Everton lose both Opel Cup games

Michael, any idea why it's only 30 minutes each half, I know there are two games, but friendlies involve using many subs and/or different combinations of players so it can't be for fatigue reasons, surely not?

I think it's the norm for this kind of mini-tournament, Derek. Although I agree, with the amount of flotsam and jetsom (aka deadwood) in our squad, we could manage to play entirely separate teams for 90+ mins in both games, plus at least 3 subs each!

But rules is rules. And I assume Sevilla play Mainz at some point, so maybe for practical reasons, expecting fans to watch three successive full matches is a bit much.

I can't watch any of them as I'm at a posh wedding bash darn sarf, at the delightful Chenies Manor. Wedding favours are a little jar of homemade strawberry jam for each guest... very chic!

Line-up for the first game:

Everton (vs Sevilla): Pickford, Coleman, Holgate, Mina, Digne, Gomes, Delph, Walcott, Sigurdsson, Bernard, Calvert-Lewin.
Subs: Stekelenburg, Lössl, Gibson, McCarthy, Pennington, Davies, Broadhead, Schneiderlin, Mirallas, Connolly, Hornby, Gordon, Foulds.

Good team

I think Holgate and Mina could make an effective partnership. I'll be very interested to see how they get on

Is Niasse injured

Oooh the great Opel Cup - "Made to make your mouth water"

I personally hope we don't have to rely on Mina and Holgate as a partnership Tommy.
Holgate's just not good enough to be one of our centre backs IMO. Decent footballer but not a good defender.

The only good thing about that was that it was only 30 minutes per half. Desperately need a striker. And a Zouma. And Richarlison back.

Have we scored in any of our pre season games yet?

True Michael @ 8, it was pretty dire although in mitigation, Sevilla have been better than anyone we have played to date, as I said on the Live Forum DCL is a good lad and all that, and his effort can't be faulted but as long as his sphincter points towards his boots, he will never make a Prem Striker.

Just think, almost this time last season we'd scored 22 goals without reply, mind you they were Austrian Waiters!

Frank, it's just one goal from Coleman, strikers nil. Very worrying.

Clive (12), and a free kick from Joe Williams against the Swiss team?

If we've got 60 million to spend why are we contemplating another winger? We need at least 2 central strikers and a centre back.

Dave wasn't that against the Kenyan team? I hate saying but this preseason reminds me a lot of mourinhos last one at Man Utd.

Again with no Richarlison there were no goals, same as last season only Richarlison and Sigurdsson as regular goalscorers, Bernard,DCL and Walcott are not good enough by a long way. Even with Richarlison back he cant do it on his own, if we start the season with Bernard and DCL partnering Richarlison we will struggle to remain in 8th never mind challenging the top 6.

I know pre season is about getting fit for the new season, but this trend of lacking goals in this team, is still apparent in this team.

Marco and Marcel you have much work to do in the market and hopefully soon.

Didn't see the game, but reports indicate two worrying things:

DCL missed 2-3 chances, the boy does all of it right, but he simply can't score. He's not a finisher, and that's not good enough.

Holgate had a poor game. I'm hoping we stick with Mina, Keane, Holgate, and Gibbo in the back and save the money not spent on a CB, and spend it on a striker. Holgate needs to step it up and not make mistakes.

I feel like Bernard for an analogy is like a great calligrapher versus Charles Dickens. He has the skill to write beautifully but he doesn't produce any good stories. We are left like Oliver Twist asking for more.

Jamie, Holgate wasn't that bad but for the decision giving the Sevilla player an opportunity to go down. Other than that our shape isn't working again, we are creating hardly anything. Defensively looking compact though.

Jamie, agree 100% with you. It's only pre season and the games are fairly meaningless at the moment but we desperately need a forward because for all his plus points we just can't depend on DCL to score regularly.

At least DCL can't complain he hasn't had the chance to stake a claim to the striker position. He's just not good enough. He's big enough but he's not strong enough, fast enough or clinical enough. A striker is our No 1 priority without a doubt.

Brian@16,

I completely disagree with your statement saying Bernard isn't good enough. Whilst I fully agree he needs to add goals to his game, there is no doubting his ability. In my opinion, anyway.

Same with Sigurdsson but the other way around for me. Yes, he scores goals. . . but he needs to add a lot more creativity to his game as far as I am concerned.

Kieran (15), yes it was against the Kenyan team, I wasn't sure that's why I put the question mark, thanks for that KIeran.

Siggi is 30 next birthday. The chances of his suddenly adding more creativity to his game are pretty remote. If we want more creativity we will need to buy it.

What happens if Mainz beat Seville 1-0 and we beat Mainz 2-0? Do we win the cup?

Frank @24,

I fully agree with your comment. Or maybe play Bernard there and see how he goes? But I would like to see us buy a young, up-and-coming midfielder who is naturally creative. One for the future, if possible.

Dave

That seems logical but who knows maybe it will be decided by how many defensive clearances clear the boundary line of the nearest cricket field.

Annika 22

This time last year I was agreeing with you on a similar thread regarding Siggi but I changed my mind over the season. I realized he doesn't get a ton of assists but he often drops deeper and gets the assist for the assist as it were. He makes some nice clever passes that enable the wide men of CF to lay on the assist. Difficult to quantify but useful

Kieran @28,

No argument for me on that point, although I will need to watch more closely to fully appreciate the point you are making.

I just feel he was bought as an attacking midfielder who would create chances for us. To me, he has failed in the creative area. But, having read your post, maybe not as much as I had previously thought.

Hope people are starting to see what Delph brings to the team and what an absolute steal we made.

Now where's that centre forward we need.

At the moment we are weaker than we were last season. Gana will go and Zouma will not be released.

To improve we need to replace them two with equal or better.

To challenge for top 6 we need another forward who can get 10 assists and 10 goals minimum.

Loads of time to sort it , 12 days left in this window

no need to panic..

at all , don't even think about panicking

it wont do you any good, stay calm, I mean serene,

SERENITY NOW !, SERENITY NOW!

Brian @30,

I am not seeing it yet and I don't consider the deal in any way a steal. In fact, at the moment, I still think Man City mugged us by getting the amount we paid.

However, I sincerely hope he proves me 100% wrong. But I can't change my opinion based on 45 minutes against the mighty Wigan and an hour in this Opel thing.

Opps! Totally caught off the hop on this one here in Brazil.

Enjoyed a Saturday morning lie-in, leisurely broke my fast, walked the dawg and fired up the computer...only to find he game already done and dusted! Must have been a very early KO.

When does the Mainz game get under way?

Jay it's on now 0-0, I was on a poor stream so came off.

Cheers Dave - I'll try and find a stream.

This stream looks good, Dave.

Link

Wonderful! In the few minutes I've been watching, we spurned many a good opening and on the stroke of half time a simple long ball catches out the defence (was the forward offside?) and we had our pants taken down.

It's a simple problem really - we can't score, so the best we can hope for in a game is 0-0, but with Holgate and Mina we have at least one massive mistake per game nailed on, so we can't even get the goalless draw most of the time.

This pre season has been appalling. We look, appalling.

The defensive depth is absolutely non-existent. Baines is always injured. If, as Silva seems to, we are counting Holgate as a centre-back, that leaves Coleman as the only right-back at the football club. Our centre backs are Keane, Mina, and Holgate - that's it. All have their own problems. We desperately need to sign 2 more defenders or our season could be in jeopardy.

The midfield is looking... alright, but once again, very very slow with ageing players like Sigurdsson. Gomes hasn't set the world alight this pre-season. We've still got players like McCarthy on the books. If we sell Gueye however, we are f*cked.

Up front we are completely toothless. Calvert-Lewin should not be our number 9 going into the season - and I do not understand why we have not brought a new striker in yet. Hopefully the wings will look better with Richarlison returning, but Walcott and Bernard are just impotent.

Concerning times. Once again we're hoping for a deadline day miracle - if it does not arrive, I don't see us finishing above the likes of Wolves, Leicester, West Ham.

Walcott is a lost cause and I am concerned he seems part of the plans.

Bernard is never gonna be a goal threat, he is a useful sub player and competition for Siggy.

We are still waiting for DCL to develop his finishing.

The main concern is it appears that Silva is failing to address our main issues, signing players is not enough, our problems won't be resolved through signing anyone if the system employed, and the training and preparation, are not up to standard.

Until March, lest we forget, I guess 75% on here expected and wanted Silva gone. He managed to save himself with a solid end of the season (when all was lost), but if we struggle come August as we appear to be atm, then questions about Silva will dominate our pages and pubs once again.

Mark, 39, agree with what you say. The squad is unbalanced, but hopefully if we bring in Kean and Gbamin, it could look a lot better. Kean is an out and out striker with bags of potential, while Gbamin is CB or defensive mid. Selling clubs hang back to the last moment trying to screw the last pound out of the buyer.

Same old, same old. No punch and indecisive, but two weeks time v Palace, they must sharpen up.

I'm not sure of the style and set across these games but there seems to be no solid shape in the play.

Let's see what happens and we hope for better times in the next season, but a natural striker is a must buy, in my view.

Fran, 40, DCL won't developer his finishing. He is 22 and his finishing is going worse. With finishing you've either got it or you haven't and DCL hasn't.

Apparently we've scored to.make it 2-1 - but not that I'd know what happened, considering that the official Everton stream completely collapsed for 10-15 minutes. It's rank amateur stuff - and I've no doubt that these things won't be happening for the streams at Liverpool.

Clive #41 - yes, I've heard of those rumours too. Kean would be extremely exciting - seems to have a very good scoring record for his age. Like with Gbamin though, there's just no use getting excited until some reliable Everton journos are talking. Until Joyce, King, Kirkbride etc are dropping their names, speculation is sadly useless. But we can hope!

And as I type the Germans hammer a third goal home. Extremely, extremely poor. These were just beaten 5-0 by Seville...

Oh well, at least we're going to have the best stadium in the Championship soon

Jay (36), thanks I got that stream,just in time for their second goal, poor by the new goalie.

Everton must be the only team with players who look worse on Utube than better!!!

Tony Everan @31 -

You're correct. There's no reason to panic at all.

Sign Zaha.

Sign Kean.

Done. Maybe a CB but I think we'll pass and we may be in for a gunslinger season.

Everyone's had their chance now to show what they're capable of.
Silva will know exactly what's needed and I can see some transfers being completed in the next week and some being done in the last couple of days maybe even on the last day.

And here lies the problem. Everton have always been not bothered losing matches, it was only a friendly, we are just trying things out, we are just getting match fit. We will never amount to anything until that mentality changes and losing is outlawed. What are they doing in training? Just so very embarassing, even Wigan looked like they had more of an idea of how to play the game of football. No excuse for any of the friendly game performances the whole playing side of things is just second rate.

Defensively we are not tight or compact enough when we lose possession. Especially true when we have defenders and midfielders taking unnecessary risks, too many touches, too much time on the ball and too far apart.

They need to play quicker forward passes. Unless 3-0 up with 3 mins to go there is no excuse.

We have reverted to possession based play that failed us last season before we switched to a more counter attacking style with great wins against Chelsea and Man Utd.

Sorry but Schnides is no defensive screen and Holgate is always a mistake away from happening. Not the only two poor players but players that always fail to step up and deliver.

Forward. I'm a big fan of DCL but he has to hit the target. Whack the ball on target and stop with the deft touches that are never going to trouble a professional goalkeeper.

Creativity is poor. There is more often than not a 2 second delay before the final pass or cross is played and then cut out.

Lookman is a creative, fast, powerful forward who's not afraid to have a shot. Why can he not get a game a head of all but Richarlison and Siggy is beyond me. Oh yes, some idiot sold him.

Preseason is all about fitness, but sadly the skill, vision and ability is not so easy to train. IMO the 2 best youngsters Lookman and Vlassic have been sold and we are left with a worse team and a weaker, older squad than finished last season.

We need rabbits in the next 13 days, 3 excellent rabbits. Here's hopping.. .

I didn't even watch the Mainz game even though I could get the stream, I 'd seen enough in the first game against Sevilla to realise we are like a Poodle/Chihuahua cross with rubber teeth.

There was little to encourage any further viewing being almost devoid of any attacking ideas, and of the rare chances that were produced DCL managed to fluff his lines again.

I am still not totally convinced by Silva, he watches the game from the sidelines, can evidently see what is needed but perseveres with the same tactics for the next game, as he did for the most part last season. Even subs are either like for like, when change is being cried out for, or left too late to have any effect.

Look folks this is Everton. They ain't getting relegated and they ain't pulling up any trees in the league. We'll finish the season strongly in May to complete a hattrick of 8th place acheivements.

It is not even August yet and people are lining up to predict where we'll finish next May! Time for a break from TW until something significant actually happens.

I like Calvert Lewin but he's an absolute garbage striker, get rid as soon as possible. I fear the season ahead if he's our main striker. I'd rather have Stuart Barlow.

Should have joined Mike Kendrick #2 at the ‘posh wedding'
Hope this proves to Silva just how much we need a striker (not another bloody winger).

If l had my way (and my bird is Polish, so that doesn't happen) I'd be loaning out DCL so he can fill his boots in the Championship for a season.

This can happen if we sign Costa, Kean and Zaha. Haha

David

I'm not even sure DCL would fill his boots at Championship level to be honest with you.

We signed him from League One and I think it's really starting to tell now that he didn't make that natural progression from the Championship upwards.

He's nowhere near a top level striker I'm sorry.

We could sign any lad from League One and he'd work hard for you but putting the ball in the net as a Premier League centre forward is paramount and DCL just can't do that.

Well having seen some of both games in the opless cup fiasco I am starting to worry. The cry is in Brands we trust but so far all I have seen is loosing a young promising winger one of the best midfielders in the league and loaned out some younger players,brought in a backup keeper signed a player that played for us last season and brought in another midfielder who is supposed to be a backup.
The usual deadwood is still here and after 2 yrs without a decent goal scoring striker, all we seem to be doing is showing interest in strikers who are not for sale, or want to play in the European cups,and a young prodigy who will not be able to play this year even if we spent a large sum to get him
I understand some transfers may be difficult but the longer we leave it ( if what we are told we have money to spend ) we will get the usual excuse that it will take time to settle In. This to me also seems a poor preseason schedule. Throwing young players on in the second half of a game does nothing surely the manager has seen these players often enough in under 23 games and at F,F. to know there abilities.

Si #53,
"Time for a break from TW until something significant actually happens."

Something significant has already happened. We have looked absolutely dreadful in EVERY preseason game and it looks certain that we have lost Zouma and Gueye from last season.

As someone pointed out the season opens in 2 weeks which means even if we get a couple of players in they will not be ready for the start of the season.

We brought in Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku on the last day in Martinez's first season so it can be done successfully.

I take comfort from how we finished last season. That looked, for the most part, a tight and promising unit capable of beating top 6 sides and with some ease. No reason at all why that should have collapsed.

Let's stay steady. We are going to make signings. If, God forbid, we don't get in a striker then we must play Richarlison centrally; that seems to me to be the only serious option.

The last few friendlies have brought into focus what most of us already knew. However good his tracking back, and hold up play, DCL is not, and never will be, a Premier League striker.

Brands and Silva must be painfully aware of the need to bring in, at least, one striker who can get around 15 goals. If they don't we're in for another season of being beaten as soon as the other team score!

I was prepared to give DCL the benefit of the doubt re his potential.
I'm afraid he's used up his chances and we need a proven finisher, otherwise same old.
Missed most of the second half through stream malfunction. Probably best.
As I said in an earlier post, everything is revolving around one particular transfer and then everything will fall into place (hopefully).

Get rid of Holgate and loan out DCL. They are not premier League materials imo.

DCL only came back for training last week right?! Maybe let's not write him off yet, remember he was our striker when we ended the season strongly and beat some pretty decent teams along the way?

Pre-season has been grim and of course it's concerning, we look unable to create and yet pourous through the middle. Not a great combination. But it's only preseason. We were terrible last preseason but looked pretty handy in our first match out against a strong Wolves team.

It's a shame none of the youngsters has really stepped up and I do think we need more creativity but we won't start really learning about where we are till Palace(a).

I hope by the time we'll have a few new players though I wonder how long they will take to be match ready. The Kean signing sounds less certain than this morning and if that falls through and Leao goes to Milan then I don't know who the ST plan will be. I also think Gueye will be a massive loss that Gomes especially will feel.

Let's see what next two weeks bring.

Sam, always respect your input, but regarding DCL and some other posters have pointed out too, how many chances is he to be given?

It's all very well saying he's a nice lad and can't fault his effort, I have done myself on many occasions, but it should be realisation time for all of us. Being nice and working like a Trojan doesn't make you a good striker overnight, or ever, for that matter, if you don't have that timing and natural instinct, which DCL doesn't have, he isn't going to be ever what we desire for him.

On the other point you made Sam, personally liked the look of Broadhead and Gibson, but have to agree like in the past, these kids have the chance to impress in pre-season and more often than not fail to grasp the opportunity.

I said before I was skeptical of Silva, and still am very much, but I do have a lot more faith in our DoF/Transfer Guru, and trust him to come up trumps again before the Window slams shut.

Sam @64. DCL played (at least) a part in nearly all Evertons PL games last season (as a striker) and scored 6 goals. Do you honestly feel that any team (supposedly) with ambition should be leading the line with a non scoring striker?

I'm not concerned by the results in pre-season. After all, all that matters now is that the players get fit for the start of the season. The worrying thing for me is that the manager has come out and said we might need to sign up to 5 players! We are 14 days away from the start of the season! That suggests to me that we have no idea how we are going to line up against Palace.

I'm happy with the signings of Delph and Gomes. If we can get a striker in, and offload some deadwood, i'd be happy with that.

We will hopefully have our first choice players back against Palace - Pickford, Keane etc. They should all be fit also. But we are not going to improve on last season without a striker. I can't believe the season is almost upon us and we still haven't signed a striker, and the only players we seem to be seriously linked to are wingers!

I know it is only pre season, but I feel that we are playing the ball too slow through midfield. This was improved at the end of last season with schneiderlin playing very well. Gomes was released to us by barcelona because they felt that they were too slow in possession with him in the side.! Hopefully Bernard improves as he is giving the team nothing at the moment, nice touches at times but the final ball and delivery poor. DCL not nasty enough, too soft. Costa would be the answer for me.

So sad to see the team we all love struggling to find a striker that can add 15 goals - not 30 goals a season. It surely can't be that difficult, obviously there are no guarantee's, but it should of been sorted by now.

The pressure being put on DCL is unfair and it could ruin the lad, he's not mature enough to lead the line at Everton despite having been put in that position last season, he needs more time to develop.

Something is wrong if the management can't identify that, it smacks of gross incompetence and it's negatively affected are whole pre season run in. The chances of replacing Zouma and Gueye are looking remote as well, all in all pretty shambolic.

Colin, good point there regarding the too-slow build up, through midfield, but to be honest this not a recent problem, and has existed for some time. Opposing teams are not going to be taken by surprise, with a slow and generally predictable attack.

Most players can't be brought in when the buying club wants. The fact is that continental clubs in particular know that the PL is relatively awash with money, so they delay, rejecting offers until near to the end of the window, knowing that the buyers are getting desperate and may well offer more money. This is the case particularly with in demand players rather than players the seller wants to get rid of. I am assuming the players MB and MS want are the latter type and expect our signings to be last day or close to the end of the window.

Silva seemed to mention the fact that we didn't create chances in the first place. This would actually worry me almost as much as the fact there's no striker (good enough) to finish them off. Marco clearly wants new players in sharpish and the Gueye situation is dragging out. I'm not panicking yet but we need some positivity. It's all a bit same old same old right now.

Tosun must be scratching his head and wondering why he did not get as many constant first team starts as Lewin, you can bet with a regular run out, he would have banged more than Lewins six.

I cannot recall where Tosun got a regular run out for more than 60 mins and in successive games.

For all those myself included who like Lewins hold up play, he will never get ten plus goals a season.

Time to bring in someone who can find the back of the net, a striker is an absolute must.

Hi Danny [67] I have always wanted Everton to win every game they play, but like yourself I don't place too much emphasis on the results of friendly matches, alarm bells would be sounded for me, if points were at stake. I think that every fan is aware that we need a goalscorer, and I'm quite sure that Marcel Brands and Marco Silva are also aware of the problem.

So many names have been put forward by fans, but [A] the parent club has to agree to sell a player, and [B] the club wishing to buy him have to agree the transfer fee, but the most important person in any proposed deal is [C] the player himself, he needs to want to join the club pursuing him, to make a transfer possible.

We as fans play no part in these negotiations, and in the case of Everton's pursuit of players, it may well be that they have explored the possibility of signing some of the players, that fans on this site have considered ideal signings.

We have no option but trust in the management duo's ability, to secure the services of the players we need, I appreciate that this may sound simplistic but that's the way I view it.

Colin #68:

"Gomes was released to us by barcelona because they felt that they were too slow in possession with him in the side."
I track Barca closely and I have never heard this before. What's your source for this statement?

By all previous accounts, Barca was willing to let Gomes go because he had lost the confidence of his teammates and the fans, and he couldn't handle that pressure -- he'd gone into a shell. If you have contrary information, I'd very much like to know what it's based on.

As for Costa, he scored four goals last night against Real Madrid, and I highly doubt he's in our reach at this point.

Be careful John#74, you are in danger of expressing too much common sense.

Trevor 69 “it can't be that difficult to find a striker who will guarantee 20 goals a season”.

I'd say, out of pure speculation, there are possibly only around 20 players on the planet who could guarantee this.

Believe it or not, it probably is difficult.

Clive #71 is spot on. Given the number of variables at play most deals will be done, as usual, in the couple of days before the window closes. This applies to most PL clubs not just Everton.
To date we have signed three - and released/sold/loaned out a bigger batch. These numbers look the same as the majority of PL clubs.

Preseason is just preseason, it doesn't mean anything.
But let's hope things do improve when the season starts

Clearly Brands and Silva rate DCL as they have played him n front of Tosun and the experiment as Richarlison as a central striker failed. I suspect that is because he is mobile, strong in the air and does as he is told. It's his first game back after an extended break so let's all slag him him off. I personally thought he ended last season well and showed aggression and touch that allowed others to benefit. It is only pre -season FFS.

Hi Mike [76] I believe that some poster's miss the three important words [IN MY OPINION] when they submit their comments, they leave themselves wide open to criticism, when they express an [opinion] as a matter of fact. While I know a little of British football I have no knowledge of continental football, and to tell the truth I've never heard of some of the players that Everton are being linked with. I hope life's treating you kindly over there in Chicago.

Hi Peter [77] it may surprise you to learn that contrary to possessing 'common sense', some people regard me as a bit of a dinosaur, and in some quarters I'm known as Johnny McFossil. I had another fall last week, [not too steady on my feet], but I hope to see you at the Excelsior on the 17th of August, where I can bore you with some of my so called wisdom.

@74 John McFarland Snr. thank you for a measured post. Let the people in charge do the worrying. On the basis of last seasons recruitment they have a few clues. It's a conditioning weekend in Germany. I hope all travelling Toffees are having a laugh and enjoying some decent beer.
I remember going to Roda JC pre-season about 15 years ago maybe longer. Knew it was just a bevvie trip. Rooney was about the only possible interest on the playing side. Guess what??
He didn't play and the beer in the stadium was non-alcoholic Amstel!!! But so what!!? Left the ground with about 800 travelling Blues and drank in the local town square all night.
The travelling and the socialising with fellow Blues is one of the pleasures of life!

Kevin@78 ;
A 15 goals a season striker rather than a 30 goals a season striker is what we need, much easier and cheaper to find. Surely even Everton can do that.

You misunderstood my post. We aren't capable of attracting a 30 goals a season player.

Mike Gaynes #76

I too heard what Colin has said about there being a feeling at Barca that Gomes was slow to move possession on. It was referred to by at least two separate sports journalists based between UK and Spain, one being Spanish-Irishman Miguel Delaney. I know you like to think yourself an authority on FC Barcelona but it's possible you may have missed one or two things.

Silva in my opinion does not want Gueye to leave and will be working hard to get him to stay.

Silva does need back up for the right back position, since there is none and a back up Centre Back for Mina. I do think he would be keen on Gbamin, since he provides back up to the Centre Back position and more of a supporting attacking option in midfield. Delph is more a Lookman position prospect and competition for Walcott.

All of this would prevent the midfield being overrun and add support better interplay in the final third. This leaves the problem of finishing and taking chances, both of which Everton are below par at.

There is no doubt that players will have to improve on last year. Tosun, Niasse and Morillas are still with us and it is obvious it would take a miracle for them to step up. Bernard, Calvin -Lewin and Richarlison could improve.

Everton need someone who can score 20 plus goals in a season and play within the Silva system. Everton also need goals from other positions.

It's going to be a difficult two weeks.

Trevor#85.
A player to score 15 goals (or thereabouts) a season isn't easy OR cheap.
Last season Hazard scored 16, Kane and Sterling both scored 17, Pogba and Lacaztte scored 13 each. Don't think any of those players would come cheap!
Buying from outside the premiership is always a gamble (for goals) unless you spend big money!
By the way our own main scorers last season with 13 each: Gilfi-£45m, Richi-£50m.

Derek@64 and Joe@65

It's not ideal to have DCL leading the line. He's not clinical (yet) and obviously every ambitious club would prefer to have a striker that will put chances away.

But he does seem (or seemed to at the end of last season) fit the team very well. And if the team is winning I don't care too much how many the striker is scoring.

Yes, I'd like someone who can do what he does but put more chances away. But if we can't get that then let's at least appreciate that his work may facilitate the success of the team even when not scoring. Last time we got 4th Marcus Bent scores about 7 goals all year! Wouldn't we all take that again?

I'd be a lot more open to the suggestion that "it's only pre-season" and we should stop stressing if it wasn't for the fact that our manager has pretty much agreed with the doomsters after today's games and said that we need to sign five players between now and our first PL match in less than a fortnight.

To quote marco: "we need some important players to sign, you are talking about five players in 12 days.

“It is too many and, of course, I would prefer to be with all of them in our squad at this moment but we don't have that and we are preparing for the first game."

I'm not sure if I'm pleased that the manager is reacting in the same way as most of the fans are, or if I'm worried because he seems as desperate as we do.

We are apparently now "in talks" with Moise Kean - so one of Silva's 5 may actually be on the way.

The only comfort I get from this is that Marco Silva is talking about five players. Would he say such a number unless he was reasonably confident of getting at least three or four over the line.

Getting the Kean transfer over the line is going to be very difficult without us accepting a buyback clause which is a shame because the lad looks like he has the lot!
Brands will have to work hard to make this one happen!

Just my luck, the last 4 weeks in Spain a bar had all the friendlies involving Spanish vs English teams, and the moment I nip over to Lisbon for a weekend I miss getting the chance to see us!!

DCL has been given enough chances.
He's not exactly a youngster anymore!
We need a proven goal scorer.
Although the Opel Cup was a run out, we were pathetic.
Unless we get a proven goal scorer in, I despair for next season.
Panic buys at the close of the window!
I do trust in M&M but the silence is deafening.
Some positive news please.
Today was an embarrassment.

Brian #93, as has been pointed out on other threads, a buy-back clause means nothing if the player doesn't want to be bought back.

Hi Matt [84] to begin with, you are probably aware that you share your name with an ex Everton centre half [Matt Woods], who on leaving the 'Blues,' he and another ex Everton player, goalkeeper [Harry Leyland], played in the 1960 FA Cup Final. While I have the misfortune to share my name with John McFarlane who played 2 League games for Liverpool early in the 20th century..

I'm afraid that my only foreign excursion was the Cup Winners Final in Rotterdam, although I did go to the Fairs Cup game against Manchester United at Old Trafford in January 1965.

Yes, the Moise Kean transfer is looking a bit more likely now, but I don't want us to develop him just for Juve to buy him back on the cheap. I don't want us to be obligated to them if he comes good after year 2. Then, whats the point in it ?

DCL flanked by Zaha and Richarlison could be a lethal front 3. I know DCL needs to be far more clinical but he is workaholic in his quest to produce for the team.

This workrate hands possession and opportunities to his attacking teammates and can make them look good stats wise, to his detriment.

One thing I am sure about is that DCL wont give up fighting to prove himself as our no9. This fighting spirit means I will not give up on the lad, he is still young enough to get better.

To match Everton's ambition he needs to deliver fast or he will be sidelined, especially if someone like Moise Kean or Malcom come in.

In a nutshell DCL needs to start the new season on fire or suffer long spells on the sidelines.

Yes, the Moise Kean transfer is looking a bit more likely now, but I don't want us to develop him just for Juve to buy him back on the cheap. I don't want us to be obligated to them if he comes good after year 2. Then, whats the point in it ?

DCL flanked by Zaha and Richarlison could be a lethal front 3. I know DCL needs to be far more clinical but he is workaholic in his quest to produce for the team.

This workrate hands possession and opportunities to his attacking teammates and can make them look good stats wise, to his detriment.

One thing I am sure about is that DCL wont give up fighting to prove himself as our no9. This fighting spirit means I will not give up on the lad, he is still young enough to get better.

To match Everton's ambition he needs to deliver fast or he will be sidelined, especially if someone like Moise Kean or Malcom come in.

In a nutshell DCL needs to start the new season on fire or suffer long spells on the sidelines.

Jim #86, I'm no expert on Barca, just a longtime (if casual) follower since about 1970. I didn't deride Colin's statement, I just asked him to source and support it. You have done so. I know of Delaney, read his stuff and consider him highly credible. I never saw that particular comment on Gomes, but if you say it came from Delaney, that's good enough for me.

John #82, always a pleasure to hear from you and read your posts. I'm sorry to hear about your recent fall... hope you weren't injured and you're feeling better. My only regret from my last trip there, except for Picks' gaffe was not getting enough time to chat with you in the noisy Midland. I hope to make up for that on my next trip over. (PS... I haven't lived in my beloved hometown of Chicago in more than 30 years... I'm a beach bum in Oregon these days.)

Brian #88 and Kevin #78, spot on. As I've said before, the recurring "no striker yet?" comments here sound to me like a little kid in the back seat asking Daddy, "Are we there yet?"

Jerome #87, Holgate played all last season at right back, and played it well. He's clearly the backup for Seamus.

John #80, the "it's only pre-seasin" line gets trotted out every year and by seasons end it's the "well we didn't have a good pre-season" line.

Folks, the Moise Kean news comes from a very credible source, the Juventus English-language fan site:

https://www.juvefc.com/everton-in-advanced-talks-for-moise-kean/

Not a done deal, but it appears we're in the lead.

I like DCL and I am ever the optimist. I believe he just needs a bit of luck to go his way and he will start banging them in.

He is clinical in the training clips we saw last year. Just seems to be snatching at things during a game. Once one goes in I think we might start to see him score more frequently.

One of the things that has slipped under the radar is our assistant coach loss.

Sousa left and has been replaced by Boa Morte. I remember when Harvey and Kendall split and we were never the same again.

I sincerely hope this is not the case but I was expecting a lot more this preseason due to the way we finished last season and Silva has had a year in the hot seat.

Tommy much as I love the kid and his attitude he has never been a prolific scorer. He is a converted MF player whose history does not indicate a good scoring rate.

Some have argued it took Sharpy a while to settle and we cant argue with the lads workrate and attitude but he does lack that killer touch that all top goalscorers have.

Brian@88;
If you bothered to look at the top scorers in the premiership last season, you will notice there are quite a few players who got into double figures that we could persue for about £40 million who would give us a better goal return than what we have at the club now, I'm sure the same applies across Europe. Nothing in football is cheap these days only an idiot would think that but there are cheaper options.

No one is suggesting buying good players is easy either, that's why we are paying managers millions of pounds to get on with the job. Or are you suggesting thier all above criticism ?

Hi again Mike [100] I was under the impression that you were a resident of Chicago, a 'beach bum' sounds more exotic. I wasn't seriously injured, just shaken up a little, the para-medics gave me the OK apart from my sugar levels being high and my blood pressure low. Maybe our next encounter will be a little less hectic.

Mike, that link merely quotes Sky as being their source. Probably something in it all the same.

Eric#96.
As has been pointed out incorrectly in some cases.
In some buyback clauses the player has no choice in the matter believe it or not, as the conditions are written into the contract for the sale in the first place.
In short, in some sales with a buyback clause the player would have to agree to the clause for the sale to go through.

Let's make the games 15 minutes each half. Gives us a chance to win. Two weeks till the misery starts. Kept away from the whiskey in the globe for two months. Felt calm all summer!

It will take 6 to 10 games for new signings to settle in. End of September we will be mid table. Does anyone know when the season starts at Everton? Get a move on please!!!

Trevor#106.
I did bother to look mate and I doubt very much we'd get anyone who would score more than Gilfi or Richi for £40m.
You didn't originally say "double figures" you said 15 goals a season.

Brian #109, slavery was abolished with Bosman and I don't beleive any such contracts you mention could be enforced.

Never mind the reluctant player not putting any effort in.

John #107, you must be an extremely mellow chap if you can have low blood pressure when watching us play. It makes my blood boil at times!

Brian look again, there are better players out there. Even double figures is better than 5.

Eric#112.
Eric the player being transferred agrees to the buyback clause (by choice) before the transfer (or not in which case the transfer doesn't happen) and signs a contract with the buyback clause included in it. Below is a snippet from a recent "law in sport" piece.

Should a buy-back provision be triggered, there is usually a contractual obligation to enforce the contract and transfer the player accordingly

And another:

No other club except the selling club can pay the fee agreed while negotiating and in maximum cases, the player would have to go back to the parent club when they call for him. The player does not have a say in it and is powerless.

Shane #108, yep, correct... but I've always suspected that site's editors have a pipeline to the club itself. It's rare that they post something that doesn't turn out to be true.

I do hope there's something to it... a 19-year-old is always a gamble, but this kid is electric. I saw him on tape-delay a couple of months ago in the game where he was racially abused, and then again the following week where he scored against Milan to clinch the Serie A title. Major talent.

Brian #115, good luck in getting a player to play for a team he has been 'forced' to go back to against his will.

Ian #110, it didn't take either of last year's top signings "6 to 10 games... to settle in." Richarlison and Digne were brilliant right out of the gate. Richi scored three goals in the first two games.

It did take Bernard a little longer, and of course Mina and Gomes were hurt coming in, but anybody we sign from our current target list will have been training and playing preseason games with their current club. Should be ready from Day 1.

Hi Eric [113] my 'young lady,' [if anyone can be young approaching 79], wouldn't describe me as mellow, but when you reach the age of 81 you come to the realisation that football, although an important part of your life. is however just that, a 'part' of your life.

There are more important things, and after 71 years of watching Everton I've experienced relegation, promotion, FA Cup Final victories and defeats, League Championships, and I view football as an escape from the trials and tribulations that life throws at me, I'm no longer as ecstatic in victory, or as demoralised in defeat as I used to be.

Everton may lose a game, but someone in a crowd of 40,000 is going home to seriously bad news, I would imagine that their outlook may well change, and football would rank low in their priorities. I've learned to accept that for every winner there's a loser, where in my youth an Everton defeat would spoil my weekend,

I still attend games, as a matter of fact my season ticket arrived this morning, and I'm looking forward to the season and trust that the younger supporters can enjoy the sport of football, and taste the success that I have in my time of watching Everton.

Apologies if this post sounds like a sermon, it's just that I have learned to put my love of Everton in it's rightful place in my life. I know you were being flippant and meant your post to be lighthearted.

Brian #115, what I can fund from a Lawinsport article is "the original selling club should be able to enforce the buy-backclause so long as it can agree personal terms with the player and that the player wishes to re-join the club"

John #119, you sound like you've got your life well sorted.

Respect.

From a young whippersnapper who's just made 60!!

Jay Harris (59), which of those events were you so surprised by that they've got you really agitated?
We haven't lost Zouma as we never really had him and it was always a likely outcome from the Chelsea transfer ban. Similar for Gana. These eventualities should have been part of Brands and Silva's planning, and I believe they were.
As far as I am concerned we are nowhere near the finished article in terms of personnel or melding, so I'm not particularly bothered about current form.
If the transfer window closes and we are without Kurt and Gana and no reasonable replacements have been brought in then I will start to get agitated. If our form doesn't quickly improve once the whole squad (holidayers and new recruits included) is assembled then I will start to worry.
Silva has admitted it's not an ideal situation at this point in time, which I think we'd all agree with, but it was fairly predictable and I am not really surprised about how things stand. It is definitely far too early to say it is disastrous or unrecoverable.
So I'm happy to see how the next couple of weeks pan out and still hoping for some truly significant happenings before and even shortly after the season starts.

Notice Silva post match saying the kids are a bag of shite and none of them will be in a he first team this year. I remember this joker complaining about Watfords signings prior to quitting.

Not the results Silva would have wanted but we're a step closer to being ready for Palace. Fitness now, results when they matter.

If we don't get Keen I am sure they must have others in mind. It's obviously a tough market if we're having to bring them in so late. We have no idea what's going on in the background and can only hope that Brands is calmly getting the pieces into place.

He's decided to let me do the panicking.

If he isn't pulling those Machiavellian strings - then I don't want to even think about the consequences.

I will not remove my royal blue tinted glasses just yet.

Kieran@123, what did the joker say mate? Get me some better players, and I will get you higher up the table, otherwise we are kidding the fans, some of who will blame me?

#97 John McFarlane Snr
Firstly apologies John for spelling your name wrong!!
I had just started secondary school and a teacher called Miss Berry who was originally from Blackburn informed me of the footballer Matt Woods. Her aquaintance being he played for them before we signed him.
I did already know as my father had told me. Indeed my dad is of a similar vintage as yourself hitting 80 this year. He played for the County on County Rd in the 60s when they had by all accounts a formidable Liverpool Sunday Premier League side.
Well if your only forage abroad to watch the Blues was to witness winning the ECWC in Rotterdam... Well that's the pinnacle so far!!! What a team that was!! I was at every home tie including Andy Gray's hat trick and the greatest ever night at the Old Lady when we destroyed the Bavarians. At 13 I was deemed to young by the powers that be to attend the final!!
Magic to hear you are still going the match, hopefully we can pull together in the next couple of weeks and kick on for a great season.

Hi Matt [126] I'm afraid you've put 'the 'horse before the cart' Matt left Everton to join Blackburn Rovers. The eighties team was tremendous, happy memories indeed. Yes, I'll be in my customary seat in the Park End with my Grandson,

Hi again Matt [126] that post should have read 'the cart before the horse,' I only got up to go to the loo, and was still half asleep.

While I agree that pre-season results don't matter in the grand scheme of things, I would argue that winning does tend to create a positive attitude, and confidence which is a major factor in getting players to perform at their best.

For far too long we have lacked that killer instinct when playing teams, and even in the games we have won, it has rarely been by more than a goal or maybe two.

Mike#100

I would have thought so regarding Holgate, but in the Echo Silva thinks he needs back up in the right back position and cosidered playing Colman a risk in pre season. Apparently Baines is injured and having to play Digne was considered a risk also.

Jerome #130, you're right -- I should have used the word "currently" regarding Holgate.

In my opinion, Silva has little confidence in Mason and probably has no long-term plans for him. I base that purely on how he treated the player last season -- five starts, then complete oblivion, banished to the stands until his loan in January.

But if the season starts in two weeks with no new RB signed, Holgate's gotta be Seamus' deputy. There's no alternative except Cuco.

There's a jarring thought. Couldn't be Cuco, could it?

...and Mirallas. 🤔

Mike#131

See where you are coming from. Makes me wonder why Kenny was loaned out and Robinson sold. I thought they both had potential that will not be easily found in the next two weeks. Had forgot about Cuco are beloved out of position defender.

Mike#131

See where you are coming from. Makes me wonder why Kenny was loaned out and Robinson sold. I thought they both had potential that will not be easily found in the next two weeks, unlLink

#127/128
Thanks for the correction John!

Just watching SSN, who seem to be making a point of us being beaten twice in the Opel Cup, where we have hardly had a mention all summer!

Reading the last few posts interesting regarding Holgate, I have expressed my chagrin regarding the Bargain Basement Giveaway with Robinson. Getting back to Holgate, I didn't think he did too badly and the penalty was a bit harsh. How can Baines be injured?

Moise Kean fee 36m

Juve will have the option to buy him back for 55m

So if he is a resounding success after Marco Silva and his team put their life and soul into improving him...

We are forced to sell him to Juve after a few years when he is 22-23 and at the beginning of his prime years, and make 19m

Alternatively,

If he fails to make the grade we lose up to 36m and Juve lose nothing.

The whole thing is a derivative of a loan deal, where we develop a player for Juventus. The backdrop will feel like a wasted effort for Marco and his team , and may even subconsciously dilute their enthusiasm to offer 100% to him from the off.

Also, the player always has his return to Juve at the back of his mind and does not commit to Everton with 100% heart and soul.

The whole development of his career can then be compromised because of these background issues that wont ever go away . Silently distracting attention and focus to Everton FC.

I am not comfortable with us entering deals using this model, I think it could harm us long term if fantastic young players we improve can be lost for the sake of 19m. We would be back to square one again with little or no gain for the club.

Sign great players, but not with these punitive buy back clauses, it is short sighted and detrimental to the club in the long term.

Buy Moise Kean outright or walk away.

Tony, have you had this officially confirmed or are you speculating? I would be surprised if Brands were to agree to a buy-back clause, especially for the amounts being talked about.

Having said that many on here only a day or two ago were insisting on a similar situation with Lookman. I am not in favour of it myself, but it is a double-edged sword, if he's a success we lose out on the player, but gain financially when he is at the end of his contract, if he's a flop we are stuffed that way too.

There again look at Lukaku he did well for us initially then thought he was more important than the Club, wanted to move on to better things, Oh and it's repeated itself again soon to moving on from Manure to Milan?

This lad should we get him may turn out to be another Lukaku, over to you Mr Brands, I trust you will do the best for us.

Honestly can't understand this buy-back clause for Kean, when you consider he has only got one year left on his current contract?

He must want to play for Juve, because otherwise he could just tell them he's going to leave for a very nominal fee next season, and they couldn't do very much about it.

If juventus want to insert a buy back clause in Kean's contract, then we should insert a clause that any buy back can only be instigated in the final year of his contract. So give him a ten year contract, insisting they pay the £55M buy back fee.

I think the authorities need to crack down on the buy-back clause. It can only serve to benefit the bigger clubs and hamstring everyone else. It's bad enough that clubs hoard talent and abuse the loan system.

What if the player is happy and doesn't want to return

Eric - if he's happy he stays.

It only comes into effect if he wants to return.

Jim that's not correct mate.

Tony Everan you make some good points there mate and I agree with all of them.
Some people believe that the player could refuse to go back to the selling club but they don't realize that the player is contractually obliged to return by the terms of the original transfer, should the original selling club activate the buyback.
When you look at the setup it's pretty much common sense that he'd have to go back.
The selling club sell the player for what is considered a lower fee than he's worth (think Deulofeu to us). The buying club are able to sign a player that they probably couldn't afford in a "normal" transfer.
The selling club do this in the knowledge that should the player set the world alight then they can get him back.
The buying club do it because they have a player they otherwise would have no chance of playing for them.
Now here's the common sense bit (incidentally backed up by lots of late night reading and research). If the player could refuse to go back then the selling club have sold him on the cheap and they could lose out big time.
The likes of Barcelona (Deulofeu and Mina) don't fuck up big time on these things and other big continental clubs have done the same.
If there was a chance the player could refuse to go back they simply wouldn't take the risk of selling him "cheap" in the first place.
The bit that some seem to be missing is that the player signs and agrees to the buyback at the time of the original transfer just as he signs and agrees to a contract on a "normal" transfer.
An example of this, if rumour is to be believed, is that Gerry very much wanted to stay with us when Barca activated the buyback clause but basically had no choice as he'd agreed to it when he signed for us. Ours was quite a shrewd one, some may say, in that Barca had to have him in the first team squad for a season when they bought him back and couldn't sell him immediately.

Not gonna bother arguing back and forth on this though. So believe what you want to believe. :-)

Tony #137 very well put. It's a guaranteed winner for them and all risk lies with us. As you say buy outright or walk away.

Eric - if he's happy he stays.

It only comes into effect if he wants to return.

Brian - ok, thanks. Don't know how I posted twice (wrongly).

No probs Jim.:-)

Finally people are waking up about DCL. This boy couldn't finish a Snickers.

One of the worst strikers we've had in years. He works hard (so does the cleaner) however his finishing is akin to Daniel Leon Cadamarteri (or DLC).

He struggles to score as much as Jermaine Beckford who wasn't good enough 8 years ago. Why the hype!?

We are toothless upfront and this DCL kid is part of the problem. All the gear and no idea.

Preseason usually mirrors our league campaign. Silva better wake up quick or he might be gone by Christmas.

Brian 144

Why would you claim to know about a deal of which you have no inside knowledge?

The player will obviously have to agree to a new contract. As if they know what they will be paying the player 2 or 3 years from now. Do you think he's going to go back on his old wages after scoring 35 goals a year for three seasons straight?

The Everton would have to accept the agreed offer. The player could absolutely refuse the transfer.

The same inept start as last pre-season. What a bunch of muppets we are. I bet the live stream didn't work either. I had better things to do.

Good to same the same MO kicks in before the season even starts. Not a single senior player in the squad has a good game but the usual suspects come on here to lay into the kids. Absolutely pathetic.

DCL isn't meant to be the starting striker but if Tosun is so abysmal as to not even make the team, then he has to play.

What worries me about these friendlies is that Walcott, Mirallas, and other deadwood are still there. And in the formers case, appears to have a role in the managers plans.

People going on about DCL, but he is far from our weakest link.

Woeful defensive positioning akin to the start of last season, static and predictable midfield play, and zero impact from the wings.

Silva is not developing the style of play he says he is.

Steve Brown, I don't think it's hammering the kids it's just being honest. The lad is wearing the Nr 9 shirt for a club who next season wants to compete with the top 6. If he doesn't put the ball in the back of the net then questions will be asked just like they would of whoever is wearing the shirt. You are right no one played well and if they all continue to play badly then quite rightly questions will be asked about whether they should be starting.

I don't get your comment about DCL not meant to be a starting striker. He is an England u21 international who will turn 23 this season. So why shouldn't he be considered a starting striker?

Surely a player with one year left on his contract has all the power and won't sign a buyback clause with a set value as it would reduce the money he gets as he hasn't requested a transfer.

On the subject of Calvert-Lewin who has missed a few good chances of late, I recall a video of him, Rooney and Klaassen taking part in a bit of finishing practice at the training ground.

There were several set-ups including playing a one-two and shooting past dummie defenders. Rooney and Klaassen were both much more clinical than Calvert-Lewin. That was nearly two years ago and worryingly for Dominic, his finishing is still a work in progress.

As others have stated, if we have to rely on our wingers and number ten to get the bulk of our goals we will certainly not make the top six.

Phil#150.
Phil I've NEVER claimed to know about a deal I have no inside knowledge of I merely explained the principle of buyback clauses and how the player signs and agrees to it at the time of the transfer.
I don't claim to know the ins and outs of wages etc simply that the player signs and agrees to the buyback at the time of the transfer.
You say "The Everton would have to accept the agreed offer." I don't quite follow what you mean by that but if you mean the offer from the other club then Everton have already agreed the amount at the time of the original transfer.
Again I'm not going to get into a big to and fro argument with anyone but I must stress I DID NOT claim to know about this deal and I'd appreciate you not claiming I did mate, thanks.

It's worrying when you cannot win games at any time but generally pre-season are nothing to worry about. When the dust settles and all the squad are back for that first game, we shall see what we have to offer for real.

Yes, it doesn't look like much has changed at this stage, and I suppose on paper it hasn't, but Silva's job is on the line and so anything less than a decent start will bode badly for him.

The real disgrace is that we knew at least a season before he left Lukaku was moving around about 2016

Three years later and after receiving a load of cash from United for him here we are a couple of weeks from kick off still scrambling around for Lukaku's replacement

The last people we should be questioning are the youngsters. The people we should be questioning are the board and management

In Brands we trust my arse

Brian #144, provide some links to where you read the player is contractually obliged to return to his original club.

I was at the games yesterday and just a few notes from me.
1. Seamus was quite rusty starting off but improved a bit as it went along.
2. Holgate started off pretty well but seemed overconfident for one who hasn't played PL football for a while, which is probably why he made those costly mistakes.
3. Our midfield seemed to be bystanders in the Sevilla game with Sevilla dictating that area most of the game.
4. Disgusted at Mainz playing YNWA before our game. I was told this is a tradition of theirs. I wrote 2 complaints to the Club about this stupidity.. Tradition my rear end.
5. Digne is class but was fouled badly on 3 occasions. Hope he gets enough protection in the PL.
6. Spoke to a few Mainz fans re. Jean-Philippe Gbamin who said his energy would suit the PL but he is prone to costly errors... ie. 'Good fit'. No idea why he wasn't around yesterday.
7. Why did Sevilla dominate? Fitness was vastly superior as was their movement and teamwork and communication. They fought for every ball and were trying hard to impress. Obviously have some class players too and competition for places.. Quality squad. Really liked their nr. 10 who bossed the mauling of Mainz.. Think it was Ever Banega. Our lads were still on holidays...none more so than Tom Davies who strutted around like he was a peacock going for a Sunday stroll. Sevilla were also constantly changing the pace and the direction of play and had a big mix of ideas all about controlling the game. Long way for us to get near that level.

Overall, yes we need to add Quality but also an attitude and a fighting winning mentality which means taking games seriously even if it is a 'pointless' friendly. Oh yes one more thing.. The loyal fans reaction to YNWA was something I was hoping would spur on the team a bit but they seemed oblivious to that. Just a well paid job then boys eh?

Yes sir.
There you go Eric, there's a couple. I suggest you do your own further research as there are numerous other references and I'm sure you're just as able as I am to find them.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-buy-back-clause-and-how-does-it-work
Look particularly at the passage: No other club except the selling club can pay the fee agreed while negotiating and in maximum cases, the player would have to go back to the parent club when they call for him. The player does not have a say in it and is powerless.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=8cf6bfe1-8a78-4e5b-b84e-42bc012d6e3b

Think about it. If the clauses were unenforceable why would the selling club insist on one, and why would a buying club (us with regards to Kean) not want one?

Pretty soon the "its only pre-season" brigade can change their mantra to what other excuses are needed for losing and being sh*t.
Silva out, he hasn't got a clue and neither, it seems, has anyone else at the club.
The more we spend, the worse we seem to get.

It's a seller's market, especially as European clubs know that English players are over-priced. The buy-back clause is a crafty consequence of this. A good insurance policy for the seller. If he's a dud, they've made some money, if he's really good, they buy him back relatively cheaply.

By the way, we could spend more money buying him outright, then have a bigger club come along and buy him off us when he's a success. Or we could just build a good team that compels him to stay.

As in other walks of life at the moment, this isn't as simple as some people demand it to be!

Breaking news!

£55 million Everton bid for Zaha!

Where did you get that from Jim? Probably Sky Sports, does that include any players too, there has been talk of McCarthy and Bolasie also Tosun, surely not all 3 plus £55M.

I think it's an awful or for him, but he is a game changer, but not often enough for me, plus it doesn't make a lot of sense when it has been mooted several times that Arse is his desired destination, which also makes sense.

Londoner, probably supported them when growing up, still lives there etc, so it sounds like if he did come to us it would be just for the filthy lucre, do we need any more mercenaries on our wage bill?

Where was the news broken, Jim?

SKy news. No efc player involved/

I agree that the young players shouldn't take all the flak, I really can't see anything more than 7th/8th again though. Perhaps the players will wake up when it starts properly, but goals were an issue last season and I don't see any goal scorers joining the club!

There is FAR too much loyalty shown to bang average players at Everton and even accepting the new regime and it's a project waffle, I am not seeing hard-nosed and ruthless leadership yet!

Regarding a number of John McFarlane posts I respect your opinions and also realize that supporting Everton is a challenge. I also agree with your assessment that there is more to life than "Everton". I am also in the eighty plus age group so we have probably seen and experienced the same ups and downs that are part and parcel of being an Evertonian.

However I differ considerably in regards how I respond to Everton results. I HATE Everton losing just as much now as I did when I stood snotty nosed in the boys pen watching the likes of Oscar Hold trip over his own feet. I still want to win friendlies and any rubbish pre season game. I still manage to exasperate my ever loving wife by my idiotic rants when Pickford drops the ball. I still phone my adult kids to tell them just what I think of anyone connected with Liverpool Red in fact I almost cut off my daughter when her husband bought a "Red " car. Yes insane but I just love being an Evertonian and I still love ranting when we lose.

However I know that there are people in the world who are far worse off than this eighty year old and I do know that football is not always that important. John You are a fantastic Evertonian who is obviously far more sane than I am. My life lights up again come August when we play Watford. If we win I will be ecstatic. If we lose I will chase the cat out of the house and blame everybody even remotely connected to Everton. And once again my wife will say, "There are far more important things than Everton." She has said that for the last fifty plus years and I still respond "Name ONE". In fact it was part of our wedding vows that she would not talk to me for three days anytime after Everton lost.

I must admit that my wife allowed me to call our two sons John Everton and Andrew Goodison. Unfortunately she would not let me call our daughter Gladwys, but that was only because I wasn't sure how to spell it. Right now I am still annoyed after losing to those two stupid teams. I should be alright by the time we beat Watford. But what if we don't ?

149 Jason Broome - here here! At last some sense and reality spoken!

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John(#172); Magic!

Jason and Ian I am with you on the DCL front It's like flogging a dead horse playing him all the time hoping one day he will hit the back of the net, in fact if you put a dead horse in the 18 yard box and fired some crosses in there would be more chance of the ball hitting it's arse and going in the net. Sorry just not good enough if we want to move up.

Regardless of who we sign (or not) in the next ten days, one thing is certain. We have one of the easiest starts to the season that I can remember. If fact if you could pick the first dozen or so games you'd probably pick something similar. (Please no ‘every game is tough' comments or ‘you have to play everyone twice'. There are harder games than others and momentum and confidence only come from getting results.)

So no excuses from the management or players. If they want to make a serious stab at getting higher up the league this season, we need a strong start to get points on the board early and build confidence and momentum. Also no Europe so we have less games than the teams who finished above us.

No excuses for not signing players either. No club can get all their top targets, not even a Madrid, Barca or Juve. Every club needs a plan A, B, C, D etc to make sure they have the squad balance they want. If we're struggling to sign a decent striker, that tells me that Silva thinks DCL can do a job (I.e. presumably he doesn't think there are many available who are significantly better - something I highly doubt, but I'm not the manager.)

The signings so far have been good, not exceptional. So we'll wait to see what squad we have come the 8th August. I just hope a striker, CB and RB are added at the very least.

I'm still on the fence re Silva. Will see if there's marked improvement to come. An 8th place finish in his first season is still lower than Koemans 7th so al lot still to prove.

To my mind, we shall do well to swerve signing Zaha.He moaned all the time he was at Old Trafford and Moysey couldn't wait to get rid. A London Boy we can do without !

John Boon @ 172, good post there, and being 69, so a tad younger, have supported Everton for nearly 60 of those years, I am also of the I HATE Everton losing persuasion, whether it be a friendly a Cup tie or a bread and butter Premiership game.

I just wish that same mentality existed in the ranks of the players and Management, I am a strong believer in confidence and having a winning mentality SHOULD become second nature.

I can reluctantly accept defeat, and have mentioned on T W many a time, if we have been beaten by a) a superior team on the day, b) or been the recipient of bad luck or bad refereeing, but to lose without a whimper or any visible effort is unacceptable to me.

John Boon (#172)

That's a wonderful post. I may be 20 years younger than yourself, but I share every last one of your sentiments.

John #172, love your post.

Your wife sounds like a magnificent woman to not only put up with your Evertonian agony but to actually allow you to name your sons as you have.

And I've no doubt that John Everton Boon and Andrew Goodison Boon have grown up to be equally magnificent, befitting their weighty monikers.

Please post more often, sir.

Hi John, [172],

From one John to another, I think you know of, and have probably experienced, some of the worst things in life. The difference is that we react to Everton's wins or losses in different ways. I still feel the disappointment of defeat and the pleasure of victory, but the hurt of one and the ecstasy of the other are not as strong as they used to be.

I can appreciate how you feel, because I've been down that route. I take no pleasure out of a poor display, but I've come to the realisation that the players are not programmed, and even the best of them make mistakes, and it's the uncertainty that attracts us.

I go to the match with an open mind, because I have learned that 'anything can happen in a game of football', and to tell the truth with the expectancy lifted I find the games more enjoyable. People in the Park End, where I sit with my Grandson, sometimes give me queer looks if I praise the opposition for a good pass but, if you appreciate good football, it's an involuntary response.

John #159. You hit the nail on the head!. How is it possible, almost 2 years later, that we haven't replaced Lukaku & still don't have a Premier League quality striker? We're buying players for positions that we have ample cover, having sold Rooney, our highest scorer the previous season, without replacing him either. Doesn't inspire confidence and is a cause for concern, so close to the start of another season! Maybe Marco doesn't like strikers!

Kevin @162, thank you for that report. I really like your second point. I love Holgate being over confident, that is exactly what I want and expect from him. He is going to be a top player and if Everton sell him I expect no jury in the land to convict me of the consequences.

Dominic Calvert-Lewin is already a top player. There is some pure fucking shite on here about strikers, as if you are born with this natural ability to take chances. It is about confidence and not another fucking thing. Calvert-Lewin, when he gets a couple of goals, will be a star.

Confidence, belief, support. That is what makes a goal scorer. There have been a few, utterly cretinous, comments on here that Calvert-Lewin has a weak shot. Honest to God, how can any sane person believe that a young man can pass every demand, every stringent test that makes a footballer, with the shooting power of a small girl?

We have a star here but some believe that the ability to tap the ball into the net is some God-given 𧴜 million talent. It is about confidence. Not another thing. Calvert-Lewin has it all but that. He will get it.

John @172

Absolutely spot-on bollicking. I'm a bit younger than your good self, I've only been a regular match-going fan since the title winning season of 1969-70, a season ticket holder for most of the seasons since.

The word 'red' is not allowed in our house – only salmon pink. My daughters are not allowed boyfriends from the dark side which they have duly obliged being avid blues. After family and friends, Everton is the most important thing in my life.

Eric, I get it. Perhaps it is sad, maybe wrong... but I live quite near the sea and, having two prolapsed discs at the minute, I have been in some pain. However, I preferred to stand than sit on an empty seat dedicated to Liverpool FC. Yes, I know it is stupid... but there you go.

To one very rational, logical sane eighty plus Evertonian ie John (181) from another eighty plus, less sane Evertonian John (172) I must admit I admire your logical reasoning and willingness to even admire the opposition. However while I admire your open mind I do not envy it. I only admire the opposition when we are three goals ahead with two minutes to go

Being a very long time Blue, it is extremely challenging to remain calm cool and collected. I personally prefer to go from the extremes of delight and ecstasy when we win against any team. I can then spend the rest of the day pontificating about the delights of supporting the "Blue Enigmas " that is a team that leaves its supporters totally perplexed,confused and unsure about what to expect next.

Therefore when we lose I go to the other extreme and rant and rave and predict gloom and depression for the whole of society not just for Evertonians. I feel that is my way of handling the fine art of being a " Losing Blue". I do not let my displeasure affect those around me, except for the cat. Fortunately I have Blue children and grandchildren who actually agree with everything that I suffer. It is because of me that they are also biased "Red hating " blues. We really enjoy being angry together. Fortunately my wife, their mother and grandmother, is able to remain sane. She thinks we are all daft, bonkers and just not right in the head. She is absolutely right. Fortunately I am also able to laugh at myself and this is why.

Yesterday we were able to defy all aspects of common sense by actually losing twice in the same day. In my long life of watching Everton I have NEVER known of them playing two games in one day. Why not just play once with twenty four on each side. The whole idea is absurd but when it happens only Everton could manage to lose them both. At least this gave me something to laugh about, although it probably wasn't that amusing for those poor souls who actually went to the game. Did they have to pay twice ? I am smiling even as I write this. You HAVE to have a sense of humour to be an Evertonian. The other option is insanity or perhaps I should be more rational like my fellow blue John McFarlane who is far more sensible and practical than I will ever be. Cheers to you John.

Thanks Brian #163, I'll look into them, just got back from Lisbon andam knackered. The only source you quoted before, lawinsport, stated the exact opposite of what you claimed. i.e. the player has to be willing and agree terms.

Eric. Not gonna argue about it mate.

Briam, from what little I know about employment law, you can't force an employee to relocate against his will.

Look at what happened with Rangers players when they went bankrupt.

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Pre season, so what. I don't even bother to watch the pre season games anymore. They're just warm ups for fitness as much as anything else.

The RS have lost their last 3 and even Klippety said so what? As he said (and I hate to quote the prick), we'll be a different animal come the start of the season.

He makes a good point (the prick)

Hi John,[186] 'We are what we are', and I have graduated from what I was to what I am now, some take a little longer, and others never attain that level. I think the expression I'm looking for is, " Seen it, done it, and got the T-shirt."

I must admit that I still feel anger and frustration when things don't go quite right, but the overall emotion is one of bitter disappointment. I'm sure that your wife and family love you just the way you are, I fear that you are beyond redemption, and paying for 'Anger management sessions' would be wasted money.

Stay the way the you are John, because as I stated at the beginning of this post, 'We are what we are'.

Wow John ( the rational)

I would like to declare a truce We are obviously both true Blue Evertonians in that we are both sure that we are right about anything blue. You have matured to having a rational and sensible acceptance of where we have arrived at, while I am frustrated by the present not being like I have experienced in the past. Arguments rarely lead to sensible resolutions. I am prepared to go slightly off my rocker when we lose, while you can remain cool calm and collected. My wife actually agrees with you Would you be able to come to the divorce process ?

James (#191) your post lost me a bit, given its length.

For clarity, I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting you to again identify "the prick" you allude to.

Hi once again John, [193] a truce is only possible when there have been hostilities, I view our posts as civilised exchanges in a pleasant and humorous manner. I don't know where you live, but I would like to think that you could call in at the Excelsior next month. Oh by the way, congratulations on marrying a level headed well balanced, 'Young Lady' I too was fortunate in that respect.