Determined derby display proves results aren’t everything

Why were they not at their best? The old adage is that you play as well as you are allowed to play! Bournemouth clearly were not up for the fight at Anfield last week and they allowed the RS to play their game, their way.

On Saturday, the Blues got in their faces and simply did not let them play how they would envisage!

Good on you Blues, you gave them something to think about and they fell short.

Your comment should read, "Of course, Liverpool were not allowed to be at their best".

We must understand, if it doesn't go well, that this happens and even our best teams of the past have struggled at times. What we have now is potential and, as supporters, we must nurture that with patience.

Even though it's still early days, and we've yet to win, only three sides have a better goals against tally. We have a stronger, much better balanced, squad and cover in most positions.

Once we get the Arsenal game out of the way and the team is better bedded in I'm confident we can start picking up points, despite the continuing weakness up front.

There'll be downers along the way but the early signs are good.

Many pundits etc, including a majority of the usually objective Athletic journalists, have us as one of the relegation favourites but it's lazy journalism/comments based on what they saw last season.

Three things saved us last season:

i) the fantastic efforts of the fans in getting the side over the line;
ii) Lampard realising his error in selecting Gomes v Palace and replacing him with Dele whose brilliant 45 min cameo changed the game; and
iii) the protester who chained himself to the goalpost v Newcastle and we went on to score the winner in the 98th minute!

The one constant is the weak board whose incompetence, over a number of years, led to the shambolic season we all had to endure. All of them are still in situ!!

Me too, not just about the performances but with the injection of some real quality young players, blending in with tough excellent experienced professionals. It's this blend that is exciting me, it seems balanced and thriving. This time it feels like the green shoots cannot be stopped.

All the while, sitting there in the corner of the room is the results grim reaper. Not just for us but for every team. The results reaper is always there lurking in the shadows of the managers office, waiting for his hour. Optimism, green shoots, renewed hope count for nothing if the wins don't come.

So whilst the signs are very, very good, the focus needs to continue. Results are needed to keep the dark-cloaked forces far away.

The three points for a win becomes a big problem if all you ever do is draw. Even a club that is inconsistent but wins one game in three and snatches some draws along the way will acquire more points than a team that only draws.

The good news is that most of us would agree that the squad has been improved overall and there is good reason to believe that performances on the field will improve as players bed in.

We don't even need an out-and-out goalscorer (but we do need at least some pretty consistent contributors to the tally) and we can get enough points through a version of KITAP1. However, we really do need key players to stay fit, good chances to be converted more often than they are squandered, and a decent percentage of the draws to become wins instead.

As much as I would like to see us back to the Top Half of the Table quickly, we still have a lot of high-paid misfits on our books (Keane, Rondon, Dele, JPM, Gomes, Mina). Not until they are fully off our hands, either through sale or expiry of our contracts, can we really sort our books out and shoot for more dramatic acquisitions and improvement.

Meanwhile, we finally have a team that we can be proud of again. So, let's be patient for the rest of the season and enjoy the growth of Onana, Patterson, Mykolenko, Garner, Gordon and McNeil as well as the reincarnation of Iwobi! Fingers crossed for a quick recovery for Godfrey too so that he can revert back to his dynamic self shown during his first season with us.

I'll be happy if we finish anywhere between 10th and 14th by the end of the season.

But I'm also seeing players much more comfortable with a football. They want the ball rather than the hot potato they've chucked around the pitch in recent seasons.

I'm not getting carried away, but I'm more positive than I have been previously and those who know me will know that's saying something.

Take me to Wembley Everton and Frank can do his corner flag dance for Everton and his dad!!

We are still 3 points worse off than last season.

Last season we took 3 points from the next 6 fixtures scoring 6 and conceding 16. If we only have 7 points after 12 games we are in trouble both in terms of improving against last year and being stick in the bottom 3. Look out for WC break. Based on last year - more than 12 points are needed to show an improvement in results.

But the whole mood music has changed.

I'd rather fluff the opening games and then kick on, which we will now surely do.

The Rich 6 are already moving into their inevitable positions. Otherwise its all much of a muchness. We'll be fine

As the headline says it was determined and energetic from Everton, and the obvious ploy from Liverpool was the counter attack, and that nearly paid off.

I like the set up now from Lampard 4-3-3, and the new centre back pairing. This formation also gives us the opportunity to counter attack at pace. We also have a stronger bench, which will be useful in case of injuries.

Although, we haven't got too many points on the board and a reflection of improvement in the squad will be getting something from the Arsenal game on Sunday. We know how difficult that can be given our past experiences. Still onwards and upwards, let's hope it's not too long before we get a league win.

Our 2 young fullbacks can defend and attack and now that Patterson is getting a regular game after his injury you can see the improvement. Would be interesting to see who did push through those transfers, although Benitez was the manager by not picking either then they weren't bought on his recommendation. My only concern for this team is who will score the goals, its nice that both Gordon and Gray have got off the mark but while Maupay works hard he has to be more clinical than he has been so far in his career. After spending most of last season on the treatment table DCL is again battling back after another set back, and even when fit it will take 3 or 4 games to get match fit. Yes its good to see us improving game on game and the new signings will I think make a huge difference but goals win games and we have to find a way of scoring more goals as all the possession in the world counts for nothing if you don't put the ball in the net.

But, we need to start picking wins starting from the next game. It is no use saying - oh, it is Arsenal away and we always lose there. Every game is winnable if Lampard is able to instil the right mentality among the players. Every game is tough - there are no gimmes in this league. Our next 6 games look like this:

Arsenal (A)

West Ham (H)

Southampton (A)

Man United (H)

Spurs (A)

Newcastle (A)

That us one tough run of fixtures, and it won't get much easier thereafter. So, every game is a must win - there is not 1 game that we can afford to either relax or give up. Opponents should fear playing us.

I agree 100% with Tony (4) - "So whilst the signs are very, very good, the focus needs to continue. Results are needed to keep the dark-cloaked forces far away." Couldn't have put it any better.

Now I can see the tide changing and Frank has got better players in and can start attacking more knowing he has a stronger defence and a much better midfield to defend and attack with and a stronger bench to make the replacements with.

Sooner or later we will rectify the absence of strikers and add to Dominic and Maupay and then I think we can all go to the games and start and enjoy them instead of fretting, worrying and making a mess of our finger nails, early days with Lampard and Thelwell but they seem to be clearing those dark clouds and bringing clear Blue ones in, onwards and upwards Blues, it might be time to start remembering the words to
“ We shall not be moved”

I think we'll see more of Gray getting into goalscoring positions and Maupay? I thought he played well and put down the misses to being to anxious. He'll be playing in a good team and he's working with a manager who knows all about goalscoring, so I'm hopeful that he'll start bagging some of the chances he missed on Saturday. Otherwise he played well.

Rome wasn't built in a day and last season was a rude awakening to all of us loyal fans that no team has a right to stay in the Prem.

Okay some will say (especially RS fans) that they weren't at their best against the Blues but I believe they played as well as they could against a team that surprised them.

Sometimes they get wins against teams like Bournemouth when everything they touch goes in and sometimes lucky last minute wins like the Barcodes game.

That could have been us on Saturday but it would have been an injustice.

We will lose some games this season but I predict we will win a lot more than last season.

The Gunners game will be a stiff test but if they go in with the same spirit as the Derby match then they will give a good account of themselves and get something out of it.

All good teams have spirit and work ethic and if we go in with anything less than we did against the shite we'll be up against it so to quote an old but seemingly forgotten cliche; we have to leave it all on the pitch.

Then I think we stand a good chance of surprising a few a people. The other thing is not giving these teams too much respect. They're just another football team and we have to get our heads over that.

We need one or more of our midfielders to be playing more through balls to the forwards. Its not obvious if any of them have that in their skill set but that is where the coaches can earn their wages.

With DCL injured too often and Maupay is not really noted to be a prolific goal scorer ( he does however create chances for others to his credit ) as in Saturdays game.

Nevertheless its pretty obvious where our achilles heel is.

I'm glad that, despite your clear and obvious optimism, you planted your feet firmly on the ground in your last paragraph. You are right, of course: if we are to sustain this improvement, we need to see it reflected by accumulated points and a climb up the table.

I loved the comments about the fans in the Upper Bullens. I don't have a season ticket as I only get "home" for half the games. That means I end up sitting in different parts of the ground and I have noticed an incredible transformation everywhere I have sat since Rafa left.

I'm in awe of these young Evertonians. They have never seen a successful Everton team in their lives, but you will not see their level of passion at any other club in the country. Impossible not to join in.

Suppose we get battered by Arsenal next game 5-0, oh that's okay because we really tried and put a lot of effort and commitment in, so we can accept the result because we tried.

Then we get battered by West Ham, that's okay too because we put a lot of effort into that one as well and results, well they don't matter do they, even if by Christmas we are firmly planted at the bottom of the table, that's okay because we aren't in a results-based game, are we?

Me, I would rather stink the place out with boring draws and wins if it means we don't have to go through what we did last season.

Results don't matter? Yes, they do 100%.

Totally Brian Harrison; Goodison Gang & Spirit of the blues are unique and create a fantastic atmosphere. Too many teams, ourselves included over the years just copy. They can't be copied; they are Everton.

On Dave's last note, I mentioned that in my end-of-season write-up. It really struck me how many young fans there were home and away, generating passion and atmosphere. A gang of lads above me at Stamford Bridge banging on the panels to Goodison Gang.

The Crystal Palace fans I sat with on that night in total awe of Goodison as Spirit of the Blues rang out for what seemed like a never-ending rendition. Second to none.

On the team, yes, still work to do, but the wins and points are coming. The management team deserve credit. Seemingly by stealth and quietly under the radar, they have transformed the squad.

I looked at our defence on Saturday. We have 3 centre backs out injured, who would have been starters last season and are decent defenders. Even if fit right now, I think Mina, Godfrey and Holgate are struggling to replace any of Saturday's back 4. Gueye, Obana and the transformed Iwobi across a midfield 3. Different team from this time last season.

Yes, you are right: we don't want to fall into our old trap of being glorious failures so your point will be very valid. If, however, we turn up at Arsenal and they know they have been in a game and if we win or draw we will know this new mentality is here to stay.

I know it's all 'ifs' but we have to start somewhere and we know all them weeks failing to replace Richarlison would cost us potentially 15 points. Maupay may help with that and then if Calvert-Lewin stays fit.

I'm Frank's biggest fan and I've been banging his drum on here for months. The last couple of games have seen us move from a back 5 to a 4-3-3 and we've benefited from it immensely.

The VAR has robbed us in the last 2 games and, as far as I'm concerned, another 2 points. But, and this is my worry, the lack of goals is a big concern but at least we're creating chances, so our luck has to change soon… doesn't it?

If it doesn't, it's going to be more of the same from last season. That said, I can't see any side giving us a hiding the way we're setting up now. The optimist in me can see he's building something here, the Evertonian in me is saying was the derby display another false dawn.

Haven't felt this optimistic for a while but, until the goals start flowing and we rack up a few wins, I'll reserve judgement.

Stu #14 - Consistently 40-45% of results are the same as the previous season. Even for Everton it has been 34%, 37%, 42% (Carlo), 37% the same as the previous season.

Whatever the case though, I'd compare our opening games (regardless of who we're playing) to the period last season when we were without Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison.

In those games, we were hopeless. Rondon and others like Gomes were total passengers. Iwobi looked shot. Coleman couldn't run. The team capitulated.

In the games just gone, we were similarly understrength but no passengers, good work rate, and we were competing. We have also picked up points where last season it would have been defeats.

The main issue this season, aside from lack of striker, is 3 / 5 man defence which wasn't working.

The switch to 4-3-3 and the recruitment means we're in good shape. Good team spirit, quality in depth and one or two really good players emerging from the mire, like Iwobi and Patterson.

Credit goes to the current regime for a well executed recruitment drive in the summer. I believe the progress we have made is below the radar of the national media at present. That is a good thing, I think. We may surprise a few teams in the coming weeks.

To see us breaking at pace and in numbers on Saturday was very satisfying. No looking round for the easy back pass, as in previous seasons, getting the ball forward quickly, looking to put pressure on their defence

They certainly weren't comfortable with it, and subbed their two fullbacks.
We were robbed of course by two disgraceful decisions, aided and abetted by the VAR, but I expect that now.

If we can maintain the same formation, mindset and intensity, I'm confident not many teams will relish playing us this season.

With a little luck and a kindly VAR, I do believe that we can put one over them. I will settle for a draw but banking on a win. A loss will mean starting over again.

We have the momentum, we have the players, we have the manager and the backroom staff and what's more we have the fans who will settle for NSNO. COYBs.

Also we have only ever won League Titles and Cups with an English manager! Let's hope Frank can add to that list.

Or at least not get thumped and humiliated!

I get it's a results business, especially at this level, but I always used to say to the teams I coached, focus on performances and the results will come.

It changes as the season goes on, especially at the business end, buy I think I can see what Frank is trying to do. Get the performances and team playing. Points are on the way.

Not much to disagree with there, but Lady Luck has not been our friend very much for this past decade or more. So maybe it's time for her to belatedly take a fond look at her poor, forgotten step-child? :)

You are thinking about our defense and midfield from last season. Yes, those players could have spinelessly gone that route under pressure. But this far, I see no hint at all of defeatism in our team.

Six games, two defeats, four draws. Did anyone get close to slaughtering us so far?

With a new surfeit of midfielders, he should have no reason to return to his beloved 'muddle five' defenders although I wouldn't bet that the lesson has been learned. But we can only hope!

Frank has improved the team with little money, got rid of our pedestrian midfield, and looking at the team on Saturday, it's the first time, we had a balanced team.

It was Maupay's first game, missed a good chance, but ran his socks off, and Calvert-Lewin back training is a huge boost as well. We haven't won yet, but we're on the up, and considering we played the first handful of games with no striker. NSNO

The issue comes when fans get fed up with such crap and break rank demanding a proper competing footy club… then the entire edifice crumbles like a house of cards.

Too early for judgement but we're muddling along as lower-ranking stiffs quite nicely at the moment with signs we could avoid the drop.

Considering what Frank and his team have inherited, and because of unrestrained profligacy in the past, resulting in FFP dictating limitations in spending, he has and his team with Kevin Thelwell used what was available very well.

Moshiri has come under criticism, unfairly in my opinion, while it is rumoured he has insisted on, or backed some foolish buys, I think it goes a lot deeper than that and most of us know where and who the real culprit is and he's still here. If I was Moshiri I would be fuming seeing how my dosh has been squandered like Joe the Fatboy in the Tuck Shop.

"Rule one with derbies: If you can't win it – don't lose it."

Not the daftest thing you ever heard.

But sadly a more positive style of play does not guarantee results, there are good teams with better players out there, what we have now is a team that can compete, the first step on the ladder of a team that can win.

We are in the results business, not just the entertainment business. But what we now have is a team that has sufficient desire and skill, playing in a team with the ethos of attacking play.

It brought joy to my heart to watch the game on Saturday, and we will win far more games than lose in the coming season playing this way.

Importantly and worth noting, teams think Everton are an easy touch and set up accordingly with a more attacking intent leaving them more open to our attacking style of play. Respect from the opposition means lesser teams will park the bus... and not leave the back door open!

So, where are we? You're right in the fact of getting the attitude, style and belief are the foundations we can now build on, so missing since Martinez, who failed to do so on Moyes's defensive legacy.

We still need to improve defensively but the spine is there, no longer are we missing critical pieces of our team photo. Now we can build, now we can compete, now, at last, we look like winning.

Martin (#46), within your denigration of a fellow Toffee, to me you've summed up what we aspire to.

I respect you both.

A new Everton we can finally get on board with

And aside from Lampard's success in keeping us up, it strikes me as illogical that in the midst of our financial issues, Moshiri would be eager to swallow the last 2 years of a 2½-year contract. He may not be the world's best owner, but he has never struck me as a Looney Tune.

In the comments (and on Twitter) the Esk cites "well placed sources" and leaves it at that.

I'd be surprised if he just plucked the claim out of left field. But in addition to the financial reasoning you mention, even though Moshiri was mostly AWOL over the second half of the season, I can't imagine he wasn't fully aware of the emotional connection developing between Lampard and the fanbase.

He'd be – to use your phrase – a total "Looney Tune" to try and sever that bond, under the circumstances.

Second, it's long been apparent to me that in six years Moshiri has established himself as a world-wide imbecile when it comes to football decisions.

To me this means that Frank and Kevin in partnership are swimming against the Moshiri tide even as we seek this weekend, against Arsenal on their turf, to achieve one point per game played.

Yes, the ESK piece stated Moshiri thankfully supported his own hitherto inept board/chairman in standing by Lampard lately, but what are we to think of the future with such a ramshackle feckless bunch of no-marks owning and running OUR club?

I aim for success. In the short term, that can be Europe and a trophy.

Longer term we are back challenging for bigger and better things.

Aim high, Barry. It's what we should be doing. Not shooting low to then get frustrated with mediocrity.

Everton; 9 times League Champions. Despite a 35-year gap, still, for now, 4th in that table. That's our benchmark.

Results are ultimately what any team is judged on. But over time. Kendall would have been long gone before he had the chance to get his team and act together if short term results are the measure.
As someone on the fence with Lampard, I am fed up with the revolving door and want to give this time. Are we building something? That's the question.

I'm mid air somewhere over the Atlantic right now. But planning my day out at the Emirates on Sunday.

See you all there to bring the points home. Be that in person, in spirit (of the blues), from near, or from afar.

My own feelings are that Moshiri was too busy trying to sell the club this summer but, once due-diligence was performed, he realised that this was going to be impossible, unless he was prepared to lose a lot of money.

If Moshiri wants to get the club to start earning him money, well do a proper in-house look at how that can improve. Think he's given up on that score until we move into the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

So to hear that he was contemplating sacking Lampard doesn't surprise me in the least, he has fired a few whose team finished a lot higher than Lampard's did last season.

I also wouldn't rule out him sacking Lampard if we are in or very close to the relegation zone, by the time the players depart for the World Cup. This would be the ideal time as we will have every few going to the World Cup, so it would give the new manager a few weeks to work with the squad before the season resumes.

I really hope that Everton are clear of the relegation zone come the World Cup and moving in the right direction which I think they will be. Changing managers every 18 months or less has got us into this mess.

Also, let's remember Moshiri no longer has the financial backing of Usmanov, or why else would he be looking for investors. Remember with business money is king and if the threat of relegation looms large again I am sure Moshiri won't hesitate to remove Lampard.

Lampard kept his job during the relegation dogfight because both Kenwright & Co and Moshiri needed a scapegoat if Everton got relegated. Sacking Lampard before that, with Everton's fan support on the street, would have brought down almighty pressure on both. It was probably considered, but was too much of a hot potato.

Results are everything. In the derby, Everton looked as if they could have got a result and should have won the game. I don't buy into Liverpool not being at their best either. Just punditry, not fact.

Against Arsenal, following on that performance, I expect Everton to put in a similar performance at the Emirates and this time win. I think Arsenal have benefited a lot from the early start in August and the exceptionally dry weather. But that has now turned.

Moshiri has always been susceptible to fan pressure.

Moshiri shared a friendship with Kenwright over many years and was enticed into buying Everton by his friend, so maybe his football knowledge has been learned from Bill and would explain its depth… or lack of it.

So if you think about it there is a glaring time space after the World Cup and before the January transfer window to make changes if necessary. A few clubs will do it.

Hopefully by then we will have progressed points wise, the last thing we need is more managerial upheaval. Getting Calvert-Lewin fit, and keeping him fit, will make life easier. From what I've see so far , with a proven striker we are looking like a top 8 team minimum.

Lampard has persuaded players to sign for Everton because of who he is, he has only just started to assemble his own squad. There's a feel-good factor developing between the team and fans, things are starting to look better, a young dynamic team in the making.

Lampard was saddled with one of the worst midfields I've seen at Everton last season. Calvert-Lewin was constantly injured as he has been this season. Let's not panic – the season is only 6 games old, if we carry on playing like we did on Saturday, we'll be fine.

Abramovich got away with it as I guess he employed people in the background who knew how to run a business and football club. The manager became a figurehead.

Moshiri tried the same bankroll methodology but gave keys to the Kingdom to Bill and made him custodian.

I hope he's learned a lesson and it sticks. From someone who was a bit undecided on Lampard, but I like what I'm seeing, and just want us to see something through.

i Was very surprised by Tuchel's Sacking. But I had noticed him being a bit preoccupied in recent interviews. Obviously he was not confident of support within the club.

Frank's strength is that he does have the backing of the supporters and was selected by them. It is based on the recognition that new ways have to be tried and a tolerance that they may work or not.

Both Kenwright and Moshiri know that, given Everton's recent close shaves, there would be little tolerance of an attempt to change this up-and-coming manager.

Everton are bumping along at a consistent level of competence. Players getting settled in and more familiar with what is required due to consistent template training week after week, stands a chance of taking Everton to a higher level.

I wish I could reply in kind but I long learned to scan past your sloth-like musings as I would any village idiot.