Don’t blame Benítez for Everton malaise – the answer lies higher up

“I think this group of players are giving everything.”

In other words, that is all they are capable of!!

It does strike me that Moshiri has squandered a lot of money backing poor managerial appointments, and yet the current incumbent and the last, who are both head and& shoulders above their predecessors, imo, have found there is little to nothing available to back them.

So when we had some money to spend we let the wrong people spend it and when we finally get better people in there's hardly any money left.

All this is compounded by Moshiri having appointed a Director of Football who doesn't seem to be allowed to really act like a proper Director of Football!

Harrumph!!

Attention all Yanks... you can hear from Benitez himself tomorrow afternoon on NBCSN. He's the guest on the Men In Blazers show at 2:30pm ET, 11:30 PT.

Don't forget to set your clocks back tonight.

I do think a lot of blame should land at Moshiri's door. It's weird because, at the same time, I feel grateful to him for investing in our club and backing us, but he really has cocked it all up. A busted flush as they say.

I don't get the criticism towards Brands, my sense is he has been hamstrung from the start. What the fuck is the point in having a Director of Football if he isn't pulling all the strings related to signings? Another fail by Moshiri.

I think they are giving all they've got. It's why they've let down 5 managers and routinely crumble when the pressure is on.

Bar a few, the majority of the squad you couldn't give away. Certainly the next club wouldn't be paying them what we do.

Oh to turn back the clock. I would love to sit down with Moshiri after stumbling across him in a lonely bar somewhere whilst he stares into his empty whisky glass and ask him: What he would have done differently? I suspect the response would be "Almost everything".

Got one of my season tickets for Spurs tomoz anyone want.
£19 if ya 65 £30 if under.Main Stand.

Ade 07972351685.

Meet me at Dixie Statue.Text

I've said it a million times – it's not enough to be a billionaire in the top tier of English togger. From Randy Lerner to Hicks and Gilette the examples are endless of rich men eaten alive by the demands of transforming ailing clubs like ours.

There is only one model that addresses our miserable existence and that is the Chelsea and Man City plan. Both have continued throwing enough shit at the fan till enough sticks and they win trophies.

Leicester can be acknowledged as a sort of exception to prove the rule. maybe Liverpool, but a club of their size failing for so long despite spending big meant it was just a matter of time before it clicked. So no they can't.

From the get-go, Moshiri appeared a bit of a buffoon because of his weird utterances, lack of street smarts, and general naivety... but we are stuck with him. He is what he is: another busted flush billionaire devoured by the footy monster. Pointless worrying about it.

What's the old saying? Too many cooks spoil the broth!

That's exactly what the club has become. Too many parts to a structure that lacks any cohesion or direction.

Firstly you have the great hanger-on, in Kenwright. How on earth do you manage to sell a club but somehow still retain a position at the top of the table.

Then you have an owner who's ploughed millions into the club and still is with infrastructure investments.

You also have his buddy in the shadowy background, who may or may not be pulling the strings.

Then you have a DoF who before arriving at the club was regarded as one of the best in the business, who now seems to be relegated to a glorified club secretary. Then there's a CEO who seems to have zero football knowledge, but runs a good charity.

Throw in the endless amount of old boy network of coaches who seem to get a job just because the played a couple of games for us, plus one who's forced on every manager.

Lastly, an academy director who somehow keeps getting promoted, and was pretty much given free reign over the youth a few years back to run it without any cohesion with the rest of the club.

Add that all together with the conveyer belt of managers we've had over the last few years, and it's not surprising we're an utter mess. What Morshiri should have done when he bought the club was to completely clean house.

A lot of blame is falling back onto him now due to the mess we're in and this was a good reason why. He brought in Brands to be the DoF, but the guy hasn't been able to do the role as he has so many interferences, including Morshiri himself.

He should have learned from the Steve Walsh debacle that he isn't a football guy, but he still pushes for managers and players that he wants. While Brands gets slack for Iwobi, it was pretty well known that him and Walcott were the owner's favourite players from his old club.

The club is rotten to the core from years and years mismanagement. The club needs a reset and a clear out. The move into the new stadium would have been a good restart, but that's too far away.

We can all blame anyone and everyone when we are losing.

The three people for the football side of the club are Moshiri, the owner, who supplies the money for the manager to spend, and Brands, who finds the type of player the manager wants and does the negotiating to try and bring that player in, not always successful.

The director of football has the responsibility of overseeing all football matters from the first team and below, and working with the manager to build up a team and squad that fit into the manger's style and tactics.

Other supporters may have better information, but I think Moshiri has been giving financial aid to the managers, whoever was hired or fired, and most of the time, Brands was left to do the negotiating and not looking for players.

With no money to spend this time around, I believe that the manager and the director are having to work closely and work to the system of having a director of football. That is, tell the director of football what positions he wants players for, let him search for players, let the manager know who he has found available and negotiate with the players club with the managers approval.

We are going through 6 mangers, all who have different ideas on style and tactics, all who have left the next manager with players they may not want or can't sell. And finally we are looking for who is to blame.

The problem to me is the Premier League that does not allow for failure, and sometimes managers are not given enough time to overcome a bad run of games.

The Premier League is noted as one of the best in Europe, but with the cups, qualifying for Europe plus the financial gains for a Premier League title, it is bringing in some very rich investors, so the 3 major people I mention have to get their act together and decide what way the playing side of the club is run.

There never seemed as many complaints before this last run of poor games that seemed to be caused by not only injuries but the lack of good players to replace them, in a squad that have a number of players still at the club from previous managers, that can't be sold.

Our problems are obvious. A good but weak first eleven has nothing underneath.

We've got a team of the required standard (just), but the squad is shocking. Which has forced us to play players when they are not fit – see Godfrey, Richarlison, Rondon, Calvert-Lewin etc. It will take Benitez at least 2 years to really get them going.

Okay, but the argument applies to every manager we've had since Moshiri arrived. We always have problems, which get worse when we have an injury problem, which we always do.

The piece in the Guardian just re-states the depth of the problem and highlights those responsible that have already been discussed in depth in previous articles and comments on ToffeeWeb.

Most of us know Benitez is not to blame, although some of his team selections have been questionable, but it will probably be his head that rolls first.

We all know we need quality in the squad, a vocal leader on the pitch, and a desire to fight and compete until the final whistle. Some people argue that it is the manager's job to instil this in the team, and they have a point... but 4 managers before Benitez have all failed to do this.

I believe whatever team we can put out, if we play as a unit, back one another up rather than arguing, and play with guts and determination, we can give most teams a game especially if the Goodison crowd get behind them.

The bottom line is the question I've asked several times on other threads — we know the problems, but what is the solution?

A good start was what happened after the final whistle after the Watford game, get in Moshiri's face and let him know the depth of feeling. He won't like it, he likes to be Mr Nice Guy, the saviour of the club, so let's do it again only more so. Keep the pressure on!!

It's not an either/or situation.

Benitez isn't responsible for the horrendously poor squad depth, but he is responsible for adding 3 shit players and the zonal marking madness that's costing us every week.

The desperation to excuse him is becoming galling. Get a tune going quickly, or get out, Rafa. Simple.

I can see Benitez walking away from this mess, especially if he doesn't get what he wants in the January window. It's a symptom of the shambles that is Everton Football Club when the fans are not sure who is responsible for the state we find ourselves in: Moshiri, Kenwright, Brands, Barrett-Baxendale or Benitez.

Stu (13) - "The piece in the Guardian just re-states the depth of the problem and highlights those responsible that have already been discussed in depth in previous articles and comments on ToffeeWeb."

Thank you. Yet another re-hash.

At this point, we're wallowing in it.

I always was blue in the face, never mind exasperation, but a succession of managers makes no difference, because unfortunately, the lack of a squad of quality players has been a downfall for each and every one of them.

Ancelotti, yes Darren, that one, could do nothing with them once injuries hit; Benitez cannot either. For the simple reason: we are 20 players light of where we need to be as a club. We have spent huge amounts of money trying to bring in expensive might-do players, rather than build a team.

It's a failed approach for without a solid nucleus of quality in the spine of the team and squad replacements, all we are doing is tinkering around the edges. It's not Benitez's fault, not Ancelotti's or Silva's, Martinez's or even Allardyce's – it's been the culture of the club, the fact the just who is buying players, is it Brands, Kenwright, Moshiri or the manager? Given that whichever manager you chose the result is the same, it's most likely a combination of the other three.

Just how much influence Brands or Kenwright have over transfers is debatable but it's not working.

For me, Moshiri is an exasperated and unhappy man. I think his misplaced trust dug a hole he alone can't get out of. Benitez will get him out of it but it's time to change the culture in the whole club. Get rid of Kenwright and Brands, change the way the club is run, a stronger board, stronger club management.

Change begins at the top. If Moshiri is listening, he needs to bolster the manager's requirements and stop listening to Kenwright and Co. Otherwise, the merry-go-round goes on.

It's taken 20 years to get to this point; no manager will succeed with a club without direction or responsibility. That's now down to Moshiri, no-one else; he has to change the way the club is run, change the culture from a family club to a professional one, hellbent on success.

James @16,
Maybe — but I haven't seen a rehash of a solution yet.

Stu (18) - Haha. None of us have. Better players, likely.

Just seeing the OP and thinking, "Seriously? This again."

We know already.

If he was in here, Andy Hunter would be just another typist.

Dennis @2 says it for me.

Poor managerial appointments and non-implementation of the Director of Football role.

By the time we actually get credible managers in, the money has dried up and they are unable to get a tune out of the mismatch of players we have assembled both expensively and through an academy that isn't producing.

But we go tomorrow with belief. Top 8 by 6pm tomorrow looking up.

(14). Absolute bollocks

Chris 21 and Gary 14

Who are the “three shit players”? I'm assuming Rondon? And what, the two veteran goalies? Or do you mean the other two lads who've been the only bright point this season?

James #19
"If he was in here, Andy Hunter would be just another typist."
And getting slaughtered for not blaming everything on Blue Bill.

This article.

Ditto.

The real test of Brands will be in a couple of years time.

A team of with a backbone of Kenny, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Gordon, Davies?

But what about one in a couple of years time which now included Nkounkou, Branthwaite, Simms, as well as Gordon and Calvert-Lewin and a few more of the youngsters picked up since he arrived... such as Okoronkwo, Higgins, Kristensen, Leban, Iversen, McAllister.

That would show he is replicating the Dutch model of picking young prospects and turning them into first-team players. It takes time to build a team. If we still have no youngsters coming through, then he needs to consider his position.

Hunter probably doesn’t slag Bill Kenwright because he’s a Liverpudlian, who is privately happy that Everton no longer exist to win.

Phil,

Brands's title is Director of Football – not Director of Youth Players for the Future. If we carry on like this, there won't be a future because short termism is now de facto in the Premier League.

Given what he inherited, I think he has done a fair job with the interference of Kenwright and Moshiri accepted.

Ancelotti's statement that he is not "a magician" sums up our conundrum.

We have a squad that is midtable at best with a lack of goalscorers throughout the team and defenders who bottle it at every opportunity.

The quality of coaching has improved in the top tier too so no real advantage there when we have Rafa competing with Pep, Tuchel, Klopp, and Rogers – although even Leicester are struggling with arguably a better squad than us because Maddox has been in and out with injury.

I would then say Rafa is on a par with Moyes, Solskaer and Potter... and then we have the up-and-coming Viera and Arteta.

What we really need is the whole club working together in harmony, which will require patience and support from the fans and replacement of Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale with proper football people and a proper plan.

Our only competitive advantage in the short-term is a united team playing for each other and one or two key players in the January window to at least enable us to stop building on sand and get the supporters behind them.

"If the kids are united." Jay, that has got to be one of the most under-rated sayings I've ever heard!

Give me Moyes and Kenwright all day over Rafa and Brands, Koeman and Walsh or anything else. The bitterness stopped us getting Moyes back when Martinez was sacked. We are in deep shit.

One thing stands out for me, not more than anything but more tham most. If Sam Allardyce was only a stop-gap appointment, why was he and Walsh allowed to spend £50 million on Tosun and Walcott??

Who made those calls to keep throwing money after money on players that may not gel with whomever the next managerial appointment would be?

Don't tell me that was Kenwright. Don't tell me he made any of those managerial choices after Martinez. He may have encouraged the re-signing of Rooney (who was kicked out too soon).

The buck stops with Moshiri, and nobody else.

I'd sooner have Moyes and Kenwright.

That was just the confirmation that my post @26 was looking for, David!

David post 29.

Definitely not pearl of wisdom. Lesser of two evils you saying "give me Moyes and Kenwright".

I'll leave it at that.

There's no way that many Evertonians would have welcomed a Moyes return following the sacking of Martinez; they might have grumpily accepted his return when either Allardyce or Ancelotti took the job.

They might even grudgingly accept his return when Benitez leaves, although, I don't think he would leave his current employers of his own free will, unless the Czech investor has bigger plans for the Hammers.

I don't see much difference between Benitez and Moyes; if Benitez manages to leave the club in a better state than he found it, I'll certainly be hoping to see a much better manager than Moyes to replace him.

Barry, the problem is we cannot attract the elite managers and coaches now due to the mediocrity of the last 30 years and FFP.

We need a gradual increase in status – starting with Top 6 with Rafa and then a few years in Europe – and that is a tall order from where we are as a club right now.

Barry,

I agree, Moyes is similar to Rafa both in his qualities and his situation. People unfavorably comparing Rafa to Moyes though need to remember, Moyes had almost a year at West Ham during which he made an impact on the core values and got Antonio up and running.

His profligate replacement then wasted money on huge wages for an injury-prone midfielder (Wilshere – their James Rodriguez), a Portuguese speaking midfielder who proved to be ineffective in the Premier League (Felipe Anderson – their Andre Gomes), and a really expensive crap player (Haller – their Iwobi); whereafter, Moyes took over and narrowly kept them in the Premier League.

The next season, they did well; they are doing well again. But Rafa is only at the start of his journey. He also has less cash than Moyes who – despite being told to cut costs – did have some money to buy the likes of Benrama (£30 million).

Moyes is doing a fantastic job at West Ham, but if we don't give Rafa the chance, and the financial backing, to do the same, then we are fools.

As for Davey coming back here – no chance. He's done his time, and I for one think he did brilliantly for most of his tenure, so I don't think he deserves the misery of another spell here.

We've bought badly since Moshiri took over, it's as simple as that. Rafa came in with a clear plan, which was to supply Calvert-Lewin with endless crosses from both wings while keeping it tight at the back with a low block because of our ponderous central defence, but he's been scuppered by injuries to key players.

We've dumped a big chunk of our bad signings, but not all of them, and we haven't yet given Rafa the cash to build a new squad. Next season will be better, assuming we stay up, of course, which I'm confident we will.

The Davey Moyes we see now is a better manager than the one who spent over a decade creating a glass ceiling. He's a better manager and a more adventurous coach.

I look forward to seeing his West Ham team. He looks for all the world as if he's getting the hang of this footy lark

I don't think Moshiri or Everton can avoid losing another manager, so, provided he doesn't walk away, I think Benitez will possibly be allowed to see out his contract.

The January transfer window will be very interesting, as we are still largely constrained by FFP, so how much will Benitez have to spend?

We have a decent 12 or 13 players but, beyond that, we lack quality. When you think of the 100s of millions we have spent and we end up with Rondon as our backup striker and Begovic as our back-up keeper. We havent got a right-back or left-back to come into the team when Coleman or Digne gets injured.

Yes, we have been unfortunate with long-term injuries to Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, and now Doucouré will be missing for a number of games alongside Mina. So I think any new manager faced with this injury list would struggle.

But, when he joined, Benitez said he understood what Evertonians wanted from their team, and he went on to say they want to see their team on the front foot and attacking teams. Well, that's not the way he has set the side up prior to the Spurs game.

We have started very passively and struggled to gain the upper hand against Southampton and Burnley and, even against Norwich, we allowed them far to much room.

Against Spurs, he started with a high pressing game and was getting some success doing that. So I would hope, when he gets everybody back fit, he decides on his style of play, and I hope it's a more high-pressing game than the "sit back and see what happens" approach.

I don't think he will hear Goodison singing his praises but most, even those like me that didn't want him, respect him and wish him well while he is here.

David Pearl @29,

I'll raise your Moyes and Kenwright with Royle and Johnson!!

Royle won us a trophy and Johnson put £21million of his own money in and built us a stand... now give me anything tangible the other two clowns gave us?

You see, Moyes was Kenwright's enabler for me; if he'd have just told it like it was, instead of saying "I've got the bestCchairman in the world" – despite not being given the basic resources to do his job, I'd have had more respect for him.

As for Kenwright, I was delighted he came in with his 'plan' to buy out Johnson ... but as soon as he fucked the NTL deal up, I knew he was a bullshitter from then and the only thing he's done since then is prove me right time and time again.

Tony #26. Andy Hunter is an Evertonian.

He is a relative of my mate's wife and is definitely a Blue.

He recently told my friend that Moshiri turned up one day at Finch Farm (2019?) looking pleased as punch and told the club - "Because of my Arsenal contacts I've done a top deal and purchased Alex Iwobi for a great price".

The dumbfounded silence that greeted this was unsurprisingly deafening. He consulted no one - just did it himself.

I bet Brands was made up.

Richard,

A good assessment of the Kenwright and Moyes show. Everton's standing in football and the narrative they built around the club diminished our reputation and history more than anything Johnson managed in what was a calamitous period. For Kenwright to have underperformed Peter Johnson encapsulates the Kenwight era.

Tell me the average league positions of Moyes and Kenwright compared to the Moshiri years and the Johnson years? We had a lot more respect under them, not less. We are currently a bit of a joke. Snookered by our recruitment.

Richard, the same £21 million that he then wanted back after a year that had us buy Dacourt, Materazzi, Collins only for him to pull the rug from under us.

Number 1 thing is to improve recruitment. I don't trust Brands or Benitez to do that.

If Calvert-Lewin and Doucouré don't come back soon, we will find ourselves around 15th.

David,

Other clubs grew stronger and better financially while Everton went into loss making mode under Kenwright.

Then to find Moshiri was the only mug in town willing to buy the club but let him carry on running the train crash that he created.

He was lucky to have Moyes – otherwise, we would have been relegated long ago when we nearly were with his "What a manager" Martinez.

The club has become the "Kenwright" show rather than a well run entity.

Off topic but it looks like Seamus Coleman is playing as part of a back 3 tonight against Portugal.

Will be interesting to see how he and our old boy Shane Duffy get on against Ronaldo and Co.

DP @42,

Johnson invested his own money in Everton, built the Park End Stand, won an FA Cup, and left us in the black. Kenwright has sold off every asset – players, training grounds (both Bellefield and Finch Farm), sold so many players last minute of transfer windows including the best player to ever come out of our Acadamy.

He turned down the money for King's Dock from Paul Gregg because Gregg asked for the profit from concerts and non-football events.

Now call me cynical but what exactly has Boys Pen Bill actually done for us football-wise...??? Nothing. Business development? Nothing. He mortgaged us to the hilt with extortionate interest rates from Philip Greens British Virgin Isles mates.

Our Fuhrer even stopped AGMs because he didn't like being called out by the supporters who were shareholders....

Free speech – now that's a novel thing for the teary-eyed one when he himself utters such utter bullshit: "Now what would Everton do!!"

David (Pearl). Hi David. 'We had a lot more respect under them' (Moyes and Kenwright).

I think I agree with you David but that 'respect' was for being plucky and – yuck – 'punching above our weight'. It was not the respect given to a genuinely Top 6 club.

If I had a pound for each time I heard that 'Moyes was doing a great job', I'd be funding the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

But the 'great job' was keeping us '6th, 7th-ish, 8th...' And I think that the general sense in and around ToffeeWeb and elsewhere was that he could do no more (and I do grant you that he got us to a better place) and would not take us up a few places over the long run.

That level of expectation would not be acceptable today, I think, in the wake of a wasted small fortune and not just a magnificent around the corner but a beautiful stadium (etc.)

Yes, Moyes has changed for the better, as Darren says so eloquently. Maybe his 2021 approach might rock our boat for the better. But that respect in what now seems such distant times was for the hard-up (comparatively) plucky Everton.

I'm done with that, David, mate.

David,

So what part of 'plucky little Everton' that Kenwright and Moyes contrived do you agree with? They irreparably sold us down for a whole generation of fans with their self-congratulatory comments and complete lack of challenge for the other to do better.

Far from waking a sleeping giant, they put us in permanent slumber.

I've just read about how Walter Smith cornered Hunter at Old Trafford and said "Are you trying to get me the fuckin' sack?" He'd rightly slaughtered Everton after they went out of the FA Cup, at home to Tranmere, Jim P. I can only assume that the journalist was taught a great lesson in the art of reporting on football clubs, and staying in with the right people that day...

That's a very interesting story about Moshiri purchasing Iwobi, and Brands remaining silent... maybe got him a seat on the Everton board!

Please guys let's not try and rewrite the history of Kenwright's tenure.

Having read all the posts, and many that I agree with by the way, I am still bewildered and flummoxed that Moshiri, who was hailed as our 'Manna from Heaven' when we were starving in the Desert of Despond. Since then, I need not reiterate the profligate wastage that has followed.

Now here's my problem: how can (allegedly) a Top Accountant be so 'gung-ho' with the Family Silver, and albeit the small fortune he has thrown 'into the hat' (it was a big hat, belonged to Kenwright by the way), seemingly not bat an eyelid, when we have squandered (yes squandered) the best part of £500M?

Again, allegedly overseen by Jabba the Hutt, who has also accumulated vast wealth (no questions asked and no pack drill), which again leaves me questioning: Is this some sort of money-laundering scheme? How can these 'top businessmen' allow it to happen, and continue to condone error after error?

It's a pity we weren't allowed to be The People's Club, as I am sure that between us, the fans, we could pick better players and managers, and capitalise on many commercial aspects that seem to go unexplored by those that are 'leading us'. Let's also shed this Old Boys Network as, in the business world, that always leads to complacency, and covering eachother's backs, with little or very limited success.

Ian @45 and Derek @50,

Both sum up very well, the reason we have been in absolute stagnation for almost a quarter of a Century.

If anyone can come across a copy of The Liver Birds, Season 3, Episode 12, just about sums up what a person is willing to do for money.

By the way, Joe the Liverpool fan who slates our club used to stand in the Boys Pen, or so I am led to believe.

I just wish I knew how to put a link up, warning of the dangers as far back as 2011, when the Blue Union held a demonstration at Goodison Park. I just spent the best part of half an hour reading it over and over to make sense of what I was reading.

Anyway, well worth a read:

The Blue Union and the Everton Board – A-Plague on Both your Houses: A Reply – Posted by The People's Group, 5 March 2012

It sums up how, even now, we are being led by an incompetent board.

Big thumbs up to whichever Ed got the link accessible for me.

If you have not read the above warning from 2011 – a full 10 years ago – if you get a bit of spare time on your hands, click into it and have a good read.

Brian,

Thanks for that. It sums up why we are still struggling with Kenwright at the helm. No wonder Trevor Birch walked away after a few weeks.

Selective amnesia in lauding Moyes for doing a fantastic job with West Ham, but filtering out the appalling job he did at Man Utd, Real Sociedad and Sunderland.

He was a resounding failure at all three clubs, as he was at Everton. Unless we now regard the failure to win a single trophy in 12 years as a success.

Steve @55,

To be fair, despite the millions Man Utd have spent and their ‘pulling power', they have won one Cup and one League Cup since whisky nose retired.

That's despite ‘world class' managers like Van Gaal, Mourhino and Solskjaer. Moyes picked up a poisoned chalice, taking over from Ferguson so his lack of success wasn't surprising.

Okay, United were Champions but they were an ageing side that needed overhauling. But let's use any excuse to hoof Moyes in the chunks, eh?

Sir Alex Ferguson chose the right time to retire from Man Utd, at the top with a very ageing squad.

The Manager that had the toughest stint was the one coming in straight afterwards, with only 10 months given, before being shown the door.

We are quick to jump on the Moyes skipping to Old Trafford, and buying a new pair of kecks to impress Fergie. I get the anger, all wrong how he went about it, but at the time, who in their right mind would turn down the best manager's vacancy?

We lose sight of Lineker turning Man Utd down, telling Leicester he wants to play for Everton, Kendall telling Man City he wants to go back to Everton, Stones telling Barnsley he wants to go to Everton... it happens all the time.

I do not agree how it was discussed before the season was over, so, on that basis, I can see why there is anger, but I can also see why he took the job as well.

Steve,

I think "Resounding failure" is a bit OTT.

He had a better record than Mourhino and Van Gaal over the same number of games and he inherited a squad who didnt want to agree they were past their sell by date, Sunderland were already a lost cause and a Scottish Presbyterian in Spain was only going to end one way.

Steve 55,

I disagree on Man Utd. Can you imagine Moyes walking in from Everton – plucky Everton! – and trying to instil his methods on Champions League egos like that of Rio Ferdinand? I think given time, he would have gotten somewhere at Old Trafford, but the players threw him under the bus.

The Sunderland tenure amused me, where supposedly the first thing he said to the players was that they were in a relegation battle! He made some poor signings there too.

James 59.

I actually remember an interview with Rio Ferdinand where he was asked his opinion of Moyes taking the job. His answer was something along the lines of "He will do well if he listens to the senior players."

Moyes and Kenwright at the time gave us stability and guaranteed Top 6 to Top 8 for most seasons. I think it was a refreshing change when he left and Matinez came in. Perhaps Moshiri coming in was a year or two too late. For both Moyes or Martinez.

After Martinez, we changed styles, formations and have lost our identity. Still paying for Walsh and Koeman... and it's not over yet. I think another 2 years before we can realistically even think about trying again for Top 4.

Tosun and lwobi will join the long list of players that we paid £20M+ for only to leave for nothing. Making a profit on players are few and far between. The few players that are worth anything could be sold and we can have zero confidence that they will be adequately replaced.