1966 (and all that) – Part 2

Goodison Park was chosen as one of the stadiums to host matches in the 1966 World Cup; this second part covers recollections of the Quarter-Final and Semi-Final games.

Goodison Park was chosen as one of the stadiums to host matches in the 1966 World Cup; this second part covers recollections of the Quarter-Final and Semi-Final games.

Portugal 5 - 3 North Korea

World Cup Quarter-Final: Saturday, 23 July 1966
Referee. Menachem Ashkenazi (Israel)
Attendance. 40,248

Scorers: Eusebio 4, Augusto; Park Seung-Zin, Lee Dong-Woon, Yang Seung-Kook

Portugal: Periera, Morais, Baptista, Garca, Vicenta, Hilario, Coluna [Capt], Torres, Eusebio, Simoes, Augusto.

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North Korea: Lee Chang-Myung, Shin Yung-Kyoo, Lim Zoong-Sun, Ha Yung-Won, Oh Yoon-Kyung, Pak Seung-Zin, Im Seung-Hwi, Pak Doo-Ik, Han Bong-Zin, Lee Dong-Woon, Yang Seung-Kook.

A unique match, certainly no other had such a gob-smacking start, whereas Brazil had seemed petrified of the Portuguese attack, the Koreans attacked the Portuguese defence which was weaker – logical really.

They were a goal up in less than a minute, Han Bong-Zin rolled the ball square from the right and Park Seun-Zin struck it cleanly with the outside of his left foot into the top left corner, then Han Bong-Zin's cross from the right went all the way through to Yang Sung-Kook on the left of the goal line, his instinctive cross was turned into the empty net by Lee Dong-Woon.

The crowd had just started chanting "We want three" when they got it; Park Doo-Ik's shot fell to Yang Seung-kook who kept his cool to take the ball around a defender and leaving Periera standing with a strong shot, and the crowd rubbing their eyes.

Common consensus has it that North Korea lost the match by maintaining all-out attack instead of protecting their lead, but they were always going to be under threat as Eusebio got into his stride.

First, he cracked home Augusto's through ball, and then converted two penalties, both being directed to the keeper's right. The first when Torres was fouled by a man half his height; the other when his own forceful run down the left was ended by an illegal sliding tackle. His fourth goal was similar to his first, shooting without breaking stride. He played a part in the fifth too, his corner being headed back across goal by Torres, for Augusto to head in unopposed. It was Eusebio's match, but he had to share it some of the "Little People".

I was in my usual spec behind the Park End goal, and all the early action took place at the Gwladys Street end. We couldn't believe what we were witnessing. When Eusebio scored his first penalty, he raced into the net to retrieve the ball, he was certainly fired up. After the match, my mates and I agreed that North Korea were a little naive in not playing a more defensive game, but they certainly left their mark on a truly remarkable game.

West Germany 2 - 1 Russia

World Cup Semi-Final: Tuesday, 25 July 1966
Referee: Concetto Lo Bello (Italy)
Attendance: 38,273

Scorers: Haller, Beckenbauer; Porkujan.

West Germany: Tilkowski, Lutz, Schellinger, Beckenbauer, Haller, Schultz, Weber, Held, Seeler, Overath, Emmerich.

Russia: Yashin, Ponomaryev, Shesternev, Danelov, Varonin, Sabo, Khusainov, Chislenko, Banishevsky, Malofeyevm, Porkujan.

If you liked raw meat, this was the place to be, with one side built like bull calves, the other more "Hammer than Sickle"; it all came down to who had more men standing at the end. Germany were almost ahead on that count early on, Sabo twisting his ankle trying to foul Beckenbauer and needing a pain-killing injection at half time.

Near the end of the first half, Schellinger went into a typical tackle on Chislenko, who was about half his size and weight. He took the man and the ball, leaving Chislenko clutching his ankle, then showed the other side of his game by running powerfully upfield, before hitting a pass to the right-hand side of the penalty area, where it was met by Haller's diagonal run and strong shot. 1-0 to the Germans.

A limping Chislenko lost the ball to Held, and gave him a clip on the back of the ankle. By the standards of this tournament, it was an innocuous foul, but Lo Belli sent him off.

Beckenbauer scored the second goal by drifting outside a pack of players on the edge of the area, before shooting left-footed just inside the left-hand post. Yashin, who stood and watched, was either unsighted or thought that the ball was going wide.

Porkujan scored when Tilkowski dropped the ball, Banishevsky then headed over the bar but, even on an off-day, the Germans had shown what they were made of, and Chislenko knew what that felt like.

I watched the game from uncharted territory – the Gwladys Street terraces. I don't know how that came about because I purchased my tickets in a job lot.

I thought that Chislenko was unlucky to have been sent off for what's been termed an "innocuous tackle" and I also think that it was the most disappointing game of the five we had the good fortune to watch.


The Complete Book of the World Cup 1930 to 1994 – Cris Freddi.

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Reader Comments (85)

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Terry Morris
1 Posted 10/07/2020 at 20:25:07
I was an official interpreter (Spanish & Portuguese) at Goodison Park for the 1966 games. I had a spectator position near to where an apoplectic Portuguese commentator was watching the 3rd goal go in for the North Koreans. No need to translate this! He said, "Comunistas, malos, fanáticos!"

Regarding the semis, the Goodison Park crowd were angry that the England vs Portugal game was transferred at the last minute from Goodison to Wembley.

Eusebio was ever a crowd favourite of course. Well after he retired, he was at a penalty-shot competition in Portugal and asked to have a go. In just his casual shoes he took a pen with all the pros and came third!

Bill Watson
2 Posted 10/07/2020 at 21:32:08
Thanks for a great reminder of those two games, John. I was in the Street End for all the games and how lucky we were to see some of those lengendary names, in the flesh. Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Yashin, Seeler etc

I hadn't realised just how low the attendances were, given the Goodison capacity was around 70,000 in those days. Unlike today, the majority of fans were locals; football tourism had yet to be invented.

After the game Uwe Seeler nipped over to Wigan to visit family he has there. Imagine that happening today with a World Cup Final coming up.

The North Koreans were based at a RC seminary in Rainhill.

To this day it's rankled me that we didn't see England in the Goodison semi final. That's how it should have worked out but the FA fiddled them back to Wembley where they played all their games, bar the one at the White City Stadium.

Peter Mills
3 Posted 10/07/2020 at 22:53:00
Thanks John.

That’s an emotional post for me. I started going to Goodison as a small boy in the early 60s, wedged into two seats between my Dad and my Grandad in the Upper Bullens stand. I can still remember mutterings that you were a snob if you went in the stands. It was a bit later in life that I reconciled you could not really be a snob if you were seriously wounded on The Somme, worked in the markets in town all your life, and spent your spare time trying to improve the lives of those less fortunate than yourself. As my Grandad did.

Anyway, having supported Everton all his life, having attended the 1933 FA Cup Final (and arrived home by 10.30pm), he mysteriously missed the 1966 FA Cup final. I never knew why, but I do know that everyone who desperately needed a ticket got one, including me.

Instead, his final game at Goodison was North Korea 3 v 5 Portugal.

Thanks John.

John McFarlane Snr
4 Posted 10/07/2020 at 00:05:50
Hi Terry [1] Bill [2] and Peter [3] I posted a second version of the article, I made an error in the Germany team, Lutz was the first name of Friedel, and I omitted the goal scorer Haller. I put it down to an age thing, 82 next Wednesday if God spares me.

Terry, I think you will agree that it was an experience of a lifetime, although North Korea had triumphed against Italy at Ayresome Park, with a goal from Park Doo-ik. As I said, the crowd went ballistic when the Koreans went three up, and they only knew one way to play. I'm not saying that they would have beaten Portugal if they'd gone defensive, but I feel it would have robbed us of a memorable occasion.

Peter, it's true that stand fans were somehow regarded as a cut above the man on the terrace, as you grow a little bit older you realise that they're just as passionate and loyal to the club as anyone. I graduated to the Upper Bullens Stand in the middle 70s and I discovered that there were, what we used to call 'Toffs', who turned out to be nice down to earth blokes. Your Grandad sounds like a special individual, and it's clear that you hold him in the greatest respect, and if there's anything I warm to it is respect.

Bill, I think you are correct in your reasoning regarding the attendances, those were the days when only the regular fans would be seen at football grounds, none of the celebrity crowd, or hangers on. To tell the truth I wasn't really bothered that England didn't play at Goodison, we had the opportunity to see Banks, the Charlton's, etc. at Goodison both before and after the World Cup Games. To watch some of the finest players in the world would in most cases, be a once in a lifetime experience.

John McFarlane Snr
5 Posted 11/07/2020 at 00:44:29
Hi Michael Kenrick, thank you for the action clips, they really enhance my article, it was ill mannered of me not to thank you before I responded to first three posts, once again many thanks.
Don Alexander
6 Posted 11/07/2020 at 01:12:49
Eusebio in 1966 sealed his reputation as a legendary goal-scorer, not least on the back of this victory, which was phenomenal, and more importantly televised live.

To me, he further enhanced his sporting credentials in the 1968 European Cup Final against Man Utd. At one-all late in the second half, he unleashed a shot of such power that the Man Utd keeper, Alex Stepney, admitted he was grateful that it inadvertently lodged under his arm, unwittingly saving a goal. Stepney regained his feet, bemused he said, to find Eusebio shaking his hand in appreciation of such a fantastic save.

They don't make 'em like the Black Panther anymore.

Derek Thomas
7 Posted 11/07/2020 at 06:04:56
Those Hungary vs Brazil and Portugal vs North Korea games still stand out as two of the most exciting games ever seen at Goodison.

As stated, West Germany vs USSR was an anti-climax and I still haven't forgiven The FA for selling tickets under false pretenses.

The home crowd was firmly behind Hungary and the North Koreans... for all we blat on about School of Science, we all love underdogs and triers at Goodison. Yet, as we do, we stood to a man and applauded both Portugal and North Korea off the field.

North Korea still kept plugging away and had the Portuguese reduced to serious amounts of time-wasting. So much so, that as a result of the Portuguese goalie obeying the letter, but not the spirit of the law... running the clock down by walking around his area, ostensibly looking for somebody to pass the ball to, while bouncing it every third step... the rules regarding goalies were (later) amended.

Michael Kenrick
8 Posted 11/07/2020 at 08:55:34
No problem, John (#5) – the wonders of television... I'm just rubbing it in. [Insert smiley-face emoji]

That reminds me, when challenged previously about what horrors television hath wrought on the game you remember, the only thing you could come up with was kick-off times that don't fit your personal regime:

"As a match-going fan, I have to attend matches as early as 12:00 noon, or 5:30 pm on a Saturday, or as late as 8:00 pm on any given evening. These kick-off times are not for the benefit of those of us who attend games, they are for someone in the Far East and other locations."

This is an argument I've heard put forward as one of the main complaints. I would just point out that floodlights, rather than television per se was the critical factor that lets fans attend evening games during the week. Nothing to do with television or the Far East. And I'm sure you're familar with the comment lament of how wonderful Goodison Park can be "under the lights".

And the time in Shanghai when games kick off at 8 pm? Why it's 3 am!!! Is that a particularly good time for TV advertisers to lure in the sleeper Far Eastern TV viewer so they can make pots of money, while your average match-going UK punter is inconvenienced by an 8 pm midweek kick-off? A 5:30 pm kick-off is hardly any better, the game ending around 2:30 am in Shanghai!

I shall refrain from stating the obvious, John, as I know you are easily offended.

Steve Shave
9 Posted 11/07/2020 at 09:09:42
On another note, an English hero of the 1966 World Cup is dead. RIP Jack Charlton.
Chris Williams
10 Posted 11/07/2020 at 09:53:03
Never the most popular opposition player at Goodison, in a deeply unpopular team. Very effective nonetheless.

I wonder what Johnny Morrisey might think when he hears the news.

RIP Jack Charlton

Dave Abrahams
11 Posted 11/07/2020 at 10:00:07
I never went to that special game Portugal vs North Korea. I was at my mate's wedding in St Malachey's in the south end. I don't think I would have gone anyway, but I missed a great game and occasion.

Regarding sitting in the stands, I always regarded fans who sat there as the sensible fans and, as soon as I could afford it, that's where I sat. Why get knocked from pillar to post when you could watch the game in relative comfort?

Michael (8) do you think there were no evening games before floodlights? At the start and at the end of every season there were plenty of evening games, kick offs at 7:00 pm. One game I remember was against Middlesborough and the heavens opened, never seen such a downpour while the game proceeded. In fact, I think the players were taken off for a few minutes until the rain went off. I recall Jimmy McIntosh scored one of the goals in a 3-2 victory.

Brian Murray
12 Posted 11/07/2020 at 10:23:02
Although we used to sing yer dirty big giraffe, Jack was a winner and a leader like our Labby albeit bit nastier to say the least. RIP jack.
Ray Roche
13 Posted 11/07/2020 at 10:34:07
Dave, as well as watching the game in relative comfort you could also express your displeasure and disappointment at a performance by hurling your cheap and nasty rented cushion onto the pitch. Happy days.😁
Roger Helm
14 Posted 11/07/2020 at 10:56:02
God and Satan arrange a football match, and Satan says he will win easily. What, says God, we have George Best, Jack Charlton, Johannes Cruyff, Stanley Matthews -. Yes, says Satan, but we’ll have the referee.
Julian Exshaw
15 Posted 11/07/2020 at 11:01:36
John your post is more poignant today with the sad passing of 'big' Jack Charlton. An amazing no-nonsense character, a hero of those times for England and some years later for Ireland.
John McFarlane Snr
16 Posted 11/07/2020 at 11:36:15
Michael [8] I did use the phrase "The far east and other locations" I could just as easily have said "America and other locations" and the time difference then could be afternoon or evening. I can't remember which thread I posted it on, but you appear to have sat on it for a day or so. You finished your post by saying, "I shall refrain from stating the obvious John, as I know you are easily offended"

Well Michael,the only thing that is obvious to me, is the personal dislike you have taken to me. It may give you pleasure to know that when the current thread dies a natural death, or when you decide to delete it. I will have posted my final contribution to this site. Over the four years or so that I've been involved on this site, I have made some very good friends in person and by communication, one or two have my e-mail address, but if anyone would like to have it, I would suggest that they contact Lyndon, stating that have my permission to obtain it.

In the main it's been enjoyable, but to use an anti- Bill Kenwright phrase, 'it's your train set'

Hi Don [6] I remember the Eusebio and Stepney incident well, Eusebio ruffled Stepney's hair in friendly appreciation of the save, a 'True Gntleman.'

Hi Derek [7] I believe that the crowd especially in the North Korean game, were 100% behind the underdogs, different times, different attitudes.

Hi Dave [9] the Portugal vs North Korea game was special, and as you say there were evening and early games pre floodlights, but they were because of "Mother Nature" An evening game that sticks out in my mind was the 6pm game against Bury in the Second Division. Derek Mayers making his debut, scoring twice in a 3-0 victory, with Dave Hickson grabbing the other goal. The attendance that evening was just over 11,000, mainly because an hour or so before the kick-off, there was a tremendous cloudburst, which undoubtedly had an effect.

Hi Ray [10] I think that Dave was talking about the days long before the 'Cushion Days'

Tony Hill
17 Posted 11/07/2020 at 12:08:17
John @12, I hope you don't go from the site. I've had run-ins with the editors before (my fault, actually) and so have many others. We all annoy each other from time to time, which is inevitable, but there is general good feeling among the contributors and it's a proper place for Blues to come together. I'm sure that Michael and Lyndon would be the first to say that the site is not about them anyway.

I started watching the team just after people like you and Dave and a few others. We oldies represent something important on TW which is a store of memory, a store which will be passed on. Our history does matter and your articles are very much part of that.

Dave Abrahams
18 Posted 11/07/2020 at 12:11:56
John (12), I remember that Bury game and the rain, Derek Mayers a good right winger, he went to Preston North End with Alec Farrall when Cliff Britton was manager there.

John get your head together and have a good think about leaving ToffeeWeb. Michael's bark is worse than his bite, just rise above it, you'll be missed and you know you'll miss the site.

Steve Brown
19 Posted 11/07/2020 at 12:39:43
Tony @ 13, the site isn't about Michael Kenrick? You'd better let him know as he evidently thinks it is.

John @ 12, frankly just ignore his tedious responses to your articles.

Will Mabon
20 Posted 11/07/2020 at 12:41:59
Unbecoming to see needless arguments between the better and more important contributors to the site. What's the point? Leave it to the occasional nutters that come and go.
George McKane
21 Posted 11/07/2020 at 12:46:55
John - - Stay On - - No Messing Around - - Keep Posting - - It Is The Role Of The Artist (and you are an artist in my eyes) to be a constant thorn in societies side - - No Committee is Worth its salt anywhere in The World if it doesn't have a Randle P Mc Murphy on it - - "Ahhh Juicy Fruit" - - - I'll be Cool Hand Luke - - you look more like Jack Nicholson and of course I'm a dead ringer for Paul Newman.
Cosmic Grooves To All Blues - - Keep It Bluetiful
Jim Jennings
22 Posted 11/07/2020 at 13:10:00
Michael Kenrick,

You've been called out before for your childish, vindictive nitpicking at John. It says a lot that you keep at it yet didn't respond to Darren Hind challenging you on your views on Ancelotti versus your previous stance on Moyes.


Thanks for these articles. For younger (although not young!) fans like myself, it's stuff like this which makes this site great. Such a welcome distraction from the “this player is useless” contributions that take over matchday threads.

John, I hope you reconsider your decision to stop posting. You wouldn't be the first to be hounded out and unfortunately probably not the last. Have a wonderful 82nd birthday this week, John, and here's hoping for many more to follow.

Trevor Powell
23 Posted 11/07/2020 at 13:21:29
John, you are the ToffeeWeb equivalent of The Repair Shop on BBC. You bring out the goodness in all our memories about EFC. I read your contributions avidly and, sad as I may be, they take me back so vividly to going to my first match with my Dad in 1961, the first game I saw with my mates in 1964.

Please carry on writing, the are lots of us out here who appreciate you!

ps: Happy birthday, I am 68 in a couple of weeks and i have hear a rumour that my daughters are getting me an EFC shirt with No 68 and Grandad on the back. I shall wear it with pride!

Bill Watson
24 Posted 11/07/2020 at 13:28:09
John; it's posters like yourself who make ToffeeWeb what it is so please, rise above Michael's tedious nit-picking and reconsider.
John Burns
25 Posted 11/07/2020 at 13:31:20
Don't go, John. I really enjoy reading about your Everton experiences of yesteryear. I like your style and appreciate the polite manner in which you always conduct yourself. The site reflects contrast of opinion and the way it is communicated. You would be a huge loss to ToffeeWeb.
Kieran Kinsella
26 Posted 11/07/2020 at 13:53:13
Talking of 1966, sad to hear Jack Charlton has passed away.
John McFarlane Snr
27 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:00:09
Hi all, thank you for your kind words and support, I am now having to ponder on whether I elect on a matter principle, [which I value greatly] to cut off my nose to spite my face, or do I respect your feelings for me and swallow my pride?

I can tell you it's not an easy decision to make, what makes it so difficult for me, is the fact that I have never been disrespectful or purposely offensive to anyone on this site. So do I accept that sort of approach from anyone else?

I won't rush into a decision, I'll need time to think, is it my pride, or your support?

Patrick McFarlane
28 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:11:00
John and Michael, may I suggest that both of you communicate directly via email and try and iron out the perceived differences that are causing this spat.

Life's too short for silly disagreements and I'm certain that a solution can be found that suits all parties including the many members here on ToffeeWeb who enjoy the articles provided by the various authors and the platform provided by the editors to allow those articles to be published.

John McFarlane Snr
29 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:28:07
Hi John aka Patrick [24] you can suggest it by all means, but I don't think you fully understand the situation, it's by no means a 'silly disagreement'. So I'm afraid that your suggestion is not one that I would like to pursue.
Paul Tran
30 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:36:16
John, I understand your strength of feeling. I'd like to carry on reading your good writing and I'd miss your resolute courtesy.
Patrick McFarlane
31 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:37:41
Okay, that's fine John, I'll keep my oar out.
Brian Williams
32 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:50:08
John. I think the most telling thing with regard to Michael's attitude towards you is the fact that he regularly publishes your articles on the site. He wouldn't do that if he didn't believe they have merit, which they most certainly do.

I don't know what started things between you and him but I've met you and know you to be a gentleman. I think it's fair to say you come from an era where respect, tolerance, and good manners were of the utmost importance and maybe some of the interactions on here are anathema to you.

For what it's worth, and it ain't usually much, my advice would be to "carry on regardless" and "wear a tin 'at." Focus on the positives and brush off the negatives. Unfortunately, some may suggest, not everyone is as genteel and well mannered as you. 😉

ps: Although you may have got the time differences wrong for the Far East comparison, I agree that some of the kick-offs these days are to suit TV broadcasts, and not all of them in the UK.

Jeff Armstrong
34 Posted 11/07/2020 at 14:55:26
Micheal Kenrick,

Lately, you seem to enjoy getting under John's skin for no apparent reason, as John is one of the most courteous and polite posters on this site, I would go as far as to say it is bullying.

Eddie Dunn
35 Posted 11/07/2020 at 15:08:25
John, may I add my voice to the others to implore that you continue posting on this site. The charm of ToffeeWeb is the breadth of opinion and the rich reservoir of knowledge and memories of games and moments that cameras and film clips miss.

If I might add that the written word can look far more brusque than if the same was spoken with a slight inflexion or a smile. I have been offended and given offence through the medium of emails.

A friend can tell you to "Fuck Off" with a smirk and it means nothing, yet written down it looks quite different.

Most of us on here, I think, could be loosely described as "friends" so let's all make an effort to be forthright in our opinions without resorting to name-calling or abuse.

Bill Gall
36 Posted 11/07/2020 at 15:09:36
Thank you, John, for your recollections of the World Cup games at Goodison Park. I was lucky my tickets were for the Gladys Street end. It takes me back, I was 26 then but at nearly 80 sometimes I can't remember what day of the week it is but articles like this jog my memory.

I remember being pissed-off over the semi and gave my ticket to my brother and went away on holiday in North Wales where the lady who run the bed and breakfast let me watch the final on the TV as her husband had gone to Wembly with her son.

Understand your feelings and it is a shame that someone takes advantage by thinking his knowledge is better than yours, but your experience will still be missed if you stop writing.

All the best, John, and if and when I come back for a visit I would like to get in touch.

Len Hawkins
37 Posted 11/07/2020 at 15:11:59
John, having started watching Everton in the mid 60s, your posts bring back many memories of a great era and I certainly hope you will change your mind and carry on entertaining us.

As others have pointed out, you have been courteous with everyone and for some other contributor to start picking on you is an insult to the great knowledge of all things Everton which you possess. Please keep imparting your knowledge to us.

Brian Murray
38 Posted 11/07/2020 at 15:14:32
What's more worrying than the input of John Mac Senior or not is Carlo now backing Iwobi like he did with Pickford. Next he will be saying we are in safe hands with the teary-eyed one overlooking things.

Surely it's just positive mind games to keep these snowflakes happy until the trap door can be opened this summer. If not I'm cashing my chips in like John Mac Senior and try after 50 plus years and ooze them out my system.

Michael Kenrick
41 Posted 11/07/2020 at 15:46:14
Wow, Snr John, I had noticed you were sensitive but you floored even me with that very effective deflection and flounce. Worthy of the very best we've had, if I may say!

I'm sorry that it seems you have no time for what is no more than a little light-hearted jousting on here. Some things I read from posters just don't make any sense. If that triggers me to post in response, I do so – without paying too much attention to whom it is who may be posting. Thus with the TV question that you have successfully deflected.

But that's clearly been my big mistake in your case. You treated my questions as a personal affront, which they never were. Merely curiosity as to how you come to believe such things, which I would have thought such a wise old owl as you would be chomping at the bit to impart.

Consider me well chastened by the outpouring of love and support you have received that's proper put me in my place, John. Enough not to dare challenge your wisdom of the ages again for fear of unleashing another torrent of personal invective from you.

Peter Mills
42 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:03:53
John, offence cannot be given. It can only be offered. It is up to the person to whom it is offered whether they take or decline it.

I’ve only met you a couple of times but I suspect you have the capacity to rise above some rather silly comments. Happy birthday for later in the week.

Liam Mogan
43 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:09:50
This website and various posters' contributions to the rich history of our club are priceless. We must continue to protect our unique heritage.

There has been an, at best, lazy ignorance and, at worst, nefarious campaign to belittle and undermine our status. Only today in that fine and upstanding newspaper the Daily Mail, the achievements of our greatest ever player were belittled and lied about by the national treasure, 'Crouchie'.

In answer to a question about the offside rule he claimed 'Dixie Dean scored 60 goals for Everton in the 1920s when there was no offside rule'. A blatant falsehood and likely a result of his connection to the dark side, where everything we stand for is constantly attacked.

He then added further offense by implying he would have beaten this record and suggesting that Dixie was just a lazy goalhanger. Never in a million years, 'Crouchie'. I for one am getting increasingly angry by the constant attempts to denigrate the club I love. NSNO

Brian Murray
44 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:11:01
Back to matters on the pitch. We obviously need some divine intervention and the Burnley keeper Pope is currently playing great at the piggery. Commanding goalie is a start.
Ken Kneale
46 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:25:47
Liam, I would not get too worked up about such an average player as Crouch – I very much doubt his records will still be spoken about in 92 years time.
Liam Mogan
47 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:33:15
It's the casual nature of the rewriting of history, that bothers me, Ken. How many people will believe that type of falsehood? Too many.

But you are 100% right on Crouch. Shouldn't have even been reading him or that rag anyway.

Michael Kenrick
48 Posted 11/07/2020 at 16:46:59
Jim Jennings (#22),

Since you bring it up, I recall that thread triggered plenty of responses that did an excellent job of explaining the geometric fallacies in Dazza's parallel lines drawn between Moyes and Ancelotti. I know he had challenged me personally but, in that case, I think a better result was found in the answers from others that were far better than mine would have been.

However, it's good to know you are on the lookout for when and how I should or should not respond to other posters. Thanks for that.

Liam Mogan (#43),

This is now classed as "nitpicking" on here but I feel duty bound to note that the offside rule was changed in 1925 to ‘two opponents’ rather than three and there was a marked increase in the number of goals scored.

In the 1924-25 season 4,700 goals were scored across 1,848 Football League matches. The following season, this rose to 6,373 goals from the same number of matches.

It was fully two seasons later, so... did Dixie Dean benefit from this rule change? I think he probably did — but it was the same for everyone, including George Camsell, the lad from Middlesbrough the season before, who scored 59.

John McFarlane Snr
49 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:02:19
Hi Liam [47], the offside law was changed for the 1925-26 season: instead of three men being between a player and the ball when the ball was passed, only two were necessary.

Prior to then, Newcastle United had two full backs, Bill McCracken and Frank Hudspeth, who had the offside trap down to a fine art, one of whom would stand on the half-way line, and move forward thus playing his opponents offside if the ball was played forward. So what Crouch is saying is nonsense.

Liam Mogan
50 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:03:43
Yes, Michael, the offside rule was changed in 1925 and, like you say, the goals flew in, but Mr Crouch stated that there was no offside rule, which was where I had issue.

It was changed again in 1990 to being level and not behind. So it could be argued Save Our Summer Peter had it easier than Dixie.

Kieran Kinsella
51 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:15:11
Comparing Dixie Dean with Crouch or anyone else for a different era is ridiculous. Dixie played on potato patches with heavy boots, and a misshapen ball that weighed a ton. Modern players have boots designed to make the feather-light ball swerve and play on velvet-like pitches.

Dixie was also subject to two footed tackles and arm wrestling, whereas current players get free kicks if the breeze is strong. So how can you possibly compare the two? It's an entirely different game.

Kieran Kinsella
52 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:21:32
Terry Morris 1,

That's a nice anecdote. How did you land that gig? A Russian guy my Dad worked with was the official interpreter for the Russian players in the 1987 Football League versus The Rest of the World match.

It was a last-minute thing where they arrived spoke no English, and someone knew someone who roped this guy in to be the translator. The benefit for me was Yuri collected autographs for me from Maradona, Pele (he was a guest there), Platini, Lineker, etc

Liam Mogan
53 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:24:13
Kieran, it's just ridiculous that Crouch can denigrate the achievements of our greatest ever player whose muddy heavy boots he is not fit to even kiss.
John McFarlane Snr
54 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:40:32
Michael [48] I will make this my last posting on our differences to prevent it developing into a slanging match you say, "Consider me well chastened by the outpouring of love and support you have received that's proper put me in my place, John. Enough not to dare challenge your wisdom of ages for fear of unleashing another torrent of personal 'invective' from you"

I have looked up the definition of invective in two dictionaries, neither one the Oxford English Dictionary, so I'm flying blind now.

Dictionary one reads, "violent accusation or abuse". Dictionary number two reads, "blaming or criticising in very strong language". Can you please tell which of those two am I guilty of.

Brian Williams
55 Posted 11/07/2020 at 17:43:08
Crouch (can't believe I'm even posting that name) is merely trying to create interest where there would otherwise be none.

Say or print something to get a reaction and eventually your "story" features on the likes if NewsNow. He's a mug trying to do a job he hasn't got the smarts for. Nice lad otherwise, for a gobshite.

Jim Jennings
56 Posted 11/07/2020 at 18:15:01
Michael Kenrick,

Nice try. I don’t need to be “on the lookout”. Bullying simply stands out. As evidenced yet again by your sarcastic response to John on the final paragraph of post #41 on this thread.

David Cash
57 Posted 11/07/2020 at 18:24:59
Crouch was once asked what he would have been if he hadn't been a Premier League footballer. "A virgin" he replied.

That response alone earns him the benefit of the doubt from me.

Dave Abrahams
58 Posted 11/07/2020 at 18:40:11
David (57), yes ways liked that response from Crouchie, I like a man who doesn’t take himself too serious.
Dave Abrahams
59 Posted 11/07/2020 at 18:43:24
Above post (57) should have started, “ yes always liked”

Michael that word checker has been on the whiskey again.

Christy Ring
60 Posted 11/07/2020 at 19:40:18
John, always love reading your posts, and your football knowledge.

Sad news with the passing of Jack Charlton, RIP, he gave us some great times, when he managed Ireland. He was his own man, and I remember him playing Paul McGrath and Mark Lawrenson together in midfield, probably our two best centrebacks.

By the way, I thought Overath was class, probably more influential for the Germans, in 1970 & 1974.

John Burns
61 Posted 11/07/2020 at 20:10:31
John. You spoke about some of the greats who played at Goodison in '66. Who is the best non-Everton player you have seen play there in your lifetime?
John McFarlane Snr
62 Posted 11/07/2020 at 20:30:40
Hi Christy [60] thank you for your kind words, in truth it's a little knowledge, a bit of research, and a lifetime of interest in football, which sadly is on the wane.

After hours of discord it's good to get back to what I enjoy doing, discussing football with like minded people in an amiable manner. It's not my way to be aggressive in speech, but I considered I was being unfairly treated, so it led me to take the course of action I did, but as far as I'm concerned it's water under the bridge now.

To get back to the reason you posted, I think that Jackie Charlton was a man's man, he appeared to be a great man to have a Guinness with, I can understand why the Irish people think so highly of him. I must however say that there were occasions when he played for Leeds United, that I did curse him.

I remember one game when I really lost it with him, it was a game at Goodison some time in the 60s, an Everton player I can't remember who, flighted a superb ball to set up an Everton attack, Charlton reached up and plucked the ball out of the sky, I was livid, and I can remember exactly what I said, which was, "I hate that kind of foul because you can't do anything about it, whereas if he kicks you, you can kick him back." I've mellowed a bit since then.

John McFarlane Snr
63 Posted 11/07/2020 at 20:40:44
Hi John [61],

I hope you'll allow me to pick four players because I find it impossible to pick one. On the domestic front I have to go for Tom Finney and George Best.

Keeping to the 1966 World Cup theme, I would say Eusebio and Pele, but unfortunately we didn't see enough of him. Thanks for posting because this is what I enjoy doing most, I'm not a great fan of insult swapping.

Stephen Vincent
64 Posted 11/07/2020 at 21:05:22
In the summer of '66, my father worked for the GPO (General Post Office) now BT. His job was to install temporary telephone exchanges; his brother had the same job.

There were 2 jobs in the Liverpool telephone area that summer: the installation of a press box at Goodison Park for the World Cup, and the other the press box for the TT races in the Isle of Man. My dad got the Isle of Man and my Uncle the World Cup.

I watched the World Cup Final on a tiny black-and-white TV in a farmhouse near Peel. My cousin watched the World Cup at Goodison Park from the press box.

Still, I did have my photo taken with Agostini and Hailwood.

Best non-Everton player I saw in the flesh: Dennis Law or Danny Blanchflower... but neither were as good as Mr Cool – Roy Vernon.

Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 11/07/2020 at 21:20:13
Christy (60), I've always had a soft spot for Southern Ireland's football team, possibly because of the many Everton players who played for them. But a genuine question: How did you feel for the many non-Irish players who turned out for them because their grandparents were born in Ireland?

I ask this because I knew an Irish solicitor, and we used to talk about football, but, when I mentioned that it didn't seem right to me that English, Scottish and even Cockney Italians could play for Ireland, he got upset and told me I was jealous of his team. This was when they got to the quarter-final of the World Cup, which was ridiculous, because if Eire were playing England, I wanted Eire to win.

On to Jackie Charlton: good player, a bit of a character, and stayed with his feet on the ground.

A Liverpool team were playing a team from Leeds in the National cup, pub teams. The Liverpool team had a very well known character in their side, Harold (Fat Harold) Hughes playing in their side.

Anyway, the match was a battle, a blood battle. The match finished 3-3. At the end of the game, Harold went over to Jackie Charlton, who was on the committee of this team.

Harold said to Jackie, “Alright Jackie, good game, see you next week in Liverpool for the replay.”

Jackie said, “You're joking, aren't you, I've seen what you've played like today. Do you think I'd let my team travel to Liverpool? You can have the game, we'll concede it!”

He had a lot of sense, Jackie!!!

Tony McNulty
66 Posted 11/07/2020 at 22:39:50
Regarding Jack Charlton, for those who may not remember, or are unaware, he had discovered that he could hamper any opposition keeper’s movements at corners by standing right in front of them. It was a very successful tactic for Leeds and led to a number of goals for them.

Cut to me. I have done a lot of work in Dublin down the years, and at one stage was flying there and back every week.

One day as I was sitting at Heathrow waiting for the Dublin plane, he came and sat near me. A succession of Irish lads kept coming up to him, one after the other, every couple of minutes.

The topic of each conversation was almost identical, as was his patient response: “Are you over for the football or the fishing, Jack?” “Woor. I’m over for a bit of fishin’.”

When they called us for boarding, he leapt in front of me. He was one of the first on the plane. Like the majority of VIPs (those were the days when they still had Business Class on Aer Lingus short haul) his seat was in the front row. However, since he had to put his bag in the overhead locker, he stepped into row 2. Row 2 was where I was due to sit.

As I arrived, he turned around, looked at me, and stayed exactly where he was. Presuming I was headed towards the back of the plane, he smiled, and politely motioned for me to pass by.

I said to him: “You’re standing in my place. This is like the opposition’s penalty area when Leeds used to get a corner. You’re in the way, right where you’re not supposed to be. Do you think I look like the effing goalkeeper?”

He seemed to find it quite funny. Well, it amused me, and I don’t think I made it into his black book, unlike a certain Mr Morrissey.

Christy Ring
67 Posted 11/07/2020 at 22:58:41
Dave @65, We're a small country, so I was delighted with the grandparent rule, but Houghton and Aldridge did nothing for me!

But England, France etc, did the same... the funny thing was, Tony Cascarino said he had no Irish blood whatsoever and still qualified?

David Currie
68 Posted 11/07/2020 at 23:50:08
John Mac Snr @16,

I always enjoy reading your articles and your posts as you are a season ticket holder and I enjoy the views of any matchgoing fan the most.

Do not let one person stop you from writing such enjoyable articles as I know many of us appreciate your time writing them. You have a wealth of experience watching games at Goodison and Happy Birthday for this week.

Kieran Kinsella
69 Posted 11/07/2020 at 23:59:34
Christy Ring,

Cascarino thought he had Irish blood but found out his mom was adopted by an Irish family. It came to light a decade after he started playing for Ireland.

I always laugh though when English people complain about “fake Irishmen.” How about all he Caribbean, Asian, Antipdean, and Welshmen who’ve represented England in cricket with no English blood. Or for that matter all the non American “American” sports stars like Navratilova and Hingis. Or even for that matter all the legendary All Blacks who are Samoan.

Dave Williams
70 Posted 12/07/2020 at 00:59:33
John, you post reasonable, sensible and polite postings.

Please continue, and happy birthday for next week. I think you are a great guy!

Don Alexander
71 Posted 12/07/2020 at 01:52:18
Aged 65 as I am, I'm bemused by Michael Kenrick's hard line against John McFarlane Snr, and impressed by John's reasoned responses.

Maybe it's an inadvertent characteristic of the generation gap.

I hope so, because both gents are clearly passionate Toffees, who contribute so much to the site.

Brent Stephens
72 Posted 12/07/2020 at 04:29:16
Kieran #69 "How about all he Caribbean, Asian, Antipodean, and Welshmen who’ve represented England in cricket with no English blood."

And what about the Indian father and son act for Glamorgan Cricket Club - Miandad.

Darren Hind
73 Posted 12/07/2020 at 09:09:23
Oh dear...

It would appear I am still causing disagreement even when I haven't posted for a week.

On the exchange between Michael and Johnny Mac.

I don't normally comment on Johnny Mac's threads. I prefer to look out for responses of others of his generation. To listen and to learn. These are Blues I truly respect... but, that said, some of the outrage being expressed is seriously OTT.

Johnny Mac got a little older. He didn't get fucking stupid. You only have to read his stuff for confirmation of that. I'm not sure why so many people feel his posts can't be challenged.

John's proper old school. He would have been brought up to believe "Manners maketh the man". His manners would be deemed exceptional in any walk of life today. Within the football community, they are almost obsolete. That said, you don't grow up where he grew up without learning how to look after yourself.

I haven't been aware of any "history", and maybe a combination of niggly digs have earned Michael a virtual yellow card, but I see nothing in his original post to cause all this angst. I personally find the fact that he is now apologising for Zombie football more concerning.

John knows the deal. He will delight in positive feedback, but like anybody else who puts up an article, he has to expect the negative stuff which comes back too. People have very long memories on this site and if they feel something in your article is at odds with a position you have previously taken, they will call you out.

It would be daft for John to cut off his nose to spite his face and stop penning articles when he so clearly enjoys doing it. I've never had John tagged as "daft" and I fully expect him to continue.

Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 12/07/2020 at 10:20:25
Christy (67), thanks for your reply, my own take on it was that quite a few Irishmen preferred Irish born players and I thought, just my own opinion that Roy Keene’s rant at Mick McCarthy during a World Cup final had something to do with that, an Englishman managing his country.

Than again that was balanced by the extraordinary scenes I witnessed in Dublin when Eire came back from the World Cup, I was in Dublin that day, was it an extra Bank Holiday, or did Dublin and Irish workers just take a day off, anyway the streets and pubs were chocca and the jot was a sight to behold, my wife was amazed but joined in the gaiety, especially with the song dedicated to Jackie Charlton, she spoiled it a bit by asking me “ Who’s this Jack fella?” One girl said to her” What part of Ireland are you from and you don’t know Jackie Charlton?” My wife said “ Liverpool, it’s the joint capital of Ireland with Dublin” That got them laughing, I think!!

Tony Abrahams
75 Posted 12/07/2020 at 10:25:48
Good post Darren, welcome back mate, and talking about Jackie Charlton, I’ve just been sent a wonderful clip of when his Irish team, actually got an audience with the Pope.

Fantastic, I wish I could share it but haven’t got the skill to get it on these pages, but great memories of Italia 90, Toto Schilatchi, and Ireland’s finest footballing hour.

A trip down memory lane is good for the soul sometimes, so keep posting John Mc, and only worry when Michael stops trying to dig you out, whilst just being thankful you are not Dominic Calvert-Lewin!

Dave Abrahams
76 Posted 12/07/2020 at 10:29:07
Post above, halfway through the second paragraph, should have read “A joy to behold” If I ever meet that word checker !!!, definitely one of Michael or Lyndon’s relations, he’s playing on the both of you, wise up.
Peter Mills
77 Posted 12/07/2020 at 10:52:27
Tony#75, I was just reading elsewhere about that audience with the pope, where John Paul, a former goalie, got into a deep discussion with Packie Bonner about ‘keeping skills.

At the end of the tournament, when Ireland had been knocked out in the quarter finals partly due to a mishandling of a shot by their custodian, Jack gave a talk to the team:- “Thanks for everything lads, we’ve had a great time, we’ve done well, the supporters have had a ball. Now go and have a good holiday. Oh - and Packie, the pope would have saved that shot”.

Brian Harrison
78 Posted 12/07/2020 at 10:54:22
Jack Charlton was a great guy a good football man and he liked a joke. About 15 years ago myself and a few friends were going to Dublin for a long weekend, unfortunately I had to pull out just days before the trip. But my friends met Jack in the hotel they were staying at, and asked what they take part in a joke, which he readily agreed. My 4 friends stood inside the hotel and they gave Jack one of their cases, then they videoed Jack coming through the revolving doors of the hotel, he walked over and said I have parked the car and here is your case, or would you like me to take it to your room. They then sent me the video, not only did I miss the weekend in Dublin but also missed meeting a great guy.
Christy Ring
79 Posted 12/07/2020 at 11:10:16
Jack was as cute as a fox, he spent a lot of his time in Ballina, Co. Mayo, fishing for salmon on the river Moy. He was hugely popular, and he always paid for everything by cheque, the shopkeepers and publicans, kept the cheques as souvenirs, and never cashed them in!!
John McFarlane Snr
80 Posted 12/07/2020 at 11:30:22
Hi Darren [73] I fully appreciate that the majority of your post is correct, but I also appreciate that you are not aware of the circumstances leading up to the confrontation.

However I feel that when a statement such as, "When challenged" knowing that there was no challenge issued, you would dispute it. As I recall, it all stemmed from my decision to abstain from watching televised games staged in empty grounds, [when the pandemic was still relatively dangerous and people were dying] in order to safeguard the financial aspect of both League and clubs. I'll be upstairs in the spare bedroom today, listening to Radio Merseyside while my 'Good Lady' will be downstairs watching the game on TV.

The 'tiff' for want of a better word, goes back some considerable time, numerous sly digs and innuendos, but I have now drawn a line under it. I will however fight 'tooth and nail' if need be, to defend my integrity, and I'm certain you too would resort to the same to the same tactics, if you were in the same position, having said that you probably have.

Michael Kenrick
81 Posted 12/07/2020 at 11:59:30

Time to draw a line under your passive-aggressive twisting and turning.

I asked you two questions, one about players being or not being 'machines'? You wouldn't answer but instead accused me of lying.

Then, I questioned your denigration of TV companies, blaming them for the current state of football. The only thing you could come up with was kick-off times you didn't like, that I apparently countered too robustly and in a "personal and abusive" manner. Dazza, of all people has shown that not to be the case.

Meanwhile, you have continued with your snide comments on virtually every post, despite claiming to have "drawn a line" under it. Please be good to your word and desist. Thank you.

John McFarlane Snr
82 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:24:43
Hi all, especially those who supported me in my recent disagreement with Michael Kenrick, your support has encouraged me to keep posting on the ToffeeWeb site. I will concentrate on what I love best 'Nostalgia' in article format, if my contributions are accepted. The present days are much less enjoyable, I can guarantee 100% that I will never become embroiled in that kind of situation again. I would sooner walk away completely than cause a split in the ToffeeWeb community, once again thank you for your support.
Kieran Kinsella
83 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:39:58
John McFarlane

As a neutral, you've been making mention of Michael Kenrick and his apparent spat in multiple threads for a few weeks. Also even on this thread you keep harking back to it by explaining you're over it. I would also politely point out that the written word can be interpreted as being very harsh as opposed to the spoken word.

By all accounts you're a gent and I don't doubt that but over time as someone who doesn't know you I've seen a lot of remarks by you that could be viewed as condescending digs. For example, comments about people swearing, dismissing discussions of tactics. I am sure you don't mean to cause offense but someone who doesn't know you could view that as suggesting younger fans views are lesser or irrelevant than yours. Or that people taking tactics are boring or not somehow real fans.

So while Michael is curt to many posters, I think it's really truly time to let that disagreement go.

Brian Williams
84 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:59:38
Altogether now, in full Disney voices!

"Let it go, let it gooooooooooooooooooooo."

Tony Heron
85 Posted 12/07/2020 at 23:16:36
John, So glad you're going to continue with your excellent articles, which I really enjoy. Best wishes for a great birthday next week.
Trevor Powell
86 Posted 12/07/2020 at 23:55:09
Where is the principle "If you can't say anything good, then shut up"?

Years ago, I remember as a teacher visiting another school headteacher. He had been very disappointed by a training day when he sent all his primary school teachers to different schools to shadow their corresponding "talent".

Back at a staff meeting, all he got was a litany of things that his staff did not think would work at their school. A completely negative response from over 20 professionals.

He thought about it and repeated the exercise sending them to different schools from the first visits. On their brief was one question, "Write down anything that you like that you could incorporate into your classroom practice or into our whole school practice!"

What a difference to the staff morale and importantly for him as Head!

Michael, why not make it policy to accentuate and look for the positive! It's far more profitable!

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:21:13
Loads of positives from yesterday then Trevor, because the frauds are finally getting slaughtered. it’s definitely been part of the Ancelloti & Ferguson plan, to keep playing a system that doesn’t suit the squad, dropping a little bit more rope into the changing room before every game, knowing that it wouldn’t be long before they eventually threw the towel in... But to spoil a good story, how the hell are we going to get rid of them?
Danny O’Neill
88 Posted 13/07/2020 at 22:10:21
Thank you for the article, John. My father often spoke of Eusebio at Goodison. To think we were a World Cup Semi-Final venue and that sadly the ground isn't much changed since then on 2 sides!
John McFarlane Snr
89 Posted 14/07/2020 at 13:38:14
Hi Danny [88] I thought that this thread had died a natural death, so I would like to extend apologies for not responding to posts. In view of recent events I have decided to restrict my contributions to articles, and responses that may arise from them. That is, if the articles are deemed acceptable by the Editor/Moderator.

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