Open revolt against failing Benitez looms following yet another sorry defeat

Regardless of the general state of the club at the moment, the buck stops with the manager. And he is currently setting us up like a tactical dinosaur. Open revolt is right. Going to the Leicester game with my lad. Fully expecting a totally toxic atmosphere that can only be solved when the shadow of Rafa is removed from this once great club.

Some things are rotten in the heart of Everton; it shows and really stinks.

All his appointments have been disasters, stopping the club making any progress and preventing any chance at continuity at the very least. If Rafa goes, it's back to square one. Again.

If only he'd allowed Brands to do his job from the very beginning. Ten Hag, Potter, Gaultier, maybe Gallagher would have been in blue yesterday?

Oh well, Benitez it is.

It's a shame, pragmatically Benitez should have the experience to manage the situation but he just seems to be stuck.

What's he trying to prove ? Because he's not doing a great job of it.

Perhaps he is just focused on getting control instead of being pragmatic like Ancelotti was.

Regardless, relegation form when you are effectively just missing DCL and Mina is poor.

You've just come off a rousing late win, you're playing a team low on confidence after 3 straight defeats, what do you do? Sit back, low block with zero positive intention. I honestly think if we were top of the league he'd still play the same way. It must be horrible playing in his teams with all the positivity literally beaten out of them. It's no wonder Digne kicked off. They are basically told to defend, defend, defend and maybe you might get one half-chance to score. For a player, how demoralising is that?

As for for pulling Richy off, I'd take a quarter fit Richy for a fully fit (joke?) Rondon. He says he wasn't effective, how can he be effective if he never sees that ball? A lone striker in a Benitez team, that is the original thankless task.

Go..go...go...but the stubborn get won't of course.

That went well for him! The fans displayed a banner starting their support for Bainsey and it was adios for Roberto. Now Digne isn't within a 100 miles in terms of popularity as Leighton, however there are parallels with the different treatment of Digne and Richarlison.

Regardless of whether Benitez thought that Digne's outburst was out of order or not, it was on the training pitch. In high performing clubs, those challenging conversations must happen every week. Dropping Digne for two games and considering his sale in January when we have no cover is simply stupid management.

Whoever, brought in Delph, and the other rubbish are to blame for our situation.

We have to get on with it! From a good win against Arsenal to a flailing defeat at Palace. It's time to stick together, try and get some points on the table and grind the season out,for yet another review in the summer.

All he had to do ffs, was add a few drops of 'Philosophy additive' to the Moyes machine, then take the hand brake off and watch it go.

But Benitez has form for shite 1st halfs...even though anybody who starts Kewell in a CL Final deserves all he gets...I wonder who the manager was that sat back on 0-3 up and let him get lucky...nah, it's gone, it'll come to me - some bluffer anyway.

I could - just - live with the ex rs, FSW, small club stuff. But lets face it he took the barcodes down, Bruce matched him in the "I'm just as shite as a guy who won the CL and had already took a Big Pension in a Small China League stakes".

But Moshiri continues to have his Monty Burns moments...I hear Baldrick (first name Sod Off!) is suing him for bringing Cunning Plans into disrepute.

Fuck knows where we go from here?

Down is the probable answer, the only question is - How far?...and How Quickly?

He has always created division wherever he has gone, at Liverpool and Newcastle he got away with that divisive approach because he was attacking the owners of these clubs who were detested by their fans. But here he has already caused division amongst the players. I am sure that Digne isn't the only player who can see the style and tactics are not helping, and you can probably add Richarlison to that growing band after yesterday. I found many of his decisions really puzzling, I was pleased he went with a 3 in midfield, but surely Doucoure should have been the most forward of the 3 not Gomes. He took off Delph who up to that point was our most effective midfield player, yet left Gomes on for the full 90 minutes despite it being his first outing of the season.
We were playing against a side who had lost the previous 4 league games, but allowed them to get to the halfway line unchallenged, I bet they couldn't believe their luck. Only after we had gone 2 goals behind did we show any ambition, and you could see in that period what a poor side Palace are, and had we played on the front foot from the start we may have got something out of the game.
While Townsend always puts in a shift, when you have a left footed player playing wide right then he is always wanting to come back onto his left side before crossing the ball which takes all the impetus out of the move. As Gordon showed when he came on we looked more of a threat. Obviously Coleman and Gray really cocked up for their first goal, and again Godfrey was to blame for not defending a dead ball situation, something he has been guilty of on many occasions.

So will dumb and dumber stick with Benitez or will they appoint someone who will at the very least unite the fans and players which isn't the case at present. Lose to Chelsea on Thursday then come the home game against Leicester then the fans will make it impossible for you to stick with Benitez

He is tactically inflexible and the team are poorly organised and set up, yet he seems incapable or unwilling to change anything. His insistence on bizzare substitutions and keeping his ineffectual favourites on for the whole game - see Rondon earlier in the season and Townsend yesterday is shameful. He badly needed to generate some good will among a sceptical fan base but his arrogant insistence on his way or the highway have drained that goodwill dry.

He is trying to play compact,
counter-attacking football but he is failing miserably as the results clearly demonstrate as his system is leaving massive gaps between the defence and midfield.

We are wide open and making error after error. Yes, the players have to shoulder their fair share of the blame but they are playing a system that doesn't work and their sloppiness is a reflection of how badly they are managed.

The Burnley and Newcastle games after Christmas are massive for us. We nee to give ourselves the maximum chance of winning and that is increased by getting rid and cutting our losses on the wrong appointment sooner rather than later.

At the end of the day mistakes, really stupid mistakes and casual marking by Everton players cost Everton this game, so yes some blame on the manager and quite a lot on the players, who in quite a few cases are simply not good enough and Benitez inherited them, mistakes by other managers, and, if unfortunately Benitez is sacrificed, the new manager will face the same problems with the same players.

In my opinion, Benitez was totally the wrong choice as manager, something Moshiri definitely got wrong. It only needed something like the horrendous run we are currently on, or players falling out with the manager, for the vast majority of fans to turn on him. This situation is certainly dividing fans in the ground as well. Not long after the substitution of Richarlison, and probably after the second goal, there was a fracas between fans not far from us, and I doubt very much they were arguing over a dropped fiver. It's even getting arguments between me and one of the lads I've been going the away games for years. He's blaming everyone except Benitez and Kenwright, with Moshiri taking the brunt of his criticism. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but how can you blame someone who has ploughed over half a billion pounds into the playing squad, granted we have recouped a few hundred million back through sales. People say Moshiri knows nothing about football, that's why he appointed DOF's Steve Walsh and Marcel Brands, people who are supposed to know something about football, and people Moshiri put his trust in with his money. As, I think it was Stephen Vincent said on another thread, Sheikh Monsour knew nothing about football when he eventually took over Man City, so he hired the right people to clear out everything and start afresh. This is something Moshiri clearly needs to do.

In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, Moshiri is no way to blame, other than appointing Benitez, and this is were I think Kenwright got it right in advising Moshiri not to appoint Benitez, but in no way am I in support of Kenwright. The man is a parasite. We all know the alleged story of him wanting more money and to remain as chairman when it was alleged Monsour wanted to buy the club. Moshiri should have forced, made or asked Kenwright to step down as chairman once he took total control of the club.

Finally, back to Benitez. I understand there are mitigating circumstances for the playing side, ie, injuries, but this is were a manager is supposed to earn his corn. He's the one who's supposed to be able to adjust to cover injuries, although it's a lot harder when it's your better players who are injured, but FFS, why won't he give one or two of the kids a go. Some of his seasoned pros are failing miserably, so try kids who will at least put the effort, commitment and desire in, kids who will leave everything out on the pitch after ninety minutes. Looking at Benitez on tv this morning when he made the Richarlison substitution and he had that look of “Everyone's against me”, with a shrug of the shoulders and the curling up of the mouth. I was watching Benitez during the second half, and he appeared to be sitting down more than standing in the technical area, barking out instructions. Is this the sign of a man accepting defeat in his quest to succeed at Everton? Once we get hammered at Chelsea, that will be it, there will be no way back for him, Moshiri has to accept he was wrong with appointing Benitez and pull the trigger.

Goes to Palace and sits back, slips back to whats caused us the problems in our terrible run.

Past it, no idea how to change tactics, HAVE A GO!!!
Why the hell did he allow us to give them the ball, come on to us.Why sit back play passive football.Only a matter of minutes until we make a mistake gift them.We done it all season.

Why not Rondon up front, Richarlison.
Give them problems in their third.He was fit, play him.

We would have had a couple of goals in us.
Get beat having a go away from home.

Rafa only three games from the sack now.Kenwright told Moshiri its down to you.
The fans wont wait until the end of Jan with 15/16 games left.

Benitiz keeps saying we will have a better second half.
The way the fixtures look.

We will be in the bottom 3/4 with 5 maybe 6 wins.

Cant see Goodison accepting that.

The team,crowd beat Arsenal not Benitez.

Get him out of the place.

If and I accept if we lose to Chelsea,Leicester, Burnley we are in a terrible situation.
Dont let Benitez sell Digne, Richarlison to raise funds.

For Gods Sake Moshiri, get big Sam in 🙄🙄🙄

Secure our Premier League status with the 18 games Benitiez will have left you.

Few managers have the methods, ability with the crap squads(performing squads, players he is handed).

I don't want to go to Plymouth Argyle to play a league match.

Anybody offering odds on a win in the next three.

Of course we could win 2 if not 3 its football.
But odds.???

No flexibility in his thinking about how to approach the game, the old mantra of keep the crowd quiet for the first 25 mins just does not cut it in the modern game. During his period goal kicks and defenders lumped it forward and second balls were fought for providing respite and encouragement in equal measures. Now all teams play out from the back and retain possession hence any team that sits back and cedes possession will be under constant pressure, and with our shower of poor 'footballing' defenders the inevitable goal against is just a matter of time.

He is a dinosaur and belongs in the past and should rapidly go there. I believed we couldn't afford yet another managerial change and despite all my reservations felt we needed stability over parochialism and hence went along with Moshri. But its his football tactics, the results they lead to and his defensive mindset that clearly points to the need for change.

He never had a long term future at the club but the longer he is allowed to stay the deeper our troubles will be, the mocking 'agent Benitez' just has too much resonance now.

You say "yes some blame on the manager and quite a lot on the players, who in quite a few cases are simply not good enough and Benitez inherited them". Ok let me ask this question, do you think Palace have better players? Do you think Brentford or Wolves have better players?

What's the big difference? The way they're setup, the way they are trained, the way they are told to go out there and do a job. That's the difference.

We all know he has been handed down a crap bag of spanners to work with (and by God, the majority of those spanners need binning) but he doesn't come close to getting the best possible out of them and he insists on using the really rubbish ones, time and again, instead of trying out a couple of the newer ones.

His mantra is most definitely one of "my way or the highway". He has no affinity whatsoever and has made no attempt to build any sort of relationship with the fans. I'm not suggesting for one second that he allows a fan base to pick the team, before anyone jumps on me for that. I'm pointing out that no-one warms to a guy who makes no effort to warm to them.

And, in my opinion, he clearly has no liking for the football club that now pays him so handsomely. His demeanour suggests that managing Everton is something he doesn't really want to be doing but it's very convenient in its location and the money's decent so he'll have some of that.

I cannot agree with the argument "Who else do we get in? Who would be better?" I don't have the answer to that. I wish I did. But that is pretty much irrelevant in my eyes. He's currently doing such a bad job that he surely cannot be left to steer us into oblivion, "sanctioned" by an owner who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

All the above is as nice as I can bring myself to be about a man who, in my opinion, should never have been allowed anywhere near our football club in the first place. Bye-bye, Mr Benitez. Please.

Before our game yesterday, I watched the concluding race of the winner-takes-all Grand Prix season. A gladiatorial battle between two modern-day charioteers going wheel to wheel. Inspirational. Engrossing.

It highlighted in the cruelest way how the race is never run and won until the final curve. Until the final whistle blows. Until stumps are drawn.

Nothing and no-one at Everton inspires at the moment. Owner. Club board. Manager. Players.

Yes, we can be thankful to Farhad Moshiri for the millions he has invested in managerial appointments, player purchases and in his pursuit of the new stadium build at BMD.

No, we cannot be thankful that he has not empowered his DoF appointments and given them absolute autonomy to oversee footballing matters. The style of play. Managerial appointments. Player recruitment.

Having taken the easier decision to sacrifice Brands last week, the only senior footballing man in a position of power to influence all the above is Rafa Benitez. That is becoming a growing concern. So much power and influence invested in one single man who currently is failing.

The club intends to undertake 'a strategic review of the football structure to inform the best model for the Club to proceed with in the long-term.'

All the noises coming out of the club is that this will be conducted internally by those already at the club, rather than a neutral external review.

The latter would look at things with a naked eye and identify the problems and solutions. The former will be inclined to turn a blind eye as a means of self-preservation.

Unless and until there is a deep cleansing of the Augean stables that is Everton Football Club, we will remain trapped in this eternal cycle of mediocrity.

Moshiri, I feel, will stubbornly keep him in the job, and, I feel, give him the transfer window. This could hamper us further as it will mean another 2/3 players joining this conglomerate of past managerial mistakes.

It is clear that we need a manager with a long term vision. We need a manager on the up (even if the manager views us as a stepping stone).

Football has moved on – Benitez is a manager, like Mourinho, who uses negative tactics and believes football success is about 'authority' and 'discipline'. And not about tactics, pace, innovation and good coaching.

Jesse Marsch, recently lost his job at Leipzig, but is still a highly regarded coach mentored by Rangnick.

Ralf Hasenhüttl, despite some issues, has worked good work with very little at Southampton. They have a much poorer squad of players but play a better game than we currently do.

Paulo Fonseca is also available, different in philosophy with more focus on possession, won everything at Shaktar and did well at Roma (they're in a much worse situation despite much investment with the out-dated Mourinho at the helm).

All possible options for us to look at that would be huge improvements on Benitez.

The longer we take, the more damaging it will be.

Unfortunately, unlike in the movie, there will be no surprise smash hit and no one will end up asking 'Where did we go right?'. This Kenwright/Moshiri production will definitely bomb and the audience at yesterday's 'performance' has had enough.

All together now -
Springtime for Rafa and Ev-er-ton,
Winter for RS and Mancs

I think nearly every team in the Premier League have better central midfield players than Everton and that has been a problem for the last two or three seasons. Only Doucouré looks ready to play for 90 minutes every week and he didn't look 100% fit yesterday. Gomes, Delph and Allan struggle to last the game out and mostly fail.

As for the other club's players being as good as Everton's players, I'm not sure but they all play like they are physically and mentally stronger than most in the Everton squad.

Maybe a better manager than Benitez could come in and replace him? But I doubt if the very best of them could get a better tune out of this squad. Like Benitez keeps indicating, we will be better in the New Year with the introduction of some new players to strengthen this very weak squad which has failed quite a few Everton managers. I hope he is correct.

If he stays, we will be in the relegation mix and we will escape relegation, not through his technical acumen, but because Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley have even worse problems than us.

He must go before the next transfer window; he cannot be put in charge of recruitment as well as tactics and management of the team.

Please, we need a new manager – not Mourinho, for God's sake who is another cut from the same cloth. Someone who can unite the squad, and give them some enthusiasm. Someone who can tailor his style to the strengths of the squad. I don't know who this saviour will be, but the Fat Spanish Waiter is not that man.

Our fans are no different to any others we have as many entitled knee jerkers as any other club. We get what we deserve.

Michael, that word checker, must be your brother or cousin, he's playing on you mate or taking the piss out of me. Not good enough either way, sack him Michael or I'll have to put this in the hands of my solicitor.

The depth of anger following the most recent shambles surprised me, I'll readily admit. Moshiri faces some very difficult and important choices in the very near future. What are the chances he makes the correct ones? Just as easy to answer as the first question I posed.

It can't get any worse. Oh, ho-hum... it's Tuchel's ruthless Chelsea outfit up next? My mistake, it can get worse. But for Benitez, and perhaps even the club's sake itself, it simply mustn't.

I don't know how or even if there's any way he can do it, but nothing short of a positive result on Thursday will be enough to halt the supporter discontent. A dismissive belting and it could be dugout Dunc by New Year.

Happy Holidays!

Lyndon, thoughtful takedown of all involved in this debacle. I'd quibble about Rondon's one-two or some of the Benitez stuff (it was a kitano setup that went bad with Gray's assist). Overall, an unassailable take on a dour situation.

Is there anything Rafa could say at this point? Losing the away fans is serious indeed. Just the look of the whole crowd letting your side have some must have undone the nerves of a player or two. Ultimately it's not my call from this far away, but I definitely feel that, just so you know.

Not going down. Home games will be crucial. Better days, gentlemen, at some point, better days.

And oh yeah… 'turgid' was nice to read – and Rob, that was heavy, very heavy.

That's a highly amusing comparison with Mel Brook's classic. I think, however, Springtime For Rafa ain't going to happen. Lyndon's title ("open revolt") extract is a pointer to the inevitability of all this coming to an end, possibly before they take the field against Leicester if Everton lose heavily at Chelsea.

I was one of those who was pleased at seeing Rafa Bentitez's appointment, it seemed logical to me, and I had hoped that the early-season form would be a prelude to better things. The reality is though that the players don't seem to be comfortable with his set-up, and he has already started to make comments about his squad's lack of tactical and technical abilities, and tendency to make critical errors.

I guess it's hard to know where the truth lies, but I expect Everton will continue to stonewall the fans, and the anger will come to a tumult in one of the home games.

Universal hostility and derision in the crowd when Richarlison was taken off yesterday. I felt sorry for Rondon who hardly even acknowledged his goal and didn't even glance at the supporters.

It reminded me of a game we saw at Wembley when Spuds hammered Everton - our team was all over the place; players shouting at each other, no organisation, nothing. These are coaching issues. This isn't going to end well - I just hope it ends quickly.

Worst scenario - Moshiri goes for another star name. The man has invested a a fortune but seems inconsistently clueless when it comes to football and incapable of taking advice. An inverse Midas touch.

So either the key decision-maker sticks with his convictions (and Rafa); or he realises after one loss, just one loss, that maybe it wasn't the right decision. Is he really going to fold that quickly?

I agree after Benitez goes we've still got Moshiri, this guy is a Mr Bean, things aren't going to become miraculously better overnight.

They could though become much worse if his next managerial choice is similar to one of his on field buys - the outstanding Iwobi!

The shite has been allowed to stain for so long now at this club that it will no longer wash out.

Moshiri, heart in the right place, head buried in quick sand.

Every managerial appointment he's made has gone absolutely tits up and sadly this one looks probably weeks maybe even days away from another big payoff costing the club more.

The players are absolutely rank awful though, let's not get away from stating the obvious.

You don't need a manager to coach you to be able to pass a ball and move into space, or know that you need to press and work hard when not in possession, if you do then I would like to know how they passed as professional footballers.

Coleman yesterday, a 33 year old experienced Captain, absolutely brain-dead.

Gomes, Portugal international yet looks like he's running with treacle on his soles.

The defence yesterday, Ben Godfrey, simply falling asleep on the one duty that he had to do which was stay close to James Tomkin's, he failed and we went 2-0 down.

The manager is failing, he's overly cautious, he's very defensive and frankly it's becoming annoying.

But the players have failed now under how many bosses?

It's starting to become too much of a coincidence?

It's errors on every part, manager, chairman, owner, players, coaches.

As I say, the club is too far rotten.

If we can pick up a couple of good players in January at the right money and stabilise things, we might be alright. Then try and build in the summer.

Two reasons:

1. Sacking a manager less than halfway through his first season smacks of sheer panic. Establishing organizational stability is at least partly about perception. Certainly changes are needed, but no decent top executive or manager is going to come to work for an owner who freaks out when things go sour for a couple of months. From Moshiri's perspective, changing managers is a bad idea for his long-term vision of a club that will have a shiny new stadium in 2024.

2. The issue isn't just sacking Benitez, it's replacing him. And there is nobody -- absolutely nobody -- out there in the world that I would want coming in to manage this club right now. Leave out the fantasies about our buying Graham Potter or some other successfully employed manager out of his contract with his current club, because there's no way in hell that's gonna happen. We have a choice of the unemployed -- Lampard, Favre, Villas-Boas, Nuno, Farke, Gracia, Fonseca. (And, God forbid, Fat Sam.) Which of them would inspire confidence in a prompt turnaround? To me, none. Which would be guaranteed to get this weak lineup to play better? To me, none. Which would be embraced by the Everton faithful as long-term solutions? To me, none.

(There are also Zidane, Valverde and Setien out there, but none of them would be the least bit interested in Everton.)

Sometimes when you've pushed too much money into the pot on bad cards, it's time to stop raising the bet in hopes of catching a miracle ace on the last turn. You play what you've been dealt and wait for better cards.

And you certainly don't panic and shove all in.

That's what this season has become, a mission for 40 points. As Jim above and others have put it the blame can be apportioned throughout the club. The manager is certainly culpable, but the players are not performing yet again.

The repeated schoolboy mistakes are just soul destroying. This and defending set pieces is yet again a constant burden on the club's ability to get wins. We haven't got the points in the he bank to play experiments, we need solutions to problems right now. The manager may be right to bang on about hybrid zonal or whatever is called, but if the players are incapable of executing it there just has to be change. The horse has been flogged to death.

The owner is an accountant so shouldn't be making football decisions on a hunch or whatever. I'm not so sure he makes the big decisions anyway.

The Chairman, it all been said, why is he still here?

One more thing, I'm tearing my hair out (what's left of it ) about the fact that we can't take a decent corner or free kick. Is it really that hard to whip in a rapid curling ball over he first defender and into the danger zone ?

The ‘player with no name' delivered one or two, but you have to go back to Andy Hinchcliffe (when I had lovely hair) to get the feeling like we were going to score from every corner or a wide free kick.

You keep stopping the training, giving us minor details, instead of just letting us train with intensity, was what his captain allegedly told the manager, and Benitez, swiftly called a meeting for the next morning.

I don't know how true this is, but the article went on to say this meeting changed Chelsea's season, and they went on to win the Europa cup, and also qualify for the Champions lge, through their league position, which begs the question of why Luca Digne, is the only player that has been left out the squad?

We are now only two players from our best team and there seems to be the attitude we'll be allright when they return. DCL is no Aguero, he's an athletic hard working poacher, but not much more. What are we expecting from him? He had a good run last season, but it was a strange season, most teams were off the pace. This season I feel defenses will have a better measure of him. Having spent nearly half a season out when he comes back he will also need more than a few games to find form again.

Mina is decent defender, but no Maldini, hel'll help us and give us attacking options at set pieces, but there's only so much we can expect especially with his injury record.

This really is a precarious position we find ourselves in.

CRYSTAL PALACE D

BRIGHTON D

TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR D

Arsenal W

ASTON VILLA L

WEST HAM UNITED w

ASTON VILLA D

SHEFFIELD UNITED L

WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS w

MANCHESTER CITY L

Benitez's last ten games

MANCHESTER UNITED d

WEST HAM UNITED L

WATFORD L

WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS L

TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR d

MANCHESTER CITY L

BRENTFORD L

LIVERPOOL L

Arsenal W

CRYSTAL PALACE L

Disturbing post. but keep your chin up lad

People like you. Our away following, is probably the clubs biggest asset. They are the most patient and loyal in football. Heaven knows they have deserved better down the years, but still they remain loyal. It's cause for concern when they turn on each other.

I've only seen it happen once before. Years ago at Lisbon airport when a large group rounded on Davey Moyes. They came very close to blows. Moyes had his supporters who objected to the rage and anger directed at him. All the way home Evertonians were screaming at each other. Like you now. I got home thinking. that he couldnt survive that night.

Dont write Rafa off though. Often circumstances and other factors intervene to save managers. Moyes struggled for a while, but in the second half of the season with Man United. Chelsea and Man City coming to town, Goodison went into bear pit mode and as you know we went on a run and we beat the three of them.

The faithful have a long history for putting their differences with a manager to one side when the chips are down - Just ask Mike Walker

Do I think Rafa can save us from the drop ? No, but the faithful will. Better teams than this current Everton team have been relegated, but they did not have the benefit of these wonderful passionate fans to pull them over the line.

I have no problem at all with people hammering a manager on a website - Not that I would do it meself like

I know we are all hurting and especially chomping at the bit for a change in fortune.

None of us now the real goings on at GP and FF so we don't know if its disharmony at board level, or the manager, or the coaches, or the players and dare I say it or the crowd.

I believe the fans have been so long suffering now the frustration is about to burst the banks of the Mersey but that is the opposite of what the manager or the players need right now.

We will all disagree about selection and tactics and constantly do but the only thing that matters right now is results and points.

We cant change the players, the board will not change themselves, the hangers on will hang on longer and the only question is do we bail on Rafa and give big Dunc a ride until the end of the season. That in itself is very high rick. As we have already seen with these players they can raise their game for short periods but cannot sustain it.

Personally I would hold off until the January window. Get a couple of Todd Cantwell's in MF, get a couple of decent fullbacks and a goalscorer, mostly on loan depending on player sales and then see if its the tactics or the players.

What started off okay has quickly gone sour. I think the majority of Everton fans weren't happy with the appointment of Rafa, mostly due to his Liverpool ties, however I do think we have all given him our support, and we have been well and truly let down. It is simply not acceptable to look back at the Arsenal game and think ‘well we won that one so'. We have to face facts. They almost went 2-1 up when they hit the post, we scored a 92 minute screamer, which was our 3rd shot on target in 90 minutes and also Arsenal had a glorious chance to nick a point at the death. We played well in this game, forward attacking football for around half an hour. The game is 90 minutes long and we simply do not perform for this period of time.

Tactically I have found Rafa to be inept. This is not ten years ago. You can't expect to play possession, counter attacking football in every game, against every opponent. It just has not worked. We aren't quick enough to counter attack and we don't have the quickly to keep possession and create chances such as a Liverpool or Manchester City. We have one of the best crosses of the ball in the league in Digne whom has been frozen out of the team. It's all a bit strange. Why isn't Digne being played and more importantly why isn't he being told to bomb forward, overlap, and cross the ball at every opportunity, it's mystifying. Tierney did it against us at Goodison for the Gunners' first goal, it was class.

It's clear now that Coleman is starting to make mistakes that are leading to goals. The derby game, and today. Coleman unfortunately can't get forward like he used to, however why not play Digne and utalise Godfrey in the right back position. Rafa seems set on his players and his tactics and that's it. There's no change week in week out, other than players coming in for injured players. It really is poor and it seems to me now that the players have lost faith.

Brands has gone, others have gone, yet we have just been beaten 3-1 by Palace, who are on such a poor run of form. Yet again, we have to go a goal down to start to play. However today, we had to go 2 goals down to start to play. It's just not good enough. I don't believe for a second that we don't have enough quality players. But it would seem, unlike Carlo, Rafa doesn't have the ability to keep a clean sheet and nick a
1-0 win. I do think we have been unlucky. A clear penalty against Brentford not given, a decision for a foul on Coleman today before they scored from their corner, not given. I mean we could even be picky and say their third goal shouldn't of counted as Coleman has kicked the ball with their player less than ten yards away and the ball was rolling, therefore regardless it should of been brought back. However, we can't let these incidents cover up the facts, which is we simply are not good enough over 90 minutes to win football matches. We are conceding stupid goals from silly mistakes but we aren't doing anything worthwhile going forward. Where is the tactics? It's all over the place.

The players don't seem to be performing under Rafa. I know we have been unlucky with injury's but when players come in who want to fight for places he can't seem to motivate anyone to do a job. What substitute has changed a game this season? You could argue Gomes against Arsenal, yet Gomes kept his place today and made us all realise how poor his is. When is Iwobi going to do anything worthwhile in an Everton shirt? When will Keane be dropped and Branthwaite be given a chance? When will Simms, Onyango or Dobbin be given a game in place of others who just don't perform for us? These are all questions Rafa has to answer.

Rafa has to start working on defending corners. Yet again today we concede from another. When is he going to realise this is a problem. I don't have the exact figures but I believe it's around ten goals we have already shipped from corners, we have big strong players, this cannot be an issue other than what the players are being told to us and who to mark. It's an absolute shambles.

Rafa needed to continue on from the win at Arsenal yet that performance was just not good enough, yet again. I never wanted to really say these words publicly but I am now Rafa out. He has added nothing to Everton and we have become a complete embarrassment. We lose at Chelsea and Leicester then we are in a relegation fight. We need someone with passion, someone with some grit and gile, dare I say it, we need Duncan Ferguson. We need someone who will enstill what playing for Everton is all about, you run, you tackle, you work hard, you come off that pitch absolutely knackered and knowing you have given you're all. We want someone running down the touch line when we score, we want someone who goes over to the fans at the end pumping their fist and showing that fight that we all want. Rafa has none of this. Giving a pathetic wave every now and again is just not filling anyone with anything other than doubt that only red runs through his veins.

Oh and a side note, he was so quick to want to get rid of James Rodrigues. I'm telling you what he is exactly what we are missing right now. Someone who can get the ball and spread the play and someone who can score some goals. Great decision that was. What's next Digne? Richarlison? Calvert Lewin? If anything has been proven in this league it's that you have to keep your best players as they are just too invaluable to replace. Lukaku style, we still haven't replaced him, Stones style, we still haven't replaced him.

All in all it's just one thing after another. I don't think Rafa has done anything to assure any Evertonian he's the man to lead us. Tactics, team selections, substitutions, excuses, they all seem wrong. And maybe this has just all been a big cock up from the start.

Terry #54, split decision on that one. Agree wholeheartedly on Ramsey, but Winks? A talented 25-year-old with a spotty record? Not first choice and a whole lot to prove?

That's exactly what Gray was four months ago when he came over from Leverkusen... and before that when he left Leicester.

Perhaps Winks -- same age, same level of Prem experience, same flashes of talent and frustrating inconsistency -- is just the kind of player we should take a chance on.

Winks is injury-prone and one-paced, though. Gray is rapid.

Sell Digne, Mina and Richarlison to raise funds and, with the parachute payment, come up lean, mean and hungry.

For all we know, the club may have been warned of such a fate.

I know, I see the eyes and, under your breath, "For fuck's sake, Riley, play another record!" I want a manager to kick some arses here. Mean something for the shirt and fans! I would rather be awful and shite to watch but working for the shirt.

Why would Moyes come home? We need him and now! There is no other choice now! This squad needs someone to tell it straight!! These players have got off lightly! We can't defend, no structure, and open as a garden gate!

Those thinking relegation might make things better? No!! No!! It may take a lifetime to return! Championship football is a lottery big-time!!

David Moyes is not the manager that left! More experienced, tactically aware and still an eye for a bargain! We need him back!!

The bloody snake arsed us about saying that he was looking at his contract for 18 months, and more, then the shithouse waltzed up the M62.

Would I have the Ginger Tosser back? Shove that plate of Heston Blumenthal Utterly Humble Pie my way, then keep them coming. I'll scofff the lot, Yours, Santa's, Krippen's, Goebbels's, Jesus, Mary & The Poor Wee Donkey's.

I've brought Me own spoon.

He is amongst us once more!

Rejoice!!! Rejoice!!!

Buttons would be blubbing at the mere thought of it.

I've had enough losers. Kenwright Out.

No, I don't know who we get to replace him... maybe Jimmy Martin could do a better job.

Crisis? What Crisis?

When Rafa took off Richarlison and brought on Rondon, I almost screamed. Richie was having an off-day, but he can turn a game in a second. He was also commanding attention from their back four. Our only hope was some sort of miracle from a counter-attack, and who better than Richarlison to provide this?

I am beginning to think Benitez is inept and way too stubborn, with his Digne punishment. This season is not about his ego. I am lost as to what the answer is, as I don't think there is one with this set of players and manager.

I watched Will Hughes, who had a cracking game. Why can't we pick up genuine and talented players like him (at a reasonable price) and not the dross we have spent millions on?

Players don't want to – never want to – but he was ineffective because of the injury. It shows more at that level and there's a season to think of, not one match.

In terms of feeling despair, I know we all have opinions and feel different at different times, but for me the 4-0 thumping at Arsenal's old Highbury stadium in 1998 was when I have probably felt at my lowest Everton ebb.

Knowing we were going into a relegation decider on the back of that submissive display even beat the feeling in 1994.

It's December. Lots of games and points to be won and lost. I sometimes I think us fans forget how bad we have actually been over the past few decades.

It's far from over just yet.

Moshiri needs to tell Benitez that it's loan signings only in January and none of our better players (Digne, Richarlison etc) are to be sold until the summer.

The manager needs telling "Prove you are up to the job with Plan B, C and D. Sadly, in the games against Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea, play all the squad players even younger players; target the supposed winnable games as cup games but play your best 11."

It's going to be painful but something radical must happen. As a Blue, I want Everton to be competing with every team but the sad reality is we're shite.

Brentford, Norwich, Burnley, Newcastle (x2), Watford, Leeds, Southampton, Villa are all games we must win!! If we can't then we deserve to go down.

Reset in the summer with a proper recruitment strategy under a new board. I would also target a replacement manager.

Everton need to become ruffled and clear-out the old boys network and this "They get Everton" mentality. Sign young athletic footballers who can trap, pass and tackle, who understand the need to move around the pitch fast and stay alert for 95+ minutes.

I have never considered turning my back on Everton in all my 58 years but, by Christ, I am very close to it!!!

Not saying he'd work out as well as Gray -- just pointing out that nobody here wanted Gray, but at 25 he has seen the light. Maybe Winks would be worth that gamble.

The best counter-attacking teams can absorb frequent and extended spells of pressure without the ball. The wisdom of, effectively, inviting teams onto you with a defense as fragile and error-riddled as ours can be assessed quite accurately by a look at our recent results or a glance at the Premier League table.

I can also intellectually see the point a few posters here are making whilst disagreeing with it entirely regarding Benitez's continued tenure: "Successful clubs don't run through managers at this rate" – this line of thinking goes.

"We can't keep sacking managers, we must eventually just settle on one and stick with him for it's what successful clubs seem to do."

Of course, the flipside of this is also true. Successful clubs don't appoint a series of disastrous choices as manager. Successful clubs don't appoint a fellow who then loses 7 league games in 8 less than halfway through his first season.

There was even a badly muddled and confused analogy about cards somewhere up there:

"Sometimes when you've pushed too much money into the pot on bad cards, it's time to stop raising the bet in hopes of catching a miracle ace on the last turn. You play what you've been dealt and wait for better cards. And you certainly don't panic and shove all in."

Playing what you've been dealt when you can't win is the road to ruin playing poker. If you've a busted flush or straight you should almost certainly fold it straight away, and conserve your resources for future hands.

Plenty labeling Benitez a busted flush already. Playing the figurative Benitez until the figurative river is folly compounded on folly.

A losing hand is no more or less than that – whether you fold it and lose nothing or take it to the final turn and put your house on it. The only questions remaining then become very straightforward. Along the lines of: "How much do we want to lose and how quickly can we lose it?"

Who cares if we look stupid? – it's better than finishing in the Bottom 3 or having to watch this turgid football that our tactical genius is serving up. He needs to be gone now, he is splitting the club apart, a truly horrible devious man.

Benitez Out!

Ancelotti put that down to a lack of work and effort. He got no response when he went public to say so, as other lower-table clubs passed Everton on the table, and European Football seemed a disincentive.

It is just happening earlier this season as Benitez called for an improvement in all departments. In other words, more work and effort.

No Manager would send out a team to play as Everton did against Palace. It is not down to tactics, it is down to the players who are implementing the tactics. Defensively due to constant errors and poor technique in midfield, with Palace only having to mark Gray. This is the result of the familiar Finch Farm downing of tools.

The problem is the players that Ancelotti had are still with us and in enough numbers to drag the team down to the familiar Everton level. They will not be held accountable and will do the same with the next manager, after a bit of a rally once the present manager is gone.

'I actually fear for his safety. It's no secret where he lives and, let's face it, we have our fair share of brain-dead idiots.'

He did his coaching badges with Lampard and other bigger names and came top in everything. His thesis on set-pieces was actually published. Lampard took him to Chelsea and he has so impressed Teuchel that he lets Barry organise all set-piece training. Chelsea have improved at both ends under his training.

Barry apparently studied 16,000 Premier League throw-ins for his thesis and formulated new systems for them, challenging the previously coached methods. The article touted Barry as having a great future as a coach. He has apparently turned down good offers to remain at Chelsea and learn from Teuchel.

One for the future? I'd get him now just for corners!!

Sunday 12 December 2021 – the day that one sport was wrecked and the day that one club died.

Formula 1 had me feeling sick to my stomach after a Dutch bloke who drives like an unlicenced 14-year-old was handed the World Championship on a plate by imbeciles. That was followed by a football match where one team accepted an early Christmas present from probably the worst team in the Premier League, who gave them the ball at every opportunity, led by a "manager" who is absolutely clueless – like the bloke who employed him.

Newcastle were a club whose owner wouldn't spend a penny, managed by our hero now at Everton – a club where the owner must be the son of Viv Nicholson who can't stop spending; the result looks like it is going to be the same.

I was reading an item from Alan Myers who suggests getting Rooney and Big Dunc together after running the Werthers Original chewing failure out of the club back over the Mersey.

Certainly, if nothing else, the word 'passion' would be their motto and the players would know exactly where they stand if not pulling their weight, which, in the case of Iwobi, pulling the skin off a rice pudding would be a start.

It is almost getting to the point where the R-word seems inevitable and, after being unthinkable for 70 years, it is not now.

A judgement has to be made on 20 games and if it's from mid-September until 30 December, he should be gone before we play Newcastle.

How on earth can he be good enough? The players all know he isn't, we know he isn't. Forget injuries, he has had enough games, plenty of time to coach out mistakes. Enough time to deliver tactics with the players he has. Some of the games he has lost were thrown away with the wrong tactics.

I can say I could take Duncan, Unsworth, the U18 staff. Some ex-players, Kevin Sheedy, loads. Player-manager Allan, Seamus Coleman. More points than Rafa. Some fans with coaching experience. More points than Rafa. Fact: he will be the worst manager by Xmas, New Year in our history. Possibly. Probably on form.

So 5 games won, 4 to go. End 5 wins – if it's 9 won, I'll shut up forever. 4 more defeats, what then?

Empty stadium. That seems all that Moshiri will take notice of. Dire

We are the worst team I've seen when it comes to throw ins. The mantra seems to be to surrender possession and give the ball to opponents asap. No one really moves or seeks space. We used to be decent at free kicks and corners, even with a limited squad. We are now simply dreadful, both in defence and attack. The points picked up or lost through set pieces can make all the difference in a relegation fight.

I literally looked away for a second to mutter something to my son. When I looked back, the Palace defence were in comfortable possession. We must have generously thrown it straight back to them.

Win at Chelsea you definately keep ya job for Leicester.Lose Duncan will be in charge for Leicester, we will have a chat Fri.

Win at home, if you only got a point or Dunc is taking us to Burnley.
Go to Burnley and get a point or three Rafa if your still in charge.

Win at home to Newcastle if you don't get beat at Burnley.
So its up to you to get the results,points to keep ya job,Convince the players to put it all in for you and themselves.

If not it ends on the days we say, collect your £12million from the office.
We thank you for your service.

Iam simply laying out whats supposed to happen, does happen with 10,11,loses out of 13,14games.
The Norwich lad won at 5pm sacked at 5.30 same day.

Well done Delia, give ya club a chance, the next manager a fighting chance to turn it around.

Just saying whats supposed to happen with a record that Rafa could have by next Sun.

We will see.

Quite impressive, in a sense.

Everton players were all out wide on the right side of the area waiting for the kick, and it looked like the Palace players had also gone wide, to match up.

A quick free kick to someone with the speed and fast feet of Gray, could have really exposed them, but we chose to hit two diagonal balls into the box without any real conviction whatsoever.

Players are getting paid 70-100 grand a week to hit non league balls, why can't we just put the fucking ball down and play, sometimes?

Yes, the players will never admit they're at fault, I'm not sure if it's an organised group denial or not, but I suspect there's a 'circle the wagons' attitude every manager we've had has come up against.

Derek Cowell @ 75

The way they're playing I thought they already had Covid or sleeping sickness? We could do what the Dark Side do, break out the inhalers and caffiene pills? I'm not sure even Methamphetamine would get our players to run around with the same intensity as their opponents.

Adrian Evans @ 78

Empty stadium?
No chance, our fan base does not understand the concept of tough love. Sacrificing just one game out of a lifetime of season tickets is beyond them. It's like trying to herd cats.

We don't have enough players comfortable with the ball. Too many fear having it so revert to tossing it about like a hot potato.

This is a long-standing problem with Everton over many years - it is greatly exacerbated currently due to the relatively low technical ability many of the first team have and whatever coaching and training goes on in the week at FF - combine the two together and we have wasted opportunities every game to overcome some of the technical and footballing deficiencies by clinical delivery of the ball in crucial areas - as you say - this is basic stuff at any level of football

I am genuinely fearful for this season with the playing stock so low and the clear politics being played out in the various corridors of power

But this one is important and will define our season more than I can remember in my view. If we can get 7 points before the New Year (feasible) and then go into the Brighton home game on the 2nd January with a bit more confidence and win, we'll be on 27 points.

With some clever trading (it will be, not incoming only), we should stumble through the season, win the FA Cup and regroup in the summer.

Circle the Wagons is about right.

Benitz selection of who he brings in Jan is crucial. There will be a big push to have him gone before then, as players try to lend a hand, as they have thoughts of staying in contention, In the back of their most minds. .

So what does he go for. It will have to be players that work with his loyal lieutenants in the squad and are loyal to Benitez. He also needs pace. So this would be older professional players. Ramsey is a Benitez type player and Wicks seems a goo prospect. But he also needs a versatile defend, so that he can drop a few underperformers.

He also would need to strengthen the people he has brought in at Finch Farm with support.

Brands was being used as a block on Benitez. It is a good job he is gone.

I look back at my first ever manager, more fondly than anyone else I ever came across in football, and simply because he encouraged me to play.

Most coaches don't add anything to your game, so I suppose you've got to do that for yourself, but Demari Gray won us the game on Monday night, with his willingness to run at and commit defenders, and I don't think you can blame confidence on his part, for why he never demanded a short pass, and drove towards the Crystal Palace goal?

Football is dead easy from the sidelines, it's probably the easiest game in the world, but even when you take the simple stuff out of the equation, it always boils down to how much confidence a player has got in himself, and when things aren't going well, how much confidence your teammates and your manager have got in you?

You have always got to assume that the man taking the kick might not get enough height on the ball imo, and so putting a player in front of everyone at the near post, can often turn a very poor corner kick into a goal?

You are so right, we are talking about the basics.

These players are experienced pros, they can't even do the simple things, pass and move etc, and our throw-ins are a farce, we almost all of the time, give the ball straight back to the opposition, yet they keep doing the same things every week.

It shows me the mentality they have; no wonder we are a mess.

But I come back to the manager who dug us out the mire last time.

Big Sam has the methods,skill set with Red Sam to dig us out the shit.

Hate him, despise him loath him.Less than Benitez by a million miles NOW!!After what Benitez has done to us.

I just know Sam would stand a bloody good chance of getting us half way up and safe.

He gave us some good monents if fans would admit it.
He never gave me experiences like Watford,Brentford,Palace.

He aint in a job??

He has a decent record from a terrible start and another crap bunch.
Yep he might have made a few bad signings, well Tosun??

Anyway we not in any position to be picky.

Anyone coming in will take weeks.

Sam could come in and get this lot in shape,not difficult.

Long term, thats another conversation.

But if Sam does us a Huge Favour, we owe him.

I cant trust anyone else who aint been in the scraps Sams been in.

Is it pretty, No, is it effective yep.

Do we need the points yep.

Get Ross back, at least he runs around.

No point is talking ourselves to a stand still.

Get on the way to 42points and more.

Then we can look at it.

Will he come.

Maybe, hes gotta be some sort of masochist, seems to like the challenge.

Hey Ho.Chelsea 2/4/6. us 1 maybe. Ronalu 3.

Act now,in the next week.At least tell Benitez its points, lots of points at home.Minimum of draws away.

Or else.

Cant stand much more of this after 60years.

I noticed during the Palace game how slow Everton throw ins where, with no players keen to make themselves available for the ball.

Everton's set pieces have gone to pieces. The ball in is woeful , except for the Townsend Cross for Richarlison. He overhit the next one in the Arsenal game , which is the norm.

Danny, don't pay over the odds for any Chelsea tickets!

Obviously I'm talking as if VAR was in existence back then. Surely a VAR official would have ruled the goal out for a foul?

Sure Everton got some breaks in 1994 and 1998. This year, goal difference may be a decider again. Leeds conceding 7 goals was good news.

After 53 mins a Sellars corner was headed towards goal by Taggart and on the line Blake clashed with Southall. The ball was kicked away by Phelan, and even though replays showed the ball had crossed the line the ref waved play on. Amid frantic appeals from both sets of players, Bolton for the goal and Everton for the foul on Southall, the ball was cleared. This proved to be the major talking point of the match with replays clearly showing that Southall was fouled and the ball crossed the line.

Blake thought he had put Bolton in front during a frantic spell of pressure at the start of the second half, the Welsh striker getting the better of Southall in a battle to reach a Gerry Taggart header to the far post. Bolton claimed with some justification that the ball crossed the line before Terry Phelan hacked it clear; Everton could argue with equal conviction that their goalkeeper was unfairly impeded.

I'm a self-confessed addict and fool when it comes to Everton. But that's why we keep believing... right?

As Tony has said, there are generations that remember Everton as a club built to win. One day, that's coming back and I intend to be there when it does. And more than that, I'll be more emotional and pleased for the lost generation(s), like my youngest brother and my son.

I'm good for Thursday courtesy of the very kind Brent. When I saw your post yesterday, I just know a couple of other London-based exiled Blues who could have been interested.

Brent, you know me well already!! Thanks for Sunday; really appreciated. See you at the next one; drinks on me of course!

Looks like Tosun and Rondon on Thursday night; if that don't fill your boots with lead, nothing will!

Gordon and Gray wide, launching balls in every 5 minutes (when we get the ball). Midfield of Allan, Doucouré, and Digne has to be back. I doubt Mina will be...

I'm not looking forward to it but it's Everton... probably win 2-0.

Having said that, my heart is telling me that the club we love needs a revolutionary leader brought in. Someone whose methods and ideas the players, coaching staff, medical team and fans will buy into. I think it would help if it was an ex-footballer who had played at a high level.

But that of course would require Moshiri to roll the dice again – would he be game enough to do that? The way things are shaping up, his hand may be forced.

The other question is who would want to take it on? Yes – we most definitely are in a dogfight.

I hope we have something to cheer us up tomorrow night but, at the end of the day, or season, it's all well that ends well.

I can't remember the foul, but I can remember seeing the ball go over the line, sitting in the same area of the ground as your good self, and my biggest memory of that night was being back home in Liverpool 30 minutes after the final whistle, after staying until the end.

There's no way I could do that nowadays with all those yellow speed restriction cameras all over the motorway. This type of VAR is probably an even bigger curse!

It was Bolton's first home game in their new stadium, and all roads around the stadium were absolutely gridlocked. We made the error of parking in the car park right outside the stadium, and it took what seemed an eternity just to get out of that!

1. There was no ambition and optimism upon the appointment of Benitez. It was always going to be a crap, difficult season – which is why he seemed to be the only person interested in the job. We've come off the back of 12th and 10th place finishes and worryingly huge losses mean we cannot spend.

2. Player for player on Sunday, it's debatable whether Palace had inferior players. At the very least, their options from the bench were definitely better than ours.

Laurie, to your point: we do definitely need an inspirational leader and that is not conservative, pragmatic, dull Benitez. But these sorts of people are attracted to well-run clubs which share their vision. Everton has no clear vision at all and is organised (if it is organised at all) for turmoil and mediocrity. There's a lot to sort out before a change of manager will do anything other than a brief spike in enthusiasm.

Seems like too many fans are quick to blast Benitez these days. Get behind the manager as well as behind the team.

I miss not going to the away games, I'm patiently waiting for my youngest, to get into going the game, but he's playing football every Saturday, and I'm the only one around to take him, because his mum is going to watch her older son playing football for Morecombe under 18's every Saturday, although I don't think I'm missing much at the minute.

You don't have to be Einstein to manage a football team Ian, and I wouldn't mind being called thick, if it gave me a football brain like Rooney.

I'm not sure what he's like on the other side of the fence, but one thing that really impressed me about Rooney, during Derby's last game of last season, was how calm he was when they went behind, in a must not lose game.

I don't think a stupid person would be able to remain so calm at such a time, and when his team got back into the game, he still remained very relaxed on the sidelines.

Again, I don't know a lot about this side of Wayne Rooney, but he always seems to be one of the lads, and also probably doesn't feel the need to have to prove himself, so maybe he would be a better number two working on the training ground, whilst Duncan Ferguson, might be more suited to being the number one?