Benitez and Rodriguez

I have to believe that any starting XI that Benitez fielded for Everton until he was billeted would've been better with James Rodriguez in it.

FFP is a different matter and not my concern. FFP is the concern of the Football Club and those who run it. And from what I understand, unless anybody can tell me otherwise, the sale of Rodriguez was initiated and instigated by Benitez.

Are we saying Dele Alli is on a pittance? And in that case what's changed?

You missed a vital ingredient in your criteria:

F. Fit/wants to play.

On that basis James cannot figure.

James played the same amount of games as Allan last season.

What's your point?

Neither are dependable fitness wise but Allan gives the impression he wants to play for us – capiche?

FFP is not my concern either, but Everton are though, and if the club were in danger of breaching the rules, then I think needs must, had to become relevant, especially with regards a player who was on an absolute fortune, but was always going to miss as many games as he played, meaning he just wasn't value for money, under the circumstances.

@ Tony. See my point re Dele Alli. You are addressing the Benitez decision to sell James Rodriguez. I've cited the fact he played as many games as Allan and I would personally say that his influence upon the team was more tangible than that of Allan. Then add to the mix that Allan cost a huge transfer fee and I doubt he is paying subs to play for us.

Then consider the wages of Alli and Donny van de Beek. Again. Must be huge money. And within 6 months we are complicit with FFP with these two players than we were with James Rodriguez. I don't believe that and won't have it for a second.

Benitez used the wage and the phantom of FFP to justify his decision making. There's nothing more to it.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Please. As I like to remain informed.

One source of evidence could be James spending more time taking pics of himself on a plane than Allan - only Judith Chalmers presenting "Wish You Were Here" comes near.

Next!!

How about that Allan has played the second-most minutes of any field player on the club this season (behind Keane)?

How about that he was leading the league in tackles when he was injured in December, and still has 11 more tackles than anybody else in the club?

How about that he never takes a minute off?

That good enough?

Although social media and the usage thereof by footballers who command millions of people interested in their updates, may be unpalatable to you, I would rather focus on what the players did on the pitch.

He played as many games as Allan. He cost £25M less in transfer fees. Their respective weekly wage is only reported.

Jame Rodriguez offered more to Everton than Allan did or does. That is my opinion.

I'm not suggesting that he was amazing. But I am suggesting that, in terms of ability (original post) he was probably one of the best we had, then he should've been retained. And it was only the pig headedness and arrogance of a certain crimson cheeked, vile and vindictive man that stopped this from happening.

I think you got it in your reference to "running around", as a start.

He hardly broke into a jog in order to place a first time pass to split a championship winning defence in two at anfield to assist a goal that would contribute towards us winning a game there for the first time in 20 years. Plus their targeted treatment of him in the Goodison Derby told a story in itself.

Or perhaps you'd rather we had one of the lads on a lower weekly wage running around loads like they did between 1999-2021?

You boxed yourself into a mad corner. Nobody disputes what a great player James was but he wasn't arsed about being here.

You conceded James absence issues by drawing comparisons to a similarly absent player. the problem is Allan's injuries seem legit whereas the eye-rolling excuse of "fatigue" from James almost beggars belief.

Pop in his legging it to the airport despite the season still being "live" and the conclusion is inescapable – he really wasn't that arsed about being here.

Sorry.

Typical over emotional Evertonian.

Who cares if he wanted to be here? He was world class.

In an ideal world you would want the buy in but in reality you take class as and when you can get it.

If there was a player who was half as effective in terms of creativity, who really wanted to be here, then where is he? Does he exist? What kind of fee are you paying for someone like that?

Every one of us would take a half-arsed Rodriguez ahead of a fully committed John Oster... all day long. And you'll never convince me otherwise.

As for you, Mike. Those statistics you cite are for a team in the relegation places. And although impressive against the context of his dreadful team mates, they are abysmal amongst the bigger picture.

Some stats re James Rodriuez if you're so interested

We never lost a cup game with him in the team

8 defeats in 26 premier league games when he played.

5 defeats in the 12 he didn't play.
6 goal

Only Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison scored more goals than him in the Premier League.

Only Gylfi assisted more.

11th in the league for chances created in 20-21 season.

Ancelotti didn't spend anything in his first transfer window.

Benitez spent £29 million on unproven full backs about 6 weeks ago.

Maybe Moshiri thought that Benitez could get more out of a squad (that included James Rodriquez) which finished 10 points behind 3rd placed Liverpool last season?

He also got rid of Digne, who was obviously breaking his back to stay, and I'd argue that the one thing that definitely happened under Benitez, was that Everton reduced their wage-bill?

As for Rodriguez, there's nothing you can tell me about him. No bigger James booster on TW than yours truly. Barry's not wrong, but his less-than-wholehearted commitment didn't bother me one bit. Arsed or not, I loved what he did.

That defence-splitting pass against them lot? Yeh, it was great. It was one of the four assists he made in his 23 appearances, along with his 6 goals.

Remember when he left and you asked me the question who would we get to replace his goals and assists? And how you bet me that Townsend (who I suggested would replace them for a lot less outlay) would score 5 or less?

Townsend has made 22 appearances so far with 7 goals and 3 assists. Works a lot harder than Rodriguez ever did but I admit his hair's not as nice and he's not as nice looking.

Time to replace the poster on your wall, Tommy. 😉

Good post. I recall that debate.

I too thought Andros would do okay as his creativity was stifled at Palace.

Certainly James produced some nice moments but for £250k a week? I more savor the industrious types who score the important goals, eg, Kevin Campbell when he arrived, or Pat van den Hauwe at Norwich.

James wasn't on anything close to £250k a week. That figure was published by the bullshit vendors at Football Insider. And it was glommed onto by a lot of folks here, but it wasn't true.

Haha – to be honest, I threw in that figure just to wind-up a few folks...

I only tease you cause I love you, mate – lol. I couldn't resist.

But if this isn't true, I wonder what was his real wage was every week, mate?

I'm of the opinion that Townsend and Gray's salaries combined wouldn't come anywhere near that but their combined goals and assists of thirteen goals and six assists offer much better value.

It's difficult to quantify (though I'm sure Jay Wood could find the stats) how much both of those players offer in effort, workrate, and overall contribution to the team but again I'm of the opinion that both would outweigh that of Rodriguez.

I have/had nothing against Rodriguez and some of the things he did were sublime, which I loved, but for me, they were far too seldom and he was a luxury we just couldn't afford (and not just financially),

"Barry
Typical over emotional Evertonian.

Who cares if he wanted to be here? He was world class.

In an ideal world you would want the buy in but in reality you take class as and when you can get it."

If not overly emotional about Everton, perhaps you should find another club or sport.

I care if a player wants to be here for the simple reason, if he doesn't, when the going gets sticky, he is more likely to hide, or in James's case, simply not turn up.

And no, you don't take class as when you can get it.

Plenty of reasons exist for supporters being more discerning than that. This is just another ill-considered platitude demonstrating you aren't actually aware of basic elements of football fandom. "Does the player actually want to play for us" is front and centre of the fan - player contract – hence the popular homily "No-one is bigger than the club".

Not that I expect you to understand; your wittering so far suggests footy might not be your first-choice sport.

I think the weather didn't suit him [I know how daft that sounds].
I think he struggled [a little] with the pace and relentless intensity of the PL.
I think he got niggling injuries through being kicked and pushed around; this led to him becoming frustrated and less willing to be 'on the ball'.

I think he would have relished being in Frankie's more attack-minded squad.

As for not 'tracking back' I remember an interview with Gerard Deulofeu when he said 'I was at Barcelona from age 8; for 10 years, every game I played we had 80% possession - what would I know about tracking back?!'.

Imagine the reaction of the Leeds defenders, if James had come on as an 'impact sub' at 60 minutes on Saturday? "Oh, Shit" would be the polite version.

I apologise [yet again] for using a cricketing analogy, but James reminded me a lot of Kevin Pietersen; often questioned for commitment; loved the high-life; could be a prat sometimes; but he could turn a 5-match series in 20 minutes... which no-one else could.

The word 'genius' is so often preceded by the word 'flawed'. We have to put up with some nonsense, in order to get those moments, that we will remember forever.

Rodriguez is in the top 5 players I have seen for Everton in the PL years. Up there with Kanchelskis, Arteta etc. A forward thinking coach would have played him as the number 10 in a 4-2-3-1 formation, with plenty of legs around him. The fact that Benitez couldn't accommodate him says more about Benitez, in my opinion…

We have not often seen truly world class players in an Everton shirt over the last 30 years - Kanchelskis, Rooney and James are the only three. It is all a bit ‘roundhead' to complain when we do have a gem like him in the squad.

Tony, interesting that Benitez didn't want to the three signings during the winter transfer window. Who decided to spend £30 million then on Patterson and Mykolenko? It wasn't the DoF or Head of Recruitment as those roles were vacant. Selling Digne during mid season to our nearest rivals whilst in a relegation battle was all him though.

Then you must agree that Townsend's and Gray's are excellent too?

It's true that Rodriguez WAS a superstar but he certainly wasn't at SUPERSTAR level when he came to us. It can't be argued that he did some great things but he didn't do them often enough. I think us Evertonians have been that starved of quality that some have gone a bit gooey eyed over Rodriguez and as we all know once some players leave Everton their performances for Everton (while they were here) improve as time passes.

Selective memory/rose tinted specs spring to mind.

I appreciate some, including the author of this piece might have a different opinion but surely the most telling evidence of his status is that not one major club came in for him after he left us. Not one. That's an awful lot of very good, experienced managers' opinions to ignore if you take the opposite position. Last time I looked, he was playing in an Arab league, which tends to be your destination before retirement.

But you've hit on a key point -- James came into a side that was utterly bereft of technical quality and brought truckloads of it. He made passes and dribbles that hadn't been seen at Goodison in years. And he won at Anfield. So of course some of us would be starry-eyed.

But not everyone. Even after Anfield there were still people here sneering at his lack of defensive effort. The devotion to industriousness here is equally starry-eyed. Players from decades ago I barely recall are still lauded for their work rate and declared underrated gems we'd love to have in the side today. Yesterday posters here were insulting Rodriguez while the podcast was paying tribute to Scott Gemmill.

Confuses the hell out of me.

The guy stands for many things that are vulgar about the money driven modern global Game, and money doesn't have to change you that much. The best player in the world came back for a season at Manchester in 2021. Our current manager is a respected name in European football, and he is a born and bred southerner that wanted to managed Everton.

James Rodriguez (talented or not) is a tosser. I'd rather another club pay his obscene salary. Good Riddance!

That being so I would conclude that either a) neither were willing to come close to that sum thus indicating their appraisal of his value, especially given he was effectively 'free' or b) they did come close but James priority is money over playing serious football.

Either way, it does not suggest we were wrong to get rid, however captivating he could be at times. Value for money is an issue here, you can't spend all- or too much- of your resources on one individual. Give me Gray any time on that basis...

...and what's worse, nobody mentioned Mark Pembridge. Sacrilege.

He also helped save the life of an opposing player who suffered a cardiac arrest. Positioned his head and cleared his airway while the medics were still on the way. So he's doing OK over there. Not exactly a "tosser".

Mark #40, yeah, at this point it looks like a good move. But in the final two months of Rafa, the wreckage in our midfield made me wish many times that he was still with us.

But, and here's the part I think I'm having trouble explaining properly but I'll try again.
Overall I don't believe the odd piece of magic he performed was/is as valuable as the overall performances of the likes of Gray and Townsend. True he "may" have done things that neither of those players could do ( and I loved seeing him do it honestly) but I still maintain that if there was a way of valuing (to the target of earning points) what he did then the two players mentioned are more valuable overall.
Last word on it though coz I'm even boring myself!!!! x

And if we'd been able to put in some decent free kicks once in a while!

The first few games of the season, he was brilliant, then Ancelotti spoiled him with his increasingly negative tactics after being scared following the Southampton defeat. Some of the early link up play between him and Digne (when Digne was playing as an overlapping full back and not being spoiled by the great one at wing back) was sublime. Which creative player wouldn't look poor when playing with 8 men behind the ball and 35% possession?

Every team needs graft, but the top teams also have players who have that bit of magic.

I heard that Donachie, was allegedly heard saying we will get this fella the sack, regarding Benitez, and I heard that Digne who was allegedly close to the physio, wasn't very happy, when it was his mate, who went first.

It's all water under the bridge now Brian, and although I backed Benitez, I'm glad he's gone now, because he got the blame for a lot of things that had nothing to do with him, and looking back I think it was impossible for Everton to move forward, with such a divisive figure managing our club.

It's early days, but Lampard seems to have United our football club, and my feelings are that Everton, are a much more powerful football team, when the crowd gets right behind the team, so let's hope this is the beginning of something special, because my favourite place in the world, (Goodison) definitely deserves to go out with a bang!

Tony#49

The whole of Finch Farm was mobilized against Benitez. It all came to a head that first International break. Benitez went when he realized he was not involved in transfers, which effectively took the road from under him.

Would they try to slip Donachie back in for a second time?

Steve#32

That is the million dollar question regarding transfers. I even think Lampard Oked the last loan with no other involvement.

Benitez then trying to spin the entire situation by claiming James wasn't fit for purpose – while sending a broken-down Rondon out for 90 minutes week in and week out – made a complete mockery of things.

Just as it did when he tried to drag Digne through the mud to save face. I'm just glad we've seen the last of him. And to think, if he'd just been marginally less terrible (ie, at least a draw against Norwich), he might very well still be here.

James came to Everton to play for Ancelotti, who he saw as his mentored with mutual admiration. If Ancelotti was at Watford, he would have gone there. As I have said before, probably many times on here, he was a fading superstar but still had more ability and class than anyone, then or now, at the club.

Do I watch football because of players who give everything they have got? No, I enjoyed watching someone with skill who can turn games and make you sing with delight. We used to be known as the School of Science, the place of skill. Under Benitez, it was more akin to a workhouse. Effort and desire will only get you so far; combine a skilful player with a team of committed players and you have a winning formula.

There was bad blood with the pair and only one was going to win; Moshiri had backed Benitez and could not back down, so it would have been a point of discussion at the selection interviews – how could it not be?

I read too that, as he came on a free, half his already agreed wages under his previous contract were being subbed by Real Madrid; that was the deal. And when Benitez came in, he was into his second year and Everton, now with Ancelotti gone, had a player who probably didn't want to be there – especially under Benitez – and a club who didn't want to foot the new bill – especially with a new manager who didn't want him. So it was always going to end in tears once Ancelotti walked.

But his value to Everton and the club's standing worldwide was immense, his skill raised others and won games. Everton with James under the current manager would have been a class act, but we got Benitez and a massive dollop of justification for getting rid of a No 10 by a dreadful manager as a money-saving exercise.

James was never replaced and ultimately, in my opinion, was the very reason Benitez failed and got the sack. His teams lacked the skill of a player to unlock other teams. The very thing James had.

He was never going to be a long term solution but he would have raised others around him, made Everton attractive to other good players and raised the profile and standing of the club in the football world.

Something Townsend or anyone else in Benitez's team could ever do. This is football, a business. Not entertainment.

Since they got Lampard by default (selected by fans), could it be that the January Transfer was also by default?

After all, every time they tried to look professional, they cocked it up, so maybe it all fitted together by default. The players that have come in are exactly the type of players that Lampard would want.

That January Transfer window was the best in over 20 years and cost nothing.

Christine you make a lot of presumptions in your post without knowing the actual truth of many of them. Not like you, Christine; there are two sides to every story.

I think you are concentrating on just one of them, following your heart and not giving your considerable brain a look in.

I'm definitely one who believes that Everton needed the Rodriguez wages taken from the wage-bill, Christine. My reasons are that, for such a divisive manager to be given less than £2 million to spend last summer, then this definitely points at cost-cutting measures being implemented at the start of the Benitez reign.

Donny van de Beek has looked decent in his one start, Dele Alli in his two short appearances has to refind his form of 3 years ago. The two young fullbacks have not set the world alight and El Ghazi has had about 15 minutes of football.

Thank God Frank's joined to cure all that damage that Rafa did in 6 months, after all those years of success before the Kopite shithouse ruined us.

It's important for us Blues to keep a sense of perspective and to look reality in the face.

Lampard is going to be a proper manager for us because he has the full support of the players and the fans (and because he's very talented). Shame that neither we nor the players could be bothered to extend the same courtesy before now.

Things were falling apart in the last weeks (months even) of last season, and the signs were being picked up and splattered all over social media and the world of clickbait well before the end of the season.

I thought that subsequently there was a story floating around that confirmed James Rodriguez had had enough of Everton and wanted to leave well before Ancelotti jumped ship into the Real Madrid lifeboat? So there was never any chance of him playing seriously for Benitez.

Although, to confound this picture, Rodriguez played in every pre-season game and seemed to be doing everything he could to show that he was a team player, maybe in response to the stinging criticism of him; it might have been more in character if he had gone AWOL at that point.

We'll probably never know the real story and, even if we do, it won't matter by then; the relevance of such things lies in their immediacy, in the moment. And when that moment is gone, it's gone forever.

Criticism of him escalated because our results were particularly shite, the worst run for some time. And his man-management relating to Rodriguez and Digne was very questionable. But throughout his short tenure here, most people openly recognised the positive effect of his bringing in Gray and Townsend, whilst also criticising the signing of Rondon. Based on performance.

Best not to rewrite what actually happened. If you didn't extend a courtesy to Benitez, say so, but don't put everyone in that category.

Michael, your second and third paragraphs @ (58) indicate a different story to the way Christine blamed Benitez for James leaving Everton, my own belief was that James, as Christine acknowledges, was a fading star and no club of any top stature was interested in signing him and he finished in a no man's land of football but where he wanted to be financially, money is his goal and has been for the last few years football is not his priority, doesn't make me right but that's what I believe.

As for his time at Everton, he got me off my seat a few times when he showed real quality but never did it often enough throughout the season and I thought at the end of the season he took Everton and Ancelotti for granted and threw his hand in like he did when decided he was injured versus Newcastle and walked off the field.

For those who mention the Liverpool game at Anfield, yes he was very good for the time he was on the field and he helped us win the game with the rest of the side because it was a team effort with everyone who played that day contributing to the victory, he did more than make the pass for the opening goal just as Pickford and his defence did for the ninety minutes or more they were on the field.

The Colombian has gone without a backward glance but the arguments will linger on long after Goodison Park has gone and Bramley Moor continues our story.

I think Lampard is the right man for us but I thought the response to Benitez's management was graceless and, therefore, most unEvertonian.

Maybe it's better you post without irony or sarcasm because I can't understand the point you are making?
Stan, well done for your reply.

Still like to hear what Tony is actually getting at.

"He was never going to be a long term solution but he would have raised others around him, made Everton attractive to other good players and raised the profile and standing of the club in the football world."

Disagree entirely.

Imagine being an Everton player hearing James isn't playing again because of "fatigue"? I've been in enough dressing rooms to know indulgence or special treatment of players is a prelude to toxicity the changies would be a war zone in no time.

If he couldn't attract a decent club on his exit how could he attract "other good players"? Within the football world his card had been well and truly marked.

Undoubtedly a joy to watch but fragile physically and mentally as demonstrated by Carlo not taking him back to Madrid.

He just wasn't up to the job as he wasn't in Spain and Germany.

Christine, keep looking through your rose coloured glasses at times, especially these days, you'll see a much better view than we've seen for most of this season, maybe Lampard will enable us to throw glasses away because I have used them a few times myself. Best wishes girl hope your health is improving and victories like last Saturday gives you a welcome tonic.

Yes, the initial resistance was ‘significant', but not as significant as the broad acceptance of his appointment. Acceptance without enthusiasm from everyone, yes, but acceptance nonetheless.

For you to focus solely on those who vehemently didn't want him from the outset is very unfair to and unrepresentative of the majority of fair-minded Evertonians who were happy to give him a chance based on results.

Indeed, the first few games had decent results, and most comments on this site were supportive, quite a proportion being enthusiastic. Support dwindled and turned to criticism because of bad results and questionable man-management. That's a fact.

I say the same about Allardyce's tenure. I appreciate, however, that I am in a tiny minority and I will not comment again in this vein.

I fully understand that we have moved on and that we are united behind Lampard. Let it be so.

Yes, a minority of supporters can disappoint in their actions, and it's fine to say that. But it's not fine to tar all with that brush.

I could be premature, but in the context of Lampard's style of play they fit in well. Other transfer windows hadn't the potential to change Everton for the better as these additions do.

It remarkable how good that transfer window was imo. Of course the proof is in how they fit in. I am expecting that they will. There will be hiccups like Newcastle as Lampard finds the strength and weaknesses of players. But he does have the chance of finding the right balance in the team and developing a effective team.

I have never felt as hopeful since I watched Arsenal v Everton in Oct 1984 at Highbury.

It was fun to have him. Bit embarrassing to treat him like a coup though when no-one else wanted him.

There are up and coming versions worth taking a risk in in their teens, but I'd rather we don't pick up any more broken ones.

We move on.

If Frank transforms results with essentially the same players criticism of Benitez will have proven correct if not perhaps Benitez was right to ruffle a few feathers as a prelude to change. We will soon know

The wall of silence and absence of tangible support from the board left the manager isolated and undermined. Hopefully the lessons will be learned and when Lampard runs into problems, as he certainly will, the club and supporters will stay firmly behind him.

We are far from the only club hard hit by injuries this season. You only have to look at how Leeds and Leicester have struggled without key players. Plainly the smaller the squad the more likely it is injuries will have an impact on results. We started the season with a smaller squad than we needed. Belatedly that was addressed in January with the addition of five outfield players.

The goal at anfield only happens because we had the quality of Rodriguez. We have been on the wrong end of results against the top teams due to them having players that can do something that others can't. It was nice to have him in the team knowing we had a match winner.

A team is made up of many parts. I appreciate players like Paul Power, Dave Watson, Barry, Neville and their level of professionalism but players like Rodriguez, Rooney, Beardsley, Sheedy, Kanchelskis get bums off seats and add the X factor I just wish we had more of them.

Regarding Benitez, He was a disaster on so many levels. He might well be a great bloke but totally the wrong person for the club.

What makes you think he was not our top earner? What sort of agent do you think would allow that to happen to one of the most decorated 29-year-olds in world football?

I don't know what the structure of the deal was, but I am confident that the decision to bring James Rodriguez to Everton was ultimately a risk that backfired (or was about to) - financially as much as anything else - and that Benitez was basically told that, whether he wanted to use him or not, James needed to leave the club before he kicked another ball for this club.

You and others seem to have forgotten that we finished just 10 points off automatic qualification for the champions league last season.

That what Benitez inherited.

The summer was not the result of a failed regime, it was the result of Ancelotti leaving us high and dry. Many would agree that the recruitment under Ancelotti in the summer of 2020 was largely successful.

Maybe there was an expectation that this self proclaimed world class manager Benitez would be able to consolidate our standing with the squad he inherited. Perhaps the board wanted to stop spending on transfers when it had just seen the squad finish 10 points off 3rd place.

Maybe there was an expectation that under Benitez that form would not tail off towards the end of the season (because Ancelotti was already being lined up for the Bernabeu) and that he may do even better with that squad of players. They may have even had the expectation that Benitez may have even had a pop at a domestic trophy with that squad.

Instead, without knowing the reality of the situation, some on here assume that Benitez could not spend in the summer because of James Rodriguez and his weekly wage.

The same summer that saw the offset of huge wages in the form of Besic, Bolasie, Walcott and Bernard.

Even if the stats being quoted for Andros and Gray are designed to be impressive and defeating of the effect of JR at Everton, the reality is that their stats have only contributed to one of the worst 6 months of top flight football in Everton history. Compared to the first 6 months of JR at Everton which may take us to roughly the beginning of March 2021 and us defeating West Brom to put us briefly 4th in the table.

I believe that financially Gray and Townsend could well have been purchased with Rodriguez remaining at the club. Under a better manager and maybe under a more dignified man, he may well have done.

But it had to be the Rafa Benitez show. It had to be his horrible system of ultra defensive and ineffective stodge, looking to grind out results on the off chance his team is able to launch one successful counter attack per game. It's not the first decade of the 21st century and honestly and thankfully, the game has moved on and evolved far beyond anything he could be successful amongst.

Regretfully, this man denied me the opportunity to watch James Rodriguez at Goodison in an Everton shirt. Regardless of others opinions on the player, I am very certain of my own and I would've loved to have seen this.

Regretfully still, we haven't received and I think we are owed, as a fanbase, an apology from whoever sanctioned the appointment of Rafa Benitez as manager of our football club. We really do deserve an apology for this.

(I do consider the signings of Gray and Townsend to be successful).

But he was Moshiri's pick from a very small, poor, pool.

I said if he got results I wouldn't hold the rs stuff against him - well how could you, it's a results game after all.
But from day one, the rs brother in law marked his card and more or less predicted how he'd roll - Zonal, Stubborn, etc and added then again you might get lucky, but his heart wasn't in it.

Which we did for a few games.

He didn't get sacked for being a rs, he got sacked for being totally shite...even for a rs.

It all ended, as most predicted - tears.

It seems entirely plausible to me that Everton decided to sign players that the manager didn't want when we didn't even have a DoF or Head of Recruitment in place. Perhaps Moshiri and Joorabchian made the decision.

That is how dysfunctional we have become. We need a 2-3 year spell of normal thinking by adults to get over it.

Players like Gray and Townsend get you into the top half of the table, whilst players like James get you into the Champions League. There is a vast gulf in talent between them.

The fact that fans applauded the sale of James and welcomed Andros Townsend as his replacement shows the extent to which our expectations have declined.

I think we as fans have been so conditioned by the average, sweaty dross that we have seen filling Everton shirts for 30 years that we are uncomfortable seeing true talent in the team.

You obviously follow his career closer than I do, fair enough. I merely looked up his stats for his new club and thought, hey ho.

I stand by my comments all the same and 3 goals in 8 appearances in a very minor league is hardly anything to get excited about for a player of his undoubted ability.

And I didn't call him a tosser. I don't do personal insults.

What pisses me off is that we have a squad unable for years to even get close to the enterprise regularly shown by Andros and Gray in shooting with venom from distance.

Cue the perennial questions of Finch Farm – just what the fuck do they do there, and why?

Your anointed one is to me so very redolent of Duncan McKenzie, another expensive bizarrely gifted player almost always unable to impose himself on a match of any real consequence.

(And just how the hell McKenzie has a place in our so-called Hall of Fame is totally beyond me, to say the least.)

Andrew #70, I didn't say he wasn't our top earner (of course he was). I just said he wasn't making anywhere near 250K. And yes, I would say it's entirely credible for a player in danger of losing his cherished national team place to take a pay cut and go to a "lower" club in order to play for an idolized manager who might help him revitalize his career. I've seen older athletes do it many times, most recently in the NFL where two such examples helped the Rams win the Super Bowl.

James #74, I know you didn't. I was addressing that particular remark from Joe at #39. Wasn't blaming you.

Barry #65: "I've been in enough dressing rooms " Really? What pro sports dressing rooms have you been in? Having spent a fair amount of time there myself in my "journo" days, I would say that special treatment of players is the norm, not the exception, and when properly handled causes no such "war zone".

Don Alexander @75: Nothing to do with idols, Don, more to do with quality. If the measure of a player is solely to work hard but never inspire, then look at Everton, although it has to be said that, even on that particular measure, they stopped working.

On fading stars, Dave, Rooney came back and was the highest scorer in the club and he only played half a season. He should never have come back but he did and his class was still better than anything we had. Which brings me on to the next little one...

Barry...

This club is a direct reflection of the way the club has been led, managed and controlled for the past 20 years. The culture that has been allowed to grow is one of entitlement of the previous owner and incompetence of his successor. As a direct result, we have seen the quality of players joining the club, and wanting to join the club, drop like a brick.

Which is why, and sorry Darren but this one is a long time coming, Ancelotti was a statement of intent; James coming in was a confirmation that Ancelotti would bring European football, the profile of the club would be high, players would want to be a part of it and would see a club on the rise.

It didn't happen, Ancelotti left (bad grace in my opinion), leaving James behind. James was never good enough to go to Real Madrid with him, but he was certainly good enough for Everton. (Light years away from Real Madrid, aren't we?)

That's the problem... we have fallen so low, we are not going to get established stars in their prime. A raft of journeymen and those on their way out; not the top table.

Ancelotti didn't have enough quality in the team we had to get us into Europe; we still don't. But where we are now is not Ancelotti's fault, or Benitez's, or Koeman's (I bit my tongue then) but the management and control of the decision-making in this club.

Half a billion pounds down the toilet and we are worse now than 5 years or 10 years ago. There is no getting away from that and, despite Lampard being appointed, with relegation threatening, we should not be losing sight of the reason we are where we are – and why.

I have been posting and writing articles for nigh on 17 years on TW. It's been sodding depressing looking back. And I am fed up with it because, no matter how badly we are treated, we are taken for idiots every time. James was never the answer to our prayers, but he was a reminder why we were once called the School of Science.

There is nothing joyous or pragmatic accepting where we are today. We can only look ahead to the days when hopefully we can attract quality once more.

Thank you for the best wishes. Healthwise, I had encouraging results from cardiology this week so, as long as I stay stress-free, I should be okay...

So, stuff that for a game of soldiers, I am an Evertonian. Even my GP (from Liverpool and a RS fan) had mocked me in his diagnosis report with respect to staying stress-free, not a hope in his opinion unless I stop supporting Everton. Well, that's never going to happen, so rose-tinted glasses it is.

I think it's heartbreaking that for 27 years we have had to endure the crap that's been served up to us. That a whole generation has never seen a trophy, that a chairman thinks and says in response to questioning, we have had good times.

That we have come to accept mediocrity as the new level of acceptance as fans. I haven't and never will. I don't care if a player is on mega bucks or peanuts, he is playing for Everton. I want him to perform to the best of his ability, be played in the right position, to have the support of his manager. I want a team that has star quality as well as older players who can do a job.

I don't want a team that when a transfer window comes around no other club is interested in them. (How many Everton players were on other managers' wanted lists? One? Two? None?)

I want a fanbase – so long devoid of quality to watch – to delight around players who excel and understand that a team is made up of squad players who support and do their job too.

I want to go to the match and smile and, if and when I die, someone sends the funeral costs to Bill Kenwright. He put me there!

On Matchday 25 last season, a James-inspired Everton beat Liverpool 0-2 at Anfield to reach 6th place on 41 points – one more than Liverpool. After 25 matches this season, we are 16th on 22 points – 32 points behind Liverpool.

It is self-evident we were a much better side with James in the squad.

"But Dave Abrahams, the Godfather of TW..."

I'm flattered my moniker stuck!

The Patron Saint of TW, The Mage of Merseyside, Harold Matthews, smiles down.

And Christine "Holy Mother of TW" Foster, I hope you're well. Your heart actually is wonderfully bipolar. It has to give up Everton to reduce stress, while simultaneously loving Everton and unable to let go.

This thread has pitted the archetypical Father against the archetypical Mother, and I've no clue who won the argument.

Godfather vs. Holy Mother respectfully debating. Might be the best thread ever.

ps: James was a continually injured man who was wonderfully gifted and a joy to watch, but in the end didn't have the heart to soldier on, and left me thoroughly disappointed and bitter at what could have been.

"What is another shovel of dirt on Benitez's grave going to get at this point?"

A chance for fresh flowers to grow and flourish, and that includes Forget-Me-Nots! :-)

Was it your heart, your head or rose-coloured spectacles at play when you backed him as he led the club on the worst run since Mike Walker?

No winners in this debate for I fully understand Dave's perspective but look at it differently. What could have been.

For me, we cannot make the leap to the top table without the right ladder to get us up there. That means the right manager and the right players, of course, but there are half a dozen rungs on that ladder, and at each one, we have to improve the playing staff. At each rung too, we know that the players have to improve or be replaced with something better.

James for me was another rung on the ladder, not worthy of a place at the top anymore but still far in advance of what we had.

Jamie, thank you for your best wishes, much appreciated! But to paraphrase a line from Peter McGovern's "In my Liverpool Home" with reference to my heart while debating all things blue... "The spirit was willing, the flesh it was weak!" You need a stout heart to be a blue!

I have to admit I so wanted Benitez to succeed but never thought he would. As often said here, it's the hope that kills you.

He was right in some things: the club needs shaking up and becoming more accountable, but his methods were outdated, his attitude arrogant, and he lost the fans and the players with the results. We all want to believe but hope is never enough.

Even against Norwich, you cannot play with 10 men and we were punished. Sure he had a volley last week when 3-0 up but he has no future at Everton; he is past this level. El Ghazi has never been at this level and will be sent back at the end of the season.

I love the way Frank has gone about his business; he will sort the wheat from the chaff and bring in more quality. Like all managers we have, I support them while they are here but I have much more belief in Lampard. The irony is Digne would have been an exact fit for his style of football and we lost him due to Rafa's stubbornness.

Benitez gave the fans the finger when it was clear the likes of Dobbin and Simms needed bringing in, even off the bench. He was probably gutted when we drew at Chelsea with the kids.

The team got results playing a certain way, but got footballed off the pitch against Burnley and relegated Fulham, then lost to the worst team in the Premier League in another appalling “home” game.

You like Rodriguez, I get it, Tommy; you hate Benitez, I also get that... but I think Everton would have been around mid-table at least (where Ancelotti left us) but for the dreadful run of injuries we got to some of our best players, and I dread to think where we would have been without the goals from Townsend and Gray.

Yesterday has gone; I just hope it doesn't return with regards to our transfer policy, Steve B, and after reading what Lampard says about a Director of Football, then hopefully we have better and much more professional times ahead.

He was disliked at Chelsea but still got success without being embraced by the supporters and I hoped for a similar outcome. He is set in his ways but outdated, a marriage of convenience, never a love affair.

Regardless of the coach, it will be interesting to see if this squad can maintain a run of good performances. Lampard is making all the right noises but many of these guys have shone fleetingly only to fade for various bosses.

Competition for places and a meritocracy with reward for good training will hopefully keep them all keen.

For me, all players have a fresh start. Keane, Holgate, Kenny, Iwobi and (even) Rondon looked the part last week. If Frank's picking them, then at the moment that's for good reason. If they play shite for 2-3 games (from here) and still get picked, I'll have a different view. Let's see how they do under a less micromanaging coach.

IFWT... COYB

Yes, I think we understand each other perfectly where our love of Everton is concerned and those 27 years you speak of have taken their toll on both of us.

If in the future we get that meeting watching Everton, we can cry on each other's shoulders for about 10 minutes then watch the game. It's got to be a win and then we could settle down with other Blues at a ToffeeWeb meeting and enjoy the rest of the night, having a good happy time.

I'll put my shawl on and we'll have a good gab about life in Liverpool and all the mad, crazy happy times it was to be with lovely people in a mad crazy city that was Liverpool. So glad you are getting on with your life and not letting things get you down.

Steve (81) yes you could be right about me wearing rose-coloured glasses over Benitez, but to be truthful, he came with a job to do and a mandate agreed with Usmanov more than Moshiri; he started decently against moderate or low-placed teams, it must be said.

Then injuries and suspensions hit the squad badly. He made many mistakes, playing an unfit Rondon a big one, but he never made as many mistakes as the players, they cost us more points than he did, IMO, ultimately he wasn't backed by the owners and was sacked.

Who knows who he had lined up in the January transfer in window? That's gone so no use worrying about it. I'm happy that Lampard and his back-up coaching staff are in place; let's see if they can finally get us on the road to recovery.

By the way, Steve, I stood by Benitez because I think he is a genuine man and deserved backing, the backing he never got off the people who knew how he was going to go about managing Everton; again that is in the past.

"Having spent a fair amount of time there myself in my "journo" days"

So you were visiting rather than participating - great insight - almost as good as me visiting 20+ pro changing rooms as a contractor.

It matters not a jot whether a team is pro, amateur or pub league esprit de corps is essential. A champion player putting it in week in week out may well be the unofficial king of the changing room but once he starts taking the piss (James took the piss here) someone is eventually gonna put him up agaist the wall.

Not that you would see that waltzing in for a few mins with a notebook wittering "great game, Chuck, now the readers want to know what's your favourite colour?"

Get real ffs

"If you keep picking, it'll never get better."

Hindsight is wonderful.

Turn the page...

I hope you are keeping well John I know you have had plenty of medical problems over the last few years but still manage to get to see the Blues and the ToffeeWeb meetings whenever they are arranged, well done there John, very best wishes.

Benitez was a soft touch to get rid off compared to Ancelotti, Silva, Big Sam, Koeman and Martinez. In the case of Benitez, they were prepared to risk the destruction of Everton in the Premier League in their quest.

Lampard has full fan support and the capablity was always there to avoid relegation at Finch Farm. Though the turnaround will not be immediate this time. But, if Lampard shows ambitions of progressing beyond midtable without enough changes in players with loyal ones and being able to effect change at Finch Farm, he too will struggle.

Hopefully he has learnt from his Chelsea dressing room experiences.

A nice way to look at it.

Also. Not sure how my comment on another thread became a thread of its own here.

Can anybody shed any light?

I've named Dave Abrahams in many previous posts "The Godfather of TW" not as banter, but a sign of respect - to be crystal clear on that point.

Michael somewhere picked up on it.

There's no banter in that "title". Dave is a trough of wisdom, I love his posts, and he's been on TW forever and is wise beyond his years.

I have often said that we could both go to a match and see a different game, and I suppose that can be said of the written word.

Yes, Dave I still manage to get to the games, the difference is that Josh, who I looked after for the last 10 years, is 17 and now looking after me... where have the years gone?

I have been fortunate enough to attend every get-together, 5 in all, and [if you can allow me to boast] I am the only ever-present since we celebrated my 80th birthday in the Central Hotel on World Cup day in July 2018.

My ambition used to be to wake up tomorrow; it's now been amended to 'Watch the first match in the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock' – ideally, in the next seat to you, in the "Old Boys Pen".

Written words can be difficult to decipher the tone in them sometimes.

These titles I've used in the past for Dave, Christine, and Harold Matthews (RIP) are, for me, a sign of respect. They're the only three people I've messed around and slapped a title I see as fitting on TW. Their contributions, in the main, are my favourites, spoken with intelligence, wisdom, dignity, and class almost always.

No-one reading these should think otherwise. If the reader deviates from my meaning and intent, they're dead wrong.

Again, just to be crystal clear.

I ask because I seem to recall in a past debate that you said you tried to base your remarks on evidence rather than emotion (and I agreed with you that that's a good thing to do), and also because I haven't seen any evidence of Rodriguez ‘taking the piss'.

On the contrary, I saw this player causing some excitement amongst Evertonians, possibly because of our getting brassed off watching mediocrity for so long.

As for the late lamented Harold Mathews, I think a lot of us miss his well-read posts, one of the stand-outs was when he was in the army and attended a show which had the famous “Memory Man", Leslie Welsh, answering questions on any sports, Harold caught him out and Leslie failed to answer Harold's question.

Harold wrote home to his mother about this and she told all the family and the rest of the street about this and it was coming on the radio pretty soon. The whole street listened in to the show but they bleedin' cut the part out with Harold and his question!!

I still chuckle now and again about that post of Harold's who was a very good amateur footballer and certainly had a vast knowledge of the sport he loved.

Glad to see Josh is looking after his grandad, I liked Josh from the couple of meetings we had together, I don't have to tell what a well mannered boy he was and he used to quietly smile to himself listening to the stories you'd tell me about following the Blues over the years.

How is he regarding the bad injury he suffered last year, is he back playing again? Hope he is okay, tell him I was asking about him and wish him well.

I gave the evidence earlier but to recap he didn't actually play very much for us and one of his excuses was "fatigue". I don't think I've heard that from any pro footballer, particularly one who hardly played from other alleged injuries...

Allied to the fact he was on jets photographing himself during his maladies as the season was live, I can't see how his actions can be interpreted any other way.

Lovely player but with a history of not playing in Spain, Germany and now here. The idea he could be pivotal whilst not playing is almost a definition of madness. But the real rationale behind the martyrdom of James is it can be used as a stick to beat Benitez. Weirdos.

Josh is well on the road to recovery, he was injured on 10 November and had to attend several hospital appointments, he was discharged a couple of days before Christmas, and is now undergoing physiotherapy.
He missed a few home games but returned for the Brentford FA Cup game, and is going to Southampton tomorrow weather permitting. I will pass your message on to him, meanwhile I would like to thank you on his behalf.

He returned to his college to watch their game, and the referee on the day he was injured was there, and said that it was the most reckless challenge he had seen in 20 years of refereeing.

It's a different game from our playing days, we tackled with the inside of the foot or the instep when in playing distance; nowadays, they are launching themselves from yards away with the studs showing. I'm not surprised that so many players are injured in training.

"It matters not a jot whether a team is pro, amateur or pub league esprit de corps is essential."

Maybe in your fairy-tale amateur world, pal, but in the real world it matters one hell of a lot that there are millions at stake rather than postgame suds.

Yes, I've spent plenty of time as a participant (probably more than you since I played regular league footy from 1972 to 2019), and giving people special treatment in an amateur or pub club where everybody's equal and there's nothing at stake is NOT the same thing as giving top players special privileges in a professional locker room.

Pros understand that their chances of winning titles and making big money not only allow for but may actually rely on treating the stars differently, on an individual basis. The Chicago Bulls gave Michael Jordan days off to go play golf and gamble. He won them six championships. Did the other Bulls rebel? Fuck no. He was making them rich and famous.

NFL quarterback Tom Brady won 7 Super Bowls, the last at age 43. He barely practiced the last ten years of his career. Did it injure his teams' esprit de corps? Not according to the way they were dancing at their championship parades. And in their next contract negotiations.

Did the other Everton players resent James because he was handled with kid gloves? Maybe, maybe not, but you haven't the slightest fucking idea. You can sneer and snark all you want, but the fact is you don't have a clue, do ya? And if you really, truly believe that the social dynamics are the same in a locker room full of millionaire professionals as they are in your porky pub club, you never will.

So take a hike, pal.

You are utterly clueless. "A champion player putting it in week in week out may well be the unofficial king of the changing room" is what I said negating every sentence of your overlong bluster.

Even my limited knowledge of American sport recognises the value and effort of Jordn and Brady compared to James at Everton.

Stop embarrassing yourself you really have no idea and refrain from refencing my football history you definitely have no idea about that.

Pal.

We still get together occasionally, and one of my lunatic mates, who I've seen fly into some of the most ridiculous crazy tackles, always gets Pat van den hauwe, and tries to get me to tell Pat, that he'd have destroyed him in a 50-50 tackle.

Pat just shakes his head and shrugs his shoulders, whilst I tell my mate, he wouldn't have stood a chance the way he used to tackle, but it's all good fun, even if my lunatic mate is genuinely convinced he would have put Pat, in hospital😂

I think that you're the only one to have used the terms ‘pivotal' and ‘martyrdom' in relation to Rodriguez. Me, I've focused only on the evidence that was before my eyes, that he was a very good (unusually entertaining) and useful player for us.

Why do social media debates often involve polarised extreme terms and phrases? Like ‘taking the piss' and ‘martyrdom', with a dash of ‘pivotal' and ‘weirdos'?

I spent hundreds of hours in conversation with professional athletes, coaches and managers. What you call "waltzing in" is something I did 60 hours a week for 15 years.

You didn't.

And you've never spoken to anyone in the Everton locker room about the reaction to James there. So you're the one with absolutely no clue about what you're asserting about him and the club.

And yes, I'm pretty confident that 47 years of amateur football gives me a bit of insight into that too. How long you play?

You probably should cork it at this point. You're not looking good, pal.

Sorry, Stan, but it is your assertion that his absence from games quoting fatigue and jetting off whilst the season is still on is not evidence of taking the piss?

I feel quite safe in suggesting you are in a very small minority.

Even when I don't agree with you, you always put forward your views in a well-reasoned way. I doubt the day will dawn when you need to apologise for expressing your point of view.

As you already know. I do disagree with you on several points here, although the ability of James to delight isn't one of them.

I don't believe there is a cat's chance in hell of James following Carlo to Watford. They simply could not have paid him enough – come to think of it, they could not have paid Carlo enough either. Anyway. This thread is more about the player than his managers.

I believe James Rodriguez did what James Rodriguez does when he signed for Everton: he took the best offer on the table. He may have taken a pay cut to come here, but the contract was new and therefore better than the one he had which was running out and not going to be renewed.

I think the contract has long since been more important to James than the football. He wouldn't be where he is now otherwise. Sure, he loved the game one time and Carlo's gamble in signing him was one worth taking. Unfortunately, he was already making the transition from part-time world-class footballer to full-time Champagne celeb.

I have no axe to grind with Rodriguez. His body had started to let him down so he started to trade on his name... Fair play to him.

I have a feeling that, if we were having this debate in the wedding house 40 years ago, the towel would have been long since on. The doors long since locked and you and Dave would be having this debate in a less than sober state.

I believe Dave is right in this instance. If the debate ever happens face to face, I think your best chance would be to go for the early surrender.

Make him pay for the drinks.

Neither have you. What a bizarre chap you are

"And yes, I'm pretty confident that 47 years of amateur football"

Ahh! thanks for confirming your pro changing room experience really is just a walk-on part as a scribe and your actual footy experience is akin to most – amateur!!

For a fleeting moment the gist of one of your previous buffoon moments suggested you were going to regale the class with tales of your time as a top-level pro. Perhaps more fantasy about being just a dodgy metatarsal from a golden boot ??

Stand down, sailor – you are hanging yourself with your own petard. Funny though.

Armour plated

I liken the hamstring to an elastic band, something that can only take so much tension. In earlier times, hamstring injuries were few and far between and, apart from broken bones, the cartilage was the dreaded misfortune, taking months to be remedied – matters have improved greatly in that regard.

Toe injuries were non-existent, the first time I came across the word 'metatarsal' was when boots were exchanged for the slippers of today. Apologies but I did warn you that I am a member of the elite fully paid up Dinosaurs.

You think the 60s ones were like slippers, my last pair of adidas about 4 years ago were pathetic, like silk slippers. I took to just playing in my socks until I did my metatarsal which may or may not have been related to that choice. That was the end of my illustrious career though I never hit the dizzy heights of Baz Rathbone.

I remember saying, "You've got be good to wear white boots" at the time. Now it appears that, with the multi coloured boots that are the norm, I think it should be amended to "You've got to be good to wear black boots."

John @140: I remember when we signed Gana, when Koeman was manager, and there was a comment on ToffeeWeb that you could tell he was an honest no-nonsense player, because he wore simple black boots unlike the fancy ones other players were wearing.

I suspect the chances of us signing an aging superstar with a still indefatigable willingness to compete (as Andy Gray had when he joined us) are by now virtually nil. Rodriguez wasn't that player that's for sure, delightful as he occasionally was when he was (rarely) in the mood.

I'm hoping Lampard and his coaches are allowed by the Gruesome Twosome still allegedly in charge of the club to re-shape it into something recognisable as genuine competitors against any opponent. Leicester did it devoid of any mega-famous signings but with a fabulous esprit-de-corps throughout that and following seasons. If we can start to emulate them, avoid relegation and move into the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, it might just be that, in 5 years or so, we can be trophy contenders again. It'll take that long at least IMHO.

I'll be turned 70 by then, my football enjoyment throughout my 40s, 50s and (thus far) 60s having been stolen from me by a bloke who claims to have achieved "good times" in those decades.

He makes Boris "Liar" Johnson seem credible in comparison.

James reminds me of one of the fathers of a player on our high school soccer team. He played on our pick-up team when we played against high school kids from other cities when we got together for fun. He often had one or two moments a game where you went "Wow! We can't do that!"

Then the other team would start running right past him and running him into the ground. It was nice to have him on the team because he was a good guy and playing with a dad is kind of cool but we always felt a man down when he was in. He really hurt us in midfield.

James was not world class when he joined Everton, not in my book... but he was at a level still far higher than what we had.

The "good" teams as you state, had no need of him, with players who generally were going to be part of a Champions League contenders team. And you are right: he could not consistently play at that level anymore.

So, in answer to your question, why should Everton be interested in a has been?

● Because he wanted to play for a world class manager he respected.
● Because his very presence increased the club's standing in South America and worldwide.
● Because on his day, and there were still quite a few of them, he would have raised the roof off playing under a full Goodison park, something we never got the chance to see.
● Because his moments of brilliance are greater than effort alone.
● Because we started the season without him and no No 10, which in the end caused the whole team to suffer.
● Because he was replaced with no one.

So Michael, in some respects you are right to say he was not up to the better teams' level, but he was certainly up to Everton's. As I said before, we have a few rungs on the ladder before we can compete with the best teams; we cannot go out and buy a Champions League team of players, so we have to climb the ladder a rung at a time, constantly finding better players to help us get there. If that means a James or two, that's okay with me.

I think many a lock-in at the Wedding House did indeed end with many very vocal debaters much the worse for drink!

I seem to remember though I was always on the sharp end of it as my mum and dad, together with my other sisters, were all RS fans, so debate about the Blues often descended into derision and me copping it! Although, by the mid-80s I did get my own back!

No matter the specifics of any debate though, Darren, the facts speak for themselves. We have been badly run since the introduction of the Premier League, left to the sharks in the British Virgin Islands while our luvvy chairman extolled the financial virtues of Sir Philip Green to one and all, that financial wizard!

I doubt any manager since Moyes, or even including him, has had full say on recruitment and still it's an unsaid truth that players are bought at the whim of the owner without the input or request from the manager. We are dealing with a dysfunctional senior management team and owner no matter who selects the team.

We can blame managers, players, the owner, the board when in truth it's all of the above. But responsibility lies with the owner and board to give the manager the tools he requires. Accountability for players' success is with the manager; sadly, accountability for poor managers should be, but never has been with the board.

I guess what I am saying is we got every aspect wrong and no-one took responsibility for it. Of course, we did have a patsy...

“When I arrived from the Olympics, I was even surprised at how much he was running and dedicating himself to training, training well. And out of nowhere, the coach said he didn't count on him anymore. And nobody understood anything”

“So I think that also weighed a little on the group. Because we know about James' quality. Also from Digne, who we ended up losing. So it weighs, it weighs. Like it or not, it weighs on the group. We had a united group there and ended up losing two important players. So I think that's it. James, we wish him all the best.

“And that's it, we lost, we lost Bernard too, who was an important player. And it's like I said, we had everything to reach the Europa League or the Champions and we lose players so easily. Lose players through injury too. It ends up making competition difficult.”

* "Because he wanted to play for a world class manager he respected."
He sure did not look like it be the middle of the season with all his niggling injuries and leaving the team before the season ended. He could not be counted on.

* What tangible result came out of that. So Everton was on hos twitter feed. I saw nothing out of that. If we want to increase our standing in SA maybe we should someone who actually played often and gave two cents about the team.

* "Because on his day, and there were still quite a few of them, he would have raised the roof off playing under a full Goodison park, something we never got the chance to see."
True - but those moments were few and far between and disappeared by the last third of the season. We also had to suffer getting overrun in the midfield when he did play.

* "Because his moments of brilliance are greater than effort alone."
Basically a repeat of above.

* "Because we started the season without him and no No 10, which in the end caused the whole team to suffer." I'm not sure what this even means. Yes not having a 10 sucks. It also sucks having a 10 that leaves a gaping hole in the midfield. Why do all great number 10s in the EPL play offense and defense.

* "Because he was replaced with no one."
That has nothing to do with James just the ineptitude of the club.

You basic arguments is that his moments of glory were so exciting and he was good enough for Everton and he was better than what we had.

The proof in the pudding is that after Everton he did not get picked up by any team of consequence in any league of consequence in the entire world. No other decent team on the PLANET wanted him for the reasons that have been stated by many above.

I agree he was fantastic at moments but the league was too physical for him, he was an absentee player, and he mostly cared about living his lifestyle. He left our midfield as empty as Gomes does now which resulted in us playing with ten men when the other team had the ball.

Richarlison makes James Rodriguez and Rafa Benitez claim after triple transfer exit at Everton

Striker Richarlison has said that the untimely exit of star forward James Rodriguez seriously disrupted Everton's season.

Colombian Rodriguez left Goodison Park in September, joining Qatari side Al-Rayyan for an undisclosed fee.

And Blues favourite Richarlison admitted that his departure, along with the exit of other key players, contributed to the unravelling of Everton's campaign, eventually leading to the sacking of manager Rafa Benitez.

Speaking in an interview with TNT Sports, the Brazilian said: "When I arrived from the Olympics, I was even surprised at how much he (Rodriguez) was running and dedicating himself to training, training well.

"And out of nowhere, the coach (Benitez) said he didn't count on him anymore. And nobody understood anything.

“So I think that also weighed a little on the group. Because we know about James' quality. Also from (Lucas) Digne, who we ended up losing. So it weighs, it weighs. Like it or not, it weighs on the group.

"We had a united group there and ended up losing two important players. So I think that's it. James, we wish him all the best.

“And that's it. We lost Bernard too, who was an important player.

"And it's like I said, we had everything to reach the Europa League or the Champions League and we lose players so easily. Lose players through injury too. It ends up making competition difficult.”

That sounds like a poor excuse to my mind from Richarlison, obviously, the players have no idea about the financial restrictions that Everton has been operating under since the summer, there's no way on God's green earth that Everton could have justifed keeping James even if it had wanted to.

Injuries have been a legitimate reason for the teams bad form, but the loss of James in September cannot be used as a reason.

“I would have liked to have been at Everton for much longer. It's a spectacular club, the fans are incredible, but I ran into a coach who didn't want to count on me. I wanted to be there. Unfortunately, the coach didn't want to count on me. “

At least that's according.to Fabrizio Romano. He does say he wanted to be here… but what he doesn't say is that he actually wanted to play for Everton. Oh dear…

I struggle to believe that he couldn't improve this team.

Yes, he might have needed to be managed through the fixture schedule, but who hasn't needed that in our squad?

It was Benitez who said James didn't want to play for the club and again it was Benitez who said Digne didn't want to play for the club. He was attempting to get the fans on-board to justify his irrational dislike of the players and sadly many foolishly bought into this.

James is the best footballer the club has had in years and was very influential on the pitch. Benitez was totally clueless on how to make the best of the players at his disposal. He was making players take on roles for which they were unsuited rather than playing systems which took advantage of their strengths.

He was a control freak. Just read Richarlison comments on returning to the club after the Olympics, they are very illuminating.

Are you really still trying to peddle the line that it was FFP restrictions that caused the sale of James?

Van de Beek earns £120,000 a week and Alli earns £100,000, to which you can add on the salaries of Townsend (£48,000), Rondon (£43,000), Begovic (£43,000), Gray (£42,000), Mykolenko (£58,000) and Patterson (£28,000).

It has been claimed on this thread that we were wise to get him off the salary bill because he earned £250,000 a week (he didn't), he wanted to leave (he didn't), and that we are better off without him (we're not). As Richarlison makes clear in your own post @ 153, the sale of James and Digne had a bad effect on the morale and unity of the squad.

So why was he sold? In his own words "It's a spectacular club, the fans are incredible, but I ran into a coach who didn't want to count on me. I wanted to be there. Unfortunately, the coach didn't want to count on me."

He was sold because of the disastrous Benitez.

I'm not trying to peddle anything, I was merely airing my view about the financial restrictions that were in place during the summer.

I don't have any time for Benitez, and it may well be the case that he was responsible for the sale of James, due to some past conflict with the Colombian.

My main point was that Richarlison and his team-mates can't argue that James's sale was solely responsible for the terrible form that followed his departure.

If any or all of the players failed to give of their best for Everton FC because one of their mates was sold, I can't forgive them for that, no matter which player it was or how good he was.

James Rodriguez left Everton 5 months ago without featuring for the first team this season. Everton binned Benitez mid-January.

James's last competitive game of football for the Blues was playing 78 minutes in a 1-0 home loss to relegated Sheffield United on 16 May last season.

Yes, he is the type of player we should aspire to have playing for us. In his prime.

He started like a house on fire. 3 goals, 3 assists, in his first 5 Premier League games. He missed just one of our first 11 Premier League games last season but then, of the remaining 27 Premier League games, he played in less than half of them - 13 (many not even full games) – adding just 3 more goals and 2 assists.

He wasn't a game-changer in those 13 games. We lost 5 of them (West Ham Utd, Newcastle, Fulham, Man City and Sheff Utd – all at home), won only 3 (away to Wolves, Liverpool and Arsenal), drew the other 5. He got 4 more assists in cup games v West Ham in the League Cup and Rotherham and Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup.

His pass for Richarlison's opening goal in the 2-0 win at Anfield has, for some reason, taken on mythical status. It was good, but not the pass of the century.

It is more than reasonable to speculate, given the near-zero transfer spend in the summer, that his salary and retention for such an injury-prone player was a luxury the club simply could not afford.

Sorry he never got to strut his stuff before a full stadium of Blues to be 'touched' by Alan Ballitist, but to me his (and Benitez's) presence or absence is a totally moot and redundant point now.

It's Frank Lampard and his actual squad which will determine our fate this season.

Moreover, your post in itself is moot and redundant because it just recites what we already know about Rodriguez and his Everton career. Nothing more. And we already know he and Benitez are no longer with us.

The thing is, people will discuss topics that they have something to say about. (I think you know that already, so perhaps I am being moot and redundant!)

I wouldn't go so far as to say the thread produces any great revelations but people do have opinions on various aspects of the subject matter and it is relevant insofar as it covers an aspect of very recent Everton history. All things considered, those opinions don't warrant the kind of blanket denigration from you that we usually associate with the keyboard of Darren Hind.

The thread includes recent comments from your folk-hero, Richarlison, as well as words from James Rodriguez himself that are featured in the news today, providing his own personal take on the subject of Benitez and his departure from Everton. Redundant? Perhaps. But also relevant to our readers who are interested.

Nor am I given to the gratuitous personal denigration towards other posters without provocation you (falsely, I believe) accuse me of. You might like to look back through this very thread at other posters who most certainly have done that.

What intrigues me (and why I commented) is the phenomenon of looking backwards and the pining for or the criticizing of two ex-employees of the club that will never return and will have no bearing on the remainder of what is clearly a very critical and pivotal season.

And that is why I consider the subject matter of this thread a moot and redundant one. Not fessed one way or t'other how you or others interpret my post.

And it seems both moot and redundant (yet again) for me to point out that one of the abiding themes on ToffeeWeb – reflected constantly in the posts on many threads – is "looking backwards and pining for or criticizing" previous employees.

If it's not something you want to do, then why get involved at all?

All the arguments for James boil down to this: "One of the best players we had since forever, had moments of brilliance where his play took our breath away." All true.

However he had the same problem here he had in La Liga and the Bundesliga. He left his teams wide open in the midfield, he did not play defense, rarely tracked back etc etc etc. Despite his "super greatness", those teams decided he was not worth playing and was even then rarely available to play because of a myriad of injuries, just like with us.

I'm not saying it's better to sign some grafter and let him bulldoze the midfield. There are many midfielders in the Premier League that have real offensive talent and and work their asses off in midfield.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, if James was so fantastic why couldn't one team in Europe, just one, sign him? In fact, every decent football team on the planet knew James was available and expressed a collective yawn.

Simultaneously you lifted responses to his post from the original thread to here, as well as applying the title you did.

No issue from me for you doing so. You've done the same with some of my own (and others) posts.

And I hate to correct you on two things Michael, but firstly, nowhere at all have I said people shouldn't (your emphasis) be discussing this. My very first sentence in the post you take exception to clearly makes clear I am offering my opinion, without denigrating individuals or attempting to suppress peoples' right to comment:

'This reads as a weird and redundant thread to me.' I then explain why.

Secondly, the original post is 4-5 days old and was not intended as a 'standalone' thread that you made it. To now claim it is 'contemporary news' is to use a wee slight of hand Michael.

The two sources you quote referencing Rodriguez' leaving of Everton - Richarlison's ESPN interview and James' own comments reported today - were NOT in the public domain and 'known' at the time of the author's original post or your own creation of this thread.

Ergo, those two stories are standalone contemporary news, which you have retrospectively associated to this thread in an attempt to bolster your position.

Finally, if it's all right with you Michael, I hope I am allowed the same courtesy as other posters within TW's terms & conditions. Namely, deciding for myself how and when and IF I post, or ignore, entire threads or individual posts.

Sounds fair?

Let's go back to your original premise:

"This reads as a weird and redundant thread to me. Rodriguez and Benitez are now irrelevant. They're gone."

The original post was taken off another thread because the volume of posts it had generated were derailing that thread. To our way of thinking, this is a reasonable way to manage a new off-topic that develops spontaneously and generates a lot of posts, reflecting interest among our readers, rather than leaving them on the 'wrong' thread or deleting them entirely.

Extrapolating from that, you appear to be questioning why anyone is concerned about the issues discussed, why anyone would be interested in this topic. Perhaps you should address the fact that there were over 160 posts on this thread before you provided your negative critique on the thread's existence. It's that uncalled-for negative assessment that I was challenging.

As for the contemporary nature of the recent items I cited, this is what happens on many threads. They were not cited by me as justification for the thread itself in the way you have mis-stated, but to demonstrate the relevance of contemporaneous interest in the topic, even though it relates to past events.

My preference is always to keep things to one thread if possible, and to avoid having multiple threads on the same topic. A comparable example is the Gbamin rumour mill story of a few days ago, which has now morphed into a real story of his loan move – with the discussion preserved on one thread.

It seems your finishing touch is a rebuttal of my question: why get involved if it's something you're not interested in? I'm not in any way questioning your freedom to post, but instead your desire to denigrate the existence of a thread that developed spontaneously, and thereby to denigrate by association all the posts made to it, and the opinions of the individual posters.

On a point of principle, you appear to be denigrating what we are providing. That is at best disingenuous.

As for the idea that we should be aspiring to having players like James in their prime... yes please. But let's face reality. If we want quality we take a chance on them when they're either young or damaged. That's our reality. James didn't play enough games but, as a fan, he produced some of our best moments. He's unbelievably talented – and yet I've watched Alex Iwobi start our last two matches.

The confirmation that the summer saga was all Benitez shouldn't be a surprise. Just as the Digne situation wasn't. What a shit-show this club is. From the point of appointing Benitez to the point of sacking him, we were about as shambolic as a club can be.

If only we'd got rid of the catastrophic old fool before he'd started, we'd probably be 6th with James banging them in and Digne soaring up the wing to deliver those fabulous crosses he kept producing so consistently. Even Richarlison might have learned to control the ball and not fall over on his personal skid pan.

Stands to reason.

As the new regime continues with equally crap performances, the terrifying idea that it's the players – not the manager – gains credence. Hopefully the "change the manager" crew will be proved right and miraculously Frank transforms things but, if not, getting a scapegoat prepped makes great sense.

Certainly preferable to admitting they were wrong.

James Rodriguez open to Everton return after being forced out by Benitez

Have to say I think our current manager may disappoint us in both respects.

If you believe what James says, he loved Everton and very much wanted to stay, even after Carlo departed.

And if you believe what Richarlison says, James was a popular guy in the changing rooms.

Of course, they could both be lying...

Given our general poor form though, could we have afforded to carry him? That said, Gomes – and a few others – seem to get carried most weeks.

Did we 'sell' him though or is he on loan? If loan, why not bring him back? Or is FFP the big factor?

It was permanently brokered by Tim Cahill apparently. Can't see us bringing him back having taken on Dele Alli.

Andy Gray (prime dickhead that he's shown himself to be in recent years notwithstanding) was just such a player for us, as was Paul Power. The level of performance the two of them instantly injected into the whole squad was visible, week-in & week-out.

James Rodriguez had none of their durability or impact. The fact that Mike Gaynes and other Toffees go on all but eulogising him just tells me they're still on the Kenwright Express to recognising "good times". I don't recognise any facet of Kenwright's alleged recent "good times" shite.

Fans eulogising the "wonderfully positive" impact of James Rodriguez on our club performance is precisely what sustains our owner, accountant and chairman in their never-ending smoke and mirrors response to true, credible accountability to us mere fans.

Oooooookay.

I'm sure that makes sense on whatever planet it came from.

Maybe the James plan would have worked but the red flag to me is that Carlo, who was James's champion, called up Real Madrid and begged for an exit strategy. That suggests to me Carlo wasn't convinced things would work out. But we will never know.

Rafa took a mediocre team and made them worse; now Frank has to pick up the pieces.

Smoke and mirrors manufacturers have made a living at Everton, Kenwright and Co must have their number on speed dial...

Jay appears to think that what's happened has gone and doesn't matter, but it does because decisions made at this club have taken us to the brink of relegation. If we are to survive, the people making the decisions cannot be allowed to go on without assuming responsibility.

James never dissed the club or its players. We had a glimpse of what he was but failed to mix and match him into a team that could compliment his skill and compensate for his work rate. That's what good teams do. We were not a good team and we are a poorer one now.

Benitez's issue was personal with James, it wasn't wages or FFP, it was vindictive. Was he good enough? That's another debate but, in the right formation with players who complimented him, protected him, we could have brought the best out of him.

It was not to be, but that decision was down to a personal dislike by Benitez. The scary thing was that someone, Moshiri or Kenwright, must've signed off on getting rid during Benitez's interview process...

I saw how much the Colombian wanted to play for Everton in the last few weeks of last season with my own eyes!!

Benitez then went on to replace the DOF and most of his scouting staff left, not content with that Benitez then removed most of the medical team. I know some posters were pleased with these changes and hoped he would be the catalyst to the removal of Kenwright.

For me, a manager first and foremost needs to get his first team winning games and developing a style of play. But we all knew from his history Benitez had become known for causing trouble at every club he had managed, and the real problem was that, when he left these clubs, they were usually in a worse place than when he arrived.

Thankfully his results were so bad that even Moshiri had to see we were only heading in one direction, and the threat that posed to his and Usmanov,s investment.

Thankfully we now have a young coach who unlike Benitez has forged already in his short time an empathy with the fans. There is no split in the fanbase we have someone along with his coaches who wont be creating any animosity around the training ground. I think most can agree that, had Benitez been allowed to stay, he would have done to us what he did to Newcastle and get them relegated.

No you didn't. You might think you did, but you didn't. None of us did.

Not that I'd want him back because it smacks of Gazza, Ginola, Rooney – the short-sighted Everton cack-handed way. He probably still has more to offer than them. Next!

Let Frank limp us over the line and do his thing after May.

That was a large dollop of me being sarcastic – just as Rodriguez is talking a large dollop of nonsense about wanting to come back and play for us. He should have wanted to play for us at the end of last season, smarmy little money-grabbing playboy!!

The entire world of soccer has realized James is finished, or at least just not worth it, yet a brigade of ToffeeWebbers want him back.

I find it very strange that some of us allow ourselves to so distracted from the big, big problem still infesting the club whilst going on about a player who was a brief mere flash of talent, but only when he felt like it.

Oh well, that's the news from Planet Reality!

"Of course, they could both be lying..."

Phew!! you saved yourself from being a news item right there.

Having had 3 storms in the UK, your desperate rationale prior to the above goal line clearance was in danger of being reported as "laughter storm, Mike".

Wow! 4 in a week – this could be interpreted by cult "dangerous man-made climate change" as evidence. You do realise you might have to glue your tit to the tarmac now?

Barry #193, didn't comprehend a word of that. I even tried running your post through Google Translate but it crashed the program.

Brian #186, those are the salient points for me. Good summary.

Dave #185, my default position when I read a footballer's comments is to believe them, unless they have a past record of speaking falsely or saying something else. I never read a negative quote from James about Everton or not wanting to play, and I never read a negative quote from anyone at Everton about James, even a hint that any of his mates were discontented with him. If it makes me naive to take Richarlison's comments at face value, so be it.

You are preaching to the converted, brother. Still amazed some Blues can't or won't see the never-ending white nelly in the room, holding us back. He's got more lives, after all the ineptitude, than a moggy in the Zouma household.

Let's hope we live to tell the tale by May... The unthinkable would finish us.

Yes, I enjoyed him playing for us now and again but didn't enjoy the half-hearted attempts plenty of times.

Of course you wouldn't know if he was smarmy or a playboy – although there is a lot of photographic evidence that he was a playboy and I thought he was smarmy with his ridiculous reasons for him not being fit at the end of last season.

Maybe you just like to see the good side of people, and accept that, if he says he isn't fit, then you believe it!!

Every week in the Premier League, the opposing manager will praise the other team and their manager, bulling them up – patently a load of nonsense.

You've been in that game for many years in the past so you know the score, they may not be lies but definitely a load of bullshit, whether they say it at the time or 6 months later, like Richarlison has just done.

Give me 20 games of Rodríguez instead of 40 games of what Townsend brings.

I'd have James back, all day, every day – a fantastic footballer.

I think Everton – or any team – would have more success with ten Townsends as a team than ten Rodriguezs. To be fair, just over the 20 games the Colombian was able to turn out in, although there would be a lot of fun watching the goals going in at both ends and a lot of appreciation watching the Rodriguez team attack, but much more hilarious laughter watching them defend.

Could be that 99% of the stories that floated around during his time were bullshit too, or that they were deliberately concocted to show the player in the worst light, but that's probably only 50% true... Certainly it became a "back the manager" issue but it's a shame that some people believe everything they read in the newspaper headlines, never reading on to find the actual detail… you know, the truth?

What is true is that James never really helped himself with some of his actions. Some of his social media and his inability to understand humility when a club's supporters are crying out for someone to have pride and saw only arrogance.

We have never had a superstar in the modern era and we certainly don't know how to handle one. A large spoonful of castor oil should be dished out to those unable to stomach the media that goes with it.

When it's over, he is gone; the moment, like adulation for brilliance, all too fleeting, and we are left with a what could have been. A fading talent indeed... but still capable of quality that still we do not possess.

For an eagle to soar, don't fly with turkeys.

Andros has scored more goals for Everton than James ever did and the goal against Burnley was far better than James ever scored for Everton.

Andros is playing in the best league in the world and James is playing in a far, far weaker league in Qatar.

There were also plenty of stories that came out and showed Benitez in a bad light and a lot of them could be read as bullshit. Yes, the headlines are always remembered but the content sometimes not even read, that's life.

I know that people who Benitez knew – both Everton fans and others – warned him not to take the job but he thought he could make it work. It didn't work out but I still think and say that the players made a lot more mistakes than Benitez did; mistakes he admitted.

How many players come out and put their hands up and admit their many individual mistakes –except for the token ones after each defeat, when they take turns to admit the team didn't perform the way they did?

James was a star once upon a time but, even then, lacked consistency; that was years before he joined us, for the money, Christine.

The downside is the only real discussion here. What happens when he doesn't play? Does it leave an elevator shaft of confidence for the side that then must be cobbled together? Can he keep himself from being a further distraction when the club struggles without him or will he need some media time?

All of that comes with the James Entertainment Package and some of us just saw all we wanted. No knife in the back, no looking for backstories, he just wasn't providing the upside to balance out the rest.

Nothing hilarious in an inability of management unable to blend a team so that they complement each other's skills and compensate for their deficiencies. You need players like Townsend as well as James to be a great team; get the wrong manager or the wrong blend and it will fail.

In Benitez we had the wrong manager for James; in Ancelotti, we had what we have now – a group of players who on their day, are capable of excellence and high workrate but, more often than not, can only do it every now and again. Totally lacking in quality and consistency.

The current Everton squad is a mish-mash of previous managers' attempts to stamp their ethos on players and, as we all agree, in the end, many will have to go if Lampard is to build his vision of Everton Football Club.

Baby and bathwater spring to mind re James. No matter how good or bad, the sad thing is that we never got the best of him.

There should always be room in a team for a James type player. I loved his time at the Blues, a fantastic footballer.

I think we can appreciate James without slagging Andros.

James was snookered when it came to choice of clubs, he just had to take pot luck on the Qatari offer.

I'm sure the massive salary cushioned the blow though, him and Townsend? … chalk and cheese.

As I understand it, Townsend had several offers and chose to come to Everton, joining up with the squad at pretty much the earliest possible point, which was the beginning of pre-season in July 2021, after his Crystal Palace contract ended in June 2021.

I enjoyed watching James Rodriguez in those first few games of the season. But it quickly became apparent that we couldn't capitalise on his occasional brilliance enough to mean that his defensive shortcomings, fitness issues, huge salary, and off-the-field distractions were worth stomaching.

If we'd had a functioning team that meant he was the missing piece of the jigsaw, then so be it – but we weren't and he wasn't. Next...

I would watch Rodriguez's goal against Leicester.

Not saying it's better but certainly on a par.

I think Frank Lampard, very early days I know, is having the same problems trying to fathom this squad out from one game to the next. Most of us knew it was a weak squad but it became a lot weaker with the injuries and suspensions quite early for Benitez, and now, of course, for Frank.

I think Benitez was in the same league as a few managers trying to get the best out of James, he hadn't done much for any of them before we landed him or, in my opinion, were landed with him.

You could be correct in that “we never got the best out of him”. I'd ask, “How hard did he try to give his best in a lot of those games?”

I've always believed that most teams need a blend of flair and graft. Experience and youth. Leaders and those who need to be led. Every now and then you'll get a freak like Pep's Barcelona and Pep's City, but most teams are a blend.

But even the talented players who made up / make up those teams I reference had one thing in common. They worked incredibly hard; continuously and consistently. Both as individuals and as a collective.

We do need players of that quality and we do need players who work hard to support them and the team. But those quality players also have to work as hard as their lesser talented team mates.

James is the kind of player that can turn a game around, but usually had top class players around him and comparing him to other players in different positions will not prove anything.

He may have been able to help Everton in the future but, at the moment, with the management changes and different formations, fighting relegation after practically the first 2 months of Benitez coming in, he was a luxury player on a high wage and not in the manager's plans.

Going on his pass against Liverpool, saying it got Everton the 3 points, is ridiculous. It was the team effort that got the 3 points.

I could have watched James all day but it was never going to happen for reasons we've all been through.

Thing is, Dan, you'd have been unimpressed for 23 hours and 55 minutes of that day, mate.

You could make a case for Tom Davies's swivel near the edge of our own box, his early pass into the path of Richarlison who then passes in to Calvert-Lewin gets us a penalty in 3 passes and about 4 touches from our own 3rd. It was a team performance. Let's have one Saturday, please, Everton.

To repeat myself and agree, we'd have seen more out of James in a better Everton team surrounded by better players, although I still think you're only getting half a season.

He is gone, but it's good discussion.

Barry, come on. Give me 15 minutes!!

Real Madrid - 2014-15 - 29 - 76%
Real Madrid - 2015-16 - 26 - 68%
Real Madrid - 2016-17 - 22 - 61%
Bayern Munich - 2017-18 - 23 - 64%
Bayern Munich - 2018-19 - 20 - 56%
Real Madrid - 2019-20 - 8 - 21%
Everton -2020-21 - 23 - 61%
Everton - Benitez manager so ignore for argument sake
Al-Ryyan - 2012-22 - 8 - 44%

After two years, Bayern Munich did not pick up 28-year-old James's option to buy for £35 million. Real Madrid got rid of him twice and no-one wanted him after Everton. He has only played 8 of 19 games for his current team. James will leave a hole in your midfield bigger than Gomes while not being available to play too much of the time.

Whoever said James is your "final piece of the puzzle" is right (and you better have 10 other players who make up for his lack of effort on the pitch). He is not a player you build with.

Your stats are proof that Rodriguez when fit plays for the best teams in world football.

Have you got similar stats for Gbamin, Gomes, Calvert-Lewin, Mina or Allan? Wonder how many appearances the list above would get at Madrid or Munich?

Stats can be twisted whatever way to suit.

The only reason he stayed with Real Madrid so long was because he signed a long contract they could not get rid of until Everton called.

They tried to get rid of him to Bayern and Bayern refused to pick up his contact when James was at the prime age of 28. In fact, in James's last year at Real Madrid, Zidane only played him in 8 games and told him he no longer had a place on the team.

What am I missing? The whole world of soccer saw what we saw when James was at Everton. Let me repeat. Every football team on the planet knew James was available from Everton and guess what? Not only did the "best teams in world football" as you say pass on this super-creative football genius, so did every other decent team on the planet.

February 1, 2022 1st paragraph:

"Luis Diaz has finally joined Liverpool from FC Porto. However, a lot of credit could go to former Manchester United striker Ramadel Falcao and former Everton midfielder James Rodriguez, as they persuaded their fellow Colombian to reject their ex-clubs for a move to Anfield."

His transfer fee to Liverpool was £37.5 million + £12.5 million! The fee, plus the fact that Liverpool are 2nd in the Premier League and play Champions League every season, were perhaps more relevant factors.

As Rob points out, he has played for the best teams in the world for a reason. Everton were a good fit for him and he wanted to stay. If you truly believe we are better without him, then take another look at the league table or watch last Saturday's game on a repeat reel. Noting that last season, we beat Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, West Ham and Wolves away and drew with Man Utd. Those by the way are 6 of the current top 8.

I can't remember if you were pro-Benitez – you can advise – but reading back through this thread there is a correlation between supporters who told us we were lucky to have Benitez and supporters telling us we were lucky to get rid of James.

They paid what we paid, more or less, to sign the much-lesser-sought-after Iwobi, still with years to go on his contract.

Diaz is a diamond. Iwobi is dust. Who's accountable?

"Not only did the "best teams in world football" as you say pass on this super-creative football genius, so did every other decent team on the planet."

James was past his best, no question, so no top team was ever going to come in for him. This is Everton! Not only are we not at the top table – we are a basket case and have been for god knows how long!

He may not have been good enough for the top table anymore but he was certainly good enough for Everton and if that hurts then you haven't been watching the last 5 years!

The fact is you don't know who was interested in him and, if someone comes along at the twilight of your career and offers you a shed load of cash, are you going to walk away from it?

When are some fans going to realise that top players are not going to break the door down to come to Everton when they can earn two or three times more than any player we have? Never mind the fact that it's 27 years since we last won anything, let alone compete for anything either!

It's like Ronaldo going to play for Derby County... it's never going to happen.

As Christine #223 points out, your statistics lack context.

And we cannot change that by giving 2-year contracts to people who used to be top players but are physically shot, despite some beautiful moments.

Unfortunately, there is a real danger we've made a similar mistake with Dele Alli and deep down we all know it.

We can, however, speculate on talented young players playing in South America, the Balkans, Scandinavia etc where exceptional players crop up with reasonable regularity and are available at pretty low cost. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Greece and France too.

These players exist and end up getting picked up at relatively low cost before being developed at clubs like Ajax, Lille, Lyon, Atalanta and Brighton. We can certainly compete with these clubs financially. What we struggle to do is attract the stars of these clubs once they've started to really perform – like Bissouma for example, who is extremely unlikely to be interested in a move to Everton.

It seems strange that a club as hard up as we have been (and now are again) persistently ignores the parts of the market which offer best value.

We're a very proud, old-fashioned sort of club and it's got us absolutely nowhere.

It's actually very simple. When I don't know something, I say I don't know. More people should admit to not knowing, when they don't know, rather than pretending they do know, when they don't know.

Could it have been because he didn't trust him, or because Everton needed to reduce the wage bill?

I have a mate who knows Benitez, and he told me last week that Benitez told him that he had a deal lined up for Diaz that would have cost Everton £36 million in the summer.

All this talk about the past when we should be concentrating on the here and now, and the future. This club needs a proper CEO (and not because ours is looking for different employment!) and a proper chairman, unless Moshiri is suddenly going to devote a lot more of his time to Everton?

You are wrong about why he missed games before the Colombia call-up.

James Rodriguez returns to Colombia squad after 12-month absence

"The 30-year-old has made just three appearances for Al-Rayyan because of a lingering calf problem."

Same as it ever was.

He also got himself suspended for a few games for a double yellow dissent in a very bad display against the referee.

Did you see what percentage of league games he played for his clubs over the years? He never plays a real season.

I think, in a lot of cases, some people will see what pleases them and comment on it. If they don't like what they see, they turn a blind eye to it and say nothing – especially when it concerns a player who they like.

Buy hidden gems for relatively moderate prices and gradually climb the stairs to a higher position, after which, you can attract top players.

I also like the Leipzig model. Rarely (if ever) spend more than €20M, but build a fantastic Champions League standard team.

The top teams in the best leagues have 11 players who play hard for the team on both sides of the ball. Conte, Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and all the best managers suffer no passengers – no matter how good they are.

The debate over Rodriguez was going on while Ancelotti was managing Everton. A lot of fans were very happy with him and quite a few thought he was very good in spells and very poor in longer spells.

Off the field, I think most fans thought that, if Ancelotti hadn't been manager, he wouldn't have come here. Whatever the reason he left Everton, I was happy that he went, and it had nothing to do with Benitez, whether he liked him or not.

"He may not have been good enough for the top table anymore but he was certainly good enough for Everton."

True in a way. His skill level was obviously the best at the club and the best Everton had in many years, no doubt. Greatness at times.

You do not build a winning club by recruiting passengers, no matter how good they are. Throughout his career, James has never played a real season through injuries or manager's decisions.

Character is the first aspect that should be looked at when recruiting. Will they work both sides of the ball, work hard and for the team? Without that, other players become resentful at the one who does not work and it hurts the club. Also, lorry-sized holes in the midfield hurt. No-one has ever accused James of being a hard worker.

A player must also be available. It's clear James has always had injury problems. It's like having half a great player.

I'm not saying he is a bad guy. He seems to have an enjoyable way of looking at life and must be fun to be around. I would certainly like to party with him.

Kevin de Bruyne is my favourite non-Everton player. Despite his astounding greatness, I do not believe Pep would play him like he does if Kevin did not play defense. Pep and the other great managers do not suffer passengers.

If we want to become a great club, we need to instill a culture that demands excellence at every single level of the club – from board, to players, to ushers and dishwashers. No matter how talented you are, you work 100%. You make sure those players have the necessary talent and you have the beginning of a winning formula. All the great clubs do this. That is what I want.

Good posts – you are correct, James is playing in the right League that suits him physically and financially.

The Premier League was too physically demanding for him which is what Benitez probably thought and he didn't want any passengers on his team.

Benetiz is getting a lot of flak over James leaving but I believe James wanted to leave Everton once Carlo left.

It totally bemuses me why people keep banging his drum despite such a humungous issue.

Not an obvious choice in a relegation scrap. Unfortunately, the Club still have many on their books who fall into that category.

No, it's not about passengers because, as I said, what Everton failed to do was utilize his skills in a team that blended individual skills to create an effective and consistent force.

No, the real "crux of the matter" is how a club like Everton, who have fallen so far, can bridge the gap and get back to the top table. The gulf in class, ability and resources is so big that any piecemeal initiative is doomed to fail.

It's taken a generation to fail as badly as we have, decisions made in how this club is run have finally come home to roost. The so-called review of the club needs to address this issue more than anything else. For without that vision no plan will succeed.

The absence of any shared vision has, in my humble opinion, been the legacy of one man, who sold the Tower of London to a man with more money than sense.

It's a long road back to greatness, and I hope that we never accept the mediocrity of the so-called "good times" that our chairman extolled as a defence of his involvement in the club. He is that far away from the reality of our situation and the bar has been lowered so far that "good times" equates to mere survival in the Premier League.

That is the "crux of the matter", Michael, how we can become great again.

For me, it's the ruthless pursuit of excellence at every level in the club. The very best people you can get, held accountable for delivering on tough objectives. It's the difference in approach between Man City and Leicester City, a winning club as opposed to a consistent winning team.

Does that mean the end of the family club? I hope so.

He was NOT "suspended for a few games" and it wasn't a "very bad display", it was fully justified and quite gentlemanly under the circumstances -- which were an opposing player trying to take his head off, followed by the referee shoving him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-7GqUyeWXM

And the simple fact is that the only two league games James has missed in the last four months were because he was with Colombia or in quarantine. And the only league game he hasn't started was because he had just flown in from Buenos Aires. I know, I watched the game two days earlier.

You don't rate him, fine, but it's not necessary to make stuff up.

Never got us anywhere and never will. We will always be a mid table team until we can change the class of player we have in our squad.

Give me a bit of class over a lot of gas any day of the week.

What we really need are attainable players with class, like Michael Olise, Andy Robertson, Neto, Ruben Neves, Bissouma, Lamptey, Sarr, Livramento, Soyuncu, Ndidi, McGinn, Luiz, Soucek, Bowen, Raphina, St Maxamim etc – all of whom were very easily within our price bracket when bought.

You don't just find talent in the treatment room at Real Madrid. And it's not a choice between stars and crap.

I remember us taking a gamble on a couple of players in the mid eighties that had a terrible injury track record. Gray and Reid, without either there are no trophies in the eighties. We bought an old guy from Man City who helped us win the title in Power.

A successful team is made up of many elements. Experience, organisation, hard work, speed and quality. Rodriguez falls into the quality bracket.