Where do we go from here?

I can get the need not to go totally kneejerk, in the manner of Clubs that have had 12 managers in a decade with one season to go. But while mid-table might tick all the KPIs for this century, many will remember the last Century where nobody much liked Gordon Lee and 3rd was abject failure... he'd be a hero now.

Then we have the cry that it's not the managers fault, its the players, they're not arsed, once they go across the white line, they're all too rich, Gold Bentley etc.

Breaking news...All the players are too rich...even the poor ones, didn't stop Norwich and Watford this weekend?

Man City then, their players are definately too rich, yet they seemed to do it every week, not a one-off new manager bounce like Watford.

So it IS the managers fault then, I always knew that Pep was shite, we should've gone for Arteta, he's the real brains behind him... on it goes, round and round.

As always with The Ev, more questions than answers - twas ever thus.

Kenwright was happy with staying in the Premier League, 10th-ish was (and maybe still is) the bench mark. Oh, if you can have a go at the 'best of the rest' trophy and the odd cup run, well fairplay to you.

Moshiri will be happy with building the stadium and cashing in via a sell on to 'some other fool' (Google that principle).

It could be that what kept Kenwright happy will keep Moshiri happy and if he happens to hit the right on-field combo, then what's not to like.

8 years on say and the new stadium gloss has worn off, we'll still be having the same conversations.

Rant cum ramble there. Short version: we have to hope we get lucky and it somehow gells, because Silva hasn't a clue and Moshiri's not really arsed either way.

I wanted us to sign Diego Costa for now, not just an up and coming prospect who might be the bollocks in three years. I wanted the often psychotic striker with an absolute killer instinct to lead the line and terrorise defences. That is the major ingredient that is missing, that and a centre half.

You watch man City and Liverpool, Aguero, Mane or Salah get a chance and it's a goal: Calvert-Lewin gets a chance and it's a goal kick. I'm not one for criticising Calvert-Lewin for lacking the will to be Cavani, I'm simply stating he is limited.

I feel it will take another couple of windows to be able to judge and all the panicking and demands for Silva's head is infantile, even more so those who think Mourinho will magically turn things around. This season will be inconsistent and upper mid-table will be our domain, hopefully with a decent cup run. The shite will, in all probability, stroll the league and we will need to build steadily and replace the accumulated dross with quality.

For all the “we're all doomed” merchants, have a little think before posting, walk around the block or have a cup of tea before posting.

You sum up perfectly how I feel at the moment with Everton. The club has been run like a corner shop for years.

I go home and away with Everton but to be honest I'm finding it very hard to like the club at the moment.

However I've just ordered my Burnley ticket so I'm just clinging on to the hope that it will come good for us soon. But I have been clinging onto that hope for 30 odd years.

Throughout my lifetime, the club has been riddled with complacency. 1970, 'the start of five great years for Everton', ended abruptly after the one title win and the double knockout in four days. 1987, Kendall leaves, we could have thought big, but we tried to copy the Liverpool 'continuity' by giving the job to Harvey, who didn't want it, but took it out of duty. The great Colin was close, but lacked the presence to sort the old/new rift in the team.

Johnson, in my view, didn't realise how much money it would take to make us really successful. When he did, he was off.

The Kenwright/Moyes axis reinvented Everton as the plucky underdog, for whom success was surviving/staying up/hitting Europe. When we had that wonderful season where hard work and randomness got us fourth, did we kick on? No, we bought Phil Neville. I'll never forget that Villareal game, where it dawned on everyone around me that he was a good quality water-carrier, nothing more. And if our team was going to be built round him, it wouldn't end well.

As for Moshiri, you can't fault him for trying. He backs his managers financially, but as I often said during the Moyes era, its not about money, its about the mindset throughout the club, it's about quality recruitment at al levels. Moshiri has made very costly mistakes.

Will he get it right? Who knows? Brands was a good appointment who has bought good players. Sure he hasn't got the world class striker yet, but then some of us maintained it would be difficult to replace the much-criticised striker who scored goals for fun.

Silva? I'm not sure. He's running a fitfully good team that's mentally very weak and often looks disjointed with parts of the team isolated. Good enough to get enough points for 7th/8th, but beyond that? We'll see.

One things certain, Darren. We'll keep going, cheering, criticising, arguing. Because we love it!

The present manager's team reflects Silva's own personality he's weak, but a charmer, the team flatter to deceive a good result here and there but there's no real substance, Silva lacks the character and discipline to be a success.

Our expectations have been lowered over the past decades and the fight has been knocked right out of us. I mistakenly went to Mathew Street on Saturday for a drink, never again.

I'd forgotten the RS were at home they were out in force, they sit back arrogantly watching their team, demanding success and getting it. We are a world away from that, it was like being on another planet.

The whole post smacks of ingratitude and I personally am very grateful that Moshiri has sunk a great deal of his personal fortune in to Everton and I've liked the style in which he's done it. One small example being buying the Liver Building and lighting it up blue at Xmas.

He's corrected his mistakes (Koeman) which he has every right to make because they are at his personal expense.

His association with Everton has cost him a fortune and he shows no sign of abating – more power to him. I hope he achieves everything he wants for Everton and himself.

If you really think there is a manager out there who could get us into the top 4 and keep us there then I admire your optimism. If anything the battle may be to stay where we are as more and more clubs can match out mid-table spending powers.

Where do we go from here? Likely nowhere. Likely we battle to stay around the 6th-9th mark; maybe having the odd good season where we hit 5th (maybe even 4th) and the odd season where we come 10th-15th. Perhaps we may get to a final and even win a cup one day.

But, for the most part it's going to be more of the same unless something truly remarkable and unlikely happens.

Oh and Moyes does not belong on the same list as the 'duds'. Unlike the others he considerably improved our standing in the league and left us with a markedly better team than when he arrived; even if he failed to deliver silverware.

Getting beat by Aston Villa and Bournemouth. even the home form ain't all that, scraping past Wolves and Watford who are both stinking the place out at the moment.

We've been shocking right through pre-season too. I think if Keane continues with this nose-dive, we could have major problems in a few weeks.

Luck also matters, of course. Things just change for the better on occasions, and there's no rhyme or reason. But Sunday was so dreadful that I'm still annoyed by it. I suspect we all are.

The answer to the question posed is simple to me: We keep trying and we support the manager and team in what they are trying to achieve.

His error was in trusting so-called professionals to spend his money wisely and he was hugely let down. They were quickly dispensed with albeit at a huge cost.

At the last AGM, he stated that 6th place wasn't a good enough return for the investment he'd made. Silva must show marked improvement, by the turn of the year, or he will be dispensed with.

Tony #12, I'm more than annoyed by last Sunday. The performance on the pitch, and from the manager, was, not for the first time, totally unacceptable.

Shift him further forward at Left-Wing and put Baines or Delph at Left-Back.

We also have very little down our right flank and nothing through the middle, that needs to be addressed big time.

Word to the wise Blues: the next Tim Cahill in the making plays for Nottm Forest in the Championship. Watch out for him okay... Joe Lolly – cracking little player, has got the lot imo.

You mention Kendall but the achievements and stories of great characters like him and Brian Clough are now a thing of the past. It's just money, money, money now.

Call me a Luddite but I'd love to wind the clock back, abolish the Premier League and it's greed and TV deals and, better still, can the Champions League, that gravy train which makes the rich richer and widens the gap between Top 4 and The Rest – making football dull and predictable. Football needs a rethink.

I know in American Football the Patriots always seem to win but in reality the way the system is set up (with first pick of new players going to the weakest teams) adds a twist that we badly need with English football too. Else I will be switching off soon and not wasting my money like I did on Sunday.

They got lucky in the 1980s with minimal investment and very little attention to building a big business to support the team. They tried to repeat the trick for the next 20 years, with one notable success in '95 but overall lacking the extra 10% to get us to the top of the league – or even the top half in some seasons.

Moshiri shouldn't be spoken of in the same way. He IS building a business. Likewise, Brands is building the foundations for a top-class first team, long term. There will be more disappointments along the way, we still lack in several areas but I think Silva is making progress.

We still haven't got that belief we will win but that isn't easy to get – we saw some last week, this week we did well apart from defensive mistakes. 3 weeks ago, we couldn't score. 6th by Christmas.

However, I don't agree that Moshiri has somehow also been tainted by this acceptance of mediocrity – far from it. Every time I look at Everton now, I am reminded of Man City in the early days. It took them several iterations (Santa Cruz, Wright-Phillips, Bridge, even Mark Hughes as manager ffs!) to get where they are now.

As long as we improve the squad year on year, there's always a chance that things may turn. Of course, it also depends on constant funding, coaching and luck. Not sure about the depth of Moshiri's pockets, the quality of Marco Silva as a coach / manager, and the precariousness of fortune but I'm prepared to watch what happens over the next few seasons.

I so dearly want to see us win something again. In my 58 years, of attending I've seen 4 league titles, three FA Cups and a European Cup Winners Cup – my son and daughter have seen 1 measly FA Cup and that was 24 seasons ago. I can't help feeling though that a dramatic upturn in our fortunes hinges on the completion of the new stadium.

I thought we were firmly on the up. The last few months of last season were very encouraging. I think the problems we have now are stemming from the summer transfer window.

We needed Zouma, we were looking very solid, him and Keane were forming a top 4 level partnership. Loads of clean sheets and a tight defence. Additionally, I think that Seamus needs replacing with 'Digne level' quality. All his heart and desire is still there but I think he is only 90% of what he was in his prime. It is enough to become a weak[ish] link. If you haven't got good foundations, the rest of your house will start to crack.

We put all our eggs in the Zouma basket and it has impacted our season for the worse. Scratching around with 48 hours to go for Man Utd's 5th choice defenders was a lazy abject embarrassment for the club. We will struggle defensively again all season as a result.

We were winning games and keeping clean sheets last season with the same strike force, now we have Moise Kean as well. So whilst I think we are still needing a top-class forward to break into the top 6 permanently, I think that the critical problems we have all stem from defensive frailty. Caused by a glaring failure to address this in the summer.

It may not be so prevalent in a competition where there is relegation but how then do relegated teams get higher paid players off the books and get some sort of compensation/transfer fee under that system?

I agree, we've been on a steady decline since the early '70s despite a spike in the mid '70s and '80s. Bad management, a lack of ambition, and falling standards has seen this once great club become a rudderless ship.

Moshiri seems a well-intentioned guy but I think once he's built his new stadium he'll be back in his Monaco tax exile before you can say, Shazam!

We'll probably get bought by Mike Ashley and be rebranded Sportsdirect FC before he sells us to some local “millionaire” for a tenner. It's fucking tough being an Evertonian.

To the pub / bar, to dull the pain.

Two chances against Villa and Bournemouth to go third blown. Really says it all.

Drink please!

You don't develop the kind of away "records" that we own (we all know the ones) without something being deeply wrong. And these things are very difficult to change and it's deeper than just getting yet another new face from a mid-table side in the dugout and a new wide man.

On an immediate level, 6 wins out of 41 away, or whatever it is, is clearly not good enough. Losing 14 and drawing 3 of the last 17 games when conceding first – if accurate – is pathetic. It's got to the point that if we are away and we concede then I pretty much know that's it. And the players will know it as well, as it's become routine. So clearly something isn't right. Something is wrong and it's deep seated.

On a broader level, let's take the Anfield derby record. It's a complete embarrassment and, I try to never use the following word as it's the standard word in football for just about everything, bit it IS a disgrace.

The entire club has a complex about Liverpool FC in general and playing there specifically. Its crippled by it from top to bottom. I've heard Lukaku and Phil Neville say things along the lines that people at the club turn it into such a big thing and bang on about it so much that it became unpleasant. Meanwhile, they just turn up and swot us aside as if we're a minor irritant.

Pickford made an extremely revealing comment after last season's Anfield derby, the one where he gifted them the 3 points. He said, "Its the Everton luck at Anfield." No it's not. It's nothing to do with that. You screwed up, made a mistake and gifted them the 3 points. The Everton "luck" at Anfield generally involves turning up, folding like a deck chair, being awful and getting beat. A failure to even lay a glove on 10 men twice in close succession confirmed that for me. They are dead on arrival.

But the point is that people at the club, be it football or non footballing staff, or both, is telling Pickford that that most definitely IS the Everton luck at Anfield. That we will never get anything. Because we just never get any luck. That's the kind of messages the players get. It's a joke. The semi-final surrender, against a Liverpool side with Jay Spearing in midfield, told you everything you need to know.

These things are deep rooted, cultural and take years to change. On the pitch we clearly need an nark or two. Leaders that will basically crack the whip in the dressing room and on the pitch. As for the gaffer, I think Silva is a decent manager. But I doubt that he is the is the man to bring about the kind of systemic change that's required to achieve what we want to see.

So, who is the transformative figure? I'm going to float the idea that, even though he's arguably on the downside, if there's even a chance we could get Jose then we should go for it. We are the kind of underdog club he's best at. He would hit the place like a truck and bring an arrogance and mentality the place hasn't seen for decades. And that, in my eyes, we badly need. The club and all its employees need shaking out of the "nice little Everton" cul-de-sac it has walked itself – itself by the way, no one else did this Heysel obsessives – into.

The fella in the dug out is the most important man at any club. It's time we got one in with a track record. Taking never has beens, from non-entity clubs, won't provide the club with the slapping about it clearly needs.

Comments above and on other threads allude to various former employees suggesting "there's something about the club that isn't quite right" (to all but quote Moyes).

Well, if they're surmising it's some kind of Voodoo curse, I'm not having it. Our club comprises actual people with actual responsibilities for their decisions. Our club, post Moores, has been led by inadequates in charge of the boardroom so is it now any wonder that we continue to tweedle-dee to mediocrity, again, and again, and again.

As employees at the time most of those associated with the above type of quote were unlikely to name WHO was "not quite right" because to do so would've got them a P45 or its equivalent.

And no, I've no evidence as we know it, but the decades-long miasma coincides with only one tosser's "input" throughout. To me, you don't need to be Sherlock to discern a causative link.

Has Nicholas finished with his client yet?

You're absolutely right, though, we probably need a Shankly or Ferguson equivalent; the task is that big, and the floppy, “we're all one big lovely family” schmaltz is so ingrained.

Not many Bills and Alexes out there. In the meantime, I pray that Silva can astonish us.

The 11 years at Everton will be the highlight for David Moyes, his record since then proves it. There is a lot more competition for a top 4-6th place now and I just can't see Marco Silva and this weak unbalanced squad achieving it. I want to be wrong.

"Jose"

No. Just no.

When you submit an article to a website like this you kinda have a good idea of what counter arguments are going to come back. Every now and again you will be thrown a slight curve ball you didn't expect, but you guys have completely stumped me. . . "Ingratitude"?

I promised myself I would leave the comments on this thread to others... but I've gorra ask; Who is it that you guys feel I (or any other Evertonian) should be grateful to?

Philip Carter??? He's the guy who famously told startled dinner guest that there was no need to put a second tier on Park End stand because it was "too good for them" – He was talking about You... us.

He was instrumental in bringing about the advent of the big five, at a time when he must have known we were hopelessly unprepared... and don't get me started about his sycophantic support of Maggie Thatcher when we were getting kicked out of Europe.

Maybe you talking about Bill Kenwright? The guy who lied to us about the Kings Dock, tried to take us to Kirkby and sold his shares for a jaw-dropping profit? Yeah, Thanks, Bill.

Maybe you mean David Moyes? Yeah he brought us to a dizzy "respectability", but this is the guy who was publicly advocating a 20% drop in salary for everyone in football, whilst stalling on a contract in order to squeeze every penny out of the club. It wasn't enough that he was secretly plotting his escape route whilst enjoying incredible support. He then went on to totally disrespect our club by offering a pittance for our two most desirable players.

Martinez squeezed every penny out of a club who gave him a shot at the big time. Allardyce screwed a panicking Moshiri into the ground by insisting on getting a longer contract than he wanted to give him. Koeman and Walsh spent money like drunken sailors without regard for who it was they were actually signing...

That brings me to Moshiri – the guy who oversaw and sanctioned some of the most ridiculous transfers this club has ever been involved in. Not only has he allowed the managers he appointed to foolishly spend the 𧶀m plus we received for players like Stones, Lukaku, Gana. Lookman etc. He's allowed the to blow the Sky money too.
Taking wages into account we have spent over 𧹈M on players on Moshiri's watch... and we have seen no tangible sign of improvement? Everywhere we go, we are taunted for having spent so much to achieve so little... why on earth should any Evertonian be grateful for that?

I'll show Moshiri Gratitude when he earns it. Not because he bought the Liver buildings, that does nothing for the team, besides, He is the one who will make the inevitable killing on that deal. Neither am I grateful that he bought the club for exactly the same reason. Does anyone really believe he will be the one who bucks the trend by being out of pocket when he finally leaves?

We have to stop this "being grateful" lark. When we are talking about those mentioned above, we have absolutely nothing to be grateful for. They've taken plenty, but they have given less than nothing in return.
Make no mistake. Theirs is the debt. They are wealthy beyond their wildest. They are the ones who should all be down on their knees every day giving thanks.

Ungrateful? … I sincerely hope so!!!

I have to disagree with you about the European ban, it was a crushing blow. Howard had assembled a young fantastic team, heading for greatness. Losing Howard, who was way ahead of his time, and some of our top players, brought us back to mediocrity, as Colin was out of his depth.

As for Moyes, I believe he did a brilliant job, he inherited an old age pensioner's team, destined for relegation, under Walter Smith, and got us into Europe, with little or no money.

I agree with you about Kenwright, who used Paul Gregg, a better man altogether, and then did the dirt on him. Imagine if Moyes had Moshiri at the time?

First, I can guaranfuckingtee you that he could have found far more profitable investment destinations for his money than Everton FC. Owners buy clubs because they are adventures, not ventures. Very few get rich off them. (Abramovich is supposedly out 2b on his "investment".) Ask Paul the Esk.

Second, Moshiri's only been in full charge as majority owner for one year. One. Characterizing him as "Tweedle Dumb" and a "nightmare" based on one year is just ridiculous.

He's not the one who decides what players to buy. Brands does that. Moshiri hired him to do it. You don't like what Brands does, yeah, blame Moshiri for hiring him, but don't blame him for the blowing of 27m on Cenk Tosun.

Third, you have no idea what this guy is like personally, but he has certainly never publicly come off as cocky or a clown or someone demanding to be thanked and worshipped. On the contrary, he's shown nothing but class. And for all you know, he's very grateful to upper-middle-class refugee parents and the society that gave him the opportunity to become a self-made billionaire (no inherited entitlement here).

You wanna sit up on your high horse and pass judgement on gratitude, be my guest. But go accomplish even a tiny fraction of what Moshiri has before you start calling him dumb and spouting about how he owes us. That's just pure crapola in my book.

I get you. Mourinho (I put Jose as I was on my phone and running out of gas) comes with a lot of baggage these days and it was more of a suggestion than anything.

I'd argue that our players are of the level that would buy into him completely. Putting it bluntly, if he came through the door I think they'd be made up. I don't think he is a very good man-manager at elite clubs with elite players. I think he'd have our lads running through brick walls.

The whole club needs someone that can pull it together and basically say, "Right, I'm here and I don't know what the fucks been going on previously but it stops. Now."

Someone that walks into the grounds where the players don't believe and provide that belief. That gets his players to stand up like men and have a go. If not Jose then Bielsa, or someone of that nature.

I think the malaise in the club's culture has become so deep-seated that it will take a revolutionary, or off the wall appointment (Bielsa, with the inherent risk it could go tits up) to break the cycle. Otherwise, frankly, Moshiri is just pouring his money into a black hole.

The only thing I'd say to your response, is that EFC is indeed a good investment.

Most major sports organizations make money mere mortals can only dream about.

At the end of the day, if you can push on the profit and loss statement with a team, run all your expenses through it, and then just be patient, their value almost always increases.

The fly in the ointment with European teams, is relegation. But top tier status pretty much gains you a three digit million dollar profit if you steer the ship for a decade or so.

I'd asterisk the above by saying I have an American perspective, and again, relegation is a death sentence that, no matter how remote, does make the investment inherently more risky.

Like you, I resent another big pay off, but do we tread the water of mediocrity and run down the contract? We are hopefully building a great stadium. Can building a great team go along side it?

In the bigger picture, compensation, all the money in them world to most of us, is small change. If someone said the cost of a new stadium has gone up by 㾶 million, it would be neither here nor there. To me, the money spent on a new coach is more important.

Who really knows exactly is certain to be a successful manager. From looking at most teams it is very often an unsuccessful stab in the dark. For anyone who knows more than me, just who should be the manager?

As regards Liverpool, I couldn't really care less what they do. After 70 years of watching I have been able to discard everything about them and their phoney fans from Norway to Timbuctoo.

To be jealous is to admit that you are aware that they even exist. I never read about them whether they win or lose. To Evertonians, they should remain a nonentity.

Our problems are now – not ones from 40 years ago. We gave a manager with a questionable record a job, who is not delivering, and if he can't shape up we will gave to pay him off. It's that simple.

I do have zero confidence in Silva because I've seen no evidence to suggest he's good. Three trophies in Portugal? How about 7 titles in a row, UEFA Cup Final and Champions League semi. Yes, outside the EPL Walter Smith's record makes Silva look like a clown. But we know Smith was crap so I have no faith in Silva.

I do however have faith in Brands based on not just results in Holland but the revamp of the club that drove those results. I also think some on the board — other than Bill — have their heads screwed on. But I hope we get a team to match their off-field efforts and that depends on Silva for now — and Moshiri.

I remember posting about the signings made by Walsh and Koeman. I was alarmed at the type of player we were bringing to the club. I could not see a "team" being built. The overwhelming majority on this website were just too excited to care - At long last. We (EFC) were spending money. Moshiri was a hero. .

The article was panned. You yourself poked your fun, telling me Tinkerbell was dead, because one boy (me) refused to clap. Remember, Mike ? ... I suspect that may even have been our first kiss.

That was three years ago, Mike. We cant proclaim Moshiri hero for bringing in Koeman and Walsh, for splashing the cash, then claim he has only been in charge for a year.

Moshiri has been in charge since Day One. The buck (at least the current one) stops with him.

The fact that uncle Bill is still here, is down to him.

Three managers (possibly four if he keeps his word) is down to Him.

The squandered hundreds of millions, is down to him.

Those claiming he is backing these increasingly wasteful transfer windows with his own money are sadly being taken in.

I don't care if Moshiri is a self-made billionaire. I have no interest in his life away from Everton. I only care what he has brought or brings to this club. At the moment he is looking like the latest addition to a very long line of business men who have decided to get involved in an industry they don't quite understand. You call it adventure. I call it Ego trip.

Abramovich ? He's another argument for another day

I don't agree with your claim about Moshiri only being in charge for a full year, but I will concede your point that he has only been here for a short period and should be given more time. His plans look grand enough and if he takes us to the promised land, He will deserve his return and I'll be the first to sing his praises. I'm just not ready to fall over myself expressing my gratitude just yet.

John Pierce

"Our travails are well documented".

They may well be as for as you are concerned, but we have an army of supporters who firmly believe our troubles all started about 30 years ago in Brussels. They actually think the Kopites were the ones who inflicted our wounds.

The article may have been "self-indulgent" (show me one that isn't), but it is a counter-argument to a much-trumpeted myth which has been practically force-fed to a whole generation of young blues.

The Kopites are always there to rub salt in the wounds... but somebody needs to point out that they did not inflict them, We did that all by ourselves.

You offer a rather simplistic solution for our current plight, but I personally don't think you could be any more wrong. Our situation can't be resolved by sacking the current manager if he doesn't perform (been there, done that) It is not, as you claim, "that simple". We didn't always start every season at a massive disadvantage.

We are where we are due to weak leadership and a catalogue of catastrophic decisions taken in the boardroom.

You don't think its worth questioning the past. Why we REALLY are, where we are? Fair enough, but I do.

If this club is to ever going to move forward, we need to learn from and acknowledge mistakes made in the past. We can't keep blaming forty years of weak leadership on what happened at Heysel.

Thanks for the responses guys. All of them

I doubt very much if Darren gets on ToffeeWeb for any self-indulgence, rather more that he cares passionately about the club and team, and where we are going.

I only know Darren through ToffeeWeb, never met him, but his support for Everton should be apparent to most supporters on here, even his criticism is to try and get something done at the club, instead of just plodding along in the same unsuccessful way.

I really wish we had more fans with Darren's feelings for the club.

If you persist in buying lots and lots of wingers, second strikers, you can't play them all because you need a front line striker to benefit from their skill and to receive the passes, crosses, they should provide.

Zonal marking is fraught with danger, unless your attacking players can come back and defend just outside the zone, thus stopping the opposition's attacking players getting free headers.

To be honest, I feel dusting myself down again has become the norm and I tend to hope for the occasional week with a great performance now.

I am so split on my view of the manager and still cannot decide if he is the one. I do think we have potentially a good squad now, possibly one of the best for ages, but is the passion there in management? Brands, yes. On the training pitch? No idea.

The weird thing that keeps me going is nobody expected Kendall's success.

Stay being the great fan you are. It is the blind optimism of the likes of me and the clinical analysis you sometimes bring that the club will always need.

Weird thing is that 90% of football fans across the planet are always in our position and yet interest keeps increasing.

Definition of insanity?

To offer some of my thoughts, briefly, (it's 30c and sunny here and I have a lounger and book calling me):

I thank the lord that Moshiri arrived. He has spent serious money since arriving and, despite what all the monetary experts think on here, he is not guaranteed a huge profit and if he does make one, and leaves us with a new stadium, vastly improved team, and no debt then who cares?

What do you want? A joker like Ashley or some penniless, asset stripper like the tool who oversaw Bury's demise.

He put his faith in Koeman and expected success like many on here. Koeman, though, didn't give a shit about us but trousered some serious money. So, Moshiri got that wrong just as many of us would have.

Fat Sam. I can't bring myself to mention that arse.

So, we have Silva who is Moshiri's man and under pressure already. On here, anyway.

“He'll also trouser a big pay-off”. Will he? Gosh, when were the finer points of his contract made public? I don't recall seeing them anywhere, must've passed me by. Maybe Moshiri has thought “Bollocks, there'll be no big wedge paid for failure if this guy fucks up”.

Let's not just assume Moshiri knows fuck all, eh? How many of us have his kind of success, live in Monaco and pop over to the match by private jet? Give the guy some credit. He's no fool.

Dave @47
Good thoughtful post, Dave. Fully agree.

At this point, they will either kick on or throw Silva under the bus by stopping playing for him. If they do down tools, you can add Silva to the growing list of those who tried and failed at Everton FC.

It's blatantly obvious our late transfer business and usual shoddy preseason has hurt us again. Unless we can get a proven big-name manager in who can make a difference then we stick with Silva. I wasn't one of the few who attacked Silva for his passive body language on the touchline on Sunday as its just his style. Neil Warnock chews up the technical area like Godzilla but would you have him?

Quite simply, we are just not good enough with a strike force that wouldn't trouble the Championship. It's telling our sights are getting lower: it used to break the top 4 — now it's break the top 6. Whilst over the road, the other lot cream Europe and are top of the league... it's a curse supporting this club sometimes.

Despite having supported the club for pushing 60 years for some reason the Bournemouth result made me feel very angry at first but then left me feeling almost couldn't care less. But only almost.

In my case, it is certainly true that once Everton touched me nothing was ever the same again as far as football is concerned. I have always been at least one-eyed and quite often blind, because I have always believed that “we will be great again”.

No disrespect to the good folk of Bournemouth but when I think of Bournemouth I get a mental picture of an old bloke in a deck chair, licking an ice cream, trousers rolled halfway up his shins, with a hanky on his head to stop him getting sunburnt.

So, after all those years there we were with a chance to go 3rd – and we blew it - at Bournemouth – Bloody Hell!

I haven't got any answers but there are enough people working for EFC both on and off the pitch getting paid small fortunes who should have.

I'll get over it – I always do.

The players have still not hit their stride and we are now bedding in the new signings out of necessity. Unfortunately, it may take a few more games to get us going properly... so l have to point my finger directly at Silva.

He has lwobi and Kean, and yet still persists in the same formation and tactics meaning the wingers having to track back. He has options but hasn't got it in him to try anything. Certain players seem to like him which will save him and give him time.

I'd like a manager to play to our strengths. How is putting Richarlison out wide right and making him track deep to cover doing us or him any good? I'd rather Sigurdssonplay a bit deeper and allow the wide attackers to go closer to whomever is up front.

Anyway, Silva has no excuse. Then again neither have the players. The season is young so kick on now and this will be forgotten and we can have a successful season. Scraping past Sheffield Utd and a slip up against Wednesday... l can see it before a ball has been kicked. COYB

I know we look at our players sometimes through blue-tinged specs but they ARE better quality than most outside the top four.

I sometimes think we are cursed – it's our name or something. We could be taken over by a mad sheikh, buy the Red Shite's whole squad outright, nick Klopp and build a big fucking stand and everything still struggle to 8th!

I truly despair!

Anyone!

Darren no. Don't!

We have plenty of pace and firepower up-front in Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Kean, Iwobi, Bernard and Walcott. Yet he blunts our attack by playing only one up-front because "playmaker" Siggi has to play. We need to get these guys nearer to the opposition's goal.

I keep saying go 4-3-3. Use the full-backs for width and put Gomes, Delph and Davies, Shneiderlin or Gbamin (when fit) as the midfield three. Unfortunately, I don't think Silva will. He appears to be wedded to 4-2-3-1 and I have no doubt he will persist with it even though it plainly isn't working.

It's here that Silva went downhill. Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson are good in certain situations, mainly when a team is coming at us. Schneiderlin is positionally sound and Sigurdsson flourishes in the space left between the opposition midfield and defence.

When Bournemouth scored, they defended deeper. This completely nullified anything that Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson do. Schneiderlin stays in his defensive shell without the protection of our wide midfielders who now push on for an equaliser, leaving Delph to roam midfield on his own. Sigurdsson now doesn't have this space and becomes anonymous.

When we scored, against the run of play, Bournemouth started coming at us again and we flourished as a team (Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson included). When Bournemouth scored again they sat deeper again, this is when both players should have been hauled off.

Both players are good against a team who looks to attack us when we can play a compact press. Both players are crap against a team that sits back. Hence the reason why we have looked so poor against teams like this.

Without the lack of concentration for the first and second goals, the tactics would have been spot on and I think we could have won comfortably. If we'd have scored first, they would have come at us more and played into our hands more.

When they score the second – Silva needs to adapt quicker and make decisive subs.

Why is Kenwright still there?
What does Duncan Ferguson do? Why is he foisted on every manager?

Why is Brands so highly regarded? Aside from Digne, I really don't see what he has achieved.

Silva is a disaster. Why do we have to wait before we sack him?

To summarise, whilst Kenwright is still there, we won't win anything.

I too have been through all the emotions of your brief summary of Everton over the years and largely agree with your sediments.

I posted the below on another thread, but thought it was more relevant to your question 'Where do we go from here?

This is my opinion of the next two years:

Whilst good valid points regarding the team tactics and organisation are being made throughout ToffeeWeb, regarding the debacle. . . in my opinion, most are missing a critical point.

Silva was given a 3-year contract and it is important he sees it out. The 3 years, in my opinion, is significant, in that, at the end of 3 years, progress will be assessed, not only in the case of Silva, who may have set a self target to progress or move on. But, Brands will also assessing how the Everton Project is going and so will Moshiri.

In the case of Brands, who has recognisable ability, will he see a better future else where? and I think we all will agree he will have plenty of offers. In the case of Moshiri he will also be assessing progress and making a decision whether progress is fulfilling his expectations and where he decided to commit money for investment in a new Stadium.

In the context of this 3-year horizon Silva is the only show in town, and I doubt either Brands or Moshiri will want to prolong the horizon, with a new manager. The problem is that there is an element within Everton, who do not care about any horizon as long as they are getting their money. But, the clock is running and Silva, Moshiri and Brands may have limits to there commitment to the Everton project.

The whole club needs to be singing off the same hymn sheet and needs to be progressing this season, because next season, they need to be there or thereabouts as far as the three gentlemen mentioned will be concerned. The rest could be left to their mediocrity, you can only flog a dead horse for so long.

A good start would be to make sure the team playing is well prepared and fit, which wasn't the case against Aston Villa and Bournemouth, whatever the organisation or tactics.

These games were against moderate opposition who are no high flyers. But If Everton can find 1 or 2 players who don't need a second chance to put the ball away, Everton can solve the other problems in the team.

"To be jealous is to admit that you are aware that they even exist. I never read about them whether they win or lose. To Evertonians, they should remain a nonentity."

Perfect. Can we please make this enforced TW policy, to be followed by all posters and contributors? That would make me very happy.

I can't stand them. I can stand hearing about them. I can't stand reading about them. But, most of all, I can't stand reading about them on my own fucking website!!!!

Lookman has played eleven minutes since his move to Leipzig.
And it's all our fault, apparently.

Gana though. Wow! A Rolls-Royce in the middle. Simply irreplaceable and not Everton's fault. Lukaku on the other hand, three years on. Unforgivable that.

As for Liverpool, we can't ignore them because they are so close, but we should focus on ourselves.

Cos my therapist tells me I should just accept that the world has changed since I was a lad, that they have won a lot more trophies in recent decades and now have an annual revenue that is more than double ours. (𧹿m compared with 𧵵m in 2017-18, I believe.)

Having said that, I do believe we can take six points off them this season. It does help though (as Bobby @28 pointed out) if Blues stop talking so much about luck and stop approaching a derby as if it were a trip to the dentist.

Darren, I disagree with writing off all those managers as duds. But that's another discussion.

Right now, I look on this set of players and I see a team that is mercurial but could go all the way in a cup — more likely the FA Cup after they've had more time together. And the older ones among you know how well a good FA Cup run can change the mood for the better among Evertonians.

I think we need a bit more speed at the back. More leadership down the spine, more drive down the middle and more goals up-front. It's all fairly obvious.

How we achieve that, I don't know. I would though be tempted to give Gibson, Davies and more of the youth team a bit of a go as we have thrown a lot of money at these weaknesses with very poor return.

For the time being I would stick with the manager, giving him the benefit of the doubt that the obvious set-piece fatalities and be sorted out. I mean when we have the ball, on the whole, we look very useful and on our day, at home, we seem to be able to give anyone a game and usually come out top.

That's my two-pence worth.

Nobody is perfect, however, and Brands's failure to bring in a centre back this summer is a massive error in my opinion. We obviously wanted Zouma but Brands should have had a Plan B, Plan C and Plan D in case that didn't pan out. To be sniffing around Smalling and/or Rojo on deadline day smacked of desperation and then we ended up with nothing.

In Kean and Iwobi, one hopes we've taken a step forward but in losing Gueye and Zouma we've taken two backwards and isn't that just typical of Everton?!

Brands and Silva are developing a talented young squad, but if Silva can't get the right tactics and selection in place away from home, then it will be academic.

Very kind words. Thank you.

You have been around long enough to know how much we all care.

We all react differently to setbacks. Some suffer in silence. Some analyse where it all went wrong... and some of us just scream the house down and demand answers from everyone, from the chairman to the tea lady.

To me, it's really a matter of trying to have perspective and avoid too much disappointment, to 'keep sane'. For example, after the Mordor Derby last season, I had to tell myself to get a grip, otherwise a weekend away with my wife would have been spoilt by my sulking.

It's also useful to recall that, despite their momentum, a lot of their supporters were calling for their manager's head two years ago, were asking for their current main scorer to be dropped early last season, and were continually frustrated by their weak defence until they signed a top keeper and centre-half. Similarly, things can change rapidly for us, so long as we 'keep calm and carry on'. After all, what else can we do? If we don't manage our own expectations, it's a recipe for angst, and there's been too much of that.

Good post and always I enjoy your views on EFC and agree with a lot. You love the club and that always comes across in your writing.

Make our hatred into fuel.

"I can't stand them. I can stand hearing about them. I can't stand reading about them. But, most of all, I can't stand reading about them on my own fucking website!!!!"

A sentiment I can agree with. Far too much reference to them on TW by some for my liking by some.

But then, why as editor did you a couple of weeks back put up a lead post entitled Graham Souness and more, move 60-odd posts from another unrelated thread that had died a death a couple of days earlier, to fan the flames and invite inevitable wrath of a much loathed 'poo player?

Just sayin' like.

I guess, despite my personal bias and convictions, that I do try to respect the drift of posts and articles submitted by our readers. The Souness posts were 'contaminating' another thread and my inclination was to just delete them, albeit a day or so later when I finally got to them. But clearly, though, there was a lot of 'interest' in this topic from our posters, so that would have been somewhat draconian.

However, a very good piece by Adam McCulloch was there, waiting to be published. I hated the topic, to be honest, but I read it and had to admit the piece was extremely well-written by Adam; I had no option but to publish it. It was then merely a question of good housekeeping for me to find a new home for the 60-odd problematic Souness posts, relocating them to that thread.

I was so far behind in reviewing comments at that point, I had no idea of the lull in interest, nor the different direction that resulted.

I saw a few posts before we played Bournemouth saying, 'we should beat these.' Well sorry, but no team has a god given right to beat any other team in the Premier league on any given day. Norwich beating Man City? I rest my case.
Just to bring a little hope or light, just try to remember where Liverpool where when Klopp came along. They were a mid table club under 'Brenda' and it has taken Klopp 4 seasons to get them anywhere near the top of the table. God knows, they have also had the luck of the devil himself in games, to get there. ( Apologies to Mike #87 for going there about those who shall not be mentioned)

Man City, despite money, have taken the genius that is Pep to get them where they are. And they have a bottomless pit of money.
With regard to what we should expect from our club To put things in perspective, there are so many clubs with a long successful history, but who are now languishing in the Championship or lower. Some in huge financial difficulties. At least we are solvent. Perhaps our hopes are being confused with our expectations? I am not saying that where we are now is what we should be happy with. Not by any means. I want us to mixing it up with the top 4 or 6 each season and have a shot at
the FA cup. But to bring a club out of years of the doldrums and under-investment, does not happen overnight, especially given the mess that was left behind by some of Silva's predecessors. Like you, I really want Silva to succeed. I hate our club being on that merry-go-round of Managers. My view, when Silva was appointed, was to watch and wait with patience, to see if there was any improvement and development at our club. The advent of Mr Brands, in itself is progression. I see an improvement in the style of football and the quality of the individuals we now have on the pitch and the bench. Is it perfect? No. Is it moving in the right direction? Yes.
So, come on Darren. Maybe the positive begins with us the fans. If we are sending negative vibes, how does that help the players ?
Belief can be the difference.

I know this wasn't in your article, Darren but
As for those calling from 'Moanreen?' REALLY? WTF ?? the man has never developed ANY club he has been at, or ANY player he has had under his watch. He has bought success where ever he managed. He proved, beyond any doubt, at Man U, that if he is not given a bottomless pit of money and is able to attract 'finished product' top class players, he is useless. His arrogance knows no bounds yet his management skills do. Please, please, please, do not mention his name in connection with our club. You do us a huge injustice. There is a reason the man is still out of job. No clubs left for him to go to with the money he needs to buy success.