21/12/2023 97comments  |  Jump to last

Uefa and Fifa rules banning clubs from joining breakaway competitions like the European Super League are unlawful, the European Court of Justice has ruled.

The judgement states that, "given their arbitrary nature, their rules on approval, control and sanctions must be held to be unjustified restrictions on the freedom to provide services."

A22's jubilant response included unveiling their detailed plans for a very different European Super League of 64 teams in three divisions, with limited promotion and relegation or demise. 

» Read the full article at BBC Sport

Reader Comments (97)

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Brian Harrison
1 Posted 21/12/2023 at 09:16:47
I see the European court has just ruled that Uefa and Fifa unlawfully blocked clubs joining a European Super League. Obviously this ruling leaves the door open to see if British clubs still wish to participate now that the courts have overruled Uefa and Fifa.

I am sure the European clubs that wanted to set up this league will be very keen to reconstitute the possibility of a new ESL. I wouldn't be surprised if the Saudi league agree to foot the bill as long as two of their sides are allowed to compete.

James Hughes
2 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:05:09
Well, I see that the European Court of Justice has ruled the Super League can go ahead and banning it was unlawful by Fifa & Uefa.

Mal van Schaick
3 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:15:19
It serves the Premier League right! They have become demonstrative in their over zealous running of the Premier League.

Everton should threaten to leave the Premier League and join the Super League as a demonstration regarding our unfair treatment, by points deduction. The Premier League would be happy to shove us in administration and have shown no empathy towards our plight. They have just sought to make an example of us.

Dave Lynch
4 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:17:25
Watching the presentation of it on Sky.

Full of marketing bullshit and keeps stating it's for the fans... yeah right.

Matches are going to be midweek, so...they state will be compatible with all European league structures, there will be a promotion and relegation structure and reading between the lines will herald the end of Fifa and Uefa competitions.
They are also stating all matches will be free to watch.

I reckon the FA will be shitting bricks as it won't matter who wins the league as the top clubs are already in the Super League.

Tony Abrahams
5 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:19:26
L£t th£m go, L£t th£m go, L£t th£m go. V£ry int£r£sting, just imagin£ th£ mon£y th£y will mak£, and I'm sur£ if things don't work out, th£y can just com£ back hom£?

With there being only one true religion left in this world, it all makes perfect sense, expressed in €URO'S, DOLLAR'$, POUND'$ & P£NC£

Dave Lynch
6 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:23:26
Last statement..."all of the revenue generated will be paid back to the participating clubs".
Barry Hesketh
7 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:29:47
The FIFA run World Club cup scheduled for 2025, which includes, Chelsea and Manchester City, who both qualify as recent winners of the Champions League. Only two teams from each nation are allowed to compete, unless Arsenal manage to win the Champions League this season. This is another money-making competition for the so-called elite clubs. I heard that Chelsea will get £50m for being in the competition, but I can't verify that as a a fact.

The 'merit' of this competition is that it will increase revenues via commercial sponsorship for the super-rich, and make it even harder for clubs such as Everton to compete in its domestic league.

Any proposed Super League, regardless of its format, will have the same outcome. I'd be happier if the 'elite' clubs did go away and form their own European Super League and leave the English League system, but like as has already been mentioned, that won't happen, it'll be yet another cash-cow for the super rich clubs to milk, whilst Everton et al, try to operate within an ever decreasing market place, when it comes to commercial sponsorship.

Brian Williams
8 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:29:57
According to the forever correct Simon Jordan it won't be a competition to threaten the premier league but to replace the Champions league, but on a wider scale.
Dave Lynch
9 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:34:54
The Holy Grail of football is the CL.
It will make the domestic leagues null and void for the most part as the CL will not exist.
Rob Halligan
10 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:41:52
I read somewhere earlier on, I think it was one of the comments on the BBC HYS, that the so called big clubs, plus Spurs (Big club my arse), should now be given back the paltry fine of £3M, as the premier league were deemed wrong to have inflicted this “Severe” punishment after the sceptic five, plus “Big club my arse Spurs” threatened to leave and form the ESL. I also wonder if the premier league will now see our ten point deduction in a different light, seeing as we will probably now be seen to be the biggest club they will have, if the Sceptic five, plus SBCMY, do leave?
David Vaughan
11 Posted 21/12/2023 at 11:54:10
Sorry but I for one am delighted to see this resurrected. The sooner the so-called darling clubs get out of the English game the sooner we can reclaim football for the rest.

They serve only themselves and each other, financially I'm sure and through nullifying competition and grass roots excitement.

And should this actually happen - please, God, yes - and the grass proves less green on the other side than they thought, and they want to crawl back, then they must start at the very bottom of the pyramid. No ifs, no lawyers, nothing.

Bring it on!

PS I'm very interested to see the PL's and Masters' reaction. And Everton, please, stay quiet this time. Let them go. We have enough of our own challenges to negotiate...

Paul Hewitt
12 Posted 21/12/2023 at 12:07:22
Excellent news. Now please leave.
Ian Jones
13 Posted 21/12/2023 at 12:09:01
I'm more concerned about our 10 point deduction damaging our chance to win the title this year.
Paul Hewitt
14 Posted 21/12/2023 at 12:11:54
Mal@3. Everton should threaten to leave the PL and join the ESL. That's the funniest thing I've read in ages.😆
Dave Waugh
15 Posted 21/12/2023 at 13:06:03
As it's a European Court ruling, I would have thought the Premier League rule banning clubs from engaging in discussions on this still applies.

Be interesting to see if any of the Sly 6 rekindle their discussions, and following that, whether the Premier League will then hit them with a points deduction as per the revised rules!

Geoff Gordon
16 Posted 21/12/2023 at 13:12:27
So am I correct in thinking that this ruling puts Man City, Chelsea etc out of the hands of the Premier League in respect of points deductions?
Dave Lynch
17 Posted 21/12/2023 at 13:18:19
I'm convinced that first attempt was to test the water and get it through the courts.

The original attempt was ill thought out and to rushed, this time it's well thought out and promises riches.

Barry Rathbone
18 Posted 21/12/2023 at 13:21:09
The idea is 2 fingers up to local supporters and a warm embrace to foreign TV fans. Fan forums of the clubs involved were awash with division as "global" fans couldn't see a problem yet locals were totally against.

The clubs involved will eventually go for it simply because the global market is greater and history, tradition and local identity can get fucked.

Charles Brewer
19 Posted 21/12/2023 at 13:23:40
This could be great. The Scab Six can go and join this dreary “No threat of relegation = Zero excitement” league where hysterical advertising and hype will boost the weekly round of Mogadon coma results- Barcelona 12 - 0 Rotivator Stalingrad; Man Utd 7 - 0 Torpid Vienna.

All matches will be played at the home ground of the “bigger” team to maximise revenues, matches between “big” teams will be decided by the Sun Supercomputer (based on factors such as merch sales, TV revenues, bribes to league officials).

Personally I would give away a ticket to any Champions League match and can't remember ever watching one. I really don't care whatsoever about some French team kicking lumps off a Croatian team in some meaningless match designed to maximise revenues and nothing else.

Andrew Ellams
20 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:01:45
Brian @ 8. He's probably right for now.
John Keating
21 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:06:22
I would imagine those at Peel Group will be burning the midnight oil. How will this affect John Lennon airport?

At least during the season they were guaranteed so many flights from Norway. This new league, games played at home etc could seriously dent profits.

Michael Kenrick
22 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:22:45
I don't think some of you have quite grasped the concept of this.

It's not a 12-team exclusive anymore. As Dave @17 says, they've put a bit more thought into it that may make it attractive to teams well beyond the Scab 6. And they are only playing 14 games a season before the small playoff stage (Top 4).

But get this: it's to replace the Champions League and the Europa League and the Conference League — all of Uefa's shite competitions.

That means nobody would be leaving the Premier League. The ESL is meant to coexist with the domestic leagues, not threaten them. Let that sink in.

Steve Brown
23 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:26:01
The independent football regulator in the UK will use government legislation to prevent English clubs participating.

German clubs have already refused as they have fan representation on their boards, so it is effectively dead.

Dave Lynch
24 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:26:43
Thanks Michael.

And as I pointed out, will make winning the title pointless as there is no reward.

It will be impossible to anyway when the big money is handed out to participants of the SL. Let's see how FFP pans out then.

Dave Lynch
25 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:32:35
Steve @23,

So opening the way for a full breakaway, the FA will then shit their pants and agree to it.

The FA are a governing body, albeit a corrupt one, they do not own the clubs or players.

LIV Golf have done it, after the PGA threatened to sanction players, they can still play in the majors.

Ian Pilkington
26 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:34:22
Let's suppose that ESL now goes ahead and the Sky Six join, whilst the Saudis no doubt ensure the Skunks are included as well. The PL replaces them with the top seven from the Championship and it carries on as before.

The huge TV revenues switch from the Premier League to the European Super League and so inevitably do the best players. In a couple of seasons, the Premier League will be as relevant as the Championship is now.

Does anyone really imagine that replacing fixtures v the Sky Six – as much as we detest them – with Leicester, Ipswich, Leeds, Southampton, West Brom and Hull will fill the new stadium every fortnight?

Jerome Shields
27 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:35:28
FIFA have already anticipated this with plans to extend the World Club Cup Championship with 25 qualifying teams from Continental Competitions in 2025. Each qualifying Club getting £50 million.

It will probably then be broken down into European and other continental groups like the World Cup. More qualifying teams from European or contential type competitions joining in the future.

The finishing of the European Super League was due to a threat of bans by Fifa and Uafa from their competitions, which has now been deemed unlawful. So Fifa has now an alternative in place.

It is interesting that the Premier League has recently put in an objection to the extension of the World Club Cup championship. The Current competition fixtures are in Saudi Arabia, no less.

Yes, the equivalent of a European Super League is now on the horizon. The Premier League won't be dishing out any Everton-type sanctions and the likes of Man City won't tolerate them anyway.

Eddie Dunn
28 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:36:22
Money gets dangled – then changes come. Just like when the Premier League was started.

We have seen the Golf world turn upside down and the big fights go to the Gulf; Football is no different.

Interesting times.

Rob Dolby
29 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:44:37
This is football killing itself with greed.

It's all about the money, as Tony said abov£.

Without competition, sport is dead; our domestic and European leagues do need to change to level the playing field as more or less the same teams win each domestic league year on year. We have more or less become the Scottish Premiership.

This Super League will feed the same teams until they burst.

The big boys will have squads of 50 with endless money to buy from smaller feeder teams. Man Utd will play Real Madrid 6 times a year.

Italian football imploded when every game was televised and fans stopped going. This will be similar. I could imagine teams giving tickets away to get some sort of atmosphere going.

The Premier League will rightly be worried that their piece of the pie will become smaller. The rest of us are already making up the numbers. It will be interesting where Newcastle fit into this.

Good job the Premier League never issues points deductions for the 6 clubs involved originally; otherwise, there would be lawsuits flying everywhere.

John Keating
30 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:45:57
Uefa and Fifa are as, if not more corrupt than our FA and Premier League so seeing them lose more control is excellent.

No matter what the organisation is called, Premier League, FA, Fifa, Uefa, ESL, power breeds corruption so the only thing that will change are those who skim the dosh.

The ESL may well start off in conjunction with already established tournaments but, in my opinion, in time it will replace them with its own and cream off the big earners from the rest.

Mike Hayes
31 Posted 21/12/2023 at 14:58:14
Let the Septic Six go on the proviso they can't come back or take part in domestic trophies – simple. The whole thing is just obviously a money making scam for those who've already got too much to spend.

How Spurs get called a big club or Newcastle escapes me – they've won what recently? 🤷💙

Michael Kenrick
32 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:06:39
You don't geddit, Mike.

Your Septic Six won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Dave Lynch
33 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:06:39
Will people get away from this big club "what have they won"?

In the modern game, it's about turnover, nothing more, nothing less.

That type of archaic thinking is what held us back for years under the teary one.

Alan J Thompson
34 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:15:52
This will probably be popular in Asia, Africa, maybe the US and possibly by involved clubs' fans.

But it threatens national football leagues as it would be unacceptable to have fixtures arranged to suit other midweek commitments, weakened teams, the probable cancellation of Cup competitions and I suppose any idea of a winter break. Or does it mean a year-long season with barely a break between seasons?

I don't think it has been thought out properly this time either or we are yet to hear the whole truth but it does seem to be run for the money and not for the show.

Dave Lynch
35 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:23:57

Did you see the presentation of it? If not, watch it.

It's structured (or so they say) to give football back to the people, the spin and bullshit was oozing out of it...

It will appeal greatly to the "new" football fan, you know the ones, they are usually in Anfield filming the game without an ounce of passion on their iPhone.

There is a new order in world sport... brace yourself.

Soren Moyer
36 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:25:39
LIV Golf of Football, for fuck's sake!

All sports involving Saudi Arabia should be boycotted by fans around the world.
Ray Roche
37 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:30:44

“… every game was televised and fans stopped going”

Yes mate, Klipperty has already come out imploring the RS tourists to try and create an atmosphere against Arsenal at the weekend because the fans may be stale after ‘too much football'. Last night was apparently like a morgue.

This proposed league looks very complicated and, if Klipperty thinks they're playing too much football now, God knows what will happen with the extra games that will be played under that setup.

In the blink of an eye, football will be controlled by the Saudi regime and with their unlimited money; all the already-rich clubs will be their puppets with money spilling out of every orifice. We are seeing the gradual demise of football as we know it, and it will increase in pace until football as we know it has ceased to be.

Sean Mitchell
38 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:35:46
I'd love to see the back of the Sinister 6.

They're more sinister than the Spiderman villains.

Dave Lynch
39 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:53:22
Ray, I don't know how old you are... I'm 62 and football as "I" knew it died a long time ago, mate.

I'm no conspiracy theorist... God forbid, but I am beginning to think there is some kind of ulterior motive to all this.

Dale Self
40 Posted 21/12/2023 at 15:59:01
Well, I tried to get excited about this and the truth is, I don't give a fuck anymore.

The Champions League group stage was as boring as I can recall. Very few matches in the 6th round made any difference to qualification for the knockout stages. Just fuck off already.

Raymond Fox
41 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:15:17
Money rules, okay, always has.

The Premier League is a competition in name only, there needs to be changes to make it more so.

As it is now, if a team other than the perennial Top 6 clubs do well, they just go and buy their star players – and that puts an end to any chance of that team's success.

They have too much advantage in many other ways to call it competitive; how long is Branthwaite going to be our player, for instance?

I suppose in the end it will depend what the TV companies want because that is where most of the money is coming from, they hold the strongest hand.

Danny O’Neill
42 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:21:10
Reading this today, I think there is a way to go as to what this may or could look like. Hosted by the Saudis?

I was quite vocal on the initial proposal.

What I'm reading today is a breakaway from the Champion's League and possible collapse of that competition. But not a break away from national leagues.

The only odd thing is that giants like Bayern and Dortmund didn't want to play last time out. And there is still the closed shop element of if with certain clubs being guaranteed access regardless, which makes me uncomfortable, even though there will be scope for others to qualify.

Then again, the Champions League was built on the concept of allowing those bigger clubs who didn't actually win their league to participate – unlike its predecessor, the European Cup, a true champions competition.

Let us see how this plays out.

Frank Crewe
43 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:23:33
Uefa may be bound by ECJ rulings but FIFA isn't, any more than nations outside Uefa are bound by Uefa's FFP rules.

If clubs decide to join any breakaway league not sanctioned by Fifa, then their players would be banned from international competitions such as the World Cup and be unable to play for their respective countries. So their players may not wish to be banned and demand moves to clubs still under Fifa rules.

Then there is the whole concept which now appears to be far removed from the original vision of a few big rich clubs playing in a single league with no relegation. Now they are talking about 64 clubs in divisions with promotion and relegation.

The big clubs didn't sign up for that at all and may not be interested in it since it just looks like another midweek league on top of their domestic league.

So more injuries and bigger squads leading to bigger salary bills and higher transfer fees. Not to mention trying to prioritise which league to go for. Although I would presume it would be the one that pays the most in prize money.

Finally there is the cost to the fans. Just how much money do they think we have? Following a rich club in one nation is already expensive. So where do they propose we get the money to pay for two games a week? Especially if one of them is in another country.

They are saying it would be free on TV but how long would that "promise" last when there is PPV money to rake in?

Football is not golf. Golfers are individuals who can do whatever they like. But football clubs are a part of the community they started in and cannot just be moved around like some American franchise.

Just like the last time, I have no doubt the fans around Europe will not take kindly to greedy moneymen trying to take away their clubs just to line their own pockets.

Jerome Shields
44 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:28:34
John #30,

The qualifying rules for the 2025 World Club Cup are vague at the moment. Man City qualify, but Man Utd does not, but they will find a way of changing that.

It will mean that the Septic Six will have even more money than now. They won't be turning their backs on their increasing Premier League monopoly and the income that generates. Even with the European Super League they were never going to do that.

It will be the select big-name teams and the money will be held within their ranks. Bigger squads, more subs, and benches packed with megabuck signings, with global media deals.

Barry Hesketh
45 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:36:35
Danny @42

The breakaway clubs did not envisage leaving the domestic league, it was only because the various bodies made threats to them, that they backed down. I agree that the new proposals are far different to the original Super League plan, but the elite clubs still want and need to participate in the English Premier League.

Will the 12 clubs leave their domestic leagues?

At the moment they are hoping to remain playing in those competitions but the leagues have all issued strong-worded statements condemning the clubs and the new breakaway league.

LinkExplainer: how will the new European Super League work? Original article published in April 2021


Jack Convery
46 Posted 21/12/2023 at 16:56:53
In principle, it would look like this. Let's take Man City as an example. Imagine their first 6 Premier League fixtures are:

H v Luton
A v Arsenal
H v Palace
A v Villa
H v Spurs

At the same time, they would play in the ESL Star League as they are calling it:

1st 6 fixtures

A v AC Milan
H v Porto
A v Barca
H v RS
A v Bayern
H v Athletico Madrid

And so it would continue for the rest of the season.

In which matches would they play their best XI, given the rewards for winning the ESL would be so much more as will the revenue for televised games. The ESL would not stand to see sub par teams put out. So the Premier League becomes the new League Cup. Squad teams playing, whilst the best players are rested for the ESL games.

Eventually the need for the Premier League would die off for the Sly 6 and anybody else who joins them, ie, Newcastle, as the League Cup / FA Cup are doing.

It becomes the be-all and end-all for the super rich clubs, as they will have no choice but to carry on, as their revenues would be built around the ESL games / sponsorship / prize money etc.

The end in so many ways.

Danny O’Neill
47 Posted 21/12/2023 at 17:00:42
Reading between the lines of the statement, it will be interesting to see how both the Premier League and Uefa react.

Particularly the latter with their flagship competition potentially under threat if this goes ahead.

Dan Parker
48 Posted 21/12/2023 at 17:07:19
Very much a game of chicken for the Sly 6. One of them caves and the others will follow. Money talks.
Christine Foster
49 Posted 21/12/2023 at 17:37:07
Moshiri is probably thinking this is an early Christmas present, no matter what your views are on the European Super League, it's possible format will change the value and potential profitability of the club.

Whilst condemning the Premier League, the new format will weaken their power and influence on teams, something that's needed.

But is this latest version of the European Super League actually Super? Or is it a European league set out to eventually replace a domestic league?

The Premier League clubs would still be in breach of the league's rules and it would weaken the totalitarian power base but eventually it would come down to money and survival for most clubs, including ours.

One thing is clear though, the FFP rules would go out of the window, as competing in different leagues would render the control of finances by the Premier League, with no control over costs or income incurred in a European league, making any sanction impossible. Could it actually mean the end of the Premier League?

James Flynn
50 Posted 21/12/2023 at 17:41:51
About time Fifa and Uefa got pulled up.

The "Super League" as originally proposed is dead. It died almost immediately after it was announced.

If there is another attempt, it will be interesting to see what it will look like. Outside the clubs that initially agreed to it, that first run at it was screamed down by everyone else.

Danny O’Neill
51 Posted 21/12/2023 at 17:43:04

I would be very concerned if I was the Premier League or Uefa right now.

Phil Friedman
52 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:01:13
Danny @ 42:

Bayern already announced they will not participate in the ESL. I doubt any German teams will.

Jay Harris
53 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:03:07
Although fan power has diminished with the progressively increased number of televised games now providing the bulk of income, I believe any move to leave the Premier League for a European Super League will be hugely opposed by fan groups as it was last time.

I anticipate a halfway house with the number of Premier League teams reduced and a so-called European Super League replacing the Champions League and Europa League. We may even see Rangers and Celtic apply to become part of the Premier League.

At the end of the day, unfortunately, money talks and we all know how greedy most owners are.

Kim Vivian
54 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:04:42
I haven't read many of the posts and very little about the guts of the proposal, but can't any club that wants to join in just fuck off and leave the rest of us to have a proper and more traditional league? Somewhat like the lower divisions whose supporters probably enjoy their football more than a good percentage of the Premier League sheeples.

It's like F1 has just become a borefest with more knobs than personalities. The equipment is mind boggling but the sport is almost absent.

Christine Foster
55 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:09:53
Danny, I honestly think this is a torpedo in the water for the Premier League. The original format of the first breakaway attempt has been replaced with a skimming of domestic leagues in Europe, not so much a Super League but a parallel European one.

Clubs will find it impossible to participate in both with full commitment to both, cost and management, never mind the size of squads or impact on players... something would have to give.

Being in a cup knockout competition is totally different from that of a league.

The Premier League has released a statement condemning the proposals but it drips with hypocrisy, especially its comments relating to its commitment to fans...

I doubt the two leagues could co-exist for long, the torpedo would hole the good ship Premier League beneath the waterline.

Stephen Vincent
56 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:14:31
Christine #49, why would P&S rules go out of the window? Clubs still have to file accounts as all are limited companies. They cannot pick and choose which income streams they report.

All that happens is that the favoured few become more sustainable under existing rules.

Brent Stephens
57 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:15:53
Did I hear on the news that Uefa and Fifa have already changed their rules? Not in time to win this case but in the future to be able to block this proposal?
Pete Neilson
58 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:17:54
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has mocked the new proposals.

Speaking in a news conference, Ceferin said "Football is not for sale".

It's not reported if he managed to keep a straight face when saying this.

Christine Foster
59 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:29:18
Stephen, participating in two leagues with vastly different account structures and requirements cannot be compared to ad hoc secondary cup competitions, the whole cost base would change, as would its potential rewards, making the very concept of Financial Fair Play unworkable.

How could you hold one team to account on a set of rules whilst allowing another team in the same league a free pass because they could argue their cost base is fundamentally different? Which league has precedent? It can't work.

Duncan McDine
60 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:35:11
Football is already pretty dull. There are too many fixtures to make it interesting and I generally don't bother watching or listening unless it's Everton.

The more fixtures played and the more accessible they make football, the less exciting it becomes.

All we can do is sit and watch the money men squeeze every last drop from the once beautiful game.

Mark Taylor
61 Posted 21/12/2023 at 18:46:38
Like others, I read this as a direct threat to Fifa and especially Uefa – not so much to the Premier League.

With 64 clubs, that's most of the Premier League teams competing in it; otherwise, we will end up with meaningless Real Madrid v Laughing Boys of Genk non-matches. The one thing they will have to do is not make it a closed shop, still allow a means to entry at the bottom tier.

Do Uefa deserve this? Answers on a postcard…

Stephen Vincent
62 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:01:30
Christine, they cannot choose which income streams they report, the fact that they will have additional income makes not one jot of difference in the calculation of available transfer funds, other than it puts them in a far more favourable position under the current P&S rules.

One of Man City's many sins is failure to release satisfactory proof of income, which they have refused to do as City are part of the City Group and their holding company is registered in Abu Dhabi.

John Keating
63 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:05:30

Ceferin makes Blatter look like an angel.

The present mob at Uefa and Fifa have learned from the Blatter years and taken it to a new level.

Paul Ferry
64 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:34:39
I imagine that, if it is to be 64 teams, then there is probably more than a decent chance that we will be invited to join. The stadium on the river might well dictate that.

So, the question is: all of you who are above me on this thread, rubbing hands, denigrating the morality of this new proposal and its sole origins in Mammon, and rubbing hands with glee because the super six will be off (on that, see Mr Kenrick's timely reminders), would you want us to join this league if we got that invitation to the big table?

How many of us might change how we feel about this if we were one of the charmed 64?

Christine Foster
65 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:44:21
I think that's my point, Stephen, it will put many of the clubs in a far more "favourable" position than those not in both leagues. It makes a mockery of the level playing field scenario which no one even considers is realistic anymore, just widens the gap.

But if you are playing half your games in a European league, a domestic league cannot have a say over how and where you make a profit or loss from.

I concede under the current single league scenario, the domestic league is essentially the governing body when it comes to FFP or PSR, but it's a different ball game (literally) when a club has two masters / two governing bodies (when both would be under threat as well).

Brent Stephens
66 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:50:13
When we compete in the Premier League, are all income and expenditure streams from the FA Cup and the Carabao Cup included in our total P&S for Premier League purposes? I guess they are.

If so, do the income & expenditure streams related to the breakaway league get included in the same way? I'm not sure why they wouldn't be.

Dale Self
67 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:52:07
Anyone catch Ornstein’s take? Basically, confirmed Brent’s suggestion of ammended rules for clubs by PL. Additional peace of mind comes from the expectation of legislation regulating English clubs ability to join renegade leagues.

The competition angle was strange from the European Court as though they now resented that the leagues and competitions are run by monopolies. The governance of member clubs requires a monopoly body doesn’t it?

It’s been a while since I’ve looked at Anti-Trust issues but I thought leagues were understood to be quasi-monopoles. Then the authorities largely focused on ticket prices and development issues. This seems to be an unusual stance to make way for clubs since fans have access to all the matches they want presently.

I can’t imagine the European Court outmaneuvering the PL and local government on what is obviously an English, ahem, product.

Brent Stephens
68 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:54:49
Dale, your second para is spot on. The king is dead. Long live the king.
Michael Kenrick
69 Posted 21/12/2023 at 19:56:39
Paul @64,

I think you're bang on the money: Everton being among the Top 20 clubs in world soccer (per Deloitte), we would surely be a slam-dunk (to indulge in your basketball vernacular) for an invite.

But seems it's too soon for such sensible dialogue; the mob are still rending spleens over the Scabby 6 and seem determined not to contemplate what this might possibly mean for us going forward.

Brent Stephens
70 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:01:47
Paul, exactly. We'd bite their hands off if invited to join.
Kevin Edward
71 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:09:56
I foresee a few of our favourite foes being pulled in different directions over this.
Owners will love the smell of money, legacy fans won’t like having to play second fiddle to the global fan base.
Watch out for more cards and banners.
In the meantime we are at least galvanised against the EPL and the points deduction.
And FFP is still in play, which to be honest is the last laugh with all this super league stuff thrown into the mix.
I hope that having the EPL on the ropes might encourage them to back-off us a bit.
Paul Hewitt
72 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:12:50
Man utd, man city, Chelsea and Spurs have said they won't be joining. So have the German teams.
Jim Wilson
73 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:19:08
Micheal @ 64 - we should be a slam dunk but I have a feeling a certain club would be standing in our way. Our new stadium is one of the reasons we are in so much trouble with the Premier League.

The sooner we realise that the better.

Personally I am not interested in a European Super League and would prefer Everton getting involved in a revised Football League where money is not everything and corruption not so prominent.

Brent Stephens
74 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:24:20

"Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs have said they won't be joining. So have the German teams."

I think I'd be a bit more wary of them. Chelsea, for example, have said “We firmly believe that, by working with the Premier League, FA, other European clubs through our strong relationship with the ECA, UEFA, FIFA, we can together continue to develop the European game for the benefit of everyone”. That's not exactly a "no"?

Similarly Man Utd: "Our position has not changed. We remain fully committed to participation in UEFA competitions, and to positive cooperation with UEFA, the Premier League, and fellow clubs through the ECA on the continued development of the European game."

Dale Self
75 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:27:37
We know most Liverpool players, fans and officers would love to bathe themselves in Saudi dollars.

Maybe they will just slither off and join Al Shittihad, PSG and Real.

Michael Kenrick
76 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:50:17

For once, it should be abundantly clear to you that you are talking absolute garbage with this 'two leagues, two masters, can't work' strawman.

Premier League clubs currently (and I would suggest will only ever) compile one set of audited financial accounts showing all ins and outs, irrespective of the source. This is exactly what happens now, despite some getting income from the Champions League, some from the Europa League.

Yes, that latter group have to satisfy Uefa FFP rules, as well as Premier League P&S Rules. It would work exactly the same with the European Super League there instead. Why wouldn't it?

Sadly, you have really let your imagination run wild with this one. Get a grip, woman!

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 21/12/2023 at 20:53:29
Two leagues? The greed of the beast will eventually put paid to this if it ever materializes, imo.
Billy Shears
78 Posted 21/12/2023 at 21:05:18
We all know deep down that one day this will happen.

Plain old greed will call the shots...it always does, especially in sport!

Tony Abrahams
79 Posted 21/12/2023 at 21:18:49
I still can’t believe it hasn’t already happened Billy, because it’s something that has been in the pipeline for years. It’s something I remember talking about well before the millennium, so I’m surprised it’s taken so long. Especially because it still hasn’t happened!
Dale Self
80 Posted 21/12/2023 at 21:19:37
So we don't know of any other competitions other than the 64 club playoff? And the Super League then offers invitations that in many cases duplicate the Champions League and Europa League places?

No way. This would eventually lead to contracts with clubs requiring several seasons and then those contracts will be deemed anti-comptetive by the European Court whose memebets haven't been paid off by the previous arrangement.

Dave Lynch
81 Posted 21/12/2023 at 22:56:53
Uefa and Fifa may be the governing bodies but they don't own the "product" to use an Americanism the product is football which is a sport.
Making it simple, if 30 clubs in Europe decided to leave their respective leagues and set up a rouge league/s what can be done about it?
Uefa and Fifa are up to their necks in corruption, do you not think for one minute the Arabs got a taste of this after being offered/sold the World Cup?
They will have all the ammunition they need to tell them to piss off or we'll take you down.
As for the FA... they are no more than Sky's whore masters.
Brian Wilkinson
82 Posted 22/12/2023 at 00:33:10
their rules on approval, control and sanctions must be held to be unjustified restrictions on the freedom to provide services

So with this in mind, then how does this stand with owners restricted in buying players and not being able to make a loss of £105 over 3 years, is that not restricting rich owners from spending their money on purchased goods.

You would not get this in any other Buisness, Aldi told they can only spend so much, while Tesco’s and the likes can spend much more, surely it has to be a breach of freedom in providing services.

Jerome Shields
83 Posted 22/12/2023 at 01:18:05
The problem for the promoters of the European Super League was that they were unsuccessful and Fifa and Uefa have moved on in what they are doing. This does not mean that the promoters of the European Super League can pick up from where they left off.

As for the Premier League, they are quite powerless, in that it was more a backlash resistance, until Figs and Uefa threatened a ban. It could now progress, working with Fifa and Uefa without the Premier League.

Alan J Thompson
84 Posted 22/12/2023 at 01:28:05
If Everton were to be invited to join this European "Super" League I would hope they would decline. I don't want to see Everton relegated from the Premier League and I feel the same if we were invited to the secondary "Super" league. Barring teams from their now domestic competitions might be nothing more than playing into ESL organizers hands but we can't allow anything less than full strength teams competing in the Premier League. If this was allowed would it be another Everton first, or should that be only, club to have been fined for fielding what was considered an under strength side, in the week before 1966 FA Cup Final wasn't it? Mind you, Harry's defence was, "When is a reserve not a reserve?"
Kieran Kinsella
85 Posted 22/12/2023 at 02:17:57
Interesting that only Arsenal and RS of the so called “big six” didn’t rule out joining a Super League today. Chelsea, Man City, Man and Spurs all condemned it.

As did Bayern, Inter, PSG and Atletico Madrid. Napoli apparently welcomed it, as did Juve, Milan, Real and Barce. Roma also against it.

So basically Stevie Gs Saudi team with 600 fans, Liverpool, Arsenal, Real, Barce, Napoli and Juve joining along with I guess 58 teams from Belarus, Norway etc? Sounds super!

Christine Foster
86 Posted 22/12/2023 at 02:42:06
Michael, just an opinion as ever, for what it's worth, which as you rightly point out, isn't worth much! But don't worry, I'll try not to take it too badly, heat, kitchen and all that.

But the gap between the elite and also rans will get wider, but doesn't that mean the Sly 6 were right to try and any sanction would have been unlawful?

Must rush have a cupboard full of straw men for Michael...

Kieran Kinsella
87 Posted 22/12/2023 at 03:04:22

Everton don't even rank among the UEFA coefficient of 400 clubs now because we haven't been in Europe for so long. But if we go Sky style biggest 64 clubs in Europe (history/stadium size etc) this would be my list in no particular order:

Benfica, Porto, Sporting, Real, Barce, Athletico, Sevilla, Valencia, PSG, Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, PSV, Ajax, Feyernoord, Inter, AC, Juve, Napoli, Roma, Lazio, RB Salzburg, FC Copenhagen, Club Bruges, Galatassary, Fernerbache, Besiktas, Olympiakos, Panathainalos, AEK Athens, Celtic, Rangers, Dynamo Kiev, Shaktor Donetsk, Slavia Prague, Legia Warsaw, Red Star Belgrade, Steau Bucharest, AIK Stockholm, FC Zurich, Bayern, Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Frankfurt, Schalke. Stuttgart, Zagreb, Hadjuk Split, RS, Arsenal, Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, WHU, Brondby, Udinese, Zaragoza, Bilbao, Lille, Lens, EVERTON

Steve Brown
88 Posted 22/12/2023 at 06:24:46
Dave @ 25, I think the government have already said it will not permit English clubs to take part and will introduce legislation if necessary. German clubs rejected the idea already.

Athletico Madrid even rejected the Super League proprosal yesterday, which I guess leaves Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juve and the minor leagues to make up the 64 teams.

Ernie Baywood
89 Posted 22/12/2023 at 07:03:06
Clicking through the A22 X page
... this seems to be targeted at redistributing the money earned by English clubs.

There are plenty of posts talking about inequality across Europe and the huge spending of English clubs.

Dave Abrahams
90 Posted 22/12/2023 at 11:49:05
It looks like the majority of English clubs are not going to join this new Super League but I was wondering how the players themselves would feel about such a league, plenty more money on one hand but much shorter careers I think with more games, more injuries and plenty of mental pressure to contend with not to mention fans getting fed up with these games,cost and travel and maybe interest level dropping and boredom stepping in.

I think it would be too much for me, not that we will have any say in these top flight games for quite awhile!

Ray Roche
91 Posted 22/12/2023 at 12:04:56
Dave, interesting that you mention ‘ interest level dropping and boredom stepping in.’ I mentioned yesterday that Klopp was imploring the RS fans/tourists to try and create an atmosphere for the Arsenal game and if they don’t feel up to it, give your ticket away. Playing Saturday and Wednesday every week, as I understand it, will become boring and expensive. I can’t imagine many RS wanting to drive up from Wiltshire every Wednesday to watch a nothing game against an average European side or even a Saudi team. (Henderson was playing in front of 700 fans last week in Saudi). Money truly is the root of all evil. Hope this idea dies on its arse.
Paul Hewitt
92 Posted 22/12/2023 at 12:44:35
All these Premier League clubs saying they won't join a European Super League.

Rubbish, just wait till they find out how much money they will make. You won't see them for dust.

Steve Brown
93 Posted 22/12/2023 at 13:28:47
Ray @ 91, mid-week flights from Oslo can also be pricey.
John Raftery
94 Posted 22/12/2023 at 14:42:52
This whole concept is obviously being driven by Real Madrid to ensure they remain at the top of the game. They are terrified of the threat from the richest Premier League clubs.

I doubt anyone believes a Super League proposal will drive fair and open competition across the professional game.

Plainly a new league will have no regard to paying spectators. It will be made for TV audiences and driven by TV broadcasters.

Year by year, the professional game is devaluing its own currency with too many competitions, larger tournaments and too many games.

Kieran Kinsella
95 Posted 22/12/2023 at 15:00:05

I was thinking similarly. For example Ajax v Feyenoord is always a massive game due to the local rivalry. Man Utd v Man City is a massive game for the same reason. But would millions of neutrals right now tune in to watch a league game of Ajax v Man Utd?

No, because neither are very good and there is no established long-term rivalry there to generate interest. And yet both Ajax and Man Utd based on history would likely be in the proposed Super league.

Everyone wants to watch their own club but many will also watch the best clubs whoever they may be and that changes over time. People watched the European Cup Final last season – not because it was Man City v Inter instead of Marseille v Red Star Belgrade – but because those were two top teams right now, just as the latter were 30 years ago.

Any Super League will have half a dozen really good teams at any one time; no-one cares to watch meaningless games between the rest.

John Keating
96 Posted 22/12/2023 at 15:01:13
Surprised at how many commentators, including managers, are saying how glad that so many clubs are coming out against this European Super League. Almost all are mentioning that the fans have to be considered above all.

Just a pity these commentators and managers can't pass those sentiments on to the Premier League. Obviously when it comes to us, Master's and the Premier League don't give a shit about us.

Mind you, let's see what these clubs do when the wedge of cash is dangled in front of them. The golf world seems to have changed their minds and I have no doubt footy will do the same.

Jim Lloyd
97 Posted 22/12/2023 at 22:12:36
Absolutely right, John.

That 6's puny fine compared to the mountain we have been given to climb... bet they're sick at the minute!

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