Is it really that simple to put this down to stick with Koeman or twist and find someone new? Interesting to read forums and see the mixed opinions of those who feel Koeman's time is done and those prepared to stick a little longer.
Before I throw my views into the mix I would like to tell you a story and how I feel, because there is so much more to this than stick or twist. It's far more fundamental than that because it feels really bad and I know I am just one of thousands of true blues who want to know why?
In my half-century of following Everton I have experienced both sides of the coin. The joy of winning leagues and cups and the frustrations of too many years of mediocrity when we settled for mid-table or the occasional excitement of a relegation battle. In all those teams, whether potential world beaters or perennial strugglers, we played with passion and pride in wearing the blue shirt.
As I have read many times over the years, you can change just about everything in your life, but you can't change the team you support and love. It's a life sentence to endure the painful times and be optimistic that the wind will change and the good times will be just around the corner.
To be honest, the game I love has changed beyond anything I could ever have dreamed or feared. I welcomed The Premier League as a true gift to football fans, but now I long for the days of 3 o'clock kick-offs on a Saturday, homegrown players who come through the ranks and show genuine joy at being the envy of 40,000 fans who would give just about anything to be them.
I hate the money-driven culture of players and the money-driven culture of owners, and even the money-driven culture of fans who believe everything can be bought. Sad as it is, the good and bad times that brought me so much are long gone, but hopefully you can at least relate to how I feel.
Given that we are where we are, I never wanted Everton to be another Chelsea or Man City, or Man Utd, where money drives whatever they achieve. I really hoped we would do a Leicester or settle for being a Spurs and play great football.
I am sure I was not the only Everton fan who thought this season was going to be special, even though some of the spending seemed just a little excessive. I won't spend time on stating the obvious, but we really didn't do great business in the balance of what we got and the failure to get a striker surely lies mostly on Mr Moshiri's and Mr Kenwright's toes. I can't quite understand where Steve Walsh fits in,but we are really just a mere shadow of what we were only 6 months ago.
Only Everton could, on the brink of real success, crumble to abject failure in the blink of an eye. I want to know why? How did those in who we trust screw up so badly. Ultimate blame lies with ultimate responsibility, even though Koeman may be the convenient scapegoat who could lose his job. Mr Moshiri and Mr Kenwright – how did you endorse some of the spending and how could we possibly have all our eggs in the Giroud basket?
Apologies for the rambling, but I honestly have never viewed my beloved Everton with such disdain. I have never seen so many unworthy young men, full of talent, lack so little ambition or grit. I have never been so embarrassed or disappointed in the scenes at the Grand Old Lady on Thursday night, or felt such fear that we have further to sink.
As we can't buy a striker until January and I am not particularly excited by any of the potential replacements for Koeman, I think Everton need to collectively take stock and call for unity. This starts with supporting the team and Koeman. I want a team that looks like a team and plays like one so let's cut out the constant switching and put out a team that we give a little time to gel.
I want Koeman to look like a manager who does not look like he has just picked himself up off the tiles after a heavy session. I want him to personally take responsibility for the results. I want him to build bridges with any players who have suffered from his stubborn arrogance and apologise. I want him to be positive and decisive, and I want him to look like a manager who could still manage Barcelona rather than the pub team where he is heading.
Finally I would like the fans to get behind the team and turn Goodison Park back into a fortress. Arsenal is a start, but even if we lose it is how we lose that matters. I would also like to hear less conspiracy theories over ground developments and stupid negative comments on the owners. They know they have screwed up so let them fix it. The more immediate goal is probably a first goal, a win, and then a climb up the table. The ground is not an immediate concern because, if we carry on like this, we will be playing in the Championship and it won't really matter. Will it?
We lack confidence in all areas. I have never seen confidence grow on negativity so we need a positive outlook in all areas. We all need to move on from the recent disappointments and look forward and get behind the team. As I said earlier, we have not always been winners, but this is the first time we have been real losers. The laughing stock of the Premier League, lacking respect, and in desperate need of rebuilding a crumbling image.
Mr Moshiri and Mr Kenwright – time for you to stand up and be counted. We feel fragmented and disorganised. Please sort it and, if Koeman cannot turn this round, replace him with someone who can, but only when you have his replacement as a done deal. As for the calls to put Unsworth in as a stop-gap, then please think again. I think David may well be a great manager one day, but throwing him in right now is truly unfair to him.
We were the People's Club. We do great things in the community and that is something we should take pride in, but first we are a football club. One that has been respected for past glories and how we go about our business. I liked that and I don't like what we have become. Let's put pride back into our club and passion into our team.
Reader Comments (39)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 21/10/2017 at 18:15:51
I suppose we will never know the true story of this summer. I think people are getting lost in Steve Walsh's role in the club. The club have never really defined it. He has said bits and bobs himself.
We know he is in charge of all recruitment. He is in charge of the scouting. The question is who ultimately sanctions the signings. I cannot believe for a second that Steve Walsh is signing players Koeman doesn't want. So the question is, does Steve Walsh give Koeman a list and he checks off who he wants? Or does Koeman identify all the targets and Steve Walsh and his team then go off and try to sign the player.
With a manager on £6m a year, I believe Ronald Koeman is identifying who he wants and Walsh is overseeing the transfers. This means overseeing the lawyers and agents in the negotiations in the way that Moyes and those before Moyes used to do. One example of why this is the case is Davy Klaassen. Google will prove that Koeman was at Ajax on at least three occasions. He was not a guest who came onto the pitch, so he was clearly there to observe. Maybe he observed Dolberg, Ziyech or Sanchez and decided they weren't good enough. More likely, though, he was deciding whether Klaassen was worth it.
If Koeman is in charge here, but just stays out of the negotiations, then maybe he insisted on Giroud and that was why it appeared we put all our eggs in that basket. Giroud, by all accounts, also told Everton he would sign, which means presumably terms were agreed. So it seems the transfer was all but done bar the signature, and then he did a U-turn at the last moment, reportedly due to his girlfriend's choice of residence.
Koeman also made it clear that he and Walsh did have other targets and that it was ultimately decided that it was better to stick with what we had. In other words, the likes of Benteke were too expensive for what they were or determined to be worse than the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Rooney or Sandro.
Of course this is all supposition, but it can only be supposition in light of a lack of facts. But I fail to see what more the board could have done in these circumstances. They cannot force the manager to buy someone. It appears that the club decided to keep the money and to wait for January. I can only presume they expected much more from our strikers, and of course, for Rooney to actually be a striker!
I do not see how it would be unfair to appoint Unsworth. If he came in and tried his best, by playing the football he does for the U23s, the football we all want to see, and plays some of the kids, then we will all give him time.
He is also likely to think about more than football, see the U23s sleeping in the stadium and the efforts to support EitC. This is the kind of stuff that our overpaid players could also get involved in, and learn how to be part of our community and maybe instil a bit more fight into them. I think Unsworth can use such projects to bond the team into a team.
I would have no qualms with Koeman being sacked and Unsworth being given a caretaker role. I would prefer Silva to get the job full-time but Unsworth could have a chance to stake his claim.
Koeman has to go and has to go now.
2 Posted 21/10/2017 at 18:56:54
We cannot blame the fact we did not sign a striker as a reason for the abysmal situation we find ourselves in. We could have signed Neymar and Messi and we would still play crap football.
Sorry, Mike, the buck stops firmly, in my opinion, with the manager. He picks the players who are out of form, he picks the players out of position. He picks the negative tactics we play. He continues to support the failed and redundant system, week after week. He embarrasses both himself and the Club by blaming everyone and everything apart from himself. His man-management comes across as abysmal at best.
The longer we give him "one more game", "until the end of the month", "until Christmas" and God forbid "until the end of this season" the more deeper the hole he is digging for us and the more desperate a situation we will be in when it is finally realised we are in deep deep shit. I'm actually surprised he is still here. Sunday afternoon at the latest please.
Regarding his replacement, well would or could anyone be any worse? Could our situation get any worse? I don't think so. I think the main thing right now is to get rid of him.
I personally would put Unsworth and Royle in until a full time manager is sourced and appointed. The priority right now is to get some points on the board and get away from the bottom.
3 Posted 21/10/2017 at 19:06:43
The cost of severance is far less at the end of the year and as long as we don't go down then we lose nothing. This also gives the club, not just Koeman, the chance to turn things around and if he does that then we're in a no cost situation.
I always refer to Kendall and Ferguson and still do, the line 'em up and sack 'em brigade would have missed 4 Everton trophies and a magnificent Man Utd time. Some have said it is different, I say it is exactly the same. There is still a chance that the club can turn it around.
Look at Slaven Bilic, he is also having to try to make a team from a load of junk bought for him outside of his control. If our overpaid players would try to turn it around on the pitch they would play far better than they do now even without a coach. I want Koeman gone but getting rid now is absolutely crazy. If relegation looks likely at the end of the year then yes, he would have to go.
4 Posted 21/10/2017 at 19:39:27
It's all ifs and buts. Go and win tomorrow to build confidence and take it from there.
5 Posted 21/10/2017 at 19:46:20
The football on offer is the responsibility of the manager along with his staff and the players. If the manager asks for certain positions to be filled as a priority then the board wherever possible should try and get the best player available in their price range. If they fail to sign the priority needs of the manager, it makes no odds how much money they have invested if it's on the wrong players and it also sends out the wrong message to the players already in the squad. That's not to excuse the abysmal displays we've seen for the majority of this season but it is a factor and it shouldn't have been.
Of course, it would be fantastic if the crowd showed the team how much they care and to be fair they usually do when the team provides the basics of hard-running and desire; however, it is extremely difficult to be enthused when most if not all of the players look as if they would rather be anywhere else in the world than out there on the pitch.
There was some hope to be gleaned from last Thursday's match, even if it was only for 20 minutes or so. If that desire and passion are on show tomorrow and for most of the remaining fixtures, most fans will accept that as progress and it will help us move forward in the next few months. If the team are unable to show that level of commitment in the next few fixtures, then a change of manager is more likely than not.
I think the days of the fans turning up and cheering anything and everything that happens out on the pitch have long gone. The disparity of rewards for the players compared to the average earner, has grown out of all proportion and therefore the players are judged more harshly by the paying public than in bygone days.
It shouldn't be too much to ask for the players to display some team spirit and a pride in the shirt that they wear. Sadly it seems that the financial rewards are taken for granted and the shirt is no more than something they have to wear in order to take part in the game.
Today's game is all about financial muscle and, if the results of tomorrow's matches go against the way we would wish, the top six in the Premier League will once again have the usual wealthy clubs occupying those top league places.
I hope that Everton can do something to prevent that tomorrow but it will as usual depend on whether the players are up for it or not. The Goodison faithful are always up for it and desperately want their team to do well no matter who the manager is or which players are out on the park – so long as they try their best.
6 Posted 21/10/2017 at 19:49:11
The most important thing for me is that we provide a positive environment for the players during the games. That is, that we support the team.
7 Posted 21/10/2017 at 20:02:36
One part I don't is regarding buying success. I would take am Abramovich or a Mansour tomorrow if we could win leagues as a result.
8 Posted 21/10/2017 at 20:03:07
Yes, you do always refer to Kendall and Ferguson. Why Ferguson, god knows... None of us on here support Man Utd and none of us know how we would have fared if Kendall were to have been sacked but he wasn't and the rest is history.
But I'll say this: keep Koeman at our peril and by 'peril', I mean The Championship Yes, that's how worrying it is.
Surely not even the man's ardent fan can surely think he can turn this round. Just 5 goals in 8 league games and a goal difference of minus 8 even at this early stage says it all.
No settled back four, no settled midfield, and as for up top, well, let's not go there... The man himself doesn't even know what his favoured 11 is
Keep this clown any longer and believe me, we will go down. Even last season, with the league's 2nd top scorer, we were awful to watch and the away form alone should put him under threat.
By all means, stick... but we will become the new Leeds United that's how serious this mess is, not even 10 games in!!!
9 Posted 21/10/2017 at 20:36:25
I hope Koeman can turn things 'round, but so far he hasn't lived up to his standing as one of the top ten managers in the world of football salary wise, at least. He really needs to start showing he can make the best of the hand he's been dealt, it's what you'd expect of a top manager & something managers well down the divisions have to do all the time.
10 Posted 21/10/2017 at 21:52:50
Waiting until "relegation looks likely" is "absolutely crazy"!!! Not getting rid of him now!!!!!!!
11 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:07:22
12 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:09:56
13 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:18:57
Nine 'long' week's before the window opens, and the cavalry ride in (we hope). I can only think of two managers in the last thirty years who have managed to turn abject struggling teams around.
Kendall (Mk 1) just about held onto his job, before that cold night in Oxford, but at least he had player's with real heart and passion. I simply don't see that trait in this squad.
The other manager was Ferguson, who had an awful time of it, shortly after his arrival at Man Utd from Aberdeen.
If I've missed someone else out, with similar powers of recovery, please correct me, but history tells me otherwise.
If the inevitable is going to happen, it needs to happen in the next two weeks, before the international break.
Whoever comes in, short term or otherwise, needs time to re-group and counsel opinion, from those members of the coaching staff who escape the chop.
The last six months have been awful results-wise; doing nothing is not an option.
14 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:19:28
I know this has been mentioned hundreds of times before, but he needs to scrap playing two holding midfielders and have width and pace, particularly at home. Should this happen, then I'm prepared to give him at least 10 more games to turn things around. If, however, results don't improve with a new system then get rid, as it can only mean he's lost the dressing room.
My team for tomorrow:
Pickford. Kenny, Keane, Williams, Baines. Gueye, Davies, Vlasic, Mirallas, Sigurdsson. Calvert-Lewin.
Subs: Stekelenburg. Martina, Jagielka, Rooney, Niasse, Lookman, Sandro.
15 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:27:38
1) Kenwright and Moshiri are completely mad and do not have a clue about football or what it takes to assemble a side to win games.Deaf dumb and blind to fan reaction.
2 EFC are that cash strapped that they can not afford to sack Koeman and the employ a new manager on big money. I don't mean Moshiri doesn't have personal wealth but that is immaterial. I'm not sure it would allowed for Moshiri to pay off Ron.
Judging by the lack of a striker and eagerness to off load Barkley in January, I am thinking Reason 2 is the most likely explanation. Don't give the board so much credit as to think they are doing the right thing here. We can't sack Koeman if we can't afford to.
16 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:37:52
Waiting until "relegation looks likely" is "absolutely crazy" not getting rid of him now!!!!!!!
17 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:38:38
18 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:40:34
19 Posted 21/10/2017 at 23:07:16
20 Posted 21/10/2017 at 23:15:24
21 Posted 21/10/2017 at 23:34:13
22 Posted 21/10/2017 at 00:13:56
Koeman has had 16months. With two different sides. Ironically he did better when it wasnt his team. Well at least the apologists would have you believe last season.
In both iterations of his side there has been no discernible pattern of play, not one player has improved significantly under his tutelage.
He has on the most basic level failed to look at a squad and use a system, whether he prefers it or not, that fits the players available.
An average coach that has not broken the top 4 in any league that matters in Europe.
A very debatable man management style which now faced with severe pressure doesnt suit to reconciliation towards players and fans. Perhaps if he had, more time & patience might be on offer at this juncture.
As I type Im continuing minded there is no constructive evidence for retaining him.
All we get from those who wish to stick is ‘time, not an argument just blind hope.
The argument that uses Ferguson and Kendall is frankly ludicrously romantic. Howabout all the other managers which were given time and did nothing.
Moyes? The last decade of Wenger?
History tells you management is transient not a long lived tenure.
How about all the managers that wins things and then move on? So many examples of winning and then rightly moving on; Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola as recent examples.
The evidence is stacked against the man, hes engineered a narrative of a committed phobe.
We owe him nothing.
23 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:28:05
24 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:42:50
In the name of all that is holy, no return of Moyes. In any circumstance.
The article is in The Mirror, complete with smiling photo of Moyes atop a picture of Koeman looking stressed and dishevelled, before he found his lost razor.
A very scant article by even the usual standards, with no quotes or reputed statements and barely a credible attempt at false speculation. I'm going to say it's 95%+ likely to be total bullshit.
25 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:51:21
26 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:58:46
I support Everton fc and the players. Manager or owner is not important. The team is my focus. Tomorrow is another game we need to win. The fans need to be positive to pass that on to the players. The more we focus on the manager, the more this plays into the oppositions hands. We can't influence the manager but we can the team. Get behind the players!!! Thank you!!
27 Posted 22/10/2017 at 04:29:19
Honestly I despair when I hear calls to give him until the end of the season. What we are witnessing now is a team in free fall. A manager who looks acts and is out of his depth. Get rid before its too late. These players may not be from the top draw, but they are surely to fuck better than this.
Get Koeman out. Sack him straight after todays game, regardless of the result.
I was shouted down for calling for Unsworth to be given the job last season, Many skilled debaters (not) tried the old "You're in a minority of one" routine in order to shut me up. That foolish claim has now been laid bare. Unsworth has as much support as anybody, even those who don't think he is ready would be 100% behind him.
Get Rhino in. We know he can put fire up players arses, we know his teams play with a passion and flair, we know he is a winner, we know the entire fan base would get behind him and we know he wont tolerate the semi committed Zombie football which has brought shame and ridicule on this once great club..
28 Posted 22/10/2017 at 07:43:25
29 Posted 22/10/2017 at 08:13:32
There's nothing "pure" or "noble" about continually trying to build everything from the gutter. It's just idiotic and besides, we've been Man Utd's nursery club by day, and their retirement home by night, for years so doing things organically has already proven to be a dismal failure.
Koeman is plainly not the right man to manage the club; he doesn't need any amount of time to prove otherwise because he has already proven his unsuitability.
But likewise, the club's helmsmen, including Comical Ali Moshiri, aren't right for us either.
30 Posted 22/10/2017 at 08:37:19
During the Joe Royle reign, we had an identity, style and system. We didn't under Mike Walker and got rid. We had an identity, style and system (like it or loathe it) under Moyes and Martinez.
What we now have is no identity, no style and no system, a la Mike Walker. So its time to get rid, because much as the Wimbledon game forms a significant part of Evertons history, I don't want to live through it again.
Finally, quiz question. What system, not line up/team, but what system will we play today? Under Kendall, Royle, Moyes and even Martinez I would wager 95% of us would answer that correctly. Percentage wise today, the correct answers would be a lot less and most worryingly, I bet Koeman still doesn't know the answer!
31 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:11:33
You raise a good point. Some of the players have clearly downed tools and they should be ashamed of themselves. Who the fuck do these footballers think they are these days ?
In the past two seasons, both Leicester and Chelsea have had to sack their manager in order to avoid a relegation scrap and get their players to start work. It stinks These overpaid twats are clearly prepared to sacrifice their own professional pride and integrity to get rid of the boss they don't like.
Its one of the unfortunate consequences of making them "superstars". They are now all powerful.
Look, I think Koeman has been desperately poor in terms of man management, I think his football has been painful to watch, but that doesn't stop me wanting to him to turn it around . .even now. But he cant. How can he when we have selfish twats not performing for him. If we all stopped performing because we didn't get on with the boss. the world would grind to a fucking halt. . .They should still be performing for us !
Moshiri should not just be sacking Koeman, he should be making mental notes for the future and any player who has not been broken hearted by a defeat should have no part in it.
32 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:17:45
I want Ronald Koeman to be replaced immediately, as the last thing we need is an Alan Shearer scenario, where the replacement is brought in too late and they have the excuse they had too few games to keep Everton in the Premier League.
33 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:22:11
I want a manager who gets what the club is all about, wants to play good football, is not scared of anyone and wants to develop the young players and bring them through to the first team. I would be happy with giving Unsworth a chance, certainly in the short term, he surely can't do worse than the rubbish we are getting at the moment.
My concern is that instead of an up and coming coach or a big name proven coach we would go for the type of manager that will guarantee survival. I just dread seeing Big Sam, Moyes, Pullis or their ilk being paraded in front of the cameras and being hailed as some sort phenomenal Hollywood style manager.
That said Koeman just has to go and quickly, no point in keeping this going, put us all out of our misery. That is before the Board inflict its next plan on us.
34 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:58:16
Yes - one more would have been nice, but we have England's all time record goalscorer and a kid who scored a winning goal in the World Cup Final this summer. We also have a guy who scored 16 goals in La Liga last season and plethora of goal-scoring midfielders.
Honestly, I watch Everton and I think - I have never seen such a talented group of footballers play so badly together as a collective.
Imagine your 5 favourite actors and your 5 favourite actresses. Imagine them all in a film together. Imagine it produced by Spielberg, with a budget of $500million or more.
Now imagine the script sucks and it is being directed by a Mongoose dressed as Ronald McDonald.
It will be a bad film.
That is what is happening at Everton.
Koeman Out. Rhino In.
35 Posted 22/10/2017 at 10:31:03
In reality, good decisions are based on accumulating evidence of performance on the pitch, not on the possibility of 'Oxford moments'. Events like 'Oxford moments' are rare, they are unlikely to occur in any given situation. Basing a decision on them is akin to making a financial decision dependent on winning the lottery. It is unrealistic.
Based on the evidence, rather than on highly improbable 'Oxford moments', Koeman has to go. Putting Unsworth in, perhaps with the support of Joe Royle, would be a sensible interim measure.
37 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:10:51
38 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:17:23
39 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:11:03
40 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:31:12
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.