I posted something similar in the matchday thread on Saturday afternoon after finding a feed, and watching for 3 minutes. Just in time to see Neal Maupay dispossessed like a child and Bournemouth counter-attack with more venom, will and desire than I have seen from an Everton team in some time.

(Well okay, the goals in the Crystal Palace game were impressive and were the type of football that we all yearn for from the team, but that performance has been a rarity over the past few years!)

This was then followed by Jaidon Anthony waltzing in, totally unmarked, to nod in Bournemouth's third and cap-off another thoroughly dismal display from the Blues on the road, and twice in the space of a week to the amazing, Premier League contenders, Bournemouth!

And that is part of what brings me to the conclusion that Frank Lampard has had his time and needs to move on. As a club, whilst we have changed managers too many times over the course of Moshiri's tenure, I actually believe that we hang on to a manager for too long before pulling the usually inevitable trigger on ending a failing manager's reign.

After a credible draw at Old Trafford last season, Rafael Benitez presided over 9 losses in 12 matches, which also included a return of just 1 point from 7 games at the start of that run — that's just 1 point from a possible 21 that could have been obtained.

The fact that he was even appointed in the first place was a travesty, but how or why he kept his job after a dreadful performance away to Brentford, followed by a mauling at home to Liverpool; but a last-minute smash and grab by Demarai Gray bought some welcome relief at home to Arsenal.

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It took a further three defeats to to the mighty Palace, Brighton and Norwich, interspersed with a credible draw away to Chelsea (where the youngsters and second string showed our, woefully inept at that point, first team how it should be done), for the board to finally realise that Benitez should no longer be leading the team from the blue half of Merseyside.

“Managers should be given time”, “Short-term results aren't overly important if there is a good, solid, long-term plan in place”, “How can any manager be expected to change things in such a short period of time, especially with the over-rated, overly-expensive, squad of has-beens and not-good-enoughs that Benitez and/or Frank Lampard inherited?”

These concerns are fair enough to a certain extent; but what is expected of any football team, regardless of their standing in football – be it professional football, Sunday League, or kids football – is that, when those 11 players walk onto that pitch before kick-off, through to the moment that they walk off at the end of the game, they should give 110% for their team.

There should be a will and desire, not just to win the game, but to win every single individual battle that is entered into on the pitch. Every last inch of effort should be put into being first to the ball, making that tackle, winning that header, closing the opposition down, making space for your team-mate to pass to you, passing the ball forwards and in front of the man, and finally shooting at goal.

There should be nothing that stops that will and desire to win all of those battles, and if you lose the battle simply because the other player is faster, stronger, bigger than you, that is fine; but you should still be trying your damnedest to make sure they don't win it easily.

The problem that we have seen under many recent Everton managers – the end of Martinez's tenure, Koeman, Silva, and even the end under Carlo Ancelotti, but especially under Benitez and now worryingly under Lampard – is that players aren't willing to give their everything to the Everton cause. This, to me, suggests that, somehow and at some level, the manager has lost belief from his players in what it is that they are trying to achieve.

Frank Lampard inherited a horror show from Benitez, there's no doubt about that; players that were low on confidence, with numerous poor performances and dismal defeats, perhaps most characterized by the home defeat by Watford, which many feel was the catalyst for everything that happened after that last season.

However, with the introduction of a new manager, and the possibility of a fresh start, with the majority of the squad that really should have qualified for Europe under Ancelotti the season before – bar a run of awful results at the end of the season (perhaps coinciding with Ancelotti's daughter being held at knife point in her own home, and Carlo already having been sounded out about the Real Madrid job) – we never should have been in a relegation fight that went down to the last two games of the season.

Frank's record at the end of last season, after he took over and in all competitions, reads as follows: Played 21, Won 8, Drew 2, Lost 11. Not exactly an inspiring record, especially when one of those victories was at home against Boreham Wood – and it was only a second-half cameo from Rondon, which secured a largely lacklustre victory. The run included some horrific and unforgiveable performances away at Spurs, home to Wolves, away at Palace in the cup, and away at both Burnley and Watford.   

Whilst it also may not necessarily be fair to take away from the victories secured, which kept us up at the end of the season, as mentioned in my comment after the game this weekend – was it really Frank Lampard and his amazing tactics and motivation that secured us those vital results against Man Utd, Chelsea, Leicester City and Crystal Palace? Or was it the fans, who gave everything in their support of the team and roared us to safety? I suggested that Frank was as much a spectator as we all were, beholden to the Goodison faithful for securing our Premier League status for another year.

Into the current season, and after not securing any notifiable back-up for Calvert-Lewin, disaster struck just before the season began and Calvert-Lewin sustained a medium-term injury, which scuppered our main, and some would suggest our only, real goal threat. That is a hammer blow for any manager, and close defeats to Chelsea and Villa, which potentially would have been victories if we had a decent striker, were followed by more missed opportunities in the draws against Forest, Leeds and Liverpool.

This all meant that we didn't get our first win of the season until a 1-0 victory at home against West Ham, and you'd have to say we rode our luck in that game, but victory was secured, with a winner from a rather strange end of transfer window signing, but at least he was a striker – Neal Maupay.

Alongside Maupay, a number of other signings – notably, Coady, Tarkowski, and Onana – appeared at first to make our team far more resilient, and looking much more like a team than we had done since that fateful result at Watford the season before; however, in all honesty, other than the match at home against Palace, who can actually say that we have looked comfortable in any of our games?

Have we had a formation that meant that our players had confidence to try something and attempt to win a game? Have we had players that know exactly what their jobs are, when to chase, when to harry, who to mark, when to drive forwards etc?

There is an argument that perhaps we were beginning to look like more of that team just prior to Patterson getting injured in that fateful game between Scotland and Ukraine, but whilst performances did seem to be getting better, it still hadn’t turned into results up to that point.

Lack of a proper striker could certainly be given as a justifiable reason, but isn’t that part of the job of the manager? To identify areas within the team where we have a shortfall? And if that shortfall can’t be filled from within, from a player stepping up from the reserves or the youth teams, then a player has to be signed.

We obviously had money, as shown by the signings of McNeil, Onana, Maupay, Garner and Gana (depending on who you believe around the actual cost of his signing), and whilst a lot of these deals were structured on the drip-feed, surely something similar could have been put in place for that much-needed striker?

I believe that most of our signings have been down to Kevin Thelwell, but surely it is still down to Lampard to impress upon him his requirements, and from the outside, it would seem that a striker just wasn’t his priority. Very strange given the old adage, and surely demonstrated by some of those early season results – goals win you games!!

In actuality, every game, we have conceded numerous attempts on goal, and whilst Coady and Tarkowski have undoubtedly made us defensively more resilient, and up until recently had seemed to instil a greater level of confidence in the team, we have been indebted to Pickford in many games for gaining the results we have.

Lampard’s record this season, across all competitions, reads as follows: Played 17, Won 4, Drawn 5, Lost 8. The last 8 games have yielded 1 win and 1 draw, along with 6 losses. If every one of those games was in the league that’s 4 points from a possible 24. That is relegation form.

And it’s not just the run of results that is the problem. Throughout those past 8 games we have only scored 5 goals, of which 3 of them were in the one game, where for once everything clicked; but overall, I would suggest that we have generally played extremely poorly.

In those matches, how many chances have we created? How many times have we actually looked like scoring? How many shots have we conceded?

There have certainly been some questionable refereeing decisions throughout these games, and in all honesty, throughout a lot of Lampard’s tenure (Newcastle, Man City, Liverpool last season and Liverpool, Newcastle and now Bournemouth this season, to list a few off the top of my head), but I believe that those decisions perhaps just mask what have generally also been some pretty dire performances.

Whilst unquestionably a bad refereeing decision can make it feel like the world is against you, it is up to the manager to ‘gee the team’ back up, move on, get over the injustice and get back to the task at hand, which is winning the football match and winning every personal battle that you find yourselves in.

Lampard to me just doesn’t seem to have the ability to do that. When have we seen the team come out after half-time and turn things around? When has there been a match-changing substitution (Dele Alli aside in that game against Palace at the end of last season, although some would question what Dele actually did to warrant the praise he has received for his performance in that game) or change of formation from Lampard which has meant that we have either turned a game around, or really turned the screw on a team, to guarantee that an Everton victory was going to be the only result of the match – that Palace match at the end of last season being the thorn in my side in respect of this point of course!

He did seem to hit on a formation and a team, against Palace again just recently, in a 4-2-3-1, with Iwobi being the central attacking midfielder, ahead of Onana and Gana, and we comprehensively outplayed them, playing some great football, with Iwobi involved in everything good that we did, as he has been throughout the majority of the season.

But did he stick with it? Did he play that formation again in our following matches?

No, he changed things around, playing Onana in the CAM position against Fulham, leaving us toothless and without creativity, hanging on for our lives in a second half, where we should have at the very least been competing, as we had done against Palace the game before.

We were shocking at home against Leicester, conceding the majority of play and thoroughly deserving of our loss… and the less said about the two games against Bournemouth; with the first game re-introducing his awful three centre-backs and wing-backs system, which we have never looked comfortable with, and Michael Keane has certainly never got to grips with; making 9 changes and using that shocking system was in all probability only ever going to end up with one result!

And that leads me back to the start of this rant; in this final game against Bournemouth, not only did he play a 4-3-3 formation with Iwobi pushed out wide, where he has the least impact on the game, but our players didn’t look like they had that will and desire to win every single personal battle that they were involved with.

Yes, Calvert-Lewin was injured again; yes, this suggested that potentially we were a little bit short up top, but Maupay was lively and involved in the games he played prior to Calvert-Lewin’s return from injury earlier in the season. But instead of having a coherent game plan and strategy that would give us the potential to win the game through playing to those players’ strengths that we have on the pitch, instead of every player working hard to win those individual battles, not least to take revenge for the shocking result in the cup just a few days earlier, we just looked confused and lost, and we certainly didn’t look like a team that was playing for and believing in their manager and his ethos.

For me, that is worrying, and lends itself very much to my suggestion that Lampard has come to the end of his tenure – short though it may have been and including the relative success of keeping Everton up last season (mainly down to the fans, I would suggest, as opposed to managerial genius of course); but it does seem to follow a pattern across his managerial career to date. I’m not sure that we can afford to let him have the time to turn things around...

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Jim Bennings
1 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:35:32
I suppose it has if you think a new manager will be any better working with that pile of dross that has failed under many managers now.

Holgate, Keane, Davies, even captain Coleman is part of the problem, let's face it.

Gordon, Gray, all pace with not much else.

Dwight McNeil, fair enough, that's on Frank (or Thelwell, or both).

The lack of quality going forwards is glaringly worrying and not even Pep would make this team any more potent.

We've seen Carlo Ancelotti holding his hands out in despair in his final game of the season: "Why? Why?? Why???" he asked when another simple misplaced 5-yard pass was made.

That's what we now have at this club.

Gary Johnson
2 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:02:29
Burnley were relegated last season as a result of not scoring enough goals. With today's balls and techniques, you cannot hope for 1-0 wins anymore. In most games, the other side will score. Not planning for this was beyond criminal.

Unfortunately, I can see from the positive odds in the bookies, he isn't going anywhere. There's no rumours, no confidence votes, nothing. I suspect our inept board are sitting on their thumbs and will act half-way through January, when we are bottom and some World Cup managers may be available.

Too little and too late this time. I really think our “luck” (we had it last season, we had it against Wimbledon) is run out, and the inept board are finally going to get what their management deserves.

Neil Lawson
3 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:01:09
Any change in manager now is highly unlikely. The telling period will be January. Lampard has a month to reassess and reevaluate.

There has to be a change in system and approach bolstered, hopefully, by a couple of signings. A striker is crucial. If, however, we start up again in the same vein as now, then Lampard will be writing his own dismissal letter. It is very much in his own hands. I really hope that he is brave and positive and ruthless.

Watching Brentford players tearing down the pitch at full tilt and in numbers, and other teams similarly last weekend, shows what can be achieved when well managed and positive.

My 2 sons weary of my cries of dismay when the ball goes backwards and side to side. Lampard has to be brave and positive and set out to score and win, not to avoid loss.

Yes, his resources are limited, but no more so than many of the teams around him. January, from my perspective, truly is shit or bust.

Derek Thomas
4 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:26:30
Whoever the manager is on Boxing day, our transfer business needs to be done on 31 December not 31 January... in fact, it needs to be in progress right now. 'Eyes' dotted, 'Tees' crossed with a New Year's Eve drink to wash it down.

Also none of this..."We're closed for the bank holiday come back on Tuesday the 3rd" – Brighton at Home on the 4th looms large... we have Man City away on the 1st is true – but I'll take the draw with that one.

Tony Everan
5 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:09:18
Steve, thanks for the article.

Simple questions. Has Frank improved us in the time he has been here ? No. We’re unwatchable, it’s only because we live and love the club that we do. Not for any footballing enlightenment. Were we any better under Benitez? No. In fact we we’re probably slightly more of an attacking threat under Benitez. Under Frank at the moment we create next to nothing, and hardly ever score. No goals in five of the last six league games, most opponents shooting at will every few minutes. That cannot be acceptable.

I want stability, the next to last thing I want is a manger change. The last thing I want is relegation.

There’s plenty of mangers out there who would be relatively on a par with Lampard and only a few that would do better with our squad.

So really it 100% depends upon who you are going to replace him with for a change to make any sense at all.

I’d be all for it if we can get a quality manager in who can guarantee to bring one, hopefully two forwards with him. Because whether we stick or twist with Frank the issue of goals is not going to go away without bringing some real threat in. Maybe even one buy and one on loan if necessary.

Without these two attacking players any manager will suffer and the death spiral will become inescapable.

Right now we have been given a remarkable gift, a parting of the Red Sea moment for EFC. A window of opportunity and a real chance to get out of our accelerating decline.

Mark Ryan
6 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:38:05
I was a big fan of getting Frank in. I wanted a break from the "old boys network" of Dunc, Rhino etc and thought as a new broom he would sweep clean. He and Thelwell have almost done that but the football is taking an age to get going.

The biggest disappointment from me is letting Simms go and getting Maupay in. That decision worries me slightly. The idea of playing Holgate, Keane blah blah in the cup and what he said afterwards was bollocks, real bollocks.

Ever watched Chewin the Fat and seen the character who whenever she hears bullshit being spewed, she simply raises her nostrils and says, in a Scottish twang " shite"
Well that post-match interview was that right there. 100%, pure and simple, gold nugget, shite. That was on him.

We could have played an almost full strength team to win that and build confidence and he never. Naive and worrying. My axe has been lifted, not yet up over my head ready to fall... but it's been readied!

Dave Abrahams
7 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:36:52
First of all, I find it strange that your fine post from yesterday has been added to today by another one with virtually the same topic on a different thread, so first come first first served.

A finely balanced post, Steve, and your question has been answered on another Everton fan's website with between three or four fans voting for Lampard to stay to everyone who wants him out; That was out of 700 voters.

I said yesterday on another thread that Frank and his coaching staff have about 6 weeks before the next game to change his plans, style, ideas and system to try and get the squad right and ready to get more points on the board

But that begs the question: What has he and his coaches been doing since the players came back from their summer break? Only in the Crystal Palace game have they won convincingly.

None of us want this constant changing of managers. We know two or three players are desperately needed; if and when we get them in, can Frank be trusted to get them and the rest of the squad to gel together and become a team that we can be confident in to move us up the league and save us from another worrying end to the season?

Looking at his record as a manager, particularly at Everton, I'd say no. If he stays, I wish him the utmost luck and hope he proves me wrong.

Mike Price
8 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:21:33
The negative football, non-existent game management, very poor recruitment, and progressively confused post-match interviews clearly show he is not a manager. He's a likeable character that was a great footballer, is eloquent, and knows a lot about football but he's just not a manager. If his name was Gerrard, he'd have been sacked a month ago.

We'd all love some stability and it would be great if he could succeed but it's not going to happen. There is nothing to cling on to as a beacon of hope when you watch them play. Every other team in the Premier League has at least something and every other team carries more threat and hope than we do. That's a shocking indictment of this club and of him as a manager.

I'd love the Bielsa rumours to be true because at least we'd know he'd sort the lazy ones out, get them fit, and go on the attack. It might not work with this pathetic squad but at least there'd be some entertainment and we'd go down fighting.

Like a lot of others have said on here lately, it just feels different, like our luck has run out and this time we're going to leave it too late and not get out of it. The fact that the Premier League is so much stronger and there are no obvious dead ducks makes it much more likely than ever before that we'll drop.

Howard Sykes
9 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:48:08
Madness is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. Changing manager yet again would be another act of madness.
Adrian Evans
10 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:07:32
Even if Bielsa comes in, he's going to want a pair of proven goal machines, established top-class finishers. Any manager is going to want and need the same.

There's nowt wrong with what Frank has done defensively. Bad luck with Patterson, Mykolenko is a star, given his situation off the pitch.

Midfield 20 year old, turns 21 comes to Premier League. Newly capped Belgian, we mad, Gueye comes back, Doucoure from injury, Garner steps up, few minutes in Premier League.

Lampard is okay, but he needs £100M for a pair of quality finishers. Whatever manager comes in will want the same.

If he had a fit, firing Calvert-Lewin, Maupay would be better, much better. Even Rondon would have been better. But we ain't, he hasn't. We are 9 points worse than we should be, cos of no finishers, no Mitrovich or Richarlison.

Moise Kean scored a brace for Juventus v Lazio last night. One against Verona five days ago, win. So us Mighty Everton loan out Moise Kean to Juve?????? Lampad, Thelwell get to Milan, talk to Juve, Allegri, Moise Kean. Allegri rates Kean now 4years on.I watched him, Beast!!!

So Juve don't want to pay us €27M. So ask Allegri to persuade Kean to come back for 21 games, score 12 to 15 in the Premier League, prove to himself, Allegri, Juve he's a top, top striker now.

Help us, bring another striker mate on loan. We give Juve the discount they want: €10M if his, their goals keep us up. No-brainer!!!! Frank. A solution.

34 points we are safe out of 69. 40points, half way: 12th. Don't sack Frank, give him, (and the fans) the strikers. Frank, will set up to Win games with two good strikers. No time for experimenting with Brereton Diaz, or young Everton players.

Maupay, the No 2/3 striker, Calvert-Lewin not automatic, he has to fight for his place..
Sell Pickford, Gordon, 5 surplus squad players if we need.£100M.

Play youngsters. Get Branthwaite back here in January.

Stu Darlington
11 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:17:09
I've stated on other threads a number of times that I've never been a fan of Lampards from the start and his stats and team performances to date only support that view.
I think he's probably got until February to turn things around, but that leaves us with the problem of who do we replace him with?

Even top clubs cannot guarantee a particular manager will bring success; look at Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs etc, and I have to confess I have absolutely no idea who would be successful for us.

I do believe however that re-appointing a past manager would be a retrograde step despite the number of posters on TW calling for Moyes or Martinez – it never works and they'll certainly have a large core of supporters against them from the start.

If I had to choose, I'd probably go for an up-and-coming manager from the Championship or lower divisions rather than overseas; the Championship is a tough competition and takes some winning.

After all, Moyes came after a successful spell at Preston! Whatever the outcome, the powers that be need to be identifying possible targets now and planning for a number of contingencies.

Am I confident that that is going to happen? You guessed it!

Trevor Peers
12 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:05:20
Unless something very strange happens, like a miracle, it's nailed on Lampard will lose his job. Not now… but by the end of January, when we'll be in such a bad state everybody will be clamouring for his resignation.

Looking at our next seven fixtures, only Wolves away, Brighton and Southampton at home look remotely winnable for Lampard, not easy though as two of those will have new managers installed. If we don't take any points by mid-January, he'll be long gone before we have to face Arsenal and Liverpool in early February.

The sensible thing to do would be to sack Frank this week and give an experienced manager the 6 weeks available from now until the end of the World Cup, to make his mark and install some sort of stability.

But you can virtually guarantee Everton will leave this decision until the 'last chance saloon' scenario, the end of January.

Kai Wing
13 Posted 15/11/2022 at 2022/11/15 : 17:56:28
Not looking to good for us at the minute. We need to start thinking about Lampard and is he really the man for the job?

In my opinion, he needs to be sacked. #COYB

Michael Boardman
14 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:31:40
I ddn't want Fat Frank, and revelled in the "Big Fat, Big Fat Frank" songs.

But then I warmed to him, thought he made a difference.

But I've seen a reactive animal over the last few games. Ever since he stated he was an "Evertonian" – this stinks of Bill Kenwright, so I say sack, and get Bielsa, before Bournemouth do.

Danny O’Neill
15 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:43:37
Bielsa? Sacked by Leeds who then flirted closer to relegation than we did? Could have gone down on the last day.

Just as we could still have still qualified for Europe on the last day under Ancelotti.

But we'd rather have Bielsa?

I guess it's down to opinions.

Dale Self
16 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:46:13
Again, I claim that Bielsa would cry in the initial training sessions. A grief counselor will be required when he regains consciousness.
Rob Halligan
17 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:47:11
Adrian #10.

It's all very well saying we should get Moise Kean back, even only on loan, but I really don't think he wants to set foot in this country again, let alone Goodison or Finch Farm.

Then again his nemesis, Duncan Ferguson, who put him on as a sub, then dragged him off about 15 minutes later at Man Utd, is no longer with us, so maybe he will re-consider and would return.

Somehow, I doubt it though.

Dave Abrahams
18 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:16:02
Dale (16),

I think it would be more likely that the players would need the grief counsellor after a couple of training sessions with Bielsa!!

Eddie Dunn
19 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:27:00
I've asked this on the other thread and nobody has answered me so I'll ask again. If we sacked Lampard, who would offer him a job?

We have watched his inability to bring in a proper striker and allowed two to go out on loan, we have watched his miserable formations lose the midfield in almost every match, and watched his terrible subs, like-for-like in every match.

Then we have seen him throw away the League Cup and be unabe to set us up to stop another hiding.

If we don't boot out the affable numpty now, we will be faced with trying to coax a saviour after the transfer window, with another couple of mediocre duds on the training field.

Let's face it, Dominic looks compromised and it might take a few months, if he avoids further injuries, for him to get anywhere near match fit.

Frank has shown that he has little tactical nous, can't motivate, and has a stubbornness that has seen him make the same mistake time and again. Such traits are clearly red flags.

Mark my words, he will take us down. To delay is making relegation more likely.

Adrian Evans
20 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:01:40
Hi, Rob Halligan @17.

Agree, Moise Kean maybe doesn't fancy it. He was so young, couldn't adapt, difficult club to come to. But we bought him, a young 18-year-old.

Now, three or more years on, PSG starts goals. Back to Juve, scoring for fun, top striker. But an Everton player still. This is a different situation.

Allegri his manager might be the key. Juve want a discount and Moise Kean hadn't delivered €27million form. Moise Kean wants to play for Juve. Allegri his manager fancies him. So he tells Moise Kean "You go back, score 12 goals plus for Everton in the Premier League in 20 games. Dig your club out the poooooo. Keep them up. Show me, Juve, you're good enough to score, and win games v Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd, Newcastle, Spurs. Do that, show the Premier League you're a top striker. Show me, earn us a €10million discount."

So yep, I get it about a young Kean. But if Allegri says "Go, show us, do your job." Then it's up to Lampard and Thelwell. A good solution if the lad sees it as redemption, his future is with Juventus in the 2023-24 season.

Rob Halligan
21 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:08:49
Actually Adrian, how can we get a player back on loan, when in fact he's already our player who is out on loan! If we want him back, we simply recall him from his loan at Juventus.

I don't think there is any recall clause written into his loan agreement with Juventus though, so it seems he's there for the entire season, until they are obliged to pay us £28M next summer.

Does anyone know if we can recall Moise Kean or not?

Andy Crooks
22 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:21:30
Bielsa?? Martinez????!! I don't think it is obligatory for supporters to name a new coach. However, surely some by- law could be dug up to prevent anyone ever mentioning Martinez and Everton in the same sentence again. Shit, just broke the law already.

Christy Ring
23 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:26:19
Eddie #19

Who would we get as manager, starting all over again.

I see Bielsa and Dyche mentioned: one got his club relegated, the other sacked, his club survived the last day.

Lampard had to sell Richarlison, had to bring in players on loan, for free, and the players he bought were deals where fees are paid over 3/5 years.

Rob I believe a fee was agreed for Moise Kean, so there's no chance we can recall him.

Pete Jeffries
25 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:43:40
Just watched Lewis Dobbin score the goal of the month at Derby ! On BBC Three
How ironic
Stu Darlington
26 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:49:47
Can’t give you a definitive answer Eddie,but if he wants to stay in football management I suspect it won’t be in the Premier League.
His deficiencies are too obvious for clubs who do their homework to overlook.I can’t deny the defence is better than it was last season,but his midfield selections and formations are so illogical and eccentric that we are constantly being over run,and that means that even the best defence will crack.
I’m beginning to suspect that he doesn’t know what his best team is.The old terrace jibe” you don’t know what you’re doing “ springs to mind.
But he is quite a personable and articulate young man,with a good international career behind him,so I would see his future career in the media as a pundit or commentator or some such.I’m sure the media would accept him with open arms,especially as he is related to lovable uncle ‘Arry!
Brendan McLaughlin
28 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:51:56
It's OK Andy #22

I'm sure even if there was such a law there'd be a Sub-section 17(b) where it's permissable if you mention Martinez, Everton and Shit all in the one post.

Gary Hughes
30 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:34:14
On Radio 5 last night, they did a run down on the teams most likely to be in a relegation battle and had Greg O’Keefe on from the Athletic talking about Everton.

He mentioned that whoever was making the decisions at the top hiring and firing were very taken with the Celtic manager and he said nothing would be happening until after we had played Celtic in Australia next week.

Don Alexander
31 Posted 15/11/2022 at 23:16:21
Wiki contend the Greek Celtic manager grew up supporting Liverpool.
Jeff Armstrong
32 Posted 16/11/2022 at 05:39:41
Would Thelwell now be the one to make managerial decisions?

You'd think it should be after the (ahem) recent review of the operational running of the club.

If so, I would expect him to be very loyal to Lampard given their recent player recruitment.

I don't think changing manager is happening very soon.

Danny O’Neill
33 Posted 16/11/2022 at 06:24:18
Rob, I suspect we could call him back, but we seem to have done some kind of deal with Juventus. No doubt a dodgy one as I've always thought it tricky and vague dealing with the Italian clubs.

Then again, they're apparently in financial trouble and in typical Italian style seem to be wanting to negotiate a discount and are back-tracking on the original terms by all accounts. Please don't send Bill as chief negotiator. We'll end up paying them for Moise to remain at Juventus.

From a pure football perspective, I'd welcome him back and give it another go. But I can't see it happening. The player just didn't settle at Everton or in England and maybe never would.

Andy Crooks, I would love to watch you and my brother have a drink and discuss Martinez. He has strong views and you'd both get on very well!!!

Trevor Peers
34 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:57:39
I'd go for Sean Dyche if Frank goes, as we are now virtually in firefighting territory, he performed miracles at Burnley with a squad of players similar to the crap squad at Everton right now.

I doubt Moshiri would agree though, he has this fantasy about Beilsa coming in and playing fantasy football, what a disaster that could be. Although at least we would see some attacking football, that would be a novelty !

Obviously it would be better if Moshiri sold the club and we had a clear out at the top, but I don't see a queue of billionaire's lining up to buy a club with so many problems.

Ray Roche
35 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:08:25
Trevor, where do you get this stuff (crap) about Moshiri having a ‘fantasy’ about Bielsa coming in? Who has given you the inside line that the Bucket Sitter is Moshiri’s idol?

Christ on a bike!

In the event that no accurate information is available let’s make some shite up.

Your last paragraph is pretty good though

Trevor Peers
37 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:41:31
Ray are you in a bad frame of mind mate? You're as savvy as I am to reading the rumours in the press.

If you're having a hard time accepting Everton's plight, go and get some help.

Ray Roche
38 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:57:33
Trevor, not in a bad frame of mind (honest), just tired of reading rumours, made up crap from the Sun etc, being presented as fact.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe I need help. Maybe I should also read the Daily Star or the Sun and chill out and believe that all that’s written there is pukka. And maybe in no time I’ll be sleeping in Boots doorway with a dog on a rope, drinking cheap wine and shouting at pigeons.

Come to think of it, I drink cheap wine now….,

Trevor Peers
39 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:09:05
Ray, t

That 'article' was in SportsMole it's one of many internet sites I wade through and I agree is probably highly speculative, but this is a forum and I was just having a bit of fun.

I don't drink at all now haha I used to love a few beers though. 😂

Ray Roche
40 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:21:05
No worries Trevor, It's a pet hate of mine, seeing rumours printed as fact. Disinformation etc.

I'm a bit of a lightweight when it comes to drinking though, I haven't had a pint in 6 years.

Enjoy a glass of red or a g+t though.

Eddie Dunn
41 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:51:49

I think Dyche is unfairly regarded by many. After all, he didn't take Burnley down and he kept them up for 8 years or so. His record reads 245 games, 97 wins, 69 draws, 79 losses. A 39% win rate.

All this with bargain basement players. Sounds like he is just the man to squeeze everything out of our squad.

Robert Tressell
42 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:02:53
Eddie # 41,

When we were searching for Silva's successor I said that it should be Ancelotti if we are going to throw money at it, Bruno Genesio then of Lyon if we were going for youth development or Dyche if the money had run out.

Unfortunately the money ran out some time ago.

Dyche is a good fit for a club that needs to reset, form the basis of a reliable mid-table side and hopefully form the foundations of better things. In fact, Dyche is much better qualified than Lampard for that role.

We would play 4-4-2, stop arsing about with zonal marking, and be horrible to play against.

Would it be pretty? No.

Has it been pretty in the past 30 years?

No, apart from a few brief spells when the stars aligned.

Who else is there other than Dyche who would not represent a colossal gamble with our top flight status?

I'm struggling...

Jim Bennings
43 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:36:13
Bielsa is yesterday's man.

Imagine him trying to train some of our players to attack in droves and pass the ball forward?

He'd need ten bottles of cod liver oil to sit squatting managing us.

Christy Ring
44 Posted 16/11/2022 at 14:57:05
Eddie #41,

I'm actually surprised Dyche hasn't got a managerial appointment since he departed Burnley, unless he's taking a break. A good honest manager who did a great job with limited funds. I remember him playing for Watford against us in the “84 FA Cup Final.

Raymond Fox
45 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:54:53
Howard 9, has it right.

We're already a joke, it's good players we need, but quality ones don't grow on trees.

It's not the manager's fault if the players on the field can't pass to one another, they're supposed to be Premier League players.

How are we going to score if moves break down before we get anywhere near the opposition penalty area?

We nearly went down with Richarlison in the side; even with Calvert-Lewin fit, we are now weaker.

We have a DoF who never gets a mention, he wants to get his finger out and sign 1 or 2 strikers. Problem is can he find any in the next window?

Having said that, no one knows who has the final say and signs the players!

Phillip Warrington
46 Posted 16/11/2022 at 16:22:31
I would love Everton to try and get Christian Streich who has done an unbelievable job at SC Freiburg.

Ange Postecoglou's teams have always played good football at club and national level. Arne Slot and Oliver Glasner would be handy to.

Barry Hesketh
47 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:02:02
Christy @44

I thought I knew everything there was to know about the 1984 FA Cup Final, but your claim to have witnessed Sean Dyche in Watford's ranks on that grand day at Wembley, raised my interest.

I checked the line-ups, he wasn't in the Watford squad. In fact Dyche's first mention is whilst playing for Nottingham Forest U18s in 1988 and he didn't appear for Watford until 2002. Perhaps, you were thinking of Bardsley or Sinnott?

Christy Ring
48 Posted 16/11/2022 at 21:12:15
Barry@47 My apologies I'm completely wrong, I don't know who I was thinking of, because I even remember watching the game back, and I still thought he was playing, I must have been on the sauce! He was only 13 at the time.
Jerome Shields
49 Posted 17/11/2022 at 08:36:59
The problem with this analysis is that it has been seen before.The Manager is responsible for the players who are not responsible.Now after numerous tries the expendable Manager is a questionable solution.What about the common denominator over the season's of failure, the player that stay and the life long Everton DNA of most of the internal Management of the Club.

It got to the stage that replacing the Manager is now not the primary solution, now getting rid of the owner is the solution.But again how does that tackle the common denominator problem.More than likely the existing internal Management will have a big say in who the new owner is, because in negotiations they will have to engage with them, meaning to a large extent they will be retained.IMO it is wishful thinking that a takeover means a complete cleanout.I would say Bill if he decides to stay will be kept.No wonder the half baked only are interested taking over, that's before consideration of the inherited financial constraints.

Yes it is a lot more complicated than one would hope, but after 30 years of suffering you get use to it.If Moshiri had have got his first choice for Manager it would be the same, but a lot nutter.

George McKane
50 Posted 17/11/2022 at 08:58:14
PW/46 - Streich and Freiburg are my Bundesliga Team - interesting that we sometimes criticise “old boys” brigade but Streich has played for and managed at every level at Freiburg - highly regarded - loved by players and opponents - they are 2nd I think in Bundesliga now - I would look to Bundesliga for strikers - they are willing to give young players a chance.
Danny O’Neill
51 Posted 17/11/2022 at 09:03:34
It's generally how a lot of German clubs operate George. Certainly how their system operates, hence their success on the international stage.

Meanwhile, my team, Schalke are languishing at the foot of the table on their return from Bundesliga 2.

What a season I'm having!

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 17/11/2022 at 09:20:20
Does the German system have an under-21 league, or is it more about getting young players out on loan, Danny?
Dupont Koo
54 Posted 17/11/2022 at 12:33:41
I'm cutting and pasting my comments from another thread regarding Frank.

I would simply preach patience:

1) Give Frank (and Thelwell) a chance to get rid of the remaining deadwoods who did themselves no favour in the Carabao Cup disgrace: Mina, Holgate, Keane, TD & even Doucoure. Along with Rondon's salary, that is, IMHO, £350K+ per week on the wage bill. Just imagine most, if not all, of that sum will be bid adieu in January and be re-invested to bring in more suitable players

2) It took Sir Alex Ferguson 5 years to win the Manc their first major trophy in 1991 and he nearly got sacked 2 years into his tenure

3) Frank might have given benefit of the doubts to his players too easily, but at least the Week of Horror at Bournemouth told him who have abused his trust and faith (DCL's injuries and lack of availability might even start testing Frank too)

4) It might be pleasing for some looking at Jesse Marsch turning Leeds into the Everton under Bobby Brown Shoes, but I'd rather we stick to where we have been so far this season, which is mostly tough to beat and solid defensively

Larry O'Hara
55 Posted 17/11/2022 at 13:37:42
Dupont you talk a lot of football sense: far more interesting than mutual back-scratching by the normal TW invisible inner circle. Post more!
Jim Wilson
56 Posted 17/11/2022 at 14:36:33
Dupoint and Larry,

I can understand the point you are making. But when Man Utd stuck with Fergie and Everton stuck with Kendall first time round, their teams were going nowhere but were not in relegation danger.

This is different. We are in danger of going down and it is almost unbelievable as it is almost unbearable that we have won only 3 league games out of 15.

Jerome Shields
57 Posted 17/11/2022 at 15:23:50
As for recruitment under Frank, is it really a surprise that those players underperform in a team that has collectively underperformed for years?

We have seen these type of performances before, when lack of player application to training has resulted in not bothering to move into the correct position, non-existent support play, failure to track back, errors and lack of pace.

Some players in The Bournemouth debacle looked as if they could not kick a ball. Any players brought in will find themselves in the same situation and gravitate to the lowest common denominator of mediocrity.

Really, Everton needs to undergo radical change from top to bottom. I am beginning to think that Moshiri is pushing ahead with the stadium development and hoping the football problem will go away. No chance with those that he has left running the club.

Paul Hughes
58 Posted 17/11/2022 at 15:53:48
I think any manager would struggle to get a tune out of the current group of players. The club is dysfunctional from top to bottom. In my opinion changing the manager yet again would just make things worse - it hasn't made any difference the last 4 times we've done it.
Frank, at least: is articulate; is willing to call out unacceptable performances; clearly 'gets' the club; won't suffer from a "show us your medals" backlash; and knows what good looks like. I think the last manager to meet all those criteria was Joe Royle.
Now can he put a team together? Don't know yet, but he needs to be given a chance. He's only had one transfer window.
Bielsa? You're having a laugh. What could a loose cannon like that do in the circumstances we find ourselves?
Tom Bowers
59 Posted 17/11/2022 at 16:33:34
Hard to determine what has gone wrong at Everton but, in retrospect, it's nothing new as the rot has been there for years.

Much as Moyes had his critics when he was here, they were a much tougher team to beat than the sorry bunch who performed in the last three matches.

Yes, every team goes through bad spells… but Everton seem to have been in one under every manager since Moyes.

We all wanted Lampard to succeed and he managed to get enough out of them to avoid the drop last season but, after the sale of Richarlison and the injury woes of Calvert-Lewin, he has had a team that just struggles to make much impact going forward.

Gordon has looked decent in flashes, as has Gray, but their form has not been sustained and the options, Maupay, Rondon and a few others, have shown they are not good enough.

It appears only Iwobi has progressed since last season although Onana has looked impressive.

I don't really know if Godfrey, Mina or Townsend will make worthwhile contributions – if and when they are fit – but I suspect not.

For Lampard to keep his job, I think he needs a big boost from the board in January to get at least 2 quality strikers; otherwise, the struggle will continue.

Brendan McLaughlin
60 Posted 17/11/2022 at 16:47:26
It's not really hard, Tom #59,

Since Moyes, we've appointed a series of poor, ill-fitting and frankly disastrous managers. Frank's just another in an ever-increasing list.

Jerome Shields
62 Posted 17/11/2022 at 23:20:29
Brendan, Moyes did not have a good record either.
Brendan McLaughlin
63 Posted 17/11/2022 at 23:32:18
Jerome #62

"Moyes did not have a good record either."

I'll accept that Moyes didn't have a fantastic, brilliant, world class record but surely no one would begrudge him "good".

Good to see you posting regularly again... all good?

Don Alexander
64 Posted 18/11/2022 at 00:06:51
Tom (#59),

Yes, we need a couple of competent strikers in January but do any of us (the Esk perhaps?) know whether the owner or board has so completely fucked us over on FFP that we're barred from signing anyone of substance?

Danny O’Neill
65 Posted 18/11/2022 at 08:33:32
Tom @59, we've been having bad spells since 1987.

Under Moyes, we had bad spells interspersed with a fleeting moments of optimism where we thought this could be the moment. But we choked and insisted on banging our heads against the glass ceiling.

I thought that Moyes's transfer record was generally okay considering the operating constraints he was under. Yes, there was the odd Per Krøldrup…

I don't think you'll find many managers who make dud signings as much as they make great ones. Be that a star player, a hidden gem or even a player who initially seems uninspiring and raises eyebrows only to become a favourite and key player.

Andy Gray, Tim Cahill, Lee Carsley and dare I say, even though early days, James Tarkowski could fall into that category.

Paul Hewitt
66 Posted 18/11/2022 at 08:36:25
If we lose to Wolves on Boxing Day, I think Frank will be sacked. We would then have wasted 6 weeks for a new manager to work with the squad.
Mal van Schaick
67 Posted 18/11/2022 at 09:21:15
I wonder if the manager and players ‘get it', when fans who have paid and travelled a long way to watch them play, and are approached by the players at the final whistle after a poor performance and defeat, when fans throw shirts back at players and engage them in arguments regarding their performance?

I hope that the manager and the players understand the depth of feeling, and ironically the motto of our club “Nil Satis, Nisi Optimum“, to use those two performances against Bournemouth and show they're not good enough.

Dave Abrahams
68 Posted 18/11/2022 at 10:05:58
Danny (65),

Yes, amazingly to me, Lee Carsley was a favourite with many Everton fans.

I couldn't stand him personally, except when he scored that derby goal of course. I think that goal and the scenes celebrating it on the field had a lot to do with Carsley's popularity!!

Rob Jones
69 Posted 18/11/2022 at 10:13:36
Dave, I loved Lee Carsley. The goal I'll always remember was against West Ham at Upton Park.

Paul, I absolutely agree. It's grim that we're looking at wasting all that time rather than allowing a replacement to bed in. We either have to stick, or fire him now. I'll be livid if we fire him in mid-January.

Dave Abrahams
70 Posted 18/11/2022 at 10:25:07
Rob (69), yes fair enough on Carsley, I always wondered how he ever played in the Premier League, but each to their own.

I agree that now is the time to let Frank go and get someone in his place. He's a nice fella but we need more than that at the moment. These players, a lot of them, love nice managers – we need a nasty bastard who will make them nasty on the field and let the other team know they are there, instead of strolling through the game like it is a training session.

Danny O’Neill
71 Posted 18/11/2022 at 11:22:47
My son, who is much more educated and sensible than me on wider football matters, told me that apparently Lee Carsley has no interest in senior team management. He much prefers woking at developmental level.

I can relate to that. They are different skills requiring a different approach.

I agree Dave, I never really rated Carsley personally.

Raymond Fox
72 Posted 18/11/2022 at 12:29:18
Looking through our squad, the defence looks okay, it's when you look for creativity going forward and our goal threat that it gets worrying.

I'm not for dismissing Lampard, I don't see where he can change the team for the better with the players he has available.

On past evidence they're simply not good enough, we have changed the midfield from last season but is it any better? I don't think so.

We have lost Richarlison which is a big negative; we were never going to replace him like for like, so who do you blame for that?Add to that the injury situation with Calvert-Lewin and Lampard is right behind the black ball.

He needs better attacking players because we are in a worse place than last season as it is now. We have a few players we should be able to sell to fund the cost of bringing in a couple who would improve our attack.

Steavey Buckley
73 Posted 18/11/2022 at 16:17:27
Time is not just running out for Frank Lampard but for Everton, who won't be able to avoid relegation with the present squad of players.
Brian Murray
74 Posted 18/11/2022 at 16:46:15

I've heard both sides of the argument as in not more upheaval but it's obvious as you say this set of players minus Richarlison is pushing its luck. Football is all about timing, luck, and of course ability.

Still a hard call to make without knowing if it's panic in January and see what's left or we now have e a DoF who's nailing these signings as we speak.

Tony McNulty
75 Posted 18/11/2022 at 16:49:08
With a decent striker, in comparison with other teams in the Premier League just now, we would probably be a mid-table-mediocrity team.

We don't have such a striker available, and would a decent striker want to join us in January?

I suspect the stars will align, and with luck, we will survive. But be in no doubt, the rest of this season will be a stressful ride.

Steavey Buckley
76 Posted 18/11/2022 at 18:15:21

In Everton's last 3 games, they are showing the same type of disarray as last season that got Benitez sacked. Other teams near Everton at the bottom of the Premier League are showing improvement, but Everton are showing a steep decline.

What happens too often, players lose confidence in their manager, that's what I am noticing with the Everton players, because whatever Frank Lampard is saying to the players is not working on matchdays.

Brian Murray
77 Posted 19/11/2022 at 06:00:11
Just seen the full interview with Frank on Toffee TV. Even now, he seems to think he can't do anything about the balance of the midfield. Double pivot or not, it looks totally beyond him, which is a big worry.

You can't keep hiding behind the fans, saying how great they are, mate.

Steavey Buckley
78 Posted 19/11/2022 at 07:15:50
The Everton midfield is poor because Gana and Onana are ineffective in a formation no one really understands. Everton need a manager who can get the best out of the team with a few additions who can score goals.
Tony Everan
79 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:19:58
According to The Athletic, the board are giving Frank a chance. I think the next three games will seal his fate.

Wolves (H) 26th, Man City (A) 31st and Brighton (H) 3rd January.

He needs 6 points plus to buy himself some time. A loss against struggling Wolves first game back at home could seal his fate though. Lose that and he's gone, as we'd be in the relegation zone and sinking like a stone.

If 4 points, it's limbo land and the jury would be well and truly out; it may come down to how we have performed in those games and if we have looked like we are progressing.

From 0 to 3 points, then I think any remaining confidence in him will drain away. Contingency for that eventuality, I would hope, will already be in full swing.

I think this is a strategic play by the board to give Frank an opportunity, with the help of the 6-week break, to prove himself capable of stabilising the situation and keeping us up. Whilst at the same time allowing themselves the opportunity to bring in a new manager on 4 January if necessary, and allowing him 10 days before the next crucial Premier League game.

It's a big gamble considering our alarming decline in form under Frank – since Fulham onwards, we have been dire and getting progressively worse.

However, I don't see a strategy that isn't risky, and this one gives us two bites of the cherry. On the downside, it deprives a new manager of 6 weeks preparation, and possibly forfeits critical points at home against Wolves and Brighton.

With the lack of obvious or inspirational managerial options, I'm just about in favour of the former plan and giving him an opportunity to turn it around.

Sentiment can't get in the way of acting fast, ruthlessly and decisively if this doesn't work out. I would urge the board to be ahead of the curve for once with regards replacements. This strategy, if chosen, doesn't allow any time for dithering.

Rob Dolby
80 Posted 19/11/2022 at 12:09:06
Thelwell and Lampard are aware of what the team need. Work will be going on in the background from the minute the summer window closed to identify targets.

We just don't see it or have an understanding of the financial restrictions that they are working under.

I want Lampard to be given a chance. The mess he walked into can't be sorted in one transfer window with the restrictions we have.

We want goalscorers, the same as everyone else. How do you persuade people to join a struggling club?

We aren't going to attract established top-quality goalscorers for £100M when we haven't broken our transfer record of £40M for 5 years.

We are in the market for hungry talent from other leagues. We could end up with a Kevin Campbell or Traore type; whichever way, it's going to be a gamble.

Take away strikers from every team besides Man City and they will all struggle. We are no different.

Eddie Dunn
81 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:10:26
Rob, just compare us to our next visitors. They have had injuries to strikers but their midfield is light years better than ours.

McNeil, Maupay, Gordon, Gray, Gana and Onana would not get into the Wolves side.

Boxing Day is going to fuck-up my Xmas.

Rob Dolby
82 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:25:21
Eddie, Its all about opinions, funnily enough I would say only Neves would get into our midfield from the wolves team.

If ever a game had nil nil written all over it!

Eddie Dunn
84 Posted 19/11/2022 at 15:42:01

Would you take a point now?

Brendan McLaughlin
86 Posted 19/11/2022 at 15:54:32
Wolves favourites with the bookies for the Boxing Day relegation 6-pointer.
Gary Johnson
87 Posted 19/11/2022 at 16:24:03
Kinell Brendan, that’s depressing stuff.
David West
88 Posted 19/11/2022 at 19:39:00
Rob 80. Level-headed post, mate.

That's what's needed now. We know the fans played their part last season but Lampard still had to organise them. I honestly despair that we are thinking of getting another manager, another backroom team, another set of ideas, another gamble on an ever shrinking pool of shit managers.

Do we honestly believe any decent manager will come knowing they have less than 12 months to fix this shit show?

Spend any money we have on goal getters, pay over the odds for the right guys, do what's needed to support Frank in what he needs, because any other managers are going to want money to spend, players to sign.

If we can afford to sack Frank, we can afford a striker or two!!!

Gary Johnson
91 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:14:57
Love the ridiculous “but no decent manger will come here” – whilst simultaneously ignoring Emery, De Zerbi, Lopetegui, et al.

But, hey, guess we have to be “realistic” and accept we are not big enough to compete with the mighty Villa, Brighton and Wolves, eh?

Sometimes, I think our fans are often as big a problem as bullshit Billy.

David West
92 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:39:34
No, the problem is people read a manger is linked with us in some rag-tag, clickbait website and think they are on their way here – it's fantasy!!

Where were these "top" managers when Rafa left?? Queuing up were they? No. What makes it any different now?

Some people live in a fantasy world, some choose to see the reality of our situation.

Brian Hennessy
93 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:46:48
On Lee Carsley, I always felt that he and Gravesen benefitted from being follically challenged.

I was at Goodison once with my wife who has not much interest in football. She did say after the game, "That bald lad ye have is great, he was everywhere on the pitch."

When I asked which bald lad she was talking about, she said she thought we only had one.

Gary Johnson
94 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:59:02
David, I've just named 3 managers we could easily have got…

Shout “fantasy” all you want, the simple fact is the Premier League is attractive to players and managers. It just needs teams to have and show ambition.

Something our fans need to have too.

Ben King
95 Posted 20/11/2022 at 00:33:35
An urban myth seems to have taken hold amongst Evertonians that Lampard has only had 1 transfer window. Why and how has this arisen? I thought we were supposed to be a knowledgeable bunch?

Who signed Donny van de Beek (who looked class before getting Evertonitus) and Dele Alli back in January?

Appreciate he didn't get the whole window but he certainly got involved a bit.

(But I accept we can't pin El Ghazi on him.)

Robert Tressell
96 Posted 20/11/2022 at 04:44:44
In terms of manager options, I agree that we probably could have got Lopetegui, Emery or DeZerbi.

However, I expect Wolves agent connections helped a great deal. I also expect Brighton are attractive because they are such a well run club. Emery may have been promised a decent kitty too, who knows.

Who knows whether any of them will be any good, too.

So whilst we could probably get someone like the available Marcelino (previously linked over the years), would that stop the rot?

We could probably tempt the coaches of high-flying Freiburg, Union Berlin or Eintracht Frankfurt by offering them much better pay.

Would that stop the rot?

Personally I see Wolves as very likely to go down with Lopetegui. Their main problem is injuries to Jiminez and Kalajdzic. Without that Lage would still have his job.

I think we're in the same place.

I don't think Lampard is a great manager but the problems run so much deeper. We need investment in forward options / goals if we're going to stay up.

Danny O’Neill
97 Posted 20/11/2022 at 06:56:41
Come on, Ben, that's a bit harsh. He was only appointed at the very end of the window and had little room for manoeuvre. He and the since then appointed DoF and staff have only had one real transfer window. No myth.

Urs Fischer at Union Berlin is an interesting shout, Robert. They might have dropped off in recent weeks, but he's done a great job at a club that was never really a top-flight club until their promotion only 3 years ago. They might not be looking down on Bayern as they were earlier in the season at one point, but they're in the mix for European places and above Dortmund.

If you like football documentaries, there's a good on on Union. In German, but with subtitles. Classic chant of "we've got your" capital, when they travel west. Reference to them being from East Berlin and the traditional capital centre of Berlin for 50 years or so was behind the Iron curtain and in East Berlin, where they originate from.

Robert Tressell
98 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:02:51
Danny, I'll watch that documentary, thanks.

As for Urs Fischer, I have no doubt that he would be a disaster at Everton and take us down. Everything good at Union Berlin has been about patient, strategic development. We are a very, very different proposition.

For similar reasons, I would have no real faith in any of DeZerbi, Emery or Lopetegui at Everton.

Given the state we're in (financially and on the pitch), Dyche is the best candidate (unless we could get Pochettino which seems highly unlikely).

Jim Lloyd
99 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:22:43
It seems to me that, to think of changing managers now, except for someone like Pottecchino (and why would he come? as we appear to be a manager's killing ground!),

I think our club is paying the final instalment for allowing such a man to run it for quarter of a century. I don't think our manager would have picked Dele Alli and Maupay except out of desperation to see if they could do a job.

Donny von der Beek on loan? It seems to me that it's another desperate gamble, and the cause most likely for these choices is car boot sale cash that the club have managed to get itself into with a billionaire and multi-billionaire funding it!!!

If we could get Pochettino (highly unlikely in my view,) he would still have Keane, Mina, and a couple of other high-wage players on the books who we're unlikely to get rid of.

So, unless we are anywhere near clearing the Profitability and Sustainability constrictions and maybe the Financial Fair Play rules, were not likely to have enough funds to buy a top goalscorer (or even a decent one) and a midfield player who can supply chances for him, we're going to struggle.

In my view, we'll be lucky to escape relegation again. The only way we have a chance of escaping is if we back our manager, whoever is in charge.

I think in desperation some will call for Duncan Ferguson to manage us. I think that would be verging on insanity to pick a permanent manager who's never managed. My view is get the best manager going ... if he'll come. Otherwise, I see backing Frank Lampard as my choice... if I had one, that is!

Robert Tressell
101 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:57:26
Sadly Jim, I agree with all of that
David West
102 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:45:45
Jim 99 good points. You are spot on with the backing. Who's gonna keep us up with these non-scoring players? Pochettino will run a mile before tarnishing his reputation trying to get a tune out of these players.

We all knew when Lampard was appointed there were no quick fixes or shortcuts – it's a long-term fix that's needed. Long-term strategies in recruitment, coaching and the whole structure of the club. Yet people want all these things to happen over 12 months and, if not, they will call for another mangers head.

It's goalscorers we need – not another new manager!

Tony Everan
103 Posted 21/11/2022 at 16:22:13
I hope some valuable lessons have been learned in our pursuit of the necessary goal scorers, particularly in the January window.

Niasse was top scorer of the Russian league and player of the year. Tosun was rampant in the Turkish league.

We have to be careful, Kevin Thelwell has his work cut out to find the right players who will immediately improve the first team.

Peter Hodgson
104 Posted 23/11/2022 at 12:06:07
David West @102,

You are quite right although I'm not sure that anyone is listening. All this was said in the summer but did we get a goalscorer? Did we hell! We went out and got Maupay!

Unless those responsible wake up and listen this time, we going to get a similar sort of response in January and then we will (if it hasn't already happened) be serious relegation fodder.

We must have someone in the team for the second half of the season who willscore goals. And I'm not talking about Calvert-Lewin, who can't be relied upon, I'm afraid.

We have to have an alternative to him, wherever he comes from. We missed our chance of getting someone in during the long window in summer so now we are between a rock and a hard place in the short January window.

It is our own fault and it needs dealing with. No putting it off which is probably being said somewhere in the corridors of power. It must not be put off any longer or we will likely be seeing in the new Everton Stadium from the Championship.

Don't sack Lampard but do give him the tools he needs.

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