Burnley game joins the list of Covid postponements

If Everton are denied their request for postponement, then I I hope the club takes out an official complaint against the EPL.

All other teams cough and sneeze and the game is postponed.

The season of goodwill, my arse, in context of the EPL.

All take care and enjoy!<

UTFT!

Can appreciate that it’s maybe tactical not naming them, but makes it hard for us to judge as fans if this is right or not.

Personally I think the premier league should be allowing any club to request a cancel or no club to, but looks like we agreed the “14” rule too, so our own fault for reporting DCL as fit (and Gbamin / Tosun as ‘ever’ fit).

Hopefully it’s 5 from the poorer players, and not another 5 ‘starters’. For all we know it could also be 5 defenders, or 5 attackers. In either event that’s not acceptable.

Some more info please Everton.

Maybe the EPL should follow the NFL who, I believe (American cousins please correct if not), are obliged to produce evidence of fitness a few (specified) days before each game and thereby rule out that player for the fixture.

It would save all the silly cat-and-mouse gamesmanship and mean clubs like Everton (who I believe are very fair when it comes to these things) will be treated the same as everyone else. For a change.

But we know Richarlison, Townsend, Mina and Davies are injured. So two more injuries, maybe Delph? whose absence hasn't been explained. and maybe one of Rondon, Gray and Tosun who missed the Chelsea game., which means 2 of them are fit. But he says that they tested the players before Chelsea and none had covid, but five tested positive after. Presumably then since it was "after the game" he means six of the squad who played Chelsea, excluding goalies who we know are fit. So 6 from the remaining group, but we know from the earlier Math he is regarding Gordon, Simms and Branthwaite as "youngsters" and presumably the same goes for Dobbin and Onyango, Which leaves us with 10 suspects for covid exposure of whom half are likely positive:

Coleman
Kenny
Gbamin
Allan
Holgate
Keane
Godfrey
Gomez
Doucoure
Iwobi.

He then says we will have to play players out of position but knowing that we have these players fit:
3 goalies
Digne
Gordon
Simms
Branthwaite
DCL (who he says can't play 90 minutes)

So presuming these players play in their actual positions, the absentees are at right back, one central defender and or midfield, which ties in with my lists of suspects.

But we have four players in the suspect list (Coleman, Kenny, Godfrey, Holgate) who can play right back. So it's unlikely all of them are among them are among the five, and we have three CBs in the suspect list to fill one spot alongside Branthwaite, so odds are they aren't all injured. So my money is on Gomez, Docoure and Allan as we have fewer options to cover them, (Gbamin and Onyango only) which would necessitate playing a kid or someone out of position. Also it reinforces the notion Delph is one of the injured five as he is a midfielder.

So our fit players are:
Pickford
Digne
Branthwaite
Gordon
2 from Gray, Rondon and Tosun
DCL
Simms

plus 5 from the 10 covid suspects. So pretty much almost half are fit players are strikers/forwards, and we set up defensively with one striker. This is a problem.

Save Calvert-Lewin for the last 20-30 minutes and play Godfrey at left-back again or ask Lucas to "do us a favour" and actually play.

We can't keep postponing the odd game and allow others to play. The backlog will probably lead to even more injuries. Let's be honest, most of us have been crying out for the youngsters to play anyway and we're not exactly up against the best team in the country.

My cousin has got me a place in the Executive Box for this game so I'll be surrounded by deluded Burnley fans. Spare a thought for me if we get beat as they are relentless when they win. And it's the ref's fault if they lose.

Call it the Optimum variant as in the Nil Satis Nisi Optimum variant.

Just ask Tosun and Lonergan to deliver a food package to one of the infected.

Oumar Niasse was the only player to get done for simulation. Did not here much from the board defending him. Even down to the financial fair play. with all the cash in the club, is there no-one capable of manipulating the books?

Barcelona who were on their arse, magically found investment to purchase a player. with teams crashing out with Covid, perhaps the Premier League should take a trip to Finch Farm to look at why the Everton players are not suffering.

I don't think it will be long before we see it introduced to be honest.

If Newcastle are still on 10 points after 20 games, it'll be hard to see them getting to 40 points in the remaining 20 games.

If the Magpies are still on 10 points after 20 games, I'll be gobsmacked if they take a further 30 points from another 20 games as that means they'll have played 2 more games than anybody else – or have Everton been lined up to play the Magpies four times this season?

Just to tell you that they are currently 13 points down on last season. Burnley are down 7, as are we.
Last season, the Toon picked up 22 points in the 18 fixtures they still have to play.

But 40 points will be more than enough. 36 should be safe this year. Last time a team went down with 40 points was 2003. 2011 was 39 and last season was 28.

The Premier League is taking the proverbial by having floating standards on the application and translation of the rules for a club not being able to put out a team. The integrity of the Premier League.

The so-called Top 6 take the piss and the Premier League let them dictate and placate them on most occasions.

Hopefully, the Everton spirit will get a result at Turf Moor.

Do I get a prize for your 'smart arse' award?

I would have liked Rafa to make a fuss about Tarkovsky and his terrible assault on Richarlison without as much as a free-kick. We lost him for several games. About time our manager put the ref under pressure and make Tarkovsky ultra-aware of his actions. Imagine if he had done Salah. What would Klopp be saying about it?

Everton wanted answers for last years postponement, they should certainly be asking questions, this time round.

Dale #29, in this case we need all the cancel culture we can get. Call it off already.

Just how bad do the numbers have to be before you can have the game postponed ?

I always recall when they had to play a game with 11 reserves after most of the regular players went down with flu and guess what, Everton got fined by the League.

Then RS did the same thing and got a slap on the wrist.

I really don't want DCL to start this game if he is in any way not 100%. Better to make sure he will be good to go in the new year rather than have him break down again.

Playing some of the youngsters may not be such a bad thing at the moment.

Too often managers are too conservative - too focused on short term (as they know they're likely only short term incumbents themselves), that they don't 'risk'.

Even if the results are not what we desire, if any of Dobbin, Simms, Branthwaite, Onyango, Kenny and whoever else manage to make an impression and step up and show they are capable, it could save us millions.

Dobbin was very impressive at Chelsea. As was Kenny imo. Branthwaite of course was excellent. Onyango had almost no time but looked up for it. Simms had a thankless task (and has always needed bedding in time when stepping up). Add that to Gordon's already cementing his place in the reckoning.

They won't all make it. But if a couple do, and it saves us wasting money like we have, it could point to a better future.

Jeez, if Benitez was still at the rs, he'd be all over it, is there valium in the water at Finch Farm or something

BTW, every time I see a Grafton reference I laugh and then shudder.

It would be interesting if Rafa has to put out a side. It would be even more interesting if they did better than expected.

I did expect a different Everton to resurface in January, when the progress of young players, recent transfers and Benitez still in place would change the narrative and dependency on certain players.

We haven't as a team, had a lot to shout about, and Covid has played it's part, plus injuries and poor form, in ruining things as far as games are concerned, but here's hoping the coming Year and the remainder of this season, sees an upturn in fortunes for us. Yo Ho Ho !

If we have 9 fit senior players, and Branthwaite, Onyango, Simms and Dobbin count as “appropriately experienced U21’s”, then we’re right on the cusp.

Burnley have already had a game called off a couple of hours before kick off against Watford so I guess he wont be overly upset if it happens again. Surely the whole point of the managers and captains meeting with the Premier league was to stipulate what criteria will be used to get games called off. But it doesn't include teams having injuries only excess covid cases will allow a game to be called off. So why Benitez mentioned the injured players I don't know he knows that's not part of the criteria.

And as for all this nonsense about player welfare, heaven knows what Klopp would have made of when we played games on Christmas day and had another game 24 hours later on Boxing day, I don't know. They also didnt have 26 man first team squads back then either.

In some extreme cases, fans have flown from wherever to watch 'their team' many Hundreds/Thousands of Air Miles, only to be let down two hours before. As usual the fans who are, or used to be, the lifeblood of the game, are of little consideration !

Merry Christmas to Blues everywhere.

Another fixture pile up on midweek nights in April and May on the horizon.

Again it maddeningly frustrates that we waste THREE blank weekends before Christmas watching England slap some pub teams from Eastern Europe when we could be having games from the domestic league.

Instead of that managers will moan about fixture congestion at Christmas but nothing is ever taken to task with FIFA for the amount of international breaks we suffer.

God knows when Everton will next play a game, the Newcastle and Brighton games will no doubt be affected by more "Covid" cases and the Hull game you'd imagine another reason will be brought up to cancel that.

One time I used to love the Boxing Day football and festive games, but it seems now with the way life is that football will lose the festive fixtures permanently before long, of course next year (Covid variant 155) we have the worst World Cup in history invading the Christmas season.

The priority is the health of everyone and the situation is bad.

The U.K. should have implemented the Winter break many years ago although it was always nice to have the Boxing day games.

My sister emailed me early this morning heading up from London with her two young boys for the weekend to see the game. They’re probably arriving just about now. Ah well I guess Rafa can have Christmas at home instead of FF. Really it’s the right thing to do but this was obvious a few weeks they should have just stopped games for a few weeks

Strange how our minds in time thinking it was shown first on Xmas Day, but instead find out it was actually Boxing Day.

As for Sunday's postponement. This was obviously coming. I am assuming that SKY have tried to ensure enough games play to sell their advertising.

Happy Christmas one and all. See you in the New Year. Cheers!

How have you only seen it 20 times? I must have seen it 200. Never gets old. Brian, The Snowman -- another classic -- with the David Bowie opening. That apart, when I was a kid they used to show the same films every single Christmas though none were actually Christmas related: The Great Escape, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins. Nonetheless, we watched them every year, and recorded them so we could watch them through the year before watching them "live" again the next Christmas.

I think they can't care less about Everton, they just don't want Newcastle whining that Burnley will now have four games in hand heading into the January transfer window.

My favorite Bogart is The Treasure of Sierra Madre. Shows how greed drives you mad. The football authorities should watch it

Much as I like Bogart, hard not to rate Clint Eastwood as the finest actor ever.

Brian, I think you're all alone on that one. He will, however, go down as one of America's greatest directors.

Bobby Mallon I wrote my post before I read yours so sorry for repeating it but I agree 100%

Mike (88), with you on that regarding Clint Eastwood being a very good director of films rather than being a great actor.

I am a fan of The Duke also (not the Everton one though he's not bad) but I feel it's more because of exposure to his films as a kid (nostalgia) than because of his actual acting ability.

I fully agree. In normal (non Covid) times clubs have squads well able to cope with the Christmas/New Year games.
I'm sick and tired of foreign managers complaining about fixture overload when, as Bobby says, the very same managers don't raise a peep about meaningless preliminary European games or nonsensical International breaks.
If they don't like it they can always F off back to whichever league they've come from!

Scrooge (Alastair Sim) is my must see crimbo film.

What weeks would you choose for your winter break? What happens if the weather is atrocious before and after the break but fine during it?
It reminds me of the old insurance tale of the farmer who insured his herd of 100 cattle against being struck by lightening. On average he lost about one, each year, so he told the insurance company that in future he'd just insure for the loss of one. Fine, replied the company. Which one would you like to insure?

Very good actor, no question. But finest ever? Uh-uh. Give me Poitier, Hanks, Streep (Bridges of Madison County was an acting mismatch), Hepburn, Stewart, Fonda, Steiger, Hackman, Freeman. People who can put actual emotions on screen.

The problem is as economic activity resumes, especially international travel, the virus will thrive.

I speak as someone who should actually be 4,000 miles away, but when doing my fit-to-fly test last week, got a result that means I'm spending my first Xmas with family since 2012 - silver clouds and all that.

And I'm normally in a country that had lockdowns, curfews (passes secured via an app to go shop), and is about half the size of UK population-wise but has had fewer than 9k deaths.

I've no love for politicians of most colours, certainly not the incumbents here, but I also wonder how else they could've / should've dealt with things.

Strange times we live in.. To a brighter, less virulent future.

The Railway Children never really explained why "Daddy," had to go away for a while leaving Dinah Sheridan to play at "being poor for a while," even though their country digs were luxurious compared with the tenement slums real poor people were living in. Was the Dad a commie? or something. Whatever it was he got out pretty sharpish after all the drama with the fat controller Bernard Cribbins and all.

All we know is it was very rude and the director insisted she said it, to get the shocked looking face, from the Duke.

Would love to have seen Chaplin in Modern Times. One day maybe.

Brian, assume it was a particularly off-color variation on making children, but Maureen insisted that the Duke and Ford never disclose it, and they were faithful to her wishes.

Did you know she broke her hand when she belted Wayne after that first kiss in the cottage?

Here’s one for you all, at the end of the Italian job, Michael Caine says I have a plan, it was then going to start the scene, in the next Italian job, but because it flopped in America, they never made a follow up.

Anyway his plan was to keep the engine running, until the fuel ran out, making it lighter at the back of the coach so they could then get the gold.

How the fuck did I let this absolute genius sail under my radar for so long ?

Already started correcting my remissness - If thats a word

Merry Christmas all. Have a really good one (or festive period generally since you don't observe, Mike).

Even we know that would have been an improvement on Rondon!

Kelly's Heroes and Where Eagles Dare are great shouts. I can and have watched both countless times. Give me a better theme tune than Burning Bridges or a character better than Oddball?

Not very Christmasy but sticking with the war theme, a more modern film I like is Lone Survivor.

And go and watch Jim Broadbent in Get Santa.

I know what you mean Chris Jones. I had that when in Cyprus and even Italy. Strange feeling doing Christmas in sunglasses and 20 degree celcius. Much prefer those frosty mornings like yesterday with the low sun rise coming up and the flask keeping my hands warm this time of year. The dogs? Well they're somewhere!!

This thread has been like a Monday night out with my mates and we get on the subject of films and film stars or music and the different songs and singers, with films because of our ages Black and White films get a good per cent age of the conversation, mostly because they were very good films, one of my favourites was “ Detective Story “ with Kirk Douglas,most of the action takes place in a police station, it’s been on TV recently onTalking Movies channel 81 which shows a lot of shite but some very good old movies like. “ On The Waterfront”.

Up until 1955, football was as much of a Christmas tradition as Turkey, Brussel Sprouts, and frighteningly embarrassing attempts at charades.

Thousands of spectators would put all festivities on hold to flock down to the stadiums to watch the finest football teams compete against one another.

And on Christmas Day in 1888, Everton travelled to their pre-Goodison Park home; Anfield, to take on Blackburn Park Road in the Lancashire Cup, before regrouping to face Ulster FC straight after.

In what considered to be typical Everton tradition, the Blues did not make things easy for themselves as they fell behind to Blackburn in their opening match.

However, they came roaring back to win 3-2 and send their supporters into a brief interval happy.

Their victory over Blackburn was just half of their working day, as they had to then face Ulster FC in an exhibition match. Fortunately, this affair was a lot easier, as they cruised to a 3-0 victory against the Northern Irish side.

While Premier League managers have hissed over the prospect of playing two days later, Everton were barely given 24 hours of rest, before they had to pull on the famous blue jerseys and take to the field once more.

And if lining up for another tough match less than one day after playing two matches was hard enough, their fixture against Bootle was played amid a furious hailstorm.

The contest was as drab as a Christmas Cracker without any toys or jokes inside, as the Toffees’ 0-0 draw against Bootle meant they were unable to secure their third victory in 36 hours.

Christmas Schedule

Merry Christmas and Happy 2022 to all who contribute to this site, let's hope that Everton's fortunes change for the better in the coming year.

One of the most British quotes ever when the Paras where asked to surrender:

We don't have the proper facilities to take you all prisoner. Sorry, but we can't accept your surrender.

Now there is a potential challenger to the Kelly's Heroes theme tune.

He also wrote and sang some other brilliant music, genius is often too quickly given to a lot of people but not, in my opinion, to Leonard Cohen, he wrote a lovely essay about Jesus Christ, which I copied and have it somewhere in the house.

Dave #140, yes, an incredibly powerful Cohen song, especially sung in that gravelly bass. Have it on my phone.

Ray #137, the first two were magnificent. I found the third depressing.

Brian #136, yes, and I'll also nominate Longest Day, Guns of Navarone, Midway, Enemy at the Gates, Dirty Dozen, Great Escape and Inglorious Bastards. And parts of Private Ryan are extraordinary.

What took them so long?

Peps mention of a strike?

SFA?

On to war films as is the subject, I like military history, 1917, Hell and Back, Beau Gest- Garry Cooper, Cross of Iron, All Quiet on The Western Front, Four Feathers, Battle of Britain, A Bridge Too Far, Waterloo, and more.

Not always factually accurate but good entertainment.

All have a Ball tomorrow.
☘️🙏🏼🍺🥃🥃

Cross of Iron. What a call Paul.

It's in Russian with subtitles, but 9th Company in another one. The Russians is Helmand Province decades before we went there.

It was a tradition to play the same team twice over the Christmas Period. I do NOT remember players complaining about too many games. Mind you they didn't have any choice.

On Dec 26 th 1956 I went with my mate Alan Clare on the train to Birmingham to see us lose 6-2'
On Dec 27 We went to Goodison to see Everton win 5-1 against the same team Birmingham City

What a Christmas Teenage memory that was. I think there would be a Player Protest if they tried that today. The double fixture Christmas games were always fun and lots of suitable refreshments both home and away

The lost battalion is a decent film but set in World War One, the main guy in the film wearing glasses, is the kid that played in the film the Champ.

I saw that on the Philarmonic Hall, enjoyed those film nights there but apart from “ It’s a Wonderful Life “ being shown today they seem to be finished because of the virus epidemic because no films are shown on the brochure for the first three months of next year.

He was a master of his trade, the likes the world will never see again.
Javier Mas ( played in Cohens band ) who plays a variety of string instruments including the banduria, laud, 12-string acoustic guitar etc is another genius - born with magical fingers !
I found his shows very moving, the lyrics travel deep into your soul, like Morricone's music, emotionally it gets to you.
Cohen recited "1000 kisses deep" - the poem in it's entirety at one of the gigs and I was sitting beside a woman who was in bits - she had just lost her husband through suicide.

If you haven't already, I think you might like "searching for sugarman", great music documentary about Rodriquez.

Happy Christmas ye all, hope its all good.

PS - Brian Williams. Hilarious! Get well soon

The Europeans have over time made epic battle films about the Napoleonic wars, brilliant battles, but not the same in sub titles.

John Boon, that’s a citation award and fantastic support, epic, and what memories.

1994- German preseason and Mike Walker, that was some tour, great memories.

I wish I could download it for all you beautiful Evertonians, but I’m just not technical, so enjoy Christmas everybody, especially Lyndon and Michael (who hates anything nostalgic!) and let’s hope that someday soon, the times are going to change for Everton, so our younger generations get to feel real joy🙏🙏

There was a geniune grittiness about this film, all the gloss and bravado of his previous westerns was gone. He'd had a miserable time with cancer by the time he made this fim and fully understood how to act his part.

I googled 'Best of' Iwobi but it was only a couple of minutes long!

Have a Merry Christmas all Blues everywhere!

One film I watched on The Philarmonic left a lasting impression on me was “ 21 Grams” the star was a South American actor who I’d never heard of, before or since, he was simply outstanding, Sean Penn was in it as well, the film starts at the end and works it’s way through the story,makes you concentrate on the story, it’s about a man, Sean Penn plays that part, waiting for a heart plant operation, which brings the title of the film into operation, because they reckon when a soul leaves the body it is 21 grams lighter.

I think this film is well worth watching.

Merry Christmas to one and all - and, yes, even Mr Hind!

"Dance with me to the end of love". I sobbed. Thought I'd forgotten how to do that

Peter. As ever lad. As ever

Mike G

There may only be a few days left in of the year but we. finally got on the same page.

Oliver

Bit of John Kay and Steppenwolf, bit of Syd Barett, bit of Richie Blackmore, I can always make room for another genius. I will check out Javier Mas too

Toney Everan

You. My old china plate, need to check in to see what condition your condition is in. Brilliant film

Andy Crooks offered the latest word, but much as I like his posts. I have long since I realised that when it came to picking winners. He is as shite as I am.

I have waited for the Inverness shark to surface and there you are

King George ?

Obviously Ruane is McMurphy...Mike Gaynes, Chief Bromden. Nurse Ratched...has to be Blue Pill..see what I did there!!!

If there has ever been a more authentic portrayal of the brutalities of war than the opening 30 minutes of the D-Day landing, or any war scene, I've yet to see it.

There are many stories of cinema audiences leaving at the end in complete silence. Such a one was my mate's Uncle Pat.

Pat lived into his 90s. A huge Irish man who lit up any and every room or pub he walked into which would soon be reeling with laughter at his presence.

He was on Omaha Beach that fateful day. He watched the film with one of his sons. Untypically of Pat, he was silent, without words even in the pub they stopped in after the film, for nearly an hour, until he softly spoke: 'That's how it was.'

Remembering it was an army of extremely young conscripts, not a professional army, made up of butchers and bakers and candlestick makers. Farm hands and thatcher's and smithies. Pat was wounded and placed in an American field hospital with all the wounded survivors. Missing limbs. The blinded. The traumatized.

Pat was Pat and day long had them laughing. Then came an order from on high. As a Brit, he had to be transferred to a British field hospital to free up space for a Yankie service man.

The chief medic point blank refused to obey the command with the following words.

'I heal their bodies. He heals their souls.'

Merry Christmas, one and all.

The real excitement is the 11.57 at Fontwell, where my new recruit Boreen Boy makes his debut over hurdles. Looks exciting, though not betting value

With a bit of look we'll see Trump going back over hurdles on Wednesday and Blue Stello building on his winning debut.

Re: Clint Eastwood - “Gran Torino” was great. Brilliant ending.
Re: John Wayne “ The Searchers”.

Re: Christmas movies - “Groundhog Day” if it counts (it was snowing) and represents every season for the past 25 years for us. Bill Murray.

If we’re talking non-Christmas movies I’ll throw in my 3 - “Heat” (actually a re-working of LA Takedown), “The Shining” (there is also a TV version) and “Taxi Driver” (Travis Bickle would have been in the Park End).

Re: Leonard Cohen.
Back in 1984, I came back to my Mum and Dad’s in Walton for Christmas (I was at Sheffield Poly). After a few beers out with my Dad I broke into “Famous Blue Raincoat” which, despite my ale house rendition, became a family favourite. I had it on cassette (it got nicked from my car in Gateshead), vinyl (left in my mate’s attic in Sheffield when I went to work abroad) and CD.
Just love that song.

“If it be your Will” - will be played when I clog it, just before Z-Cars comes on.

“The Future” is a good album from the 90s.

LC would have been a blue.

On the footy, I’m glad it’s postponed. Get back to full strength.

All the Best to all Blues.

Boxing Day -
City, Chelsea and The Arse to win. And Kempton races.

In The Heat of the Night is one of my ten best ever... brilliant by the two leads but also some superstar supporting actors there... Lee Grant, Warren Oates, Anthony James (later whipped to death by Eastwood in High Plains Drifter), Matt Clark, Beah Richards and Scott Wilson (the US ambassador in The Last Samurai).

Darren, we always agree on something once a year. Left it late this year. Like an 89th minute Tim Cahill header.

Merry Christmas

"Obtoos" - wonderful.

Just the thought of Gene Wilder brings a smile to my face. A manic comic genius

The Magus - crap film, great book.

Remember Jack Nicholson, Randy Quaid and Otis Young? Nicholson and Young, two Military policeman taking a young sailor to a military jail for a long stay, take their time and have few beers along the way.

I am I and Everton is Withnail.

It's one of those all time films that somehow goes under most peoples radar.

What a film! The story and the reality brought to it by the actors.

Dude, “the Rug, kinda brought the room together “

Don't Look Now?

I couldn't remember that one offhand, I've just looked it up and little bits of it are coming back to me. I'll watch that again.

One thing is for sure I very rarely want to watch any modern fims again

Mel Brooke’s, made 2 jokes in his entire life!imo

‘War-riors, come out to play-yay’

Not a film but the TV series Normal.

We need the men from downtown to send Alec Baldwin on a mercy mission to Finch Farm. He can show Tom Davies his brass balls and snatch the coffee from Rondon. Then break the bad news: you’re fired.

Fantastic TV

Yes I was at Plymouth in '75. Mick Lyons finest hour as a Blue. Should've been our year as two 2nd division sides got to the Final. The next round, the curse of Clive Thomas even then, 2 years before the FA Cup semi. Lyons scored a perfectly good goal when it was one each vs Fulham.

Lots if nearly moments in the 70s and, as Latchford said, we was only a decent goalie away from winning the league twice.

I enjoyed both. Love Tom and Greg's dynamic.

https://youtu.be/-PdHtWmP-Vw

I sometimes think he's been adopted as the patron saint of so-called referees ever since when it comes to us Toffees.

In terms of films... you're going for "Thomas, the Wank Engine"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N2o6MAxecA

Surely one of the most moving scenes in a war film with a Christmas theme.

The other, for me, one of the greatest comedies, Woody Allen's "Annie Hall", I see another few jokes every time I watch although can't seem to find it online these days.

And so to bed.

It just shows you how many brilliant films have been made with hundreds not mentioned on here but I’ll leave it there with thanks to Michael and Lyndon for letting us indulge ourselves on Christmas Eve, thank you both very much.

Yes Thomas was a bit of a Roger Hunt but Clattenburgs refereeing when he had a very big part in helping Liverpool to beat us 2-1 was pathetic, unforgettable and definitely unforgivable.

Mike#241. I watched a trilogy of classics myself last night to get into the Christmas mood, finishing off with her best one of all – "Debbie does Dallas".

Ah it brought a tear to my eye.

‘North by Northwest’ was shown yesterday but you can probably get still on iPlayer.
Cary Grant may just about be the coolest man who ever lived. Clint Eastwood is not bad either.

Yes Brian, very moving.

I bet you needed a box of tissues.

Merry Christmas to Blues everywhere. 💙

COYB

"Debbie does Dallas."

Ah it brought a tear to my eye.

I believe the entire (well almost) population of Dallas cried too !

No-one will ever come here again. :-)

Also, most Clint Eastwood films. Mike Gaynes mentioned ‘The Bridges of Madison County’. I think Clint is great in that. He's a great ‘screen actor', brimming with charisma and larger than life.

Tom Hanks is a great actor, everything he does is utterly convincing. He also does a good impression of Eastwood being a Director.

'Once Upon a Time in America’, if only for Morricone's soundtrack

One underrated war film: ‘Attack’ with Jack Palance, he's playing against type as well.

Kieran chose ‘Paths of Glory’ brilliant but no-one has mentioned Dunkirk or 1917? Both superb.

Xmas film sort of: ‘The Princess Bride’... not what you may expect.

‘Oliver’ the musical, the horror classic ‘Chitty Chitty Bang Bang’!!
Top American actors not yet mentioned: Marlon Brando, Steve McQueen, Dustin Hoffman, Paul Newman, strangely underappreciated... Jeff Bridges, Michael Douglas, Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford … just off the top of my head.

Have to say I'm a sucker for the old black-and-white movies so have to go along with the nominations of ‘Angels with Dirty Faces' and ‘On The Waterfront', classics with icons like Gagney and Brando.

Can I also give a shout out for any of the Flash Gordon films I watched on Saturday morning matinees in the '50s. Of the more "modern" films I'm surprised, no one has mentioned ‘Dances with Wolves', brilliant in my book.

A Merry and safe Christmas to all.

‘Citizen Kane’

‘Night of the Hunter’

Robert Mitchum and the only film Charles Laughton ever directed.
Still gives me chills to this day.

**
"INDEPENDENT, FIRE AT WILL!"

Zulu 1964 - absolute epic

Enio Morriconi, was a music genius and his sound tracks Shaghetti Western music and to the Mission, are outstanding.

Barry great shout for ‘Zulu’ and also for ‘Zulu Dawn’, and ‘Spartacus’ – Kirk Douglas.

I reckon by this thread there's a good call for a TW Film addicts club as well. Lol.

All have a great day and enjoy!

I have posted this before: There is a B-movie called ‘Apache Drums’. A bunch of hardened cowboys are besieged by Apaches. For some reason, there is a Welsh pastor who gets them all singing, in Welsh, ‘Men of Harlech’. The film was made in the early '50s.

I agree that Chitty should be classified as a horror film. The child catcher is, without doubt, the most convincingly menacing character ever seen on film – ahead of Oliver Reed in Oliver and SIr Ben Kingsley's brief appearance in ‘Sexy Beast’.

And for the avoidance of doubt ‘Die Hard’ is a Christmas film. It takes place of Xmas Eve and John McLean's wife is named Holly!

Shaun @263, spot on, the best, reminds me of my job, some times.😁

Those were the days.

The only film I ever saw twice in a week because the dialogue was drowned out by audience laughter it was the living embodiment of rolling in the aisles.

"REVERAN!!"

And then John Boorman's ‘Excalibur’, exemplary in its portrayal of magic and the thin line separating this world from the next.

Or that wonderful US film ‘The Warriors’, where the journey of a small gang back home parallels that of Odysseus back to Ithaca from Troy?

Or ‘The Mission’, where the ending never fails to bring tears to my eyes…

Bringing it all up to date, as one familiar with Baudrillard, I loved the Matrix Trilogy and am looking forward immensely to ‘Resurrection’…

And so on… better stop there a turkey is waiting – and no I don't mean Iwobi!

I can just imagine the scene. Hardened desperadoes, possibly played by some of Hollywood's best heavies... Jack Elam, Lee Van Cleef, perhaps Ernest Borgnine, sitting round the campfire. Lee suggests a sing-song.

“How about ‘One Man Went To Mow’?”

Jack Elam is not up for this. “That's better done as a 4-part harmony. Now if Strother Martin was here... he's just wonderful in those higher registers.” P>“Audie Murphy's good.” <>“Yeah, but he likes to sing rounds. He had a bunch of us doing ‘Frère Jacques' in Dodge City. Timings were all wrong. We got run out of town.”

Borgnine is pulling faces over his food. “Do any of you actually like Mexican cuisine?”

“Well it is a bit samey. For example, these tortilla chips. Wouldn't some sour cream ‘n' chives improve them. And tamales. Tamales! They're just Spotted Dick except you can't be sure what you might find in them.”

Lee Van Cleef can hardly contain himself. “Spotted Dick! Did I ever tell you about the time he nearly got shot for cheating at a capella in Abilene?”

“Yes!”

“Anyway, what shall we sing tonight? We've got a busy day tomorrow razing that Mexican village to the ground. The least they deserve is for us to rehearse a song before we massacre them.” Jack Elam was a man of principle.

Lee thought for a moment. He put one finger in his ear. Hummed to himself.

“I think we should sing those Mexicans something we'll always be remembered by…”

I watched ‘Excalibur’ again recently. The use of established music for the soundtrack is incredibly well done, especially Siegfried's Funeral March from Wagner's Ring Cycle at the end when Percival throws the sword onto the lake, the hand rises from the lake to grasp it, and Arthur is taken on a boat into the sunset. Again, great cinema.

It's music good enough to accompany a Ball-Harvey-Kendall one-touch passing move through midfield in the late 60s.

Our Uefa Cup campaign 2007-08, Nuremburg away. Myself, my nephew, a couple of lads from Liverpool we used to see at the games, and about 8,000 bluenose had filled the city for a couple of days prior to kick-off. We met and shared a pint with Kevin Ratcliffe the night before in some bar (he was co-commentator on Channel 5), anyway I digress!

After the game (we won 2-0 – Arteta penalty and a solo from big Vic), the city Council had put on a curfew of I think midnight. Knowing this, and wanting to carry on drinking, we holed up in a tiny bar somewhere in the city off the beaten track. There were a few locals in there, but mostly bluenoses all having a crack.

I seem to remember there being a couple of 'ladies of the night' in there and I warned my nephew off the idea after one of them made a bee line for him.

It was a freezing night, the bar had a velvet curtain across the main door, which you had to pull to behind you. We are all in their getting merry, and some lads were asking the barmaid to lift her top up, which she refused. Then, after they offered money, up she did!

As it was past curfew, we were told by the staff that, if the old bill walked in, to say we were invited as guests etc so we sort of kept an eye on the velvet curtain.

Then the door went, we all spun round, velvet curtain is slung back, we expected the police to stroll in, but no, it was a local guy with receding ginger hair wearing a deep red-coloured velvet jacket! He instantly shat himself looking at the gathered throng, but he needn't have worried because as quick as lighting some sharp bluenose at the bar said "Fuckin hell – it's Willy Wonker!"

Cue mass hysteria, the poor bloke didn't know whether to turn tail or not, but we ushered him in and up to the bar, where he spent the night laughing, trying to understand scouse, a bit bemused by it all amongst good lads out for the crack. Incidentally, I don't think he had to pay for a drink all night!

When we trudged back to our hotel, it was full of more bluenoses, all needing food. The hotel kitchens were closed (it was probably 3am by then) so they hastily but very calmly organised a take out from McDonald's for what seemed a 100 blokes, all inebriated to different degrees.

I remember it all turned up in a small white van about half-an-hour later! German efficiency!

What a fantastic night though!

I've just watched a really good film now called ‘Lion’ (Nicole Kidman)

Most of my favorites have been mentioned already like ‘Blazing Saddles’, ‘One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest’, ‘Midnight Express’ and ‘Warriors’. There was a film around the same time as ‘Warriors’ that I went to see and It's one that stuck with me as being great but never wanted to watch it again in case I spoilt it for myself. ‘Rollerball’, which had James Caan in.

Good British film doc that I saw was ‘Touching the Void’. I always love a good true story.

Best wishes again to you all and let's hope we're in better shape as a team whenever we get to play next.

Did I miss something?

Boorman very under-rated: did you see the bit in Insignificance I think where Marilyn Monroe uses a trainset to explain Einsteins theory of relativity. It really works!

Pete Rollerball is every bit as good as you remember: indeed anticipates European Super League…

Touching the Void

It's "so far out there" what happened to those two I'm surprised Hollywood didn't jump on this.

I can only advise everyone on here to watch it, grab a beer and be prepared to curl up and wince with pain.

P.S. The book is worth a read, I did this after the film and really enjoyed the extra detail and examination of the characters and situation they were in.

Was there a sequel to ‘Debbie does Dallas’, sure it was called ‘Bill shafts Everton’

Nice to see the film themes still going strong, have a great Xmas fellow Blues.

Best movie: ‘Mulholland Drive’.

A little trivia on the theme of films, the actor that has appeared in most films is Christopher Lee with over 300 films.

That reminds me: ’nomination for best war movie - ‘Glory’.

Warning – there is a great deal of violence in it so don't watch it if you are averse to that type of movie. The paradox for me is that it is a wonderful story of love and redemption.

I have to say Denzel was tearing up the screen in ‘Training Day’, he was sensational not for the first time.

‘Devil in a Blue Dress’ is a very good underrated film.

Can I also throw in one on t he TV only, ‘The Fix’, about Tony Kay.

The answer might be the leading lady who, I believe, was never seen or heard of again and this a movie said to be financed by criminal elements and may, at the time, have been the biggest grossing movie ever.

‘The Jolson Story‘ had a sequel, ‘Jolson Sings Again’, which was another good film. I think both films were massive hits at the box office.

An Everton player was named after Jolson: Asa Hartford.

For a good laugh, although it also has a touch of sadness towards the end, then try ‘Kaiser’, a story about a Brazilian footballer who tricked his way into professional football and managed to have a very successful career without ever really kicking a ball.

Back to the Burnley game and other fixtures, I appreciate they were postponed for the right reasons in the current climate, even though I'm disappointed at not getting to see Everton today.

Now, this decision could play in our favour, but for me it raises the winter break debate. Listening to some of the language from some of the managers, is this now being used as a lever to seek a permanent and extended winter break being introduced in future?

I'm on the fence with that to be honest. Personally, I love the festive fixtures but I've also seen the benefits of it in Germany. It quite literally can turn a season around. That said, sometimes the wrong way after a promising start!!

UK and / or England? I could see a break from around the 20th December through to mid or late January being agreed. But the traditional Boxing Day and 3rd round FA Cup fixtures breaking that up as some sort of balance between traditionalists and those who have been calling for a winter break for many years.

One thing though, we would need to look at the structure of the league. Countries like Germany can facilitate it, but have less teams, therefore less fixtures as a start point.

I think Seve along with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods have been the most iconic golfers ever, and Seve and Nicklaus were responsible for the Ryder Cup being the event it is today.

Danny 299
I think to be able to incorporate a winter break we would have to reduce the league from 20 to 18. Maybe just have 1 team relegated and 1 team promoted each year after we get to 18 teams.

The problem then is that the league structure below the Premier League will also have to be revamped to accommodate the reduction in team numbers percolating down from the Premier League.

Films I can watch over and over: ‘Bladerunner', ‘Harrold and Maude', ‘Caddyshack' (what you eat shit for breakfast), ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. And another Jack Nicholson one: ‘Easy Rider'.

Hope you all had a good Christmas and hoping for a Blue New Year.

I am not too sure about a winter break, a lot of clubs in the past, have used free weekends to go to America and the likes to keep in with their sponsors, or in Evertons case, after having no cup game would call it a winter warmer exercise.

I have a feeling it will eventually come, but hopefully not at a cost of teams travelling half way across the world.

Anyway with no game today, anyone who has not seen the fix about Tony Kay starring Jason Isaacs, it is well worth a watch on YouTube, hopefully some other poster with better technology skills than myself, might be able to put the link on here, for people to watch.

I think you've mixed up your golf films mate. That line is from ‘Happy Gilmore’.

An absolute classic, I might add.

My other memory of the day was a half of bitter and a ham roll for 50p each. Good old days.

‘Seve’ was truly awe-inspiring, Brian, and was quite possibly the most natural golfer to have ever graced the game.

Not being a golfer myself, I like to listen to the people who know a lot more, so maybe the likes of Derek can start educating me about the golfing greats of yesteryear?

Need a serious review of European football as we will need to learn to live with the virus and variants. Too much football is crammed inside a 10-month calendar as it stands. Shorten the Champions League format (remove two legs, reduce to one tie on neutral venues) and scrap the Carabao Cup, awarding a further extra place in Europe for the team that finishes 8th.

A 3-week winter break from mid-December.

You've sent me down memory lane remembering those epics we had with Middlesbrough and Sheffield Wednesday in the late 80s. I'm not going to check, but I think I went to Hillsborough about 2 or 3 times in the space of a few weeks in January that season if I include the league fixture, which was New Years day and involved a very early and sleepy start to travel across the Snake Pass.

Brian H & Brian W; agree on both counts. It would need a reduction in teams to work effectively and also, that change would have to filter down the levels. But I've made my views on that a few times on other threads. Not something I think would be entertained as it would entail a massive re-structuring, but I'd explore that personally.

No films today. Off out to watch the football. Villa v Chelsea later, so I'll need to give the wife some backup here in west London!

The increasing impact the international fixture lists and breaks have on the domestic calendars and the players involved. Especially in this age of a most leagues being multi-national, therefore requiring players to often travel literally thousands of miles and back to represent their nation and clubs.

And also as a lot of those games are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

I'm of an age of remembering 3 games at Christmas and Easter and they were highly attended and played with smaller squads just fine until Johnny Foreigner managers came along to take the money and then call the shots!

Good – let's escape all this golfing guff and get back to football. You're right – The Fix is a pretty accurate recreation of the early 60s and the events surrounding the lifetime ban awarded to Tony Kay (who would otherwise have collected two medals at Wembley in 1966 instead of going to jail).

It also puts a lot of things in perspective when we see players arriving at the ground on public transport alongside the fans and £60 per week being talked of as a top wage – and not an agent to be seen anywhere!

I looked for a stream but could only find some dopey TV series on Netflix starring Jimmy Carr. Seems like you can watch the film on YouTube but, like you, I'd be pleased to learn of an alternative.

UTFT

Not related, but love this clip and great to hear the young blues belting this out at Stamford Bridge last week, banging the hoardings between the lower and upper stands.

Link

I have read so many of your posts and I must say I am always on the same page. However, I was confused when you put "The Jolson Story" as one of your favourite films. The movie came out in 1946 and I also saw it and enjoyed the music and the story. I was about seven at the time and did not realise the future implications of "Black Face".

Today it would be deemed as racist and an insult to the black population. Unfortunately in 1946 and for quite some time after it was considerd as acceptable because the Blacks in the USA were not allowed to even participate as equal citizens. They could not vote and were mainly portrayed in movies as buffoons.

From further investigation, it seems that Al Jolson himself was not racist. Being Jewish shortly after WW2, he could hardly afford to look down on any other race. I am also positive, Dave, that you yourself did not consider the movie as anything other than a fun Musical

The cancellation of the Burnley game seems to have relegated football posts to a minimum. Evertonians are obviosly suffering from a lack of football. I wish posts could somehow forget about their favourite golfer, singer, or Christmas present and get back to deciding why we need some good footballers to ease the suffering of frustrated supporters. I must sound a bit like the Grinch but I only care what others think about Everton and I don't really care if you prefer "Jam to Marmalade". However, I do care what any of the Abrahams think about football.

As a young boy, I never thought about the implications of white people blackening up and insulting black people or coloured people as they were called then.

Growing up, I actually idolised Mohammed Ali and before him Jack Johnson who never ever thought of himself as being lesser than other persons, whatever colour they might have been.

As for myself, colour never bothered me, there are some black people I would give my last penny to and trust them with my life, and other black people I wouldn't give the time of day to, but honestly John colour wouldn't have anything to do with the way I react to them.

Louis Armstrong obviously knew about how black people were treated as he grew up but he also knew how Jewish people were looked down upon when, as a young boy, he worked for a Jewish couple delivering groceries.

John, I also enjoy your posts and agree with most of them, maybe because we are round about the same age and, certainly, when it comes to The Blues, we live our lives round them, unfortunately most of the time.

Yes 100% agree. International fixtures and the travelling logistics for players certainly impacts preparation for the bread and butter which is the Premier League.

I know the 'meaningless friendlies' got scrapped in favour of the Nations League, but could we do without this competition? Of course we can, likewise with the qualifiers, is there a real need to play home and away, find a way of seeding games at home or away and reduce the number of teams in the qualifier stages.

Do Premier League footballers really need to conserve their energy and time to pit their wits against part-time footballers?

The footballing structure needs reviewing at every level, but governing bodies won't do anything.

When I read your response the first thig that came to my mind was, " I hope he doesn't think I was accusing him of being racist." In fact I smiled to myself when I wrote my initial response because I myself had watched the movie, enjoyed it and at the time just treated it as any young lad would in those days. The actual implications of "Blackface" only came about seventy plus years later. I grew up in Liverpool but now live in the Niagara area of Canada.

Just recently, a teacher at a local school was fired because at Haloween he showed up in "Blackface". He protested that he wasn't a racist and he may not have been. In this day and age, he should have been charged with "Stupidity" because it can offend a large portion of the population.

So please don't take any offense. None meant. I still hope all Evertonians on ToffeeWeb get back to posting about Everton. Something we can all boast about being experts on. Well at least until our next bit of TW wisdom is shot down in flames by someone who knows even more about Everton than I "think" I do.

Racism by today's standards would have had many of us, myself included, in the stocks for unwitting racist transgressions way back. The fact is though that by personal reflection most of us, but sadly only "most" as yet, have re-educated ourselves so that any inadvertent racist comment is no longer voiced.

Children don't see "race" and there's a big clue there for so-called adults.

I suppose it depends on the genre of music you enjoy. The Jolson Story was certainly a huge box office success and I think Larry Parkes was nominated for the best actor academy award, which definitely wouldn't happen today.

I was brought up on Count Basie and Coltrane but also on The Black and White Minstrels on TV on Saturday nights. Never crossed my mind for a moment that it might be considered racist and I'm sure it never occurred to my parents either.

Different eras mate.

I agree with you and hopefully most of us have grown up over the years – the problem with the current ‘cancel culture' is that, apologies notwithstanding, you're held to account for misdemeanours long after the event with no room for forgiveness.

Luckily this only seems to apply to silly teenagers who became sports personalities or celebs of some sort, otherwise we'd all be in the shit for things we thought, said or laughed at when we knew no better.

Very Bad Things - Cameron Diaz

One a dark drama, the other a dark comedy that don't get much recognition.

The Usual Suspects is a great movie, as is Shawshank Redemption and Spirited Away, a Japanese movie.

Also "Sexy Beast" - Ben Kingsley, what a legend...

To me, most people want to just get on with their lives, and are cynical about those in power who seek to divide and rule and exploit ordinary people, whether those ordinary people are black or white, and whether those in power are black or white.

Divide and rule, and conflict. Black v white, Catholic v Protestant, male v female, Christians v Muslims, and so on. Political manipulators are good at this, and ordinary people can be susceptible to it. The media thrives on it. Social media tends to get quickly polarised by it.

People have never changed. But what does change is the way people are organised and herded.

Stephen (325), Larry Parks who did a great job miming the Jolson songs later became a victim of the McCarthy purge against many people in Hollywood of being communists and left acting and made a fortune as a landscape Gardner.

I think racial discrimination will never end simply because you can’t stop people thinking the way they do although it helps that they don’t act upon their thoughts.

Great stories and a list of all the pubs, a great read, brought it all back. I realized Darren was right, I am still a Scottie girl.

https://losttribeofeverton.com/histories/a-legendary-night-on-scotland-road/

I’ve been re-reading that book recently and just picked it up off the floor and looked at that list of pubs in and around Scottie, Vauxhall Road and Greaty ( Great Homer St.), and all those pubs created the environment we lived in until a lot of that was broken up with the big upheaval in the sixties that took the “Townies “ out to Kirkby, Skemetsdale, Halewood and other places.

I’ve been in Norris Green much longer than I lived in Town but I’ve always done my serious drinking in Town, including your dads pub The Wedding House, many a good night in there, so Christine you’ll be a proud Scottie girl forever, a proud Blue Scottie girl!!

Mum and dad got a house in Netherton when I was about 4, and eventually a few years later, Nan got a corpie transfer back to Virgil Street, off Scotland Road..

Growing up, I spent more time with the rest of the family on Scottie as mum and dad worked. I moved when I got married, but I just never left!

The Wedding house was a great little pub, many characters, many laughs and some of the cons we fell for...

Growing up, I lived in Everton Brow, Chaucer Street just off St Anne Street, then back up the Brow to Shaw Street, then to Northrop Street. which led onto Great Homer Street and all in relatively the same area, more importantly none of them more than a 10-minute walk to Goodison Park and where I live in Norris Green is the same distance to Goodison.

Anyway, Christine, when you finally make it to The Bramley Moore pub after a great win by the Blues, we'll have a good natter about the “Olden days” before we get onto the team we love. See you then!!

Got married, moved to Kirkby. Thought our final move was when we went to Saskatchewan, Canada, in 1976 but moved from there in 1985 to Sussex, New Brunswick. Still there, no more moves planned.

Used to go to Shaw Street park a lot. It was the first time I had seen grass!!

Don is spot on with "Children don't see "race" and there's a big clue there for so-called adults."

I remember as a kid my uncle married a "half-caste" woman who became one of my favourite aunts but all the adults at the time were disgusted and commenting on it and I couldn't understand what the fuss was about.

I believe that all those families who grew up together over generations didn't need police or control because the communities policed themselves. They knew who the bad kids or "strange" kids were and just made sure they were watched out for.

Then as Dave said, the "New" towns were created and uncles and aunts who had lived in the same street for years were moved out and their new neighbours were strangers so suspicion and envy replaced the previous community spirit.

Gerard Gardens a very lively place along with Gerard Crescent and 2 minutes away from the Four Squares which was less than 2 minutes from Birchfield Street, and across the road from Birchfield Street in Islington was an ice cream parlour, remember them? Italian name which I've forgot at the moment where I spent many hours, Happy days!!

They used to have milk shakes there too.

Just remembered, I think the name of the man who ran the ice cream parlour was Alex.

Drank in the Westminster on Westminster Road, coz my mate served behind the bar. We often had stay-behinds there.

But mostly in The Standard on Thirlmere Road, and The Sefton, and Hare and Hounds in West Derby Village.

Moved from Liverpool in 1979, because of my job. Now live in Stonehaven, just South of Aberdeen, and don't get to Goodison very often.

I had a little laugh (don't be offended) when you said you were from Norris Green and your local was The Broadway!!! And the alternatives within Norris Green were?

One of the strangest anomalies within Liverpool was Norris Green, one of Britain's biggest council estates, had to my knowledge, one pub?

Clear it up for me Bill, Dave, Christine was it because you didn't like drinking? Haha!!

'To say that no public houses have been built within the boundaries of Norris Green is not entirely correct. Initially this may have been the case, as the Corporation wished to encourage temperance and abstinence. However, for may years there has been several licenced bars in the estate: The Conservative Club and the Broadway Club (both in Broadway), The Norgreen (Townsend Avenue - now closed) and the Green Peppers (Parthenon Drive).'

If you include Church clubs etc, there was a few options. I still think it would have benefited from a few proper pubs and may have saved the likes of Dave thousands in cab and bus fares!!

Billy #341, The Broadway Pub was outside the Norris Green Boundaries.

Great story, I have/had lots of family from the area and I remember people referring to the pub "The Rat" but I can't remember The Jamaica.

I have most probably walked past it a hundred times.

Billy (345), I still wouldn’t have got into the habit of drinking in Norris Green no matter how many pubs were there, all my mates were in town, in fact when we drank in the Clock, Salisbury St or The Goblin there might have ten of us in the company but only two or three lived in town the rest of us lived in Norris Green, Huyton, Page Moss, Kirkby and one from Birkenhead whose wife said she lived on The Wirral and she was born in The Bull Ring, didn’t half make the big time didn’t she !! Mrs Bleedin’ Bucket !!

I have had a drink in The Bridge, not sure Harold had it then but it was lively for a Sunday night.

I had many drinks in the Crown, once or twice in the Lobster and Oyster, Dog & Gun and all them on Carr Lane but sadly never Quo Vadis!!! I liked the Broadway Pub.

But Dave if your neighbourhood had loads of good pubs your mates would have came to you!!

I know what you mean though, I moved to Knotty Ash / Huyton but never felt a part of it even though it then had loads of good pubs. I went home to Old Swan – all of 1 mile away.

I read an article recently (written by a former Speke resident) which was of interest as I had relatives who lived there. It made the point that when Speke and other similar estates were built, the focus was on the housing element – with schools and churches next on the list. It suggested that pubs, shops and other amenities appeared much lower down the planner's priority list (or not even on it). I recall older cousins complaining how far they have to travel to shop and drink.

I also had cousins that lived on the Croxteth Estate. They only mentioned one pub (The Lobster) and were regular users of mobile shops until they moved out in the 1970s. Not sure if mobile shops were a Liverpool thing, but the only other place I have ever seen one was on Brookside!

Remember big Harold very well. His reputation preceded him. Do you remember Sadie who used to run the pub next to the Adelphi (Also a fearsome character) Then there was the asshole Eddie Palmer who met an appropriate end.

The joys of growing up in 50s/60s Liverpool.

Remember him having a very public stand-off which drew a crowd with be Abe Young who had the second-hand shop between Athol and Hankin Street.

Only one fella going to win that fight... But there was only one fella going to end up keeping the money.

Jay (355) Sadie worked in various pubs around the town, his bark was worse than his / her bite, he copped for a heavy smack one night off a customer he had barred out of The Dart next to The Dive where Wetherspoons is now on the Precinct and the tears started rolling with Sadie saying “ They’re even hittin’ woman now, he might have been a woman but he was no lady!! Definitely a very funny person though with a wicked sense of humour, one of the many dozen characters who livened up the city centre years ago.

In terms of pubs. I always recall my Grandad telling me there were limitations imposed on Liverpool council when they bought the land in Speke in terms of how many pubs they could build.

And now, even though the area has benefited from investment, many of the traditional pubs I remember from childhood are gone. The Dove and Olive, the Fox and my all time favourite, the Pegasus (the Peg). My Dad's local. I'll never forget those characters even though I had to sit on the wall outside with a bottle of pop and bag of crisps waiting for him. I remember there being a terrible one near the Parade shops; the Ponderosa?

Freddie the Ferret (he kept Ferrets). Billy the Bin (he was a binman). Careful Kevin (he was tight and kept his pockets closed). Wonderful characters.

No I go back and I can stay in the Hampton Inn, the Holiday Inn or the Crowne Plaza. Or Premier Inn if I'm on a budget! But then there's always family!!

Definitely a council estate island on the far south of the city, so slightly different from Norris Green in my opinion, which was built more on the inner ring and the north of the city.

But similar in some ways. My experience of Norris Green was mostly passing through it when living at my Aunties on Middle Way in Croxteth for a while. And in his later life, my Grandad lived on Arkles Lane, so we often went to the shops on Norris Green Broadway. The areas where kind of similar in design but a bit different. North and south if that makes sense to those who understand??

I took and passed my driving test in Norris Green first time around by the way!

Funny but I can still hear the difference between North and South Liverpool, never mind Birkenhead! The differences are subtle and even within areas like Crosby and Litherland... or Speke and Aigburth. Anyone else notice, or is it just too many Guinnesses?

Then there is the other lot across the park, never could understand them, different breed.

We have had to endure the bitterness of the past 27 seasons under the guardianship of con-men and buffoons and still they actually hate us! Which begs the question: Why? Two tribes go to war?

They have had enough success to last a million lifetimes but still they call us Bitter Blues! If we are bitter, it's because of how we are run and how we have been used to feather others' nests.

But, like a fighter taking the punches, we have been unable to fight back, they can't and never will be able to deliver a knock-out blow and they know it. Because they can't kill our dream, they know they are still second class and the palace is being built. It's called envy. It's called fear, because we are coming for them.

It's impossible for us to even think about rising again as a football force when our owner still gives Bill Kenwright the time of day. Tragic but true.

Big H (Harold Hughes) ran the bridge pub in Nogsy for a time in the '90s. He played for my dad's Sunday league team (Hermitage) in the '70s. I have pics of the great Dixie Dean himself as guest of honour at the pub with my dad, Major Jim Murray – no army connection, just his well-known nickname.

Dixie said he could reach up and head the massive light bulb in the Hermitage Lounge. As a kid, you remember these conversations lol. This was before he was wheelchair-bound of course.

I was born just off Scottie Road and we moved to Kirkby when I was 3.. but I consider myself a true scouser.

All the above-mentioned pubs I ended up playing most of them as a singer in various bands and duos.

I now live in Perth, Australia – been here 20 years and was shocked the last couple of times I came back to see many of the clubs and pubs closed down and the once-thriving music scenes reduced to mostly open mike nights.

My daily read of ToffeeWeb keeps me entertained informed and brings back many memories of my childhood and the culture of the scouse way... so thanks to you all.

There were no black kids in the area when I was a lad (born 1959) but around the corner on Prescot Road there were a couple of "chinkies" (back in that day, it meant a fish and chip shop rather than anything racist) and a bit later on an Indian newspaper shop.

I remember thinking how exotic and interesting they looked, which probably sowed the seeds to me moving to SouthEast Asia.

Regarding Norris Green pubs, when I visited a mate in that area we always went to drink in The Jolly Miller along Queens Drive if it was daytime, or the Conservative Club (spit!) of an evening.

Most of my early drinking years were spent in The Moonstone in The Precinct where you could get in underage and where the aforementioned mate used to play with his band.

Don't get back often enough these days and especially now thanks to that ne'er do well (no, not Dowell) cricket team.

All almost gone now as the local accent has morphed into the almost comic parody of its self you hear all over now... yes, you, John Bishop, you RS twat.

Accents used to change slowly if at all... 7miles away from the old 'centre of Liverpool' it was (and still is up to a point) a different linguistic world... (Wools and Welsh).

But with today's mass communication, even the Queen is not immune to it, listen to the 50s version and now... and the 40s version is even worse.

Not just here, 50 years ago, there was no such accent as the Corri- Manc-Oasis-Citeh whine you have now... it was all variations of T'ellins wool fading into ee by gum rolled 'Rs' of pure David Lloyd proper Lancashire.

I hope somebody had the foresight to record it all before it went. But I doubt it, more's the pity... too late now.

Mark @363, you'll start me on my cultural rant about our City. When I lived in Woolton, I could walk 100 yards from my house in L25, cross the road (L26) and be in Halewood.

Halewood, Huyton, Kirkby, Bootle, Crosby; all Liverpool to me and no invisible council boundary or change in the colour of wheelie bins will change that view. Embrace the Greater Liverpool notion; the very independent London Boroughs and independent towns of Greater Manchester have done it to good effect over the years.

And yes Christine, we are coming for them.

Your mention of the Moonstone in St John's Precinct reminded me of my misspent youth drinking in the Sportsman – also in the Precinct, nearer to the Royal Court. Anyone else remember that place with the upside-down racing car hanging from the ceiling as you went in?

I remember they charged you a nominal fee on entry so that it could be classed as a club and serve till later. Some good up-and-coming bands used to appear there. Everton were also a force then. Ah, memories!

Years ago you would have to field the second string and like it or lump it. It seems now an injury crisis means you can get games called off.

How many more games are we going to get cancelled through injury or Covid in the coming weeks?

I can well foresee another June finish to the season, which will be an absolute disaster in a year of a ridiculous winter World Cup.

What’s the point of having a squad if you don’t use it?

Not a lot of people know this but that fella Jesus didn't perform any miracles at all. He just had a sponge. And a bucket of wine.

I grew up in an era when you were sick if you actually were sick, now you've got a test (not always a reliable one either) dictating whether or not you have to sit at home in a bubble for a week, even if you are fighting fit physically. Can you imagine this during the years when men were needed on the frontline?

Fit fella gets a positive test, shows no symptoms at all, but has to sit on his arse and do nothing for over a week? It's become farcical frankly and the sooner some new way of "existing" is found, the better.

Correct me if I'm wrong they aren't using public transport, they arent standing in Aldi or Lidl in queues with all walks of society two yards behind them and basically in this era, have agents practically wiping their backsides for them.

Yet there's so many coming down with Covid?

Clearly they aren't living up to the restrictions then eh?

1. Clubs using the current situation to cherry pick when they play if they suffer injuries. Ourselves included for the sake of impartiality. Everyone has a squad; if the threshold is genuinely broken then fine, but don't manipulate the system and use your squad.

2. Calling for a winter break to be introduced. We've discussed earlier and previously on here, but after this season, that's where I think this is going.

Apparently there is a piece in the Athletic. I worry that unless external consultants are brought in then BPB et al will fiddle the findings to point the finger elsewhere. Starting with Koeman, it’s easy to forget he had Lukaku sold from under him yet no replacement to this day has ever been forthcoming. But BPB brought in Rooney on astronomical wages. This kind of unprofessional meddling has to be a main topic surely as this was a catalyst for the overspending debacle (lack of long term planning).

What did Howe say ? I cant find it.

I worry Newcastle will have more say in the grand scheme of things than they used to

Asked if he expects the game with Everton to go ahead, Howe later said: "I don't know. We'll see what the situation is with the players that we have."

Newcastle boss Eddie Howe said his side are "dangerously close" to not being able to field a team for their Premier League game at Everton on 30 December.

"These are difficult moments for us. I believe it's 13 plus a goalkeeper [to have enough players for a game]. We're going to be dangerously close to that number."

And to your point about potential favouritism, our own Pat Nevin in the same report:

"Eddie Howe needs time to get these players back and also to bring in other players."

In case I'm being overly biased and paranoid, here's the link:

Link

But didn't the city centre clearances of the 50s confuse the issue. I remember the Jackie And Bridie song.

'Don't want to go to Kirkby, Skelmersdale or Speke.
Don't want to go from all I know in Back Buchanan Street'.

We are all mongrels really.

Truly bizarre, and the more so in that the review is quoted as “Requested by Moshiri and implemented with the help of the board, the strategic review is set to go right through every aspect of the football side of the club."

You really couldn't make it up with these clowns in charge.

I don't think there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with having a strategic review of an organisation. Organisations I worked for had a rolling 3-year strategic planning / review process: setting a strategic plan for the next 3 years; and reviewing annually (and, if necessary, updating it), given the rate of change in the external environment.

And occasionally you need to step back from a rolling strategic plan and make a root-and-branch review of your strategic planning processes. Asking questions about how we do strategic planning, including who we involve in that. I think many probably feel that Moshiri might need external guidance and support in applying whatever strategic planning insights he has from previous organisations to a football context.

My concern would be if Everton weren't regularly reviewing their strategic plan. Assuming they have a strategic plan!

First ever proper session was in another now-defunct establishment, the Irish Club on Derby Road. The arl fella's lot are the blue half of the family and hail from Bootle way.

Mum is a red and her family are still mainly congregated around Broad Green. Me, Dad and my elder brother Ashley were literally the only non-reds in the street!

Seems "Blue" Eddie only want to play when he is good and ready.

The rhyme was unintentional

Christine: I agree, I’ve always noticed a clear difference in the accents to the North and South of the city. One is not superior to the other, they just differ slightly.

Don and several others: a review? Sounds more like the self-styled “executive team” getting ready to mark their own homework. I feel another article coming on….

A lot of my family gatherings were traditionally held at the Metal Box, including the most recent, a 60th wedding anniversary last month. The factory has gone, but the Social Club is still there!

I was Christened in St Christopher's, it was where my parents were married and my son's first nursery school before he went to Much Woolton.

I was driving my car before and there was a Coldplay concert on the radio. “Fix you” came on, and being a sad/mad blue, my thoughts instantly went to Bill Kenwright (how sad, I know) because I always feel he helped break Everton.

It’s an upbeat song for me though, and the lyrics got me thinking about the future, and although it’s going to be a massive, massive (I could write that word a thousand times) wrench leaving Goodison, maybe then, once Kenwright leaves us, we might just begin to be fixed🤞

Then again all the closeness of knowing your neighbours even streets away went with that regeneration, now it is entirely different, I got off the bus too early a couple of years ago, going to a funeral at Our Lady’s Eldon St. and asking my way to the church no one had a clue where it was, they were all strange to the area,until I bumped into an old mate who was born around there and he walked me down to the church.

Incidently the mate who I used to go see play is still gigging around Liverpool in a band called Swingology.

As you say it is hard for people today to realize what conditions that some people had to endure before and after the war. My wife's family lived in Queen Anne Place in the 4 Squares before they were moved to Croxteth with the redevelopment around that area. She reads some of the comments on here and when someone mentioned about an Italian family she said there was an italian family on the same landing that they lived on The Muscatellis. ( apologies if I spelt it wrong ) she said they had 5 boys and 2 girls, and along with other families they struggled after the war but at the same time everyone helped each other, your door was always open and the kids could leave their toys anywhere and new they would be returned.

My Dad's best mate and my Godfather (god bless him), Vinnie Morrison lived on Western Avenue. His dad (Paddy) was as ferocious as their Staffordshire Bull Terrier, who also terrified me. He allegedly was part of the 1916 uprising in Dublin and I'll never forget his other son, Vinnie's brother telling me in the Peg the week before I joined the Army that I was okay, but he hated the British Army!!

I still have cousins and Aunties dotted around the area. My mum (bless her soul) grew up mostly in the Prefabs, which she spoke of fondly. When we came back from Germany, she eventually settled on School Way before moving to the new houses on Colworth Road (Dymchurch estate), where she sadly passed away, almost on the site where she had grown up.

Dunlops. Now there's a memory. Home on leave but no ticket and parental responsibilities. That's where I watched the 1995 FA Cup Final with my best mate Dave (god bless him too), my youngest brother (only 5 at the time) and my son (aged 5 months). So technically my son has witnessed Everton win something, but he needs to (and will) see and remember it.

Explaining to my grandson how we used to make the fire on a cold winters morning is another story, part of which is Sonny saying “ You used to have a fire in the house? a real fire? They don’t the half of it.

Coal fires, come home to a real fire, buy a home in Wales. Welsh Nationalists... but a coal fire heated the water, warmed the room. I miss them but not clearing out the ashes or putting a newspaper and poker in front of it to draw air in, how dangerous was that?

What about the coalmen having to carry those hundredweight bags of coal up them stairs as well? Yes remember them newspapers in front of the fire, blowers, to get the fire roaring.

Oh and Christine, talking of those black shawls, I've had my shawl on this afternoon gabbing away. I'll be the talk of the washhouse, especially if that bleedin' (excuse the French, Christine) Brian Williams from Birkenhead reads these posts!!

Then there would be the fisty cuffs during and after the card schools, dice and toss schools or during the endless games of football with the bizzies doing their visits every so often, making them quick and glad to be out of it and letting the residents get on with it.

Those boys could graft.

I always thought, although the squares were posh compared to our side of the Brow we were of a much better level.

Might be 6 in a bedroom, but our mice, rats and certainly the bed bugs were far better fed and of a more sophisticated demeanour.

When they did start shipping us out we were one of the few lucky lot in that we just moved over the Brow to Salisbury Street - an underarm stone's throw from the Clock!

The only disastrous downside was that it was in SFX parish! Worse than being an RS

You reminded me of a time I was working in Saudi and travelling back to Liverpool for Christmas, with a stopover in Paris to meet up with some old uni friends.

They had just moved from a luxurious central-heated apartment in the centre to a cottage in a village on the outskirts, made famous by the invention of Bernais Sauce, I was told.

Anyway, they had a coal fire and, until I turned up, had got it going by spraying paraffin on the coal and standing well back when lighting it! I showed them the knotted newspapers under the coal trick, and the poker and newspaper in front to create the draught.

A lot safer than the way they'd been doing it.

I don't think I know Vinnie but I certainly remember Paddy. Now there was a character! He was an old man by the time I used to see him out and about. You'd see him walking along Western Avenue or occasionally in St Christopher's Club.

He was a lovely old guy but somehow you knew even at his age you would not want to cross him. He knew I was the grandson of a woman from Athlone so I was always in his good books!

I don't know if you knew my dad, Charlie O'Neill, as he never really lived there. That side of the family grew up in the Garston Tennements before my Grandad moved to Hale Road.

We'll go for that pint in what ever non-hotel based pubs still exist in Speke!! Then there's always the Childe of Hale.

Just some useless information for you!!