Everton cannot cope with aggressive Newcastle pressing game

LOTS of quality on the bench.

Would have been harsh on any of the rest to drop them after Saturday's performance and if things are not going our way we can change things. Not in years have we had a bench with so many options.

We need a big performance from Coleman. He is a tad lucky not to be replaced by Patterson but not the night to put the young Scot his debut against St Maximin.

Looking forward to the game.

Come on Everton, its a long journey home and the voy dog only knows a 5:30am wake up call.

3-4-3 I think looking at that team

Pickford
Holgate Keane Mina
Coleman Allan Gomes Townsend
Gray Richarlison Gordon

COY BLUEBOYS !

Time to banish the spectre of relegation.

All our players need to be up for this.

We need to make sure we don't give away stupid set pieces.

I would have liked to have seen Van de Beek or Alli start but I understand why Lampard's kept Gomes in the side. He was my Man of the Match against Brentford.

So I don't think they "deserve" anything on the basis of Saturday. Frankly, they don't even deserve to be paid a wage anymore on the balance of their careers to date and money already pocketed. But, maybe Frank has the Midas touch and can end that tradition. Hopefully so. COYB.

Here we go!

At one time of day, Mike, that would've been called ludicrous conspiracy. Nowadays, I'd go with probably conspiracy.

They'll be wishing they played us at Christmas instead.

Not good enough.

Gomes as expected targeted and pressurised. Being forced deep, making it risky to pass to him. As usual fouling in dangerous areas.

He's such a bullshitter it's hard to believe him.

Pretty even-Stevens game, taking everything into consideration.

Where we are hamstrung now are the two injuries and forced substitutions which leaves Frank with no wriggle room to make tactical subs in the 2nd half.

For sure, we can't now see both Dom and Donny enter the fray. It was lucky it wasn't three injury subs with the disgusting Shelvey challenge on Gordon. Did VAR even check that for a red card?

Anthony more and more looking like a proper Premier League player. Lovely delivery on the free-kick, a la the Chelsea game by him for our goal. A softly given up goal from a corner (again!) too soon after.

I'm already wondering if we will finish the game with 11 men. Not from dismissals, but from injuries.

Gorra dig deep in the next 45+ minutes.

Coleman -- not past it
Mina -- not glass
Gomes -- has quality
Keane -- not a liability

and one poster defends Holgate and Davies without providing a reason.

But the reality is that, whether due to age, injury proneness or just being useless, all of these players are essentially useless in addition to the widely accepted uselessness of Rondon, Gbamin and Tosun. Branthwaite was poor tonight but probably had a concussion as he was punched in the face by his own goalie. He is still an unknown and has some potential.

Should have pulled the trigger ahead of the full transfer window.

Frank has a hard job and he is seeing the full problem laid out in front of him tonight.

But, it's the same thing again. Weak central defence that crumbles under any and every type of pressure, and a midfield two that gets overrun.

The only positive from this game is, nobody can complain when they're dropped for the next game.

A manager who is trying to get non footballing defenders to play out frome the back.

We have witnessed this several times before. It ends in relegation.

It's not about being calm, or being brave or being confident. It's about playing to your strengths not against them.

Come on Duncan have a word!

This is worse than the 90's. Still, a win on Saturday and the outlook will be decidedly brighter.

Just think back to the 80th min at home to Watford. 2-1 up and all going to plan. What on earth has happened since?

It is going to be one hell of a struggle till the end of the season.

We are still ahead on points at the bottom but that was a shocking effort and we looked wide open. I'm not sure what game Frank was looking to play. As usual, we were outmuscled and outrun.

Hard to find anything good at all to say. We must reset, I suppose.

Starting with Richarlison up on his own against 3 defenders put us on the back foot.

Usual suspects impossible to improve their game. Allan is willing but just not able at this level even against a poor side. Same for most of the rest of them.

Now Frank can come down to earth and realise how bad some of these players are. Until then, we will need a miracle plus the Goodison crowd as an extra man to stay up. Then Frank can do what the other managers didn't and get rid of the dross asap.

That was incredibly poor tonight though. Not just the players, in my opinion. Why didn't Lampard replace Gray with Calvert-Lewin and put Richarlison in Gray's position? Surely that was the logical move, rather than bringing on Dele Alli who mostly just drifted around like he was on a fag break, until deciding in the last 5 minutes to start kicking people and running around in circles with the ball?

All the positives from the Brentford game gone in 90 minutes. Fucking Everton.

The only thing worse than Everton sometimes is the absolute weapons in the live forum, embarrassing set of individuals, the vast majority.

Familiar sound of us Evertonians crashing back down to earth.

Roll on Saturday
UTFT

We have to play Van de Beek on Saturday as he gives the ball to a blue shirt – unlike the rest.

No fight, no bottle, no skill or endeavour, gave up at 1-1.

Relegation performance that.

You don't go through so many managers for nothing, but the lack of heart, fight, movement, desire and ability to compose, was truly horrendous.

It was such a disjointed performance, and any manager coming in would be absolutely shocked to witness how poor we are when put under pressure. I'm also convinced that Yerry Mina threw his hand in tonight, but I suppose I should wait to see what the scan shows before I say things like that.

Pickford is back to being a spazz and the rest handled the ball like it was a grenade. At times it looked like first-timers controlling, passing the ball… that was a tough watch.

Only player who looked up for it was Gordon; the rest were shit, Allan was worse... Newcastle won the spine, their back line was way better, their midfield 2 out-played, out-dirtied ours. Big job ahead, Lampard... good luck with this lot.

Never have we been in more danger of relegation, especially with the current crop of injuries.

Pickford has to go, he never does anything unexpected unless it's bad.

Our only chance is the home crowd and the Leeds game is now make or break.

Well...actually I have plenty but I just can't be arsed.

Have coaches lob balls into the 6-yard box and get them attacking balls. Something, anything, that knocks the harum scarum calamities out of them.

And, for the love of god, put 3 in midfield.

We will have to play a 4-3-3 I suppose, with Mykolenko on the left if he doesn't have Covid, and Coleman or Kenny on the right. Donny van de Beek and two others in midfield, Richarlison and Gordon either side of Calvert-Lewin.

None of the goals made for pretty watching tonight. Newcastle, I have to say, showing the necessary nark and snarl needed for the position they and Everton find themselves in.

Keep that up and they can stay up.

For us, I'm going to take solace in Frank Lampard's words in his presser yesterday. There is plenty of time and games to turn it around.

But one win in 15 now...one point from 18 in the last six games...four consecutive losses. This defeat cranks up the pressure of the home game to Leeds.

We have to start getting points on the board. Even a draw would be good right now.

Taking some positives. Donny van de Beek looks class. A proper footballer. Anthony Gordon in particular paired up with him nicely. Dele Alli, less so. Virtually anonymous all game, apart from coughing up cheap possession in the move that led to their second goal.

We were well beaten in the end, but I have to say I believe more in the football we attempted to play rather than the passive surrender Benitez had us playing all season.

Frank Lampard, I believe, will hold his nerve.

Will the players, and we the fans?

Allan was putrid, did he do anything right? There were a few competing with him to be the worst player, with Coleman, Keane, Holgate and Richarlison in the running.

Mina might have equalled Allan but fortunately went off early claiming to be injured, might have been losing some putty which holds him together.

Gordon and Branthwaite tried and the two new lads escape criticism at the moment having only just joined this really very weak and mostly timid squad. With Iwobi and the lad from Villa having little aggression, they could be called “Dads Army” except there is nothing remotely funny about them.

I suffered tonight watching that pathetic, putrid performance but that's nothing to the thousands of Everton fans who went to St James's Park and face a long sad, painful journey home.

I prefer the optimistic version and we are nowhere near the predicament we found ourselves in the '90s – yet.

Over to you, Frankie.

At least Frank now knows what he's truly inherited.

Donny van de Beek played well, I'll look forward to seeing more of him in a Blue shirt.

An aging right wing back being attacked by possibly the fastest left winger in the league and a right winger as a left wing back on the opposite side.

Then we were chasing the game with 3 centre backs to the last.

Frank has failed his first real test.

Anthony Gordon was really the only player showing some fight. Van de Beek showed a few good touches, but he needs to be in a team with confidence, and his fighting skills remain to be proven.

The Skunks won, led by Saint-Maximin, with some rank referee decisions, but aided by piss poor Everton passing, inviting the press by passing back, and sideways too often.

Also piss-poor closing down, and crap game management.

Gomes, in my view is what he is and wouldn't be allowed in Vets League Football. He's a fraud and he is miles too slow for the over 65s.

One decent game every 4 years doesn't cut.

But it's down to the bare bones of the squad, and how we set up for Leeds, looks like a big challenge, bearing that Mina will probably be missing.

Leeds always look superior in fitness against most teams, and will take Everton to the brink, but more than ever, Everton need to galvanise and stick together and play like a team. Does this squad have it? If they believe they can, but why do they shrink and become faceless and emotionless in so many games this season?

Get the spirit, fight and learn the shit tricks as, to stay up, these attributes will be needed for the Battle for Everton's season.

Frank will see the reality but also how do so many players at Everton go off early with hamstring pulls and tears?

Suggests they don't even warm up properly. Then that's down to the coaching staff...

C'est la vie… but now for some character against Leeds.

Donny was tidy as a positive but there's not enough know-how in the middle so hopefully he'll bring that. This needs sorting before the last day because I don't fancy Arsenal away at all with this lot.

Mina was a (2) and Gray (7) going off changed everything. Van de Beek (7) just for not being a car crash.

Lampard (6) - did the right thing keeping a winning team, but Alli over a backup left-back/DCM looks poor after 90 whole minutes.

Overall – absolutely grim, but we have to take account of the Saint-Maximin + £100m + 50k Geordies under the lights. Need to judge after 5-6 games, not throw in the towel… but we are in a fight for lives.

Next time: Branthwaite's bravery was enforced, but we really need Coleman's bravery for Patterson or Kenny. He's not gonna play Saint-Maximin every week, but he got as skinned as he did in the derby. Needs to go back to 4 at back until we get Godfrey and Mina back.

Pickford
Patterson Keane Holgate FuckingDontKnow
Allan DontKnow
Gordon Van de Beek Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin

Howard help us….

We need to win 6 games to stay up. I can't see us winning another game whilst we keep playing the same formation and usual suspects.

Holgate and Gomes showed their true form tonight. Both shouldn't play unless we have injuries. Like Tony, I thought Mina threw the towel in.

Get Calvert-Lewin back in the team and get the ball up to him quickly. They can't play through the midfield so why try it?

Only Gordon comes out of tonight's game with any credit.

The 2 in the midfield are probably the slowest in the league. Holgate's decision-making is pathetic. We don't have wingbacks so don't play the system.

Joke, the lot of them.

We have gone through that many managers, we have become a laughing stock, thanks for making me smile, honestly.

I'd honestly play Brantwaite every single game, so let's hear what Frank says now. He looked absolutely shellshocked, and has probably already asked Duncan Ferguson why he wanted the job!

But he's already learned a bit about his players, which is the only good thing that's going to come out of tonight.

The master plan involving failures from Spurs and Man Utd arriving with a few cockneys coaching doesn't seem quite so masterful in the white heat of real battle.

Ah well, fuck them all – life is too short.

I'd like to see a 4-3-3, Take your pick of centre-backs – I haven't a clue which is the best combination!

Pickford
Patterson Keane Mina Mykolenko
Allan Van de Beek Gomes
Gordon Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

A back 5 with a weak midfield was never going to work away to Newcastle. Never in a million years. It was asking for trouble.

Can we just play a back 4 and strengthen the midfield, for fuck's sake!

Nobody escapes criticism today: the players were all poor, the manager was poor, the collective effort was poor

Depressed and off to work.

If a manager makes weird choices, they are worth pointing out, whether they are 5 years or 5 days into the job.

Even if we did, we still have Pickford to do his regular fuck-ups.

Only Van de Beek tonight looked like he wanted to do anything positive. I feel sorry for Gordon. He's a good player but there's only so much weight he can bear on young shoulders.

We can't keep clean sheets for love nor money. Every corner kick or set piece we concede our nerves are jangling.

Frank's interview was open and honest. There is a lot of work to be done at Finch Farm this week. Saturday next is huge.

It's Sunday league tactics for this shower of inadequates, into the channels or lump it for flick ons and pick up any bits, basic but these clowns aren't capable of doing the basics in the first two thirds of the pitch.

Everyone say your prayers tonight, even the atheists, we need all the help we can get!

- we just won / played well with much the same team

- with Mykolenko out, it was very hard to play a back 4 with the players available

- Calvert-Lewin obviously not fit

- a back 4 would have left us with Coleman, Kenny, Braithwaite or Townsend at left-back

- although Allan and Gomes have a track record of being overpowered as a duo, they did well against Brentford

- to add an extra midfielder would have robbed us of Gray or Gordon who are a likely goal contributor

My main worry was Coleman at right-wingback and the central midfield. And true to form it didn't work – plus you can point fingers at our regularly underperforming centre-backs.

The real issue though is that we lost two critical players to injury and should have been playing against 10 men when we were one-nil up.

With Mina and Gray against 10 men, we would have won that game. The refereeing and scandalous situation with VAR has robbed us.

We needed to show more tonight and stop the rot – a draw even just to steady things, but we aren't entering the field of play with the mental toughness needed. I fear we may have too much to change in the time left this season.

Alli and Van de Beek looked rusty but they'll come good. The mounting injuries are a concern but I think we've got enough to survive. No more two in midfield, please.

The loss of personnel is becoming a major problem regardless.

We had that game in control and when we went ahead, we should have concentrated; it was ours for the taking. I need time to analyse properly but we just seemed to lose our heads and then collapse and lose the plot. The sign of a team low on confidence once we got hit with a counter punch.

We were actually taking over St James's Park, both on the pitch and from the sky where they put us. How do they continuously get away with that? As Brian Murray pointed out, isn't there some regulation that away supporters must be able to be pitch side?

I consider myself a fit bloke for my age but it was a lick out and the 2 poor blokes in front of me counted it out; 141 steps just to get to the entrances to the seats. If you were on the back rows, you had further to go. As I said to my brother, it was like the Top Balcony on steroids, but at least we had the decency and foresight to put in escalators!

Anyway, I'll be home in about 4 hours, lick my wounds and then the dogs will have me up 2 hours later. The poor things are in for a special lecture in the morning.

Leeds next. No point dwelling.

You could argue that Trippier caught him out, but there was a gap in the wall and Trippier is good at spotting those scenarios.

Pickford can't control individual players going to pieces in front of him, and if it wasn't for him, that would have been 4 or 5.

The centre of midfield and defence are completely gutless and leaderless and I'm extremely worried. Leeds Utd on Saturday is now very much a must-win and we the supporters at the Grand Old Lady must do our thing once more to pull this spineless lot out of the doo-doo.

One last thing: I thought the manager could have at least changed the formation to see if that made any difference. Disappointed he didn't, but will give him the benefit of the doubt. at least he now knows he enormity of the job..

Other teams will have seen how easily we can be bullied. Not at all sure what Frank can do. Young Branthwaite did okay In the circumstances, but changes will be required for Saturday and I am not sure that we have too many options. Let's hope we will have a change of luck.

No aggression, no passion, no movement up front. The injuries certainly affected us badly but are no excuse for such an insipid performance and what a crap journey home for the great supporters who went there.

Unlike other posters, I thought Branthwaite did okay and looks very calm on the ball. Keane passed him into trouble time and again but he kept his cool and passed to his own team.

Alli was off the pace but you can see he has ability. Donny was the big plus from this- he looks like the midfield general we have been crying out for but he needs support. Gomes too slow against this type of opposition as was Allan. We were badly outfought and need that third man in central midfield.

This was very worrying and Frank now knows what he is facing. Good luck; we need you to get an early grip and fill the team with fighters – if you can find enough of them!

At this level we just cannot afford to have Allan and Gomes in the team as they don't have the legs and neither can tackle properly. Mina simply threw the towel in tonight and he needs to go because it's a permanent mindset with him unless Lampard can do something to change it.

Not sure what the line up will be against Leeds but it is a game we dare not lose. Lampard has just realized how tough this Everton job is.

We had Townsend playing wing back, lost Mina, can he play two games in a row?

Gray was a massive loss. I couldn't understand bringing on Alli, he's not a left winger; putting Richarlison on the left and Calvert-Lewin in the middle would have kept our shape.

Leeds on Saturday is massive, especially as we're stretched at the back, Townsend didn't work.

Look at the form table, then look at the league table and you might understand the snarky negativity. We ain't stupid: we know that the players haven't changed even if the manager has, we are stuck with those players and it's frightening how easily they lose league games.

All we needed tonight was to put up a backs-to-the-wall they-shall-not-pass type of performance and hope to come away with a draw. Getting tonked 3-1 by what will now be a resurgent Toon Army ain't great and being only 5 points ahead of bottom placed Burnley isn't great either.

I do think that Watford, Norwich and Brentford may save Everton from the drop, but it's going to be touch and go right to the final game.

The only person who looked more shell shocked than some of our players was the manager, but he will learn quickly I'm sure.

What were the weird choices, Townsend playing wingback? Bringing his new signing on instead of Calvert-Lewin, (understandable) whilst going with the same formation that got us a victory on Saturday, was also understandable imo.

"You can't buy character in John Lewis," was what Benitez said, and I think Frank Lampard will be having the same thoughts on the journey home tonight.

Brentford or Newcastle? – Knee-jerk or Normal service?

Though to be fair, Howe as a new broom has had a bit more time than our new broom.

Over to you, Mr Lampard.

No matter who manages this outfit, their choice is no choice.

Selecting from indistinguishable shite with different numbers on their back isn't managing – it's rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Please stop it – you're talking absolute bollocks.

Hamstrung by injuries, the last thing we needed was pointless early bookings.

I agree with posters who state that we should adopt a longer game. We don't move the ball fast enough through the midfield, so play Calvert-Lewin and miss it out more.

The only way we will stay up now is if we make Everton a snarling bear pit – every game.

I honestly didn't even watch Trippier take the free-kick, because I just knew Pickford had left him too much of the goal to aim at, and has obviously also lined his wall up wrong.

He was at fault for lining the wall up so badly... plus he should have got a hand on the free-kick.

We were well beaten in the end, but I have to say I believe more in the football we attempted to play rather than the passive surrender Benitez had us playing all season.

I couldn't agree more. I still saw signs of hope in a very difficult game. In a bear pit of an atmosphere, 2 days rest, 2 injuries (key ones) early.

The one thing I took away from this game was Mason Holgate was simply abject. So, so bad it defies logic.

I said verbatim on the live forum – I think this team will stay up. I really do.

But the truly scary thing is our back line now. Mason just isn't near good enough. Branthwaite is a kid and just not ready. Keane is Keane. Our back line is frightening to me, at the moment.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that I absolutely do not want to see Mason Holgate on the pitch anytime soon.

Scary times. We have, in my opinion, a damn good manager now. But he's not the "pack it in and stave off relegation" type of dude.

Go outscore Leeds, Southampton, and Watford before the end of March, Frank! Your strength is now entirely at the attacking end of the pitch. Throw the kitchen sink at them and find 9 points from those three games!

Should be 4-4-2. The wide players should drop in when not in possession and offer width and attacking support when going forward.

4-4-2 also gives us two banks of 4 when defending.

Everton where error-prone in a defence that was often too deep, with a midfield liablity in Gomes. When pressurised, he can be pushed deep, where he is error-prone either by giving the ball away with taking chances on the edge of area or fouling.

This leaves the midfield available for the opposition. Which they are able to push into and maintain a higher defensive line. Evertons final-third play evaporates and forwards are isolated. Dele Alli was not at the races.

Everton still find it difficult keeping hold of the ball. Corners and free-kicks into the box still a nightmare for Pickford and his defenders. Everton are a shambles at this moment.

Good luck, Frank, you will need it.

Because Brentford don't press, it gave Gomes time on the ball to dictate play. He would be far better going back home or Spain where the football is less frenetic.

I've been worried all season; even our early wins were fortunate, add in Grays last-minute screamer and Arsenal missing a last second open goal and things could be a lot worse.

All over the media, people keep saying we have too much to go down.….they don't watch us carefully and don't realise how dysfunctional and gutless this bunch really are. I'll be amazed and ecstatic if we stay up.

That should be the end of him, and Townsend who was also absolutely shocking. Van de Beek looked good I think, and will certainly start against Leeds.

After we scored, we suddenly got overwhelmed in midfield. We made Shelvey look good. I think we were set up as a 3-4-3. We simply shouldn't play with 2 central midfielders with the players we have available. It exposes our soft belly and it puts pressure on our decent but not great centre-backs.

I'll shut up. I've been going on about that for ages, but it isn't changing until the summer. We need a centre back.

I've just had the announcement that I will shortly be arriving at Doncaster.

How more depressing can today get?

Mina is a big lad but has he ever soldiered on? Yes if there's something serious that could get worse than come off. But like James he seems to off at the first discomfort. And if he is that fragile that every tweak does him then he needs to retire.

We simply have to put that behind us on Saturday. If we beat Leeds, the table will look a lot healthier, but tonight that feels a big “if”.

Frank and his team are being well paid, they need to earn it this week.

if you wanted to play the longer game you should have gone for Fat Sam.
Lampard has been with us for 10 days, and some of his coaches less.

The problem he has, we played a poor Brentford side that made the players look good. Today he needed this result, even though he didn't want to see it, to see the problems he has, injuries apart.

Reading comments before the game it seemed a lot of supporters were not very confident of this game giving us a good result. I think there were positives from this game:

(a) He now knows what he is up against; and
(b) They still tried to play football on the ground.
(c) Also, the players stood up for each other when the game got a bit rough.

We are in trouble, but it wasn't this manager that put us in this position, and I believe he can get us out.

How can you not be snarky or negative after that spineless surrender?

Play 2 in midfield in a 4-4-2 or 3-4-3 and you will get over-run in the modern game.

The only way you get away with it is with 4-2-3-1.

But like any formation, you don't pick the formation you want to play, you pick the best formation that suits the players you have available.

Newark I believe is next stop. I'm in the coach next to the bar fortunately.

Then there is Gomesz giving away free kicks and getting booked. Spurs fans are happy to see Dele Alli on his way.

But why not another centre half during the transfer window? Everyone should know by now, Mina's physical body can't deal with the Premier League. He is always getting injured.

You conduct a fighting retreat, regroup and go at the next target.

The next target is Leeds on Saturday.

You are perusing an open Everton FC fan forum after the team got tonked.

A place where one might expect to come across disappointment and frustration, assessments of players and team selection, and opinions on tactics and the coaching staff.

Wind your neck in.

Frank:

“Yerry's a muscle injury, his quad” Lampard told evertontv. “Demarai was a hip. We are hoping with him it's not too bad. It's something that he's had before that he got over quite quickly but, with Yerry, we'll have to assess him over the next few days.”

With Everton starting to dominate the game prior to the enforced changes, Lampard conceded their absences did not help his side's cause.

“They are two big players for us” he added. “Demarai's had a fantastic season so far and I thought that we were causing them some problems with Anthony [Gordon], Demarai and Richarlison as we wanted to.

“Yerry is obviously a big player for us as well, so when you lose two big players you also restrict yourself on subs in the second half.

"I would have made more changes to try to affect the game, but it was impossible to other than to bring on Donny [Van de Beek] who came on at a difficult time. They were big circumstances that happened that made it difficult tonight.”

By the way, i didn't care for that at all, Ray. ;)

We needed to recognise the deep shit we are in and got in battle hardened Premier League ready players in the transfer window and a pragmatic manager.

Let's pray that Lampard can learn quickly or we will go down. The folly of spending our war chest on young, untested full-backs is looking like one of the final nails in our coffin at the moment.

Leeds, Man City, Wolves, Man U, Palace, Chelsea, Brentford, Leicester and Newcastle all have to visit Goodison and in all of those games we need the supporters to really rally around the team, regardless of who is chosen and the formation employed.

We may have thought deep down that we would somehow clamber our way out of this mess, but it's also clear that the players are incapable of doing it for themselves, therefore we have to resist the negative feelings and get behind those Blue shirts.

We'll have plenty of time in the summer – however things pan out – to make our feelings known about the club and the players.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want Goodison's last hurrah to be outside of the top division and it's so important for all aspects of the club to remain in the Premier League.

I'd rather play the ball through midfield than adopt Big Sam tactics but our midfield without Doucouré doesn't carry the ball through fast enough.

We've got good attacking options but no midfield to service it. Miss it out occasionally then.

I was hopeful of 3 points from Newcastle and Leeds and thought we'd get them tonight.

We really are in freefall. The way it's going, unfortunately, Holgate will probably play against Leeds. If Coleman plays, Leeds will tear him a new one.

These players have let every manager down and themselves. Presently there are not three worse teams than us and, regardless of what Lampard says, Leeds is a 6-pointer that can only be won or lost by the crowd.

There was never going to be a 'honeymoon' period, for Frank Lampard or whoever took the Everton job at this juncture, the biggest mistake that the club has made was hanging onto Benitez for far too long, when it was clear he couldn't buy a win, he should have gone.

I believe that, even if the worst happens, Frank will still be at Goodison next season. Anyone having a go at Frank after tonight, hasn't been watching Everton very much at all.

He's a football guy, he knew what he was taking on, and he said that the two games this week weren't make or break. However, losing the game and yet more injuries to players won't help his cause but he can only do so much to try and salvage a bad situation.

It's all about the players now and whether they can do something to stop the rot, starting on Saturday.

Duncan ain't daft is he?

Secondly, and more importantly, we were playing quite well until their equaliser went in and lifted the whole ground and Newcastle players.

Gray being replaced by Alli was a major turning point in that he looked like a little boy lost for most of the game. I just hope Mourhino hasn't destroyed the player he can be.

I thought Van de Beek and Allan looked like they would work well together but the overriding feeling after the game is one of disappointment in the formation, ie, Richard playing as the No 9 with no support against a thug-like Newcastle defence and the 3 at the back as others have expanded on. Wrong choice for Newcastle and will need a rethink for Leeds.

Also Gomes should only be a bench player at home, if we can't or won't just phase him out. No way Onyango or another can't influence a game more than him surely.

Our form indicates relegation is coming. We would need a real turn around in performances to avoid the drop. Simply, we don't have the fight or ability to stop it. I am accepting we will be relegated based on statistics and form!

Frank has fresh ideas! No!! Back to basics. This is in a hole with no way out! Stick to 4 4 2 and get that ball sideways and long! We have no ball winners in midfield bye pass them. It's not pretty but Barnsley on a Tuesday in January won't be. The championship will eat this lot alive!!

We were poor. I saw Anthony Gordon? He's not there by a million miles yet.
I saw Branthwaite? A young player above his years. A captain of our club. Brilliant.

Richarlison was wasted in our set up.

It's pretty difficult to be calm in the current situation, as the Echo noted since we drew with Man Utd at Old Trafford in October, Everton have added a further 5 points to the tally, whilst the Barcodes have taken 15, yet some still believe that some of us are panicking unnecessarily!

I recall a game around December 1978, and I'm sure the Trevor Ross scored a scorcher into the Street End, past David Harvey, to save a point for Everton in the last few minutes of the game.

I'll take the same again, but ideally an Everton win, by any scale, this Saturday.

It's hard times at Goodison Park in terms of winning games. UTFT!

Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about with so many injuries and poor players but I believe Lampard and his back room staff will squeeze enough juice out of these prunes to see us to safety.

I don't get the criticism of either Pickford, Branthwaite or Alli.

Pickford wasn't at fault for any of the goals. Branthwaite settled down after a shaky start and looked good towards the end and Alli is so short of match sharpness it was painful to watch at times but he'll be okay with a few games under his belt.

Our major downfall is our sloppiness in possession. Holgate, Keane, Allan, Townsend and Gomes failed repeatedly to find a teammate and lost the ball adding to the pressure on an already fragile team.

We are in a fight but I believe with the players we have, ie, Pickford, Branthwaite, Alli, Gordon, Van de Beek, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, Gray etc… we have enough to survive and it starts against Leeds.

This team has the least amount of heart and desire that I have ever seen.

Excellent short 'n' sweet post that tells it how it is.

I believe Burnley are the only ones below us who have yet to do a 'number' on us; it's coming... can you feel it?

The main positive tonight was that Donny looked decent in midfield, but I agree with Danny that we need an extra man in central midfield. We simply don't have the quality in that area to play with two.

The Goodison roar will have a big role to play on Saturday.

That said, I'm sorry to say that the responsibility for the woeful situation we're in is entirely the fault of those in the boardroom and/or Monaco. They're really woeful.

I appreciate that as "mere" fans we can't change much where it really matters and I hugely appreciate the fabulous support given by Evertonians as the next match looms up but, if Frank Lampard and his coaches can get a relegation-avoiding tune out of those at Finch Farm, he'll deserve to be manager of the season, as far as I'm concerned.

I know, Barry, I know.

I admit to wondering why Danny O'Neill among others had been calling for a new centre-half this window. I had my eyes well and truly opened tonight. One essential quality required – he must be horrible.

I have no bright ideas on how we are going to get out of this situation but I do know that, as Barry Hesketh said @ 139, the Goodison crowd will have a huge part to play.

Newcastle aren't going down based on that. Too much fight and too many horrible players for that to happen.

I am going to try to adopt our departed friend Harold Matthew's philosophy for times like this – “Don't dwell on things that upset you”.

We will have to go again Saturday.

I can only imagine that he would be an improvement on the way Gomes played tonight. Van de Beek also looked better than Gomes so maybe Allan, Gordon and Van de Beek as the midfield three. Let's hope that we have a healthy left-back for the Leeds game.

I also think that we should try to move Yerry Mina on in the summer. He is our best defender but his poor attendance does not justify his cost.

We also need some craft in central midfield as all the players we have there are very similar in their styles of play... no doubt the lad Harrison will have a decent game at the weekend too... he's the player we need.

Your 2nd paragraph says it all.

Why oh why can't these fucking players of ours stop chewing gum and concentrate for a few minutes after taking the lead?

We gifted them a quick equaliser which lifted their players and stadium and from that point on it was game over.

Pickford
Coleman Holgate Keane Kenny
Van de Beek Allan Alli
Gordon Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Oh, and I would be practicing set pieces for the next 3 days. More goals conceded from corners, and Pickford's wall was atrocious!

Lampard needs a few weeks to work on the defence and tighten up from set-pieces. Do this and we'll be okay. Failure to do so will mean it goes to the wire. We need to get back to basics with these players, particularly the back 4. Possession is great, once you have a team that can defend!

In a game like tonight when Everton were constantly under pressure, 4 at the back is better than 3 at the back. But when Everton do the attacking, both full-backs can get forward to support the wingers, who can defend when the full-backs are put under pressure.

In midfield, when the opposition play 3 in the middle, one of the attacking players can drop back into midfield and bolster the middle. But when there is an attacking momentum the midfield can support the 2 upfront.

Even though I'm Seamie's biggest fan, you've hit the nail on the head 4 times in 4 succinct paragraphs there.

Frank has a mountain to climb and I really don't think he has the equipment to make it.

Given the revolving line-ups and the queue on the treatment tables, it will be cobbled together with what is available. Frank is largely reduced to what Carlo had to figure out, finding the defensive setup that will survive 40% possession.

Everyone has their view, obviously, or this site would be redundant, but, for what it's worth, my take on the game was:

(a) We have players that are young & talented who may make it – eg, Gordon and Branthwaite – but are not yet there;

(b) Younger players who will never make it – eg, Holgate;

(c) Older players who are also simply not at the level – eg, Keane, Gomes; and

(d) Brilliant players who are not consistent – eg, Gray, Richarlison.

Add to that extraordinarily unlucky injuries of a kind we have come to expect, a new manager coming in with different ideas, the opposition having an absolutely brilliant player who we couldn't live with, and you get what we got. Absolutely gutting.

I watched it in a pub down south with 3 Geordies screaming and braying at every goal; it was a very very taxing evening.

I agree. 4-3-3 with injuries on the back line is the only way to go.

I like your lineup. I'd make one change:
Branthwaite for Holgate.

Holgate was so bad tonight, and he's really the only Everton player I've ever had negative feelings about. He drives me absolutely crazy.

We're in a sticky situation so it's all hands to the pump. I just think Mason will make mistake after mistake, poor pass after poor pass, and then strut around the pitch like his shit doesn't stink. I'm through being patient with him. My feelings are hitting near Iwobi - Glassar levels when it comes to Holgate.

Meanwhile, we had left our best efforts and form on the pitch on Saturday. I would have put a lot of money on Mina pulling up in the first half. He is physically incapable of playing two games in four days. One look at his medical history should tell a manager that.

In the modern game, you need to change a winning team when they are being asked to play twice in four days. It is hard to see where the next win or even a clean sheet is coming from. Attack might be our best form of defence.

He looks good on the ball, has some nice technical ability, but I can't figure out what he is. He's not a ball-winner, he plays passes where you can't figure out what he saw, he plays blind passes where he clearly didn't have any awareness of what was around him. So he's not a playmaker. With his dangerous (to us) passes and silly fouls, he's a liability.

He did all that against Brentford. But they gave him so much time on the ball that he 'looked good'.

Likewise Holgate. He struts around, so in a game where he's not pressured he can 'look good'.

Neither have a place in our team. We're not going to find a way to play to their strengths, because they don't have any obvious strengths besides 'looking good' in games where they're not required to do much.

As for Mina, I think he's played more for his country than his club. I'm sure he's a great character but he's never going to be a regular. He's not particularly good when he does play.

Survival? Not with 34 points.

Tonight was a 6-pointer which could have and should have lifted the points total and confidence.

We need to somehow take points off the likes of Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham and Gobshites if we are to survive the drop.

I also realise that "Give him time" is not appropriate advice when we just don't have time.However, I think this game has given him a far better insight into Everton than he may have had before.

He should come into the next game without feeling any obligations to any player. So many of our biggest complainers even suggested that we did not need any changes due to our Brentford win.

The two injuries did not help – nor did our typical "charity" goals. I don't think any team in the Premier League gives away as many daft goals as we do.

We now have 5 days to the next game. Frank, you now know that we really do have a serious problem. I still have confidence that you can still do something about it. Please do some magic!! I am sure you do not want to be the manager of a Championship team. However, I will still be an Everton supporter whether you are in charge or not.

Many will probably disagree with me but I think we should have brought on El Ghazi for Gray. We'd have kept the shape, but I think Lampard was too desperate to bring on the more high profile player in the shape of Dele Alli.

For the Leeds game, and assuming Mykolenko will be out, I think I'll go for a 4-2-3-1 with:

Pickford
Patterson, Holgate, Branthwaite, Kenny
Allan, Van de Beek
Gordon, Alli, Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin

Frank Lampard doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would bail if he went down. Conversely, I think he'd set an immediate goal for promotion the next season.

I'm sticking with Frank through thick and thin. I like him, I like his approach to the game, how he wants to play, and his attitude.

Come what may, Frank should be and needs to be the manager for the long term.

You're not alone. I got some stick on Saturday for suggesting that the scoreline flattered us and we didn't look vastly improved. I felt Brentford were incredibly poor while we had a bit more energy and passion without being much better than we have been. I said that while also acknowledging that I didn't expect Lampard to work miracles in just a few days and a win was good enough.

Like you, I didn't feel Gomes was amazing against Brentford. I saw misplaced passes, silly fouls and runs down blind alleys. He just put himself about a bit more without actually adding much value. And more of the same tonight.

That said, I didn't heap all kinds of praise upon Lampard or the team on Saturday and I won't pillory them for tonight. We are in deep shit but it's going to take at least a few more games to turn things around, if indeed we do. There are some poor teams in the Premier League and we're fortunate to have better individuals than them – but that's no guarantee. We don't have to improve much to get out of trouble, but we do need to improve, and quickly.

So disappointed in that display. My default position is still that we have a weak bunch of players but the injuries sure don't help. Newcastle were bloody aggressive but I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't equalised so quickly.

That Toon crowd is one of the noisiest around. Got to hand it to them.

Why for pity's sake didn't we go 4-5-1 at the start of the second half ? We'd been battered, looked second best, couldn't handle their aggressive press and were over run in midfield.

Why not accept that a draw in these circs was decent? Why not try and compete in midfield and hope for a break away goal or something from the odd corner or free-kick? We desperately needed to win the ball more from the midfield area.

None of which hides the fact that we are in a seven-team fight to stay up. What a mess.

We have some good individual players but we can't play collectively and have no backbone, so we're basically Man Utd but with worse players.

Unfortunately Frank has yet to demonstrate he possesses the hard headed pragmatism required to implement that sort of formation. The reason the fans wanted Frank was because he wants to play progressive football.

It will be interesting to see how long we will be patient if progressive football, without the quality of players required to implement it, fails to deliver results.

All very worrying.

I think the injuries to Gray and Mina upset Franks game plan tonight. I don't think changing Dele Alli for the injured Gray was a wise move. I would have brought on Calvert-Lewin and moved Richarlison out wide to keep our shape.

With the injuries I am not sure how we will set up against Leeds. The big problem is going to be in defence especially if he wants to play a back 3. Maybe time to try Patterson in that right wing back position over Seamus. Allan and Van de Beek in midfield with Mykolenko on the left and then Gordon, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison up front.

I hope we can get the injured guys back quickly as we need them desperately.

Long trip up and a long trip back but I slept most of it so at least I'm sober. Well double sober after that performance.

Nothing to analyse. We just went to pieces after they equalised.

They owe us on Saturday. Good night all. 3 hours until my wake-up call.

He would've kicked all the pussies in the team right now.

It was good to see some organization for our corners but now have to work on defending them as, for their equalizer, absolutely nobody challenged for the ball and the second neither Keane nor Branthwaite seemed to know which of them should go for it but it would be hard to blame Branthwaite who was a little lost at left-back. For their third, what was Gordon doing at the end of the wall being neither on it or off it.

Gomes just looked lost with the pace of the game and when Dele Alli came on he looked like he'd read all the books but this was the first time he'd ever set foot on a pitch.

Now we need to stop all the fannying around at the back which would be helped if the midfield wanted the ball more although Van de Beek looked good when he came on.

I'm fed up saying how poor the refereeing is in England but it now seems as though barging into the back of a player without going for the ball is deemed fair play. Townsend was flattened and when Holgate challenged for the ball he was booked when a free-kick should have been given only seconds before the ball got there.

Extremely disappointed that we were well beaten and mostly by the pace of the game.

I think the difference is that I 'm not surprised we lost and they won. I lived in Newcastle for a few years and my wife's a Geordie.

I expected them to come out fighting and, knowing our frailty, to rough us up, which they did. The football itself was another thing. "Kick the crap out of them from the start, lads!"

We must hope that Calvert-Lewin gets fit enough to allow us to adapt formation and style of play given the urgency of our situation. He is key. Richarlison on the left may also help a lot.

Lampard and Clement (and others) will surely recognise that at least some of the aesthetics may have to be sacrificed.

It really is unbelievable that we've come out of the January transfer window without acquiring a ball winner, someone who might not have been technically gifted but would lead by example and sustain spirits. Instead, we believed it more important to spend the little money we had on two untried full-backs.

When we did eventually look at doing something for our midfield, we went and bought a couple of unsettled players short of game time and whose attributes are very different from what we require in the present dogfight.

And let's forget all this crap about the Goodison crowd getting us over the line. Crowd fervour might drive some opposition to distraction but if that same fervour is not already in the DNA of our own 11 on the pitch – and there's no evidence so far that it is –then we're done for.

Not defending this shower but who in the fuck had any character in '98? '94, yes Graham Stuart, Horne, Southall etc but 98? Big Dunc when he refused to train? O'Kane?

That team was by far the worst I've ever seen wear a blue shirt. It's down to divine intervention that Oster and co didn't get relegated. I still wake up in a cold sweat dreaming about Myrhe, Ward, Thomas, Tyler and Farrelly in an Premier League team. They were complete shit so much so we brought in the middle-aged Peter Beagrie, years after his failure as an Evertonian, to add some “quality”.

If this shower go down, it's not cause they're worse than that lot it's because the league is tougher and they're not the luckiest sons of bitches ever. The '98 team was in a league of its own in ineptitude

Dele Alli's showed glimpse of good control on receiving some passes. Other than that, he showed very little. Definitely need more time to get match fit.

Holgate's poor decision to pass the ball near the D turns the tide. Very disappointing. If we kept the lead we might have a platform to build upon.

Van de Beek looks sharp and hungry. But more ball recycling than able to put in a forward pass. We'll see.

Newcastle have been under Howe for a while now, got a few signings in, at home. There were a lot of factors in their favour.

And how unlucky are we with injuries!!

Constantly overrun in midfield, Allan and Gomes need to go, far, far too slow for this league and always looking a liability. I know we have injuries but even so I don't think this setup is doing anyone any favors.

Why oh why did we not get a couple of no-nonsense centre-backs in as it's so so obvious that we need strength in that position. I hope to Christ that Alli and Van de Beek can inject some attacking ideas so at least we can outscore some teams.

On this performance, it's the only way we're going to win games. Bitterly disappointed here.

If we are not the worst team in the Premier League, we are certainly in the Bottom 3. We are now staring relegation in the face with an inexperienced manager and a bunch of serial losers.

It will possibly get a little interesting with Burnley and Newcastle coming into form. Burnley could have taken 3 and Weghorst looks a fighter beyond Woods's skill level. Let's hope the joke is kn Newcastle in the end.

FFP, most divisive manager in our history, record signing missing, worst recruitment in football history, worst injuries ever seen, bad luck, bad refereeing decisions... but still thinking we're not ‘really' in a relegation fight and so don't react with any sort of pragmatism.

It will be a miracle if we don't go down…I hope there's relegation clauses in all the contracts but, based on our unbelievable ineptitude, I doubt it.

Everton are too easily pushed deep as a result. This is exacerbated by a defence with players who follow suit, with error-prone players. In hindsight, Van de Beek should have started. He has to start the next game. It would have been a better tactical move. Both Gomes and Holgate became liabilities resulting in goals against.

Newcastle were able to push up in support of their attack as lower-table sides have been able to do all season against Everton. Dele Alli is way off the pace and looks lightweight. Mykolenko was missed. Coleman played okay, Townsend's crossing was -poor. Richarlison was isolated.

Need a motivated performance against Leeds and hopefully Frank has learnt. If Van de Beek had played from the start, it would have been different.

His stupid mostly inner fouls nearly always result in us being put under pressure. Pity there are no statistics to show how many goals we've conceded as a result of those niggling fouls of his.

We really are in the shit. The two teams below us have hit form. I have never seen an Everton worse than this team.

I lost count of how many times we put ourselves under pressure by not completing simple passes to teammates when not under pressure. Alli did not fill me with any confidence, looked like he was strolling around as if he was on holiday.

But, at the end of the day, Newcastle wanted the win; we were too scared to want the win.

We seemed to revert back to type against a team that weren't much better than us, more aggressive, that's for sure, but their big difference was Saint-Maximin. How he was canonized so young is still a mystery, but his skill his undoubted.

Frankie and his newly assembled back room team have a conundrum to solve with time running out fast. As if we needed proof, certain players proved again that they have one decent game followed by ineptitude. I won't name them individually but we all have a pretty good idea of Who's Who in the Detritus Department!

We know we don't have good enough players to play out from the back. Lampard should know this too, but clearly doesn't. His first mistake is not being pragmatic enough and understanding the limited ability of most of our defenders.

Mina, Keane, Holgate, Coleman are a complete liability when it comes to trying to play out from the back. That alone would be bad enough, but attempting this style of play is compounded by the key central midfielder who is supposed to be the main outlet for the defenders and who is then supposed to initiate attacking moves. That's been Gomes of late, a guy who is so slow and easy to dispossess it's ridiculous. Others who've played this roll in the past are Davies (same as Gomes) and Doucouré who's not as slow and easy to dispossess, but is generally useless at passing forward.

Therefore we double down, defenders generally not good enough to retain the ball and midfielders who usually can't do anything with it, even if the defenders somehow avoid giving the ball to the opposition and get it to the midfielder in the first place.

Last night was yet again another abysmal demonstration of the basic technical inabilities of Mina, Holgate and Coleman to pass the ball to a teammate and Gomes's inability to retain the ball and likewise pass forward.

This lot will take us down if Lampard insists of attempting a style of play that requires defenders to be good with the ball. Ancelotti was the only one who found a way of playing that just about worked for the limited abilities of so many of our players. Lampard needs to do likewise soon, or else…

This one is underperforming. We have the basis of a good side. We need depth and better players (centre-back please). But that's not happening now. They need organising into a formation that suits them and they need an injection of confidence.

We collapsed under pressure last night. This team / squad has enough to stumble over the line but, as Derek says, time is starting to run out.

That will annoy me even more and show that some players really don't care.

I'm sorry but 1 win in 15 tells me this team is utter shite.

The injury to Gray really impacted any movement and dynamism we had going forward. Then the injury to Mina removed our only decent defender.

Branthwaite was like a deer staring at headlights. Young and thrown in to the deep end. He gets no criticism from me.

This time last year people were writing off Gordon after he struggled when give chances, heck they were still writing him off after his first few games this season.

But Townsend as a left-back and Coleman on the right is dreadful and with these players this system can't work. Especially with a midfield as weak and open as Gomes and Allan.

Van de Beek must start the next game. Alli will be a sub for most of the season. We need Calvert-Lewin fit. We need Mykolenko and Patterson to get integrated and up to speed.

Nothing to do about the defence until next season.

Frank will have to learn quickly to impress on the players the need to clear our lines quickly as very few off them can actually hold the ball and pick out a pass.

Gomes and Allan are unbelievably slow and weak in possession. Neither of them can tackle, head the ball, and have the anticipation of a dead cow.

We still have some very good players. Good enough to keep us up, IMO.

Time to go long again. As long as it gets us the points we need I don't care.

I saved this from a few years ago in the event that we found ourselves in this situation.

Sam's seven survival tactics:

Keep a clean sheet
Do not lose possession in your own half
Play the first pass forward
Win the knock-down
Make the most of set-pieces
Exploit the opposition's weaknesses
Capitalise on opportunities in the final third

“These are the keys to stay up.”

Those players that started last night and the subs have let those travelling fans and every other fan down throughout this season. They are so so poor as a group.

Stop making excuses for them, they are not good enough and especially Holgate, Gomes, and Coleman (end of career). Richarlison was poor again.

Gordon, Gray and Branthwaite get a pass as they have been okay. Start with the new signings, for fuck's sake, Frank, and see a difference.

There no two ways about it , we are now in a relegation battle. Special attention should be given to that word 'battle'. To win battles on the pitch you need warriors with mental strength as well as physical.

A lot was said in December and January in many posts and even dedicated threads that we definitely needed one maybe even two combative, tough midfield enforcers. Ball winners who can get in the face of the opponents, wrestle the physical control of matches, close down fast and break up play.

Instead, we got Van de Beek who is a good positive signing and looks like he will improve he mobility of our midfield. Dele Alli looks like a luxury signing considering our current squad balance, when our midfield needs were screaming out for someone very different.

At the moment, with our current players available we have to go with a midfield three of Allan, Gomes and Van de Beek. Allan and Gomes need to raise their games but in a midfield three they will have their best chance to operate better. With Doucouré back we can be better.

The focus now has to be the willingness to battle. If we can match the teams around us for desire and fight, we will be just about okay.

My team for Leeds:

Pickford
Patterson Keane Branthwaite Mykolenko
Richarlison Allan Van de Beek Gbamin Gray
Calvert-Lewin

I'm talking about the ability of the players in comparison to those in the periods I referred to. Not good enough, but they are better. Underperforming and need smelling salts, coffee and the Goodison Witch Doctor to wake them up.

Gray going off did impact – almost instantly.

Richarlison, in his defence, was left isolated and void of service. The front 3 that operated as a pack against Brentford didn't last night.

We had a gaping hole in midfield that made Newcastle look good. Once they realised (it took them a while), it gave them confidence. We need 3 in midfield. 4-3-3. That's what this current Everton team and squad has to set up.

We reverted back to Benitez's Everton ironically once we went ahead, we subsequently collapsed at the first ask.

Sorry everyone. 3 hours sleep and even that was broken.

I have to agree with Ian at 117. I thought it was Branthwaite at first, but talk about leaving the door ajar. Gordon left it wide open for Trippier to shoot. Absolutely mental. Not sure who it was, but the end man should have pulled Gordon aross and Pickford should have been on that as well.

Also agree with Ian's 4-4-2 comments.

We were just bullied out of the game last night. Concentrate after scoring and just clear the defensive lines – that could well have been points on the board. Besides their nark, Newcastle were nothing. We were just worse than nothing.

All round, a bad match of football.

Leeds will be different.

Carlo soon realised we didn't have the players to play out from the back. Our issues continuously come from giving the ball away in poor areas, along with making stupid fouls trying to win it back. Any team that presses us will cause major problems.

We need to get the ball forward more quickly with the midfield winning second balls in the opposition's half. Van de Beek is going to have to play deeper than he would like to, as it's obvious Dele isn't going do that job.

Lampard was lulled into a false sense of security after the win on Saturday. Brentford were poor, and basically didn't fancy it.

The likes of Holgate, Coleman, Gomes and Townsend should not be starting any games, unless we have an even worse injury crisis. With the players we have available I'd go 4-2-3-1:

Pickford,
Mylochenko, Keane, Branthwaite, Patterson,
Allan, Van de Beek,
Gordon, Alli, Richarlison,
Calvert-Lewin.

The RS do it every Derby match (helped by the referee) and we capitulate.

This was especially true without some of our most physical players – Calvert-Lewin, Mina, Godfrey, Doucouré.

Lampard needs to find a team that is physically present (Rangnick's words about Man Utd recently – he is struggling with the same sorts of issues there).

Gomes (not just because of last night) is a really awful player for us for so many reasons. Van de Beek needs to come in.

Alli gave a reminder last night about why we should think twice before signing big names on downward trajectories. Hopefully he can regain his enthusiasm for running about very soon.

In retrospect, El Ghazi would have been a better bet to replace Gray.

We have got a few decent forward players now but it's imperative that Calvert-Lewin gets fit and firing, because it's got to be 4-5-1 for a while imo. Dominic is going to be so important, because he's the only one physical enough to occupy two central defenders, and it's very obvious we need a defensive midfielder to play in front of whoever plays in our back four.

Trouble is, according to the BBC (I know), Newcastle were the team with the 40% possession, well 39% actually.

It's a worry.

You're deluding yourself.

The teams from the '90s where technically terrible but had some players that would run through brick walls for the club.

This current team has no heart or desire and is full of multi-millionaires that aren't arsed about the club. We are nowhere near.

We are the worst team in the Premier League. 6 points from 45 is it now?

Roll on Saturday.

You can't expect crud central defenders who can't pass, passing it out to central midfielders who can't keep or control a ball. The opposition turn us over and are in against our useless defence.

Usually leads to an attempt on goal, or a daft free-kick given away due to the mistake already made.

Groundhog Day with this shower.

So easy to beat, just press our bunch of losers and the bottle goes.

Not saying all at once but the likes of Dobbin and Onyango will surely make more of an impact than the usual suspects, including nailed-on starters like Richarlison, if it's not working.

Got to try something Benitez was terrified to do.

The defence went into panic mode as soon as pressure was applied. Saint-Maximin is a fearsome player and we won't be facing him every week, but him and Fraser on their right were the perfect weapons against a side lacking mobility at full-back and even less in central defence.

I am surprised that this coaching group came up with the same solution, but I was also shocked when Ferguson did the same for the Villa defeat. So Rafa, Dunc and Frank thought the two in midfield would be okay... Incredible!

The nervy Pickford certainly was jittery with the crowd on his back and his nervousness seemed to spread to the whole defence. The sight of them trying to pass it round at the back had me palpitating. Has Frank not realised that none of that defence can do it?

We brought trouble onto ourselves and Gomes and Allan struggled with lack of pace and poor passing all night.

Lampard was unable to influence the game after the two injuries. It would have been possible to throw Calvert-Lewin on for half-an-hour but, with a wilting Gomes already booked Donny van de Beek was the obvious choice. Dele Alli will improve.

The one constant in this saga, is that this group of players have failed under various managers. Mentally weak, technically poor, lacking creativity and goal threat... and worst of all – physically weak.

It is now a struggle to nick points here and there and hope that three other teams play worse than us.

In a nutshell, the fear is palpable. Nonchalant mistakes, poor passes undermine confidence, doubt spreads and mutates to fear. Paralysis sets in.

It is a group factor, and this group have shown it again and again under successive managers. It will take a lot to turn this around, in fact we need a magician.

I've gone from being numb, to gutted, to tired, to angry.

Ancelotti's "Im not a magician" comment was laid stark last night. We have good players but not enough of them. We need better players and more depth. That's been the issue for years regardless of manager. You can't turn bronze into silver or silver into gold.

That said, I think we still have enough. I have to believe that. And to reiterate, despite statistics & results, ability wise, this is not the worst Everton team I've seen (sadly).

Gray is a great find and losing him changed the game. Anthony Gordon is a gem that just keeps getting better; even last night, he was a shining light. With Richarlison, that is a great front 3 and we then have the option of Calvert-Lewin.

Branthwaite now get's his opportunity but is he the type of centre back to get us higher? That's a genuine question as, from what little I've seen of him, he strikes me of a potentially better Michael Keane and more in the traditional mould. But that can work. Providing we get that centre-back in!

I think we can all afford each other a pass today to vent. Not at each other, just in frustration.

Having slept (not soundly) on it, I think we've got to take a little context. By the 25th minute, we had 5 of our first choice 11 out. Newcastle are in a trough of positivity and had their fans under the lights. Saint-Maximin turned in a Messi-like performance and was the single biggest differentiator. We'll have easier days.

Glass half empty…..

We seem to have bought another injury-prone player in Mykolenko, and left him as the only genuine solution in such a key area of the pitch. On the other flank, we have bought someone not good enough yet to replace someone who's been “gone” for 2½ years plus. We invested in a right winger we don't need, and took huge gamble on Alli… again, a player I'm not sure we need as well as Van de Beek.

Verdict…..

We left it too late to dump Rafa and get Frank in. The board have let us down, and I have no idea why the protests should stop.

I think Branthwaite looked our most composed defender with the ball. Certainly kept possession and gave the ball away fewer times than others.

Gordon was my Everton MotM. We just didn't find him whenever he was making good runs, especially in the 1st half.

What I know and see is:

A flappy keeper. Defender's that are slow and can't pass. Having the ball in our defensive 3rd only puts our players under pressure and helps the opposition close us down and win the ball back in dangerous areas.

That's the tactics we want to play against, so why are we giving the advantage to the opposition?

I saw very few attempts to close down the opposition, very few hunting down in packs and a lack of knowing what to do whilst in or out of possession.

When closed down, as Newcastle did well, we needed to find the space and go long. Martinez, Silva, Koeman and even Ancelotti at first tried the 'play it out from the back' game and we can not do it!

Pep G would fail to get our players being able to do it. If he's the best coach at playing that way I have no confidence in Frank turning thing's around.

We need to turn the page and get the ball forward quicker.

What odds Frank getting sacked before the end of the season?That's how much of a misfit he is for our current squad. We should have kept Duncan at least to show fight, keep it simple and pick up a few points this Month.

Why do they get selected, week-in & week out? One is way past his best and slower than me, the other steals a living out of the club by doing the bare minimum.

Until we have a team with energetic, enthusiastic players such as Gordon, Godfrey and Richarlison, then we are going to struggle. We have to a bonded team, not a slow, lazy fractious unit.

If either Holgate or Gomes play on Saturday, I'll eat my hat. Frank, do what's kind and put them out of their misery and more importantly, our misery!!!

I tend to agree with everything in your list but part of me thinks that this squad can't play that way either!

Burnley play like that and are in the same shit as us.

We need to sit deep and hit on the break. I can't see any other way.

KITAP1

It's the board.

It's the footballing structure of the club.

It's been the problem for years but those responsible keep getting away with it using fall guys for self-preservation.

Not sure what our strengths are, but with Alli (ignoring last night and recent Spurs), Van de Beek, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, Gordon, Gray, Townsend – we have potential goals. 4-3-3 high tempo, high pressing for me.

If we go down, at least let's do so having a go rather than with an absolute wimper.

Fasten your seat belt.

We must get higher up the pitch quicker. Lampard is not an idiot and must be able to see this.

Your comment about not being a team who should pass around at the back is pretty sound too. All the other team need to do is press our defence and it's suddenly flap city (not just flappy keeper). In this context, I can see your point about Branthwaite - even though I rated him a 4 and “clearly not ready”, a night's sleep = maybe he needs a run to get ready.

Gordon I felt had a mixed bag last night. When Gray was on (taking players over to his side of pitch) Gordon looked very dangerous in the spaces he was getting. However, for me he faded badly by coming deep and too wide at times after the break. Still should be one of the first names on the sheet moving forward.

Shame your last comment about Frank spoiled what was an otherwise good post. It's not just the man, but the team he assembles. I think the back room is excellent, and far exceeds the likely coaching setup we'd have got with Duncan.

They can't turn water to wine, we need to judge in the summer. If we don't survive it'll have very little to do with him or his 24-hour window, and everything to do with the utter shit show over the last 7 months.

Trying to end on positive note, “Get the ball forward quickly, and hard press them instead” should indeed be the motto. As painful as it is to say it, this is thd secret sauce of the red shite. Aggressive front-foot football, trying to win, not simply “not lose”.

The injury(?) to Mina made no difference; in fact, he was having a stinker of a game and definitely wasn't missed after he went off. The young lad Branthwaite added a bit more calmness and control to the defence (?) which panic under any sustained attack.

I'm afraid we are nor equipped to fight this relegation battle... 'fight' is the word and we are in a very short supply of that: fairies in defence and midfield.

I mentioned Colman earlier having a poor game. I thought he did... but one thing he doesn't lack is fight plus effort. Unfortunately, his other talents have faded and he is not the player he was. Other players are mentally weak and feeble.

I'll be going on Saturday, hoping the crowd will entice some effort, pride and determination out of these players... but, in the long run, I doubt there will be enough of that to sustain this battle to stay up.

I said on the other thread that the injury to Gray really impacted the way Lampard is trying to get us to play.

I don't know what you think but I am beginning to think that Mina isn't the full shilling, he goes down and stays down then when the physios come on he is trying to convince them he is fit enough to stay on.

Mina seems can't play more than once a week without picking up an injury, unless of course he is playing for Colombia.

Given our injury crises, I wonder how Lampard will set us up against Leeds? No Doucoure, Godfrey, Gray or Mina. Let's hope Mykolenko passes the covid tests as we can't have Townsend operating as a wingback.

Every set-piece – and I do mean every set-piece – go long, go diagnol and get to the edge of the opponents box quicker.

From there it's one touch pass, cross or shoot.

Newcastle have Saint-Maximin; Leeds have Raphina; we have Gray. Players who can create and score goals all by themselves.

Gordon – a player who many fans said will never be good enough for the Premier League just last season – is now one of our best and most consistent players. That's great for him and he deserves a run in the team and the plaudits but it also tells me a lot about our squad.

Time for Frank to be frank and sort the player's out whilst not leaving our weakest links (defenders) to be the key to playing and unlocking the opposition.

If we are to survive, then it will be because Van de Beek, Alli, Patterson and Mykolenko make a positive difference and help the likes of Pickford, Gray, Richarlison, Townsend and Calvert-Lewin to get us out of this mess.

He would be ideal in a League One relegation fight but time and time again I read that he must start because of his experience, his leadership, his spirit to win. He is past it! Gomes is past it! Delph is past it! Holgate cannot do it! None of these players are good enough but our managers keep playing them.

Then we all come on here and discuss what went wrong. We have some players who simply are no good anymore. 3 started last night. We start with a team that has 8 capable players, week-in & week-out.

On Saturday, if Frank Lampard knows anything, Patterson should start. Branthwaite should start. Van de Beek should start. Take the lame out of the equation. There are 3 fresh players. Now pick your remaining 8...

- Horror tackle goes unpunished

- More VAR woes for the Reds

- Injury hit Red robbed by referee

This is the real story from last night. We were robbed. Absolutely robbed.

Yes we were also a bit shit but we were robbed. That should be the inquest and the club and players should be publicly leading that inquest.

We are far too accepting of this shit on and off the pitch!

I don't think it was that they weren't good enough to start. Lampard was rewarding the players for what looked on paper a decent performance on Saturday.

As I said earlier, Brentford were really poor, and last night the usual suspects reverted to type.

I'd expect the changes to happen on Saturday. The very short honeymoon period is over, and Lampard needs to start getting ruthless with his team selection.

I thought Van de Beek looked decent when he came on.

He looked like Carlo and then Benitez largely ignored his input in the dugout. Now he's even further down the pecking order... What's the point of him staying?

Can't decide if it's our defence or midfield that's letting things down now. I think it's the defence although Gomes was at fault for one of the goals.

When I saw Gomes was starting I feared the worst. My memory isn't what it was but the last away game I can remember him doing really well in was the Anfield derby when Pickford gifted them a winner. He's too pedestrian and let's players breeze past him then continually gives stupid fouls. He has a good game every now and again and people start eulogising. 1 good game in 6 isn't good enough is it and that ratio is generous. We have so many players like that.

How many managers does it take to see that we are woeful at defending corners and free kicks? Surely that can be practised and players can be drilled. Pickford has been decent over the past few seasons but I don't think he commands his penalty area enough. Keane and Holgate are atrocious. I thought Townsend was terrible last night but the injuries did us for being able to make tactical substitutions.

Sad to see but Coleman is past it. We signed Pattinson. Play him. Otherwise, why have we bought him?

As others have said, we don't have the players to play around at the back. Always amazes me that before a game, they can cone off a pitch that's 1/4 of a full size pitch or smaller and players can control a ball, move it, find space etc. Give them more space and time in an actual game and they lose possession so easily.

I've worried about relegation in the past but have always thought we'd somehow get out of it. I've had the sinking feeling since the Watford debacle that we are going down this season and it has grown by the week. There's a lack of belief through the squad and players seem resigned to it. Lampard and his coaches have a lot to ponder. The Villa, Newcastle and Leeds games were big chances to turn things around and we're fast running out of so-called winnable games. Very worrying.

But even when Guardiola took over a far better squad than we have he initially had problems implementing his style of play; now every club in the Premier League are trying to copy his style of play. The problem is that most other clubs don't have the type of players to play that system.

To play that system you have to firstly have players good enough at the back to play that passing out from the back style, clearly last night Mina and Holgate put their team in trouble with a poor selection of passes, which led us to concede free-kicks in and around our 18-yard box.

While I think had Ancelotti stayed and had the funds which I think was clearly the issue that made him look elsewhere, he would have bought players to change the style of play he had been playing.So, seeing as we wanted a more open and attacking team to watch, then we have to back Lampard and his coaches in trying to change our style.

I think when we lost Gray and then Mina it really changed how Lampard wanted us to play. Just imagine if Newcastle had Allan Saint-Maximin and Lascelles injured in the first half, does anybody really believe the result would have been the same.

Being given the the Everton job must be like Thatcher sending you to turn British Leyland round in the 80's.

The fact that some clubs - well one actually - benefit hugely from debatable decisions week-in-week-out, VAR or no VAR, leads me to believe that the product, i.e. Premier League is all important and it shall be protected by whatever means necessary.

Seeing Everton in the Championship would suit many of the movers and shakers at the FA and Premier League, and given the times we live in, they might actively seek officials to be more lenient towards our opponents and treat our fouls etc to become bookable offences. If this is happening or has happened, it won't be a good enough reason to cite for our potential relegation, but it could certainly be seen as very unhelpful in the round.

Returning to what Tony "A" said, I also think Mina threw in the towel. The old twinge on the hip(an old injury) and very convenient. He was being torn inside-out by Saint-Maximin and simply wanted out.

He is a basket case and has let us down many times with his weird attitude. He went down and held his head with no contact on that area.

He has been touted on here as our best centre half – I would have all of the others before him.

For me, our goalie unsettled the whole defence with his nerves. The Geordies got to him and he instigated many of the crazy passing in our penalty area that undid us or gave possession away.

He pulled off a few grand saves but this lot need a big monster who comes out (without clonking his own men) and commands his area.

Regardless of his keeping plusses and minuses, he is an unsettling presence.

It goes against the grain but at the moment I'd rather play that risky game in and around attack and midfield. Lose it there and the defence is in a better to position to be seeing what's happening in front of them and organise accordingly. Look for the little pieces of good luck further up the field rather than so far back. It's a question of where you take the risks.

We can't and shouldn't park the bus. Defensively we aren't secure enough. We need to go forward quickly and play percentage football in terms of territory. Keep the ball away from our box as much as we can by being direct. Use the young full backs (if fit and selected) to press high and hit the channels or the forwards on a gamble.

As a purist of the beautiful game, I hate myself for saying a lot of that. I'm almost describing the other lot and how they play

Robert, I know what you're saying. Ultimately we were well beaten but once again, the officials were questionable both ways. I think it was the challenge on Gordon you refer to? Difficult to see being up in the heights of probably the highest building in Newcastle but no doubting it was a shocking tackle that went relatively unpunished.

The players had our backing last night. Maybe they couldn't hear us given how high & far away we were, but ultimately, once they cross the line its down to them. Not me. Not that unwavering support. Not the manager. Them.

Sorry, still raw & tired. If I could hate them I would. I can't.

However, we can't just rely on getting a decent Ref, not sure that there is one in the Premier League. Apart from Saint-Maximin the Barcodes are nothing special, yet we made them look like they wanted to escape relegation more than we did!

His problems mount with the injuries much like they did with Rafa. We haven't had a settled formation all season and what happened early on yesterday just scuttled whatever plan Frank had.

Gray may not have been ready to start and perhaps shouldn't have.

Despite the Bees game it's obvious we are in an almighty slump and anything less than 3 points against Leeds would be a catastrophe

We cannot seem to defend anything these days and whilst Holgate is piss poor at times the others have been all at seas too.

Solidity as a unit especially in midfield where the tackling and closing down is very weak needs to be sorted soon by Frank as most teams are having far too easy.

There is tendency on ToffeeWeb to eulogise the players who aren't playing. A few weeks back Gbamin was the answer despite never having had an extended run out. Now it's Patterson who has played just a dozen senior games for Rangers and would gave been up against Saint Maximin! Next people will be advocating a return for Iwobi!

I don't know what the best combination of players is - I'll leave that up to Lampard, but what I am certain about is that it doesn't include Gomes as a starter and Coleman is still preferable to Holgate.

As I said in a previous post, we have not got the fighters in this team to keep us up and God help us in the championship where the going is even harder, we'll have to get their mam's to take them home, pitiful!!

Mike Walker's woeful team also had six more points than our current side has, although 21 matches was merely the halfway stage of the season in 1994 and that team ended up with 44 points.

I agree most of our players as you say are paralysed by fear, which comes from winning 1 league game in 14. But how Lampard removes that fear, I don't know.

Maybe we need a psychologist like Peters who worked for Liverpool at one time and now also works with Ronnie O'Sullivan, the snooker player.

Many of this squad are on their 3rd manager and they have had to adapt to different styles. I don't think they know whether they are coming or going.

I know Lampard has said he wants to keep it simple and not overload them tactically. But there are very few of this squad that seem able to assess a game as it's going on and change things accordingly.

The worry is, for the next few games, he will have limited choice and defensively, with injuries to Godfrey and Mina, it reduces his choices a lot. I know there is always a clamour to throw young players in but doing that can also destroy a young player if it goes horribly wrong.

Where I am confident is I think we have a lot of quality in both the manager and his coaches, and I am hopeful they will be able to steer us to safety.

Then, if they achieve that, by the summer, they will know who fits their style of play and who doesn't, also they will have a pre-season which he hasn't had the luxury of this season.

The players and management should be screaming blue murder for the sending off.

It gave NCL players and fans a massive lift to keep Shelvey on the pitch. They knew they'd won the referee.

There should now be a media outcry - a public campaign to get Shelvey banned and that referee off our fixtures.

This is how the RS operate.

This club is too nice, too old fashioned and miles off the pace as a result.

Again like the Catalan, he seems obsessed with short passing and not so obsessed with defensive tactics at set pieces. As a consequence, I can see him going down as only the second manager in history to dump Everton into the second tier.

I'd forego all the Russian millions to have Moyes in the managerial chair at this time even if BB was ic transfers !

We have 17 games to save the season, nothing is going to change, not the players nor the manager, accept that, and we may find a way to help them out, don't accept it and we'll continue to go round in ever-increasing circles of fear and loathing, which will likely help what many find to be unthinkable into becoming a nailed-on certainty.

Paul

By fancy stuff, do you mean stuff like finding a team-mate with a pass? Apparently Townsend, Keane and Holgate gave the ball away 45 times between them last night. How can professional players at any level be so abject?

Our strengths are almost all in attack - Richarlison, Gordon, DCL & Gray are our best players. Townsend is decent, DvdB looks a gifted footballer, even Dele might show the odd flash of brilliance coming off the bench eventually. The rest are fucking useless or injured. Sure, we'll get turned over by teams like Newcastle, and probably Leeds, but hopefully we'll get wins against the likes of Brentford - more passive teams who let us play a bit.

We just need to survive this season, and hope that Lampard can get rid of the shite and bring in some players in midfield and defence who can play his kind of football.

Because, crap though we were, we would have won that game with a stronger referee against 10 men.

And we have to go three in midfield. We simply have to not get overrun in the middle of the pitch.

I'd set up this way for Leeds, in a 4-2-1-3 with two holding midfielders and one advanced midfielder who can drop and help in midfield when not in possession:

Picks
Coleman - Keane - Branthwaite - Mylo
VDB - Allan
Dele
Gordon - DCL - Ritchie

I'd bring Gomes on for Dele to unlock the thing if Dele falters. Do NOT put him deep, he gives away a bunch of silly fouls in dangerous positions.

I'd tell the front three to frankly almost never track back, and look to be the outlet when we win possession so we can move forward and attack.

Defending with this squad will simply result in slow-bleed death, with a bunch of 0-1 / 0-2 losses.

Mason Holgate is absolute shite, but the one thing I remember him doing exceedingly well was playing defensive mid under Duncan. If DVB or Allan start to tire, maybe (??) put him there as our options are so limited with the injuries we've sustained.

Have to throw the kitchen sink at every opponent. This Leeds game, I think, is going to be a wide open track meet.

The 2 own goals were a rare & odd thing to happen (the quickest 2 in PL history) and the game really came to life for Newcastle roared on by their crowd.

To be fair to them, they did to us what we've often done to teams coming to Goodison - it was very much like playing the crowd as it was the team and once we were out of options due to the forced subs, the game was up.

They pressed us hard and I thought the game was so frantic from start to finish that it absolutely suited the home team.

Lampard was already up against it, and those 2 subs killed us. There was no way to change things and get DCL on as our midfield was being overrun as usual. Without Doucoure we're wide open in there and teams know it. It isn't rocket science.

I still agree with some posters who allude to us having enough in the squad to stay up, but it does feel bleak today. Still, beat Leeds at home and things will look a little rosier. It's tight, but I still feel we'll move up the table and eventually finish 10th or so.

We have recently lost to three of the bottom four teams and conceded 10 goals in those three games and still there are people convinced that there are three worse teams than us. Unbelievable.

We have a team full of sicknotes with no fighting qualities at all. We are gonners in this league!

I even fear for our Championship survival given that every game down there will be like a cup final for the other teams and our players (the poor ones that survive the fire sale) just won't have the fighting qualities necessary.

Gutted but it's all so predictable.

Welcome to the Bramley More car park!

On whether to attack or park it the crux of the matter is how we lose possession thus creating easy transitions for opponents but more fundamentally how we get it out of our half. Lumping it forward is a fool's game because we don't win second balls in my opinion. When we attack there should be some sort of acceptance of an attack that has stalled and just take a shot or play the ball to an area and get into defensive shape.

The false dawn of Brentford has promoted some thinking that we could just outscore the opponents. I'm not sure we have that kind of firepower, we still need to control the tempo because of our lack of pace. Too much unproductive attacking and we offer way too many transitions to the other side. This is why Richy and DCL's lack of chemistry is so frustrating, we don't have obvious preferences we are working toward in our scheme. We get the ball into the final third and stall way too much which leaves us backpassing and pantpissing on the back line.

Were there any decent Sales on ? :-)

I know that sounds a bit daft, what's new for Me ? But, there is little football to talk about !

Yes, the 97/98 squad was hopeless, but we still had the likes of Waggy, Craig Short, Don Hutchison, Graham Stuart and Big Dunc. Besides Andy Hinchcliffe and Gary Speed in the 1st half of that season. I'd take any of those players in their prime over the likes of spineless characters like Andre Gomes, Michael Keane, and Mason Holgate.

I remember going the derby at Anfield that season and the team being very unlucky not to get the win with Madar missing a sitter. In the end we got the 1-1 draw. But the difference is, the team still turned up and you felt like you could get a result. There was still fight even though there were some woeful players like Claus Thomsen and Mitch Ward.

Of course the current team is better on paper but I don't see anyone who cares about the cause apart from Allan, Gordon and Seamus...and his legs went 2 seasons ago.

H either he tested positive or negative or am I missing something?

Assuming it's a PCR, PCR tests are run through twice and it could be that one result was positive and the other negative. It could be that the tube wasn't sealed properly, or there was leak or that the label wasn't readable and was rejected. Also, it could be that he has had Covid in the last three months and in the NHS at least, they won't PCR someone who has been positive in the last ninety days as the testing process “amplifies” dead virus strands and can give a false positive. In short, a whole bunch of possibilities.

A far cry from my 1988 (I think) visit to St James' Park when there was only one stand - the only one remaining that has Newcastle United labelled as you look over to the view of the city centre as you say on to the left from where the away fans sit.

1988 and them with that Brazilian, Mirandinha, unique in the English game at the time. The one stand I mentioned, an open ended Gallowgate end terrace. Virtually nothing on the side opposite the only proper stand and us crammed into the remnants of terracing that sat in the corner underneath what I stood above last night. Alongside a temporary Golf like scaffolding stand behind the goal.

I have to say, it looks impressive on the cameras and from the outside, but I hope we add more character to our new stadium just as Tottenham have done. Scratch the surface and St James' is pretty soulless, characterless and a bit of a concrete monstrosity.

With 141 steps and no escalators as the 2 blokes in front of me counted!! Then make your way up more if you're in the back rows!

Second only to Koln / Cologne Cathedral for those who know that climb!

Frank now needs to face reality and attack at home and park the bus away, horrible but necessary.

You could queue for the lift, Danny! Wimp! (this wimp was tempted to take the lift last night!).

Off topic but Alan @308, you reminded of my trials at Bellefield. I was small for my age at the time and it was quite intimidating playing with lads the same age who could have easily have had a moustache and a passport, even at 12 years old.

Terry Darracott was brilliant. He reassured and coached; really put me at rest as I was nervous as hell. I forget the full name now and don't want to Google but the Director (I suppose that's what we'd call it now) was a true gent now as well. Ray??? Anyone?

My Dad didn't even watch me. He was too busy marvelling at the blue clad pool table in the canteen and wanting to try and catch time with Howard Kendall.

I always regret never taking up the offer to go back for more games and trials. I was so intimidated by being the small lad even though I eventually grew into a 6 foot and athletic football playing centre back at my own level.

I guess that helps explain my occasional rantings about the academy, grass roots and youth coaching. You can never tell at 12 how a player will turn out, both technically, physically and in terms of mentality.

I don't mean to labour the point, however, according to Gary Parkinson (442) published 4 March 2009:

English football's first Brazilian, Mirandinha came to Newcastle 22 years ago

I looked down the list of Newcastle players who are Brazilians and can't find any that match your description, although I wondered if the Geordie habit of referring to people as "Marra" may have sounded like they were talking about a Brazilian player in the 70s.

Newcastle Players

This team needs drilling to death with, pass, move, pass…. I think Frank has some top coaches and will get us to safety but the weaklings need to be weeded out in the summer.

It's been a hard day thinking about Everton, but the positive (if that's the right word) is that these players couldn't give Ferguson or Lampard, that bounce, that new managers usually get, and hopefully this turns out to be a blessing in disguise for our newest manager, who must definitely now know, what an enormous task he's been given.

He did indeed
GK 1 Scotland Ronnie Simpson
RB 2 England Bobby Cowell
LB 3 Northern Ireland Alf McMichael
RH 4 England Joe Harvey (c)
CH 5 Scotland Frank Brennan
LH 6 Chile Ted Robledo
OR 7 England Tommy Walker
IR 8 Wales Billy Foulkes
CF 9 England Jackie Milburn
IL 10 Chile George Robledo
OL 11 Scotland Bobby Mitchell
Manager:
England Stan Seymour

By the way Danny – you're not from Baycliff are you?

The manager has now seen how bipolar we can be and this has to be addressed. I fear it won't be easy but I am hopeful that this set of players may be able to scrape enough points to get the job done.

I think that having Van de Beek as the creative hub in the middle could be pivotal for the remainder of the season.

I never trusted Rafa or Carlo to pick the right players. I feel we now have a strong enough coaching team to choose the right team. So I'll wind my neck in and trust the coaches. Can't wait for Saturday, albeit Leeds will be tough.

In that derby game, a night match, Liverpool were lucky to get a draw. I think Paul Ince got the equaliser near the end of the game. Gareth Farrelly was the other central midfielder with Claus Thomsen, that sitter by Micky Madar was unbelievable – he could have blown it in. Duncan got our goal.

I fear Saturday...

It was also the game where Dunc body slammed Ince to the floor and Ince did nothing.

That was a really unbalanced side and if the rumours were true, Howard was really struggling with his alcoholism, but in spite of that, don't you think there was still more character and fight in that relatively poor squad compared to our current crop?

Once you've gained the advantage, don't be rushed into making poor decisions.

If injured, stay down, stay on the pitch and waste as much time as possible.

If a teammate is injured, kick the ball out of play as far away from goal as is easily possible.

So what of the goals? First one: we gave them the ball near our own danger area, played a weak pass that went straight to their player, ending in the resulting corner for the first goal.

Second goal: Keane jumping for a ball too high to get a clear header on, gets the slightest touch that stops Branthwaite right behind him from clearing.

Third goal: an absolute shocker both from the goalkeeper and wall positioning.

I have a lot of time for Branthwaite, he started to get in the game after a shaky start, early doors he was struggling to even bring a simple pass under control, but like I say, he grew as the game went on.

The way Leeds attack on Saturday, we need to go three in midfield and try to give some cover to our defence. It could be a long afternoon, if Frank does not get our defence up to speed.

Pickford
Patterson Braithwaite Keane Mykolenko
Allan
Gordon Van de Beek Gomes Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin

Could be anybody you care to mention instead of Gomes though. I picked him as I feel with Allan sitting behind him, he could create for the two wide men. I definitely feel we need the two new full-backs' youthful energy for this one though.

We have the most spineless Everton team I have seen in my 50 years of supporting Everton. Alli – I would love to know how much we are paying this has-been. If we have Allan, at least he tries, but he is past his prime and is too slow for the pace of the Premier League; Gomes is in the same boat but without the effort.

Can someone explain why we paid £10M for Patterson and don't play him? This is the problem with Everton – our recruiting set-up is a fucken joke. A Director of Football should have priority before a manager, to try and sort this club out.

We can't even beat the teams below us, how the hell are we going to beat the teams above us? And now most clubs know if you pressurize Everton, they fall to pieces.

I wouldn't play Keane or Holgate on Saturday or ever again. They have proven time and again to be football Chuckle Brothers. I'd rather stick Branthwaite there alongside Gbamin, Kenny or even Harry Tryer. Yes, they'd probably be crap but at least it would be trying something different to learn it's crap instead of doing it for the hundredth time.

Michael Keane seems like a smart, pleasant man but he's no good at football. Mason, I don't know about his character but he's no good at football either. Pay them off, put them in some kind of vocational training to be welders or something. They've failed for years and years and years as footballers and I can't stomach ever seeing that duo again.

I cannot envisage a situation when those two play where I will ever feel confident of a win, even if we surround them with the Dixie Dean all-time historic all-stars. If I see them in the team on Saturday, then by Sunday I will be a grave man.😬💣💀

I remember it because of the story of Terry Darracott asking for his autograph while waiting in the tunnel to come out for a game against them. Anyone else remember that story?

As Brian (#326) has said, probably Ray Minshull but the mention of Howard Kendall was interesting as the Academy was closed as a cost-cutting exercise and, I think, only reopened at Joe Royle's insistence, which is why a lot of Evertonians were lost to the Dark Side.

I would get rid of the academy again. All the money wasted on Unsie and his mates churning out League Two subs. We end up buying Rangers Under-23 subs for £15 million to raise the level of our academy. We haven't produced a quality first-team player since Osman. 20 years of waste... shut it down.

Anthony Gordon? If he'd gone to Tranmere or Preston, we could've picked him up for about £500k — about Unsies annual wage for one year — not the multiple years he's acted like Morgan Feeney and Co would be Prem players.

Gomes was Man of the Match against Brentford.

Ray Minshull was in charge of The Youth Development at Everton in the early eighties and maybe before that time.

It was indeed Ray Minshull. Me and my mate would get the bus up to West Derby from town and watch the training.

We would see the odd ball go over the fence and then we would door knock all of the houses and tell the person who answered that Ray Minshull had sent us to ask if any balls had come over into the garden. We got a couple of balls one day and scarpered. We would have been around 13 years old then and that was late '70s.

The balls were well worn but we would use them for a kick around on the small field at St Joseph's (Bishop Gods) School.

Must admit, one of the highlights of those trips up to Bellfield was meeting Bill Shankly and having a little chat with him. As you know he lived in a house facing those that backed on to Bellefield.

Got to see the great Duncan McKenzie close up and showing the rest of the team how to dribble. One of the saddest sights was always seeing David Smallman on crutches. There was an unlucky fella.

I too am not a fan of the modern system and most know my views. It's in need of a total overhaul and restructure (just like the club). But so is our grassroots football (sorry!!). We shouldn't be bringing kids into the elite system until at least 14 or 16. Leave them in their natural environment but professional clubs take more of and interest and sponsor local teams with finance and coaching. Have satellite feeder clubs.

I used to see the Brentford youth teams as they trained on the same pitches as my Hayes & Yeading team did. Mud drenched quagmires; don't start me!

Brentford scrapped their academy and adopted the B-Team model. It's served them well if you consider where they were and where they are now.

A well thought-out plan and strategy. And built on Danish foundations. Hafnia!

As I've said before, make it more open and accessible. We talk about being a community club. Well, focus that intent on supporting local football with the ambition of developing local footballers.

When I next go to Schalke, I will be allowed to walk around the academy pitches watching the development teams.

The next time I go to watch Everton, the gates of Finch Farm will be well and truly locked and inaccessible to the likes of me.

I moved to the St. Josephs area in 1960 to the new flats in Chaucer St. we moved all the way from Everton Brow!! It's completely changed down there now the whole area and is very quiet compared to the days of Holly St, Gerard Gardens, Gerard Crescent and The Four Squares, what characters came from that area including the many Italian families who lived around there. Happy days Pete, for me anyway.

They were indeed great times and a great place to grow too being 5 minutes from town and a half an hour walk to Goodison.

Wish I could be back there for the Leeds game because this fragile team need all the support they can get. A must win game I think we'd all agree !

We wanted to scatter my Dad's ashes and the hire of a private vessel from the Marina was extortionate but someone recommended the Ferry which my Dad knew well (day trips to New Brighton before the war the nearest thing to a holiday).

They were great and arranged for the rear of the ferry to be cordoned off for family and the boat stopped mid-Mersey to allow the ashes to be cast overboard.

Unfortunately, the wind turned and we all got a lung full of my Dad which he would have found funny. Some of him did make it into the river and hopefully washed ashore in Ireland where his grandparents came from.

Hope you get better luck with the weather.

I remember that pub very well, it was known as “Mick Whittie's” when I was a kid, maybe the name of a previous manager.

One of the barmaids was the mother of Michael Holliday, the famous singer in the fifties and sixties. I saw Everton get beat by West Ham in the cup on TV in there.

There has always been a police station around that area, Rose Hill off Richmond Row, then St Anne Street where it is now and further along when they build the new one in Cazneau Street.

There was plenty of reasons to have a Police Station in that area years ago but it is pretty quiet around there now, I suppose they have got to put them somewhere!!

I was brought up in Gerard Crescent where as a kid they filmed a 50s movie called "Violent Playground". I believe it had some big actors in it.

Most of the family lived around there, the bull ring, Soho street and Langsdale street.

It was rough but I remember it fondly. I had the pleasure of telling John Bailey and Antony Evans which sides of the regular 13-a-sides they could join in with.

They all took seconds to the local characters who appeared in the film, Rocky Riley a legend from the Four Squares, Johnny Salkeld another from the Four Squares, Harold Hughes known everywhere and a few more who found fleeting fame as “Film Stars” although they were still talking about it for the rest of their lives.

Some are still going and when the film was on TV a few months ago, they relived that fame from long ago with some of us taking the piss by asking for their autographs.

Jay, you must also remember Johnny Genelese who had the chip shop in Christian Street, famous for the best chips in the world!!

David Macallum

And to the Gerard expats, brilliant chat.

Not many people messed with Harold. He was known as the Cock of Liverpool for many years even when the Conte gang tried to impose themselves.

There was another horrible hardcase called Eddie Palmer who was terrified of Harold and he eventually got his come uppance.

Sounds like Fat Harold could teach Mina a thing or two

Yes I know and knew a lot of the descendants of the Italian families who lived in Little Italy.

I had a chat to Mick Butcher in Ned Kelly's a couple of weeks ago, knew Rocky Bacchino, a tiler and a real character. Joe Muscatelli, who played for Liverpool Boys, a nice genuine lad who died at an early age; his auntie Tina lived in the Four Squares. Frank Bacchino is still going – he was a good mate of Joe Royle and his dad,

I went to a lady's funeral on Wednesday, the mother of Anthony Valerio whose dad was a relation of Dom Vairo, possibly his brother... All these Italian people who came to Liverpool were mostly hard working solid stock and grafted hard to earn an honest living and most of resented being associated with The Mafia even though it was banter. They didn't like it because they knew how the Mafia had plagued their own in America and Italy, robbing them of their hard earned money.

As Pete (347) says, great days with happy memories of those days not far from the city centre.

Heartwarming to hear about decent people for a change👍Keep well as we navigate through this desperate patch of form!