FA Cup Final

I think I'll take the Ridgebacks out with me later to keep them at bay as I always seem to attract their unwanted attention.

I'm more concerned with tomorrow. Put me into a self-induced temporary coma, please, Everton.

But somewhere along the line, I don't know where and when exactly, but it did. The sheer nastiness went far beyond ribbing or gloating but descended into hatred. Now I am sure every blue feels antipathy towards them, but not on their levels, not on their sheer volume.

I have seen grown men and women consumed with bile, red in the face, shouting obscenities at the mere presence of a Blue. It was never like that, Danny, and I think there is a significant difference between the two sets of supporters now.

I can only sympathize with you as the swarms decend. I hope Chelsea win, because we are not the same as the other lot anymore. We got a divorce for cruelty.

Rivalry, banter but humour. It has definitely got more sinister. I actually can't stand them any more as a collective.

That said, I can still have a reasonably sensible conversation with some of my cousins and my brother-in-law is a massive red who I enjoy conversing with about football. He has 3 sons; 2 reds and one chosen one.

But collectively, their fan base has become odd and condescending. Entitled and shameless.

And to your point about us having their backs. They never understand it. I watched Evertonians risk being arrested when they confronted a gang of Manchester United fans chanting unsavoury remarks about Hillsborough in a bar before the 2009 semi-final. They might be our ginger step-child, but they are still family. You don't choose your family as my mother told me.

Same city, different worlds as they say.

For my sins, I married a staunch Red, and we had 2 sons – a Blue and (I'm ashamed to admit) the other a Red. Plus a daughter who decided to support Wigan Athletic 'cos her Grandad Quinn once played for the old Wigan Boro before signing on in the 1920s with Everton.

Now I have three grandsons and yes they are split as well: 1 Blue, 1 Red and 1 All Black! At least we just joke to each other, and thankfully being in New Zealand, we've missed all that nastiness there seems to be in the UK.

Whilst they are a lovely team to watch, I've always found their behaviour to be repugnant, they have always drawn disreputable players to them too. I don't think I've despised a player over the years more than Suarez. Klopp's antics after Pickford's error was an incredible display of poor sportsmanship never seen from a Premier League manager before, disgusting.

Even the pundits (actually, especially the pundits) Carragher, Souness and Thompson all ooze bile and vitriol from the very bowels of Mordor. I would include Owen in that but he's so vanilla and dull, I am able to ignore him.

I really hope Man City win the title and I firmly believe Carlo will outsmart Klopp in the final of the Champions League. Couple this with Premier League survival and a resurgence of belief and fan unity in the Blue half of the city and I will take that for now. COYB.

I'd actually seen the incident, it was after the game when McAllister scored a last-minute winner, and my reply was that the lad who was carrying on, was very fuckin lucky he had his kid with him. Otherwise, I'm certain he would have been thrown over the Upper Bullens stand that day, but he obviously hadn't told you he was carrying on like an absolute fucking divi.

This is why the hatred has grown off the scale now, because people no longer look at themselves – it's always about the way the “other cunts” carry on, and very soon, there will be a death after a Merseyside derby because of this, imo, unfortunately. (I just hope I'm wrong.)

A dark moment. A free kick to us that wasn't awarded then they get one.

They blatantly shift the ball 20 yards forward to take the free kick and then coco the clown (our keeper) falls like a wet salmon.

That was a long night. This is going to be a long day, surrounded by them.

Danny, you grew up in the same era as me, and I think it's because of this that those bastards (sorry) can't really hurt us. Sit quietly and who knows, they might even give you a lot of joy if things go badly for them today!

They have bred a cult. They also took over the media. Whilst all fans are myopic at times, they are the blindest, least fair-minded and least knowledgeable fan base in the world. They dress up in team shirts and scarves to watch the game in a pub. That's just weird. They refuse point blank to admit any blame for anything. If you highlight this they get offended and try to make out that it is about something that is certainly isn't about. The Suarez tee-shirts is a perfect example of this.

While our grounds might be close together geographically, as a fan base we are worlds apart. I'd rather die with our history than have to live with theirs.

But to even that up, they also had Dion Dublin on and he said "I am married to a scouser so I have to support Liverpool". Then this morning Sky news have the South African rugby captain on saying he is a massive Liverpool fan, again another who wouldn't have been in Anfield very often if at all.

But as well, their outrageous success. I genuinely don't think we'd have half the fanbase we have if Istanbul had happened to an Everton team. They would have spontaneously combusted with the sheer bliss of it.

In some ways, success is the worst thing that can happen – I'm still chasing that buzz from 1985. I don't think I'd have been able to watch the last 5 years if our place had been swapped with Liverpool. European finals, lost then won, it would have wrecked my head, and completely dominated my life.

I actually believe that we become more frustrated with football as we get older – it didn't bother you at all when you were still playing because your own games took precedence and also 20 times as many blokes played footy as they do now. With work as well, it left little time to follow your team, 2 games a weekend, one midweek and training took up your time.

That has been replaced by Sky Sports sofa supporters, who in general are shit at football, because they are the computer age and it's all at the touch of a keypad, actually that lazy to play the game, so know nothing and I mean nothing about how the game works. They just regurgitate what Sky say – it's pathetic.

Brian Clough said too much televised football would ruin the game at Grassroots, and he has been proved right 100%. Blokes used to play because they loved it and it opened up your social circle and gave you pals for life. The lazy buggers today just put the telly on and stuff their fat chops.

I will take banter from match going opposition fans, but never from the Sky followers – I just tell them to fuck off and come back when they actually play a game and actually been to watch their 'team'. Bunch of twats, just like Sky. Hope Chelsea win 5-0.

We don't allow them in Northwood

What I remember was a pretty average player that believed in their own hype, pretty injury prone and lacked bottle. Soon forgotten when Modric, Bale and Co benched him.

Add relegated to your cv as well.

File under Jamie Redknapp.

He can go from a world beater, to a player with a touch like a kurb.

I will never forgive them for the 5-year ban in Europe that destroyed one of the best teams Everton had from further trophies… and after the ban, they were the first team allowed back into Europe.

That Dale Winton used to be a boxer, I never knew that until Jim Davidson said he'd been well battered around the ring.

I always thought he was at his best when with WBA. Bobby B Shoes seemed to want to turn him into a target man, which was pointless IMO.

As for his touch, I thought his first touch was crap, his second was average, and his third touch fabulous.

You're incorrect.

All irrelevant – the best team in Europe had long since broken up.

They were back in come '91 when they finished 2nd and entered the Uefa Cup.

We stay up and I'll take that.

Inevitable that they won, don't know why I bothered watching.

I used to spend years being miserable if they won and would almost enjoy their defeats more than our wins. Now, I just pretend they don't exist. Turn them off, don't talk about them.

All that matters is Everton. Don't talk to Liverpudluans about Everton. Only talk about us among ourselves.

They can win the Ashes and the Grand Prix. Who cares. I'm only interested in us. Liverpool who?

Take comfort, though, my fellow Blues, our last four winning Cup Finals, we won in 90 minutes! We didn't need a safety net, never mind fucking two to bail us out!

Backing the draw now in Champions League final will be like buying money... nailed on. Imagine if penalty shootouts were scraped! ... footy heaven!!!

Sat with a household of RS. Awful afternoon

I'm sure this doesn't happen anywhere else.

I stopped watching/listening to any of their games in the 70s because of this malarky – their pact with the devil is ridiculous. You could spray Anfield with gallons of holy water and Old Nic would still be there. No wonder they play in all-red.

Great being a Blue isn't it...

Shithouse fans of a shithouse club with no class whatsoever! Footy has become a fucking joke wrapped in plastic...fuck 'em.

Let's win in style tomorrow Blues and start to reclaim our city with some style and good grace!

The tragedy resulted in all English clubs being placed under an indefinite ban by Uefa, from all competitions. It was lifted in 1991-92 with Liverpool being excluded for an additional 2 years, later reduced to 1 year.

Fourteen Liverpool supporters were found guilty of manslaughter and each sentenced to 6 years imprisonment.

Just saying like.

For a start, you only played a final there, and as I griped about, you played your semi-finals on a neutral ground that was usually fairly equal distances for both set of supporters

Now, they are played at the new Wembley that gives the London clubs and areas supporters an advantage, with less travel and most probably tickets.

A national Stadium should just be used for finals and the national team, not just to raise money.

COYB

I think we've made a tentative start to acquire it, strength of mind that is. I think Lampard will instil it. We have to dig in, but it doesn't make it any easier enduring the gloating and gobshitery of their unspeakable "fans".

Just remind them that they just love drawing every Cup Final they get to. When was the last one they won with any kind of style in 90 minutes?

"If they were training in my back garden, I would draw the curtains."

Other good news is I can't get Eurovision either. Happy Days!!

Calm down, calm down.

We definitely need to scrap Z-Cars in favour of the Moldovan entry!!!!

Gypsy for hire. Good rate of pay and free ale on tap.

Duties:- lift the curse of us and stick it on them.

I think Chelsea, had so many chances today and couldn't hit a barn door between Puliscic, Rom, and Alonso.

Done an ambitious Chelsea, and Real Madrid win double, but as long as Real Madrid, win the Champions League Final, We will all be very happy.

I hope there's a decent referee for the Champions League Final,, who knows the art of feigning, falling over, off the ball right hooks etc.

Milner does James, and 4 minutes later Milner gets done by James, and gets booked, but Milner got off with not even a word.

It's a very piss poor state of the EPL, with such overall very poor refereeing standards.

So tomorrow and Thursday, hopefully Everton, will make good, and by tomorrow night, hopefully Everton are safe, assuming Leeds and Burnley both lose.

On another point, In view of the fitness of Delph, all in all, in his time at Everton and previous clubs, as much as he's done well, the last few games, for Everton, he knows, the manager knows, and we know, that his body, his legs have gone and he's no longer fit enough to play at this level.

Time to replace, bring in a youngster, to fill his place.

If DCL, plays the next few games, I'm expecting them to be his last in an Everton shirt, so I hope he try's to go out on a high for Everton.

Bit the next game counts, and now to beat Brentford.

UTFT!

Bloody Oslo!

Yes, English football had a problem with hooliganism but so did many European countries. I distinctly remember Holland not being too far away from the so-called English disease.

We were made an example of because of the actions of one club. But why did we all suffer a 5 year ban? They should have had the 5 year ban alone, not all of us. Personally, it's Europe's long-standing dislike of the UK despite what we've done for them. There has always been a sense of resentment.

And, I don't want to sound controversial or provocative, but just as we rightfully remember Hillsborough, it's often forgotten that 39 football supporters, who I'm sure where as passionate about their club as me, went to a football match and never came home. God bless; that should never happen to anyone who follows the beautiful game with passion.

THEY tend to airbrush that from their history. LIve with ours rather than die with theirs.

Tony @20, yes Uxbridge. It's the end of the M40 so we always end up swarmed when they are in town. For the semi-final the police wouldn't allow City coaches into the town and directed them straight to Wembley. Favourtism of the highest order.

Bill @66, I've never been a fan of the semi-finals being held at Wembley. I have great memories of Villa Park in my teens. Personally, I've never been fond of a national stadium. It's just an opinion, but I think it lends itself to giving ownership of the England team to London and the south east. I much prefer the German example where they rotate the matches around the country. Take the national team to the people rather than make them travel to the capital. Even though it's a great capital and day out!!!

I am not an old wimp – in the Army, I was shot at in Cyprus, spent 33 years in the police, involved in deaths including murders (the Moors Murders), had bones broken by protesters and drunks. Heard every swear word you can think of (and used many verbally to friends etc) but never in print.

If a point can't be made without a swear word, then don't make it. Remember, ToffeeWeb is open for all to read – including children, so please have a thought before you post.

I'll put on my helmet now for the responses!! But note that there is no foul language in my post. Fingers crossed we get the 3 points tonight.

Don't know if the phrase 'beautiful game' is just a figure of speech but it's now far from it. Rotten or, at the very least, biased towards the clubs that generate the most global money, as ex-ref Mark Halsey admitted.

I've said many times we don't belong in this league and no amount of School of Science talk will change that until this useless board has gone and we at least act like pros. An Everton kit in our own airport and sports shops would be a start. Embarrassment.

Fans were regularly dying in Europe through violence in Italy, Germany and other places. We were made an example of because, again IMHO, we had a Prime Minister who was keen to control every aspect of society life (having already decided to put Merseyside in "managed decline").

Fast forward many years, and the Premier League (when football obviously began in 1992), I was at a Sports Commercial conference in Asia, and was sat next to someone from the Deutscher Fußball-Bund (something I know is close to your heart!), and he basically admitted to me that the rest of Europe was jealous of the commercial rights deals that the Premier League struck.

Back then (and still to a degree) the way the broadcast revenue was shared was "equitable". I think the split between 1st place and 20th was a ratio of 1.66. Of course, the Sky darlings have been trying to change it ever since.

The overseas broadcast deals which are now worth about the same as domestic, used to be split evenly – I've no idea if it still is and frankly I've long since lost interest – but our neighbours tried several times to change it on the basis that they are global – even Man Utd (initially) wouldn't support that.

Back then, in Spain, for instance, the top 2 used to get 22 x what the other clubs got.

Nowadays I just follow Everton, not football.

The language thing I get, especially in the written word on public forums. Occasionally I stray but I try not to too often. It goes back to being brought up to never swear in front of women. I always remember that being preached into me.

But language at the match and in the pubs around has always been colourful, to say the least!

With regards to our neighbours, they have changed. We have changed. It's just not the same relationship that it once was. And I don't say that happily. I still have a lot of friends and family who are as passionate as me. But the collective has changed.

Today is about us. Let's go and do this Everton.

Spirit of the Blues. Forever Everton. Marching down the Blue Torch lit Goodison Road.

Now, 30 years on, and life is becoming damn near impossible unless you possess a Smartphone. The power of surveillance by 'them' (whoever they may be), via your phone, makes an ID card look like membership of the Little Woody Club.

In the not-too-distant future, not having a phone on your person will be a reason to be taken into custody. We aren't approaching Brave New World – we are well and truly in it.

Anyway... 3 points today!

Must be careful here or we may be removed for being off subject! But thanks for the back-up re foul language.

Posters may ask why is it wrong? My answer is that when I was younger, I was told – would you speak like that to your Mum and if the answer was "No" then it's wrong so don't do it. End of subject.

As for the game – like you, I don't care who plays as long as they give their all, and we win or draw. Thanks again, Danny, and COYB

I used to love travelling to games with supporters from the opposing team, that was always a big part of the match day experience. For years of course, supporters have been kept apart because it's easier to police, but as a result we have lost something very important, the sharing of success and failure before and after the game

With regard to our neighbours, we need to grow up and acknowledge that for years they have been managed better than we have. Of course this is annoying and disappointing but the solution is clearly in our hands, we need to be better in everything we do.

So much of the club's destiny is out of our hands but in recent weeks when the team were clearly in need of extra support, the fans have found an extra voice and a win today should ensure our immediate future in the Premier League. If this happens it will be because of the fans who got behind and in front of the team when it was needed.

For me, if my team cannot win, I prefer that my neighbours win because ultimately that is better for the City. The best days were when we were 1st and 2nd in the league table. Quite simply, they have strengthened their position and we have almost wasted ours away, and all our efforts should be aimed at repairing and rebuilding the club. Let them celebrate their present glory, they have earned it; now we have to go out and earn ours.

Incidentally who was the Parish Preist who elevated Dave Hickson to sainthood? I probably knew him as well.

Of course we'll never catch them now. Football is not set up like that; they can pay double the wages we can pay, and attract players we could only sign by paying double their double wages.

Well-run club, yes, but the Premier League is a closed shop now. 63 of the last 64 qualifiers for the Champions League from England have come from the same six clubs.

We're playing for pride these days, Liverpool and the rest of the Sky Six are playing for the trophies.

Meanwhile, we threw money around like an inexperienced roulette player in a Las Vegas hotel and went through several managers over the same period. It makes all of us feel dirty saying it, but they absolutely nailed it.

I travel the country watching Everton. A home game is an away trip for me and, particularly when we play the London clubs at Goodison, I sit surrounded by the "away" fans on the train, taking the banter and giving it back. West Ham, Tottenham and even with Chelsea who I am always a bit cautious of; I've taken them to pubs or given them advice on where to go and mix with the Everton fans. The spirit of fans mixing is still there for the majority of us. Maybe just not in the ground as much as it used to be.

Here's a point; how much of the alleged potential trouble is overly caused by policing and the authorities creating a division?

I revert back to a derby game a few years ago where they almost tried to treat Liverpool fans like away supporters. Okay, technically they were, but like I'm going to fight with my cousin or nephew? Please.

Idiots will be idiots and we all have our fair share. But most of us will mix and mingle happily if left to it.

I agree with your post, though I have got carried away myself. Something not to be proud off, though I always refer to our neighbours as 'Liverpool' in my posts.

English football was dominating Europe and it wasn't liked regardless of the hooligan problem that was prevalent throughout England and Europe. They would have continued to dominate, with Everton leading the charge. We were going to win the European Cup; I was convinced and believe it to this day.

They should have been punished for their actions. Not the entirety of English football. It doesn't excuse for the mismanagement of Everton since, but it contributed significantly.

And I will accept being called bitter on that issue. Bitter with reason and cause and I'll have that conversation with any of them for as long as they want to embarrass themselves justifying the stain they put on our game.

One club's supporters committed a crime (yes) yet all were punished. Apologies, they're still around here lingering like a bad smell and I'm trying to focus on Brentford.

I would have quite happily seen my bet go down, had it meant Chelsea doing them.

At least we can say that we have won 9 league titles, without goal difference, won 5 f a cups in 90 mins, and a cup winners cup in 90 mins, without the need of extra time, or penalties.

It's important to note also that a root cause of the Hillsborough disaster was the Heysel disaster. Heysel led to fans being caged in, and it was this caging in that led to the deaths at Hillsborough.

Root causes are always the most significant causes of disasters. But the media have tended to ignore this fact in the case of Hillsborough, tending to focus only on immediate causes of the tragedy.

It was a tragedy that could have been prevented on a number of counts.

I can still remember in the '60s and '70s, and you were able to go in a pub with your wife and you wouldn't hear people swearing, or if they did, someone would tell them to keep it down as there were woman present. Now, I go back home out for a drink and some of the woman are worse than the men!

I am no prude, I worked in underground mining for 25 years and have been told to Fuck Off in various languages and called worse, but I still try to refrain from abusive language.

But supporting Everton, especially this season, I am not surprised at some of the language used, but they should really realize that there may be children reading these comments... and hey, they may be your own.

Women have always been worse than men, they just don't hide it anymore...

Didn't the police open up a gate to let the late-comers get in? It wasn't a regular turnstile entrance.

I recall my first derby at Goodison Park and Liverpool were up 3-0 by half-time. I was 17 years old and my face must have looked as ugly as my backside. One of our supporters in the Top Balcony must have seen this as he said, in front of many, "Why the long face, it's only half-time?"

Cracking second half and, although we only pulled two goals back, it was a great performance. That is a memory that always comes back to me when we play our neighbours from across the park.

Others have mentioned Heysel and Hillsborough and, to me, they are the events that turned things sour. Heysel denied us the chance to compete for the then ultimate European title whilst the deaths of 39 people were and still are brushed under the carpet. This disaster happened 14 days after our supporters were praised for how well they had interacted with the local population in Holland and how the night had been a success.

Then came the Hillsborough disaster which, quite rightly, was the news headline on the same day we progressed to the FA Cup Final, later to be joined by Liverpool. It was a perfect occasion for Merseyside to show a united front in the face of adversity... only it wasn't.

I was in attendance at the 1985, 1986 and 1989 finals at Wembley. 1985, 1986 the National Anthem was sung loud and with pride. 1989... our neighbour supporters deemed it better to sing their YNWA tune while the National Anthem was playing which garnered a load of abuse from my fellow Everton supporters... LFC was more important to them than the country as a whole.

To me, that was the demise of the "friendly derby". Events in Heysel, followed by the dissing of the National Anthem, was the straw that eventually broke the camel's back.

I might get slated for this and maybe it was just the time, but back in the day I actually used to enjoy the Anfield derbies more than the Goodison ones. The sight of the Kop being split 2 thirds / one third in a diagonal blue-red mix as you looked at it from the Anfield Road. A massive gap opening up in the middle at half-time as one or two had a Mexican dance-off. Nothing serious, a few missed punches whilst most just clapped and watched the half-time entertainment. Then all reconvened for the 2nd half.

And we got results too. Kevin Ratcliffe. Gary Stevens. Sheedy's free-kick and 2 fingers, even though we lost that one. But won the league.

It's just an opinion, but even back then, the derby atmosphere at Goodison always seemed a bit more toxic.

They did open the gates to try and ease the pressure outside the ground, the ones inside were already at near full capacity. The police though should have dealt with it a lot more efficiently which they didn't, they panicked and... well we all know the result of that awful day.

There were still thousands more fans than had tickets turn up.

I done it at the 2009 semi-final and final and watched in pubs close to Wembley to be part of the atmosphere. I didn't storm the ground, but watch some of the scenes for the all Merseyside FA Cup final in the 80s. Blues and Reds scaling the walls. I'm not being over dramatic here, but literally risking their life.

We used to joke about being lifted over the turnstile and I'll be honest, a lot of Evertonians "jumped the gate" at Watford last Wednesday. There were more fans in the away end than should have been if you want to be by the book.

Football grounds are now a lot safer than they were. We've all experienced those crushes and surges. Sometimes they went beyond being uncomfortable. I had to pass my brother over the fans and onto the pitch at Barnsley in an FA Cup match.

The way football grounds used to be and the way we were caged in is not something I would want to go back to. I get enthusiasm, but it seems the mentality of some fans hasn't changed. I'll gladly travel without a ticket. But I won't try to get into the ground if I can't get one.

But our name is on the National news for some stupid oaf making racist insults to Brentford players' families. Just a couple of dickheads……..! And the damage they've done.

We may have had our differences with Westminster over the years, but the second city of the British Empire has always been a proud part of this country.

I served for 28 years under the Union Flag. My Grandfather moved from Ireland to Speke in the 30s and fought in Burma.

They do not represent our city. We have an opinion but we are not disrespectful. I guarantee some of them will be in my local this week having voted for Boris Johnson and will sing God Save the Queen the next time Eng-ur-land play.

Always outraged, never embarrassed.

Hillsborough never even had a safety certificate, it was a disaster waiting to happen once those fences went in, with many Spurs fans saying it could have easily been them if those fences had been erected when they had played wolves inside the same stadium a few years previously.

Maybe it was only certain clubs who had fences up before Heysel, but Everton was definitely one of those clubs, and Spurs fans were very lucky that Hillsborough didn't.

I sometimes miss the terraces but I don't miss being caged in, which is what I grew up with. The memory fades but didn't Chelsea at one point consider cattle like electric shock fencing? I'm pretty sure it was discussed. We football supporters were literally treated as cattle and 3rd class citizens in sub-standard stadia.

It's interesting because there is an increasing clamour to bring back standing. In honesty, I haven't sat down at any of the away matches I've been to this season. Bring it back, make it safe.

Those crushes were sometimes not pleasant. I know I've said it before, but only weeks before Hillsborough, we got lucky at Barnsley. A decrepit stadium and worryingly similarly, the crowd all congested in the middle pen with the sides being half empty. I've mentioned before, my brother pretty much passed out and along with others had to be passed over the crowd once I and a few others could get enough space behind the crush barrier to be able to lift him.

Fortunately that day, the police realised the situation and opened the gates so people could get out. I'll always remember Neville Southall looking behind the goal with genuine concern at the fans lining up alongside the pitch being treated by the St John's Ambulance match day staff. I'm sure those who were there know how close that was to being our own tragedy.

On them lot turning up without tickets, remember the 2007 champions league final in Athens, thousands turned up without tickets, they were mugging their own fans in particular children at the turnstiles and stormed the outer perimeter, a lot of fans with genuine tickets couldnt get in as the ground was already over its capacity. They are just a bad stain.

Of course, there's more than one underlying cause of Heysel, another being the inadequate structural state of the stadium in relation to the ‘reasonably foreseeable' event of rioting from hooligans and crushing impacts due to such rioting. Modern stadia should be built to withstand any reasonably foreseeable impacts, unlike many old stadia.

Similarly for Hillsborough, the state of the stadium was unsuitable in relation to withstanding reasonably foreseeable crushing, in this case the unsuitability relating to the (reasonably foreseeable) potential to trap and kill people, through the presence of the caging-in.

In the above respects, as I say the caging-in was a cause of Hillsborough (perhaps an obvious statement), and an underlying cause of the caging-in was the behaviour of hooligan fans, the behaviour at Heysel being an example of such behaviour. In this sense, Heysel was an underlying cause of Hillsborough, in that its occurrence gave added credence (in the eyes of decision-makers) to decisions to cage fans in.