Start in the Boardroom and oust every one of them

You must have your phone switched off tonight to stop more Premier League clubs asking for your advice on how to run a football club and to have good times. 😃😃😃

Says it all. At best, a bumbling old Mr Magoo type fool so out of touch with the modern game it's scary. Says a lot about the rest of the board who just go along for the ride and milk it for all its worth.

There is no ambition across the board and it's not going to change unless Moshiri steps in or we supporters step in.

I have such a deep dislike for Kenwright that I even imagine him trying to work alongside Moshiri in any sale of the club so that some form of agreement can again be made for him to stay.

Now or never for a major protest to get rid of this buffoon because, if he survives this, then he's with us till death (of the club or himself).

He's played Evertonians for fools for a very long time; loads have bought it and a much smaller percentage haven't.

Either way, it's created divisions but, as I said yesterday, only a cheeky bastard could tell his own club's supporters that they have had some good times whilst knowing deep down that he sold the club's greatest ever talent because it was the only way he could survive and stay on as the owner of Everton Football Club.

It didn't matter to him that he put the club into survival mode because he knew how to play the game and always felt protected by a large portion of the fan base because of this.

The new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is flying up and it is beginning to look very impressive but the club is rotten to the core and this was amplified by our CEO's recent ramblings.

It's out on the pitch that is going to be the most important place over the next few months, so hopefully they are working overtime behind the scenes because our future is in massive doubt right now.

I'm hoping Moshiri sells very soon, knowing his investment is going to be completely in tatters if Everton get relegated. If or when we get new owners, then years and years of total mismanagement can slowly begin to be eased away.🤞

What we do in the short term is massive; although I like Frank Lampard, I haven't got a lot of confidence in him right now.

Christine works and never had the intention to move here. He runs home every week so how can he give a 100% commitment to Everton?

A good board would have sussed he has a split life. He's a careerist and is practising at Everton.

One wonders why Kenwright isn't already serving burgers at Tony's burger van across the road!

We were a firmly paid up member of the 'Big Five' when he first came on to the board back in 1989; now look where we are after 33 years!

Many players, managers, board members, DoFs, CEOs, owners etc have all come and gone in that time... so Kenwright has had far more influence than anyone at this club for decades and standards continue to slip lower and lower.

He is the common denominator in a very long and unsuccessful period for this club and that he even had the cheek to tell fans we've had 'good times' shows how even further out of touch with reality this man is.

Whilst us fans crave real success, I've said for years Kenwright's only ambition is to keep his beloved Chairman's seat and be seen by the media as 'Mr Everton' – and to hell with everything else rather than step aside and see it successful.

God only knows when we're finally going be rid of this man. Him gaining power was the worst thing that's ever happened to this once great club.

Maintaining an out-dated preparation regime that dates back to the 1970s. A vision of Kenwright's that was to produce a competitive team, without competent management to run the club.

This only resulted in an unproductive hierarchy that dominates the club and produces football that no serving manager recognises as being capable of realising his objectives.

Such a regime attracts people who are not interested in performance but only in maintaining their own position. I now include Thelwell as being of this motivation. Mina must have thought Everton was a gift when he first arrived.

I even think that pressure is being applied to force Moshiri to sell to a buyer or group of buyers who is favourable to the perpetrators of maintaining this regime.

I know it sounds crazy that anyone would go to such lengths, even jeopardising the club's future, but it is the only explanation I can think of that explains the levels that Everton has sunk to.

There will not be one iota of response from the Board or any off-pitch management. We will just get a pitiful explanation from the manager and an attempt to rally support, which I can't be bothered to read about.

IMHO, unless something more radical happens, eg, the crowd stops showing up at Goodison Park (imagine there are only 9,000+ showing up for a 6-pointer game against Southampton) to help with the effort of other activists groups like the 27 Years Campaign, otherwise the rotten club leadership would keep serving nightmarish déjà vu to us.

You're floating the proposal that some 30,000 supporters don't turn up at Goodison in order to register a protest against the Board on an "Oust the Board" thread that hasn't yet reached double figures in terms of comments... 48 hours after it appeared on ToffeeWeb!

Even "Dependable Don" and "Nasty Nick" couldn't be arsed to comment...

March 2021 – we were 4th under Carlo Ancelotti.

December 2022 – we hear the current manager say we are talking baby steps and this season is exactly how we expected it to be.

Why?

What went so far wrong in that time that we now should be grateful to get 35 points and cling on once again by the tips of our fingers to survival (although I think this season may require more points).

Sure, the appointment of Benitez never went down well but, even in Benitez's first 8 games, stability was there that Ancelotti created (until it fell apart in the last few matches).

We were well placed in October 2021 and had just drawn at Old Trafford and probably should have won that.

Is everyone trying to tell me that what happened between October 2021 and January 2022 is the reason why, a year later, we are still in this mess?

It's because the hierarchy, the manager tell us not to expect anything; this is little old Everton, a club that doesn't do ambition or pulling up trees.

We knew Richarlison was leaving long before he did; what did we have lined up to replace him with?

Why did we never replace Sigurdsson?

It all smacks of boardroom corruption.

You're right about the apathy amongst us. We're all like a bunch of ostriches with our heads buried in the sand – and I include myself in that.

I feel that Dupont (#8) is right and that nothing is likely to change unless our feelings are made in a dramatic fashion and on a large scale. The only way I see to do that would be for us all (or very large numbers of us) to boycot a game.

We could all go to the ground and not enter the stadium but remain outside the ground for the duration of the game. I know many people have indicated they would not do this but I don't see many other ways of making our feelings known in such a dramatic fashion.

I know this is unlikely to happen but I would certainly be happy to do this for the greater good.

I agree, that would be the best way to show them that the majority are unhappy with the direction of the club but we know it will never happen. People go the game now just out of habit, let's be honest.

We've sold 9,400 tickets for a Cup tie next week that we know we have pretty much zero chance in given the contempt that Everton treat the Cups with these days.

But the fans will travel in their numbers to support a bunch of flakes that are over-paid and over-pampered.

We are guilty of giving the club an easy ride.

Oh hang on… Greame Sharp is on the board, we will be okay then, he knows what's best for Everton.

Laughing Stock FC.

Now while I would be glad to see the back of Kenwright I think blaming him for the Boxing Day debacle (and other performances) is basically daft.

How did Kenwright affect Gordon's "backpass" to the Wolves goalie when clean through? How did Kenwright force our centre backs to play pingpong on the halfway line with seconds to go in the game?

I think people are looking for an easy target for their anger and IMHO it's been getting repetitive and boring for a good while.

The players played shit, and I don't think for one minute they played shit because of boardroom incompetence or Kenwright being the snake he is.

And I don't think for one minute they purposely play to 70% because the chairman has no ambition as well as having no clue.

I appreciate there's a need for venting but, when those players step onto that pitch and stink the place out, you can only blame them or/and the coaching staff.

I don't need educating in our decline either. I've lived through it and suffered with the rest. I know what's gone on, but if Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale popped their clogs tomorrow after a joint hang-gliding accident, would we go on to beat Man City and surge up the table on future results?

The blame game is, and has for a good while, become very repetitive, and very boring. Just saying!

Possibly James – although his better days were behind him, he still managed to produce the odd piece of brilliance, and I think Richarlison at times produced moments of magic but, other than these two, I am struggling to see any other player that has excited me.

So, by-and-large, we have signed average players at best and (other than Ancelotti) signed average managers to manage them. Apart from Martinez's first season and spells under Ancelotti, the football we have produced has been poor.

Last season, the fans, Richarlison and Pickford were the reason we stayed up and to expect the fans to reach those same levels of intensity without having anything to excite them is just expecting too much.

Us fans can verbally let him know what he surely already knows, that as Chairman of the club he professes to love, he has thoroughly failed and it's time for him to go and collect his ill-gotten gains by selling the rest of his shares and retire.

He'll always be remembered and never be forgotten for the way he used his position to satisfy himself but never for the good of Everton FC.

If he survives, he's a great actor, but if the poor man died, then it would be the fault of Evertonians, who ended up turning on the great man, without any real cause!

Good post and plenty of truth in it but the thread is venting our anger at the man who, for his entire Chairmanship, has done what is best for himself and not for Everton FC.

He won't leave voluntarily, he has to be forced out – even if the majority of fans don't care if he stays or goes – which I think is the way it stands.

9,400 will show up at Old Trafford next Friday. I hope the team, whoever is selected, do likewise.

We could have and would have sold more. I think most of the January fixtures, home and away, are already sold out.

I don't think it's apathy; I think it's unreserved passion for supporting the team in the current predicament. That's why I try to split the here and now from the obvious pointy finger at the reason we have ended up in this predicament. Without wishing to bore you, Brian!!!

On match days, I don't even look for the Chairman or owner. I don't even care if they are there. Mike Ashley used to wear a Newcastle top in winter. That endeared him and went well.

I also can't think of many players that got me excited over recent decades.

Ferguson was a beacon of hope for a generation that had little to cling onto.

Cahill embodied fighting spirit and work ethic that endeared him to many Evertonians.

I thought Phil Neville brought professionalism and presence despite being pretty limited as a footballer. It was noticeable when he didn't play.

James Rodriguez was obviously the quality many desired, but couldn't play every game. What I'd give to have had him for 10-15 last season or this one. How many play every game in the modern era?

Probably the only top draw signing we've had since 1987 is Andrei Kanchelskis.

I don't want to leave out goalkeepers. Nigel Martyn, the best Everton keeper since Neville Southall despite us getting him in his twilight? I leave that one to debate.

On goalkeepers, I read that Pickford had agreed a new contract before the World Cup, but the club are now stalling. Can anyone shed light?

If true, it sounds like the club are sounding out to sell him while his stock is high? I don't claim to know, just something that flagged on a Social Media notification this morning.

All it needed was a savvy new Chairman and board but somehow the snake has conned Moshiri and here we are today in a mess because of it.

Just that memory of David Moyes leading Everton out in his last game whilst Kenwright was in full knowledge that he was leaving for Man Utd makes me squirm. It's not as if Moyes had lined our cabinets with trophies and deserved a good send-off.

Moyes should have been hauled over the table for his inept performances against the sky luvvies and sacked for speaking to Man Utd. Not with Kenwright, though, as he had all that he wanted which was money rolling in and control of the club. Who needs ambition?

Kenwright has failed to look after the club's best interests and instead looked after himself first. He has overseen the worst period in the club's history with players and managers passing through during his time who were not fit to grace this club of ours.

Give Kenwright the full power of our voices and let him know we think he's a dirty horrible phoney bastard.

Kenwright may have made mistakes, his biggest being he isn't an oil sheikh with billions to spend, but he isn't the fella changing managers at the drop of a hat or buying duds left, right and centre.

Beware simple conclusions… they often come from simple minds.

Kenwright hasn't "made mistakes" – not at all; he has been eminently successful in lining his own pockets; he has successfully taken an investor for a ride, told untruths, gagged shareholders... the list is quite comprehensive.

If Kenwright had millions to spend, as you suggest, do you think he would have "invested" in the club as he has in the past? Oh wait, hang on, he didn't, he hasn't and he won't... "good times", Barry?

The club has attempted to avoid the impact of protests by throwing up the Fans Advisory Board or highlighting the new Everton Stadium...

I for one will keep baying at the moon, thanks... some of us don't have the memory of a goldfish!

The conclusions might be simple, but then simple is often obvious. Even those of us who didn't initially have any particular grievance against Kenwright.

I don't think they are from simple minds. They are from many different minds.

But when we look at where Everton were and where they are now, we have moved about as far as a slug who strayed onto the path and got caught in the sun.

Here and now, we can point at players, the latest manager, the tactics, all day long. Rightfully so.

But over the course of 4 decades, it has been poor leadership and a lack of strategic vision that has put us where we are.

It is repetitive. It is boring.

We have a team to support at the weekend. That is important right now and, when Saturday comes, everything gets put aside.

But it doesn't distract from the real change needed at this club we all love and follow.

I was on here a long time ago. I left. I was blasted by all others when I decried The Chairman very early after his takeover.

My pointing out how his self-centered arrogant nature, with no clue on running a football club business, coupled with no financial clout nor any peer respect inside the footballing world, was a timebomb for catastrophe.

At the time, I believe he had two shows running in London and a tgird waiting. Whilst that side of his enterprise has vastly expanded and appears successful, the opposite is true of his "genuine love".

I predicted he would never let go of his Boyhood Club and that he had no intention of selling unless he was given purse strings and a role similar to that he had, but using another's money.

He never seriously looked for investors. Not one decent one came near. Of course, the Chairman uttered blusterous bullshit about how many potential suitors were banging at the door.

But he had the club's interests in his boyhood blue heart. Saving us, his beloved fans, by rejecting fake or untrustworthy intentions. Many shameful off-field antics have occurred, year -in and year-out.

Let's face it, when you sell the ground under the Park End to raise money and the fans don't blink, then you know you can go as far down the creek as you want without recrimination.
The Chairman severed ties with fans. No more shareholder AGMs; thus no accountability.

And so it has come to pass. But it has taken longer than expected thanks to Moshri.

No manager can be genuinely blamed. Realistically, most were below average at best. Easy to manipulate. They have all been suckered in. False promises and the light bulb turns on once they sign and see the team's sole striker being sold.

Bill's governance of transfer dealings is now legendary in the "How Not To Do It" Hall of Shame. There are way too many humiliating incidents to recite regarding this Chairman's woeful reign.

An ejector seat wouldn't remove this man. I will despise what he is responsible for (in my opinion) as long as I have a breath.

[Lights Royal Blue touchpaper and retreats...]

“If you're going to run a successful football club, you need two qualities: To be realistic and to have a plan”. He said something along these lines many years ago but he didn't have a plan and his reality was Kirkby.

Simple Minds indeed!

Unfortunately, them numbers will grow and grow as people get wise... but only if we are in another relegation fight, so it's very much a no-win situation.

It really is a dark toxic situation and two new attackers may or may not save us. Only one solution short- and long-term, Dave, but as you say, minorities are not listened to.

For now.

You are probably right.

When fans can be so disrespected by concreting the club into laughing stock status and knowing they will always be there, booing and hissing at the team and not you, well… True Showmanship!

He wasted opportunities to sell us to buyers with a vision and strategy that would have moved us forward. Instead... his vision and strategy was one of himself being the face of Everton and hailed as some sort of demi-God.

Finally... chuck them under the bus when it goes tits up.

Kenwright has done the final point with the fans.

I look out my bedroom window in New Brighton at Goodison and the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock over the river directly opposite... but really, rationally, as a grown man, I shouldn't invest my emotions in this shitshow any more.

There's no Harvey, Lyons, or Reid, barely a Cadamarteri to look to. And then I know, deep down, I'll be watching Man City tear us – whatever 'us' is anymore, is it just us fans and not the club at all (?) – a new arsehole.

Once when he was the owner who wouldn't sell unless it was on his terms, and those terms that kept him on as chairman have definitely done us no favours either.

I could go on: Was the ring-fenced money a conniving lie? Or do stupid people just jump to stupid conclusions?

It must be just a matter of time before Moshiri cuts his losses and sells – and the sooner the better.

Under Carlo, it felt like top table was possible again. Under Koeman and Silva we had exciting new investment. Under Bobby (at least at the beginning), it felt like exciting football was on its way back, and even under Moyes it felt like we'd at least be twats to beat and more likely to KITAP1.

Now… there's nothing. No identity at all.

I'd believed Frank would at least be a champion of youth, but all I've seen is him ship out the likes of Branthwaite, Warrington and Simms and bring nobody through.

Between him and Thelwell, it feels like we are deliberately trying to be “middle of the road steady eddies”. We are literally a rag-tag bunch of mediocrity – no different than 60% of this league.

We neither attack nor defend well. We are neither young nor experienced. We have no particular style at all. We really are the fish, chips and peas of the Premier League. Nice at the beach on a day out, utterly crap served up every fucking day and week.

Goodison has lost its mojo, a partner beaten down constantly by those who are supposed to love us. No passion on the pitch and very little left in the stands too. We gave them a push, and as soon as it stopped, they gave us the push.

No signing rumours, no Frank getting sacked rumours, limbo and radio silence on Pickford's contract, constant rumours of the returning messiah (Calvert-Lewin) but nothing but grey misinformation in reality. The rolling BMD update being the only thing positive we see from the club.

The hope is the limbo is Moshiri making big plans; the fear is he lost his mojo long ago and only some clever laundering is keeping the stadium going as a way out.

Either way… School of Science, NSNO... no chance. But we need something… we need an identity again.

I write this because alls I've read since I put my iPad on is that Everton could be in financial trouble again, with some alleged experts saying they can't believe the club has been allowed to lose over £300 million over the last three seasons without sanctions.

There may some daylight in how he chooses to sell and remember he was really only in it for the development. I'm optimistic that the potential buyers may be able to save Moshiri's books by structuring the buyout in a way that does not leave them shackled.

The League's gentlemen in grey suits would support that. Obviously out on a limb here, I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about.

We are a laughing stock, a joke, an embarrassment and decline will become destruction when we are eventually relegated. It has been coming for years.

So so sad, but inevitable.

He kept the club in the top division when all our peers have been relegated. I realise people get sniffy about this after downing their NSNO juice but it's a fact. Similarly financed clubs have all dropped in some cases more than once.

Christine Foster @24,

I said "billions" not "millions" the distinction is mountainous.

I dare say you have your own reasons for misrepresenting what I said but nevertheless I will answer your question. I think Kenwright would gladly have spent like Abramovich or Mansoor if he had the loot but the point is he never has.

Frank's got to go, that much is clear. But Christ, with that nitwit in charge, his likelihood of appointing another dolt is worryingly high. If Roberto comes back on another 3-year deal, well I'm sure a few would be quite put out on here if that happened.

Having said that, none of the options are good. I was thinking for a while 'What if Chelsea sack Potter, we could get him'. No chance in hell he'd come to us in that scenario. Only a mentalist, a desperado or somebody with a strong connection with the club will come.

With that in mind, I am all in on Brentford seeing out the old year in style tomorrow. Something tells me Moshiri is sick of the whole thing at the moment, and will defer to the chairman. And I think he's hoping West Ham do him a big favour. So am I...

In the rearview mirror, his previous tenure looks like a Shangrila compared with the bomb site we are now. If he signs us a couple of good players in the January window, he can suck his teeth in about Everton's prospects til the cows come home, at least he's competent.

That's an old financial story being revisited. Everton were not found to have breached any guidelines when they submittted their most recent accounts.

You may remember that there was a lot of noise around the fact that Burnley and Watford who were relegated last season, were going to take action over Everton's alleged financial breaches... came to nothing.

Not saying Everton fans are bit slow on the uptake but their patience comes across as just plain daft. Every village needs a Barry, I suppose.

I am sad to think that you do not consider our peers to be Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd or Our Bastard Child. Even Man City (whose phoenix rose back in 2002). We should not be considering the names of clubs outside of those as peers.

How we have sunk. The stark truth is that almost all of those other clubs (in the Premier League and recently departed) are proving us the exception to the rule of adapting to modern era football. Business acumen on and off the field.

In the early days of the Premier League, we got away with it.
We have almost always been permanently broke. The reasons are mainly mentioned above. Buying cast-offs, the lame, the unwanted. We were chancers. But somehow survived.

Name any British or internationally recognised class player(s) in their prime coming here because we were successful?

The club! Look at how the chairman has handled transfers: The Rooney deal, Arteta blah blah blah, more recently Dele Alli and Moise Kean.

Until Moshri provided the chairman with a golden ticket to Wanker Land (a theatre full of cash), we were on the financial precipice of bankruptcy. What did the chairman do?

Waste it all, on players no-ones' ever heard of. Duffers on the field and behind the scenes. Some of the prices paid for transfers and wages are or were incredulous. Even a complete novice would have done a far better job.

Here's a clue: look at how the best teams in the Premier League (who permanently achieve success) are structured and run. We were given some financial muscle but turned a silk purse into a sow's ear.

The motto NSNO is permanently tarnished, because if this is the best...

A bit underwhelming if true. Martinez would be Bill's Number 1 choice and I dare say Duncan his second choice. At least we may get some new manager bounce with Duncan.

That's the point: those clubs you mention are not our peers and haven't been since Premier League creation (give or take). Those who don't (or won't) grasp that reality are part of the problem.

Big Sam finished 8th but it wasn't good enough for them. The delusion of School of Science, winning with a swagger, given our relative disadvantage financially, is pure delusion – hence where we are.

I think you have summed it up perfectly. The old joke about a cowboy outfit comes to mind.

It's a farce, pissed money away on crap deals for crap players on massive contracts over and over again. Hire a manager, fire him, hire another, fire him.

Who was it we signed last year two days before we sacked Benitez? I can't remember but that alone should be investigated.

All our issues arise and seep out from the inept running of the club.

Mistakes!!! Jeez, and then some!

His "mistakes" over the past 30 years, and definitely every day of this century, have visibly weakened our club throughout, from squad, to property, reputation and hope.

One mistake of magnitude would cause any honourable person to tender their resignation but our self-serving, evasive, lying fraud just ploughs on with the apparent support of naive Toffees who refuse to see the wood for the trees.

To me, they're all making a really big mistake, to say the least.

While agreeing with your general point, what role are you suggesting Kenwright had in the Kean and Dele deals?

Without knowing what happened with any certainty, they just look like bad football decisions made by the Director of Football and or manager at the time.

I don't know about the Moise Kean deal, but Kenwright was down in London on transfer deadline day, talking with Daniel Levy in some restaurant, trying to negotiate a deal for Dele Alli.

Needless to say, it looks like Levy got the best of Kenwright, by not only negotiating a ludicrous price for Dele, but also somehow managing to get Richarlison during the conversation.

Ridsdale School of Football Economics but with shitter staff.

I can't believe no-one at the club saw Mourinho explain to Dele that he was pissing his talent (and he had it) up the wall on TV.

This time next year, we'll all be millionaires and Everton will be playing proper footy.

You seem to have completely missed the point re our peers.

The so-called big clubs were our peers at the creation of the Premier League and we were a driving force in its inception but, since your hero joined the board, he has managed to simultaneously ensure decades of under-investment alongside a concerted campaign of expectation-lowering by turning us into ‘plucky little Everton'.

Whilst other clubs professionalised their commercial and administrative functions, the teary-eyed romantic ran us like a shitty corner shop. After decades of tirelessly searching 24/7 for the ‘right investor' he then managed to finally find a rich enough mug who was gullible enough to fall for his bullshit (or should that be billshit?).

The only people who have succeeded since his long search concluded are players and their agents who have considerably enriched themselves after dealing with the master negotiator and Uncle Cyril's nephew — who has also considerably enriched himself in the process of getting the investor onboard.

Apparently Kenwright found “an investor” before Moshiri came along, who wanted to buy the club but, because they wouldn't let Kenwright carry on wearing the ringmaster's top hat, they fucked us, and him, off.

Needless to say, that investor seems to be doing okay now — about 30-odd miles from where he could have been.

When getting rid of Richarlison, he failed to replace a goalscorer (albeit not prolific) with a goalscorer. (Remember after Lukaku?) On each occasion, fobbing the manager off with non-scoring Championship quality players.

If we are to believe that the Director of Football really does have a free and open mind to target players worthy of our jersey, surely the Chairman should be saying,

"Kevin, this list is great. But why no goalscorers? Are you sure you want to rely on only one crocked striker who knows where the net is for an entire season?

"We only just scraped through by the skin of our teeth last season. I got a few bob for Richarliso. Come back to me with a list of renowned goalscorers.

"Hell, here's a load of them listed in the national newspapers. Name, releasing club, and goals-to-games ratio. All available for free. Sort through and come back to me with them in order."

And then later, "Neal who??? ... Dwight McWhat???"

I am pretty sure that isn't how it works, however... Stand by for the usual circus fiasco of Everton in the January transfer window. Be prepared to be underwhelmed and staggered with incredulity.

Your assertion that the aforementioned clubs were our peers at the beginning of Kenwright's reign might hold water if they were on the verge of ruin, like us... but of course they weren't.

Best not rewrite history: the chasm appeared pre-Kenwright –just ask Peter Johnson. Like it or not, the actual peer group we were in saw us out-perform the lot.

Now before another buffoon interprets that as supporting Bill Kenwright – it is not; it is simply stating facts that certain folk seem to have great difficulty with.

The real reason they bought Man City and not us was that City had a new stadium with plenty of land to expand.

Nothing to do with Kenwright.

There is a very well-informed Evertonian on here who knows. We were not first choice, but ahead of City apparently.

And it did come down to control, as I understood.

But as Danny says, we were definitely ahead of Man City when it came to any buyout, and Kenwright wanted to remain in control, as well as, so I believe anyway, wanted to “trouser £5M” off the Sheikh before selling.

Kenwright was told to do one on both counts.

Blue Bill was a minority shareholder when the Saudis came calling... so they could have gained control of Everton even against Kenwright’s wishes.

I'm not saying Kenwright didn't angle for a future role under the Saudis but, if they had really wanted Everton without Kenwright... there wasn't anything Blue Bill could have done to prevent it.

I expect, as Paul #67 says above... the new stadium in Manchester was the decider.

The Guardian good enough?

"The Everton chairman, Bill Kenwright, is selling half his 26% shareholding as part of the deal by which the investor Farhad Moshiri is buying 49.9% of the club. Agreed after a long search by Kenwright for a wealthy investor, the deal values Everton at £175m, which means Kenwright will be paid £22.75m for the approximate 13% stake he is selling now. Kenwright is staying on as chairman and Moshiri has an option to buy a majority stake in future circumstances which have not been publicly disclosed.

Or buy a club with a new ground that has plenty of land to expand?

Difficult choice.

Moshri appeared here around 2016.
But hey, it shouldn't detract from the focus of the title of the thread, the great comments, and the cohesiveness of agreement regarding responsibility for our plight.

Good night, Blues

Then he introduced a well-known fake-Toffee shyster, Chris Samuelson, as our saviour in opposition to his far wealthier fellow director, Paul Gregg, in the 2004 AGM (where he also freely admitted a series of his own failures since he'd taken over 4 years earlier).

That was before publicly stabbing 18-year-old Wayne Rooney in the back for allegedly personally engineering his move to Man Utd.

That was in 2004 and before. Since then, he deliberately avoided accountability by banning most AGMs, of course.

Moshiri, over 10 years later, made him wealthy beyond reason – whilst our club withered.

And yet some Toffees still give him one iota of credibility?

Christ on a bike!

I'm not a Kenwright fan – far from it – but I do find the constant abuse to him staggering. He's not perfect, he has very little knowledge of football, even though he thinks he does.

If Moshiri was stupid enough to buy the club and leave him in charge on a reported £2 million wages, that's his stupid fault. If people want to blame Kenwright… fine. Me, I blame the constant manager and crap players this club has paid millions too.

Kenwright is the Chairman to whom all the crap managers are answerable, he having had at least massive influence on their appointment.

If, as a few seem to believe, he had no such influence, it's rational to query why the hell he, an alleged fan (but bogus to me), remains as Chairman whilst the club gets worse by the year – with him for years having been in charge 95% of the time, loaded as he now personally is on account of the weirdo Moshiri.

.

The totally unexpected news that the deal had fallen through and Moshiri was looking instead for investment, with Kenwright staying on as Chairman, was for me the single biggest blow in my 60-odd years as a match-going supporter.

How any Evertonian can give that greedy, lying charlatan any credit at all whilst presiding over the decline our club in the last 24 years is completely beyond my comprehension.

I couldn't disagree more. If Blue Bill had any say in the managerial appointments, Davey Moyes would have come back years ago and Rafa would have never darkened our doors.

Since he came, Moshiri has called all the managerial appointments.

But let's not stop a good story.

Hahahaha! We all need some sort of gallows humour at times like these.

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

In Kenwright's case,I believe that he bought into the club to rescue us from Johnson but, as time went on, he has thought of nobody else but himself and lining his own pockets.

We would all love to be in Kenwright's position but soon enough would realise that we are out of our depth and look for someone else to steer the ship – only in his case, he is clinging on for grim death.

Bournemouth just got taken over by a billionaire… Bournemouth, for fuck’s sake. In the meantime, we have gobshite Kenwright running us into the ground.

The country over the years has sold every asset available: gas, electricity, water, railways, NHS. Only to be left with a shell of a once great nation whilst lining the pockets of the owners.

Liken those national assets with some of the mistakes made by Kenwright with a once great football club.

Kings Dock, Rooney, Bellefield, Finch Farm, Samuelson, Gregg, Kirkby, Saudis, Moshiri… and ask yourself who is the only person to profit?

Unless you think it's alright for him to be paid an extravagant salary whilst he sees our club diminishing year by year, to the massive cost of genuine fans.

His own personal "Messiah of Money", Philip Green aside, no other such self-serving, lying, unaccountable useless fucker would last a second were there even a scintilla of accountability such as honest customers and staff have every right to demand.

Absolutely; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Blue Bill's shareholding is what 5%... hardly absolute power?

I've said it many times that any Liverpudlian would be proud of the job Kenwright has done on Everton. The fact that he's beginning to dominate these threads a lot more hopefully means that it won't be long before his thread completely snaps…🤞

What the fuck?... I was talking about managerial appointments.

I know it's late but at least try and address the point I was making instead of rambling incoherently.

It is only the Kenwright haters that don't shut up, who are keeping him meaningful.

Last season, the supporters pulled the team out of the mire but I wouldn't bank on that happening again because there does seem to be a lot more anger starting to brew.

I definitely believe that Everton Football Club need to be sold for the supporters to remain positive now.

He's still at our club, pulling strings now, and he's a very dangerous nepotistic man who has always been more concerned about himself rather than the club we all support and love.

The only way Kenwright will become meaningless is when he leaves, and I can't wait for that day to arrive. I hope it's before the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is finished, because I believe that would kill the man, nearly as much as he's killed Everton over time.

Kenwright Out!

You're obviously much closer to the local rumour mill than I am but I'm concerned that you seem to often caveat that your "buy out" news may not necessarily be all good.

Anyhoo... in case I don't post tomorrow, "Happy New Year" to you and your younger brother, Dave.

How much money have you made out of Everton or any other fan that pays their money?

How much money has 96% ownership made out of Everton? £500M losses?

How much has 4% made more out of the club?

I suppose we have had some good times…

For me, and I've said before, many times on TW, the rot or seeds of destruction were self-set by Everton in not building on the 1969-70 Championship team; selling Alan Ball, was a killer blow, in my opinion, a couple of years later – a single act I don't think the club has ever recovered from, in terms of transfer strategy.

That chilled the blood, for years... Harry Catterick, and many tales from those days. The decline of the last almost 35 years is complex but a poorly managed football club has brought Everton to its knees.

It's the agony and the ecstasy but it's been a case of agony for the best part of 5 decades. I'm damned in that all matters Everton are paramount; it consumes life but, for decades, the club has let down generations of fans and cost so much in terms of families and money.

Genuinely, the younger generation of Evertonians deserve medals for carrying the burden so well in acute tough times in football and social-economic terms in the UK in recent times, and what is looking likely for the next few years at least.

It's a killer for all Evertonians at the moment in terms of the results this season but I still believe that the club will come good this season as there's far worse teams than Everton, and consistently, but only when it's managed from the top down, as a proper business, which is what football clubs are these days.

The new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is the vision and hopefully reality of a fresh start.

The next game counts, and blood, sweat and tears and effort must be given at City as the minimum.

Each to their own on the players but there's no allowance for shithouse attitudes this Saturday – nor should there be ever when wearing the Everton shirt.

Enough has been said on the virtues of our wingbacks but also there's no players wishing to take the game by the scruff of the neck when the going gets tough. Coady may bring some steel and resolve and lessons learnt from the Wolves game.

Gordon gets going but he can't do it all on his own, he needs some proper motivation at Finch Farm this week to get into City without fear, to play for 96 minutes and get into their faces. Show some fucking fight and belief!

Carry on and improve with loads of points to play for this season; it is a marathon, the Premier League. Everton can come out stronger from this run of poor results but it's hearts and minds, stand up and be counted time.

But if they fritter away opportunities on the Park each week, and it gets tougher. There must be a positive reaction on the pitch at Man City; Everton will not disgrace the shirt, hopefully.

All The Very Best to All TWrs, for a happy and heathy 2023, and for Everton to get on the right path and get back up the Premier League table, by hook or crook.

J Mc Snr, and Jay in Brasil, I hope you're well; your inputs to TW enrich the healthy reviews and debates.

Every day is a good day; we are Evertonians and we stick it out through the battles and challenges of life, the best at improvising, adapting and overcoming adversity. But we need genuine and consistent signs on the park from the team.

“What's Our Name?”

UTFTs!

I keep trying to channel my "Diplomatic Danny" but every now and then my "Nasty Nick" comes to the fore.

You're a long time poster on ToffeeWeb, as am I, and even though we disagree, we, and I mean I, should try and do so without the rancour.

Happy New Year.

People at the top, such as owners and chairmen, are required in any sincerely accountable business to be accountable to the vast number of their sincere supporters for the signing of managers, coaches and players.

Every year Kenwright's been in charge of the boardroom, all of us Toffees have had no joy at all.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of all the other Premier League clubs have left us far behind, and that's exemplified by the spending constraints we're now alone under and the bog-standard squad we have as a result of Kenwright's self-proclaimed "genius" when it comes to negotiation in football.

Disappointed that you descend to Dazza'esque personal abuse to a fellow Toffee, but each to his own core "personality", I suppose.

Anyway, Happy New Year.

Peace, brother, and all the best.

I don't think young fans deserve medals, to be honest, as you accept the world you're presented with. They are no different from West Ham Utd fans. They've never known any difference.

The tragedy is those of us old enough to remember that it wasn't always this way. Ignorance is bliss.

Ramblings are often good. They tend to be instinctive, come from the heart and speak the mind.

I read the Guardian often. Online these days. I read across the spectrum as it keeps my views balanced (I think). I gave up the red tops long ago, just as I did the Echo. I don't agree with everything, but nor do I disagree with a lot of things. I just like to get and assess different views.

The point about the Man City takeover was based on a conversation I had, not anything I read. I don't normally speculate as I rarely (if ever) have inside information. Ironically, I'm normally better positioned to gossip on Liverpool as my sister works for them.

Those young fans do deserve it. When you travel with them and see their passion despite having been starved of anything resembling success, it is humbling for someone of my generation. Beaten into submission, they simply won't give in. Continuing to carry the torch despite what they've been put through.

Happy New Year to all. Starting tomorrow with a point and Haaland in Coady's pocket.

I'm off again. I'll get my coat.

I believe Christine to be a bull-by-the-horns kinda girl. You two may have got your wires crossed, but I think we know her well enough to know she won't avoid the issue by deliberately misreading you.

Other than that, I think you have played a blinder here and have not been in the least intimidated by the prevailing wind.

If there was a TW poll today asking members whether they would like Kenwright to stay or go, Boys Pen Bill would struggle to get a vote.

His self-serving disregard for Evertonians and the club (not mistakes, because it's been deliberate) are so well documented they are ingrained on the brain of every Evertonian. A tiny number may forgive him for putting himself first. The majority of us won't.....

But fuck me, some of the stuff I see written about him on these pages defies belief. Some of the rabid evangelical nonsense spouted by people who clearly believe they are educating the rest of us, will eventually drive said evangelists out of their minds. To be fair I'm good with that. but they will bore every other fucker to death in the process.

A good chairman is a major, major asset to any football club, but you don't even have to leave the walls of Goodison to know you can still win things with a bad one.

You can't win things with bad or unsuitable managers, not even if you back them to the tune of £750M. You can put another zero on the end of that figure, but if you keep bringing in unsuitable managers, you still won't win anything.

The claim that you can't blame or criticize the managers for 20 years of being the ugly sister of the Premier League, simply because Kenwright employed them, is not only absurd, it is completely inaccurate. The belief that it's okay to batter away at Junior coaches at Finch Farm for the same reason managers should be exonerated takes the absurdity to another level.

What a fucking job managing EFC is. Not only will the owner ensure you become one of football's highest paid, you'll be at the only club in the world where a large section of the fanbase don't hold you accountable. You can serve up shite to your heart's content. The cunt who fucked up the Kings Dock 20 years ago will still be to blame.

Kenwright's duplicity has cemented him into a position where he can't be prized out. He will only go when he is ready. Yet I see so many intelligent, knowledgeable Evertonians obsessing about him, putting every other aspect of the club on ice.

While he is in situ. Everyone else gets a free ride – except, of course, the lowest earners, trying to earn a living coaching as yet unknown kids.

Rumors which were reaching fever pitch a few weeks ago seemed to have subsided. I hope this means people in the know are being kept in the dark as Moshiri's talks with potential new owners reach a delicate stage.

How lovely it would be to see Bill waving a teary farewell. Maybe we could make it ceremonial. Cast him adrift down the river just before the doors open on the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock...

In the meantime, if Frank puts out a team and formation which suggests surrender before a ball has even been kicked at the Etihad, he will be getting both barrels from me. If Kevin Thelwell brings in anymore £50k-a-week duds in January, he will most definitely be getting both barrels from me

I like to break it down into 3 categories.

Strategic Level: Leadership that set's the vision, the mission, the goals. That is what sets the aims and objectives of what needs to be achieved.

Operational Level: The behind-the-scenes activity that works on delivering direction to meet the vision, mission and goal to achieve the objectives. In the current set-up, the DoF and his staff.

Tactical Level: Delivery. The manager.

Rightfully so, the manager is held to account for every Saturday's (or other day's now) performances. But they can only deliver tactically and operationally on what they are afforded by decision-makers who set the strategy.

That's where Everton have been lacking for years. We have had no vision or strategy, so manager after manager has been set up for failure and blamed when the problem is elsewhere.

A skilled painter and decorator or a bricklayer on the front end of a project is only as good as the tools and material they are provided with.

You can't turn dust into magic. You can't polish a turd. There are no magicians out there.

Hopefully see you next week, Darren. I'll get the first one in.

You're entitled to your view, which I respect, but without a doubt they bloody-well do for their commitment and unswerving dedication, in increasingly harsh economic times, with spiralling costs, to go the match, home and often away.

And in realisation of being in the shadow of Liverpool, it stokes up the Blue faith.

To the older watch, it is inspiring to see that, despite the demise on the park and off the park for decades, and regardless of the results, their faith in EFC is unwavering.

They do know there's better times ahead, and have truth faith and believe in EFC.

Focus now on the match, and upsetting the odds.

A good watch on Toffee TV yesterday, emotions are very high after Boxing Day.

UTFTs!

No, it most certainly wasn't the intention to misrepresent you in any way. Millons or even trillions, to be fair, I didn't even think twice about that segment.

Having said that, I disagree with your perspective for not only the view on his tenure I stated but morally, the guy couldn't lie straight in bed. He is the Arthur Daley of the football world... [My apologies to our younger fans who may be wondering who the hell I am talking about!]

He may well be a successful entrepreneur but his ownership and involvement in our club has been a study in duplicitous endeavour.(say one thing, do another).

We are a very badly run business. We recruit poorly and expensively, we have a relatively low commercial income. Both of these factors make it hard for us to compete.

We have a chairman who is a self-serving, sentimental romantic, who wants to stay relevant and in control. I think he genuinely believes he is preserving the soul of Everton. Problem is, he can't tell the difference between running a business built to just survive and running a cash-rich, growing business that demands success. He, and many on here, thought we just needed money.

We have an owner who is a cross between Mr Magoo and Usain Bolt. Someone Arsenal rebuffed. Someone who desperately needs a competent hand on the tiller. Moshiri is just like Abramovich was before he learnt and recruited good people to run Chelsea day to day. The kind of person who may question why we spend millions for 5 years without buying anyone who regularly scores goals.

The other issue is on the pitch. Kenwright doesn't pick the team. He doesn't send them out looking clueless, without purpose. Bleat all you like about him (I do!), but that team should not be 17th with three wins on the board, playing listless football, inviting teams to beat us.

I suspect Moshiri knows he's a busted flush in football terms, but when he sells at a big profit just before or after the new Everton Stadium is opened at Bramley-Moore Dock, he'll move on.

The business, the pitch. Two separate issues that can be clearly linked. But not always. We might want to remember that when the next owner rocks up.

He said a bit more, but the most concerning thing (besides Everton's books) is that, because it's Americans who are allegedly trying to buy us, they are supposedly terrified of relegation, because it's a concept they just don't understand.

'Understand' will be the wrong word... 'absolutely terrified' would probably be more appropriate, but the longer this goes on, I genuinely believe this has got more chance of happening (relegation).

If I'm being honest, I'd take relegation right now, if we got sensible owners who could take the hit, whilst resetting the whole club, before hopefully leading us into a much brighter future in the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

The few Evertonians I speak to about our club are on the floor right now. It was better when the World Cup was on because you didn't have to worry about Everton, or "I'm having to drag myself to Goodison", and "I can't wait for the game to be over" being the most common things I'm hearing from the matc- going Toffees.

It really is horrible right now, but there will still be 10,000 Evertonians at Old Trafford a week today, because Everton have got magnificent supporters, but my own personal opinion is that they are on a very short fuse right now.

You are right, Darren, managers have made a fortune out of Everton, but they have all been hounded out in the end, (except Ancellotti & marvellous Moyes) and this is something Bill Kenwright has yet to face. I wonder if he'll crack, if the pressure gets really turned on him in the vitriolic way that I personally believe should have happened many years ago?

"But they can only deliver tactically and operationally, by what they are afforded by the decision makers."

For all the faults (imagined or otherwise) of this board, few clubs in world football have made more funds available to their managers over the past 6 years.

That's all any manager can ask for. Yet ours have been systematically out-thought, out-fought, and out-classed by clubs whose managers are given a fraction of their budget. Do you really believe these managers can do this because they have a vision of their clubs' long-term strategic operations

In my view, there is a culture for jumping on the bandwagon; slagging the Chairman for things he had nothing to do with is showing you love the club. Offer reason such as Barry did and you will be dismissed as some sort of raging apologist by those who can't see reason.

Barry posted nothing in support of Kenwright, he simply defended common sense... It's not that long ago you were defending Kenwright against daft claims yourself, on these very pages.

I just don't get it. Why are so many on here so hellbent on letting everyone else off the hook?

Good luck organising your trip; looking at the disruptions, you're going to need it.

Brian,

There`s a thread on the general forum. Lyndon and Michael may be trying to grab a bit of what's left of the festive season before it all kicks off again.

The new stadium will change everything for us, and should herald some massive shifts in the way the club is run. Moshiri will almost certainly sell the club on its completion, and that should also see Bill reduced to some kind of legacy ambassador role.

Hopefully, the next owners will bring in professionals to run the club and we will see an end to the ridiculous turnover of managers and coaches, and – again, fingers crossed – an end to the cluelessly random signing of shit players for lots of money.

My only hope is that we are still in the Premier League when we move to our new home. I rate that at about 50-50. But I'm confident the 10 years after the move will be better than the 10 years since Moyes left.

A few years back, when we beat Chelsea on penalties at Stamford Bridge. about 7,000 Evertonians wildly celebrated long after the teams had departed. Uncle Bill left his seat on the half-way line to walk towards us, doing a little dance.

I may be wrong but it seemed to me that every single fan gave him the finger as we filed out.... He actually thought they were celebrating with him.

Sorry, the guy has skin like a Rhino. He will not allow himself to believe most of us don't love him. He will not be driven out.

The sooner we stop spooking those Yanks by steering clear of relegation, the better for all concerned.

I remember the game, Darren, the Evertonians were absolutely incredible that day. One Chelsea fan told us after the game on the tube, that her daughter stopped watching the game (Carlo's Chelsea were boring that day, inexplicably not going in for the kill, imo!) and just sat there watching the Evertonians in amazement.

I disagree about Kenwright; he has definitely got that Rhino skin, but when a fraud who thinks he's kidded everyone finally gets found out (highly unlikely – too many still don't want to admit they've been kidded) they usually can't wait to get out of a place quick enough imo.

Kenwright might be different because a closet red would probably just smile, shake his head, and think "I've had these gullible fuckers for years..."

Thanks for pointing out that there is a piece about Pele on the general forum, maybe I was a little quick to criticize our editors for not covering the story.

On the topic of our boardroom, I have said many times that Kenwright should have stepped down when Moyes left. But to put all the faults that are wrong with Everton down to him, I think that's letting quite a few players and managers off the hook.

Most managers ask that they are backed in the transfer window and most have been backed. Most spent the money on very ordinary players, that's why most see out their contract or are sold for peanuts as that sums up the poor quality of players we have bought, Richarlison being the only one sold for a decent profit.

I think most of the Usmanov & Moshiri reign, they have brought their choice of manager into the club. Especially Allardyce and Benitez who, to be fair, Kenwright would never have appointed if it was up to him.

Brian Clough, when writing his autobiography, left a blank page to sum up what Chairmen and Directors know about football... just as true today as it was back then. Good managers produce good teams – not chairmen or directors.

I think Moyes was a great manager, but for only one man, and a lot of players who earned great money but never put a pot in the trophy room.

Plucky little Everton punched above their weight once or twice but they usually came around 7th and the club usually had the 7th or 8th highest wage bill.

The silence out of Everton right now is deafening; it's like the club has got no real governance and I personally don't think we can carry on like this for long without sleep-walking into relegation.

● Players who are not good enough.
● Managers who haven't been good enough.
● Leadership that hasn't led other than throw money at a problem.

They all contribute to the situation we are in.

Taking names out of it, we can all have different views on where the blame sits.

Other clubs have surpassed us and overtaken us because they were taken over, formed a plan at the top level, and had a strategy. Not because they appointed Mike Bassett and gave him some money.

You could argue it's been Man Utd's failing since Ferguson. They ditched their principles that built the Ferguson dynasty thinking they could buy it back.

Poorly led organisations fail – regardless of who the manager is. He's just the fall guy.

That Chelsea match was a hell of a day out, but that's another story.

Your last paragraph, it was Len Shackleton who left the blank page in his autobiography “Clown Prince of Football” (or it might have been 'Soccer' instead of 'Football')

Cloughie would never have called himself a clown – he was an egotist!!

Moyes suited Kenwright and vice versa. Balance the books, do well, but not well enough to warrant external investment.

Kenwright had a chance after we finished 4th, didn't take it. Had another chance when Martinez finished 44th, didn't take it. Moshiri sat on his hands for a year, let Lukaku and Stones leave, and we all know what happened from there.

We can bleat all we like about the money other clubs have, but look underneath and they are well run. I saw that first-hand at City after they were bought out.

That's where I agree with Danny's point. A well-run club tends to recruit well and deal with any mistakes. It has accountability that extends beyond its current manager. It has a mindset that demands tangible, measured improvement, if not outright success.

That said, all our managers in the last five years have been backed, maybe not well enough to hit the top four, but well enough to finish higher than they have. Certainly well enough to not have us worrying about relegation.

They didn't fail. The pride of middle management and the workforce saw to that.

I know of many more.

Who would you regard as our middle management and do they have that ability and willingness?

I didn't know Brian Clough deliberately left a blank page about the Chairman and the Directors he worked for. Genius.

As a great manager, he was simply relaying what many great managers have thought.

Thanks for the education and thanks for (for me at least) settling this debate.

Paul,

The people tasked with making sure the company does what it's meant to do. In this case, win matches.

Overall, they're a pretty good bunch on here with only a handful of snarky nob'eads but it does no harm to kick the echo chamber up the arse now and again.

Kenwright has a crime sheet, no doubt, but it wouldn't get a mention if his name was Sheikh Kenwright and he was showering the club with billions. It's all about the money.

We're in Shit Street because we have that dubious mixture of desperately trying to get back to the top table but with the resources of a relegation set-up. It's that simple.

The alarm bells should have began to ring then, but silly me, I honestly thought it was a ploy to finally get rid of Bill Kenwright. (It's genuinely the only reason I can think of for appointing Benitez and not giving him a pot to piss in.)

Benitez lost Sigurdsson and obviously didn't want Rodriguez although I doubt anyone tried to persuade him to keep hold of him, considering his alleged wages, and the all-of-a-sudden prudence.

The season became a massive struggle because of injuries to key players, then the toxicity started, and put the club on a downward spiral.

We suddenly found money,by selling Lucas Digne, but it was alleged that Benitez didn't sign his replacement or the other two players that came in during this transfer window, even though we no longer had a Director of Football.

Benitez went, the fans were ready to turn when hearing about his alleged replacement, and I'm certain this is how Frank Lampard ended up at the club and is also still getting an easy ride considering our performance levels, which simply haven't improved.

We signed Dele Alli, and Van de Beek, who did very little, although after having one good game for Everton, it was incredible to read some fans views about Van de Beek and how we had to sign him.

We sold Richarlison but then ended up without a recognised centre forward once Calvert-Lewin, found himself injured again, and it does feel like our financial position has once again made us take gambles on players who we could buy on the drip, rather than go for players that the manager would ‘definitely want'?

I never watched us the other day so my opinion is being formed from before but we don't really play as a unit, which epitomises the whole club right now, excluding the people behind the innovative Strategic Review.

I'd go deeper.

Going on your definition, the middle management is getting changed every year. Who's making those decisions and how are they reaching them? Why are they hiring and firing so much?

Ultimately, the manager and coaching staff are well-backed and paid to get the results they're not getting. So every year, they're sacked and replaced, at great expense.

Other than Watford & West Brom, this doesn't seem to happen anywhere else.

Without excusing the various managers' poor performance, I'd say that merits a good examination.

Your right Len Shackleton was the first to have a blank page in his autobiography, but trust me so did Brian Clough in his book.

I remember in Clough's book when he was manager of Derby they were doing some pre-season training on the ground and the chairman Sam Longsdon turned up, and he noticed 2 new players in amongst the squad.

He turned to Cloughie and said, "I don't remember agreeing to sign these two players?" Clough replied "Look, Sam, you keep signing the cheques and leave the football to me."

I just wished that Sir John Moores had the bottle to sign Clough, but he was far too outspoken for Moores's liking. He would have built something special here.

He bought what most considered players who were not top quality, but at Forest it didn't stop him winning back-to-back European Cups.

Probably Peter Shilton and Trevor Francis were the exceptions to buying average players. But he proved what a genius he was.

Money doesn't give you total professionalism, and that is what has been a major part of the problem since Moshiri arrived.

The club Moshiri inherited was in quite a bit of debt because there had only been one true objective before he arrived and that was to basically survive.

This had obviously made us lower the standards of our forefathers, and change for many, what they once viewed as being successful, and only one man has been here throughout what has been the worst period in our club's long history.

Money is massively important but having a plan and being completely and totally professional is just as important, and I don't think we have to look very far to see it.

Taking Everton out of the equation, I look across the park to see owners with a plan for success and then I look 30 miles up the road and see owners who have spent loads of money but their bigger plan seems to have been, to lower the debt, they achieved through using the banking system?

Maybe I'm talking shite about stuff that is out of my league but, after talent, the next biggest things in football are dedication, hard work, and total professionalism.

You only have to read the shite uttered recently by our CEO to realise that all these vital ingredients are missing at Everton Football Club right now.

It struck me that Moshiri wanted Benitez, the classic thick rich owner going for the 'big name' (think of Abramovitch buying the past-it Shevchenko & Torres).

I don't believe for a moment that Kenwright and Brands would have chosen Benitez. I also think suspect that Moshiri, rightly in my view, lost confidence in Brands and liked the idea of his manager doing both roles.

Looks to me as though it dawned on Moshiri realised he had little room for financial manoeuvre, and saw Benitez as a big name he could trust to be manager, DoF and overhaul the medical team.

Wrong!

Fair enough over Brian Clough's biography, I didn't know that. I remember that story over Sam Longsdon and signing players.

Sam had the last laugh when he got rid of Clough, it upset Brian no end. He did everything he could to get other people to try and persuade Longsdon to change his mind but Sam stood firm.

Derby's loss was Nottm Forest's gain even though Clough's heart was still at Derby.

Birch resigned after the board (and Kenwright the controlling shareholder) refused to sell the club and Gregg said there was a refusal to relinquish control. Kenwright is still here, 17 years on, pushing the buttons.

You're a complete moron if you think this selfish man hasn't had a detrimental effect on Everton, and that's mainly because you've bought into Kenwright's tired old narrative that we're skint and he's done everything possible to get us back to “the top table”.

We weren't skint when he took control, and we were still considered a big club. But we were completely incapable of moving forward commercially because we weren't equipped to do it. It's all complete and utter bullshit.

All that has happened is that he managed to find someone stupid enough to give him/the club money and proceeded – bar the new stadium – to piss it up the wall, all the while keeping himself in the limelight.

EFC is a study in how not to run a football club yet this man actually thinks he's some sort of footballing cross between Houdini and JP Morgan for what he's done!!

If he went, kicking and screaming, it wouldn't immediately be turned around – unlike say a new manager bounce – but the future of the club would be far more secure without this meddling buffoon and his minions anywhere near it.

Completely right. And even when Moshiri was spending we never had the megabucks of Chelsea or Man City. They could waste money and still succeed.

We had no such margin for error. A good business model was a far better bet for us than a bit of money and no plan at all.

A plan, a competent board and owner are of course important but let's not try and say the tail can wag the dog. Without the two m's, everything else is seed sown upon stoney ground.

A well-run club with money wouldn't have 4 major figures doing recruitment in different directions, buying players in the same positions, but none in the important areas.

It wouldn't go five years without realising that it isn't buying players who score goals. It wouldn't have a new manager & coaching staff almost every year.

I'm sure that better-performing managers would have us higher up the league.

We won't be successful until we're run properly, with governance, accountability and decent recruitment. I suspect that would give us more chance of hiring a manager who lasts longer than year, too.

Short term, I blame the manager. Longer term, I blame the people in charge, who set the standards and culture.

Chelsea/Abramovic on the other hand have had loads of managers but spent a fortune on top players and built up a huge and successful youth system.

Klopp doesn't even buy the players at Liverpool but they fit into the FSG Moneyball system (they identify the players that will work based on stats). And you can't get any money without at least a rich owner and you won't get a good manager without a good board.

I think you have your dog and tail analogy the wrong way around. As they say in Russia, a fish rots from the head.

Also, it's the Board who should be ensuring financial stability so that there is money for any manager to spend; so, without a decent Board and functioning club there will be no decent managers appointed or money for them to spend. This is the case we find ourselves in at present regardless of who the manager is.

So I agree with you but a good manager, money, a plan and competent ownership/management are all circular. The fact that our owner and the club hierarchy are a joke means they pick successive dud managers and have completely wasted any money we had so we are now unable to improve the team.

Unless there are changes at Board level, we will never have the two things you have listed as important - money or a good manager

Clough wasn't great in the transfer window but he was great at knowing what he wanted to achieve, and also brilliant at getting his point across. (And dead funny when he wasn't even trying to be funny – the ale probably?)

He did great in his latter years bringing younger players through (except for fucking me!) and his methods were always very, very simple, with "Get it and play it until it comes out your fuckn ears" being his most-used phrase.

Keep it simple, stand fucking still (brilliant that one cos I'd always been told to keep moving!), attack the fucking ball, and another cracker was "Fucking shut up!"

(His thoughts behind this was that the player receiving the ball should already know where he's going to pass the ball, and this might make him take his eye off the ball... I think!)

Anyway, it was another age, but I've watched Forest play on the Sunday, and Clough tell his players that they were off until the next Friday, which was the day before they played next in a game against Derby County, which happens to be a big derby match.

Forest won 2-0 and actually strolled it but Clough was clever, he had a young team, he trusted his players knowing that they were all living right, and more importantly he had already moulded them. (Nobody could convince me that 90% of coaching isn't anything more than complicated shite, unless it's kept simple.)

Forest was his club though, and I'm not telling any lies when I say I heard him tell his Chairman to shut the fuck up on more than one occasion. (I'm guessing/certain Moyes would have said similar to Kenwright many times...)

We never had the requisite money to absorb changing managers and squads as per Chelsea and Man City and plough on regardless, Moshiri was/is Randy Lerner Mk 2.

All the plans, professionalism and slick marketing in the world won't alter that fact one jot.

Perhaps I should have used Harry Enfield's old catch phrase, it's about "Loads of money"!

This is why the arguments keep going around in circles, because some believe a man who has got very deep-rooted seeds inside Everton, and has presided over the most barren spell in the club's long history, isn't doing anything wrong, whilst others don't believe the club can move forward until the ‘Curse of Bill Kenwright' (I wish I could write, I'd make a fortune on one of Bill's stages with that title) is completely banished from Everton.

Yes, his big fault was basically being too poor to own a football club at a time when money was vital but I'll give him some credit for ensuring that did not mean oblivion.

Given the reality, Moyes did a good job keeping is competitive on two bob and sixpence. But that is pretty much where it ends.

If he had no money, then we needed someone who did have it and I am not remotely convinced that Kenwright was willing to do this on anything other than his own terms, ie, keeping an element of control. As a result, I'm sure we missed opportunities. That's on him.

I'm not going to re-cap the mostly farcical events of the last 5-6 years but right now, I see a club in existential crisis. To understand just how sick the club is, try reading Barrett-Baxendale's notes in the last match programme. Utterly delusional. Bear in mind this lady is Kenwright's placewoman.

If they truly have no influence, why are they Chairman and CEO respectively? Yes the owner is an idiot for trusting these useless charlatans but that doesn't excuse them.

I believe the earlier poster who said a fish rots from the head down. It is very hard to succeed in the environment that now exists at the club. I'm not sure even Clough could have done so.

Let's be blunt, which other club would employ Barrett-Baxendale as CEO? Maybe someone in League Two? Unless we get professional leaders in very soon, that is where we will be heading...

Perhaps you could get a couple of Champions league winners though.

Carlo Ancelotti is probably the most distinguished and decorated manager around. There is probably nobody better at dealing with big egos.

Really bad fit for us though. We needed a team builder. Someone who would start from scratch and see the job through. Never in a million years would that have been Carlo.

Yeah, Chelsea and Man City have squandered fortunes on poor players, but they have also bought some very good young players. Something none of our DoFs or managers have been able to do.

It doesn't matter who runs the club, you can't move forward If the manager and DOF keep signing substandard players simply because they are available.

The best analogy for Kenwright and Everton is Nazi Germany.

A bunch of jokers take over promising a return to glory days. They cause carnage and mayhem. Some of the guilty make their own poison pill exits (Dunc, Unsie, Carlo). Others stand trial at Nuremberg and pay for their crimes through sacking (Koeman, Brands, Rafa etc).

Kenwright, as the Adolf Eichman architect of it all, swans off to Paraguay (the Liver Building). People then say, "Oh, that was 20 years ago, Kenwright is no longer running the show, let's focus on the future."

But why should one man get away with his crimes when everyone else has been punished? He shouldn't. Mossad should raid the Liver Building and bring him to face justice.

Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool have invested time, money and good recruitment in setting up their scouting and recruitment arms. Which means they can attract youngsters and sell them on at a good price if they don't make the grade.

That doesn't happen out of thin air. It needs to be thought through and organised.

Indeed, who else in the Premier League would employ our CEO as CEO? It's not her fault, truth be told, but it's such a glaringly obvious mistake, it's untrue.

Compare what we have to Liverpool (FSG aren't loaded) and Brighton (Tony Bloom – who is wealthy but puts all the best managers in the right places).

When Lerner bought Villa, he didn't have Usmanov (the real money) behind him and neither did he keep on Deadly Doug Ellis to run the club. Lol.

When Carlo came to Everton, we were pretty close to FFP limits... so I think Carlo was operating with one hand (financial) tied behind his back.

Carlo also said that, if Real Madrid had not come in for him, he would have remained at Everton. Strange remarks for a guy allegedly operating under an incompetent chairman and CEO.

If a 6-year-old in Outer Mongolia shows a decent first touch, the world and its dogs are alerted to it. Signing gems is still the name of the game. Finding "hidden gems" is a thing of the past.

You are right. These clubs represent a far greater attraction for the better players, but plenty slip through the net.

Unfortunately, you don't catch the ones that got away by panic buying or offering a fortune to anyone who is available and prepared to come.

He also took an absolutely massive pay cut to leave Everton, so why would he slag the people who were giving him such incredible wages, Brendan?

I'd never heard your phrase about stoney ground before Brendan, but it was unfortunately the perfect analogy for the Bill Kenwright era, imo.

Oh I don't know, the truly vast salary he was paid would have kept him interested until something better came along, regardless of anything or anyone else at the club.

The three clubs I mentioned could be accused of stockpiling young talent. If they don't make it, they get sold at a good price.

At a lower level, Brentford, Brighton and Celtic have proved consistently successful at finding players and selling them at a good profit. Why can't we do this? We might even be able to keep some of them.

Our recruitment division consistently watched Van Dijk at Celtic, yet still managed to buy Funes Mori instead, for a similar price once his agent was paid!

Don't get me started on English football and the academy system, Darren! You will probably already have guessed that I'm going nowhere today, even though changing the subject away from Kenwright definitely won't make me sound any less boring!

Up the Toffees, even if I've never been so disillusioned with Everton, and to Evertonians everywhere, and even the Bill Kenwright plants on this very website. I hope better times are around the corner, for every single one of us. 💙

We were operating close to FFP limits because Moshiri made a series of poor managerial and DoF choices and backed them financially in order to achieve Europe.

Unfortunately for us, his gamble failed.

ps: On the "stoney ground" thing, feel free to use it anytime... though I think Dave may be a tad disappointed you don't seem to have heard of it before. 😊

In my London days, I worked with a lad who was an apprentice at Forest in Clough's last couple of years. He said he often saw him walking around telling everyone "I'll leave this club where I fucking found it."

He also bollocked him for wearing an earring – he said he was shaking for half an hour afterwards

Drunk or sober, the hamsters keeping the wheel spinning, protecting and looking after the work force and contributors, telling them everything will be okay and their jobs are safe.

Do they succeed or fail? That depends on the definition of what the leadership's intent and definition of success or failure is.

Everton's definition of success from the top seems to have been to stay afloat, keep heads above water, and don't rock the boat. Give us the odd good time so we can launch a DVD for a rare derby win.

The reality is that we have been failing for a club like Everton because there is a lack of leadership from the top.

Since we last won a league title and were second in the country only to our cousins with 9 to our name:

Manchester United: 7 now 20, plus countless other trophies and a redeveloped Old Trafford.
.
Arsenal: 8 now 13 plus countless other trophies and a brand new stadium.

Chelsea: 1 now 6 plus countless other trophies and a revamped Stamford Bridge.

Manchester City: 2 now 8. Likely to surpass us shortly and have exchanged the Kippax for the Etihad, where we go tomorrow. Many other trophies along the way.

Even Liverpool. Eventually won the league again, 2 Champions leagues and a few trophies along the way as well as Anfield now looking down at Goodison over Stanley Park. That hasn't escaped me when I make my way to the Arkles.

Keep blaming managers? They are not indefensible, but I guess we will have differing views on that. For me, the deep-lying problems start at the top and how the club is run. Those clubs I mention are transformed from when we last won a league title. And that's not because of the many managers who have come and gone.

Without wishing to go all political, would you blame the civil servant manager who organised the infamous Downing Street Covid Garden Party or look to Johnson who should have taken control and owned the situation?

Moshiri has failed to own his investment. Kenwright has failed over decades. Will change fix it tomorrow, next week or next year? I don't know. But continuously changing manager whilst the same culture remains at the top won't. It will continue in the downward spiral that has prevailed.

Sir John Moores, before my time, took ownership and done something about the situation. His famous quote still resonates. Look it up.

I will be positive tomorrow and get behind the team wanting 3 points. And on Tuesday. And up for the FA Cup next Friday.

I don't like being negative. But calling for the next Moyes, Big Sam or Dunc to save the day isn't the answer in my opinion. Far from it. It starts with a clear-out at the top and then a rinse out of the clogged up gutters of this club of ours.

Sorry.

My guess is that more players probably make the grade having been released from at least one academy, than players who stay at one academy and go all the way through, and a lot of years are wasted coaching talented kids from a very, very early age.

Evidence of the good things Bill Kenwright has done whilst being at Everton would make me believe I was debating with someone who was being serious, Brendan, because I don't believe for one minute that you're an idiot.

Bradley Lowery, that was a beautiful and sincere touch, but I'm obviously on about the football and a club that used to exist to win.

They went for a Brentford B Team, similar to the continental model in the likes of Germany and Spain. As I understand, the B Team doesn't compete in a league but plays matches against senior and U23 teams as well as competitive cup competitions.

They also have an exchange relationship with FC Midtylland in Denmark, which makes sense given their manager.

Earlier on in my business career, I worked with several long-established manufacturing organisations who hadn't changed and were clearly going bust. Everybody said they wanted to change, everybody said things on the lines of 'that sounds good, but wouldn't work here', the senior management/family owners often thought that they could survive on reputation and longevity. They usually didn't if they didn't change.

Sometimes I wonder whether that's the prevailing mindset at Everton. It struck me how shocked the staff were when I worked at City – the seemingly cosy culture had changed to one that demanded success and accountability.

That mindset doesn't cost a penny. It's all about the desire to improve everything.

He might have been an ex-player who hadn't long left but Liverpool was under a new regime and Carragher looked to be carrying a ‘You don't belong here anymore' type of demeanour, until he met a familiar face in one of the tea ladies.

It was only a little 5-minute video for the telly and, although everyone appeared friendly, it just felt like Liverpool had a "we are here to work" mentality. Without wanting to give them too much praise, since Jurgen Klopp and FSG joined Liverpool, that club has reeked of horrible (to us) professionalism.

I'm can be boring, I know, but anyone who underestimates professionalism has never been in a position to see how important it is, or for many of us, simply realised too late.

It wasn't long ago that you were telling us Carlo would reverse our fortunes. Now you are saying it was mission impossible.

It wasn't long ago you were defending Kenwright on these very pages. Now he's to blame for everything.

It wasn't long ago you were praising Moshiri for landing Carlo. Now you are blaming Kenwright because they both failed to deliver.

Sorry. Every point you have made are points I have heard or read dozens, maybe hundreds of times on here.

I know there is a bond on here between a small group and they stick to the same tune on this subject. I know there is no variation to that tune. I don't seek out the opinions of these posters because I already know it.

I prefer posters who bring something new to the table. Posters who question the relentless mantra. I particularly admire posters who risk being rounded upon and won't be put off speaking their mind.

I honestly believe that those who relentlessly try to persuade others that Kenwright is responsible for stuff he had nothing to do with, instead of focusing on the problems he actually caused, do him a very great favour.

Throw enough inaccurate accusations and people will start to question the validity of the legitimate ones.

They knew who they wanted, sacked Rogers, got Klopp and set things in motion after waiting patiently.

If I was in a position of influence at Everton, I'd go through everything they did with a microscope because they've streaked clear of us. Fitness, attitude, mindset, attention to detail, transfer policy, youth development – the lot.

Even if Klipperty struggles to replace Milner, Henderson & Salah, gets fed-up and leaves, they've got a foundation to build on.

I was taught to find out why competitors were more successful, what they were doing, how they were doing it, how could we do it? I'd like to see the same at Everton.

I thought Carlo might, as did many. Well done for your foresight. Bad on me for being hopeful. Happy Clapper I think was the phrase.

I'm quoted as not being as ferocious against both Kenwright and Moyes in the early years. I won't contradict or deny on that.

I said I'd take the names out of the equation. It's how the club has been run for decades. From the top down.

We'd get on fine, Darren.

0796 600 7546.

Drop me a message and we can meet for that drink. You can shout at me, but I think we'll be fine. Have a good New Year, starting with tomorrow.

Absolutely we can learn from this (and from other clubs who punch above their weight) and commence a similar journey.

Unfortunately the most immediate priority is staying up. If we can do that, then there's an opportunity to build a side worthy of the best stadium in the North West over a period of about 3 to 5 years.

That's too long a wait for many, I know, but without money, there's no alternative.

We definitely should be looking at Liverpool but this is impossible for a club that has been so badly managed and keeps having to change managers, meaning our team has had no stability whatsoever.

The other side of our club has kept a lot of the same faces, which should naturally mean that we are stable, but everyone can see that Everton are anything but stable.

Just one thing though: in any business, small or large, failure is always the result of poor stewardship from the top. Good standards and practices are followed by all the workforce if it's right at Board level. Transparency and a proper plan going forward will inspire all to work as one.

The CEO et al, are and have failed miserably, with or without money to throw at it, and should quite correctly be the first out the door – including any chairman.

Too many football clichés abound Everton FC, and not nearly enough business acumen. It's the 21st Century and sport is a global, trillion-pound business. Continual assessment and business plan adjustments and innovations are the criteria for any success.

If the business end is professionally coordinated and mutually accepted to be continually progressive, to the point that there is no ceiling to its success, the sporting side will thrive.

Nobody wants to work for a poorly run company – same as winners don't want to play in crap teams. Everton have both, unfortunately, and it was all so avoidable if the emotions had been left on the pitch and not taken into the boardroom.

Luvvy duvvy doesn't work in today's sport.

I'm not calling you out, son. I'm merely trying to point out that I feel your opinion has been swayed.

There is not a poster on this site who hasn't altered, changed or even done a full U-Turn on views they had previously expressed. Me included.

I know you are a passionate Evertonian and I look forward to swapping stories with you. As long as you can accept some of mine will be in black ad white.

We spent £30M on a 20-year-old who started 7 games in a poor French league last season, can anyone honestly say we'd have done any worse blooding Warrington or Price?

We spent £15M on a 26-year-old striker with an average goal scoring record, and kept hold of an ageing Venezuelan. Would we be doing any worse blooding Simms and Cannon?

We spent £20M on a slow winger with one assist last season after seeing Mills tear the place up pre-season. Would we have done any worse with Mills in the side?

£65M spent on 3 players who have not improved the team when we could have blooded some young players and, at the very least, increased all of their sales values.

We missed a trick when we refused to give our U20s a chance and let their careers stall in the U23s playing uncompetitive football. We need to be brave and not let this generation slip through the cracks as well. We can't moan about neighbours getting top dollar for young players while ours rot in U23 football.

Unfortunately, we're back in the position where it's deemed too risky to play a young player whereas we had a chance to do it 16 games ago.

Whoever the manager is next season, we need to clear out some of the average players on big money, but trust in what we have instead of forking out millions on average players just because they have Premier League experience.

Why? Because we can't attract the very best players or even keep a star that emerges within our team! How the hell are you going to match them when they just buy your best players? And this applies to all the other teams in the League.

The Premier League is a very different animal now to what it was even 15 to 20 years ago. Moshiri made stacks of money available to buy players but all we could attract was cast-offs that the best teams don't want. Thats our market.

What I will say is that our scouts looking for up-and-coming young talent have performed very poorly. That's one avenue that we need to do much better in.

Forgetting the past (hard to do, I know), but conentrate on the present. This organisation needs to make big changes at the top, because there is no point denying it, it is a failing business.

Who makes the decision to make the changes then? If it is the same people that reviewed in the last 12 months, then we have no hope of progress. There are people at the club that remain in place during years of failure so they are not going to improve the health status of this failing business.

Is it the owner? The owner appears to be both an absent owner, and an owner by proxy. He devolves his power to the cChairman, Board and CEO. Again, the same people at the club that have stood by and allowed the club to decline year in year out.

So we need both a new owner and a brand new board. New chairman new CEO. Then as an organisation, we might stop the decline.

The trouble with the current Chairman and CEO is they're so far up their own backsides that everything they say is full of shit.

Make no bones about it, the continuation of the same people in charge of this organisation will, in business speak, take it to the wall.

When you see the state of this organisation and how it's been allowed to deteriorate, it's sheer incompetence and gross negligence by those charged with running it.

It cannot be allowed to continue.

No, I am not Bill Kenwright!!

The thing about you, "son", is that you have been repeatedly, forcefully and openly taken to task by so many TWers for years on account of your boorish, arrogant, conceited disparagement of other TWer's personalities merely because they have a different opinion to you.

On matters Everton, you have support – but that's not enough for you to even try to stem your vitriol.

Your whole personality is almost always based on the ludicrous premise that everyone's out of step except you.

In that, you remind me of Kenwright – but even he doesn't personally abuse as you do.

Maybe the ever-accommodating Danny can introduce you to civilised behaviour – let's hope so!

I'd buy Tony the Bible but I know he wouldn't read it, and yet he used to make me smile when I went to see him play for Forest Youths and Reserve teams.

I'd watch when he came onto the field and bless himself every time — even though he hadn't been to church since he made his first Holy Communion.

Don't be giving me ammunition.

Getting a bit tiresome, my arse!

"It matters not a jot who is in the boardroom unless they have the financial clout to compete seriously."

Don't know what Moshiri and the £500M squandered is all about then.

"Beware simple conclusions… they often come from simple minds."

You said!

If you think £500M over the period puts you up with the big boys, 'tis you who is talking codswallop – as results emphatically show.

"Brendan, because it's obvious you're not the serious type"

You're beginning to sound like an ex-girlfriend of mine!

Sorry... couldn't resist.

On the serious point, I'm not quite sure where you are coming from.

Sure I'm prone to an attempt at (unsuccessful) humour perhaps more often than I should but, in the virtual bar that is ToffeeWeb, I'd rather be sitting with a crew who enjoy a bit of banter rather than the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future merchants.

My attitude to Kenwright is... I don't like the guy but I don't despise him either... so I don't feel any need to defend his tenure as I think you suggested earlier that I should.

Anyway, I have enjoyed debating with you through 2022 and a Happy New Year (again) to you and Dave with absolutely no strings attached!

But reading through the posts, I didn't realise we had a pro-Kenwright lobby.

One of the posters rightly took you to task over what our 'peers' are. And in looking through my rear-view mirror, I can see them in the distance. But we're heading in the other direction to join the likes of Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday.

We're a far, far, far, FAR bigger club than many of the teams around in the top flight but the reality is we're a pale imitation of what we used to be and that goes for what other clubs and their fans think we are. The reality is our own fan base are starting to understand now just how diminished we have become in the last quarter of a century or more.

The biggest problem for me, apart from the people that run the club, is that there is a great number of supporters who accept this 'level' for our football club. Where 8th was seen as a success and staving off relegation is an achievement.

But what do I know? When I last saw Everton win the league, only Liverpool had won the league more. It's telling that it's the last 30-odd years that has eroded our magnificent history, that is to say, made us look like a "small club". 15 major trophies now seems small. But we're still, even now, the 4th most successful when it comes to top-flight titles.

All the wins for Chelsea and Man City and they're still behind us (just). That shows how mightly we used to be. But let's defend Kenwright for his years of glory.

Everyone has different humour, Brendan, but it's true that the best thing in life is laughter. So, after today, I will never think about taking you seriously again, mate!

I just wish I could say the same about Everton. Although I've never felt so disillusioned with our club, hopefully soon, we will have reached our darkest hour and they can also begin to bring some happiness and laughter back into our lives.

How can anyone now take me serious, after reading that paragraph above? 👍

Blue Bill was a minority shareholder when the Saudis came calling... so they could have gained control of Everton even against Kenwright's wishes.

I'm not saying Kenwright didn't angle for a future role under the Saudis but, if they had really wanted Everton without Kenwright... there wasn't anything Blue Bill could have done to prevent it.

I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this [sorry, I'm way behind on reading some of these threads this week...] but you seem to be suggesting that Bill Kenwright lacked power or influence over major Everton decisions at Boardroom level back in 2008?

What you said about him being a minority shareholder is strictly true; however, you seem to use this fact to suggest that he would not have been a major decision-maker in any potential takeover or purchase by the Abu Dhabi United Group... (Who, incidentally, were definitely not Saudis!!!) I don't think that's true.

4 years earlier, control of the Everton Board of Directors was consolidated when Sir Philip Carter and Keith Tamlin stood down, leaving a compact entity of just four directors — three of them prime investors in Bill Kenwright's takeover of the club under True Bill Holdings — with Bill to steer the ship as the new Chairman.

I don't believe it is unreasonable to think that Kenwright as Chairman had complete control over the Board at that time – and indeed from at least 2004 to 2016... if not beyond. If the stories of Sheikh Mansour and Everton are at least remotely true, I have to say your analysis appears to be deeply flawed.

At no point did I suggest that Blue Bill would not have been a significant player in any takeover talks. I simply don't believe that, if the non-Saudis were earnestly interested, that they could not have found a way to sideline Blue Bill.

As Paul #180 suggests their interest was lukewarm to the extent that it didn't merit significant press coverage at the time.

Certainly my logic may be flawed... it often is... but deeply? Disagree.