Time for a big reality check

Given the state of our squad, the lack of structure, commitment, heart – we need someone who can hit the ground running and ruffle the feathers. Not some fancy foreign manager who doesn't get the pace of the Premier League. Pep didn't have the best season last year while he adapted to the style of the Prem, even with the squad at city. We don't have the luxury of time, we need points before January.

Those saying his style is crap, are you really enjoying the current performances?!! Those saying he is corrupt, you ever watched a game on Kodi or Mobdro? Ever done some cash in hand work? Everyone is guilty of trying to get things on the cheap/free to improve their lifestyle. He who is without sin cast the first stone etc.

There's no guarantee he'd accomplish what some folks say he would, and we need someone who can both steady the ship, with discipline and organisation, and get us scoring goals.

On the moral issues, don't make me laugh. Druggies, jailbirds and drunken drivers who pay prozzies for a threesome (Captain BTW!!) are all employed by the club.

Welcome, Sam. Come and save us from certain relegation.

Those saying his record is mediocre / patchy should look at the clubs / resources at which he has achieved that. Mediocre was an improvement on what they had before in the majority of cases.

To those taking the moral high ground as a case against Allardyce, what about Rooney's various drink-driving / drugs / paid services? (A point made by Kevin Tully on another thread yesterday). Alleged corruption never put anyone's life at risk unlike the latter.

My main concern in all of this is that it has highlighted how shambolic a board we have at EFC. Disjointed thinking, lousy communication, a proxy spokesman on Sky, and a recruitment policy that McDonalds would find laughable.

The end result is the cannon fodder / half-arsed bunch of wet farts out on the pitch.

Get Allardyce in to sort it out BEFORE the West Ham game – and preferably today.

This is a relegation side. It is a question of seeking the best available remedy based on history. No other candidate has Allardyce's record of keeping clubs up. Of course, he may fail but that logic would preclude the hiring of a very successful trophy-winning manager on the basis that, sooner or later, he's bound to come unstuck.

We have to calculate the risks as best we can. I happen to think that Allardyce will do much better than people think (if he's given support) but the case for him as the best option to avoid the relegation of this truly woeful team is overwhelming.

At no point in the last 15 years did I expect that Everton FC would turn to Sam Allardyce to provide a solution to the issues we've had on the pitch during some of the lowest points of those years.

We have now officially joined the band of once famous yet currently non-elite clubs. Sam has managed Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland and Palace, he is probably best remembered at Bolton where he had some success but that was world's away from today's Premier League environment.

The appointment of Sam if it happens will say more about Everton FC than it does about the man himself, it tells me that the ambition of the owner and board is not to join the elite but merely to preserve the clubs place in the Money League.

We can all celebrate later in the season if we hang on to our status, but the hangover wil be long and painful and any dreams we may have harboured about a golden dawn will have disappeared as quickly as Moshiri's cash into his pet project.

Am I angry? No. Am I sad? Very.

Beware

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/11/28/everton-should-beware-of-the-curse-of-sam-allardyce/

However, I read your words with an open mind and respect for opinions. If it's Sam who comes in then we have to live with it and hope. He may even surprise us all if he is given cash to spend and leave us with our tails between our legs.

One thing is for sure though, he will be too smart for his clueless bosses and will dictate terms to them as he knows he has nothing to lose.

"We have now officially joined the band of once famous yet currently non-elite clubs."

where have you been for the last 20 odd years?!!! We haven't been an elite club since the 80s. Seriously, some of our fans need to take off the blue tinted glasses and take a long hard look at our club.

in our last 11 Premier Legue games, 8 points, 27 goals conceded. If it carries on, that's 18 more points in the next 25 games. That is pure and simple relegation form, no ways around it.

The squad is terrible, too old at the back, nothing up front. All this crap about being 6 points of 8th etc etc, wake up! Where can you honestly see this team getting 6 points from in its current state?

The lack of a striker isn't the main problem, the serious concern is conceding 2.5 goals per game. Our defence is awful, and looks completely unorganised. 1st priority is organise the back and then build from there.

All this progressive manger crap is getting boring. Football is a simple game – score more than the opposition to win and try not to concede. If we stop conceding, we will start picking up points.

We forget so quickly, dire performances from Moyes teams, mind numbing performances from Martinez teams and I actually cannot remember a match I enjoyed watching under Koeman's reign. Also remember the gut wrenching capitulations we endured under all three to the RS, I mean shameful displays.

If you object to Allardyce on a purely footballing stylistic appeal then my friends all I have seen this season under Koeman and Unsworth is our goalkeeper launching the ball into the stratosphere to an absent front line.

If it is a moral objection I refer you to Kevin's rebuttal.

Make no mistake Allardyce has already analysed the gaps and will plug them in January but until then his main focus will be clean sheets. Nothing else, clean sheets. If he can stabilise us into the top ten then we might see some relaxing on this focus and with a bit of luck Coleman and Bolasie back.

At this time we need someone with experience who will not panic because this is possibly the most lacking Everton team (I am not saying talentless but it is close) I have ever seen in all departments.

Defenders who cannot defend, a midfield with no creativity and a goal threat resting on a guy who was a castaway.

List 1-11 and if you were our manager out of our current available squad who would you would have in your team?

For me it would be only 2 players, Sigurdsson (has talent) and Niasse (has guts) – that is the shit we are in.

For any of his faults Allardyce has a reputation of a relegation saviour and that itself may inspire some player reaction and respect from opposing teams because at the moment we are an utter shambles and a joke.

Allardyce might not be fashionable, he might not be palatable (to some) but he might just be what we need.

Listening to some of the shite from posters on about our motto, principles, School Of Science etc etc it makes me wonder where they come from.

The 63 team was my personal favourite and School of Science. We didn't really have any more School of Science until 1970. Then a bit more mid 80's. Reading some of the shit on here you'd think we played School of Science season after season.

As regards principles, well my first look in at that was Johnny Carey and his taxi. We can go on and on about that and other things over the years as well as Limpar's cheating so let's not even go to the involvement of our Friend of the Club and Knight of the Realm.

A few are still maintaining 2 wins puts us mid-table and we are over reacting. Now we have supporters refusing to support us if we sign Allardyce. I'll let you know how that goes after the next 2 home games.

Let's be honest, in a perfect world' Allardyce wouldn't be quoted; unfortunately due to gross mismanagement by those who should know better, we are deep in the shit. We have to give ourselves the best possible chance to go into the last game of the season safe. That's all. nothing else, no fancy football, no FA Cup distractions, very simple, Premier League survival.

If Allardyce is the answer to our survival then that's who we need. We certainly do not need foreign managers who have achieved absolutely nothing like this Fonseca guy.

Once the team and Club are stable then we can revisit all this stuff. Until then folks get real and accept where we are.

I too have paid to watch us play plenty of rubbish football during the last 20 years but I always retained the hope that the club could rise to the occasion given a good striker, more money or whatever it was that we were lacking in any given season.

I remember 2005-06 which was similar to this in terms of results and whilst I may have wanted Moyes to be replaced at some juncture I didn't want him to be replaced by Big Sam despite his Bolton team being in the top six.

I'm under no illusions about the dangers that Everton 2017 face but nobody can guarantee that Big Sam will save us, what happens if the players don't respond to his methods, if they can't carry out his magical plan?

John (#9),

I have read most if not all of your posts on this topic, and I get your points but how do you know that a foreign coach can't cope with the demands of the Premier League? Why must it be a UK based manager who has all of the answers to our current plight?

I don't know which manager will be the right one for Everton FC in the short or long term and I'm glad I don't have to choose, however, if Allardyce is chosen so be it, but I won't be dancing in the street about it – that's all.

A big Blue and a good man. I have been in his company a couple of times and what you see is what you get.

Plain to see he loves the club. It's horrible to see what's happening to him. The sooner he is out of it the better.

My argument is not with foreign coaches coming to us in the future, in more stable times, I just cannot see any foreign coach coming to us right now in our present predicament.

Any coach be it foreign or home grown, whether it be Allardyce or Guardiola will have an enormous task to turn our season around and avoid a relegation scrap.

What I will say is that, in my opinion, someone like Allardyce would give us a much better chance of survival.

Some of the foreign coaches mentioned over the last few weeks have been laughable at this time.

Some are presently employed and doing well, some out of work. Can you really see Tuchel or Fonseca, young up and coming guys coming here, no experience of the Premier League, maybe some language issues, never been in a relegation issue before and most importantly having no knowledge of the dross he has to work for and with.

No issues at all with foreign coaches Lawrence but right now not with a barge pole. Right now, boring, negative management that gives us the best chance of survival – to me, that is all that counts.

1: You have got to look at the state of clubs when Big Sam leaves or was sacked:

Sunderland – relegated following season, so he really only stemmed the tide temporarily, he didn't do anything to shore up long term future.

Crystal Palace – he kept up, but back again in same position.

Blackburn – club got relegated following season.

Newcastle – the same.

2: The man does not plan for the future. I would rather the club had a longer term plan, aiming for a coach eager to get us back on European stage, playing a decent style of football and something to be excited about attending Goodison Park for. The risk is relegation.

Instead with Big Sam, we will get journeymen performances, slogging hard to battle to a win, even if we got out of bottom 3 and stayed there for season – the disgruntlement will continue and he would be out before following season completed. In my view we would be in much worse state on that day, that someone coming in now.

Anyway, I don't understand if they have sounded out Silva, why he cant just resign and quit – Club cant force him to stay, and then compensation can be agreed later.

Joe Duffin – I think you are missing the point with what Allardyce did for Sunderland. He stopped them going down but then Sunderland appointed Moyes who hadn't a clue so they then went down.

He did his job and it's not his fault that the club then made a bad appointment.

The Allardyce appointment highlights the mess we are in if he gets the job. A mess he didn't create, it was created by previous managers and this was the same with the other clubs he managed to save from relegation.

If he saves us from going down maybe he deserves the chance to show what he can do for a longer period.

Whoever gets the job needs to get us organised and needs to pick a balanced team and stick to it. It is the constant changing of the team that has taken away all the cohesion of the team causing players loss of form and I am surprised that Unsworth did not recognise this. And that 3 at the back nonsense has caused us massive problems.

I know what you are saying – but a decent manager, would (a) not leave the club without completing the job (or being fired whilst trying to), or (b) would leave the team in a better state than they picked up.

Yes, he stopped relegation, but was the team any better the following season. Same for the Blackburn and Newcastle situations.

You could argue he did his job, but the analogy I would use is: He is a decorator coming into to tart up a house with structural problems. By choosing to focus on the "here and now", it doesn't address the root issues – in part temporarily presenting the house as nothing more than a veneer of a crumbling wreck.

And whilst I am on the analogy – he would probably have it in gaudy colour scheme and mix of period styles – eg, not to majority of people's tastes.

I don't like the man, I don't think he is befitting of our club and my money would be – if he gets the job, he will be out of it in a year anyway – leaving much the richer. (You may argue, he would be worth it if we stay up.)

Using your logic Man Utd's demise was caused by Ferguson and not Moyes when he took charge of Man Utd and when we won the cup in 95 it wasn't because of Joe Royle but because of Mike Walkers groundwork previously!

I am no particular fan of Allardyce but I can see the position we are in and think his appointment would be better than most of the names mentioned, especially the foreign ones who are clueless as to what needs to be done in a Premier League relegation battle.

Probably to annoy you and a lot of other people further I would prefer O'Neill, Pullis and Dyche in preference to Allardyce but that's my opinion.

Regarding O'Neill, Pulis or Dyche, I would gladly accept any of 3 as long as you are talking about Michael O'Neill and not Martin.

But hopefully we shall know shortly - ideally being announced before game tomorrow night (these things generally give a boost to the team).

The fact that we have 3 good left backs either on loan or not registered for the Premier League is a disgrace and not only Koeman should carry the can for this but all the way to the top.

Utter shambles Mr Kenwright you should be ashamed of yourself!

Main culprits were our present CB and LB. who have not progressed in that dept. in the interim.

Martinez had faults but wellying was not one of them.

The last time I remember us playing good football was Martinez's first season. Sam football won't match that style. However, we stand a better chance of staying in the Premier League and regroup for next season. I'm not a Sam fan but reality has really kicked in for me.

The idea that he saves a club and then somehow sows the seeds of their future demise. Sunderland's demise was sown by the inadequate custodians of the club, same with Newcastle.

What's gone on inside Goodison Park and Finch Farm the last 18 months the flies on the wall will know. The club reeks and this permanent stench must be cleared and it will take years.

One day at a time and let's get a win tomorrow, unite and embrace who ever is the new EFC manager.

Surely this is the lowest ebb ever in EFC's history and the club will learn?

I can see these knobheads getting ready privately to celebrate if things go wrong for Allardyce, and fuck the consequences for the club. They will be twitching to have a go at him and will by their very actions help to condemn us if they behave like that.

That's the real disgrace in all of this : the precious, self-indulgent, destructive codswallop which a significant number on here keep parroting.

One of my mates is a season ticket holder at West Ham and he said that they played some great stuff under Big Sam after he got them promoted on a shoestring budget.

If he can eventually get us into the top 6 of the Premier League like he did with Bolton then I will be made up.

The group collectively decide there is no way out. What lies outside the car is the end of life on earth as they know, or could ever possibly imagine, it. Suicide is the only option. Luckily they have a gun, but...fucking typical only four bullets. The defacto leader does 'the decent thing' and shoots the other four (including his own 8 year old son) dead in a selfless act of mercy. Sobbing, he steps out the car to await his slow, agonising fate. About a minute later the strange mist suddenly starts to recede and the military arrive mob handed with tanks, monster-fucking flamethrowers and (probably) a public service message about keeping your tampon in for just a moment longer.

Evertonians should know better than most that a piss poor start to, or even a full shitty first half of, a season doesn't consign you to crashing out of this league. We endured a few like this under Moyes and again under Martinez. Each occasion being loudly heralded as 'the worst I've ever known', declarations that we're 'defo' going down and even people on here piping up with the fact they had put a fucking bet on Everton getting relegated as though it would be some sort of perverse compo.

Yes, we're in dire straits right now, don't look like we can buy a clean sheet, have seen confidence utterly sapped and can't let the situation drag on too much longer, but this mess can be turned round and the managerial talent pool surely hasn't reduced to such a massive degree that there's only one damn fella on earth who can do it.

This whole managerial 'search' has been absolutely farcical and shows similar foresight and forward planning as our summer recruitment strategy. No clear vision of what end goal the club are actually working toward or which individual(s) would be best suited to bring it about, but rather a seemingly scattergun approach based on the stretched to breaking point criteria of "some c**t who will come".

Martin O'Neill and Sam Allardyce? Seriously? It's like we've leapt back in time eleven years.

If you declare you're going to impress somebody by preparing a meal fit for the top table...perhaps a juicy Beef Wellington...but completely bollocks it up, you surely need a better back up plan than simply whacking on a Vesta Chow Mein and saying "well, there's a chance you might just survive".

It never took Allardyce 8 games to 'sort out' Sunderland. It took 8 games just to get his first win, but that was immediately followed by a 4-0 hammering, at home, against relegation rivals Sunderland and another defeat at the hands of Stoke.

They then had a great run of 6 wins in eight games. A two month period that was absolutely crucial in keeping them up, but their improved form didn't last long and they very nearly threw their good work away by slumping to 4 defeats in the last 5 games of the run in. Without that one win (against a woeful on the day Hull) they would have been wankered.

Allardyce then walked away, declaring he had looked deep within himself and knew he could no longer offer the 24hr day to day dedication necessary to do the job at the top level.

So, what's changed if, by his own admission, he could no longer guarantee putting in the required graft just six months ago?

Is he suddenly re-energised after a brief break and now ready to work more furiously than a fluffer on a midget porn set to get a stumped Premier League outfit on the rise again? Or, have his eyes just popped out his head Wile E Coyote style at the prospect of wangling a plum position and a pocket full of coin?

To get this club back on sure footing we need someone who is going to live, breathe and possibly get banned from bedroom duties because of it. Is 'Big' Sam likely to be that man after openly backing away from the game to laze about in his skiddies?

Whilst, personally, I would never 'stay away' over his appointment, I desperately hoped the club could swerve the 'one last hope' sales pitch being lapped up by some. Not because the man has long been dogged by accusations of loving a sweetener, or because he's British and looks a bit like Biffa Bacon's mum. Rather, it's because our squad appears utterly bereft of the sort of players required to play his particular brand of percentage football, he never looks to build anything sustainable and his party trick of always pulling teams out the shite has slowly suffered under the law of diminishing returns each time he's reemerged to dice with death.

Those pointing to past clubs sinking like a stone once Sam jumps ship and proclaiming it only positive proof of his ability have surely got to recognise there is a possible flipside to that coin? The man looks to build nothing but short-term momentum, with teams set up in such a way that, once he's removed from the equation, any successor has to either try to replicate exactly what he's done or, inevitably, watch results falter as they seek to move away from his limited last resort methods, with a squad of rapidly assembled grocks hand picked because they can run, jump and are the 'right height'.

Sometimes, the potency of his approach doesn't even persist until he's pissed off. At West Ham he only won 3 of his last 21 games in charge. At Sunderland 4 out of 17. As mentioned earlier, Palace's form petered out with 1 win out of 5.

Whatever the arguments for and against his appointment, if he does end up here (as is looking increasingly likely) then we really have no choice but to throw our full support behind the man, irrespective of any doubts or personal distaste. I've never hoped to see any Everton manager fail (even if most have) and I sure as hell don't intend to start now.

Going off past proclamations, I guess the man himself won't be wracked by even a slither of self doubt:

"I'm not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Internazionale or Real Madrid. It wouldn't be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the Double or the league every time. Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn't be a problem. It's not where I'm suited to, it's just where I've been for most of the time. It's not a problem to take me into the higher reaches of the Champions League or Premier League and would make my job a lot easier in winning it."

""I don't think there is any coach more sophisticated than me any more, that's not trying to criticise any other coaches. But there is only Arsene Wenger who has done it longer than me. I'm just as good as everybody at this stage"

"You may want to finish on a buzz word that the whole team has agreed on and can shout out to encourage a feeling of togetherness. Something like “Let's go for it” or “let's get ‘em” should give them that last bit of motivation before kick-off"

(Err...probably going to have to do better than that last one Allardyce, you arl dinosaur. With our lads, the 'shout' would probably be something along the lines of "An hour and a half until home time!! Commmmmme onnnnnnnn!!!!").

John - "To get this club back on sure footing we need someone who is going to live, breathe and possibly get banned from bedroom duties because of it. Is 'Big' Sam likely to be that man after openly backing away from the game to laze about in his skiddies?".

I must admit the first time I read that I misread "bedroom" for "boardroom". Either way I agree with the sentiment and to answer your question – and I mean this – life is full of surprises; I'm tipping he is.

Although, for Everton supporters, surprises these day seem strictly limited to the stomach wrenching, squishy, sort you might receive after stamping down on a fat bundle of flaming newspaper some bad scrote has shoved through your letterbox, and 'getting lucky' amounts to the shite mercifully stopping at your ankles rather than shooting straight up your leg.

The debate rages on – I must say I am surprised at the extent of some of the vitriol on the other threads if not the division.

Like many I want to be right – but it is because I love the club. I really hope Sam Allardyce lives up to my expectations which is that he restores our pride as a football club.

You can rest assured if I am proved wrong I will admit it and hold my hands up.

But wouldn't it be terrific if I was right. You can also rest assured I won't be pulling the "I told you so". folder out. I'll just enjoy it like the rest of the Blues.

We have got to get some "blueness" soaking through his pores – that'll be the catalyst that will do the trick.