The Madness must End!

However, it's no longer a purely BK regime, and in all likelihood Moshiri calls the shots. There's more money now. Of course, the spending so far doesn't look too good, and the first high-profile £6M/year manager wasn't great. But when there's new money, progression isn't likely to be in one or two seasons.

No doubt there'll be another high-profile manager, on over £6M/year, and further big spending on players. There will have to be, otherwise Moshiri and the board won't be delivering on what they said 18 months ago, about endeavouring to get us competing with the big clubs at the top table.

It's clear that to be at the top, and sustain it, big money is needed. Yes, there's the occasional Leicester, but that's a flash in the pan, unsustainable. Moshiri wants to be in the Champions League, and consistently, so will spend to achieve that.

Of course, there's no guarantee of Moshiri achieving that aim, but it's far more likely than if we settle for a 'no-nonesense' manager of the likes of Allardyce.

We achieved what we did in the 60s because of money (we were the 'cheque-book' team), and in turn the 80s success had its roots in that, via Kendall. If we wish to win trophies, not just to compete around mid-table, money, and lots of it, will need to be spent. It's not the only ingredient for sustained success, to be sure, but it's necessary.

Allardyce and his ilk are dinosaurs. Anybody worth their salt can get a team organised and hard to beat. That was Moyes ( who was the best of the dinosaurs IMO) problem. He instilled a team spirit second to none,get us organised and hard working but he couldnt handle big players with big egos.

Whether we like it or not the best players will usually come out on top and the best players cost money and need professional management of the highest level.

That is why the likes of Ancelotti have won the CL three times and why Guardiola has won so much.

Are you honestly telling us you would sooner have Allardyce than an Ancelotti or Guardiola.

I do not want to be or settle for second best or overachieving plucky little Everton. I want us back at the top of the table competing for championships and cups and having a realistic chance of winning them.

It wont be easy and it may take a few years but a top class manager will get us safe this season and build for the future. Allardyce may get us safe this season but take us back years.

Dinosaurs are extinct.

If you put your article and sit alongside Stan's excellent response - 1 - then I think that just about covers all points raised and answered.

One thing I would agree on though and that is the manager. Moyes stayed too long; Martinez was not a good appointment neither was Koeman and I say this as somebody who said so at the time, not in retrospect. We didn't need so many number 10's has been stated by so many so often in recent weeks but you are right; a striker and replacement for Coleman and a damn good manager and we would be up there were we belong. It doesn't have to be a foreign manager, just somebody who understands EFC, understands the EPL and somebody to whom the players would want to play for.

Erm, much as I wanted Koeman out, I'm struggling to remember when this cohesion, understanding, pattern of play and team spirit was in evidence?

If Moyes makes you feel suicidal then Pulis is almost as life threatening. And it would cost a fortune in baseball caps.

Martin O'Neil, David Moyes, Tony Pulis, Mark Hughes et al can all produce a team that is functional and able to win the odd big match here and there but can any of them really compete at the top end of the league week in week out?

Koeman was a massive let-down as he too was merely a Dutch version of those British managers mentioned above but without the practicality of those men. Martinez was interesting but failed to address his own defensive lack of nouse and paid the price, thankfully Everton FC managed to dump him before he could get us relegated.

Where we go next as a club and who the board choose as their next long-term manager will depend upon what their collective ambitions are for the club. If they are truly happy with regular top ten finishes without making a dent in the European competitions that they may qualify for in the coming years then they will settle for the practical, knows the Premier League type of manager.

If however, their ambitions are to crack the top six or four on a regular basis, they will have to attain the services of a top European coach or take a risk on a British manager who doesn't conform to the Hughes', O'Neill's et al school of management, of course either of those choices aren't risk free, but risk aversion is not the way to break into the top six or four.

Brave and bold decisions are required and like it or not a potful of money is a requirement too. I was there in the 1980s, the game was entirely different and so was the make up of most of the top clubs, it was probably more enjoyable to be a fan and a player in that era. What worked then may not work at all nowadays as it's harder to attract players from any Premier League team nevermind the teams who you are trying to match or overtake.

If Everton can manage to retain their best players over a sustained period of time and improve the standard of those who play alongside them, they may have a chance of seeing success. If Everton settle for the situation as it is and as it has been for far too long then there'll be no need to worry about who our opponents will be in any Champions League draw for another decade.

A manager is very important to any succesful team but not as important as having a side packed with very good players.

I think what you are suggesting is that we shouldn't aim high. Rubbish! Perhaps so until we get over this sticky patch but then - no.

Koeman was tasked with getting us in the top 4. You don't do that with two big immobile lumps who cant pass at the back, a couple of quick cloggers in midfield and a big immobile lad up front - for that you get mid-table.

Unfortunately, we have been caught out in transition to what we hope will be a top 4 team. We failed to get three of four crucial players in while removing the big lump up front and seeing the decline of two/three good centrebacks. The resulting pressure on the rest of the team has seen a huge loss of belief. The house of cards has fallen but the direction was right, the execution fell short. Koeman needed another summer, the next manager will too. I fully expect spending to resume to at least the levels of last summer.

Show me the recent trophies from someone with that profile?

In my view we need to be patient in looking for a long term manager who can attract top players and use the talent we have already to develop a well balanced and consistent team. The cost for bad recruitment of managers and players is high so we need to get it right and not jump to a nejerk reaction.

If that means keeping Unsworth in post until we have found the best manager, I am happy to wait.

I think a lot of us have lost sight of the shocking condition the team is in.

Was last weekend's freaky, once-in-a-decade comeback win really that stupefying?

Sure, Allardyce as manager repulses me as much as it does everyone else, but we can't think of anything beyond avoiding the drop at present.

Also, your opinion that all foreign manager's can only operate on a substantial transfer fund is simply not true. For example Raniera at Leicester, and more recently Silva at Hull (whomhe very nearly kept up) after being dead and buried at Xmas.

The same guy is doing a pretty good job at (big spending) Watford. If their first choice goalkeeper hadn't been injured on Sunday, my feeling is they would have gone on to win the game.

Initial selection and choice of manager, british or foreign is simply everything, when Pottechino first came to Southampton, he certainly didn't have a big budget, but Spurs stepped in and snatched him, the rest is history.

Still enjoyed your article though..

Some of you guys may know a lot more inside stories than me but I don't get this knocking of Kenwright. He got Moyes – most of us wanted this up-and-coming manager; he was taken in by Martinez as again, most fans were for a time... and Moshiri by all accounts brought in Koeman. So two errors of judgement – let's not go down the same road.

I don't think Moshiri is a football guy; I think he is on a commercial venture. Hope I'm wrong but a Hicks-type foreign manger and players in, as most clubs, with a foreign owner to sell the "product" worldwide.

To get back to our type of manager, Moyes, Pulis, Dyche, Big Sam, and Unsworth etc would not have assembled this type of squad... so a big, big task but that is the type of manager we need.

Basically we won't move on until Kenwright is moved out.

You all know what is going to happen, they will just let it drift with Unsworth in charge. If he makes it to the summer, great, but most likely if we are still in trouble in Jan they will go running for Big Sam.

That'll be the Leicester City with a foreign manager who spent next to no money?

I don't want to hear the board, or the manager, telling us we're going to play better. I just want the board to act, to spend the money necessary to get the best, both manager and players.

Sounds simple, and to a well run club it would be!

As far as Allardyce, Pulis , David Jones etc give me a break. They are all bang average managers or below. Please don't settle for that , I want some optimism left in my heart.

When as you say Leicester surprised the foreign coaches maybe thats because they were coached by another foreign coach Claudio Ranieri. The last English manager I think to win the league was Howard Wilkinson.

Apart from Alex Ferguson every manager that has won the Premiership has been foreign. As for Allardyce or Pulis you are definitely having a laugh. These 2 have won nothing, they are what I call survival managers. Yes they may keep teams up but they don't have a clue how to get these teams into the top half of the league.
Also name me a youngster that either Allardyce or Pulis brought from the youth team into a first team and become a regular. Both these guys buy the same sought of journeymen players they may get you to safety but thats it. Now if thats your ambition for our club then fine.
But for the money I pay as a season ticket holder I want a team that trys to play the game as it was meant to be played, not what Allardyce and Pulis serve up week after week.

There is nothing to say O'Neill wouldn't have us playing good football and winning. We have the players we just need common sense management. It's a simple game, good football comes with continuity, hard work and team spirit not because a manager says 'I want good football'.

We need to combine our tremendous youth system today with wealth to buy and retain the best. Otherwise the likelihood of getting to and staying at the top is next to sod-all.

No matter who we get in as manager it'll be a risk. Just because someone has Premier League experience doesn't mean they'll be a success. Just look at Moyes. Marco Silva had no experience but he did brilliantly at Hull considering the position they were in and if he'd had a few more games may well have kept Hull up.

I think any one of those common sense managers that you mention would have done better with the £140m spent this summer.

It has been said, and certainly seems the case to me, that the players confidence has been shot. Going by the sound bites they appear to want to play for David Unsworth.

The question is can he build their confidence back up by picking the right players in the right positions, and setting them up properly for each game? That is what the players will want regardless of who the manager is and where he comes from. And they will figure the answer out pretty quickly.

I know there are specific coaches for defence and attack and so on, but I wonder if in the future, the leading role may become two leading roles. The potential for disagreement and complexities is there of course, but perhaps in the future, PL team management may require more than is usually within the scope of one man.

Perhaps this was mentioned before around the time, when I was an infrequent reader of TW.

We could see that the players being bought in were OK but not outstanding before the season started, and the lack of a striker etc. The buying looks shite to mediocre. So we'll have to have another go at it.

And we'll have to spend enough to attract the best, not just middling players like Liverpool and Spurs have done in the past, wasting millions. And we need to retain the best. It's the only way to reach the top.

The biggest difference today compared to then, is the number of players within 30m of the ball. The game has dramatically changed. Everyone is so much fitter. They all have to run all game long. They all need to have a certain proximity to the ball. All the players bar the centre-backs are supposed to be in constant motion.

Management has also changed dramatically. Take Harry Redknapp he epitomises the approach of the English manager from the 90s and before. Rafael Van der Vaart summed it up when actually trying to praise his approach:
"There are no long and boring speeches about tactics, like I was used to at Real Madrid. There is a clipboard in our dressing room but Harry doesn't write anything on it! It's very relaxed. The gaffer gives us the line-up 20 minutes before we go out to do our warm-up."

"And the only words he speaks to me are 'You play left or right, work hard, have fun and show the fans your best. Then the defenders get an instruction about who to mark at corners and free-kicks - and that's it."

This approach of manager is outdated. They are done. So is Big Sam and his pro zone stuff that changed everything in the 90s, he's now 10 years behind. Pullis has an old-fashioned approach to the game that some struggle to deal with.

What we need is a coach. Someone who will have analysers making dossiers on the opposition, who will know the opposition inside out, who will tailor his side to counter the main threat of the opposition but balancing it against playing to our own strengths.

Koeman spent £200m on players. A good manager should be able to organise this into a side. He should be able to devise tactics that can put the right players in the right positions to exploit weaknesses in the opposition.

Everyone goes on about pressing these days. It's not just about pressing. There's three different ways to press. You have to press in such a way that it goes hand in hand with what you want to do when you get the ball. That you have the right players to win the ball, who are also the right players to attack with the ball and organising them into the right positions to do this.

Training is all about rehearsing movements. Making things that look instinctive happen because it's be drilled into the players so that they do it without thinking. When players move in certain ways you can create rapid passing between lines and cut through opponents creating overloads and clear goal-scoring opportunities.

Where is a british coach who even understands this, let along can play like this, train like this, and develop a side like this. Howe plays good football, but his teams don't press well enough, and they certainly don't defend well enough. Dyche can defend but cannot find the balance to allow for enough attacking opportunities over a consistent basis. Allardyce and Pullis haven't a clue. They'd rather yell at players and try and win a free-kick. Unsworth is an unknown quantity, he knows the coach speak, he's obviously been to the classes, but too little intelligent debate happens in English football to see who actually knows what they're talking about, let alone how to coach a side to do it.

The game has changed Jim.

That's interesting. Do you have any feel or feedback that Unsy is such an analytical coach? Does that, in part, explain his success with the U23s? And maybe is why he would need time with the first team to get that intelligence in place?

We have had a man at the top of this club for twenty odd years who hasn't a clue and fumbles his way forward every season, that's why we haven't achieved anything tangible under his ownership. You need someone who will want to tick each milestone off, i.e. i've now reached objective C and I now am going to set the boundaries and plans for objective B. There is simply no clear structure at the club.
Sadly for the club there is going to have to be more stepping stones before we can make serious strides forward, personally I believe that starts with Moshiri buying out Kenwright and the remainder of those board. Get a new board of directors with a clear plan and vision in place. Remove Kenwright asap, he's taken the lazy option in the past bringing in the likes of Moyes and Martinez. That's not a sign of a man who wants to move the club forward.

Moshiri must conduct a very deep thought out interview processes with candidates to understand and gauge if a potential manager is best fit for the job, not just offering obscene amounts of salary or a popular name from the past through playing days, but ensuring he himself is well knowledged on the footballing side, enough to question what is expected from his man and how they put a reasonable plan in place to achieve those goals every season.

Ironically, I think we were ahead of our time in the late-60s to 70. There was only us, and to some degree Leeds (although they spoiled it by being dirty), who played the ball consistently on the ground through midfield, when other teams were booting it up the field. And we did it fast, with slick fluid passing movements. I think City are the modern-day equivalent. We were very 'continental' in our style, an example of how stylish and effective British football could be if the desire, training and right players were there.

That's what we should be aiming for, the best, not just also-rans. It certainly seems consistent with what Moshiri et al were going on about just after Koeman arrived.

Our players don't appear to have any concept of movement off the ball, basic give and go etc. They are absolutely static most of the time, giving the man on the ball no options at all to pass!

There's a few videos where unsworth drops a few coaching terms. Nothing too fancy but he clearly has been on the courses, but you would expect Jeffers to have been on the courses as well.

This dossier that Unsworth did before his time at Everton that appears to be some youth development blueprint shows him to be a thinker. Other than that it is just listening to snippets here and snippets there. Particularly from the players that you learn he is a good coach with that skill to get a message across by making the game simple whilst actually getting these simple things to add together in a complicated way that he can see clearly.

What I liked is he had a team, a plan, a formation, tactics, and a way of playing:

Robles
Holgate Williams Funes Baines
Gueye Davies Schneiderlin
Barkley Lukaku Mirallas

We had a very steady back four that were solid. We had energy in midfield from Davies and Gueye whilst Schneiderlin sat. Barkley and Mirallas where narrow and came inside, Barkley to link Midfield and Attack, Koeman finally finding a position for him that did not disrupt his defensive balance, and Lukaku although often isolated, scored a shitload.

Then he ripped it all up. He barely played a 433. We never had the same fitness or energy. we lost our solidity and everything went to shit. All because he never had a plan.

And the players just passed it sideways to each other because that's their default. They were confused. Koeman didn't want this, he was not happy with them, but he was not getting his message across. What on earth did he do in training? Why did he not go back to basics and play a team like so:

Pickford
Holgate Keane Williams Baines
Gueye Davies Schneiderlin
Rooney Calvert-Lewin Mirallas

That way keep last seasons energy. Let Rooney be Barkley, let Calvert-Lewin or Sandro be Lukaku (yeah I know). And tried to change it once things were working and results were coming?

I like the story about when we went to America for a pre-season tour, and we used the local american football teams training facilities. There was this like skate board half pipe thing. Moyes was intrigued as to what it was, what it did and then what it could do for us. After watching a demonstration, he found out where they got it from and ordered one to be sent to finch farm.

Those two american fitness coaches we had for years, until Martinez decided he didn't need fitness coaches, were also ahead of their time, and an indicator of Moyes as an innovator.

Anyone advocating either of these two doesn't ‘get' the club and I don't care if you haven't missed a game since 1924 and shook Dixie's hand.

Can you really imagine either of these two in our dug out and feel fine? Both should have retired a long long time ago - they already filled their bank accounts, which has been their main aim for the last 15 years.

John, pochettino and Guardiola are all about the coaching. It's about knowing the tactics and getting that across to the players in a simple way on the training pitch. This present team plays like a load of shite, but a good coach should be able to put them into a top 7 side without a new signing. We've only lost one player, and we had a massive cushion over 8th. We don't have a player problem, we have a coaching problem. Of course, a proper striker would make the world of difference. Money only gives you possible shortcuts, you still need to coach the players. That's what Guardiola says (doesn't stop him spending though).

However, it's almost impossible to compare it to the present day. These players run 2-3 times further every game, they are so much fitter, they are taller, they are heavier, they are stronger, the ball is lighter and moves more quickly, bends more in the air, the pitches are synthetic, the boots are better, the kit is better, and so on and so forth.

All the good teams play with speed and are direct, not long-ball, but aim to get in the opposition's box with a minimal amount of passes; most important, they make sure whichever player is going forward, they are being covered. Even now, when you watch Everton when they're playing slow monotonous balls from defenders to midfielders going nowhere but back and forward and from side to side... Teams got used to this, closed Everton players down and we started panicking and getting nowhere. But at times, when we started attacking teams at a decent pace, we actually looked half-decent.

So, to me, we don't need some warhorse coach who will save us from relegation but a coach who is going to technically improve our players and a big enough coach who will encourage players to show their skill and flair. When it doesn't work, one who will take it on the chin and not blame the players. If that costs 㾶 mill a season, so be it. Surely improving playing staff and the way the team plays is better than watching a midtable dog fight year after year.

As for foreign vs British managers - its a false dichotomy. Who cares where they come from? Get the best we can. When you have the whole world to choose from (as the Premier League does) its hardly surprising that so few managers are British. If you were to pick the top 20 best tennis players in the world how many Brits yep 1. It's the same with managers and it would be extraordinary if it were otherwise if you look at the numbers of available managers globally vs UK .

It's not that foreign managers are better than British managers but, just as with tennis players, there are a lot more foreigners than Brits so on average you will have more foreigners in the top 20 at any given moment (its the same for all countries - there's nothing special about Britain - it's not like the Premier League has masses of managers from any one other country - just a couple of the best from each - the so called top 6 are managed by a Portuguese, an Argentinian, a Frenchman, a German, a Spaniard and an Italian - and these 6 are the ones with the real global clout so it is exactly as you would predict in a global market).

1.Appertaining to OUR club,we,i hope all agree ,need to heave the fat shyster 'controller'and friend Zahrin to fuck in one collective rush back to luviesville.

2.Cut the head off the Premiership of those ogerly rich top 6 clubs and let them chariot race round their own circuits with their hired mercenary show ponies and with their spoilt ,mob fans cheering them on.interninably.(Trust human phsyche they wont care).

3.Then merge the rest (of us) with the championship,so you would have a large (and fairly geographically encompassing national fambase) core of football as (more or less) near as dammit as you could get to a general even playing field.
As an after thought if England was actually joined to the continent those top 6 teams would be in a higher league anyway.
The largest glare of course would be suffering the Reds in a higher league than us.
Simple,just have a 1 up and 1 team down with that league.(notice I said 'that' league not 'best')
Fantasy ? Think about it.

I think you should ask Bolton's Director of Finance (if they can afford one) how much money Allardyce " didn't " spend.

Having said all that, this wasn't generally the case after the mid-60s, after the '66 World Cup. They became more modern balls, with some kind of watertight coating, acrylic or something.

Leicester won the title on 81 points. 81 points is Man Utd's AVERAGE (!) over the last 15 years, and Chelsea aren't far behind them.

Yes, you need good organisation of a team. But to be at the top and sustain it, you need good organisation AND the best players to be organised, by a manager who can organise them.

Regarding Peter Reid, Dave Sexton said Peter was always slow, even before his injuries but he was always two yards faster in his head than most players he played against.

Yes, Moyes was that much of an innovator, he couldn't engineer a derby win at Anfield or a win at any other of the Sky babes.

Failed at Manchester United
Failed a Real Sociedad
Failed at Sunderland

And the West Ham fans are hardly welcoming him with open arms, are they? Innovator... my arse!!!

Sam Allardyce, Martin O'Neill, Tony Pulis and David Jones have all been successful in achieving mid table with their teams. Non of them have been in the top 4 or top 6 very often, particularly in modern times. If Everton want to be taken seriously and push into the top 4 then the manager needs to be a winner or someone who evidence they are on the verge themselves. Those 4 names = boring in my book. We need exciting, galvanizing and a strong positive mentality.

Following what I said @73, over the last 15 years, the PL has been dominated by just three teams, Man Utd (6 titles), Chelsea (5 titles) and Man City (2 titles).

The points average for Utd and Chelsea is around 80, with City close. Others in the current so-called 'top-6' have averaged far less than this. For example, Liverpool have averaged 67 points, with of course no titles. We averaged 10 points less than Liverpool, and 10 points is less than the average difference between Liverpool and Utd. Our average is roughly the same as Spurs, apart from the last few seasons when Spurs have improved.

Now we have a new regime, and have ambitions for the top. The last thing we'd want is for the current 'top-6' to have a league of their own. It's just not justified by the facts. If there were a super league, it would be just three sides, Utd, City and Chelsea.

You have to be careful to distinguish the facts from the media propaganda about the current 'top-6'. This propaganda would have you believe that Liverpool is a top team, when in fact the facts show they are mid-to-high in the table, not the elite.

We might not get there, but shouldn't we at least aim for a manager who wants to win games, will be competitive in all competitions and not accept mediocrity whilst attempting to play entertaining football or is that too much to expect for a multi-million pound salary?

The reason? Confidence completely destroyed by defeats, poor environment around the team and in training, too many rollickings from coach or manager (without then helping them to improve), and a basic lack of understanding of the abilities of the players at your disposal by management.

Just keep swearing and bawling at them and anyone would just switch off.

Playing triangles on the pitch is based on trust – if you have it, play it, and your mate has not moved, you look like the shit player! There will be the exceptions who always want the ball, but without movement they will hold on for too long and get stripped, again looking like they are indecisive.

It's a vicious circle only rectified in training, at high speed, in tight areas, and completely no holds barred.

Always been the same, always will be.

Footballers aren't the brightest, so keep it simple, quick and short instruction.

And have a laugh!!!!

I like the idea of making Rooney a coach though question if he's mature enough.

By its very nature Everton, the club, the culture, the environment may be difficult for a foreign manager to full integrate himself and consequently deliver. As an expatriate for 25 years I know that this scenario applies in many walks of life, it's human nature. For this reason I think that's why we need to consider people who know he club, are affiliated to the club in one way or another and hopefully proven winners some may boo hoo the PL2 title but it's more than O'Neil / Allardyce / Pulis have won in the past 2 decades.

For example, we gave him time to find a way to win a must-win game away to Lyon and what did he do? Start the game without a striker.

Now call me old Mr Picky, but I suspect there's something not quite right about starting a must-win game without a striker.

The point is we are at great risk of being relegated because we are not functioning as a football team on multiple levels. We can't think beyond salvaging our top flight status at this point.

This article might help answer your question on 'the ramp' introduced to Finch Farm by David Moyes following a pre-season trip to the States.

Link

Half way down you can see a photo of it with an explanation from the coaches. In brief, it improved players power and acceleration, particularly over short distances.

I know the 2 coaches in the interview were moved on under Martinez. You might recall the comparative fitness levels and hamstring injuries under Martinez and Moyes. Cough!

The lad Steve was a Yank Moyes also recruited from the states. Now I don't recall if he was the American coach or not, but I do remember a really insightful video on the official club site with an American coach when these innovations were introduced.

He was super professional, really knew his stuff and spoke glowingly of the FF set up. I also remember when asked, his pick of the players for their dedication to training and athleticism was... Joleon Lescott.

I'm someone who takes a more benevolent take on Moyes' time with us, whilst simultaneously never wishing to see him employed in ANY capacity by the club EVER AGAIN for his comments on leaving the Blues for Manure. He did a lot of good things and the recruitment of American coaches and installation of the ramp at the time was one of them.

As for the claim you picked up on by an earlier poster - that Peter Reid would be far too slow to survive in the modern game - I'm with you. His speed of thought and ability to play a pass under pressure would make up for his undeniably slow pace.

This kind of claim is a futile one to make: that a player from a bygone era would not hack it in today's game. This was recently discussed on another thread.

And of course Reidy was a tiger, a winner. And a memory like an elephant! Who remembers in our first title winning season in the mid-80s Sheff Weds came to Goodison and Brian Marwood ended Inchy Heath's season with a filthy tackle? Six months later, in the away game at Sheff Weds, Reidy - barely legally - committed manslaughter on Marwood as revenge.

That was a TEAM that looked after each other.

Add to that his habit of employing unqualified, desperate ex-players as coaches, yes-men to the core as their personal predicaments force them to be, and it's a recipe for the mediocrity we've endured during his tenure.

I trust Moshiri has higher ambitions than to be advised by his expensively-employed mediocrity-magnate when it comes to our next manager but to me the increasing evidence of Moshiri not having much football-savvy is a worry.

I'm pretty sure Steve's 'skateboard thingy' description is misleading you. The ramp is what I believe he refers to and was what impressed Moyes and what he had imported to FF. You see a photo of that as I say half way down the article.

I know there are some Blues who have access to FF. I wonder if any one knows if the ramp is a) still in place and b) if so, if it is still used in training/fitness drills.

I doubt Sam or Unsy would get the job.

I really despair...

If we hadn't battled, we would be criticising the team for not trying, for not putting a shift in. But they did battle, so they and Unsworth deserve credit. Because Unsworth deserves credit, that should and probably will count towards any decision to appoint Unsworth. Football success is measured by results.

That's the best comment on here. The first paragraph sums it up perfectly.

Players might be fitter and run more but that does not necessarily make the play faster. There is not one single player from the current squad who would get in the 1985 team regardless of fitness levels.

That would fit perfectly into our great tradition of mediocrity and failure we have endured for the last 30 years.

When did we all become so defeated and cowed? That for me is the true Johnson and Kenwright legacy. If Simeone, Ancelotti and Tuchel were mentioned as candidates to replace Klopp, Liverpool fans would not bat an eyelid. That's the level they think the club should operate at. But if Moshiri dares to think bigger and fans get excited on here, they are squashed.

The true madness is thinking that appointing any of that brigade of second-raters will change us from the third-raters we've become. When are we going to show greater ambition? I think we owe it to the whole generation of fans like my sons who have never seen Everton win a trophy.

So please let's stop this "optimist vs pessimist", "get real vs ideal" bullshit that has really made reading TW painful and just decide as fans that we demand that Everton challenge for trophies year on year and become a top four team. Because, if we don't demand it, then the culture of complacency and mediocrity that has killed this club for three decades will never change.

And the mad thing is that we have an owner who is actually ambitious and willing to bankroll us to go for it.

Hurry up, Mr Usmanov.

Dave @101, I agree, we need Usmanov, or financial equivalent, to reach and sustain the very top. Sooner the better.

Currently, we don't have Usmanov to get us to the very top of the heap. But we do have Moshiri to get us going firmly in that direction, to be consistent 'top 6' and in the Champions League. And that requires a top-class manager, and a budget for players to satisfy that manager. That's what Moshiri can provide, he's basically said so 18 months ago.

Those of us who we're brought up with the 1960s Everton sides, and then had the 1980s under Kendall, have great things to remember. There's no reason why younger supporters should not have the same chances of glory.

Moshiri's finances can provide that glory. If he's thinking big, then surely us supporters should be doing so as well.

Bonjour et Bon Chance Mes Amis - - and them old cosmic grooves as well - - with a firm handshake - - George

Let's just pull away from the mess we're in. And then, next summer, reach for the stars.

Up The Blues and such Cosmic Dreamers.

The Hoovering... not a Freddy Mercury remake was it? ;-)

Anyway, the Van Gough "Loving Vincent" film. I missed it when it came around here. It looks excellent, is it?

Moshiri can drop all the big names he likes for our next manager, so can the supporters, but as long as we continue sell our best players every season, it's pointless. The big managers go to the big clubs. Big clubs fight to keep their best players.

You made comparison with LFC with regards to naming would be the next manager. It is true no-one would bat an eyelid when names get connected with the Kopites. The thing is, Liverpool told Barca to fuck off in the summer; we rolled over and let Man Utd tickle our belly again.There is a huge difference in mindset of the clubs, mate.

Until we stop becoming a feeder club for Man Utd and stop buying Premier League rejects from our competitors, we are going nowhere. If Man Utd, Spurs etc are ever selling, we should tell the fuckers we ain't buying.

Interesting and important time for EFC and for us fans. No obvious massive candidate for me just yet - - liked the sound of Tuckel a few year ago in BL - - was keen on him when Koeman got it - - would like to see a new young thinker and active rather than some of the old dinosaurs mentioned in the media.

The delay in naming someone seems to say that either they are still thinking or whoever they want is unavailable or even they are still looking to Unsworth.

Mmmmmm - - interesting few days ahead.

Best wishes - - George

But, not to get sidetracked with that, Watford was very much indeed a freak result that went against the fundamentals that remain appalling, namely, we can't defend and we can't create chances.

The team has played like this in every game since the start of the season, so if that is extrapolated out across the rest of the season, we're in trouble.

Form, not a once-in-a-decade recovery win, is what we should be focussed on when thinking about who the helmsman for the remainder of the season should be.

@ Tony Marsh: 100% agree with that point. We're still acting like a medium-sized club, most notably in our relationship with a derby rival, no less, Man United.

Whadd'ya hear? Whadd'ya say?!!

As for a new manager, it all seems to have gone quiet on the Allardyce front, thankfully. No idea who will come in though. It has all gone worryingly quiet on the Barkley front, too.
I'd love him to stay .

Interesting point about form, or at least it would be if it had any relevance to the issue at hand. Koeman's form as manager cost him his job. Unsworth has been in charge for two League matches this season, to my mind that's too few to determine any kind of form as yet, although as it happens, if he continued to win 50% of the remaining matches & lose the rest we'd be safe. No other candidate has any form at all as Everton manager, so I think your point regarding form is somewhat moot.

It's filled with sumbliminal messages designed to get you thinking he's the right man for the job. I think the board need to be brave and announce it now. Instead they seem to be waiting for Unsworth to deliver some results.

What else are they doing though? Are they speaking to Tuchel? Are they talking to clubs to get permission to speak to other managers?

It's all gone very, very quiet. It's definately Unsworth for palace for me.

That said, I want to see Unsworth given a go.

This is the filename we face. No mark presenters on a radio show who probably don't know where Everton is can both see what is blatantly obvious. It's a pity some our own fans can't see it..

What does one of them being female have to do with anything? Shall she run back home and get the dinner prepared?

You then say they are nomarks who probably don't even know where Everton is, yet you believe their opinions are sound? Which one is it? Do they know what they're talking about or are they completely ignorant?

Do they know that we won the PL2 under Unsworth, do they know who are prodigious young talent is? The World Cup winning 6 and Tom Davies and Beni Baningime?

Have they seen us to fathom what our problems are? Do they know what skills Unsworth has a coach and what flaws? Do they know that Unsworth doesn't have the skills as a coach and the players at his disposal to fix this?

Or are they being lazy and just looking at the league table and Unsworth's perceived lack of experience and jumping to conclusions? Every expert I have read or listened to is absolutely clueless.

The other week I listened to local expert, David Prentice, our local chief football writer no less, who gave his judgement on Klaassen and made a remark about him trying to play one touch stuff and that not being his game! David Prentice - that is exactly his game and you clearly have never seen him play for Ajax!!

I'm sick of these so called experts giving opinions when they actually haven't seen, considered or analysed the situation they are judging.

Georgey Bingham may come across as a male if you are a TW contributor who lives abroad. Most Radio/ TV pundits are ex footballers so my explanation put that to bed.
Female or not she knew Unsworth was out of his depth just by out recent games.

Off your PC high horse Please.

I'll ask again, what does her being female have anything to do with anything? Do you refer to Martin Tyler as the male presenter? PC police? No. Just asking why you felt the need to point out that she was a woman as a way to drive home a point about them being clueless.

And again, if they're so clueless why do you then put weight behind their opinion? Do they know what they're talking about or are they clueless? Surely if clueless, you wouldn't hold them up as strengthening your position. So which one is it?

Ex-pro made an inflammatory remark, people phoned in, cue explosive radio discussion and headlines in the papers. That's all it was, TalkSport winding up the listeners and generating publicity to sell advertising and increase revenue.

They never say anything bland or middle of the road. Everyone on there says inflammatory stuff. It's how they work. So I don't even believe that the presenters believe their own opinions. The only one who is middle of the road is Jim White, but he likes to be the voice of reason contrasting with his outlandish guests. Do the guests genuinely believe what they are saying or is the likes of Perry Groves saying what he's been told to say cos it's easy money that an average football that time should have forgot would not otherwise get?

He did one more year, and was asking to be sold again, particularly when Martinez was sacked. Koeman came in, and Koeman and the board promised him one more year and then he could be sold. Lukaku asked for Bolasie to supply the crosses to score more goals (Bolasie was a mate apparently) and we agreed. There was a proviso in the agreement that we would not sell him if we achieved Champions League football. There was a sum agreed and that sum was met by Manchester United.

Lukaku's agent tried to get a new contract agreed that would insert the release clause in writing in the contract.

If we reneged on a verbal agreement (it could have actually been in writing for all we know) then it would have damaged our credibility with incoming players who would not want to join a club like Everton (who if your a 18 year old foreign wonderkid would hardly be your dream club) if they would not be allowed to move on to one of the 3 biggest clubs in the world.

“There is nothing concrete with another club at the moment, my agent (Mino Raiola) is busy discussing things. I'm not going to make big declarations about my future, but I know where I want to play: in a club who are competing in the Champions League and can win titles in England.

“Staying in England is best for me. I know the competition, and I've almost reached 100 goals in the league, which is a milestone I want to achieve.

“The Premier League is a dream for me, but I also want to win the Champions League, the FA Cup and other prizes. I don't want to stay at the same level. I want to improve, and I know where I want to do that.

“My agent is now talking to a club. I know where I want to go, so I'll just stay patient. I know meetings have been arranged, so I'm just waiting for a call. We are now in discussions with the club. We'll see what happens.”

Go back, read anything Lukaku says last season. Read it with a slant that he has an agreement to leave and it all makes sense. Read it without, and it does not make sense. How can he be talking to clubs? Why weren't Everton stopping that or reporting clubs to the authorities? It's because he was allowed to as per the agreement.

Lukaku was a law unto himself IMHO.

If there WAS a gentlemen's agreement with Lukaku then it further shows the amateur approach of our board.

Brian - you need a player playing and playing well. If Lukaku went on strike or downed tools two years ago, do you think we'd have got a decent wedge for him then? You do what you need to do to get the best out of him, even if that means backing yourself into a corner 12 months down the line. Lukaku was always going to move upwards after us, we all knew it, and it was about keeping him as long as we could and playing the best he could to get him to drag us up with him.

Do we even know what the guy was promised when he joined us, because I certainly do not think that it was he will stay with us (penniless at this point) for the next 5 years. I bet he was promised he could disappear to one of the three biggest clubs in the world.

Lukaku would have been asking time and time again about his future transfers. This is not the era of Harry Catterick. These players need to be carefully managed and you're naïve if you just think you can say no and the player just plays on, as well as ever.

Keep it cool but mainly keep it cosmic.

I did it to emphasise a point. Next thing using italics will be seen as a micro-aggression or bold as a sign of male, white privilege.

I can't keep up with all the rules and regulations of the open air lunatic asylum that is modern western public discourse.

Maybe not everybody is aware of such things, but your response clearly shows you are - so why the need for the faux ignorance?

I'm not offended by your shouting, I just feel it's pathetic that you should feel it makes your point any more worthwhile.

I assume from your sinking to offering insults that you have nothing of any value to contribute. At least you're consistent.

The game has changed, but not for the better. The problem is all about money. Greedy players, greedy managers and greedy owners. Greedy owners I can understand, its the nature of business these days. What it has done is to split football completely. The premiership is a two tier league. The top five or six with their millions to waste, and they do, and teams like ourselves bringing up the nearly men. Sadly that is what we have become over the last couple of decades.

I don't however think that this is a lost cause by any means. We have a good club with a good and noble history and some of the most passionate fans in the game. Everton at the present is a project , we have some exciting young players and a current manager with the heart of a lion. Kenwright and Co all love the club. Mr Moshiri I don't really know much about, but he has some ideas of what he wants from the club. So we have work in progress. Leicester had a great season when they won the Premiership, but it was a one off. These things happen and it is great when they do. I think that this season for stability, next season for top five and the season after to be real contenders. When I say top five I mean a couple of points between fourth and fifth not the gulf last season.

We wont be in a relegation fight or anywhere near this season. What we do have is the opportunity to build and keep a potentially great footballing side.