the cash cow and so we'll have 7 clubs earning a fortune in the platinum league next season and sitll allowed to slum it with us in the prem.

The prem will do whatever it takes to save the prem and that means the unthinkable, we'll have to play against those bastards next season.

The important thing is that these clubs are not allowed to compete in their domestic leagues. I doubt the threat of a ban from the UEFA competitions will have much effect since they have set up a like for like replacement.

We are now approaching a similar setup to the NFL with franchise football and conference leagues with the same staple clubs in each.

The only problem is is that its for a select few members only.

Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona are skint and COVID has hit them hard. This breakaway is all about self protection and self preservation for a select few elite clubs. Whereas us commoners of the so called "lesser" teams will juts have to lump it.

As for Spurs lol when did they fucking last win anything???

Mike
Yes banks are global but isn't their head office in the States where the committee headed by the Chairman or Chairperson and C,E.O have to agree on all major commitments to stay on the side of their shareholders. The agreement as I read is for a payment of 3.5 billion and I believe that the head office in the states were well aware of what was going on and would have to give their approval.

I can't help feeling that if the fans of the six British clubs are as annoyed as they claim, they do actually have the power to stop the whole thing now by asserting they will never allow an SPL game on their grounds to continue by the use of pitch invasions and any other appropriate diversionary tactic. Bang goes the TV money in an instant followed by a grovelling collapse.

You enjoy that grape Darren. It's a good one. Just be sure to replace it.

So many people on here ready to ditch the 6 renegade clubs despite their own supporters raising hell about the prospect of the ESL put up by their respective owners.

For me I stand with the supporters of the 6 clubs and I pray at tomorrow's meeting a sensible conclusion is reached for the benefit of all.

Steve Parish indicated in tonight's interview on Sky that is the attitude with which he will be going into tomorrow's meeting.

Let's not be selfish here - there are genuine supporters of the 6 clubs hurting just as much - if not far more - than the rest of us supporting the remaining 14.

Bill #537, of course. They definitely see major profit potential in the proposal.

I'm just saying the decision had nothing to do with where that home office is located.

"I do not believe the Super League will solve the financial problems of European clubs that have arisen as result of the coronavirus pandemic. Rather, all clubs in Europe should work in solidarity to ensure that the cost structure, especially players' salaries and agents' fees, are brought in line with revenues, to make all of European football more rational."

Karl Heinz Rumenigge speaking on behalf of Bayern Munich.

Bayern and Germany leading the rationality as English, Spanish and Italian clubs seek to capitalise and look after themselves.

Would be good to see them all docked 50 points for bringing the game into disrepute, relegation dogfight would be interesting and none of them in Europe next season after it falls apart.
I feel sorry for the fans of all clubs, it's clear practically nobody wants this.

Danny #542, similar applause for Dortmund, PSG and Porto.

Stephen@516, those statistics are very revealing mate. 85% of the Champions league television audience comes from outside Europe, so that's the market they are looking towards, with very little thought towards the match going fan.

It's a great short-term policy, but it appears to lack the very substance that made this sport so popular in the first place imo, but the wind of change is here now, even if their initial audacity, is hopefully dealt, with the unadulterated contempt it deserves.

Mike G, you explain a lot about American sport, but to us English, the concept of no promotion or relegation, does seem to only exist in your great sporting nation, with the contradiction being for so many, that only the chosen few, have now got a chance of “chasing the dream”, which is definitely not an American concept!

Si Cooper 487, why are you telling me to "Man Up" just for saying it's inevitable? It is. Lyndon states the same, so I assume you are going to say the same to him.

Anyone know why Bayern Munich not joining the list of Vile clubs?

If the 6 bugger off that will leave us as the only Premier club in the NW. Seems to me we'll need a much bigger capacity than 53,000!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/19/revealed-unpublished-super-league-document-justifying-breakaway

I've said it before, but they have no interest in the traditional match going fan.

They just need to broadcast their product globally and fill stadiums, wherever they may be. They don't care much for it being their own home.

Joe @ 546
I believe Bundesliga clubs are 50% plus 1 share owned by fans. So they have a slim majority for voting. Hence the very low ticket pricing etc. Seems the way toward to me

I read that earlier Thomas. Cynicism encapsulated

By the way I see uefa have past the motion to let 2 teams who don't qualify with the highest Co efficient results for the previous 5 seasons still qualify. What a joke.

Big Sam will be loving this maybe West Brom will be staying up after all hahaha

Mike (532) - This is not a barbed question - but as a former journalist you will probably know the answer. Wasn't JP Morgan one of the institutions baled out by the federal government after the Fanny May, Freddy Mac debacle a few years back?

If so, where the hell have they got the money form to fund this?

It would be like Lloyds Bank Plc offering to bankroll the EPL.

Stan its so frustrating I could take or leave going to the game again.
These clubs have crippled Everton for years.

Man U took Rooney Fellaini and Lukaku from us. Goals galore. That wouldn't have happened before the premiership and people are waking up over this false flag operation.

Its absurd and shows how much sky sports has brainwashed people into thinking this is possible.

I wouldn't be suprised if UEFA already know the outcome which will be a bigger champions league and more money for these vultures.

As you correctly stated, nothing is new here. The CL was basically created to solve Madrid debt problems because they didnt qualify one year.

They throw these threats out year after year and get more and more perks.

Madrid and Barca gets the lions share of la liga tv money which leads to all the best kids being there and every top opposition player goes there etc etc and thats what Liverpool and United want.

3 years back we were ecstatic with Steve Walsh buying a crop of relegation battlers after losing Stones then Lukaku the year later.

We have had to rebuild, rebuild, rebuild while banks saved Liverpool and with United they got the transfer rules their way.

Now they have a more expensive keeper and Centre half than Man City who are richer.

The chances of us increasing our wage bill to attract enough real players has decreased while all this has gone on.

Bill (547) Don't forget Burnley.

These clubs have crippled Everton for years, and United wouldn't have took Rooney, Fellaini and Lukaku, before the premier league began Paul A? Or maybe if Bill Kenwright, had relinquished his train set a bit earlier maybe!

Hail Kenwright! I'm sure we would have been part of this only for “Our Saviour” how ironic can you get!!

Are we looking forward to 2025?

FSG have failed in their attempt to increase the capacity to 75,000. The corporate clients are not happy with the rail service to Lime Street nor the flights into LJL. With the newly build Olympic Stadium in Paris, John Henry announces that with no ESL team in the country, they are moving to the French capital and will henceforth be known as Paris Kopites FC and he has signed a 10 year lease agreement for the stadium.

Likely scenario? Yes or No?
Happy if it happened? Yes or No?

Business Is Business and Only The Strong Survive,

unless you get into into serous debt and / or your New Stadium is closed and expected revenue streams closed off. Then you have the possibility of having to sell off your better players to relieve the debt and have to deal with the fall off in performance and not qualifying for elite European Competitions. The threat of your elite footballers being injured by idiot goalkeepers and threatening your top 4 finish.

Then along comes an idea, whispering in your ear - Billions, Billions I have for you - just betray your roots, your fans and follow me. I guarantee you millions / billions every year and no more debt. Your investment is totally risk free as you will no longer face the threat of relegation you see. As for the rest fuck em, they are dragging down your profits / share price. Putting at risk the investment you've made. You know who I mean - Leicester and others like them. You can make the rules too.

But what about the fans - treat them as you always do. Like mushrooms. I can get you millions of fans from all over the World. TV / Streaming Companies paying billions a season, to share with like minded people. Its a dead cert, you Can't lose. So Come along now there's no time to wait. The sooner we start the quicker the money pours in !!!

Please Mr Moshiri have no dealings with this.

Mike Gayne ( Multiple posts, most of them in defence of the USA). I had agreed with myself NOT to post any more on the particular topic but I am weak and usually give in to basic urges. Some obversations in numerical order.

1. You are a fine Evertonian.

2.You are a loyal American I admire loyalty.

3. You are incredibly persistent as observed by you many posts I admire your persistence.

4. I had suggested that the forefront of this movement regarding the "Despictable Six" was lead by Greedy Americans. I still feel exactly the same way but I should have added that they were supported by equally greedy Russians, Saudis, Chinese, and ANY other GREEDY SOB from anywhere else on mother earth.

5. Please do not ever equate the fervor, support and loyalty of "College Football"fans with the fanatical dedication, madness,sheer lunacy and insanity of "soccer" fans around the world. AND it does not matter what team they follow.

6. My first love is my family but my own wife of 54 years regularly tells me that I love "EVERTON" more than her. She was not amused when I once jokingly said I loved Tranmere Rovers more than I was unable to complete the punchline while lying on the kitchen floor

7.Back to common sense, and Mike you pride yourself with such an attribute, but you just CANNOT be a football fan if you have common sense.I have followed my beloved Blues for eons home and away before emigrating to Canada. To some even that move defied logic. On away games I have lost my shirt shoes and other clothing, usually due to imbibing too much of the good stuff. At fifteen I once rode to Burnley and back about 130 miles. on my sisters bike. I was stopped seven times by the police because I had no lights.It got even worse when I got home because my sister had phoned the police to report a stolen bike.

8. All this really to try to illustrate the compulsive madness of being a "football " fan from Merseyside, and one who thinks that the DESPICABLE SIX should be banned forever.

9.The RS (Despicable Red) are beating Leeds 1-0 and this does NOT help my biased irrational logic. Enough for now unles you mount one more defence. BUT remember you are dealing with an 81 year old lunatic Evertonian who has two VERY big sons. AND the border will not be closed forever. Keep Smiling

By the way if all their results are expunged for this season, were would we be ? League position wise.

Stan (520) well Stan you won't have to listen to all those phoney pundits when you watch your local non league team in the future, what is the name of the club you will be following?

I hate Liverpool as much as anyone, but that Leeds goal is for you John Boon, mate. Fuckin gerrrinnn!

Tony no mate that makes no sense at all when Moshiri sold Lukaku. And long before Kenwright was a problem we had Dr David Marsh as Chairman and Peter Johnson was a problem.

No love or hate for any owner or chairman makes a difference Tony. We didn't grasp the marketing side of what the premiership offered and got left behind long before Kenwrights tenure.

Thanks Tony(563). I was a little tired after posting my latest rant.(560) I was so busy writing that I did not know the final score. GREAT !!! Always is when "They" lose.

Thanks Tony(563). I was a little tired after posting my latest rant.(560) I was so busy writing that I did not know the final score. GREAT !!! Always is when "They" lose.

Thanks Tony(563). I was a little tired after posting my latest rant.(560) I was so busy writing that I did not know the final score. GREAT !!! Always is when "They" lose.

Loads of things don't make much sense Paul A, especially me hailing Kenwright.

No John they got a point, but it's better than the “greedy bastards” getting all three!

Just watching Neville talk about the greedy league and he really is talking from the heart but also talking sense. Just one point he raises - why would City back this when, given their owners, they don't need the money, and those owners are looking to maximise their public image. He thinks they will be first to fold.

The possibility of a super league should be a wake up call for Everton fc who have been in a malaise since 1987 when Everton last won a league trophy, that's 34 years ago But the last piece of silverware Everton have won was the FA cup and that was in 1995 over a quarter of century ago. No wonder Everton are not being invited to the party, while this season's football has been far from good.

Now it's getting complicated, thanks for that Brent. This may be a group forced together by the pandemic but do not have the cohesion to go as hard as the initial rhetoric would imply. That may be why we're hearing so much cheap talk right out of the gate with a shock disclosure.

Dale, I might misunderstand you. Is the ref to "cheap "talk" a criticism of the breakaway owners? or those criticising them?

Sky sports milking it and Neville buying himself followers and likes with his Martin Luther king speeches and they all know its going nowhere.

Hes loved the chance to repeatedly say Klopp has gone against his owners too and Carragher seen right through it and defended Klopp v the Owners.

Neville is a snakey self obsessed hooter with a head and body.

Carragher says the Premier League is better than the old Division 1 and the Champions League is better than the old European Cup...

Really, you Sky lackey... Hheaven help us that Carragher and Neville are the moral majority!

Paul, I actually think Neville is talking sense. We're all against this super league.

And his passion is welcome. We want passion in all quarters to defeat this.

He's also said he hopes Ole criticises this.

I don't really care if he's milking it. He's useful.

Brent he knows full well it can't happen mate. They should have been this vocal when the Champions league made the divide what it is today.

Any changes that will come won't benefit us put it that way.

As much as I would like to see the RS disappear from the premier league altogether, this super league proposal will ultimately fall flat on its face. Klopp has said tonight he is totally against it, as has James Milner. Klopp has just in the last few minutes said "he will sort it". By that it sounds like he will speak to the owners of Liverpool FC and force them to do a U turn.

Paul, if Neville knows full well this won't happen, then I'm not sure why he's being so vitriolic in his opposition as I'm also not sure what he's got to gain from that. I've never seen him so apoplectic.

As you say, though, any changes won't benefit us.

Has anyone seen the Duncan Ferguson video he tweeted, for some kid slacking off at school, well worth a watch.

If anyone has the techno please post it on here to lighten the mood.

John ~556

Ooops! How remiss of me and they're my third team, too. (My second team is anyone who happens to be playing the RS).

From the news today I've seen this circus franchise is contracted for an initial 23 years, and looks on the business franchise, like the MSL model, but how strange none of the UK clubs from what I've seen have no responded, to their condemnations, via their boards.

Seems like NDAs signed and agreed by the traitor clubs.

Let's hope the UK government, UEFA and FIFA take the required action this week and kick them out of their respective leagues and a life time ban and nul their remaining fixtures and annul their EPL positions.

No mercy, as a proper example must be made to show the true game can survive and progress with out their dirty self centred deals..

This will finally put the independent match day badge sellers etc at the traitor clubs out of business and at the higher scale could make many more people redundant.

The furlough club really has shown its colours.

Old Nick may be riding out of town soon.. Let's hope so.

Hugh #554, they were indeed. Business has been very good to the big banks since then.

John #560, you're always one of my favorite lunatics here.

Mike (583). you have forced me to prove my weakness one more time. I PROMISE this is the last on this particular article, but there are a few more new ones that have now cropped up. Just glad whenever I can make an Evertonian smile and a red Liverpudlian cry and I am delighted that we have fans from other countries,particularly from the US. We used to cross the border on a regular basis but that is impossible right now.

TW allows for so many divergent points of view and that sensibly allows Evertonians to agree to disagree. I usually have a smile on my face when I post, and this has been the case in my recent communications with you. I must say I am delighted that you have "basically" agreed that I am right about everything. I often amaze myself that I know so much, but my humility just does not allow me to boast.

On a final note I expect to be made a Saint after I expire. However miracles are required for that to happen. Easy I will pray for Everton to win the Prem next season. AND I will have the "Despicable Six "play in their own little league for all eternity.

Joe McMahon (546), of course my ‘Man up' appeal was directed to anyone who is simply saying ‘its inevitable'.

You cite Lyndon however whose piece included
“Of course, there is a strong possibility that this is just a high-stakes game of poker, a brass-necked bluff designed to draw an unpalatable compromise from Europe's governing body that not only hands control of the Champions League's commercial revenue in the hands of these clubs but probably guarantees them entry on an annual basis.

If it isn't, and the nuclear option is chosen so that these clubs are indeed expelled, the success of what is left behind by formation of The Super League would depend to a significant degree on “The Super Greed” dying on its avaricious arse, as many predict it could.”

I read that as Lyndon believing the power grab itself was inevitable but that the actual outcome is in the balance. Your post, at 484, I read as completely defeatist and throwing the towel in.

If this "Super League" goes ahead then most of the games will be played on the Continent. So, should these "Big 6" be kicked out of the Premier League and English/British football altogether could the government then cancel and refuse work permits for players at these clubs who need them and will visiting clubs players require entry visas into Britain?

Didn't you just know Brexit might have an upside.
Go get 'em, Boris!

The EPL and 14 clubs will meet today to discuss the legal basis for 3 option is response:

1) Expel the 6 clubs.
2) Refuse to play them if they cannot be expelled.
3) Impose a points deduction each season for playing in an unsanctioned tournament.

They will also try to drive a wedge between the 6 clubs. Undoubtedly, Liverpool are the most vulnerable to compromise. Two days in and not a single statement that originated from the club, apart from a half-hearted and apologetic email to staff from their CEO saying they would have been left behind if they hadn't joined from the onset.

Say what you like about Klopp, but he is principled individual and spoke out. Compare that to the chicken shit performance from Tuchel at his press conference. You get the true measure of the person in tough times.

Si (585), you read me correctly. The outcome is very much in the balance, especially if there is united opposition

I also thought Neville was being genuine, especially when he called the current owners of Manchester United, scavengers.

They don't even look after old Trafford he said, there is rust in the metal, which is not even painted, and this instinctively made me think about “our saviour”

It's a sad world, the lower clubs are struggling like mad, and you have players like Pogba, who turns up once every few weeks, demanding half a million quid a week, so hopefully we take one thing straight out of American sport, and introduce a salary cap, instead of having to hear the shite coming out of the Real Madrid chairman's mouth, about this being a move to save football

Dave@562: I live up in Stonehaven, near Aberdeen, and watch various local sides when I have the time. I have gradually, over the last few years, watched less and less elite football, and reached the point of watching only Everton games. And now, I watch fewer of those.

The last time I watched an elite non-Everton game with the intention of watching the whole game, was the France v Croatia world cup final. But France scored through cheating, from a free kick after Griezmann dived. At that point I switched it off, and haven't attempted to watch a non-Everton game since. I'd had enough of the bias, cheating and corruption in the game.

It may end up with me not watching even Everton.

You can do it Dave, all you have to do is walk away. It's easy.

BBC website..."A YouGov poll of 1,730 football fans found 79% opposed the idea of a Super LeagueLooking on the bright side, looking lower down the league "pyramid", if this goes ahead it could result in 6 new clubs joing the football league from the conferences or whatever it is now."

A small poll but I am utterly astonished. That means that 21% of those polled did not oppose it.

Who are they?

Try as I might, even leaving aside the despicable nature of this proposal, I simply don't understand how this proposed league would fit into the calendar alongside existing fixture commitments. Managers are already complaining about fixture congestion. Would this involve two squads per club in which case even more of the best players being coralled by the "biggest" clubs? Or players being flogged to death by having to play twice a week on a permanent basis? Where would it leave the FA Cup, League Cup? Could someone attempt to explain it to me please?

Stan (590) I understand Stan, nice story and loads of us despair at the way the game has deteriorated into the cheating mess it is.no doubt about that. Peter Mills, who you will know from ToffeeWeb, gets a lot more enjoyment, I think, from watching Marine his local non league team.

I used to watch Waterloo Dock and loved the fight, battle, endeavour and no little skill from their games, I understand the attraction of going to see these games.

Stan you might agree it is a lot harder to walk away from watching Everton, if I ever thought about it, than it is for you, living where you do. At the present time, and I don't see it improving, it would be a lot easier to walk away from watching the Blues than at any time previously, but Stan after watching them nearly every week, to the last few years every other week it will be impossible not to go and watch Everton, good, bad or indifferent.

Stan Everton are not a religion but they come quite close to one for thousands of fans who follow them, it's easy following a successful team, we have proved, especially over the last thirty years or so, we are there for them no matter what they serve up, once upon a time the players knew and appreciated that, now you know which players care for the fans and the club.

Finally, thanks for your reply Stan, I don't have to tell you how it is, to live in Liverpool and support The Blues, you did it for a long time and it will never leave you, best wishes Stan, oh and Stan, never cast a clout ‘til May is out, especially in Aberdeen, it gets very cold up there!!

Anyone not seen it yet, log onto sky sports and read the headline article. We really are The People's Club.

Great statement by the club. The first, if I'm not mistaken, to publicly speak out and issue a condemning statement.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/12280961/everton-call-for-european-super-league-proposals-to-be-withdrawn-and-slam-big-sixs-preposterous-arrogance

There are rumours that Chelsea and Man City are having second thoughts. It will only take one domino to fall before the whole rotten structure collapses.

City were shafted by a couple of their new mates over FFP quite recently, weren't they?

Not sure why they're involved at all. They are not exactly short of money or awash with debt like some of them

Yes Kim (594), I thought that was a very dignified response by our club. Of course, one may argue whether this would have been the stance of the club if they had been invited to the “Sly Six” group. All hypothetical at this point, I know.

Dave A.

Good post mate.
Your slightly incorrect on one sentence.
Everton is more than a religion to many people.
Me included

The logical conclusion to this “super league” is the death of domestic football as we know it. This will lead to an international super league involving the rich Asian countries and North America.

Eventually the non-fashionable cities will lose their franchises to cities like Shanghai, Sydney, New York, Tokyo and the like. Mega cities with very rich populations.

This is why the fans of our north west clubs should be concerned. In 10 years time they might have to turn their stadiums into museums or parks.

Colin, there was a good segment in one of the podcasts I listened to today (might have been The Guardian). If you were designing a closed shop, franchise type league from scratch, then you'd spread them around. Different cities, different countries. You wouldn't have three London teams and three North West teams.

I think what you say is a definite possibility.

Colin, Manchester City is, objectively, a PR vehicle for the royal family of Abu Dhabi. The UAE is desperate to portray itself as a modern country the peer of the USA, UK, France, Japan, Australia and so on. It is interesting to note that the current iteration of City does not have obnoxious managers or players - I don't think you would ever see a Roy Keane or Jimmy Case play for them.

City will be a very weak link in this enterprise. There will be some attraction in the club being part of a European elite which is watched globally, but I strongly suspect that if faced with the hate now being launched at the likes of ManU and the RS (not to mention the ridicule being aimed at the two-time league winners - 1951 and 1961 - Tottenham Hotspurs), the Arabs will quickly decide they'd rather be popular than "successful" - Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed and his family don't need the money, and don't have to answer to shareholders. Their project is about acceptance by the civilised world, not screwing another billion out of TV rights.

Ernie, the very elite players, if given the choice, would probably prefer the exotic delights of Shanghai to the cobbled streets of Manchester or, the beaches of New South Wales to New Brighton.

Just imagine driving your latest Maserati down a super highway in Japan compared to getting stuck on a roundabout in Moss Side or a speed bump in Huyton.

Dave@593: I lived close to Liverpool until 2017, and have walked away from elite football before, including losing a lot of interest in Everton. My not watching it now is nothing to do with where I live, and everything to do with what I've said. In a way, it was never even an active decision, more a gradual process of increasing disinterest because of all the bias, cheating, corruption, and associated bullshit. I never watch any elite sports now, apart from Everton, and I'm quite prepared to walk away from Everton if disinterest directs me so.

I first went to Goodison in 1962, and it's in my blood, but the particular thing that's in my blood is the Evertons of the past. Walking away cannot take away that important (for me) past, but can reprioritise what I do in the future. It is, after all, a game, a luxury that can be dispensed with.

Dave, the weather in Stonehaven is obviously cooler, but it's also drier and sunnier than the NW of England, which is a major reason for living here. As they say round here, there's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing! Cheers mate.

Charles @602 that's a very interesting point about City needing popularity more than money. I hadn't actually thought about how they never have 'nasty' players or managers. Though obviously the owners crave success too. But, as you say, they try to avoid bad PR and this is fucking terrible PR.

I can well understand from a business point of view why these clubs decided to join this super league, they have been given a guaranteed income far greater than they currently get and there is nothing that will change that for a long period. I can also understand why both Liverpool and Man Utd want a bigger slice of the TV money which is split between the other 18 clubs. Their matches attract the biggest audience for Sky and without them the amount of money Sky could extract from its advertisers would be greatly reduced. So quite rightly from a business prospective their argument is they should get a much larger slice of the cake as happens in Spain with both Real and Barca getting a lot more from the TV deal than the other clubs.

So even if this super league deals falls through I believe that its only the start of the conversation not the end of it. I could well see Liverpool and Man Utd both deciding that they wont sign up to the next Sky deal and will either set up there own subscriber TV channel were the money goes directly to the club. The alternative is they don't sign up to the next Sky deal and rather than set up their own subscriber TV they sell the rights to all their games to Amazon or Netflix.

Either way whatever happens if the new league goes ahead or doesnt, the bottom line will be a massively reduced package from Sky.

Charles@602: That's a very interesting and insightful post. Some things in life and sport are far more important than wealth, and I think your post highlights that in the City context.

A similar principle works in relation to Everton, in that, for example, we've generally been more sporting and fair than clubs like Liverpool, and that is important and attractive. We've won fewer trophies, but when we have won them we've done it in style. Liverpool have never had a Golden Vision or Holy Trinity, manifestations of style. We won only one trophy with Ball, Harvey and Kendall, but we have a statue of them, a testament to quality over quantity.

These are just examples of the importance of quality, style, fairness, etc., in any age, the things that are really memorable and inspiring. The win-at-all-costs attitude of some clubs is, by comparison, ugly and ultimately something not to savour in the memory.

Stan - that's also why the RS and Man U fans are outraged by the ESL. They both see themselves as more than just a football club - the RS with their Shankly gates, YNWA and Justice for the 96 campaigns, ManUre with the Busby Babes legend, Best, Law,& Charlton, and being the first truly world famous English club. I really can't see the Kopites letting this one happen without a huge fuss.

While we are still the epitome of a giant LOCAL club, with the largest number of walk-up fans, the RS have managed to build a global brand that is firmly based on the image of being a local club. That's also the problem their local fans have. The globalisation of Liverpool FC has in reality swallowed the club. When it comes to it, Everton still rely on locals for not just their identity but also their main fan-base, Liverpool only rely on locals for their identity.

Michael to fair to some of the RS fans (just for this week) most of those that remember the Shankly/Paisley golden age probably are locals or at least from the City originally.

Most of the gobshites I've encountered since the Sky takeover of the game have never been close to the ground or Merseyside.

Brian Harrison (606), so you totally refute the notion that true sporting competition requires some ‘levelling of the playing field'?
You are ignoring the fact that those teams require fixtures to play in and how boring they would be if you allowed a couple of teams to get so far ahead of the opposition.
This is sport. It's not simply another commodity. Other sports employ a variety of systems to give ‘parity'; salary caps and draft systems, etc. Sport needs competition. The sharing out of the TV revenue recognises that.

It is interesting that the governments look at legal objections seems to run along the lines of ‘unfair competition'.

I've been falling out of love with this game for over 20 years. Admittedly it's a slow process! The game I adored as a kid didn't have diving, feigning injury, or VAR. My favourite tournament is the FA Cup - I love how the big boys can end up playing at a tiny ground somewhere in deepest England, and struggle on a dodgy pitch. The Premier League started this off, but I really blame the Champions League and its self-perpetuating financial system, which has given a few clubs elite status, and barring financial apocalypse, a status they are unlikely to lose. The ESL is just a natural progression of that, and I won't be watching.

See the Super League club Man City have 250 tickets still available for the final.
Not been taken.

Out of an allocation of 2,000

Si 610

I don't refute that true sporting competition needs some levelling of the playing field. And I have always hated the cartel around Champions league that we now have a seeding system. I hate FFP another system brought in by the same cartel that wants to stop clubs like Man City being able to pour in millions which threatens the stability of the cartel.

But the finances of most of the Premier league clubs is financed by Sky, and my point was if Liverpool and Man Utd did their own TV deals most of the other clubs would be in serious financial difficulty as the TV money could be halved if they weren't in it. Why are these clubs looking to create a ESL is money, and why because greedy agents and greedy players have bled this game of ours dry. You only have to listen to Pogbas and Haarlands agent telling clubs Pogba wants £500,000 per week and Haarland nearer a million a week. All these agents and players are after is as much as they can get, and to hell with football. As I have said in previous posts our own club pay 85% of our profits right into the players bank accounts how can that be right or sustainable. We like a lot of teams are living way beyond our means and why to keep supporters happy by buying players they cant afford.

Brian, who gives a monkeys about the Champions league if some clubs want to forever ensure there isn't proper competition in our own domestic league?
Maybe you don't refute it but you sound like a few surrender monkeys on here shrugging their shoulders and saying it's inevitable, it's just business or, most inappropriately, it's simply ‘evolution'.
Have people not noticed that business men sometimes do wreck their own businesses, that it is possible to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? The RS and United grew popular across the globe mainly because of their domestic competition successes. The Premier League is the most marketable in the world. If you have to share a bit of that jackpot with others to keep the overall competition thriving then only the terminally greedy would resent that.

Julian Knight, Tory MP, confirming the point about one lever being the ability to refuse work permits to EU nationals now Brexit has kicked.

Brent,

He's alSo looking at summoning the ESL clubs and others to report to his Parliamentary Committee, and give evidence re impacts on game and PL

Sky, BT, Amazon also saying they will be sticking with their existing partners, and not ESL..

Saving those for the holographic attendees Thomas. They don't want their images superimposed on one another.

Chris, do you know whether the committee has the power to require appearance before the committee? It would be interesting to see who from the clubs appeared - especially if any of them are not fully on board with the proposals!

Brent,

They can, but it's limited to a degree. Cummings was summoned to one but refused to attend, and held in contempt. He then became Johnson's adviser.

The Facebook man,, Zuckerberg was also summoned but didn't attend, but he's not a UK national.

It's relatively rare to refuse to attend, but it's happened.

Parliamentary Select Committees, like Public Inquiries, used to be quite powerful and influential, but far less so now.

20 points deduction and banned from buying players valued at £20m + for 5 years