More than 20,000 sign petition opposing Stake sponsorship

Be interesting to know what these 20k people think is an appropriate shirt sponsor?

Paul. Maybe NEC again. Or as the shower labelled it No European Cup. Courtesy of them.

I've never had a bet in my life nor drank or smoked or indulged recreational drugs but if people are informed enough and still want to indulge surely it's their business and no one elses.

It's attention seeking busybodying protesting a legit business that serves an established market. By all means protest but target the source not the symptom - parents, guardians and educators who allow kids to get involved in the first place.

If gambling is as bad as this bloke Ben Melvin claims then shouldn't there be a vigorous campaign to ban all advertising?

After all, these children and vulnerable people are not just watching Everton play. They are watching telly where I admit to being shocked at the number of gambling adverts (mostly on Sky, I think...).

At least betting shops have gone into steady decline since 2014 but there were still a heck of a lot in 2019. (Has covid dealt them a final blow?) What's to protect these vulnerable people when they are out in the High Street?

In fact, why isn't there a campaign to ban gambling altogether? Zero tolerance. That's the only way you are going to prevent the destruction and devastation talked of here.

It's a bit like the Yankeeland gun debate. Similar rationale about protecting the freedom of the majority, along with this tacit acceptance of the price involved to the relative minority who get hurt.

Guns, drugs, gambling, smoking, drinking, prostitution... things the human race have struggled with since time immemorial.

Nice one, Barry @3. You went where I was too fearful of going.

What's that phrase? "Personal Responsibility"???

No, it seems what people really want is the Nanny State to look after them.

Barry @3. You've never drank smoked or taken drugs. How can you get through watching Everton then?

It's naive bordering on disingenuous to suggest that personal responsibility solves the issues around gambling and sponsorship.

Modern gambling has almost no similarity to "traditional" gambling (walking into a bookies on the High Street). Online gambling companies utilise gamification to hook and retain customers, and they highly value attracting young demographics to their platforms. That's why they sponsor football clubs - it's to attract teenagers and young people. It's not because the gambling companies like football or Everton.

Online gambling is a massive problem and is only going to get worse. Personally, I don't want it anywhere near Everton Football Club, but I accept that it is already a pervasive influence.

And in terms of who I'd rather see sponsor us, or the type of company I "approve" of? Well, the likes of Google, Oracle, HP, Lenovo etc would raise no eyebrows with me.

I never bought Hafnia meat or Chang beer or used SportPesa or dealt with NEC so why do some do-gooders think I am going to be hooked by Stake?

I, like all Evertonians, have a mind of my own and don't like someone who obviously can't resist the urge to take advantage of whoever sponsors Everton FC telling me it is bad.

Would the Church of England or The Vatican be good sponsors? A lot of abused children would tell you No.

If McDonald's sponsored us, would we all be walking round in 5XL shirts within a couple of months? I think not.

I never had a Nanny – now it appears I have thousands of them.

I wonder how many of the 20,000 people who condemn Everton listen to talkSport, watch Sky Sports, or watch the Blues on some dodgy stream or digi box?

All these TV sports providers rely heavily on gambling advertising. If you feel that strongly, don't watch any of these sports providers, vote that way.

Alcohol causes as much pain and suffering as well as physical health problems as gambling, yet all the ale houses around Goodison are chocker on match days. Should alcohol and alcohol advertising get banned as well?

Such nonsense, it's a life choice. No-one is forcing anyone to bet, it's your decision and your decision alone.

Why do people not take responsibility for their actions and instead look to blame someone or something else when the wheels fall off?

Wokery gone mad!

in other words... 20,000 people would rather see the club jump off the FFP cliff, for the sake of Victorian era "moral values".

I'm not a gambler, other than risking my marriage over Everton on occasion, but I'm a believer in freedom of informed choice.

I don't recall vegetarian Evertonians being up in arms at us promoting Bacon with our first shirt sponsor.

I think the most controversial it got with NEC was a mini-campaign to have them change the colours of their lettering in the Programme and around the stadium as it was Red!

Tobacco sponsorship has pretty much been driven out of sport. Alcohol is viewed dimly and not allowed on junior replica strips and probably on its way out. It seems betting is next on the list.

I've never smoked in my life, never taken drugs and don't really gamble. Through choice. I do enjoy a drink. Again, through personal choice. If you don't like it, don't do it.

We do seem to live in a very outraged society. I'll make my own choices regardless of what Everton or anyone else wears on the front of their shirt.

Declan @7,

Online shopping is addictive (my wife can vouch for that). So should we stop that?

You can't now bet with credit cards, Declan, so how is it a massive problem? Sure, you could lose your money in the bank or your cash wages if you're daft enough.

Billions of punters gamble every day worldwide without problems – it's the tiny minority that it seems to me lack common sense.

What about credit cards? Are you going to make those off-limits because some can't control their spending?

Woke bellends. What next, ban Crisps cos 1 in 1,000 people can't stop themselves at a grab bag? For fuck's sake.

People, individually, should decide which way they go in all aspects of life, talking within legal behaviour of course. Governments cannot control each and every life and neither should they.

If I smoke too much or drink too much or even gamble too much, it is my decision. Am I suckered into smoking or drinking or gambling too much by adverts? Well, No!

I don't smoke but I like a drink and I like a flutter on the lottos but not overboard. If people can't control this, then they either reap the reward or suffer the consequences. What is it about human nature that makes us want to control other people's lives?

Frankly, if Stake want to pay a substantial dosh in sponsorship of Everton, then so be it. If people want to gamble their life's earnings away, then so be it.

Life is a gamble, get used to it!

I'll put my head above the parapet – and no doubt I'll get the flak (which is why social media opinions are so imbalanced).

Everton FC has deliberately sought the moral high ground, whether it be the People's Club, EitC or other commendable initiatives. I love to read and hear about our club doing good (it can even go some way to alleviating some of the pain of supporting the team on the pitch).

Seeking sponsorship from a betting company compromises that morality and goes against all that good work. The next time the club or its supporters seek moral approval, they will be considered hypocrites. I know £10M is £10M, but we regularly waste more than that on appalling player purchases.

The closest I get to gambling is a lottery ticket every now and again. To drinking, I sort of don't unless in company. I drank more wine when I was in France than any time in my life, but that stopped on Covid.

But, I get the freedom of choice thing, personal responsibility etc... however, when the club we support market a large part of its corporate presence to EitC, whose being in part is to help people deal with the impact of addiction, a statement would expect to be made by not seeking the sponsorship of a gambling company whose activities contribute to a serious community problem of addition.

Can we not see the charge of hypocrisy?

Alan, you beat me to posting the same standpoint by one second!

I believe you're old enough to have a mind of your own, and are not dictated by a sponsor on a jersey. I'm not a gambling man, never smoked, enjoy a few drinks, and when I watched the Guinness Six Nations, I didn't run to the pub for a pint.

Totally over the top, I'd better not turn on Sky TV because of all the advertising.

Great minds, Christine.

I wonder how would 20,000 would have coped had we got relegated to the Sky Bet Championship?

We have had similar discussions recently, how are betting companies immoral, Alan?

They're in the entertainment business, nobody is forced to use them. The perception is that everyone loses in the end which is almost correct, but it costs money for entertainment wherever you seek it, you don't expect your money back when you go to the cinema, do you?

Although I have been tempted to ask for my money back watching Everton sometimes...

I think we're in danger of switching from a football club with a noticeable, charitable social conscience to a charitable social conscience that runs a minor football club.

I guess reading most posts that the majority don't care who sponsors the club, which is fine, so let's not hear any indignation of Newcastle's murderous owners, their fans just want the money, not the politics, so it's okay.

When the world is led by such onerous people, all quite despicable, to hold high office, then anything goes. Take your choice of leaders – from Putin to Trump, from Johnson to Kim Jong Un.

Brian@25. A little OTT don't you think?

What they gain on the roundabout, they could lose on the swings. I am talking about shirt sales.

We are all part of the same hypocrisy. Our cash in one form or another goes to someone we wouldn't cross the street to spit at.

I suppose it is up to Everton who they seek sponsorship from as part of their business plan. I don't really gamble. I put a pound each way on all the races as soon as I go to in to a meet, which is not very often, and then dally about between the main stand, parade ring and Guinness tent. I got done twice by on-course bookmakers. Never could get to grips with odds.

I am with Barry regarding responsibility. A Gambler can only be helped when they help themselves. I was in a situation where I was trying to help a gambler (and he said an alcoholic) with a way out of a debt he owed.

I knew him and his family all my life. He turned round and asked me what was my name, after I made a proposal. Rightly, it proved, I was not confident of his commitment.

Betting or gambling is not like sponsoring from tobacco companies. Betting firms are free legally to promote their brand names. Until legislation bans the promotion of gambling, there is no legal obligation on football clubs to stop promoting betting firms.

I signed this petition last week. I have first hand experience of the havoc wrecked by football gambling on a young family member. I've supported him in giving up, and attended “anniversary” GA (Gambling Anonymous) meeting with him, the stories are both heartbreaking and inspirational. People who believe it is somehow “nanny state” to restrict gambling advertising really are not aware of how pernicious it is. The clever marketing guys have done the figures, they're not giving us money for nothing, they'll believe they can get their reward by increasing their revenue at people's expense.

Evertonians have generally made up their minds and fall into two camps, those who shrug their shoulders and say so what, our club needs the money and those who are against it and see the hypocrisy around ditching SportPesa, being the People's Club and the work of EitC.

I've followed this on other sites and on Twitter and there's no doubt the vast majority don't have an issue with it and fall into the 'shrug shoulders' category. I'm not going to set about changing people's minds, I'll accept that others are entitled to their opinion.

And that for me has been the saddest aspect of social media, TW. etc - the sheer intolerance and abuse thrown at someone who dared to set up a petition and those who dared to sign it and have different views from their own.

Parimatch were our 'official betting partner' from 2020 until recently, and their name was emblazoned around the ground, in the matchday programme etc.

We probably terminated the SportPesa deal early so that we could then sign the deal with Parimatch and get a separate shirt sponsor, which makes a mockery of Denise Barrett-Baxendale's comments in 2020 when we walked away from the former. In reality, we just wanted to have our cake and eat it.

The question for those signing the petition is:

Is there much of a difference between having a gambling company as your shirt sponsor and having one as your 'official betting partner', with more insidious advertising?

Personally, I'm not keen but it's preferable to being owned by Al Qaeda or some other brutal regime.

A Public Health England study in September 2021 found an estimated 409 suicides were linked to gambling in England every year. Everton might be financially vulnerable but this sponsorship now makes the "People's Club" morally vulnerable.

Phill #31, like you, I signed the petition and like you, I have been dramatically affected by this nasty disease.

Unless you have experienced the consequences of a compulsive gambler's actions, you should not really decry those who have for wishing that their club had no part of the industry, especially when Denise Barrett-Baxendale makes us seem like total hypocrits.

I don't really think that advertising on a football shirt makes any difference other than brand awareness. It is the special offer ads on TalkSport and Sky that are the real offenders.

Don't ask me who we should have instead, every business will have a downside of some kind but, on this occasion EFC have really dirtied themselves because of comments made at the time we ditched SportPesa.

Interesting debate. I shrug my shoulders because I agree with what Dale @28 says, but then when I read Phill's post @31, it does bring home the harsh reality of what could possibly be the most dangerous addiction of them all.

I honestly think a lot of the high street bookies are only kept open because of the money that the Roulette machines are making the betting companies, Micheal?

My mate, who's not stupid, had a terrible addiction to these, and I used to tell him to just go inside the bookies, turn the machine upside down, and just smash it to pieces, but it was easy for me to say because I never had the addiction, thank god.

Pat #33, that's sad. Financial disaster can cause despondency. Yet the recent crypto crash has devastated people financially and caused documented suicides as well. Are we therefore going to protest blockchain sponsorships as well? I believe we have one of those. And don't we also have recent deals with i8.BET and Rushbet?

Look, I totally respect anti-gambling views, and I applaud the initiative behind the petition. This fellow Ben Melvin has been brilliant in getting so many signatures. These people aren't "woke bellends" or "busybodies" or hypocrites -- gambling addiction is a disease. And those agreeing with the petition don't deserve the sneering derision of people who don't get that.

But there's simply no way to eliminate sponsorships that some find morally questionable. As Leighton points out, the Championship is named for SkyBet. The Prem was long named Barclays, a bank known for rigging interest rates. As recurrently mentioned, alcohol sponsorships are everywhere in football despite that particular drug being responsible for millions of deaths every year. And multiple kit and clothing sponsors, including adidas and Nike, rely on sweatshop labor (or worse, Chinese prisoner factories) to make their stuff.

And every time we turn on the TV to watch a game, we support them. That's not hypocrisy. It's just a fact of life.

Tricky thing, shirt sponsorship, it can sometimes catch you out.

Many years ago, my son played in a local football league and his team were seeking sponsorship. A local garden centre agreed to sponsor them. The shirts came back from the printers as below:

Sankey
Home
And
Garden

We felt maybe the layout could have better for an Under-11s team, or were we being too sensitive?

This presumption of "hypocrisy" does not sit comfortably with me. It comes about because Everton, the Football Club decided to promote support programmes within the local community.

And now, we have the supreme irony that Everton – the charitable entity they created, becomes the prime rationale for their own fans seeking to deny them sponsorship funds needed for the main business function – the Football Club – to survive in a ruthless financial environment where the rules (FFP) are stacked against them!!!

Let's see if we can unpick the real hypocrisy in that one.

And if gambling addiction is the problem, but not gambling itself, then let's see the focus placed fairly and squarely on fixing that problem – if you can. Not easy because addictive personalities are not a rarity and the risk is always there. But lose this sponsorship and those addiction problems will still be there. But Everton – the Football Club – might not be.

Won't that be the supreme irony? When Everton finally go into terminal decline, you just know the club will be outlived by Everton in the Community! Mind you, at that point, we'll probably all be in need of lasting community support!

Reluctantly have to agree with most of that, Mike (36), whilst not liking it. I have to respect those that give their time trying to so something.

Two things though. Barclays have been a chosen apparent fall guy in the past, as have other banks and institutions for other supposed "Transgressions" over the years. All part of the show. Those decisions and control come from levels above.

Nike and others don't rely, they choose. Perhaps even more at the very core of things than betting etc. as the kit is actually on the athletes' feet.

Stu - like it.

Mr Gaynes, the voice of reason, as per usual.

Michael @38.

My comments about Hypocrisy weren't particularly levelled at the club, but at the market and society in general.

I totally understand that any form of addiction is a shocking disease, and many a family have been affected by it, whether it's a family member or an in law.

But as Mike says, there's no way to eliminate sponsorship, it's a part of life and taking a name of a jersey that the club are getting £10m sponsorship, in my opinion is totally over the top, and makes no difference whatsoever.

You walk to any shop in your local town, you'll walk by many a pub and betting office?

Ban Horse Racing while you're at it, Michael!

Brent. Stop tempting me or I'll be getting myself into trouble before the season starts.

Everton is an addiction. Ban Everton.

No don't. Please.

As Your Retarded American English Football Friend, I have always enjoyed the muted smugness of being a People's Club with standards that were not geared to max out what the market would bear. Always thought that was part of the package deal in punching above our weight and all that.

Without getting into the morality mumbo jumbo, I do believe we are departing from our previous "brand" space as far as the perception of the club goes. Perhaps that is just the way of the world but goddamnit that's one big fucking reason why I loved Everton. I guess I'll do some updating.

Christy, just curious since we don't have betting shops here... who approves those establishments in the UK? I assume they're heavily regulated. Is there a licensing process? Local zoning approval? Places where they can be located and where they can't? Designated hours?

I spent a fair amount of time in betting parlors in China with my father-in-law, even though gambling was officially prohibited. They don't exist anymore.

Danny, tell her you're going to see the lights. In fact, there you go - treat her with a trip to see the lights. And tell her there are four in particular you want to show her one afternoon.

Mike, anywhere you see rows of shops or stores, there could be one, in town, city and village centres. Even the occasional stand-alone. It's just the same as opening a store essentially with the extra of the required licensing. Just locally approved.

You won't tend to see them in older high quality, expensive areas or protected areas. Other than that, you're often near tripping over them nowadays. Not sure how this will pan out with the physical/online balance as time passes.

Mike 45.

As far as I can remember the betting company applies to the police for a licence. After due diligence, it is approved by a Magistrates Court. This was the case years ago.

I remember in Kirkby, there were betting shops on pub car parks. Try picking the bones out of that one.

Mike #36,

I wouldn't conflate market economics and financial disaster with addiction-induced harm and suicide. That would lead to a specious argument.

I'm not aware of any crypto currency addiction induced-suicide. I doubt there are any Public Health England studies on such a phenomenon. But there is on gambling and suicide.

I don't know anything about recent deals with i8.BET and Rushbet but it's all gambling promotion which is very lucrative for gambling and their football associates.

Other ugly "facts of life" like sweatshops and Chinese prisoner factories also depend on moral indifference.

Balance sheets can be repaired. Suicides can't.

Dale, yes!

I now also remember little booths in the dim-and-distant of early childhood but I can't recall where, apart from one or two in London in the '60s I think.

Q1 - Will more people now bet because of the shirt sponsorship?
A. Probably not.

Q2 - Will more people bet with Stake.com rather than other on-line betting companies because of the shirt sponsorship?
A. Don't know but Stake.com hope so because they are betting £10M on it.

It is not about increasing the size of the market, it's all about market share. Do Pampers advertise to encourage people to have more babies?

Michael 38# understand but Everton Football Club created the community arm of the football club as an initiative to assist people in our community as a social response to improve lives of local people who need support. That specifically includes people with addictions or where addictions are causing harm. It's a great initiative but not solely focused on a particular element such as gambling, so its more general than specific targeting of gamblers, that would undoubtedly have been hypocritical. Not splitting hairs or trying to manipulate a trite excuse for the sponsorship but sooner or later as you suggest, Everton the brand and Eitc would step on each other's toes. Business interests and social initiatives are not great bedfellows hence the difficulty the decision is for the social side of the but not for the parent company. Difficult balance morally but not for the commercial parent.

Having solved the world's problems, I am going back to sleep. 5:30 am is just too early for anything!

I was on the board of a fairly senior non-league club in the mid-80s. We managed to secure modest shirt sponsorship from a local industrial door company. Abacus Industrial Door Systems. The name was too long for the shirts so for the first few games of the 1983-84 the players ran out with AIDS emblazoned on their fronts, much to the amusement of opposing fans.

So shirt sponsorship is a tricky business.

Pat #49, crypto crashes have been officially blamed for suicides and murder-suicides in Taiwan, Turkey, South Korea and India, and currently the three busiest threads on the TerraUSD/Luna Reddit forum are about suicide threats and secondhand accounts of actual self-harm. These are people who gambled obsessively on crypto and lost family fortunes.

Yet the official partners page on Evertonfc.com lists blockchain company Chiliz/Socios.com.

Our official partners also include Parimatch and Rushbet.

So with or without the Stake deal, we are waist-deep in one form of gambling or another.

I cannot dispute the moral indifference of these sponsorships. I'm just pointing out they are a fact of life.

Mike#45 Sorry for not answering you sooner. Here in Ireland you apply for a betting license with horse racing Ireland and Irish revenue. You'd have Boyle Sports, Paddy Power, Ladbrokes in most towns.

Phil#31

I see where you are coming from and remember Paul Merson in a program identifying with similar triggers he had experienced and the ability of the online Betting companies to lead prone gamblers on.

I would have probably signed the petition on that bases had I been asked to. But I think you would agree that though a person like yourself can help, ultimately the gambler has to help themselves.

The gambler I mention has a very rich brother who has spent a fortune supporting the gamblers family and bailing him out. He has often ripped off the brother who has helped him.

He supervised a house renovation for the brother and became a alcoholic buying himself and the builders drinks in the local pub at the brother expense. He told me that at the talk I had with him.

Christine#52

A insightful comment.

Simple qualification question...

Can we put the sponsor's logo on junior kits?

Yes - ok let's do it!
No - well there are clearly some fundamental questions about the efficacy of this sponsor, so we should swerve them.

The board - specifically the CEO - wrung their hands of betting company sponsorship when we moved from SportPesa to Cazoo. Now they say we should accept an alternative with open arms. Corporate bullshit.

None of the above suggests another betting firm should be welcomed by EFC. Shout me down if you want but only do so by addressing the questions above.

Can't we go and get someone like Cadbury's to sponsor our shirts or some reputable food company?

Paul @58,

I was wondering about some of those questions and haven't followed this one very closely from afar in past years…

Can we put the sponsor's logo on junior kits?

This is a little dated (2018):

"The Football Association has intricate rules introduced in 2000 about how and where sponsorship may appear on football kit.

"The regulations prohibit the display of "any distasteful, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting, discriminatory or otherwise ethically or morally offensive message, or any political message".

"However, the only items specifically forbidden from being advertised on kits are tobacco products.

But then the same report BBC Reality Check says of the Premier League:

"There are stricter rules for clubs' youth teams consisting entirely of players under the age of 18, which may not wear shirts advertising age-restricted products such as alcohol or gambling.

"Replica shirts in junior sizes are also banned from carrying such sponsorship."

However, I can find no reference to anything like this in the Premier League Handbook (for last season) which seems to contain no limits on shirt sponsorship. But I think the answer is No.

If that is grounds to swerve Stake.com, isn't it just a continuation of the way things have been under both our previous shirt sponsors, Chang and SportPesa, neither of which have appeared on junior kits for the last ~15 years?

If we are going to ban everything that can lead to an addiction, Michael Douglas and other celebrities were treated for sex addiction.

Just saying.

As we all know, Everton FC have not been at the forefront of English Football for decades, so it makes me wonder who other than Stake were queuing up to sponsor us?

With the FFP hanging over the club, the one who offered the most may have got the nod. I suppose we could have poked a stick in the redneck nest by asking Nivea or some other manufacturer of tarts jollop to cross our palm with gold.

I can see both sides on the ethical question and I have no problem at all with people airing their views or protesting but, at the end of the day, I do think it's a pretty moot discussion.

The odds of Everton dropping this shirt sponsorship on the back of a petition are pretty much 1 in a million... hmm, maybe worth sticking a few quid on. (etc)

Incidentally Paul and Michael – there is zero chance of the Stake.com logo appearing on kids' shirts.

The rules on gambling companies promoting to Under 18s are really tight, I don't think they are even allowed to show young players (maybe even under 25s) in their marketing campaigns.

Embarrassing to have our kit yet again sponsored by a fifth rate gambling company