Fulham and Forest weigh up move for Doucouré

Maybe the end of the season unless we need his wages to fund an incoming transfer.

Do it and take a chance on the January market. Take one of the unwanted benchers of a CL team as a last resort loan if necessary. I would bet on a reasonable target coming in.

I'd sell him if we can get a younger replacement, he's been very poor for the last 18 months.

His distribution can be awful, but if he’s used properly his strength and energy make him a hard player to play against. Make us hard to play against please Frank!

I'd be disappointed to see him go personally.

Used correctly and surrounded by the right players in the right formation, he can be effective. Possibly the closest we've got to a box-to-box midfielder as it stands. Put a leash on Gueye and it might work. Let Onana be the enforcer. I can see him becoming that type of player.

I still don't know how Doucoure pulled that goal out of the bag against Burnley, but I can still see it bursting the back of Gwladys Street net after me screaming for him to lay it off.

Expert me.

Headless chicken sold in Turkey season. Bye. Good luck.

He's fell down the pecking order since Onana arrived so, if we can get a fee and his wages off the books, it would be good business I think. Also, he has always seemed a player who doesn't play well ‘cold’. He needs a run of games to get up to speed where he is effective. So as a back-up, this doesn't play into his effectiveness as he'll always be rusty.

If we can reinvest in someone who can add something to the team it makes a lot of sense. Maybe it points to Thelwell and Lampard having their eye on a new midfielder coming in that they have quietly targeted?

I think he's pecked himself down the order. No-one would sell the player he was for the first half a season here. I'm not sure who would want the player he's been since (Fulham aside perhaps!).

Either he has a long-term injury or he has completely lost motivation.

We have a remarkable knack for buying players north of £20m and then releasing them for free (or nominal fees) in about 3 years or so.

- Schneiderlin
- Walcott
- Bolasie
- Tosun
- Allan
- Sigurdsson

Soon Doucoure, with 6 months left on his contract.

Next up, Gomes, Gbamin and Mina.

Barely a single penny to reinvest in the squad from an outlay of well over £200m.

That's some going.

I think we have a good track record for consistently the worst recruitment in world football since Moshiri took over.

Robert,

There is an option to extend it 12 months, but will that just prolong the inevitable? £20 Million does seem to be the cursed figure when it comes to our signings. I agree with Tony Everan in that he seems to take a long run of games to find his form. Tough to offer that in the Premier League.

Robert - the common denominator in all of them is that we purchased them all in their mid to late 20’s and they demanded peak contracts, so we couldn’t shift them.

When we invest in youth and they don’t work out, it’s usually either peanuts invested, or we get a significant amount back - such as Kean, Lookman, Vlasic and that guy who never played for us. There’s also the occasional cheap one who comes good such as Holgate or DCL.

Even looking at Lampard buys, the one I’d say we’d struggle to shift is Maupay, and, centre backs aside, he is the only one who falls into the big money big contract mid to late 20’s signing.

It’s the sort of transfer policy you’ve suggested for some time - it shouldn’t be difficult to work out that it’s significantly better than shelling out big money for average “senior” players.

He got a run out during the second game in Sydney, several times picked the ball up from deep midfield & ran through the heart of the opposition like they weren't there, the way he used to at Watford and the reason we bought him.

Ultimately though, there wasn't much end product by way of a defense splitting pass into the box, and that was against a very limited albeit stubborn opposition.

I don’t dislike him but he’s not good enough and been a main part of the team who were exposed for being mentally weak. Let him go. Probably do well elsewhere.

Yes, Kevin, age absolutely is a factor. He is also a classic example of the heavy premium you pay for Premier League experience.

A good athlete but a very mediocre footballer - as Paul # 13 describes nicely.

There are countless players of his standard across the lower leagues and world football who would have cost half his fee or less.

If we're going to buy average players, as we sometimes need to, then they might as well be low cost.

Without doubt Everton have some players are under performing or just don't fit into Lampard's plans and getting rid of them will free up some finance to get better replacements.

Having said that we don't want to bring in overpriced World cup players who have had one or two decent games ala Vasic from the last World cup.

It won't be easy at this time of season and loanees might be the short term answer.

However, Everton are woefully short of a class striker and unless that is resolved first and foremost it's going to be uncomfortable till the end of the season.

his passing is woeful. lose possession 50% or more each time he gets the ball.

his energy is decent when playing a specific style to suit, but with our weaknesses at holding possession, I'd be happy to cash in and invest in someone who could provide more for what we need.

Due to his age, if a reasonable fee is on the table I would be tempted, but I was hoping to see him play along side Onana once or twice. Fed up of watching Everton midfields get overrun by physically stronger teams.

Time to let Davies go for me. He has had more than enough chances now. Get some cash whilst we can.

Mina's gone in June too.

I don't know if it's something about Everton but we do seem to get players who start well like Doucoure, Davies, Gomes and maybe you could add Gray and Gordon, but it seems as though somebody has told them to cut out some stuff for fear of losing possession which quickly becomes try nothing at all and then square and backward passes only. Wasn't it said that under Martinez, not that I meant to go that far back, that pass completion took priority over everything else.

It's all very well getting rid of these players, but we seem to be replacing midfielders on a lot of money who can't defend,attack or pass a ball, with midfielders on less money who can't defend,attack or pass a ball.

Will we ever stop going round in circles?

Mina is always gone. Be it a hamstring gone or a calf or thigh muscle or even his back is gone.

We have a glut of central midfielders and centre backs. It is not then surprising that a hack with no footi to watch links one of them with any club that needs shoring up.
Garner is on the Mina list for some time yet according to reports. So we will need to retain at least a couple of cover players to get us going up the league and on to that FA cup final. But a priority has to be a central attacker who can hold up play. We may therefore have to cobble together the right sort of transfer/loan fee and wages that will entice such a player. It may mean we'd have to use the occasional academy player as cover. What a shock that would be.

Like all our midfielders. He makes life difficult for his team mates because his movement is unintelligent. Its been the case for years. They all hang each other out to dry.

Doucourie is a galloper and will score a nice goal every blue moon, but 99% of the time he is like our other midfield players. He offers nothing going forward and nothing to his team mates.

If we don't break this mould we will continue to be footballed to death... by virtually everybody we play.
I would not sell him to Fulham, but I would offer him as bait to TRY to land a more creative type.

Were in deep deep shit. we need creativity and a striker/s, but everybody knows it. I don't other EPL sides lining up to lend us a hand by giving us what we need

I don't think it's a case of cashing in. In fact I can't imagine we'd get more than about £2m for him, maybe nothing. His contract is up in June.

Same for Davies and Mina.

It's more about us getting rid of the liability to pay wages than making any money on sales.

We got rid of Allan for free on that same basis.

That goes back to a comment I heard on the Slaven Bilic deal years ago Robert. It was quoted as being Everton's last role of the dice of being a big club at the time. Obviously we've rolled a few since 1998!!

In the context of the time, a big move at £4.5M and a bit of a coup. Classy centre back, but his Everton career was marred by suspensions and injuries if I remember.

The point is that it's not the transfer fee that kills clubs. It's the contract and wages over several years that hurt, which is to your point. I'm probably stating the obvious.

Indeed, Danny. And it means just 2.5 years after spending the best part of £50m on two central midfielders - both could leave for nothing / nominal fees before even completing 3 years with us.

This is happening across the side.

There's no stability with such a high turnover of players (8 new signings in summer) - so we are constantly rebuilding the team but with no sale proceeds to reinvest in new recruits.

What will pay for the players we need this summer to get us back into the top 10?

- tall, mobile CB (unless it's Branthwaite)

- holding midfielder with a good range of passing

- creative / goalscoring midfielder

- wide forward with genuine goal threat

- a striker with the potential to be genuinely better than DCL (assuming we buy a DCL stand in next month).

To pay for this we probably have to sell Pickford before his contract starts to run down. So that means we need a new goalkeeper too.

5 or 6 new players with whatever we can get for Pickford, the fee for Moise Kean and whatever we scrape together for Michael Keane.

That's not a bad assessment Robert.

We have a holding midfield with a great range of passing in Lewis Warrington.

The dilemma being is he ready? Can he make the step? U23s (or is it now U21s) is a totally different game to senior football. Then in line with many conversations about young players, we'd need to be patient, not expect him to play every week and expect inevitable dips in form as they develop and progress.

Without sounding starstruck from the World Cup, I keep mentioning the Croatian keeper. At Zagreb, so could have been value for money, although I suspect his stock will have increased after those performances on the World Stage.

Danny, I've watched Warrington for the u23s for a few years and thought he looked really good. Better footballer than Onyango and Price (they just have superior physical attributes). However he's 20, playing in the 3rd tier and has no England youth recognition at any level.

He'd need to look like Busquets playing at that level if he's going become a first teamer for us any time soon.

Much more likely now that he's a Ledson, Lundstram or Forshaw type. A good player, but not the answer.

Come on Fulham, we have got rid of an astonishingly dead, piece of deadwood, please take this bird brained idiot off our hands

I don't particularly want Doucs to go. Like Tony said above we just don't use his attributes correctly.

At Watford he was a box to box midfielder that runs with the ball and tries to get beyond the striker.

For us he has played holding midfield which highlights his passing deficiencies.

I honestly think at some point this season we will have to start going long and fighting for scraps so he may come in handy during the run in. He is also cover If we get an injury to Gana or Onana.

Would he be any worse than Mauphey playing up front?

The list of expensive flops that Robert listed above is also driven from the fact we keep sacking managers. New manager brings his players in and can't get rid of old players. Outside of the big boys we are probably the highest payers.

Come the end of Jan if we don't sign anyone I expect the same cycle of new manager and new players come the summer.

The sooner the clowns at the top move on the better.

Although injury issues have affected Doucouré over the past eighteen months or so, I am not convinced we have sufficient strength in midfield to let him go at this stage without a replacement. As a combination Onana, Gueye and Iwobi have hardly made a compelling case to be the automatic first choice trio in midfield. We have yet to see enough of Garner to know if he is of Premier League quality. The next few months are all about survival. Doucouré could play a part in achieving that.

On the other hand if we can secure a significant transfer fee as well as remove his wages from the accounts perhaps a suitable replacement can be found to improve the squad for the longer term.

We have a penchant for limited footballers Gana and Onana being the latest and unless it changes the eventuality of the championship draws ever closer. Doucoure moving won't change things one iota

Barry @33,

When you say 'average players', most of the players mentioned in this thread are full internationals which probably puts them in the top 1% of professional footballers.

Getting the right balance and tactics is the thing we continually struggle with.

Barry #33,

Onana has talent. He's young and has just come into a dysfunctional side and needs a bit of time. Like Mykolenko and Patterson before him.

Rob #34,

Tactics are an issue but Barry is right: the players we have are poor. Player for player, we are worse than the team(s) Moyes built. We are worse than the team Martinez left us with. We are worse than the team Silva reached 8th place with. Our squad depth is better than last season but, without Richarlison, our First XI is worse.

Unfortunately this looks more like the odd jumble of players who stunk out the lower reaches of the Premier League pre-Moyes in the 1990s.

Robert (35),

Onana has got talent. Potentially, at the moment, that talent is being shown very infrequently. He is out of the game for long periods just lumbering around miles away from the ball.

I understand a young player, new to the club, playing badly, but still showing plenty of enthusiasm and trying his best to get involved in the game. Howard Kendall was a prime example in his first few games for the club but that enthusiasm earned him the time off the fans to prove what a great signing he was.

At the moment, Onana is offering less than nothing that is beneficial to the team and, in the dire state the team is in, he is not worth his place in the team. We need all hands to be giving their all for the whole game, not 15 minutes or so.

Maybe there's been too much expectation on Onana, both from fans and management.

Perhaps he needs a bit of time out.

I see rumours about Kudus from Ajax are resurfacing. But also the player being linked with Newcastle and even them.

The major problem we have had for the last couple of seasons either on the defensive side or the offensive side has been in our midfield.

To let an experienced midfielder like Doucoure go would be a mistake, unless we have someone in mind to replace him who would be a big improvement.

Any transfer finances we have have will have to be used on a goalscorer, and if the signs are Calvert-Lewin will be okay for the rest of the season, preferably on a goal-scoring winger and provider.

I like Doucoure when fully fit and he has been no worse than our other midfield players over the last few seasons.

I agree with Allan J, I don't know what they put in the water at Finch Farm but players seem to start off well with us and then quickly tail off.

Onana looked much better for Belgium than for us although it is early days.

We definitely need an injection of goalscoring players though and even Iwobi, for all his improvement, is not the answer.

Please god, let this rumour come true. He needs shipping out asap. The lad's a half-arsed donkey.

I was really pleased when we signed him from Watford. He scored goals and never got injured. He comes to us and guess what?

Get rid!

Doucoure's game requires some space and a partner which Silva probably understands and can accommodate.

It's the best thing for the player since he is not versatile and needs a stable system with explicit responsibilities. He simply isn't an option for anything Frank is trying to find in his future system so take the chance and switch up.

A decent player who lost his confidence when the squad became unstable from injuries and general risk aversion. He doesn't play the tight spaces well which is all you get with our play out of the back.

Doucoure can be very, very good on his day, which are increasingly rare occasions in the last 18 months. It's the simple passes that he seems to spew, often the players receiving his pass gets it on his weaker foot, the advancing player has to readjust, and so on.

Fine margins but on scale, in most games, it's costing Everton good opportunities to advance and get to good offensive positions, and often resulting in conceding goals, like vs Leicester at home.

But Doucoure in fairness is not the only one in the midfield to be guilty of poor passing, and by his enthusiasm, he may be on the ball more than other Everton midfielders.

Onana is still learning about decision-making and is as frustrating at times, as is the rest of the midfield. Gana, hopefully will come back refreshed and playing with confidence.

If Isaac Price carries on playing the way he is, he can become a squad player this season as he is taking up more offensive roles in the U21s and is playing very well. He could be close to the starting 11, there's only one way to find out.

If Everton do need funds, then sell Doucoure but not for selling's sake if there's no plan to replace him.

There needs to be the killer instinct in the whole team, starting with Wolves.

Be careful what you wish for, and who knows with Everton, what can happen, and surprise you.

Getting back to normality and ready for Chrimbo, and the stadium is looking very impressive, it will be majestic, as I was working in the area, yesterday.

Make a new walk from the City Centre, and also from the North End, The Blue Walk, EFC, etc, but loads of scope to make BMD a fantastic stadium and match day experience for Evertonians, and all visiting supporters.

Plenty of reason for optimism, but more importantly a win v Wolves will be a good start to the Chrimbo fixture list.

Doucoure would probably do okay in a team that used him properly. He has great energy and is decent when arriving late in the box. As others have said, we've wasted him as a DMC but he could do well further forward for a direct team.

By contrast, Onana has been played too far forwards. He's very decent defensively, hard to dribble past, but he's not yet up to much on the ball. For Belgium, he was played deeper and looked better.

One of our big problems is how quickly we lose the ball up top. Neither Gray nor Gordon seem able to keep hold of it long enough to link play and keep us in possession. For lack of a better idea, I might be tempted to try Iwobi further forward (he's comfortably our most creative player); maybe you could try Doucoure in the AMC role but I doubt it.

Problem as I see it is, based on the current squad, write down the number of goals you expect them to get in a league season. I am struggling to get to 40. As soon as we concede, it feels like we ain't got anything to come back.

Gordon, Gray, Calvert-Lewin, Maupay, Iwobi, Gana, McNeil etc – you're struggling to see much over 20 goals.

Onana to me is a bit of a liability in defensive midfield. He's been caught on the ball a fair amount, and that's going to cost.

Doucoure was getting selected but, since Frank came, he must not look good in training which is where Frank's backroom team make the selection decisions.

I wasn't overly upset when we got Doucoure from Watford, but must admit he has been very poor when playing for us since, except maybe the odd game, which is hardly the model of consistency. I also thought, considering his age, we paid way over the top for him, nothing new there then.

A trait of Everton over the years is to buy players from other teams who have done well when playing against us, but never, or rarely to produce the same once onboard.

I am hoping for a win against Wolves on Boxing Day but don't believe it will be a stroll in the park either.

Derek

Happy Christmas mate. I thought Docoure had a good season for Watford 2 years before he joined us when he was playing as an auxiliary striker.

His last year at Watford was poor so I was surprised we signed him, much less for so much money considering a year before we'd been linked at which time his agent publicly said he was too good for us.

He was good in his debut v Spurs after which he's generally been poor. As Robert Tressell said, there are lots of players like him at lower levels but somehow we spent a fortune on him.

I'd like to be rid of him but, given the lack of depth in our squad with Garner injured and Tom Davies as the only other option, I'm not sure we can release him unless Bill finds the Arteta money and brings someone better in.

He's never been the player that I saw at Watford, apart from on his debut at Spurs and the first six games under Benitez.

That said maybe it's Everton and our mentality.

"How dare you think you can run forwards!"

We've made many players over the years into sideways Bobs that don't run and can't pass.

Nevertheless, I think Doucoure will leave soon; a bit too soon to say Onana is that far ahead of him, however – another one that doesn't seem to like running since joining us.

I think there will be a mass clear-out in this window with a longer-term view being taken. Most of the players linked with moves are either continually injured or are not first-choice starters.

There appears to be a move to bring the younger players, like Price and Mills, into the squad, I think, to become back-up players.

My belief is that we could see the following sales:

Keane: £8-10M
Mina: £5M
Holgate: £5M
Davies: £2-4M
Doucouré: £10M

As squad members they would be replaced by the following:

Godfrey returning from injury
Branthwaite returning from loan
One new signing
Garner returning from injury
Price
Mills

As none of the “selling” players is a guaranteed starter for various reasons there is sufficient quality in the players mentioned to replace them in the squad.

Hopefully this would free up both wages and give some funds to hopefully buy Kumas from Ajax and Sarr from Watford.

Russell, unfortunately we will get nominal fees or nothing for Doucoure, Mina and Davies due to their contracts expiring. Holgate is probably staying put (as may Doucoure now that Garner is injured).

Keane may get sold for about £8m.

There might be a further overhaul of the squad in summer.

We just don't have the quality coming through to rely on youth for our back up positions.

The only way to raise any real money is to sell Pickford – as he's the only player we have who would genuinely interest a top 6 side.

It appears Villa are willing to sell Coutinho. 30 years old. Any thoughts, folks?

Coutinho? wouldn't touch him with a 10ft pole. If he wouldn't / couldn't put a shift in for his mate slippy - swerve

Paul @51, it wouldn't surprise me if Lucas Digne was another that Villa will try and get rid of in the next 12 months.

For a senior professional footballer, who plays in midfield, Doucouré is the worst passer of a football I've ever seen. There are 10-year-olds who I've seen play who pass the ball better.

He either under-hits his passes, playing the ball behind the receiving player's run, or hits it like a rocket, or plays it to Mr Invisible. Terrible player, only surpassed by Michael Keane.

Mina is actually made of glass. Good player, who lasts 45 minutes every 3 months.

We could lose Keane, Mina and Doucouré and be none the wiser of their absence.

We need an attacking Midfielder. This has been evident since losing Sigurdsson. Kudus would be ideal, but very unlikely now.

Swedish striker from Coventry is being linked again today.