Everton and Ancelotti settle legal dispute

I dunno what it would've done to his motivation to stay over the seasons, but I believe he would've done better than the managers appointed after him.

Managers manage – these clowns couldn't manage a good shite.

Realising the club was in such a fucking mess when Real Madrid came calling, off he went and – if we are all honest – who could blame him?

It is going to take a long time for Everton to correct everything that has gone on these last 5 or 6 years. You couldn't make it up, we get a billionaire and, even then, we fuck that up!!!

I'm sure I read at the time his 'people' on his instructions contacted Real Madrid and he went for less money.

He left to manage Real Madrid.

Who wouldn't?

He could have been our game-changer if he was backed properly.

I like him because he's all about business and beats Liverpool, but he must have laughed his socks off negotiating with Moshiri and Usmanov.

It's probably a safe bet to disbelieve just about everything at the moment.

Benitez may have called us a "small club" — Ancelotti & Moshiri made it legal and official.

I know we at the top of the Premier League and in the top 4 for a big chunk of the season but the tail-off was a failure.

In many ways, we were naive. He knew he was going to Real Madrid the moment he left Napoli. He just needed a gullible and needy club flush with cash to park his behind in while Zidane outstayed his welcome in Madrid.

Still, he showed what the right coach can do in a comparatively short time. I fear Sean Dyche will be long gone before we are producing the kind of football Carlo had us playing.

Whatever the truth of the matter, we must have owed him something; otherwise, the club wouldn't have settled the case.

Anyone who manages a team that stops Liverpool winning a Champions League trophy is alright with me. He also gave us the first league win at Anfield this century.

So he's not all bad.

Carlo was lied to by our board and owner, sold a project which, by that time, didn't exist. The burglary was just the final nail in the coffin. He'd have gone anyway.

It maybe sounds a little bit contentious, but I'm hoping Dyche can bring a lot more pragmatism to his team. Ancelotti got a lot of good results by getting us playing with a lot of pragmatism, although I thought a lot of the football we played under him was pretty awful on the eye.

He did but Burnley, Fulham and Brighton also won there that season, and do I think no home fans also helped us.

Yes, it was still 3 points but we also had some awful home results that season, with Sigurdsson and Richarlison and a better squad than we have now. Yes, he's won it all, but with some fantastic players.

Yes, he has stopped Liverpool winning the Champions League… but he also gave us the 2006 Istanbul nightmare.

I read a snippet of a comment about us wanting to sign Gnonto. The source said Dyche wants to build a team based on power, pace and aggression. Which is what I want to hear.

Couple this with Dyche's pragmatism and honest hard work approach to training, then I can see we will be getting somewhere as a club again.

What I'm trying to say is I want the foundations for sustainable, consistent performances and incremental improvement. I haven't felt that these fundamentals have been prevalent for a long time. I am confident Sean Dyche will deliver it given time.

Money to money, the more the wealthy have, the more they want, pure fucking greed.

Thanks, Carlo.

But hey, it's the internet age. Joe Blow knows more about everything and he's always right.

He was a hope and started well before realising very quickly that he didn't have the star studded players he was used to.

That changed the style. Still, he almost got us into Europe; within one game.

Dyche has surprised me. Despite the stereotypical perception of him, we've played some neat stuff under him so far.

McNeil is transformed and only 23. Tarkowski an absolute rock.

Doucoure flourishing in a more forward position.

It's a shame it came to this with Carlo, but we don't really know the ins and outs of contractual stuff.

None of us make any decisions on the running of the club and neither do most of the Staff.

Moshiri and his so-called friends have done this!

Thank God you said that.

Here's a scenario for you!

Carlo was rightly owed money. Everton weren't living up to their terms of the contract that was signed. Carlo sued to get what was rightfully, legally, and ethically his, and then the two parties, because they both have fondness for one another, came to an agreement.

You may not like the way he left when his mistress Real came-a-callin', but Jesus above the ridiculous reaction is a bit OTT???

And likening Carlo to the Fat Spanish Waiter? WHAT THE FUCK MAN?

😂😂😂

Tar and feather! Kill him! Draw and Quarter! He beat Liverpool! He almost made the Champions League with a shitty Everton squad! Death to Carlo!

Save your anger for the FSW - that gross red who about killed this fucking club, while previously belittling it, deserves all the caustic shit you can throw at him!

The pressing matter of adding reinforcements this preseason to the Everton squad, and setting a direction for the club is priority.

The interim board and chairman, it remains to be seen, how long is interim?

The clock is running, and nothing is changing. Hopefully a momentum change for the better, will arrive soon.

UTFTs!

Now about this statement” Carlo has an enduring affection and deep respect for the Clubs fans and wishes them well and the club the very best for the future”

Take your phoney gestures with you Carlo, enduring affection and deep respect my arse!!

I was waiting for The Guardian, lol.

"Shouldn't we be sympathetic? He didn't win the Champions League this year and so missed out on a few mil bonus. Can't feed his family, poor soul!

Hey missus A, I got an idea. Everton is in the shit. I'll sue them for a few mil. While they're so busy defending FFP and reorganising the board, they'll likely settle out of court."

I rest my case! (chuckle).

Amongst the starting line-up for that fixture (estimates based on current ages 2 years on depending on actually birthdays):

The keeper was 34. Williams 20. The centre-back, Phillips 24. Milner, say no more. Lallana 33. Chirivella 24. Minamino 26. Origi 26.

Curtis Jones, the goal scorer was 18. Elliott 18.

So with only two teenagers starting, hardly a "youth" team. Maybe a second string, but not a youth team no matter how far we stretch the imagination.

Missed opportunity, but we played them at a time when they were approaching Klopp's peak and the system he implemented throughout the club, so they could seamlessly step up.

It's the cup. I've witnessed us lose to the likes of Grimsby, Shrewsbury, Oldham and Tranmere. Choke against Wigan and Liverpool (proper) in a semi-final.

It's football. Anything can happen.

It was 3½ years ago (January 2020). It was a very inexperienced team apart from Lallana and Milner. The defeat was a total embarrassment and imo our worst ever Cup defeat on paper.

We don't know the facts but they have settled out of court so he must’ve had some sort of a case.

I don't think we will see a 10th-place finish for a season or two either.

Regardling the guy himself, my take is that he was promised funds to get more than he could, then never got them, with the mixed bag he had, he knocked them into some shape with just the addition of a few players, got them to the top end of the table and almost into Europe.

Then he had to change playing style because of injuries and our players’ ability. Then came the break-in and the realisation… Calling Real Madrid to get himself out of there, bet the family wasn't too happy after the break-in.

But to call him crap or a dinosaur, he is amongst the best in the world, still. He is used to having quality players. We didn't have enough, and no way we could afford them as a result of pure bad management.

On leaving, sadly not surprising, he raised the club worldwide, put the name of Everton up front in news and profile, names in lights… press were talking about us, players were, we lit up the sky in South America.

Yes, sure he was crap, wasn't he? Bad for the club wasn't he? Context… look what happened after he went. I would have him any day of the week if we could do it again.

Still not exactly a youth team. Second string with their captain present.

I'd give you Grimsby and Shrewsbury over that. Tranmere was humiliating and Wigan. We had a path to Wembley, playing a team that was eventually relegated and we absolutely bottled it at Goodison.

As for him bailing out for Madrid, if he'd had a sniff of the dysfunctional mess upstairs, he would have gone to Scunthorpe.

Sadly, as Christine alludes to, it's business and honouring of contracts.

We've had to pay off countless managers as I suspect it was written in their contracts they would get a dismissal severance package.

Still only Wednesday, still no news about our Chairman. Without wanting to raise temperatures, he will no doubt have one negotiated or under negotiation. He will get a payoff, no doubt.

Carlo felt that it was and therefore we had a court case. The matter has been settled. Move on!

The club was advised it made sense to settle rather than end up being made to look even more stupid in court

Perfectly normal for Kenwright-era Everton.

He was on an outrageous double-bubble contract, and took us to two lower mid-table finishes.

He maxed out the credit card on short term buys and left the place a smouldering ruin after 18 months and £20 million in his sky rocket.

Nothing became him like his final tribute as he was settling behind his desk at Real Madrid whilst we all thought he was out scouting for players:

'I enjoyed my time at Everton but...'

Ancelotti is the embodiment of the Moshiri era. Short-term thinking. Imbalanced recruitment. No long term plan or identity. Drastic overpaying.

We can only hope that lessons have been learned.

All of a sudden, someone in the stands near me, loudly gives him dog's abuse for his mistake. I've always wondered what person would feel the need to do that?

There's about a dozen candidates on this thread already!

Also, I would remind everyone that Carlo Ancelotti has the 3rd best win ratio of any Everton manager ever. Not bad for someone who can only manage elite players.

I genuinely believe that when he asked Moshiri what was his budget for the summer transfer window, and was told there is nothing, he probably realised he could no longer trust Usmanov or Moshiri and walked away.

I genuinely believe he had real affection for our club and our supporters and spoke about how he enjoyed his bike rides round Crosby. A manager who actually lived in the City – I can't remember any other Everton manager living in the City.

Also, his house being burgled with his daughter inside would have had an impact on him.

Then Benitez came in to clean up the mess, no more signings, except for buttons, and he gets dogs abuse off the majority of fans while attempting to do the club's bidding while being let down by the players who stopped playing for him.

Dyche has come in to manage the club with an even worse squad than Benitez and Lampard had, that became even poorer with injuries and a suspension but, after miraculously saving them from relegation, some fans think he needs replacing.

Carlo never had a magic wand, he said, neither did Dyche but performed what he was asked to do with a weaker and smaller squad than Ancelotti. It would have been interesting to see what the Italian would have done with last season's squad if he taken over on the last breath of the transfer window.

While what you say is undoubtedly true, the reality is that this is a fans' forum for people to opine and debate and given enterprises, including football clubs and especially ours, tend to be less than transparent these days about what is actually happening, then if we can't speculate in this vacuum, we might as well close ToffeeWeb down.

Regarding whether Ancelotti could have got the same results as Dyche with the squad he had, is unknown. But this is the side under Ancelotti that went to Anfield in 2021 and won 2-0.
Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Godfrey, Holgate, Digne, Doucoure, Gomes, Davies, Richarlison and James.

Most fans don't rate Keane, Godfrey, Holgate, Davies and Gomes yet Carlo takes this team to Anfield scores 2 goals and unbelievably don't concede. So maybe Carlo didn't have have a better squad than Dyche.

The only thing that "appears" to be indisputable is that Everton owed Ancelotti money, which they failed to pay. Ancelotti decided on taking the legal route and the club then settles with him out of court.

That would "tend" to lean towards the club knowing they were onto plums and in the wrong BUT there've been many cases where an innocent party settles out of court in order to not besmirch their good name.

STOP FUCKING LAUGHING!!!!!

Ancelotti will have managers, agents and no doubt a legal team that all take their cut of any deal for their client.

I can't see Ancelotti worrying that we haven't paid him x amount. It will be his legal team and manager that look after the small print.

Haters got to hate – it's in their nature.

Some Blues, including those in power, seem to believe that everybody else is wrong and they're right regardless of the facts of the matter. This world view has got to change, because this pettiness and poison is damaging the club, and it certainly doesn't reflect the club that I knew when I was growing up.

You pick one game out of Ancelotti's time at Everton, a game we won 2-0. If you check up, Brian, I think you will find that Liverpool failed to win at Anfield in that period about six games on the trot as well as the Everton game.

I'll pick one game out of Dyche's run last season with, on paper, a much poorer team than the one who played at Anfield, Everton's 5-1 win at Brighton not forgetting Brighton were one of the surprising teams of last season, I'd rate that a better win against a team in form than Everton winning at Anfield against a team in poor form.

Brian, I think the Liverpool win stood out because we hadn't won there for 20 years and it was a derby game and I was very happy with that win but not as happy with the vital, very vital win at Brighton.

The Italian has been a great manager over many years at different clubs, I don't think he was much cop at Everton. Was his son part of the problem? He did a lot of the work according to reports of what went on at Finch Farm, maybe while Carlo was riding his bike around Crosby!!

Enough Is Enough, Kenwright Out.

I think you know what I meant, but also disagree – supporters at any club can change things.

Director of Football, Director of Medical Services, Head of Recruitment and development, and Manager of Scouting and Operations all leave within 4 months of working with him, during which time team performances and motivation collapse. We are still recovering from his disaster show today.

If Benitez had been recruited by Liverpool as “Agent Rafa' to destroy us, he would have been regarded as a masterful hire.

Ancelotti added to the mess created by Kenwright over many, many years and carried on after the real mess was cleared by Moshiri, who allowed the real culprit to carry on running the club.

As for Ancelotti being a dinosaur, I think that's wrong; dinosaurs roared and fought, the Italian just gave a shrug of his shoulders while he sipped his coffee on the sidelines.

I am a fan of what Sean Dyche has done since he has been here, and he is the only thing that makes me feel positive at the moment.

Yes, the Liverpool game was only 1 game but Ancelotti frequently played Holgate and Godfrey in a back 4, and as I said in my earlier post, you might disagree with his style of football but I repeat he has the 3rd Best win ratio of all our managers and compared to the 2 men ahead of him on that list he didn't have the war chest they were both given.

He only signed 2 players, James and Allan. I don't know who signed Godfrey and Doucouré in that close season as, when he met both, he said he didn't know much about them.

The trophies he has won before and after he left says what a great manager he was and now gets the Brazil job. I think of all the managers in the World only Guardiola and Mourhino get close to him.

And to hear Evertonians slag him off is a real head-shaker for me, and to think that some who slagged him off thought Lampard was a decent manager.

Views as far apart as the poles of the earth.

I would think that 'speculation' would acknowledge the doubt and uncertainty involved here.

Yet so many Evertonians (salt of the earth, don't ya know) can come on this thread, knowing nothing of the circumstances, characters, contracts and conditions as Brian @64 says, and still decide Ancelotti is a prick and a cunt and much more – because yes, freedom of speech gives them the right to do just that.

I'd expect a lot more balanced assessment and yes, reasonable speculation... but when you 'speculate' so strongly to then draw a totally unsubstantiated conclusion to justify such guttural reactions... no sorry, I find that despicable.

On Ancelotti's win rate, that is based on a very short time and, not sure about this, check the team's home losses in the last season he was here I think that might be one of the worse seasons for home losses in Everton's history, I know it wasn't very good although he had a lot of wins away, one of them one of the worst performances I had seen in a long time at Arsenal when the only effort on goal, a pass, yes a pass from Richarlison was diverted into his own goal by the Arsenal goalie.

You might agree Brian that I acknowledged the Italians great record as a manager during his career just that he wasn't much cop at Everton.

Well, to give you your due, you write interesting posts, mostly the reverse of other posters and slightly negative but you are consistent.

Barry, I don't know if you are a religious person but if you get to Heaven I don't think you will like it, you'll definitely find something wrong with it – that's for bleedin' sure!!

I think it is pretty much implied that when someone posts, it is merely their opinion, where clear and obvious facts are lacking (which will be most of the time with us). I'm not sure we need some pseudo legal rider to provide that clarity.

To give you an example, take Dave's post @74. That is speculation but (to fit in with your desire for clarity) it has, in my opinion, a decent probability of being true and that anyone who knows the inside story at our club has a good chance of getting settled if they sue for whatever breach they can think of. I can if you like give you the reasons for me believing this, but they won't constitute fact, just me interpreting events.

Incidentally, I think you are responsible (partly or wholly) for ToffeeWeb and it seems like a good moment to say you do a great job and it's much appreciated.

I don't think Ancelotti added to any mess. Benitez did though.

I'd doubt any of us would do anything different if we are owed money by our former employer.

Not the first or last time a manager or player will have a contractual dispute with a former club or employer.

Not really news… onto more unimportant stuff, like signing a striker and getting Kenwright out of the club.

When I get to heaven St Peter will say "Glad to see you sorted them, boss, welcome home".

For the sanctimonious and literal who need every freakin' nuance explaining - I'm joking, I know I'm not God.

Ancelotti would have been brilliant as Moshiri's first manager. I'd say we'd have spent that war chest on better players who would have been better suited to his management style.

Instead, we got him when we were skint and desperate. With the tools at his disposal, we got a very expensive version of keep it tight and nick one.

Moshiri is one of the new breed of thick owner who likes a big name manager. Hence he hires Benitez, years after he was a manager of any significance. Timing again, amongst other things.

Now we have Dyche. I'd have big money on Moshiri not wanting him, even though, for me, he suits us right now more than most managers around. I'd have hired Dyche the moment Ancelotti left, but he fell into our lap later, without the need for compensation and kept us up with a squad markedly inferior to his predecessors. Timing again.

My only worry this summer is that Moshiri gets a rush of blood and bins Dyche for another big-name mutterer, who will blame a host of lacks for his own incompetence.

”I'm joking, I know I'm not God”

Are you sure Barry?

Agree with much if not all of that. But I think you can take some solace from the reality that we appear to hold little appeal for even modest players.

Take Danjuma last January. Hence a 'name' manager seems unlikely, especially as everyone knows we haven't got two brass farthings to rub together.

Money matters, it's business. Winning trophies is the expectation of very few players and owners.

The biggest win from winning trophies is the extra revenue, growing your brand reputation second.

I do not blame anyone for wanting to earn more money or move to a club to improve the chances of winning trophies.

Unfortunately we continue to fail both on and off the pitch.

Well done, Carlo, if he's entitled to it, well done him. He's a winner!

The only ways I can see us being attractive are to get cheap gems from the lower leagues here, or find younger non-Premier League players who are happy to use us as a stepping stone before we sell them at a profit.

Of course, the next issue would be keeping a good team going while we do this, but right now I'll cross that bridge when we get to it!

John @57. You always get that "you're shite Everton" supporter. They normally kick in after about 30 seconds because we haven't taken the lead after 30 seconds and you need paracetamol to make the earache go away.

Brian @64, sensible as always. I always think you are a less emotional version of me and talk more sense!!

Steve Brown, I remember the 83 winter of discontent when the natives were not happy. Although we have had some scrapes since then the scenes under Benitez at Brentford and then the final straw at Carrow Road were very toxic. As toxic as I've witnessed.

I was at both matches and actually felt for the players as they faced the music when really it was being directed at the board and the manager.

I keep saying we can't keep blaming managers. They can't all be wrong. Change has been happening, but we still need that push over the line to reset this club.

Tickets on sale for Switzerland but only to season ticket holders with a certain amount of points. I know it's a small stadium and small allocation (500), but that will be sold out in no time.

Dave Abrahams, Brighton away was special and the atmosphere electric. But I have to admit, my two picks from last season were draws. Simms nabbing that late equaliser at Stamford Bridge (Branthwaite the season before). And then that last gasp equaliser at Wolves. Words can't explain or describe the feeling when that went in. Leicester wasn't bad either.

Sheer emotional exhaustion had me sleep all the way home.

I see where you're coming from but the idea is similar to our transfer budget – basically a rumour.

"Hear, hear, the two Tonys.
Contracts should be honoured and none of us know the details"

I remember a former manager of ours getting abuse for honouring his contract.

"We don't know the facts but they have settled out of court so he must've had some sort of a case."

But it could be that the Club's insurance company would have to cover the settlement plus costs if it went to court and decided it would be much cheaper to make a deal.

Been there, done that.

He did a massive amount of damage in his 6 months in charge, all of it predictable based on his personality and control needs.

"But it could be that the Club's insurance company would have to cover the settlement plus costs if it went to court and decided it would be much cheaper to make a deal."

Doesn't your reference to "settlement plus costs" assume Ancelotti had some sort of case?

"Carlo? Bill here. Now we have settled, can I ask a favour. Can you buy Richi, loan us him for a year, and then he can come back and replace Karim in 24-25?"

many a true word spoken in jest, can you at least confirm you haven't got wings!!

You have been absent for a while. Meet up for a game next season?

He knew that Moshiri had lied to him about the backing he would get in the next transfer window. He knew we'd broken the rules.

He knew Usmanov was in danger of being sanctioned (which is where our money came from). He knew that the squad was a mess and had actually overachieved under him.

We weren't that many points away from Champions League with Carlo (9 points – all lost against teams at the bottom of the table?)

Pointless calling him out for making what has proven to be a brilliant decision. We were screwed anyway even if he stayed.

The club is rotten to the core and, if I was working there now, as a lifelong fan I would walk in protest.

Carlo walked too but he's not a lifelong fan so doesn't need to kick off and make a big scene. Just walk away from a total mess of a club that had deceived him and get back on with what he does, which is winning trophies with big teams.

By all accounts, his son loved the club and the fans and wanted to have his hat in the ring to come back.

That Liverpool side was by no means a 'youth team'. I was at the game and we should have been out of sight by half-time, missing chance after chance.

The second half was a precursor of things to come as it showed up the lack of leaders in our side and our inability to come from behind.

Question 2: What are the implications of that amount on our 'transfer' budget as far as incoming strikers are concerned?

Unless we know the answer to Q1, Kenwright can, and probably will knowing him, make up his version of the truth on the impact of the case and we will be no wiser, as usual. Smoke and mirrors once again!!

Now it looks as though MSP is happening, is it too much to expect a change in this respect? Probably, unfortunately, not.

How much did Everton pay Ancelotti when he left, nothing about this latest pay-off? Was it quite a large sum? Enough for him to easily take a pay cut when going to Real Madrid.

I won't argue about the second and third paragraphs because I don't truly know about those points, except to point out that I don't think we had over-achieved under him throughout the season.

Under him that season we won 59 points which was pretty good. We won a lot of those points in the first half of the season and we finished the second half of the season with the same players.

In the last 14 games of the season, we only scored more than one goal once; the last five victories of the season we won 1-0, we won three games out of the last 12 matches.

It could be said and it seems to me that Ancelotti knew how poor the squad was and the limitations of a lot of the players a long time before the end of that season and he certainly played a very tight defensive and a very poor team to watch in that second period of the season.

I think he made his mind up then that he couldn't get anywhere with this squad and the even poorer back up from the owner and chairman and decided to get away and Real Madrid was an opportunity he couldn't turn down.

He took the money, I don't know how much, but didn't honour his contract, and again I don't know what was in the contract, but it looks like the people who gave him the contract cocked up (again) if it allowed him to walk away without his contract being subject to compensation for Everton FC.

Most people are quite suspicious in this respect as far as the truthfulness of what is said from 'up top'. We usually are no wiser and never, however many questions are asked, seem to be told the full truth. It certainly seems that way anyway. I personally think we ought to be told and by doing so the Chairman would demonstrate that he intends to be open and transparent going forward. This would at least show a willingness for change and improve communications. It would be a start that would be welcomed.

Whatever your view, and I am not defending Carlo here, he was proved to be in the right or we wouldn't or shouldn't have settled in his favour.

Who said we settled in his favour?

Proves nothing.

Everton could have settled because the cost of fighting this action was just too costly.

Generally breaking a contract by mutal consent would cancel certain agreements, otherwise why wouldn't the club have held him to the contract? I would have thought some negotiation would have occurred, so we lose the manager and have to pay him.

All I'm saying is Dyche ends up leaving for PSG around Christmas I'm happy to step in after my performance on Football Manager. Managed to keep the club mid-table whilst trimming the weekly wage bill by £300k over my 3 years so far. I'll update my Football Manager diary this evening.

If Carlo files the case with all its attendant costs then only he can withdraw the case. Presumably he did that after getting satisfaction at Moshiri’s expense. I’m not a lawyer, I never even watched LA Law so slam that if deserved.

Oh yeah, and hire that Greg to do some Zoom training sessions with the squad over the summer.