Moyes wins battle of the master defenders

Be very interested to see how Tom Davies plays today.

I'd love to see Nkounkou get a run-out. Perhaps after we're winning 3-0 after 70 minutes. He was very impressive in the Carabao Cup.

This is a very important game, a must-win game. Ancelotti is weakening us even before we start.

You see Coleman as a weak link?

Should be a decent open game – if our central midfield three put a decent shift in, we should have enough.

Sensible rotation and resting of players given how much some of them have played in December. Decent looking bench also.

Words fail me...

And not much chance of it ever being anything else. Dull.

Mina is a disgrace... it's now got to the point where he's diving if the ball hits him. Get rid.

Granted – Ancelotti's hand has been forced today with injuries, but I wouldn't play this system against teams who defend against us. We are solid but not creative, and that doesn't work against lower teams.

Richarlison still very peripheral. Little energy or pace in his game. Dominic is another who evidently needs a rest. Just lacking that 'zip' he has shown all season.

Too slow – or simply not switching flanks – having drawn WHU to defend in numbers down one flank. If fit and able, bringing on James would fix that if he plays at the levels he did early season.

Jarrod Bowen really does look a talent, offensively and in his defensive duties.

You missed a mention for our poorest player in the first half.

Quite clearly both full-backs are higher up the pitch and often in advance of the deepest lying midfielders. It just isn't working very well at the moment because we are recycling the ball too slowly and ending up in cul-de-sacs, rather than in behind them, as a result.

It's the pace and movement on and off the ball that is lacking today, not sticking with the same formation.

We can't shut off here and we have to start knocking on the door.

The result is that Calvert-Lewin is often too isolated and we don't get enough crosses in.

Compare that to when we play a 4-3-3, the full-backs get further forward and the wide players drift inside more knowing that we have that 3 in the middle.

Calvert-Lewin is too isolated. West Ham will nick a goal if we aren't careful. Hopefully James and Gomes will help things.

We need to find a way to be more creative and get players around Calvert-Lewin.

Too many players content to pass it sideways and backwards. Infuriating bollocks.

Mina likes to hold on to the ball for ages then make a 5-yard pass.

Davies had a decent first half but was awful after the break. Sigurdsson was awful from the first whistle.

Gomes was MotM. Says it all really.

Boring crap.

I'm sure we'll pick up when the likes of James regain sharpness and Digne returns.

Our best footballer on the day was Gomes when he came on.

Shocking energy levels and inability to do the basics.

Woeful missed opportunity.

Ah well, there's always the FA Cup?

All Everton's final-third play well contained by West Ham. Doucouré and Davies worked hard and Sigurdsson was reasonable. Most West Ham chances came from wing play. Coleman and Godfrey got continually overlapped. Got sucked into challenges, runner on-marked.

Playing Davies at midfield (mediocre at best, one good game then back to norm) was a bad gamble. Moyes knows him... looks at how WHU players harrassed him lost balls many times

Richarlison had been bad in form for many games in a row.

You paid the price for not doing the basic stuff.... passing!br>

How can anyone expect to compete with the talent of those teams above us. Cenk (fucking Tosun), Sigurdsson and Tom Davies ain't gonna take us to the Champions League.

Richarlison has also given up. Our first-choice right-back is also years past his best, and no doubt will joining the coaching team of ex-players in 2 years time.

He needs to get back on his game and quickly!

A number of Doucouré passes going astray. Not only him. Poor decision-making with the player turning back to our goal too often. No momentum.

Ogbanna had a really good game. Calvert-Lewin without a look-in.

He is so annoying at times and we desperately need a passer in midfield.

Sideways, backwards, sideways, behind the man running, backwards again. No vision or dynamic skill in there at all.

Tom had a decent first half but fell away second half. Gomes will deservedly start the next game. He injected pace and passing improved after he came on.

As I pointed out to Jay, Sigurdsson was very poor. Our poorest player by a mile.

Calvert-Lewin had nothing at all service-wise. Richarlison looked short, scared to get a knock, I reckon.

I don't like the centre-half partnership, neither of them good enough if we are looking to challenge for top four in coming seasons.

Over the last month or so, we have been lucky at times to nick a goal from a set-piece or effective counter but tonight West Ham defended well and did not ever allow us to get close to either.

Not sure either team especially deserved to win but predictable somehow that Moyes would KITAP1.

I thought Doucouré was decent and actually thought Gomes looked better than usual when he came on. Very little to cheer though. Poor performance, poor result, momentum lost. Will this now herald the start of another run of losses and poor showings? Hope not.

Richarlison was a liability today and has been for a lot of the season. Bernard and Sigurdsson are too slow and ineffectual. I never wanted to see them in an Everton shirt again after last season and I haven't changed my mind.

To bring on Tosun is baffling. Pickford continues to palm balls across his box and it always costs us. Davies tries hard but goes backwards and sideways and is far too slow. Seamus is past it.

We miss Allan. Gomes did okay when he came on but he isn't the answer. Let's be honest, we aren't a 2nd-placed team based off that and several performances this season. We're way higher than I'd expect but we urgently need to get rid of the players who continually let us down.

If Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are off, then we have no goal threat whatsoever. Typical Everton today. Always let you down when it matters.

Our football under Ancelotti, a year on, I hold my hand up it's not very impressive really is it?

Our attack has become a complete nothingness, it's just isolate Calvert-Lewin and just try to hit his head with crosses, where is the support?

I'd have ragged Richardson off at half-time and tried Gordon out there and pushed Bernard in the middle.

It's a cop-out saying we haven't got the players, have Aston Villa got the players either but it hasn't stopped Dean Smith producing a stunning vibrantly attacking unit.

Carlo has the players but he's too pragmatic, too fixated on a lone striker that is isolated, won't go with two strikers ever as a change and the style of football it's either cross it or nothing.

As that second half wore on tonight, there was only going to be one winner and it wasn't us which is a disgrace considering they have played twice since we won at Sheffield United last Saturday.

A good recent run has masked what is becoming a rather mundane and static-looking Everton team.

For me, if Barcelona or whoever offered silly money, I would bite their hands off.

What game were you watching? The problem wasn't Coleman, who attacked when he got the opportunity. Our midfield are allergic to passing the ball forward.

I thought Richarlison was really poor and, while Davies did okay in the first half, he was awful in the second. He definitely won't provide a defence-splitting pass anyway.

Our game plan at home against West Ham should be to try to open them up and go for three points. Didn't look like that today!

The failure to close down. It was just complete crap. It was a flashback to the past few winters only with a generally more solid-looking back-line.

Coleman looked past-it. Slow, devoid of ideas and just when they have the chance to go 2nd and give us a bit of hope they blow it. West Ham were there for the taking.

Tonight was a game we simply should not have lost. We were at home. Against a team that showed very little appetite to win the game. They had a chance and snaffled it up.

We continue to play Calvert-Lewin and offer him no service. None at all.

Richarlison's lack of form is a concern. He was abysmal this evening. Perhaps his head injury is not fully healed.

Bernard did enough to stay on I think. You make your own luck, I'm afraid and we toiled hoping for a chance rather than creating them.

To give that cretin Moyes 3 points at Goodison... Sickening!

I won't go into formations or starting team, it's the tempo, moving the ball too slowly and a lack of options and desire to get forward quickly and attack.

Too many backwards passes and touches. Too many slips, poor passes and negative football.

Blaming a single person or player is wrong so please stop with the Davies bashing. He did a decent job protecting the defence, made himself available and passed the ball okay.

We don't have enough attacking options. We lack pace and natural width. Ideally a top quality winger will be brought in.

Repeating another thread but Tosun... what's he going to do in that type of game? I'd rather Bolasie come on and change things. Pace, power, attacking threat.

Lastly, why will no-one shoot from the edge of the box even when no other options, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, James – go find your shooting boots.

That's 3 out of the last 4 seasons we've be lumbered with a January 1st home game and we've lost all three, not scored and played shite in all three, with the opposition not much better.

As for today, well the less said the better. We were dire but lost to a lucky break in the box they got.

His team did that and we didn't have the guile, pace or quality to get crosses in against West Ham's mid-table players. Questions need to be asked why that is.

Everton didn't turn up. If Keane was rested then, in my view, that was a bad start as the back line has looked solid.

Most of the team looked like they'd been on a big Hogmanay, too slow, no anticipation, no guile or skill to get through West Ham.

West Ham were good value and played like they were the home team and effectively stopped Everton playing...

Another stink-out, but it's not fatigue, it's hearts, minds and desire. Lacking all over tonight and getting mugged by a soft goal, which no player attempted to charge down.

For me, stick to a winning formula and minimal tweaks, but Calvert-Lewin was starved again, and rightfully was pissed off, with his lack of support. I don't think, aside from Davies and Godfrey, anyone played well, and Richarlison looked ring-rusty after a 10-day outage.

Back to a review and let's see if we can stop blowing great opportunities whenever they arise, to go the next step.

Feckin great start but halfway house and we are in a far better position than expected, but pissed off, as a great chance blown again.

Still, Rotherham, and then a massive match away at Wolves, which is a 6 pointer in context of staying in the top 6.

All have a good night and stay safe and well.

I have no idea what is up with Richarlison either as he looks a shadow of the player he has been.

We desperately need to find a way of breaking down stubborn teams as it's proving a real problem.

I am sure they done us with the same score on this date with a Tim Breaker header, in the Mike Walker days possibly?

Chance to climb up the table didn't seem to bother anyone, just a good training run out. We will get hammered by better teams with this attitude.

There is no Club going to bite Everton's hand off for Richarlison. I don't even think Koeman is that stupid. He can't keep the ball and he never could pass. What has happened is that clubs have worked out how to contain his one-dimensional play, which he knows himself.

If serial trophy winner Carlo can't motivate them to have a go every game, there really is something deeply cancerous within this club.

I'm not doing too well at the moment!

Paul – I remember that game on New Year's Day in the early nineties. That was a dreadful game too!

But why Ancelotti persists with Richarlison by himself on the left and Calvert-Lewin by himself down the middle only achieves nothing. Is that what Ancelotti wanted, nothing? Because that is what he got.

Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, to be effective, should be playing down the middle together – not apart.

You're right mate. West Ham did us 1-0 at home on New Year's Day 1994. I was there.

Jimmy Gabriel was the caretaker manager that day as it was a few weeks after Howard Kendall had resigned.

It's been going on for decades with Everton, we never have lots of players playing well it's always got to be just one player that shines and all the others take a step back. Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin should be a match for any forward line but it just never happens.

A self inflicted defeat, resting players and we are half way through the season is a joke. These players have it easy, the manager is a fool as you get a strong defensive line-up then stick with it unless a player is injured, not change it thinking that the opposition is supposedly a weaker side. Amateurish.

You could see signs from the last few games that this result was coming and I bet Carlo is happy so that he can go back to the board and say... "Look, I've got us this far with one window and a bunch of heartless, gutless and Championship standard players... give me more backing and we will be challenging for the Premier League, never mind Europa League."

Too many players hiding again today to mention. Anyone who says Tom Davies had a good game needs to rewatch the match. (I've always wanted him to succeed but he is just not good enough.) Too many balls given away, poor vision, touch and ability to know where his teammates are. Squad player at best.

Now is the time to be ruthless and stop playing mediocre players – Sigurdsson, Bernard, Tosun, Mina and even Coleman to name a few. Get the new players in or blood the youngsters.

Rant over... anyone else think we were poor today and lucky in the past few games??

Happy New Year, one and all.

Barry. Moyesie never made any such career. He never made much of a career taking any points whatsoever from teams above us away from home.

He took points off bigger teams at Goodison. He took knives to gunfights away from home.

He did the same tonight. They absolutely did not worry me going forward. However, what concerned was that we did not create anything. Calvert-Lewin has to be given more service. Richarlison has to be hooked after an hour because he is stinking the place out.

Davies had a solid game, don't understand the hate on here. We played with zero width and it cost us.

He said he'd had ‘time off' and then criticised his conditioning!

I just knew we would end up losing today. We weren't up from it from the start. Often with Everton you can tell what performance we'll see from the first 10 mins. Today was shambolic.

Carlo needs another two transfer windows before I judge him because he still has too many players from other regimes who are nowhere near good enough. I think we're a top 8 side at the moment and our current place flatters us.

We need Allan back and some pace up front. Not getting King from Bournemouth but letting Kean and Walcott go looks really shortsighted.

Ancelotti is an amateur fool?

Come on mate

2020 lost at Man City 1-2
2019 lost at home to Leicester 0-1
2018 lost at home to Man United 0-2
2015 lost at Hull 0-2

I can't remember any of those games, so I must have had a good New Year party on each occasion!

The last victory Everton had on New Year's Day was when Victor Anichebe grabbed the winner at West Brom in 2012.

West Ham played a typical Moyes game and he took Everton to the cleaners. Interesting to see how long Iwobi is out for. Pickford stopped the shot but it went straight into the “kill zone”... I still say get big Nev, back to coach all the Everton goalkeepers.

That result tonight will cost Everton, in context of the European competition qualification, unless a vein of consistency is found in the remainder of this season.

I'd like to see the match stats on the sideways and backwards passes this team made tonight including our goalkeeper's wasted kicks.

Takes me back to 1982-83, acute frustration, but the reality is we don't have the squad depth. The players who started tonight, in my view, didn't put their heart into the job at hand.

But that is down to the coaching staff, who should have had this game's importance etched on the squad's foreheads since the Sheffield United result.

But sadly, following the typical Everton tradition, the players forget who they were, who they played for, and yet again took the piss on the Evertonians.

How many teams have made West Ham look so good?

Shit-show amongst hundreds, but it's a massive opportunity missed.

Play like this vs Rotherham and it will be another embarrassment.

We need attacking and creative reinforcements. We need a Barkley type player as Number 10. Someone who can pick up the ball and run with it. I'm happy with the fully fit back four and Allan and Doucouré. A Number 10, a fast winger, and a fast striker is needed for me. We need pace and badly.

I thought at half time he would demand we move the ball quicker, but that didn't happen and the longer the game went on I think a draw was the best we were going to get. Also, they have played 3 games in 6 days to our 2 in 7 days, another reason to play at a high tempo.

As a few have mentioned for some reason Richarlison didn't look interested for most of the game, I like Richarlison but, at present, his attitude stinks. Calvert-Lewin has struggled for the last few weeks, and he is never going to turn, go past people, and score. His strength is he is strong and good in the air and will score goals from balls played in early. But not once did we get wide and play balls into the box.

I thought Doucouré was MotM and I thought Davies put in a good shift, as did Mina. On tonight's performance, I don't think Michael Keane has anything to fear from Holgate.

Look all teams have off-days, both players and managers, but to play with no intent knowing a win takes us 2nd, that performance was unforgivable.

Bernard frustratingly gets a start and doesn't stake a claim. Sigurdsson went missing. Tom Davies passing was too slow. I never thought that I would ever say that we missed Iwobi.

Calvert-Lewin looks a different player when he doesn't get the service from the wings.

All-in-all, a pretty poor display.

Moyes brought a knife today expecting a gunfight but, luckily for him, Everton armed themselves with custard pies instead of guns.

Once Davies, who looked confident on the eye, collected the ball he waited a couple of seconds and..... played it back to a defender for them to hump it forward. He turned back time after time, it was like he didn't understand the rules of football and thought we got points for making a 5-yard pass sideways or backwards.

Richarlison was awful, but at least we know he has ability.

Sigurdsson, his back legs have gone. Good at pointing though.

Bernard too lightweight and like Davies and Sigurdsson slows down the game as soon as he gets the ball most of the time. It was a midfield lacking in urgency and creativity until James and Gomes came on.

On the bright side, Gomes looks like he's getting back to some kind of form.

We need a couple of fresh faces in the starting 11. Every other team above us are giving one or two a game from the U23s. Not us. Although Gordon finally got some minutes the other day.

Tough game for him to come into. This one would have been similar, I guess, which is probably why we didn't see him today. We better play Kenny, Gordon and Nkounkou in the cup or expect more of the same. Need freshening up because our creativity and movement have totally gone.

I am not going to slag individuals. What was presented to the fans tonight was totally unacceptable by everyone concerned. I cannot grasp what happened.

None are perfect but they just look a bit better than us.

But... it's one game. The carrot of 2nd place wasn't enough so fingers crossed Brands can get a few out cuz we need a winger!!

Currently 4th with a bang average squad. Only one year in. This guy could take us much closer to where we want to be with the right backing.

Today was maddening... it was like we had 10 Schneiderlins... but to put all of the blame on Carlo? Come on.

Richarlison looks bored and like he doesn't want to be here. I agree with some of the above comments about Gomes, he looked hungry when he came on, as he did last week, I hope that is a sign he might be returning to the player we brought because we could do with him now.

Calvert-Lewin needs service, I suspect he will start against Rotherham in a bid to end his goal drought.

He admitted that he 'conned' Ancelotti with his covering up of an injury prior to an international break. Everton FC doesn't pay his wages for being a Brazilian International, they pay him for what he does in an Everton shirt. His performances recently have been below par and his goalscoring record for Everton this season has been abysmal, considering his natural talent.

There's a lot to like about Richarlison, but Evertonians need to see him back firing on all cylinders, else he should be replaced by somebody who will produce for Everton, more regularly.

Gomes was good when he came on and seem James back on the pitch was encouraging and Doucouré kept running all game.

Tom was not great tonight. Richarlison was having one of those games. Bernard was poor. The pace of passing out from the back and through Tom was so slow tonight... by the time they faffed about the only option was to pass back.

Hopefully we can get a few in to freshen up the squad as this season is a golden opportunity to win the bloody thing. Any of the top 7 or 8 are in with a chance if they get the bounce of the ball and a bit of luck with injuries.

I just want to know what rationale Ancelotti has for starting Sigurdsson as he offers virtually nothing. The Number 10 spot is too important a position to be carrying someone as anonymous as him.

I've not seen any evidence in those games where we changed a game to be on the forefront and look to win it, so instead why can't we just look to close the game out and come away with a point.

Two holding mids again tonight. One up front. Still only one forward when we needed a goal. We are clearly in a false position and the sooner we get rid of Carlo Allardyce the better.

I fancy us against most teams when the ground is like a bear pit, eg, Chelsea under Dunc. Today was just lethargic from the first whistle and I'm sure the players and Carlo would be fully aware of that in a packed ground. Even the 2,000 fans lifted us against Chelsea.

No excuses though. We were poor all across the pitch today. I'm not having it that this is the greatest league in the world either. It was soporific.

The schedule for this season is extremely demanding and we are not the only team which suffers because of that. Also, we didn't have even that 2,000 strong support. We miss our fans at Goodison, a full house would have helped us a lot.

Tiredness could in no way be used as an excuse for not playing at a high tempo quick movement performance. I understand Coleman coming in for Holgate, which should have given us more attacking options on the right. I understand Richie coming back in. I understand Keane being replaced by Holgate.

Unfortunately nothing worked. We looked as if we had played 3 games in a week, energy levels were shocking. The basic passing when under no pressure was atrocious. There was no movement up front. We're not talking about special things just basics were non-existent.

Players who have done well recently, Sigurdsson, Davies, Bernard were well off the pace. No doubt the blame that players unable to pass 5 yards to each other will be down to Ancelotti. Horrendous from everyone involved.

Not in the true sense.

We need a few players who can't bear to lose any game. Someone who it hurts to lose. I just don't see it in this lot.

'As I pointed out to Jay, Sigurdsson was very poor.'

Ehrm...no you didn't Thomas.

I have but few talents. I don't number telephathy among them.

Tom was the only one looking to pass forward until Gomes came on. That is not really his game though, hence the amount of possession he gave away. Least he tried though.

Not sure what is up with Richarlison, but he is stinking the place out at the moment. Looks low on confidence. We should be looking for Alli or Eriksen in this window.

We need to be making more chances for Calvert-Lewin. 6 games now. Didn't even have a sniff today. Looks a frustrated figure, as do I after that shite again.

Just switched on the Man Utd vs Aston Villa game and it's another level to the shit sandwich we were served today.

Best chance in years to progress but Everton always let you down on the big night.

Hope eternal and lessons will be learned.

Hopefully Gbamin and Allan will be near to match fitness by the end of the month. We will need a very tough midfield next month, who will want it more, when we play Mr Ed's team at our old ground.

But at least we are still in contention for a European slot.

Now for more ale and to dissolve this match to the annals of bad performances.

Perhaps all will be revealed when you do your second viewing of the game and subsequent tactical analysis later.

For a minute there I thought I was watching Carlo Fantastico being taken to school by the clueless Ginger Tosser. Two teams sent out not to concede, but only one of them looked like succeeding.

I know there will be posters coming on to tell us Carlo has won soooooo much with the players he has inherited, just as I know there will not be any coming on to tell us about the great teams he has built.

This club is paying Carlo a fortune to break the habit of a lifetime and actually build a team from scratch. Anybody expecting this old dog to learn new tricks is in for a painful disappointment.

The window opens tomorrow and we really need a proper mobile striker because relying on Calvert-Lewin, who has surpassed himself this season, won't cut it. Then we can get towards a 4-4-2 or something similar.

Carlo's doing a great job with what he's got. We'd've been a point behind the shite after 16 games with a win today. We'd've all taken that before the season started, I'm sure.

What the fuck was that Tosun sub all about? Why not keep Calvert-Lewin on plus Tosun? How did we end up with just one proper striker at the club? (I don't count Cenk). Davies, Coleman, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Bernard give me a break not good enough.

Tell you what, lads, considering many think Ancelotti is a genius with god-like status, I am needing a little bit of convincing.

This shite tonight was as bad as anything I have seen since Moyes left. Utterly embarrassing. Forget top 4 and get ready for another slide downwards.

If we don't look to rectify this in January, then we can expect many more struggles in front of goal.

Davies, neat and tidy, but played without any “drive”. Sigurdsson played like he did at Anfield when we went out the cup last season and looked mentally and physically shattered. Richarlison just hasn't looked right for a while now.

It was nothing to do with Tosun, why we lost, but the minute he came on, I was honestly thinking that I'd take a nil-nil.

I also think we are very lucky we haven't got a game for another week now because we looked a very ponderous team that was really devoid of ideas tonight.

I stupidly thought, after 4 straight wins, and being 4th in the league, we'd be right up for it tonight; how wrong was I? That was pure shite.

I don't think we should be worried about Richarlison going anywhere; the way he's playing, no top team will be coming in for him.

What's gone wrong? Today's team could have been picked by the Everton tea-lady for all that was achieved.

Unfortunately, he is very limited, can't dribble or turn a defender. He has never scored a goal anything like Cavani did against us, it's just not in his locker.

So again I will ask if we are starting games like this, then why not throw on Tosun early doors, have Calvert-Lewin to come off the bench to try and change the game in the second half? Or, dare I say it, play both and give our opponents something to think about, with two strikers.

Playing a lone striker you just cut out the supply or double up marking Calvert -Lewin, we know Tosun is not the quickest, but if we can get both around the box, maybe Tosun could feed off Calvert-Lewin, or create some space and panic in the danger area.

Just had a quick look.
Carlo hardly took over teams he had to build from scratch but have a look at this:

Juve season before he took over
7th

Milan season before he took over
6th

Chelsea season before he took over
3rd

PSG season before he took over
4th

Real season before he took over
2nd

We know that the likes of Bernard and Sigurdsson will be out of the team as soon as everyone is fit, but we'll persevere with the first two. We just don't have alternatives.

Painful to watch. I'm not enjoying watching this team at all.

Nothing there tonight, no vision, stamina, no heart.

Sad performance against a typical Moyes team.

Davies is constantly criticised for negative play, in fact, no matter how he plays, he can do nothing right, but, for me, it was Holgate and Coleman who slowed the game down and played into the hands of West Ham.

That was a truly inept performance. No-one came out of that game with credit.

The longer the season goes on, the more disappointed and disillusioned with Ancellotti I become.

We lack support up front because Richarlison is in a dreadful run of form and tonight was like playing with 10 men in that sense. He will come good again but we need that to be soon.

We had no creativity and played way too slow, making it quite easy for them to contain us. We are of course a work in progress and these blips will happen.

Good post, Dave.

'There can be no doubt who our poorest player was in the first half.'

Ehrm... that's you presuming (again) that all see the game as exactly as you do.

We don't. A single reading of any TW thread will tell you that.

Ancelotti has to get a tune out of this whole squad as we are not buying in this window

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who saw that West Ham realised they had a chance of all the points once Dominic left the pitch.

But it's all opinions that don't really matter because Everton just never looked likely tonight.

No cop-outs along the lines of "I can't pick one, they were all poor."

Carlo has only ever taken over very rich clubs with world class players. You can dress it up anyway you want, but he has no previous for transforming clubs who are not among the richest in their leagues and who don't have ready-made world class players, into contenders.

Quite why anybody thinks he will start doing it now when he's into his sixties is something that has escaped me from Day One.

How the hell does that even qualify as a football match. Totally embarrassing to say the least. Mr Carlo needs to start getting angry with these so-called stars because that is not acceptable whatsoever.

A fucken shambolic performance yet again. Totally pissed off with that. I only wish that the fans could be there to give these fuckers a good bollocking from the terraces. Then again, they may have walked out at half time if they had witnessed that load of shite.

I don't see us getting any better unless drastic action is taken yet again to get us anywhere near the top performing teams to be honest. Only time will tell I suppose. Could be a long hard year ahead for many reasons. All the best, Blues.

We will never get anywhere with players like hi, a m fucking big Ponce.

As for Ancelotti, he needs to get us playing some positive football or he might as well fuck off too.

Good job the Man City game was cancelled.

The season has a long way to go, but it's been like no other season for many, reasons football and non football related -COViD19, etc.

I hope and pray that the dirty dozen, death or glory mentality comes, in to this squad.

The excess amount of reverse, side passes and excess touches in today's game, for me the biggest game of the season, Everton, were in pre season mode.

From now on, every Everton player must be in the mode..

The killer pass, movement, anticipation, give a fuck, and care, and play for the Everton mode.

Half an ounce of grit and belief tonight, Everton would have done West Ham, good style.

Moyse'sset up well, and he's scored his first win at GP, in the opponents camp. But Everton were not really up for it and West Ham, wanted it more.

Everton didn't turn up tonight and played like strangers. Have they changed match day hotel or the tea bags again?

Everton, drives you to madness.

C'est La Vie.

It was really disappointing that changes were not made. We could have shook it up and went 4-4-2 with Richarlison closer to Calvert-Lewin and maybe brought Nkounkou on for Bernard to at least attempt to get a cross or two in.

It's not just the result that sticks in throat, it's the inability to counter the utterly predictable tactics of Moyes.

It was me who pointed the examples of how Carlo improves teams.

What has Carlos age to do with it? Do you not consider experience, at any job, can only improve knowledge?

In truth, the brief interruption of the 80s apart (and even then we managed to give it up twice to the RS when it mattered), this has defined us now for decades. It's why we are routinely ignored and patronised.

I think Barry Rathbone @85 has it right. There's a fatal half-heartedness at Everton, a cruising mentality. Niceness will be enough and, if necessary, corporate waffle will see off those who inquire too closely into our repeated failures.

Ancelotti may or may not prove to be a redeemer. I doubt it because I think, like other Everton managers, he's operating within a culture which has grown used to second (or 10th) best. Everyone taking the money knows that they can carry on regardless.

Easy does it.

Sigurdsson just never ever got going, trying as hard as he did, it never broke his way and when he was given the ball he was just crowded out. Doucoure tried but again there was no space for him to drive into.

Richarlison to be honest at the moment is a waste of space, clearly he's not firing, looks like a spoilt brat, never got past anyone, 2 out of 3 passes went know where and he should have been taken off. He's been like this since he returned from his 3 match suspension, perhaps more than anyone misses Digne.

DCL again left isolated, looks down, no chances created for him at all, another one who relies so much on Digne.

I thought MIna played well, but my MoM was Gomes, who when he came on fought well, passed well, and looked sharp again, at last.

3 places forward, 2 places back, forever Everton. Wolves next after FA Cup, need to be 100% better

Even though I live 20 miles north of Manchester, I'm surrounded by kopites and their smugness is sickening.

People are now expecting him to be beating players and bending them in from 30 yards. Never going to happen. Play to his strengths.

Hello Joe,

These Kopites aren't in the embarrassingly massive 5K supporters that actually live in the City then?

It could be worse, you could be living in Norway!

'Who did you consider to be our poorest player first half Jay? No cop outs along the lines of 'cant pick one, they were all poor.'

Ehrm...why are you putting that question to me and why put conditions on how I should answer it?

Unlike you Thomas, in my half-time post @ 26 (which you clearly read) I named a number of players and gave reasons as to who I (nobody else, only me) considered was playing poorly, so no need to repeat myself.

Jay.
Thank you. What did you think of Siggurdsons contribution before he was subbed?

City played their shit card to the EPL, whom, have seemingly changed their pre season rules, on compliance for playing EPL matches.

Tonight I'd say we missed Iwobi, and with due respect a fair few of the current squad may be better at Tranmere or Fleetwood.

Mesaying, we missed Iwobi, but tonight there was no obligation, no out let, no Fukien gits.

Simple as.

The life time enemy, drives me, but shit shows like this, don't help the cause.

Is the season sussing out which players are match fit for playing 2 games a week?

I'm thinking this is the case, but this goes back to recruitment, and youth development.

Tonight the blood, sweat, tears etc should have been shown by, every Everton player, so fekk, knows why it didn't happen.

Rotherham, and let's see.

For me Wolves, is massive, and could be the umbilical cord to staying in contention...

I could have done a long post listing Richarlison being impotent, Calvert-Lewin not getting any service (even though he was rarely available in the attacking half), Holgate obviously being a better right-back than centre-back (on current form) or Tom Davies reverting to type and being a bang average footballer.

Frankly, it's all been said in a million different ways. The thing that stood out to me is our captain and longest serving player did nothing of consequence with the ball whenever he touched it and barely did the basics defensively either.

The players tonight were were worse than a Business Houses or Zingari League Team, after the Friday, weekend beer.

Now I've just seen the Manure, latest diving stunt, or bad VAR, shit house officials..

Closing the Keg...

There no point in having football, with the so called rules, being bleached and taken the piss, at random.

Manure,. nothing changes.

We are not top 4 and until we move into a new stadium we will struggle to get there. Manchester city had the same issue living in United's shadow. New stadium, two more billionaires with no children to leave their money too but Everton will do.

I wonder what the posts were like on new years day on this site in 1995? Similar frustrations? Everton must get the new stadium as quickly as possible to compete on a financial playing field. Currently relying on a billionaire to spend spend spend is not sustainable.

Asking pithy questions, giving the impression you are engaging in debate. You're not.

Here's a novel idea. How about being more explicit rather than implicit and share YOUR opinion on how you view things (and why), rather than ask others to do what you seemingly shy away from doing.

Colman was targeted to be contained, by West Ham, which they did successfully.

Moyes old tactics where well implemented and most Everton players where technically poor. .

What we so obviously need is more pace and power on the wings so we can feed DCL and bring Richarlison in from his exodus on the wing.

Oh... l forgot. Might be nice to get Allan and Digne back. We are doing okay. I just hope Brands changes and brings in some attacking intent.

"For me Wolves, is massive, and could be the umbilical cord to staying in contention..."

Hello Paul,

I fully understand what you're saying, there are games that are bad for moral when lost and that might be one.

However, I have to add: "You are only as good as your average game, not your best or your worst game!"

What our average game is, I haven't got a clue at the moment, we are so up and down. The dark side know what their average game is and have a benchmark to adjust by.

The positive I'm taking from that game was the formation works defensively and it was only a lucky moment that did us in the end.

When we have all our players back and fit and with energy, this will probably be around the end of January, we will then be able to find this average game and develop from there.

I know there are many who will say "Not a surprise" Sorry but realistically if a team has won 4 games in a row and are playing at home against a very ordinary team you should expect to win. BUT... you are supporting Everton and for the past 25 years nothing is predicable. Just watch out for Rotherham

We need flair, speed and energy, and this will only come with even more additions. Other than that we will remain a mediocre mid table team. I did not like the substitutions but I still support Carlo. I am sure fellow supporters will cast me as inconsistent in my comments.I agree but it is in the Blue blood in my veins

I know there are many who will say "Not a surprise" Sorry but realistically if a team has won 4 games in a row and are playing at home against a very ordinary team you should expect to win. BUT... you are supporting Everton and for the past 25 years nothing is predicable. Just watch out for Rotherham

We need flair, speed and energy, and this will only come with even more additions. Other than that we will remain a mediocre mid table team. I did not like the substitutions but I still support Carlo. I am sure fellow supporters will cast me as inconsistent in my comments.I agree but it is in the Blue blood in my veins

We missed Iwobi and I never thought I'd say that but he injects pace going forward, and whilst Richarlison is in his self inflicted tantrum snd does bugger all, we need Iwobi.

He will never be a brilliant player but is very much a Moyes kind of signing. He's strong and very effective, a goal threat with a touch of class. In my opinion, he would do very well in the Premier League.

Tonight's performance showed that we are far away from being a top-four side, indeed we aren't good enough for the top six. Another season of a top-half finish and a decent cup run as our achievable target awaits, much as what we've become accustomed to for the last dozen years.

We are missing key players, but only Digne would electrify the team by creating chances for the forward line, and I do hope that he's not rushed back too soon.

Gerry@197: Alan Ball got dog's abuse when he hit a bad run of form in 70-71, I know, I was there to see it. All players hit bad runs, and all teams have off days. This was one of our off days.

Small margins were always going to be the difference in such a tight game and we seemed to go through the motions to often tonight.

Richarlison didn't know where he was going and Dacoure gets a little caught in too many minds where to move in attack.

We just have to recover now and fresh faces could change our fortunes again.

Having said that I also find it hard to believe that anyone has issues with DCL. His work rate is first class, his hold up play exemplary his only problem is that he keeps dropping deeper and deeper to get even a sniff of the ball.

Tom Davies is a concern I am a big fan of Tom's. His work rate is first class and has been pointed out a lot he never hides, but this evening I finally had to admit that he will never be a starter. He reminds me a bit of Alan Harper but surely we should keep him as he covers so many positions.

As for the rest of the scumbags words fail me, they had all the incentives in the world to win tonight and could not complain about being unrested. Only Ducoure comes out with any credit.

Just watched Manure vs Villa both teams played at pace and with width and with only an eye for a forward pass. The style of play we have adopted can only be down to the manager.

As to signings please God not Khadeera or Isco we are starting to look like the later days of Walter Smith.

There are something like 6 teams 3 points behind us and most with better goal differences by the end of January we could easily be in the bottom half.

Happy New Year!!!

So why do I feel the way I do about this cool calm reaction to an absolute shit useless breathtakingly inept and all round pathetic gut wrenching showing, when a win against a very average team would have taken us second and done much to give us a little headroom in this season closely fought fight for a top 6 place.

It's because this is simply how our club operates. We have been rubbish for so long that accepting couldn't-give-a-toss performances like that Ritcharlison one, well it's second nature. We don't get very angry or fed up at another disappointment. It's just par fir the course. We have 29 points. What is there to complain about ? It's a jolly good increase on last year at same stage. Hurrah. We don't need to turn up to a game we should win. Instead let's saunter round the midfield doing nothing for 45 minutes. Then instead of making changes to a team showing zero urgency and zero creativity, we wait until there's 20 mins to go, and it's too late.

I'm furious. A few others seem to agree. But it's all a bit low key. Guess there's nothing to be done. We can't change anything. Plucky Everton drifting along to somewhere or other accepting utter shite like this because apparently we have won four on the spin and this was a deflected goal. Why would we think this should have been, needed to be, win no 5 on the spin.

The club needs to get angry. From top to bottom. Urgency. Obvious desire. An acceptance that what went before counts for very little. Losing in this gutless lacklustre way isn't good enough, ever.

We should all shout it out, starting with the superb Carlo, Duncan and Davide, and you know what ? Take a few more risks on some fighters without big reps in Europe. Something has to change else this type of embarrassing shit will be confirmed as the Everton not Howard's Way.

Happy New Year ToffeeWeb.

A fair method of debate is to start with question or a statement. Do you agree?
If not can you please let me know another option please.

Thanks

I listened to the radio merseyside after match phone in. Anger pointed to Richarlison, Doucoure and Carlo. I guess it has to be pointed somewhere. Personally l was most frustrated with Richarlison, very poor today and tried to cut inside every chance he got which he telegraphed. I thought Moyes set his team up perfectly and cut off the channels.

We have 2 very hard away games coming up now and we will see what we are made of.

That performance for Everton, tonight, was crap.

Today Everton paid a heavy price.

Summing up Tonight's performance, was by miles and light ears, in the significance of the match, totally unacceptable.

Every game is the game, this Everton squad cant do x4 games, and then they take the fekkn knocks, in terms of winning.

No shit, these players have a lot to learn.

A match management and performance ethos. It isn't there consistently in my opinon, at this stage of the season.

Arguably the best game to win, today, and Everton, were blowing bubbles, through the whole 93 minutes.

So, it's my view, I respect your view, but tonight's match, performance, is not acceptable.

Players, missing or not, getting a confident and cohesive formation is key.

Take x6 more, like tonight, and we will be with SU..

I've said previously, on other TW threads, the last few weeks, that EFC, is in a far better place than 12 months ago, but, I will never accept mediocrity, in any football match.

Tonight was as bad as it can get.

Everton, were not close to being at the races, and it was a car crash, performance.

The out come is Everton, are contenders, but no longer strong contenders,for EUfA, qualification.

I wear the the glass half full ethos, belief in daily life, today the performance was rank bad.

Unite as Evertonians,ad we've done for decades, ride the storms.

That why I like The Doors..

Did anyone think we were world beaters after our recent run? We were solid, not particularly creative, and with a combination of pragmatic tactics, hard work and some good luck we edged a few games. It was nothing more than that, as enjoyable as the wins were.

After this loss we're still the exact same team. With the positives of our newly found resilience come the negatives of struggling to break teams down. And so it was today.

If the plan is to keep it tight and possibly nick one at the other end, then it's hard to blame the tactics for losses and celebrate them for wins. Those tactics give you a very fine margin of victory... so accept the ups and downs. We're probably over performing in terms of points.

Over to Carlo to swing the balance further in our favour. I do know that we're not particularly good to watch, though.

In equivalence, tonight, could be the same as after, Oxford United 1986, away..

Linakers, and Sheedys, 1 yard, misses. Let's hope not, but tonight, for me, it was the win, we had to get to stay in contention, for a Europa place.

“What's Our Name?”

Take care and All The Best for 2021🙏🏼👍☘️👌🍾⚽️🍀🍺🥃☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️

A few of the players, notably Richarlison, Doucouré and Godfrey, tried to make something happen running with the ball from deep but ended up in a cul-de-sac. Unlocking well organised defences requires crisp, first time passing and quick movement off the ball into the final third. Unfortunately tonight's midfield does not and probably never will have the ability to do that. This was a disjointed performance but not the end of the world or our season. We will have much better days in 2021. Telling the manager to go now is just laughable.

You lose sight of the fact that we sit 4 points from being top of the table, and that Everton's profile has risen in the 12 months Ancelotti has been manager. We've had a best start to a season since 1969/70. Ancelotti's win ratio has always been in and around the top 4 places, but you conveniently forget he took over a team sitting above the relegation zone and last seasons finish was a false position due to that. It's no accident where we sit 4th in the league now. His win ratio bears that out.

We've brought in some players we'd have struggled to sign under previous managers. That's because players want to play under a world class manager with Ancelotti's reputation. Branthwaite, Allan, Doucoure, James and Godfrey have all been fantastic buys and under this managers watch.

What the hells wrong with you, Ian?! Did Carlo Cuckoo you with your missus?

The issue isn't the manager. It's that we've had injuries to our better players and the squad is too thin to replace them. You can't replace someone like Allan with Tom Davies or Gomes.

What I do know is that we've made great strides in addressing the issue of wasting money on average players over the last 12 months.

The sad thing this season and last is that all you need to be to be successful is to be consistent. Beat the teams you should and battle with the better teams. The bar has never been set so low in recent years but in typical Everton fashion we don't have the winning mentality to be in there with a shout

But Villa have been robbed against Utd. At least we didn't lose to a never a penalty in a million years decision. Awful and why VAR can't say the ref was wrong because there was no foul and Pogba tripped himself up.

I'm almost glad bad luck lost us a point rather than poor refereeing and VAR.

However maybe we lost because the opposition brought on good attacking players and went for the win. Skilful, mobile attacking players, they had a few good attempts and put us under pressure near the end.

We brought on James and Gomes to try and create through passing. But we only had DCL and Ric to pass too. Then DCL was hooked for Tosun loosing pace and height. I didn't agree with subs but I rarely do.

But the point is we lack attacking options, both in quality and intent.
We didn't really rest our key players, had extra recovery time and looked awful for it.

Carlo needs to dish the dirt and fish for a response and reinforcements. Is King still available or that type of player. Pace, power, creativity and goals.

I'd take Isco but no thanks to Sam K, we have that type of player already.

Today, as if it was needed, showed again how poor the squad depth is, Carlo rotated for various reasons but those given a chance flunked it again. I thought only Doucoure and Godfrey realistically showed any desire not to lose, unfortunately they were fighting a losing 2 handed battle.

One of my pet hates surfaced again today, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel that, is this tippy tapping back forth and sideways in our own half, with the ball invariably going back to Pickford when we were under no threat. I was looking forward so much to this game having had Monday's cancelled/postponed and what do we get a shit show!

Neither team deserved to win, really but, if any, WH were not as bad as we were.

There are many types of Oxo Cubes, but there has been a new one released today, most of which many are familiar. Red for making Beef Stock. Yellow for making Chicken Stock. Green for making Vegetable Stock, and the Everton Blue one for making a Laughing Stock!

Evertons play is like just missing your bus and waiting for the next one. There is no variation if the plan doesn't work. West Ham looked quicker, stronger in the tackle winning the majority f 50/50 balls. it is no use blaming the injured players missing as we have won the last few games without them. There is something wrong with Richarlison as his form has dropped drastically this season, I realize that he will not be dropped but if he continues to play this poorly there will be no alternative.

I still support Ancelotti but he has to except the blame for such an shameful performance from what is supposed to be highly paid professionals. He says he is happy with the team he has got, but he better realize the supporters are not happy with the display they get

All the Richarlson superstitions are now laid to rest, we can be equally crap, without him or with him.

We got a lucky 3 pts Vs Sheffield... we were crap and a draw was on.
We got unlucky Vs West Ham...we were crap and the draw was on.

Played 2 / Drew 2 (2pts.) Vs played 2 / Won 1& Lost 1(3 pts.)

So if you squint a bit, we're 1pt. to the good...dogshit poor to watch, but 1pt. to the good.

Another write off of a season at the end of which a large chunk of deadwood come out of contract.(only to perhaps find even more deadwood to take their places??)

Happy New Year.

Edit; Bob @ 236; I saw the result and watched the 20min Mini Match - and fast forwarded most of that.

Everton just didn't look interested, Richarlison was awful, Calvert-Lewin offered very little and while you could criticize the service he didn't do a lot to worry their defence.

The team as a whole needs to move the ball a lot quicker and overall pick up the pace and at times I think I'd prefer just lumping it into the penalty area than stuff around passing square and back among our own defenders. You could say that there were some positives to be taken from the game but given the few chances created it would be a pointless exercise.

This Everton team is incomplete. It starts its revamp less than 2 years and only went through one meaningful window. Like what I said before, Cheers when this Everton team won and embraces it when it lost.

To have doubt on manager is fine. One loss in last 6 league matches( 4W1D1L) and sitting at Europen places
Be realistic...Carlo said before the aim for this season is european places. Calling for his head is clueless assessment to me. COYB

Why oh why do we turn in performances like this?
That was gutless, heartless, useless and any other less you can lay your tongue on.

I get we have injuries but that should not stop the players trying FFS, at least fucking look like you want to win the game. DCL was the only one with any credibility IMO, the rest can fuck off and earn their money elsewhere.

Every fucking time over the past 3-5 years we have come up short when we could genuinely put a marker down, it was WHU FFS not Barcelona!

Credit for the most useless performance must go to Tom Davies who only just edged out Richarlason, the lad has no pace, no footballing brain and couldn't pass wind.

I fucking despair, I really do.

When we won 4 in a trot. we are still few players short to be complete to compete..

Now we lost 1, Carlo not the right person..get rid of him

Many of them just didn't or do not wabnt to realize this Everton team is still WIP. what, expect Carlos to build Rome in one day?? How many of the players signed by him? We are talking about human being...not gaming where you add stat then you won...fgs

Richarlison not at it at all. Davies looked just what he is, a squad player. Siggy wasnt too bad at first but just faded away

The players that are out are so badly missed. Allan and Digne in that team would have added so much

I have to agree that Coleman is utterly infuriating and his tendency to go back 30 yards seems embedded in his muscle memory.

I suppose in some respects the latter could qualify as that, but that would be clutching at a final straw. We weren't beaten by a better side, WHU were there for the taking although they defended resolutely, we never showed any will to draw them out or break them down. That is what hurts the most, these highly paid prima donnas not playing with any conviction whatsoever.

The referee although he has a poor reputation, was okay on the day and can't be faulted. I suppose Pickford almost escapes criticism because of the ping-pong nature of their goal, which they shouldn't have had the space to shoot in the first place. Godfrey and Doucoure at least tried, and DCL had no service whatsoever.

Slightly off topic too, but on another thread we were talking about exaggerated accents especially the Scouse Accent. Lo and Behold the BBC News announce this morning that John Bishop is the new Doctor Who! What? I don't watch the show but have seen the odd episode over the years, what a farce giving that tosser the role, I despair at times.

Some observations on the game.

1) Keane's ability to play long, diagonal balls would have allowed us to stretch West Ham. Mina and Holgate tried to bring the ball into midfield but were mainly forced to play a square pass when they got into the opponent's half.
2) Movement off the ball from midfielders and forwards was really poor. No-one was trying to create space to receive the ball or show for a pass.
3) One day on, I still don't understand the substitution of DCL for Tosun. Ancelotti should have switched to a front two if he wanted to add more threat upfront.
4) The interplay between the fullbacks and the wide forwards didn't work - Godfrey and Richarlison were not on the same wavelength, but Coleman and Bernard were not even in the same postal code half the time.
5) How many pies has James been eating over Xmas - he was blowing bubbles after 10 minutes on the pitch. He is seriously unfit.

PS, I notice certain people only EVER post when we lose. What is that all about?!

So after all that the conclusions I have come up with is that the defence shouldn't have been messed with. A solid functioning defence is a thing of beauty and is rare. Michael Keane has been central to our wins and good form , his name should be first on the sheet. They should have continued and be allowed to form even better understanding. Those in front of them can operate with more confidence and security as a consequence.

Then it's width, there were almost no crosses in to DCL from open play all night. Bernard is not a wide player and Richarlison isn't really. Both want to come inside, and there is just no space for them to be effective.

This means we are not playing to our strengths, ie getting any sort of cross in to Dominic. Any average cross in and Dom has been attacking and causing mayhem. The fact that we are not getting even average level crosses in is disappointing in the extreme.

On the left We missed Digne badly, he can do it. Nkounkou, a gifted left foot, would have at least offered some hope of getting some crosses in from the left and could have started instead of Bernard who was ineffective and nullified.

On the right we missed Iwobi, he's criticised more than most but he can get a cross in every now and again.

Richarlison has been half the player since the Thiago tackle in the derby. He needs to shake it off quick. He is not offering anything from wide positions and is not making inroad coming inside. Iwobi is looking more productive from the right lately.

We talk about getting another forward to supplement and compliment DCL, maybe Richarlison is that man, playing rough the middle in 442s, rotation, subs, injuries and to compete with DCL for that starting spot.

Possibly the no1 player we need after the essential Bruno Fernandes esque midfielder ( Buendia ?) is the wide forward with some electric pace. A young Mane type of player, (Diatta ? Ismail Sarr ? )

There's probably many other valid interpretations of why that performance was so stifled and worrying in its banality. Serious questions need to be asked and answers found if we are to make permanent inroads on the top 6. Failure to do so will see the sand slip through our fingers yet again.

A dour game of chess that had nil-nil all over it until the West Ham player ran on to a deflected shot. It more hit him than he hitting the ball, but credit to him for following in the shot and anticipating.

Not a lot to add and I think most are broadly in consensus. I watch and play(ed) football for 2 reasons. To win and / or to be entertained. Ideally both, but if I can't win, I at least want to be entertained. Last night we got neither.

It looked like we did try to change the tactics with the full backs playing higher, but against a very well organised West Ham, they ran into dead ends and were forced sideways and backwards.

Doucoure done well but was having to do too much on his own. I like Godfrey the more I watch him and can't wait to see him in his natural position.

DCL is not misfiring nor is he lacking spark. He is missing his supply chain in Digne and a fully fit James.

Onto Gomes, who as some have said, played well when he came on. The reason he was surprisingly able to add urgency (I know!) was because he was against a midfield not in the slightest bit interested in pressing. That said, there were times he almost seemed to be waiting for Digne to overlap, realise its not coming and he too was forced sideways and backwards.

For similar reasons, Tom looked good for 30 minutes but then descended back to silly fouls and losing possession. Mason Holgate had as poor a game as I've seen him had, in particular his distribution often went to a claret shirt. Sigurdsson reverted back to type.

Richarlison just didn't look right, as he hasn't for several games.

Frustration all around, no way to dress it up. Yes, West Ham were organised, but they hadn't planned on winning that. We failed to find away to unlock them tactically, which was compounded by too many poor individual performances.

This was a winnable game that was lost in the dressing room before the game and agin at halt-time. So frustrating for the fans!

Everton are a poor team who are happen to be in 4th place but anyone who thinks they will be anywhere near that spot at the end of the season is delusional. Ancellotti has to take some responsibility for the team's poor performances.

No thank you.
Your take on Sigurdssons performance last evening will suffice.

We have too many players who can have one good game in 4. Ask yourself this, which teams would have the likes of the three I've mentioned? None of the teams we aspire to be. That is our problem. I suspect Newcastle, Fulham, West Brom would welcome them but none of the so-called Big 6 and neither would Leicester, Wolves, Villa, Leeds.

Ross Barkley was heavily criticised on these pages, by me at times too but he was 5 times the player Davies or Sig are for us. We desperately need Allan back as he drives us forward, wins the ball back and is the nearest thing we have to a leader on the pitch. We need Digne delivering crosses and attacking or even Iwobi for that matter. More importantly, we need to offload the players who continually underperform and let us down. Davies is one of 5 or 6 in that category. Local lad. Good ambassador. Nowhere near good enough.

Regarding Tom Davies, he's put in good performances lately, but last night's wasn't one of them, but that's the case for the entire team display. It was simply one of those unfortunate games. No more, no less.

I thought Tom had a decent first half but faded badly.
He is a better player for being coached to take less touches when in possession. Mostly one and two touch football in the main from him in last couple of games.
I agree with you re the team performance.
Put it to bed and move forward.

The problem I have is after watching the following game last night UTD vs Villa, I've come to the conclusion we are miles behind in terms of fitness, speed of play, incisive first time passing, movement on and off the ball.

So are we in for a year or so of Keeping a clean sheet and relying on a break or a good set piece to nab a goal, because without major surgery I don't see the players in our squad who can effect quick counter attack play. Who's are Fernandez, our Grealish, our Firminio, our Maddison, our Saka etc etc. Rodriquez ? Not sure with his injury record.

We totally lack balance at the moment. With Digne playing, we sweep out passes to wide left, Richarlison has moved inside to support DCL and Digne supplies the ammunition. Godfrey can't play that role and it means Richarlison has to stay wide left and is completely frozen out of the game, and throws a tantrum. We've got to give Knounkou a game to explore whether the lad after 2-4 games can make it as our left outlet. Richarlison will improve moving more centrally, Rodriquez will have an outlet for his cross field passes and we'll maybe kick on again.

But in saying all of that I still think we need an attacking right full back, a real fast defensive playmaker, not a sideways Johnny, a midfielder who breaks ahead of the ball and finally another pacy, direct striker, who hopefully is a good 6ft er.

Stan. I know he plays for someone else but was comparing the two at similar stages in their Everton careers. I want Tom to succeed but I just don't see it, I'm afraid. Central midfielders are crucial in the modern game and they either need to shield the defence or win the ball and drive the team forward. Tom does neither. Same with Sig and Delph.

Richarlison was ineffective again. Bernard did very, very little. Sigurdsson was back to his inconsistent best. DCL had little service and struggled to find space. These were the four players tasked with creating chances and they failed to do that.

I don't think Davies will be in our strongest XI but he's a useful squad player who always gives his best and has not done much worse than his senior colleagues who are paid twice as much and should be leading the way.

I think we really missed Iwobi last night, he's no world beater but has been beating his men frequently of late and creating space for others. Need others who can do likewise when he is out and Richie is struggling.

I don't think it is a poor performance. It just exposed that our current players can only play well in defensive setup. (e.g. against a more attacking focus team which we can absorb their attack then counter.) When West Ham is playing the same kind of game, we do not have the quality to unlock their defense. Richy can if he's in form. But this match he keeps running into dead end and get crowded out.

It seems like teams already figure out how to take care of James. He's slow. He's being forced to get the ball too far away from goals to setup any assist. His set piece is still top quality. Need more runners around him to help him get more space in open play, Otherwise, I cannot see how much chances he can create.

And also, I think Davies game has improved. I know he's played a lot of PL games, but a lot of those during times with so many managerial changes. He's still only 22 and he can still improve.

If Siggy is getting a new contract that deserves its own thread.

To keep winning games and especially while not playing well, we need more quality its as simple as that.

We have a team of players almost full of deficiancies. Either too slow, poor passing, too weak and players who are still learning.

Lets be honest they have pulled their tripe out to scrape wins lately.

Our performances have been similar to West Hams last night and our defenders have stood out.

Quality is lacking for us and it starts to show when a lack of quality is tired or can't get going.

we haven't won a trophy for 26 years.
" yeh but the manager is on 220k wages"

look at where we were when he took over and look at our league position now
"yeh but it should be higher, the manager is on 220k wages"

Everton have only broke through the 60 point barrier 3 times in the last 10 years.
"yeh but the manager is on 220k wages"

And on and on and .

Pretty much every game this season has been like this!! The occasional 3-0 win would be nice!

Wolves is a big game to keep in touch but a pacy forward, attacking right back echo can also defend are surely the priorities for January window! Not easy or cheap.

How the fuck can anyone talk about TGT's tired tactics when we have been watching identical tactics since the day and hour he left ?

Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and now Ancelotti have combined to make us the most unpopular team in the land. Footy fans up and down the country make a dive for the remote when they see we are the live match. They know we will be fucking ugly and we never, ever, fail to live up to our rep.

Ancelotti is having do do it without world class players and he is being proper found out. Moyes isn't lucky against him. he is just better at cowardly stuff than him.

The likes of Mick Davies may be delighted with the "points improvement" on Silva (How low can you set the bar ?), but we will not be successful playing like this. We are still the premier leagues ugly sister.
The performance at Tottenham was not the rule. It was the exception. 95% of the performances under Carlo have been painful to watch. You will only get away with that if you keep winning.

The most difficult thing about last night was seeing the smug grin on Moyes's face. He might have been a dour miserable fucker, but he knows just as every honest Evertonian knows. We have actually regressed since he went... 500 million quid to look even uglier.

People making excruciating excuses for shite like we witnessed last night simply make themselves part of the problem. It was bad enough when people appologised for the cowardly football played under Allardyce, Koeman and Silva..Now we have people who are actually grateful for it.

It's been a good season so far and while we don't possess the talent to dominate against the likes of West Ham we have accumulated 29 points. We are a work in progress and the 3 players acquired during the summer have improved us. If offered a 58 point tally at the end of 32 games I would be more than happy.

A week off is no bad thing at this point in time and if we can acquire a back up striker, perhaps King who has been linked to West Ham, I am confident that we will finish in the top 7 at the end of the season.

Ancelotti has shown two very different styles, both effective despite some crap performances. This adaptation is a world away from Koeman, Silva and especially Allardyce. Try to put Ancelotti's prior reputation, and his current salary, to one side, and see where we are at the moment: In a position we didn't really expect before this season started.

The above is not any acceptance of bad performances or mistakes in management, but a recognition of reality.

So any chance of finishing in the top 4 will soon evaporate without more attacking options - Tosun is not an attacking option - he will be at Goodison until his contract runs out doing little in the way of playing.

(Which will be celebrated as success - no wonder Moyes smiled !)

It's a long season, and we're I believe 15 points better off than at this stage last year so we DO have reasons to be cheerful.

Everyone is pissed off right now, I should know, stuck at home alone for 10 months is no fun, but Everton are moving in the right direction, despite yesterdays horror show.

Another player I recommended very highly and we should have bust a gut for in the summer was Reece James. That opportunity is now gone but I believe his transfer would've been achievable, certainly for the money we paid for Gbamin. James will eventually be a central midfield player, and an extremely good one.

Must be an upcoming manager in the lower leagues who is playing Brazil-style football that will win us a trophy next year!!

Answers on a postcard to L4.

Every player (apart from maybe Gomes) was content to play the safe pass time and time again, not a single player was brave enough to try and change the momentum of the game by making a run to try and get West Ham to lose shape. It must have been one of the most comfortable games for the Hammers defence in many a long while.

Two shots on goal and, apart from corners and free-kicks, just one ball played into the six-yard area during the whole game from Everton; that's a failure by any stretch of the imagination.

We are currently 4th, but, where we sit after this weekend's fixtures have been completed is likely to be a couple of places lower than that. Of course, the points tally is a vast improvement on last season, as we've managed to win quite a lot of these tight games. Let's not forget, even when the team was scoring freely, the matches themselves could just as easily have gone either way.

The Premier League table is so congested that a couple of results can alter the standings radically and, until all the teams have played the same number of matches, it's a bit of a falsehood to say, "Oh well, we're 4th" ... blah blah; it may be factually true at this juncture but, hand on heart, do we look like a top-four side, right now?

There have been times and games where we've looked like the real deal but mostly the good football has been sporadic and sometimes downright horrible to watch.

It is a work in progress, and it will take time, but I'd like to see what Ancelotti's real Everton looks like because, on occasions like last night, it looks suspiciously like a re-hash of the Koeman, Silva school of thinking.

On the Live Forum last night, I asked "What are we frightened of?" We played (and I use the word loosely) as though we were shit scared of making a mistake, played without any sense of desire or courage.

The first half was about the worst half of football of any game I've watched. The only thing I can remember enjoying was around the 10-minute mark when we were playing it out of our box and Tom Davies received the ball not far outside the box and he did something so simple but so unusual for us. He stopped, he literally just stopped with the ball at his feet for a few seconds. Totally relaxed, he stopped, looked all around him before making the right pass.

I applauded him; luckily I was alone in the lounge so nobody to see me looking mad.

That was the only thing I remember enjoying in the 75 minutes I watched (more of that in a minute).

West Ham Utd were as bad as us, shit scared of fucking up, until they realised "Hey these are more worried than us, we could do this."

I stopped watching at 75 minutes because I find not actually watching us lose live is slightly less painful than seeing it as it happens, and I was 100% sure that we'd succumb to a late goal and lose.

Now I'm not normally a negative poster overall but I really was sure, going on the 75 minutes I'd watched, that we'd lose to a late goal. I'm so, so glad I didn't, in the end, have to stand in the rain for three or four hours on New Year's Eve to get tested and then travel to Goodison to watch that!

I know we're 4th so I should be relatively happy? But there really is no excuse for a performance like last night. We bottled our chance to go 2nd against a journeyman team who really did get a late Christmas present.
Still seething and thoroughly pissed-off!!

The League is very compact and we are only two defeats from mid-table. Recent wins have been lucky and ugly with us desperately hanging on for the final whistle against Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, and Sheffield Utd.

Defeats have been really poor: Leeds Utd, West Ham Utd and Man Utd in the Cup.

Ancelotti's tactics are to try to nick a goal and then defend. How many times have we seen, with 20 mins to go, offensive players taken off and holding midfielders or defenders brought on?

The team selections are negative. Always two crab holding midfielders and one forward. Last night, we were drawing nil-nil and, with 10 minutes to go, on comes Tosun and off goes Calvert-Lewin. Instead of taking off a holding midfielder and playing two up top, Ancelotti was more concerned about protecting a home draw.

His post-match comments were that we can only play counter-attack and it was only one lost point. Not good enough for Everton Football Club.

Who can forget a few weeks ago the dreadful team selection of Iwobi at left-wingback and Davies at right-wingback? I can't ever recall a worse team selection at the club.

I go back to 1977 and the football being played now is on a par with the worst of Walter Smith and David "knife to a gunfight (away games)" Moyes.

When we played Man Utd at home for a place in the Carabao Cup Semi-final we were higher in the league than Man Utd and they made at least 7 changes. Man Utd were there for the taking and Ancelotti's park-the-bus tactics were cowardly and shameful.

I worry about Rotherham. Ancelotti has lost dismally in the League Cup to Man Utd and embarrassingly to Liverpool's Youth team in the FA Cup. I've no doubt that a weakened rotated team with Ancelotti's Jurassic tactics will lose.

This Manager has been sacked from his last 3 jobs. He's a dinosaur and yes, he has been found out. Let's cut our losses and scout a progressive Coach who will play attractive and winning football rather than the Stone Age football Ancelotti serves up.

Let us enjoy 4th place while it lasts... because it won't.

In my 58 years on this earth, I reckon I know what that means in our case. Carlo has forgotten more than I will ever know about football but an example of mentality (or bravery) is wasting a place on the bench week after week with Tosun when Simms is waiting for his chance and could save us millions.

We hear he's not ready, whatever that actually means. Maybe he can't finish or win a header or hold up play. Tosun doesn't come close to ticking any of these boxes.

I despise or hate Everton more than I love them most of the time. 'Hate' is a strong word, I know, and getting back to 'Mentality', we all know that, if a mid-30s full-back didn't decide to retire, we would've snapped his hand off, so Brands wouldn't've had to make the effort to find his replacement.

I hope to god we are not thinking the same about Sigurdsson. Not one club in the top four would even entertain that idea. All we want is Everton to at least act like a big club. Poor results, I can handle... I'm used to it. But please show some vision and have a belief and better Mentality. Most of this is not Carlo's fault (except for the bench fiascos).

The only way Moshiri would get rid of any manager would be if our Premier League status was threatened, so it ain't happening any time soon. It took him an age to get rid of the last 3 managers when we all knew they where busted flushes.

So I suggest you stop with the same unrealistic posts and maybe start trying to find bits of positivity and indeed hope in the current regime, as you're stuck with it for at least another 12 months!

They were robbed last night by Man Utd but both of those teams have a grit that we lack. The fact that all of our players went for the safe pass says it all. The instructions were to keep it tight and not get caught on the break.

This is down to the coach. The Italian must have run his eye over his squad and he has decided that 4th is the best we can do. Here was a chance with Coleman reinstated and Richarlison duly rested and James on the bench, for the team to grab second place.

We needed to beat a side that we had already seen off earlier in the season. We played for a draw. A strange attitude and it came from the manager, and every player on our team played within himself.

Incidentally, if Tom Davies was Brazillian, his holding midfield performance would have been described as commanding. There was little movement ahead of him and, without Keane, a lack of leadership in the defence.

I never thought I'd miss Iwobi but, for all of his lack of steel and poor final ball, at least he runs full pelt with the ball at his feet.
Oh, and to put it into perspective, if we were picking eleven from our team and Aston Villa's, the only Everton player to get near a place would be Calvert-Lewin. I wonder how much their team cost compared to ours?

So what does that tell us? Get Guardiola in when he leaves Man City? Get Eddie Howe in and be expansive with neat touches from average players that set you up to lose 1 in every 2 games?

I am prepared to watch solid styles and hard work because, unless the 11 is at full strength, we don't have much else.

Silva's first season ended great and he lost Gueye and Zouma. Mina who barely started and Gbamin replaced them.

We didn't get Zaha and Iwobi came and, let's be honest, he's been a grim signing until recently where his level has raised a bit.

Rebuild, rebuild. Now we have a manager working with not just an injury list but 5 of his top 8 performers out in the busiest part of the season.

2 of them are from his 3 new signings. To expect some sort of entertaining football with less quality is quite odd.

Also, with at least three vital players missing and so many fixtures in a short period of time, erratic performances are inevitable.

Just about every team are having the same problems.

Also, I can't see how some think Davies had a decent game! He has no pace, no vision, no passing ability, no nothing. He is one of the many we should get rid ASAP now that we are stuck with Ancelotti.

In your opinion, who is the answer?

We scored none.

Our fans are happy to say we are 4th but get angry when anyone says we should play like a team that's 4th. I call it hypocrisy.

Howe's finishing positions for Bournemouth:

16th
9th
12th
14th
18th (relegated)

This in addition to Bernard, Tosun, Kenny etc who shouldn't be near the match team squad. 6th 7th or 8th with this present squad would – I'm sure in Ancelotti's mind – be work well done. Change takes time...

"Oh and to put it into perspective, If we were picking eleven from our team and Aston Villa's, the only Everton player to get near a place would be Calvert-Lewin. I wonder how much their team cost compared to ours?"

Eddie, Aston Villa have spent like drunken sailor's since their return to the Premier League... well over the £200 million mark.

You only think Calvert-Lewin (out of all our players) would be good enough to get in the Villa side? Really?!?! I have to strongly disagree there. I think Richarlison, Digne, Keane, Allan and James would comfortably walk into their best eleven. You could make a strong case for Doucouré and Holgate too.

I think we've already seen, from the opening Premier League games of this season, that we are capable of playing good attacking football that produces lots of goals. We were top of the Premier League playing that way.

Unfortunately, if any of our best eleven players are injured, suspended, or out of form, the team really suffers as we don't have any depth in quality. We ended up with injuries and suspensions after the Merseyside derby and Carlo has had to find another formula to win games which he's succeeded in mostly against some of the leagues best teams.

Last night was piss-poor... but it doesn't totally undo the good work that's been done this season.

I can't wait for the end of this season when we finish in our highest position for years, and you're posting about our great future etc... blah blah fucking blah. How fickle can you get when you're praising a dope who played 'Kung Fu' Hibbert in a cup final; went into every game bemoaning the lack of resources when he had 11 years to sort it out; picked Steve Round as his assistant; sneaked off to Old Trafford behind our backs etc?

Ancelloti has been saddled with the worst squad I've ever seen at Goodison Park – a bunch of useless mercenaries who were brought in by the worst managers in our history. He has added quality and steel in Allan, Doucouré and Godfrey and guile in James, while acquiring a future gem in Nkounkou.

It's not his fault we've amassed an acute injury crisis, and it's no surprise it's our best players, as they are having to work twice as hard to cover the useless shite they call teammates. A manager needs at least 3 years to stamp his name on a team, and considering where we are in the league, I'd say he's making the best of a bad hand.

Yes, the performances lately have been abysmal, but wasn't the 5-0 home defeat to our neighbours any better? Did we not go on to be the 'best team in Europe' under the same manager? Get a grip, and just be grateful we have a successful manager, a true blue as his assistant, a wealthy owner and a new ground on the horizon...

May have got it wrong suggesting only Calvert-Lewin would walk into the Aston Villa team, but he has made a good point in comparing our lack of passing skills, pace and tenacity to Villa's. We seem to have a real problem stringing 3 passes together in a lot of games, which is a bit bewildering because passing is one of the most basic football skills, even at schoolboy level.

You can tell after 10 minutes of watching the Blues how they are going to perform over 90 minutes in most games. The warning signs of sloppy passing and lack of effort jump out of the TV screen at you and, once the rot sets in, it rarely changes. It must give Ancellotti sleepless nights, because these are the basics you expect from professional players but are so often missing in Everton's play.

I was talking about the eleven we had on the pitch last night and I stand by my viewpoint. I have watched most of Villa's games this season and they play with verve, passion and pace. They have Grealish – the most exciting player in the country – but also have men who are technically gifted as well as hard-working and are not playing in fear.

Wait till we play them in a few weeks time and mention the comparison again.

I got it wrong on Davies, did I? The holding midfielder is the only one of the midfield who can be excused for not passing forwards (if there is no movement or people are not open). He was the "holding" midfielder.

I posted last night he had a decent first half but faded.

But come on mate, he played like a Brazilian?

Thomas, come on, if Allan had played the same role most people would have been saying he is the best thing since Corned Beef.

We had the guile of an in-form James, the tireless hard work and dribbling of Richarlison. The prolific goal-scoring of Calvert-Lewin. Allan dominating midfield and Digne and Coleman bombing down the flanks and in good form. It was quite a joy to watch... but unfortunately short-lived.

Do you consider Tom to be as good a player as Allan?

We should have appointed Chris Wilder when we had the chance.

When Allan is back fit, Tom is out of the starting eleven.

Would just like to say.

Being supportive of the manager does not mean you are looking to be a better Blue. It just means what it says on the tin. You are backing the manager.

Equally, being critical of the manager does not make you any less of a blue.

Ian Edwards, I have to raise this again: your sweeping statements on Man Utd fielding 7 changes against us in the Carabao Cup, as I pointed out on the match Live Forum, it was 9 changes, everyone was a current international for their country, which gave them 11 full internationals on the pitch at the start – 9 of them had at least a 7-day break before that game.

We get it you and Darren Hind aren't lovers of Carlo Ancelotti!!! Ian, you are in danger of sounding like Trump: no context of true facts to your post. You have been asked multiple times who else would you have as a manager? The art of debate is based on opinion, granted; however, debate is only productive when it's fact-based; also when questions are asked, they are answered.

The West Ham Utd game was shite, both teams too frightened to have a go. I am as disappointed as anyone over the performance and result; however, we need to be honest and say we just aren't good enough at the moment – we've been getting results due to Ancelotti's organisation.

When your most creative players are missing, what do you expect? Last night was Richarlison's worst game in our shirt, I am sure Ancelotti didn't say "Go out and play shite" to him...

Happy New Year, one and all – including those that have a difference of opinion to myself.

Teams like Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are not the forces they were and so Spurs, Man Utd and Everton are decently placed.

Things can change so quickly with injuries etc. and I am not so sure that Everton, even with a full complement, can stay up in the top four. The inconsistency is alarming and needs some urgent attention by Carlo.

He needs to ferret out the complacent players and those who are just not worth their salt.

Another mid-table finish is just not acceptable !!

Right now, Tom is good squad cover. I hoped he could do well last night against a team that wouldn't press and therefore give him the space he needs (he struggles against teams that press). As I said on my earlier post, he looked okay for 30 minutes but then was poor.

He wasn't the only culprit last night and certainly wasn't to blame. I see posters trying to claim that people are blaming him but I haven't seen much of that on here as it was a collectively poor performance. Only Doucouré and Godfrey came out with any credit in my opinion.

I also don't see many making excuses for the manager on this thread for last night.

I said we got it wrong tactically last night (the manager), which was compounded by too many poor individual performances.

I was agreeing with you.

This is not an Ancelotti thing and to focus on him is a mistake. We have played in this fashion for long passages of most seasons. What is the underlying cause? Baffling, as I say, but these are the hallmarks of a side deeply affected by fear. Martinez was right about that. Where on earth does it come from?

I think it's grown over years to be part of us, I think institutions can develop a sort of "muscle memory", good or bad, and successive employees lock in to step. Until we attack it, other discussions will not really matter. There will be the same spasms of success, followed by disappointment.

Managers, players, coaches all come here and seem to be infected, sooner or later. We need proper therapy.

I agree with you too!!

I've read enough of your posts to know better. 👍

It is something that neither you, nor anyone else can know.

I might say "With the same team and resources as Howe had, Ancelotti would have won the Premier League and the Champions League."

As a statement, it is just as valid as yours.

I say that not to enter into any debate about Allardyce; that's long since dead and buried and I wholly accept that my view about him was in a tiny minority. But we really do need someone who will not absorb the Everton script, indeed we need someone who will rip it up. Will that be Carlo?

It's just my opinion, but he played above average in a couple of games this season, apart from that he's been a passenger this season and last season. He's on £100k+ per week; unless his new terms are £10k per week, Carlo and Brands need to go to SpecSavers.

I will be frustrated if Sigurdsson gets a new deal. So often we've seen players do nothing until their contract is nearly up then they raise their game. Nick Barmby for example, Mirallas etc.

Sigurdsson is old, expensive and has been an infrequent performer for 4 years. His few important goals this season should earn him no more than a golden goose egg in Qatar or Miami.

A lot of people have blamed the fear on the hostile home crowd. But presently there aren't any fans in there to wave white hankerchiefs at Gomes or berate anxious folks like Keane. So obviously, that is a load of nonsense.

It's not like Chelsea and Villa don't have expectant fans yelling at Ross Barkley for example but nobody seems to trot out that excuse for his ups and downs elsewhere. But when he was here playing poorly, many blamed the fans.

I think he would have got the defence sorted eventually, we'd have saved about £50 million on manager payoffs and with a DoF who could actually recruit, I don't think we'd be playing that sickening style that we endured last night.

I am polar opposite with on you Allardyce and hate the fact he is associated with the history of our club. But like you say that ship has sailed.

I agree, we need someone who is detached from the club and who come in without the emotion. It's good they respect the traditions and the history, but you only have history to look back on if you make it. If that makes sense.

Despite history, to date, showing that only former Evertonians have won trophies with Everton, the game has changed. Liverpool figured that out years ago. It's why I was vigorously against appointing Duncan and even Arteta.

First, the RS who (though I hate to say it) are probably the best team in the country (certainly if you admit that they usually have 12 players on the pitch), were recently humbled by Fulham, West Brom, Newcastle and Brighton, all definitely bottom of the pack teams with not a decent player amongst them. A team with their squad ought to have walked away with 12 points, not 4.

We seem to be in a situation where both we and the RS have no idea how to play when the other team does not try to win the game but is happy to KITAP1. There seems to be a highly successful formula which smothers teams which rely on good centre forward play and fast attacks.

I'm sure Carlo, an a manager experienced in Italian football, knows how this problem can be solved, and I suspect the next round of recruits will reflect this.

Until Ancelotti became manager, we specialised in signing players with little or no pace (Richarlison excepted) but then we see them become increasingly unable to do what should be second-nature to a top-notch pro footballer, namely pass the ball reliably most of the time.

Why are we so inept at this? Why do we hardly ever see an accurate, hard shot from +20 yards?

Davide Ancelotti has, we're told, this season had to individually advise first team players on "body position". Jeez!

What on earth has been going on at Finch Farm these past two decades?

He was bloody terrible. Once he lost the Moyes defence, it was all down hill. We'd be in League 2 with that clown.

There's a group of you, me, Darren and one or two others that have posted such exasperation in the past. It's a valid point, and it generally transgresses the players and coaching staff across many years. God alone knows what it is, but it's deep in the fabric.

Yes, we're a functioning football club, and things are not as bad as some make out right now. It's the feeling that things could be better at any one point in time without the hoodoo.

A hard thing to define but one manifestation is that we always, but always seem to time the appearance of it when it most matters - like when faced with a golden opportunity to go second. Very frustrating.

Do you really believe ALL the people who think Tom is not a good player are inventing criticism to prove a point?

Totally agree.

If Martinez had been given the money his successors had we would have had an exciting, challenging team by now, imo.

We are in a much better place than we were 12 months ago, so that represents progression.

If I look at the league table tonight, depending on how these next 2 games this evening go, we are starting to consolidate in the top 10. Possibly top 8.

I've said countless times, I didn't get carried away with being top earlier in the season on 2nd last week. The important thing is to stay in touch with our target, which realistically was / is Europa. We are still very much on target and still very much in touch.

Due to the unique circumstances of this season, 4th is an outside chance, but we are staying in touch of our realistic target.

On the fear thing, the worst example to me was the FA Cup semi-final v Man Utd in, what was it, 2007? I honestly felt as though Fergie threw that game to give Moyes a bone.

The "star" of their lineup was Darron Gibson who was amongst a lot of no-name kids who never made the grade. We had a very good side but we pottered about nervously for 120 minutes before scraping by on penalties. That should have been an easy landmark 2-0 or 3-0 win.

Then again, as far as "worse" goes, I guess we had last year's cup game against the Liverpool Under-18s.

No idea where the fear comes from. But I sense it comes from the top with Bill Kenwright always portraying us as plucky underdogs as if we're Wimbledon of the 90s. It's fairly pathetic really, knife to a gunfight mentality when we actually have and have had guns, we just choose not to draw them.

That kid up top, Watkins is going to be phenomenal.

The thing is, whenever I watch them I think that it would be worth the effort to go to Goodison to see 11 guys busting a gut and giving it a real go, playing some great football and Grealish is the best English midfielder I have seen since Gazzer. Only he is smarter and works harder.

I have not answered the question as to who should be Manager because it is irrelevant. I have no say in the appointment. I can only comment on the man in possession and he has been sacked from his last three jobs and his style of football is absolutely rotten.

On a separate note and from reading the posts above it seems a number of people support Ancelotti first and Everton second.

When we win he is lauded. When we lose it's the fault of individual players. It is never his team selection, his tactics or his substitutions.

He only came to midtable Everton for the money because no one else wanted him. United gave him a wide berth as did Arsenal.

All the best mate

There's a lot of bias, patronizing and just plain bullshit in football and its media, but I sadly believe we have gone some to way to inviting it with a long-standing niceness and almost knowing our place below certain other teams.

Quite a lot of fans of "Big" teams have said in the past they "like" Everton... which doesn't need explanation. The outcry after the recent derby? Give me some of that again, please. The VVD thing (and Richarlison) gave licence to the diatribe, but the fact we competed and didn't dutifully roll over was a big driver.

Martinez was a disaster. He took over a hard working, well drilled team and added some quality signings to it, with Barry, Lukaku, McCarthy etc. It was initially successful but once he'd fully infected our club with his fucked up philosophy of football, we were subjected to some of the worst football I've ever seen.

Slow, ponderous football... Constantly passing the ball sideways and backwards. Possession without any purpose. No pressing the opposition on the ball. Our once strong defence under Moyes crumbled under Martinez and started leaking goals for fun.

I never really rated Koeman or Silva as our managers... but I thought they both suffered mostly due to bad player recruitment. Martinez failed due to damn right incompetence. He's the worst manager we've ever had along with Mike Walker.

Anyway, we can only keep going; we have to support the fuckers. As if any of us on here are ever really going to give up on them, despite all the blether from people like me.

Dont watch it?

Just a suggestion

A few days ago we could have gone 2nd but stayed 4th... Carlo informed us we were on target. This season it looks like the scrap for the top 6 will be a lottery.

Ancelotti has scraped some good wins from shit games but he has also presided over strange selections, mystifying positional picks and mind-boggling subs. Last night he took off our best striker just as he put on a provider!

He brought back Coleman and actually made the defence less stable. This is all after a good rest, but the team looked like they had all been eating Geese all week.

Criticism must also be levelled at the manager for his part in the loaning of Mr Sulcky chops and Theo King of the Scummers. Walcott could certainly have done a better job than Iwobi or Bernard and young Sulky Gob might have given us a better option than Tosun.

Why didn't Carlo think, "Hey, I know, let's put Tosun up top to help Dominic"?

Those points are gone and might be the difference between 8th and 5th. That's why he deserves the brickbats as well as the plaudits.

As said above, yesterday dire. Season so far (United cup game excepted) not so dire. A concerning issue though. Hope it proves just a step on the road and not a precedent.

No offence intended

It is not, if the Everton fan is traumatised on a regular basis by what he is watching.

Though I stopped going the game during the Allardyce era.

Did Man United have a better 11 than our strongest 11 on the day?

Even with us at full strength they do, so whether they are above us or below us, the odds of a win are in their favour with a great run of form and a stronger side.

I wish we done something different because Hindsight is telling me to but reality tells me more.

If you think this side can keep going toe to toe with the best you are in for some miserable days and I wouldn't wish that on you.

Have a think who the top sides might take from our best 11 to start every game for them and that about sums it up.

We are up there through grit and collective effort and last night was a collective poor display that lost too a gritty opponent.

Agents tricks mate.
He wont be getting a new contract

When we're allowed back you should go the game mate.

International football is completely different to club football - and it helps when you have a golden generation of players at your disposal as Martinez has.

Martinez also failed where Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce succeeded: he failed to keep Wigan in the premier League. And Wigan teams were notorious for leaking goals. The alarm bells were ringing loud and clear but Kenwright chose to ignore them.

Somebody setting the bar on what would constitute success. I don't think we have a chance of getting to seventy points, but I hope you are right, if only because you have dared stick your neck out.

Progress would be 5th or 6th and qualifying from Europe in the context of where we were last season.

Success takes time. Progress is, well, progressive over time to achieve success.

At least Martinez had ambition and tried winning trophies. The current fella put a team out to get to penalties the other week at home, in the biggest game of the season so far. But then again, maybe he's got to know the players by now and I am being too critical of him..

Just checked.
Last time we achieved 70 points, before Martinez, was 1987.
I still think Ancelotti can achieve the 70 points.

It all depends what the champions finish on doesn't it?

That won't be near the 90 plus its been for the last few years.

If we were to finish on 55 but the champions on 70, some could call that an achievement for finishing closer to the champions than before.

On the other hand you could say we have both got worse but we would still be closing the gap.

I'd have thought it'd be judged on how close to the top we are. We could get still get up to 60 points but I think over 70 is almost impossible now.

That's judging by the way results have gone so far.

See where you are coming from there.
Everton have only broke the 70 point barrier once in 34 years so history is obvious.
Aim for the moon, hit the stars though mate.
We have a bit of luck with injuries and play with a near full squad to pick from we have a chance.
Any bad injury run of our top players, similar to the one we have now, will put paid to 70 points

Well, as it stands, we are ahead of all of those in the league. 3 ahead of Villa, although they have a game in hand. 3 ahead of Southampton having played the same. We have a game in hand on West Ham (3 points ahead), Leeds (6 points ahead) and Wolves (7 points ahead).

There is a long way to go, but to my age old tradition (well in my 49 years anyway), start to take notice of the table after Christmas. It is starting to take shape and to repeat myself, we are consolidating in the top 10, if not the top 8 and very much staying in touch with our target of Europa qualification.

Not success, but definitely progress despite the disappointment of last nights dreadful performance.

Hold your nerve, we may well progress this season.

It's an ambition we should aim for but a tough ask. RS projected finishing total at present rate is 78 points.

If we can come in top 6/7 to get European football then we have improved on the previous few years and set a decent foundation to hopefully recruit well this summer and keep improving. Obviously the longer term goals are grander but this seems to be Ancelloti's stated aim this season and it's a fair one to my eyes.

I'm made up we've gone pragmatic, but Coleman never got going yesterday, possibly because of Richarlison, Bernard never got going probably because he needs an overlapping fullback to play with, and it was clear Sigurdson was on his knees after ten minutes.

We obviously need a few more players with real attacking instincts, and until we get them, being pragmatic has got to be our rule number one imo.

If that means the man who has managed some of the best players in the world, is prepared to become a dinosaur, in some peoples eyes (EVERTON FC = WON ZILCH IN 25 FUCKING YEARS) then I'm definitely prepared to give this manager some time.

That said, the team that was put out should have had enough about it to see off a West Ham side at home, who were marginally less uninspiring!

That said, me being an expert, I mentioned that 4-4-2 would be preferable before the game, unlocking West Ham's deep lying defence. I did notice Coleman and Godfrey's overlaps being completely wasted yesterday.

Ancelotti does not get a free ride, but all said and done, depleted squad, lots of games, 4 points off top. The top team - the unmentionables - being lauded as very very strong by many, including a lot of Evertonians.

What really annoyed me was not just the result, but both Mina's and Richarlison's massively embarrassing histrionics, and Gomes smiling, fist bumping, swapping shirts after a 1-0 defeat at home, a win that could have propelled us to 1 point off top. Infuriated me that! Would they have done that with fans in the stadium? Hhhmmm!

I am still optimistic, that team had 2 Ancelotti signings in the starting line-up, and we know where the other 9 players have gotten us in recent times!

It has been a weird season, let's see where we are when we get players back, and another run of games and see where that takes us.

Besides I have been inside a packed Goodison many a time and seen Everton spanked, many - many times particularly in the Moyes glory years.

So the point about runners off the ball is very valid.

This manager, this latest throw of the dice needs 2 windows. I've said before, I'll be interested in the Everton team that lines up at the start of next season. If we make the improvements we made in this one x 2, we could be a very different prospect and with more depth, along with more deadwood gone.

Our next 3 games take us to half a season. To get half of 70 points we need 2 wins from the 3.

Again not impossible but our opponents will certainly fancy their chances too and Villa could be flying high with a win over us.

With games in hand that'd make them more favourites for the top 4 than us. Shocking turnaround we are seeing at Villa but they have looked great fair play.

Leicester is the 3rd of a tough 3 games. These 3 fixtures could make our season look very bright again or close rivals climb over us.

Fingers crossed.

Martin 409. Fully agree on Bernard. Playing a man his size and lack of strength, shoulder to shoulder on the wings seems insane.

Face to face from central positions i could see him moving past players a bit easier.

I know there are fans on this forum that watch these players. I would pick a team of:

Olsen (I'm just gone on Pickford)
Kenny
Keane
Godfrey
Digne
Gordon
Allan
Doucouré
Richarlison
Simms
Calvert-Lewin

Keep saying, I'm liking Godfrey more and more each time I watch him and really want to see him in his natural position.

Kenny I'm afraid doesn't look a long term option for us having watched him both for Everton and Schalke. Short term, keep in the squad like Davies. And if we ever play 3 at the back, he can do a job at wing back and has experience playing there. Just in a 3-5-2, not a 3-4-3.

Onyango is 17 years old

Homes looks the better list. In theory more opportunity for points; away schedule will be difficult if we're not on very good form. I'd be stunned if we did two points per game. 76 pts? Doubt it.

Watch the second goal in the Derby again. James slips in the overlapping Digne who puts a peach of a cross in for DCL to smash home Duncan style.

Last night Gomes was almost waiting for Digne to overlap at one point but it wasn't there.

I also think the much maligned Iwobi makes a difference as recently he's been playing well and being a pest to the opposition. As I've said previous, half the time we don't know what is going to happen when he has the ball, so if he can create that confusion within the opposition then that's a good thing!

We still have to see what Gbamin can add and once we have the natural full backs fit, we get to see Godfrey in his natural position.

There's a few things Ian and that's before we bring in additional players in the next 2 windows.

According to Carlo DCL was also carrying an injury.

Form and phases. A season lasts from August to May.

Peaks and troughs etc.

Which comes back to not having sufficient backup or support. That is definitely a criticism of the management team.

I know there are some that didn't want Carlo, are suspicious of his intent or motive and see him as a busted flush.

I personally don't but I will judge on performance over a reasonable period of time. Right now we are 5th so doing better than when he took over. Not everything has been great but we are progressing. That doesn't mean I won't criticise and a failure to have sufficient backup in the forward department is a short term one.

I supported Moyes for about half of his tenure understanding he was doing what needed to be done. I turned when he failed to have any ambition when he had achieved Phase 1. I was appalled when we appointed Martinez but was gladly eating humble pie after that first season only to see my fears come home to roost. I got blinded by my memories of Koeman the player rather than Koeman the manager so got burnt on that one. Why we ever appointed Silva is beyond me. I never called for Howard Kendall to be sacked (but admittedly I was young and naive - my father did and he watched him as a player).

My point is that I support Everton, not the manager. Whoever is the manager, they get my support until I think it's going wrong. This isn't going wrong, we are generally making positive steps forward.

Don't get me wrong, he's never a world beater but he fits a certain system and that is probably 4-4-2.

Play that system and you probably get more out of him and see a more effective player than we have.

But lets be honest, he joins the list of players that I have no personal gripe against but are not the level where we want Everton to be.

But play 2 up top in the modern game and you generally get overrun in midfield so the 2 up top don't get service,

The one system that would support that would be 3-5-2, but my word you have to have exactly the right blend of players to make that one work. Otherwise you get massively exposed on the flanks when defending. It can be very effective but you have to have the right wing backs and a proper holding midfielder; enforcer type.

They want to put up snap shots like
"We're top now".. " We're 2nd now".. "We're fourth now"...but now when other teams games in hand are played and our true position becomes a little clearer, its "lets wait until the end of the season"

Its a ridiculous notion. What on earth would football fans talk about if they had to wait until May to talk about the style of play from November To January ?

And how come its ok to say we will get 70 points in January, but its not ok to talk about the desperately poor football we are being served up here and now. - Not a dig Stan. It doesnt matter whether you are right or wrong, at least you have enough conviction to support your argument without throwing in a fist full of caveats - I like that

The self proclaimed positives - Great to support awfulness and excuse cowardly tactics against inferior opposition...But very negative to condemn it and call for better.

I wonder which one benefits the club most ?

Rightly criticise just as we would praise but put it in the context of the course of a season right?

We have improved. We are still not where we want to be, but are in a better place than this time last year.

We had lots of people taking great delight when Arteta was struggling. They ridiculed others who they claimed wanted him as our manager (not that I saw anyone advocating him).

"Dodged a bullet," they said.

Those people who spitefully hammered an ex-player will become increasingly nervous as the younger manager (who has already won two trophies) continues to eat into what was at the time a fifteen point gap between us and them.

Martin Keown said of Arsenal:
"Now, with the kids coming in, there is a real core that they can look to the future with," he told BT Sport. "I like the way they have reacted. There has been a lot of character and a lot of passion. The youngsters are leading the way for Arsenal."

We won't know until the end of the season which side will finish the highest in the division or travel furthest in the cups, however, what my experience tells me is that the fewer chances you create the less likely you are to win matches.

It always seems that Everton when scoring regularly concede too easily and when they sort out the defence they don't create - it's not a new phenomenon to Evertonians but it seems no manager in recent years has been able to solve that particular quandary.

I'm not as good a prophet as you Darren.

Clearly some want Ancelotti to fail. I personally just want the Everton manager to succeed whoever that is even if I agree with who the manager should be or not.

Arteta may prove to be a good Arsenal manager or he may not. But right now I don't give two fucks because he's Arsenal's manager, not Everton's.

Darren, I respect your view and often agree with you as much as I disagree with you, which is good for healthy debate.

I guess you just want Ancelotti to fail. Even if that means Everton failing.

Yes, feel sorry for any ex-Blue in that position. I think we missed the proverbial bullet.

Somebody on here suggest that he would be our next manager; the way he's going, he has a long long time to qualify for that job.

On the other side of the coin, we could've ended up with Arteta, who has taken Arsenal into a relegation battle.

My opinion is that if we hadn't got Carlo and had ended up with either Arteta or Moyes I think we would have an extremely unhappy fan base currently!

There have been numerous attacks on Arteta on these pages. I don't know why. I don't remember him being put up as a candidate (Although I accept there may have been 1-2 mention his name)

Check out a current article on the front page of TW, called 52 weeks.

I don't call them attacks. I call that an opinion or view point.

We have runs of playing poorly and not losing, we have runs of playing a little bit worse and not winning.

Darren @ 450; some days I have trouble waiting for the end of the Ads in a tv program. We, most of us, seem to live from 1 game to the next.

Sometimes the game is very poor to watch and its a good job there are no crowds...sometimes the crowd might have helped us.

A few weeks ago we were all playing for 2nd place. Our form and the form of others is a roller coaster. How long United, Spurs & Arsenal keep up the decent side of their form and where our form finally comes to rest...good or bad, will decide if we finish 3rd, 4th, 5th or 7th, 8th 9th.

So 6th or 10th it is then...maybe.

With out being too knee-jerk, apply the cushion test (ask your dad's those of a you of a younger disposition).

Would the W. Ham game have resulted in a sky full of cushions?
My answer is more than likely Yes, therefore the game and the team was shite...and, up to a point, the guy that selected that team.

And I call it as so...but only for the given value of that one game.

Hopefully it will be better next week...if not, I'll be frisbeeing my figurative cushion again.

While many of those who see themselves as "glass half full" talk with fear and trepidation of the opposition. I am on here every pre-match thread talking up our chances.

I don't give a flying fuck who are manager is. I want/need him to succeed and if he is playing cowardly football from behind the couch against inferior opposition. He is getting both barrels

We will be challenging for a European place. My money is on getting a Europa one.

That will disappoint some people who want us to fail but that's my punt.

Do I know that for definite? Of course not, but it's easier to predict failure and claim you knew better.

And agree on not giving a fuck who the manger is.

Although recently you do seem to.

You don't know other people on here so maybe don't call their view idiotic either??

They are just different hence the healthy debate this site encourages.

Ultimately we are all Evertonians.

Only recently..You REALLY do seem to.

I don't select the manager. If I did it, would not be the guy who has got the gig now. I don't hide my opinion. Never have.

But every manager is just the latest hired hand. If he does good he gets credit. If he shames the club. He should be shamed himself

I'm done here

I don't RECENTLY seem to do so. I've been positive about the Ancelotti appointment from the start.

Hopefully your prophecy will prove me and many others wrong and we can start again.

I'd rather he took us to a better place and progressed us.

I still don't get what your alternative was. Please tell.

I'll be totally fucking blunt with you though, in good Scouse on Scouse fashion: deep down you do want Ancelotti (not Everton) to fail, mate, so don't give if you can't take it and don't say otherwise.

We all have different opinions on our beloved team and club. We all get passionate. I'm not accusing you of anything so stop getting precious you big sop.

Got to disagree over Tosun and not for the hell of it. I'll be glad if we kid meathead Sam or anyone to take him off our hands. Same with Bolasie, Besic, Sigurdsson, Gomes, and Pickford, to be honest.

I know a cull like that is ruthless and unusual but we have Marcel, who was a genius in Holland, so I'll take that and run with it. I still say Onyango, young in age or not, needs to be given a go if Carlo is not bluffing over this window. Ditto Simms.

Onward, Evertonians!

Carlo Ancelotti is, this week, according to him, already firmly in his crosshairs should we not be significant in Europe in a year or two. Yet he, like any other supporter, openly recognises the crock-of-shit Carlo inherited. Hmm...

Further, Dazza always slaughters, as I do, the woeful influence and control of Kenwright in the past 25 years, but then he immediately ignores his own opinion in order to quickly denigrate the current manager.

Unlike me, Dazza then extols his perception of the achievements of Kenwright-appointed ex-players to endless coaching roles at Finch Farm, whilst the first team squad flounder on.

I don't know Dazza. I don't know "his" age or gender, but I do know that the last time I had to take notice of such screwed thinking was when my wife went through the menopause a few years back.

Even she now admits it was bizarre.

Except you do, Darren. You've done nothing but whinge for 12 months that it's not an ex-player and that Ancelotti is here purely to top up his pension.

We are fine. We had a loss. In December (plus 1) we were 3 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw. 2.5 points per game, Champions League form.

We'll be just fine. This is a good season. Enjoy it. We'll be top 6 at the end of all this, maybe [MAYBE] top 4.

We had a shitty game, against an anti-footballing side, we looked shit, and they got definably lucky.

All's well. If this continues through February, start bitching. Until then, hold to hope.

Happy New Year.

Wow! Moyes makes Brands signings look like bargains. It can be argued he never had the money but he brought some very poor players to the club.

"Moyes was widely criticised for a conservative team selection for the draw against Brighton on December 27 and admitted afterwards that it was a mistake.

"He has more than learnt his lesson in the two games since. At Southampton and Everton, the Hammers boss went for it with three attacking changes with both games goalless. It didn't pay off on the south coast but brought three points at his old stomping ground on Merseyside."

Yes Friday was "ugly", but those who are tormenting themselves would do well to find a way to relax between games.
Being impatient isn't an option, even for those who don't believe. Carlo is here to stay and there will be many more set backs like this before the project starts to take shape.

This is footy debate and as far as I'm concerned you are quite at liberty to say what you want. As you rightly point out. We are two scouser's having a football debate, not two men of the cloth discussing ecclesiastical differences.
You are totally wrong about me not being able to take it though. I take more stick than anybody on this site. It's water off a ducks back. As John says, people in glass houses...

For the record; I do not dislike Carlo Ancelotti. I dislike bad appointments. Those who have been posting on this site for years, will know I was equally critical of the past five managers. As far as I'm concerned, Carlo is just the latest in a long line of Frankie Howards to be appointed by this club...There can (for me at least ) be no excuse for playing football from behind the couch.
The only thing that makes me sadder than watching cowardly football, is people making lame arsed excuses for it

Those who excuse the shite we have had to endure for decades are right when they say I don't have the credentials to be part of THEIR club.

We may follow the same team, but anybody who doesn't roundly condemn the Frankie Howard approach, will never belong in the same club as me.
As far as I'm concerned there are no mitigating circumstances. There can never be circumstances which make it excusable.

Firstly, there is nothing elite about his football no tactical masterstroke nor inspirational genius to improve moderate players rather a yawn inducing descent into lowest common denominator togger a la Allardyce, Moyes etc.

Secondly, he has done nothing to resolve the play when we feel like it poison that destroyed all previous incumbents bar big Dunc.

Evaluating on the above evidence rather than glowing cv we will inevitably fall down the table and tumble out of the FA cup like bleating sheep rather than defiant lions.

It's all very camp

You are right and I take back that you can't take it; as you rightly say, you take more than most on here.

You don't need it to come from me, but let's keep debating. I do actually agree with you as much as I can disagree with you.

What did you think of the football Carlo had us playing earlier in the season when he had a near full squad?

The biggest miss for me is Allan.
He sets the tempo when he plays.
You only need one player to play high tempo and the rest have no choice but to follow.

Tom Davies may develop into a good player, at the moment he is not near being a like for like replacement for Allan.

We've shown two very different styles, both effective, from the current manager. That's encouraging as far as I'm concerned.

Terrific stuff but always with the caveat "one swallow does not a summer make" and unfortunately that caution has come to pass. Same old, same old has cloaked the false dawn to return us to the darkness that is now our second home.

It is rumoured season ticket holders will be supplied with torches once GP is returned to normal.

I'd go along with that Stan@494, and casting my mind back right from the very first time i went inside Goodison, I can't remember an Everton manager, who could get his team to play in different ways.

It's all about trying to create a winning mentality imo, at a club which has forgotten how to win

Do you consider the change in playing style has anything to do with our injuries?

I think most posters have all said Richarlison doesn't seem to be very happy of late, his body language was never great, but now it looks he cant be bothered, now I hope that's not the case as at his best he is a very good player. But he hasn't displayed his best form for a while now, and I am sure that is apparent to Carlo and our coaching staff. Now is it just a dip in form or is it more serious, I have no idea but we look a far weaker team when Richarlison isn't at it. Then we have James who is a very accomplished player who has the ability to unlock defences with his passing, but he lacks pace and playing wide teams know he hasnt got the pace to get round the back of them, also when we do break quickly he hasn't the pace to join the attack. Many have suggested we move him and play him in the number 10 role, which would allow us to play someone out wide who has pace to join the attack, but the way we are set up our number 10 has to chase down the oppositions back 4 could James do that effectively.

The only other option out wide right is Iwobi who has improved over the last few weeks, but again doesnt score many goals. So with Richarlison not firing and DCL relying on Digne who is out injured, and Iwobi and James hardly consistent goal scorers you wonder where the goals will come from.
Whoever we play in midfield none score enough goals, so with the front 3 not scoring of late and a midfield which lacks goals, then until everybody back fit, then it looks like we will struggle to score many goals. Thankfully the Jan window is open, but given our wage bill can we bring in the quality we need.

What I take issue with is observations like Darren's stating '95% of the performances under Carlo have been painful to watch.'

Yeah, right. And 87.6% of comments on footy forums quoting percentiles are made up. Honest.

For some, once again following a single loss the law of immediacy applies. The last game is used as THE defining yardstick to judge our entire season, Carlo's entire tenancy at Everton.

It doesn't.

Everton's early season form was scintillating, as reflected at the time on these very pages.

We were playing fast, interchanging football some of this thread claim we are not capable of whilst trumpeting up teams below us in the league.

Following a considerable dropping off in results, we regrouped and returned to winning ways. We are now told by some that in both our winning runs we were 'lucky', 'awful' or both.

The very man who says we have been painful to watch in all but one half of football in every ten games shared with us how he had taken money from the bookies for Everton wins against the likes of Chelsea, Leicester and Arsenal.

He took issue with those claiming those wins were based on 'back-to-the-walls' football. I agreed with him. They weren't. We deservedly won those 3 games and away to the Blades, playing astute winning football.

As I said way back in this thread @ 15 before a ball was kicked there was more than enough in that starting XI v WHU to get a win.

No manager can compensate for the collective awfulness of so many players on the day. All the more so following 4 consecutive wins.

I've said it before this season, following the bipolar game-of-two-halves away to Fulham: we cannot fully trust this Everton team yet. They can offer us sublime free-flowing football. They can dig in and win a dog fight. They can be completely cack as they were v WHU.

And yet with all that we are in the mix for a CL or Euro Cup place.

Taking the season as a whole, we're doing all right.

That was from my half-time post @ 26. In the first half, Tom was just that. In the second half, he was poor. His overall performance gave ammunition to both the pro and anti-Tom Davies camp.

First half Tom is an asset. Second half Tom a liability. Simples.

Like you I have growing concerns over Richarlison's form and attitude.

One thing you could never question the Brazilian on was, even if not playing well, he would bust a gut in effort for the team.

Increasingly, he is nowhere near the standards he can perform at. But worse, the fire in his belly, the pressing of the opposition on the ball, the fighting and chasing back to regain the ball for his team, has been quelled.

While he has assisted 3 of Dominic's goals, his own goal-scoring exploits have fallen off a cliff. Just 2 Premier League goals to date, having scored 13 in each of his previous two seasons to be our leading goalscorer.

With Dominic on fire this season, imagine how much healthier our already respectable position could be if Richarlison was also firing on all cylinders as in his previous two seasons.

Poor performances, a loss of form, can happen to any player. Poor attitude is another animal altogether.

Worrying.

Two perfect summations.

And re the gambling poster. I only wish he could give us the tips before the game, not when the game is finished. The bookie has had me on toast over the holiday

The bigger picture is we have done ok so far, and a huge plus is we have proved we can bounce back from a poor result. Top six teams all have setbacks but what sets them apart is the reaction to those setbacks and the ability to get the wheels back on track.

Previous results say we are well capable of it so I think we shouldn't go overboard and meltdown just yet. Often a bit of steel and mental fortitude is needed in times of adversity not wholesale changes that may solve nothing.

There's two excellent games coming up against Rotherham and Wolves where the players and manager can make amends.

You could look at all games in terms of luck or the weakness of the opposition but, in my experience, that's quite a futile exercise and a form of ‘mental paralysis through over-analysis', for want of a better phrase.

All I know is, we've played very effectively, in two very contrasting styles, against a wide range of opposition, and have come out decently despite a big injury toll. A decent position in the table. Not perfect or brilliant, just decent and encouraging.

I'm not over-raising my hopes, because Everton have a track record of raising us up then letting us down. But that doesn't stop me from being encouraged thus far.

Early in the season, he was pushing on and creating stuff. Calvert-Lewin was the focal point and scoring from delivery from wide areas. Richarlison's running off the ball and link-up play give Digne space to deliver quality.

With Digne's injury and his own injury and suspensions, we have had to change the shape of the team. Godfrey, whilst defensively solid, hasn't got the quality link-up or delivery of Digne. Richarlison is also being asked to play as a deeper left mid to compress the play.

His body language is poor – win, lose or draw – that's just his natural demeanor. It isn't a coincidence that, without him in the team, we are toothless and tend not to win.

As ever, I'm looking for a '7th' finish and I suspect he and his masters will say 'That will do nicely, thank you.'

Gawd knows whether the Bramley-Moore Dock project will ever get underway but I'm sure it would soon disappear from the agenda if we were to even flirt with relegation. And we won't.

Any top-flight manager should deliver '7th' – particularly with Saint Moshiri looking over him with bags of money !

I agree with many of your observations because they are based on fact, but the ineptitude (or otherwise) of Carlo Ancelotti is, in my opinion, to be decided some time in the future.

I don't know your age but I would hazard a guess that you are able to recall the time when a section of fans called for the dismissal of Howard Kendall. The Board, however, ignored the request of those fans, a wise decision considering the success that followed.

I am fortunate inasmuch as I don't have to watch the below-par games due to my TV 'live games' boycott, but I can assure you that it's equally painful to listen to them via the radio. I'm just as disappointed as any Evertonian but my days of anger are long since gone. I attend games with my Grandson and I have instilled in him that anything can happen in a game of football. The experience I have learned over the years will hopefully stand him in good stead.

If I'm still around in 3 years time, I may share your view of Carlo Ancelotti, but I'm prepared to give him the time to build his own team, when judgement can be more readily applied.

Let's examine some of these claims that we are only pug ugly because we have been without the superstars Carlo used his undisputed pulling power to bring in. Why? ... Because it is total bollocks.

After the excellent performance at Spurs, we were served huge helpings of luck, first when a West Brom team which had us on the rack lost a player to a red card. Yeah, we run away with it, but playing 10 men chasing the game helped.

The game against Palace was won when we were awarded a penalty which would have had every Evertonian screaming the house down if it was awarded against us... Free-flowing football? You're having a laugh. We were treated to some moments of magic from James and a golden period by Calvert-Lewin... That's about it.

Eight goals against Bradford & Bingley in the Carabao Cup were fun to watch and, let's face it, they were right up Carlo's street. He has made a career out of beating teams with vastly superior players in his ranks... and, even if Man Utd came and rendered those wins worthless, the goals we scored gave the stattos plenty to get excited about.

Liverpool came to Goodison Park and, although it was great to see them have a decision go against them, deep in our hearts, we know we deserved nothing.

Then Southampton: We were twatted. Because Carlo's signings didn't play? Nope – just like against Liverpool, all three played. We were abject.

On to Newcastle; again, twatted. Doucouré and the Brazilian Peter Reid spent the entire game impersonating headless chickens.

The Mancs come to town; again, twatted... surely because Carlo's signings were missing? Nope. All three played.

Leeds ran us ragged... all three played.

Even a Burnley side who could not buy a point made us look ordinary... all three played.

Good wins at Leicester and against Chelsea were achieved without James... Allan missed most of the game at Leicester too.

The much Maligned Tom Davies came in for the Arsenal and Sheffield games... We were ugly as fuck but we won them both. He didn't chase around tackling everything in sight, he just held his discipline and we never looked like conceding.

In between, we lost to The Mancs again... I'm pretty sure Tom was rested for that one.

Now before the usual excitable's start screaming "How dare you compare Tom Davies to the Brazilian Peter Reid?" I'm not.
What I am pointing out is that the claim that we have been shite because Tom has played and Allan hasn't, is demonstrable bollocks. Just as much bollocks as the claim that Calvert-Lewin stopped scoring because James isn't there to lay his goals on.

Calvert-Lewin's form has dropped off because Carlo Fatanstico thinks it's a great idea to suffocate the golden goose and turn it into Kevin Davies.

Friday's game was shaming. I cannot believe our manager has allowed us to be humiliated by The Ginger Twat. Even on the Live Forum people were calling for Carlo to take the initiative, and go and win it. It says everything that a serial coward like Moyes was the one who felt encouraged and emboldened enough to go for the kill.

I wonder where Carlo would have been if it hadn't been for the heroics of his "Championship" centre-forward? I guess we will never know.

Who would you like in?

That kind of deconstruction of games is what I was referring to earlier. Luck and officiating decisions go both ways. If we don't win, people aren't happy (and rightly so), and when we do win, there is very often claims that we were lucky, or the opposition were just shite, or the officials were on our side.

Everton can't win with such arguments. With the latter, even if we win the league, individual games could be deconstructed to try to show how lucky we were, etc. I remember RS supporters doing it in the 80s, starting with our FA Cup Final win against Watford.

Everton are absolutely frustrating far too often, but if you do that deconstruction business, you can argue it any way you want depending on how you choose to deconstruct. You could be relegated but still argue that you should have won the league, or vice versa. It is an example of paralysis through analysis that can produce any conclusion you want. The analysis can be chosen to fit the already-reached conclusion.

It's the kind of thing politicians hire consultants to do, to try to justify decisions that have already been taken.

John, I mentioned that earlier. Perhaps I was too young at the time, but I never called for Kendall to go when many were distributing leaflets. Like you say, anything can happen in football so my opinion just got lucky. I could look back and claim visionary footballing knowledge, but I know making predictions is just a punt.

I'm with Darren to an extent on recent appointments though. Repeating myself (again), I understood what Moyes had to do part 1, but got frustratied with his ability to go further (part 2). I was nervous at best when we opted for Martinez and almost had to eat humble pie. I got blinkered by my memories of Koeman as a player and the Silva appointment freaked me out. I try not to think of Sam Allardyce ever being associated with Everton Football Club.

In all of the above's reigns, I got behind the managers. Praised when due, overly supported them at times I admit, criticised when necessary or they frustrated me. Admittedly I struggled with Allardyce.

With Ancelotti, I'm not an excuser or a sycophant, but I do respect his pedigree and believe he's a manager who can progress us more than the above list. I would caveat that by saying Moyes deserves credit for where he got us to in the context of where he picked us up. No big fan, but bigger picture, that has to be acknowledged. That's how Carlo will be judged but now, partly because of his brand, partly because he has a billionaire owner, the expectation is higher and rightly so. We are Everton despite how the national media try to frame us.

Carlo deserves criticism for poor performances but bigger picture, we are in a better place than 12 months ago. He deserves credit for that. Work in progress and we are progressing.

He is the Brazilian Peter Reid though Darren. Glad it's caught on; has a ring to it!

What you should not use in posting is double standards. Darren used the paucity of players available, plus the injuries, to excuse Unsworth's mishaps. Can't have it both ways.

There is no better for us than Ancelotti at the moment. Even though he makes mistakes, his squad isn't good enough and pehaps he should have given Nkounkou another go. He can't rely on Bernard, Davies, Gomes, nor Tosun or Richarlison for that matter.

The funny thing is... we are still right up there! Even with only a half-decent squad. We can't be that far away...

Impossible to say but if you think about it your question misses the point.

It is the responsibility of the manager to ensure his squad is strong enough to deal with absentees every man and his dog recognised wholesale replacements were required in the summer.

Addressing squad weakness is his responsibility and he is now on the verge of reaping the whirlwind of that failure. I might add this is not being wise after the event I posted such thoughts pre window.

Data can be manipulated, included or omitted to fit any point of view or support any argument.

However, most sides in the Premier League could be criticised for not ensuring sufficient strength-in-depth. In fact, it's been implied in the case of Liverpool when they've had a poor result and blamed it own someone like St Virgil being injured. In our case, when we win it becomes less of a criticism, but when we lose it rears up very clearly, especially after a bad performance.

You haven't half spouted some shite on here, but that Bradford & Bingley one was a proper keyboard sprayer.

To be fair, Ancelotti has brought signings into the club. Every single one of them has improved the squad. We do need more, but difficult to do it all in one window.

All the best

Cowards, the lot of 'em!

He has pace, can dribble and shoot, is a good header of the ball, chases down the opposition well-an undervalued part of playing the role – and his goal opportunities per game would increase.

The problem is rectifying squad paucity is really a one year opportunity otherwise the project goes into a self-perpetuating moribund spiral with better players getting itchy feet as per Lukaku and Stones.

Richarlison and Digne will be next to hop off and the good ship Everton will continue to spiral aimlessly in the delusion that 3 or 4 windows will do it.

Really we need a properly funded explosive revolution of the type Martinez tried to give in his initial recruitment campaign – if only he had access to proper funds to ditch that dreadful Moyes defence.

It's interesting that you've (appropriately) ingnored our victories against Brighton and Fulham out of our "pug ugly" football since the Spurs game.

I thought the West Brom game was a good, open, attacking game... great for the neutral from start to finish. The extra man might've ultimately helped us but I don't think we were on the ropes and there's no denying some of our attacking play was a joy to watch.

Crystal Palace were tough on the day but there was some good football played by both teams, I seem to recall. Our loveable neighbors I thought, dominated the midfield but we did look dangerous when we attacked and did play some good football.

In short, I think we played some good attacking (attractive) football in our first five league games when nearly at full strength as a squad. Far from "pug ugly" IMO.

You mention us getting "twatted" against Newcastle. For what it's worth, I thought both teams were terrible. But, we had Coleman, Digne, Richarlison and James all unavailable. That's our entire left and right flank which we started the season with. Even Nkounkou started that game – and Iwobi had a nightmare.

I'm sorry, Darren, your post smacks of including and then excluding certain events to suit your argument.

1. Second half at Fulham
2. Last 30 home to Chelsea
3. Last 30 home to Arsenal
4. Sheffield Utd away
5. Man Utd home in the league
6. Man Utd in the Carabao Cup Quarterfinal
7. Leeds Utd at home
8. West Ham Utd at home

You can also add into the mix several performances post-lockdown such as Bournemouth at home and Wolves away.

Yes... I am aware we won a few of the above games but the fact remains the tactics in those games were awful. Managers with backbone would have gone on to win those games by scoring more goals.

When Ancelotti sees us in the lead, he turns into Corporal Jones and starts panicking. Off come the offensive players, on come the defenders. Then it's the Alamo, defending our 18-yard box to the last man.

I really worry what Rotherham will do to Ancelotti's weakened/rotated square pegs in round holes outfit. I suspect he'll park the bus and play for pens.

"Bring back attacking, winning football to Everton!" Anyone know where the leaflets are?

With the players we've recruited and made multi-millionaires, I'm always slightly worried about relegation; I even worry about Moshiri pulling out and us sinking into oblivion.

We are seriously mismanaged from top to bottom. Carlo Ancelotti is here for the money, he's parlayed his reputation perfectly to get his contract and helped us sign some players but I've no doubt they're on ridiculous contracts too.

We've been waiting for transfer windows to fix us now for years and years. I think we are capable of getting top 4 this season. That's what we should be aiming for and truly believing we can achieve. We can't keep finding reasons to put if off. If we do, it won't happen.

Thanks for that mate.
My bets gone down (again) that post cheered me right up.

Reverting back to my own principles. I judge the performance of the manager and the team over the course of a season. I have and will judge the manager's performance over the course of his tenure, however long that lasts.

Not 5 minutes against Fulham or 30 minutes against Arsenal to make it fit my argument. We won both those games. But that's just me.

In football you play for 90 minutes. You will very rarely dictate a game for 90 minutes just like a season is (now) 38 games. You will very rarely play fantastic(o) in every single game and win them all.

Because guess what, the other team wants to beat you too. Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted but some seem to be ignoring that basic fundamental aspect of the game.

Sometimes you play well and deservedly win. Sometimes you play well and lose. Sometimes you play shit and win. Sometimes you play shit and deservedly lose. That's football for you. If you go attacking, you will generally leave yourself more open at the back and be more prone to concede (hence 5 - 2, 4 - 2 etc). If you go defensively tight you are hard to beat but the goals dry up and the striker might be isolated.

Only when you are the best in the league do you tend to be capable of both. We are not. Our target this season is not to win the league, it is to challenge for European qualification and we are on track to do that.

I don't understand how you expect us to be better than we are and why you think Ancelloti is the reason. I suspect you think Duncan should have got the job, in which case, say so. If not... who? (And don't give Ian's rubbish excuse of “It's not my job to pick the manager”)

Who do you think would be doing better? What's your opinion other than it's not Ancelloti?

I'm as frustrated as you are that we didn't beat Man Utd and that we didn't go 2nd on Friday night but really, where did you expect us to be after a year of Ancelloti (or insert manager of choice here)??

But over the course of the match we didn't (awful in the first half an hour). But I could pick a spell that would fit my argument if I wanted to make it - I don't.

I think the problem with Carlo is that despite his impressive CV I see nothing in the way of urgency about him. I've touched on the missed opportunity of the summer window potentially biting him on the arse but the shocking malaise of players playing when they fancy it continues unabated.

Despite our present league position (which I suspect will descend below 6th and remain that way) I find the overall picture not as promising as the brochure alluded to upon his arrival.

That has improved on what we had this time last year.

I hope right now the urgency is behind the scenes. As others have said here, may come the start of next season with another 2 windows out the way, it will be different.

This was never going to be sorted out in one transfer window.

I just want us to improve each season. To me, we're far far better than we were under Silva and I expect we will continue improving.

I have no issues at all so far with Ancelotti – he seems a steady manager who will improve us incrementally as opposed to a a revolutionist like Mourinho – just his management style and I like it.

Do we have any answers? I truly hope so, however, in 30 years, I am more than used to disappointment.

Really, I'm meant to fear no man, being chosen by Everton, makes me conjoined twins with frustration, humiliation and shame.

Please, dear Lord, show us, the afflicted supporters, that the meek at least have a chance of competing with the media muppets and their gaggle of darkness. Amen.

Will you please make posts about other games on the Premier League thread, not this one.

Thanks.

I get your point and will refrain.

Brilliant mate. Absolutely brilliant post. 😁😁

My bigger concern is that we're thinking of offering an extension to Gylfi. He must be a good trainer because I just don't see his value. His reputation as a dead-ball specialist would be up there with saying Bernard is a ball-winner.

I've lost count of so-called expert pundits who use phrases like “ball on a sixpence” – only if the sixpence is in the keeper's hands. We need to get shut, not extend his lucrative contract.

One transfer window, a manager coming in mid-season, then that season interrupted by a pandemic, resulting in a truncated pre-season and a bunch of ridiculous internationals squeezed into a short space of time, in an already shortened season.

Not really normal circumstances.

The players that Ancelotti brought in, well, do they not get a bedding-in period? Allan – new to the league, James – new to the league, and the others new to the club. Nkounkou, Branthwaite and Godfrey – all ones for the future, Doucouré, new club, new way of playing.

For me, there have been many variants in Ancelotti's reign, unprecedented variables, as mentioned above.

I was massively disappointed with the West Ham game, as mentioned previously, that team should have been good enough to see off West Ham at home – regardless of your views on tactics (I wanted 4-4-2 to find gaps in the West Ham deep backline), and was massively peeved at the players' attitude – fist-bumping smiles and shirt swapping at the final whistle, when just being beaten at home by a team below you.

I will judge Ancelotti once he has had a full season, a couple of transfer windows, and something like normality. The squad is a hodgepodge of Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce and Silva signings. No continuity, whatsoever for quite a period of time.

Ancelotti is certainly not above criticism, but think of the weird circumstances when he came into the job, and the absolute incohesive squad he inherited.

I take that into consideration.

I've just finished a full-on lockdown Game of Thrones marathon and that post had the same inspirational lingo. 👍😁

Look at how poor United were that day, and look at them now? They're not the finished article but they've improved massively, and if they got rid of Solsjkar tomorrow, then he would have left them in a much better place, even if he's not the man to take them forward.

Give Ancellotti time, because you don't get the jobs he's had, for being a defensive coach, and let's give the manager a bit of time.

I know, it's only rock 'n' roll, but I like it!

Touched me that post mate.

All the best

No guarantees and it could go the other way, but so far – despite disappointing performances and results like West Ham – we are in a much-improved position.

Every team in the league is made up of players accumulated by a succession of managers over the years. Judgement should be based on how the current manager can organise all the players in his charge to re-act to his direction. Nothing less.

I think the point being made is give the manager time and judge him over a period. Game by game criticism or praise is totally understandable and acceptable but that is short-term opinion, not longer term judgement.

Fuck attacking winning football, that can come later, I'll take “the dogs of war” style and another FA Cup victory, but I've always been very thankful for small mercies, and I'm absolutely desperate to see us win a cup again, something probably half of our fan base have never even seen us do.

This vision of Everton having to do things a certain way has got to stop, because the vision of a United fanbase has always been the most powerful force in our club. Let's stick together, let's win something, let's sing, dance and party, and only then should we argue about wanting attacking football imvho!

That is one serious post mate.
Love it.

Waiting to build the next Alex Ferguson academy team takes decades and rarely comes along; that was a freak and they too were blessed with being surrounded by experienced players.

Successful teams blend both youth and experience. I think that's where we're going with this manager.

I'll never accept Everton nicking a goal and then parking the bus and getting Alamo-ed for 30 mins, or parking the bus from the start at home in a Cup QF.

It's shithouse tactics. I'll never accept it.

Some have forgotten since Moyes left, the talk on this forum at Chrimbo has been about relegation, not whether we can win anything or qualify for Europe. Switched-on posters have always pushed back at the actuality of the unthinkable but it was heralded as a reality by many TWebbers under the last 4 protagonists.

Not this year, not a chance, that's progress and I'm no apologist or acceptor of mediocrity – I can see an improvement that's all, never mind sitting 4 points off the top and not shitting myself every time the opposition has an attack. We have some snarlers as well; Godfrey & Allan have been called for by TW Sages for years... Well, we have two now.

Yes, West Ham was shite but it was almost last season's team, which is less consistent than it was, but always capable of a pony performance, and the players the Don has brought in are an improvement. Without doubt yes, his subs are a bit mad and he rotates when the gulf in player quality is phenomenal (Cenk for Calvert-Lewin) but he has brought players on by not giving a fuck for convention or what we as fans think.

So I'm gonna stick my neck out and say something that I haven't been able to say about many Everton managers lately – that he's going to be here next season.

6 managers in less than 8 years, that's going to have an impact on continuity, especially when a lot of them recruited heavily.

Love it lads.
The spirit of defiance.

Trouble is, we are not even hamsters of war at the moment and while we have one of the dogs as part of the management team, it would seem that he has little impact on the thought process of his managerial colleagues.

I thought that's what we were doing scoring 3, 4 and 5 goals in games with a fully fit first 11.

4 managers in a year is it? Or less than a year?

Also, Ancelotti has had his hands tied financially, although I still cannot get my head around modern day transfer fees, I remember being amazed that Heath's fee was something like £700,000!

It's like saying Liverpool are only missing Robertson and Henderson.

When you're missing two important players, it's more impactful than missing several average ones.

Coleman was out for a number of games, Richarlison too. 4 creative players.

It's a lot!

ToffeeWebbers may be interested to note that Ancelotti has been in charge of 38 League games and we have only won 4 by more than a one goal margin. One of those was against the 10 men of WBA. This suggests the tactics are nick one and hang on.

Added to that the Richarlison suspension, and we already know we rarely win games when he's not playing. We also greatly missed Coleman and we were terrible until Ancelotti decided to go with 4 CB's.

I also doubt Coleman and James are fully fit now, and are only playing through necessity.

Despite that we're 4 points off 1st place and you want the manager sacked. I can understand people moaning about certain tactics and team selections in certain games but wanting a new manager is just ridiculous.

If we don't win whilst scoring at least two goals, it doesn't count.

I play a little game with myself when I come onto TW. I try to see if I can spot people who have "played". Not because I think they know better, but because I think they see things from a slightly different angle.

I knew you had played before you actually said you had. I just knew it... You have become one of the posters I look out for. So I've gorra ask; What the fuck are you talking about Lad? "Dogs of War"?

That may go down well with the Southport set, but so do half-priced cream buns and happy hour port and lemons. You, My friend, know better.

I get what you meant, Tony. There's more than one way to skin a cat -– but Dogs of War? Under Carlo?

You must know you are far more likely to get a "Poodles of Princess Park" performance? Baggio, Pirlo, Zidane did not do "Dogs of War". They probably wouldn't even grasp the concept. Neither would Carlo.

Personally. I would pay top dollar to get into a pre-match Carlo dressing room, if only to dispel my suspicion that I would not find a beating heart.

I love your post, Tony, but Dogs of War??? I think this lock-down lark is getting to you mate. Go 'an kick someone wearing red!

Over those 38 games, we had a 3 month or so break for a pandemic, a shortened pre-season, a congested fixture list, plenty of injuries and suspensions, plus a new management team.

2 of the 4 players I mentioned were back for the West Ham game, only 2 starters were Ancelotti buys.

Ancelotti, Silva, Koeman or Allardyce.

I know what my choice would be.

16 games in, 4 behind the champions and league leaders whilst not playing well at times.

I will take that! A win percentage of over 56% in the league this season. I will take that.

He's not beyond criticism, but we are better off now that when he took over, by a long shot!

We were lucky against the Baggies, we have played some good stuff at times, but there have been some awful performances, often in the first half. Southampton, Newcastle and second half at Fulham.

We scored a great goal at Bramall Lane but then went all defensive and could easily have been punished late on. In many of these games we had some or all of our "best" eleven. Liverpool could have buried us in the derby.

Now I am quite happy to see what Carlo can do with a team that has his stamp on it, after a couple more windows etc etc.

However let's not miss the point. We have often been as bad as we were under all of the other snake-oil salesmen. I have wasted lots of time and money over the years making a big effort to see our team, especially away from home. I have been let down badly so often. Making my way home thinking that the players were frauds and the manager a coward.

This guy seems nice, he's media-friendly, he likes Crosby. But I couldn't give a fuck if he likes Manchester and lives in a penthouse overlooking Old Trafford. I am only interested in what he can do for us.

Come the end of the season, if he gets us his goal of Europa football, then I will be happy. If he fails to do so and we finish outside of those places but we show signs that next season will be better, then okay. But if he thinks he has done a good job when we know he has left 10 points behind due to a lack of nous or motivation, then he will have failed.

Yes, it's too early to say he's a busted flush but let's see how everyone is feeling at the end of the season coz at the moment Man City are past us, and Southampton, West Ham, Chelsea and Arsenal are right behind us.

Remember the club let Walcott go to a rival for Europa football, and Kean go without a replacement. Does anyone think Levy would let Dele come to Goodison? No chance.

Carlo was surely involved in those decisions. If we don't go out and get someone like King in this window then we have not got the ambition to hit top 4. I think our players have taken the proverbial foot off the gas because he has let the whole world know that 5th, 6th, 7th is okay.

Knife to a gunfight tactics are not acceptable.

We were drawing 0-0 at Sheff Utd who hadn't got a win all season and Ancelotti told Sigurdsson to play holding mid. Thankfully he ignored him.

The Manager being shit scared of West Ham at home is extremely worrying.

Refusing to attack a Leicester team who have many players lying in waiting to counter-attack is one thing. I accept and appreciate the intelligence of that. That disciplined performance hasn't quite been given due credit it deserved. Let me rectify that. It was a superb performance – Leicester are nailed on top 4.

But its gonna take an awful lot from Carlo to win over an already skeptical fan base. Any brownie points he may have accumulated went out of the window when he blinked first when eyeballing The Ginger Twat.

Just as you was also not mistaken when you described Rodriguez as maybe not a soldier, but it doesn't mean he hasn't got plenty of soul. (Winners always find soul imo, and Ancellotti has won almost everything.)

Ian E, Danny was right, I'm a total purist, but sometimes winning has just got to be more important, and both my sons, who have been everywhere to watch Everton, have reached adult age and have still to witness that joy.

To be taken seriously we need to be buying players that the top 4 would line up. Grealish, Rice or Philips will be getting a big move soon enough.

Maybe Liverpool and the two Manchester clubs will pull away... But Spurs and Leicester are strong, Arsenal and Chelsea will move forward, and hopefully Everton stay in the pack as loads of teams drop like flies.

I honestly think this is how the very experienced Ancellotti might be seeing things, but maybe Darren is right and I've turned from a crank into a locked-down lunatic!!

We tried the same tactics when those players were missing and we were badly found out against the likes of Newcastle and Saints. Carlo adapted, played 4 centre-backs and went defensive and deployed tactics you'll see in many Italian teams.

Does anyone think previous managers like Martinez or Silva would have changed the style of play with those injuries to important players?! I never saw a tactical Plan B from them, nor Koeman and Allardyce for that matter.

The manager isn't beyond criticism. I was pissed off when he brought on Tosun for Calvert-Lewin instead of going with a 4-4-2 but I'm not going to start calling the managers head.

Barring a few team formations, like Chelsea away last season, and Newcastle away this season, Ancellotti has got things largely right and his win record bears that out.

Knowing Tony A has played does not make me the amazin Kreskin. It's fucken obvious, mate.

The fact that I know he is the second most knowledgeable Abrahams on this site hardly sets me up as Mystic Meg either.

I fucked up big time when I never turned up to meet them when I had the chance... at least you don't need to say that.

I guess I foolishly believed it would just happen sometime.

Hopefully it will when the world sorts itself out and soft fuckers like me stop assuming "It`ll be alright on the night".

This will change soon though, players will come back from injury, and if Everton become to easy to play against again, I will be the first to criticise. Even if I'm aware that this is not an easy job that Carlo Ancellotti has been given, you only have to read these pages to be aware of this!

All of us want to win playing in style but we all know that age-old saying; you have to win your battles to earn the right to play. Sometimes that means playing and winning ugly. If you can't win pretty, that's what you sometimes have to do, even when you are the best.

With Tony, this season is up for grabs. Liverpool and Man City will be top of the pile possibly challenged by Man Utd but beyond that anything can happen.

Right now we are staying with the pack which is giving us a very realistic chance of achieving European football next season.

Not a lunatic in my view Tony, you're just drinking from the fountain of optimism as am I.

I'm not predicting doomsday, nor am I prophetising the second coming with Saint Carlo at the helm. But I do think we have a chance of achieving a target of European football.

Did you play?

If you did, what league?

A light-hearted response to your observation.

I'm pretty certain that Pirlo – the greatest footballing brain that ever lived – had to dig in at times.

Rumour has it, that he was once so flustered, he had to order a second cigar to be delivered to his deck chair.

A counter to the view that you need raw physical pace and an ability to run fast to win a game of football.

The brain more often than not outwits physical strength. The pen is mightier than the sword as the saying goes.

That said, he should be applauded for his piercing insight in identifying that the self-admitted former footballer of some distinction and insight, our Tony Abrahams, has always been a talented former footballer with insight. Wow!

Both of them make comment on the Dogs of War team (Big Joe always regretting that term) but I agree with Tony, we may just need a dose of that to progress us to the top six or seven, prosaic as much of the DOW football was.

I doubt Moshiri has a vid of Ebbrell, Joe P and Barry Horne in his library, and a good thing too. His promise, oft-repeated, is to achieve far better than that and his signings (and they are his signings in terms of money) since Carlo Ancelotti arrived seem to be heading towards achieving what he says he wants to achieve. It'll just take another two or three windows, some nerve, luck, and a shed-load of professionalism at USMFF.

It's great when people start talking about brains on a football field though. I was just thinking about falling asleep, getting ready for another long day tomorrow, now they've decided to keep my kids' school shut, and I just got a picture of that majestic will o' the wisp, Iniesta, constantly sidestepping his opponent, whilst creating space for his teammates, what joy in such simplicity!

The closest we came to getting a goal was Bernard having a go from 20 yards. The free-kick from our "dead ball specialist" was woeful.

Ancelotti has us solid at the back but scared to take chances in the final third. Richarlison needs to play as a second striker now and then to give us more options.

I would like to see our midfielders get a bit more involved too. They are too often found watching the game in the final third instead of causing defenders problems. They don't make enough runs beyond Calvert-Lewin.

Tony Abrahams, Iniesta and Javi, the best midfielders I have seen in the flesh. Oh to go back to Barcelona...

Brian 597. Would you have taken Cavani in the summer? Age catches up with all players but a quality player, regardless of age, should be considered if available.

I am all for adding quality and clearing out mediocrity. I would love a couple of statement signings in the summer so that we could genuinely shock and challenge the top 4.

Danny, I do just want to say to you that I know you feel unity is the key and you come across as a great guy and a great Evertonian but this calling fellow Blues as wanting to fail is not really acceptable. I can't speak for Darren or any other Blue but I would really doubt that any Evertonian wants us to lose games of football.

You have repeated this mantra on a few threads of 'I support Everton and therefore Carlo and anyone who doesn't automatically wants Everton to fail or is not supporting the club'. This was the only disappointing post I have seen on this thread whether meant in the spirit it came across or not.

I will use the example of Jordan Pickford to explain my feeling for Carlo. Personally, I am not sure he is the keeper we need to make us great. Judging Jordan this season, I think he has so far had a good season. I believe he was made some vital saves at crucial stages and has definitely won us points; he has had a few wobbles also and moments we don't want to see again.

I have defended him when I think justified and, every time he takes to the pitch, I support him as much as I do Holgate, who is a player who I do think is one who can help make us great. Supporting Everton and not thinking Ancelotti is the bees knees is not a contradiction – nor does it infringe on the other.

In every game, Carlo has the option of changing people's perceptions of him, both good and bad. The more we see of the Tottenham performances, the more you will see his criticism diminish. Do those who doubt Carlo say we were lucky in that game? Do they say Spurs had chances? Do they say Spurs weren't fit or that we only scored one or that we weren't that good?

No; that was a performance of control and dominance and swagger. if we play like that, we can go toe to toe with anybody and, without exception, there seems agreement on the quality we showed that day. That game made me say "Wow, just fucking wow! He may just go and do it, you know!"

It is the only time I have questioned my own preconceptions; it got me super excited and we looked like a really well-coached progressive modern team. Unfortunately for me, it is a solitary display when it should be the template reached on a more regular basis. As for being proved wrong, some of the people I respect most in life are the ones who have done so. It's also how we learn and improve by challenging our norms.

We all want the same thing. Some are clearly seeing progress and evolution; others are yet to see the method or pathway to how they see a successful Everton. But it don't mean they don't want to.

I am backing him 100%.

I noticed your name keeps popping up all over threads, So I just had a quick scan down this one.

This has been a Heinz Baked Beans performance. 57 posts from you on this thread alone. Magnificent effort. I have to say. I'm 100% in agreement with your last one.

Anyone who thinks Ancelotti is not the right man for us needs to give your head a wobble. As a manager, he's won league titles in four different countries, three Champions League trophies as a manager, two as a player and numerous domestic cups.

Granted he inherited winning teams along the way, and also in countries where it's a one man show, PSG, Bayern Munich for example, and even in Spain with Real Madrid the biggest obstacle was Barcelona, and maybe Atletico Madrid, but trophies still had to be won, they're not given away, and let's face it, winning three champions league trophies against the cream of Europe is not exactly a stroll in the park.

So he comes to Everton, a pretty poor squad he inherited, and what happens, does dementia set in, does he suddenly forget how to set up a winning team? Of course not.

As I say he inherited a poor squad which he is slowly rebuilding and will take time. The players he's signed, notably Rodriguez and Allan, we wouldn't have signed if it weren't for Carlo. Jeez, imagine if Allardyce was in charge (nurse put me on a ventilator) those two would have only need look at the name 'Allardyce' and would have gone away pissing themselves laughing.

Like Thomas # 620, I'm 100% behind Carlo and I too think he's here for the duration of his contract and beyond. Aside from Howard Kendall, he's the best manager we've ever had and I'm convinced it's only a matter of time before the first trophy rolls off the conveyor belt!!

Are you sure you didn't question your preconceptions when, if we had won our game in hand, we would have gone into the New Year one point behind the leaders? From relegation candidates to challenging for the top spot in eleven months isn't enough for you to change the thumbs down on Carlo to a thumbs up?

That is a high high bar you've set up there for a club that's been pretty hard to watch these last 30 years.

57?
Really?

How time flys when your having fun.

"Anyone who thinks Ancelotti is not the right man for us need to give your head a wobble."

Rob, I'm with you full square on this. For all the reasons you post. Watch the next couple of meaningful transfer windows, when the real deals are made in the summer, and we won't see Carlo sticking with all of the core of this squad and making no significant signings.

Don't forget Harry Catterick – if Ancelotti can produce the type of stylish winning football that characterised most of Harry's era, I suspect the majority of us would be much more content than we have been for the last 30 years.

I make a point of never comparing Harry or Howard as both were dedicated to the club and loved Everton to their last bone – it is worth bearing in mind that it was Harry who started Howard's love of all things Everton.

I don't think Ancelotti is the right man for the job here. I never wanted Carlo, I reckon he is way past his best. Nothing wrong with that – it happens to us all. Past achievements from 10 to 15 years ago means nothing today.

Carlo is at the age in football when retirement comes a-calling. By your own theory, being a past makes someone a viable option and a winner today then Sir Alec Ferguson or Arsene Wenger could also be in the frame for a Premier League job, couldn't they?

Some of the tactics, line-ups and substitutions Carlo is making are absolutely diabolical. The Tosun for Calvert-Lewin sub the other night sums it up for me. Friday night against West Ham was the worst display of football l have seen from an Everton side since the Mike Walker days, right through the Moyes era.

I don't know one Evertonian who thinks we are playing well or look a different team under Carlo Ancelotti.

The football Everton play is atrocious – no difference from Marco Silva – and we are very very lucky to have won so many games this season.

When Carlo was appointed I wasn't under the illusion this guy is a clown. It is clear even in his time at Everton that he has a habit of winning tight games against similar and inferior opponents.

Personally I couldn't have seen us get 9 points from those three decent sides and we did and, from that perspective, he is always challenging my thinking and proving to me that he is capable of achieving his objective of a top six finish.

To help you understand my logic I backed Man Utd to win the league at 40-1. I didn't feel they would definitely win it but I felt they were one of only three teams that could win enough games to do so. They were 16th at the time. Utd are now second.

Personally I am no more or less confident that I will be collecting that bet. The doubts I have about their centre forward scoring enough goals, the dependence on Maguire and Fernandes fitness and my doubts about whether Solskaer is at the same level as his two adversaries and their lack of being in that situation at the business end still remain.

Similarly with us I think we have a top seven squad and pointswise and positionwise I think Carlo on the whole is slightly overachieving. Personally I feel other teams around us have struggled with the demands of European Football. I feel we have squeezed out every point we could except this latest game, I feel Carlo was at his best in those three tough games and we have a tougher looking second half with many tough games. I wish I had Stan's confidence but I am only cautiously optimistic.

Kevin I didn't go overboard when we beat West Brom or Brighton and likewise I didn't feel we were that bad against Leeds Utd. In truth, I saw three similar performances with the difference being our front three were super effective in the former and that Leeds standard was at a high level that we were unable to reach. Personally I feel, to be guaranteed top six, we need to increase our level on a consistent basis.

Yes, fair points and it is still early days. But we've gone on two runs this season, seven straight wins and four straight wins, something is clicking into gear here, this is different from what went before, in my view.

I was more getting at specifically wanting Ancelotti to fail, but that, by default, affects Everton, so much the same thing.

So I accept the call out and criticism for something of an ill-thought, badly chosen cheap shot. I think I've apologised to Darren already. Definitely not my finest comment on here.

Q: Do we have a good strength-in-depth squad? A: No.

Q: Would any of the top 10 managers with their philosophies have Everton sitting in a better position than we are now? A: No.

The reason why my answer is No to Question 2 is because of Question 1. Also, the style of play that Klopp, Pep, Rogers, Arteta, Lampard etc like to play is the high press game and we don't have the personnel to do it.

So, for me, we have the best manager to get this squad into the top 6 – and he will IMO.

We should also not forget the second half at Fulham when we were outclassed and, but for a slip when taking a penalty, we would have lost a 3-goal lead.

I genuinely worry about losing to Rotherham.

So, what happened? We won all four games that we were mostly expecting to lose. We then lost a game to a team that we all thought we could beat.

Result – we are not 10th nor 15th, we are presently, comfortably at 7th, but could be 4th except for goal difference and we also have a game in hand over the team in 3rd.

But, the "except for goal difference", is, I feel, the crucial point here. If we fail to make the top six, or the top 4 this season, I think it will be goal difference that costs us.

Given the squad he started with and the few additions he has been able to make, Carlo is doing better than "alright".

This season has to be seen as a stepping stone and as the transfer windows pass and more of Carlo's chosen type of players are added to the squad, I, for one, can see us challenging at the very top end of the table – and let's face it, that is where we all want to be.

I'm 100% certain we'll finish in the top 20 of the Premier League this season – which is great progress IMO.

My only criticism of him is that he only has 2 goalkeepers on the bench, when we need at least 3.

I didn't realise there was a restriction on the number of posts. I haven't counted the posts I made but I'm sure David is correct. Will keep an eye on it.

Alex Ferguson was 71 years old when he retired from Man Utd (didn't he win the Premier League in the year he retired?) and I've no doubt many of their fans were disappointed to see him go.

Put it this way, they've won next to sweet fuck-all since he went, apart from a League Cup, FA Cup and Europa League. Something most of us would crave for, and Carlo is the man to do it, and getting the right players in the upcoming transfer windows, I'm sure he will bring this club success.

After the career Ancelotti has had, he obviously still has a love and passion for the game; otherwise, he wouldn't be here.

He may well be past his best but Moshiri has hired him on his past reputation after gambling on Koeman's and Silva's potential! Who would you have chosen instead?

Injuries have forced us into the current defensive formation. At the start of the season, we played good stuff and scored more than the opposition.

The worst ever performance against West Ham, that's some statement from a seasoned Evertonian. We could probably open a new thread with some of the stuff we have been made to sit through.

If he leaves us in a lot better state than when he joined, he will have done his job. Man City had a succession of managers with their new-found wealth whilst they waited for the big fish in Guardiola.

Ken 626,

I don't recall Howard Kendall Mk 1 loving us with his every bone when he left us to follow the sun in Spain with a team that had no chance of ever winning a trophy due to their Basque selection policy.

Howard Kendall Mk 1 could have done for us what Ferguson did for Man Utd but jumped ship to warmer climes. Mk 2 and Mk 3 tarnished his reputation.

I don't read every word of the comments aired, but I can't remember any alteration being announced via the site. It's probably just as well because it saves others from having to read the rubbish of my posts.

This season has been at times good but inconsistent in terms of results but not as bad as many previous up-and-down seasons.

Take the current squad and compare to the teams above us and pitch player for player. Yes, any manager of any football team must get the best out of what players he has in his squad.

So going around in circles these days on most of the TW threads, with style and manner of player and getting results.Look at Chelsea and I'd say they are in a transition and it's taking longer than they anticipated for their new players to bed in and gel.

So we played crap vs West Ham Utd, and now must bounce back. Let's see, when key players return from injury, where we go to.

Winning and winning in style is great but this squad won't be at that level for a long time, so do Everton grind out results or play fantasy football and get whacked in most games?

So some are suggesting that we will loose vs Rotherham. Yes, you can loose against any team if the mindset isn't there, but let's see what happens.

Time to galvanise and regroup, but for fuck's sake, it's the half-way point of the season, and Everton's in a better league position, year on year, but results will tell and the final league position won't lie, and our goals for and against will also tell a story.

Lyndon, editors, could we have a TW, Teams or Zoom end-of-season review call if it can be done? As I doubt the Covid-19 situation will have improved enough for a pub meeting in town, but it would add extra bite and tempo to the healthy and forthright debates.

Harry Catterick was over 50 years ago and Kendall also decades ago. Harry Catterick had nothing like the success that Carlo has had. As already said by Rob, Kendall left us for the sun and bars of Spain, he wasn't gonna win anything at Athletic Bilbao and, the 3rd time he managed Everton, it was a tarnish to his reputation, as Rob states.

Sorry Ken, but I just cannot understand the obsession with the '60s & '80s, it was generations ago, it was a different world. If Carlo is to be compared to historical managers, then sadly it ain't anyone who has managed Everton, as good as Howard's mid-'80s team was.

I thought the Leeds game could have finished 4-4 with the amount of chances created.

I thought the Newcastle game was similar to the West Ham game. Newcastle got a ridiculously soft pen and breakaway goal at the end. If both games had finished in a draw, I don't think people would have complained similar to the Sheff Utd game.

Football at the top level is decided by fine margins. Ancelotti's job is to close those margins by either trying to coach the existing players into less mistakes and being more tactically astute or buying new players.

I would understand the negativity if we had a poor start to this pandemic season but we have had the best start for 15 years.

Bielsa spotted the wide gap between our central midfield players and put Kalvin Phillips there to dictate play and spray passes.

As to you saying Harry and Howard's history means nothing, whilst I am very supportive of Carlo and desperately like all of us want him to do well for our club, as a number of posters suggest, that level of debate could equally be directed at our current manager – I for one will judge him against Harry and Howard in my hierarchy when he is a successful Everton manager.

As an aside, I also believe that the Everton team of 67-70 was decades ahead of contemporary British sides in their football style – perhaps Harry Catterick's approach to how to play the game would not be so out of date now after all.

Nothing wrong with your posts, John. As welcome as any.

I would love Philips at Goodison. I think he will be moving on for big money sooner than later.

I disagree that was the tactical masterstroke that won Leeds the game. A shot from 25 yards that went through a defenders legs and left Pickford stranded in an end-to-end game that could have finished 4-4.

Leeds play almost a man-marking game against every opposition and run themselves ragged closing down that's why they are so different to other teams. An opposition with more quality up-front will generally expose gaps and put chances away and that's why they also ship goals. Philips is their top playmaker.

Sometimes in football you have to give credit when it is due. Cavani's moment of class in the cup game is such an example.

Yes, Harry's early '60s team was very attractive on the eye with some great players, and great midfield in the late 60s. I just felt he missed a trick not prioritising the European Cup more, and sadly the demise of the team in the '70s after letting Alan Ball go to the Gunners.

Taking Blue spectacles off, certainly in my lifetime the absolute top managers in England have been Clough (with Peter Taylor), Sir Alex and (unfortunately) Bob Paisley, I did begrudgingly have some respect for that lot back then (not now!)

Well, as you say, a European Cup would have cemented that sides legacy. Harry went to his grave, I understand, believing his team had been robbed by the referee in Greece not taking action on spitting, gouging and other such.

I am of the view that, if we had won that game, we were really in with a chance but, as we know, the rest of the week went badly. Harry's health problems, some poor buying and selling and the rest is history.

I view missing out on Archie Gemmill in midfield to Brian Clough's Derby as also pivotal.

Let's see what happens when the fit players return? And don't forget how Everton totally outclassed Fulham in the first half either, just to keep your argument real mate!

It's actually quite inaccurate to say that Athletic Bilbao had of no chance of winning the league when Kendall joined them... they had in fact won both the league and a league and cup double only a few years previously.

Howard Kendall Mk 1 was and still is the pinnacle of me watching and supporting the Blues. I misunderstood your comparison. History win lose or draw is the fabric of all football clubs.

Undoubtedly the reason Howard left a very successful Everton team to go to Spain.

The most baffling when Howard left was we did not kick on, when Colin took charge of the team.

As good a Manager Kendall was, he achieved his success when Colin Harvey came on board, a bit like Peter Taylor alongside Clough.

Was it down to Colin not doing as much in training, and focusing instead of putting first team duties higher up, and in doing so, we lost a bit of Colins presence at the training field.

Colin was the obvious one to take over from Kendall, what other Managers could we have tempted to come in, to work alongside Colin, was that our big mistake, taking Colin away from what he did best, coaching and training the players by himself.

Still a mystery why Colin did not push us on.

Same as why Kendall left, still say he thought he had the Barcelona job, and possibly one of the reasons he allowed Lineker to move there.

He settled for second best, hoping he could get European football with Bilbao, in doing so, he left a much better side that would have continued to challange for further titles.

Big mistake by Howard.

Colin falls into the category of undisputed top coach, but unfortunately didn't cut it as manager. And we all desperately wanted him too.

In his defence, we were on the start of our descent into club mismanagement and lack of investment as he took over. But I just always felt he was more at home on the training ground with the players than doing the business and media side of things that come with management.

Top players had left and were replaced by people like Cottee, Mcdonald and Nevin. All decent players in the own right, but not quite top draw.

Colin Harvey is an Everton Legend, A great player and coach, but his signings didn't work out as well as he'd hoped. A manager will always stand or fall on his signings

BTW; SIXTY posts on one thread from the same poster !

It would have been so much easier to just say "Hands off my Carlo" and have done with it.

61

Back off our Carlo!

Who cares how many time an individual posts? This is a long thread and good discussion.

I guess more than ever this is such a good outlet for us all right now hence the increased number of posts as we aren't getting to discuss and debate at the match or in the pub.

Apologies if it did.

Well a disappointing weekend on the back of a disappointing performance (we are all fundamentally in agreement there) sees us 4 points off top with a game in hand!

Putting one thing to bed @Conor (as it will only bug me!). I said I support Everton not Ancelotti. Not that I support Everton therefore I support Ancelotti.

Truly bizarre season with much up for grabs.

What he didn't have were the soft skills required of management.

If you look at it, Howard was the father figure who kept the players happy, put an arm around those who needed it and yes, cracked open the bottles of wine and champagne. Created the feel good factor. Harvey was the one shouting at them on the training ground, demanding more.

A great combination and both Everton legends. To coin my previous military anaology, Kendall was the Officer; walked around making sure his directions were being carried out to plan, making sure the men were okay and the boots fit. Harvey was the Sergeant Major, who once the Officer was out of the way, let the players have both barrels if they weren't performing (his words, not mine).

I didnt know that side of him.
I met him on a few occasions at Everton do's.
A very humble man. Genuinely happy to spend time with anyone who wanted to have a chat.

As for the coaching side.
Brilliant, innovative coach.
He was our coach when I first remember ever seeing the reverse wide men. Left footer on right wing, right footer on left wing.
One of my all time greats.

The reverse wide player thing still out on the jury for me. It sometimes frustrates me when the player has to take an additional touch the get it on the preferred foot as it can give the defender the opportunity to reset. I suppose when it was new it was unpredictable, but now everyone knows it.

But I get the concept of not making it predictable and making it easy to show the attacker outside and push them wide away from danger. Also, the opportunity for the cut inside and take a shot.

It wasn't just his time as Howard's number 2 either, a great coach at youth level.

Respected by all Evertonians I would say. I get a tear in my eye every time I watch that clip on Howard's way to be honest, no matter how many times I watch it.

Is it any wonder Moshiri wants to dispense with our so-called history?

It's way overblown if yer know yer 'istory, and aren't deluded by the shite spouted for decades in and around our club by the opulently wealthy, devious, teary-eyed (on cue) scheister still occupying our boardroom.

It is interesting isn't it? When we beat Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester we are very lucky. When we lose to WHU, Leeds and Newcastle we are the worst Everton side since Mike Walker.

I give you HK2, Walter Smith's dog days, 17th in the league with TGT, successive 4-0 Derby tankings under Roberto, Koeman's second season, ALLARDYCE! and and 18th place with Marco Silva before he was sacked after getting battered 5-2 at Anfield.

I go back to 1977 and the following Ancelotti performances are the worst I've seen:

1. Home to Bournemouth last season
2. Away to Wolves last season
3. Second half at Fulham
4. Playing for pens v United in Cup
5. West Ham home
6. Losing to Liverpool's youth team in the FA cup which imo is the worst derby defeat in my lifetime.

PS the bench also contained the front 4 from their first 11

Attempting to rewrite history will not alter the fact that Liverpool were considerably understrength. Even the 4 players you mention were squad players when they are full strength.

It is generally accepted that the defeat was a huge embarrassment and at the time it felt to me like the worst derby defeat in our history and it remains that.

A 4-0 defeat under Martinez with Alcatraz in Defence doesn't come near.

Finally Everton had 4 or 5 clear chances in the first half at 0-0, and the single goal was a worldie from 20 to 25 yards out. I don't remember Liverpool creating many chances at all.

I believe we're of a similar era I was born 1971, so first recollections around 76-77. No research just very quick top of the head instinctive thinking.

Brunswick (Braunschweig). Pre-season friendly around 1977 in Germany aged 5 or 6. Battered something like 6 - 0 and hearing the German crowd chant "Everton, Everton, ha, ha, ha" repeatedly. I clearly don't know how bad it was and it was a friendly, but left an impression. My father had a lot of explaining to do with me that evening!

Everton 0 Liverpool 5, 1982. Humiliation of the grandest scale. Nothing else to say. Why is it I can only hear "Glen Kealy" in a screechy Derek Hatton voice now?

Arsenal 4 Everton 0, 1998. Sliding towards the second tier of English football demonstrating no desire or commitment. The Nyarko match.

Arsenal 7 Everton 0, 2005. What was it about them and us at the time? What did we do to offend them? I could throw in the more recent dismal showing at the Emirates when Allardyce was in charge and I was sat right behind the dugout but not giving Arsenal 3 showings.

Everton 0 - Wigan 3, FA Cup Quarter Final 2013. When the expectation was on, we bottled it again.

I could go on but will draw a line there. The 2012 second half semi final still grates and there are so many Tranmere FA Cup style performances we could draw on over the years.

Conversely, we could also list our best / favourite performances to counter this!!

"...remember the name...".

And in 2006 the only time I've had a seat in Hospitality (I was invited by a friend who won the seats) in the Dixie Dean Suite - Everton 0 Birmingahm City 0. An awful match with Everton at the wrong end of the table.

I didn't even mention the now infamous Coventry 0 - 0 in front of 13,000 fans.

As the nursery rhyme (nearly) goes... when we're good, we're very, very good – when we're bad, we're horrid.