Pickford's World Cup over as England again pay the penalty

10/12/2022 208comments  |  Jump to last

Jordan Pickford and Conor Coady will soon be on their way back to Merseyside after England were knocked out of Qatar 2022 at the Quarter Final stage by reigning champions, France.

A trademark centre-forward's header by Olivier Giroud handed Didier Deschamp's men victory as Harry Kane blazed a late chance to force extra time over the crossbar after the referee and awarded the Three Lions a penalty for a shove on Mason Mount.

Becoming the first player to earn 50 England caps as an Everton player, Pickford entered the game looking to equal Peter Shilton's tournament record of 10 clean sheets but was beaten in the 17th minute by a wicked Aurélien Tchouaméni effort that was struck from 30 yards out and bent away from the goalkeeper's despairing dive.

England responded as they had to and should have been awarded a penalty late in the first half when Kane was tripped going into the box but their appeals were waved away by the main match official and there was no help either from the Video Assistant Referee.

Article continues below video content

Gareth Southgate's men were rewarded for their adventurism with less than 10 minutes gone in the second half, though, when Bakayo Saka was felled in the area by Tchouaméni and Kane stepped up to rap a spot-kick past his club-mate, Hugo Lloris.

England were the better side in the second period but struggled to carve out genuine;y clear-cut chances, although Harry Maguire grazed the post with a header and Lloris had to be at his best to deny Kane.

With the likes of Kylian Mbappé playing the role of enabler rather than assassin and Antoine Griezemann pulling the strings in midfield, France always carried a threat, however, and so it proved when Griezemann whipped a perfect ball in from the left and Giroud got in ahead of Maguire to bury a powerful header inside the near post.

England pushed and were given their chance to take the game to another 30 minutes but Kane, normally so deadly from the spot, got underneath the ball and then watched in agony as his second penalty flew too high over Lloris's goal.

The earlier quarter final had produced the shock of the day when Morocco stunned Portugal, Ronaldo, and the watching world to grab a place in the last four against France with a typical defensive masterclass at one end and a smash-and-grab at the other.

Youssef En-Nesyri rose high to head a deep cross past Diego Costa in the Portuguese goal to give Morocco the lead and despite having a man sent off with five minutes still to go in stoppage time, they held on to become the first African nation to ever qualify for the World Cup semi-finals. 

15:00 Morocco 1 - 0 Portugal – ITV 1
19:00 England 1 - 2 France – ITV 1



Reader Comments (208)

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Rob Halligan
1 Posted 10/12/2022 at 15:42:11
Morocco ahead.
Kieran Kinsella
2 Posted 10/12/2022 at 15:52:25

So far they seem very comfortable. After the Swiss game I expected Portugal to run away with it

Neil Tyrrell
3 Posted 10/12/2022 at 15:54:17
Portugal looking very frustrated, ref not buying their being mortally wounded after every tackle
Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 10/12/2022 at 15:57:20
Anyone else think Fernandez, would have got that penalty if he was playing for Man Utd?
Rob Halligan
5 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:00:17
Only via VAR Tony. Didn’t seem to be any contact, but VAR would have found a touch somewhere.
Neil Tyrrell
6 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:01:18
Against Everton yes, Tony.

VAR checking badge

Gerry Quinn
7 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:02:32
Morocco can't half move that ball about, especially right hand side of defence
Charles Brewer
8 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:03:26
I understand Peter Reid said if he’d been on the same stuff as Maradona, he’d have caught him easily.

Maradona was a cheating, druggy shit. Not to be compared with Pele, Cruyff or Messi

Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:09:00
Everton legend Samuel Eto’o predicted Morocco would reach the final before the WC. Granted he said Cameroon would beat them in them in the final
Kieran Kinsella
10 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:10:20
The winker is on
Rob Halligan
11 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:13:34
For his 197th cap. How can a player manage that many caps? He’d have to have played constantly for about twenty years, earning at least ten caps a year.
Tony Everan
12 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:25:39
Rob it’s incredible isn’t it. He’s been around a long time. Tim Howard was the Man Utd goalie when he made his debut there nearly twenty years ago and it’s seems like a lifetime since he left Everton.
Danny O’Neill
13 Posted 10/12/2022 at 16:43:29
Just not happening for Portugal.

Morocco a very decent looking outfit though. I would imagine a lot of their player do or will play in the Spanish and French leagues due to geographical and historical connections. Not really looked into it, but they have some really good players. Beat Belgium and drew with Croatia. Now on the brink of knocking out Portugal.

Michael Kenrick
14 Posted 10/12/2022 at 18:56:46
Let's hope this works tonight!
Jeff Armstrong
15 Posted 10/12/2022 at 18:57:48
Picks due a rick?
Will Mabon
16 Posted 10/12/2022 at 18:58:40
Cringers Fossed, Michael.
Kieran Kinsella
17 Posted 10/12/2022 at 18:59:22
2-2 draw
Will Mabon
18 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:06:54
You could see that flag coming for 30 seconds.
Jeff Armstrong
19 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:08:57
Will, I think Maguire is a bit dim, started and finished offside on that free kick
Will Mabon
20 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:12:38
Jeff - was very amateur.
Mark Ryan
21 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:15:40
Sideways, backwards, slightly forward, sideways, backwards, slightly forward. Just like watching Everton this dross ffs
Will Mabon
22 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:17:37
...and we're off.
Kieran Kinsella
23 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:17:50
Walking around pointless back passes. Boom. The one defensive midfielder for France scores.
Bill Gall
24 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:18:03
well you will give them room
Will Mabon
25 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:18:16
Mark - business as usual.
Jeff Armstrong
26 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:18:36
Dixon was dying to blame Pickford there.
Will Mabon
27 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:21:19
Tony Hill
28 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:22:47
I’m afraid I thought Pickford could have done better.
Kieran Kinsella
29 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:25:27
Obvious error
Kieran Kinsella
30 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:26:02
Who do FIFA want to win?
Will Mabon
31 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:27:37
Would love to hear the explanation for that one.
James Flynn
32 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:28:20
So what exactly is a penalty?
Kieran Kinsella
33 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:28:21
I think it was outside the box so they only call it if it’s in the box
Mike Gaynes
34 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:30:33
Correct, Kieran. Ref missed the foul but it wasn't a pen, and VAR only applies to a pen/no pen call there.
Will Mabon
35 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:31:31
That was a corner.
Jeff Armstrong
36 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:32:13
Henderson is too slow to be playing wide of a 3, he should swap with Bellingham.
Will Mabon
37 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:39:23
Why is Henderson on the field?
Kieran Kinsella
38 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:41:28
Dembele Griezman and Rabiot can’t tackle. We should exploit that by getting a player on instead of Gomes Henderson
Kieran Kinsella
39 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:42:55
Griezman has had about five bad fouls
Michael Kenrick
40 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:50:38
Froggies are just too clever for the dumb English, who fall over as soon as the feel any contact. Not showing anywhere near enough forward initiative.
Rob Halligan
41 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:50:52
Get Henderson off, he’s shite.
Darren Hind
42 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:58:37
How the fuck could anybody look at that tackle on Kane and not see a foul is beyond me.

debatable whether or not the foul continued inside the box, but it was deffo a foul. The referee must have seen it

Pickford already being scapegoated by Roy Keane What a surprise. The bandwagon is rolling.

It went through Bellinghams legs. He saw it late

Neil Tyrrell
43 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:59:17
Kevin Kilbane on TSN been dying to have something to blame Pickford for, he's in his element now. Dickhead.
Kunal Desai
44 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:59:51
Bent Columbian ref. Probably snorted up on cocaine.
Dave Abrahams
45 Posted 10/12/2022 at 19:59:58
I think the French are defending that one goal lead too much,they are concentrating on defending more than attacking and I think they will make a mistake that will lead to a goal for England and if Maddison comes on for Henderson that could also increase Englands chances of getting that goal.

Come on France attack a bit more and get that second goal.

Will Mabon
46 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:00:54
So far, the same old over-cautious, lethargic and nervous offering so often seen before. Going forward, look the most toothless of any team seen in the quarters.
Tony Hill
47 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:01:09
Ball kept moving away from Pickford for the goal so I was wrong to blame him. Was he, though, a touch slow to move his feet?

I still fancy England in this.

Rob Halligan
48 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:02:04
Darren, VAR cannot give a foul. If they thought the foul was committed inside the area then it’s a penalty, but they are not there to “Give Fouls”. It was a definite foul though. Regards the goal, I thought Pickford had no chance. The ball was curling away from him all the time. I don’t think any keeper would have saved it.
Christy Ring
49 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:02:47
It's easy to blame Pickford, but the ball went through the defender's legs, right into the corner, hadn't a chance. Bring on Mount, Rice is enough as defensive midfielder.
Michael Lynch
50 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:02:49
Clear pen. It was on the line, and it was a foul. Also clear foul on Saka.

So the French goal should have been chalked off and England should have had a pen.

Shame, but that’s football for you.

Michael Lynch
51 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:04:27
Whatever the VAR calls though, this ref is dogshit. Sadly that’s been the case in a number of games
David McMullen
52 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:06:04
I just want to talk about the football, it's so boring and slow.

I hope they inject some life otherwise it's au revoir.

Kieran Kinsella
53 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:06:48
Dembele or Griezman could get a red if we keep running at them
Michael Lynch
55 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:12:15
England superb so far second half. Clear pen again
Kieran Kinsella
56 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:12:25
Just keep dribbbling and we will get pens and them sent off
Kieran Kinsella
57 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:13:47
Bill Gall
58 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:14:00
Good move to bring a penalty Kane scores
David McMullen
59 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:14:18
Looks like they heard me
Kieran Kinsella
60 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:14:26
The Holgate of France scores then gives away a penalty
Jeff Armstrong
61 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:14:47
Get in
Will Mabon
62 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:15:19
Kieran :-)
Kunal Desai
63 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:15:57
Top save JP
Kieran Kinsella
64 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:25:59
Rabiot should be carded
Will Mabon
65 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:26:06
Ref's got a frog in his pants.
Kieran Kinsella
66 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:35:35
This is very stressful
Michael Kenrick
67 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:37:08
Fantastic Save!
Mark Ryan
68 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:37:09
Well saved JP
Will Mabon
69 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:37:43
How's that for ya, Keano?
Jamie Crowley
70 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:38:09
From a dock somewhere in Georgia fishing…


Will Mabon
71 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:38:14
Kieran Kinsella
72 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:38:19
Totally undeserved
Michael Kenrick
73 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:38:21
Then again…
Jeff Armstrong
74 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:39:10
Maddison should be on before Mount

Saka off??? Wtf

Michael Lynch
75 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:39:52
Why take off Saka?
Will Mabon
76 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:40:09
Now is the test of the mettle.
Will Mabon
77 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:41:06
Michael, if he's not injured then that's a mad decision.
Jamie Crowley
78 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:41:11
That’s a fucking pen all day long!!!
Will Mabon
79 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:42:02
Got to be.
Jamie Crowley
80 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:42:49
Ref = fucking crap. Hot steaming crap
Bill Gall
81 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:44:05
Why was it not a red card or is the penalty the justice, Kane misses
Michael Kenrick
82 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:44:27
Jamie Crowley
83 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:44:30
Harry launches a satellite. 😭
Will Mabon
84 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:44:43
Kieran Kinsella
85 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:45:02
Why is it always bloody penalties?
Will Mabon
86 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:45:35
Kane joins the pizza club.
Michael Kenrick
87 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:46:24
I don’t think it should have been given anyway – the ball was sailing well over his head.
Will Mabon
88 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:47:18
Michael, that's irrelevant to the decision.
Bill Gall
89 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:48:25
France will now start "They shall not pass!"
Chris Leyland
90 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:49:04
Michael – that is a bizzare comment. A foul is a foul regardless of where the ball was going
Will Mabon
91 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:49:17
Mike Gaynes
92 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:51:41
If England don't score here, that penalty will likely be the defining moment of Kane's career.

Correct penalty, definite foul, but no red because it didn't deny a goalscoring opportunity. Mount couldn't have reached that ball on a fire ladder.

Michael Lynch
93 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:53:39
Jesus, this ref is useless.
Kieran Kinsella
94 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:56:41
I guess we can get back to focusing on the joy that is Everton!
Jeff Armstrong
95 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:58:04
Any manager who brings on Mason Mount before Grealish or Maddison when trying to win a cup tie deserves everything he gets. Taking Saka off was criminal too.
Will Mabon
96 Posted 10/12/2022 at 20:58:53
Jeff, agreed. Steady choice always the default.
Brendan McLaughlin
97 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:00:49
Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité
Barry Rathbone
98 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:01:02
Same old story.

Functional England progress out of a group of pub teams before coming unstuck against the first team with a bit of quality.

The absurdly lauded talisman, Harry Kane, completely missing the target with his second penalty is emblematic of England at international level.

Will Mabon
99 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:02:07
Barry, it happens to them all, but it always happens to England.
Michael Lynch
100 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:02:11
Feel for Kane.

England were very good tonight. No shame losing to this French team.

Kieran Kinsella
101 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:02:28

We actually dominated unusually and had many more shots on goal.

Kieran Kinsella
102 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:05:39

Agreed. Given the opponent, I don't think we could have done much more. Small details.

Fair play to France for being ruthless.

Michael Lynch
103 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:05:44
Yes, Kieran, I don't think you can bash England.

Incredibly close game and, with a bit of luck, would have beaten France, who will probably become the first team to retain the World Cup since Brazil in 1962.

Will Mabon
104 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:05:56
Keane is right there – France found a way to win. This is something England always struggle with: belief.
Rob Halligan
105 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:06:53
I think Kane was in two minds as to where to put that second penalty. He always puts it into a corner, and any other goalkeeper other than his club goalie, he would have put it into a corner.

I guess he thought Lloris would guess the right way, so just went for power and straight down the middle, unfortunately it was almost like a conversion kick, straight between the posts and over the bar.

Jeff Armstrong
106 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:07:21
Ah well, not nearly as arsed as when Everton get beat, so that's that then.

C'mon Morocco.

Michael Lynch
107 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:09:35
Aye, back to reality now, and a relegation battle to be won – again.
Tony Hill
108 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:09:37
England just aren't good enough when it matters. In that, they remind me of our team.

We'd do well to remember, therefore, that there are no scripts of redemption or of triumph against the odds.

Not good enough is not good enough, and it may prove fatal.

Rob Jones
109 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:09:58
"Pub teams".

And English fans wonder why nobody likes them.

I thought you played well, to be honest. Tight match against a very good French team, unlucky that Kane missed the penalty.

I hope England fans won't be too hard on your players, even if it's always funny to watch from an external perspective.

Neil Lawson
110 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:11:01
We have Christmas Dinner out booked for next Sunday. Didn't realise when booking that it was the final and the kick off time.

There is always a positive. At least I will now be able to stay for my pud. Thanks, Harry.

Mike Doyle
111 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:16:20
Apparently, England have never, in their history, beaten a FIFA Top 10 ranked team in any tournament away from home in the knock out phase. France are ranked 4th so… business as usual.

Kane joins the likes of Pearce, Waddle, Southgate & Co who bottle it from the penalty spot.

Roll on Boxing Day.

Bill Gall
112 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:19:41
Wonder how they are going to blame Pickford for that?
Kim Vivian
113 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:20:22
Well, at least Pickford's going to be back for all the preparation and friendly games we have lined up before getting back to business as usual.


Christy Ring
114 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:22:11
From an Irish perspective, Maddison should have been on the field.

Also, Grealish and Rice played for Ireland and then left?

Barry Rathbone
115 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:25:51
The French had another gear to hit whilst England did the usual huff and puff routine, lumping the ball hither and thither with hardly any threat.

Compare and contrast the Griezmann cross bang onto Giroud's noggin whilst surrounded by 3 England defenders – we had nothing of that quality.

And then there is Mbappe!!

Tony Hill
116 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:26:00
It was just a sad, damp outcome, wasn't it?

No-one really to blame. Just sad and damp.

Darren Hind
117 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:28:20
Found myself really rooting for England which comes as something of a surprise, But, like most Evertonians, I feel there are bigger issues than England bowing out.

I'll continue to enjoy the rest of the tournament, It's been a very welcome distraction.

But in the words of the late and very great Windsor Davies: "Oh dear. How sad. Never mind..."

Jeff Armstrong
118 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:29:18
Mbappe did nothing.
Brendan McLaughlin
119 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:31:44
Exactly, Jeff #105,

And France still won.

Jeff Armstrong
120 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:32:13
Darren, you're like me, you love football. You're English, Everton aren't playing, why wouldn't you root for them? Unlike some baffling comments.

Can't stand the "I'm scouse not English" bollocks, it's redshite verbal diarrhoea.

Rob Halligan
121 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:34:19
As good as that cross was from Griezmann, the header from Giroud took a slight deflection off Maguire.

Had the header not been deflected, then I think it was going straight at Pickford who would have saved it. Fine margins indeed.

Andy Meighan
122 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:36:10
I'll tell you why Saka was taken off. Because he contributed absolutely nothing all game, ditto Rice. Henderson carried Rice all game as for Saka all he did was go to ground all game and created zilch.

I never thought for one minute England would win that game, even if the pen went in. Negative manager who's obsessed with two holding midfielders every game.

Stuart Sharp
123 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:43:34
Some very odd comments on here. England were the better team, and I am gutted.

A freak Kane miss, some dodgy refereeing and two moments of class from an otherwise stifled French team. A very tough defeat to take.

I would always choose an Everton trophy over an England trophy, but I'm absolutely gutted.

Dave Abrahams
124 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:43:53
Jeff (105),

“Mbappe did nothing” — they were exactly my thoughts, and yet France found a way to win,.

Although England were the better team tonight, there is always something lacking when they meet one of the harder teams.

Colin Glassar
125 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:46:01
Once again, Southgate bottles it. Takes our two most effective players off (Saka and Henderson) and brings on his go-to-man, Sterling, who is fucking useless!!

He bottles every important game by playing it safe. I hope he gets sacked and Roberto Martinez gets the job.

Mike Doyle
126 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:46:17
So another couple of years of Southgate as manager - culminating in England cruising thru qualification and the group stage before … yawn … (unluckily) going out in the semi-finals of the Euros.

Looking forward to watching how Croatia and Morocco do in the World Cup semi-finals before proper football resumes on Boxing Day.

Kunal Desai
127 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:48:10
I wonder if Lampard might have a crack at managing England once Southgate goes?
Tony Hill
128 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:48:51
Dave @111, indeed. Nothing odd at all.

We just lose – time after time; different reasons for the defeat, sometimes we're okay/good and sometimes we're shite, but it's defeat all the same.

The younger people have much to understand.

Kieran Kinsella
129 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:49:56
I thought Lloris was MotM. Pickford did well too. Saka was the best outfielder IMHO but all it takes is one moment to switch the game.

Giroud who bizarrely always gets stick was there again just as he was winning Serie A with Milan aged 35! An underrated player if ever there was one. And of course another for the Everton list that we let get away!

Duncan McDine
130 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:55:15
Felt a bit like watching the derby. Ref fucked us twice in the first half and you just knew what was coming.

I thought England were excellent after a nervous opening 10 mins, but everything went against us. Despite that, we had a golden chance to take it to extra time, but Kane's 2nd penalty was simply dogshit.

Brendan McLaughlin
131 Posted 10/12/2022 at 21:56:31
Kunal #114,

No chance!

Phil Wood
132 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:17:23
Played well.

Saka had a great game despite close attention. Ref was the difference. He only had eyes for France. Better team lost and it's not often you can say that as we have been too negative in the past.

Pick ourselves up and win the next Euros.

Mike Gaynes
133 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:19:09
Jeff #105,

Mbappe did help create the first goal. But his lack of impact overall was down to some highly effective English defending. They had a plan for him and they carried it out.

Mike Doyle
134 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:28:07
Dave 111,

Perhaps if England hadn't been so worried about Mbappe they would have paid more attention to the 2 goal scorers?

Personally I didn't think England were the best team – so no complaints about the result. If you win a penalty – and miss – you only have yourself to blame.

Looking forward to seeing how Morocco approach the semi-final.

Jerome Shields
135 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:32:55
If a team wants to win the World Cup, they cannot be dependent on set-pieces and penalties in normal play. That is the problem with England, players looking for fouls, rather than good play.

The attack were not effective enough in creating chances from play; the French were. England did concentrate on Mbappe, but the French had alternatives.

Kieran Kinsella
136 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:36:40
Mike Doyle

We beat Germany at the Euros. Was that the one day they weren't in the Top 10?

That said, the rankings are bullshit.

Belgium number 2 and have never even reached a final? Ever! Denmark 10.

Plus Uefa rankings for the next Euros have last time's finalists in the same group! Netherlands and France in the same Euro group too while top seeds Switzerland get Israel as the second seed.

Paul Birmingham
137 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:44:55
For me, there's no ruthless streak, and a player to fight tooth and nail, street-fighter temperament, to mix it, make it and feckin' take it.

Same old story, a very good England team, but just lacking a killer instinct for the dare on the final pass, take the chance, look after the ball when in their box, and in-game management.

This World Cup has stoked the fire, Everton, always first priority, and going forward for Everton to take stock, adjust and beat Wolves.

There's a few ex crap players, now part-time media reporters on a few bob, citing Pickford will be off next summer. Fuck them, and if Pickford is sacrificed, make the suitors pay top rates, £100M.

Hopefully Coady will come back determined and focused and will be a permanent transfer. But let's, see.

“What's Our Name?”


Mike Doyle
138 Posted 10/12/2022 at 22:57:09
Kieran @123,

I'm not sure of their ranking, but we beat Germany at Wembley in the Euros, ie, at home. England's problem is beating Fifa Top-10 ranked teams in games played outside the UK, eg, today.

Whether the rankings are bullshit is irrelevant. Fact is England struggle against Top 10 teams in games played outside the UK – and always have.

Compare Kane's taking of the 2nd penalty with Messi yesterday. Messi - who has won lots of trophies - rolled his in while Kane ( who has never won anything) bottled it. England that!

Danny Baily
139 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:03:54
Who cares? Proper footy is a few weeks away.
Kunal Desai
140 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:04:03
I still think that back four is suspect.

Shaw needs replacing. I'd get Ben White and James Maddison into the starting XI once the qualifiers get underway. Still another centre-back needs to be nurtured into the side; otherwise, it's a solid young side that should be in semis and finals of all tournaments.

It's then how you get past the other side of fine margins being tactically astute and mentally stronger? Maybe that's the missing jigsaw piece and Southgate isn't the man.

Paul Birmingham
141 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:22:15
Kunal, a good call.

I don't see how Maddison never started as he was on top form before the break, unless he was injured or there was other matters.

But time to regroup and go again.

Beat Wolves, and there's Everton and real purpose in football!

Don Alexander
142 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:29:46
One or two of those above have commented, as I always do, on the plethora of sideways, slightly forward, then backward, then sideways, then slightly forward, then backward etc etc etc passes that proliferate in modern football.

As entertainment, it's shite.

Tonight's stats reveal that we apparently "beat" France (goals aside unfortunately) in every category other than fouls conceded.

So what?

So what?! We failed to score from open play. Our now most prolific goal-scorer in history ballooned the crucial penalty way over the bar.

I don't really mind a penalty being saved by a keeper but to grossly miss the target to the extent he did speaks volumes in terms of unprofessional conditioning.

Like Everton, England are weak somewhere in our core – for decades.

But then they're entirely controlled by nonentity blazers who get fat and comfortable at the expense of "their/our" team who go on, decade after decade, indulging themselves despite perennial disappointment on the pitch (to put it mildly) regardless of the fan-base.

Sound familiar?

Paul Birmingham
144 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:59:47
Don, agreed and spot on, in this context.

Same old.

Kieran Kinsella
145 Posted 10/12/2022 at 23:59:57

Forget about Ben White. Apparently he hates football, is anti-social with the team, and left after getting into a row with Holland because he couldn't be bothered to learn anything about the USA team and wasn't interested in reviewing his own stats. Basically, another David Bentley.

Paul Kossoff
146 Posted 10/12/2022 at 00:00:18
Pickford needed a clean sheet to equal Shilton's record? Oh well, if I had have known that, then I knew England would be beaten.

Also, can you imagine two Everton players running round Goodison with World Cup winners medals? No, neither can I, sadly. Thanks, Harry, you big dumb klutz!!!

Hope Morocco, Argentina or Croatia win it, anyone but the Frogs.

Oh and Giroud's header came off the back of Maguire's back. And we should have had a second penalty, and the Frogs' first goal should have been disallowed for a foul in the build-up.

Eating frogs legs and snails, dirty bastards!

Derek Cowell
147 Posted 11/12/2022 at 00:38:17
The first trip on Kane was just outside the box and you could clearly use the white line and the position of his boots to determine it, so get over it!

The twat dived for a pen against us this season.

What goes around comes around!

Tony Abrahams
148 Posted 11/12/2022 at 00:42:47
Fourteen days to Christmas, fifteen days until Everton next play…

I wonder if there will be any movement on the alleged takeover during this period?

Colin Glassar
149 Posted 11/12/2022 at 00:47:06
Thanks to Mourinho and Guardiola (amongst others) England have become a team of highly efficient, technically proficient robots!

They all know their roles, what's expected of them, where they are supposed to be on the pitch etc... but the flair, creativity, the ability to do the unexpected, think on their feet has been drilled out of them.

I name the above because, due to their success, everyone has tried to copy their methods, even their footballspeak, eg action, park the bus. Everyone has to play out from the back, keeper sweepers, pass, pass, pass, retain possession at all costs – it goes on and on and on like the Everready bunny.

The individual has been sacrificed for the collective. The street footballer for the business-savvy athlete. The entertainer for the automaton.

Until we find our own way of releasing the undoubted talent some of our players have, we will continue to be perennial quarter-final losers. Bring back the mavericks!!

Don Alexander
150 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:03:30
And..... off the World Cup on-pitch topic, just why was the most unsuccessful Premier League owner in history this week in Qatar (rather than having been at Goodison for yonks) having a lengthy natter with one of the Qatari regime's foremost financial manipulators?

But maybe they were just acquiring respective home addresses to exchange Christian Christmas cards, eh, Bill?

Let the good times roll!

Kieran Kinsella
151 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:07:39

I don't know. Germany have had success with robots for decades. I can't think of a lot of world-class Germans but they won in 1990, 1996, 2014 with robots. Also a bit harsh blaming Pep for the maverick exit. The last we had was Gazza 30 years ago.

Le Tissier got one start then the game was abandoned and no one ever gave him another chance. Hoddle was another who was seldom used with Robson preferring his namesake.

Colin Glassar
152 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:07:55
Probably trying to sell his FTX shares to some equally gullible sheikh, Don. Kenwright is still trying to sell his shares in Woolworth’s.

Kieran, I could go back further. Currie, Hudson, Worthington, Bowles, Mckenzie all ignored by England managers.

Colin Malone
153 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:33:25
You boring bastards.
Colin Malone
155 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:38:28
Sorry to the replies, I’ve said in haste.

You are what you are.

Colin Malone
156 Posted 11/12/2022 at 01:50:15
Question: Is Declan Rice a midfielder or a defender?

All this hype about a player who cannot pass a ball forward, just square and backwards.

He was shit. I challenge you to ask me why?

I'm not being nasty. I love my football. I'm better than Southgate.

Steve Brown
157 Posted 11/12/2022 at 02:26:34
My biggest reflection on the World Cup?

Everton should sign Croatia's Gvardiol. What a player.

Steve Brown
158 Posted 11/12/2022 at 02:32:45
Sign him up now.
Steve Brown
159 Posted 11/12/2022 at 02:32:46
Kunai @ 127,

If Southgate goes, then I think England might go for a younger profile English coach.

My money is in Henry VIII (aka Wayne Rooney). Now that would be a fun watch. I'd even buy popcorn.

My bigger worry is that Southgate comes here if Frank gets canned.

Kieran Kinsella
160 Posted 11/12/2022 at 02:38:09

There's not a lot of candidates. If he does go, I could see the FA going for Howe but would he walk away from Newcastle? I'm not so sure. But I think he will stay.

He said before he'd stay until he's not wanted. The BBC claim 100% of their pundits want him to stay, plus the FA. Moreover there's no obvious club opening for him.

Kieran Kinsella
161 Posted 11/12/2022 at 03:53:38
Reflecting on the handful of times in my life when a team I wanted to win actually won a final. Denmark in 88 apart I noticed a trend:

Chile beat Argentina (Copa)
Chile beat Argentina (Copa)
West Germany beat Argentina (WC)
Germany beat Argentina (WC)

I guess this is a legacy of earliest childhood memories being of the Falklands War and the first World Cup I watched having the Hand of God. So I'm hoping Argentina get to the final so they can lose. Again.

Steve Brown
162 Posted 11/12/2022 at 05:19:52

If Argentina meet France in the final, they will be well beaten.

Ray Smith
163 Posted 11/12/2022 at 05:59:29
Until we stop looking for fouls and go out and play, we will always be the bridesmaid. You can argue all you like about this and that, but basically we are too nice!

Get in their faces and show the opposition we're here to win, not falling over at the slightest touch from the opposition.

Yes, the ref was crap, but we could have won that game by imposing ourselves on the opposition. Southgate is also too nice, and will continue at the helm, sweep through the Euro qualifiers to await our next quarter-final exit.

Oh well, roll on Boxing Day and Wolves, Kenwright plotting his next windfall at our expense, and another relegation battle which we will survive (again).

Until BK goes mediocrity will remain.

Andrew Clare
164 Posted 11/12/2022 at 08:25:52
England's problems stem from the painfully slow and unimaginative build-up play by Maguire and Stones. The rest of the team are much better but suffer because of this.

I would like to see Argentina win the tournament for Messi's sake. It would crown a great career for a player we are unlikely to see the likes of again.

Having said that, I think overall France are the best team in the World Cup

Dave Abrahams
165 Posted 11/12/2022 at 08:44:53
Steve (159),

It's surprising to some but people who know Wayne Rooney stop and listen when he talks about football tactics, apparently he is very astute when it comes to football and how it is played or should be played.

I hope Kenwright isn't reading this; then again, Wayne might do better than some of those who have tried and failed or just done one for a much easier position.

Danny O’Neill
166 Posted 11/12/2022 at 09:19:25
Colin @153.

On Declan Rice, I have often chatted with a friend of mine who is a big West Ham supporter. I never got the hype about Declan Rice initially, but he's grown on me. I see him as a midfield enforcer. Not too dissimilar to Gueye, but I think he has a bit more craft about him. I wouldn't judge him on one game and wouldn't be surprised to see him move in the near future.

I'll link your comment about robots to that of Kieran's about Germany. Kieran, I'll give you Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller. His more recent namesake isn't too shabby. Matthaus, Klose, Rummenigge, Poldolski, Neuer, Kroos.

There is a long list. Maybe not world class, but there are 2 things with Germany, Yes, functional and yes, almost robotic-like, although that 2010 and 2014 team was exciting to watch. In transition now, but they consistently produce high quality players that forge very functional teams.

I wouldn't blame Pep for England's robotic approach; only 9 of the City's 25-man squad are English. Only 4 of them were in the World Cup squad and only 3 of them started last night, 2 of them defenders. I would hardly call Stones robotic; ask the Park End.

On the match, France looked dominant up until the first goal – and what a goal that was. A beautiful sweeping strike from distance that was always going away from the keeper. That seemed to wake England up and they were unlucky not to get something out of the game.

I was surprised that no decision at all was given for the trip on Kane. It wasn't a penalty, but it should have at least been a free kick in a dangerous position. I didn't need to look as I watched the game, but the stats show that England edged the game. More shots, more shots on target, more corners, higher % of possession. But the classic "take your chances when they come" analogy comes to mind. France took theirs.

England were playing the best international football team in the world at this time. They may not be the most pure, but they are strong. And Griezmann is a joy to watch. For periods of the game he was pulling the strings in the middle and drifting around the park. Difficult to play against a player like that.

Darren @117 and Jeff @120. I don't do the England thing, but I don't dislike them. But neither do I do the "Scouse not English" thing. I leave that to our cousins even though a high percentage of them who carry that mantle come from Norway, Ireland and Devon.

No disrespect to anyone from those countries or Devon, it just grates me; it's embarrassing. My indifference to England is my family background and also my service; I identify as British, like it says on my passport and the flag I served under.

And on that topic, the BBC doesn't help. The amount of times throughout this tournament I've heard them say "we" when referring to England but then "Wales" when referring to Wales. Might as well rebrand themselves as the EBC.

Ray Roche
167 Posted 11/12/2022 at 09:49:41
Danny, watch or listen to Welsh commentary on BBC Wales and it’s ‘we and England’ so don’t think it’s all one way.
Jim Lloyd
168 Posted 11/12/2022 at 09:52:59

If – and I think it would be more dangerous to just try another manager at this stage of the season – we sacked our manager, Wayne Rooney might just be a man to do a job for EFC, assuming he was given time of course, and some financial backing.

ps: I didn't watch the World Cup, but was surprised to learn that Maddison didn't play. He tore us to shreds.

Danny O’Neill
169 Posted 11/12/2022 at 09:53:12
Dave, I watched the recent interview with Rooney. What struck me about his views was music to the ears. His views on the game are simple, which probably comes from his roots and how he learned to play football.

The comment above about Martinez.

If Southgate throws in the towel, I hope they (England) do go for Martinez. I could just see a scenario where Southgate walks, England approach Lampard (young English coach), who couldn't or wouldn't turn it down, paving the way for a Martinez return that had been rumoured prior to Lampard's appointment.

I wouldn't be averse to Rooney. Nervous? Yes. But I was about Lampard.

If that were to happen, I just hope it is after Kenwright is gone. Because you can just see the fanfare and tears as Bill welcomes his boy back home again. The boy he sold down the river for a shilling and magic beans, whilst his boy was painted as the pantomime villain.

I don't know why, but I just have an instinct that Southgate's decision may play a role in the Everton manager position.

I hope that photo of the Sheik and Mr Moshiri was more than pleasantries and a catch up. I can't see the Qataris not wanting to be involved in football after this tournament.

Neil Cremin
170 Posted 11/12/2022 at 09:54:13

On Declan Rice, he is a holding midfielder who is very comfortable on the ball, links play until there is enough movement ahead to deliver a telling pass. I think he is a class act.


I totally agree. In the game against Senegal, I thought Bellingham was also a class act but he was up against a different class of team tonight. England let themselves feel victimised, hence losing focus and not taking on the battle to win the game.

Bellingham typified that mentality by constantly moaning at the ref instead of keeping his focus on how he could drive the team forward to win the battle and the game.

Brian Harrison
171 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:05:03
I think Southgate has done a good job in his time as England manager, I just wish he was a little more positive in his approach. I find the back 4 passing to each other is boring and counter-productive, seems Southgate and Lampard are of the same mould.

I think Morroco prove that you can have less talented players collectively than the opposition but still play the ball through the lines from front to back at pace.

I think France's 2nd goal sums up how negative thinking can cost you goals: we cleared the ball well from the corner yet only had 1 man trying to close down their player in possession who had time to play it wide to Griezmann who played a lovely ball into Giroud to head home from the 6-yard box.

Now, when we cleared the corner, the whole team should have been moving to the 18-yard line which stops Griezmann being able to find Giroud in our 6-yard box, simple stuff that could have prevented a goal. But our defence didn't move out and paid the price.

Tony Abrahams
172 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:06:01
I agree with Ray @163, and thought England never gave the French enough back when it came to the dark arts or just being a bit more physical.

Football is very close now, there's quite a few countries that could beat each other on any given day, but can anyone score past Morocco!?

Kim Vivian
173 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:07:25
Disappointing but not surprising result last night but I guess us Evertonians have an "expectance mentality" drummed into us. It's a shame we (England and Everton) can't seem to craft a goal from open play against decent opposition.

I think Morocco might have been a tough game. No one's scored (apart from one own goal) against them in the whole competition so far.

I'd rather lose to France than Morocco, though, even if it was a round earlier. Mbappe and Griezmann are a joy to watch even if the former was kept fairly quiet last night.

Good luck to Morocco for the remainder of the tournament.

Joe McMahon
174 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:09:36
Gutted really, I enjoyed that performance and France had their toughest game.

Would have liked to see Rashford and Grealish much sooner, but the wait continues. Euros next, and this is a qood England squad.

Pat Kelly
175 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:12:23
Southgate, anyone?


Jeff Armstrong
176 Posted 11/12/2022 at 10:38:46
I thought Rice was our best midfielder last night, not counting Saka (forward)….

Opinions, eh.

Colin Glassar
177 Posted 11/12/2022 at 11:34:48

That's Southgate's problem, he doesn't use his very talented squad! Now I know we are all wannabe football managers but his timidity, late subs, loyalty to underperforming players etc has cost us three times now in key games.

The second half surrenders against Croatia (2018) and Italy (Euros) and his taking off Saka for Sterling show, imo, his naïveté or stubbornness to make the correct adjustments.

I'm no fan of Jack Grealish with his constant diving but he should've come on earlier to get us a few more free kicks around the box. Trippier or Alexander-Arnold should've come on to take those free-kicks if nothing else. Rashford should also have been sent on earlier as Kane was going deeper and deeper.

Southgate is a nice, decent man but nice, decent people don't win things in competitive, cutthroat sports. His insistence on the slow build-up from the back, his refusal to play creative players like Maddison instead of solid, dependable Henderson, his loyalty to a core group of players will always be his downfall.

I don't know if he'll stay or go and neither do I have a replacement in mind – Cooper from Forrest? At least he's won a trophy with some of these lads. All I know is that I doubt I will ever see Everton or England win another major trophy in my lifetime.

Andy Meighan
178 Posted 11/12/2022 at 11:47:47
Colin @156,

I thought I was the only one who thought that about Rice. A very average player who gets smoke blown up his arse by various media outlets. Baffling, it really is.

Jerome Shields
179 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:05:35
The good thing is that Soughgate contract is after the Euros. England will not win anything with his negative play. Defensive midfield based and dependent on fouls for to get into promising attacking positions. A kind of set piece attack.Counting on a partisan media to turn scraps into World beating play.

At least with Frank, there is some attempting to play open attacking play, though the Everton players have the same mentally as Southgate. Keeping themselves in their well-paid jobs, by doing as little as possible to minimise risk and exposure.

I give it to Southgate that he is better than them at it, since no-one has attempted to hang him yet.

Gerry Quinn
180 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:11:58
Have seen "that" 2nd penalty effort and thought that maybe American Football would be of future use to Harry - Googled it and came across this: :)

Harry Kane wants to be NFL kicker

Danny O’Neill
181 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:15:38
I'll counter you on two counts, Colin.

I don't think Grealish dives. He gets fouled a lot. He gets the decisions because he's an English media darling in my opinion.

Richarlison was called a diver for doing exactly what Grealish does; draws contact and because of the pace he is moving at, the fall looks worse than it was. But fouls. Think back to Andy Johnson. Similar. Yet once Mourinho had preached to his then adoring media, that was it, he was branded.

Second count. We are going to see Everton we a trophy in our lifetime. England? I don't really care either way.

Colin Glassar
182 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:38:53
Grealish does get fouled a lot, Danny. That seems to be his only contribution to Man City and England these days,

At Villa, he was a free spirit who had free rein to create and score goals. Under Guardiola and Southgate this has been drilled out of him and his only purpose seems to be fouled in and outside of the box.

As for your last point. I've been fortunate enough to see Everton and England achieve glory. That's in the laps of the football gods.

Christy Ring
183 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:42:14
Regarding Declan Rice, he said he loved to play for Ireland, his dad’s home, played underage, and 3 senior caps. He then declared for England, glory hunter.
Brian Wilkinson
184 Posted 11/12/2022 at 12:45:34
Everything I feared would happen, happened, and that was down to the Manager.

I posted last week people would think I was mad, being worried about Southgates approach to the game, after getting them to the Euro final, and a World Cup quarter final.

I am not one of those told you so and happy to be proved right people, many more will have had the same fear I had, I simply hilighted what could cost us, and that if we changed the approach, lose the fear factor, and go straight at them, we would beat the French, sadly we took the safety first approach.

I had no doubt we had the players to go much further, I was worried about Southgates tactics and subs.

England played a lot better after they went a goal down, simply because they had to attack, as soon as they levelled, we switched straight back to pedestrian boring football, then to take Saka off was crazy, anyway even after being level, Southgate should have thrown Rashford and Grealish on at 1 all, pushed the French back and gone for a winner.

It was like the Italy game all over again, dominated until going a goal up, then Italy respond putting subs on, England over run but still no subs put on, putting Rashford on for the last 5 minutes, Grealish even less is ridiculous, even more so Maddison not even getting a run out.

Once again Southgate bottled it against decent opponents, we had the players to compete, after some of the other teams that had fallen, England had a huge chance of at least getting to the semi final or further, safety first and a extra time and penalty shoot out as a safety net was enough to not at least try to go and win the game, and that is purely down to the Managers negative approach.

A very pissed off Mike Bassett.

Danny O’Neill
185 Posted 11/12/2022 at 13:27:47
Brian, your assessment has a familiar ring to it!!!!

Everton in the later Moyes years when the chances were there. Chelsea 2009, okay, outplayed by a better team. But Wigan at Goodison in the FA Cup and that semi-final that was there for the taking. We choked and gagged at the prospect of winning.

Colin, I just commented about Zaha on the other thread. There is element of that with Grealish. Top dog at Villa, but now surrounded by superstar footballers and not guaranteed a start.

Health warning as I'm going into repetitive mode. The problem for England is deeper than foreign coaches at our clubs putting shackles on players. And I certainly wouldn't accuse Pep of that. If anything, I often wonder what formation Man City are actually playing!!

If your grass roots doesn't have a system geared to support the pyramid, including the national side at the top it, then it will fail. And it has to be one that is built and sustained over years to continuously churn out players of the desired standard.

England has a really good crop of young players that will get better.

But as with the so-called Golden Generation, It happens by chance rather than foresight and planning, which is more of a fingers crossed, hope that a few good players happen to come through at the same time approach.

I think it's getting better, but it will be interesting to see if it sustains or yet another generation peters out.

England are were they are in terms of finish. There are some positives. Jordan Pickford dare I say?

Bellingham I thought had a good tournament. Yes, last night against top opposition, he didn't look as good. Natural for a 19-year-old still learning, especially when you've got a player like Griezmann roaming around on a free pass.

It will be interesting to see if Bellingham stays with Dortmund next season or is enticed to the Premier League. I've heard vicious rumours Liverpool could be his destination. That would make sense given the links with Klopp.

Here endeth my Mike Bassett moment!!

Jim Lloyd
186 Posted 11/12/2022 at 13:49:28
I think our footballers have developed through the club scene at a very early age. It might be good for our football but I wonder if they are trained too much, too soon?

Haha...I'm going to sound like an ould git, reminiscing now!

In the late fifties and sixties. nearly every oller (bombed ground) had kids playing matches, and playing with whatever they could get their hands on, and highly unlikely to be a casey. There was also lots of amateur (usually pub or firm or club, or even street) local football leagues that went on in every city and town.

I think the development in the early crucial years was much more natural than it has become. There always, in every team in the Football League had local lads and a mixture of Welsh, Scottish and Irish lads in the club.

I look at the First Division in the sixties and every club had a contingent of top players from the four countries. There weren't many clubs who won much without a sprinkling of masterful players from Scotland, Wales or Ireland in them.

Our footballers seem to have become so predictable in their thinking, that we are a bit too regimented at the expense of a bit of genius.

Joe McMahon
187 Posted 11/12/2022 at 13:49:35

Please don't remind me us of Wigan at Goodison in the FA Cup and that semi-final that was there for the taking.

Those matches were the final straw for me with Moyes. I can still see the crowd stunned as Wigan scored their third, with a semi v Millwall waiting.

Anthony Dove
188 Posted 11/12/2022 at 13:53:43
Brian @184.

I agree with every word. No subs until France scored their second.

Certainly should have started Mount or Maddison over Henderson, who I can only suppose was there to keep Grizeman quiet. That went well. Final straw was the introduction of Sterling.

Danny O’Neill
189 Posted 11/12/2022 at 14:03:45
Apologies for opening old wounds, Joe.

Jim, you're on the money. Over-coached at too young an age in a system that favours the few. An elite system that excludes rather than includes.

Brian Wilkinson
190 Posted 11/12/2022 at 14:28:47

You are spot on about the games that still haunt me, never have Everton had a better chance than that semi, we were the form team, even Red fans were unusually worried, we got the goal then bottled it big time.

Even now under Frank, the set-up reminds me so much of England's slow pedestrian build-up, then panic late on, throwing subs on too late, instead of acting when you can see, clear as daylight, changes need to be made earlier.

The only time I saw Frank act earlier with subs was the Palace game last season. Even then, we were 2 goals down, but he made the changes and had plenty of time to grasp the game back.

Too many times, I've seen Everton struggling but still no tactical changes until it is too late; then panic sets in and you see three subs thrown on at the same time.

With 5 subs allowed, if you can see the set-up needs tweaking, why not throw two subs on, still have a further three if needed for later on. Why leave it until around the 70-minute mark before making your first sub? Drives me mad the way we are slow to react to danger.

Colin Malone
191 Posted 11/12/2022 at 14:42:34
Danny & Neil.

I have been watching Declan Rice and I see the same pattern of play. Square and back passes. On numerous occasions, he had the ball with no-one near him.

Viera, Kean, Koeman and many more wouldn't just pass it back or square. The lad is a good player for his struggling club but, in my opinion, not good enough for England.

Christy Ring
192 Posted 11/12/2022 at 14:56:51
I believe Southgate is too defensive-minded, and that's what cost him at the Euros as well.

Maguire was caught out for the 2nd goal; he should never have started, considering he's only a sub for Man Utd.

Maddison has been outstanding this season, very attack-minded, and he picks the defensive Henderson. Sterling has been so poor for Chelsea, and he brings him on.

Southgate still picks his old favourites unfortunately. It's hard to look beyond France now; I don't think Argentina are strong enough.

Neil Lawson
193 Posted 11/12/2022 at 15:44:32
There was never the remotest prospect of Maddison making an appearance. He was in the squad purely to assuage the media and public.

A lot of good sense spoken above by many posters. What defines Southgate's shortcomings was his decision to bring on Stirling.

Out of form, ineffective and surely affected by the issues at home and the travel. There is no basis upon which it can be justified other than misplaced loyalty.

Tony Hill
194 Posted 11/12/2022 at 15:50:47
Danny @181,

I have to say that you keep miserable fuckers like me staggering along with your relentless optimism.

When you say that we'll win a trophy "in our lifetime" to whose lifetime, exactly, are you referring? I'm 75, you're about 50 I think. And we have late 80-year-olds on here. Let us hope that the sets can intersect.

Peter Carpenter
195 Posted 11/12/2022 at 16:23:16
Poor Gareth. He's very similar to our old friend Moyesie - can't quite bring himself to have fun. They would be first to leave a party just before it hots up, would only have a half if you offered to buy them a drink and 'one for the road' would be totally out of the question.
To be fair to him, he's made England more watchable and the players more likeable (certainly compared to the wag days). They don't tend to cheat (only 1 yellow card in the whole tournament - trophy for that?) and they were good last night and undoubtedly unlucky.
But, like dear Davie, he's always got the handbrake slightly on. At least we got away from the Phillips/Rice axis of dullness but then he goes and picks Henderson, never an international footballer. He takes off the best player, Saka, brings on Sterling instead of Rashford and gives Grealish no time to affect the game. And this is all completely in character for him. Maddison must have known he was only going for the ride.
But I hope he stays. He can change. I would send him to watch England play cricket for a while. Look at what can be achieved if you take away the fear factor and just go for it - if attack doesn't work, attack harder. It works for them. He's got the players to do just that if he could only force himself. Go on Southgate, play Gazball, you'll never have a better chance.
Danny O’Neill
196 Posted 11/12/2022 at 16:34:44
Tony, you flatter and take the years off me. I'm 51!!

I'll see you at Wembley and the 10th title is coming to BMD.

I can't help myself.

Agree on your assessment of Southgate Peter. If he can just let go, release the shackles and trust the players, he could achieve something. A quarter final is not an achievement no matter how "proud" the FA are.

Kieran Kinsella
197 Posted 11/12/2022 at 17:24:58

On Rice and Grealish, Ireland have snapped up a lot of Northern Irish players much to the annoyance of Michael O’Neill. Then we have Musiala, Musa and Lookman all playing at England youth levels then switching allegiance. Zaha played for us then switched. Hodgson gave Jenkinson a token cap cause he was going to switch to Finland. The fact is that most people have mixed ancestry and few are die hard patriots so they switch nations as they would clubs based on which represents the best opportunity. Cash for Poland being an example or Andy Townsend who said he had no idea he could play for Ireland until he got called up.

Tony Abrahams
198 Posted 11/12/2022 at 17:59:50
Thinking about the praise that Pickford has had this tournament and then reading back on this thread, you just knew it was going to be a second goal for France the moment that Giroud got in front of McGuire for Griezmann's outstanding delivery.

I go along with what Brian H said @171, but also think it's up to the goalkeeper to get his defenders out, and think that Pickford sometimes still falls short in this area of his overall much improved game?

Danny O’Neill
199 Posted 11/12/2022 at 18:03:50
As much as I've praised his improvement, he's still a shot-stopper and 6-yard box keeper, Tony.
Jim Lloyd
200 Posted 11/12/2022 at 18:28:05
Depending on a lot of things, if we've got any money, and can spend it, who, if anyone we've got our eyes on, will they come without us offering silly wages, if anyone wants to buy him?

In other words, if we're desperate enough for funds and got our eyes on a goal SCORER (sorry Michael) and a supplier, then I think our reserve goalie is decent enough for us and we should sell Pickford for the funds and our future.

Jerome Shields
201 Posted 11/12/2022 at 19:11:02
When I said it was good news that Southgate’s contract lasts till after the Euros, I meant that Lampard would be staying at Everton.

The English FA are happy with Southgate, a Moyes-type holding manager that is not going to win anything. He is even managing the post-match post mortem by saying he is taking time to consider his position.

He will quietly decided to stay once the media is out of the way.

Andy Meighan
202 Posted 11/12/2022 at 19:59:40
Danny @181.

I think it was Wenger who branded Johnson a diver and not Mourhino.

But as you rightly said that was it then, he didn't get anything. Big club influence again.

Kieran Kinsella
203 Posted 11/12/2022 at 23:05:57

I'd point to Joachim Löw, assistant to Klinsmann in 2006. Then semis and final losses in 2008, 2010, 2012 and he was the nearly man. But got over the line in 2014.

I think Southgate has evolved. Two years ago, he never would have picked anything but a back-five defensive line-up for the France game. He was braver than the Euros which he blew being negative.

I can't see Germany winning the Euros and, Mbappe apart, some of the key French players are old. I think we could win it. Spain have no pace or goals, Italy pensioned off the Euro winners, Portugal will surely retire Ronaldo and Pep, Holland have one good player and surely Croatia can't go on pushing 40?

Brian Harrison
204 Posted 12/12/2022 at 10:08:18
I find it very strange that not more has been made about the England team taking the knee, yet when we played Senegal not one of their players took the knee.

Also the same when we played USA, despite that protest starting in their own country, they didn't bother to take the knee.

So I think the question is: Has this campaign now past its sell-by date?

Joe McMahon
205 Posted 12/12/2022 at 11:19:23

Like Moyes has relegation on his CV, and here he is, over £4 million a year contract to manage England.

Christy Ring
206 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:10:04
Listening to Paul Merson saying Pickford totally to blame for the first goal, saying he could have caught it on the 6-yard line, and then saying Maguire was England's player of the tournament. He's definitely on a par with Chris Sutton as a pundit, clueless.
Duncan McDine
207 Posted 14/12/2022 at 16:11:53

The nose-candy obviously removed what little sense he previously had. He's a class-A tit.

Kieran Kinsella
208 Posted 14/12/2022 at 16:16:59

Pickford was to blame for the second goal too according to Fabio Capello. He said Pickford hitting balls long invited pressure and caused England to crack.

I saw a security guard was killed in Qatar after a fall yesterday. Presumably wouldn't have happened if Pickford had caught him.

Rob Halligan
209 Posted 14/12/2022 at 16:34:46

Pickford started hitting long balls because he had no faith whatsoever in playing short passes to either Maguire or Shaw. Stones and Kyle Walker are technically gifted in playing the ball around at the back because of the way Man City play under Pep, but Maguire and Shaw……no chance.

I also see some RS are complaining that Trent Arnold didn't get much of a look-in. Jeez, I doubt England would have got out of the group if that useless piece of shit had been playing.

Eddie Dunn
210 Posted 14/12/2022 at 17:03:30
Not many pundits blamed Pickford for that first goal, as it came through legs and his view was obscured. The ball was even curling away from him into the corner. The problem was slow closing down.

I think the team read Southgate's script, which had us shit-scared of Mbappe and concentrating on containment rather than control. The guy is good at getting to the latter stages, but then he is out of his comfort zone.

A nice, media-freindly fellow who is a joy to work with but not a winner.

Matthew Williams
211 Posted 19/12/2022 at 14:53:21
So Southgate is staying on... what a shocker!

England have the most frightening attacking options on the planet atm... but they ain't no team as yet. If Page picks Bale and Ramsey for the next Wales game, I'll just turn it off the telly and read ToffeeWeb!

Fuck 'em,that rousing speech by the actor Michael Sheen might as well have done it in front of his dressing room mirror... jeez!

The Gooners have shown the way forward, play your young players and just be fucking brave!

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