FAN ARTICLES

Another incredible unbelievable draw

By Michael Kenrick : 16/01/2011 :

Comments (167) :

This Anfield derby could have been different for David Moyes: it could have been one that he won, with Liverpool floundering in the bottom half of the Premier League, an incredible 10 losses in 21 games, and just having changed their manager, King Kenny Dalglish returning after 19 years. What a perfect opportunity of doing a rare double over Liverpool following the convincing Goodison win back in September, what would have been the first since 1984.

With Steven Pienaar in the throes of transfer negotiations involving Spurs, Chelsea and possibly Inter Milan, Moyes chose local boy Leon Osman in his place, to play down the wing... possibly his worst position. Jagielka was still injured so Heitinga retained his place in the back four, but the major loss for Everton continues to be Tim Cahill, who was playing in some meaningless and ridiculously timed Fifa competition instead of performing in this crucial game for his paymaster. In the absence of Louis Saha (out with a thigh strain), Beckford and Anichebe started as two strikers in a potentially attacking 4-4-2 line-up. No Carragher and no Gerrard for Liverpool.

Liverpool resorted to hoofball from the kick-off, letting Torres get an early shot in on Howard. Coleman went on a run down the middle and had a shot that went wide. Spearing gave the ball away direct to Beckford who saw a chance from distance but his attempt to lob Reina was hopelessly overhit. Distin put in a good header to diffuse a lively Liverpool attack.

Everton needed Fellaini to put his foot on the ball and give them a period of possession but Neville spoilt that with an overambitious forward pass that Coleman had no chance of reaching. But Coleman was there on the next play off Beckford and did well to force defensive play from the home side. At least the crunching tackles and excessive physicality were pleasingly absent from the first 10 mins but Spearing ran at Baines and won the first corner that eventually fell to Torres who skied his effort.

An excellent move from Baines played in Osman whose cross won Everton's first corner that Arteta fired in well but Osman could not control the cleared ball. Anichebe went on a good run through the middle but got pushed off the ball, a fair shoulder charge said Dowd, much to Moyes's annoyance as a tackle from behind by Neville got the kopites' backs up.

Torres did well to beat Distin, turn Heitinga and fire past Howard but he his shot smacked the post and Kyut's poor follow-up shot was deflected out for another corner off Neville. Everton held firm, Distin stronger in winning the ball off Kuyt and Everton strung together a good series of ground passes, winning another free-kick.

The free-kick tactic from the training ground involved a deep wide cross to Fellaini, lurking on the edge of the area, with a powerful header back into the area that won a corner. Arteta's delivery was not so good and play went up the other end for a Liverpool corner that was headed wide. Beckford was being a nuisance and won another free-kick but it was wasted.

Meireles went in high on Arteta and from the free-kick it was the same move to Fellaini that almost paid off for Beckford coming in close on Reina. Osman was getting somewhat ineffective possession but Baines eventually got a run down the wing and his cross won Everton's third corner. Baines delivered it superbly from the other side but no-one could turn it in and that allowed Liverpool to attack and score. Kyut's first shot was saved on the line by Howard, the follow-up shot blocked off Howard's arse and out to Meireles who fired unerringly through Baines and into the Everton net.

Another ferocious Liverpool attack tore through the Everton defence and it looked like a certain second but the Blues in disarray somehow kept the ball out as Everton struggled to settle again. Anichebe was fouled again and this time in a more dangerous position on the left but Arteta's cross was poorly overhit.

Another good move saw Baines cross low and hard but agonizingly too far ahead of Osman, who won a corner. The delivery was bizarre, and allowed Liverpool to break at speed. With loads of set-pieces, hardly any of them had gone close enough to either Beckford or Anichebe, who was playing far too deep.

Liverpool were given another spell of shooting practice that involved more corners and Heitinga getting a push on Torres. The ball broke to Arteta and he scooped it forward to Beckford who was wide but crossed well to Fellaini. However, Anichebe could do nothing with the cushioned header in front of goal and it was soon converted into another chance for Liverpool that Howard had to save.

A horrible ball from the otherwise excellent Fellaini in defence evaded Heitinga and played in Rodriquez who lashed in another free shot, thankfully straight at Howard. Liverpool ended the half having fashioned an incredible number of chances to score; Everton... er... incredibly, despite good midfield play... nothing threatening Reina's goal.

Dalglish took some decisive action at the break, subbing off Agger for that ugly Greek animal Kyrgiakos.

Everton won an early corner and a great delivery from Arteta to the back post saw Distin do a superb impression of Tim Cahill to power his header home off Johnson on the line. An excellent start to the second half!

Anichebe was very strong, out-heading Kelly on a long free kick from Howard to get Osman powering between two reds to get his pass in under tremendous pressure and Beckford did brilliantly, falling over but scooping the ball past Reina to give Everton the lead after just 7 mins of the second half. Reina went in the book for whining about Kelly coming off worst with Anichebe but Everton were ahead and should have gone on to win.

Liverpool looked to respond, Meireles getting another chance to shoot from the Everton right, but again, Howard saved well. Everton put together some excellent possession football again, a great move dominated by Fellaini but his final ball was defended away. At the other end Rodriguez got a weak header in on goal. Anichebe had a shot deflected that Reina was able to save easily. Torres was booked for a needles tackle on Neville.

An incredible decision allowed Liverpool back into the game, a totally unjust penalty for Howard attempting a close range save of a scuffed shot from Kuyt and being being beaten to it by Rodriguez, who touched it back to Kuyt and collapsed in a heap as Kuyt wellied the ball high and wide... No, Howard was deemed to have fouled Rodriguez from behind and Kuyt sent Howard the wrong way from the spot to make it 2-2.

Everton got a free-kick out wide left that Baines swung in superbly but Anichebe facing the wrong way, headed ridiculously away from goal off the head of incoming Fellaini, a golden chance spurned. There was some determined play from both sides, Fellaini going on a great run own the middle but taking too long and being crowded out.

73 mins gone and James Vaughan replaced Jermaine Beckford, an odd decision surely... but 4-3-3 would have been too foolhardy for Moyes. However, he needed to do something to take the momentum away from Liverpool, who continued to pressure the nervy Everton defence. Good play out of defence saw great passing that carried the ball up to the penalty area where Osman could not produce anything from it and he was then subbed by Rodwell. Everton looked to build but Anichebe poorly allowed the ball to role out of play and he was replaced by Bilyaletdinov, the third sub inside 8 mins by Moyes, and any rhythm they had was now gone.

Everton were looking to build but Vaughan was bizarrely playing down the left wing instead of being in the middle where he was sorely needed. Everton were in danger of running out of ideas and looking more tired with mistakes being made as time ticked on and Moyes perhaps settled for the draw.

Bily delivered a super throw that won a corner. Kyut was booked for cutting down Coleman. 90 mins and a long free-kick for that routine with Fellaini but he lost out to Kyrgiakos, as four extra minutes were added. But there was no urgency from Everton on their set pieces which seemed to indicate that David Moyes would be happy with another "incredible, unbelievable" draw at Anfield.

Reader Comments (167)

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David Lyon
1 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:04:46

Unbelievable. They are proper cheating bastards and the ref was a disgrace giving in to pressure to award that penalty. Awful

Garry Corgan
2 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:05:34

Were we watching the same game? As much as I hate to say it, it was a cast-iron penalty. Maxi took the ball first and Howard clattered both arms and a leg into the back of him. Shame, since Liverpool didn't have a chance in the second half. We should have won it 2-1.

Steve Barr
3 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:06:28

We gave away too many unnecessary fouls which took the pressure off Liverpool at vital times. Osman's stupid foul a great example, leading to Liverpool's equaliser. Another 3 points wasted.

Colin Malone
4 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:07:12

Goes to prove we are not strong enough in midfield to play 4 4 2, thats why Moyes put Victor on the left in the second half.
If only we had a great goalkeeper instead of a shot stopper.

Mikhail Ridhuan
5 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:07:05

That's a penalty, no question. Where does unjust come into it?

Anyways, I was happy with the performance. We really had a go in the second half. Pity about the equalizer but you cannot see it and NOT call it a pen.

Jason Heng
6 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:07:52

Cast iron? Didn't the ball already run away from Maxi when he dropped?

Michael Coville
7 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:08:04

What is wrong with Saha this time? I just can't understand why we let Yakubu go out on loan, unless, and this is a big If, we have someone coming in who is better than the Yak. I guess it is a decent draw away from home but we could have and should have won this one.

Max Main
8 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:12:16

It was as blatant a penalty as you'll see.

Richard Murray
9 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:13:29

It was a penalty.

Michael Kenrick
10 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:13:52

Howard was going down to save the ball, Rodriquez clatters into him from the side. Foul on the goalkeeper. Never a penalty.

Joe McMahon
11 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:14:00

Why do we always blow our chances? I suppose that's what makes winners. We are now a mid-table club again, the hope of 2008 & 2009 has sadly gone.

Martin Paice
12 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:16:01

Penalty or not, we really should've properly turned them over. Gutted.

Jim Long
13 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:16:18

Definite penalty. I feel robbed though as we ran the show completely. The only way they were going to score in the second half was through an own goal or penalty and they got it.

I thought Torres looked more like his old self today, the way he collapsed on the floor in a heap without anyone going near him was vintage Torres...

David Lyon
14 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:17:55

To be honest we should have had a free-kick about 30 seconds before that "penalty" when lady-boy clearly handled the ball to the lead up to their equaliser.

Andy Graham
15 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:13:40

Opportunity missed, I think, but still I believe that when we look back on that result it won't be a bad one in the course of the season. We scored twice and Becks scored again which is a great positive and only conceded a pen which, although I think it was a good decision, is unlucky and to have over 62% of possession in the 2nd half is encouraging even if we're not creating a whole host of chances yet. It now depends on our more obvious winnable games how well we will do this year and I have faith in this squad and the manager to get us 7th at least although I hold out a fair bit of hope for 6th too and if we really get going who knows. We'd have all taken the last 3 results before the Spurs game.

Brian Waring
16 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:18:08

Michael, not being funny, but it was a bang on pen. Maxi actually touches the ball away from Howard, and Howard bring him down. Maxi isen't going for a shot.

Jim Long
17 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:19:24

PS: I think the missing ingredient in the first half was a Peanut. It was only when we moved Anichebe out on the left a bit more did we actually have a threat on the left.

Would have liked to have seen Gueye come on instead of Billy...

Graham Holliday
18 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:18:16

Sorry guys, but definite penalty - even though Maxi played for it. Facing away from goal, he knocks the ball away and waits for the challenge. Howard complies. Naive from the American.

Thought Moyes got the starting line up wrong, but big credit for shifting Victor out left at start of second half. We earned both goals by hitting long balls to him in that position.

Not a tactic to employ in most games I'd think, but it worked today.

Mikhail Ridhuan
19 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:17:12

From what I remember, Michael, Maxi was back to goal with the ball when Howard fouled him. The ball was moving away from him. He got the man, not the ball.

I haven't seen the replay though so maybe there's more to it. But let's take the positives and build from this.

Amit Vithlani
20 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:14:55

Pen in my books, and the Editor's comments are hilarious.

Moyes changes his habit of a lifetime and goes from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2, which is what most people called for. This is away from home, against a team we hate losing to.

Having gone 4-4-2, the Ed wants him to go to 4-3-3. If Moyes did go 4-3-3 he'd have wanted 4-2-4. Maybe we should start every game with no defenders?

I like entertainment as much as the next guy, but occassionally I'd like to see us defend properly which, playing 4-4-2 today, we looked like we couldn't do (especially in the first half). 4-3-3 would have been suicide.

This was genuinely an unlucky 2 points dropped. We can't say that about most of the other 10 draws, I agree.

But to imply once again that the manager was to blame for tactical ineptitude is stretching things.

Ernie Baywood
21 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:21:34

It was a dive. A very blatant one. But Howard got himself caught in no-man's land for Maxi to make it happen. Was also a terrible dive out on the byline that created the chance.

Paul McGinty
22 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:20:13

MK, I agree 100% with you on the penalty. Howard dived.. Liverpool player came in from his side and initiated the contact.. What a coincidence..penalty at the Kop!

Brian Waring
23 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:23:59

Amit, we could have been 3-0 down at half - time, after a shithouse performance .

Ryan Holroyd
24 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:26:19

Shocking first half. 4-4-2 didn't work with the two players we had. Moyes switched Victor to left midfield and it worked for us. A good tactical change.

I think I'd be getting Arteta to play left mid now Pienaar has gone.

Brian Hill
26 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:25:54

Ernie, it was a clear and stupid foul by Osman and a clear penalty. If those same situations had happened in our favour you wouldn't question them.

Mike Hughes
27 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:29:48

More shocking revelations......

"having beaten Man City and Spurs in there recent games"

there instead of their

from the BBC

disgusting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9358275.stm

Max Main
28 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:33:59

Michael Kenrick - you are deluded if you think it was a foul on Howard. It's actually such a ridiculous statement that I kind of think you must be joking. But you're not, are you? Madness.

Brian Waring
29 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:30:03

Not being funny lads, and I can be as biased as the next blue. I recorded the game for my little lad, and just watched the pen over and over, to see if I could convince myself it wasn't a pen. But it was.

Maxi knocks the ball away from Howard, and Maxi is actually going away from Howard, Howard comes out arms stretched and brings him down.

I wonder what you would be saying if it was the other way round, and it wasn't given?

Ray Roche
30 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:29:22

All those who think Pienaar isn't that important to the team should have changed their minds after that performance. Our main threat this season has been our play down the left wing, which was missing today and, consequently, Baines was nowhere near as effective as he has been. I would sooner have seen Guaye given a chance before Osman but there's not much chance of that with Moyes.

Sreekumar Raman
31 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:36:33

Heitinga was invisible. Looked like Distin defending alone

Kase Chow
32 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:29:05

Happy we went 4-4-2 but we were really poor in 1st half. Whatever Moyes said to the players at HT had an effect and he deserves credit for making the necessary changes

At 2-1 we definitely should have won but we looked more keen to hold the 2-1 rather than push for 3-1...this is the 'small club' mentality that we have.

I think it was a penalty, even if the Red player did 'buy' it, Howard obliged.

I wish we could show more belief and push on. At 3-1 it would have been all over. Under Moyes, the Shite seem to have a sign over us. The only time we handed them their arses was the AJ derby.

Martin Mason
33 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:31:30

A very good and exciting game but a missed opportunity. I thought Fellaini gave a towering performance, what a player and how can we possibly keep him? For the RS Johnson had a magnificent game on his wrong side with Coleman in his pocket. I'm afraid with Osman out left and Arteta so ineffective we were never strong enough to play a good 4-4-2.

For me it was a cast-iron penalty and a stupid thing for TH to do. I've never said this before but Bily looked quite good and confident when he came on and his throw is very good. I'm sure that in the right position and with a good run in the side he just may be OK. Distin very good as always otherwise we were pretty average.

Mike Hughes
34 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:41:21

Just been announced on Radio Merseyside that Pienaar looks like he's off to Chelsea by Tuesday.

Looks like we'll get a half decent fee (£3.5m).

Rory Slingo
35 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:40:35

One thing's for sure, lads, we're fooked without Pienaar!

Nothing down the left-hand side anymore means all the opposition has to do is close down Coleman on the right and we start long-balling it to Fellaini. So we're back where we started, NO WIDTH.

That David Moyes, he's so shrewd in the transfer market isn't he?

Jamie Crowley
36 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:37:05

It was a penalty - but more importantly:

Where the fuck was Saha?

Why do we revert to a 4-5-1 at the 70 minute mark and play for a draw when we had caputured ALL the momentum and had them on the ropes? 62% possession in the second half and we back off... Jesus wept

Davie Turner
37 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:46:59

Everton boss David Moyes on Steven Pienaar: "We've had one offer from Chelsea which has been accepted. The offer we have had from Tottenham hasn't been accepted. He spoke to me yesterday and said he didn't feel his head was right to play in the game."

From bbc.co.uk

Talksport saying he going to Chelsea.

Larry Boner
38 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:39:31

I hate Derby games, but this one, the luckiest draw I have ever seen an Everton team attaining at Anfield Road, pathetic tactics from Mr Moyes, basically played with 9 men for the first 45 mins and should have been, minimum, 4-0 down at half time.

Osman looked half fit and left Baines on his own against two for the whole half. Anichebe, I kept thinking he had been substituted he appeared on the ball that rarely, no criticism of Beckford, though he missed a couple of sitters at least he was involved.

Second half, Mr Moyes makes the obvious change, swap Osman and Anichebe and play 5 in midfield, lo and behold, we dominate possession, score two goals and give Liverpool zilch.

Vaughany comes on and closes their back 4 down and the only way they are going to score is a penalty, in my opinion it was a penalty and the 2-2 was a fair result. Why the fuck can me, an ex Ford worker, can see what is going to happen, when a giuy who is paid £65,000/week can't ?

James Bernard
39 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:50:25

I think whoever is going to play at left mid needs time to link with Baines something like that cant be an instant partnership. You get the feeling Gueye could eventually link with him but I think Bily did good when he came on at left mid. Would like to see him in a central position still however.

Nick Entwistle
40 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:43:59

I may have become a penalty but any player collapsing for effect should be carded. No penalty.

Larry Boner
41 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:59:14

Sorry, but I forgot to mention, notice how Baines was rarely involved in the final third, why do you think that was???

Brian Waring
42 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:54:13

Nick, we could all talk about the pen till we're blue in the face. The thing is, its not as if the contact by Howard is minimal, like a flailing hand, or a slight clip. He actually has his 2 arms wrapped round him. It's a pen, no matter how much the player collapses for effect.

Are we now saying that refs should say to the players, you do get brought down, and it is a pen, but because you collapsed for effect, I'm not giving it, and by the way, here's a yellow card.

I remember on here, me pointing out how easily Arteta goes down at the slightest touch, and being told that it doesn't matter how easily he goes down, as long as there is some contact.

Jamie Crowley
43 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:02:48

Larry -

it didn't look to me like Anichebe dropped back until later in the half when we had the lead. Am I mistaken?

Looked to me like we got the lead and we went defensive. Any comments? Was I not seeing something (very possible, 5 kids running around while I watched...)

Jamie Crowley
44 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:06:41

Also with Brian - anyone without blue specs can only come to one conclusion - it was absolutely a penalty

Anthony Hawkins
45 Posted 16/01/2011 at 16:54:31

Particularly in the first half the defending was terrible. Second half, the Everton players panicked every time 'pool got the ball to the final third and the 'pool players were not closed down quickly enough.

The other issue I saw was that none of the Everton team wanted to take players on and always looked to pass.

Other than that, Vaughan should have replaced Anichebe NOT Beckford.

Phil Bellis
46 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:02:39

What a shower of biased arses on Toffeeweb. Have any of you ever played the game? at any level? Fuck off all those who say penalty!

I watched the game in the Rocket on Euston Road with the only Scouse accent being mine... I kicked / headed every ball, took no prisoners; wound up the Norgwegians, Dorset and Cockney Red.,

The Newcastle, Sunderland, Brum, Villa, West Ham fans all did the same. as me for the "penalty": Up in arms ? book the diving bastard! ? absolute mayham whem we realised the daft twat had given a penalty.

Andy Crooks
47 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:05:29

Larry, some good sense from you.. I really can't really complain about David Moyes today. However, Arteta should never take another corner in his life.

If we had started with Yakubu and Beckford we would have won. I have a really horrible feeling that something is badly wrong.

Jonathan Tasker
48 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:11:24

What is the point of playing a match like this? Everton, as usual, were playing the other team and the referee.

The penalty was ridiculous ? the referee and Sky were desperate to give it. How dare a non-Sky Big 4 team take the lead?

Football, when decisions like today were given, loses what little credibility it has left.

Everton, I am proud of you. The real result today was

LFC 1 ? EFC 2

Michael Kenrick
49 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:04:20

Looking at it again, yea, the redshite twat did get the touch ahead of Tim as he was going down, so it was a collision after the first contact. No intention to impede or hinder the attacker, just two players going for the ball. The striker's first touch was played unhindered directly back direct to Kuyt whose shot missed the target.

Is that really a late tackle by Howard? Perhaps... Was there any intent to deny a goalscoring chance? No, Howard was going for the ball, not the man, but he was a fraction quicker. Did it have any effect on the play of the ball or deny Liverpool some advantage in subsequent play? Absolutely not. He was still falling as Kuyt blazzed the ball over.

Imagine a similar situation, but the ball is in the air and the keeper collides with the striker, even if the striker gets the first touch, that is never given as a penalty against the keeper... is it?

If it was truly a foul, then what happened to playing advantage? If they had scored, it would not have been called back.

If the situation was reversed and it was Everton attacking (not just against Liverpool, but against anyone), that would never ever be given as a penalty to Everton ? not in a million years.

Andy Crooks
50 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:14:30

By the way, I know Yakubu has gone, he just shouldn't have.

Mike Iddon
51 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:11:29

Don't know what game you were watching; 1st half we got battered lucky it wasn't 3-0. This was Due to playing the lauded 4-4-2 where we were consistently outnumbered in midfield.

Second half Moyes pushed Vic out wide taking long balls from Jonny which led to 2nd goal and gave us numbers in midfield and RS nowhere near as potent. At half-time a point was miles away.

Stupid foul for second goal cost us a point but a draw was a fair result across the whole game; if you can't see that you must have shit in your eyes.

Simon Jenkins
52 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:10:29

A good point overall, as has been most of our draws at Anfield in recent years - yet again proving Moyes correct.

We were lucky not to be 2 or 3 down at h/t. It was a woeful first half. 2nd half we were a lot better. Another goal for Beckford. 4-4-2 for three games has netted 9 goals, a great return.

Just heard on the radio that Pienaar was initially selected but refused to play. This is the type of thing that David Moyes is up against, in addition to having no money and trying his best to get the fee he can (even if he should have sold him last summer but that's another story).

I don't think Anichebe up front is the answer; I'd much rather have kept Yakubu. Coleman had a quiet game. There was little coming down the left and we were missing a player of Pienaar's calibre, which makes his refusal to play for the club that pays his wages even more galling. A draw hurt them more than it hurt us. They were up for today and we spoiled the King Kenny homecoming. No YNWA at the final whistle, which is always a tell-tale sign that EFC have done their job. Just a pity we couldn't make it a victory. Overall I was pleased with that.

Alex Kociuba
53 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:08:40

Was a pen & 2-2 fair result in my opinion. If I was a neutral fan I would think we were lucky to get a draw.

Andy Peers
54 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:13:01

Osman, Anechebe and Vaughan are just a waste of time, I thought team selection was horrible again. I know Osman set up Beckford's goal but he was useless the rest of the match. More bad decisions by Moyes getting rid of Yak when I would have played him with Beckford after Saha was missing. Can't believe we haven't locked in another striker before Yakubu left... mind boggling!!

Mike Iddon
55 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:19:25

Saha injured by the way, thigh strain.

Phil Bellis
56 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:17:30

OK ... one question
Would that "penalty" have been given for Everton in the same circumstances?
C'mon - be honest

Brian Waring
57 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:16:48

Michael, if that happens against us, and its not given, are we coming on here, calling it a good decision by the ref, or are we all up in arms screaming for a pen?

Mike Iddon
58 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:22:50

It was a fucking pen for Christ's sakes.

Jamie Crowley
59 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:23:44

Yes it would have Phil, because it was a stone-cold penalty... he was late, got his legs.

Doesn't really matter if the guy went down like a hooker grabbing a 20 spot ? it was a penalty.

Art Tosh
60 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:12:54

Jamie - looked to me like we 'almost committed to 4-4-2, Anichebe played a little deeper than an out-and-out. We definitely went 4-5-1 at 70 mins.

Refs are always going to give pens in those situations - even if Howard hadn't touched him.

Micheal Lynch
61 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:25:36

The big question is how have we left Piennar and Yak leave in the same week without replacements. I don't understand that. It must be because we are in serious financial trouble. Please, Kenwright ? sell up.

Jamie Crowley
62 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:26:40

TY Art. I agree it was a tenative 4-4-2 no question. But it really did appear to me that it didn't go full fledge 4-5-1 until later in the second half.

And I don't think we should have made that adjustment. We had them on the ropes the second half without question.

Larry Boner
63 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:10:03

Jamie, sorry but not sure what your doubts are, we changed to 4-5-1 from the start of the 2nd half, Osman and Anichebe swapping positions and Osman playing behind Beckford, but deeper than Cahill would. No cover for Baines for the whole game, so he basically played as a left back, instead of an attacking left back, Pienaar missing the catalyst for this.

I had doubts regarding this, as soon as I heard the line-up, but Mr Moyes did not, so we are the luckiest Everton side I have ever seen in a Derby game, 4-0 should have been the half-time score, minimum, Mr Moyes opened his eyes at half-time and we should have won, going on our 2nd half display, with players in their more aggressive positions. Osman, though he set up Beckfords goal, should not have been in the starting 11.

I cannot believe that Toffeeweb guys have more idea about football than a qualified coach like Mr Moyes, we should have played the 4-5-1 as soon as Saha was declared unfit, Anichebe does not have the commitment to play as one of a two upfront, Vaughan would have been a better option.

Stuart Reid
64 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:24:00

Absolute stonewall penalty, 100%, even through the most blue-tinted spectacles. Denying it just makes you look a bit silly.

As for Cahill being away, it is the Asian equivalent of the European Championship so it is hardly meaningless, and it is played in January because most of Asia is too hot in summer, particularly Qatar.

If only someone had told FIFA...

Phil Bellis
65 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:29:54

Jamie there are 2 LLs in 'bollocks'.

Steve Collins
66 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:26:35

Moyes played the 4-4-2 system everyone wanted and played Vic and Beckford from the start what people wanted. He also gave Vaughan a run. As if I'm not mistaken, people did not want Saha playing anymore short memories with some. Also didn't people want to see the back of the Yak?

We don't have a team that can play 4-4-2 our midfield just isnt strong enough.

Bad defending cost us the first goal and an unfortunate crap rule in football that if a goalkeeper is commited and a player touches him and falls over, it's a pen.

Liverpool were always going to be on the stronger foot as they were at home and on a so-called resurgent due to "King Kenny".

Moyes played the most experienced team he could although I would have played Rodwell instead of Osman as I think he offers more.

Brian Waring
67 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:22:02

Simon, I don't understand, when you say "Yet again proving Moyes correct "

Are you saying, that when he says "Unbelievable draw" he is proven right, because the draw today is 'Unbelievable' ?

If so, I don't understand how this could be classed as an unbelievable draw. They had a team that only contained 2 quality players, Torres and Reina. A midfield of Maxi, Lucas Spearing, hardly a trio of players who you should fear, Johnson at left-back who even the redshite say is shite, a young lad at right-back, 2 slow donkey centre-halves, hardly a team you would consider a draw against 'Unbelievable'.

Gary Mortimer
68 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:20:46

First half was dire. Second half much much better. Some observations.

Arteta did not get involved.
Fellaini everywhere.
Stupid penalty to give away.
Big Vic had a good 15 minutes at start of 2nd half other than that he was too sulky and moody.
Osman was too slow, not strong enough and has no pace.
Nothing wrong with Beckford's movement off the ball - I think he'll come good.
Distin was really solid.

A missed opportunity, but after the first half, I'm glad we got something out of game. 4 points off them isn't too bad.

Dirk Kuyt is a horrible twat!!!
King Kenny is a pretender like Bonnie Prince Charlie.
The media still think that they are an important club in the title race!

We'll miss Peanuts.

Jamie Crowley
69 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:35:06

Phil - lol

Larry - looked to me like we were still in a 4-4-2 beginning of second half with Anichebe flairing out wide - not a 4-5-1.

But again dude, I had 5 kids running around, a 20 month old with "poop problems", and it was 9 a.m. here kick-off.... I'll go back at watch it later tonight when the little ones are off to Beddy White's party.

Colin Wordsworth
70 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:38:15

Gary, re your last comment!... .No we won't!

Peter Hall
71 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:04:45

The penalty seemed obvious to me, and when Tim Howard was leaving the pitch ? I am no lip reader ? but he put his arm on Dowd's shoulder and said something along the lines of 'ok, you had to give it' and Dowd nooded and clapped Howard on the back.

Liverpool were lucky though, it was one of their few attacks in the second half and they looked beaten. Mind you, it wasn't obvious where our goal would come from in the first half.

MotM: Fellaini best playerr on the pitch by a country mile. Well done, Beckford.

Michael ? good to see a bit of good old bias ? if unexpected from somebody as balanced as you!

Russ Quinlan
72 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:34:14

Sometimes I wonder if we all watch the same game! Howard fooked up, it was a penalty cos he clattered into him from the back when there was no need, he was going away from goal but Howard went through him, there was a fookin camera right there!

Also I'm not an Osman fan, but he made the goal for Beckford so that alone justifies his selection for me. Arteta needs a kick up the arse, no creativity, still passing sideways, when he does go forward he looks better but he's lost his bottle.

For me Howard gifted them the pen but if it had been the other way, we'd have been screaming for it too.

Brian Waring
73 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:43:13

I think its funny that while we are debating pen or no pen, no- one has mentioned that the corner that led to our first goal, actually came off the blue boot of Anichebe, shown on the replays, and was never a corner.

It's swings and roundabouts.

Jim Hourigan
74 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:31:07

We had to pull Vic back because Osman was so completely useless and Baines was under the cosh. 4-5-1 because Osman is crap does not justify the system it merely reinforces the poor selection at the start.

Stonewall penalty lads, but the failure to go for the jugular at 2-1 is of more concern. Moyes must grow some balls and go to win games emphatically instead of sitting back. Yes, every so often it will fail but far more often it will kill off teams and build up confidence. They were there for the taking second half but we failed to go for it.

Larry Boner
75 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:48:18

Jamie Crowley, fully understand, make sure them kids all grow up as bluenoses, God cannot ask for anything more.

Andy Crooks
76 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:45:45

Peter, Fellaini is a red card waiting to happen. How many times did he give the ball away in front of the back four? I admire him and think he is vital if we play 4-4-2 but today he either doesn't know his job or he is poor at it.

Al Reddish
77 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:44:39

I see the usual negative slant has been put on this. It WAS a penalty and as for the 'MOYES REVERTED TO 4-5-1 LATE ON AND THE GAME ENDED 2 -2' and 'EVERTON SETTLE FOR A DRAW'. Sorry but what utter shit.

We were outplayed first half by our players failing to close down theirs and allowing them to win all the 50-50's. Second half, no doubt after a bollocking during the break, we stamp our authority on the game and take the lead. We then defend poorly and give away a penalty.

We went to 4-5-1 because we had ran out of ideas and the redshite started to have the upper hand. Rodwell did nothing but I thought Bily was a brath of fresh air... and how long have people wanted Vaughan on the pitch.

Result was fair, Moyes went for it and it was a GOOD draw in the end.

Graham Holliday
78 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:48:22

Jamie Crowley - we switched Vic out left at the start of the second half (and did have a 5-10 minute spell in the first half where we played like that actually).

We scored both goals from Vic being positioned there.

1) Long ball which led to the corner
2) Long ball that eventually broke into the box

Both were hit towards the Vic v Kelly tussle.

So, ironically, it was whilst playing 4-5-1 that we scored both goals! Numbers don't matter really, it's about how you target the play.

Our problem in the first half was that we sat off when they had the ball deep, and invited pressure whereas they hassled us at every opportunity.

On that note, why does Neville never close down his man? Ever so frustrating, and ultimately led to the first goal.

Brian Waring
79 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:55:17

I couldn't believe the stats for the game, the shite had 54% of the possesion, they had 11 shots on target to our 4, also, they had 5 shots off target to our 4. Maybe we were lucky to come away with a draw???

Al Reddish
80 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:54:43

Also, was I the only one that saw a blatant handball by Torres just before the lead up to the penalty, that Sky seemed to mysteriously omit from their replays? That would have got the mardy looking twat a second yellow if that would have been picked up.

Michael Lynch
81 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:15:12

I reckon a draw was a fair result. I'm as bitter as they come, as well.

Colin Potter
82 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:47:51

According to Sky News, Pienaar's transfer has broken down, because of his wage demands.

Aodhan O'Faolain
83 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:14:56

The ball should have been cleared before the penalty. It was a soft one to give away, but you always conceed those away from home. Refs are also scared of the Kop, but not as much as they used to. Delighted to deny King Kenny a happy homecoming who some will argue is allegedly the biggest crook in football.

John McLoughlin
84 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:24:02

We were terrible in the 1st half, lucky to be only one-nil down. Much improved in the 2nd half and 2-1 I thought we would hold on, but wasn't to be. Overall we should be happy considering the 1st half but when you lead 2-1 when you have not beaten them at their place for so long coupled with it being their worst team in my life, I am tinged with dissapointment.

Jamie Crowley
85 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:15:19

Graham -

Got it. But did anyone notice the CLEAR change of approach of approach around the 70th minute.

The chaos in my lovely little abode prohibited me from noticing the switch to the 4-5-1. But I didn't notice it b/c we were still going for it. It seemed awfully obvious to me that on or around the 70th minute we started to play VERY defensively, stopped pushing, and played not to lose. That's when I noticed we were 4-5-1 and thought we'd changed formation to protect.

Graham - as you say and trust me you know MUCH more about this than I do - it's not about the numbers. I fully understand playing a 4-5-1 on the road against certain teams. But the RS are not one of those teams. I would have never stopped attacking for the full 90+. They frankly aren't that good and we needed to take the game to them. Whether that's 4-5-1 b/c Saha's out or 4-4-2 with he and Beck up front or whatever. Play the formation that best suits the players you have available - but in this game it should have been attack, attack, attack. And we most definately stopped doing that IMO around that 70 minute mark.

After an absolutely horrible first half we came out with aggression, went for it, had all the momentum and could have driven the knife in the back. What did we do?

We thought to protect despite every sign screaming to not lay off the gas.

That's frustrating.

But given that first half.... I guess the result was fair b/c we were GAWD AWFUL!

Ian Kearney
86 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:29:09

Just wanted to add, despite all the abuse hurled at him this season, I thought Heitinger was excellent today, a superiour CH to Jagielka.

Jamie Crowley
87 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:33:07

Do ppl just say "Heitinger" to piss of Michael?

Neil Humphreys
88 Posted 16/01/2011 at 17:55:34

What kind of squad will we have with Peanuts and Yak gone? Got to say I cant imagine us going the rest of the jan window without selling again. We are fooked - good and proper. No strikers of note - little creativity in midfield since Arteta seems to be half the player he was - thank God the defence is half decent.
I hope Moyes has the mother of all Rabbits to pull out of the hat or we are mid-table mediocraty once again.

Ian Kearney
89 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:35:24

Only after a day on the ale Jamie!

Jamie Crowley
90 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:36:49

Ale - shmale...

Our ass got tight at 70 minutes. Sober as a post here.

Jamie Crowley
91 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:38:22

Ian... pass it down

Neil Humphreys
92 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:35:55

Just seen the pen - didnt see the game live - recorded it. Piss poor by the keeper. What was he thinking of? By my reckoning he's cost us at least two more like three victories this season.

Jamie Crowley
93 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:42:43

Neil -

Yak was lazy and ineffective and Pienaar wanted to leave.
Moyes will bring in a winger on the cheap and we won't miss a beat. We're not fucked at all - we'll be better for it in the end despite seeing some challenges without them this particular match.

Gavin Ramejkis
94 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:36:04

We'll never get a penalty at Mordor in most people's lifetimes (we've had one there in 73 fucking years), the penalty is debatable as he was going away from goal and to me looked like he was already on his way down looking for the contact.

My worries are:

Where the fuck was Saha?
Why let Yakubu go if you have no replacement? Anichebe is not and never will be Yakubu
If Pienaar is going why not try Gueye in that slot as Osman will never be a winger, how long is DM going to wait, until Pienaar has actually left?

Daniel Johnson
95 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:43:20

@91

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, Howard had to go for the ball it was just unfortunate.

Al Reddish
96 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:43:34

Neil, it was poor by Howard but he did make some very good saves to keep us in it first half.

Jamie Crowley
97 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:47:51

Gavin -
Osman needs to get hurt to force Moyes's hand to HAVE to play Gueye.

Then Gueye will get his chance and most likely we will be asking "Why the fuck didn't he pull the trigger on that one eons ago?"

Sound familiar?

Gavin Ramejkis
98 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:51:36

Jamie, too right mate, three months before he gave Coleman a crack. Osman's not a bad little player but if we want to kick on he needs to be looked at as a squad player and a central midfielder not a winger.

James Cadwaladr
99 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:55:37

Was a definite penalty but Howard got sucked in. Heitinga played very well.

We are really going to miss Pienaar, and today showed it. Mainly ineffective down the left without him. Osman too narrow, we need to get someone like Jarvis in if we can, someone who is a genuine left-sided player to keep what little balance we have.

Disappointed not to have taken the points but would have been delighted with a draw at half-time when we were by far the worse side.

Colin Huntington
100 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:03:36

It was a nailed on pen. The ref got a lot else wrong though ? Torres continues to get away with murder.

Continuing to take Moyes's 'incredible' quote out of context in order to push Toffeeweb's anti-Moyes rhetoric is getting annoying lads ? give it a rest.

Colin Malone
101 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:05:24

Anyone know any rumours about an incident around the ground?

Bert Bunton
102 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:59:21

We never really played a 4-4-2, since Vic was out wide the whole match. It was a 4-5-1. Osman and Vic have no clue how to bring Baines into the flow compared with Pienaar (let alone Gueye-Bilya).
Arteta continues to disappoint. His corner is basically proof that every squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

Michael Kenrick
103 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:19:56

A lad on 606 said it was an Everton fan, seriously injured or even killed. Must have been during the game, related to the PA announcer saying that Anfield Road was closed at one end owing to a police incident or somat.

Another lad on 606 said it was never a penalty, so there are a couple of us who just don't see it. What else could Howard do but go for the ball? You'd all be giving him shit for staying back on the line in that situation.

Dominic Duerden
104 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:23:03

Anichebe battered Liverpool in the second half, they could not cope with him. How anyone could wish to replace him with fat useless Yak is amazing!!

Fellaini my man of the match, Tim Howard was to blame for the second and possibly the first goal as well.

James Cadwaladr
105 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:24:00

Terrible to hear Michael.

Howard should have stayed on his toes on the post.

KPR Williams
106 Posted 16/01/2011 at 18:53:58

The penalty..of course it was a penalty, did you see the pen against them last week?

4-4-2... 1st half we were over run in midfield, it didn't work; they could and probably should, but for Howard have been 2-0 maybe 3-0 up at half time, defence was a shambles... Coleman went awol as a right mid and instead was making defensive clearances.

The 1st goal... how did Baines manage to bend his body out of the way of that?

2nd half... yes... Everton have turned up... the same set of players were first to everything. Did Mr Negative tell them to sit back an try an snatch an Edward Woodward?... Nope... we got into 'em... battered 'em and the 2nd half was entirely ours. We used every single attacking option we had at our disposal and in my opinion, I'm fucking proud of every player on the pitch in the 2nd half. 2-2... fair result... I'd like to think not, but on our 1st half showing yeah, I'll take that...

Summary... Team goes 4-5-1 at home with an effectual striker and bosses the game, unlucky not to lead 2/3-0 as our defence cant cope. Half-time team talk heralds a different Everton... attack, attack etc etc etc... we were the daddies..

Am I happy with a draw? After the 1st half shambles, yes. End of game... yes; we missed Cahill, some of them crosses had his name written all over them.

They are shite. Thank fuck them derbies are over an done with for another season. I will have a heart attack on derby day.

Roger Trenwith
107 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:28:45

Watched the game with a neutral (Sheff Utd) mate. Although I was disappointed we didn't kill them off once we got the lead, my mate thought the draw a fair result, and he's probably right. A deffo "home team" penalty btw - imagine the situation reversed at Goodison, we'd all feel cheated if it was not given.

Dave McCarten
108 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:18:37

It was all about "King Kenny" on Sky today. When have they EVER had the in-breds singing that dire song all the way through and not going to a break before kick-off? Fookin' never. Just shows how biassed they are.

Mike Hughes
109 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:29:28

I hope it's not true about an incident where an EFC fan was injured / killed but it wouldn't surprise me with those scumbags. I hear the call too - last one on 606.

When will the media / world wake-up up to the fact that they are whining, precious pond life?

No doubt they'll come out of the shit smelling of roses.

Andrew James
110 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:08:36

Colin Malone - yeah I heard something on 5 live

It sounds like there was a fight and a fatality.

Very bad news and was hoping the arrests at the North East derby would be the only derby that kicked off.

Great set up from Ossie and spanking good finish from Becks. If you'd told me we'd get between 5-10 goals from him I would have said "bargain". He looks on course for that now. He has a lot to learn but I thought he did very well and it is looking like Moyes letting the Yak go could be a good decision both in short and long term.

Mike Green
111 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:28:26

1st half - what we we playing at? No purpose, no drive, nothing.

2nd half - much better and think we deserved the win.

Fellaini - awesome
Distin - excellent

As far as the pens concerned as soon as it happened I thought "oh fuck, thats a pen" so dont have to think about it really as I wouldve given it in real time. Looking at the replay I do think what a bunch of jammy bastards (again) they are though.

Today was definitely an opportunity lost.

Gutted.

David Price
112 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:58:54

Did hear three blues were set on by 30 kopites, one ended up in hospital with head injuries, the other two went to the game dripping in blood.

As for the game,
penalty, yes.
Could have been two or three at the break and i feared the worse.
Distin and Heitinga excellent with top distribution.
Osman off the pace but great awareness for the 2nd goal, think Bily is worth a go now though.
Victor on the left seemed to settle well with Baines in the 2nd half and deserves praise for this performance.
Beckford has to maintain a run in the side now, great finish for his goal.

Just seen "KING KENNY'S" interview, moan fucking moan, the twat hasn't changed a bit. Never a corner for the 1st, foul by Vic for the 2nd, with this blinkered approach he will continue to do shite. Strong rumour that Moyes celebrated like crazy when we scored, if Sky had managed to take the camera off dogleash for a second we might have known for sure. Good fight back by the boys.

John Keating
113 Posted 16/01/2011 at 19:56:52

I've been a bitter blue since the early 60s and seen some crazy results but thought todays was pretty fair over the piece. Torres played well first half but Jags was sorely missed as he's got Torres well sewn up

Sure it would have been different with Cahill and Pienaar available but not to be. Sorry guys, a bit embarrassed by anyone who thinks that was not a stonewall penalty.

David Price
114 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:13:53

Oh yeah, and Fellaini my Man of the Match. Outstanding from the young man, I think Spurs or Chelsea needed him more than Pienaar. Their loss, thank fuck.

Ian Smitham
115 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:20:56

Jamie #96 Are you seriously suggesting that you want an Everton player to get hurt???

Gavin, many comments you make do make sense, to me at least, but you are not putting your reputation on here at risk by agreeing that you want an Everton player to get injured are you?? Please common

Andrew Laird
116 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:14:28

I'm sorry but I fail to see how that was not a penalty. After the first half I was very happy that crinkle cut head was suspended or we would have been dead and buried. Anichebe will never be a striker as long as he has a hole in his arse and his inclusion in the starting 11 was beyond belief. If people on here say that Yak was lazy what the hell is this guy?

Bily who linked well with Baines vs Scunthorpe was again overlooked for the feeble Osman who should be played in the centre or be on the bench. Distin must smell lovely because Arteta was holding his hand for 90 minutes again.

Everton FC ? why the fuck do you only turn up for 25 mins a game?! Very, very disappointed although a draw was the best we could have hoped for after the first half.

James Cadwaladr
117 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:25:21

Ian and Andrew, I think you're taking what Jamie said out of context. Rather than suggesting he wants an Everton player to get hurt, he is saying, Osman will have to get injured before Gueye gets a chance. Come on lads!.

John Ford
118 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:21:35

Watch their first goal ? Baines runs out to stop the shot but Distin stayed seven yards away just standing there. Five minutes earlier, when Torres blazed over, Distin did the same thing, just stood and waited. He just doesn't close down in those situations. It was immediately noticeable when watching it, like time had stood still.

I'm not saying he doesn't do a job for us but I've noticed this oddity about him, he gives people space in certain situations. In this case, it cost us a goal.

James Cadwaladr
119 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:27:26

Apologies not david, Ian and Andrew

KPR Williams
120 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:26:17

Gavin 97 ? did you see our bench today? Vaughan, Baxter????

I think he used every squad player he had at his disposal today...

John Keating
121 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:32:12

Michael no 48 Sorry mate you really have to look at what constitutes a penalty i.e a direct free kick occuring in the area.
I don't think any of your points are relevant
Pure and simple definite penalty no ifs buts or maybes
Believe me if that had been Reina bringing down one of our lads not one person on here would even question it

Noel Lynam
122 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:35:52

Michael, since when does there need to be intent to deny a goalscoring opportunity for it to be a penalty? It was a penalty and an easy decision for the ref to make. If he had aimed a kick at him off the ball, but inside the box, it would still have been a penalty. My point being: a foul in the box is a penalty regardless of whether it denies a goalscoring opportunity or not.

Howard didn't cover himself in glory for the first goal either when he should have done a lot better with Kuyt's header. That's a lot of points his errors have cost us this season.

Brian Waring
123 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:39:38

David (#113) It wasn't a corner for our first mate. When it shows the replays, you can see that the blue boot of Anichebe gets the last touch, so he's got a point there.

For the second, it's never a foul, Kelly just lands akwardly.

Jamie Crowley
124 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:41:06

Ian @116-

God no! Don't read into the toungue and cheek comment of injuries force Moyes' hand to try the young ones...

Would never wish injury on any one - opponents, Blues, refs, whatever. Never.

Hope that clears that up. Embarrasing you thought so. Posts don't reflect tone....

Rob Coles
125 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:52:03

Time for Howard to be given a long term rest. Yes he made a couple of good saves, but isn't that what he is supposed to do? He should have held the ball which led to their first goal and the penalty.............How many points has he gifted the opposition this season now?

Michael Kenrick
126 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:49:58

Noel, I was just trying to consider all the angles. If Howard had intentionally gone for the player to prevent him from playing the ball, yes, I could see that as an intentional foul.

If on the other hand, two players go for a 50-50 ball, and collide in the process... I just don't think that's a penalty. As I've said, and nobody has contracted this, if it was an aerial challenge and the striker had headed the ball to his own player,setting up a chance on goal, and then gone down in a heap after colliding with the keeper, that would not be a penalty. Contact like that happens many times during a game and it is hardly ever called.

I think Rodriquez was already on his way down before there was any contact, which actually makes it a dive.

Gareth Humphreys
127 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:51:15

Michael Kenrick - about as clear cut penalty as you will ever see.

KPR Williams
128 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:56:45

rob 126

harsh mate...where were the defence on the 1st goal?
Howards has had bad days for us this season...today certainly wasn't one of them..

Tim O'Connell
129 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:55:18

To consolidate thoughts from various posts:

1) MOM Fellaini - He was everywhere and most of what he did was good.

2) I thought it was a pen - when I saw it real time I thought oh no what has TH done and seeing replays the same.

3) A decent result - the Shite had more chances in the first half and we were by far the better side in the second

4) Real worry with Peanuts leaving - Bainsey was very quiet and we had no penetration down the left which over the last couple of years has been our strength

KPR Williams
130 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:59:37

Michael...
you see it in almost every game...player makes effort to get the ball with intent only to get the ball...opposing player nicks it away 1st an the player goes through the fella who just got there 1st...queue swan dive if your wearing a red shirt but there is no way in the world anybody can say that they wouldn't want a pen if that happened to their team..

Nick Armitage
131 Posted 16/01/2011 at 21:01:59

Ian Kearney - I have been saying it for a long time, Jagielka ain't fit to lace Heitinga's boots at centre half. Heitinga is a much better footballer and doesn't get himself into the pickles that you see Jagielka in all the time.

Jagielka invites pressure on to himself and the team, he got found out big time against Spain playing his usual game.

Michael Kenrick
132 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:57:37

Watch it in slo-mo ? Rodriguez actually plays the ball, plants his feet and starts collapsing at the knees BEFORE Howard makes ANY CONTACT. It was very clever by him because it worked. He knew Howard had to go for the ball and effectively threw himself in front of Howard to get it first. The correct decision would have been a goal kick from the follow-up shot, and yellow card to Maxi for simulation. NO PENALTY.

David Bridge
133 Posted 16/01/2011 at 21:07:08

First half was awful the Moyes ineffective hoof ball tactic.
Second half was excellent we challenged and chased every ball and pressured the RS.

Anichebe, Osman (At fault for the needless freekick led to the pen), Bily, Vaughan, Neville, Feillani and Heitinga are all shit and need to be put up for sale in this window.

Baines, Beckford, Howard, Distin should be rewarded with new contratcts.

Arteta just walk away you disinterested beaut.

COYB Moyes Out!!!

KPR Williams
134 Posted 16/01/2011 at 21:21:07

Mad how people supporting the same team can have such differing views on the same decisions/players/manager/game ain't it...

Alex Kociuba
135 Posted 16/01/2011 at 21:33:58

John Ford, First of all Distin has been fantastic you don't give him the credit he deserves. Distin invites attackers into 'the space' where he can out muscle or have a yard advantage in the attackers run. He is simply playing to his strengths (literally). Its unlikely that if Distin is tight to Defoe or Torres that he'll be able to keep up with them if they burst forward.

Ian Smitham
136 Posted 16/01/2011 at 21:34:49

David, with respect , just an insult to your own intelligence. Fella' ffs ? and judgement on Bily FFS , in how many mins ? Johnny is not my fave but fair do's

Jon Cox
137 Posted 16/01/2011 at 20:51:46

Soon as I saw Osman on the left and Anichebe up front I nearly cried.

Gueye did well when he came on last week and Billy should have been in instead of Anichebe.

I said it before that if we get some money for Pienaar then we should make an offer for Matty Etherington.

Anyone see him over the w/end. He played a blinder. I think he would be the perfect replacement for SP.

Thought Distan played well again today always trying at least to play the ball out of defence. MOTM for me though was Fellaini.

Don't know the latest on Pienaar but he better get used to a Chelsea bench if he does go.

Disappointed in the end and knew we had to grab a third if we were going to win. It's a shame Howard went in all guns blazing instead of going for the cover. Oh well we'll never know.

Not sure I'll be able to stand any more derbies. The nerves are shot to fuck.

Timothy Laynge
138 Posted 16/01/2011 at 22:14:50

http://rutube.ru/tracks/3990704.html?v=f2019e91359c211ccc96f312e58f92d5

Michael.Think you're spot on mate.The cheaters are at it again if you watch the ref and the RS cheater. It would seem Dowd knows he has dived but still goes n gives a penalty."Incredible draw"hey."unblvbl.......

Andy Morden
139 Posted 16/01/2011 at 22:33:49

Watched the game in the pub. In 'real time' - i.e. as the penalty incident occured - I thought Howard had given away a penalty. Loads of shite fans around me were up in arms and I was laughing my head off at them initally as I thought we'd gotten away with it. Then the Linesman gave it. Bollocks. It did look a penalty to be fair.

Albert Perkins
140 Posted 16/01/2011 at 22:05:57

Distin was great today. He's not perfect but he was great today. How many times did he outpace the attack to put the ball out. Right up till the last kick, when he was giving all he could.

I love Baines, but when we defended against Man City no-one turned their body from the ball. Everyone stood straight and took the ball to the body to keep out the shots. Bainsey twisted away from the ball and it cost the goal. Defenders must stand firm and take the hits.

We should have been at least 2 down at half time. Great comeback and fair result. Of course, I would rather we got a jammy deflection winner off the ref, but that was the dream I woke up from this morning.

Chad Schofield
141 Posted 16/01/2011 at 22:52:36

Pen for me, although at one point I thought we'd got away with it.

The first substitution was highlighted my frustration with Moyes... Why did he take off Beckford? He'd scored and while a change was needed for me it seemed to make sense to take off Anichebe who was already beginning to look frustrated. He ended up having to haul off Anichebe ten minutes later because it looked like he was either going to get sent off or have a tearful tantrum. Vaughan's enthusiasm could have scared the RS into mistakes, but as a lone striker he was chasing shadows.

We could have won the game today which is frustrating. We were poor in the first half, but agree Fellaini was brilliant.

Brian Waring
142 Posted 16/01/2011 at 23:33:54

Michael, I think the ayes to the right have it.

Kunal Desai
143 Posted 16/01/2011 at 23:40:34

Its funny how the shite get the big decisions when penalties are concerned in these fixtures and we get fuck all. This one was far from obvious to that of Gimp Carraghers manhandling of Lescott's three seasons ago.

Shaun Lyon
144 Posted 16/01/2011 at 23:40:08

On balance we should be happy with it, though it feels disappointing obviously. Just watched penalty decision again and still can't work out what Howard was doing. Painful to be 2-1 up and throw it away... Let's look at the points we've taken off them this season and be pleased.
Having said that, with the notable exception of Fellaini, who was MotM, where was our midfield today? Some no-shows sadly.

Jarrod Prosser
145 Posted 17/01/2011 at 00:02:00

Not disappointed with the result, given the way we played, but am disappointed with the performance.

We missed Pienaar today. My concern isn't replacing Pienaar as such. It's more about what effect it will have on Baines, who has become a star with Pienaar ahead of him. Baines was strangely subdued today.

The peanlty? I'd say it was 'technically' there - Howard did initiate the contact after all. However, given the softness of said contact, and the fact that the player & ball were heading away from goal, i thought it was play on. Home team decision, for mine.

Great to see Heitinga get in Torres' face. Frankly, was frightened that Nando was going to tear Distan apart in the first 30 mins, but once Heitinga moved onto him it was a different story. Johnny owned him. Allowed Distin to concentrate on the ball & he improved immeasurably after about 35 mins.

And Jermaine Beckford....EVERTON LEGEND!

Gavin Ramejkis
146 Posted 17/01/2011 at 00:03:52

KPR #119, I think we've all known Yak was on his way before he went, how come we've not had even a token gesture replacement for him? Similarly Pienaar going, get Gueye ready or whoever is going to take the mantle of the left wing from him.

Ian #114, I'm not asking for an injury to any player in blue just asking what does it take for Moyes to try something different? Jamie pointed out it tends to be enforced changes through injury such as our run without strikers last season, it wasn't through choice.

KPR Williams
147 Posted 17/01/2011 at 00:32:43

I doubt the Yak would have been let go had Saha been injured midweek. What is his injury does anybody know? I can only guess as far as Pienaar, probably not risked in case injury jeopardised any transfer...

I hope to fuck there are some replacements in by our next game same as, knowing us, it'll be last minute dot com as usual, save paying a couple of weeks' wages.

Kevin Tully
148 Posted 17/01/2011 at 00:18:44

I think we have to be happy after the first half - we could have been 3 down.

Feared the worst when the team was announced, especially our front two.

I will settle for four points from the scum. They had a bounce with queen Kenny back today.

I am beginning to like the fact they are harping back to their past glories, yeah, keep fucking singing you gang of pricks.

Torres sums the twats up, trying to get Howard sent off after they got their pen. Horrible bunch of moaning sulking bastards who think they are entitled to success.

Thanks Pienaar, fucking the team over before a derby, hope you rot on a sub's bench the rest of your career.

James Stewart
149 Posted 17/01/2011 at 02:01:17

I would be screaming penalty if it were at the other end and though it was soft it was a pen.

The person to blame is Howard! Complete stupidity to dive in like that. Was never gonna get the ball and there was no need to do it. He was also poor on the first goal.

Martin Faulkner
150 Posted 17/01/2011 at 02:11:27

Would it have still been a penalty had Kuyt buried in in the back of the net?

No it wouldn't have, ergo it shouldn't have been a penalty after he blazed it over the crossbar from 5 feet out.

You either play advantage or you don't, now i know there wasn't much time between the 2 things happening but Kuyt had a golden opportunity to score which he fucked up, the Ref THEN gave a penalty after the fact.

Taken in isolation on it's own it was a penalty, taken in the whole sequence of events with Kuyt's glaring miss then I don't think it was, they still had a perfectly good opportunity to score from the advantage. I know had it been us then every fucker would've been saying.... what a miss by Beckford, what penalty? It was advantage......

Tommy Davis
151 Posted 17/01/2011 at 04:14:44

Regarding the incident (Colin #100): According to the Daily Post online, an Evertonian was attacked by large group of youths, (sustaining a broken jaw) two other people came to the victims assistance and they were also attacked by these gobshites. The incident occurred at the junction of Anfield Rd & Blessington Rd, by The King Harry Pub. If this was the 'incident' then we will all be very relieved!

Re: the pen, I hate to agree with Michael Kenrick, but as a non biased, non Bitter Blue, no Blue tinted specs wearing Evertonian.......it was NOT a pen. Mini Rodrigues dived, before the incidental contact by Tim Howard, who had realized at the last second he was not going to reach the ball, therefore pulled up at the last possible moment! Their same player (MR) dived for the free kick only moments before the pen incident and even prior to that, what about the blatant handball by Ladyboy Torres, which not only should have resulted in a free kick to us, but also a mandatory 2nd yellow card!

At the end of the game, I was absolutely gutted (yet one more time) that we didn't take all three points, against what I believe to be one of the poorest rs teams for some 40 odd years. I believe in approx: 40 away games against the "Big Three", plus the redshite, we have never won?!?!? At half time, I was fuming, absolutely boiling, with such an inept performance, by so called professional players, wearing the Royal Blue Jersey, however some 6 or 7 minutes later, I was dreaming of our 'double' over the darkside! I was screaming for us to get a third goal, as surely we would need it at some stage, the rest is history, the rs got their lucky break with the pen, we sat back, hence the inevitable draw. If you would have offered me a draw at half time, I probably would have took it, but I've always been a fighter, so I would have refused it, rolled up my sleeves & sang "The Royal Blue Mersey" song, followed by "And if ya know yer History"........then kicked some pinkies ass on the pitch!

Overall, still gutted, snatching a draw from the jaws of victory. Pienaar can fuck off to Spurs, Chelsea, or Inter, although he might wanna call his old mate Joleon at Man Shitty and ask how his football career is going? Apparently, Peanuts has turned down Chelsea (Can't agree personal terms) Me bitter.....never?? COYB!!

Mike Rourke
152 Posted 17/01/2011 at 11:35:08

If only Baines had done that John Terry star-jump thingy and took one in the knackers for the team...if only, if only!

Pat Kennedy
153 Posted 17/01/2011 at 11:28:14

Was sat in Main Stand at Anfield, yesterday in middle of a some family RS season ticket holders, so interesting to hear their reactions when we went 2-1 up. They were convinced we were going to win and couldn't see a way back.

After a dreadful first half where we were comprehensively outplayed, we had the most wonderful 20 minutes in the second half and had them rocking.

No arguments with their penalty, sometimes you just have to accept what is a straightforward decision and stop moaning. If Reina had done that on Arteta we'd have been screaming for a spot kick.

Overall, a game of mixed feelings, at half time I was hoping to just keep the score down and pray for a miracle, after 65 minutes I was looking for us to push on and go 3-1 up!

I think on balance a draw was a fair reflection of each sides domination - them 1st half, us 2nd half, but when you turn a game round from 0-1 to 2-1, you have the momentum and need to exploit it to the full.

I think at 2-1 Moyes got a little bit stuck and we let them come at us, instead of doing what had got us ahead.

A home win and away draw against the RS, you'd have taken that at the start of the season!

Gavin Ramejkis
154 Posted 17/01/2011 at 11:53:42

Pat, if it would have been Arteta clothes lined by Reina followed by a twin footed stamp we wouldn't have got it. In the last 73 years at Analfield we have had 1 penalty, yep 1, converted by Wayne Clarke in 1988, given the amount of cards dished out over the years don't you think that particular statistic stinks?

Have to agree about the first half though we were utter shite.

Peter Webster
155 Posted 17/01/2011 at 12:26:48

Very disappointed, I thought we were actually going to properly do 'em this time. Should know better really.
We looked toothless down the left with Peanuts out, Ossie is just too lightweight and left Baines exposed again and again. We were star struck in the first half, all that King Kenny bullshit must have got to them. Second half much better after a rocket at half time from Moyes.

Jamie Tulacz
156 Posted 17/01/2011 at 13:15:59

Didn't think it was a great standards, both teams looked like they deserved to be where they are in the league.

A little worried about the squad's depth again- without Pienaar and the Yak it looked pretty threadbare. We need to sell Pienaar asap so that we can get reinforcements in, as with 1 or 2 injuries there's not a lot there. Don't think players like Anichebe/Vaughan are realistic long-term solutions.

John Crook
157 Posted 17/01/2011 at 13:27:16

It was a definite penalty. The striker did play for it but every striker would in that situation. You cant blame Howard for that as a goalkeeper he had to make the challenge.

It's a pity we couldnt get goal number 3 when our tails were up. But hey they were missing their best player but we were missing Cahill, Saha, Pienaar, Jagielka (maybe even throw Yakubu into the equation or his eventual loanee replacement). Tim Cahill would've made the difference today in my opinion.

If we played them 38 times a season we would win 75% of them. On a positive note it's 4 from 6 and bragging rights and also it's pleasing that Beckford is now looking more confident in big games and taking chances. I do hope he gets an extended run of games now.

Antony Matthews
158 Posted 17/01/2011 at 13:37:31

Return of king Kenny my arse ! Three games and counting. His phone number if anyone wants it is 101010, thats won nothing won nothing won nothing.

Tony J Williams
159 Posted 17/01/2011 at 14:34:52

I am quite surprised that the Torres issue hasn't been mentioned more.

He had a kick at Distin in the first few minutes which the lino saw, as he told him to calm down. Straight red in the laws of the game.

The same with kicking Neville, should have been a red but he gets away with a yellow. A deliberate hand ball in the build up to their pen, was it given? No because the shithouse Dowd would have had to send Ladybiy off on the day "King" Kenny returns to Sky football.

And it was a pen.

Pete Gunby
160 Posted 17/01/2011 at 17:06:41

Blaming Howard for both goals is stupidity.

Anthony Lamb
161 Posted 17/01/2011 at 21:13:51

I am amazed at the people who are actually ASKING here what is the nature of Saha's latest injury? As usual it is another example of "take your pick" - it is a non-question, as the sooner this man is acknowledged as one of the greatest malingerers ever to be involved with the game the better. He is an utter and complete disgrace and the sooner he is shown the door at Everton the better for all concerned. In addition there is the usual diatribe against Leon Osman. Sure he has his faults as do all footballers and had he been blessed with greater physical strength and sharper and sustained pace he would have been a very top player. An example of his technical ability was the wonderful footwork he showed in setting up Beckford for his goal. Terrific skill in very tight circumstances. Not too sure I can remember the last time I saw everybodies beloved "peanuts" actually create such a goal opportunity in the box in similar circumstances. Sure osman has limitations but give the lad some credit when he displays such admirable and FRUITFUL skill. in addition is it not time that someone somewhere got to the bottom of Arteta's current poor form? For such a talented player his current and recent form is sad to behold. Perhaps it is rooted in something other than football? Whatever, it needs seriously to be addressed for he is danger of very soon being subjected to the same constant tirades experienced by Leon Osman.

Paul Gallagher
162 Posted 17/01/2011 at 22:22:20

If you want to blame anyone for the penalty then blame Howard. If he had just stood his ground, there was no way maxi would have scored because he was going away from goal. Another blooper that has cost us this season.

David Thomas
163 Posted 17/01/2011 at 22:26:41

"Anichebe, Osman (At fault for the needless freekick led to the pen), Bily, Vaughan, Neville, Feillani and Heitinga are all shit and need to be put up for sale in this window."

Please tell me the person who wrote the comment above is taking the piss. Anyone who thinks we should put Fellaini up for sale is insane. In my opinion he is at this moment the best player in the league in his position.

Roman Sidey
164 Posted 17/01/2011 at 22:50:21

David Lyon got it spot on. There were at least 3 handballs from Liverpool players throughout the match that didn't get pulled up, and one of them led to the play that won the penalty.
In my opinion, that penalty is 50-50. Sometimes it doesn't get given. Any 50-50 in front of the KOP is going the way of the Red Shite.

On the players - most of them did well except Anichebe, Osman and Vaughan.

Vic is shit. No other explanation is needed.
Osman, apart from the assist, which was great I must admit, everything he did in the game was completely terrible, and he is starting to look as bad as Hibbo.
Vaughan needs should have been sold before Yak. He isn't a good striker, and his Hollywood attitude to playing makes him a laughing stock as well as a liability. Bily or Gueye should have been in Osman's spot, but with Peinaar gone, I guess we'll have to get used to seeing Osman week in week out, scuffing everything we try to do. Having said that, I'm happy that Peanuts has finally been let go. To keep him would have been a really stupid move from Moyes.

Ian Smitham
165 Posted 17/01/2011 at 23:48:41

Tony @158 Not being funy but why was no action taken? It was right in front of the Assnt.

Antony @160 - Quite right

David @161
- Fella best player on the pitch and at what he does (when played in position) i really think he is THE best

Glen Partridge
166 Posted 18/01/2011 at 23:05:08

Can understand all the bad luck and good luck bouncing around the game but how on earth did the child Torres get away with kicking Distin scott free???

And where was all the EFC side of the Sky preview to the game??? The Sky producer must be a red!!!!!!

Thought we did well considering they were always going to improve on previous games where they showed what they really are all about ? lazy moaning, overpaid rabble with no passion, bottle or grit.

Jeremy Rishardson
167 Posted 19/01/2011 at 08:29:13

I sense a little extraction of urine with the title of this topic.

I have to say that, to me, Moyes made his point very well re draws at Anfield. It is quite unbelievable that two teams with such massive differences in players costs and salaries are often even on the football pitch of the more lucrative team. Good point well made in my opinion.

The fact that some of us, as Evertonians, choose to miss our managers point completely is a little disappointing. To then try and make a headline joke out it is a cheap shot and perplexing ? in my opinion. David Moyes is a football manager ? not a language professor or editor. For a foreigner I think his English is pretty good.

My finishing note brings us to the subject matter rather than the title. If you want to hear the best assessment and summary of the game can I suggest, rather ironically, listening to our manager's interview. The official website has it so it is easy to access. His honesty is shown throughout. His points being:

We never really got started in the first half;
Lucky to come in only 1-nil down at half time;
Players showed a great reaction after half time;
We could maybe have gone 3-1 up;
We were the better team in the second half;
We feel a bit disappointed we didn?t take all three points;
Bit disappointed with the penalty ? but it was a penalty;
Referee did OK but wasn?t perfect.

Paul Kennedy
168 Posted 19/01/2011 at 11:59:05

I wonder if Pienaar was in the right frame of mind to pick up his wages?

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