Martinez: Howard will leave a great legacy at Everton

This could either be
1. Robles stays in but we have to appreciate Tim for his legacy
Or
2. Howard comes back in and as this may be his last season we are all expected to support him for his legacy regardless of performances

It's crystal clear we will have a new keeper next year. We will just need to wait and see if Roberto thinks it's Robles or goes looking for another signing. The smart thing to do of course would be to give Robles the rest of this season to prove he deserves it.

Martinez is spot on here. If anyone can't see that then you need to take a hard look at yourself in the mirror. It is the same with Osman, there are a lot of Osman haters out there and for the life of me I can't see why.

Howard isn't what he used to be, times are changing and he has certainly cost us a few games. Ten years though... a lot of hard work put in by himself on the pitch ( saving us at times which when he does / has done people don't consider it) and off the pitch he's a great leader and ambassador for the young ones and the club ( I don't mean Rik Mayall R.I.P etc )

Fans have every right to voice their opinion, I'm not saying Howard was or is world class, but he DOES NOT deserve THE HATE that fans are giving him. I tell you what, Stones has been at fault as much as Howard this season... where's his hate?

We are Everton and we should get behind every player that walks onto that pitch, in form or not.

By the sounds of it though, Robles may have the number 1 shirt now, and he deserves his chance to show us what he is really capable of.

3-0 once again today... I hope :/

Martinez is at fault here. He left Howard in when he should have dropped him, spoiling the end of his time at Everton..

I agree Keith. I just think it is quite sad that a lot of fans out there slate Howard like there is no tomorrow.

Martinez is right that Howard should be remembered fondly but is not helping that happen by continuing to play him on reputation rather than form.

I agree. Tim has been a good servant to the club (I don't think he is hated by the way).

Martinez has allowed Howard's legacy to be tarnished by playing him when he was clearly past his best. Whatever pressure Tim may have applied, he is notable best judge of his own form and Martinez should have been more decisive. Indecision is one of his big failings.

There are parts of what Bobby says that make sense. And other parts that don't.

Tim was generally very good in his first 8 seasons. Very good. No question.

However since the start of the 14/15 season he has been very poor.

For supporters I don't think this is about short term memory, it's about current and for almost two seasons now continued form.

At what point does the goodwill a player has built up over the years run out and it becomes okay for fans to criticise without being accused of short term thinking?

As an example, Graeme Sharp has represented Everton for a big era at the club and given us lots of great memories but no one is suggesting he should be picked on current or recent form.

And that's the bottom line, current form.

Don't pick anyone because they were great years ago.

Like so many professionals (massive egos) Tim probably overstayed his welcome by a season or two.

After the world cup, and all the applause, he was never the same player. Let him swap roles with Robles - FA cup goalie, and let him play the last game at Goodison to give him a good send off.

P.S. don't like this new format too much. What happened?

Colin, why would you let him swap roles with Joel, for the FA CUP?

Howard has had a decent Everton career, and I have respect for him playing top level football, whilst suffering from Tourette's, but surely we should be picking our strongest team, with only one chance of winning something left?

Howard is obviously an inspiration to many, but for a man to play ten years in Everton's first team, I'm surprised at what little affinity I have for him.

Agree with Roberto here. Overall Howard will be remembered as one of the better goalies at this club.
However he should ensure that the fans are not left with the impression that Howard is selected no matter if he is the best goalkeeper at the club presently. Don´t put him straight back into the team if Robles has done no wrong and we´ll be fine.

I think as a person he's been loyal to the club and he should be remembered for that. As others have said its Martinez's fault that his reputations being tarnished by playing him when he's clearly gone as a keeper.

I just hope that Martinez picks Robles for all games, including the FA cup. If he's going to still alternate then I'd actually prefer to keep Robles in the cup side because that's the only chance we have of winning something.

As for Howard the goal keeper I think he's been above average and that's about it. He's never been a top goalie and I won't be looking back and thinking what a player. It's a pity Moyes didn't have the money at the time to buy Joe Hart from Peterborough.

I don't think any Everton fan needs to be told how they should remember Howard's ability as a goalkeeper, we will all have our own thoughts on that.I imagine they will be from poor to very good, I never have been impressed by him, never thought he was better than average, I have seen him have excellent games and some that were an embarrassment to watch.

I never thought of him in a personal way, he was just another player until this season when he has let himself down with his attitude to the fans and his thoughts about his ability, that's my opinion anyway.

Without saying anything about Howard, "one of Everton's greatest goalkeepers" shouldn't need a concerted effort of warmth and appreciation from the crowd. Southall isn't recognised as one of our best ever because the gaffer told the fans to celebrate him, he's recognised because he was a great keeper and made it impossible for anyone to disagree with that statement whether the loved him or hated him.

I have to agree with those who say Martinez has been the chief architect of Howard's downfall in the Fans' eyes. Remember two or three years ago when Joe Hart lost his form and had a couple of real mares for Man City? Instead of being picked continuously on reputation, (he was England's #1 after all), he was dropped and it took some time for him to win his place back. Instead of acting in a similar manner as soon as it was plain for all to see that Howard's form had gone below standard, Martinez played him constantly, and such, left him to make more mistakes and alienate himself from the fans more and more with each passing game. If he'd dropped Howard sooner, there would be more chance of him being remembered with fondness by the fans. Instead, most will remember the recent past, (only as good as your last game as they say), and see points lost, penalties conceded, flapping at crosses and an inability to command his six yard box, never mind the penalty area!
I don't think any of us hate Tom Howard, (or John Stones), but as many people have pointed out in recent threads, our defence has improved significantly without the two of them playing. Stones has maybe been thrust into the limelight too soon and certainly isn't the finished article yet, so perhaps needs more work and not be considered a shoe-in for automatic selection for the rest of this season.
Howard needs to bow out gracefully and I wouldn't want to see him as our cup keeper either. One flap and we're out! Any blame for the current situation surrounding Howard must lie solely with the man responsible for continually exposing him to fan unrest, disrespect and at times, potential ridicule. Certainly not fair on a man who has played for us for ten years. Martinez needs to be decisive now, as never before to prevent further fan unrest just when he seems to be pulling a decent starting eleven together.

It way be just that he's getting older and not as good Brian.

But aside from that I would like to discuss Martinez's culpability for the Syria crisis.

Agree with Ian #1. you can always read between the lines when a quote like this comes out mid-week. Just hope he means the legacy starts now, not from the end of the season. You really cant imagine Howard starting the season with us next year can you?
If he and Stones are fit today, it might just be the best bench Everton have ever had. Christ, what a squad Martinez has at his disposition! Why are we not in the top four I ask?

He's been a great servant and ambassador for our club. He genuinely supports us and has raised our profile in the US. Great goalkeeper in his heyday and a good man. I will remember him fondly and wish him all the best.

I HATE him....he must go...boooooooooooooooooo....out out out...... :)

I know he's been here 10 years, and been a good servant, but I disagree with Martinez saying ' he was one of Everton's greatest keepers '. He wouldn't lace Big Nev's boots, or be mentioned in the same breath as Nigel Martyn.

Whilst he was a decent keeper in his first few seasons, but I fail to see where all this loyalty come from.

This club has made him a very wealthy man and he's not had any competition for his place for most of those 10 years, so why would he look anywhere else.

Still, he doesn't pick himself and he should've been taken out of the side middle of last season when he suffered a chronic loss of form.

Liam it is about balance and being an Evertonian we look after our own. Tim has played a great roll in keeping Everton in the top flight and building something gradually over the last ten year, just like Moysey, Leon, Tim C, Phil Nev, Hibbert et al ....

He deserves our respect and warmth not castigated in a way which disrespects all that effort and commitment.

We also get the benefit of him being an ambassador after he has gone which helps our club.

I don't hate Howard, but I can't remember the last time he was good in goal with us. He was bad all this season and wasn't great last season either. It was the managers fault for tarnishing that legacy that he's talking about. Should have been dropped ages ago.
He was a great keeper for us in his prime and it's just sad that what our recent memories are just all negative. Again this was RM's fault.
Also agree that he shouldn't be our fa cup keeper because if he is we simply won't be winning it this year

How can you even write the word HATE about an Everton player is beyond me! We have favourites, and players that we don't appreciate as much. But they all play for the club we LOVE! As long as they wear the blue shirt then they represent the club we support!
I have criticised players here as well, but have never HATED any of them!

Christy #20

I would agree Martyn was a better keeper but when you are talking about Nev nearly every keeper ever to pull a pair of gloves on would pale in comparison. Add West to your list and you have three better keepers undoubtedly.

But after that I can't think of another in the last 50 years. It's easy to forget that he has played nearly every single League game for 10 years in an Everton side that has always been competitive. He sits 18th in the all time appearance list for our club. Whether that makes him 'great' is by the by but at bit like Ossie who will finish 12th in the all time list they have been a pretty integral part of the club for a long time and I suspect will be remembered as such by many.

He has not been a great servant to our club, his entire career has been littered with errors at crucial moments. That's the very reason Fergie fired him out of a cannon, He knew that even with a team full of top quality players Howard was a liability.

Howard didn't become unpopular because he was a poor keeper, God knows we've had our fair share of them. He became unpopular because he's an arrogant man who has always been a better talker than doer.

I would absolutely love the opportunity to accept his invitation to sit down while he tried to explain to me why its wise to stay on his line.
I would be asking him why he thinks he cant fob us off with such shite in an attempt to disguise the fact that he lacks the one essential ingredient needed to be a top, top keeper - courage.

After that I would ask him why he hardly ever makes contact when he rushes out to kick the ball. . .and why does he scoop it on the rare occasions when he does.
I would ask him how he hoped to keep out all those goals that went in down the years while he was in the back of his own net.
I would ask him to talk me through the star jump.
I would ask him why he figured the shite swing every corner they ever get against us right under his crossbar.
I would ask him what he was dreaming about when a Frank Lampard shot that any decent parks keeper in Liverpool would have saved, somehow eluded him to hand Chelsea the cup.
I would ask him if he needed to change his Bills at Half time every time S. Gerrard took a free kick..
I would ask him why he so often got involved in handbags with the little guy only to cower back into his own net when the big guy arrived late.
I would ask him why the fuck he thinks he can tell people who have been watching the game since before he was born that they are wrong.
I'd ask him if he needed help packing his bags, getting to the airport, or paying for his flight.

Legacy ???? Hardy's do a better legacy and that tastes like vinegar

* but not Darren.

Got a hangover Darren ?

Why do you think he's got a hangover Ged? Might seem a bit heavy, but Darren, never holds back, and why should he?

I might be wrong, but maybe it's Martinez, insulting us with talk of a great legacy, that made Darren, give it to Tim. But when he says " HE'S AN ARROGANT MAN", I have to say I agree 100% with that assessment and has got to be the reason, he won't be missed by me.

Arrgghh changes to the homepage and Roberto talking shite, not a good start to the day

I didn't have a hangover this morning. In fact, I hadn't touched a drop for damn near 8 months. Then I stumbled across such plaudits as:

".. we have to appreciate Tim for his legacy"

"..he's a great leader"

"..a good servant"

"one of Everton's greatest goalkeepers"

Now look at the fucking state of me:

Link

I'm with Darren. Never fancied him when he arrived and will be pleased when goes back to the States.

It's sad that a manager has to ask the supporters to stop ripping a player so he can leave the club on a relatively peaceful note.

A player who was good for one team 8 or more years, gets old, loses form, is nonetheless played by his manager and that player gets ripped for it. If I was a player I would think twice about making a career here.

I would jump to join this club as a youngster, develop my talents and get the hell out. Once a player loses form at Everton he is mercilessly slagged. Look at youngster Stones. A run of a few below-par games and he is trashed by the supporters (arrogant, show-off, only thinks about his own ability).

What Martinez is really asking, by begging the supporters to remember Tim's years of service, is for the supporters to stop ripping him and let him leave the club in peace. RM knows Tim's time is up and just wants the fans to stop jeering him every time he catches a cross. Is that so hard?

Looks like a thinly disguised 'I'm playing him today so you have to be nice to him' from Bobby, hope I am wrong.

Why I would think twice about making a career at Everton:

"Never fancied him when he arrived and will be pleased when goes back to the States."

"He won't be missed by me."

"I don't hate Howard, but I can't remember the last time he was good in goal with us." - Really? How about the Tottenham draw away? You can't be bothered to remember any good game by a player who played for you for ten years?

"I HATE him....he must go...boooooooooooooooooo....out out out...... :)"

Yep. Play ten years at Everton but lose your form and holy sh*t*, it's better that you never put the jersey on in the first place.

These are just some on the hundreds of comments ripping Howard this year. It's kind of sad when a player loses form. It makes me kind of angry as well that it costs us points. To me it's disgraceful not to allow for a decent exit for a player who gave much for a club for ten years.

"A player who was good for one team 8 or more years, gets old, loses form, is nonetheless played by his manager and that player gets ripped for it. If I was a player I would think twice about making a career here."

That's one way of looking at it.

Another could be: a player whose career was going absolutely nowhere, considered a 'calamity' keeper by most, plucked from the reject bin at Old Trafford and given a second shot at a top Premiership club who were prepared to put up with the regular cock up's that sprang forth from his locker at vital moments (my personal favourite? The time when he elected to leapfrog over the ball and bounce it behind his own arse against Blackburn, Aug 2010. Only goal of the game, gifted to them by the guy who was apparantly 'great for 8 years') and gave him a pressure free, ten year ride on easy street, as unchallenged number one by signing only bargain basement no-marks as 'back up'.

If I was a player of average ability looking for a good screw, I'd snap your hand off.

Michael if you go onto a thread on Oviedo, it would probably read, REASONS WHY I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY FOR EVERTON!

Lots of people are suffering serious memory loss on this thread. They forget how many games Tim Howard won or saved for us in the past decade. He has been a very good servant and at one stage was one of the top half dozen keepers in the country. Even this season, when his performances have fallen below standard along with the rest of the team, he has been better than 50% of the keepers in the Premier League. Every goalkeeper we have ever had made mistakes including Neville Southall and Gordon West.

Howard is copping flak because of Martinez, and him alone. It isn't Tim's fault he plays. I've shuddered to see him this season and most of last, but the personal abuse is uncalled for.

This thread, and others touching our goalies reminded me that in 1969 Westy was taken to Mexico by Ramsey for a taster tour re the '70 World Cup and was regularly selected in front of Gordon Banks no less! Only Westy could've then said, as he did, "No thanks, I'll stay home boss." He was one helluva keeper for years but his deputy, Andy Rankin, was a top performer too, and Westy was sometimes dropped by the Cat in his favour.

There's a clue there Martinez.

Tony. I read the Oviedo thread when it was posted. I think this comment from there sums it up:

"Brent I had to do something!!! this thread was not a ToffeeWeb thread I think everyone has been on happy pills... It was making me all emotional!!!"

You cited a thread very much unlike all the others which sort of proves my point. I am glad Oviedo signed a new contract and hope he remains injury free. For his sake, I also hope he doesn't lose his form for more than few games.

The blame for this surely lies with Martinez, he is paid to manage the team and if an individual is playing poorly then surely they must be dropped. Unfortunately his blind loyalty to players doesn't help so eventually the crowd have to make him aware that someones not performing and needs replacing. Its not difficult and unfortunately loyalty gets you nowhere in this game you have to be ruthless if you want to be successful.

was my post to subtle for Mr Williams? or does he just rant?

Ian, If I misunderstood your post I sincerely apologize.

I began following football closely about 8 years ago. I am an American and thus had no true connection to any club but I wanted a side to support. There are several clubs with great histories but having Howard between the sticks at Goodison pushed me to Everton over the others. I will always remember him fondly and am grateful for him; because of him I unknowingly got to become part of what I truly believe is the best fanbase in the EPL.

That said, there is nothing he has done in these past two seasons to merit the firm hold he has had on the starting job. I agree with those who have said that Martinez has done a disservice by allowing him to continually produce poor performances with no consequence. I will certainly have good memories of him not only as a player but also as the person who drew me to the blue part of Merseyside, however these past two seasons have not increased those good memories in the slightest.Thanks for the service Timmy but it's time to put away the gloves.

Michael, I'm glad I proved your point. If a player loses his form for more than a few games he is usually dropped, Howard has been the very long exception.

Okay, he has been a useful player for the club. Players get paid huge sums for a few hours work per week so I can't use word 'servant' in this context... but spare me another lecture from RM on what the supporters should think, say or do.

We have eyes and we have seen him have some very good games, loads of good to average games and, increasingly, some really poor games. He doesn't have a 'legacy' – he has a work record... and it's an okay record if he stops now.

Hearty handshake and best luck for the future, Tim. You did okay for us and we paid you well.

Here's my 2 pennieth (or 2 cents since we're talking Howard)

I don't think Howard has particularly got much worse, he is just more exposed under Martinez. For the past decade, I've often thought he was our weakest link in a very, very good defence. There was always a mistake in him that could hand a goal or two to the opposition. The past couple of seasons, we haven't been nearly as organised at the back and that has highlighted Howard's faults further.

Now to the issue of loyalty – what loyalty? It's not like we've been turning down bids for him left, right and centre with Howard vowing to be at Everton for the long term is it? The sad fact of modern football is that there is no such thing as loyalty, it is business and money talks. Everton has made him a wealthy man and helped him become a household name in the states with marketing opportunities aplenty. We owe him nothing, just like he owes us nothing as soon as he is no longer an Everton player. I will wish him the best for the future of course and hope he speaks highly of us, but he doesn't have to.

I agree with posts above that say he is arrogant. This has been the roadblock in me embracing him fully rather than someone low-key and humble like Baines.

#4 that's rubbish Keith. Goalies go through bad patches and you have to stick with them to get their confidence back up. Dropping them can be more damaging, especially to older keepers who start thinking they're finished when they lose their place towards the end of their career. You have to give players time to get their form back. Look at Rooney in recent years.

If Martinez is to blame for not protecting him by dropping him then the fans are also to blame for knocking his confidence even more with jeers and abuse. Which is a shame to watch after his years of service.

This is the issue between the fans and Martinez. He's telling Howard he's the best goalie in the world and the fans are telling him he's crap. Equally he tells Barkley to go out, play with arrogance and take players on but the fans scream at him when he loses the ball and shout him down when he holds on to it too long. Lucky Ross is young and determined to prove everyone wrong but he was at rock bottom playing at Goodison last season.

I'm not saying the fans are wrong because we've all been frustrated but I don't think it's fair to say that Martinez is to blame for Howard's loss of relationship with the supporters

Joe ,

Short memory then. Man City. Clean sheet. Oh wait, fucking Howard didn't score so what a wanker.

Tim has been an excellent servant to Everton over the years and should be appreciated. However Roberto is mixing up his past and present tenses, and undermining Tim as a result.

Having Tim as a substitute during his last season at the Club is not insulting, it is a fair reflection of his age and skill set. For Tim to have fond memories is fine and well deserved, but to keep him in the firing line when he is clearly past his peak, (Idid not realize he was 37!) is just stupid and unfair on Tim, Joel, the defense, the fans, in fact everyone. Best wishes, Tim.

If he has a role as an ambassador, or he wants to move into coaching, or managership etc, then by all means do so with all our best wishes. He can still pull out on occasions.

William Cartwright,

Fair point, and one I have been pushing since last season, that just like most other clubs do, Tottenham for example, the aging goalkeepr is eased out by a new GK over the course of a season and then either retires, goes elsewhere, or is the back-up.
I thought next season would be the one for this based upon Howard's contract status. Problem is Robles is not the answer.

Everton need to bring in a keeper as the starter. Sorry, but I have seen Robles at Wigan and Everton. His lack of quickness, poor positioning (See the goal from Sterling's cross where he is out away from his near post inexplicably and then turnes slowly and chases the ball along an arc never getting there.), and seeming inability to clear the ball anywhere but back into danger with his penchant for poor punches is disturbing.

There are several GK who can be bought, incuding one at Inter and a couple of young ones at Udinese in the B squad in the second league. I would hope not Butland, as his own frailties are exposed when his own defense isn't good and Shawcross isn't in front of him. There are even a few Americans on the radar (Gasp . . . shudder, run Harold, John, Ian, Brin, and Darren, find an old bomb shelter , lock yourselves in and emerge in another 15 years if that happens).

Regardless, Everton need a younger GK as 37, with a few exceptions, is too old for an everyday starter in such a physical league. How in the hell Buffon does it is beyond me.

So it's not a lack of respect – “Respect is a positive feeling of admiration or deference for a person or other entity” – it's more a case that we are all suffering from a form of short-term memory loss? Interesting spin... a bit like David Cameron and his “We have got a really good deal... honest!”

It got me thinking though: where do I drop Howard (did you see what I did there?) in the Everton goalkeepers' list?

So I can just about remember Gordon West and his handbag – no doubt a great Everton 'keeper and I'm sticking him in my top 4 (so let's start this at 1970). I don't have great memories of Andy Rankin even though he made a number of appearances... so he's out.

My early years were blighted by Dai and Dave... I mean one was Welsh (who the hell as heard of a decent Welsh keeper??) and Dave Lawson – where the hell was he going when that RedShite twat lobbed him?? ... so they are gone.

Georgie Wood... what a nutter: ”Georgie, Georgie show us yer whites” Good fun but was he a good 'keeper? I must admit, I liked the guy, and who was there when he ran out, put his arms out wide in crucifix style, shouted “Keeper's!” and missed the ball!!! He then turned round, ran like hell and gathered it on the line in front of the Street End!! He's in.

Paul Gerrard, Myhre, Richard Wright... ouch! And lots of others that made one or two appearances before departing to pastures new. There was, of course Nigel Martyn – now he was a very good 'keeper (I think he only played 3 seasons?) I'm sure there's a stato to put me right. A good and dependable 'keeper, I even have a picture of Goodison Park he signed and gave me hanging on the wall. He's in.

Now, Tim Howard has been around a good while, certainly he's a good shot stopper. The problem for him is he's playing on longer than perhaps he should... not his fault if he's picked... but we only go to watch Everton win.

If you make an error that costs us the game, the fans will rant but will forgive. However, if you keep making mistakes and costing games then they couldn't give a rat's feck as to how you performed for 8 years previously. It isn't a short-term memory loss, Mr Martinez – it is a simple “here and now” philosophy.

Everton may have been the richest club in the 1970s... but they ain't now; Everton may have been the best team in the mid 1980s... but we ain't now! We all love the history, but the only thing that matters is the next 90 minutes.

So “Respect is a positive feeling of admiration or deference for a person or other entity” I don't think I can lose respect for a long term servant... but it is starting to wear thin.

So do I pop Howard in my top 4 with West, Woods and Martyn?? I haven't missed anyone, have I?
My memory is going... according to Martinez.

ps: The 'keepers are my favourites from my befuddled memories... not based on clean sheets or clean underwear (back to Georgie's whites!)

Ian,

I am still looking up some of these guys. Stats are hard to find and too hard to compare different eras given differences in the pitch, the equipment, and the fitness of the players.

Just one question, as to your continued mistakes earning a place on the bench. Where were you and others regarding Stones last year when he was making the same mistakes as he is this year?

ps: The Welsh do make some outstanding scrum-halves, though don't they?

Darren Hind #26
John Daley #36

Absolutely agree with all of that.

The whole shambles was compounded by the ridiculous contract he was given that runs for 2 more seasons after this!
Its going to make it hard to even give him away for free, but at least he walks away a multi millionaire and knowing more about football than all of us amateurs put together.

So it’s not a lack of respect – "Respect is a positive feeling of admiration or deference for a person or other entity" – it’s more a case that we are all suffering from a form of short-term memory loss? Interesting spin... a bit like David Cameron and his “We have got a really good deal... honest!”

It got me thinking though: where do I drop Howard (did you see what I did there?) in the Everton goalkeepers’ list?

So I can just about remember Gordon West and his handbag – no doubt a great Everton ’keeper and I’m sticking him in my top 4 (so let’s start this at 1970). I don’t have great memories of Andy Rankin even though he made a number of appearances... so he’s out.

My early years were blighted by Dai and Dave... I mean one was Welsh (who the hell as heard of a decent Welsh keeper??) and Dave Lawson – where the hell was he going when that RedShite twat lobbed him?? ... so they are gone.

Georgie Wood... what a nutter: ”Georgie, Georgie show us yer whites” Good fun but was he a good ’keeper? I must admit, I liked the guy, and who was there when he ran out, put his arms out wide in crucifix style, shouted “Keeper’s!” and missed the ball!!! He then turned round, ran like hell and gathered it on the line in front of the Street End!! He’s in.

Paul Gerrard, Myhre, Richard Wright... ouch! And lots of others that made one or two appearances before departing to pastures new. There was, of course Nigel Martyn – now he was a very good ’keeper (I think he only played 3 seasons?) I’m sure there’s a stato to put me right. A good and dependable ’keeper, I even have a picture of Goodison Park he signed and gave me hanging on the wall. He’s in.

Now, Tim Howard has been around a good while, certainly he’s a good shot stopper. The problem for him is he’s playing on longer than perhaps he should... not his fault if he’s picked... but we only go to watch Everton win.

If you make an error that costs us the game, the fans will rant but will forgive. However, if you keep making mistakes and costing games then they couldn’t give a rat’s feck as to how you performed for 8 years previously. It isn’t a short-term memory loss, Mr Martinez – it is a simple “here and now” philosophy.

Everton may have been the richest club in the 1970s... but they ain’t now; Everton may have been the best team in the mid 1980s... but we ain’t now! We all love the history, but the only thing that matters is the next 90 minutes.

So “Respect is a positive feeling of admiration or deference for a person or other entity” I don’t think I can lose respect for a long term servant... but it is starting to wear thin.

So do I pop Howard in my top 4 with West, Woods and Martyn?? I haven’t missed anyone, have I?
My memory is going... according to Martinez.

ps: The ’keepers are my favourites from my befuddled memories... not based on clean sheets or clean underwear (back to Georgie’s whites!)

Jesus, Mike Price,

Did Howard piss in your Wheaties or what? You don't even know the man and you continue to slag him off. If it is not because of your ill-conceived notions of your knowledge of goalkeeping versus his (Yes, I would defer to the professional player, the one who is 9th overall in the EPL in keeping clean sheets), then it is because he is the "worst keeper in EPL history right?" Just ignore the stats and reality.

Now he may be leaving and all you can write about is that he may be a multi-millionaire and you are unhappy. Are the rest of Everton's players, or the rest of the league's players playing for free then? He gets paid because of a contract other people negotiated and happily so.

I know you don't rate him so when his testimonial comes, if it comes, just fucking don't go.

Jim,

Mike Price has been vocally anti-Howard for as long as can remember; but then again you have been pro-Tim for just as long. The rest of sort of fall somewhere in between, so it all evens out.

A competent manager would have eased the Startled Starfish out and made sure we had a better replacement before he became the object of derision for the fans. If anyone has destroyed Howard's 'Legacy', it is Roberto himself.

I'd be more concerned about your own legacy, Roberto.

Yes Darryl, but I don't slag him or any other player off as a person when I don't even know him. I don't care if people don't fancy him as a goalkeeper but why does that allow for personal attacks on him or others (Mirallas because of his car) because they are playing for the squad and drawing a wage. He even got slagged off for going on vacation by some on here after last season.

Odd that Howard gets attacked for his supposed demeanor or off-field life yet one of the Blues who actually went to prison is regarded as a hero on here by some and above Howard as a human being.

I would say the same thing to those attacking Barkley, Mirallas (And I have), Lukaku, Barry, Baines, Kone, etc. Criticize what they do on theepitch but FFS begrudging them a contract, or a personal life, or "hating" a player etc are way way over the top.

Our Tim came out with this when commentating at the City/Spuds game today...

"Clattenberg is one of THE best referees"

Our Tim seems to suffer from memory loss too

Ian Robert "a decent Welsh goalkeeper" I give you - Neville Southall. I wouldn't tell him he wasn't Welsh or a decent 'keeper!

Legacy? How many cups and titles has he won at EFC?

Legacies are built on success! Duncan Ferguson and Tim Cahill were great players for EFC and deserved a legacy, but they won nothing as well. No legacy.

If Roberto dropped players who consistantly under-perform and only reinstated them once they'd earned the right to play then all of this bullshit could have been avoided.

Weak-ass management...AGAIN