Refereeing decisions that keep you awake at night

They both occurred when we were 0-1 down. Had we equalised, we might have lost.

If I wake up and start thinking about Everton, I try to turn my thoughts towards such things. Years of therapy have helped.

Would've been the winner but for a woeful ref to disallow it for no reason at all. I know we have had at least six derby decisions over the years but that one clear as day totally robbed us.

The Mick Lyons header, at the Park End, which was also mysteriously ruled out in the '70s.

More recently, the one which was disallowed in the Street End when the referee (was it Poll?) said he'd blown for full time (which TV proved he hadn't) and the clearly wrongful dismissal of Rodwell.

Also, the last-minute free-kick, which the ref allowed Liverpool to move 10 yards nearer the goal, from which they scored.

The Ferguson goal which was ruled out by Collina, who promptly retired.

The list is endless but I'm struggling to recall the six Liverpool ones you mention.

From my youth in the 90s, I'd go for Nick Barmby and his disallowed goal away at Highbury in January '97. We were playing well and it was nil-nil; if that goal had been allowed to stand and we'd got the win, then maybe, just maybe, it would have halted the slump under Joe Royle and prevented him from being allowed to leave only 2 months later.

Instead, the goal was disallowed, Arsenal ran away with the game and we were set back years by the appointment of the clearly washed-up Kendall and the dreary, depressing Walter Smith!

By the way, we should have known how depressing Smith was going to be when the very first thing he did was have the pitch at Goodison narrowed a couple of yards on either side because it was too wide!! No interest in using the space ourselves, oh no, just concerned with what the opposition might do to us.

Thomas and Collina will haunt my memories forever. I still hate the pair of them.

I can't look beyond! But here's a slightly less obvious one that caused me great pain at the time. Akin to being wounded.

I'm in Italy, watching with a friend who, although from Harrogate, is Liverpool sympathising due to his mother coming from Garston. Pure coincidence, although we didn't know each other until we met in the Army, his family and mine knew each other from them growing up in the tenements.

Anyway, it's late in the game and a phase of play works out that still gives me nightmares.

1. Everton should get a free-kick around the centre circle.
2. Everton don't get the free-kick and then a free-kick is given to Liverpool for reasons unbeknown to me.
3. Gary McAllister then blatantly moves the ball forward a good 10 yards to take the free-kick from where the non-free kick should have been taken from. It goes unchecked by the officials.
4. From a position that shouldn't have presented too much danger, he takes a pretty average shot from a fair distance.
5. Much talk on here the last 18 months of so-called happy clappers. Our keeper (Paul Gerrard?), was clearly happy clapping or happy flapping as he let the pretty tame shot bobble into the corner to give them the 3-2 win.

I was distraught for weeks after that and still think about it.

Come to think of it... horrible club.

Going for a walk.

You just know that if it was Liverpool's players running around celebrating that last-minute winner, there's no way he would have disallowed it.

Clive Thomas gets my vote as the biggest prick for disallowing Bryan Hamilton's goal.

Not sure who the ref was recently in the England v Italy game but how on earth was Chiellini not sent off and charged with assault on Saka? I can't stand England but that was a shocker.

Football officials hide behind a protective screen and even with semi-VAR are not held fully accountable.

Anyway, refereeing decisions. Where do I start!

Does anyone remember Pat Nevin getting brought down (by Ablett I think) in the first cup game before the 4-4 replay at our place?

If you don't remember it, try and find it on YouTube, an incredible decision.

Ray Crawford punching the ball into the net at the Gwladys Street end another blatant daylight robbery that gave Ipswich a 3-2 win.

Emlyn Hughes diving on the floor playing for Wolves resulting in Andy King, yes Andy King, getting sent off for a dangerous tackle. And another one from a derby game with Rodwell getting sent for a tackle that never was against Torres?

I was in the main stand surrounded by anthem-singing brain-dead Kopites. I'd long since blown my cover and was getting dog's abuse.

When Silvan rose above the RS defender to head home, I realised I wasn't alone. There was about 4-5 Evertonians around and they all jumped out of their seats, like rugby players in a line-out. Then the realisation of who and where we were playing. I looked straight for Oliver knowing he would do all he could to disallow it and, sure enough, he did.

Later he claimed Victor Anichebe had fouled the goalkeeper. When I looked at the replay that night and saw what a load of bollocks that was, I swore I would never go near the place again. The oath didn't last long, but that sickening feeling of us being cheated out of victory yet again still makes me want to strangle Oliver, the cheating bastard<./p>

Main Stand, Anfield, circa late 90s and I think it ended 1-1. Like you, cover blown early. Bit of banter and at the time we used to goad them about Man Utd's supremacy (rightly or wrongly).

Guy in front of me jumped up, clearly infuriated, screaming at the Evertonians in the Anfield Road, suggesting they should support their own city.

He may have had a point, but the irony of his East Midland accent wasn't lost on my smug grin at him biting like a trout on maggots.

James Adams was born in Edinburgh in 1864 (17 August or 8 December). He died on 24 April, 1943.
He joined Heart of Midlothian in 1885 and won the Scottish Cup with the Tynecastle side in 1891 as a right back. He moved to Everton in April 1894 but returned to Hearts for the 1896-97 season before retiring from the playing side. However he later became a first class referee before emigrating to the USA where he followed his trade as a mason, and died in New Jersey in 1943.

On the 20th December 1890 during a Scottish Cup quarter-final match between East Stirlingshire and Heart of Midlothian. A Midlothian player named Jimmy Adams punched the ball away from the goal from underneath the bar, preventing a goal but facing no real consequence.

This incident and other similar incidents prompted the lawmakers to adopt goalkeeper William McCrum's idea to award a penalty kick.

The first-ever penalty awarded officially in world football occurred just four days after the rule had been added to the Laws of the Game by IFAB, occurring on the sixth of June 1891. It was given to a team from Lanarkshire called Royal Albert who were playing against Airdrieonians at Mavisbank Park

Penalty Kicks

Jimmy Adams has a lot to answer for, I reckon that the neighbour's only formed due to the adoption of Penalties and they reckoned it would benefit them the most in the future, how right they were!

And then the repeated fouling of Lescott by Carragher in another derby.

Both incidents left you thinking that one team was allowed to play by a different set of rules.

The contrasting fortunes of us and the RS were cemented that day.

The legendary for wrong reasons Clive Thomas 1977, semi FAC, add Graham Poll, 2000, v the RS at GP, Klattenburgs failure to give a penalty against Carragher and alsowhen Kuyt had Kung fu kicked Phil Neville.

Lawrensons attempts to pull down Sharpies trousers in 1984 at our old ground, McMahons challenge the first game of the FAC, in 1988 when Wag scored the winner in the replay.

There's been loads, but these spring to mind.

What followed was beyond imagination.

For anyone who missed it, Mbappe was narrowly offside from a through-ball, but because the Spanish defender Garcia - in trying to cut-out the through-ball solely because of Mbappe's presence - touched the ball slightly it was deemed as a second phase of play in which Mbappe was now considered onside (as the last touch was by a defending player).

I know this is not the first time this particular controversial ruling has been made, but it is establishing a precedent that will almost certainly need to be addressed and revised. If not then there will be a point in the near future where an attacking player will deliberately take up hugely offside positions in the hope that a flick off a defender will leave them in on goal. Worse still you could have players trying to make through passes that intentionally are aimed to flick off a defender and rebound towards the unmarked (and previously offside and now onside) team-mate. It'll be like marbles.

From what I heard last night, the scenario you describe might not work that way in most cases. The key is in how you view and describe the defender's actions: "touched the ball slightly" – he clearly and deliberately stretched to play the ball.

Whereas, if they make a through pass that flicks or rebounds off a defender who is just in the way but not attempting to play the ball, and it goes towards the unmarked offside attacker, then he will still be deemed offside.

Which is crazy because the defender's natural intention is to do whatever he can to play (ie, stop) the ball. Whereas, if he adopts a statuesque pose (we used to have some of them) and it just glances off him, the attacker will then be deemed offside.

In reality, it occurs only rarely. It reminds me of the old rule where the defender is deemed to have played the attacker on. But why oh why do they keep messin wid da rule?

The handball rule has gone through so many iterations in terms of intent, natural body shape, silhouette, distance, tee-shirt areas etc – and offside faces the same battle to remove the grey areas of doubt and inconsistency, even with VAR.

Offside should largely be indisputable these days, and yet it's far from it. If the player in possession of the ball plays the ball forward to a team-mate, then if that team-mate is in a position – at that precise moment – where there is less than two of the opponent team's players between them and the goal-line, then they are offside – yet we've added so much room for interpretation and anomaly.

In terms of "phases of play", then I think it should be as simple as the player who is initially considered offside can only be active again by returning to an onside position; ie, with Mbappe last night, if he leaves the ball and a team-mate collects it and crosses to a now onside Mbappe to score, then it's a goal. I think advantage should be given back to the attacking side by bringing back "daylight" – which the VAR lines can genuinely achieve. But instead, I anticipate further complication and opacity from the powers that be.

If a defender is impeding an attacker without playing the ball, then to me that is obstruction.

I believe that obstruction was deemed an offence from 1948 until recent seasons and, as you say, the laws of the game have changed so many times since you and I started watching the game. Whatever has become of the sliding tackle? Alex Parker would be sent off every week in today's game.

That said, in the rush to preserve players at any cost, so much of modern football has long since gone wimpy, favouring actors, cheats and defenders who, whilst making to attempt to play the ball are given licence to obstruct the hell out of a player intent on attacking with it.

Yes, concussion and the after-effects of heading are not to be dismissed but, by now, I doubt any modern player ever played with a "casey" so any move to ban heading, another admirable skill, should be shelved outright.

The game will be more akin to five-a-side played by eleven. It will become a largely non-contact sport due to its growth in popularity in North America, particularly amongst women and children. And, dare I say, the increasing resort to litigation.

Heading the ball will be a thing of the past. The ludicrous plan of banning heading in training and practice but allowing it in competitive games will see this part of the game vanish. Youngsters won't be coached how to head a ball as safely as possible but will be, in theory, allowed to head in a game? Lewis Carroll couldn't have written a better scenario.

The game will be faster, more skilful and will appeal to more people. But not to dinosaurs like me.

Just my thoughts. Be gentle.

Carragher blatantly wrestling Lescott to the ground in the dying embers of the match in front of the Gwladys Street.

Nothing. Nichts as they say in German, Niente in Italiano!!

It is a foul and can result in further punishment from the referee. The only part of the game where you can shield the ball is when you have possession of the ball within a playing distance. However, shielding the ball is not allowed when the ball isn't within playing distance.

The argument is that the ball is within playing distance.

Come on blues be generous.

Not one of the usual bleating rs players, including Carragher, even appealed when Distin's header went in. Anichebe asked Oliver ‘Why?' and got booked for dissent. 2 minutes later, Gerrard gave a free kick away on the edge of their area and clear as day on MotD got right in Oliver's face calling him a ‘fuckin shithouse' ... twice! Of course, no booking for the DJ Beater. I've loathed Oliver ever since.

The RS have had refs in their pocket for 50 years, whatever it is they do for them, the mind boggles – money, drugs, drink, women? It's like a bloody cult!

Watch their last game at Anfield and tell me it isn't still happening.

I actually thought he has improved a lot as a referee. So much so, I was thinking I may be able to forgive and forget one day. Maybe in about 30-odd years time when I'm smoking a long pipe, chilling with all the other ton-uppers in the Himalayas.

But by reminding me of the incident with Gerrard and that the fucker actually booked Big Vic in an attempt to vindicate himself… You've just kicked any hope of his redemption right into touch.

Over these first 7 games, which clubs have/have not benefited from VAR decisions. We've benefited.

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Well said. I hated Thomas, a complete cheat after that decision in 1977 that cost us getting to a Cup Final. Also Robinson I think in 1984 that did not give us a penalty in the Milk Cup Final. Two horrific decisions that stopped us from having two big wins against those bastards.

He was anything but what his name suggests. I think he had a moustache, he would make his decisions then be on his bike, running away blowing his whistle letting the players know he was in charge; he could run as fast backwards as he did forward.

A good ref, though, in my opinion, and he added a bit of fun to the game.

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