Champions League Final

Is it just me or is the BBC giving about ten times as much coverage on Radio and online that for Chelsea in last year's final?

Go to the main football page of the BBC, it's currently got 12 articles or such directly related to them. I know the season has ended but this is bias being allowed to run free.

I hope Carlo pulls it off, will we see black borders on the sport pages then?

Wouldn't watch them for all the tea in china we all know the drill a spawny draw followed by a win on pens. Whatever the result their hideous followers will cause carnage. Some really disgusting specimens aligned to that circus.

It will be kick and rush on steroids tonight, Barry.

Loads of big loopy crosses from Arnold and spawny bounces. Henderson – without doubt the worst captain in the history football to win a Premier League trophy – running around pointing at things. Can't remember the last time they had a player sent off, a penalty against, or an actual injury crisis.

I can watch Man City but not these. Ever. It's horrible. Hala Madrid!!

I am breaking with habit just to watch Real Madrid beat these spawn of Satan.

As long as Huddersfield beat Wigan in the challenge cup. I'm not bothered who wins the football.

Building a new bathroom here with 5 live or talksport on, they are taking turns to chat to any Liverpool player from it's past, fans in both the city and in Paris.

All week the BBC have run stories on their players, sometimes several each day. I hope that Real Madrid expose them for the over-rated, predictable. long ball merchants that they are.

Becker to have a mare and perhaps get sent-off for tripping Benzema. Their lovely fans to go on a rampage and get us all banned from Europe. It wouldn't matter to us. Oh, and if they do win on pens, a nice pitch invasion.

I think there is going to be hell to play in this city, if it's true about those WhatsApps that are flying around.

Apparently someone has invented a fake coach company called coach innovation's, an the sole person with active control was called Mr Richard Arlison.

I know they should have read the small print, but that's a very naughty trick that someone has played on those stranded Liverpudlians, and definitely one that's going to fan the flames of hatred even further!

Come on, Carlo, you old git. We are counting on you.

Tony 8, I think and hope that's bull.

Yeh Barry, hopefully just someone jumping on the bandwagon and taking the piss, because that'd be one naughty trick that.

Only watch them when they play Everton; not changing today.

Outraged by everything ashamed of nothing. Wonder if the Real Madrid team coach still has windows intact.

Hope Richard Arlison made it to Paris to cheer on the Madridistas. Hahaha. Fuck the kopites. Biggest dickheads in football everyone of them, family included.

Heysel - never forgive, never forget.

Correct, Frank.

How can a club that has done so much damage to English football be the darling of the media, I wonder!!!!!? Have they no shame at all?

Tony @8.

Tony that's a typical Twatter story. The company in question has been in operation since 2006.

There are loads who've fell for it and believe it mind. Which is funnier than if it were true to be honest. 🤣

What I dislike most is the sense of entitlement these clubs have, I despise Real Madrid just as much as the other lot.

The other day, I read a very good article in The Independent of how money is ruining football and how in the future it will be almost impossible for a club outside of the elite to be successful.

We were mentioned in it as The Everton Problem – where clubs cherry-pick our best players, as seen with Stones and Lukaku.

I won't be watching today but of course hoping Liverpool get stuffed.

Forza Carlo, and Viva Los Blancos!

Don, look on the bright side - you are being given another handy facility to show ongoing disdain and to mock the RS. Imagine the party later...

How is the Aston Villa manager there commentating on Liverpool? It's an absolute joke with these despicable bastards

French radio reporting ticketless fans trying to overwhelm the stewards and force entry.

Guess which club?

Hope they weren't at Hillsborough, Matt

Mind boggling they haven't got a single injury worry for this game.

Deal with Devil, or very dodgy medical practices. Simply zero other rational explanation.

Come on Don Carlo!

Paul - yet here you are!

I guess the thread is here due to interest. There are many fourms - maybe following Real, for example? It's all optional... and provided free of charge; not bad.

I'll be watching for those parasites with their taunting Steua Bucharest banner that glorifies Heysels.

Come on, Blue Carlo.

Always outraged never embarrassed.

Delayed kick off now

https://twitter.com/MORTTHEFOURTH/status/1530620776185044996?s=20&t=Qp7cJ2W3JCy5ieJ4cokeFA

At it again

Gary, it's like another world to what our squad has experienced this season (on the back of however many others).

How can things vary so widely at this level, in this age - weird.

Already getting flak for putting up this thread to accommodate comments previously posted who want to comment...

Irregardless, is there any desire for a Live Forum? Guess I can open the gates anyway, for those who are more comfortable in there...?

Michael, it's your baby - have at it. Just don't let the RS in...

From the BBC-

Gary Lineker has just tweeted: Finding it impossible to get in the ground. This appears to be very dangerous.

Have they lit any candles for the dead Juventus fans yet? or have I missed that?

Do what you want Michael and fuck the moaners. If you disagree with there being a thread on the Champions League final then don't post.

It is the pinnacle of European football, and there is an English team involved, and we want to see that team get twatted! 🤣

Oh and by the way, the rs lot have been tear-gassed due to their behaviour outside the stadium.

RS fans already in tears outside apparently - they've not even lost yet.

According to French media there is unrest by THEM right now outside the Stade de France!!!! They are at it again.

Ticketless Liverpool fans blocking the entry gates, apparently.

They rushed the gates at the FA Cup final and they're doing it again.
It's their modus operandi.

Daniel (36); Apparently Kenny Dalglish has laid a wreath for the victims, at the Stade de France.

Mad how the Chelsea and West Ham fans have stormed the gates at another European Cup final. The NF bastards.

Watch the dirty kopite media try and spin thi.s

There's a common theme lasting decades with redshite fans jumping turnstiles and forcing their way into stadiums etc. On more than one occasion, people have died as a result. No other club cause trouble like this lot, and yet the media still think the sun shines out of their arse.

Hope the stadium walls are sturdy

Being tear gassed now lol.

Tear gas and riot police now, French police unprepared for the sheer red scouse stupidity

Crawling up the walls ffs!

The Live Forum is up for anyone interested.

(Swearing in French only).

You said what my thoughts were, Brian @37. Thank you.

No matter how much we despise Uefa, FFP, the entitlement of the monied clubs with fat Euro coefficients, the biased refs, the shite of the VAR, etc etc, at the heart of it is (or should be) a game of football between two teams. One of them happens to be led by our ex-manager, which means something for some of us.

I fucking hate Liverpool and every single unnecessary reference to them on this Everton website. But, as Brian says, this is the Champions League Final, 2022.

Soren - is that on film?

Free to watch on your tube don't forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvsU48M4dpY

What a mess by the French organisers. Their police, of course, are a disgrace: remember Lille?

Yes Will. On French tv.

Soren, thanks - hope some catch the truth on their phones. I prefer reality to spin.

This will be whitewashed by the red press.
You can write it now... Police heavy handed, organisation poor, Liverpool fans victimised because of Brexit...

Strangely enough they blame "the late arrival of the kopites" for the late ko!!!!!
Surely teargas and shite hanging from the exterior walls not just because of them being late!

La merde rouge!

Strange how there "appears" to be no problem at the Madrid gates.

Real Madrid fans all got there early and are all in the ground.
Liverpool fans once again bring shame on the city by arriving late and storming the gates to get in and fully endorsed by Carragher who said he would do the same.
No shame or remorse at that club always the victims.

Ticketless fans trying to get in. Now where have I heard that before?

Strangely enough they blame "the late arrival of the kopites" for the late ko!!!!!
Surely teargas and shite hanging from the exterior walls not just because of them being late!
[url=https://ibb.co/1QhczVN][img]https://i.ibb.co/0285sNL/1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-20220528212830.jpg[/img][/url]

Sounds like the Richard Arlison story is sort of true, some fans stranded by the coach company. Then apparently someone has doctored the companies house registration so the sole director's name of the coach company is listed as Mr Richard Arlison.

In an update to the plight of the fans left behind, Jordan Halliwell wrote: "No communication at all, had fellas there with tickets for the game aswell but can't go now.

"200 fans stranded for 6 hours with no communication from the company and not even any update

Before adding: "Empty coaches drove past the stop beeping at us, got through to a manager on the phone and got told no one was at the stop we were at apparently."

They've all been in Paris for what seems like months, why are they late getting to the stadium? Bell ends

Paul, have a look at what Kevin just posted in the LF.

Two greedy shithouse clubs with no class but think there just entitled because of who they are...sigh.

Fuck 'em!

I hate both but despise the shite. So enemy of my enemy is my friend tonight.

Can't wait till this is a super League game.

I think we are in for even a harder time as blues this summer, unfortunately Liverpool are just relentless. Depressing really.

Var rules in their favour again. Can anyone explain that.

Shame that Benzema was in an offside position on the pass from Fabinho!!

Jay, although the ball came off a rs player it has to be deemed to be "intentional" which, as much as I hate to admit it, it obviouy wasn't.

Any more news on Rondon's potential move to the Balearics?

Brian but there was a Liverpool player a yard behind him. Does the goalkeeper factor into offside. I also disagree that Fabhinos touch was accidental. He was going for the ball.

Jay, just explaining it the way the ex ref did. Believe me I wanted it to stand!!!

Anyone like to see Davide Ancellotti one day back as manager at Everton?

No.

The Perfect Storm: Liverpool 0 Real Madrid 1? Now that is what I call a Real shame!!!

🍺🍺Madrid!

Unbelievable, they won't be remembered as quadruple winning immortals but they will be occasionally recalled as winning the Carabao & Emirates cups, both on penalties. Achieved after overcoming, amongst other challenges, Shrewsbury, Preston, Forest, Cardiff and Norwich. How cruel footy can be.

Yesssss fuck off you redshite bastards I fucking HATE you.

Well in Carlo!!

You know I always loved you.

Thibo too, easiest MOTM pick ever

Ok Carlo...perhaps you haven't quite wiped the slate clean but massive thanks for tonight!

Carlo Magnifico!

Brian thankfully it didn't matter. Yessssss.

Me neither, Brian - but I will always like his dad. Well done Carlo. A self-styled Evertonian getting the better of the RS on the big stage, with probably the worst Real Madrid First XI in living memory.

Nice one!

Carlo doing what Carlo does eh

Link

Always said that Ancelotti was good - Crosby can celebrated to night...if the rs leave anything unbroken.

Well well, that's what I call a Real shame. !! Ho, ho, ho Up the Blues!!

it's good news for the blues
and there's no more time to lose
‘cos we're hot on the trail
and there's no way we're gonna fail
so get your coat on and get moving
‘cos we don't know the meaning of losing
so come on, come on,
get down to goodison park. wooooo

everton, we never shone so brightly
everton, the spirit of the blues.
everton, we never shone so brightly
everton, the spirit of the blues.

Thank you God and Carlo. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 sorry one too many 😂

Agent Carlo!!!

At least he is honest tbf. He said when the call came in he couldn't say no.

Well, the perfect storm didn't happen. The RS didn't do the quadruple or even the treble.

If one thing is tougher to take than relegation, it must be losing a Champions League Final. The pain is all theirs. Let's just hope they behave themselves.

Funny how quick things can change in football.

Onwards and upwards.
COYB.

well that's not bad 50% of a quadruple and unable to win the other 2 in extra time, my memory fails me sometimes but didn't they win a European competition on the toss of a coin or was that just one of the rounds.

Jeff@82

Yes, but he's OUR c***

Carlo does it for us - the RS have to feel failure at last. It's embarrassing to hear the BT/Sky Sports reds trying to say they are the best team in Europe! Pathetic!

A win at Anfield and now beating them in the champs league Carlo the gift that keeps on giving.

YNWA in the dole queue

Imagine being so dim when you think Carlo is the problem

That's for you Dazzler

I think Carlo is a very lucky coach, ok he knew he had a shitshow here, but luckily he had a better offer, do you want to coach DCL, Iwobi and Gomes?, or Bzima, Vinny and Modric??

Err ...I'm off

Re: the coach story... there's a photoshopped picture of a cackling Richarlison driving a bus floating around Twitter... which Richarlison himself tweeted the moment the match was over.

This is why we love Richarlison.

Iv poured another whiskey. The pro Liverpool pundits on BT predicted “comfortable wins” for Liverpool ha ha.

Well done Carlo

Bill #99, Cologne 1965.

Another good tweet, from the official account of "Richard Arlison" (accompanied by the pic of Carlo in sunglasses, puffing the cigar with the Real Madrid players) --

"Hi, I'm Richard Arlison. There never was a coach. So get walking, but don't worry - you'll never walk alone."

It hurt when Carlo left - but we all knew we couldn't compete with RM - and let's face it - it would have taken the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost to get anything out of our squad - how Frank did, I've no idea - but somehow he might have got a bit of divine intervention - or the Goodison crowd as 12th man!

Just shows, you can be the best manager in the world, but to turn us into anything half decent Is close to impossible - here's to another struggle in 2022-23….

Been a shit season but boy did it end well!

Could this be a turning point for Satan's Own? I think it may be. Trent's "defending" for the goal was hilariously dreadful and the mighty Thiago was appalling.

They had a look about them of a side not quite right mentally and in their general performance.

Quadruple in their grasp and they fucked it up. That's going to take some coming back from. Archangel Michael is Blue.

Agent Carlo! Mission accomplished! Unlike Agent Rafa whose mission failed miserably!! COYB.
Carlo Magnifico, all is forgiven. 😂

Carlo is a top, top class manager. The people on this site that don't agree literally know nothing h about football

Carlo Fantastico……..Carlo Magnifico……Ole Ole Ancelotti!!

I live in this city, they have surrounded me this last few weeks, believe me, they have massive support in this city, every other car, every other 5 houses have been draped in red these past 4 weeks, it's been hell living amongst it, I don't subscribe to the 6,000 local season ticket bullshit, these are everywhere, but tonight they're quiet, there's fireworks going off but they are blue, tomorrow they have their parade, I'm staying indoors, but it will be embarrassing for them, 2 cups won on pens, don't get me wrong I'd love that, but for them and they're houses and cars draped in flags it will soon tail off into a normal Sunday night in Liverpool,...boring and waiting for Monday to start the week!

They've been in 3 finals and haven't scored a goal. Let that sink in.

Bingo cry arsing on TV. Hahahaha. Needs his eyes doing again

Jamie#113
Signing a contract with Everton and insisting on a "get out" clause...not a top manager for me.

Listening to these pundits, I don't think Liverpool would have got much more praise if they had won tonight……… Nah, it would have been unmerciful!

Your getting loyalty and top confused Brendan.

" And Englands star right back er... goes missing and Madrid score" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff - these gobshite with flags aren't real supporters, they are typical Liverpool fans. They don't go the game. They watch games in the pub wearing a replica kit- if they actually watch it at all.
Their flags will be folded away until next time they are in a final when they will all emerge from under their rock and out of the woodwork.

Jamie#120
No... I'm thinking personal integrity

Regardless of whether he had a get out clause with us, Ancelloti nevertheless is a top, top manager.

To think, there were people on here telling us he was a busted flush and a has-been. You see what happened to us when he left. Minus 20 points compared to last season.

Jeff @115, they're mostly armchair. The number of season tickets within the city is pitiful. Flags aplenty but they are indeed gobshites. That's the difference between us and why they hate us so much. They have all the trophies, true, but they have no authenticity or class.

I've always said that they're Mock Tudor to our crumbling Country House. Snobbish, I acknowledge, but they just keep missing the mark despite all their hard work over many years; still don't know which cutlery to use.

Well done agent Ancelotti a self confessed Evertonian. Where does the Carlo statue go at Bramley Moore! At least Dixie's statue, St Rupert's tower, BMD dock walls and the Liver building should be safe tonight. Liverpools's best ever team? Don't make me laugh. They'd be rubbish without their fake asthma medication. A domestic cup double.. fair effort...which makes them akin to Arsenal 92 93 with parlour bould and dixon. Hardly the world's greatest team. Klipperty on moaning. I'm drinking Italian lager in tribute to Carlo and loving it. COYB!

the official covid count is under six thousand season ticket holders in merseyside region, ours is / was 27 thousand

Jeff # 115. I don't know where about you live in Liverpool, but where I am, in Allerton right opposite calderstones park, there are very few banners and flags hanging from houses all around the area. I walk our dog all around the area where I live, even as far down as Woolton village, and believe me, there are very few banners and flags. As for car flags, meh, forget it, there are hardly any. I'm really looking forward to walking our dog tomorrow!

Carlo Fantastico!!

jeff post 115, that's the official figure of kopite season ticket holders ( covid restricted travel) not just an evertonians. granted they come out on a glory day that's the difference, formby here full of em and they couldn't find the anfield area

Tony 125, a lot on here are “armchair “ doesn't make them any less of fans than those who go the game, like it or not they have more than 6,000 local fans, anyway they are all gobshites wether they go the game or not!
tonight I'm a Madrista

fair play jeff. just our little victories ie more local fans attend but as you say we no more or less a blue whatever. god boss fantastico

Just seen the result what delicious joy, well in Carlo

Too right, Jeff @130, but we have fewer armchair than them. They are ultra armchair and many of them are clueless. Anyway, fuck them all: they lost when it mattered.

Their parade, despite the hideous gurning of their Leader and the windy choruses of their "faithful", is going to be an exquisite anti-climax. Relish it.

Carlo never won the Champions League with Everton though - still an unproven manager for me

That richard arlison ( richarlson) is going to escalate the hatred to us for bogus coaches from the rocket. ha ha fck em won't stop me going to town tomorrow I can handle myself. Take it with a pinch of salt anyway ( or pepper )

Carlo fantastic
Carla magnifico...
Etc
Etc

"I lived in Liverpool for 2 years. For me it's like a derby because I am still an Evertonian,"

Rob (128)). Here in downtown Waterloo/ Crosby it's like Berlin in the mid 1930's with massive flags and all sorts of Shute hanging from house to house. Here Klopp's gurning face peeking out from windows and a local shop over the past years selling life size Klopp figures to stick on your door etc. Talk about propaganda.. Goebells couldn't have done a better pr job better. And what's with all this affinity quoting Beatles (shite) “ lyrics” on their posters??? Sue the flees Macca! B

Jeff 112. Are you sure they ain't Norwegians lol?

Just want to add that klipperly looks collapsed in the interview.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees have avoided football pubs all night. Taxi driver gave me the glorious news.. Despise them all. Scheadenfreeudelicious. Quadruple my lilly white one.

Carlo has just beaten — the what were they calling them? Oh I know, the quadreds! Quadropy more like it!

are them liverpool fans still waiting by the rocket for coach operater richard arlison ??

Just think think of the thousands upon thousands of of RS, inside and outside the stadium and all over the world. millions. Feeling distressed. Yes, nothing better. 99. 9 999999 per cent of the law abiding citizens around world feeling unadulterated joy.

Glad Ancelotti, an Evertonian, won. Klopp will have to learn how to score in open play in a final, relying on extra time and penalties is risky and doomed to failure.

3 Cup finals, 0 goals. Must be some kind of record.

Charles Brewer, do you not think you're being a little disrespectful to the greatest strike force of all time?

Also, is the FA Cup now Worthless Cup II?

Sad… I loved the FA Cup.

Jeff 104. Lucky indeed. He has won the lot year on year. A dinosaur of a manager according to some has just won the double.

Just think back to last January when we where in the top 4 and Moshiri and Kenwright presented him with Josh king.

We will never win a thing with those 2 involved at the club.

Up the Toffees

Just watched klopp post match interview. What an arrogant smart arsed prick. Liverpool personified. Nothing new.

Binge watched a series on BBC iplayer, started watching at 7ish and just finished, came on here to see what happened in Paris and the 'greatest team ever' lost another nailed on trophy. Who would have thought a fortnight ago, that their fans wouldn't be crowing over a quadruple and our relegation? I've heard that they had to cancel a 'going down' party at the Pier Head, a League title party and now a champions league final party too - hope they didn't lose too much in deposits for all of those events.

Anyway it's been a good fortnight for Evertonians, and never forget that the lovable rogues from across the park, wanted Everton relegated almost as much, if not more than they wanted to win the major trophies. If their fans start giving Blues grief for being obsessed about their club, kindly remind them that even when they are chasing everything they still have an eye on Everton FC.

Congratulations to Carlo!

Scum of the earth. Entitled, arrogant, shit bags. Enjoy your half arsed parade. An example of how not to conduct ones self.

Well, that was very enjoyable. 😀

Let the whinging begin.

Funny how the Madrid fans all managed to get into the ground without trouble.

Carlo, laid back, double chin. Klopp tight as a violin string, plastic surgery. I love it.

Actually I take back my comment @ 148 after watching Kaveh Solhekol's video clip on this link.

Link

My only previous comment (@20 as it was) having been quickly deleted by our allegedly arch anti-Koppite Michael K (in a manner right out of the Trump/BoJo handbook) I just say that it's totally pathetic for a TW site to be derisory of ANY club whose success in one season dwarfs ours for the past 50 years.

That doesn't mean, if any muppet is reading this, that I have a scintilla of regard for THEM.

On the contrary I always ask who's responsible for us being so shite for so many decades.

A blind, deaf man knows the answer but how pathetic is it to extol on an Everton website the "glory" of bog-standard serial winners against mega-favoured UK pretenders?

It makes me fucking angry.

In fairness to Liverpool.. . Hahaha losers! George Graham got sacked at Arsenal when he won the two domestic cups! You suck! No goals during three cup finals witj two running to extra time. Hahaha you suck! Sorry for the immature outburst folks but hahaha you suck!!!!!

At least the Round House will not be getting graffittied now!

If I have learned anything over the years following football, it's generally just don't speak and keep your opinions to yourself.

Liverpool have been over the media, terms like ‘revenge'. I will sign my contract after the final etc etc. They have played right into Madrid's hands who have quietly gone about their business.

The way Liverpool fans hounded out Rafa Benitez, I actually think they where worse than us. ‘Rafa's at the wheel' at Goodison, even his name was sung to high heaven at Anfield when he was sacked. I thought the level of disrespect was atrocious. They called him ‘'Agent Rafa”. Just imagine being Rafa Benitez and seeing that everywhere.

Then, this is the keep your opinions to yourself but, Carlo Anchelotti has left us to take the reigns at Madrid. Everybody hated it, but let's have it right, it's Madrid and he was probably promised all sorts at Everton and didn't get it. Anyway, he takes over, then he beats Liverpool in the final. I mean you can't really write that for us. They way they treated Rafa and now our old manager does them in Paris.

I have tried my best to keep off social media in regards to putting stuff up. But some of the stuff I have seen over the last few weeks in hilarious. If they would of quietly gone about it, it may of been different. However that final was won in their eyes. Not one person I spoke to said Madrid would win. Not one. They were just made up they didn't get City.

I was in town for the first half and came home once I realised I was hammered and starting to feel grim. That train ride home was a good one when I saw the ball hit the net for Madrid. I have had all sorts since, even my father in law has rang me to offer me a fight because I text him saying ‘ouch, you were the better team on the night'. Funny thing is, he was first to text me after the derby match saying ‘I hope you go down and good luck in the Championship'.

Yet again, keep your opinions to yourself because one day they will bite you in the arse. COYB!

When the goalkeeper is MotM, the defence in front of him knows how to channel the opposition play to savable shots. Though the goalkeeper has to be technically good and errorless.

Agent Rafa — Mission failed.

Agent Carlo — Mission completed.

Have they cancelled the errr trophy parade? After all, they are very quick to tell us and the world that domestic cups are for the likes of inferior others.

Jeff #115

I live locally, too, and there's flags all around but most of them are bandwagon, teleclapper, reds who have never been to a match in their lives.

I was in town, yesterday morning, and a bedecked RS actually asked me if Anfield was near the city centre. I kid you not.

Anyway, after a shit season the last 10 days have been great. I now hope it actually pisses down on their parade!

Based on win percentage, Carlo is the best manager we've had since Howard Kendal lMk 1. A top, top manager. With funds and time he'd have had us in the mix for trophies again, I've no doubt.

I am sorry I find most of these posts pathetic, particularly when Ancellotti was so quick to leave us when he got a better offer. His new team play boring football but he has a magnificent goalkeeper and on the night they deserved their win.

But I just wish we could learn something from Liverpools professionalism and organisation. Surely it's time for us to grow up and realise that their success is largely down to old fashioned hard work and quite brilliant recruitment.

It's also sad that many fans travelling to this game had a raw deal and were treated very badly. Please remember that some were our relations and certainly friends and neighbours.

Bill, I'm sure given their class and dignity, it will be mostly a sombre day on the anniversary of Heysel with players and fans alike wearing black armbands!!??

David #156,

My son was in Paris (don't ask) and told me loads of RS had phoney tickets and were planning to bunk in as they'd done at Wembley.

Klopp was encouraging fans to go to Paris even if they didn't have a ticket! He should answer for his part in the ensuing problems at the stadium. The chaos was solely caused by their fans with fake tickets

It's remarkable there were no reported delays in the Real Madrid part of the ground. I wonder why?

David, bro, your post @156. They had a big party planned at the Pier Head celebrating our relegation, so sorry they are/were not my friends and certainly not my relatives. RIP 39 – today's anniversary.

I reckon UEFA should nullify the game and replay it at Anfield
No Madrid supporters allowed
Courtois banned.

Absolute joke result

Ancelotti should be pepper sprayed and tear gassed on arrival

Free flight from Oslo for all true supporters

John@160 don't forget free travel from Devon.

Seriously though, wouldn't it be nice if Everton could actually win something. Ideally when we are all young enough to remember it!

David@156, second paragraph - get paid mate.

Don@151 I understand your sentiments 100% mate, but sometimes we have just got to be very thankful for small mercies.

Rob@143, second paragraph - definitely wins this whole thread.

After initially thinking they would be to strong for Madrid, I then started getting a feeling that Liverpool would lose, because of fate.

Liverpool FC, not being prepared to play on the anniversary of Hillsborough, is something I understand and definitely respect, but having a victory parade on the anniversary of Heysel, is very insensitive imo, even if one close Liverpudlian, actually told me, I'm just trying to score cheap points. Wow

It cannot be a coincidence that these “ticket” problems are always when they play!!

Joe @161,

Jesus, you would never get near this new Fan Advisory Board with outrageous suggestions like that! 😂 Totally alien way of mindset. (I said 'mindset' – not 'trainset'!)

For the sake of balance, the French Police are notorious for wading in early.

That's that out of the way.

Watching the reports this morning, the main focus of blame is on the Police, UEFA and the organisers. Yes they mention fans buying fake tickets and trying to climb the gates, but it's as far down the pecking order as Everton's listing on Match of the Day.

Repeat; fans with fake tickets and scaling fences. More fans trying to get in the ground than allocated places. They, more than any other club, should know better.

But let's deflect blame. On this day, 39 football supporters went to a football match and never came home.

Always outraged. Never embarrassed.

Good moaning! Sorry good morning (A bit of Allo, Allo in my head because of French). Anyway, bollox to them. The spotlight and big story in my eyes anyway is Mr Thelwell and Frank Lampard as we speak plotting our revival. RIP 39.

JFT39

Stark difference this morning in relation to media reaction compared to our pitch invasion just over a week ago.

Exactly what I was going to say Danny. The BBC website is entirely turned over to RS deflecting, moaning, playing the victim. Not a peep about them losing.

Has everybody forgotten Klopp telling the RS to go to Paris even if they don't have tickets? He should be charged with inciting a riot, the arsehole.

I've no doubt it was a very badly organised event and lots of innocent RS were I'll treated by the police. But let's be honest about this, British away fans travelling on this scale are a nightmare, and the RS have so much form for causing mayhem (coaches, fountains, liver buildings, you know the rest) and bunking in that you don't have to be an Evertonian to be able to guess some of the contributory factors last night.

Never to blame eh.

Imagine our 1985 team getting a Champions League group like they did... Jeez, we would've waltzed that cup. Probably about 3 times because no way Lineker or Kendall would've left. Sobering thought on this anniversary.

Oh and they seemed to have latched onto The Beatles with their world famous wit in their banners, ie, All You Need Is Klopp, (no mention of Ticket To Ride 😂

There has been 3 European finals lately. 2 went off with NO problems. Make of that what you will.

The press are absolutely terrified of Liverpool nowadays, and this is something that is very clear to see, because we are thankfully outside that “big red bubble” that has been created.

If forged tickets have been responsible for the hold up then it's on Liverpudlians. If this was not the case then it's on UEFA, especially because they don't give out enough tickets to the genuine supporters.

Both clubs received 20,000 tickets, so if UEFA are not prepared to give more tickets to the fans (unless it's through the black-market - I'm actually convinced this is why Liverpool “the black markets biggest payers” got such an easy draw - right through) then this game should only be played in the biggest stadiums in the world, imo.

The flags and banners are looking a bit damp this morning after heavy rain and even heavier tears.

As others have noted it is puzzling there is no coverage of Madrid fans turning up in their thousands with fake tickets or no tickets.

Delighted for Real Madrid last night, reading all the comments how the Liverpool supporters were treated, just wondering why the journalists didn't mention that there was no trouble whatsoever at the other side of the ground where the Real Madrid supporters entered the stadium? A leopard never changes its spots.

My apologies if this has already been posted & also if the link don't work

https://youtu.be/0PqBUDKYh9c

Hi Everyone,
I awoke this morning thinking despite all the problems in the world Ukraine,Johnson,cost of living etc., Yes,despite this,I woke with a feeling of calmness,at peace,full of love for my fellow man yes,it was like an epiphany moment,a road to Damascus moment It made one feel that there is a God somewhere and yes,he does listen to your prayers aaaaah. UP THE FUCKIN' TOFFEES !!!

Hi Everyone,
I awoke this morning thinking despite all the problems in the world Ukraine,Johnson,cost of living etc., Yes,despite this,I woke with a feeling of calmness,at peace,full of love for my fellow man yes,it was like an epiphany moment,a road to Damascus moment It made one feel that there is a God somewhere and yes,he does listen to your prayers aaaaah. UP THE FUCKIN' TOFFEES !!!

I gave my RS son in law a packet of M & M's this morning to help lift the gloom of the ‘morning after' feeling and having ate a few the ungrateful twat said he couldn't eat anymore as they had a very bitter taste. I told him that was because they were Manchester & Madrid flavoured. He he

There were twice as many Rangers fans (150K) in Seville the other week, as there were RS fans (70K apparently) in Paris. There wasn't one word of any trouble in Seville!

Just saying like!

Except for the punch ups instigated by the Germans, Rob! The blame game has began, but if you've got loads of people blocking the turnstiles because their counterfeit tickets won't work, then everything else, comes after this.

I honestly think another ridiculous VAR decision cost Liverpool last night, because they might have been better going in at half time a goal down.

Aaahahahahahahaha they're whinging already. Replay the final. No mention of Madrid having problems is there. Trouble follows these wankers round like a bad smell and the reason for that is because they're a disgrace. Someone needs to stand up to that. If you got tear gassed ask yourselves why, don't just blame the police. After Hillsborough and the PR campaign by FSG the media are shit scarred of Big Red. Using pictures of kids crying now. Oh it must have been all the West Ham and Chelsea fans from the NF that turned up to stoke the French bizzies into tear gassing them. Kopites are the problem and always have been. Don't let them get away with it again.

Failed to beat any of the other top 4 clubs in the league this season, didn't win the title, didn't win the Champions League. Michael Owen “they've proven to be the best team in Europe”. I'll have what he's drinking.

Just on Michael Owen….wait to the end
https://youtu.be/WqOxNspUPyE

Kopite behaviour.

The diversion from getting beat has started but I don't get the counterfeit ticket excuse for crowd issues. Surely only the club should be selling tickets in which case counterfeits can't figure!

The police getting stuck in is a case of Kopite reputation preceeding them no sympathy for the miscreants at all.

Joe Royle - Derby Record P4 W2 D2 L0
21/11/1994 - Goodison Park W 2-0
24/1/1995 - Anfield D 0-0
18/11/1995 - Anfield W 2-1
16/4/1996 - Goodison Park D 1-1

Carlo Ancelotti Derby Record P4 W2 D2 L0
21/6/20 - Goodison Park D 0-0
17/10/20 - Goodison Park D 2-2
20/2/21 - Anfield W 2-0
28/5/22 - Paris W 1-0

I've said it before and I'll say it again - while last season was frustrating, it was also oddly hyper-competitive. The 59 points Carlo got us, which barely resulted in a top half finish, would have gotten us 6th this year.

At least we can all enjoy a close season relatively free of non stop RS bullshit. This last week was torture. I was dreading 'One Night in Paris' the movie, the stage musical, anime cartoon etc. etc. Thank you Carlo for delivering your second big win for us Blues - and a nod to Pep too for preventing an absolute nightmare end to this season.

Shame about the Paris police's unprovoked gassing of Kopites, especially as they have never, not ever, at any time done anything at all to cause problems at a European cup match. You'll never wait alone eh. I trust the Norwegian ambassador has lodged a formal complaint.

This is exactly what happens when an extra 40,000 TICKETLESS fans rush to a stadium where only 20,000 tickets been allocated to each set of fans! Ask yourself, why doesn't it happen to other clubs? Was there any issues with Madrid fans? The answer is no!

That's telling, Bill @194. We were in with a shout for top 4 last season until fairly late on. It just collapsed beneath us for a variety of reasons, not least the call of Madrid obviously.

The ending soured everything and coloured our views, or at least it coloured mine.

A shame.

LFC have become the privileged victims of the English game.
The Europeans don't care. They don't police to serve over there. They police to maintain order.

The scum with no tickets and no respect for those who died in previous disasters now have the tears of children to be ashamed of. But, of course, they feel no shame.

Listen to the UK media making endless excuses. Pathetic.

I'm glad they lost but let's not get too saintly about everything else that went on. If we ever get to finals again, we could be in exactly the same position. There's lots of blame here and nobody will accept their share; they are all desperate to pile it on someone else. Nobody should be getting pepper-sprayed or tear-gassed at football these days.

Uefa couldn't care less about supporters, only interested in money and power. Right now, I am sure they will be holding urgent meetings to save face, not find out what they did wrong.

French FA and police, just like Wembley, can't organise a major football match and so, shouldn't get them. If you have a strong enough outer cordon checking for valid tickets, all else should be simple.

Liverpool have a criminal element to their support but that's not unique. They should do more to stop ticketless fans travelling and stop excusing bad behaviour – some even justifying climbing over the fence!

And both clubs should get more tickets – at least 40% of capacity to each club but Uefa couldn't care less about supporters – just like the Premier League.

I'm sorry for the fans with genuine tickets who didn't get in. That's not right and let's not take pleasure in it or the 'bitter blue' tag sounds justified.

I think that's very fair, Peter @198.

I'm sure there were many factors involved but the French Police are outrageous and I have first hand reports from RS friends which make it clear - and I trust them - that the Gendarmerie battered and gassed anything in their path.

They've been doing it since May 1968 so they've had practice.

There's an element of truth in what you say Peter; all clubs have their idiots. But they seem to have them on a grander scale.

To counter what you say, many ticketless fans travel to be part of the occasion. I've done it at Wembley, but I never attempted to enter the stadium and never would. I go and find a drinking hole to be amongst other like minded fans.

Why is it repeatedly them should be the question? Other clubs don't seem to have this drama despite the fact we all have ticketless fans travelling.

Whatever the truth(s), the media effort to distance any blame from fans is something else. I agree we have our idiots too, but would we get the same media protection? Not a chance.

Extremely insensitive to have a celebration parade on the day of Heysel.

Given their hatred of their own country tho, guessing next weekend wouldn't have worked for them either.

No words.

Yes, other clubs' fans find themselves in this situation, but nobody else makes quite such a fuss about it.

They are the perennial victims, it's in their DNA and is a prominent part of the entire RS culture. And as they make it so much a part of their story, it seems to attract new chapters all the time.

I suppose they attract more fans, including more idiots, because they are successful, Danny. I wonder if they have really got a larger proportion? Hard to assess that one – please tick the box if you are an idiot.

The ticketless fans travelling just to be in the host city when the game is on seems to be a relatively new thing. Nothing wrong with it, and I'm sure the local traders love it. But I can't remember fans doing that back in the 80s.

I think fans travelled without tickets then with the intention of getting one or getting in somehow. (A fiver to the turnstile operator got me into the 1985 FA Cup Final – waste of money!)

This element, going with the intention of getting in, by any means, seems to be large scale and more violent now, as it was at Wembley last year. It's going to affect everyone, as British clubs will all be tarred with the same brush once again.

With one club tarring us with that brush more than others Peter.

They've done it once and we suffered more than most.

They've done this before (Athens).

There is one common denominator, yet the media rallies around to protect them.

Hypothetically, we'd have been lynched in the same scenario.

That's true, Danny.
The behaviour of some Liverpool fans is utterly predictable.
even given that, I think the bigger issue here is the total incompetence and negligence of UEFA, French FA and police.

Peter, why were the Madrid fans not targeted by the riot police?
Is it perhaps because they waited in an orderly fashion to enter the stadium with real tickets?

You have to look at the FA and their unholy alliance with Sky.
They are out to protect the "brand" that is the EPL.
Any slur or admission of guilt may have repercussions on the "brand". It is why they get away with murder... no pun intended... why do you think redshite and Utd ex players abound on Sky shows? Cameo appearances by other clubs players is the norm.

I don't know, reputation, bias, anti-English feeling? Some of what they did seemed to be unprovoked.
And if they had done their job properly, checking tickets away from the gates, they wouldn't have needed the riot police.

Fair one Peter, but you're making excuses for them.

I travel without tickets but I won't try to get into the stadium.

There are many contributing factors, but they cannot and should not be excused from blame, which is what the momentum is trying to do.

They played their part, just as they did in 1985. Always them. No-one else seems to have an issue even though we all have travelling ticketless fans.

I understand the police concentrated on the RS fans from the word go. I hate them but let's not make dickheads of ourselves.

The presence of riot police was smart and proactive. If people had been seriously hurt then the organisers would be criticised for not being prepared.

I'm definitely not seeking to make excuses for the people who approached the stadium without tickets intent on getting in or who climbed the fences.
I just think there is blame to be apportioned in several directions here (and all of them will try to deflect it elsewhere).
My sympathy is with those who were behaving, had tickets and didn't get in.

Surely the blame lies with UAFA,and the owners of the stadium. This is not the only full house at this venue and there should have been some sort of filtration barriers, prior to reaching the gate areas where only the correct ticket holders could pass.
Anyone who has attended a game in Europe is aware of the heavy handed police force with some worst than others.
Klopp should be sanctioned by UAFA for encouraging ticket less supporters to attend.
My only sympathy is for those supporters with tickets, and young children, that with these heavy handed police tactics had to suffer because of the brain dead morons, that seem to follow this club.
There are some genuine supporters that have followed the club since the 50s but it seems the more successful they get the more unsavory, and arrogant the support becomes. Same as SKY Sports.

So the French police are notorious for using aggressive policing?
Fare enough. However it would appear they only acted aggressively with one set of fans in this particular instance?

Also the local criminal gangs in Paris only appear to have attacked and robbed Liverpool fans?
Criminal gangs with principles hey? Don't rob the Spanish.
Amazing really.

Phil (193),

You left one of Carlo's derby games out,

Liverpool Reserves 1 Everton 0, FA Cup game, one of the most embarrassing results in Everton's history.

I expect that the Italian relatives and friends of the victims of Heysel are happy that Carlo won for them yesterday.

Peter @ 215, I agree.

I think we all know there are plenty of certain types. Decent people too.

Have to say those scenes of piling in over the walls are bad news in light of history, whatever the excuse. However we need to see if more info comes out, to see what may have led to or exacerbated this.

I don't know in this case, but I do know the whole safety/security thing is often unwieldy and obstructive, with the wrong balance of staff/action versus speed. Just got back online so haven't looked yet - play-off first!

You do have to wonder why there appeared to be no problems with regard to the Real Madrid supporters.
I wonder whether the rs's insistence on considering themselves "different" means they're treated differently?
I mean, they boo the national anthem, they boo the Champions League theme song.
They claim they're not English but Scouse.
They cause trouble wherever they go and never accept any responsibility whatsoever.
So are they paying the price for their own stance on who they are?

Hey BW, I've lost your contact information. I've got something to send you.

BBC Report = 'Champions League Final: I have asthma and was tear gassed twice - Liverpool fan'.

I feel genuinely sorry for her if that's the case. But spare a thought for the poor RS squad, 80% of whom are chronic asthmatics and require special medication courtesy of Mr. Klopp. Could it be that the hint of gas adversely affected the team's performance by inflaming their asthma?

If so, then the result should be immediately overturned and the match replayed at Analfield where there are specialists in asthma treatment just in case.

Just kidding ;-)

Mike@222.
I'll send it to you via the admins Mike if that's ok mate?

Ticketless fans rush the gates for yet another Champs league final, all the media not their fault, City coached bricked, jovial fans, 39 innocent fans rushed and met their deaths, not their fault, stadium was crumbling.

Everton have a pitch invasion after the match, big media out pour, even Klopp jumping on it about the Everton pitch invasion, the very person who stormed the pitch during a Derby game, he got lost in the moment, well that's ok then.

All the out pour that was blasted across the media, about Everton fans having a peaceful celebration on the pitch, not one single person was injured. Yet we got very bad press over it.

To hold the parade itself on the Hysel anniversary says it all, absolutely no shame at all.

On a final note you will hear no team will get closer to the quad without actually winning it, in the same instance, no other team will come even closer to winning nothing by the nearest of two penalty misses.

BW 221. Very good point.

That would be great, Brian. Lyndon has my email address.

Reports in Liverpool Echo that Lime Street Station was closed early last night due to crowd disorder amongst Liverpool fans. Can only assume as in Paris this was the fault of the police and football authorities?

In all seriousness Barry @228 I'm not going to blame RS for the early closure of Lime St. This is down to the railway company not being prepared for crowds. Probably the same scenario today when they have their parade.

What? The trains didn't turn up either, Barry? Richard again?

When I was a lot younger I got into that stadium for the opening game of the 1998 World Cup tournament, between Brazil and Scotland, without a ticket.

They never checked tickets away from the gate then, because there was actually 4 or 5 ticket checks once you got inside the stadium, and this made it very difficult to get in.

It sounds like the French Police have decided to close a lot of these turnstiles, making it a lot easier for them to Police everything, and it also sounds like they were very brutal, but they've already got every excuse they need because of those alleged counterfeit tickets.

The French hate us, and were obviously just waiting for any excuse, but now it just feels like the match got cancelled, because of the behavior of the French police, with nobody really talking about the game.

When did football change so that if you accidentally do something wrong on a football pitch, you now get away with it because it's not what you meant to do? I'm obviously talking about the VAR decision not to allow Madrid a goal in the first half, which is something I couldn't get my head around, simply because this has never been how football works to me?

Tony #231

I have French friends and they don't hate us. They do think we're bonkers for leaving the EU, though!

The CRS (riot police) are armed thugs in uniform and they hate everyone. I've been tear-gassed by them and can assure you it's not a pleasant experience.

Peter #211,

There were checks before the turnstiles. The problem seemed to be that there were so many blag tickets that the police and staff decided to funnel the fans into one check area and this led to the huge delays.

Meanwhile, there didn't apear to be a fake ticket problem at the Real Madrid end and no reported incidents.

I also think we are bonkers for leaving the EU, Bill, especially now we have got a remainer as our prime minister, and he hasn't got a truthful bone in his body.

It wasn't me, it was the other three, and suddenly the game is an afterthought.

If the RS were treated badly by the French police and the Real fans weren't, then it's to do with the RS reputation for causing trouble.

If 90% of non RS fans on Twitter are saying “always the victim, never to blame” then it's due to the RS reputation for moaning and deflecting.

I feel for the fans who were tear gassed and I feel for the fans who were kettled for hours outside the ground, but the blame lies with the generations of RS who have earned this terrible reputation, and with the likes of Klopp who encourage it.

Won't it be great that our future trophy parades can end at our new stadium!

I love the positivity, John, but it's got me thinking about the jinx, for some unknown reason.

Tony I've looked into the future …. Both are going to happen …. New stadium and trophies

New stadium.

10th League title.

6th FA Cup.

We finally win a League Cup.

It's coming.

The RS, have had their final, some got there, some didn't, but they lost the game.

The result is now history, and by the way their old boy media hype and the clueless media staff with no clue of football history, it's become a travesty.

No, fair result, but more important let's focus our energy on Everton, and take the unequivocal force of Evertonians to drive the club onto a better tomorrow.

It will take time, but the last few months of last season, proved the Everton 12 th Man, to be the driving force of the club.

Let's hope the squad at last recognises and start being consistent and get some old fashioned fighting spirit and pride and belief in EFC.

We will focus on Everton Paul, but this is a thread to talk on the Champions's League and I can't leave this for now.

Why do I pay my TV Licence? The BBC just took emotional based journalism to a new depth. The first 11 minutes on the half hour focussed on them and how badly treated the were.

Shambolic organisation. Aggressive Policing. Even the Mayor of Liverpool was in on the act. Why, Andy Burnham, did you go to Manchester? No mention of fans with fake tickets and those without trying to enter the stadium contributing to the situation other than a very political body swerve statement of "fans who didn't have the right tickets". Please. Unless you acknowledge your own behaviour and contribution, you'll just keep blaming everyone else and do the same again.

Repeat of Athens. It's always them and they are always defended. Guarantee the headlines would be very different if it was anyone else.

I have very close family members who are unholy, but as a collective fan base they absolutely make me cringe and my blood boil.

Why is the media ignoring Klopp encouraging them to go to Paris without tickets to create an atmosphere?

His words have clearly impacted this situation and he should be called out for it.

Newspaper Headline:-

'Are Jurgen Klopp's lot a team of nearly men? Manchester City, Chelsea, Tottenham and now Real Madrid have worked Liverpool out. . . this great side is in danger of going down in history as underachievers after Champions League final defeat'

Three finals no goals in normal play. I wonder why, any suggestions.

Did anyone hear John Aldridge before the game saying Madrid fans were plastic fans, he was going on about flags and how wonderful the RS fans are and according to him the result was a forgone conclusion, he is a gobshite

I've said before Mick, when I lived in Woolton, he lived around the corner and I often bumped into him in the local off licence on Hunts Cross Avenue at the bottom of our road.

My family knew his from the Garston Tenements.

Arrogant is how I would describe him.

I didn't know where to put this piece of news about the sad passing yesterday morning of one of my favourite sports personalities the great Lester Piggot one of the best jockeys of all time and I think he will be always remembered by racing fans everywhere for his incredible ability in the saddle especially at Epsom home of the Derby.

Lester also had a wicked sense of humour and after one race riding for the owner Alan Ball, another favourite of mine and most on here,Alan rushed to get Lester opinion of his horse, which finished out of the first three, “ Will it make anything” Alan asked him eagerly “ Yes, glue” was Lester's two word reply.

I think the racing world will be saddened by Lester's demise, a wonderful sportsman and a great character.

Danny (244), I remember Aldridge mostly getting fined for not paying his TV license, the story was in the Liverpool Echo, not only a snide but a “ brass hinge” as well.

Ian @242, it's absolutely incredible that it isn't being spoken about. The media adore Klopp, he can do absolutely no wrong.

How he gets away with it amazes me. He whinges, he intimidates, he moans at refs, he invades the pitch, but for some reason he's seen as some kind of "decent" fella?

He very clearly encouraged fans without tickets to go to Paris, and the excuse being used by the French police is that there were too many fans with fake tickets or no tickets and it caused them problems. But I haven't seen anyone in the media call this out.

Carlo has got the moves, looks like he enjoyed the result
Hala Madrid

Link

Still can't leave it. At least the French have called them out for their contribution to the situation as our media appears reluctant to do so.

That stadium and the police that police it regularly hosts major international football matches and 6 nations fixtures without any problems.

There is a common denominator.

James (248), Carlo has slowly but surely extracted his revenge for Istanbul, proving that it is definitely a dish best served cold.

I finally forgave Carlo for leaving Everton the way he did after Real Madrid beat Liverpool in the Champions League Final. I would shake hands with him now.

One thing I wonder about is the strange problems with the tickets at the Liverpool end of the ground. It seemed to me more like an IT problem, as proper tickets were refused and the gates remained closed for a long time.

Earlier in the week there were big IT problems with Easyjet with many people finding holidays and (flights from Ireland to Liverpool) amongst the 300 or so cancellations.

Also last week major problems were reported across the health service in Greater Manchester.

With all this in mind I recalled that this Final was to have been played in St Petersburg. Could there have been a Russian cyber attack?

The UK is to the fore in arming Ukraine, whilst Spain are out of the picture. After all, our government would not like to admit such things in this propaganda war.

From The Guardian

France's interior minister has said he regrets the “disorganised welcome” Liverpool fans received at the Champions league final on Saturday but blamed counterfeit ticket sales on an “industrial scale” for chaotic scenes at the Stade de France.

“We deplore a lack of organisation in the way the English fans were received” Gérald Darmanin told a press conference on Monday. But he said 30,000 to 40,000 Liverpool fans had turned up for the game either without tickets or with counterfeits.

As a Downing St spokesperson described the scenes on Saturday as “deeply upsetting and concerning” and urged a full investigation, Darmanin said the fact that Liverpool supporters had been issued with paper rather than digital tickets had enabled “massive, industrial-scale and organised fraud with fake tickets”.

About 70% of tickets presented by about 62,000 Liverpool fans were fake, the French interior minister said, and whereas 97% of Real Madrid fans had made it to their seats by the original 9pm kick-off time, only 50% of Liverpool supporters had reached their stands by then. Liverpool received an allocation of 19,618 tickets.

“Manifestly, this kind of incident only seems to happen with certain English clubs” Darmanin said, noting that there had been difficulties at the Liverpool-Tottenham Champions League final in Madrid in 2019 and at matches at Wembley.

"Disorganized welcome" - haha! How thoroughly contrived. Straight from the slimy imagination of a $300 per hour globalist-level PR consultant.

"Darmanin said the fact that Liverpool supporters had been issued with paper rather than digital tickets had enabled 'massive, industrial-scale and organised fraud with fake tickets' ".

Nice opportunism to bedevil the concept of physical tickets. How about we fix this with mandatory digital IDs, finger prints and iris scans to attend football matches, that would be great. Not to get everyone on digital IDs of course, simply to make things safer and "Better".

Guess modern technology can't provide equipment for rapidly checking the validity of tickets, like say, banknotes.

Reading that Guardian report from Brian @258, I have to ask again why the media isn't calling out Klopp for telling ticketless RS to go to Paris?

Not sure about that one, Michael.

In theory, thousands of extra tourists descending on Paris is a good thing for Paris, if it doesn't go off. The day out is also not bad compensation for decent, loyal fans that couldn't get tickets. It's a well-trodden path for cup finals here.

I'd be loathe to start limiting people's movement. Reality needs to be considered though; no easy answer. It would help it we had access to accurate figures of how many had fake tickets, how many tried to bale over the wall with no tickets, and how many sat peacefully in bars and cafes away from the melee.

I agree it's probably not Klopp's place to promote it however.

Have to say as much as I enjoyed them getting beat it's a long time I've read a thread with as much distaste.

It's quite clear from social media footage and eyewitness reports where the fault lies. The ineptitude of UEFA and the French authorities.

The establishment blaming fans. Where have we heard that before!

Seriously we are better than that.

I also understand a significant presence of local thugs and thieves was a big factor. A complete shambles.

Graham - why does the blame have to be binary? Could it be possible that a variety of factors led to the situation that occurred on Saturday?

Poor policing and organisation
A perception (misplaced or not) that English fans and Liverpool fans in particular are trouble when abroad based on previous incidents
The decision to issue paper tickets
Not enough tickets given to the clubs with so many reserved for corporate tickets
Thousands of ticketless fans congregating outside the ground encouraged by Klopp
Local youths trying to bunk in and stiring up trouble outside
Loads of people having blag tickets and trying to get in this causing backlogs

Any or all of these factors could have contributed to what happened.

Chris,

Because I think it's fairly clear here what happened. There are hundreds of eye-witness accounts attesting to the dreadful organisation and heavy-handed policing.

I've no time for Liverpool Football Club but in this case I can't see they carry much blame and some of the snide comments in this thread are, as I said, distasteful.

Glad they got bummed in the actual game though.

Chris, you beat me to it.

There are a number of factors which together resulted in the outcome. It's like an accident investigation which invariably finds that a number of linked occurrences or situations combine to cause the accident.

The French authorities are undoubtedly at fault for their poor preparation, organisation, and their actions in dealing with "the problem". If what's been said, that there was ticket fraud on an "industrial scale" is true, then those trying to enter the ground with fake tickets have added, if not caused, the problem.

I can't help though comparing what went on at one end of the ground to what went on at the other. It would appear that the Real Madrid fans caused, and suffered, no problems whatsoever.

The question could be asked, "Why is that the case?"

Brian

Again it's fairly clear, they were treated differently. They were not corralled into a ridiculous small number of checkpoints to deal with the number of people entering the ground.

The ‘industrial scale' ticket fraud is only coming from the French authorities. Personally I take it with a massive pinch of salt. Otherwise there would've been tens of thousands refused entry and left outside the stadium. It didn't happen.

This probably rides the edges of likelihood as a suggestion – but were the Real Madrid fans issued physical tickets, or the same proportion of them? Was there equal facility for checking validity of tickets at all points of the stadium?

Whatever happened, ain't no way there was massive fraud among one set of fans and zero fraud among the others.

Graham #267.

Liverpool were issued with circa 19k tickets. There were far more Liverpool fans than circa 19k around that stadium. Some Liverpool supporters have already said there were Liverpool supporters in the ground without seats blocking the view of those that had seats.

Yes, they were treated differently. Perhaps, just perhaps, they behaved differently.

Will, it has been suggested that the vast majority of Real Madrid fans did not have physical tickets, but digital ones.

Graham Mockford @ 262 - So are you saying we shouldn't Mock the afflicted?

Will, it has been suggested that the vast majority of Madrid fans did not have physical tickets, but digital ones.

Thanks, Brian.

I assumed it unlikely to differ, but maybe not. Would be good to get the confirmed truth on that - followed by a reason as to why. There are many assumptions that could be made of such a thing, from simple irregular operation, digital situation in both countries, to other more imaginative ideas.

I agree that there needs to be many different things to go wrong in order to achieve an issue that results in the kind of scenes witnessed in Paris last Saturday.

However, it is clear that the French authorities must have read the British newspapers in the weeks prior to the final and believed that due to all of those pitch invasions and the reactions to them by the media and pundits alike, that the bad old days of violence and hooliganism had indeed returned to English football, unfortunately the innocents were once again punished for the bad behaviour of others.

In these days of vigilance in relation to possible terrorist attacks, you would think that UEFA, FA and the clubs both hosting and competing in Europe on a regular basis would be able to manage a relatively simple task of getting fans into an all-seater stadium, in an organised and civilised manner.

iI they can do it for pop-concerts and the likes why can't they do it for football fans?

I suspect that the root of much of this lies with money, either people on the inside trying to make a few quid at the fans' expense by forging or touting tickets. Or a variety of people unwilling to spend a proportionate amount on stewarding and other helpful assets that would alleviate many of the issues that arise with a large crowd of people intent on seeing their favourites.

Graham (262),

I think you're absolutely right. Just look at their desperate efforts to shift blame. They are embarrassed by their failure and incapable of an honest admission, like most large organisations and authorities.

And for once, although it goes against our preferred narrative, (hesitating) the majority of Liverpool fans (fasten your seat belts) could justifiably claim (what am I saying) to be (help) the victims.

(Puts on tin helmet and dives behind sofa)

Brian 269

You just have to read first-hand accounts many by journalists all corroborating the chaos and disorganisation of the authorities.

And that is English, French and Spanish journalists. No-one with an axe to grind but just giving factual accounts many with supporting photographic evidence.

Sometimes you have to take your scarf off and accept the bleeding obvious.

Barry, good point about the preceding weeks, the pitch invasions.

Combine that with a bit of previous "Your reputation precedes you" thinking, it's another thing to add to the mix. Many factors at play here. Though as you allude... why? There is no excuse really, if someone with the reach is allowed to properly oversee proceedings.

There are countless examples of similar sporting events going off with no problems at all. Therefore, the problems can be identified if the will is there to do so. We'll see how that plays out.

Has anyone congratulated don Carlo yet? I don't think the club have.

David:

Link

Blue Cityzen
1 day ago
All the way to Paris
To end up in defeat
Crying in the stands
And tear-gassed in the street
The treble dreams are over
You'll have to stick with two
City are the Champions
And there's nothing you can do
Allez Allez Allez

Thanks, Will. I mean no public congrats on the Everton websites.

I guessed you might, David, it was more for interest really, just showing that some had contacted him.

I'm not sure the club formally congratulating him would be the er, done thing. Independent sites might.

Graham #276.

And I have seen evidence and heard first-hand reports of things of a not-so-innocent nature occurring, so drop the "scarf" comments.

We disagree obviously but I'm not making snide comments to you, so don't make them to me.

Brian

Wasn't a snide comment, I'm suggesting if that had happened to Evertonians you would have a different point of view.

I'm saying regardless of the team involved the evidence is already pretty overwhelming the Liverpool fans were generally treated poorly made worse by the authorities trying to apportion blame on them.

I as said earlier, we've seen it before.

Like all major undesired events, whether they be accidents or events like the scenes in Paris, there are always a number of contributory factors that fail to avoid, prevent, control, or mitigate the situation.

The reporting of it by the British media is different from the reporting of it by the French media, and the truth will, as always, require a proper and thorough investigation. Outside of such an investigation, most of the comment on causes has been and still is largely conjectural and biased.

Let's wait for a proper investigation. The current rhetoric from the media is, as usual, unhelpful.

Amen, Stan.

They were given 19,000 tickets. The ground at their end was half-full half-an-hour before kick- off.

Outside it was estimated there were 20,000 fans waiting to get in.

Do the maths.

For anybody that wanted to see Paris then it's open every day of the year. Even if the supporters want to be with their fellow supporters for the day, then great, go along have a good time and all that stuff but by heading to the stadium in the hope of bunking in or getting a spare ticket is just giving true paid-up ticket holders problems.

I even understand it from a young lad's perspective but given the history of what's gone on with this club they should have let the genuine ticket holders only head to the ground. They just ignored past disasters by pumping up the numbers at the stadium. Klopp didn't help the cause.

I know people who got in without tickets and it pisses me off even though I fully understand how I was at that age. I went to all of our Wembley finals in the 80s and never failed to get in despite only once having a ticket. I had a ticket for Rotterdam but that was not needed as the Police just opened the big gates and everybody walked in. Who remembers this by the way ? It could have been dangerous.

Times and past events have changed things though and people should know better. For a start, English supporters are not very welcome by the general public of many cities around Europe. We are are not talking Rugby supporters who mix very well and sings songs together – we are talking about a sport that still has the ugly violent streak when supporters come together and with this in mind the police and authorities now simply look for excuses to be heavy-handed. It's actually embarrassing to see hordes of supporters pissed up in a beautiful foreign city. Maybe I'm being a bit jealous there but you get my point.

Maybe they need to set up a two-legged final until they come up with a better solution than to heap trouble on the likes of Paris etc.

Why all the fake tickets?

Because the makers know that can sell them, aided and abetted by the joint decision to issue the rs with paper tickets not digital ones.
Because the buyers know that as it gets nearer to KO, the more people turn up, the more chance there is of waving a half decent copy and being waved through.

But it can happen with digital tickets too.

Now I don't know what the turnstiles even look like in Paris.
But I do know what they look like at the Gabba (42,000) and Lang Park, nee SunCorp (52,000)
It's done on a QR code thing, either printed out or on your phone.
They're supposed to scan them with, in the above cases, a hand held scanner.
It's much cheaper for Stadiums to have digital tickets on your phone than a fancy, near banknote quality 'paper' ticket.
The stadium / UEFA have to hold their hands up for that.

I had my phone held up in my hand and a QR thing on my screen, I got waved through at 10 mins to KO.
Trouble was, in the bright light I had the Gabba QR thing for The 1st day of the Ashes, not the SunCorp QR thing for The All Blacks.

Sometimes it's (inadvertently) just that easy

Both the rs hordes  And the forgers know it.
They play the percentages, that in a big rush 10mins or whatever before KO, the gate person may have 'eyes on' your QR code, but, in the interests of getting everybody in - won't actually scan it = result.

It also costs to have Underground Station type physical barriers.

Been said before - any problems at the Madrid end???
No??
How strange.

The French Police often seem to like nothing more than bashing a few heads...and its a bonus to them if they're English.
Then It could then be said if you take most of the rs associated factors out, the set up at the other end worked perfectly.

Blame on both sides.
Both sides have massive media machines to deflect the blame.

What will be the result of the inevitable enquiry?
The political Agenda down the track will govern that.

The rs will just about manage to slide out from under - as per usual

What do Madrid have? They have the Cup and tales to tell of French and English stupidity and Carlo's eyebrow.

My last one on this as I don't want to come across as being controversial or cousin bashing. And I have plenty of them.

Okay, the authorities should be called into question. The organisers should be called into question.

But despite that, the independent investigation that says it will look at the role of all parties concerned needs to also take into account the Grizzly Bear in the room. All parties involved.

No mention of that on the media or those who were there being interviewed.

They played their part. They contributed to the situation. But they live in denial and will never admit it.

Bit late on this but loving the fact that Liverpool have ended up with nothing of what they really wanted this season. The Champions League, Premier League and us being relegated were something many of their fans had been smugly assuming they would be enjoying by now.

Unlucky haha! Carl Ancelotti may have pulled off his greatest stroke as Everton manager last weekend!

And they ended up without the much-vaunted 'quadruple' which they/the media had been going on about for months.

If us staying up was out of this world amazing, them getting beat at the weekend and also losing the title was a nice extra.

Paul 291, got to admit I've enjoyed it, particularly the parade at the weekend. They must have thought they had the Champions League in the bag. Instead, they had to smile and parade the League ccup for a few miles. Also enjoyed the attempt by fans to pass off photos of the 2019 parade as 2022.

You've got to ask only one question. What exactly kicked it all off?

I mean, the French police would not have started pepper spraying fans without good reason. I doubt very much the RS fans were all queuing up in an orderly manner as the kick-off time approached, so something must have forced the French police to take action?

Oh yeah, (hundreds or thousands, who knows) people with fake tickets then got all stroppy because those fake tickets didn't get them into the stadium, thus preventing those fans with genuine tickets from also entering the stadium.

We've seen videos on the BBC and SSN of fans scaling fences to gain entry into the stadium. There's a picture on Twitter going round of two sons boasting about bunking in with their dad. No doubt there are many more such like pictures etc, but all that scummy club, the BBC and SSN want is any action taken against Uefa and the French authorities.

Actually, thinking about it, it must be Uefa's fault, after all, they must have printed all these fake tickets and then give them all to the RS, as I've not heard of any fake tickets within the Real Madrid fans. Shame on you, Uefa!!

Finally, everyone is going on about how close they were to winning everything, but they were only two penalty shootouts from winning nothing… Shame on you, Kepa Arrizabalaga and Mason Mount.

And before anyone says it, yes, I wouldn't mind winning two trophies via penalty shootouts.

Danny

It just depends what you mean by ‘they'. Were the some fans without tickets? yes. Will some of those fans tried to bunk in? yes.

However the vast majority were decent match going fans despite their allegiance. Did the eight year old kid deserve to be pepper sprayed? Did fans with genuine tickets deserve not to get in? Did fans deserve to be kettled and made to wait for hours in a potentially dangerous situation?

The answer is pretty obvious and again I challenge anyone to want to blame fans to switch the situation and ask yourself if it was Evertonians would you have the same view?

Rob, the French police don't need an excuse to kick-off.

I don't disagree with your balanced view Graham, which is why I've been careful to use the word contribute throughout and acknowledge what the French police can be like. We saw that at Lille and my son got caught up in that over the top / go hard early reaction. But in the town centre, not at the stadium.

It's being ignored that many (yes, not all or the majority) Liverpool fans contributed to the situation. Just as they did in Athens.

Call me bitter, call me paranoid, but I genuinely think it is a different headline if that's Everton or any other club for that matter.

Graham #294,

Would Evertonians have done the same thing? We'll never know until we reach our next cup final.

Okay, I know back in the '80s we saw and read of blues bunking into Wembley and at Rotterdam, but don't forget, these were stadiums at the time that had large terracing behind each goal. You could go and stand anywhere without fear of being ejected because you were in someone's seat.

Where exactly were these RS fans going to sit in an all-seater stadium, knowing full well they were sitting in a seat on a fake ticket? Yes, we probably all do have some sympathy for fans with genuine tickets who didn't get in, or missed a large chunk of the game, but don't blame the authorities for that, blame those hundreds or thousands of fans with fake tickets. Blame those fans who turned up without any kind of ticket whatsoever, whose sole aim was to try and probably bunk in.

We saw something very similar at the European Championships final last summer when England played Italy. Fans getting into Wembley without a ticket. Uefa have taken action and forced England to play behind closed doors, as well as a hefty fine. Let's see Uefa take similar action against the RS, maybe even ban them from Europe for a couple of years.

I have no love for the other lot or their fans, but in today's BBC website, reports of what happened post game have come out and should be read. It's not just disgraceful, it's terrifying and a warning to ANY football or sports fan about attending major sports events in Paris.

Champions League Final: Harrowing accounts of post-match violence spark debate

In particular, it should be noted that the videos shown around Saint Denis in Paris, show gangs of men in their hundreds, terrorizing supporters. Criminals. With police unable or unwilling to prevent it.

Forget who the supporters were for a second and see it as it was, gangs intent on violence and mayhem, robbery and such. Men, not kids.

Prior to coming back to New Zealand, I lived in France, happened to find myself on a trip to Paris in the same area. It is one of the most run down, poor and scary places I never expected to see.

French police had no hope, no chance, but supporters were left to defend or run. I wouldn't bother with the police at the upcoming Olympics just bring in the military.

Christine.

Local scals or gang members mugging and terrorising fans is a separate issue – albeit just as serious obviously. It's the "them – never us" attitude of LFC and our media protecting them to the hilt which is disgusting.

The anniversary of Heysel, 29 June – a case in point; what were they doing on that day this Sunday gone?!

Brian, I get that, but this was on a scale far beyond local scallies, and reported in the French media embedded video Le Parisien, I posted not as a sop to the other lot of supporters, as bad as they are, but for the level of uncontrolled violence and the utter lack of protection.

If you haven't done so, watch the video, no supporters should be left in that. It's not two rival sets of supporters having a go or taunting each other into fights, this is co-ordinated gang attacks at a level unheard of.

That area of Saint Denis is indeed one of the most run-down and violent places in the whole of Europe. It's absolutely full of delinquent youth who have no other thing on their mind than to beg, borrow or steal with the latter being their favored way of survival.

The Police are genuinely scared of them for fear of the backlash and maybe that's what made them so edgy.

It would have been terrifying for those supporters but, once again, the added numbers of them only added to the chaos in and around the ground. It makes you wonder why they would build such a lovely stadium in such a poor area.

I went to a football match in Rio at the Maracana many years ago between Flamengo and an Argentinian team. It was a night game and what I saw that night did shock me and sounds similar to the events in Paris.

There were gangs in hundreds just ambushing anybody who was wearing decent clothes and any jewellery etc and completely stripping them down to just the pants they had on. These were local gangs from the favelas in Rio and the Police I saw in pairs were just too scared to get involved so just left them to it.

I got out of there sharpish knowing my face stood out but I would never wear or carry anything of value in that city because everyone gets mugged at some stage in their lives there.

As far as I'm concerned, any European final should now be a two-legged affair so we never have to witness another hooligan element pissed up and causing havoc in some of the world's most beautiful cities. I may just be saying that because we are so far away from being in a European final but it's always going to happen and should the locals really have to suffer this just for bars cafes and restaurants to make a bit of extra cash?

Peter, that's a very good point.

In a preseason friendly, in the summer of 2002 v Anderlecht away, it was urban warfare before and after the game, and the police went to town with water cannons and tear gas and the baton. One of the longest days.

But let's focus on Everton, and let's hope the transfer window and preseason coaching and actually working freely for a couple of months can get Everton back in tune for a consistent season of good football, avoiding the dirge of last season.

UTFT!

In the '70s or '80s, going away in England always had its moments of danger, if not from ambushes, then the local police. And that was if you were stone-cold sober and had plenty of time to get in the stadium.

I went to Rotterdam and had a ticket. When the 6 of us got back (to London where we lived then), we all slept for about 16 hours, wrecked.

A few days later, it was the FA Cup Final at Wembley. None of us had tickets and we had spent our money in Holland. Three went anyway and all paid a fiver to the turnstile man and were in. The rest of us didn't want to take a chance on missing the game.

The difference between going away from home in England and overseas is obvious. You stand out like a sore thumb. The local scalls see you as fair game and you will get "taxed" if you are not mob-handed.

Football was high-jacked by the middle classes after "Fever Pitch" and the all- seater stadiums and increased prices. Sky just added to the costs of everything.

The retired, the comfortably off, the family groups are now as used to flying out to a nice European game, staying in a hotel, and having a nice meal in a restaurant. Just like when you go to the theatre.

Now call me old-fashioned, but I would never have taken a kid, or a child with a disability or my wife to any rough place – especially abroad. When you don't speak the language, don't know the area, and are at the wrong end of heavy-handed police or local gangs, then you should give it a swerve.

The rats in Saint Denis were taking what they could, just like the little fuckers around Goodison "looking after" cars on matchday. I once came across a two Evertonians from Burnley who had been robbed on Scottie Road, money and even their jackets.

The bourgeois fans got a bit of a shock. I heard former Tory Minister, Michael Howard, moaning how him and his wife got kettled. Wouldn't have seen that nob on the street in '85!

I think back at the years of not wearing colours, particularly when living in London and blending in with locals on the tube home. Then back to the coach and home.

Basically, romping around in football kits in some faraway shit-hole is not a good idea. Just watch it on the telly.

I don't like the class argument, Eddie, because I always like football to be inclusive. When I coached, I just wanted the lads to enjoy their football, develop and improve. And I had to deal with lads from all types of ethnic and economical backgrounds.

Football can unify people. That's the beauty of the game. But I do get your point.

My Grandfather was from Belfast and adopted Everton when he relocated to Speke. My Dad was from Garston and was the biggest Blue I knew. I was born into football and born into Everton. I never knew different.

But I too get frustrated by so-called lifelong modern supporters, especially down here in London. Especially when they are wearing Liverpool and Manchester United shirts. I don't get the connection. And they've really only been doing it since 1993. Corporate supporters and I can wipe the floor with them as I often do.

For me, Everton and football was and always has been a privileged birthright. Not something I took to because it became trendy to do so.

Eddie, I think the difference in this case is the sheer number of coordinated gangs with the one objective. To harm and steal and cause trouble. That's not like the lone scally targeting foreigners, it's mass targeting by mass gangs.

I totally agree, stand out in a foreign land and you are a target, but I can't say I have seen it on this scale. I have seen Millwall and West Ham fans attacking other supporters but that was because they wore another team's colours.

This was done to rob and injure, the attackers were local, not supporters... I guess what I am trying to say is both sets of supporters were targeted by gangs of youths and men because they had money and that made them targets; if no money, then done to harm.

Danny, the class thing is important because as a kid I could get a bus to the match, watch the game, get a bag of chips and go home all on my pocket money.
Hillsborough and the all seater stadia gave Football the opportunity to charge more and try to deter the unwanted young working class males from the game.
The Sky influence has compounded the issue. The season tickets have also made it less easy to be an occasional fan.
So my class observation, I think are valid.
Christine, there have been lots of lads who would target crowds of any sort. The theives are attracted to them.
Those police were mostly chasing gangs of locals in Paris but the added problems with the Fans showed how stretched they were. The situation could have got much worse.
I have a friend, now in his late 60's who lived near Blues ground in Birmingham. Him and his mates used to mug home or away fans for their scarves and anything else. They would then try and sell them.
They did this every fortnight and saw it as local tax. They had no interest in football.
I wonder how Rangers fans fared in Seville -a place renowned for it's pickpockets and thieves?
Perhaps they were a little more streetwise than the reds.

It goes on in lots of places throughout the world and we even grew up with our own turf wars in Liverpool.

I got told a story by a great fellow Blue many years ago, when I was an apprentice. He and his brother were in the Merchant Navy and they stopped in New York one time on a day when Rocky Marciano was fighting. The captain of the ship knew the Mayor of New York and he arranged tickets for a few of them to see the fight.

Anyway, Marciano won as he always did with lacerations all over his face but eventually wore his opponent down and knocked him out. All the lads went on the ale into the early hours in downtown New York but, on their way back to the ship, they all well and truly got beaten and robbed by various gangs.

I've also heard the opposite when American sailors got done in Liverpool and of course lots of other cities around the world.

We all know that there were 1000s of blag tickets circulating and UEFA aren't bothered about ordinary fans. We also know the RS have form and the CRS riot police are uniformed thugs just waiting for a chance to wade in. The perfect recipe for disaster!

The UK media have done their best to blame everyone but the RS and now we're being told the stadium was 'built in the wrong place'.
This is code for St. Denis is a working class area with a large ethnic population. I.e. 'not like us'.

My son went over for the week and got the bus to the game. After the match the buses were off so he had a 30 min walk back to were he was staying and didn't have any problems.

Where was he staying for the week? St. Denis!

We're being gaslighted.

I was on YouTube looking for the latest BMD drone footage when I came across the video that this link will take you to.

To say I was shocked would be an understatement but the video proves that the claims of us so called "bitter" blues are basically reinforced by one of "their" own. Watch til the end. Worth a watch.

"Heysel is never, ever mentioned" | Mark Lawrenson recalls night of the 1985 stadium disaster | OTB

Brian, good post. Something of an eye-opener, to say the least.

Cheers Brent. I just wanted to get it out there that what's said in the video proves that it isn't actually us being bitter towards them it's a fact, and a fact that one of their high profile ex players feels the need to openly admit.

Jamie,

When I was a teenager in Italy on vacation I bought a Lazio shirt. About a week later it was in the news how Lazio ultras were Nazis and Di Canio later gave them a Nazi salute.

Needless to say, the following summer,r on our family trip to Italy, I bought a Roma shirt. Montella on the back — still have it, in fact.

Anyway I've developed a certain affinity to the club and yes, spot-on – they love Mourinho for giving them a trophy. Going back to Grobelaar's knobly knees routine, they've had lots of disappointments and false dawns.

So yes I'd love to see Everton winning the European Cup Final we should have won in 1986. But, in the meantime, I'd love to be in Europe in anything.

Many dismissed Europe's 3rd competition last season when we had a chance of qualification, Jamie.

PSV, Feyenoord, Sparta Prague, Marseille, Hadjuk Split, Roma. Some big names. Who I'm sure didn't stick their noses in the air at it. So I don't see why we would. And, although not a major force, Rapid Wein. Remember them?

Europe's 3rd rated competition in 1985 gave us one of the greatest nights of our lives and one the best ever at Goodison prior to that. It put Alex Ferguson on the map.

European snobbery and dismissal seems to have been promoted by the likes of Allardyce who viewed it as an inconvenience to finishing 16th. I'm not picking on him in particuar because of my previous, but it seemed as though that era of predominantly British managers backed by pundits took and installed that view on a generation that has dismissed the excitement of playing in Europe and winning trophies.
Apparently only the elite should focus on Europe seems to be the attitude. Well done to Chelsea and Man City for ignoring that attitude back in the now day. Look at them now.

Not I. I'll take it every day because you've either won something or finished high enough in the league and have the building blocks for better things and to attract better players. Winning mentality, not survival and playing down expectation.

On the Lazio - Roma thing. We lived in Latina for 2 years (stationed nearby). It's about 45 minutes south of Rome.

Originally we thought Lazio because of the blue (albeit sky blue), but collectively their fans are a nasty bunch, particulay with what you allude to. Always prefered Roma. My son went to watch them last month.

Put the masses down and keep them in their place. I told you I was jet-lagged but trying to stay up or I'd have been awake at 2am like yesterday.

I love the European games. Any Premier League side has a chance of winning the Europa League etc too. It must be a short-term aim to get us into Europe via the League or win a cup. I expect and hope Lampard will have that in mind too, being a serial winner as a player.

Danny... interested in your perspective. I'd always thought that the Cup Winners Cup was second in terms of prestige?
Am I alone in holding this viewpoint?

No Alan, you're not alone. The Cup Winners Cup was second only to the European Cup.

The Cup-Winners Cup was the second tournament. That's why the winners played in the Super Cup.

I'd say the Europa League allowing for name changes that go back to the Inter Cities Fairs Cup...was a tougher competition. It had teams that had finished second, third and even fourth in their leagues.

But in terms of prestige the Cup-Winners Cup trumped it. Maybe because the domestic cup competitions hadn't become as devalued as they are nowadays. I mean... just look who won it this year!