Pickford's World Cup over as England again pay the penalty

So far they seem very comfortable. After the Swiss game I expected Portugal to run away with it

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Maradona was a cheating, druggy shit. Not to be compared with Pele, Cruyff or Messi

Morocco a very decent looking outfit though. I would imagine a lot of their player do or will play in the Spanish and French leagues due to geographical and historical connections. Not really looked into it, but they have some really good players. Beat Belgium and drew with Croatia. Now on the brink of knocking out Portugal.

debatable whether or not the foul continued inside the box, but it was deffo a foul. The referee must have seen it

Pickford already being scapegoated by Roy Keane What a surprise. The bandwagon is rolling.

It went through Bellinghams legs. He saw it late

Come on France attack a bit more and get that second goal.

I still fancy England in this.

So the French goal should have been chalked off and England should have had a pen.

Shame, but that’s football for you.

I hope they inject some life otherwise it's au revoir.

FUCK!!!!

Saka off??? Wtf

Correct penalty, definite foul, but no red because it didn't deny a goalscoring opportunity. Mount couldn't have reached that ball on a fire ladder.

Functional England progress out of a group of pub teams before coming unstuck against the first team with a bit of quality.

The absurdly lauded talisman, Harry Kane, completely missing the target with his second penalty is emblematic of England at international level.

England were very good tonight. No shame losing to this French team.

We actually dominated unusually and had many more shots on goal.

Agreed. Given the opponent, I don't think we could have done much more. Small details.

Fair play to France for being ruthless.

Incredibly close game and, with a bit of luck, would have beaten France, who will probably become the first team to retain the World Cup since Brazil in 1962.

I guess he thought Lloris would guess the right way, so just went for power and straight down the middle, unfortunately it was almost like a conversion kick, straight between the posts and over the bar.

C'mon Morocco.

We'd do well to remember, therefore, that there are no scripts of redemption or of triumph against the odds.

Not good enough is not good enough, and it may prove fatal.

And English fans wonder why nobody likes them.

I thought you played well, to be honest. Tight match against a very good French team, unlucky that Kane missed the penalty.

I hope England fans won't be too hard on your players, even if it's always funny to watch from an external perspective.

There is always a positive. At least I will now be able to stay for my pud. Thanks, Harry.

Kane joins the likes of Pearce, Waddle, Southgate & Co who bottle it from the penalty spot.

Roll on Boxing Day.

Not...

Also, Grealish and Rice played for Ireland and then left?
.

Compare and contrast the Griezmann cross bang onto Giroud's noggin whilst surrounded by 3 England defenders – we had nothing of that quality.

And then there is Mbappe!!

No-one really to blame. Just sad and damp.

I'll continue to enjoy the rest of the tournament, It's been a very welcome distraction.

But in the words of the late and very great Windsor Davies: "Oh dear. How sad. Never mind..."

And France still won.

Can't stand the "I'm scouse not English" bollocks, it's redshite verbal diarrhoea.

Had the header not been deflected, then I think it was going straight at Pickford who would have saved it. Fine margins indeed.

I never thought for one minute England would win that game, even if the pen went in. Negative manager who's obsessed with two holding midfielders every game.

A freak Kane miss, some dodgy refereeing and two moments of class from an otherwise stifled French team. A very tough defeat to take.

I would always choose an Everton trophy over an England trophy, but I'm absolutely gutted.

“Mbappe did nothing” — they were exactly my thoughts, and yet France found a way to win,.

Although England were the better team tonight, there is always something lacking when they meet one of the harder teams.

He bottles every important game by playing it safe. I hope he gets sacked and Roberto Martinez gets the job.

Looking forward to watching how Croatia and Morocco do in the World Cup semi-finals before proper football resumes on Boxing Day.

We just lose – time after time; different reasons for the defeat, sometimes we're okay/good and sometimes we're shite, but it's defeat all the same.

The younger people have much to understand.

Giroud who bizarrely always gets stick was there again just as he was winning Serie A with Milan aged 35! An underrated player if ever there was one. And of course another for the Everton list that we let get away!

I thought England were excellent after a nervous opening 10 mins, but everything went against us. Despite that, we had a golden chance to take it to extra time, but Kane's 2nd penalty was simply dogshit.

No chance!

Saka had a great game despite close attention. Ref was the difference. He only had eyes for France. Better team lost and it's not often you can say that as we have been too negative in the past.

Pick ourselves up and win the next Euros.

Mbappe did help create the first goal. But his lack of impact overall was down to some highly effective English defending. They had a plan for him and they carried it out.

Perhaps if England hadn't been so worried about Mbappe they would have paid more attention to the 2 goal scorers?

Personally I didn't think England were the best team – so no complaints about the result. If you win a penalty – and miss – you only have yourself to blame.

Looking forward to seeing how Morocco approach the semi-final.

The attack were not effective enough in creating chances from play; the French were. England did concentrate on Mbappe, but the French had alternatives.

We beat Germany at the Euros. Was that the one day they weren't in the Top 10?

That said, the rankings are bullshit.

Belgium number 2 and have never even reached a final? Ever! Denmark 10.

Plus Uefa rankings for the next Euros have last time's finalists in the same group! Netherlands and France in the same Euro group too while top seeds Switzerland get Israel as the second seed.

Same old story, a very good England team, but just lacking a killer instinct for the dare on the final pass, take the chance, look after the ball when in their box, and in-game management.

This World Cup has stoked the fire, Everton, always first priority, and going forward for Everton to take stock, adjust and beat Wolves.

There's a few ex crap players, now part-time media reporters on a few bob, citing Pickford will be off next summer. Fuck them, and if Pickford is sacrificed, make the suitors pay top rates, £100M.

Hopefully Coady will come back determined and focused and will be a permanent transfer. But let's, see.

“What's Our Name?”

UTFTs!

I'm not sure of their ranking, but we beat Germany at Wembley in the Euros, ie, at home. England's problem is beating Fifa Top-10 ranked teams in games played outside the UK, eg, today.

Whether the rankings are bullshit is irrelevant. Fact is England struggle against Top 10 teams in games played outside the UK – and always have.

Compare Kane's taking of the 2nd penalty with Messi yesterday. Messi - who has won lots of trophies - rolled his in while Kane ( who has never won anything) bottled it. England that!

Shaw needs replacing. I'd get Ben White and James Maddison into the starting XI once the qualifiers get underway. Still another centre-back needs to be nurtured into the side; otherwise, it's a solid young side that should be in semis and finals of all tournaments.

It's then how you get past the other side of fine margins being tactically astute and mentally stronger? Maybe that's the missing jigsaw piece and Southgate isn't the man.

I don't see how Maddison never started as he was on top form before the break, unless he was injured or there was other matters.

But time to regroup and go again.

Beat Wolves, and there's Everton and real purpose in football!

As entertainment, it's shite.

Tonight's stats reveal that we apparently "beat" France (goals aside unfortunately) in every category other than fouls conceded.

So what?

So what?! We failed to score from open play. Our now most prolific goal-scorer in history ballooned the crucial penalty way over the bar.

I don't really mind a penalty being saved by a keeper but to grossly miss the target to the extent he did speaks volumes in terms of unprofessional conditioning.

Like Everton, England are weak somewhere in our core – for decades.

But then they're entirely controlled by nonentity blazers who get fat and comfortable at the expense of "their/our" team who go on, decade after decade, indulging themselves despite perennial disappointment on the pitch (to put it mildly) regardless of the fan-base.

Sound familiar?

Same old.

Forget about Ben White. Apparently he hates football, is anti-social with the team, and left after getting into a row with Holland because he couldn't be bothered to learn anything about the USA team and wasn't interested in reviewing his own stats. Basically, another David Bentley.

Also, can you imagine two Everton players running round Goodison with World Cup winners medals? No, neither can I, sadly. Thanks, Harry, you big dumb klutz!!!

Hope Morocco, Argentina or Croatia win it, anyone but the Frogs.

Oh and Giroud's header came off the back of Maguire's back. And we should have had a second penalty, and the Frogs' first goal should have been disallowed for a foul in the build-up.

Eating frogs legs and snails, dirty bastards!

The twat dived for a pen against us this season.

What goes around comes around!

I wonder if there will be any movement on the alleged takeover during this period?

They all know their roles, what's expected of them, where they are supposed to be on the pitch etc... but the flair, creativity, the ability to do the unexpected, think on their feet has been drilled out of them.

I name the above because, due to their success, everyone has tried to copy their methods, even their footballspeak, eg action, park the bus. Everyone has to play out from the back, keeper sweepers, pass, pass, pass, retain possession at all costs – it goes on and on and on like the Everready bunny.

The individual has been sacrificed for the collective. The street footballer for the business-savvy athlete. The entertainer for the automaton.

Until we find our own way of releasing the undoubted talent some of our players have, we will continue to be perennial quarter-final losers. Bring back the mavericks!!

But maybe they were just acquiring respective home addresses to exchange Christian Christmas cards, eh, Bill?

Let the good times roll!

I don't know. Germany have had success with robots for decades. I can't think of a lot of world-class Germans but they won in 1990, 1996, 2014 with robots. Also a bit harsh blaming Pep for the maverick exit. The last we had was Gazza 30 years ago.

Le Tissier got one start then the game was abandoned and no one ever gave him another chance. Hoddle was another who was seldom used with Robson preferring his namesake.

Kieran, I could go back further. Currie, Hudson, Worthington, Bowles, Mckenzie all ignored by England managers.

You are what you are.

All this hype about a player who cannot pass a ball forward, just square and backwards.

He was shit. I challenge you to ask me why?

I'm not being nasty. I love my football. I'm better than Southgate.

Everton should sign Croatia's Gvardiol. What a player.

If Southgate goes, then I think England might go for a younger profile English coach.

My money is in Henry VIII (aka Wayne Rooney). Now that would be a fun watch. I'd even buy popcorn.

My bigger worry is that Southgate comes here if Frank gets canned.

There's not a lot of candidates. If he does go, I could see the FA going for Howe but would he walk away from Newcastle? I'm not so sure. But I think he will stay.

He said before he'd stay until he's not wanted. The BBC claim 100% of their pundits want him to stay, plus the FA. Moreover there's no obvious club opening for him.

Chile beat Argentina (Copa)
Chile beat Argentina (Copa)
West Germany beat Argentina (WC)
Germany beat Argentina (WC)

I guess this is a legacy of earliest childhood memories being of the Falklands War and the first World Cup I watched having the Hand of God. So I'm hoping Argentina get to the final so they can lose. Again.

If Argentina meet France in the final, they will be well beaten.

Get in their faces and show the opposition we're here to win, not falling over at the slightest touch from the opposition.

Yes, the ref was crap, but we could have won that game by imposing ourselves on the opposition. Southgate is also too nice, and will continue at the helm, sweep through the Euro qualifiers to await our next quarter-final exit.

Oh well, roll on Boxing Day and Wolves, Kenwright plotting his next windfall at our expense, and another relegation battle which we will survive (again).

Until BK goes mediocrity will remain.

I would like to see Argentina win the tournament for Messi's sake. It would crown a great career for a player we are unlikely to see the likes of again.

Having said that, I think overall France are the best team in the World Cup

It's surprising to some but people who know Wayne Rooney stop and listen when he talks about football tactics, apparently he is very astute when it comes to football and how it is played or should be played.

I hope Kenwright isn't reading this; then again, Wayne might do better than some of those who have tried and failed or just done one for a much easier position.

On Declan Rice, I have often chatted with a friend of mine who is a big West Ham supporter. I never got the hype about Declan Rice initially, but he's grown on me. I see him as a midfield enforcer. Not too dissimilar to Gueye, but I think he has a bit more craft about him. I wouldn't judge him on one game and wouldn't be surprised to see him move in the near future.

I'll link your comment about robots to that of Kieran's about Germany. Kieran, I'll give you Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller. His more recent namesake isn't too shabby. Matthaus, Klose, Rummenigge, Poldolski, Neuer, Kroos.

There is a long list. Maybe not world class, but there are 2 things with Germany, Yes, functional and yes, almost robotic-like, although that 2010 and 2014 team was exciting to watch. In transition now, but they consistently produce high quality players that forge very functional teams.

I wouldn't blame Pep for England's robotic approach; only 9 of the City's 25-man squad are English. Only 4 of them were in the World Cup squad and only 3 of them started last night, 2 of them defenders. I would hardly call Stones robotic; ask the Park End.

On the match, France looked dominant up until the first goal – and what a goal that was. A beautiful sweeping strike from distance that was always going away from the keeper. That seemed to wake England up and they were unlucky not to get something out of the game.

I was surprised that no decision at all was given for the trip on Kane. It wasn't a penalty, but it should have at least been a free kick in a dangerous position. I didn't need to look as I watched the game, but the stats show that England edged the game. More shots, more shots on target, more corners, higher % of possession. But the classic "take your chances when they come" analogy comes to mind. France took theirs.

England were playing the best international football team in the world at this time. They may not be the most pure, but they are strong. And Griezmann is a joy to watch. For periods of the game he was pulling the strings in the middle and drifting around the park. Difficult to play against a player like that.

Darren @117 and Jeff @120. I don't do the England thing, but I don't dislike them. But neither do I do the "Scouse not English" thing. I leave that to our cousins even though a high percentage of them who carry that mantle come from Norway, Ireland and Devon.

No disrespect to anyone from those countries or Devon, it just grates me; it's embarrassing. My indifference to England is my family background and also my service; I identify as British, like it says on my passport and the flag I served under.

And on that topic, the BBC doesn't help. The amount of times throughout this tournament I've heard them say "we" when referring to England but then "Wales" when referring to Wales. Might as well rebrand themselves as the EBC.

If – and I think it would be more dangerous to just try another manager at this stage of the season – we sacked our manager, Wayne Rooney might just be a man to do a job for EFC, assuming he was given time of course, and some financial backing.

ps: I didn't watch the World Cup, but was surprised to learn that Maddison didn't play. He tore us to shreds.

The comment above about Martinez.

If Southgate throws in the towel, I hope they (England) do go for Martinez. I could just see a scenario where Southgate walks, England approach Lampard (young English coach), who couldn't or wouldn't turn it down, paving the way for a Martinez return that had been rumoured prior to Lampard's appointment.

I wouldn't be averse to Rooney. Nervous? Yes. But I was about Lampard.

If that were to happen, I just hope it is after Kenwright is gone. Because you can just see the fanfare and tears as Bill welcomes his boy back home again. The boy he sold down the river for a shilling and magic beans, whilst his boy was painted as the pantomime villain.

I don't know why, but I just have an instinct that Southgate's decision may play a role in the Everton manager position.

I hope that photo of the Sheik and Mr Moshiri was more than pleasantries and a catch up. I can't see the Qataris not wanting to be involved in football after this tournament.

On Declan Rice, he is a holding midfielder who is very comfortable on the ball, links play until there is enough movement ahead to deliver a telling pass. I think he is a class act.

Jerome,

I totally agree. In the game against Senegal, I thought Bellingham was also a class act but he was up against a different class of team tonight. England let themselves feel victimised, hence losing focus and not taking on the battle to win the game.

Bellingham typified that mentality by constantly moaning at the ref instead of keeping his focus on how he could drive the team forward to win the battle and the game.

I think Morroco prove that you can have less talented players collectively than the opposition but still play the ball through the lines from front to back at pace.

I think France's 2nd goal sums up how negative thinking can cost you goals: we cleared the ball well from the corner yet only had 1 man trying to close down their player in possession who had time to play it wide to Griezmann who played a lovely ball into Giroud to head home from the 6-yard box.

Now, when we cleared the corner, the whole team should have been moving to the 18-yard line which stops Griezmann being able to find Giroud in our 6-yard box, simple stuff that could have prevented a goal. But our defence didn't move out and paid the price.

Football is very close now, there's quite a few countries that could beat each other on any given day, but can anyone score past Morocco!?

I think Morocco might have been a tough game. No one's scored (apart from one own goal) against them in the whole competition so far.

I'd rather lose to France than Morocco, though, even if it was a round earlier. Mbappe and Griezmann are a joy to watch even if the former was kept fairly quiet last night.

Good luck to Morocco for the remainder of the tournament.

Would have liked to see Rashford and Grealish much sooner, but the wait continues. Euros next, and this is a qood England squad.

Nah…

Opinions, eh.

That's Southgate's problem, he doesn't use his very talented squad! Now I know we are all wannabe football managers but his timidity, late subs, loyalty to underperforming players etc has cost us three times now in key games.

The second half surrenders against Croatia (2018) and Italy (Euros) and his taking off Saka for Sterling show, imo, his naïveté or stubbornness to make the correct adjustments.

I'm no fan of Jack Grealish with his constant diving but he should've come on earlier to get us a few more free kicks around the box. Trippier or Alexander-Arnold should've come on to take those free-kicks if nothing else. Rashford should also have been sent on earlier as Kane was going deeper and deeper.

Southgate is a nice, decent man but nice, decent people don't win things in competitive, cutthroat sports. His insistence on the slow build-up from the back, his refusal to play creative players like Maddison instead of solid, dependable Henderson, his loyalty to a core group of players will always be his downfall.

I don't know if he'll stay or go and neither do I have a replacement in mind – Cooper from Forrest? At least he's won a trophy with some of these lads. All I know is that I doubt I will ever see Everton or England win another major trophy in my lifetime.

I thought I was the only one who thought that about Rice. A very average player who gets smoke blown up his arse by various media outlets. Baffling, it really is.

At least with Frank, there is some attempting to play open attacking play, though the Everton players have the same mentally as Southgate. Keeping themselves in their well-paid jobs, by doing as little as possible to minimise risk and exposure.

I give it to Southgate that he is better than them at it, since no-one has attempted to hang him yet.

Harry Kane wants to be NFL kicker

I don't think Grealish dives. He gets fouled a lot. He gets the decisions because he's an English media darling in my opinion.

Richarlison was called a diver for doing exactly what Grealish does; draws contact and because of the pace he is moving at, the fall looks worse than it was. But fouls. Think back to Andy Johnson. Similar. Yet once Mourinho had preached to his then adoring media, that was it, he was branded.

Second count. We are going to see Everton we a trophy in our lifetime. England? I don't really care either way.

At Villa, he was a free spirit who had free rein to create and score goals. Under Guardiola and Southgate this has been drilled out of him and his only purpose seems to be fouled in and outside of the box.

As for your last point. I've been fortunate enough to see Everton and England achieve glory. That's in the laps of the football gods.

I posted last week people would think I was mad, being worried about Southgates approach to the game, after getting them to the Euro final, and a World Cup quarter final.

I am not one of those told you so and happy to be proved right people, many more will have had the same fear I had, I simply hilighted what could cost us, and that if we changed the approach, lose the fear factor, and go straight at them, we would beat the French, sadly we took the safety first approach.

I had no doubt we had the players to go much further, I was worried about Southgates tactics and subs.

England played a lot better after they went a goal down, simply because they had to attack, as soon as they levelled, we switched straight back to pedestrian boring football, then to take Saka off was crazy, anyway even after being level, Southgate should have thrown Rashford and Grealish on at 1 all, pushed the French back and gone for a winner.

It was like the Italy game all over again, dominated until going a goal up, then Italy respond putting subs on, England over run but still no subs put on, putting Rashford on for the last 5 minutes, Grealish even less is ridiculous, even more so Maddison not even getting a run out.

Once again Southgate bottled it against decent opponents, we had the players to compete, after some of the other teams that had fallen, England had a huge chance of at least getting to the semi final or further, safety first and a extra time and penalty shoot out as a safety net was enough to not at least try to go and win the game, and that is purely down to the Managers negative approach.

A very pissed off Mike Bassett.

Everton in the later Moyes years when the chances were there. Chelsea 2009, okay, outplayed by a better team. But Wigan at Goodison in the FA Cup and that semi-final that was there for the taking. We choked and gagged at the prospect of winning.

Colin, I just commented about Zaha on the other thread. There is element of that with Grealish. Top dog at Villa, but now surrounded by superstar footballers and not guaranteed a start.

Health warning as I'm going into repetitive mode. The problem for England is deeper than foreign coaches at our clubs putting shackles on players. And I certainly wouldn't accuse Pep of that. If anything, I often wonder what formation Man City are actually playing!!

If your grass roots doesn't have a system geared to support the pyramid, including the national side at the top it, then it will fail. And it has to be one that is built and sustained over years to continuously churn out players of the desired standard.

England has a really good crop of young players that will get better.

But as with the so-called Golden Generation, It happens by chance rather than foresight and planning, which is more of a fingers crossed, hope that a few good players happen to come through at the same time approach.

I think it's getting better, but it will be interesting to see if it sustains or yet another generation peters out.

England are were they are in terms of finish. There are some positives. Jordan Pickford dare I say?

Bellingham I thought had a good tournament. Yes, last night against top opposition, he didn't look as good. Natural for a 19-year-old still learning, especially when you've got a player like Griezmann roaming around on a free pass.

It will be interesting to see if Bellingham stays with Dortmund next season or is enticed to the Premier League. I've heard vicious rumours Liverpool could be his destination. That would make sense given the links with Klopp.

Here endeth my Mike Bassett moment!!

Haha...I'm going to sound like an ould git, reminiscing now!

In the late fifties and sixties. nearly every oller (bombed ground) had kids playing matches, and playing with whatever they could get their hands on, and highly unlikely to be a casey. There was also lots of amateur (usually pub or firm or club, or even street) local football leagues that went on in every city and town.

I think the development in the early crucial years was much more natural than it has become. There always, in every team in the Football League had local lads and a mixture of Welsh, Scottish and Irish lads in the club.

I look at the First Division in the sixties and every club had a contingent of top players from the four countries. There weren't many clubs who won much without a sprinkling of masterful players from Scotland, Wales or Ireland in them.

Our footballers seem to have become so predictable in their thinking, that we are a bit too regimented at the expense of a bit of genius.

Please don't remind me us of Wigan at Goodison in the FA Cup and that semi-final that was there for the taking.

Those matches were the final straw for me with Moyes. I can still see the crowd stunned as Wigan scored their third, with a semi v Millwall waiting.

I agree with every word. No subs until France scored their second.

Certainly should have started Mount or Maddison over Henderson, who I can only suppose was there to keep Grizeman quiet. That went well. Final straw was the introduction of Sterling.

Jim, you're on the money. Over-coached at too young an age in a system that favours the few. An elite system that excludes rather than includes.

You are spot on about the games that still haunt me, never have Everton had a better chance than that semi, we were the form team, even Red fans were unusually worried, we got the goal then bottled it big time.

Even now under Frank, the set-up reminds me so much of England's slow pedestrian build-up, then panic late on, throwing subs on too late, instead of acting when you can see, clear as daylight, changes need to be made earlier.

The only time I saw Frank act earlier with subs was the Palace game last season. Even then, we were 2 goals down, but he made the changes and had plenty of time to grasp the game back.

Too many times, I've seen Everton struggling but still no tactical changes until it is too late; then panic sets in and you see three subs thrown on at the same time.

With 5 subs allowed, if you can see the set-up needs tweaking, why not throw two subs on, still have a further three if needed for later on. Why leave it until around the 70-minute mark before making your first sub? Drives me mad the way we are slow to react to danger.

I have been watching Declan Rice and I see the same pattern of play. Square and back passes. On numerous occasions, he had the ball with no-one near him.

Viera, Kean, Koeman and many more wouldn't just pass it back or square. The lad is a good player for his struggling club but, in my opinion, not good enough for England.

Maguire was caught out for the 2nd goal; he should never have started, considering he's only a sub for Man Utd.

Maddison has been outstanding this season, very attack-minded, and he picks the defensive Henderson. Sterling has been so poor for Chelsea, and he brings him on.

Southgate still picks his old favourites unfortunately. It's hard to look beyond France now; I don't think Argentina are strong enough.

A lot of good sense spoken above by many posters. What defines Southgate's shortcomings was his decision to bring on Stirling.

Out of form, ineffective and surely affected by the issues at home and the travel. There is no basis upon which it can be justified other than misplaced loyalty.

I have to say that you keep miserable fuckers like me staggering along with your relentless optimism.

When you say that we'll win a trophy "in our lifetime" to whose lifetime, exactly, are you referring? I'm 75, you're about 50 I think. And we have late 80-year-olds on here. Let us hope that the sets can intersect.

I'll see you at Wembley and the 10th title is coming to BMD.

I can't help myself.

Agree on your assessment of Southgate Peter. If he can just let go, release the shackles and trust the players, he could achieve something. A quarter final is not an achievement no matter how "proud" the FA are.

On Rice and Grealish, Ireland have snapped up a lot of Northern Irish players much to the annoyance of Michael O’Neill. Then we have Musiala, Musa and Lookman all playing at England youth levels then switching allegiance. Zaha played for us then switched. Hodgson gave Jenkinson a token cap cause he was going to switch to Finland. The fact is that most people have mixed ancestry and few are die hard patriots so they switch nations as they would clubs based on which represents the best opportunity. Cash for Poland being an example or Andy Townsend who said he had no idea he could play for Ireland until he got called up.

I go along with what Brian H said @171, but also think it's up to the goalkeeper to get his defenders out, and think that Pickford sometimes still falls short in this area of his overall much improved game?

In other words, if we're desperate enough for funds and got our eyes on a goal SCORER (sorry Michael) and a supplier, then I think our reserve goalie is decent enough for us and we should sell Pickford for the funds and our future.

The English FA are happy with Southgate, a Moyes-type holding manager that is not going to win anything. He is even managing the post-match post mortem by saying he is taking time to consider his position.

He will quietly decided to stay once the media is out of the way.

I think it was Wenger who branded Johnson a diver and not Mourhino.

But as you rightly said that was it then, he didn't get anything. Big club influence again.

I'd point to Joachim Löw, assistant to Klinsmann in 2006. Then semis and final losses in 2008, 2010, 2012 and he was the nearly man. But got over the line in 2014.

I think Southgate has evolved. Two years ago, he never would have picked anything but a back-five defensive line-up for the France game. He was braver than the Euros which he blew being negative.

I can't see Germany winning the Euros and, Mbappe apart, some of the key French players are old. I think we could win it. Spain have no pace or goals, Italy pensioned off the Euro winners, Portugal will surely retire Ronaldo and Pep, Holland have one good player and surely Croatia can't go on pushing 40?

Also the same when we played USA, despite that protest starting in their own country, they didn't bother to take the knee.

So I think the question is: Has this campaign now past its sell-by date?

Like Moyes has relegation on his CV, and here he is, over £4 million a year contract to manage England.

The nose-candy obviously removed what little sense he previously had. He's a class-A tit.

Pickford was to blame for the second goal too according to Fabio Capello. He said Pickford hitting balls long invited pressure and caused England to crack.

I saw a security guard was killed in Qatar after a fall yesterday. Presumably wouldn't have happened if Pickford had caught him.

Pickford started hitting long balls because he had no faith whatsoever in playing short passes to either Maguire or Shaw. Stones and Kyle Walker are technically gifted in playing the ball around at the back because of the way Man City play under Pep, but Maguire and Shaw……no chance.

I also see some RS are complaining that Trent Arnold didn't get much of a look-in. Jeez, I doubt England would have got out of the group if that useless piece of shit had been playing.

I think the team read Southgate's script, which had us shit-scared of Mbappe and concentrating on containment rather than control. The guy is good at getting to the latter stages, but then he is out of his comfort zone.

A nice, media-freindly fellow who is a joy to work with but not a winner.

England have the most frightening attacking options on the planet atm... but they ain't no team as yet. If Page picks Bale and Ramsey for the next Wales game, I'll just turn it off the telly and read ToffeeWeb!

Fuck 'em,that rousing speech by the actor Michael Sheen might as well have done it in front of his dressing room mirror... jeez!

The Gooners have shown the way forward, play your young players and just be fucking brave!