Consultation and Trepidation: Awaiting the New Crest Options

It is said that a camel is a horse designed by committee. I just hope that the current camel on our shirts is thrown in the bin as it has no character whatsoever.

Our badge should be as near as possible to the one we had previously, it oozes class and quality.
For me the shape of the shield is important and it should definitely not be the fat backside look of the current one.
The Tower is vital but not the current cartoon version.
Not too bothered about whether or not there are laurels and or 1878 but nil satis nisi optimum is essential as it indicates history, class and whilst we have not quite lived up to it for a while it also has a meaning that we can hang on to.

A sceptic would point to DK as an example of this regime allowing the fans to vote but this issue is completely different with a starting block of huge unrest amongst the local and global fanbase over the Fisher Price badge. Hopefully the outcome from this consultation together with the removal of the previous questionable odious incumbent and replacement with Alan Myers will please far more than it upsets.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, particularly as I haven't yet seen a fan-produced version that is the finished article (I include mine in that - I'm not much of an illustrator) but it raises the stakes for the options KF produce.

It stands to reason, though, that they will inevitably come up with something *similar* to one suggested by a fan simply because of the limited number of available configurations.

I was lucky enough to go to one of the face to face meetings myself, and although frank and differing views were exchanged, I appreciated the effort from the club. I submitted designs, my own personal choice was a slimmed down shield design, an imposing tower circa 1930s with the angled design and fence, removal of the yellow replaced with black. There was a 75 yr old gentleman there, detailing some wonderful players he'd seen, he spoke of the romanticism of the angled tower design and its importance to him with passion. Others disagreed. Its incredible to think of the wide ranging views, younger fans wanting 'The Peoples Club' for example, which caused me to spit out my free oat biscuits!! Haha

I have found the debate fascinating, I only wish it had been like this from the start.

1. Colour - wasn't royal blue!
2. Clutter - too many elements
3. Font used for Everton: too modern, and clashed with the old-style 1878 font
4. the 3D effect (fade - an attempt to make it stand out, but looked crap when reproduced.

New badge attempted to address these, but several major mistakes:

1. Yellow - nuff said
2. Fat arse - caused by
stuffing Everton into the shield
3. Retention of the awful font
4. Worst of all - the bastardisation of the tower - of all the crimes against design this was the worst. 5. The use of black as shadowing - repeated to mistake of the old badge in trying to make it 'pop'.
6. The determination to simplify into a unified design that works for all occasions is plain stupid: ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL !!

When it comes to successful logos - less is more: FACT.

Think McDonalds, Apple, Ford, Vodafone.... If it isn't legible and recognisable even when tiny - like an icon/avatar on a social media feed read on a smart phone, its simply too fussy. But simpicity doesn't mean it has to look like clipart.

We should select a unique and definitive core icon (the tower, inside a shield, with laurels would be my pick) around which different elements can be placed as space and the medium allows.
The idea that it has to be contained within the shield is total bollocks.

Think NIKE and PUMA - always the swoosh / cat, and sometimes the word as well, no need for a frame of any kind.

In our case, having a hierarchy of elements makes sense: sometimes just E F C (shirt), sometimes Everton (but with a classy font, please) sometimes with 1878 and sometimes with NSNO in a scroll as an underline

MilkyOne's effort, while popular, is not very good: Don't mean to cause offence, but the laurels are too big, the design looks flat and lacks weight, and the wordings above and below draw circles of different sizes with different centres, which is a design shocker.

Finally, the designers have apparently been briefed to draw up an original work, but they'd be daft not to look at all the fan versions - there are good elements in many of them. A smart designer will use cues from the best shield, the best tower etc and work them into a unified logo.

Hopefully it will come out right and there will be enough to keep most people happy - but I won't hold ny breath: if the brief is shit, the design will be shit - that's my problem: if they are still telling the designer that everything that can't fit inside the shield must be dropped it will not work.

Re-instate the old one. Job done.

We will still end up with something a little bit better than the present dog's breakfast, but not by much.

"Evertonians are Born Not Manufactured
We do not Choose; We are Chosen
Those who Understand Need No Explanation
Those That Don't Understand Don't Matter"

And having some "contrived corporate logo" is wildly inappropriate

I admire our neighbours for adhering to their "complex" crest, good on them, farting about with it simply admits to chasing money rather than planting the banner and declaring that we will hold our ground, for we are Everton

I think some of the fan designs have been really interesting and, whilst I don't like all of the ideas, I commend the creativity.

I also found Peter Leslie's comments above to be interesting, informative and well articulated. I agree with much of what he's said and definitely feel there is merit in the idea that bits of a logo can be added or removed depending on the specific use. Starting with a simple and recognisable main logo, why can't other facets such as the motto ribbon be added in certain uses and dropped for others?

My personal feelings for any new badge are:

1. Shield - I've always liked it and it has for me always been symbolic of Everton. I learnt to draw it at an early age and covered most of my school books in it. I like some of the circle designs but they do ultimately look very similar to Chelsea's badge once the colours are also taken into account. I also agree that at least the main design features should be contained in a shield, circle etc, without trying to cram too much in.

2. The Tower – Another must for me. I think a slightly shorter or stumpier version is more representative of the actual tower. I think the ones in Lyndon's circle badges are a good compromise and I like the slope/fence. I don't like the beehive style and it was, for me, the biggest contributor (along with the fat bottomed shield) to the current version looking like a pre-school effort.

3. The Wreaths – Having grown up supporting the club from 1982, the wreaths have been an ever present, but I would be prepared to compromise in the interest of de-cluttering the badge. I have seen some interesting versions in fan designs that I have liked. Perhaps a wreath could be incorporated, but I would not dwell on it too much if it was dropped.

4. Everton – I am conflicted on this. My preference would be for simplicity. EFC in a nice font (I think the only other is Exeter City in all the 4 league divisions that begins with E). However, I appreciate that unlike Nike, who are instantly recognisable worldwide by the swoosh, we do not have that benefit and from a branding and recognition point of view, putting the name Everton on the badge makes sense.

5. 1878 – I think Lyndon makes a good point about this. It has more importance to us than those outside the club, so IMO whilst it denotes our history (as one of the oldest clubs) and has a place on the badge, I agree that it only needs to be small.

6. Colour – I'm not feeling the yellow, certainly not on the current badge, but then I hate that badge so I'm possibly being swayed. It is possible that a better design incorporating the yellow might draw a different response from me, but for the moment it's royal blue/white for me.

I am realistic about the chances of all of my wishes being incorporated in the designs that come out of KF and I'm prepared to have to accept a compromise or a badge that I don't absolutely love. As long as it's not a badge that I instantly hate (and I have seen many fan designs that fit this description). I too wait with trepidation.

My tweaks largely incorporated your and Milky One's design:

My preference would be still to use the shield... but that does not mean I completely agree with what you've said. I've obviously used the yellow and gradient (albeit I can see that a flat image may be better. Much is down to personal preference, and I appreciate that the club can not please everyone... but the this year's thing is very ugly. As you also said, you would have thought the club would have seen the reaction to the leaked version and back-tracked.

Out of those shown in your article, I'd rather not see 2 or 3. I've filled in my questionnaire, and hope that the club come up with something suitable.

Alternately leave the 1878 where it is on the bottom of the first shield and then just replace the content between that and EVERTON with the tower and wreath from Lyndon's second submittal.

That would make the shirt badge and the motto can be added under the shield on other devices the way they have with the new logo.

Peter Leslie (815) says a lot that I wouldn't disagree with, but when he says "When it comes to successful logos - less is more: FACT" in a thread about our crest, I think he's confusing things.

Our badge (any club's badge) is NOT a logo (FACT).

A logo does a different job.

If I'm driving at night and starving, a big simple yellow 'M' on a red background does the trick and in less than a second tells me 'McDonalds' (so keep driving and wait until you can get to a chippy).

We have NO reason for our crest/badge to have to have this instant recognition factor.

We haven't got that much going for us, but one thing we DO have is our history and that should absolutely not be fucked with or chucked away (particularly when there was not one complaint about it to start with)

Forest and Bolton both 'went modern' and now have badges that look like they were designed by some kid on a graphics course in a provincial art school in 1977 - can we not see this?

I have no fear of the combined elements (laurels, tower NSNO) and the stylish MilkyOne design shows it can be achieved in a way that is class.

Personally I don't believe in having 'Everton' on there as that is actually the job of the badge, to say Everton (ie: when people see the combined elements of the badge, they know it's us - and if after 135 years or since the 30s they don't, I doubt football is their game)

The three/four in the shields are all horrible, amateurish, disgusting gash while the circular ones, though a vast improvement are...circular.

By the way, if I was a teacher and a kid asked "Sir what does 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' mean?", I'd say well, let me give you a perfect example...

Given the fact that I am fully aware that I support EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB and you all do too, who is it that continually wants the word EVERTON in massive bloody letters on the badge.....it looks sodding stupid.

I like the old badge designs from the Hafnia era but I am also a big fan of some of the the circular badges above, the heraldic shield with seperate wreaths has had it's day in my opinion at least but for god's sake drop the ridiculously huge Everton....

I bloody well agree with every single sentiment

Who in the name of all that's decent asked for this to be fucked about with ?

Let me just share an example of what happens to something wonderful when some clown decides (on behalf of ALL) that something needs titivating

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/11/spain-eccehomo-cecilia-gimenez-restorer

Dear sweet baby Judas what a fuckin' mess !

My submitted version is circular as that was the only way I could see preserving all the desired elements while keeping everything contained.

But if a heraldic shield can be produced that is elegant and encapsulates our history and class then I'll be all for it.

As others have said, they are very brave to try this. I just hope,however, that in the rush to get rid of the dreadful badge we are stuck with this season, we don't accept second best and end up with something worse tha the old badge.

I don't buy the idea of a design having to be easy to replicate. It has never been easier to print or reproduce an image than it is today, in the digital world. It's not like they have to carve the design out of wood or lino.

"Do you think we needed to make a change to our club crest?"

99% of respondents say no... Save everybody a lot of time and effort.

Everton

So before some soft twat thinks there may be a few bob to be had by fiddling with that like "Wicked Uncle Ernie" in The Who's rockpra "Tommy" I want to go on record and state that this is NOT for fuckin' debate

Was it Catterick who said "we don't need a badge on our shirts everyone knows we're Everton, we play in blue and white"?

It's nice to see over here in Thailand that the new company that has the rights to broadcast the EPL games is using our badge and not the new logo in their studio backdrops.

(I know this isn't about the badge, but it does have a passing connection with the topic under discussion and I didn't know where else to put it.)

I believe our shirt colour and badge is already instantly recognisable within the UK by any football supporter by just the tower within the shield, so I think they should be retained.

However, here in Colombia (where they are football fanatics I might add) when I go to play they shout "hey, Chelsea" until they look a bit closer and see the word Everton.... then they understand.... I can just imagine the hassle in explaining every time I go to play that it's not a Chelsea shirt, it's Everton....

For the international market, it is essential to have the name, otherwise the whole effect is lost, I'm just that English bloke in a blue shirt, probably a Chelsea supporter! I do NOT want that... if I'm to fly the Everton flag I need the tools to do it with!

Yes. The majority of our support is on Merseyside. That’s the problem. We need to get away from that mentality & be taking steps to change that if we want to ever be able to compete with the other clubs in the league of ’our ilk.

Incidentally, All the clubs in the "Top 6" barring maybe Spurs, which itself is debatable, have a higher ratio of fans outside their own territories. To acquire new internet hitting, shirt buying, football rating recruits from all over the world it is counter productive and actually plainly ignorant to assume they will know who’s badge it is when it comes shinning out of their packet of Premier League stickers just because they haven’t been saturated with it from their friends & family like me or You. When Ross Barkley is interviewed after a match in which he’s just after scoring a Worldy Winner against Utd on Fox, Al Jeezria, ESPN Italy, Sky, to name a few. In front of a worldwide audience.

Our name has to be on that star in that moment like Don King is with his arm around the latest boxing star straight after a bout. On that star’s chest. Unless you are from the Liverpool area, or are the son of someone who is, there is a good chance it will take a star player for you to identify with the club as "people identify with people". It’s like the next best thing to an organic or native route to being a blue. We need to create interest by having star players first but, once the attention of the new fan is got, the world ’EVERTON’ must be part of that new landscape.

But that's just me.

Number 4 looks very classy to me. Just my opinion you know, nothing more nothing less, nothing to get hung about. If you don't agree I still respect you as a fellow Evertonian, even if you are wrong

It's a handsome distinctive lightweight number.....the badge that is.

The shield with it's heraldic gimpery and association with armoured hooray henrys on old nags might seem a bit tame.

In my mind, it seems that the PL is going the same way as the NFL, and I wouldnt be surprised to one day see teams changing their names/badges frequently to try and tap into the markets that will ultimately buy the products. Sad, but true.

whatever the chosen new design is it cannot be to busy in the current media age it has to be simple and clear....you only have to look at the major clubs badges in europe.

I was looking at alternative designs the other day and couldn't help think that by losing the scroll and keeping the two laurel wreaths and original tower in their normal positions and then incorporating 'Everton' and maybe 'Nil Satis...' within the badge would just look odd, like a cheaper, conjested version of last season's. I've not seen one design that looks good.

The only ones that look half-decent are the ones with a single Laurel wreath with the old tower inside the wreath. It's not my preferred choice, I would like a return to the 1991-2000 version, but in the blue that is on the current effort with a white outline... but seeing as they want everything in one shape then I have to say that so far they look like the best options.You never know... maybe Kenyon Fraser will produce something similar to the old badge that has a bit of style about it... but I can't see it.

Although the club have made (most of) the right noises as regards fan engagement, the painfully tight time scale makes me wonder exactly how much influence fans' ideas will have had on the proposed range of designs. Would it be cynical to suggest that this consultation process has been partly a placebo? I would expect the designers would have their range of designs at least partially developed by the time the consultation closed.

Fingers crossed they'll be good AND popular!

But, of course, that's just me and I'm sure others would love it, which just goes to prove what a risk the club are taking in doing this. That said, I do share your suspicions over the timescales. You can't tell me they didn't design nothing until Monday morning this week. My guess is they started the moment the announcement was made about the binning of the current monstrosity and they will just use the survey results to match their designs to wht has been asked for. You only have to see that NSNO was instantly announced as being part of the we badge.

Guess it will all unfold in the next eleven days......

As for your comments on the club's design process - my thoughts exactly! I'd guess the consultants may have ten or so ideas already partially developed, and the three which most closely reflect the results of the online questionnaire will be presented for the vote. If the designers have got the talents & understanding to produce something which everyone likes then I guess all will be forgotten & forgiven in due course. I dread the repercussions if they produce three designs which no-one likes!

I think the shield is the part that is hardest to accommodate as its an awkward shape. It's also hard to tear yourself away from as the shape is unique to Everton, in football terms anyway.

I'm veering towards the disc and even though it looks a bit Chelsea and also Villa and Man City in the 70's and 80's its the only way to accommodate the laurels, motto, tower, 1878 and name Everton.

I wondered about arranging 9 laurels ( to celebrate 9 league titles ) in a semi circle around the tower with nil satis nisi optimum curving around the lower half of the circle.

There's a lot to consider, it's not as easy as you would think, which is why I think that the amateurs who produced this season's effort made such a hash of it.

Put a small 1878 just below where the laurels meet (same place MilkyOne placed theirs)

Then a NSNO ribbon below.

Done.

(need the angle on the tower imo - any flat bottomed alternative could be anything from a beehive to a cookie jar)