That Sinking Feeling

Pickford and the back 4 were rarely worried. Yes, a couple of speculative efforts could have tested Pickford if they had been better but, other than that and the unnecessary foot that Townsend struck out at the attacker's face, there was no real threat to our goal.

Allan and Doucouré did okay to break up play and carry the ball forward, but it was in the final third that the team ran out of ideas.

For me, all our forward players – and I include Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin in this – lack composure. They snatch at half-chances instead of trying to find a better-placed teammate, whereas the free-scoring teams like Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, etc – they all find that one player who is better placed and results in a goal more often than not.

Yes, I get that the quality of their forwards is on a different planet to ours, but keeping calm and unselfishly finding a better-placed teammate will create better chances for us.

So, where do we go from here? Yes, I have read outpourings of doom and gloom from several TWers following the result yesterday, but the players need our support.

I agree with Benitez, I did not see anyone shirking from their tasks yesterday; if anything, they are anxious and short of confidence at the moment. They have forgotten what it feels like to score a goal and get a win.

Benitez needs to do what got him success at the beginning of the season. Give Doucouré a free role further up front, and get Gray and Townsend to put in crosses to Richarlison, who is an excellent header and is available for the derby. I would also shore up the midfield by playing Delph alongside Allan. Digne and Coleman need to step up and have a huge game on Wednesday night.

Pickford
Coleman Keane Godfrey Digne
Allan Delph
Townsend Doucouré Gray
Richarlison

Oh, and I fervently hope that Brands is busy lining up his ducks for the January transfer window. We need a strong window with at least a couple of loans and a signing. A centre-forward, a creative midfielder (Van de Beek on loan?), a right-back (Patterson from Rangers?), and we should be able to see out the relegation threat.

The standard of crossing was just pathetic and then, when we did get some crosses in with the introduction of Gray, there was nobody there to take advantage.

Allan and Doucouré are our best midfield options; however, they don't possess any creative flair. We spent around £50M to bring both of them to the club but they are limited in what they can bring to the party. They can both do a job but neither is the complete package.

Gordon, played out left, given that he is more comfortable on his right, it was all too easy to push him inside into traffic where his lack of power was apparent. He should have been switched to the right where he would have had more space.

Rondon is everything that his transfer fee suggests. Iwobi... well, how in God's name did Brands survive after signing him, did he mistake his picture for that of Saha?

For Wednesday, Mina for Keane if fit, Gray for Iwobi and Charlie for Rondon.

Whatever else is being said this morning, I am pretty sure no-one out there is saying "Everton are too good to go down."

The one positive from yesterday: Danny did not have to travel too far to watch another poor performance.

The nation must cringe when we form part of the Sky double-header.

I see where Silva is not doing too badly at Fulham, there is life after Everton Football Club. This time 2 years ago, he was on the ropes.

I admire your positivity, Ajay, and agree with your suggested line-up; however, I feel we are on a hiding to nothing on Wednesday. The very least our fans will demand is energy and competitiveness, but I think they just have too much for us, even if we play to our maximum output.

This is not an Everton side with the guts of players like Reid, Bracewell, Horne, Sharpe etc, all of whom loved the physical side of a derby game. I've no doubt it will be a high octane game, but we have very little quality to offer right now.

Things are beginning to turn, and who knows how it's going to pan out? I look back to that semi-final that we lost to Liverpool at Wembley, and think it hurt so much because we were probably a better team than them around that time, and now the distance between the two clubs is fucking massive.

Will Moshiri stay once the fans really begin to turn? Is there a contract that says Kenwright must stay on at Everton? If true, is this one of the reasons that we have begun to stop spending money?

All speculation, but I'm very worried about Everton's future right now, especially because I don't think things are going to improve anytime soon – and I don't see how it can – when we have so many incompetent people in very high places inside “our club”.

I'm convinced as soon as he is gone it will be a domino effect and one by one we will replace his mates with professional people including the coaching staff.

As for the manager, he deserves all he will get for persistent use of his favourites because he's terrified of youth. What's really shocked me is how naive or stubborn he is. We can't keep relying on there being three worse teams.

Our midfield is totally uncreative. Allan works his socks off and often makes great interceptions; however, he then has in his armoury only the square 10-yard pass. As Christopher Timmins points out, Gordon is not and never will be a left-sided player, he has no left foot and hasn't the pace to go round his full-back.

Doucoure has energy and brings it to the midfield, but rarely has the composure to pick out a man with an incisive pass.

Rondon ranks with Harland, Shackleton, Angell and Bernie Wright as one of the worst strikers Goodison has seen, but he gets scraps. It's not that he is missing sitters, but that his fare is meagre and he lacks the ability to create anything for himself.

Benitez seems averse to giving the youngsters a chance. Tosun must be appalling in training because, no matter what, Rondon gets the nod. Until Calvert-Lewin returns and we manage to sign a midfielder (Lingard?), we will continue to struggle against even the more mediocre teams.

It's all been said. Brentford were there for the taking and, penalty aside, posed little or no threat. But we hardly did either. I really don't know why the manager didn't change it, but most of us don't.

Yes, Gray gave us more spark and created a few chances. Good passes. Good crosses. But no-one there to convert and at least one would have been a tap-in that even I would have converted.

It was mentioned above, but I'd rather play wide players on their natural side. I'm not a big fan of the cutting in. I appreciate the reasoning in that it gives a more likely option of getting a shot on goal (Townsend), but I'm not sure Gordon has that. Not from what I've seen so far. I'd like to see him on the right.

I don't care who we are playing next and thereafter. These players need to respond and pick themselves out of the slump. And the manager needs to help too. One change when it was clear something else was needed in the attacking 3rd. Not good enough, Everton. Not good enough, Mr Benitez.

I've just commented on Michael's thread about the players' and fans' reaction at the end. Thinking back, one thing that also struck me was a lack of togetherness. They came over, but hardly as a united group. Definitely some social distancing going on amongst them. Worrying sign. This headline is apt, but so is an earlier one last week: this could get worse before it gets better.

Unless I'm missing something in our ex-strikers list. Shackleton (the Clown Prince) played for Newcastle and Sunderland. As for Harland, I'm scratching my head also over that one.

Anyway, we have all seen enough of Tosun and he's not much better than Rondon and that's saying something. Youth is a taboo work for this catering Kopite. Until he has no choice... when it may be too late for him.

I share all of those thoughts; we could and should have been the winners in that game but, as ever in that era, the manager bottled it – he was a very lucky man in my view to get so long in the hot seat without any pressure from higher up to do better.

We are in a desperate place right now, with a team that looks disjointed, no real leaders on or off the pitch, and very ill-equipped for a relegation dogfight in terms of character.

Factor in that none of us really know the elements in play within the hierarchy or at Finch Farm and you have virtually every element of the club operating in a dysfunctional manner, as Paul the Esk has identified time and time again.

I really do wonder on days like today how much people within the club really do care, when you look at the anguish and outpourings on this site. I spoke to my son last night who made the trip to Brentford and got an update from him and it all paints a picture of fans utterly bewildered that the club has arrived at the present position when much of it was obvious to us but seemingly not to those charged with handling affairs.

I don't know how this will pan out over the season but my alarm bells a truly doing overtime at the minute.

A raucous Goodison on Wednesday night – fans on both sides tanked up – a rampant RS team ready to give us a real good hiding – and Evertonians on the point of exploding at the ineptitude of anything blue... Wear a tin hat if you are going!

If I were Brands, Kenwright or Moshiri, I would hire bodyguards in case the RS play as they can do.

Alas, no more players like Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Bob Latchford, Gary Lineker, Romelu Lukaku... today's players of that ilk would be insulted to hear Everton want them.

What interest is there, season after season, when everyone and his dog knows full well that one of six teams will win the League Title? Of course there is the odd blip: Blackburn Rovers, Leicester City.

The future for Everton unfortunately can only be mediocre at best. The chance of breaking into the Top 6 are akin to Albania outdoing USA or Russia in the Space Race.

I posted either last year or the year before asking: Would it do Everton good to be brought to their senses by being relegated? After all, the top of the tree have all been relegated since Everton last were, with the exception of Arsenal if you include them.

I know the Wimbledon game was make-or-break but I wouldn't back this team to win a game of that stature now... In fact, the last few seasons have in a lot of ways resigned the Evertonians that, the more overpriced crap Brands overloads the team with, the trap door will have a hell of a job to stay closed.

A very worrying time; even the Russian and Chinese threats of war are insignificant to the plight Everton are in.

It was regrettably more or less the first choice midfield that failed to impose itself on the game with real authority. Pickford escapes criticism by dint of the dreadful opposition leaving him with nothing substantial to do so he did everything asked of him as well as could be expected.

Living in London means I have tickets for Palace and Chelsea. No doubt the former will fancy their chances and the latter will field an under-strength team as they stroll to 3 points. We're all just assuming this run will extend till at least Xmas. After all, we've now lost to Watford, Wolves, Brentford... It is the New Year that matters.

For me, Benitez is yesterday's man at best. His background will always count against him for too many Evertonians and his success across the park, and in Spain, was some time ago. Wrong choice from a poor field. In the absence of an alternative, there is no compelling reason to dismiss him, but that doesn't mean there is a case to keep him in post when the transfer window looms.

Not interested in all this 'trying to make a point to the owners' and 'he's showing how shit our squad is to the owners'. The fans come first, and you should concentrate on pleasing them, fuck Brands and the directors, the CEO et al.

Don't let the incompetents cloud your judgement and make it personal. That's what they want: division, so they can heap this shit onto you when they sack you. They have done it to every manager since Kenwright took over.

Us as fans now have to turn our attentions to him and the board and make it so unbearable that they quit in their droves. Starting Wednesday, a full-on assault of barracking aimed at the posh seats in the Main Stand.

Forget the game, that's lost anyway and won't affect where Everton finish, but getting rid of the majority in the posh seats and instating a real, savvy, current thinking selection of a modern board will give Everton a chance to be run professionally and ruthlessly.

One last thing: How can our CEO clearly have such zero interest and knowledge of football, yet never be bought to book for presiding over such a shit show on the pitch?

She's the CEO and is completely culpable when it goes wrong – that's the job remit of a CEO: receive the plaudits when it's good and get pelters when it's bad.

But of course, how silly of me, this is Kenwright FC.

Forwards need service, our forwards only get service from the full-backs or Gray, even Townsend looks lost at the moment. So though, without Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, we have an inadequate pair of strikers, I suggest that even the best of strikers need some creativity in the midfielders that supply them.

Everton's midfield is set up to defend, not to support the attack. Benitez, when at Anfield, loved Hammann who epitomises the destructive midfielder. Creative players are luxury players in the Benitez mindset.

Blame Rondon and Iwobi as most do on here, but Royle, Latchford, Sharp, Gray, Lineker, Ferguson et alia would have had problems getting 10 goals a season with this lot in midfield.

I was reading a preview from Baz Rathbone's new book that rings very true. He said that, when Moshiri came, we stopped doing what we had been doing so well and instead threw ridiculous money at players who were no better than the ones we were replacing. This is merely the culmination of it.

Digne isn't fit to lace Baines's boots, Coleman's still here, Keane and Godfrey aren't a patch on Jagielka and Distin.

Either Barry and McCarthy or any of Neville, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman or Carsley dovetail better than Allan and Doucouré.

Pienaar was head and shoulders above any wide midfielders, with the possible exception of Richarlison, that we've had since.

The only improvement has been Calvert-Lewin, who would have shone in Moyes teams (although whether he's better than Lukaku is debatable), and possibly Pickford compared to Howard.

We've had terrible recruitment for a long time, yet Brands seems to get off Scot-free from many people.

Now we have players who are simply not good enough, a squad that is embarrassingly thin, an astronomical wage bill that is completely unjustified, and a stubborn, ex-red manager who continues to look like a dinosaur.

We've got rid of the one player who can break teams like Brentford down, signed a striker with zero anticipation, are starting to lose promising youngsters who might put a bit of effort in, and seem to have little in the way of a game plan beyond “Let's play 4-2-3-1 and hope for a result”.

Onwards and upwards!!!!

Getting rid of the Board and internal management is a small town outside wishful thinking. Look at the reaction to Rafa getting rid of Head of Medical Services.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the former head of Medical Services will return after Benitez is gone.

Everton will not be relegated. Everton do have capability, it is just currently in the wrong hands.

First up, every travelling fan deserves a medal (cost of tickets refunded perhaps?) from those spineless cowards masquerading as Everton players.

There are a small number of players who clearly care about the club, the rest are basically wage thieves. Thousands of pounds a week to live our dream and they just don't give a fuck.

Our board and governance is an utter disaster, as continually highlighted by Paul the Esk.

Our Director of Football... Fuck's sake! If there was any shred of accountability, personal pride, responsibility, he would have resigned for the signing of Iwobi.

Our manager. Again, fuck's sake. We're 1-0 down and no forward substitutions. Rondon plays the whole game and we have three forwards on the bench. Any goodwill, such as it was, for our manager is quickly disappearing. Substitutions and tactics, or the lack of them, will be what does for Rafa, not his RS background.

Bit of a rant, apologies, just needed to get that out my system.

Fingers crossed for Wednesday, hoping for the best, fearing the worst.

Since finishing 10th, we've lost Rodriguez (15 goal contributions) and Sigurdsson (18 goal contributions) and spent £1.7M.

Losing Mina, Doucouré, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin all at once obviously hurts. We'll be better once they are back.But we need to pick up a couple of players in January, that is obvious.

I think it's clear there'll be no spending spree but there is probably enough slack for the likes of Maitland-Niles and one or two others (perhaps on loan or nominal fee as they approach the end of a contract).

Ben needs a wise experienced head next to him. Sadly, Michael Keane, who's approaching 29, should be that player, but he isn't. I don't want to bash Michael Keane as I'll get told off again. It's why I for a long time now have prioritised a true footballing centre-back who is a leader. Not a fairly decent defender who is as vocal as a mouse.

Rick; I'd also disagree with you on the midfield. Those two can leave gaps, which can either be solved with a deeper-sitting 3rd midfielder or a higher-sitting defence that drives the team up the pitch.

But in my opinion, the problem (evident yesterday) is the forward options. Allan in particular has shown this season and last season that he looks for the forward pass. Both goals at Brighton for example. I can quote others.

I watched closely yesterday and you could see the frustration. They looked up. Nothing. So, in the interests of keeping possession, they are forced into the 10-yard sideways or backwards pass. If there are no runners ahead of you, what do you do? Punt it aimlessly back to the opposition for the sake of being seen to go forward? Very Graham Taylor.

It's not through intent. It's through lack of options. And Allan in particular got very frustrated with what was available in front of him yesterday. Different slant and case for the defence of the midfield!! It was our attacking 3rd that had literally nothing. But we had 3 attacking options on the bench to change that.

I don't know if you saw last night, but my dog and bone is cream crackered and looks like I will need to get a new one, so haven't been able to get involved in our WhatsApp chat group. Give my regards to everyone on there and hopefully I can get involved again when I get a new dog!

Prediction for Wednesday?

Rob, I recommend a Ridgeback. My boy was very sympathetic this morning. I would say bordering on worried and concerned for me! He even didn't chase a squirrel to stay close.

That said, if your new dog is your phone, I hope you're back up and running soon. And hopefully meet up again soon.

Definitely my phone, Danny.

My fingers are burning with frustration. I've never felt so low as a fan, especially surrounded by a family of Reds who just don't get it.

Everton's motto should have been changed to 'The Going Nowhere Club' years ago.

Would us fans accept that, inside the club, board and staff are happy to tread water just staying at the Premier League party? That there is no real desire to improve and progress? That there is an almost contempt towards the fan base?

Are our finances that stretched, we just can't afford to be in this league anymore? We are holding on, clinging desperately and I feel that relegation is a serious threat this season. A mate of mine has already accepted it.

We can't do the basics. Pass to each other. Shoot. Defend. We get scrappy goals. Players with egos that think they are better than they are and can't wait to get off the pitch to play Call of Duty with their pals.

I am going on Wednesday. I am a season ticket holder. It'll be embarrassing. 6, 7, 8... I will sit there in the stand, knowing I am, we are, as fans, powerless to do anything. The only thing uniting us now is the misery. But that's what it is and I wouldn't change it.

Can anyone tell me more about Baz Rathbone's book which Kevin Prytherch mentioned @18? Thanks.

Interesting point on Allan, Danny, and this is the reason why most grounds are full, because being inside the stadium definitely gives out the biggest picture, even if it was clear on TV that the only really determined runner in Everton's team yesterday was the man playing alongside Allan and who was also returning from injury but still put the rest to shame in this department. (Maybe I'm being harsh on Townsend?)

Clive @26, people say he has no influence, but how can this be the case when Finch Farm is full of ex-players? Maybe having separate training facilities, rather than everyone being under the one roof, might be the best way to take away such influences that must naturally exist?

Might I add a different perspective to this always interesting forum? It wasn't a great game by any means, and in terms of football quality, it was Brentford's worst performance of the season by a street. However, I think Thomas Frank deliberately went for a more physical approach. Against Liverpool, Chelsea, Brighton and Leicester, The Bees played a very open attacking game, won lots of praise from the media, but only gained 1 point. Against Everton, it was much more pragmatic and I think Frank had Everton worked out. Backs to the wall at times but defended stoutly and got the result. Not pretty but it will do in the short term.

As for Everton, I think many years of terrible mismanagement are now beginning to hurt them. What has gone wrong has been discussed many times on this forum and I can add little new. However, I thought the players yesterday were trying but the team did not really have enough quality.

What would be the point of sacking the manager... who would be an improvement? Short-termism has bedevilled Everton for too long. Any manager at Everton needs 2 or 3 years to sort it out.

Anyway, good luck for the rest of the season. I am sure that, once the main players are back, you will soon start climbing the table.

Like you say the gap with Liverpool now on and off the pitch is the biggest it's been in my lifetime. We will never compete with them again, we will never win the league again. Kenwrights reign has been shocking even looking at him makes me want explode, and yet others still clap him. I'm taking more of an interest in lower league football now, as Everton are a nothing in the world of what is now a grotesque global game.

Apologies to be so negative, but Everton under Bill's reign are Nott County when Forrest were winning back to back European Cups.

It's called "The Smell of Football 2".

I read about it on the Echo site. There's an interesting bit about Ferguson at the bottom as well:

Everton man sacked by David Moyes, blanked Marouane Fellaini and sent Duncan Ferguson warning before being re-hired under Farhad Moshiri

Sinking but not yet sunk, it's been a titanic struggle with injuries and inadequate quality of back-up to our first eleven. Benitez hasn't helped himself with the substitute decisions like yesterday's and selection of players who are maybe trying but have no heart and some sadly just not good enough.

It's coming into focus more and more how the historic, shambolic transfer strategy is killing us. Ever since Lukaku was sold we have been relying on Calvert-Lewin to score the goals from boyhood to present. When he is out, the team is inert and toothless.

Richarlison is a player I love because, as well as his offensive quality, he brings strength and tenacity to the midfield. A brilliant player to have attacking from wide positions. He is wasted when used centrally; when he is, we suffer as we really miss him on the left.

We made a scrambled attempt at rectifying the goalscorer situation, buying Tosun for £27M. He's still at the club 3 years later, having contributed nothing. I'm not blaming Cenk here – he's tried, it's our shocking decision-makers. It has damaged the club.

A massive priority is investing in a player who can score goals in the Premier League. Someone who as well as back-up can share duties with Calvert-Lewin, when fit, and also challenge for supremacy. It's never easy finding such a player but, if our team hasn't got a goalscorer, it doesn't matter how many crosses Gray or Richarlison fire in to the middle, no-one will be there to ram them home.

Yes, there are other positions to be filled but, without the team having a goalscorer to provide for, we are going to struggle. We can't put all our eggs in the Calvert-Lewin basket, he could easily break down or get a reoccurrence or different injury.

This is no time to gamble for that position; Rondon and Tosun have to go and we need better. Much better. What's the club motto? For a goalscorer, at least, we can't ignore it and continue as we are.

In a nutshell, I think a team can get away with good journeyman back-up in some positions. But when it comes to the live or die business of scoring goals, substandard, slow, journeymen attackers do not cut the mustard.

I am furious with the club's ineptitude. I can fully understand the pent-up anger being vented by our incredible away support. For me, the frustration goes far deeper than the manager – without any doubt, the whole club needs to take responsibility.

For one, how Kenwright is still at the club is beyond all comprehension. And the DoF has to start producing the goods. Marcel Brands, wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.

1962-63 was Everton's Championship-winning season and they got beat by Fulham, 1-0 at Fulham, they clinched the title by beating Fulham 4-1 on the last day of that season.

They did beat Fulham 3-2 but it was earlier than the season you mention because I think it might have been Billy Bingham's debut game for the Blues and, although he was still at Everton in 1963, he had lost his place to Alex Scott.

I think there was a very sensible point in that post by John H, the Brentford fan, but when anger rises to the surface, people usually want change, especially when the appointment of Benitez was so divisive to begin with.

I want change myself, but in a different place, and personally think that, with regards to that massive Evertonian, Marcel Brands, Tony, the coffee would smell much nicer if he went back home to Holland.

Thanks for taking the time to write on this site, ordinarily I would be offering my unconditional best wishes to your team in the future, but as your team is likely to be in direct conflict with Everton in the coming months, I have to caveat that sentiment with 'I hope that Everton does better'.

If the three teams exiting the Premier League at the end of this season don't include either Brentford or Everton, we will all be happy.

The reserved, pragmatic approach may have taken our manager by surprise but for him to offer nothing by the way of alteration to his own tactics and personnel during the game was a reflection of a manager who still equates football management to playing chess. Changing tactics and taking a few risks are simply not in his toolkit.

You ask what would be the point of our changing manager. I think you'd find positive answers should you pose that same question to Villa and Norwich fans.

John (Brentford), genuine thanks for your post and welcome to the Evertonian fold. Having based the family in Uxbridge since 2004 and coached the youth set up at Hayes (latterly Hayes & Yeading), I watched Brentford grow from grass roots up. Genuinely pleased to see how they have progressed and made it to the top flight of English football with an impressive (albeit oddly shaped) new stadium!! On a serious note, they had a long term business plan and implemented it. Take note Everton.

@ Joe McMahon. The semi final throwing of the towel against you now who. Wigan, Tranmere & Oldham. And never forgetting the Ian Rush Goodison Derby that still gives me flashbacks.

I could say they don't deserve me. But I would never ever change it for the world.

I started thinking back to the summer of 2001, when we then sold our key assets – Ball and Jeffers. We were pretty awful to watch, mid-table dross but I always believed we could get back up there – with the right manager.

Here we are, 20 years later -– minus the illusions that the structure of the club is sound. Because of the way the football landscape changed though in the following years, getting back up there became impossible.

I still think Moyes is the best manager we have had since Kendall (a discussion for another time perhaps). Although there are certain defeats under Moyes that baffled me, he did give the fans something we don't have in our team now: pride.

One quality player missing (and much maligned) is Andre Gomes. I would like to see Rafa use Allan and Delph holding and push Gomes (when fit) and Doucouré further forward to give us quality and energy where it is really needed. What has happened to Digne? He is dreadful at the moment.

On another point, why do we have such a crap academy? Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City are producing high quality players through their academies. In contrast, Everton's academy appears to be a feeder system for clubs like Oldham and Rochdale.

I don't want a manager who makes decisions based on what he thinks will keep the crowd happy. But I do believe there are times that a manager has got to try and keep supporters "onside".

I'd have liked to have seen Simms and Dobbin come on as subs anytime between 60 and 75 minutes. Not only would they have injected some zest, pace and freshness, but they would also have got the supporters behind the team even more.

If, afterwards, it was thought this hadn't worked, then at least the manager would not be getting so much stick. And the players probably wouldn't have got so much stick at the final whistle if the fans had seen young lads giving it their best.

I can only think that Rafa thought Rondon was getting his eye in, as I thought he had more attempts at goal than in any game for us yet. I live in hope he'll hit the net on Wednesday night.

How I'd love to see an Everton goal. It's been a whole month!

Mike@44, I'd genuinely love to know what keeps you a supporter of Benitez?

Never was that more evident than yesterday.

The other shower have goals thoughout the side, as do Man Utd, which is why they get results even when playing badly.

With FFP, we are basically fucked even if we bring a couple of loans in in January.

Benitez is not responsible for this dreadful recruiting and has also been hit with a high degree of bad luck with injuries, suspensions and court cases compounding a poor squad to begin with and who would have anticipated Ben Godfrey's form falling off so badly?

Having said that, good managers find ways to win and he has made some poor decisions in the constant selection and support of Rondon and Iwobi in particular.

I am dreading the derby but blind optimism prevails in that desperate times call for desperate measures and let's hope we can get a couple of theirs sent off.

Let's face it, Benitez is none of the above. When Benitez was employed, it was my prediction that we would be in the relegation zone by Christmas. I am normally, what many on here would describe as one of the 'happy clappy' brigade. Alas not this time.

For the first time in my life long support of my club, I walked out before a game had finished and have absolutely no hope left. While the players are in no way blameless, when you see players deteriorating in front of your eyes, it has taken away the perpetual optimism, which has kept me sane as Blues fan.

Many comments on here are valid, but if Benitez stays, we will be a Championship club next season. He possesses none of the attributes to improve this squad.

Digne seems to have lost a yard of pace in the last couple of seasons and I fear if ever he is left on the edge of the box in a one-on-one against Salah. Same on the other flank, Coleman against Mane; age catches up with everybody and Seamus just doesn't have the pace he once had.

They play a very narrow front 3, which allows them to give Arnold or Robertson acres of space wide to play balls into the box.

I think Benitez should have 3 midfield players in Delph with Doucouré and Allan either side of him, to compete with their 3 in midfield. This would also allow Doucouré to get forward in support of the forwards without leaving us short if the move breaks down.

Obviously we will have Richarlison back from suspension and hopefully Gray can play from the start. Whoever Benitez picks to make up the front 3 alongside Gray and Richarlison, I hope he plays a narrow 3 like Liverpool and that way we will hopefully be able to see some link up with our forwards. I am not sure if Benitez will play Richarlison up top but, if he does, he has to get players close to him to help him create something.

For us to get anything from this game, we will need every player to play at the top of their game; even if they do, that might still not be enough. But if we sit back and get beat heavily, then I wouldn't want to be in the dugout or in the Directors Box with 10 minutes to go.

Until the club structure changes and the recruitment improves, we'll always be fighting fires. There'll always be some calling for the manager's head, Kenwright out, Brands out etc.

We need a clear out from the top down, and then we need to back a manager for at least 3 years to build a team and squad who will be proud to wear the shirt.

My sound bite from last year to the anti-Ancelotti gang. We need better players.

The manager is almost irrelevant. We need better players.

I've asked the hyenas several times on other threads who would take over, no one has come up with a viable alternative... yet.

I made the point after Ancelotti left that the issue is not who manages us but how we build a better squad.

If we just want someone to manage a crap squad, then Dyche is the man. Or, let's be honest, Allardyce.

January should bring some reinforcements on the cheap.

Summer could represent an overhaul with ending contracts and likely sales – Kean, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Mina.

But the next step will be Dyche or Allardyce if we get either of the next two windows wrong...

Slaven Bilic for me.

However we have to stick with it. It would cost us too much to sack him and we need that money for players. It's also simply not fair to sack him, the team has had too many injuries to key players.

The fans are out to hound him out as they have done many times before. Recruitment has to improve. Brands not done enough, or the guy before him. It all started going wrong from Koeman and Walsh but it's continued downhill since.

I never liked or wanted Benitez but here we are. We all knew it would be a tricky season.

1. They are remarkably long-living.
2. They have a history of conquering.
3. They're tremendously socially complex.
4. They are vocal.
5. They are amazingly intelligent.
6. They can count.

Not for the first time in the past 20 years, I'm dreading Wednesday. The trouble is, if we somehow perform a miracle greater than the raising of Lazarus and get a result, it will act as a 'Get Out of Goal Free' card and the drift of crappiness will continue.

I can't even say I'm fed up to the back teeth of the people running our club as my back teeth are long gone...

As several posters point out, no matter who is in charge, the results are the same, but playing staff has been slashed under Benitez to cut the wage bill, leaving the club with a team of 13 or so. Lose one or two and you can plug a gap; lose 5 or 6 and you're done for.

The gamble of slashing the squad whilst having a lack of quality was an absurd one. The total and abject lack of creativity of this team is appalling – and whilst we remember the stupidity of having bought five No 10s – we now are without a single one!

Remember everyone lambasting the likes of James? Or before him, Barkley, Rooney, the unmentionable one, take your pick... Whilst they all had limitations, is anyone really trying to say that, Gordon, Townsend, Rondon, Iwobi, are better? No matter who plays up front, you need someone to control a game, to open a side up and create chances and assists.

To play on the break can be effective when you sit back but, against teams who play deep, it never works and you need that skill in midfield.

Benitez has a limited set of options but his negative playing style can only work if the defence is good enough; it never has been for a number of seasons. The playing squad is not good enough nor deep enough to play the style the manager wants. He has been buying time but has to change his ideas.

As for Wednesday night, will he set up like he did against Man City? The RS could play their academy kids again and still take us to the cleaners! The team has to press higher, in their faces and not give an inch. Otherwise...

If we don't win, none of you get paid, and, depending on the goal difference, the bigger the fine.

I suspect we may improve dramatically. If they don't like it, sack them and play the ballboys.

You are correct in your assessment of hyenas. They are also very adept at wearing down their prey with a pack mentality and ripping it apart limb from limb whilst still alive.

Previous managers who have bought poor-quality players have ruined any chance of Everton rising like a phoenix from the ashes and winning trophies and challenging for Europe.

Shame on recent past managers.

I think talk of sacking him is silly and premature – the number of injuries we've suffered has almost been comical, and we can't ride the managerial merry-go-round forever... but the dude needs to seriously up his game here.

I just wish Everton could give me the same type of aggressive entertainment, and pray that, through all our troubles, we forget about our current problems, and turn Goodison into the lions den, for those slippery bastard hyenas from across the park on Wednesday night. 🙏🤞

You've quoted the match report from most of the last 20 years of games v Liverpool.

I read one bright spark triumphantly arguing that sacking the manager was far cheaper than going down – as though that action alone guarantees survival. The words don't exist...

The problem with previous managers was the absence of a plan at all. Right now we have a mix of other manager's selections. That has to be rectified. It will take all of Benitez's 3 years to get a team he builds together.

So, the way forward means there has to be stability in order for him to build a team. Right now, he has to select players in transfer windows to stop the rot, stop conceding goals. So he rebuilds the defence first and defensive midfield first. Starting immediately.

This will take the January and summer windows. In summer, he also has to find a creative midfielder. Next season, he will lose Richarlison; I doubt he will be replaced. Only then can he build on a solid defence.

The current back four goes. Richarlison monies should buy a No 10, Year 2 focus becomes attack-focused. Townsend is replaced, Gordon too. Rondon, Tosun should be gone, replaced with Simms or a quality striker, foil to Calvert-Lewin.

Benitez has to build his own team. If he goes, no matter who comes in, they have to build their own team and get rid of the multiple misfits.

There is a big chance for underachieving, timid, second rate cowards to be heroes. Look for the ball, don't hide, run and run and get stuck into them.

No smiles, laughs in the tunnel, all mates. Fucking hate them, blame THEM, for the fact that you are held in contempt by Blues.

Step up, be angry, beat them whatever it takes.

Kick the hell out of them, Blues. Cmon!!!

I was too young to appreciate the immense wealth and commitment of John Moores to us, but thoroughly enjoyed the football we played in the 1960s. John Moores was our most successful owner and chairman. He was chairman for just seven years though.

Contrast him with the current incumbent, who's been in the boardroom for 31 years, at its top (but only allegedly, given his various shady – putting it mildly – financial "associates") for nearly all of them, and still "serving" as chairman, according to the Monaco Muppet in, quote, "an enhanced role!"

As we as a club sink ever lower, we can all rejoice in Kenwright personally banking £10s of millions from the MM (or whoever controls him) can't we?

Yeah right.

I think we're in real jeopardy of relegation this season. I think more than a few players at Finch Farm agree, their performances spelling it out. I think various agents will be hyperactive on behalf of their clients in seeking a fruitful future for them, and themselves.

I think no manager on the planet can turn Everton around with the current owner and boardroom, not to mention (as I will now do!) the shambolic "coaching" regime long embedded, by Kenwright, in Finch Farm.

And lastly (as a relief to some!) I think if Moshiri engages the services of such inept staff for construction of the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as he has in his years at Goodison, we can be confident that, before 10 years have passed, we'll all be getting ferries to the ground as it floats off into the Irish Sea.

That's what happens when you pay no attention to the foundations, Moshiri!

Get real!

The one factor all of these managers have had, including Benitez, is the first-team training headed up by Duncan Ferguson and the U23s headed up by David Unsworth – it all appears to be out-of-date and stale compared to other Premier League clubs.

We can deny this all we want but this issue, together with the youth recruitment system, seems to be behind the times.

There is now talk of Benitez being sacked! It doesn't surprise any of us because we have become a joke of a club; how much have we paid out in severance packages for these managers to date!

Taking into consideration our lack of money, an average to poor training and youth development program, players who are nowhere near the Everton standard or even arsed to play – who is the next best manager option?

IMO: Wayne Rooney.

If Wayne manages to keep Derby up after the 21-point deduction, it will be a big achievement in such a competitive league. Probably a bigger achievement than Lampard's not getting Derby promoted with Mount, Tomori and others in the side. Possibly bigger than Gerrard's Rangers title win.

He'd have to be taken very seriously at that point.

I think our big worry will be Jiota on Wednesday night. The lad is so clever in his timing of his runs and hard to predict. With maximun concentration and huge effort, we could stay in the game but, without any goal threat, our hopes are slender.

We simply can't buy a goal and all I can do is hope that Richarlison or Townsend can pull something out of the bag.

On Rafa's future, I know most of us think the big problem is in the boardroom, but listening to TalkSport last night, where they had lots of Evertonians ringing-up, the consensus was to sack him. And the pundits asked the question of what other club would not sack a manager after such a barren run?

Moshiri is as daft as a brush, it was always clear that Rafa was going to get stick once things went downhill. Nuno would have been cut more slack.

Getting the manager and his staff out solves the problem of change they don't like.

Also, maybe other people of mediocrity behind the scenes would be delighted too to get shut of Benitez, before he sacks them in June.

Before we rush into sacking anybody, we should be asking the wider question: Just who at the club needs sacking?

Plan B - if they are thrashing us end up with 6 fit players on the pitch and the game will be called off or use Citys excuse from last season - Covid outbreak discovered at last minute and not enough players fit enough to play.

If I was a betting man I'd wager a few quid on Richy to get sent off tomorrow.

I totally agree with your comments.

Only difference is that I think Anthony Gordon can be a different player if he can build his confidence. Something which is very difficult in this current team.