VAR secures predicted Everton defeat

Silva finally changes his formation but I'm not sure the timing and choices are right.

Watching Norwich play really well against Arsenal, we are in serious danger of going down this season, anyone who says otherwise is a clouded individual.

I fancy Tom Davies could be a busy boy today looking at who else shares the midfield duties with him.

On a completely different issue, but one that has been mused upon at different times on TW: the time taken on the sideline with instructions, tablets and flip charts when introducing subs.

Ahead of our game today I've just watched a lunch time sports program here in Brazil and naturally they had a fair bit to say about Flamengo and their success in the last week.

In last Saturday's final Jorge Jesus introduced his 34-year-old experienced club captain Diego into the fray for the last quarter of the game.

Diego is a hugely influence player at Flamengo, but got injured a couple of months ago and only very recently has made appearances from the subs bench.

Before he came on, they showed JJ deep in conversation with him, making lots of hand gestures. The reporter asked Diego what the manager said to him. He just laughed and replied: "I haven't got a clue! I was in my own zone, thinking about the state of the game and what I could do. The only thing I recall is when the manager gave me a kiss and told me to get us a goal!"

He did. It was his long pass that the River Plate centre backs messed up to gift Gabigol the winner.

I fancy Diego speaks for the vast majority of footballers who every week endure the same in-depth briefing when subbed in.

But who knows what will happen when the game starts. Let's hope this team shows all the guts and belief that's been missing this season, as today for sure it's needed.

We're in trouble and we need to keep things tight for now. A draw will be fine, a sneaky 1-0 a massive bonus. We are injury-ravaged and we must be realistic.

I actually think we have played our very best matches away from home.

I wouldn't want to play in front of the Gwladys Street at 3-0 up.

The ref has got me worried, the space between Keane and Mina, has got me worried, and Iwobi playing out wide has also got me worried, but we look faster on the counter attack, so maybe Leicester should be worried about that!

Pleased to see the formation is primarily 5-4-1, rather than 3-5-1-1 as Silva has played before with a back 3. It's forcing Leicester to go wide and around us where we have overloads in our favour. When they try to go down the middle, they are getting swallowed up.

Sidibe is having his best game in an Everton shirt, both in defence and attack.

Never, ever a pen. Poor from Holgate to let the ball get away from him following Mina's excellent blocking tackle, but Mason never touched the lad.

Anyone else having to endure the always biased co-commentary of the awful Jim Beglin? Of course, he saw it as a clear pen. And even when the video evidence showed no contact, he was still claiming there doesn't have to be contact to give a pen. Tit!

Absolutely cracking move, from Dein's throw-in and passes across the park, to Sidibe's cross, DCL's movement in leaving space behind for Richie's stonking headed finish.

Just a word of caution: Everton is absolutely rock bottom on the season's 2nd half scorelines, very rarely scoring in the 2nd half.

Three points today would be a HUGE lift going forward into a congested December.

Good half enjoyable, gor a change.

Midfield gaps all too obvious with that formation...and the anonymous players didnt help.

Conceding an offside goal in the 94th minute of a 93 minute game and then having it overturned by VAR could surely only happen to Everton.

And I wouldn't mind seeing that goal again. He started in an offside position and the point they freeze framed it looked very generous to Leicester. ie it was after the ball was played.

Really thought Kean had scored.

Just not good enough all round.

Our midfield is pathetic, Sigurdsson and Davies have the legs of arl' grannies while Iwobi seems to be all fart and no shit in front of goal.

The least said of our anonymous centre forward the better.

I'm struggling to see quite how he hell we are accumulating enough points this season to stay in the league.

We have been disastrous this season and playing well is not enough now, points, wins, goals, clean sheets are all that matter.

That today was another game that we have simply thrown down the pan, our inability at 1-0 to kill a underperforming Leicester off.

How on Gods earth have we not rectified since Lukaku left more than two years ago that lack of a focal point in attack?

But why wait so long to change Calvert-Lewin? I like him but he wasn't at the races today. Rodgers sees the same with his team and makes the change early. That player went on to change the game, unlike Silva who makes changes with 10 minutes to go.

But the VAR bullshit decision will save Silva because the loss will be all about that.

Davies knackered because he had to do all Sigurdsson running, he shouldn't have been on the pitch and then to bring Schneiderlin on FFS!!!!

The team is shot, we will be slaughtered on Wednesday and Silva will still be in the job

Exactly!

Where are enough wins coming from to stay up?

We have a serious inability to grind out wins and keep clean sheets whilst our goal scoring is virtually nonexistent let's be true about it.

I'm concerned that this season will be the worst in any Evertonian's living memory.

The man looks like he is waiting for the axe, it will happen after the shite game I'm sure as this team wont get close to them on the pitch.

We are rotten inside and outside the first 11, new ideas are needed asap or its bottom 3.

And sorry to do it, because they both had decent games, but two young players were culpable for their two goals.

Mason Holgate looks across and sees Jamie Vardy behind and wide of him before the cross came in and does nothing to adjust his position and get closer to the forward to either cut out the cross, or at least make it more difficult for him to score.

Tom Davies played a loose pass high up the pitch exposing us to Leicester's quick running forwards for the winner.

Much improved in some aspects. Sidibe our MoTM for me (although did his 'injury' after 90 minutes help extend the game to allow them the winner?). But it matters not a jot if we continue to lose games. The table makes for very stark reading.

Kean showed something when he came on. His side netting shot was evidence of quick thinking and awareness.

Oh! And anyone else think, if fit, Digne needs dropping and Baines needs to come in? The Frenchman was poor again today, as he has been all season.

It's probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I include Digne in that bracket. He doesn't have the pace to be a top fullback. Neither in defence or attack.

Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin – not good enough. We need a clear out. We need legs and movement. The nail in his coffin is that Kean looks a bright spark and he won't give him ample game time.

As for Richarlison, great goal but for god sake would somebody talk to him about continually falling over!!!!

What is actually sickening is that Silva was our manager today.

I have no confidence in our ability to defend. Sigurdsson should have brought their midfielder down once it was clear that Davies had left a hole.

Could Holgate have done better once he was goalside of Ineacho? Maybe a bit harsh...

In any case, it just feels like we are doomed...

Oh and the first scenario would be us going out of business.

ps: I think Steve Walsh spotted him when he was at Fleetwood!

We don't shoot. We pick the wrong option. We retreat. Did anyone think at 1-1 that we would hold on? I was just waiting for Leicester to score. Keane, Mina and Holgate are some of the worst centre-halves I can remember at the club.

There are not three worse teams than us in the Premier League. I would not back us right now to beat any team in the league.

Silva is done. He has been very unlucky but he will, given the chance, relegate us. He should not be in charge on Wednesday.

Definitely deserved at least a point for that performance, but so it goes. Contrary to what some on here say, I don't think the players are gutless/heartless, but I do think the mental fortitude is lacking.

The man looks like he is waiting for the axe, it will happen after the Liverpool game I'm sure as this team won't get close to them on the pitch.

We are rotten inside and outside the first 11, new ideas are needed asap or it's bottom 3.

Sigurdsson... well, his days are numbered. Digne needs dropping and Calvert-Lewin – well, no support but poor handling overall.

Everton just don't have the class of players to stay up really. They can't play calm and steady, no backbone, no-one leading – it's a shambles. God help us against Liverpool!

On both occasions, Leicester waltzed up half of the pitch unchallenged with defenders unable to defend on the turn, as they have since Silva started.

These are the two main reasons Everton are getting these type of results. Nothing has changed or will change.

It's just lack of coaching and an inability to recognise these flaws. There are numerous examples throughout Silva's tenure, all never addressed.

Kean really looks like a forward, why he is not playing is beyond me. It's such a rare thing to see in an Everton side. A goal would really help him but Everton's pass completion in the final third is still woeful, as it has been throughout Silva's tenure. Again, lack of coaching throughout Silva's tenure.

Silva's attempt to shut up shop totally failed. His substitutions are always reactive rather than proactive.

Bono he is not Irish but is as stated by him a "European" hence being such a fanboy of the EU who permit him and most bill/millionaires to pay 0% tax on his income. ;)

Beglin is a national disgrace but can't hold a candle to (spit in your daughter's face) Carragher.

If Bono played football, there would only be ONE universally despised Club where he would fit in.

On the game, I'm not surprised by the result. Leicester were shite first half, we took a lead and not surprisingly did not know how to manage the game. VAR was correct: it was a goal, nothing unlucky about it.

We should have had a new manager in place by now.

Gutted for those players, including Davies and Holgate, who tried hard to earn a point or three, but quality counts and the Foxes' strikers as usual produced the goods when it was needed most.

We didn't look anywhere near a relegation team, but the result is a proper kick in the teeth and, whether we like it or not, we are in for a hell of fight to retain our Premier League status. Injuries to key players aren't helping but silly errors and a lack of discipline at important stages of matches still rear their ugly head, even when we witness a decent performance.

Need to buy some experience in the window, and hope we can put some points on the board between now and January – it's horrible being a Blue sometimes.

Two bad goals to give away and our midfield totally lacking. Davies made a couple of mistakes, but he was totally knackered, on his own in midfield.

I hope Sidibe is okay for Wednesday night.

Another loss; even though we played better, I still think Silva has to go.

Truly disgraceful. Him and Richarlison should start a drama club.

Biggest issue for me was that we were 1-0 up and missed chances.

Can't put games to bed, can't hold out for a draw. Not good, is it?

Actually, I think we look exactly like a relegation team. Soft centered, woeful at game management, unlucky at crucial times, unable to score more than one a game, incapable of not making at least one massive mistake in every game, with a manager who looks like he's struggling, a massive injury problem, and a squad that looks like it really doesn't believe any more.

That looks like, smells like, sounds like a relegation team to me.

Some time in the wilderness beckons for Everton.

Derek, you are probably right, pal, that team have everything going for them right now, makes me sick.

You have to feel for Silva football is a cruel game, but he has had long enough to have established a decent side considering the money he has spent. But, in the blame stakes, he is not alone: Brands and Moshiri must also take responsibility in this sorry tale. And unless they get the next appointment right we may end up playing second-tier football for the first time in over 60 years.

Richarlison spends most of the game on the ground, holding his head. Sigurdsson shouldn't be selected. Iwobi was playing better than most, with energy, and was taken off. Davies should have been subbed earlier.

These are all the choices of Silva. He gets it wrong each week, from start to end.

Then, for us to not once but twice give up soft balls in the centre-circle and watch them gallop off to the races... just criminally inept, despite what people will no doubt call a much better display that has earned Silva a reprieve...? Why??? Only to prolong our pain.

Of all the teams in the history of the Premier League who have started the New Year in the bottom three, only three of them have managed to save themselves.

If our club has any balls (no pun intended) it will need to start using them.

We were tight and compact first half and did well to nullify Vardy et al. For whatever reason we opened ourselves up halfway through the second half. If it was tiredness with some players then the question has to be why? Can't we last 90 minutes once a week?

Calvert-Lewin had been running his balls off but still seemed up for it; could we not have brought Kean on to play with Calvert-Lewin and give Leicester something to think about?

Our substitutions seemed to give them more room and space.I just wish our substitutions could sometimes be proactive rather than reactive.

I think if we try those tactics on Wednesday, we will not be leaving the house for a very long time. I think it is now time for everyone from management to supporters to finally admit that we are deep in the shit and already involved with a relegation issue. There are not 3 teams worse than us!

If I were Silva, I would check if there are flights from John Lennon Airport to Lisbon on Thursday.

Unfortunately, we haven't got the quality players of teams we are about to play in future fixtures. It's a conundrum stick or twist?

Good sides play shit and win, we play well and lose. Poor team and the Premier League table does not lie. If they don't lose heavily in midweek, I will be amazed. The sacking will come — like Silva's subs — too fuckin' late.

It's alright looking to get up the pitch, but maybe it was a lack of confidence that stopped us protecting the lead a lot better than we did. When you're down you get punished, so let's see if we can get off the floor for Wednesday night.

Normally if you concede a last-minute winner away to second in the league, people might say hard lines, but with the position that we are in, then bad luck doesn't come into it, especially when he can still find room for Schneiderlin at the end.

Personally, my answer is No. It might have been one of our least sluggish performances, but the game management was appalling, and Silva was out-thought by the Leicester manager.

So I don't see that as a job-saving performance.

I suppose that was the attraction — who else would be prepared to give Bill millions and still let him float around the boardroom???

Well, his greed for profit on his stake may well now get us relegated. I have no confidence whatsoever that common sense will emerge from Farhad in the next few weeks, and we are in dire straits.

Why not put Baines in that role... It's clear Davies is Championship standard at best.

Granted Everton have had additional recurring underlying problems for 20 years. Silva does not have the ability to identify where the weakness are, never mind being able to sort them out.

His situation is that he is falling below minimum planned expectations, and the bar was set so low it was never envisaged that he would not be able to achieve.

What a way to run a Club! The Board and Management deserve the headache they are now facing.

Holgate's touch is woeful, his positioning is woeful. Davies must be the worst passer of a ball in the Premiership and Calvert-Lewin just hasn't got what it takes to be a regular goal scorer.

Add on Dowell struggling to get a game at Derby, Broadhead can't get a game at Burton Albion, Hornby in Belgium. There is only Jonjoe Kenny doing well. So where is any proof that we are developing youngsters at all?

Unsworth May win the PL2 2 years out of 3 but where are the players we keep getting promised. I don't see the likes of Feeney, Gibson, Adreniran, Markelo being touted anymore as potential 1st teamers.

The next kid on the block is Anthony Gordon but, if you watched him against League One Fleetwood in midweek, he never got a sniff.

Now with injuries everywhere, you need your youngsters and I'm afraid ours are not just good enough. And finally neither is Silva! Brave attempt today but he's out of his depth.

I advocated playing with a back three today, but agree with John @97, because I'm not sure we can suffocate Liverpool – possibly because we never had enough speed in the midfield to keep Leicester on the back foot for long enough today. And I'm sure it will be more intense at Anfield.

Fuck off!!!!

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Surely at this stage we are better without him on Wednesday?

Silva Out Now!!!

We're struggling in midfield, with the injuries to Gomes and Gbamin, and I couldn't understand why Beni Baningime was allowed to play for U23s in midweek, where he was injured. Total mismanagement by Silva.

17th.

Won 4 from 14.

Lost 8 from 14.

14 goals scored.

22 goals conceded.

14 points from 14 matches.

Matches against Aston Villa, Sheffield United, Burnley, Bournemouth, Norwich, Brighton that we have lost in that spell.

Is that anywhere near good enough?

The back three were always at risk from Barnes and Vardy, but the sheer cruelty of losing in that way, nearly as cruel as last year at Anfield, is what really hurts.

I don't want to do my usual and start blaming individual players, but do feel that Bernard coming on when you're seeing out a game is not exactly football nous.

Not looking forward to the derby game, perhaps this time VAR and refereeing decisions will go our way. Can't see it going our way, but hope it does.

Carragher ought not to be allowed to commentate on our games, he finds objectivity impossible. Neville manages to praise Man City and Liverpool, but just as Phil Thompson is never allowed to watch Everton as his game on the Jeff Stelling football show, nor ought Carragher be allowed to commentate and rejoice when Everton lose or when a decision goes against Everton.

For me that's enough of a reason to get rid of Silva. Totally clueless. Jim Gavin anyone? (Only some will get it.)

You are talking about a Chairman who had Moyes on ٢ million a year the (last few seasons), even though he never won at Anfield in 11 fucking years.

The club is a disgrace — has been for 30 years. If we go down, it's gonna be a struggle that could kill us off. A Champoinship team, high wages, and in blue shed / cesspit / dump of a stadium.

Is there no expectation of this club anymore? Tell you what, we lose by less than 2 goals against Liverpool and show some jolly good guys and you get an extension to your contract, Marco... how about that!

Is that the limit to some people's expectation, that we show a bit of fight but lose it's okay? The mind boggles.

Davies was very poor today, mate. He had a hand in both their goals and gave the ball away time after time.

Why is it when we have a lead, we fail to increase it? Also, I thought Holgate was pretty poor today, as was Iwobi, the rest were okay in parts although Sigurdsson as Captain for the day could have led better.

Again I couldn't believe either his substitutions or the reasons behind them, Moise Kean yes, not before time but Schneiderlin? I knew then that we would get beaten, he adds nothing to the side whatsoever.

I will be surprised if Silva is still in a job after tomorrow, and dread to think of what will happen on Wednesday.

The longer we delay this decision, the closer relegation becomes a reality. We did okay against Leicester scored a goal then tried to contain them without ever really troubling them again, then fell apart for the usual last-minute sucker punch – a Silva trademark.

The fact is we lost again, and will keep on doing so until the penny drops. Act tonight, Moshiri, appoint a caretaker and get it sorted before the Chelsea game.

So our genius manager takes Calvert-Lewin off, who still had plenty of running in him and kept their defence occupied, and left Tom Davies on, who was dying on his feet.

This group of players have what it takes — they just need to be set up and organized properly.

You could actually argue in many ways that Everton deserve to go down, not just for the dross served up on the pitch but for the amateurish way the club is run.

What do we offer to the Premier League really?

We never mount a title challenge (Leicester).

We have had one, yes ONE top four finish in 30 years.

We never win a derby match.

We never win an away game at one of the top teams.

We play the same dreary drab football every week, every season now – regardless of what players or manager we have.

West Ham (just an example) have been under immense pressure and Pellegrini a game away from the sack yet they go and win at Chelsea, can anybody ever imagine us pulling off a result like that?

Nothing changes at this club, same monotonous results, shit away every season, poor goals return every season.

Eventually, like it did with Aston Villa, relegation will catch up with this club.

I said about two months ago on here, we are the modern-day Coventry City as they were from the '70s to 2001.

We are just up but nobody ever notices us because we never do anything.

Sidibe had a good game but thought he could have done better with some of his crosses, in acres of space three or four times, I thought he could have found his team mates better than he did or even tried a shot instead of passing.

Davies, it was obvious he was knackered around the 70-minute mark so should have been taken off, Sigurdsson did little to help him. Baines, even after a long lay off would have had the experience to hold the ball up and pick his passes better.

Silva looked distraught at the end and felt hard done by, I think at a stretch him and his team deserved a draw on the day and it was hard, for me anyway, not to feel sorry for him, even if I doubt he is the man to manage Everton in the long run.

A draw today would have given the team and us fans something to build on. That last goal, so preventable, was a real kick in the plums.

The three problems he has is that Silva never has anyone supporting him, Everton pass completion in the final third is so poor he is not going to get the ball played to him, and Silva does not play him.

Some team is going to get a bargain down the line.

The team was set up well for the task, whether by design or necessity due to injuries. We almost earned a point.

But I've been fuming since the final whistle about one thing, which Jay #4 spoke of. What on earth was Silva doing with the Bernard substitution?

At a time when our manager had the chance to be instructing his midfield and defence to re-group, focus and ensure we held on to what we had for 2 minutes, Silva spent a full minute lecturing a substitute who was only ever going to be peripheral. That cameo summed up Marco Silva.

I'm no fan of Silva's but I'd get the pre-Xmas fixtures out of the way before getting a new man in. Frankly, I'd rather paddle on with the present unfortunate than have Ferguson in charge — however temporally.

Showing you are up for the fight and working hard is the least we should expect. We shouldn't be seeing today as a positive just because we ‘showed up'.

Sigurdsson should be nowhere near the team. Bernard is now fit for the Liverpool game and Baines should replace Digne.

We were unlucky but why did we not close the game out?

I guess that will be enough to save his job but whatever became of the club motto? Nothing but the best is good enough – bit of a joke really... but I'm not laughing.

I don't want to be changing manager every season but Marco is taking us nowhere, fast.

That's not quite accurate. Lots of teams have escaped from the bottom 3 after 1 January. Only 3 have survived after being the actual bottom club.

West Brom years ago.
Sunderland under Poyet in 2014.
Leicester in 2015 with Nigel Pearson. They won the league next season when Ranieri took over.

For example:

A) “We are all behind the manager and go to Anfield with confidence” — from Seamus Coleman;

B) U18s & U23s in yet another Goodison sleep out to raise 㿞 for EitC — from Little Ms Dynamite;

C) 1-year contract for Victor Anichebe following a surprise phone call from Bill (because he's part of the Everton Family).

Answers on a postcard please.

This is all beyond sad, ridiculous, mad. It is unforgivable. And you trust these clowns with a ground move? If you do, you are stark raving mad!

Taking Iwobi off instead of Davies and then bringing on Bernard was weird, to say the least, and we have all the hallmarks of a relegation certainty; change it now!

Sometimes, I think some on here have subconsciously accepted Championship football.

It was lack of being clinical, poor decisions and bad defending.

Davie Fitz on the other hand...

We deserve nothing. As you say, no matter who the manager is its the same old story but do we hound the club about that? No, we just go through the cycle again and again.

I argued before the Palace game that 8th was dreamland and took the stick for it. I knew it was pointless trying to explain why because it should be plain obvious.

This is one average set of players and the ones who whinged to get Davies in the team are either moaning he's in the team now or defending him for being tired. What a load of shit, from crying there is no energy to defending his energy or crying he is playing after crying that he should be...

They say Silva can't change tactics; he did today and like so many games we looked fine for most of it but no players of anything dynamic to make a difference.

It's been anything to jump on the manager time after time and no doubt he does have his faults but this squad will show the next manager's faults because his options for a different system are limited.

Counter-attack is an issue for us because we are so slow. Moshiri started this reign buying half a side from the bottom half (and paying a lot for it) Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson, Williams, Gana, Bolasie, and sold to teams above us. Expecting anything but problems in that sort of business is insanity. It improved in last seasons window but we are still way off a proper foundation.

I am not bothered if Silva goes at all but I fully expect more of the same from the next manager. Hopefully Kean is the first 19-year-old striker in years to dominate Premier League backlines and run the show when we need a top performance.

Our players are so weak mentally, this needs sorting before we can start winning by using the generally considered superior ability of our individual players to gain the advantage.

I think the malaise runs through the club from top to bottom; it will need a world-rated manager to sort it but the board are too cowardly to appoint one as they will be told some home truths and have to come out of their cushy existences.

Any other supporter who visits this site must be pissing themselves at the abject negativity and stench of possible failure, that pervades this forum.

Posters are saying there aren't three teams worse than us in the league, the present league table doesn't lie, so I would beg to differ. Yes, we could be beaten in every game, but who can say that the bottom three teams won't also be beaten?

Iwobi much better through the middle. Okay that Silva changed formation. I had a good idea he'd go either 5-4-1 or 4-1-4-1. He never likes to leave his full-backs exposed.

Kean looked okay too when he came on but out of position a lot. Unlucky not to score; we need to see much more of him.

There is no credible manager lined up so stick with what we have until then. Some of the comments on here make me despair that fellow Evertonians expect perfection and wins every week.

The team pulled together today. The Norwich game was poor. No arguments there. Why would Moyes or Howe change things?

We ain't getting top 6 or relegation either way, so either get a heavyweight game-changer or leave it until we have one on the payroll.

I thought the players tried hard today in nervous times. They are just not good or athletic enough to dominate a midfield like Leicester.

Excellent first half, recognized by Sky – compact, disciplined, with an excellent goal. Then as soon as we became more open – due to an unfortunate tackle by Davies rather than a misplaced pass – Leicester take advantage. Cruel but for some reason the discipline in the first half couldn't be maintained. Fitness? The substitutions were bonkers, very poor decisions.

People are being too pessimistic about the derby. If we set up like today and can just hold our nerve better, we might get away with it. Sidibe was MotM for me: good energy and determination to get up the other end.

They are brill, I love 'em…!

And Silva could play Digne with Baines in front of him on the left (or the other way around) and Sidibe with Coleman in front of him on the right (or the other way around), making us defensively better down the wings and still quite creative...

But Silva is a million miles away from that basic thinking.

He is utter garbage.

I think Calvert-Lewin did nothing wrong, but Richarlison seemed to have a better natural understanding with Kean, so I'd try starting them together soon.

Anyway, all of this is a bit like moving around the deckchairs on the Titanic really. We need someone who can steer us away from the icebergs and I don't think that person is Marco Silva.

Give me a clue mate?

I still can't believe that Baines hasn't seen a single minute of play either.

Prior to the start, pundit Tim Sherwood, talking about the teams stated Everton have the better players but Leicester have the better manager. I am not going to judge the Everton manager on this game as he should be judged from the beginning of the season.

One thing that does stand out is his record is no better now then when he was fired from his previous club.

I hope the board don't start to get into the mindset that Everton are too good to go down, as that way of thinking was the rallying cry from previous relegated clubs. The board should be now meeting with the knowledge that Silva is not a manager that can save them from relegation.

The problem at this time and the difficulty will be trying to find someone to take over till the end of season, as all out-of-work managers will want a longer-term manager's position. So who do they look for?

There are 2 other managers that have just been fired and their clubs will be looking for a manager so the board do not have a lot of time keeping their heads buried in the sand. Even finishing in the 10th or 11th position will be a loss of TV money and possible sponsors, and don't be surprised, with the Xmas holidays coming up, the support at Goodison may drop.

A team's position in the Premier League is determined by how consistent your results are. Everton's results are consistent with relegation teams' results.

(Graeme Souness reckons that he'd struggle to last more than an hour in today's Premier League.)

Although I wouldn't be averse, I do however think we could do better, but admittedly much preferred to any of the Usual Suspects — and definitely above Silva!

There is some merit in what you say, perhaps, it's easier to accept relegation if you're one of those that keep banging on about the possibility of dropping down a divison. Maybe it's a subconcious acceptance that the club can't compete at the top end of the table anytime soon, therefore we won't have to suffer the ignomy of 'derby' days if we do go down.

The current issues are the tough league fixtures that now await us, between Wednesday and FA Cup third round day and the poor form we have displayed for most of this season. We should have been able to enter this month having built a reasonable buffer but the results we have managed so far, have been way below the expectations of even the most pessimistic person.

A growing injury list, an uncertain future of the manager, allied to a weak group of players, then it's little wonder that there's more than enough evidence to concern all of us who follow the Toffees.

I honestly can't see how, even with a change of manager, that we can alter the results of this particular group of players in a positive way, as there are so many flaws in so many important elements of the team. We don't need an exceptional manager – we need an exceptionally lucky one. Who that may be is anybody's guess – but we need to find him ASAP as it isn't Silva.

They waltz 90 mins and we are now concerned Davies got through a lot of running. The truth is he will lose the battle with them players 9.9 times out of 10 – like he did with Norwich's big man in the middle, who happens to be shite.

Tom Davies had Sigurdsson as his partner today, Sigurdsson probably puts in less tackles than even Ginola did.

We played well today in general for 70 minutes so you either say we were poor in the last 20 and should have changed it or you explain how the fuck we should have lined up at the start.

No – it's because some of us know we are down unless something changes, and that is a GOOD managerial appointment – FFS!

He is the latest favourite apparently. My god... it is scary if that happens.

A team unable to score in the second half of a game on a wretched run of form without true leader on or off the field can easily make up one of the three places available — we are that team. This manager is not capable of turning around such a situation.

That might help, but it won't make the players any braver or inject any extra talent into them that they don't already possess.

I think there has been talk of relegation for most of Moshiri's tenure no matter which manager has occupied the hot-seat no matter which players turned out in a blue shirt.

I admit that I'm more worried about this season than any previous season and that's not just because Silva happens to be the manager.

To the Championship we go
To the Championship we go
Hi ho the derry-o
To the Championship we go!

I look forward to our improved performances from now on!

Holgate: 2/3 pass completions
Mina: 2/6, 1 chance created
Keane: 2/3 passes, 1 shot (on target)
Sidibe: 5/5 passes, 1 shot, 1 assist, 1 chance created (big chance), 2/6 crosses (here's where you can argue that a better striker would increase output)
Davies: 4/9 passes (0/2 inside penalty area)
Sigurdsson: 6/8 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 chance created, 1 shot (blocked)
Digne: 5/12 passes (ouch) (0/1 penalty area), 4 chances created, 3/8 crosses
Iwobi: 9/11 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 chance created (big chance), 1/3 crosses
Calvert-Lewin: 2/7 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 shot (blocked), 1/1 cross
Richarlison: 9/13 passes (1/1 penalty area), 3 shots (1 on target), 1 goal, 2 big chances, 3 chances created, 0/1 cross
Schneiderlin: come on, attacking third? lol
Kean: 1/1 pass, 2 shots (1 on target)

I bolded what I think is noteworthy, either on the good or bad side. Draw your own conclusions :-)

May I take the opportunity on this forum, to pass on my condolences to Benik Afobec, who's daughter, aged two passed away. There are more important things in life than football.

It has been a shambles to me, right from day one and I could (and have) listed tons of reasons and not one can yet be proved wrong.

Someone a while ago hit me with a great line, with Inflation and TVriches concerned a mate said to me – this is Randy Lerner on steroids this Moshiri business. Again, there is nothing to prove that wrong in my opinion.

The money wasted could have easily funded 2 or 3 more top players and we have prioritised like a kid playing FIFA almost every window.

You have no perspective mate. We will not get relegated with or without Silva. We need a longer-term plan and sometimes to believe when things seem hopeless.

We need a manager who knows how to get teams out of the sticky stuff! Get on the phone and get Big Sam. I couldn't care less if we give him 3 million to save us.

Let's not single out players. It's a team game and sadly the league doesn't lie. Let's not be snobs about our next appointment of manager. How much do we want to stay in the Premier League?

On a related point, though, I heard a Liverpool fan on last week's Radio Merseyside phone-in make the point that Jordan Henderson is often used by Klopp as a 60-minute player – and replaced around the hour mark.

I guess the difference is that Klopp is the calibre of manager who would actually have a plan for the roles of key personnel.

If anyone suggested our bloke had a plan for player/game management we'd react like Blackadder when General Melchett made the same claim... to keep throwing ourselves at German guns until all that is left is General Hague's tortoise, Alan (or something along those lines).

But you said we can't play Baines because he hasn't played for a long time. That means you can't play him in the next game for the same reason or the next. In fact you can never play him as he hasn't played for a long time!

If you can be bothered looking at the record books, when we play a back 5 we usually get beat, while a 5-man midfield usually gets us something out the game. Moyes got us to 4th using a 5-man midfield.

We played well, were well organised and the 20-minute spell after half-time was particularly good. But somewhere there lies a self-destruct button which has been around since as long as I can remember, an inevitability that sooner or later it's going to turn sour. You dare not dream as an Evertonian.

I like Silva and felt desperately sorry for him at the end. I have never claimed he is coach of the year but you can't fault his effort, his honesty, and all-round decency. The man has had no luck.

So now we move to Wednesday. Somehow I can't see these players giving it a go again, I think they're punch drunk. Silva will be retained until then while the board dithers and will probably move for Howe before the Chelsea match just because he appears to be an Evertonian and because Bournemouth 'kind of do alright for a small club'.

Whoever, whatever – we need a change of fortune, we need to smile again. These are harrowing times. Nil Satis...

By that I mean, you never saw him actually fight anyone in the TV Series, he would run up to them probably turning a car over in the process, and then proceeded to make grunts and groans and gesticulate to whoever he approached, without making physical contact.

Schneiderlin emulates the Hulk in that respect, 90% of the time, or lunges in with ill-timed tackle that results in a yellow or red card, a free-kick in a dangerous position, and leaves his team-mates stranded.

I'm emotional and pissed off and, as a fellow Blue, I respect you, but I'm going to bed. Yes, 5-man defence can be 3 and 2 fwd full-backs or 5 defenders – just as 5 midfielders can be defensive or a combination.

I loved Stevie Pienaar, Tim Cahill, Marouanne Fellaini, Leon Osman, and Kevin Mirallas – they all had a bit of everything.

Be honest, given the injuries he didn't have the personnel today to load the midfield. Like you, I'm not on Cloud 9 – I just think we won't be relegated and don't want another Big Sam decision or Moyes decision. Davy did well but I don't want a 2nd coming!

Night, Jim!

We can't score, we can't defend, we have injuries to key players, we have failed to replace key players who have left, we never win when conceding first, our home form is now as poor as our away form, we have been turned over by lower-ranking teams we should be beating, other teams around the relegation zone are showing they are up for the fight...

Should I continue?

We need to wake the fuck up now!!!

2 words: Rafa Benitez.

I look at the other 5 teams and we don't have many capable of playing weekly for them. The other 15 all have slight positives going for them that could outdo each other.

For instance: Watford have better forwards than us; we have better full-backs. Slight differences but all those teams under 4th or 5th are of poor standard.

Would Man City want any of Man Utd's players? Maybe Pogba... but I think Pep would believe he could get something better.

The Premier League is a shambles overall and to make that leap takes quality first. We have had about 6 Number 10s under Moshiri. To play one position... haha.

He can't tackle, his shooting is pathetic, and he looks unfit as fuck. Why I'm singling him out — I believe he was at fault for the two goals.

Unfortunately, the way we are going, we will be relegated. The manager should have went ages ago but people were saying "Give him time". We'll have plenty of time to think when we're travelling to Middlesbrough next season...

Pickford
Sidibe Kean Mina Digne
Coleman Baines
Bernard Iwobi Davies Bernard
Kean Richarlison

These are all basic 101 of playing football which is what Moyes did well and made Everton the team to take the next step, but then every manager since has decided Moyes's Everton was out of date and we need to more expansive... the only trouble is, they have forgotten how tough and committed and, above all, how they used to play for the shirt and were proud to wear it.

Now, we have mercenary players who love the money but don't really commit on the pitch and we appoint managers who have never been successful in big leagues with their previous clubs.

People can bag Moyes all they want but he would never let a player put on an Everton shirt who was not committed – unlike the garbage that we now call our team. I am not saying Moyes is the man for the job now, but whoever it is, they have to have a strong character and one the Everton players fear and know that, if they don't put in, they're out – no matter who they are.

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it again – Rafa Benitez is at a loose end.

What is it with Everton? Can someone please try and find out if we have been cursed???

Is this one big con trick? Get relegated and they will say they are not prepared to put money into a new stadium whilst outside the top league. Still no planning consent, no funding in place... this all stinks.

Everton's survival this season is going to mirror that of 1994. Let's hope it goes our way again. The thing that worries me is it came close in '94 and again in '97. 3rd time unlucky?

I agree with Andy Crooks, it reeks of fear and the stench of unprofessionalism. 30 years in the making, this recipe, and finally the grub in the cupboard has gone rotten.

Where's Rocky when you need him?

It happened once in this game, he broke forward and had a chance to shoot but it hit a defender and even so it looked to be off-target. Perhaps it is time to stick Kean in this role and stick with him for a few games.

Whatever happens and whoever is manager, I hope Brands is planning for the January window to get us out of jail. We need at least an experienced centre-back plus two midfielders, ideally experienced players with some steel and leadership. Plus a forward. I'd avoid risking players who've not played in the Premier League before. Grim times.

James @203 I don't think I would've been able to resist the urge to say "I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it again - Rafa Benitez is at a noose end."

*tips cap, gets coat, heads for door*

Benitez??? – Please can we as a club not degrade ourselves anymore than is already? Are these people sado-masochists?

Appointing a has-been who hasn't won anything in decades, who got Newcastle relegated and nearly got them relegated a 2nd time before fleeing to 1984 and abandoning his family – shocking stuff.

Somebody pinch me, tell me I am dreaming. Are we going to be here in May with Benitez relegating Everton and Klopp's phoney white teeth beaming from ear to ear, dancing with the Premier League trophy in the middle of the pitch in Mordor with the Sky pundit Carragher???

We are nearly at rock bottom; let's not sink to further depths, please.

We're not too good to go down, but there are plenty of teams competing to be the worst 3 in the Premier League this season.

One thing that strikes me about Everton nowadays is that we seem to buy too many players on the way down – we often buy from so-called bigger clubs, players like Schneiderlin, Delph, Iwobi, Walcott et al. Players who've been at (like it or not) bigger clubs than Everton. I question this type of player's motivation to succeed and battle it out at a club like ours.

Let's hear your ideas for the manager of Everton Football Club then?

I'm all ears.

What's your gin of choice? We could all get a bottle in to numb the pain of the derby.

As soon as the shape was broken we looked vulnerable. Going into the game we all knew that the midfield was weak and so it proved for both goals.

With 5 mins to go we should have managed the game better and either sat deep to defend in numbers or waste time. We did neither and paid the price.

As galling as it was, VAR was actually used properly today.

At what point does Moshiri pull the trigger? Silva seems slow to make changes and rarely do his substitutions impact games. His teams show little resilience. Rogers makes the sub who set up the equaliser and scores the winner; who is the best manager?

We have been beaten by Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Brighton, Aston Villa and Norwich City. All of those teams have worse players than ours but all of the managers have worked one over on Silva.

We need to make a change.

I have made in persistently clear on ToffeeWeb who I think is the right man at this time and he is a viable option: Eddie Howe is the man.

He is young and in his prime as a manager and will unite our club and fans, and deliver us to Bramley-Moore Dock playing attacking football.

Benitez is finished. If it was 2003, yes... but he hasn't done nothing in years... on top of how desperate we will look appointing him.

The club need to be brave here and progressive and look forward. Eddie has served his apprenticeship and deserves this for me.

There is no guarantee Benitez will save us from the drop... in fact, his recent record with Newcastle says the opposite.

Today, history repeated itself but the performance wasn't good to this viewer. We gave the ball away so easily, resorting to hoofball. We created very little. The play-acting by Mina and Richarlison made me embarrassed.

It was blatantly obvious early in the second half that Leicester would equalise and then go on and win it. They have pace, width, creativity, drive and a natural goalscorer led by a talented manager.

Same old Everton failings on view today. If history does repeat itself, we'll now go on a disastrous run of results like that which followed the Anfield game last year.

For people saying there are currently 3 teams worse than us, ask yourselves this: will there be 3 teams worse than us after December's fixtures? Seriously worrying times ahead.

Is he the right man for the job? I don't think he is. He's also not available, and can we go doing what we did to Watford to get him like last time?

I'm not convinced he's viable due to availability (or lack of it) as much as anything, Jer. We can't just wave stacks of cash at people and force clubs to let them leave. That's not how this works.

However, I was genuinely happy with the fight and commitment today which makes me pause regarding the position of Marco Silva. What is glaringly obvious is the lack of a striker on the pitch (as well as a few other issues).

What I am prepared to say is stick with Marco for the time being; it was clear to me that the players tried their best today without confidence and without the freedom to completely express themselves. One or two players are not good enough at this level but today gave me a little encouragement and confidence in Marco Silva. There, I said it.

Eddie Howe is a nice guy who plays nice football but his teams can't defend. We've been there with Roberto. I'd have him before Moyes though but we need someone who has managed big clubs and big egos.

The players have too much power at Everton and seem to decide who they want to play for.

Gerry the club tried to offload Schneiderlin to Besiktas. He had to stay with us being short in that department if we got injuries and that is what happened.

We bid for Doucoure and didn't get him, I am sure Schniederlin was a goner if that happened. I don't think Silva ever planned to play with him or Tosun but has probably had to.

Jer @218, are you basically banking on Howes doing better because he'd have a bigger budget here? He doesn't really have much of a track record of success in the Premier League... though that would depend on your definition of success, I suppose.

Eddie Howe, for me, would send out the wrong message and most of our players would think, "who the hell is this guy telling me what to do?"

Benitez is done in China, his family live in the area, he's said he wants to come back to the PL and we're in need. To my mind, it all fits.

To be honest, I am not sure about the legal stuff etc. There is a clause of course in his contract, but what price our survival? Also, we splurged a large sum on a manager who had proved previously he could NOT manage in Premier League.

I know Eddie wants to manage us, has stated this in the past, and is a boyhood blue, so Bournemouth may not want an unhappy coach at the club. To be fair, I doubt anybody in the game including their (Bournemouth) fans would begrudge him his opportunity, I am sure he has had offers previously.

If some of the big 'a-hem' "stars" in our club don't take to Eddie, they can play in the reserves... simple, would do us no harm, to be honest. Sheffield Utd have no "stars", they have a good coach, and they are doing fine. I believe after the clueless Marco, the players will buy into Eddie's philosophy very quickly.

If we have to pay, we have to pay. Give Morgan a free and his wages will cover it in 6 months!!

I think he doesn't know his best position and is all fur coat and no knickers.
He is direct but lacks control on the ball and plays some dead head passes.

Not much different from every other midfielder to be fair. All I see is a lack of substance or real threat.

Michael 223 i agree with mostly. The goalscorer has made the difference in loads of our games. I think Silva is done though. It has got to the point where so many don't want him to turn it around.

How can it continue in that circumstance?

Not a side that's going to dominate the top sides so all you can do is hang in, try not to give the ball away, and hope our luck changes. It has got to the point now where Siva's position is untenable but I sort of agree with some other posters that, unless somebody is lined up for the NewYear and Ferguson can hold the tiller for a while, it's unfair on the new man to throw them into the deep end.

Let's get the next 3 or 4 games out of the way.

In this respect, Silva could not manage the game and has never shown any aptitude at all three of his Premier League clubs to organise a squad to positive effect.

Him and his chosen failing backroom staff need to be removed immediately and Duncan Ferguson given charge for the next fixture and those following until a permanent appointment is made.

Presumably a narrow defeat to Liverpool and Silva will be Manager of the Month to this poor misguided soul.

By the time EFC stop dithering about saying goodbye to Silva, the Gooners will have stepped in and snapped up Benitez.

The Moyesiah or Big Sam, pastie and pint in hand on the sideline, will be our immediate fate.

That would be one smart move to gain some support over his tenure.

And not even captured in those stats is the brilliant pass to Sidibe that led directly to Richy's goal. And all of this at right forward where he never plays. I think Iwobi knows very much where his best position is; it's in the middle as an attacking MF. Where Silva uses him is another question entirely.

Of all the players we can gripe about, I'd put him pretty close to the bottom of that list. Ymmv

For the record, Moyes was at Sunderland all season and relegated them, signing shite like Victor Anichebe and Darron Gibson on crazy high-paid contracts.

We were unlucky today. The boys worked hard. I criticised Davies on the Live Forum but by the time he was making mistakes, he was bushed. Sigurdsson was shown up for his immobility, the guy is great on the odd set-piece or venturing forth against tiring legs late in the game. We got him 2 years too late.

I feel sorry for Silva on the night. Fate was cruel. But we brought it on ourselves. There were chances to boot the ball out off Leicester shins, there were chances to scythe down guys on halfway. We were neither cynical nor savvy enough to do either.

Marco has tried his best and tonight so did all of the team. We have to do this all again on Wednesday. Only this time, we need to have the luck on our side. Play Kean and Calvert-Lewin together. We might just get a few goals.

I didn't see a cross, a shot of any note, a through ball to a striker. All the things that create chances and he created one you say? That might be true. Hardly worth praise.

Right side is no stranger to him either. He is right-footed and scored from the right at Goodison for Arsenal a few seasons back. It's hard to believe that was his only other game there.

Right now, I think Everton FC are cursed – end of fucking story!

VAR was only going to rule in our favour Vs ex rs Rogers new team for so long.

Rogers brings on a sub that won then the game...a nice final pass and a VAR assited 'goal'

Our own 'Dead Man Walking' / 'One Day At A Time' manager – well, it's not all his fault this time – sees us being more and more overrun, brings on ... Schneiderlin.

The Manager and Team upped their game – well, by last week's standard anyway – to what in days of yore, used to be the bare minimum requirement.

Will he go? Will he fuck. Will Ferguson be the main man at Anfield? No way, sorry Dunc, but it's cones for you again and the nearest you'll get to managing Everton is on the back of the Daily Mail.

So, to sum up, a barely average effort-wise 2-1 loss is enough to paper over the cracks until the next game.

Edit: Their player hadn't scored for ages – gets his early Christmas present off us.

And it's the first goal ever in the Premier League awarded by VAR contrary to the match officials' call – against us, it just had to be.

Also, who said Rafa got his Chinese team to 5th? 😂 More like 9th. Out of 16, so bottom table. In China. 10 wins for £12m. Good work if you can get it!

Oh and I just came up with this one, let me know your thoughts.

Everton are the football equivalent of male performance anxiety. We kind of get it up and can't finish. 🥁

*tips cap, gets coat, heads for door*

No killer instinct nor natural positioning instinct up front to feed off the excellent crosses Sidibe put in the second half.

Fatal flaws in midfield and game management. We need a miracle and a striker who can score. I'd stick Moise Kean on from the start on Wednesday.

What happens in terms of a manager, who knows? The club can't keep screwing it up with the wrong appointment.

Massive stakes now, and this will be a very difficult 6 months.

Mediocrity can't be accepted, and now, bar a miracle, the toughest run of matches for a couple of years.

Hope eternal.

I want Silva gone, but I do feel for him, I believe he's been shafted by Moshiri and Brands.

Firstly let's say his tactical skills, choices of personnel and motivational skills seem to be absent and that's why I want him gone.

I can't though help feeling that, having had the experience of last season with us and how blunt we were upfront, during the summer he wanted an unproven kid (Kean) to be our saviour. He wanted a proven striker more than anything, but accepted the Director of Football's decision and that the club wants to fill its ranks with young talent with a high future market value.

It's my belief that this is the reason why he's still here; Moshiri backed his Director of Football and said to Silva "Don't worry, we'll give you time to get things right."

We are where we are and it's gone tits up, Silva will be sacrificed while others just as culpable walk away.

Do you want to revisit your second paragraph at 244? You have missed out the contribution of our wonderful forward coach – soon to be manager, in the eyes of some media outlets.

Ominous words, I hadn't thought about it that way, but it could happen.

We were tight and the shape defensive and we actually took a chance! The same combination and quality for the goal at Southampton worked again. A truly excellent goal. Deserved.

Half time we stayed in the ascendancy and failed to take the open right-hand side and finish the game off.

Rogers changed it, occupied the second centre-back and pushed Maddison on the third. It left the midfield exposed. Silva utterly failed to adapt or change the personnel to counter it.

The goal borne out of error was a picture Silva ignored. When Pickford kicked that ball Davies was left all alone, around three/four men.

A warning ignored, Silva was culpable and left it to chance. We dropped deeper and paid the price.

He is continually out-coached either from the start of the game or during it, a flaw that cannot be ignored.

He must be sacked immediately, again that's on the board who have been paralyzed by past mistakes. Inaction might leave the next permanent incumbent too much to do.

I did notice you chose to call him 'right forward' though and in all your arguments for Kean you called his position 'right wing', in exactly the same place.

The Kean call was wrong anyway because the formation didn't accommodate a right-winger but it further shows what I have said for ages, too many wrong calls to suit their own argument rather than stick with the truth of it.

I see we are all frustrated but some of the wasted energy in nonsense about Silva is purely unhelpful. That's from shouts he is against Youngsters and playing Davies was forced on him, to ideas of knowing more about Kean than Silva does.

That might mean he is not as good as Calvert-Lewin during the week as hard as that may be to believe.

When the next manager comes in I am going to analyse what he needs, what he lacks, what he can do good things with and stay off his case if he has this lot of players.

Are you suggesting Davies had a good game today?

What the hell are they expecting to happen? A sudden transformation of the team into serial winners, sending us shooting up the table before Christmas. The only shooting they're doing is shooting ourselves in the foot and in all likelihood, we will be firmly planted in the bottom three by Christmas. Will they then realise that the threat of relegation is a reality and they only have themselves to blame.

Silva should have been dismissed after the Burnley game and by now, with a new manager in place we might have begun to pick up a few vital points. It's soon going to be too late for a, new man to make a difference. They MUST act NOW.

SILVA MUST GO, NOW.

Today Iwobi played right forward in a 3-4-3 (when attacking), so not the same thing. I'd still prefer him in a 10, as would most I believe.

But ffs he was in their half and the 2 scorers had an awful lot to do to score, personally I thought it was a comedy of errors and we should've had enough cover to deal with them

On the ball he is reasonable and probably wants to play as a number 10 or free role.

Off the ball his head is on a swivel, he has no idea of positional sense. He can't tackle and isn't particularly quick. Oh and he hasn't got a very good goal record. Other than that he is great. 35m doesn't buy much these days does it.

Why change?

It might not be pretty, but it was working.

Bye bye Marco no plan B!

It'd do-able lads if Finch Farm was functional, because the Canaries were still bottom despite the prezzy you delivered 'em last week.

Think about that re Wednesday lads. Fucking Norwich City have scored two goals or more in five games this season, as opposed to four games from you fuckers.

Pathetic, all round.

And, for a bit of perspective, it's the RS next, then a dodgy Chelsea, then a flakey Man U, then a piss-poor Arsenal, then Burnley, then Newcastle before Hogmanay.

9 points minimum if you players call yourselves professional I'd say.

A good handfull of people have been pointing this out for 10++ years now,the level of uselessness and latent blood-sucking cum (laterly) wormtongueing from the greatest blue this entire universe has ever fuckin seen.

To those of you who doubted the incinscerity of the great agm banning /Phillip Green-loan-beholdant-jobs/share windfalling>non-funder half billionaire Robert Earl ×umpteen other Guardian published/articled scenario's
..We will now need a..
MIRACLE to stay up.

nite nite ;)

Your second paragraph puts it all in perspective.

I don't see any point in throwing foul language and aimless threats at the manager. HE DOES NEED TO BE REPLACED, mainly because he has been totally unsuccessful in trying to turn around a poor team. He was given money and many extras that any new manager would love to have.

Right now we need a saviour or a magician who can try to keep us in the Prem. Everton cannot afford to be relegated. I saw that happen as a twelve year old in 1951. It was much different then. Today MONEY has slanted the field. We just really need a major change. Despite this I will remain TRUE BLUE for ever. Please do something special on Wednesday. PLEASE!!! COYB

I don't see any point in throwing foul language and aimless threats at the manager. HE DOES NEED TO BE REPLACED, mainly because he has been totally unsuccessful in trying to turn around a poor team. He was given money and many extras that any new manager would love to have.

Right now we need a saviour or a magician who can try to keep us in the Prem. Everton cannot afford to be relegated. I saw that happen as a twelve year old in 1951. It was much different then. Today MONEY has slanted the field. We just really need a major change. Despite this I will remain TRUE BLUE for ever. Please do something special on Wednesday. PLEASE!!! COYB

Silva has been given ample opportunities to prove he is the man for the job but his record proves he is not.
So to be polite instead of screaming using foul language I will say sorry Mr Silva you have put this club in one hell of a mess and I don't believe you are capable of getting us out of it please resign before you suffer any more abuse or risk getting fired again

Another question is if we stick with 3 centre backs or go to a midfield 3. Possibly Silva could even go 532. Richarlison and Kean up top with MS sitting behind Davies and lwobi/Siggy. Obviously the 4141 is also an option as we played against City but don't think that would work and their wide players would find space between the lines.

Pretty sure if we lose it will be curtains for Silva. Our seasons aim has changed from Europe to a top ten finish with a cup run... and now to mid table and a cup run.

Oh the life of an Evertonian. At least we have something to moan about.

We had no fit defensive midfield fully fit. Silva played the closest he had in Davies. Not only was he round peg/square hole he was left exposed by Silva's lack of nous when Rogers changed to two up top. Even from defensive midfield he tried to make passes work. To blame him for the first goal is mental. As that goal kick landed no one challenged for the ball and he was swarmed all over.

Any idea were our £45 record captain marvel was in all this?

Iwobi the only play who created anything like an attacking platform. Most of his incomplete passes were attacking ones. The number of balls he played perfectly to Sidibe were there to see.

The system was foreign and there were plenty of candidates out there who are up the list on how well the didn't play; Siggy the invisible man, Keane and Holgate were shocking in the last 20, again Silva's inaction did expose them.

But lads Iwobi and Davies the fall guys? 😂😂

The writing may or may not be on the wall... slagging our own players off will never help...

Negative vibes and shouting and screaming dose nothing to help the team...

So what if we go down we can always come back up and up... keep the faith The karma gose both ways...

Top of the list is to help see the PL agenda carried on.

One Davies got tired, that left nobody to do the work in Midfield and thus the defence were under more pressure.

Holgate and Mina were 2 on 1 for the goal. Holgate kept his nerve Half a second longer than Mina who didn't back himself and Holgate in the offside line stakes, dropped back a yard and played the scorer onside.

I don't think Holgate and DCL are good enough. I've got my doubts about Davies too. They are all triers and good lads, but they all come up slightly short.

It's looking like Silva has to go, but I can't really fault his game plan for this game. My overriding anger is with the players we have spent a fortune on who are either not good enough or not producing - Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun etc. They should have produced much more for us and have let us down badly. I can excuse young lads who come up short like I've listed above. Moise Kean has yet to get going for us either. But seasoned pros, who cost a fortune and are earning a fortune, are basically stealing a living from us and it makes me sick.

I would imagine Silva won't be the manager by Saturday (although you never know). The fans (We) need to play their part as well beginning on Saturday by actually getting behind the team and encouraging them. The prevalent atmosphere at Goodison for too long would best be described as toxic indifference.

One asked why some are worried about relegation.
Well, we are 4th from bottom 2 points above the 3rd from bottom. Unless the rules have changed, the bottom three get relegated that is, play in a lower division. We've played most of the teams around us which means that the next fixtures will be against those teams deemed the better teams by virtue of their League position Oh, and just for luck we are not playing that well under a Manager who doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

Then, somebody asks why we don't play an injured right back in front of the player who has replaced him and a left back who hasn't played three games this season and last in front of his replacement. That will give us 4 full backs, 3 central defenders, 2 defensive midfielders and DCL, Kean, Tosun, Richarlison and Iwobi competing to be the poor sod who gets to stand all on his own up the other end of the pitch and given this Manager's predilection probably somewhere out near the touchline! I've got more sympathy for the juniper berry imbiber who suggested 13 players for the next game.

I'm going for another lie down...where's the tablets?

Some stats:
Iwobi: 27 touches, 1 big chance created, 19/23 (83%) passing (9/11 attacking third, 10/11 middle, 2/3 long, 11/13 forward, 2/3 square), 1/3 crosses, 2/3 take-ons, 6 ball recoveries, dispossessed once, 1 foul.

Richarlison: 21 touches, 3 shots (1 on target), 1 goal, 2 big chances received, 3 chances created, 14/19 (74%) passing (5/6 middle third, 9/13 attacking, 7/9 forward, 6/6 backward, 1/4 square, 0/2 headed), 0/1 crosses, 5/7 take-ons, 5 ball recoveries, dispossessed 2 times. Defensively, 2/6 tackles, 1 block, 5/5 clearances (4/4 headed), 1 foul.

DCL: 17 touches, 1 shot (blocked), 10/16 (63%) passing (1/1 defensive third, 7/8 middle, 2/5 attacking, 2/5 forward, 5/5 backward, 3/6 square, 1/4 headed), 1/1 crosses, 1/1 take-ons, dispossessed 3 times. Defensively, 0/1 tackles.

Kean: 5 touches, 2 shots (1 on target), 3/3 (100%) passing (2/2 defensive third, 1/1 attacking, 1/1 each forward, backward, square), 1/3 take-ons.

Davies: 37 touches, 24/34 (71%) passing (2/3 defensive third, 18/22 middle, 4/9 attacking, 12/20 forward, 7/7 backward, 5/7 square, 2/3 headed), 1/1 take-ons, 3 ball recoveries. Defensively, 1/3 tackles (2 misses led to goals), 3 interceptions, 1 foul.

Sigurdsson: 30 touches, 1 shot (blocked), 1 chance created, 23/28 (82%) passing (4/5 defensive third, 13/15 middle, 6/8 attacking, 2/3 long, 9/14 forward, 8/8 backward, 6/6 square, 1/1 headed), 1/2 crosses, 0/1 corners, 1/3 take-ons, 12 ball recoveries. Defensively, 3/4 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2/2 clearances, 2 fouls.

Sidibe: 33 touches, 1 shot, 1 assist, 1 big chance created, 20/21 (95%) passing (6/6 defensive third, 9/10 middle, 5/5 attacking, 10/11 forward, 4/4 backward, 6/6 square, 2/2 headed), 2/6 crosses, 8 ball recoveries, dispossessed once. Defensively, 4/5 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2/2 clearances (1/1 headed), 1 blocked cross, 3 fouls.

Digne: 51 touches, 4 chances created (3 from corners), 15/29 (52%) passing (1/2 defensive third, 9/15 middle, 5/12 defensive, 1/5 long, 9/20 forward, 4/5 backward, 2/4 square, 2/6 headed), 3/8 crosses, 2/2 take-ons, 8 ball recoveries, dispossessed once. Defensively, 4/6 tackles, 4 interceptions, 3/3 clearances (1/1 headed), 1 foul.

Our passing out of the back was putrid; Holgate 10/16 (63%), Mina 18/28 (64%), Keane 15/19 (79%), Pickford 11/30 (37%). Almost 100% of the failed passes were forward; this is a huge problem because it basically gave the ball to Leicester no further than midfield. Pickford was 6/25 on long passes too, because we don't win aerial duels very much either.

From these numbers, I think it's pretty clear who had a good day, and who didn't.

People like you are starting to do my head in. This is worrying and time for Everton to act. You think the championship is easy? Tell that to Derby, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Hull, and all the other teams who have gone down. It's tougher, you will lose most of your players due to clauses in contracts and wanting to play top tier football. This is not what being an Evertonian is about.

Comments like this are more negative than the ones you are complaining about. The season has been a disaster from day one. An absolute disaster. For the first time ever I have decided to not even watch the derby on Wednesday, we are going to get rolled over by them clowns who on the flip side, have build a squad of winners and everything goes for them. We on the other hand have a squad of poor mentality players being poorly managed and we still don't get the rub of the green with anything!

Also, poor management again from Silva in trying to bring on Bernard. He waited and waited and waited and during an injury to Sidibe had the opportunity to slow the game down even more yet Bernard continued to stand on the sideline. An absolute shit show every single week. I was hoping to wake up to a sky sports notification that he had gone, yet here we are, persisting with someone who just isn't doing it.

Play Davies and Baningime as defensive midfielders, Iwobi as central attacking midfielder, with Bernard, Kean and Richarlison ahead in a 4-3-3 formation. Digne loves Bernard.

In the second half, when we mostly concede goals, bring Gordon for Bernard, Schneiderlein for Davies and go 4-2-2-2. Please, Marco, do this.

Individual errors cost us the game, however, it would be wrong to highlight Holgate and Davies.
We are not in a relegation battle because of one game and because of Holgate and Davies. We are where we are simply because we have had an atrocious season.

People can point at injuries, non signings, selling players, VAR decisions, whatever they want, the fact is the management both this season and last has been pathetic in the extreme

Last season I thought we should give Silva 10 games this season, and that was before I saw the relatively easy start. What a complete disaster it has been. He should have gone weeks ago.
There would have been no guarantee binning him earlier would have improved our fortunes but based on what we have seen it would not have worsened it.

If we set up on Wednesday as we did yesterday we could get really embarrassed. Sitting back against the RS will do us as once we're broken, which we will be, it could be floodgates.

Regardless of the result, if he is still here, Thursday morning Silva has to go. It doesn't matter who comes in or when they come in, either a permanent or interim manager, Silva has to leave the Club.

We have to go 3 up top with Richie, DCL and Kean.
We cannot afford to play Sigi or Schneiderlin.
We have to at least give those bastards something to think about.

If I was Davies, I'd have been fuming that Iwobi and Sigurdson were not either side of him when he dived in for the first goal. We were set up all wrong from Pickford's clearance, “considering we were winning” but it's easy to criticise any goal, and players who were playing this system for the first time this season, and who must be really kicking themselves this morning.

Will they be better for the experience, or will Liverpool over-run us with their front three, because Tom Davies was the only Everton midfielder who knew how to properly scrap yesterday, and regardless of ability that is what every player has got to be prepared to do at Anfield

Iheanacho gets played through - Holgate appeals looking in the direction of the linesman who has his flag up. His efforts after that are half hearted (or maybe just appeared that way).

The thing that gets me is that he didn't even really appeal. As soon as it hits the net he points straight at the linesman while looking at the ref and walks up the pitch.

I know the old adage is "play to the whistle" but linesmen have been told to keep their flag down and let VAR review it. If he raises his flag... that affects the game doesn't it?

Is it that different to Mina's goal being disallowed after a whistle? The defence kind of played on and VAR would have picked out that there was no foul.

Yet, unbelievably almost, Silva persists with it, another sign of stubbornness and incompetence in my view. He failed too, in that after the break, Rodgers introduced Iheanacho to compliment Vardy up front, at appoint when we were still holding on to a narrow lead.

Silva did not make the timely and necessary changes to counter that, he brings on the most negative player, who has serial loser in his DNA on, and Kean who should have been brought on earlier or indeed played from the start.

I just hope and pray someone at Board Level makes the initiative to get rid of this spineless, clueless clown before we reach that point of no return.

We are perilously close to it but I truly believe with the correct appointment, we just about have the personnel and enough games left to prevent the inevitable, but the clock is most definitely ticking and it's getting louder.

You make an interesting point if the linesman raises his flag then instinct as a defender will be to raise your hand, slow down, notice it's offside, so in essence you're right, it does affect the game.

If the linesman keeps his flag down then the game continues. Very interesting argument for and against. Maybe this is a rule the FA should look at. If the linesman raised his flag then the game shouldn't continue. If it's linesman mistake then it's a mistake. To be fair with VAR now the linesman role is basically dead anyway. Maybe get rid all together. The game is changing so much though.

Everton squad has so liitle options anyway, unless some big manager accepts the task i'd rather stick with Silva. There is no guarantee Unsworth or Moyes would keep us up anyway.

I liken our situation to Sunderland (without the stadium), Martin O Neal paid huge amounts for average players and high wages, 3 mangers later Moyes added to the existing crap and relagated them.

In our sitation Koeman/Walsh paid huge amounts for average players and high wages, we are still paying the price for having 25 million Micheal Keane, Bolasie et al. Soem sold at a loss. Not the way a sound football club is to be run.

Add to that the loss of revenue from TV, players who have ' clauses in their contract ' that only apply as long as they are still in the Premiership.

Many fans will walk too, all in all, a disastrous situation, if we stick with this clueless, out of his depth, clown.

Someone has to get realistic and save our once wonderful Club, who has a fanbase that they recently don't merit or deserve.

I've got to agree with you there. So much doom and gloom. Slagging off players seems to be a pastime. But it's what you can expect from most of the posters here. Makes you wonder, if we were successful (remember those days?) what would they have to write about?

It's not easy getting out of the Championship, so I don't want us to go down, but it's on the cards and Liverpool will win the title, annoying as it is, seeing as Everton FC will be relegated.

It's hard to be positive with this load of fraudsters. Looks like my birthday will be ruined on Wednesday. But so what.

How much hate does it take to become that way of thinking?

The next manager has this squad. It might just hit people then.

It is only to be expected and warranted in my view that fans in general have the right to question the attitude of the players and the incompetence of this current Manager.

They have honoured their part of the relationship, and are considered to be amongst the best in the Country, only to be let down time and time again.

Well the time has come for action otherwise we could easily go the way of Leeds and other big Clubs that have made mistakes thinking they were immune from the drop.

On your other problem – have you tried RELATE?

Haha, this made me chuckle.

My "other" problem is LONG solved, I was referring to a long past girlfriend, whose memory, for one reason or another, prompted me to write my first message. I'm happily (!?!) married now. 😁

George, well done on such long support – you (as I) have seen better times. I don't think it is fair to offer criticism to those who desire the club to return to such heights and most of us are sick to the back teeth of the dysfunctional behaviour of this club on and off the field.

No wonder feelings run high on TW threads – it is simply the flip-side of the passion coin.

Adding to your point about the distraction to a player once he sees the flag go up, my question is: Why didn't the ref blow up once he saw the flag raised? I'd guess that this was the only occasion in the whole game when the offside flag was ignored, and it was raised a good few seconds before the ball hit the net, in which case, the ref could have halted play before any controversy arose (something else that refs are advised to do these days).

Not questioning the ultimate awarding of the goal, just highlighting refereeing inconsistencies.

Am I wrong in saying that, when a linesman (that's all they are these days, despite the grand title) spots an offence like offside, they not only flag but also trigger an audio signal to the ref? If so, there would be no excuse for the ref not stopping play immediately?

Far better to have sensible discussion, like Ernie, Steve and Brent. We all saw that Tom Davies lost vital possession but please do not hang the boy out to dry.

Joe Bibb @322 you left out + Sigurdsson + Schneiderlin + Tosun + Walcott.

Unfortunately we don't have anyone to replace them. Ironically because what we're paying them is preventing us from having a much bigger bank account with which to buy better replacements.

Starting from day 1 of the new season we have played in 14 premier league games only scored 14 goals and have 22 scored against us. We started with a reasonable set of fixtures and this is were we started the downhill trend.

The manager has proven over these 14 games that his game management has been inferior to that of his opponents and this is why we are in this mess. Yesterday was simply a mirror image of the other defeats we have had, where the game was lost through poor game management.

The problem today is there are other clubs looking for a manager so we are not in the driving seat if we fire Silva. the best scenario is to get in a temporary manager in until the end of the season. The problem in that is most of the managers mentioned as a successor to Silva will want long term contracts, so the next hiring has to be the rite one.

So lets stop complaining about certain players yesterday, they never asked but wanted to play, the person who played them was the manager and he is the one that should be held responsible for any successes,and especially for the failures over the last 14 games not just yesterday.

I realise now that is a very odd thing to be concerned about at your football club and I apologise to all those offended that I questioned Brands an Moshiri but I feel it is my club, not theirs.

Like someone said to me today, fans are asking questions and 2 years after losing Lukaku, we still have Lewin up front and it has got worse, Gana Zouma etc. What do people expect. God knows was my reply.

Anyone who went to the shareholders meeting and listened (rather than question these conmen) should have known there was no intention to buy a striker.

What proper club offers a manager that?

We need a Kevin Campbell.

Sibide was pushed up to far, Iwobi should have pulled him back, or went inside to help his midfield partner, and either one would have given us both so much more organisation and therefore a much better defensive shape to begin with?

We were winning one nil, away to second in the league, just a week after losing to the bottom team, but whereas Norwich knew how to waste time and make things difficult, Everton have no such orders throughout the team, and it was this lack of professionalism that cost us dearly yesterday.

Stick to those heat mats though Mark, because it's absolutely fucking freezing at the minute!

No wonder the kid is low on confidence, anyone would be, coming to a different Country, different set-up, different League, with a certain amount of expectation on his shoulders.

Yet the genius of a Manager (not) we are lumbered with doesn't play him;- unbelievable! But sadly true.

They could also put in a few tackles that would now see them off the pitch quite early.

Peter Reid was great player and we could really use his leadership, but I think he would be too slow to cut it at the top level right now.

The problem I had with their first goal is Tom didn't dive in.
A supposed ball winning midfielder threw a half hearted foot in to try to win the ball.

They broke off him, Keanes feet were to slow to stop the cross, Holgate ball watched while his man broke off him and that was that.

Young Kean is very raw, you can see it in his movement and touch and it isn't because of insufficient game time.

Keeping Silva for even one more hour is tantamount to criminal negligence while being responsible for a multi-million pound business.

Championship here we come. Thanks for nothing Farhad. All you've bought us is failure of epic proportions, cleverly disguised as a fake football manager.

I do not understand the "McCarthy should not have been sold" obsession. When we sold him he was probably number 5 or 6 in the midfield pecking order, behind our 3 now injured players, Gomes, Gbamin and Delph, and at least Davies and Schneiderlin, so why shouldn't he have been sold to a club that maybe would give him a regular game but, as it happens, they have not as apparently they do not consider him good enough for a regular spot in their first XI. He would have been on our bench also at best as nobody could have foreseen the midfield injuries we have sustained.

The McCarthy shout is just one of a load of nonsense shouts throughout this mess Tony.

Composure went ages ago. They wanted Davies in to inject some energy. Now he is tired already. Head in hands time.

1. Sigurdsson should have fouled the runner resulting in their 2nd goal. Well, he already had a yellow card so any action to stop the runner would have resulted in a red card. Is that what we wanted? Some will say that it would not be a bad thing to have him suspended but it is asking a lot of a professional footballer to "take one for the team" by getting himself sent off especially as there were defenders in position with the possibility of doing their job and stopping the shot,

2. "We should not have let Zouma go". Where does this come from? Can someone who feels this way explain how we could have kept him returning to Chelsea? We may not have fully replaced him, agreed, but Mina is not to blame as he is doing a adequate job in my opinion.

Ok, so I completely get what you're saying from a player positional sense, and had we been back on defense at that point, I'd agree with you. But you have to remember that we were already on the attack at that point, which means that both Sidibe and Iwobi were already past the point of the missed tackle, and closer to their side of the park (the right), downfield as they should have been in our attacking 3-4-3.

I re-watched the play a few times on YouTube, and it basically unfolded with Ndidi heading the pass to Maddison, which was where Tom lost the 50/50. This allowed Ndidi to recover and break lightning quick down the middle. When Ndidi made that header, Iwobi was already a good solid 7-8 yards behind him. It happened so fast, no human, not even professional athletes, can go from one direction to the other that quickly, especially morphing into our defending 5-4-1. To Sidibe's credit, he hauled ass - a scientific measure of speed ;-) - to attempt to chase Ndidi down but there wasn't anything he could do either. Basically, that 5-4-1 had no chance of developing. Sigurdsson was right there though, and as you mentioned, didn't do much of anything except watch the play unfold, and after viewing again, is really the only player who could have done anything to help. If anyone should have been covering the left flank (switching directions with Leicester on attack), it was Holgate, who seemed unconcerned with Vardy creating a ton of space to his left as well as unaware that he wasn't going to have Sidibe next to him.

I don't disagree with you that it's unfair to put it all on Davies, I'm just saying that assigning blame to either/or/both Sidibe & Iwobi is equally unfair.

He has had good moments and some poor moments. The exact thing you expect from a youngster that isn't being talked about as a superstar.

All the reasons you don't rely on a youngster in such an important position.

In an ideal world he is surrounded by capable players that can handle 90 mins regular and show some confidence.

It was ridiculous to expect any great change of strategy with a boy dictating our midfield.

Tactics will always be tougher to pull off with worse players in them same fixtures.

Bobby Mallen too right mate. Leading scorer sold again. We seem totally against leading scorers haha.

Hope our lads are tougher on Wednesday!

I can't and shouldn't debate with people who have got the intelligence to watch things over and over again, because Mark, is right, no human being not even professional athletes can go from one direction to another so quickly, and this is why I might suggest why a professional footballers starting position is so important, because even half a yard is very difficult to make up in such a fast sport.

When people used to say Glen Johnson should play right wing because he is good going forward and can't defend, I would argue it wouldn't work if he started right wing.

His starting position from some of the great runs he made had to be from deep, where it would start with him not being doubled up on and he could see more space in front of him.

No manager would have ever fell for the pundits calls by making him a Right Winger.
And why change a good thing anyway? Just put a good right winger in front of him.

I think its also why a lot of managers play younger players out wide to start with, they get more space and time to build confidence up.

Too right the players deserve criticism. I can't recall one battle we have won this season.

The right to play has to be won by dogged determination, hard work and commitment. We have none of the above.

Team spirit does not guarantee success; no team spirit guarantees failure.

Only Everton.

Tony, my point is we don't know what the instructions are in wins or defeats. I look at the red shite and they seem to have the most important traits. Fitness and desire. Plus Klopp buys pure athletes carefully.

You could explain to me an instance of tactics like where the full backs do something but anyone could argue the players aren't good enough to pull it off. Last years players were.

I fail to see how players putting effort in (like all seemed to agree yesterday) how he can get more from them.

All i see is they are not good enough mate.

He'll be out by that fixture I suspect but in the pure shock of a victory on Wednseday, what would happen?

If he wins at Anfield, then I'd still sack him because he just doesn't seem to understand pragmatism and we are a very pragmatic club?

I hope I'm wrong, I hope he stays and turns it around, but I think he's sulked instead of trying to get the best out of what he's got, and football is not like a tap, which you can just turn on and off when you feel like it imo.

I didn't like Koeman but I wouldn't pretend his first summer he never wanted Depay, Witsel, Koulibaly, top names and ended up with half a team from the bottom half of the division.

Signing the best of the bottom half and its got me frustrated as to why people wonder why we have gone backwards.

To keep my views on Silva as simple as possible. I don't believe his best 11 this season is as good as last seasons.

People may see that different somehow but fair enough if you do.

Therefore I don't bother trying to discover tactical issues when I believe personel is weaker.

Like I said above we took 16 points from home and away points v the shite, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

Did Moyes achieve that in 11 years? The tactics seem fine to me if the personel is up to it.

He keeps going with what he knows, even when he knows the personal are not quite good enough, and although some people might be able to put up an argument to defend this, football is about winning games, and this is were I'd shoot that argument down.

He was called a rolls royce at one stage. My word.

Why he picks him over Davies at times I believe its because he is stronger and tiny details outbalance what he trusts in Davies naivity.

I don't think he likes or wants Schneiderlin, he wanted Dacoure didn't he. A strong athlete.

Now there is shouts that Davies was tired yesterday, what a load of it. He could be as fit as possible and 9 times out of 10 Ndidi wins any battle with him.

Its crazy how we don't see the compromise with developing players.

There is some calls for Benigime now. I just can't believe how as a fanbase we cannot see these ideas don't add up.

How can there be calls for a youth player that looked out of depth last time around combined with expectations for the manager to get better from players?

Thats somewhere near insanity and I thought my frustration was unhealthy.

This is what really truly pisses me off, hypothetically, let's just say the Board had granted his wishes and coughed up the inflated sum, would he have improved us?

Again, hypothetically, although one man does not make a team tick, has he been that good, Watford have improved?. ………………………………………… No!

Again hypothetically, assuming the Board had bought him would he have improved us?

Personally I believe it would have not made a scrap of difference, only my very humble opinion by the way.

I can to a very large degree understand, why the aforementioned Board has/had not acceded to his wishes.

The next Manager possibly would not see him as a pivotal figure, and either not play him or sell him on for half the price.

Silva, in my opinion is the weakest Manager I have ever come across at Everton. Why the fuck was he head-hunted?

Double barrelled Human Canon required ( that can reach beyond the moon) load Silva and Schneiderlin, and set it into motion.

This would not only serve as a lesson to any other nee'rdowells but rid our Club of the root problem.

Oh, and I wasn't disputing whether or not we did look at him; I know we did. Just that when someone brings him up multiple times it seems like the person who does is in favor of him.

Big, strong, athletic and won't be bullied or dominated. Teams tick better when the attributes are better.

This is my whole point on the Davies debate and I hate to say but it is spot on.

Look around the top sides. Power in midfield. Dacoure could have been down the list of targets and budget brought us to his name but he has what is needed to an extent.

Obviously skill and better attributes take us back up the prices but if people can't see why Dacoure or the likes are better equipped than Davies right now, I don't know why they'd bother with football.

He said during the summer that Schneiderlin wasn't part of his plans and hence wanted the three of Gomes, Doucoure and Gbamin to replace Gueye Mac and Scneids.

You have continually discredited Morgan on here and many believe that he is the managers favourite. In truth it's a case of not having suitable alternatives rightly or wrongly whom the manager believes have the attributes for that role.

Brands brought in Gomes and Delph who are injury prone hence when Gbamin suffered his bad injury then our reliance on Morgan. Doucoure would have been excellent for us as he can play all three midfield roles and has energy and dynamism that we have lost since Gueye.

I'm not saying he's my choice or he is worth the money but you either back the manager or sack him and don't handcuff him. If they didn't trust Silvas judgement in the area where we most needed then not a wonder the spine of our team is so weak.

Personally I think we would be a different team with that signing. For starters we would be beginning games with an extra player and one who can do the job asked.

I do appreciate reading the posts with perspective though. It gives me hope.

"4-3-3 is my system, depending on my number six."

and

"If we play Schneiderlin, he is a player who likes to play more alone which gives more freedom to the other two midfielders and this is the system I use more"

These are the two comments that stand out for me. Schniederlin behind two other midfielders in a 433. But we have not seen this at all. Not from the start in any game. That Silva went straight for 4231 in pre-season and never tried the 433 tells you that once he started coaching Schneiderlin he knew that he could not play him in the 433.

The next manager will have to play Schniederlin as well. Gomes, Gbamin and Delph are all injured. Even Baningime is injured. There's no one else. Schniederlin will still be here next season too, he will still be one of our top earners and he will still get games as a result. Same with Sigurdsson. We're stuck with them and we cannot just get rid of them.

Rock and a hard place Steve.

I feel the Doucoure deal was crucial. His game time would have been so limited that the Turkish links seemed plausible. I think considering he had only Gbamin (may not adapt) and Delph(injury prone) as his competitors allied to the fact that neither Silva nor the club wanted him to go unless we bagged Doucoure meant he was destined to stay.

He has to work with what he has if there is no great player there.
Lets just stick to reality, Gomes and Gbamin are fit, he doesn't play does he.

Its simple maths equations. If they are fit then he doesn't play Schneiderlin because we bought Delph.

It feels crazy explaining this because Schnide ability almost joined Besiktas.

The problem in fairness to Schneiderlin is that he has never been a defensive midfielder and hasn't the tools for the job. He was a box to box player at Southampton with his athleticism, technique and late running into the box his main attributes. Since his legs have gone he has been given that role first by Koeman purely because he can do no others.

He doesn't read the game very well, isn't aggressive and isn't a great tackler. He relies on his experience and strength to make him an option there. Whether another coach will consider him will depend on options as not many will want our centre halves to be exposed.

If explaining something makes you feel crazy Paul, why does it make you feel that way?

He almost went to Besiktas, so that makes him a good player? The pro's have got it right and the fans have got it wrong? I wouldn't ever play Morgan Schniderlin for Everton, which is also a very simple equation to make, because he adds nothing to the team, and looks like he would sooner be somewhere else, and maybe if I had a professional relationship with the player I would be able to understand why?

Silva has tried to sideline him, but injuries meant he got back in. He's like a bad smell that won't go away. That he has been a good player in the past only makes it the more infuriating.

And Conor, my old (about a week lol) nemesis, @387 you suggest that Brands "either support the manager [by giving him what he wants]," or sack him. Are those three only two options? Despite stating that Doucoure wouldn't be your choice, are you saying that Brands should have signed him anyway simply because Silva wanted him? Struggling with the logic here.

What's funny is that we have 3 Silva apologists here who aren't even on the same page lol.

You refer to us as apologists for Silva who don't agree. The reasons are probably because we are three posters who have analytical minds who don't follow the crowd. If you listen to Steve he believes Silva is the right man, I have always hoped he was but was never my choice and Paul seems like he supports all the managers we have whether he likes them or not.

Steve and Paul always speak of the centre forward as that is one way of buying both Silva and Brands time. I never asked or speak of a centre forward as I like Kean and feel our priority was consolidating our strength from last season i.e. Centre back and Centre mid and its for this reason why I feel the manager needed backed. We spend 2/3 of the Doucoure money on Iwobi but the difference to our team would have been enormous. Look at the Leicester goals- do you think if Doucoure was playing there they would have burst through our midfield without a tackle and unchallenged with his power and pace?

I hated Sam Allardyce,thought it was a terrible appointment but when he asked for Tosun I'm glad he was backed because it would have been foolish to buy someone like Defoe when he favours direct football.
Don't forget Silva wanted Ricky last year and he was vindicated, Doucoure was important to Silva for the spine, for character and for versatility in positions and systems.

Your view is wrenched with Brands. Even on this thread your praising Iwobi and Sidibe again (his signings) and take umbrage with those that question him at all as if we are attacking your mother.

How do you think the Scum fans would react if they sold Van Dijk and Fabinho and brought in some young talented forwards and a right back to challenge Arnold. How do you think their title charge would go if you rip out the spine and replace with unproven talent?

You have argued that Gueye wanted to go so he had to...well this was Silvas solution to mitigate the risk and not become the disaster it has.

I also like and rate Kean. I also like and rate Calvert-Lewin. I still think we needed a goalscorer, but our failure to offload Tosun is due to the wages the previous regime gave him and the price they paid for him. I blame the above and FFP for our failure to land the winger and centre-midfielder.

A Director of Football needs a good few years to judge his work, You can only see now, with the wages given out by Walsh, the damage he has done to the club. A club with money, and a massive wage bill, is constrained by his incompetence.

As for Gueye, I accept in modern football that once a player wants to go, you can't keep hold of them. But we don't know the full story there.

These things are rather complicated.

As for divisive terms like "Apologist", is there any need for that? We're all Evertonians and want the best for Everton and we need a united fanbase right now. There's a Derby in just over 24 hours. So let's pull together as one.

What any of us think on Silva or Brands doesn't really matter. None of us can influence anything. debate things and discuss them, but let's not fall out over it and use divisive labels.

For me we should never been looking at either. The club had from January to deal with two really crucial positions just to consolidate before we could consider improving.

Zouma was never coming and Timori was never coming Permanently. Had Timori come yes it would have papered over cracks but we would have been back to square one next summer.

It always seems though Steve that when a player wants to go he gets his wish at Everton but when it's us that wants the unsettled player they have no problem with doing the best for their clubs and fighting us off.

I don't turn anything into Brands vs. Silva. I simply defend Brands, whereas it's not hard to read the tea leaves to arrive at the conclusion that "Brands failed Silva, it's not fair to him, so Brands is bad." I don't know why you take such umbrage at the word apologist. I'm a Brands apologist and wouldn't care in the least to be called such. I'd love to be a unified front, but do you read 95% of the comments here? Good luck with that. Easily the most negative Everton forum in existence. Unless you mean unified in hatred of everything from Moshiri down to our back-up midfielders. You're 98% of the way toward that goal then. I'm one of only a FEW optimists who tries to find the positives in just about everything, but no one even gives a shit because they're too busy ranting about literally everything.

Steve has by far the most balanced, reasonable views here, and ironically is the biggest Silva supporter here. That at least indicates that he's taking a 360-degree view of things. There aren't enough fingers and toes in my entire extended family to start naming regular posters who could take a page or 3 out of Steve's book.

All the -i heard this and heard that, isn't a point at all. If the horses mouth doesn't open, how can we speak for them?

Does going for Tomori (something we do know, or were told) sound like he was going for someone with premiership experience? Chelsea said no, not Silva.

Or do we reduce that one to, he said premiership experience but as long as they played in the championship for Promotion hopefuls, that is ok.

Conor is going with what we do know, no striker and no Centre Half. No fan can say they didn't want them players either and only Billy Bullshit could convince himself Silva would only take Premiership experience up front.

There is some outrageous defence for Brands. Fans should want every top player nevermind a certain position.

Things just get silly. Silva only wanted premiership experience but just think about it Steve. If Brands says I have convinced Koulibaly, is Silva saying No?

I agree Brands is tied to the previous regime to an extent Steve and that has been a problem of course, but until we know the list of players he supposedly was refused then why speculate.

Digne Mina Gomes Bernard. Where did they come from? Certainly not the premiership. I don't know how you go from such well constructed points to hearsay.

I don't hate Brands at all either. 80% of ?what he has pulled off has been great for us as a team but 20% has messed the starting 11 up this season.

He is no superman and made a cock up but it still doesn't mean he is useless either.

I think the manager should have definitely been given his wish or else we shouldn't have sold Gueye. My argument is that Iwobi is not a necessity even though I like him and I'm speaking overall in terms of this season and not blaming him for anything in the Leicester game.

You are actually arguing with me about criticisms Steve levelled at you and then praising Steve for having a balanced view. I'm sorry I can't believe that our summer window hasnt failed the current manager but I would feel the same with any manager and you are the only poster who sees this window as a success.

Last week you accuse me of being a hater of Silva, this week I'm an apologist, all because I'm trying to explain why the manager is continually playing a player whom he knows is not of the required standard and when he's had options he deemed viable Schneiderlin was out of the team and even the squad.

I agree with you now though. It is a working relationship they have had to pull together. After last summer it wouldn't be crazy to suggest Silva was happy to be working with Brands?

I wouldn't mind betting after last seasons success in the market he has discussed names and left him to it.

Anyone who couldn't see Silva felt let down in his press conference before Palace needs to watch it again.

1) Ok, thanks. I never saw your McTominay shout, so fair play.

2) This is the round & round portion of our ongoing discussion. There isn't any consistency IMO to use "Silva wanted Doucoure" and "we shouldn't have sold Gana" and "Iwobi wasn't a necessity" as all equal to make a point, because not a one of the 3 play the same position. But ok, let's just say we shouldn't have sold Gana because we couldn't get Doucoure (that's your point, not mine), but by that logic, we did get Gbamin, or did we not? Gbamin assumes the role of Gana, which mitigates not getting Doucoure. Again, I don't think this, but it's what you've pieced together. Iwobi is basically irrelevant to the conversation, except for the fact that we got him AND Gbamin for what Doucoure would have cost. Bad business, that. And Gbamin got hurt, in large part because of Silva rushing him back on no training camp, and our medical staff being about on par with Dr. Nick from the Simpsons. I know there's a lot to unpack there, but it wasn't easy to tie everything together from your somewhat scattered comment.

3) I must have missed Mr. Fern's criticisms of me. Steve aligns with my thoughts on almost everything re: Brands. What'd I miss? As far as the window being a success or not, I now see where the divide is. I view it as a success in terms of building a tightly-knit core of players around the same age, who can easily mesh in the same system or style of play, who will only raise in value, and who should give us a far more consistently successful team moving forward. Fellas like you view it as a failure because it didn't address a few needs for right NOW. Which appears to be 1) not replacing Zouma, 2) not replacing Gana (still don't know this), and 3) not getting a "proven striker" (which has rapidly become my most hated phrase of the year). That's fine, those misses didn't help us for 2019/20. But I, like many, perhaps naively believed that we were in NO danger this year with the talent we already had. If I had the ability to know that Gbamin, Gomes, Bernard, Delph were going to be injured for most/all of the year to date, or that Silva would take 9 games to actually try to bed in some of our new talent, or that Silva would not give Kean a real go at all, then sure, I'd be right there with you. But since no one DID know those things would happen, then our assembled squad in mid-August was absolutely a top 6 challenger. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

4) I guess I missed this part. The 'apologist' comment was me taking your criticisms of what Brands didn't do for Silva as a defense of Silva. Many, many times, so not just this isolated incident. If that was an incorrect leap in my logic, ok, I accept that. Steve is possibly the only person here I can think of who defends both with equal vigor and passion. I've basically come to assume that criticizing Brands for what he didn't do for Silva is equal to defending Silva. It's really not that large of a leap IMO, but again, ok.

There is so, so, so much complaining here, about every single person related to Everton FC, it's not easy to find unbiased criticism.

1- cool

2-Silva wanted Doucoure, Gbamin and Gomes to replace Gueye,Mac and Schneids and make the midfield stronger. Doucoure could provide Siggy with competition or any other midfield role and is always fit. We have limited finances so I would love 6 or so players but it ain't going to happen so in my view we should have pushed through Doucoure as Iwobi was less of a priority to the teams needs.

3- a]Steve spoke about unity, attacking each other and pulled you up on the apologist remark..not me.
b]In terms of divide we both agree that some signings may prove successful in the long run but we disagree on how they have impacted the team now. Glad it's finally sinking in.
c]You didn't know Gomes and Delph would pick up injuries? Have you never seen them before? If there was one certainty is that they would both get injured at some stage this season and with Delph the majority of it.
d] This is again ridiculous on your part predicting top six and may explain why you give Marcel a free pass. Go to the last comment on the Iwobi thread on transfer deadline day to see what I predicted and my assessment of our summer signings. No hindsight required.

4-yet I have told you numerous times of how well Brands did in the previous window, how I agreed with the overall direction, how I agreed with your assessment of him financially and the difficulties he faced. There are very few of us that have criticised Marcel but on every occasion anyone does it's like you have to comment even if you have nothing to say.

Believe it or not I too am a positive person and I have no doubt we will improve after xmas regardless of who is in charge as the younger players and the new ones become more accustomed to their team mates and forming partnerships as happened last spring.

It's always funny these sentences. I'm not trying to offend you...but I'm going to go right ahead and offend you anyway. lol

Let me try.

Conor honestly I'm not being rude but this will be my last post responding to you because you cant seem to process any information and I just keep repeating things to you over and over.

Cheers

The Gomes example. Why virtually nobody worked out he only ever plays 20 odd games a season in his best fitness I don't know. Delph, wow, a 10 year old could predict a spell on the sidelines for him.

I have nothing against Brands but to rate his position and role is boyband stuff for me. The team is my passion. I don't think he does anything Moyes couldn't have done transfer wise. He may have a sly contact or 2 overseas but so what.

We need readymade quality simple as that. I hate the other shower like mad but if we haven't learned from how they have kicked on recently we never will.

I have said this before but go back to half time Europa final Seville V The Shite. Half time the shite 2-0 up. Now today Klopp is a master tactician (nonsense) but with 45 minutes to go when your tactics should be more important than ever, they blew it. Why?

The answer was quality, fitness and aggression wasn't there enough. Seville stepped up a gear and looked really aggressive.

The Klopp tactical genius is a media myth. Pure bullshit. His biggest secret is he loves the fact people believe it.

To add fuel to this theory, Newcastle were the first team to stop a good unbeaten run under Klopp, a highlighted stat that day was they ran 0.5 miles more than Liverpool.

Its about time people got their fantasy heads out of their arses over tactics and looked at the players ability and desire.

Has Andy Robertson got a better left foot now? No. He is just miles fitter, almost PED like (but that is another theory) and stronger.

That is the last time I want to mention them pricks but I feel it was neccesary because of their rise under Klopp so lets run like winners tomorrow and take something from that scum.

Apologies to all for speaking of them in depth on ToffeeWeb.

Thanks for the confirmation as I thought it came across as a little arrogant. It's just Mark and I had a good discussion on the bad Brands or bad luck thread where we went over similar points to today's and I'm tired of being a little repetitive.

I can't wait for Kean to score, we all need a more clinical finisher and he could do himself and all of us a huge favour by becoming the go-to player.

I'd give Silva the 2 Merseyside derbies to win or he's gone. Glad we're booking the trend of hire and fire and trying to be patient but we can't wait for ever.

That gives him another Month and about 6 Premier league games (just over half a season) to improve.

I'd be all in for Poch ASAP or Mancini in the summer. Otherwise if he continues to fail another short-term manager for rest of the season. Happy for that to be Unsworth if needs, Moyes or Emery.

Sometimes a change sparks a short term improvement and we need pos change ASAP.

Everton have got just as good a crowd, it's probably better when it wants to be, but not when it's witnessing “shite tactics”, tactics that wind you up, instead of wanting you to get behind the team.

Liverpool were winning one-nil against Seville, but they had a shithouse playing left back, (my red mate told me this six months before that game) who was exploited a minute after half time, and that player is no longer at their club, replaced by the workhorse that is Andy Robertson, whose hard work hides a multitude of sins imo, and if Walcott or Richarlison, are brave enough tonight, you will always get a chance against him?

I don't know about the players but I am always more nervous for the home fixture.

I am sick of the fear Tony, I hate losing to them but they don't scare me like they are some unbeatable army.

They are a load of phoneys with alien bandwagon supporters.
The most worrying thing for me is the ref.