Back to the future

I guess it's a generational thing.

I wouldn't accept the Moyes-style years. Plucky little Everton.

I don't remember when I started supporting Everton. I just always did since I can remember. My earliest memories are the mid to late 70s. No choosing. Just Everton.

My standard are the tales of the 60s and my own experience in the 80s. I apologise to the lost generation, but that is my marker for this club, one of the greatest institutions in English football.

Never drop your standards or expectation. Always believe in the impossible. The title says it. Back to the Future.

Forty years on (yes 40) from the dark December of 1983 when we were staring down the abyss, who knows what can happen?

Dyche is doing a really good job in difficult circumstances. And he is no Sam Allardyce. We play some good stuff as we demonstrated against Tottenham and were unlucky.

Spirit. Forever.

Good one Rob.

I barely remember the teams in the 1960s but the team of the mid-1980s, will live with me forever and so I cannot accept anything less than trophies coming our way.

Your assessments of the various managers is spot on in my opinion and the recently departed manager at Nottingham Forest would not have been a bad shout either.

Happy New Year to all!

The only thing that I would beg to differ is that under our NSNO motto, the Moyes era (notwithsstanding the season we finished 4th) should only be viewed as a Pain-Killer that got a lot of Evertonians to sit on their laurels.

A lot of Evertonians don't know much about the mid-1980s success under Kendall, but just go to the Wikipedia and read about the stats, the tables & the Champion Trophies during that time: the Moyes era is not to be compared to that period of time by any means.

IMHO, until our beloved club has achieved something comparable to the likes of Real Madrid, Barca, the Mancs & Bayern (look up against whom that we won the 1985 Cup Winners' Cup, the equivalent of Europa Conference Leagues, at worst, nowadays) should we be satisfied.

With BMD going to get us closer, why stop dreaming AND dreaming BIG?

It's the endearment for Everton Football Club, that keeps Evertonians going.

There's a long way to go but I believe that on the playing side, Everton is on the right track.

The Spirits of the Evertonians, past, present and future, ensure that this Football Club, will will always be very special.

All have a great Boxing Day!

It didn't look like decline because the club averaged around 7th place in the league for a good few years, but football is about winning, so it was during this era that the people involved in Everton Football Club, began to fail the history of the club's illustrious past.

A new dawn is upon us so hopefully Sean Dyche, can get Everton competitive in the cup competitions, and finally give those younger Evertonians – who have definitely stood the test of time, and more – a trophy that they all deserve🤞

I couldn't stand Moyes but I understand your point of view; he gave you a better team to watch than you had been used to. Although I have to point out that, while Everton had little money to operate with during Moyes's spell, he was one of the highest-paid managers in Europe.

The rest of your story most of us will agree with, we all suffered the agony and embarrassment that you did, thanks to the way the club was run.

Sean Dyche coming in has started, and hopefully continues, the slow rise of Everton FC to where we once where. Every now and again, we would win or contest for silverware and produce some wonderful and exciting players to applaud and savour with plenty of poor and barren seasons in between.

Thanks again for your post, Rob, I hope in 10 years time you will make a terrific post of how the team has won that silverware again in a most majestic way.

My opinion, as you'll surmise from the article, is that Sean Dyche is an updated David Moyes, in every respect. They hold similar footballing philosophies, they don't tolerate bullshit, and their teams are honest, hard-working, tough. I do accept that view of the older generation, who have watched this movie before, and recognise that the leading actor has limitations, and will not be able to win the Oscar.

For now, I'm content with the direction of travel. As a fan I've known humiliation, a period of respectability, and then a time of hubris which brought another long stint of humiliation. Right now, I'll take the respectability.

Until we get another John Moores, or we get purchased by some savvy consortium, we're not getting back to the top. If we're very lucky, we won't get asset-stripped by the crooks we're about to be sold to. With that in mind, respectability is probably the best we can hope for. For now, anyway.

I want that trophy.

I have about 6 years on you as being an Everton fan but, apart from the cup win, there was nothing much of note in that time.

It's been fairly depressing throughout but there's a few reasons for optimism:

1. Dyche is genuinely good.

2. Thelwell is also performing well given the financial constraints.

3. The Kenwright era is over.

4. The Moshiri era is almost over.

5. We will soon have the best stadium in the city (and one of the best in the country).

6. As Moyes and Martinez showed, you don't need a fortune to build a very good side – you just need to shop in the right markets for the right profile of player.

7. The support is almost unbelievably good, given how hard the past 35 years have been.

8. We have the makings of a very good side. With the addition of a high-quality Number 10 and a right winger, the first XI would be excellent (albeit the second XI is still ropey).

9. The club seems to care about the cup competitions again.

10. Before too long, we can reasonably expect European football again.

Under Moyes, I was fed up with the continual lowering of expectations. Sport should be about aspiration – not gracious defeats. He is at it again at West Ham. The man is good at his job but very dour. We are well shut of him. If Kenwright had got his way, he would have been back here instead of Ancelotti. That last sentence sums up the then-chairman.

I don't see Dyche as being anything like Moyes. He is a positive person, he builds the players up and credits them for their performances. He has surprised me with his tactical nous.

He is getting the best from what we have rather than trying to enforce a playing style on players like Lampard did.

The club is a shambles with Dyche being the shining light holding it together on the pitch. We need some stability off the pitch which I don't see happening with 777 Partners.

UTFT.

As you rightly say, he comes across as much more positive, and I also feel he is a lot less egotistic than David Moyes.

However, so much of the other stuff is up in the air, will the points deduction be reduced or removed?

Will the new owners be interested in the football side of the club, or will they interfere in order to keep all of their own plates spinning?

I think the club is entering a tipping-point period, where the loyal and long-suffering Evertonians, may start to question that apparent unquestioned loyalty to the club as they've given so much as a fan-base, yet seen very little in return.

If Dyche can keep producing a team that tries to compete and plays in such a way that is defensively sound, yet able to create chances, then many will see that as progress, but the true test not just for Dyche but for the club, is can something be built that will stand the test of time or will we continue to see the revolving door approach, where key players are sacrificed for the financial good of the club, but to the detriment of building a team.

We hope that 2024, sees a more stable environment for everyone connected to the club to work in, and that the football stuff is left to the football people. Less noise and more poise might see us progress significantly, once the task of remaining in the division is accomplished.

Happy New Year to all ToffeeWebbers and we'll continue to march down Goodison Road until it's time to leave our cherished home.

I'm proud to have followed this club all my life. The only time I've been to Wembley is the ‘84 FA Cup. (I didn't turn 10 until August of 1984!)

It's a love I've always had, this devotion to Everton.
Weekends were spent at my grandparents, down hill by a few hundred yards from Shaw Street – I could see Prince Rupert's Tower from the bungalow I stayed in.
#UTFT

I'd have to admit that it's more or less shaped my personality. Fatalistic and defiant to the last (honestly, I think Everton, both as a fanbase and as a club, have always been at their best when we've had an enemy to defy or defeat - in punishing us so grievously, the Premier League have done more to unify the club and the fanbase than anything else has since the early 90's).

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I have no problem admitting that Moyes has his limitations. When he was given the "big job", he was unable to handle the expectations of the club or the fanbase, and he was quickly found out. I disagree with the take that's he been found out at West Ham, however. He's built a good squad with meagre resources, largely funded by the sale of their best homegrown talent (the man's entire career is a rerun, apparently). The porn kings have seldom put money into the club. Their fans, in the meantime, have reached the point we did in the years before he left us in 2013 - grateful for the respectability and the progress, but wanting more. I hope for their sakes that their owners are more sensible in choosing his successor than the man who chose ours.

Being of an early '60s vintage, I measure Everton as a major power tainted by an unhealthy scarring caused by Liverpool's empire emerging at exactly the same time.

Their growth and our deficiencies since 1970 made the entire experience a monumental disappointment. The handful of seasons when the sun shone culminated in a Merseyside cup final which I knew was the acid test. Beat them and the Shankly-inspired life blood would drain away being their first real setback since promotion from the Second Division.

Of course we fucked it up and eventually vanished into the ether and they gained strength.

People don't like to admit it but, for some of us, success will only be total when we've killed those across the park.

If this present form holds through the injuries we may be at an inflection point here that offers more than what was possible with Moyes. Davey did the job no doubt but the style was quite static and even with addition of some quality players that style was fixed. Dyche has shown an ability to build here whereas at Burnley he never had the chance. The way Everton is unfolding new ways of playing and finding ways to win gives me considerable optimism not just for the football but also for the club overall. The grass is good.

Your post number is an Omen.

16th March. Mark the date.

We take them.

And I'll still stand in the Arkles for my Grandfather and look them in the eyes.

Every single one of them.

I have been supporting the club for over 70 years and, whilst there have been successful periods on the pitch, off the pitch the management of the club has been poor. I was offended when Benitez called us a 'small club', but I think on reflection he was right. And this will make restoring the club's fortunes on the pitch all the more difficult.

It's great to see our present manager and his team working wonders with a limited budget but we have a mountain of debt and no realistic way of resolving this situation, and it seems that our most likely new owners have no clear plan either.

So, as we approach 2024, more than ever we need people with a clear business plan and deep pockets to steer the club away from years of reckless mismanagement. Only then will we have any chance of bringing back success on the pitch.

Your undiminished optimism and hope together with all who join under the same banner represents the true lifeblood of this club - never lose it.

Curmudgeons like me are nearly lost causes - nearly.

Good call on the Dyche/Moyes comparison. Dyche really is the second coming of the ginger.

We just have to hope that he doesn't have the limitations which ensured that Moyes would only be a very good manager rather than a great one.

I'm optimistic as far as Sean is concerned... looking forward to the New Year.

Been quite a while since I felt like that.

Moyes's first few seasons were a bit of a roller-coaster.

David Moyes was a very, very, very lucky manager and wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of seasons during any other era, imo.

Without the points deduction, which we could claw back, we'd be 10th knocking on the door ahead of Chelsea and Bournemouth.

Expectation to compete and succeed.

If Sean does that albeit in a different era, he'll be here as long as he wants to remain although one of the monied clubs would probably tempt him away.

Hopefully he'll do much better but stay longer.

Hope you had a good Christmas, Tony.

Your grandparents must have lived close to where I spent my first 20 years at the bottom of Everton Brow.

The reality was that, like now, the club didn't have a pot to piss in, and Kenwright had an irritating habit of not putting any fucking money into the club. Which meant that we kept having to sell our best players.

The reason for that is the total crock of shit deluged on us by Moshiri and those who pulled his strings.

It'll take years, colossal good fortune, and skill and integrity in the boardroom, to shake off the depths we've been plunged to.

In the meantime, I admire and respect the way Dyche, his staff, and the players are just now displaying a professional attitude despite the vicissitudes we fans have had to put up with for decades.

Oh, and by the way, Happy New Year in your private lives folks!

No? … Keeping us in mid-table and getting into Europe, and the odd semi and final was complete failure in some fans' eyes. I don't remember you moaning back then, oh and to get into a semi you need to win a quarter, which we failed to do last Tuesday. (Sorry, Sean, I really rate you.)

Not Moyes's biggest fan but get real on here some people.

They were the best years of some fans' lives.

Do you remember Havelock Street? All built over now?? Steep as fuck.

I used to cycle from the Old Roan just to try to ride up Havelock Street. Cobbled as I remember it. Out of the saddle and therefore with the back wheel hardly making any traction with the road.

Not the best years for me but Moyes did us proud.

A lot of managers after couldn't hold a candle to the man!

But they were the best years for anyone under 36, and some of those years were decent. Yet plenty on here dismiss those years as irrelevant and a waste of time, that is so disrespectful to the fans of that time who enjoyed those seasons.

They weren't “good times” as Kenwright tried to sell, but they were better times than the last 7 years,.

No Everton manager should stay by delivering six Top 7 finishes and the sum total of nil trophies in 12 seasons.

Well TA, with a couple of cup runs, it's about average for Everton on a 12-year cycle. Not too shabby given our history.

In 2018 Dyche matched Moyes whilst at Burnley, with a team created by way less spending.

Still, if some want to revere Moyes-under-Kenwright it just shows to me how much that shithouse (and I have no gripe with Moyes) has to answer for in causing our demise for decades.

Repudiate In Perpetuity.

I'm 37, I wish.

I'm very fortunate to have watched Everon under Howard Kendall but dismissing Toffees because they are "younger", haven't seen success, and are willing to accept shite.... sorry not for me.

That's you Tony...

I'm using that...Ta Ta

Not a single away win v the then Sky Four.
An FA Cup defeat at Shrewsbury who finished bottom of League Two.
4th place tarnished by a negative goal difference following a 7-0 humiliation at Arsenal.
A feeble FA Cup Final defeat.

I could go on….

I started watching Everton in the Spring of 1984. So does that make me lucky or unlucky? I dunno…

The 5-1 defeat inflicted on the Hammers in the Quarterfinal of the Carabao Cup at Anfield proves it.

He always bottled the big games.

Moyes served his purpose for several seasons and then it got frustrating for a lot of supporters. There were a couple of seasons where we played some decent stuff, but then more when we were not easy on the eye in my opinion.

I've long given up blaming managers. It's down to how the club has been owned and managed. But there was a point when his time was up. In hindsight, he'd taken us as far as he could at the time with the resources available.

I don't think Moyes helped himself with some of his language. The "knife to a gunfight" quote preparing for a match against tonight's opponents still grips me and epitomised his and Kenwright's plucky little Everton. And the manner in which he departed is still shrouded in controversy for many. I'm talking about a relative here, but he didn't seem to come over as being totally honest about how it came about.

The capitulation against Martinez's Wigan and that semi-final. We frequently froze on the big stage when the expectation was there.

It's a generational thing. They are my youngest brother's best Everton years. For me, I eventually got frustrated as my expectations were different.

Anyway, I wish I hadn't been drawn into a conversation about West Ham's manager on match day. We've got Sean Dyche, the team and Manchester City to think about. Incidentally, Dyche has surprised me if I'm being honest. We may not dominate possession, but we play some good stuff, especially when we go forward.

I would never dismiss young Evertonians, Brendan. My son was born 5 months before we last won a trophy and is as passionate as me. If anything more sensible.

When I'm on my travels watching the Blues, I am amazed at the young supporters driving the team on, starting the singing and bouncing in the concourses around the country at half-time. It makes me smile with pride.

It's easy for me as I know what we've had and believe we will get back there. They've had nothing yet they keep going and believing. Total respect.

You did very well to get up that street cobbled or not, how often did you attempt those rides?

He took them to a couple of other streets around there not as severe as Havelock Street but still tough going.

I never understood the bit about us punching above our weight either, because I'm sure we usually came around seventh, and had the seventh or eighth highest wage bill around this period?

I thought Moyes left us a good team, and I also thought he was very unfortunate to be without some of his best players for the cup final, but do you think he would have been given longer than two years if he had been serving at Everton, under any other era?

I don't, but maybe I just always had it in for Bill Kenwright? This man changed the narrative, and although he always spoke about Everton in glowing terms, Everton football club had always won at least one major honour for most of our existence (except after the Second World War) which is a bit more than what you said about twelve year cycles Jeff?

Brendan, I grew up always expecting Everton to compete and was never really interested in just making up the numbers. Ta Ta, was something that I knew the mancs were going to be saying to David Moyes, very quickly, because although most shrewder people could see Sir Alex, hadn't left David, the greatest squad, I think Moyes forgot about football, the minute he got the Man Utd job?