Mourinho mocks Martinez amid tug of war over Stones

, 21 July, 259comments  |  Jump to most recent

(Christian Hofer/Getty Images)
With rampant speculation fuelling the developing saga of Chelsea's pursuit of John Stones, Jose Mourinho has taken to baiting his opposite number in the media and attempting to trivialise Everton as a "smaller club".

In response to Martinez revealing his disappointment at Chelsea's conduct last Saturday, the Portuguese used the occasion of an interview with Sky Sports to suggest that the Toffees had not categorically told Chelsea that Stones is not for sale and hinted that his club would continue to raise their bid for the defender until the end of the transfer window.

In a press conference in Singapore earlier that day, Martinez had insisted that Stones was "an Everton player, full stop" and that he was not for sale. That claim was seemingly bolstered by a letter sent to Stamford Bridge a few days prior to their initial 20m offer that explained that Everton would not be entering any negotiations for the 21-year-old.

Mourinho denies this and has now mockingly suggested that the Catalan was refusing to acknowledge that the window was open and that clubs could bid for other players.

Our strategy for the Premier League is going to change next year, Mourinho said in typically sarcastic fashion that might betray more than a tinge of frustration at Everton's stance.

Next year we are going to make the first bid on the 1st of September. On the 1st of September we will do a bid for the season later. Because at this moment, until the 31st of August, it is closed.

"The market is closed. We are all in a strange world. We are all in a strange world. We think it is open but it is not open. It is closed. So on the 1st of September we are going to make a bid for the next season.

With talk in the press suggesting that Chelsea will return with a bid of between 32m and 34m for Stones, Mourinho acknowledged that the market for top-rated English talent was vastly inflated and blamed the high prices for the paucity of homegrown players at the top clubs, while also aiming a dig at Everton.

That is the market, he continued. And you only pay it if you want. If you dont want to pay it, dont pay. Its as simple as that. The market has no rules or limits from season to season. And not even the introduction of a Financial Fair Play rules is able to control the market.

The market is where it is and its up to the clubs to decide yes or no. For ourselves there are certain rules.

Its a good market. That is why smaller other clubs if they have interesting young English players they use that in the right way for them. I dont even criticise them.

They play the market for themselves. And if the big clubs dont want to go over certain limits, they have to make a decision. And that is maybe why none of the top clubs are not full of young English players. But that is the market, Mourinho concluded, perhaps hinting that there is a limit to what his club would be prepared to spend.

For their part, there has been no official comment from Everton regarding Stones since Martinez spelled out the club's position at the weekend. Multiple media outlets are pushing suggestions that "sources close" to the player claim that Stones is keen on a move to Chelsea but these assertions remain uncorroborated.


Reader Comments (259)

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John Raftery
1 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:31:24
Dear Jose - He's yours for £60m. Yours sincerely Bill.
Martin O'Hare
2 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:30:23
Pathetic, Chelsea have no history, just a small London club who have a billionaire benefactor

They’ll soon be back to their usual mediocrity when the money runs out.
Steve Durham
4 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:40:16
This is the one chance for BK to prove he has a pair to every Evertonian!

Either tell Jose to do one with a sly dig at our history compared to theirs thrown in for good measure. Or, if it seems Stones wants away, set the price at nothing less than £50m - no negotiation.
Oliver Molloy
5 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:35:18
It is always about Mourinho, for he is the special one!...but when he gets it wrong, he usually does it big time.

This latest mockery of our club is only making him look more of the spoilt prick most of us already know he is.
Don't sell Bill - please.

Jim Bennings
6 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:44:41

25 years ago your Johnny Come Lately Russian Husky club were playing at a dive of a stadium with a greyhound track circling the pitch, you had shit players, shit managers, no history and even now, you have to laugh when you hear Chelsea or Man City labelled as big clubs in Europe, neither of these two are even in the same stratosphere as the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich.

Money doesn’t make you a big club.
Nor does having the most pathetic plastic "yob snob" fans.

Michael Winstanley
7 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:28:02

This article contains all the quotes from the above, not The Guardian link.

Bob Hannigan
8 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:48:31
Hey Jose! That really works, taking a poke at us, how about £150 mil, minimum?

Otherwise, take your offer and put it where the sun don't shine.
Ernie Baywood
9 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:53:14
He relishes looking like a spoilt prick. In his mind the ends justify the means.

Many would say he's right.

Nigel Gregson
10 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:50:28
Dear Jose,

You are right, market is open and market demands £100M from phenomenal managers like you. It's open for a few more weeks. I've instructed our manager Bill to keep an eye by the fax machine.

Your's truly,

Phil Davies
11 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:52:55
I think Stones will be gone soon enough. Mourinho clearly wants him enough to start the mind games and our board has never been quite good at saying no to large amounts of money. I just hope the Sterling situation has shown our board we don't have to be pushed around and the big clubs will pay what you're asking for for English quality.
Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
12 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:58:11
The quotes above were an amalgamation of the ones on the Guardian and Echo sites; the similarity with the Telegraph's headline to ours is pure coincidence.
Chris Gould
13 Posted 21/07/2015 at 23:55:22
He's done his own legs. No chance we'll sell to them now. I personally never thought we'd sell Stones anyway. I think Mourinho already knows this.
Stuart Gray
14 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:02:03
I suggest we put in a £20m bid for Hazard then see how they react.
Michael Winstanley
15 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:01:11
No offence Lyndon, I couldn't find some of the quotes in The Guardian piece so I wanted to find the direct quote.
Lyndon Lloyd
16 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:08:32
No worries, none taken, Michael – just wanted to point that out to avoid confusion for others.
Chris Owens
18 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:16:47
Is the rule about 'tapping up' a player from another club no longer valid? If it is still in place, why aren't the football authorities warning Chelsea?
Matt Muzi
21 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:16:29
The big thing for me in all of this is Stones. Until he asks the board for a move, or his agent says he wants to go, Jose can keep bidding till the board decide to sell.

Therein lies the issue, bar Baines, our board doesn't have the best record for withstanding the attentions of other teams on our key players.

If this does go badly & Stones goes, if it isn't for a substantial amount then I think it could backfire on the club. That or he goes at the end of the window, with no time to get any replacements.

I hate to say it, but we need look no further than Castle Greyskull and the way they dealt with Raheem, as to how we should negotiate with Chelski.

Phil Davies
23 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:30:03
Chris, I believe 'tapping up' is a club speaking secretly to a player about a move behind another clubs back, this is merely Chelsea and Mourinho stating publicly they want Stones, It might not be morally right, but it's not illegal.
Chad Schofield
24 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:33:02
Chris #18, if football's governing body can so flagrantly and unashamedly let money help them turn a blind eye or fully endorse the unendorsable, I can't see anyone else stopping this.
Austin Smith
25 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:45:32
So at first it was "Everton haven't said no." After we release the response sent, now it's "open window, Chelsea have every right to bid you Everton fools."

NO means NO Jose, stop taking the Bill Cosby dating approach to transfers.

Colin Gee
26 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:36:04
Been in London today, picked up a copy of the London Evening Standard, their equivilent of the Liverpool Echo.
Headline on the back page is " Stones is Dreaming of a Move to Chelsea"
Defender hopeful that a deal can be done despite Everton's anger over bid.

A very misleading headline! as there are no quotes from John Stones himself saying this in the article at all...

All made up by Simon Johnson 'Football Correspondent in New York'

Apprently according to the Correspondant in New York,
the 21 year old is excited at the prospect of playing in the Champions League...
Stones will not try to force a move and is unlikely to hand in a transfer request but is hopeful the two clubs will reach an agreement...
Everton value him at £32 million...
Chelsea are prepered to send a player on loan to Everton to tempt them to do a deal...
Chelsea are prepared to treble his wages of £30 grand a week...

Everton and John Stones need to put a stop to this now. They both need to say he isn't going anywhere for any amount of money and if Chelsea persist in their pursuit of Stones that they will report them to the FA for illegally tapping up a player.

Otherwise It's going to be Joleon Lescott all over again.

James Stewart
27 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:43:08
The nastier it turns, the harder it is for them to get their man, so keep it up Jose. Chelsea have ruined countless wonderkids' careers; it would be a crying shame for Stones to join that lot.
Craig Harrison
28 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:50:50
My money is on Stones going to Man Utd for Rooney and Evans. With VG comments in the paper about Rooney only playing up front and the new strikers they are rumoured to be buying, plus Rooney playing in the big man's testimonial. And being told he is Captian but so is Carrick. Just seems strange.
Mike Childs
29 Posted 22/07/2015 at 00:48:13
Off the subject but Cambiasso has told Leicester he's not going to sign a contract. I know he's 34 but so isn't Barry and he is the type of player we need. Just a few years and then hopefully Ledson is ready to be our ACM.
Brian Porter
31 Posted 22/07/2015 at 01:04:27
Surely the tine has come for our board to stand up for our club, and now, very importantly, for our manager. Mourinho is totally out of order with his direct attack on Roberto Martinez in his latest spouting on the John Stones,saga.

I may not be Roberto's biggest fan, but he IS the manager of Everton FC and does not deserve to be publicly belittled by Mourinho in thus way. We should now tell them in no uncertain terms that Stones in not available to them, at any price, nor do we wish to do any business with the in the foreseeable future, as long as loud mouth Mourinho is in charge.

I will say this for Roberto Martinez, the man has charm and manners and would never stoop to such tactics and the board of Everton FC should now close ranks behind him and tell Chelsea to stuff their offers for Stones where the sun don't shine.

Nothing has angered me so much for a long time in the football world as this behaviour of Jose (The Mouth) Mourinho. Hopefully the backlash to his personal attack on Roberto will serve as the death knell to any move to his club, as we would look proper idiots if we just sit back and allow him to get away with this.

Come on John Stones, too. Let's hear you publicly back up what you say last week, that you're happy at Everton and want to stay and go on developing under the tutelage of Phil Jagielka.

My blood pressure is seriously rising at this blatant attack on Roberto's integrity. Integrity... something sadly lacking in Mourinho's personality. Chelsea should also sanction him for his public attack on another manager, not that they will, of course.

Ross Edwards
33 Posted 22/07/2015 at 01:09:58
Is it stupid and worth being crucified to say that Mourinho has accurately and perfectly summed up where we stand in modern football?

We are basically now the 'smaller other club' that he refers to. Obviously I can blame the board etc but I think also to blame are the fans who have essentially allowed this board to oversee our decline into irrelevance.

It's the people who staunchly defend this board with the mentality of staying put in the risk of becoming 'another Leeds' instead of willing a change of ownership.

My apologies Lyndon if this is off topic but we are now an irrelevance in modern football. Mourinho is absolutely spot on. And we can say how Chelsea have bought trophies and all that and they have no history which is correct to a certain extent, but look at the success they've had in the last decade compared to us.

10 years ago, Chelsea won their first PL title, their first for over 50 years. We finished 4th. Since then they have won everything there is to win. What have we done? Bottle a semi final and reach 1 Cup final. Well done us...

Yes, they 'bought' their success and do bend the rules which makes them hated, but they're successful. We have a reputation as a club that 'does things the right way', the nation's '2nd favourite team' if you like. We have nothing.

I feel we care too much about how we're perceived and how we want to do things 'the right way', rather than go for victory and success at all costs, whatever people may say.

Mourinho is right about us being'a smaller club'. We are. That's just where we are in the modern football food chain.

This saga will roll on. Let's just end it now shall we?

Andrew Presly
34 Posted 22/07/2015 at 01:28:54
What a depressing situation. He's got 4 years left so tell them, actually not them, Jose Mourinho personally, to fuck off.

Ant Dwyer
35 Posted 22/07/2015 at 01:35:51
Jose is off his head, he’s always going to play up to the media and he’s always going to ruffle a few feathers. Fact is currently his club are a big hitter in Europe and we are run like a corner shop, we have a special centre half the likes of which only come along every blue moon, and he wants him.

Jose has eyed up John Stones for ages now, having John Terry talk him up and keeping a constant eye on his progress. He’s probably realised that if he does not buy now the competition for his signature will become huge.

But we have a huge opportunity to refuse Chelsea and any other club who bid for any of our young stars and we can build for the future with these lads as the nucleus to a big future.

Unfortunately I think this will end up a pipe dream and Stonesy will be sold within the next 7-10 days.

The board will not hold strong in my opinion and too many greedy board members will want there hand out.

Mark Riding
36 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:18:43
He will leave. We will get fantastic money. It's 11 years since Rooney left. We haven't gone forward one bit.
Mark Andersson
37 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:10:03
I can not see anything wrong with what Maureen has said. This thing about the 1st September indicating that they will get Stones if not this season then next.

Really don't see why some on here are getting so het up about a situation that you have no control over. If he is sold, they pay the price, if he stays it won't be for long if the young man keeps on progressing.

Victor Yu
38 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:36:53
Again, don’t kid ourselves. We can talk about history and so on but in modern soccer terms it means nothing to the players.

Ask players in South America, Europe, Asia, and Africa and most of them will tell you Chelsea are a big club (and most of them would hardly heard of Everton). It is about what we have done in recent years, not 50 years ago.
Dave Hall
39 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:36:39
I have to say I sympathize with Mourinho's logic, if not his intentions. The window is open, and if Stones is "not for sale at any price" then our board and manager need to go ahead and say that instead of the half-to-three-quarter arsed responses given so far. Otherwise it just sounds like they're just trying to drive the price up and not committing to the young man, which will seal his future away from Goodison as much if not moreso than an improved offer from Chelsea.

If I had more faith that we had compelling new recruits along with 2 new center backs on which to spend the money (of course, assuming that the selling clubs wouldn't bleed us for every cent knowing we've got cash burning a hole in our pockets), I'd say this could end up being a great piece of business. But I don't have that faith, and so especially given Stones' contract situation I'd say that barring a bad injury there is absolutely nothing to lose by standing firm for another year.

Stones seems to understand from his statement and general attitude that the money will still be there a year from now, but he has a guaranteed first team place at Everton where he can grow and show what he's made of (and still make perfectly good money). Staying at least for the season makes good sense for both club and player, even if the bids continue to escalate.

Nicholas Ryan
40 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:43:42
Tell them, it's a straight swap for Eden Hazard ... and they've got 10 minutes to make their mind up!
Malc Kitchen
41 Posted 22/07/2015 at 02:32:56
Spot on comments guys, hate Mourinho now! As regards Cambiasso, no way! It's said we are getting Sergi Roberto from our fav club Barcelona, yeah!

Ayew and N’koulou next, then Ospina on deadline day! Job done, then tell Jose to jump in the Thames!
Carl Peters
42 Posted 22/07/2015 at 03:08:44
It's not looking to good to be honest. I think he will go and as much as I hate to say it, l think it will be in the next couple of weeks. They will just keep upping the bid until they get him.

Let's just hope we make them pay way over the odds for him, although I suppose it wouldn't be too bad if we actually see the money spent on the team rather than end up in Billy's arse pocket but I fear the latter.
Anto Byrne
43 Posted 22/07/2015 at 03:51:15
If Stones is made available then it won't be just Chelsea who will be interested. I'm sure Man Utd, Barcelona and Real would see this kid as a potential superstar.

If we keep him, his wages will have to double and he must be touted as the next Everton captain. Of course the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

He should stay put and cement a spot in the England team. How much would he be worth then?
Steve Moe
44 Posted 22/07/2015 at 04:09:44
The manager was hired to get Everton FC to the Champions League! If you sell Stones, it cannot happen!! I hate the mouth and his tactics, screw him. Stand up for RM, shite on Chelsea
Kieran Kinsella
45 Posted 22/07/2015 at 04:06:23
Bigger club: it's time we faced up to this. When I was younger "bigger club" was an intangible concept that was used to describe clubs that generally were around pre 1900, regularly attracted crowds of 30,000 plus, and had amassed at least half a dozen major trophies. Within this group of clubs (Newcastle, Sunderland, Aston Villa etc) you had really four clubs (Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Man Utd) who'd won more than the rest so we're bigger still... Oh and you had Spurs who the media lumped in with the aforementioned to make a Big Five.

These days BIG has nothing to do with history, pedigree or fan base. As used in the Sky TV vernacular it simply means "big commercial presence." As such, we are not a big club when compared with Chelsea in part because of the much maligned Kitbag deal. It sucks but that's what Mourinho, FSW etc mean when they make these disparaging remarks. Commercially, we're small fry.

Derek Thomas
46 Posted 22/07/2015 at 04:03:57
He's factually right, but actually so wrong. He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. I wish their game on 12 Sept. could be moved to the Monday night to pump up the it is it will be quite tasty which ever way things go.

It can go 2 ways...our stance is either a real 'No Sale'.

Or it's to ramp up the price. In that case Jose isn't making him any cheaper.

If it is a ramp up, we must / should have a figure we won't go below and they will have a figure they won't go above. If we must sell Bill, make them go all in at 50+Mill., no add ons. No, we'll knock some off for Lukaku.

Harsh? not too harsh Jose, as you say "The market is, where it is."

Paul Ward
47 Posted 22/07/2015 at 04:07:31
(Mark Ridding 35) Say's in 2 lines what is really important to this club. Who gives a toss about how rude Mourinho is or his tactics. We are all being consumed by these reports instead of demanding Kenwright do something about improving this shambles of a club we support. Stones will go, Everton will sell and in 10 years time our disgruntled fans will say "we were a big club once".
Mikhail Ridhuan
48 Posted 22/07/2015 at 05:29:16
The one good thing coming out of this whole darned mess so far has been Stones's silence, and more importantly his agent's. I don't trust all those headlines from disreputable newspapers with no direct quotes and plenty of reckless speculation.

Sure, according to The Guardian, Stones is keen on the move, but who wouldn't be, tripling your wages and playing in the Champions League is a no-brainer. But I suspect, if Stones doesn't get his move, he wouldn't make such a fuss about it, and go about his business professionally.

We have to accept that football is a dog-eat-dog world. No professional club has a right to live in its own oasis in peaceful surroundings; sharks will always come sniffing around. Even Bayern Munich have to contend with players wanting to leave. Money always talks, folks. All we can ever do is negotiate.

Fran Mitchell
49 Posted 22/07/2015 at 05:42:59
What if we just ignored them?

Seriously. They make their bid and we simply give zero answer, and thus zero credibility. They can keep making noises, keep paying journalists to make up stories etc.

In the meanwhile, we ignore them. Do our business and prepare for the season.

If a journalist asks anyone, have a club order players and co to say 'what are you talking about?'

Mourinho is essentially a troll. The best way to deal with trolls is not give them attention.

Andy Meighan
50 Posted 22/07/2015 at 06:14:37
Once the £30 million plus bid comes in, he goes. I'm more worried about what shite Martinez would buy with his share of it.

Let's face it, his record in the transfer market hardly fills you with excitement, does it?

It's obvious and I know they were only pre-season friendlies, fitness excercises etc but even at this early stage against Premier League opposition we are screaming out for a creative midfielder and a striker to play alongside Lukaku.

Guy Hastings
52 Posted 22/07/2015 at 06:16:41
Craig 27 - that wouldn't surprise me in the least.
James Marshall
53 Posted 22/07/2015 at 05:38:51
Everyone has fallen headlong into the trap set by Mourinho.

He's been doing this for years. Managers have been doing this for years. It's nothing new, it's just highlighted more these days due to the mass media hysteria being so much more 'in your face'.

Players have been tapped up and 'unsettled' by opposition clubs since the day transfers came into being. In a way I applaud him for his attitude - he reminds me of Brian Clough in the way he creates an 'us against them' mentality at his clubs.

Big club/small club, really? Who gives a shit? My Dad's bigger than your Dad.

Everton are not one of the bigger clubs in World football anymore, and that's a fact. So what? The waiter said it as well, and are they right? Yes, they are right. Chelsea are a World name with pots of money, Everton are not = they're a big club by today's standards and we're not. Move on. Do you think that people who are passionate about say, Scunthorpe Utd give a shit about being viewed as a big club? Are they any less passionate about the team they love & support?

Big club, my arse. I support Everton because I love Everton, not because they're the biggest and best club out there. Real supporters don't follow their club for glory, they follow them for the love of it. Nothing more. With this in mind, Mourinho's comments mean nothing.

I'd also like to point out that the Lukaku deal probably has certain legal aspects to it which mean any other deal can have no dependency on it at all. And the deal is highly likely to not be able to be changed or interfered with by either party at any point in the future. This is real life, not a computer game.

On the Stones issue, I would suggest (again) that selling him at any price at this point would be footballing suicide. We need one more centre half as it is, so selling him would leave us with one first-team centre-half at the club on the eve of a Premier League season – if there are any sane minds in our boardroom, they will block this transfer at all costs because the money means nothing if you're not in the top division any more, and without a pair of settled, recognised centre-backs, you're screwed.

We need to be buying someone to back up Stones & Jagielka, not losing one of them. This is glaringly obvious but ignored by the massive media smokescreen when they talk about this transfer. John Stones is an integral part of our team that we cannot afford to lose, and have no financial reason to sell. On this basis alone, I have a feeling we won't sell him. Not this summer anyway....

Neil Gribbin
54 Posted 22/07/2015 at 06:51:14
I would tell Chelsea, in no uncertain terms, he is not signing for you lot, now or ever. Do one you Chelsea rent boys. I live down in the smoke now, and if there is one set of fans who do my head in it is this lot.
Rick Tarleton
55 Posted 22/07/2015 at 06:58:21
"If You Know Your History". Surely what Mourinho and Chelsea are doing is exactly what Everton in the time of Moores did to Blackburn, Blackpool etc. when we signed Vernon, Pickering, Newton, West, Ball, Walsh. It's what we do when we signed Stones from Barnsley. It's the economic inevitability of capitalism and football is capitalism, red in tooth and claw.

We cash in or we keep Stones, but don't let's get all moral about it.

Jason Davenport
56 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:05:10
Mourinho, who led Chelsea to last season's Premier League title, added they are only planning to sign players if others leave Stamford Bridge.

"At the moment we don't want players. It's simple," he said.


James Marshall
57 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:11:56
Of course he contradicts himself, they all do!

None of this should be a surprise to anyone, nor should we get all moral about it (as Rick says) because Everton act in a similar way to clubs lower down the scale.

It's all part & parcel of the beast called football.

(I would be gutted if we sold Stones by the way.)

Rick Tarleton
58 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:24:27
"Great fleas have lesser fleas upon their back to bite em
And lesser fleas have smaller fleas and so ad infinitum"

We used to be a great flea, now we're a lesser flea, and if Kenwright continues we'll soon be a smaller flea.

Joe Foster
59 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:31:29
If we end up selling Stones now after being insulted like that, we will look pretty pathetic.
Peter McCann
60 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:25:48
Total lack of class from Chelsea. 'My dad is bigger than your dad' syndrome. They have no history, just one man who has lots of pennies to throw round like a spoilt child.

He also needs to understand that if Man City decide that they are going to bid then, because their dad is bigger than Chelsea's dad, Chelsea as the smaller club will need to stand aside.

I would ask the board to conduct themselves with dignity and not get involved with this little chap.

Phil Sammon
61 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:42:04
The difference is, Rick, we conducted ourselves in the right way when we signed Stones from Barnsley. They were happy with the fee, we didn't go running to the press to try unsettle the lad.

Mourinho has every right to bid for our players. It's the way he's gone about it that's out of order.

Tom Evans
62 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:41:27
James (#52):

Very good comments, which I agree wholeheartedly.

Pre-1992, we were a big club by any standard. In this brave new Sky-induced feeding frenzy, we are but shark fodder.

Sam Hoare
63 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:55:14
Not too smart from Jose who is only adding higher numbers to any price by souring relations.

Arrogant as he is, the Premier League is a more colourful place for his tomfoolery.

Colin Glassar
64 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:53:49
Jose is acting like the spoilt little brat he is. "My daddy says I can have anything I want, boo hoo". This is just another sign of his frustration at not getting his own way.

I disagree with the view that we should get into a public slinging match with him as we know who will come out top. A wall of stony silence would be the perfect answer to his ranting and raving. In other words, just ignore him.

Colin Glassar
65 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:07:10
Oh, and Jose should remember that the last two managers who called us a smaller club, Benitez and Hughes, both ended up getting the sack.
Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 22/07/2015 at 07:41:15
If it's true that we sent Chelsea a letter, then silence might be the best policy. Let Jose keep contradicting. Take a line out of Goodfellas, asking him why he's still here, when he's been told to go fuck his mother!
Patrick Murphy
67 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:22:12
Of course, Everton – when they were rich enough – tried to sign the best players available to them, as any top club has done throughout the years; but to equate Everton FC of old to today's Chelsea is quite odd. With or without cash, Everton FC has retained its class; Chelsea never had any class to begin with... and no amount of money will alter that.
Paul Tran
68 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:23:07
They're entitled to make bids for our player. We're entitled to name a silly price to stitch up the poor little rich clubs. We're entitled to say he's not for sale. Not that outrageous or new, is it?

If we really were a big club, we'd stop all this moral high ground nonsense and come out on the front foot saying 'This is the price, pay up or shut up', or 'Not for sale at any price'. Other than that, say nothing.

Graham Darlington
69 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:18:16
Despite our manager's well known issues with the English language he seems to have a better grasp of it here than Mr Mourinho. It's simple really. It's called the transfer window not the tapping up window.
Patrick Murphy
70 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:35:21
I'm not sure that Everton or its supporters are taking the moral high ground. I see it more of a case of defending our name and not having it dragged through the gutter by other clubs via the media.

We may well be disadvantaged as far as money is concerned but we are not a small club and if we allow ourselves to be labelled as such then that is what we will become. Mind you, the current owners could show a little more ambition to stop this steady road to Sheffield Wednesday and Wolves territory.

James Marshall
71 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:38:25
I agree, we seem to take umbrage at any other club trying to (as we see it) take us for a ride. The whole 'We are Everton' thing I find a bit cringeworthy to be honest. What does that even mean?

It's like the RS and their cringeworthy gloating about being 'the best club in the world' or having 'the best fans in the world'. Do me a favour. It's a joke.

We're no different to anyone else, we're just blinded by blue-tinted specs all the time.

I live & breath Everton every day of my life, like the rest of you, but when all is said & done, so does the supporter of every other club on the planet. There's not really any difference other than our own self-created, self-perpetuated romantic notion of our football club.

How dare they put in a bid and try to buy one of our best players... DON'T THEY KNOW WHO WE ARE!?!?

Brent Stephens
72 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:42:13
Can't understand Roberto when he talks. Can't understand Mourinho when he talks. They must be a hoot talking to each other directly and trying to understand each other.
Denis Richardson
73 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:41:34
Once Chelsea hit a certain number, I'm sure the board will accept. I can't see them refusing a bid of around £35M; whether Chelsea will go that high is another matter.

Time for our scouts to review the entire Chelsea squad and see which young exciting players are there they will likely never use and add these to the deal. If Stones ends up going, then lets at least get a player or two as well as the cash. Note to scouts - please do NOT sign Victor Moses!

Main issue now is that this may turn into another Lescott saga which runs all the way to the end of August and so messing up the first 3 games of the season as everyone's distracted – no less the player himself. The board should come out now and state a firm "not for sale" or name a number.

Patrick Murphy
74 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:47:02
The newspapers must be getting their message across as I don't see too many people saying that Chelsea or any other club are not allowed to put bids in for any player at any club. However, the real issue is how that initial rejected bid was made public and how the media has been manipulated by the PR machine at Chelsea. I often think that there are a few Kopites who would give Everton more praise than some of our own supporters.
Eddie Dunn
75 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:34:03
Mourinho is obviously a complete ego maniac, but he also knows that Martinez is under huge pressure after a poor show last season, and little transfer activity in terms of incomers this summer. This signals to our "star" players that we are not serious about trying to make the top four or Europa League.

Stones must be thinking of the riches and glory of playing for Jose, who wouldn't? We need to make it clear that a bright future lies within EFC, and investment in 2 quality players would signal that.

If we sell, I doubt that Roberto would see much of the cash, and with Chelsea being clever operators, it would probably happen too late for us to get anyone decent in. All the aces are in Jose's hand, and the pressure is on Martinez and our board. Perhaps Roberto thinks it is best not to get any further into Jose's mind games, and silence is the best antidote.
Mourinho is a spoil brat, and will no doubt get louder and louder if it seems he won't get his man. Ignoring this bully is probably a good tactic, but I would rather we just told him that they couldn't afford him.

James Marshall
76 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:00:39
Patrick – I don't think it's a case of not giving Everton any praise. I see it more as a reality that Mourinho and any other manager or club is within their rights to bid for any player, and they are also within their rights to make that bid public. If the PR machine helps them, then of course they're going to do whatever it takes to get the player they want.

What's wrong with that?

Martinez is pissed off because he doesn't want to lose Stones any more than we do; that doesn't mean Mourinho has done anything that's against the rules. It's not a gentleman's game of cricket we're playing here!

Tony Draper
77 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:33:49
I have three observations and one comment to make here:

Firstly, Everton informed Chelsea by letter before their bid that John Stones was not for sale. It doesn't matter that Chelsea in the form of Mourinho wish to publicly say "But they didn't say this or that, so we can do what we like". They know the position.

Secondly, there has been no subsequent bid and consequently Everton have nothing new to decline or discuss. They know the position.

If Chelsea were to make another increased bid, then Everton would do very well to simply reissue the original letter. Just so that they know the position.

Finally, when Mourinho first arrived at Chelsea he was all smiles, funny remarks and not a target because he was new. By the January that season, he was frequently scowling, offhand and petulant. Then he left. So then, last season he returned and exactly the same pattern emerged. How long before he blows again?

Neil Pickering
78 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:04:29
Unfortunately it's all about the football food chain, and we are mid-table in it whilst Chelsea are top. We have done the same to clubs lower than us over the years, it's just how it works.

John Stones is potentially a world class centre-back and he won't fulfill that potential with us. Hard to admit that but it's true, so let's stop delaying the inevitable and put a price of £35 mil on him. If Chelsea want him, pay it or move on.

Class players like Stones who don't spout off to the press in situations like this you can't begrudge them their big move. It's players like that useless pudding Lukaku who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a big move that piss me off more.

Christy Ring
79 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:44:11
It's time for Kenwright to grow a pair of balls, and tell Mourinho to stick his offer where the sun don't shine. Then tell his billionaire friends on the board to put their hands in their pockets and stump up the cash, and put this club back where it belongs.

If he sells Stones now after Jose's jibe, what will that tell us about EFC?

Dean Adams
80 Posted 22/07/2015 at 08:44:38
Just send Chelsea a copy of The Laughing Policeman. No comments other than, repeat repeatedly!!
Andy Bone
81 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:11:01
I think if Mourinho had conducted himself better in this process then there wouldn't be such problem.

I personally get frustrated that as soon as we have a little gem on our hands the club will be hit with the likes of the Mail and Mirror trying to sell him for us. Clubs come in as they and the players know we cannot afford to build an instant team to challenge. One step forwards and two backwards.

My issue is, with the money we might get for him, how much is going to be spent on players, and what quality of player are we going to get to replace him? Finally, surely being awash with cash then puts the price up of the player.

At the end of the day, we know Chelsea can afford him, so we need to make a statement like we did with Baines. Publicly state he is going nowhere, we have 4 years left on the contract, or name an astonishing price in the press if Stones says he would like to go.

Where is BK when you need him to speak up?

Anthony Jones
82 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:11:41
This guy is a UK media darling. They love him because he creates tension, and he loves them because they put him on a pedastal. The mainstream media would like to see Stones at Chelsea. More English players at the Sky Elite boosts the moral of English football fans and provides hope that Circus England might win the World Cup again.

Mourinho is a cut throat winner. His teams would do anything to win, and it seems that he would sink to any level to push a player for a transfer. However, without the sycophantic UK media, his tactics would be less useful. The Spanish press were not so supprtive of the Chosen One's ego, and so he left Spain when he easily could have stayed for the long term. I would appreciate if they would beg him to return.

Steve Cotton
83 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:11:50
I imaging that Boys Pen Bill will be secretly hoping this deal comes off because, if it doesn't, he has to find serious money from his own pocket for a CD an AM and possibly a second striker.

If this deal comes off, he can allow RM to get these in and still keep his money down the couch.

Thomas Surgenor
84 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:23:31
I say if push comes to shove, we offer him to Barça!They were interested last year, so why not?

That would keep us in their good graces and we might be able to get some more La Masia players on permanent deals as a sweetener.

Stones is fantastic and would be really disappointed to see him go. We need to try our best to keep him or make sure that any deal for him to go is in our best interest and truly a 'deal of the century' (unlike the Rooney deal).

James Byrne
85 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:13:08
The thing is everyone is for sale so forget all the romance bollox about how John Stones might love the club etc.

The key question here, is Everton a big club or a small club? If we end up selling to Chelsea for anything less than £40M then we are a small club.

A big club would either fuck Chelsea off or set a minimum figure to the football world of circa £60M. A lot of people have already mentioned that if Side-Show Bob left Chelsea for £50M to PSG then Stones is worth at least the same or IMO a lot more.

This time next year, John Stones could be worth £100M? Let's think like a big club for a change at look at the bigger picture.

Tom Dodds
86 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:16:25
£50M now,less 25% (to Barnsley)= £40M.

Price next year? You could not even imagine given the absolute vertical rise in sky money. If given he fulfills his premise, ie, England captain, mnaturity, mind-blowing confidence fully potentialised... = £100M+++?!?!?

So we sell now for £50M?? ...Shite!

It's the same money in retrospect as the Rooney money of old. The canny bastard, Mourhino knows this, just like Alex Ferguson did yesteryear with Rooney. In fact we may see the same historical theatrical performance resurrected from the skint weeping bell-whiff yet again sometime soon.

Dave Abrahams
87 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:39:10
Tony (76), why did Everton send Clelsea a letter informing them that Stones wasn't for sale BEFORE Chelsea had made an offer for the player?
Steve Cotton
88 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:44:09
Dave (#86) – perhaps it was a cunning plan??
Charles Cook
89 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:46:55
I’m guessing the letter preceded a bid because there would often be dialogue before a concrete bid is made?

Denis Richardson
90 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:50:37
Dave 86 - I was wondering the exact same thing. It seems odd for a club to inform another club that a player is not for sale before that other club had even made a bid.

If Everton sent this same letter to all the other Sky 4 then I could understand it (only a bit) more. But if only to Chelsea then that's almost like saying they should put a big bid in for him.

Having looked at Chelsea's squad, I'd do a straight swap of Stones for Remy, Salah and Zouma. Striker, AM and CB. Transfer-wise they are probably around £35m in total, only issue would be wages and if the players wanted to come. I think Chelsea would happily get rid of all three.

Ray Roche
91 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:35:47
Rick Tarleton @54

The difference now to those days is that there were no unscrupulous agents running from club to club to get the best pay packet, there were no clowns like Mourinho trotting to the press, deals were done chairman to chairman and clubs owned the players registration. Consequently there were no Bosman deals.

If a player wanted to move, he asked for a transfer. If a club wanted to buy a player, they asked the club. If the club wanted to sell, then they did at an agreed price.

What we have now is a circus with Mourhino as the Ringmaster.

Gregory Kelly
92 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:56:48
It may be inevitable, it may be 'the way football is', but it is depressing. I was / am looking forward to watching Stones develop in an Everton shirt. He is one of the few class players we have. It would be a real blow against the moneyed moguls if we could say NO. What a much-needed lift it would give us all.
Mark Tanton
93 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:09:36
I think a lot of people are getting hot under the collar here, when the game is so obviously up already. Everton doth protest too much. The club is driving a hard bargain, we're actually fairly good at it. See Fellaini. Once we get to £30M he's off, and rightly so too. We'd be stupid to turn it down.

With reference to Rooney, how can anyone begrudge him a fulfilling career, massive bank balance, creaking medal cabinet and years of playing for a gigantic football phenomenon? I don't get that.

Dave Pritchard
94 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:05:20
This is all ifs and buts. None of us really know what Everton have said to Chelsea or what Stones thinks etc. It is all a media circus and although it inevitably leads to lots of talk for Sky, The Mail and so on until something actually happens, and even when it does, we won't really ever know the full details of how it panned out.
Ray Roche
95 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:16:09
Mark, £30M is too low. We have to give Barnsley a percentage and this time next year or in a couple of years time, Stones will be worth considerably more, which is why Chelsea what him so much now.

Everton should not need to have to sell Stones. We should have sufficient Sky money etc to not warrant the sale of our best players. We also need another CB, we'd be in shit street if we have to scout two new players.

Tony Draper
97 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:30:17
Dave @86;

An enquiry from any club regarding availability in principle wouldn't require any fee to be disclosed.

Mike Gwyer
98 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:52:02

Reading between the lines I have to say that this Stones transfer will happen; however, it will be on our terms and the fee is going to be substantial.

West Ham's bid for Mirallas has been killed. Totally dead. West Ham have been told he's not for sale and to basically fuck off. They bid twice, the first being £6M and the second bid was obviously higher. Everton are not in any way interested, end of. It would seem that "Everton will gladly run his contract to the full 2 years then let him go on a Bosman". My source: Do some research and you will see that Everton are playing total hardball as far as Mirallas is concerned.

Now Stones, a total class player, probably world class player and he's English. He's got a transfer fee of £34M to £40M sitting on his head, well, this really is something for BK to get his teeth into.

Maureen latest comments regarding Everton being a "small club" have probably added a few million to the fee but you can see that Chelski want the boy and they have got a chairman who will pay the price.

James Marshall
99 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:29:53
Why is £30M too low? Why is everyone on here an expert on player valuations and the economics of football? It amazes me how you all know so much about the market!
Ray Roche
100 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:38:27
James, I imagine we know as much as you. Doesn't stop you making comments about different topics (some of which I agree with).

Stones's valuation, as Mourinho says, is market driven. Other players go for a certain fee so we can see a similar amount for what we regard as a better player.

Phil Rodgers
101 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:35:46
Sorry to be negative but I can't see a scenario where we finish in the top ten this season. Our squad is a total mess: there is a real lack of central defenders and forwards and far too many central midfielders. We needed a clear out but the only players linked with moves away are the ones we need to keep.

We also don't appear to be linked with anyone at the moment. I'm very concerned.

Raymond Fox
103 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:26:36
To repeat what I said elsewhere, it depends what Stones wants to do. If he does, what do the club do then?

I would suggest its best to sell, also as someone has already said Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal are very likely to get involved for him, we could get silly money for him. Don't get me wrong: I don't want us to sell him... but, if he does want to leave, we have a problem.

As far as financial muscle is concerned, we are now a 'smaller club' unfortunately. Support-wise we are 8th best supported club in the Premier League with Man Utd by far the best.

Jamie Barlow
104 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:37:16
The board and Martinez need to ask Stones whether he wants to go first of all. If he does, get as much as we can for him while we search for a replacement. If he doesn't, just keep quiet. Don't even reply to Chelsea's bids. Just ignore them. It would drive Mourinho mental.

At the end of the day, if Stones wants to go, we have to let him go. It's pointless trying to keep a player at a club he doesn't want to be at these days. There's only one loser...

All down to you, John.

Bill Farmer
105 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:54:38
The 'big club/smaller club' debate goes back to the insults that Benitez liked to heap upon us from over the park. I have to say I've never quite understood the basis on which judgements on this matter are formed.

One look at the history books will show that clubs like Everton and, say, Aston Villa, were there at the beginning, won a great many honours and, given the odd season or two, have remained in the top division playing in front of generally good crowds.

However, in the Premier League era, much has changed. No honours, poor directors, lacking a money supply from ego massaging owners and, for whatever reason, total failure to attract one.

In the meantime, a half-dozen clubs have fared better. Man Utd (in spite of a somewhat dubious ownership model) have continued to garner the pots whilst Arsenal have always been 'there or thereabouts' and Liverpool, due to their huge global following and massive Sky bias and propaganda have somehow managed to 'hang in there'.

Very much the new kids on the block, Chelsea and Man City have re-drawn the map by virtue of funders whose wealth knows no bounds. Brash, arrogant (particularly the former club), they trawl the world for the top talents and, because of the rewards they can offer, EXPECT the very best of British players to queue up to join them. And they do.

In the last 12 hours, the CEO of the Premier League has been bragging about what a prefect model he has developed. The nearest thing to a money-tree in the history of sport. No regard for the concept of fairness, good governance or the national interest to have a successful England team. And Financial Fair Play, don't make me laugh!

In the context of all this, Everton just cannot be seen as one of Sky/Scudamore's BIG CLUBS. We just lack the money, owners' tenacity and know-how. Just like Stoke, Newcastle, Southampton et al, we are there to make up the numbers and the likes of the objectionable Mourhino will delight in telling us so.

We, as mere devotees of our club, can do nothing to change those perceptions or shut his egotistical trap. But, for all that, WE know, just know, that EVERTON will ALWAYS be a BIG club.

Isn't that all that matters?

Peter Morris
106 Posted 22/07/2015 at 09:54:04
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this as English isn't your first language, but there is a great deal of difference between being 'Big' and being 'Rich'. Your club, my friend, is very much the latter and not the former.

Moving on to the Stones saga, Steve Bremmer in The Guardian today claims that Stones is 'keen on the move if a fee can be agreed'... he doesn't substantiate his assertion however. It's now up to the club and Stonesy to put this one to bed either way.

Phil Sammon
107 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:45:58
£30M is too low, James Marshall, simply because we can get a lot more than that. Chelsea have deep pockets and fritter away millions on signings that hardly graze the first team.

We have no need to sell. He will be worth more this time next year. He's not the sort of lad who will throw a strop.

It makes financial and footballing sense for the club and the player for John Stones to stay at Everton for at least another year or two.

Brin Williams
108 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:55:26
JB @ 103 - Of course that is the right way to approach the problem and fully explaining to Stones the consequences of a decision to leave - given that he will be lower in the pecking order than he would with Everton.

Short term he will earn more there but the way he is progressing here he has the world at his feet. He needs a couple of years to fulfill his potential and establish himself not only on the Everton/England stage but on the world stage as well.

He will have a far better opportunity to do all that at Everton where he will become a legend.

BUT first things first – ask the player...

Jim Potter
109 Posted 22/07/2015 at 10:36:22
If he's not actively pushing for a transfer, then keep him. His value will only go up. Massively.

If he is pushing for it (and I doubt he's that kind of guy), then we simply have to look at what these moneyed clubs are willing to pay for young English talent.

£49 million for Sterling. That to me is the benchmark. I would be gutted if he went for anything less than £40 million. He's 21 and has years ahead. Make them pay through the nose.

Roberto has to show his cajones to José (and to Kenwright) and say "We will not sell for a penny less than £X mil". No compromise.

We still need a central defender as it stands – never mind two if he goes.

Where is the much vaunted playmaker from abroad? The Arsenal game showed how devoid of ideas we are. It was painful to watch.

Kone is a waste of space, so we need another striker. He only dyes his hair so that people know he's on the pitch.

If McCarthy and Mirallas are indeed wanting out, then Martinez has an awful lot of work to do in a short time.

It's all rather depressing. Normally I feel optimistic at this time of year.

Still, Southampton amazingly pulled it out of the fire last season after a seismic amount of turmoil – perhaps we will....? Maybe Liverpool will offer £15M for Kone; £20M for McGeady; er... maybe not.

Perhaps it's best to go to a soundproofed darkened room until the transfer window is closed; then emerge to find out where we stand. I can't stand the uncertainty and gloom.

Please, Blues – give me something to smile about!

Joe Bibb
110 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:02:34
If Everton are a small club with 9 English Championships under their belt, then what are Chelsea with 4?
Jay Woods
111 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:05:00
Martin O'Hare #2...

"Chelsea have no history"... Much as I am outraged at them, statements like yours are just parroting Kopite nonsense. I think a European Cup win and four Premier League Championship wins in the past decade IS history, never mind the Cup Winners Cup wins (among other successes) they enjoyed before all the money from Russia.

The bottom line here is Chelsea are trying to sign a guy who will be worth at least £50M in coming seasons for a bargain price now. That's where the focus of our concern should be at – along with the state our club is in.

Brian Harrison
112 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:02:17
I am sure that Stones and Everton have had a discussion about this offer. Maybe that's why there hasn't been the "not for sale at any price" that Mourinho asked for.

Now if (and I say 'if') Stones has indicated he would like to sign for Chelsea, then all we can do is get the most we can and identify where we spend the money.

Paul Norman
114 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:27:53
So here's what should happen (okay, what I want to happen really!). Ignore Jose; sign the quality No 10, the central defender, and the decent striker that we need; break the wage structure for Stones and McCarthy (and match it for Barkley and Lukaku if we need to), say £100k a week. If they sign, great, job done. If they won't sign, name a suitably eye-watering price and don't let them go for any less.

It's easy running a football club!

Steve Cotton
115 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:29:22
Surely this is a no brainer in the current financial climate for Mr Abramovich. He has £4 billion in the bank earning 0.5% with TSB.

So he buys John Stones for 30 million now pays his wages for 2 years then sells him to Real Madrid for £55 million.

He makes £10 million profit after JS's wages taken out and has him services for 2 years. Surely better use of the money in the bank.

And while he's at it why not buy 10 great youngsters from around the world for small fees (because he has it in his back pocket) then loan them out for 3 years to help develop them (huge laon fees and don't have to pay wages... simples) then sell them for a fortune after 3 years, à la Lukaku.

Or leave it in a TSB top notch long-term saver account........

Brent Stephens
116 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:33:41
James (#98), "Why is £30M too low? Why is everyone on here an expert on player valuations and the economics of football? It amazes me how you all know so much about the market!"

James, I might misunderstand your point but Stones hasn't been sold for £30M as we've rejected the offer – so the market has already operated.

If a higher offer comes and we accept or reject, likewise that's the market in operation.

Errol Stafford
117 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:31:44
Surely one of the main traits of a big club is the size of its away following, the hardcore fans. Everton seem to always sell out their away allocation, and travel in huge numbers. And that is after over 20 years without success. If we ever do become successful again, the Chelsea loving media will be in no doubt of what a truly big club is.

The media's obsession with the Sky 4 or 5 baffles me – surely to have 'the best league in the world', having 8 or 10 'Big' clubs is greater proof of such a claim. Should they not be promoting us, Villa, Newcastle as equally big clubs (just poorer and not as successful at this time in history), rather than talking such clubs down and trying to sell off their best players?

Tony Abrahams
119 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:38:33
I also think that Chelsea are the only English club to win every major European honour.

Money talks, but it doesn't give you class, style or dignity, not that there is much of that left in football, and on another note we have got another hamstring injury!

Trevor Peers
121 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:02:46
The next excuse for the non activity in the transfer market will be, we can't buy anyone until we get the Stones money, I wouldn't put anything past Kenwright.

All our business will be done on transfer deadline day.

Liam Reilly
122 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:06:04
Big is based on wealth, trophies and branding and so the truth hurts.

We are a big club in respect of 85 other clubs in the English League but not in comparison to the riches of the top 6.

We were Big in the 70s and 80s based on the same attributes as above and no one complained then; but we're paupers now in comparison and we've been left behind. Sad but true.

Alan Thompson
123 Posted 22/07/2015 at 11:41:02
Some years ago on another site in response to someone who stated that Everton should aim at finishing 10th, I stated that "mediocrity" was his aim and that, if you aim at winning the league and just miss, you qualify for European competition; aim for 10th and just miss... you are in a relegation battle.

Also, when Kenwright was interviewed when he was trying to form a consortium to buy Everton for £50M (eventually £25M) from Peter Johnson, he stated that he could have had Everton several years earlier for £5M and it told me he did not have the business acumen or foresight to take Everton forward. In this regard, my opinion has not changed.

In reading the views on the Stones saga, I would say that Everton need to show that it can play hardball, business-wise, with any so called "big clubs". To do this we should, quite publicly, tell Chelsea that the price for Stones is £50M cash plus the outstanding debt from the Lukaku fee and player "X", preferably a central defender who can play alongside Jagielka until he retires, Browning or Galloway are ready, or we sign another central defender.

Obviously, this would not be one of their big-name first-team players but the deal would include Chelsea making up the difference between what they pay him and we agree with the player.

Meanwhile, Kenwright & Martinez tell Stones that he should agree terms with Chelsea and ask for 10% of the transfer fee while Everton increase his wage, if he stays, by say, £10k a week. And make their response public or even make them do it.

Will it end the matter? Possibly not but it is a statement of intent and on our terms.

Linda Morrison
125 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:18:55
With regard to Stones, it now seems to be that he is keen on a move. Here is my humble opinion to sort this out.

Martinez needs to ask Stones the question: "Do you want to move to Chelsea, yes or no?" If he says No, then that is that; if he says Yes, give Stones a piece of paper to write his transfer request on and let bighead know the asking price is now £40 million.

Start to source an established defender from somewhere. Stones came from Barnsley he was Moyes's last but so getting someone to join should not be impossible; however, we are very short of defenders at present. Remember, Stones is still learning but, if he wants to go, let him go.

Everton at best, like most of the other clubs, have a chance of winning a cup and that is about it. As fans, we don't count for much and I am as sick of all this as I am the Labour Party at present!

We are not a big club in terms of trophies and are unlikely to win the Premier League any time soon so let's get this over one way or another.

Jack Cross
126 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:10:42
The problem with Blues fans is we always harp on about our past history. When we should be thinking of the present, and the near future. It's pretty clear to me, we need to buy a Striker, CM, Goalie, but as we don't seem to be connected with any new players; we're either waiting for deadline bargains or we simply don't have the funds. We would all, if we were in a better position financially, love to hold on to players like Stones. But unfortunately we can't think to far ahead.

I'm sure we have players in mind to buy, but not the money to do so. If it means sacrificing Stones, I'd say sell him.

I have turned around my original thoughts of keeping him because I realised my heart was ruling my head. We have to live for today, and not who we might be in the future. Sad as an Evertonian, but the truth.

Mike Keating
127 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:07:07
Ray @90

Spot on – there is a world of difference between the old First Division and the money fuelled Merry-go-round that allows foreign billionaires to pluck clubs from obscurity and transform them through a distorted market and media manipulation.

As I understand it, Old Man Moores did not bankroll Everton as Abramovich does at Chelsea or the Mansour family at Man City, he loaned the club the money and it had to be repaid. This may have given Everton the edge over some clubs in the market but the top flight was not characterised by the obscene distortions in finances we see today and, as you say, players were not unsettled by orchestrated press campaigns on behalf of managers howling outside the sweetshop because it's closed.

Unfortunately Maureen seems to be getting the reaction he's looking for – just look at the response on here!

Peter Barry
128 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:34:11
I think that – no matter how we feel personally about Everton and what our 'History' is – we are yesterday's 'big club'... not today's... and we have been left financially behind, not only by the Sky 4 but by many other Premier League clubs too.

There are many reasons for this but primarily the buck stops with BK and his useless Board of Directors.

Duncan McDine
129 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:28:31
This is normal for any manager at a so called 'bigger' club... it's basically testing John Stones's character.

I was lucky enough to meet John at the Swindon friendly (he and Garbutt were watching the game together near me). I only had a brief chat with him, but thought he was a very down-to-earth, polite fella (as footballers go!). The fact that he's a nice bloke however, doesn't mean that he's an Evertonian for life (hard to imagine for us fans obviously). He's a Yorkshire lad with great talent and a level head, no Everton connection till we snapped him up, so why would he turn down a chance to step up another level?

I certainly don't expect him to put Everton before his career as a footballer. But from looking at previous big transfers of our young players, I'd suspect that at least another season or two with us would help him get to that next level (Champions League / England first choice).

If we look at those big money transfers of the recent past, it's only the Rooney deal where we feel hard-done-by. In the last 20 odd years, the likes of Michael Ball, Barmby, Big Dunc, Franny Jeffers, Arteta, Rodwell, Lescott have all been sold at seemingly the right time for good/great money, and despite feeling angry at most of those transfers at the time, the club were right to sell them.

As it stands, John Stones hasn't pushed for a transfer but, if he does (and I wouldn't blame him), I don't think Blue Bill will have his pants pulled down as he did with Rooney. £35M or so would probably end up looking like a very good bit of business if we look back in a few years.

Duncan McDine
132 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:51:23
One other thing I forgot to mention is that our business model is built around profiting from our young talent... their ability while at the club, and of course their sale value.

I would argue that we may have missed the boat in terms of sale value of both Barkley and Coleman. This time last year, they would have been worth a fair bit more than they are now... of course this will change if their form (especially Ross's) improves this season.

Chris Hutcheon
133 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:51:47
Of course the player will want to go to Chelsea, why wouldn't he? Stacks of money, Champions League football, and he'll get to stroll around with the ball looking amazing in the bulk of Premier League matches.

I would never begrudge him that, however, does he feel the need to go right now? Who knows, if he doesn't publicly agitate for a move, then we hold all of the aces.

As an aside, Jose's schtick got old ages ago, he's a parody of himself now, his 'outspoken' behaviour is just tedious and a bit embarrassing. Good manager though.

Having said that, if he's so adamant that prices for 'interesting' English players are over-inflated, we should bid £3M for Gary Cahill as a Stones replacement.

Peter McHugh
134 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:57:45
Duncan (#128), good post... although I was aggrieved with Arteta and think he was sold on the cheap (despite him wanting to leave) because of pressure from our banks.
Michael Winstanley
135 Posted 22/07/2015 at 12:50:23
I see Jose is after a left back, could we not loan him Garbutt?
Duncan McDine
136 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:06:22
Peter 133, yeah Arteta is probably the one on my list that has proved a decent buy, but his performance for us had dropped quite badly during his last season or two. Funnily enough, he was the one I was least angry about at the time!
Marc Sansum
137 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:17:54
Unfortunately, until the club (and Mr Stones) come out and categorically state it's not happening, we can't second guess. It's obvious the club want to keep hold of him, but £30M+ is a lot of money.

Again, we've not heard from Stones himself; who knows what he is thinking. He's not a local lad, but he does appear to love the club.

If its true they are offering him triple his wages, AND a chance to play in the Champions League, then we'll struggle to convince him otherwise.

We've said we don't need to sell; however, I can see us only getting a few loans in till the end of the transfer window.

Phil Rodgers
138 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:20:33
Gary Cahill gobbing off now. Wanker.

I guess we should be thankful Stubbs still isn't at the club to 'advise' him like he did Rooney.

Brian Williams
139 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:26:39
I believe Stones has already said what he's able to. He can't come out and say "I'm not going anywhere" because the club "could" accept a bid and then give him no choice.

Martinez needs to come out and say (as suggested by Mourinho) John Stones is NOT for sale and no bids will be accepted for him, no bids at all......will he say that?

Kristian Boyce
140 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:27:29
Surprized that Cahill is trying to get Stones to come as his place is the one most likely going to be taken by him.
Dave Lynch
141 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:27:09
It's been said a million times: "This club will not move forward whilst BK is in charge."

When have you ever heard him talk about our future or plans for the future? He tried to sell us a cow shed in Kirkby and fucked up the Kings Dock. He has now gone quiet on WHP.

He never really convinced anyone these projects would/will become a reality; instead, he opines about the Boys Pen and the Golden Vision...

He is living in a time warp, you know the type: "I remember when you could leave your front door open, blah blah blah...

Tony Dove
142 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:31:50
It's not just the thought of losing Stones which is depressing but also the thought of Martinez spending the money, which would probably include the likes of Johnny Evans. If we get £30 million for him, I think David Moyes will be entitled to a large vote of thanks. Let's hope Barnsley are not on a silly percentage of any sale fee.

Scott Hamilton
143 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:36:53
In fairness to Mourinho he is one of the few Premier League managers that has been consistently complimentary of Everton.

I remember his comments following a game against us many years ago where he said "It was a special game against special opponents".

He was also instrumental in Nuno Valente joining Everton (presuming you see that as a positive...)

Simon Jones
144 Posted 22/07/2015 at 13:49:09
Jose is just doing his job; personally, I think he is pretty good at it. If he was our manager I would imagine we'd be singing his praises most of the time.

Anyway, £30M+ is good business; the kid is young and ambitious and it was likely a better funded club would come sniffing around him – reality in the money orientated Premier League. How about some re-investment in Dzeko from Man City?

Tony Marsh
145 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:04:21
Let's face it, Stones is going but, as for Chelsea being a big club, that is a joke. They are a small club with a rich owner; we are a big club with a poor owner. I don't know any big club, especially English clubs, who would send back half their allocation of Champions League semi-final tickets at the Nou Camp like Chelsea did a few seasons back.

Mickey Mouse club with shitbag fans, awful owner and Gobshite manager but owner has deep pockets. That's all they are.

Robert Pierpoint
146 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:18:16

Don't normally like John Cross and his pro-Arsenal and pro-London views, but this is spot on. Why would we accept anything below £40M for Stones?

He seems to look at our board through rose tinted glasses a little. We will see if they are really tough negotiators....

Tony Stanley
148 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:37:59
What we have here is the manager of a wealthy club baiting the manager of a big club.
Paul Saleh
149 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:39:37
Jose is very good in front of the TV saying Everton have not said he is for sale. So it is simple – On Sky Sports, get Martinez or Kenwright to say he is not for sale.

Or, if he is for sale, state what price you want and then see if Chelsea match it.

Mike Green
150 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:26:08
"Everyone has their price Jose, but in order for you to enter any negotiations regarding John Stones your entry fee to sit at the table is the £29M we paid you for Romelu Lukaku. Oh, and another £10M for the small club jibe...

ps: While you're looking for it, we'll be talking to anyone that'll listen, so don't spare the horses."

In all seriousness, we must have told Chelsea he's not for sale and we won't negotiate and this is the result – otherwise, it'd be all going on behind closed doors.

If this is the case, the best thing to do is do what we are doing and flatly ignore him. He's a child, he'll soon get bored of getting no reaction. We just need to keep an arm around Stones while he's at it.

Bill Farmer
151 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:38:40
I wonder why so many of us seem to think that it's a sin for any player to wish to move on from Everton? After all, the club has no compunction about 'letting people go' when it suits them and nobody of quality leaves without properly negotiated compensation being paid.

Rooney, Lescott and Arteta are just three who were in bad odour when they moved. Football is a short career by any standards and I, for one, don't begrudge them the chance to make what they can from the game. Particularly if we have previously attracted them away from other clubs by dangling the carrot!

Tony Marsh
152 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:51:59
Stones is as good as gone but let's bleed every last penny out of Chelsea. Stones is a rare commodity in English football and that is a footballing centre-half. We should accept no less than the Redshite got for the gremlin Sterling.

As for Chelsea being a big club, is this the same Chelsea who sent back half its Champions League semi-final tickets for the game at Barça a few seasons back? 1,400 returned from an allocation of 3,000. The season before, we took thousands of fans to Benifica in a dead rubber match...

Chelsea are a small club with a rich owner compared to Everton who are a big club with a skint owner and board. Still, let's not let wads of oil cash get in the way of history, eh, Jose...

Jim Adolf
153 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:56:00
Man City paid £49M for Sterling... Stones should cost more, as he is a more important player. £50M should be the starting point, period. (First time commenting! Hello from the USA!)
Mike Green
154 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:58:08
As Phil Rodgers and Kristian Boyce point out, Cahill getting rolled out now – they really are going for the push. :D
Harold Matthews
155 Posted 22/07/2015 at 14:26:16
Terrible news re Deulofeu, stretching for a bad diagonal ball from Garbutt which he wasn't too pleased about. Earlier, Naismith had taken the ball off his toe in the middle of the pitch when he would have been through on goal and the lad needs team-mates of a higher level. If only we had a Cazorla, a Ramsey or an Ozil.

Stones or no Stones, we're going into the coming season with problems galore, not least the reverting back to the slow motion side and back stuff in our own half even when under no pressure, and the constant backing off instead of getting tight and closing down. All this coupled with continually losing possession does not fill me with hope for the months ahead. In fact, after last season's debacle, it fills me with anger. Let's hope it was a temporary blip caused by the heat and lack of fitness.

Rick Tarleton
156 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:01:35
You are right, Ray Roche (90), but the basic point remains: the clubs with the cash take the players they want off the clubs who want their cash. Whether agents or involved or not.

I met a couple of Blackburn supporters when I went to Uni in 64, they hated Everton and I mean hated them, much like many of our fans feel about Chelsea, Man Utd (Rooney), or Man City (Lescott and Rodwell) because, as they saw it, we "robbed" them of Vernon and Pickering.

Fans see their own club in a special way; directors, managers and players do not have the same rose-tinted view of their club. Players in particular see it as their place of employment and, if the next firm offers more money and more opportunity, they'll go. Agents didn't create the situation, they facilitate the process, at least that's how players see it.

Shane Corcoran
157 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:15:13
And we're off...

Chris Ritchie
158 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:14:58
If Stones does go (which I'm afraid is inevitable), who are the replacements? Then we'll need 2 center backs and a striker at minimum – who are the top players Everton will attract with no European football?

On another note, just watched the highlights of the Dec 2013 Arsenal game on YouTube – God, that Everton was exciting! Where'd that go? Please come back!

Stephen Brown
159 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:19:33
Whatever happens with John Stones it has become a huge distraction from RM repairing the damage of last season!

It's only two weeks until the season starts! Our problems with formation do not seem to have been resolved, we have two centre backs (possibly one if he's sold!) two other key players being linked with moves elsewhere and the players we are being linked with are underwhelming at best!

whilst I'm looking forward to Rooney's return cameo, it's also a distraction we could probably do without! I was hoping for our transfer business done early and then a clear focus by the players and management on starting the season well! I can't imagine anybody is focussed on this at the moment!

Jim Knightley
160 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:18:29
We can put a stop to this if we want, by taking Mourinho’s bait. We can simply say to Chelsea and the press that Stones is not available. But we are not, are we?

This is not something to be ignored, as Fran stated earlier. This is something which could derail the opening of the season. The speculation will not effect Chelski, because they do not need Stones now as badly as we do. He is our essential to us, and one of only two CBs at our club.

I’m frustrated by Martinez, because he needs to put an end to this or let Stones go. £34million would be a massive fee, and those who suggest otherwise are picking our select buys who have been inflated, without looking at the general market. The same market where Zouma, Varane and Alba went for less than the quoted fee for Stones. The same market where the likes of Hazard, Isco, Fabregas and Thiago have gone for less than, or around, £30M.

Stones has wonderful potential, but let’s not look at him with blinkered vision. He makes too many mistakes, and is far from the finished article, even if he may become the next Rio Ferdinand. The problems in his game may be less fundamental than those in Barkley, but plenty of Everton fans were willing to ignore his (or just didn’t realise) amidst the absurd figures quoted in stories linking him from a move away from Goodison last summer. In the vast majority of cases, a young player going for above £20M will have proved themselves consistently, or on the highest stage. There are certainly examples to the contrary, but Stones is nowhere near a £34M defender yet. If we are forced to sell him for that, then we have done very well.

But we should not sell him, not just because of his potential, but because we are utterly lacking at CB. That is Martinez’s fault, and this weakness should have been sorted now. It’s quite possible that Stones will turn around and tell us he wants to leave. Then what will we do? Rush through a buy for a CB? Stick in an utterly unproven Galloway, who Martinez claimed several months ago would play games at left back before being considered for CB? This situation is not good enough. Mourinho is asking like an arsehole, because that’s what he does.

As someone stated earlier, he is a troll, and he is a tactician. He is controlling things at the moment so we need to take some control back. If we are willing to sell him, then we need have 2 replacements lined up pronto. If we don’t have another CB through the doors by the end of the weekend, and this Stones speculation is still going/or we are negotiating for his sale, everyone involved should be ashamed. It’s the kind of failure that should lead to sacking.

Clubs have to deal with this – De Gea will leave United for free next summer. Ronaldo left them, just as Suarez left Liverpool and Sterling too. Arsenal have lost a host of players, whilst Spurs lost Modric and Bale. Southampton have lost too many over the past 2 seasons, and we have lost them too. We must be prepared for the loss of Stones, because it is looking increasingly possible. If we are not prepared to lose him this summer, for any price, then we should be making that explicit. This speculation is damaging to the club and will be damaging to our season if it is not sorted soon.

Chris Gould
161 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:35:58
I realise this is irrelevant, but if we were to get £30-odd million for Stones, I wish Moyes was still around to spend it. We will need 2 CBs. Moyes had a gift for getting defenders on the cheap whose value then soared. Lescott, Jagielka, Coleman, Stones, Garbutt, Baines. Could have added Oviedo to that list if it wasn't for his injuries.

It's not just about how much we get, it's about how we spend it.

Shane Corcoran
162 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:43:01
Jim #162, on your last paragraph, did Martinez not say that Stones was not for sale? Isn't that being explicit?
Patrick Murphy
164 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:50:21
That piece in the Independent is just a re-hash of the Echo's story today which in turn is a re-hash of the Newcastle Chronicle interview with BK in Newcastle last week where he mentions football in passing due to the article mainly relating to his theatre productions in Newcastle. The interview must have taken place sometime between the Stoke game in Asia and the game against Arsenal. In which case it isn't a direct response to Chelsea's bid for John Stones.
Gavin Johnson
165 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:51:13
Harold - what are your thoughts on all this Stones business? I was curious what you thought. Would you take the money and run? I know you’ve had your concerns when others have waxed lyrical about the kid.
Oliver Molloy
166 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:41:07

It already has derailed the club’s preparations for the season, of course it has. I agree with most of what you say but would disagree on the price. I don’t think £34 million is enough if we do sell, and if we sell, it should ONLY be because the player himself wants to go. Absolutely no point in having a player at the club who is not 100% "connected".

Now we have Chelsea players coming out and telling Stones what a great a club they are and Mourinho this and that. They are doing all they can to turn Stones head; no matter how level headed this young man might be, money changes most things!

If for no other reason other than our club badge, Bill Kenwright has to say something and soon.

Richard Reeves
167 Posted 22/07/2015 at 15:59:08
Something tells me at the end of all this Kenwright is going to smell of onions.
Denis Richardson
168 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:05:27
Duncan 137 - here’s a list of Everton players who’ve had an hamstring injury since Martinez & Co arrived;

Jagielka, Baines, Distin, Coleman, Pienaar, Mirallas, Naismith, Oviedo, Lukaku, McCarthy, Besic, Atsu, Deulofeu, Traore, McGeady, Garbutt

Even Martinez himself said in January that he’d revamped the medical department after we’d had 20 (TWENTY!) hamstring injuries in just the first 18 months of his management. Obviously that has yet to happen since we’ve had at least half-a-dozen more since then.

There is something very suspicious with all these injuries given they are happening to almost every player we have and not concentrated to a few. Granted hammys normally happen to sprinter types but you can hardly describe Naismith or McCarthy as ’sprinters’!

Denis Richardson
169 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:16:18
I didn't bother to include Gibson in the above list as he never plays anyway.
Tony Steele
170 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:18:08
We are the smaller club.
Craig Walker
171 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:21:05
Chris #163 – he could buy us another Per Krøldrup and do heading drills.

Denis #171 – good point but they're "soft tissue injuries" not "hamstring injuries".

Mike Powell
172 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:18:15
What’s annoying me most is that there is silence in the boardroom and it's really pissing me off. If we are going to sell him (and I hope we are not) then get as much money as we can and spend it wisely.

I don't trust Boys Pen Bill for one minute... it would be just like him to sell Stonsey on the last day off the transfer window and tell us it was to late to buy anyone. Now it is time for Kenwright to really show us what Everton means to him and tell the rent boys he is not for sale.

Tommy Webber
173 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:09:14
Panto season is never dead with Jose around and tbh, we wouldn’t have him any other way.

On a serious note, Chelsea are notorious for buying up young talent on the cheap and letting them rot on the bench til they make some kind of profit, however small. Stones should have a word with Lukaku and ask how he felt warming up the bench not so long ago.

We all know how this story would pan out for the young starlet if he went to Chelsea. If he values his career, he’ll stay at the club or at least wait til Man Utd, Real or Barcelona turn up with a serious offer.

James Stewart
174 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:32:30
163@ Your are spot on Chris. Moyes can be pulled up for a lot of things but his eye for a bargain was better than anyone. I would include his scouting team in that as well.
Steve Cotton
175 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:29:55
Where is Jamie Carragher telling Stonesy that he should stay and develop at Everton? He is always encouraging players to stay at Anfield.

And he is impartial you know...

Andy Whittingham
176 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:38:09
Maybe if our passing was more accurate the injuries would abate?
Bill Gall
177 Posted 22/07/2015 at 16:21:11
Since I started supporting Everton in the early '50s, there is no way I consider them a small club. What I do believe is we have a small chairman. Since he took over on the excuse of he is bringing financial stability to Everton, he has continued to be swayed by the more affluent clubs with their demands for our better young players usually with bids far below their value.

Instead of putting a firm stop to these bids, he remains silent knowing the bids will increase, that eventually lead to a sale, this to me is not backing his manager who is trying to build a young team.

In today's inflated markets, plus we require a backup centre-half, to sell Stones is being irresponsible. Bill Kenwright, if you want to represent yourself as chairman of Everton FC, start acting like the chairman of a large club,and show other teams, regardless of who they are "We are not a selling club" run by a selling chairman with no ambition.

Everton this season have one of the strongest squads they have had for a while, and with a couple of signings for critical areas, should be competing for European places. This will never happen if you continue selling off young players who are considered the future for Everton FC.

Jim Knightley
179 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:02:46
What did he say exactly then Shane, if you are in the know? I've not heard or read anything along the lines of 'Stones is not for sale for any price'. I've heard stuff along the lines of that Stones is an Everton player (obviously), and that Everton are not a selling club, but nothing equivocal, especially after Mourinho publically challenged us to do so. We could have stopped this then, but we haven't, which leads me to think that Stones is very much for sale.

Martinez will talk with the press pretty regularly. Is is that hard to say Stones will definitely not be leaving this summer? Cahill has commented about Stones today, and the stories will not stop until we stop them.

And I also have little faith in Martinez's ability to spot a bargain. Moyes made some bad buys, but I feel that his transfer record is one of the best in the history of this league, if not the best.

James Marshall
180 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:07:53
I don't see (and call me naive) how we can possibly sell him since Everton have already said that they sent a letter/fax/email/carrier pigeon to Chelsea telling them Stones is not for sale. If they then sell him they're going to look like the liars that Chelsea say they are, in that they claim there was no such letter/fax/email/carrier pigeon.

By selling Stones, Everton would be not only backing up the Chelsea theory that they lied, but also footballing suicide by selling one of only two recognised first-team centre halves at the club, with only a month to go until the season begins.

I fail to see how Everton can sell him and come out of it with their heads held high on any level at this point.

Even a large sum of money is going to make them look like a bunch of jesters.

Uncle Bill has come out and said Stones is the best English centre half out there, which is a bold claim (but a reasonable one in some respects), but why has he said that now? Driving the price up a bit more? Or is his comment about building a strong, stable, young squad more telling? I'd like to think it was the latter and that Kenwright & Co. are actually going to stand up to the bully-boy tactics of those down in London who think they can steal away our best young player just because they have the money & (so called) glamour to do so.

We all know these tactics are nothing new, it's been debated at length for a few days now, but I would absolutely love it if we hung on to him and told them to forget it.

Gary Cahill can go get fucked (sorry Ed's) as well for the shit he's spouting about Stones joining them. He's talking as though it's almost a done deal which make me want to vomit down the back of his shirt. Wanker. Sorry for the language TW'ers, I'm a bit pissed off with it all now.

I really don't want Stones to leave.

Dick Brady
181 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:33:35
So if we manage to hold onto Stones, is Roberto really planning to go into the new season with just the two new signings? Just over £4 million spent?

That's a big ask considering the amount of money the other teams have spent and continue to spend.

Good luck Roberto.

John Daley
182 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:25:12

All it would take is Stones expressing a wish to leave or putting in a transfer request to give the board a way of selling without losing (too much) face.

You'll hear the usual rhetoric of how it would be self defeating to try and force a player to stay against his will, and Bill will come out of it smelling of roses for making the best of an impossible situation by forcing them to fork out a more sizeable fee than they were originally prepared to pay.

Jim Hardin
183 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:11:21
For those wanting Stones to say anything. Why should he even if he can? He will do what Baines did and sit on the fence and let the business side of it work itself out. It really is up to the Board to say he is not for sale and their silence is deafening.

So they should simply put a high price on Stones which will indicate he may be sold and will likely get some more bidders involved. Also put in a cut-off date of no sale after August 5 for squad continuity reasons. Then tell Martinez that he will have a stated amount of money immediately available if a sale occurs to use for replacing Stones. Martinez then can make plans to get in an experienced starting centerback and maybe another for back up without having to scramble to even identify a target and to make preliminary inquiries.

Martinez should still be proceeding according to his preseason plans for player acquisition to bolster the squad regardless of the Stones drama. Heck RM should just publicly start identifying the players he wants and putting out bids in the press for those players.

As people have pointed out we may lose Stones in the very, or not so very, near future, but we likely will lose him at some point in the next four years. However, we don't have to sell him right now. The squad as it stands at the moment can go into the season with the players it currently has and expect to finish no worse that it did last season and possibly a whole lot better with it being a non-WC year.

Off topic, I am thinking that I know what the infamous "other operating expenses" are. I believe that alot of the extra cash we all suspect Everton has, or should have from the TV money, has been spent on expanding the medical facilities. Heck, given the long list of injuries, we may have a full hospital wing by now.

Lewis Barclay
184 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:47:17
Simple response: we should only sell Stones if there is there is a large possibility that doing so will result in turning us into a "big club" otherwise we must retain out bargaining position for another year at least.

I’d be surprised if Stone’s head has not been turned though. I think we have to accept that one or two of Mirallas, Stones, McCarthy and Coleman will go before the end of the season.

James Morgan
186 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:51:55
What truly takes the piss is the article on Sky Sports quoting Gary Cahill.

"One player manager Jose Mourinho has yet to sign is Everton defender John Stones with Sky sources reporting the champions are set to increase their offer for the 21-year-old having had an initial bid of £20m rejected last week."

Yet to sign? Twats!

And then Cahill goes on to talk him up for Chelsea. It’s a joke.

Raymond Fox
187 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:41:58
John, Kenwright and Martinez will know now what Stones wishes to do.

If he does want to leave its counter productive to refuse him in my eyes, some might disagree with that statement I know.

Even with Stones in the side were not a top 4 side, when we finished with our record points total, we were 7 points adrift at the finish.

The only way we’ll escape from being plucky losers will be if we are taken over by an owner like Chelsea and Man City have now

Stephen Brown
189 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:03:42
Put in a £15M bid for Gary Cahill and get Jagielka to talk him up in the press!

Jags could say something like he's great on England duty and I'd like to develop the partnership at club level! He'd love it here at the fourth most successful club ever, according to our paymasters at sky! I'm sure Stonsey could pick up from tips from him in training too!

Martinez could then talk about Cahill developing his game next to Jageilka and Baines and it being for the good of the national team.

John Daley
190 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:14:35

I wasn’t suggesting that a player should be kept hold of if they want out, nor that this is the case with Stones.

My post was merely a response to James M, who said he couldn’t see a way for Everton to sell without looking like right tits (after claiming to have sent a letter ruling out any possibility of a sale). I was just suggesting a way in which the club could still sell this summer and come out of it without too much egg on their face.

Brian Porter
192 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:08:36
If Stones is sold to Chelsea after the insults and mockery of our club and our manager by Mourinho and the blatant tapping up of our CONTRACTED player by slimeball of the year Gary Cahill, then after almost 57 years of supporting this great club, I guarantee I will never watch another Everton game as long as this board is in control of the club. Just who the hell do Chelsea think they are to talk down to us and our manager in this way and deliberately attempt to unsettle our player.

Using Cahill is a sly way of making an approach that if made by their manager would be considered illegal tapping up of our player. This whole business stinks of bully boy tactics by the champions and not a nice thing to see happening in the game. The new season starts in just over two weeks and this has disrupted our whole pre-season preparations, plus we would not have time to replace Stones if sold so close to the new season.

For God’s sake, Kenwright, tell Chelsea to fuck off and tell them Stones is not for sale. Come back in a year when he has a few England caps and we might consider a bid of £60M.
Jon Cox
193 Posted 22/07/2015 at 17:31:28
Mark (36)

"Really don’t see why some on here are getting so het up about a situation that you have no control over. If he is sold, they pay the price, if he stays it won’t be for long if the young man keeps on progressing."

If that’s the case, can anyone please tell me why I’ve been supporting Everton for the last 50 odd years?

Mediocrity, don’t you just love it.

Gavin Johnson
194 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:26:10
Stephen #193 - I wouldn't bid £15M for Cahill. You never know, they might accept the offer! Now a £15M bid for Costa or Hazard would illustrate the ludicrousness of Chelsea's £20M offer.
Jon Cox
195 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:35:38
Brian, don’t forget mate TalkSport are helping every step of the way.

They even had the temerity to liken us to Barnsley.

Where’s Guido Fawkes when you need him?

Tom Dodds
196 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:43:31
Word of warning..If you want to know if he is already sold ???....

If Morhino starts being nice to us..,,

Jim Hardin
197 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:28:04
Not an RM fan, as is obvious from my posts last season, but I feel for him in this situation. It is obvious that the Board has not told him that Stones is not for sale period. Without that backing what can he say that will end the conjecture and sniping?

As for Jose, he may be playing an end game that is brilliant. Chelsea truly do not need Stones at this point. Stones is not ready to step in ahead of the players they have. But they don’t want to lose out on him for three or four years either. So, by making these comments about no one saying he isn’t for sale, maybe JM is forcing the Everton Board to make the comment to settle things down.

This in turn guarantees that Stones won’t be sold to anyone else this season so that Chelsea can come in next season and buy him, albeit at a higher fee which they can obviously afford. Not to mention that the fee and wages will be offset by the off-loading of a player for a fee or not, and his wages, for whoever’s position on the squad he takes. Just a thought after re-reading his comments again.

Johnny Rainford
198 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:59:19
Jeffers... Rooney... Lescott... Rodwell... Stones?

Something has gone VERY wrong since 1999 when we became a selling club.

I wonder what it was...

Ray Said
200 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:14:39
There is a bit of a contradiction here-the club think Stones is worth £20M+ as they have turned down that much for him. They pay him £30k per week which is big bucks for most of us but is not a wage in line with a player the club value in excess of £20M+. Why not offer him a new deal at a wage in line with his valuation?
Ian Brandes
201 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:12:09
Stones has gone, no doubt. Just give the money to our next manager, who will hopefully arrive well before we face relegation.

The team looked dispirited, listless, unfit, and almost incapable of playing against a not too superb Arsenal. WTF!

Jose is right. Under RM, we are a smaller club, and, sadly, Bobby Bullshit will make us even smaller, given the chance.

I despair and the season has not even started.

Jon Cox
202 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:45:16

I've lost the will to live.

I give up

Dave Pritchard
203 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:31:47
Don't do it Jon.
Raymond Fox
205 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:21:26
Jesus, so much for Lyndon’s plea for less negativity!

In reply to the Martinez out fans, we finished 5th with a record Premier League points total in his first season, last season it wasn’t great admittedly, but 11th is hardly a disaster of mammoth proportions! I blame that waste-of-time Europa League tournament for 3 or 4 places drop in the league.

This business with Stones and rumoured interest in McCarthy and Mirallas hardly helps our preparations does it, but it's par for the course for teams outside the mega-rich such as the usual top 4 or 5 clubs.

Ray Roche
206 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:30:29
Johnny Rainford @202

Johnny, we were a selling club when we let Ball go. And Lineker. It's not just a recent phenomenon.

Bill Farmer
207 Posted 22/07/2015 at 20:04:41
Yes, Ray, and so are almost all the other clubs in the Premier League – aren't Man Utd losing their keeper and Liverpool their young hot-shot?

It's what always happens in football. And say it quietly but it's not the end of the world, Stones is a long way from being 'the best central defender in GB' as some would have it!

Johnny Rainford
208 Posted 22/07/2015 at 20:04:57
Yeh Ray, not quite as difficult to swallow when it's done on our terms though mate.

I'm sure we all feel that (all too familiar) dread of inevitability when one of our prospects gets an England call up and it shouldn't be this way.

Raymond (#209), I agree mate but it's hard to find positives about the club when the most consistent thing about us in the last 16 years is the continual selling of our brightest prospects.

I thought the aim of a football club is to win trophies? The current incumbents of our club seem to think we should be grateful just surviving. FFS, Kenwright, let's see some ambition eh.

Des Farren
209 Posted 22/07/2015 at 19:50:58
Stones will be sold, no question, but it’s a matter of when. If we hold on to him for another year, it should suit his development and confidence as a Premier League player. It also will suit Everton’s purposes for coming season.

It also, as stated by others on here, increase his valuation considerably. This time next year would see a bidding war for his services.

If the board decide to sell now they are fools.

Jon Cox
210 Posted 22/07/2015 at 20:51:27
Derek Thomas

You are of course,

Talking about a car?

Tim Locke
211 Posted 22/07/2015 at 18:51:30
With the introduction of the Sky money the playing field is becoming level. No longer do clubs need to sell, no longer are we sat with a begging bowl waiting for the crumbs to fall off. We as a club need to make a decision, are we a selling club or a building club. If we are building then we need to be clear on the players we want to build a team around and the players who can be let go. £100m £200m, we don't sell. We don't need to and we have more chance of winning something hanging onto top players than thinking we can attract them with money in the bank.

Why won't Spurs win the league, why won't the RS win the league because they are selling clubs. They have exceptional players and they sell them. If we want to play for 6th place and a good cup run let him go, but you are sending a message to everyone Everton's days of winning are over.

Dave Pritchard
212 Posted 22/07/2015 at 20:55:17
Bill (211), Stones does indeed have some way to go to being anywhere close to the best central defender in the league. I think he needs to strengthen physically, improve his concentration levels and also develop more of a nasty streak.

(Similar statements applied to the young Jack Rodwell and most are probably happy we sold for £12M.)

However, Stones’s potential is huge and it would be great to watch it develop with us. If a really big offer came in, I think we would sell though.

Jon Cox
213 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:04:03
Simon, 145,


Andy Walker
214 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:26:01
If they want to offer £30m for an unproven defender, bite their hands off. Can't blame Stones for wanting to move it will be a great opportunity to join what is sadly now the bigger club. Times have changed.

Another Moyes financial legacy for Martinez to piss up the wall.

Jon Cox
215 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:38:03
By the way, TWers

Don't you think there’s a lot of posters on this thread that are quite new....

Gavin Johnson
216 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:40:06
Andy – Bit unfair that comment as Martinez nearly bought Stones for Wigan, Stones going as far as having the medical there.

Had that happened, he'd have been another one of the Wigan contingent Martinez brought along to Everton. Wonder if some on TW would be valuing him at £30M+ then.

Jeremy Jansen
217 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:40:34
So many replies to go through....

Derek 45 - 100% Agree!
Phill 60 - Exactly!
Colin 64 - Don't forget to lump Moyes in there too for the Fellaini and Baines crap!

Andy Walker
218 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:46:53
But he didn't Gavin........
Gavin Johnson
219 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:50:31
True he didn't, but Stones can't really be used as a yardstick to beat Martinez for his transfer acumen.
Joe Foster
220 Posted 22/07/2015 at 21:54:06
What if Gavin
Gavin Johnson
221 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:00:02
Joe, Stones was scouted by Martinez. It doesn’t have nowt to do with 'what ifs'. It's a stupid argument to use Stones to highlight the transfer genius of the Moyssiah compared to Martinez.
Ray Roche
222 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:06:10

Lads, the fact that Ball and Lineker were sold "on our terms" does little to warrant the sale of the, at the time, arguably best English players of their generation. Ball, in many fans eyes the greatest Everton player ever, and Lineker, Golden Boot winner, England forward who set the World Cup alight....Everton saw the glint of the money and they were gone.

Bill, yes, no one is immune from losing their players these days, but the sale of Ball....? Some lads on here still haven't got over it yet!

Ian Hollingworth
223 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:03:12
So what we don’t know is what John Stones wants. As much as we all love Everton, please don’t be surprised when we find out he actually quite fancies a move to a team that wins trophies almost every season and will treble his wages.

What affection or loyalty does John Stones have to Everton? How do you think Barnsley fans felt when we pinched their home grown talent?

I hate it as much as all of you but we need to get real and face facts this is our lot and under the current regime I see nothing being put in place to change that fact.

We need to start worrying about who we get in as replacements and do you trust the current regime (Chairman and Manager) to get it right?

Derek Hughes
224 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:20:51
How much did Chelsea sell David Luiz for? He has less potential and is not an overpriced English player like Stones.

Do the maths Jose, then come back with a proper price!
Ian Lloyd
226 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:21:32
Ladies, Gentlemen, Evertonians, Blues, Blue Boys, Blue Girls, Toffees, Blue Noses......

It hurts to say, this is going to be a long, long hard shite season for us, 2 weeks to kick off and Dell boy injured already, the team will be unsettled with all this crap about Stones, McCarthy, Mirallas, Coleman, Lukaku... etc....

I can just see us probably bottom 3 come the end of our 1st 10 games.....and we’ll no doubt take some beatings.

Don’t mean to sound negative but does anyone truly have any hopes for this season? It will be another trophyless season fighting relegation, with shite tactics and players like McGeady, Gibson, Hibbert, Osman, Barry, Kone, Naismith who in my opinion have to go, they are too old, not good enough, too injury prone. They will not take us forward. We would save over £12 million a year in wages alone just getting rid....

Stones will no doubt leave - either play it out to the shite we have, ie, Barry, McGeady, Osman, Kone or play it out to players like Fabregas, Hazard, Willian, Costa whilst tripling his wages, winning trophies etc.....

WTF must he think looking at the shite he has in front of us.......Martinez needs to get rid of this dead wood and the board need to grow some big hairy King Kong bollocks tell these so called "Big Clubs" sorry, wealthy clubs with fuck all history to fucking do one, lah.

Drew O'Neall
227 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:37:41
Don't you see? Martinez has played an absolute blinder here.

There's one absolute about Jose Mourinho, his ego.

By making this personal Jose will just have to get his man. I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez up the ante again in the coming week or so.

Finally at the point Mourinho's told everyone what a big club Chelsea are and how small minded Martinez has been and little Everton are etc etc RM can just publicly name a price and at that point Mourinho has to either pay it or lose, when the stakes have become so high, it's as simple as that.

Martinez is using Mourinho's ego against Chelsea in these negotiations so that he can name a bigger price when the time comes, the more Mourinho is personally bought in the less he will want to back down when we name a >£40m price tag, at which point we will be in a no lose situation.

Tim Locke
228 Posted 22/07/2015 at 22:45:40
Ian - I have heard nothing from Stones or his agent saying he wants to leave. I would guess if the club do sell they will make him hand a transfer request in like others.

But before we even go down that route, why should we care what stones thinks. He is a quality player and contracted to Everton for four years. So I don't care what he thinks the club should stand firm and say he is going nowhere. Stones will be professional and play.

Doug Harris
229 Posted 22/07/2015 at 23:05:39
Good post Drew and I well see the logic in it.

None of us want to see John Stones leave as posted before he is one of Bob's foundation stones that will make us great again. gGod knows how long it will take though. When you get an egotistical wanker like Maureen gobbing off he defo needs a slapping down.

Hope the young fella stays with us for the meantime anyway ....He can only get better with us and increase his market value...if he does stay that is
Bill Gall
230 Posted 23/07/2015 at 01:10:15
Watching Chelsea playing New York Red Bulls, and the commentator talking about Chelsea's transfer activities, said they were after Stones the, "Liverpool defender."

Lot of exposure Everton getting in USA with Howard, when the commentators do not even have a clue who Stones plays for.

Bill Gall
231 Posted 23/07/2015 at 02:53:55
Footnote. Chelsea, using most of their Premier League team, were beaten by that small MLS team New York Red Bulls using mostly young second-team players 4-2. Nice one.
Chris Wilson
232 Posted 23/07/2015 at 04:09:22
I like your optimism Drew (229). I think this has become a fascinating bit of drama for the media too. If the Everton camp is on solid ground, ie, Stones has told Roberto and/or Kenwright that he doesn’t want to go; then indeed the best strategy is to remain silent for now, and let Chelsea continue to open their mouths and look more and more frustrated and desperate.

Roberto might throw out a take it or leave it offer that would be hard for Chelsea to swallow (could be risky though if Jose called our bluff). But I disagree that Jose would "lose". He’s already planned out his escape route if necessary in his Sky interview when he accused this "smaller club" of infuriatingly inflating the price of our English defender.

He would find some reason to bash us for how we handled the transfer window, and continue with the "smaller club" jabs. Ultimately he would find a way to make himself look like the winner in this. If that’s the case, he can give himself all the credit he likes; just so long as he goes away... forever... and that we hand him his ass when he comes to Goodison. I did like your analysis though.

James Flynn
233 Posted 23/07/2015 at 05:10:18
Gibson, Hibbert, Osman, Pienaar, and Kone are in the last year of their contracts. Where is the money coming from to replace them all?

If by some miracle, Gibson's legs are still under him come January, I could see him being offered a deal or another club willing to take a chance on him. But, if any of the others are extended, we really do have problems. Add 36 year-old Barry still on the roster.

So, we know whose pockets the money is NOT coming from. Which leaves selling someone and we all know it.

Chris Wilson
234 Posted 23/07/2015 at 05:48:24
Story on Chelsea getting beat by the NY Redbulls B team:

HARRISON, NJ. After conceding four second-half goals and losing to a New York Red Bulls side that was essentially their third-team, you would think Jose Mourinho would have some concerns.

You're wrong.

After the match, Mourinho said Chelsea has "no fragilities," and believes if they were to play the Red Bulls nine more times, they'd win every game.

Despite calling the second half a "disaster," Mourinho scoffed at a reporter in his post-match press conference when it was suggested that Chelsea may have some frailties in their side.

"You are speaking with the manager of the best team in England. We don't have fragilities."

"We are a top team, we have top players. We started training six days ago and we did 11 training sessions in six days. We don't need other players."

"We play ten times against Red Bulls, we win nine. The second half was a disaster, but I'm not worried."

"They gave us a good training session. If we came here today and won 10-0, I'm not happy with that."

Despite Mourinho saying Chelsea doesn't need any other players, the Blues have been linked with a big-money move for John Stones.

Darryl Ritchie
235 Posted 23/07/2015 at 06:26:13
One club says "I like that player. I’m going to make a bid on him". The other club says "Bid what you ever you want, we have him under contract for the next four years, he’s not for sale".

In the end it won’t matter if we have John Stones under contract; if Stones wants to go... he probably goes! If he wants to stay... there’s a good chance he stays!

I really don’t think the club wants to sell him, but if Chelsea offer silly money; you never know. If he does go, we can’t seem to find two quality replacements for Distin and Alcaraz, and they weren’t even starting. Finding 3 is going to be next to impossible.

I guess we’ll have to play a unique formation, Jags, two fullbacks, five midfielders, two wings and a striker. Jags was timed as one of quickest players in the league; he can cover the back. Right?

Darryl Ritchie
236 Posted 23/07/2015 at 07:15:36
Whoops! Lose the wings and add Kone. That should work.
Kieran Fitzgerald
237 Posted 23/07/2015 at 07:29:57
Fair play Mourinho. You give us Stones, and for the fee we are offering, you don't have to give us anything for Lukaku. I think you can see why he is taking the piss. The club would come out the morning after Stones leaves and will tell us we have managed to get a top class striker for free.

Well, guess what, you don't even have to be Jose Morinho to come up with this joke.

Harold Matthews
238 Posted 23/07/2015 at 07:58:56
Yes, Gavin (#164), you know exactly how I feel... but, as everyone seems to think he’ll end up better than Puyol or Franco Baresi, I’m saying nothing.
Dave Abrahams
239 Posted 23/07/2015 at 08:43:07
Drew (226) you are making Martinez out to be a master tactician in the transfer stakes? I hope you are right... but is he?
Phil Rodgers
240 Posted 23/07/2015 at 09:22:50

But has the damage been done?

Andy Parsons
241 Posted 23/07/2015 at 09:31:44
There is no reason why Everton need to sell. All this talk of £35M ignores that his value to us far exceeds that on the pitch.

Okay, if it's important to you set the value at £40M and if anyone bites then discuss it. But he has four years left, there is no need to sell. We hold all the cards and everything I have seen and read about John Stones tells me that he's level headed and won't be kicking up a fuss if he is told that we are blocking any deal.

There has never been more money in football, even at Everton. We don't need to cash in, that mentality needs to stop. We don't need to sell to buy either and if anyone says we do then that's on the board not backing the manager – a totally separate issue.

If – and it's a big 'if' – Stones was to put in a transfer request, a step I personally don't think he would ever take, then the issue turns on its head. Until then, there's no reason whatsoever to sell.

Chris Gould
242 Posted 23/07/2015 at 10:50:29
Chelsea have admitted receiving a letter from Everton stating that Stones is not for sale and any bid would not be welcomed.
So knowing that Everton don’t wish to sell, they initiated a media campaign aimed at unsettling him.

For them to admit that they did receive the letter confirms that they are unethical scumbags without a shred of integrity. In no way should this be acceptable.

Steve Cotton
243 Posted 23/07/2015 at 11:38:35
Andy Parsons (#240), you are right: there is no need to sell, except for the slight problem that we don’t have any money and we need two more centre-backs just to stand still. We probably need to sell one just to get the other two that we need.

At the centre-back position at the moment we have Stones and Jags and two kids whereas the RS have Caan, Skrtel, Toure, Lovren, Sakha, Llori and Gomez... oh yes, and 3 good kids in the Under-21s.

Up front we have Lukaku, Naismith and Kone, guess who now have 8 internationals up front to pick from? Okay, they are the Devil's Spawn... but we are getting so far behind it is a joke!

And don’t get me going on the wages....

Mike Allison
244 Posted 23/07/2015 at 11:37:47
Chelsea have got this all wrong. It’s got to the stage where even if we accepted that we were going to sell him to a richer club for ridiculous money (and I don’t accept that), I’d say to Stones:

"Sorry John, but because of what Chelsea have done this week the price for them is £10M above what anyone else bids. I’m sure you understand we can’t let it look like we’ll be bullied. If you really want to leave now, we need to engineer it as a victory for the club, I’m sure you understand. And by the way, stick with us for a bit and it could be Real Madrid or Barcelona rather than a bunch of flash London wannabes."

By all accounts, he’s a level headed lad, and won’t do a Lescott anyway.

Dave Roberts
245 Posted 23/07/2015 at 11:27:14
Perhaps this is not actually ’tapping up’ in the accepted sense of the phrase but having been told verbally and in writing to fuck off (or in words to that effect) Chelsea then try to unsettle the player and thereby the club. This is absolutely despicable behaviour. Just as despicable is the assistance Chelsea are receiving from the media.

Perhaps the Echo can now repair some of the damage to the relationship between the supporters, the club and the paper by making a big journalistic issue of this... a full back-page article telling how a club that thinks its BIG because it fell over a Russian’s wallet containing considerable ill-gotten gains (read the stories about Abramovich) tries to unsettle another club that it thinks is SMALL because it’s a bit skint at the moment and asking the football world the question: "Is this really what football should be about?"

Another aspect of the article could be about how so-called BIG clubs seem to get ample assistance from certain sections of the media in their attempts to undermine their SMALLER rivals and achieve their objectives. Despite the Echo being a local paper, this would be a big story if somebody was brave enough to write it correctly and it would spread... it would certainly spread to the Daily Mirror, part of the same media group.

This sort of thing is turning me off football. One of the best examples was two years ago when Man Utd announced their acquisition of David Moyes before the season had ended. The whole of the national media seemed to think this was okay, not one outlet to my knowledge asked anything like, "Is that fair... the right thing to do?"

To rub it in, that well known Manure fan and otherwise fat bastard Eamonn Holmes, when asked about it during his morning news programme on Sky on the day it was announced, pulled a face as if to suggest it was no problem for Manure or for him and nor should it be for anybody else.

Perhaps the Echo could also remind its readers and the national media just how small Chelsea used to be! They were 24 hours from going tits up before Abramovich rescued them and with virtually no history at that time (and not that much more now because history is not about trophies alone) who would have missed them?

To finish the article the Echo could provide lists of both club’s histories side by side, starting at 1878. Chelsea’s would be pretty bare until the last 10 years or so.

Sam Hoare
246 Posted 23/07/2015 at 12:12:51
I am bored of this story now. Can’t we have some more plausible incoming transfer to talk about?

What the latest Glastradamus? We still getting Sergi Roberto?

And surely there must be at least one if not two CBs coming in? Dragovic anyone? Our squad definitely needs a couple more first teamers....

Andy Parsons
247 Posted 23/07/2015 at 12:40:25

What do you mean "We haven’t got any money"? There’s never been more money in football. After the massive hike in TV revenue, every Premier League club is spending like crazy: Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, Newcastle etc are all spending the new money. You might not like who they’ve signed but the TV money is being spent.

This isn’t 2004 when the "we’re skint’ line was being thrown about; this is 2015. Things have changed and, just because our board have refused to change their strategy to keep pace, doesn’t mean that the money isn’t coming in.

Sorry, the buy-to-sell policy is inflicted on us by a board with zero ambition. But not because there is no money. Sounds to me like you want Stones to be sold because you've bought what this board has tried to sell. I disagree, not that we need the signings you mention, because we do, but because we shouldn’t be accepting the sale of yet another top asset to fund it.

James Marshall
248 Posted 23/07/2015 at 12:47:07
All this talk of the players being unsettled when the season starts, and therefore suddenly being shit at football. Uh? What are they, 5-year-olds worried about their friend leaving for a different school?

Give me strength.

Charles Brewer
249 Posted 23/07/2015 at 13:12:10
This cannot be seen to be unexpected. John Stones is probably the hottest English prospect in football today.

It is beyond belief (therefore quite likely) that Martinez and Kenwright have not planned the 2015-16 season on the basis that someone will come in with an unmissable offer in the current period.

I should have hoped that Martinez's supposedly excellent contacts with Barcelona (and for all I know, Real Madrid too) would have resulted either in genuine or feigned interest from that quarter.

What I would hope has been well and truly war-gamed is:

1) Screwing Chelsea for at least £50 million by sounding out and making public interest from Barça, Real Madrid and a few in this country;

2) Having an established alternative-to-Stones plan fully costed and in place;

3) An established course of acquisitions from a £60 million, £40 million and £30 million sale for a replacement centre-back, a creative midfielder and a goalkeeper who neither flaps, drops the ball, nor punches it straight to the opposition (and who doesn't get dizzy outside the goal area).

The point is, once you have decided that a star player has at least a 50:50 prospect of leaving, you plan and scheme to rake in the maximum (especially when it's from a Russian), and, at least on paper, with as many pre-agreed contractually binding options as possible, plan for both Stones staying, and Stones leaving.

Dick Fearon
250 Posted 23/07/2015 at 13:36:16
The answer is in the club's hands but they are not willing to use it.

For their duration, contracts should be under FIFA's control. Prior to signing, players, their agents, and clubs, would be aware that contracts could not be altered by any party.

Some might say this would be a step back toward the old cry of contract slavery. I wouldn’t mind being a multimillionaire slave if only for a max of 5 years.

Jay Harris
251 Posted 23/07/2015 at 15:34:12
From this morning’s soundbites, it looks like Mourhino has been told to back off. He is now saying his squad is adequate and he doesn't need any more signings.

Whether he has poisoned Stones enough already or he has been told to back off, I couldn't say, but it certainly takes the media pressure off the situation.

Charles Brewer
252 Posted 23/07/2015 at 15:33:06
Dick, while there may be some point in the football transfer market being rather more orderly, I don’t think getting FIFA involved is quite the right idea!

Can you imagine the "fees", not to mention the oceans of backhanders, bribes, swindles and sheer corruption that would follow.

It’s a bit off topic, but I’d be happy to see all international football shut down for a decade, to see the "Champions League" go to exclusively Sky (and die there, unwatched), and for there to be a properly audited spending cap on teams. Say £10 million a year on players wages per team, and, like American football, a limit to squad sizes for mature players. 30 players over 21 should do nicely.

We might get a bit of competition then instead of the dreary progression which is the Premier League these days.

Will Firstbrook
253 Posted 23/07/2015 at 16:11:32
Chelsea is playing this quite well, to be honest. They have a valuation of the player in mind and will not pay over the odds (especially for a developing ’prospect’). They have put forth a decent starting bid to get the attention of a cash-strapped club like ours.

They have left room to up the ante to help smooth over hard feelings in the hopes the player will agitate for a move in the process. We will always be vulnerable to this strategy as long as we have small-time Charlies running this Club.

James Marshall
254 Posted 23/07/2015 at 16:18:33
Something that struck me, is that Everton have publicly turned down the bid yet everyone is still talking about Stones being sold. Why? Because the media say Chelsea will bid again. And? So what?

Mourinho has now shrugged his shoulders in an interview and shook his head when asked if they're going to bid again, which could mean they're either not going to bid again, or he's been told to keep his mouth shut by the powers that be at Chelsea. I'm guessing it's the latter.

Whatever they do next, Everton hold all the cards. Literally every one of them, so as far as I see it, whatever happens it will be down to our club to decide if he's sold this summer.

It would be a brave man who does sell him in the next few weeks because we're well short of a full complement of defenders already and losing another one at any price will leave us in a very bad place defensively. I cannot for one second see Martinez backing this sale. Not for all the tea in China. Sadly it wouldn't be his decision.

Andrew Ellams
255 Posted 23/07/2015 at 16:29:02
James, I did wonder, if Stones was sold against the manager’s wishes, would he resign in protest?
Michael Polley
256 Posted 23/07/2015 at 13:10:42
Apparently RM's manhood is bigger than Mourinho's - end of discussion. Off you go Mourinho !!!
Brian Harrison
257 Posted 23/07/2015 at 16:50:54
Chelsea have leaked the information about their bid for Stones, as everybody is now aware. The reason they or any club leaks this sort of information is to unsettle the player. You can be sure that, even though they're not supposed too, Chelsea will have contacted Stones agent. Remember this is the way City went about it over Lescott, they even leaked to the press the sort of money they would be paying him.

So I am sure they will have told Stones agent exactly what they will pay him plus bonuses for qualifying for a Champions League spot and winning a trophy. So now they will sit back knowing that Stones agent will be in his ear, telling him this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that he can't turn down.

They hope that Stones will have told Everton what his wishes are and this will then trigger an increased bid. I am sure at this point Chelsea will be well aware of what Stones wants. So once Everton know that Stones wants to leave if that is what he wants, then it's just down to how much they can squeeze out of Chelsea.

I would suggest that Everton ask for all the money in one go and the deal to be done quickly, giving them time to get in the players they want.
James Flynn
258 Posted 23/07/2015 at 15:41:07
Drew (226) - No. Neither has Mourinho, mind.

Jose wants Stones. Roman tells him, "Have a go." Our owners reject the price. Higher price offered or not. Rejected or not. In the end, neither Jose or Roberto determine if the sale is agreed. That's money and it ain't theirs.

Mourinho has more say, of course. His owner wants every piece of silverware out there and has proved it. Roman needs to listen to his manager's requests for the right players to go get the trophies. Stones fits the bill. Fair to add, the deals Chelsea have done since Mourinho's return (in or out), have been profitable on and off the pitch.

Roberto, unfortunately, is like you and me. He's sitting and wondering what will happen. Certainly, he has inside information regarding the goings-on which we don't. But, no "blinder" being played. More than anything, his silence is worrying because it can only mean the Club is considering the sale and getting the best price.

If the numbers don't work out and young John isn't sold to Chelsea somewhere in the next few weeks, then and only then, will Roberto be permitted to meet the press saying, "He's committed to Everton." "Building our future around him.", etc.

Jose and Roberto jousting on the money end? No such thing.

Timothy Blanshard
259 Posted 23/07/2015 at 19:06:26
Unless the offer is £100M and two of their first team players plus Jose has to engineer a move for Moses back to Liverpool, then we’re not in the slightest bit interested.

I think half the time with Jose he does it to unsettle teams and the spirit they have in the dressing room. I wish Roberto would just tell him to fuck off.

Simon Berrey
260 Posted 23/07/2015 at 22:22:59
I've just seen that Chelski lost 2 - 4 to New York Red Bull with Cahill and Zouma and then Terry and Zouma playing at Centre Backs. Still okay with your current squad, Jose?

Oh and as a point on "big clubs", Jose: if Stones was to see out his current contract at Everton and walk over to Chelski, and in the intervening period Chelski were to win every League title until then, he would still be joining a club with no more League titles than the one he has just left.

If you know your history !

Go away, Chelski, we were here first and will be here a long time after the bubble bursts.

Oliver Molloy
261 Posted 23/07/2015 at 22:46:27
None of us really know what is going on. I am now completely fed up with all of it to be honest. I have posted my thoughts so many times on this saga that I forget what I have said!

Surely Kenwright has a deadline day for Chelsea to come back with an acceptable offer and we move on if this doesn’t materialise.
And if they do, I still think both Manchester clubs will get involved.

Pete Edwards
262 Posted 24/07/2015 at 08:53:11
You only have to see what Maureen has said about de Bruyne, he’s cacking it that, if Man City sign him, he will be proved wrong to have sold him and obviously trying to put the lad off moving back to the Premier League. The man’s ego is astonishing and won’t want to be beaten in his pursuit of Stones (although I think he will be).
Bjoern Haall
263 Posted 24/07/2015 at 11:18:39
Well Jose. We want to be a "big club" again. But we will use other ways than yours. We want to build it from the ground and not only pay huge money for a fancy roof. To do that we cannot let or best and most talented players leave for such small amounts you are talking about. We are the peoples club. We raise and nurture our players to be good people. We will soon win trophies again. Trust me.
Philip Johnson
264 Posted 24/07/2015 at 13:51:56
After last season's performance, this is a big big test for Martinez. He needs to stand up to Jose's so-called 'mind games' and just keep saying "No". It is that simple. Anything other than that just talks up the situation and fans the flames.

If we want to finish top 6 this season we need to keep players like Stones. It is that simple.

Liu Weixian
265 Posted 24/07/2015 at 15:27:42
At the rate we are going, we will be winning silverware: the Championship trophy!
Paul O'Neill
266 Posted 24/07/2015 at 19:23:53
Chelsea have a fit for purpose modern stadium, get to Champion League Finals, win trophies, and have money. Everton are the direct opposite now and that’s a tragedy. The cold facts are he’s right. We are a big club but never has the term sleeping giant been so accurate.

I still like Bobby a lot. It’s not his fault at all. We charge 600 quid for season ticket holders to sit in wooden seats with a restricted view.... wonderful old place that Goodison is. No trophies for 20 years and very well run, for a club that aims to just stay in the Premier League and the occasional cup run.

We have become Sheffield Wednesday with a Premier League badge. Jose has been very very complimentary of Everton and Goodison Park in the past. But he’s a highly accomplished and intelligent man who is merely stating facts. Sack the board and show some ambition. I’m a season ticket holder by the way. Upper Gwladys St.

Johnny Rainford
267 Posted 24/07/2015 at 22:51:58
Yep, An abundant number of similar posts on this thread.

30/40 years ago the headlines would have been about us going after the brightest prospects. Now, it's other clubs who spent most of that time outside the First Division. Jeezus... WTF has gone wrong !?

There is NO WAY that a World Cup winner like Alan Ball would consider coming to us nowadays and successive boards in that period should be ashamed that they have squandered the legacy.

Don’t give me any crap about not having any money. The game is replete so speculate to accumulate. Our board have no ambition and are unwilling to take risks because winning trophies is no longer the priority, its' all about balancing the books.

Time to let go, Bill.

Tony Farrell
268 Posted 25/07/2015 at 05:05:50
I would like to ask fellow blues regarding the Stones Chelsea saga, Does anyone think there's something going on between the clubs involving the Lukaku transfer? My question is did we pay 28 mill outright or was there a deal on a season by season payment?

If this is so I can see the board saying sell Stones, clear the Lukaku debt with a few quid to spare. I sincerely hope I am wrong... can anybody clear this for me?

In my opinion, Stones can become the best centre-back in the country, and we don’t want to sell our best assets. Come on, Bill, think of the supporters before you think of your greedy board.

Michael Kenrick
269 Posted 25/07/2015 at 07:31:44
I think there's half-a-dozen posts on this rather lengthy thread floating that particular canard, Tony.

It's gone all quiet now... let sleeping dogs, I say. Perhaps it will all become just a bad memory.

Philip Bunting
270 Posted 25/07/2015 at 07:38:03
Anyone noticed Chelsea and Man City never chase the same players? You would think City would be after him also, have they an agreement?
Ray Roche
271 Posted 25/07/2015 at 08:39:43
Martin O'Hare has posted earlier in this thread. I would be grateful if he'd get in touch on

Nothing sinister, just about his memories of the 1966 World Cup.

Keith Harrison
272 Posted 25/07/2015 at 09:40:48
Scotland's papers this morning are apparently all saying that Van Dijk is on his way here from Celtic 'as a replacement for John Stones'.

I would prefer to think he would be coming to supplement Stones, with it being great if McGeady went the other way!

Phil Sammon
273 Posted 25/07/2015 at 09:51:21
I don't know what to think anymore. I personally wouldn't sell Stones at all.

...That said, I believe we'd be a better team next year if he went for £50M and we spent the money well.

I truly believe Stones will be great and I love to watch him play. However right now I think that his defensive qualities could be replaced by a £5M player.

I want to keep him, I want him at Everton for the next 15 years. We can't sell for any less than £50M.

My nightmare scenario is BK letting him go for £30M - which in today's market is cheap for a player as good as Stones is going to become.

I'm all over the place...sorry.

Chris Gould
274 Posted 25/07/2015 at 11:41:16
Roy Hodgson has now come out and said that he would still consider Stones for England if he was sitting on the bench at a top 4 club!! Why does he feel the need to come out and say that?!

Who at Chelsea has asked him to reassure Stones that he will still be considered for England if he moves there?

I really hope this is lighting a fire in the belly of this 'small club’!

Trevor Powell
275 Posted 25/07/2015 at 12:02:36
Who the hell does Hodgson think he is getting involved as to where his potential England players should play their club football?

I remember in the 1986 World Cup when the pundits where asked for their views on how Lineker would adapt to playing for Barcelona, managed by the over-rated cockney wideboy Venables.

Good old Laurie McMeneny jumped in and stopped the discussion saying that this was not honourable to discuss a player who was under contract for another three years at another club, in this case Everton FC.

Hodgson should learn to keep his mouth shut. It seems he wants all his players at a handful of so-called elite clubs to save himself time in selecting his teams.

Steve Cotton
276 Posted 25/07/2015 at 12:02:39
While this goes on, can anyone see Stonesy going into tackles and headers 100% knowing that he could injure himself and therefore cost himself 120k a week when he moves? But with just two recognised CBs, he has to play every game; the other two lads are back ups.

Therefore, we have an older Jags throwing himself into every challenge and a reticent John Stones with his agent probably telling him to ’take fewer risks’... The management need to sort this out and now!!!!

Al Reddish
277 Posted 25/07/2015 at 12:47:04
Hodgson's a fuckwit who considers Stones a right back when he pulls on the England shirt, a position he never plays for his club.
Bill Farmer
278 Posted 25/07/2015 at 13:15:29
In the interview I saw, Hodgson answered 'yes' to a direct question as to whether he would still consider selecting Stones if 'he was sitting on the bench at Chelsea.' Given the ever-reducing number of English players left in the top league, he could hardly answer 'No' could he?

I have never considered us Evertonians to be hyper-sensitive but this thread is beginning to change my perception!

Brent Stephens
279 Posted 25/07/2015 at 13:23:18
Bill #253 - agree. If Hodgson was responding to a direct question, he could hardly say he wouldn't play Stones; and he could hardly say "I don't want to answer that", as that would leave Stones uncertain. Unless, of course, we'd want Stones to be uncertain about his England future so that he'd decide to stay with us. In which case Hodgson would have been seen to be influencing the outcome – and then he'd get an earful from us (wouldn't he?).

Chris Gould
280 Posted 25/07/2015 at 14:05:01
Bill, he said a lot more than that. He said that he would understand how hard it would be to get into the first 11 of a top 4 side and that it wouldn't stop him selecting him.
The Echo certainly suggest that he was out of order.
Steve Fletcher
281 Posted 25/07/2015 at 14:19:28
Bill, I get your point on Everton fans' hypersensitivity (although at the moment we’ve got a lot to be sensitive about!) but I disagree with you. The direct answer to that direct question was that, as Stones is an Everton player, it’s a totally hypothetical question that he was not going to answer.

He’s been a club and international manager for a long time, he knows how the press works; he should not even have entertained discussing it.

Bill Farmer
282 Posted 25/07/2015 at 14:24:11
Chris, The England manager answered a straightforward question in an apparently honest manner. It is part of his responsibilities to interact with the media and, all in all, I think he copes well.

Those who seek to be offended will be offended whatever he might say. 'Bitters', somebody called us the other day. We certainly have thin skins over this issue.

Chris Gould
283 Posted 25/07/2015 at 14:56:57
I've never warmed to him, and personally think he should have answered more tactfully. The media are doing Chelsea's dirty work for them and Roy gave them the answers they were looking for.

Although I don't like what he said, I don't take offence. But I do think we have a right to be appalled by how we are treated by the media. I don't think that makes us bitter. I think we are proud fans who don't like to see our club pushed around.
Regardless, I guess this thread is getting rather tiresome now.

Oliver Molloy
284 Posted 25/07/2015 at 23:00:15
Well, let’s hope he right this time round, Colin, not that I want Stones to go anywhere, but if he is to be sold, let the auction begin!

Set a deadline and a minimum price of £35million and see how what’s happened,

There has to be a deadline, we can not let this drag on.

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